Final Thoughts and Podcast Outro

Podcasting is a complicated profession, which is why we're here to discuss maul, shadow Lord. Currently airing at Disney plus, my name is Dan Moore and I'm joined as always by my co host, Cap Manishes here, Hi Cap. Hi, I'm sad that we don't have a catchphrase yet for the show Malcop That's not it. Bobble slash cup. Something on like the wrong side of the law son, I don't know Okay. Two bits for two boots. Tony Sandalar is also here. Hi Tony. Hey Tony. Hi nerds. Good to be back . We missed you missed you . Oh , not me . We are here to discuss chapters three and four Shadow Lord. Chapter three entitled Whispers in the Unknown. Not to be confused with whispers in the dark, legally distinct. Whispers in the dark. Is that a Lord of the Rings reference? It is a Lord of the Rings reference. Yeah. Look at me, drop a knowledge. Chapter four entitled Pride and Vengeance, not Pride and Prejudice. Do you think they're all go back to the previous two? Are they actually all literary references? The Dark Revenge and the Dark Revenge. No, they're just kind of Do you know the titles of the future one? Can't be. Yes. Inquisition Yeah . Night of the Hunted reference to Night of the Hunter Anyways , call to the Oblivion. The creeping fear. Honestly, they all just sound like the names of D and D adventures. They really don't, you know, or , you know, discount fantasy novels I don't know why you say that, look, those are two different things. Well, one of sometimes one of them has like a map inside it. of Nope, that's not true. They both yeah. That's not that feature. Novella. Keep working on those video diagrams. What would whispers in the unknown be as a D and D campaign? I think it could be anything, but I'm imagining like there's like a castle in like a kind of foggy swamp is what I'm thinking, whispers of the unknown. There's a ghost girl. I was thinking there's a ghost in it. I was thinking of the unknown. Forbidden forest kind of thing. Like here in the woods in the wilderness. Could be that but we agree it's somewhere somewhere rustic. Dark and gloomy. Lots of fog. Do we agree there's all fog? Yeah, there's fog. Oh, there's hella fog. I think whispers of fog go to hand in hand because the sound effects in the fog like it carries differently and so the whispers are creepy. What happens in whispers in the dark? There's no fog in this episode is there? There's a lot of darkness , ironically for wh,ispers in the unknown , um , but yeah, there's all not a lot of fog . Uh , shall we do a quick recap? Yes, can you get your dice out should do this again? I was not prepared . Or we can do should we dice my peacole ? So you can pick a number between one and the total number of episodes in this series, which is ten . So please pick a number between one and ten . Please pick a number between one and ten. Random. Do a random calculation of a number between one and ten. So roll a ten sided die, I think is what you're asking. Yeah, you could say that . I could say that. I was waiting for my dice app to download. Someone on Discord called the show The Cat Chaos Power Half Hour and that has stuck with me. And I was like, That's a good , what have we ever said with it a half hour? Yeah, that was the one . Not the one. Nine was the answer. All right, you get nine. I think the Wikipedia summary is longer than nine sentence. Longer than nine sentences. So I get nine sentences. That's what we did before. It wasn't nine words. It was nine. I think we tried the words in it really didn't really work no. Okay . Maul and Devin have an interaction is clauses . An interaction? Is this like a puzzle? Are you trying to hide what actually happens from the Lord Listeners? They have tea, and then there you go. And then Devin grabs the lightsaber and they have a cat and mouse game through the darkness . That's one sentence. Oh, I'm just counting on my hands for fun. That's sentence. The one just there. That was a sentence. Also the one where you pointed out that that was a sentence. Yeah, our sentences count againedst your sentences. Meanwhile Lawson is trying to figure out what's going on with Vario and the Pikes and tells what two boots what he's learned, but is supposed to go to see his son's sporting match at which he is approached by Docky , who claims to be Devin's uncle and says that she's innocent, but he is called away to deal with confrontation between the Vikes, the Pikes and Varios men wear maul ambushes two boots and random cop guy whose name I don't think we learn. I think it's like re I think we're gonna call that six sentences . Two boots is still advocating calling the empire and Lawson is not super thrilled about that. Seven s enses Devin makes a bolt for freedom and Maul shows up to reclaim his other half of the lightsaber and then reveals that he knows her name . With the whispers in the dark. Yeah. That was fine. I looked you up in the phone book I talked to my lightsaber about it Did you read that conspiracy theory? Wait, what? Yes. Okay. If you watch it with captions on, which I do, it says the lightsaber is talking . Yeah. When it does the duel fate, it's like , but then they're kind of there. They debunked it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's it's the it's the kind of choral music from the duel of the fates, I think is it's Kyber crystal inside the lightsaber that somehow is connecting to like the force network and just background music. Yeah, oh yeah, every lightsaber has the ability to log into informs a who is on to Jedi that it immediately like tracks your fingerprints. Oh, naturally. I do think it's cool that the it feels like it is such a common trope in old school magic because you can't let them know your true name and the power of a true name . And I've really enjoyed that Devin sort of as a surly teenager doesn't say her name, but it also does call back to that you're giving Maul power by letting him know your name. I'm also enjoying that we're not just seeing like a retreading of the emperor trying to bring Luke to the dark side . Like Maul is a lot weirder , right? And maybe playing a longer game here . I mean it seems like he effectively lets her lets her go and isn't too worried about that. He knew like he's planting seeds, right? Like yes, he's making her feel doubt and he basically spends a lot of time talking to her about like, man , doesn't it just annoy you? Yeah , the Jedi or have been reduced to this and like that you oh you were the guardians of peace and justice, but now everybody wants to kill you and he's just trying to like slowly like yeah suborner like essentially like convince her that he's right about this which I like because I feel like the generic sith recruitment pitch is I can give you power that you really want. Yeah . And or and or let me put you in a situation that makes you choose really bad and lose control this is this is much more like the same games with you. Yeah. Or just yeah, I think it's in some ways a little similar to the acc olites . Yes, it means it's much more of like doubt about the right way of the Jedi and therefore if you shine that way you can only take the way, but also okay, this is a somewhat idiotic question . Is Darth Mal a Sith Lord? He is not I think this gets into a very text e. Yeah, a question that nerds are arguing over in the Talmudic text about what is not a Sith Lord. Which I think there's like, what does a Sith Lord mean right now? Because I don't, I mean, because there's like the whole thing of like , you know , what do you like do you have to have do you have to have a membership card to be a Jedi a force user? Because he's he's a spooky dark side of the force user , but he is not part of the he's not part of he's force agnostic. And I liked your use of Telmodek here in part because I happened to be at some point in the last couple days watched a YouTube video, a Star Wars YouTube video, one they put out like a promotional video, which is like it was like a history of Maul essentially. It was like two minutes of like here's where he started and where he ends up and it's narrow it's Sam what we're talking. And some of it feels like stuff that was like used in the show, but like it was like he's got like a little speech and it feels like they clipped parts of it but it's him talking at the beginning he says like once Darth now just Maul and so like I feel like the way they view Maul is that he has left that part behind but that he is still like, I don't think he's like Sith Orthodox. That's what do you form Sith. That's kind of he's not part of like the dogma and the I don't even know what you call like the like the structure of the church or the structure of the Sith. But I think there's a question of like, does he still have the core beliefs even if he's not in broadly the dogma ? But or is it like instead what I think is one of the joysticks of Star Wars of in some ways pointing out the Jedi in, fact not, we're good. And like we're gending towards this like narrower band of what it means to be a force user and Jarth Moha is gray. But we're rejecting the duality of I'm sure there's some comic book that covers it , but it sure feels like hasn't really gone through like the path that other I mean, and I guess we've seen in Star Wars that we've watched, we've seen like we've seen what the Assajventress recruitment process look like . We saw what Maul's brother Savage Savage depressed? Yeah, I did not remember that, but yes, vaguely. We saw kind of what the process for him. And you know, I feel like Maul Maul or when he was Darth Maul was kind of just like an assassin and he was not part of like Darth Vader, I think Darth Vader has a pension saying he like he has he has an imperial star destroyer. He exists slightly outside of the military command structure, but adjacent. He gets to go to meetings. He has people things. What the word the gray amise, the gray grease amise. Greece. Yeah. Like the Richelut.her an Yeah. Yeah, whereas like Dark Small thank you was not invited to those. He's a contract or. Yeah, he gets a ten ninety nine every year. Well he's just like he's sent to deal with stuff. Whereas Darth Vader got to be an apprentice , right? Yeah . It does not I'm just saying I don't think I think Maul is being exploited. He's in a he's in one of those internships where you're not actually developing job skills he's just being used for cheap labor . And honestly, I'm coming around to his worldview now. Suddenly it all started to click . You should take over multiple crime syndic ates. You deserve this . Well, it kind of goes back to I mean, Maul is interesting and I don't really revenge appears to be his motivation right now, but I think it goes back to what makes his recruitment of Devin seem so interestings it' 's notcause about becoming an all powerful Sith Lord. It's more of , again, just, I think, yeah, life's unfair and doesn't that annoy you? And like, don't you want to be able to do something about it . Yeah . I mean, and he understand that point of view. I feel like cat is being swayed to the dark side . It's not the dark side. It's not the dark side, right? You can go to the dark side without being a Seth . Yeah. But is it still the dark side? And like this whole light and dark, I think it's just like I think more complicated is the guy with the double bladed lights . Pretty cool I mean, he does seem not interested in what does Arthem want Exactly . Well, but I think we know what I mean he said when he scores . He wants to like so okay, let's say we get to the very end. He's killed everyone. He's taken over the criminal empire, and then what? Is it all to get back ? Well, I guess yeah, I just forget what happens later is like is his motivation to kill Darth Sidiath? Like is this unfair he said that yeah I think he said that and and I think Devin fits into his I don't know if he has a plan. He seems Darth Maul I sorry Maul seems to operate a lot on vibes and like what did I think of this dream sequence ? And I feel like we didn't see as much of his Mandalorian second and command this episode. But in the previous episode, it seemed like Devin is important for getting to Palpatine. He spends a lot of time with her in this episode and I think I'm very I like the way that they animated this with the darkness where she's constantly unaware of where he is and you see him show up, but every time she turns around, he's already gone. It's a very horror movie . I did laugh a little bit at the one scene where like she finds door that's locked and she's like so frustrated holding a lightsaber . It cuts through anything it opens any door. And in fact, you can do that and not burn your hand as we saw in the Phantom Menace flat . So yeah, but it's still an infective like terrifying scene because you know, Devin may be a Jedi, but we get the impression certainly. I mean, I think does Docke caller a padawan at the beginning? Like I don't remember I missed that so if not been a Jedi for super long , right? Like she is maybe she is like a soka at the beginning of Clone Wars level basically, which I guess is Padawan, but like she's not far beyond that. And so she is, I guess mall,eable in a way. Well, it's also we don't know how she found Docky, right? We don't know if she was a youngling or she was picked up later by him or if they were already pairs or before then. It'll be interesting if they and they know that or not an interesting short conversation in the next episode. Yeah. I don't know if we do we need to do a week of that. Let's talk quick about two boots. Two boots and two boots two boots. Two boots like again, the troubling how do we treat droids as sentient people or not? And what do you do when your boss comes and tells you that your AI agent is causing trouble ? Yeah, you assign them to deskword desk . That's right. Yeah, because he goes over Lawson's head about calling the empire and that is what gets him sent to the desk . And so two boots. He's lawful good to a f ault I mean he's well he's he's a robot and he has and there's people programming Yeah and he's like scene where you push you have defeated it you have you have broken protocol repeatedly The scene where he pushes the boxes in front of the frame picture of him and Awesome is just like so emotions. Yeah I like this dynamic because it is the classic sort of by the book versus like loner cop , but it's also got that freighted with that extra like droid versus person versus like just the wedge that we've drawn between like we hadn't spent too much time with these guys, but we know enough about them from the first couple episodes to realize that they are close and that they have a relationship and he tells them to like go visit go see his son's game and all this stuff like and it was also really cool to see two boots and everything in that attack when they're get ambushed by M aul's team of like often the droid is presented as there to help or communicate relief or something is backup, but like he holds his own and he's the one who's doing it. I was like it was supposed to see a droid essentially as a real main character. He's not espe lciaterally yeah. He's from the C three PO format of droids . And like C three PO basically always looks like he's about to fall over. You do not see C three PO ever run or even really walk confidently . And yeah, and Two Boots is like, No, I'm gonna flip up onto this crate and shoot at people. Dodge Dive and do attack and hold his own against human. He's gotten this job for a reason. He's not just been programmed for it, probably. No, but that's also one thing I noticed too it comes up in the next episode when you see people fighting is I think one critique we sometimes see of the live action in Star Wars is just how human forward they are, which I get because like aliens are expensive . But it is awesome because it's like the only real main character who's human in this is Lawson . And there's a great scene between Darth Maul this l,ater is scene just jump eping device before, like when Maul, Devin and Docker all fighting it's like, oh this is cool. It's three aliens having a fight. Yeah. I also think animated wise , the physicality of the model s is so strong that you can do a lot of stuff that you can't really do in live action without looking a little ridiculous . And it works like some of the stuff here is outlandish, right? It defies physics, et cetera. But like it looks cool. It reads an animation in a way that people in life would be harder to read in live action . Yeah. Again, Animation will say there's a moment, I think, when at the tea ceremony where you see Darth Maul furrow his brows, it was just like again, mesmerizing animation of just the detail they have there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, I 'll apologize again as someone who was skeptical about the basic premise of this series . What is it? Sam Whitware excellent voice acting so good and really and it's like it's kind of wild how it was transform ed this character that basically just existed to sell action figures into this like weird deranged crime boss slash you know, dark jedi slash , you know, who has this just kind of very weird kind of charisma? It is it's very strange. It's also extremely fascinating to me to see which actors take to voice acting. Like, so you have a class of voice actors, right, who are people who that is like their main bread and butter who is like their voice actors, right? Like Sam Whiter he appears in live action. You see him sometimes in some stuff, but like I think he mainly does voice acting similarly like a lot of the other like you know certainly side characters here right you get Steve Blum and Vanessa Marshall who are both in rebels are predominantly voice actors and you see them here . And I find those voices so seamless. Yes , I find it a little more I don't want to say jarring, but like having actors who are predominantly like screen actors come to voice acting, I think is often more challenging because I think they are used to having a larger toolbox to work with. Yes . And so for example , I think that like I really like Lawson and I like Docky, but I think Wagner Mora and Dennis Hazbert are both great voices, but like they I don't again I think they struggle by basically having other tools that they really probably rely on heavily in live action that you just can't take advantage here . So I think Lawson is good as a character, but I don't think his performance there is not as dynamic as some of the other performances, even I think Devin is really good too. I will say Gideon Adlin , who is the actress for that, who I think is a fairly young actress is really good. I think it's good but I think the other ones are great as random ing trivia. Yeah. Gideon Adlin's daughter of Dan. Pamela Adlen. Damn, Pamela Adlin, who's a pretty prolific voice actress who voices, I forget the character's name, but the action Lossons inform it . She's most she's I think her biggest role is she voices the son Bobby Hill and King of the Hill. She also is a comedian slash comic actress because she had a live action show for a while too on Hulu. I want to say a single something. So yeah, she's been around . No, but yeah. Should we go over chapter four? Can I please add a die roll temp please? Yeah, are you doing this? Are you doing the recap? I think it's Tony's turn. I think Tony did it last week. No, I did it last week. Okay. I took over because you were too slow. Oh, you're lucky. You got a ten. All right, take your time, Tony. Okay, this is sentences. Ten sentences. Or clauses your choice. we're at the place where the pikes live? Question mark is still a sentence. What's it called? Obidia. Obidia. I don't know if you've heard of that before. That's not part of my recap . But it's all a trap. Vario is there , I guess, returning credits based on a they had a phone call earlier, but of course, it's all a pretense to get maul in so he can assassinate the leader . I'm a little confused about what parts of the trap vario is or isn't in on because there's a whole thing where it looks like Maul, but they of course never show his face and the pikes capture him and it's not Maul, it's one of his unnamed associates that is the same type of alien that he is. I think Parliament do but it was really good acting. It actually convinced I feel like I wouldn't I wouldn't trust him with too much information. Is it strange that they haven't once had him say, It's me, Vario . Dan Meanwhile, back on Janix , Lawson gets a tip on where Maul is doing stuff. And they talks to his boss and there's a ra id and they all go to basically a big empty warehouse and Maul is there on a little hologram thing to have like a you know like just leave and this could all be okay . Lawson is not the kind of cop who will walk away from that. And so there's a big old shootout and people are running around in the dark and it's kind of hard to follow. Seems like a lot of people got killed. Also seems like maybe there's more Mandalorians than I had previously tracked . But Lawson eventually finds he interrupts a fight between our three lightsaber users, Daki Devin and Maul , where various people get hurt , but it basically means that that duel is not to the death. I feel like this is not a good recap . The Maul runs away, but his, I think his legs have been badly hurt in the fight or leg singular . And then Lawson and Tu Botos meet up and Two Boots is very apologetic because he has followed through on his programming Q an Imperial Star Destroyer arriving in not just in orbit but in the atmosphere Janix. I was wondering if this is one of our earliest chronologically imperial starters ever. So I forget what if we saw any in Bad Batch slash where we are in Bad Batch compared to that From what I heard, we're only about a year after the end of Clone Wars at this point, which early. I would have pegged it a little bit later, but this is not long after Maul flees Mandalore . I always this is a general critique of Star Wars . I feel like there's always things are a little weird where like there seems to be like a lot of turnover in in spaceships . And this is I think particularly tricky when it's like at the time of a new hope, the rebel alliance has X wings and they look kind of old and beaten up, but we've never seen a time when X wings are new . So I don't know when that is . And they go through several stages of capital ships in the Clone Wars, right? Where are they? Senators? Senators? Yeah . I feel like there's two models of those that we're slightly more imperial destroyer as before we go to the Star Destroyer The imperial star destroyers, as I recall, I don't know if this is still canon, but they used to be the ISD two s were the common models. So implies there was a whole range of ISD ones that we don't know ID ones. Oh those were like that was just a prototy pe or something Or whatever they are. Yeah. But I don't know. Maybe it's all like a jobs program and they're like retiring these after like thirty years . It just seems like I mean, we have we have like aircraft carriers that have been hanging around for a long time. Yeah I mean, but I guess from a early storytelling point of view, yeah, they really want the image of a Star to Street there because that's far more interesting than it's there. We need to sell you a new Lego set for every movie. Yeah, we can't just sell you an imperial starter with like a new Republic logo on it or something. It's got that vibe like Rogue one, right? When they go to Jeddah and they see Star Destroy hanging over the city. I feel like that is an image that is cool. It is like I have to say it is a question that works, but yeah, I mean spaceships . Also yeah, also the Jedi mag ic . It is a very creepy image in a way that like Imperial Star Destroyer is in the orbit over Tatooine and Luke is like, I don't know, were they shooting at each other? Maybe they're just transports versus like there is like a war machine hanging out in your , you know, like over your city is very creepy. It's very evocative of occupation. I think always think of like season four Battle Stark Galactica which, I think is one of the best seasons ever of like what happens how do you deal with occupation? And I think every which episode of Board we also realized one of the reasons, if not the reason, Lost and his wife are no longer together, she is with the Empire. Oh yeah, that's a that's a dude. Is it? Is it Tubo who mentions that? Essentially, you're too close to this. Yeah, is this why you don't want to ring the Empire is because it's your ex wife right before . I don't think that's the only reason I think I don't think so either. But it's a little spice to throw in there. Yeah, but it was actually kind of nice to see I think that's the first time we've seen sort of how a personal relationship gets torn in a war on sort of opposing sides . But yeah, definitely and it kind of made me think too it sparked the thought as you guys were taking earlier like what is if Maul's end game is Dracidious is potentially drawing the empire here part of his goal to learn the emperor to kill him and somehow you, Devon? I don't know. I don't think so. I think he wanted to keep though. At least based on his weird phone call with Watson I think his wants he's got a plan and he, I mean, it seemed like he's like just walk away and this will be better for everybody and it seems like he's still building up his , you know, his plans and his machinations . Yeah. I like we have in this episode we have so Devin and Daki , Master Daki reunite. And they have an interesting conversation about where he's like, we should just leave right because the Empire is coming. And she's like, but we're potentially basically but like though we're not there's no Jedi or anymore. Like maybe we can start Maul, like if not us, who? But I have the title stuck in my head of this is called Pride and Vengeance, right? Like I also inter I think you can, depending on the tone, I can also interpret her of like, who are you to think that you can stop Maul, right? That's pride to think that rather than running away. So but like the cops are not equipped, right? Like we see the flow fact that they bring like a huge slew of people and yeah, they fail and it and like the cop they like what? Like five of them went into the police station and murdered like all the cops and they did not walk out with stuff plan that properly and have it end up. Yeah, their strike team that like walked into the middle of the warehouse. That was not great . But it did seem like there were a lot of bad guys everywhere probably yeah yeah so I get what you're saying Kat. I think there is probably an element of pride there saying like we should do this but, also there is an obligation. And I think they do rightfully realize that like nobody else will be capable of taking down Maul. Like Maul is known, right? Like we know from the very like first, you know, Devin knows who he is. He is like, you know, he is a figure of some repute at least amongst the Jedi . So they know what he's capable of . And I think that is it's good, right? His reputation precedes him . And so I think she's right to say there's nobody else equipped to do this, but equally Docky is like I think is smart to say I'm not even sure we're the right people for this job . And also is anybody going to if we show up and haul him in, they're going to arrest us too and probably execute us. You know, I never know how to read various fights. So we have the standoff between Maul Docky and Devin until it basically gets interrupted and everyone runs away . Like were they holding their own? Was Maul not going full? But I never know like why I feel like I always struggle with this how to read these things . I took it as he was very bunch beating them and it was not a fair that he was much better than outclassing them . I did take Docke's blow to Maul's knee as a lucky blow and essentially that because they weren't they were good, but it didn't seem like it was actually a high sick situation. I never thought there were I mean, obviously Maul has plot armor but I took the and you saw him all struggling later to walk with the knee. So I took that as potentially just a very lucky blow. I thought that was a nice reminder that he has those robot leg s. The robot legs. Yeah, like it was I felt like Dockey did okay . I think I do agree that I think Maul is, you know, that is he put all his points into lightsabering and gangstring and maybe these Jedi are more multi class Jedi or something , but they are not necessarily the top swordsmen or people of the Jedi order types, top sword fighters . But I did like that Daki showed a degree of kinniness with that, right? Like because we see him earlier on where he's just walking around with like a pipe and he can still do like a decent amount of damage with that and he still got power, right? Like but he is yeah, he's probably on the older side and it seems like he moves a little slower and he's also I think I think I would or add to that . I imagine and this may be me reading into things, but I think he's trying to protect Devin too . So he may be distracted because it's not a one on one fight. It's Ham il trying to look out for her . Somewhat of a reserve fight. I mean, we didn't see them for example , like they weren't letting loose with a bunch of other force powers. There weren't people like getting slammed into walls or things thrown with force or people getting forced choke. Throws Devon Maul throws against a pillar at one point. Yeah. And I don't think Maul probably has the ability to throw force lightning or anything like that . But it didn't yeah, it didn't, I mean, it didn't seem as Lord can fall out , you know , as other fights, but you know, I don't know what I'm supposed to take away from that. He's also sorry, go ahead. I guess it's also like does Maul Watsa killed? Well, that's what he's going to say. Like I think he wants to keep Devin alive and like I think there might still be something he's trying to emotionally manipulate that he needs Dockey alive to let that play out because seems like is Dockey we also know is he fatally injured? No, I don't think so. I think he's injured but not critically. But I think I think he also Maul is savvy enough to know if he kills Dockey in front of Devin chance of trying to turn harder is a lot harder. That really sours a working relationship. So I mean that's interesting, right? It's an interesting dynamic because then he needs to fight well enough to stay alive, but also not well that he is killing because I keep thinking I kept thinking like seeing Dockey running around. I was like, well, he feels like he's gonna bite it at some point, but like that is a that like you said, that puts a bit of a cap on that relationship . So at what point do they get there? Or do you sow the discord between the two of them in the hopes that like Devin will decide that Docke is not taking the tack that she wants to take . Yeah, it'll be interesting too. We've spent four episodes now setting up the dynamic between Mall , Vario Pike and Dimas and then the local population and now bringing the empire into the mix'd be interesting to see how that affects things including the space lacrosse games . They don't they don't name. They don't name the Space Lacrosse game. I thought I heard in the background or something but I don't know what it was. I did have a lot of questions about how Space Lacrosse works. It seems to be in a very , very big stadium or his son is like essentially a pro player, right? We don't know like he's actually like semi pro because it's pretty big stadium. There are hundreds s of thousand of people here to see what I thought was just going to be like a high school sporting game and his son is apparently very good at it because he immediately is scoring points, right ? Shock shockball. That's your space. Shockball Space Cross is shockball. That is I'm gonna give that like a B minus C plus yeah, C plus B minus, you know Parisi squares. It's no parisi squares. It's I just Dabo's pretty good. You know, I just think I think you could either go with I think you need at least one nonsense word in your made up science fiction sport, right? Shuckball sounds Chuck Ball. No two eighties sci fi. Yeah, it's too much like Roller Derby. Yeah, exactly. With like lightning . Yeah . Very running man. Yeah, I was going to say with Empire coming, oh, I had another thought I've but completely forgotten it it so can be important. I'll just keep talking till it comes back to me. Someone else jump in . I got nothing. You said you were going to keep talking . So the empire's coming . I think one interesting question that we don't really know , and I don't think they've gotten too much into in, although there is some stuff in, I guess the trailers that does hint at this is that we don't know who the Empire sends . I think there's the trail er that there was at least an inquisitor. Possibly seen before. The name of the next episode is Inquisitor. Inquisition minor spoiler. Maybe it's the Spanish Inquisition, but probably inquisitors, they're also the ones who show up to work with the cops, or are they more like off doing their thing while the regular army or what navy is there to like Yeah Laise. I mean, I'm sure there will be some stormtroopers as we've seen well so there's the whole thing where , you know, like Maul is like has like an ISB file and like any sighting of him gets goes way way up . So you could imagine there could be all kinds of weirdness where you know that maybe there are stormtroopers here for one part of a mission and an inquisitor running around. Of course we don't know what Lawson's wife does. Oh yeah, ISB Yeah. Probably not an inquisitor. That would be real quick. His wife is the grand inquisitor. What was you ever say is like the Lawson Maul interaction? Like I was actually I thought maybe again to our earlier conversation offline of whether or not I'm a sociopath of like I actually went to out myself there. I do I do think it was I was if I were Lawson , I would have been very conflicted by Maul's offer . Like and I don't know how you felt that. I felt like Lawson dismissed it very quickly What do you tell? Not an offer's like, but if you're really that opposed to the empire, right? Like, would you trade the empire for essentially a warlord? mall? No, not just to be clear cat. No . Also, he is personally opposed to the empire. He is professionally opposed to crime criminal warlord s running city . But it really is positioned the empire ? Yes, yes. Crime. Also the other one of them are Nazis yeah fascism either way. Also he's not in power like I don't think like A I don't think the character wants to do that but B, I don't think he can say like yes fellow cops we will make this video let's go back home nobody say anything to our boss . Nobody. But I think it's also a question if you even took that offer and the Empire came after you, they would destroy you in retaliation. So like, I can understand even it seems like a good deal in the time in the long term is probably not a good deal. He's also clearly a no he's a lawful good a paladin, right? Like you know he's the tired weary paladin. He's your Philip Marlowe or something. I'm just surprised he didn't like even consider the deal . I hope you consider we talk through some deal points. Could we like what's my cart ? You know, Kat, not everybody is the negotiator you are. I mean, I think, you know, he one time, Tony. One time, that's all it takes. You know, he's a cop. And yeah, he's and this he's literally been investigating the spree murder that this guy has committed , and you're in his like serial killer warehouse surrounded by gangsters. Like, this is a guy who needs to go to jail. So my question to our listeners, if you would have at least considered the deal , right in do you consider the deal? Yeah, what would you have done in this moment if you were you know, keeping in mind different levels of knowledge you might or might have about Mall slash Darth Maul in the context here , right? You know, is is there a mall that you would make a deal with, you know, young just assassinator No bike around mall crazy stranded on a Sith planet all because like Esper Briter makes a deal with Maul and you guys bad idea doesn't go well. It doesn't go well yeah just let's do it do you want to rehash what happens in that situation ? Oh that so's his deal there is like cute. We will work, we will work together because we're stranded on this planet together. He does not say, Oh, yes, please govern my planet. Is this when Darth Vader shows up? Yes, yeah. Oh yeah. Okay . Yeah , and Canan gets blinded yeah. Yeah . Yeah . Yeah, there's a lot. There's some negative fallout from that. Yeah, doesn't go great. Yeah . Now the thing about that episode I see potentially, but all those things together do lead to some other outcomes , including the wolfs. Oh, sure. So yeah, I don't want you to look at the picture . I think maybe the ends justify like I was , maybe just the wolves justify the means wolves. That's Dave Falloni's operating . You know what? He knows what he likes An likes wolves. Wolves . Yeah, he's hats. There are not enough force wolves. And like I still want to go back to the mythology. I maybe get in the Mandalorian movie. Not the Mandalorian movie, sorry, the Asoka season two. 's Are there other force creatures on other planets that are not wolves? Like, you know? Yeah, the like the owl. The owl . What about some would you like some like force like ferrets on some planet or something? Force elephants. Isil Miri, isilmiri. Are they forced? Or they block the force? Yeah, block. I think in order to block the force, you need to have some access to the force. Okay, right. I don't know. I don't know. You tell me. Also to thank you for I've never tried to say the name of that Mary, but I think it's an Irish and I'm not even gonna try. Took us two episodes to get to Hand of the Empire there . Or was it the Hand of the Throne and Hand of Empire? Nope. Empire. Empire. Are E thempire Thank you got my Midaslone nowadays. Yep. Are they canon? They are because they see them in the background of mall of Toronto at one point. Well, we don't know what they do, but they're there. Yeah. Maybe he just maybe he's just weird pets. Yeah. He's just You don't know. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He's a strange collector. He could have some weird lizards that may or may not walk the forest. Fair enough, fair enough. Oh yeah, they're on the planet Mercur y. Stop saying these fade off words. I love God all of those books. You've never mentioned. I know What else anything else that was just thinking about those beat up paperbacks I used to have ? I got them all in hardcover, those three. I got I retired them when they went to a library in the sky. External. The issue is D,an and I have cop ies of both of them. Yeah, mine are hard covers . They're really nice hardcovers. Are you okay? I met two once. I'm not gonna ask any questions. Okay , fine, you know, there's nothing wrong with having books. Okay, any other things that we need to cover about these two episodes . I feel like we've covered this is a good, you know, we're we're what four out of ten. Yep. Yeah. I feel like this is I'm pleased with how they're going. I'm pleased with where they're going . It feels like, you know, dropping a starter story at the end of episode four, it feels like nice nice time . Usually the starter shows up at the beginning of episode four Yeah, good I think good cadence and I think four is just about the time to ratchet it up with here comes the Empire. Now we've talked about them for four episodes . I just'm p icturing someone as that thing, you know, comes up, you just hear somebody like, yo drop that beat. Dude , they need to drop the when they do it in the major key and solo, which is really fun. Maybe you can play that in our intro in this one episode. I will see. I will say when Tubus apologized to Lawson as well as like, oh, that's sweet he's actually apologizing and then it cuts as like, oh no, he was apologizing for something else. It's Edally , this is the great place to tell you guys this thing that I didn't tell you before, but you mentioned dropping the podcast over? No, you dropped the music in. This will be for our listeners too. Sorry if you listen on Spotify. I can't imagine we have that many listeners in Spotify because our last episode got pulled from Spotify because of music rights. Really? Yes. Which music did you do? All I used was the theme to the show. I used like ten, fifteen seconds of it as the intro music and then like a couple seconds as the outro, which I've done for literally every show that we've ever put out. And as far as I know, it's the first time we've ever gotten pulled. So what did you do? Did you put it back or remove the music? No, I didn't bother because it's I got told Jason Snell told me and he's like, yeah, whatever. Is it a business meeting now? Yeah, it's now business. Anyways, so sorry if you listen on Spotify They might not, but they're not . Yeah, I guess may hopefully they sought this out in another way. How about this? Instead, we can record the three of us that are like an acapella version of the intro. Duel of faith. I'm concerned that we are not qualified for that. I think I'm not everyone's qualified. I know we're not qualified . Don 't Nope You could do all the parts of them, Dan can layer them together. I don't think there we go. I don't see any reason to, you know, sully this with our involvement . The issue is I get this song in like many like I get a lot of songs confused . It's true. Including the what's the there's the final countdown and then the song they always play when they show you like Dracula's castle Dun dun dun why that's a Bok fug . You know what? I understand that now and like I actually like that that makes sense to me because there is there's a similarity . Even though if I lived in that mind, that would be mad . If I told you dun dun dun dun es that is that I think I hear final countdown more than I hear. That's what Dan says too. Well, one of them, I think is in a minor minor minor. Can you say that in place for me? Tod we're being removed from Spotify again. Tod that's final countdown. That's final countdown box. Can you make a dun e? I got that like you're very similar. Yeah . You know, this is this is like an under pressure situation I did feel a little pressured . I think it's Takota and Fugin D minor. I'm pretty sure that's the can you google that in similarities now with do final countdown seems other people have the same thing that I do you're worried that you're unique . There are people who have mashed them up for sure. Oh , wow . But I like this part of the podcast where just cat as Dan to do something at Google. Google. It's like yeah. Tony, can you try and do those two songs? No . What two songs do you get confused all the music Like all of them . I will have the thing where I will hear like a clip of a song somewhere . Like I feel like you don't hear music out in the wild . You know, the, you know, I think one of the places where I hear music in the wild more than anywhere is like at the dentist's office and I will hear a thing where I will hear like because they play music at my dentist's office like in the waiting room and I will hear like a clip of a song and I will have that stuck in my head but it's only part of the song and it is then mad dening for me to try and find the actual song and that happens to me about once a year hopefully every six months. That is well I go to denis more often than that, but I am only subjected to getting a fragment of a song that I do not know stuck in my head and then having to search for it so I can hear the whole song and thus release myself from a prison I've constructed Yeah So that's how brains work. Yeah. Yeah. , or don't work . So I know this is probably coming out on not too long after our last episode little early because of some scheduling changes . So we don't have any listener mail this week our next episode will be somewhat delayed. Yeah. So you have a big opening to write in to Dan. Yeah, lots of listener mails . Email us at ACP at the incomparable dot com. Find us on Macedon, where we are at ACP at Zeppelin Dufflights, or find us on Blue Sky, where we're at ACP. The incomparable. com and tell us your thoughts about this show. I'm kind of curious. I feel like I haven't heard a lot of discourse about this show and I think it's a good show and I am surprised that more people aren't talking about it, but I also feel like I mean post and or season two, I feel like people had high expectations . Yeah . And also, you know, people struggle with not everybody watches the animated show. So maybe that's part of it. But yeah, and right in two if you would have taken Mul's deal . Are you just trying to feel better? Yeah. No, no, I'm just curious. You two have a very particular sense of ethics . And I just do you mean to say a sense of ethics? Are you still developing that? I would just like to know that I was ahead of leadership and values for your entire leadership with land values. Yes, and values in this economy. All right , that's it. We're done. Thank you, everybody out there for listening. Thanks to our members. If you would like to become a member of the Incomporable, you can go to the Incomporable. com slash members, sign up, get lots of great perks, including bootleg episodes, bonus content, and access to our members discord. We'll probably do a episode at some point. You can write in with all your favorite song s and we will try to sing them Acapella. No, we will not do that because the rights issues are we're gonna have to pay so many fees on our next episode. There's how that works. You can do, you can sample, right? There's a sampling rule. You could do a certain amount. Sampling is not singing , covering a song. But if I did like a ten seconds, okay, first of all, Box not gonna sue you. So this is not music legal advice leg.al For purposes , I need to you can't even a law song in a book though. Yeah. Really? No. Yeah . Not without getting the licensing or program. People, unethical people have built up a world of laws. However, there is a compulsory licensing that means every song is allowed to be covered, but you are forced to pay a certain fee, which is a set fee . Which basically is like because we want radio to exist. Right. That makes complete sense. Yeah. I always find that very funny in comparison with the You Can't Quote a Song because it's like you can't hear the song that I wrote a quote of it's like I can't show Cat a picture of Dracula's c astle because he'll start thinking about the final countdown. That's law. There's a specific case. There's a specific case. No one Dracula shows the yeah no one is allowed to show Cat y send a lot of a pict pureicture of Dracula's castle because she will start taking a final count. I think it's actually 're Europe, right? Because they were the final country in Europe, the European Union. Yeah, the Dracula. I guess so ride in with the song s that are no longer under copyright. So I think that it before nineteen dopain . nineteen thirty nine, nineteen thirty one. What is it now? We get a lot of rag time hits . Write in with your favorite Scott Joplin song . Okay , I'm going to put an end to this. Yeah, if you don't, nobody will. Don't get me in trouble. That is the Scotch Japlin song. I'm impressed. Thank you. Let me thank most of all my co hosts . Cat Benish, always pleasure. Long suffering sigh. This has been fun . Thanks all. Tony Stanzalar, thanks for being here. Goodbye nerds. Bye nerds. Thank you everybody out there once again for listening. We'll see you next time, but until then, may the Force be with you The incomparable podcast network become a member and support this show today , the incomparable dot com slash members