Final Plea to the Informant

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The two in particular The two in particular sent to both TMZ and two local television stations in Tucson Correct. And that was put out there h they've traced the FBI traced it back. They know exactly internally where that came from, which was FBI generated. And they felt so compelled to not only kind of bitch slap, if you will, the ones who leaked it. But they they actually issued a out of the Phoenix office a press release from the FBI less than twenty four hours ago saying that they still believe a couple of these, the ones that Reuters had reported, like I said, to Reuters in Reuterss defeense, they were getting it from sources, but the sources had their own access to Gid And so I said, well, why is this? What happened here And I know you yesterday reported that you went back to your sources and you knew as a percipient witness that in fact, the FBI was taking it seriously. This came from the top of the FBI. I'll leave it at that. that's specifically There were mistakes that were made by FBI agents initially. You know how everybody was talking that it was the sheriff and everybody was laying blamed. Everybody blamed it on the sheriff Right. Well, apparently the sheriff was not the only one. local field office apparently had some missteps and they were course corrected quickly, but some of the people trying to protect their territory put the story of the what now has been a repudiated story out and then As we tape this, there is a plea that's being reported by NBC News that somebody is entering a pa or has entered a plea to a phony ransom note. they were there was a concerted effort try to basically cover the tracks this person pled. They knew the person was going to plea yesterday when they released this story to Reuters. They were that that does not take away from the fact that yes, in fact They are seriously taking the ones that you got and the ones that the local affiliate received as well. Okay, totally seriously and think they're real. I want to talk about two things with you One is, u, why they would say something like this. Somebody in the FBI would say something like that where they're not that they're not considering the notes when they really were and to what the screw ups were. So I want to talk about those two things. but let me just so Everybody understands what happened here. So we received the first ransom note along with two other with two television stations in Phoenix ransom note said Give us four million dollars And if you don't give it to us by the deadline, it goes to six million. And if you don't give it to us by that deadline, we'll kill Nancy Guthrie. then four days later They send a second note and we know it's the same person based on the emails and There are markers on it But it's the same person writes a second ransom note to one of the Tucson stations saying Nancy's dead and We didn't do it. She just died. and they never asked for any money They just said it. And the next day That's when Savannah said, We will pay you Just let us know how to get our mother back And the reason she said it that way was That second note didn't ask for a particular amount of ransom. It just said I think what happened was the kidnappers did this to get money and they thought, o, we can get a quick payday. and then she dies on them And they're thinkingedly And they're thinking of political hist or anything else, right? We're murderers now and they just went underground, never to be heard again. And that's why she made the pleice saying We will pay you The reason she didn't pay is She didn't know what they wanted at that point And they never got back. So we had always been told by the FBI, and we had numerous contacts with them. They had multiple people talking to our IT team all the time. I was talking to them They told us We believe Those ransom notes are real. And then we started getting this guy who was constantly contacting us saying I know who the kidnappers are, give me one bititcoin And will I will lead you to them Witers writers writers comes Look at the writers story which came out on Wednesday, seven one What do you say to yourself? Well' not what I was saying. Well, what I said to myself was I want to make sure maybe they're right. Maybe they've decided that It's it's it would have surprised me given all the communications we had. when I saw this Reuter story that said that the FBI believes those ransom notes as well as those demand letters we received are fake And when I saw that, I thought That's just not aligning with what I have been told but maybe Maybe they got this. I mean, I didn't discount it I contacted two people at the FBI. O of whom is involved in the investigation, another is an official And the official in particular said, look you know, I will tell you this on background that I'm It is more, we believe it is more likely than not That The two ransom notes are legitimate, are real We have less comfort believing that those demand letters, you know for the Bitcoin are real, but we haven't discounted that either person was very careful and it was really an interesting call because I really had to Press answer on this thing. So there was something going on in the FBI at the time, but this person was very clear, more likely than not that it was if you had I even talked about, what if it's like or a civil case, fif thousand one forty nine. Is the majority on the side of legitimacy? The answer is yes So I kept getting, yeah, we're absolutely looking at these, which is what I knew. But this person affirmed it, and so did the other person. Exactly. And so do so there's two ways to interpret thisiven And then And then the FBI came out later in the day and said, look, some of these notes are bogus. They called it extortion, but some of them were that areg are we are pursuing as possibly legitimate. So we know what the two are. They're the two we received in the Tson station Right. and that That FBI press release, we should probably show that or put it up on the screen That's the first time in, I don't know how long They have commented that directly on something like this in a while. And there's two interpretations, in fact By the time this drops, I'll probably have got the answer But one is somebody knew in the FBI about the plea that was happening today to somebody who basically had just done an extortion went off the reservation or what I was told yesterday, which was no, they wanted to the higher ups at the FBI wanted to make it clear that somebody had gotten out over their skis trying to protect themselves or CYA, and that's why they planned that story with wrers The official told me and because I even said Do you think Somebody actually told Reuters this And the answer I got back was, look There are a lot of people involved in this investigation and not everybody feels exactly the same way. It was kind of a weird comment because it was hedging it because if They because they clearly, you know, based on what I know and now based on what the FBI said they were clearly still looking at this as possible as as a real lead And that statement was where we've determined that it's And that's just not true So I guess I want to get to you now Two things One Why? did whyy do you think that there were people who said that incorrectly They viewed these ransom letters as fake Um And two, you mentioned that I screwed this case up. Let's go into both of those. But first, why do you think peopleople in the FBI told writers. that The ransom letters were fake becausecause they had there there was a miss is what I'm told in the original And second, there were two. waves, if you will, of letters and supposedly they missed which somebody else at the FBI subsequently picked up on. That was the fissure, so to speak between the two That's and so each So you've got a contingent who missed it, you've got some and we talked we hit on part of this apparently kind of unknowingly last week. You had identified the reason that you thought this most recent one was from the same person was the wallet address. and the wallet address, old one and new one was referenced Apparently they had they had done something. I know what it is. I when you just said that I Th think I know what it is, Mark. I think I know what it is So We can talk about this now because it's come out So I don't remember how long into the case maybe Three weeks, maybe a month. They were constantly calling us, talking to the IT team tryrying to figure out How to trace the Bitcoin address or how to trace the email we got, and they couldn't do it I got a call And they said, look, We are going to put some money in the Bitcoin to see if we can trace God, I think this is it to see if they could trace Um the, um, the the money back to the person who took it And they said Please Do not report that money is in the Bitcoin account. It's going to compromise the investigation And so I We didn't We didn't say anything, but we saw the money surface. It was only like two hundred and seventy, two hundred and eighty five dollars. I think they were just trying to trigger something And so we didn't say anything And then a couple of days later, One of the Tucson stations that also had the Bitcoin address published a story Money went into the Bitcoin address. And the FBI didn't want that known and called. someomebody at the FBI In fact, I was on the phone with two people I at the same time and And I said Well, this Tucson station just reported what you told me not to say. what happened and One of them said to the other Did that Tucson station also get the ransom note? And it's like Yeah. I mean, it was widely reported they did. So I think they forgot to call That seconds Tucson station and the second Tucson station blew their cover. on what they were trying to do And and internal it was a screw up and I never really thought of that again until you just said that. That was that was definitely a screw up. Well thats and that fits precisely with what I was told that there was an initial screw up They then figured it out And then that is where the Fissure happened. and that's precisely that fits exactly with what I was told that it was people trying to cover their territory and CYA on this. take it one step farurther because if in fact they had figured that out even quicker and had been able to reverse engineers, so to speak to the Bitcoin address, which they did once they put the money in are God knows if she would have passed if she did pass five days later. Well, I think it was earlier than five days later. I think it was I don't know. I mean, look, these demand letters we got that I have always had this nagging feeling might be real, that if you believe that person, it would have been on that Wednesday after the kidnapping on Sunday Whatever it was, it was before that Friday because that's when the second note came to the two son station saying Nancy was dead So It happened within days. And it happened directly in that timeline of The if you believe yet the The most recent one you have, whether there's supposedly a screen grab, there's supposedly an external driver, some other something that's stashed It was in real time and they are there is a lot of internal second and third guessing as to who dropped the ball when and why they why they didn't kind of tie up all the loose ends So it doesn't feel like everybody in the FBI clearly is not on board with what's going on here because if there are as you put it a couple of people who went off the reservation You know, this is not where they're all aligned They are not aligned. I mean, I know that for As close as one gets to a fact, And all you've got to do is take a look at how quickly that FBI press release came out after the Reuters story. All I know is when I saw the Reuters story, I said to myself, Harvey must be having a TIA because there is no way having dealt with it and knowing how much The amount of resources that was expended both by you internally and by them externally, that that made any sense whatsoever. If they thought that was a fraud, they're not going to run it to ground like they were doing in real time. Yeah, I mean, look, my sense was it wasn't true. But again, you know, a lot of times these cases take crazy twists and turns I've just seen things that are so illogical on their face and they turn out to be true that I thought, well, you know I had to pursue it and call. And even after calling the person involved in the investigation, I kind of felt like, well You know, I still need to go higher. And that's when I talked to this official and the official to me made it clear by saying, Look, it's more likely than not that it's legit I did not expect they were going to put a press release out, although I will say that I'm sure they got a flurry of phone calls because Reuters is coming out saying These ransom notes are fake And then I do something mid morning on Wednesday saying Uhh, I made calls they're saying more likely than not real And so I think because people saw it was going two different ways, they must have gotten a lot of phone calls and they finally said, we, but you know, they didn't have to say anything. No, they didn't have to say a thing. They could have just been dismissive and slowwalked it or just ignored it. You know why? you know why I think they they wanted to come out and say somethingomething because that Those notes, they believe that somebody is going to blab something And that if they just shut if people just thought, well, those notes are fake, All of the clues that might lead you to the actual person from that note, people are going to say, Oh, it can't be true I think they wanted to keep that alive. And that's why they said, no, no, there are some notes that are real. I'm a little surprised. Why didn't they say those two? Why weren't they more specific I mean, it's clear they're talking about those two So I think you're spot on and I'll tell you why. As you know in these cases, the first forty eight, seventy two hours, ninety six hours at the outside Generally, if you're going to solve it, you're going to solve it right then with traditional police or detective work or investigative work Once you get past that period of time and the case becomes cold and especially a case like this, which has got just enormous resources and attention in it, then The overwhelming majority of times, the way it gets solved is loose lips or somebody has drops a dime on somebody else or somebody gets careless or something like that. I think that we are in that window. I think they believe, honestly believe within the FBI right now in the people who are who've been kind of firing at all cylinders. They think right now is the time when somebody is going to come forward I why are you whyaring that becausecause they the last that we talked about last week resonated with them in in an interesting way. The fact that it had the old wallet address and then referenced a new one. gave it some credibility. And you know, you don't know if it's a fraudster or not. And as I said or we said somebody apparently pled to be in a fraudster. However, there there were kind of earmarks or indishia in there that they believed internally could be to your point, more likely than not legit. If that's the case and there's somebody out there and they fully expect that right now is the time when somebody may be doing that and they don't want to quell that. They want to do the opposite. They want to encourage that person, come in, come in from the cold, tell us what you know andll give we'll cloak you with something. That's why I kept saying last week, if you're not a fraudster, now is the time to strike. Yeah, that's interesting. You know what I was just thinking of that early on in the investigation, there were certain items were found Um that be that got A lot of news attention I'm not going to say what it is because They haven't done anything with this. But there was one particular item I talked to somebody in the FBI who said We believe that Somebody in the media may have planted Item to get attention. and that they can prove that and they believed it to be true prosecute the individual. And that never happened It never happened Interesting Yeah. and and you know, it was it was just a really interesting sidebar. We never really talked to but we never reported that Um I remember someomebody told me that Um And they they really believed it U But again I Maybe there's no proof of it because they they never prosecuted anybody on that U It's just an interesting It was just an interesting kind of sidebar for me that They were really having trouble containing things because there was so much interest everybody was getting in everybody's way Well, and the most contaminated scene you could ever imagine if you would sent to to wanted to design how to have a transference issues and create a defense lawyer's petri dish for mischief. It would have been the way that that crime scene was handled. So you've done so many of these crime cases U If you were in charge of the FBI, on Monday morning after Nancy Ghrie was kidnapped What would you have done without might have made a that might have made a difference. Immediately engaged with the the ransom notes. that was your single best lead while doing and by the way, engaged how engaged how to pay the money I would have I would have paid I would have paid it immediately. You would have paid the four million absolutely I would have paid the four million, I would have done it They have I know for a fact just given some of the other cases I've handled and that I've looked at, they have ways of retrieving that. They have ways of blocking that. They can trace that. They couldn't do it man. I'm telling you, they tried. they couldn't do it Believe me, they were all over pro They prosecuted. There are people sitting in federal prison. Who could do it tomorrow? I mean they've got I sw Mark, I swear to you, There was one call with five agents on the phone with my IT team. They were doing everything they could. And I remember my IT team, it got so complicated. They were saying that when they went on the tip line, there was a cookie that would have dropped and the cookie could relate back to when they sent the email and there's a way of reverse engine, it was so complicated. They did everything they could. There's somebody watching this who would say that was an older generation or iteration the newest and the cutting edge ability is well beyond that. The fact that they were talking about that I call it that kind of breadcrumb theory tells me that they just didn't have the cutting edge. and that is part of the problem. What they did do, give them kudos for what they did do. Getting that Nest cam was incredible I there were other things that I think could have been done with that NASCA came immediately. and may have been done just haven't been reported. and There were they I If you were to criticize anything, they should have had their best and their brightest on the scene immediately and not waited him. Well, they weren't called in until forty eight hours after And like I said, there is a window. It is almost it's almost a a kind of a rule of thumb. If you don't if you don't solve it in that first forty eight, seventy two, ninety six, you're not going to But they have to be invited. I mean, look, You think about it No, I don't think. No, no, no. thinkink about it other. Think about it on the other saying you have to be invited have the National Guard invited No FBI is the eight hundred pll guerriilla. they go wherever they want. Think about it on the other side that if they would have jumped because it was Savannah Guthrie's mother All of these other people whose mothers or sisters or children were kidnapped They're going to come out and just tortch the FBI and say, o, you're doing that because Savannah's a celebrity, but you didn't do it with us. So they just couldn't win if they did something like that. Yeah, I understand the PR angle. Yeah, but it's real But it's real. But you could also send another message. People know that immediately they're going to be apprehended. and remember You and I heard the locals talking about it in the first couple of days. This is not uncommon. It's not an everyday occurrence, but these kinds of kidnappings across the border in proximity to the border are not uncommon. and that is one way to send a message or a speak So u at this point Um You know, this point. we talked last week about this guy that's been sending us these notes. He sent another note saying Okay, if you're not taking me seriously, I'm done because he was watching the social media posts that we were putting up So Um I would not be surprised if he's watching us right now So You told me last week there was better than a sixty five percent chance you believed this guy. Like I said, the FBI has questions, has doubts You believed him and frankly, I believe him more than the FBI does, I think. So you have the stage mark ' probably watching this because it seems like he watches everything. Talk to him Well, what you've got to do is you've got to reach out now now. Oh, you know, you're talking directly to him, Mark. Yeah. And you've got to you right now You need to talk to a lawyer, get that lawyer, give the information to your lawyer. You don't have to give all of it, but give enough so that you can get the kind of coverage that you need, the protection that you need And by the way, do do a fellow human a solid and give the closure to the family by giving them the information and telling them who's responsible. and you can get protected at the same time. This happens all the time. It is not unusual. It's something you can do. You can do it now So his concern is multiple. One that He might he says, he might be implicated because he knows these kidnappers. He says there are two Well, And he has a record, he has a burglary on his record eleven years ago So that's one of his things And the second thing is that he's worried they will seek revenge on this guy, which frankly It sounds to me like These guys are not into the violence of hurting somebody because they freaked out when Nancy died. So I don't know, mayaybe they would be, but he's concerned about them going after him and him getting implicated by authorities I would be more scared if I'm him if you're listening, I'm more scared that you've already revealed enough about yourself that they know who you are and would come for you if that was a legitimate fear. can You can dispel that fear. You can at least mitigate that if you if you lawyer up and get in there and get a deal done. You will get a deal done. I can tell you with about as much assurance other than death in taxes that a competent lawyer will be able to cut a deal for you. give you protection get you out of harm's way number two and get accomplish something good and turn a horrible situation into a redeeming situation. So I don't No, it's not a this is not An impossible situation you find yourself in. This is a situation that has and has all the earmarks and tools of being able to solve. What if he's greedy and really wants that Bitcoin, which he hasn't gotten And he goes to he says, look, that's any longer, the Bitcoin's going to go down to. Well, I mean, you could still ask for money. So. I mean, does money at all factor in if he does something like this or do you have to discard that and just say, lookook, give me immunity? There's already a million dollar reward. haveave they if youre if you're really, if that's what's motivating you What are you waiting for? Why are you looking for thirty two thousand dollars, sixty thousand dollars in Bitcoin when you there's a million dollars out there. Have your lawyer broker a deal and go get you your a million bucks Okay, the final thing that is just, you know, it's so interesting that, you know, we've been working on this thing for so long. And you know, you've said like five things here that have just really kind of struck me U When you said the FBI did something wrong is one of those things that they didn't and I don't know what they said to the Guthrie family is one of those things maybe not pushing the Guthrie family to pay that money early on Is that what you're driving at? All I will tell you is that there is a split in the FBI And there are the initial people who were on this are being second guess wildly and have basically been vindicated. and that is precisely why it played out the way it did yesterday They there there were missteps There were course corrections They believe the course corrections were too late Now you're in a spot where they think that the public and specifically Confederates can help and that's what theyre want. They don't want to dissuade people from helping. U sounds good. Have a good fourth, my friend Happy fourth, happppy two hundred and fiftieth But you don't look a day over one twenty five. I was gonna say, that was my joke. Thank you