Tim Cook and Keynote Reflections

Now it's WBC Week. This is the most important podcast episode that we do in the year. This is the one that we get , but usually significantly more downloads than average . It's the one where we have the most live listeners. It's the one really where everyone's most excited about our show . And it always happens in the same one to two weeks span. It's always the first or second week of June . And it's been that way for , I don't know, thirty years. Casey, when did you schedule a vacation ? So as it turns out, I am not at home right now. I am at the beach . So first of all, if I sound funny, I am using my normal microphone, my normal preamp, my normal mute switch. I am using different XLR cables if that matters, but I am in a very, very different physical environment. So are they oxygen free cables? Yeah, right. They're gold plated Mar,co just for you. So if I sound like crap, that is my fault not Marco's. And we wanted to address that right now. I mean, hopefully I sound normal or normal ish, but if it's a little echoey or something like that, or if you hear a child or a dog in the background, I will try to ride the seagull aggressively. Seagulls, something like that . But yeah, so I'm in a different spot. That's not what Marco was asking you to address, by the way. I'm getting there. I'm getting there. So the thing of it was that we had thought that we were going to do another overseas trip this summer. We thought this in the summer of twenty five, we thought, okay, this summer twenty sixth, we're going to go back overseas. And we had planned our vacation schedule with the assumption that we would be spending a week or two overseas, probably in July, which is typically when we would come to the beach . And I have a particular beach house that I really like. John can appreciate this. And I got this like thought in my mind that if I don't at least book something for the beginning of the summer to sort of book up out from under us and then we won't even have any opportunity to go to my favorite beach house at my favorite beach. And so I thought to myself, well self, Apple always does the first week in June, and we're going to talk more about that in two seconds, but Apple always does the first week in June. Of course WBDC will be the first week in June. Even if I were to get an invite, I'll be home by that following weekend . No problem. There is no issue with me scheduling this the second week of June. And honestly, what I'll end up doing is I'm just going to I'm just going to cancel this and you know, rebook for later in the summer once we have a little bit clearer plans. Well, I'll give you one guess what didn't happen. We didn't rebook later in the summer. And also this is Marco's birthday week. How many birthdays have I celebrated? How many of your birthdays have I celebrated with you in WWE at WWW BC, you would think I would have thought of this, but no, I didn't. Right. Because my birthday is in the second week of June, and I think I've spent at least four of them in WWC. Right? And WWC last year was in the second week or two? Wasn't it? Failures, failures up and down and sideways . I lost a bet with myself to begin the video. I thought there was going to be some super campy, super cringe, like two dads ' moment where Turnus and Cook were going to do, you know, the passing of the torch baton, whatever. And that didn't happen at all. Turnus who? Yeah, exactly. Who is John Turnus? We don't know. He's not here. I think like the general like stage craft and mood of this video, I think had some interesting changes that I would like to kind of get on, you know, cover right up front here . Number one , the general like broad content of the video had very little , like here's what the new OS are doing. And here's a feature and here's a screenshot demo or here's something demoing them. Like it was surprisingly little of that . It was also surprisingly low on the kitchen with the exception of the Federici intro about the Mac OS name , we'll get to that. But one thing I noticed that I really liked about these, and we'll get to this more later is they included what appeared to be real time demos of all the new AI stuff , even when it was like a little bit slow and you had to wait a second. And there was like some dead air. And they would and they would show it usually with a split screen view of the presenter on the left and then their hand holding an iPhone on the right and you would see things happening in real time on that iPhone it almost felt like a live performance. Like I know it was n't but I think this bridge that gap better than any of the videos they've ever made since the COVID transition into this whole format. Like what they've done here , I think bring I think whether they meant to or not , it brought back a little bit of that humanity . I don't know if that was intentional . And I don't know if they planned to continue that or if they just wanted to show like, all right, we got kind of burned last time we showed fake AI stuff. We're gonna make sure we really are careful and show real AI stuff this time . But whatever it was, I liked that change. It felt a little bit more human, even though I know it was edited, it felt a little bit less perfect. Like you could see if the if the presenter's hand was like slightly moving, you would see that like on the split screen. One of the presenters he had an Apple Watch link bracelet and the bottom cl asp was all beaten up because it's a link bracelet that that's what happens when you have one. It's like they didn't give him a brand new one for the shots that's just obviously his watch and it's all beaten up. Like there was little like little displays of imperfection and humanity there that I have found lacking in their stuff for in a lot of ways for years . And this brought back a little hint of that. And I like that a lot. Yeah, I definitely since since Mark's already talking about the overall structure, we're just kind of the where we start this thing. We can go back to the intro video if you're watching Casey. There wasn't much to it. But yeah, that's something a lot of people have noted and have different ideas about the , you know, the reasoning behind it . The difference this year from many past years is they didn't go through the OS. So as usual, we're going to go through the keynote in the order that they did it in the keynote. And that usually means, okay, well what do they talk about first? Okay, they first they talk about MacOS and then they talk about this OS, and they just go through go through it by OS and they have to always do the dance increasingly in the past several years of being like, well whatever OS goes first gets to talk about some feature. But of course we know that feature is going to appear on all the other OS too. And so when they do the subsequent OS they'll say and of, course we have the XYZ feature, which you also saw on MacOS or whatever. Like and as they've increased the number of sort of features that are common across all their platforms, that becomes more and more weird because sometimes they don't have time to say like, all right, so is that thing on iPad OS? You talked about it in MacOS, but now you're talking about iOS and you didn't mention that thing, but you did say it's like on all your platforms. Is it not on iPad OS? And it was always very confusing. And so that's one aspect of it of like not having to do the thing where we where whichever OS goes first gets to talk about the worst part is they have an OS go second and talk about a feature that was actually in the first OS, but they didn't mention it then, and so they had to retroactively say, and by the way, even though we finished talking about MacOS, this feature is in MacOS too, but we didn't want to talk about it until IPad OS. Weird stuff they've been doing for years. So that awkwardness was gone here. And the other thing is if you have a year, like I think this year where you don't have a lot of new stuff , if you were to go OS by OS , you'd kind of run out of stuff really fast. Either you'd have to again intentionally delay stuff where you're like, okay, I'm not going to talk about the stuff on this OS I'm going to save it for IOS because that's our big one, even though it's on all the OS or you'd talk about everything on the first few OSs and then the last couple of them you'd be like, They have the stuff the other ones have . And it would be weird. So I can just see them in the meeting going, how are we going to do this? We don't have any hardware, which spoiler, no hardware and spoiler, I said before, no turnus. No hardware, no turnus . They come as a package deal. Yeah . So it's just going to be software. And we do have things to talk about, but do we have enough that we really want to go through? It's like the old adage about don't organize your presentation around your org chart of your company? Yeah, your company has a v ice president of whatever and a vice president of whatever and a vice president of whatever, but when you're telling your story to the public, they don't care what your internal company organization is. And it's not like Apple is exposing its internal organization because their OS are in fact products like, custom er facing products, right? But they're also categorically like, if you're Apple, you really care about the different OSs that you have. But if you're a customer, you're like, I just buy Apple stuff and it works together . And so I can't decide whether this is the format they're going to go with entirely moving forward or they're going to revert to when we have tons of stuff to talk about, we're going to go OS by OS again. But this year they did not go OS by OS. They didn't even just they went, well, we'll get to the structure in a second, they went through weirdly named categories of stuff. And each one of those categories they talked about all their products and all their services and all their OSs that have anything to do with that category of thing . I saw some people think that say that they thought it was boring to have that structure, but I see the problem it's solving, kind of like the redesign of system settings in MacOS, which I dislike, but I see the problem it's sol ving and I see the ways that it solved it. And so that's my take on their structure here. I didn't I see what Mark is saying about the humanity. Like we'll talk about that when we get to the live demo things later, but I did think I don't know the cinematography, the appearance, the editing of this one was a little bit different than past years and maybe a little bit more human. It's still a little bit inhumane things look a little bit too perfect, but I do get a little bit of like the look more like they're in real places a couple of shots like I think Josh standing in front of the reflecting pool thing was a little bit overlit, but otherwise I, think it's it was very polished and it was, let's say, an innovative structure to fit what they had to say. Yeah, I mean, I've been trying to think about this video and again, I know I'm being cagey about it, but my afternoon has been upside down ins andide out in a good way or mostly good ways. But I don't know, I feel like I both loved and hated this WWDC. I'm hated strong, but I really enjoyed it and also left feeling like okay in that they did the thing that we've all myself included long asked them to do, which is to say they didn't throw a whole pile of spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks, or at least I don't really view it that way. They didn't go in three hundred different directions. Most importantly, for my personal preferences, they didn't, at least in the keynote, we'll get to the state of the Union maybe another day, but they didn't ram AI down our throats and you can do AI for this because you can. Neil, there was very little of that. It was more of what I expect from Apple, what I like from Apple, which is, hey, we are leveraging AI to do the following cool crap on your behalf, which is great. That's what I want. And so the keynote was in a way a little bit boring. Like if I think back to prior keynotes, you're getting all these new whizbank features, all this new stuff that's like brand new and you never even considered and amazing and I'm fully in the reality distortion field. And this one it was like, yeah, okay, so you did all the things you should have done ten years ago, which on the one side , that should be commended because they should have done those things ten years ago, five years ago, whatever. But on the other side, afterwards, it was like , okay , like, I'm not sure what to be super duper excited about, you know what I mean? And that's unusual for me , but broadly, I don't have any specific complaints about it. And I thought the video, to Marco's point, I couldn't agree with Marco More, felt way more human. And I think them leaning into these kind of uncomfortable pauses while they're letting Siri churn on the things that Sirius churn on, I think that was good and I would argue necessary because that shows us no this is really how or it sure seems to indicate anyw ay, this is really happening. These things are really happening on device. This is not a fake, this is not a mock up. And generally speaking, I feel like those pauses were way too long, especially for a recorded video, but again, I agree with Marco that I think that was actually a benefit or a feature rather than a bug, you know what I mean? Yeah, because in many of these areas , Apple has had a credibility problem . So it was extra important for them to lean into the fact that like, no, look this time , what we are what we are showing off and what we are claiming to be able to do , this time it works, you know, we swear pinky promise and we actually still don't don't know if that's true or not . Time will tell . But so far, like almost everything they demoed today was, you know, at the core level, it was like, well, here's here's a technology that we 've promised in the past could be pretty good and it wasn't. Or we weren't able to deliver what we said we were going to deliver , or in some way there was some kind of disappointment about it. This time they're saying we improved lots of things all over the place, which I'm actually very excited about if that is at all true. And so far , you know, it seems like it seems pretty credible so far. So we'll see how that goes. But we've improved a bunch of everything all over the place . And also all that AI stuff that we've been talking about that we promised two years ago and then kind of just whistled and walked away from some of it is back . We kind of went in a few different directions, but some of it is here and other stuff got better too, and here's some more stuff you can do and better stuff you can use . And here it is it works this time. Oh, Siri also allegedly works this time . Like okay, if that is actually true , that's huge because that's what we've wanted. We've wanted a Siri that works. We've wanted an OS that gets incrementally better. We wanted a new design that was less crappy than Liquid Glass's first attempt. All of these like, you know, areas that we've actually really been wanting and hoping for , they claim to have delivered on those without adding too many like brand new whizbang , you know, things that really make for a good keynote. So it kind of seemed like a boring keynote in some ways , but I actually kind of wanted to reframe it not as boring but as refreshing because what they're actually doing is delivering what we've been wanting and what they've had trouble delivering. So here they're taking another attempt . I it so far it looks it looks like it's going in the right direction. We'll see how it shakes out throughout the summer and fall, but this is this is exactly what I was hoping they would do . Yeah, yeah, that's really well put. And Kirin Heley in the chat distilled my earlier rambling into just perfectly. Kirin said, people say they want a bug fix or snow leopard release , but they get bored when they get one. And that's what I'm like struggling with was like, you know, normally I leave these keynotes just so freaking jazzed. And this time I was like, yeah, okay, cool. You know, since you two are giving your final judgments now at the top of the show for some unknown reason. This is where the conversation to have, John. I'm sorry, Dad. Anyway, I'll give mine, which is I was more excited after the end of this keynote than I was last year, not even a contest. Like this is the most excited I've been about WWC in a long time. Now, part of that is because they made things terrible. And then when you make things terrible and back it out, you feel better about it. So it's kind of cheating. I guess I will talk more about that later , but that's how I feel about it. It's for the reasons you said I'll go into more detail as we get through the event because we do have a lot to go through, but that's my overall impression, which that's just me personally. I can understand why some people might have been disappointed that they didn't go OS by OS. People were disappointed that they concentrated so much on the things they concentrated on and didn't talk about the things that they wanted to hear about. Why people disappointed that they weren't dazzled like Casey said, Show me the cool thing, show me this amazing thing that I couldn't have ever dreamed of . That wasn't this presentation and I understand why people feel the way, but I personally was very excited by what I saw and it gave me good old nostalgic WWC feelings, but we should actually move on to the presentation. Yes, indeed. Just the overall structure , and we'll get to these a piece at a time was three things, only three , platform improvements, trust and safety, and Apple intelligence and Siri . When I saw the first one, I'm like, okay, they're going to talk about all their platforms there. Trust and safety. I'm like, what are they going to talk about there? We'll find out. And then obviously Apple intelligence and Siri, we knew what they were going to talk about there and we were not surprised. But first , the crack marketing team appears. Yes. So first we had the crack marketing team . I've always enjoyed these. Sometimes it's easier to enjoy than others. This one was a little harder for me to enjoy, but overall I did still enjoy it. And they had a very cute Volkswagen Bus animation, although interestingly the original one, not the new electric version. Well, because the new one's massive, I think it wouldn't have worked quite as well. I don't know. But either way, they've concluded on the new name for MacOS, which is MacOS Golden Gate, which I think is reasonable, and I'm not surprised they used it. It was, I think they maybe let this segment go on a touch longer than it really needed to, but overall, I always find these to be kind of silly and fun. And it brings a little bit of humor and silliness to an otherwise very serious, very buttoned up presentation. I thought it was great when Jos leans out of the van and says it's Golden Gate. They landed it. In the beginning of the animations and the swooping and the silliness, it was very silly, but it was also short. And he just drives by in the bus, leans out the door. It's Golden Gate, man, sure. Although Golden Gate does sound like a code name rather than a public name, but whatever, you know, it's a California name . So we continue to rumble on. All right, so let's start with platform improvements. And this, I don't know if this was literally the first things Craig said, probably not. But early on, he said the following and we tried to make this a verbatim quote, we may not have it exactly right. But anyway, Craig said, our products are an integral part of daily life. So naturally, we all have high expectations for them. And we're always challeng ing ourselves to make our products ever more responsive, ever more reliable, even more reliable, excuse me, and that much more delightful to use. So instead of just introducing a host of new features, we're also taking the features you already rely on and making them even better because we believe the best operating systems aren't just built on big breakthroughs, they're built on sweating the details. So if you speak Apple speak , this is where Apple is saying, We're sorry we made a bunch of bad decisions last time and we're going to fix them this time and we're going to regroup and fix a bunch of our crap before we go forward with a bunch of new features. Now and you're like, how can you read that into that? That's not what they said at all. You have to be able to read between the lines. This is as close as Apple will ever get in the modern era to doing what they used to do occasionally, which was basically say, our last thing sucked. We're sorry, we're fixing it. They don't say that directly anymore. In the Steve Jobs time, they did say that or imply that or you know, like, they were much more blunt , but the modern Tim Cook Apple does not admit fault in that way. This is how they admit fault by saying we need to slow down. We need to fix our crap . We did some bad things and we're going to regroup . Are they gonna say as we've discussed in the past es? Oh, no new features, snow leopard. No, the sentence, the key sentence here is so instead of just introducing a host of new features, we're also taking the features that already rely on making them even better. So they're not just introducing new features because they're like we're of course introducing new features. Don't let anyone say that we're not introducing new features. We're introducing new features, but we're not just introducing new features , we're also fixing our crap, taking the features you already rely on and making them even better. That is Apple marketing speak for fixing our past mistakes. And they do this every year where they introduce new features and fix past mistakes, right? But they don't always have a paragraph at the front of the keynote like addressing the audience and saying, you know , they can't all be years where we make a bunch of big new features. Sometimes we have to fix our crap and that's what they're doing, you know? And the way they spin it is the best operating systems aren't just built on big breakthroughs. They're also about sweating the details. And this is such a positive spin about like we use them so much and we have high expectations for them. We're always challenging ourselves to make them better and more responsive . It's a little bit annoying to hear him dancing around these points in this way, but this is the directest modern app will ever get at saying, We're sorry , we did some bad stuff. We're fixing it . Thank you for bearing with us. Yeah. And this began with Subum Kedia, I think. Anyway, the director of human interface saying, We take a bold leap forward and then we continue to iterate. You know, then a few other words. Our team really appreciates your feedback. Yeah, this is the same of like this is their version of saying, Hey, remember when we did IY seven, everyone hated it and we rolled it back? Well, that's just the way things work. And we're out here saying no, it doesn't have to work that way. You cannot launch something that is horrendously bad and then fix it . You know, we had this past discussion when Lookooglass came out like sometimes it is good to just be bold with the first version, but there's being bold and there's doing stuff that everybody's telling you is a terrible idea and then saying, you know what? You were right. That was a terrible idea. Let's fix it. You know, this so is an even more direct addressing liquid glass directly and saying, thank you for your feedback. We appreciate your feedback. And you know, this is just what we always do. We try it and then we listen to your feedback and then we iterate and we're like, We're not entirely happy with this process, but go on . I noticed like one of the phrases they used was that they were going to, quote, reincorporate some of the cornerstones of Mac design . It's like in other words , we will somehow remember how to make door handles. Yeah. Our parlance like things we used to know . Yeah , we will remember again. Yeah. And this was, you know, so kicking off the whole like liquid glass, you know, basically one point one kind of design . I think this is about as much as I would expect for a one year correction. Like I was obviously I would like for it to be even more changed. And what I hope happens, like you mentioned a minute ago, you know, the IOS seven thing, IOS seven changed a lot during its beta over that summer before it was released to the public. Liquid glass didn't. Liquid Glass hardly changed at all. Or rather it hovered around a central point instead of making any progress in any particular direction. Right. And then it ended up shipping almost exactly what was in beta one. It was a little bit different, but it didn't like they kept going what, about this way?? What about this one They ended up really close to where they started. It was Yeah, so what Liquid Glass ended up shipping was very much like the butterfly keyboard gasket. It's like, okay, well, we didn't really fix any of the really fundamental problems about this. We just put a couple of band aids on and ship it. So what they've done this year so far, it looks like they have put a few larger bandages on it . One of the core thing that they showed is like now there's a slider for going wherever you want in like you know you can have it be super clear all the way to totally frosted. It's like okay , if your design needs that , it's a bad design. And I'm glad that they gave me that because I'm going to put it all the way to the right, but I think that that's them kind of weaseling out of making a choice and the right choice is frosted like unquestionably , but they can't quite admit that to themselves or they can't quite convince whoever to do it to actually go for ward, it solves so many of the problems and that's why they had to add it. And like the fact that they had to add it shows this design does not work universally . And there's a way to make it work universally . And when you put it all the way to the right, it still looks like a modern, nice, sleek design. It doesn't turn it back to IOS eighteen . Like, it still looks nice and new . It just solves a lot of the problems, but they can't yet admit that their cool concept of blobby glass with reflections refractions and reflections and all these like, they can't quite admit that like that's too it's too polarizing and it's too whatever the opposite of versatile is like it does not work well in enough conditions of content to be the default look or to be the universal look of the system theme . They can't bring themselves to say that. So instead they not only like normally they would have solved this in the past with a checkbox. Now it's a slider because now they're saying really can't decide. We're going to give all of the control to you which to a certain kind of nerd , we love that control and we want that kind of control . But for Apple to say our system design needs this level of user control because we can't make the decision for you that's actually universal . That to me says that's a weakness of the design. If they have to ship that level of a control , that's not a good design and that's not like a confident design decision. You know, I don't disagree with anything you've said, but another way to look at this and I don't know if I'm if I believe what I'm about to tell you or not, but another way of looking at it is it's flexible. It can flex from what were the two terms they used ultra clear to fully tinted. And I tend to think you're probably right, Marco that really the better answer would have been to put a line in the sand and stick with it or change where that line is drawn if it's wrong. But I do think there is something to commend in the fact that it is flexible enough to be if you have incredible eyesight and don't mind the transparency. You can make it super duper clear, or if you're anything like us three old men, you can make it super du,per translucent rather or tinted, I guess I should say instead. Well, see , that's the thing. Like if you're hearing this and think, oh, so you're saying any kind of setting in an interface shows it's a bad interface, that's not where we're getting at all. And with your point about flexibility, Casey, I would ask flexibility in what metric, like as in , you know, flexibility is where you can adapt to different scenarios. Most of the time the way Apple handle flexib ility is back in the olden days, they would make an OS, they work for most people , and they would have accessibility options that allowed it to be adapted . And that's flexibility. Okay, well what if what if I can't see small text? Well, you can make a text bigger. What if I have a problem with motion? It makes me motion sick, well you can reduce motion. What if any transparency confuses my vision? You can turn on a reduce transparency, right? But that was the whole idea. Make one that works for most people and then have accessibility options to adjust. This is make one that most people that doesn't work well for most people. Give them a slider and the slider doesn't slide from works what does it slide to works for even fewer people versus works for slightly more. No one wants to slide the slider to works for even fewer people. Like that's not flexibility no one needs that degree like in the metrics like can you give me a slider that makes the interface worse and harder to use? I mean, on the flip side of that is, well, what if it looks cooler? This is a slider that does make it look more cool or whatever . But you know, I don't think that's a unless you're going to give full themeability to people, which they kind of did with the themed icons on the IOS home screen and stuff. That slider is not full themeability. It is just this one known problematic aspect of our design that makes it difficult for most people to use and it makes the design the opposite of what Art Margaret was saying makes the design more fragile, makes it not work in a lot of circumstances . We gave you a slider for that. And I feel like the only settings for that slider are default, whatever it ships at, which is what most people are going to use , all the way to the right, which is make it usable by more people. And any other setting is like, why bother? The default is no one touches it and that is what it is. All the way to the right is as good as you can make it before going to accessibility . And any value between or on the left or right of that is like what's the point of that? Like can you even see the visual difference of it being seventy five percent to the right or twenty five percent to the left, like it's just pretty subtle. And like, yeah, that's the thing. Like it's not notched . It's just like a fully fluid. You can set it at seventeen percent . Why? And it's kind of like some of the other settings they have in the US, like the key repeat rate and stuff where the main problem with settings like that is people find that the far right or far left in some cases doesn't go far enough. So they on the Mac you would, hack it with a PLIS thing to say I want the key repeat rate to be even faster so you just set it to a value because the slider doesn't go that far. So this is this is real a real punt for them because it's not giving you adjustability that expands the range of scenarios where it can work. This slider can reduce the range of scenarios where it works. And when you go to the right, it can expand it. And as far right as it goes, I'd be happy for it to go even farther. So hopefully that slider will be gone at some point like they're working toward. I feel like they're working towards getting people acclimated to the idea that you can't see through everything. And again, it gets back to the root idea of seeing stuff through the controls is not a good idea. It is not beneficial in any way except for aesthetically and that is subjective. Like there's no benefit to being able to see it like again they showed like oh what if I got a horizontal slider in the music app and it slides into the sidebar you can still see it through the sidebar. Why? Why do I want to see it? I can't read it through the sidebar. I can see that something is back there. Maybe if I memorize the color of the album cover, I might know what album is, but like, what good does that do me? Like it doesn't, it's not useful and that's for a huge sidebar. Forget about things like toolbars or tiny buttons, you know, showing anything through controls is a bad idea because it makes the controls harder to read and doesn't provide any benefit to the user. And that is the root sin of Liquid Glass and they haven't actually repented from that entirely, but they have done a bunch of stuff to mitigate it. Yeah, and like some of the things they've done, like they have the , you know, now when you scroll a bar, or when you scroll content under a toolbar or a navigation bar, which I don't know if you've ever used anything before. It's a pretty common pattern . Now a frosted bar appears behind the bar to visually separate it a little bit from the content . Oh my god. I think the bar is there all the time, isn't it? No. Not when it's at the very top . Well, I guess technically, you might not see it, but I think I think it fades not to try out, but yes, they rediscovered bar. You know what might be good appearance for a toolbar, a bar? It's right in the name. Like, why do they forget this? They were so they were so in love the idea of things floating on top of content, which again is a bad idea. And so they're walking it back in a they went farther than I thought they would do. So first of all, the bar on Mac OS , that's, you know, it's an actual bar. Now, granted, it's a translucent bar, but you can turn that slider up so it becomes a slightly less translucent bar and a little bit better. And that solves a lot of problems with the interface. And if you, you know, actually purposefully make the bar, you can choose to make the bar look attractive . Their way of making the bar look attractive is we still have to have the content show through it because in all their demos, some beautiful colorful image is behind it. Instead of what's actually going to be behind it, which is something that is not beautifully colorful and consistent across the width of the bar, but is instead like one giant red square from a web page or something. Or just makes your toolbar look insane because it looks normal and then there's a big red blotch and you're like, why is that button red? Oh it's not red. There's some crap behind it. Like that problem still exists. In their demos, they make it look like a feature, but it's still a bug that the bar is translucent in this way. And I guess you could turn around reduced parency and turn off entirely. But hey, the bar at least solve the proble m of where does the content end and the bar begin? Now, you know, again, the content still is technically behind the bar. Some day the bar may turn opaque again and we have sanity restored to our interfaces where there is content and there is controls and they are separated from each other. Imagine that. But until that day, things are getting better, thumbs up for the bar. Yeah. So quickly within MacOS and some of these are also applicable on iPad. Sidebars now expand all the way to the leading edge of the window. If you think about it, they were there , they were inset just a little bit. I don't know. They were floating above. Right, for no reason. Sidebars were floating above the content because everything floats above the content. You take content and you just drop crap on top of it. This is my favorite feature of the entire keynote. I could not believe they did this. I hated it so much when they did it. I'm like, well, they're not going to change that because it's a cornerstone of liquid glass. Terrible idea. I hated it since day one. They actually undid it. Thank God. Then they had to go to the next slide say, but don't worry. Sidebars are still translucent and then your stuff can still edge because the margins just ate up space for no reason. They made the window like incoherent for like visual hierarchy wise because like the toolbar but fltoons ating over the content. Okay, there are buttons, they float over. Why is the sidebar floating? Why is it floating inside? It was just it was so bad. So thank God for that. My favorite feature by far. Yeah . And it's funny, like they keep , you know, one of the things that's also in this area too is like they fixed the corner radius of the windows. Now MacOS window corner radius like in Tahoe , there was like the default system radius and that's like, you know, new windows or new API apps would have that. But then like oh no, we've said this on the shows many times people get confused about it. You know what gave you the really, really big corner radius in Tahoe . Having a tool bar, and yes, being compiled in my stick, having a tool bar. And no one ever guesses that because it doesn't make any sense. Why should the existence of a toolbar in the window determine all four corners of the But it did. That's how it worked. The big corner radius was any window that had a toolbar and was compiled with a new SDK, right? And it was a liquid glass adopting app that had a toolbar. Apps that had hide show toolbar, hiding the toolbar would change all four corners of the corner radius on the window when you hit the toolbar. They would go back to be smaller. And then so that's two. That was Tahoe, you know, liquid glass with a toolbar, roundest. Liquid glass without a toolbar, less round. And then there was not liquid glass, the setting that says don't adopt a new appearance or whatever, which was the old default macOS fifteen thing. You had at least three corner radiuses on Tahoe, and there was a couple more corner radiuses because of like custom windows and stuff. So yes, that's nothing I didn't expect them to do, not because it's difficult to do. It's very easy to do. I just didn't think they would do it, but they did. And their, you know, applause, I'm sure they got applause in the room feature is just make the corner radius the same at every window in MacOS and also by the way make, that value be smaller than the stupid Tahoe toolbar one. I still think it's maybe a little bit over rounded because if you're seeing an image, you're missing those little pixels that are on the corner. But than goodness, consistency has returned. Sidebars go to the edge, every window has a same corner radius, that corner radius is smaller. Yeah, and it seems, I'm just eyeballing it. I have it on my laptop here . It looks like it now matches the corner radius of a Mac laptop screen. So if that's true because if not, it's very close. But if that's true, that makes some sense. You know what the corner radius does not match? The radius of the toolbar buttons. You're right. Concentricity is dead, baby. It does not it does not. Why they did it? Oh wow. Because that's what when you had a toolbar and like they had the around it corners of concentricity. It was the whole idea of like you know if you draw you make a central point and then draw the radius that be the and edge' ofll the toolbar button and you keep going out farther and that is the radius that is the edge of the window. And I think it's fine mostly, but like this is one of the cornerstones of their I'm making everything sort of capsule shaped with like semicircular corners. And to make that look nice, it's like, well, we need to have that radius, you know, as you go farther from the button, the radius of it needs to match. Concentricity is what they called it, right? And if you have, you know, rectilinear toolbar buttons, you don't have that problem, but they don't. So they kept the lipid glass semicircular end cap toolbar buttons, but they also made every window have the same corner radius on the Mac and that corner radius be smaller, which means that it no longer matches the toolbar radius. And so I'm sure Allen Di hates it. And when I look at it, I see it's slightly larmonious, but I don't care because practically speaking, I want to see more of my content and I don't want seventeen different corner radiuses on my windows on my Mac. Yeah, I mean, I think part of any design is you have like the theory, the principles and the theories that you're trying to achieve, but then at some point reality has a conflict with those. There's some trade off you have to make where you have to sacrifice some of the purity of your goals and principles for just pragmatic reasons or there's some conflict somewhere that arises. Or you have to think that this goal I was trying to achieve was not a good goal. Well, right, because the goal of concentricity is it looks nice and it is visually geometrically pleasing. But what is the purpose of Windows? What is the purpose of a user interface? The purpose of Windows and a user interface is to present content and controls so people can use software. The purpose is not to look amazing in screenshots and for you to be able to draw little circles on stuff and say look how the corner raises, but it has a job. Design is how it works. And so if you say like, oh, I have to compromise my design, well, remind me again why you were so dead set on these semicircular end caps on toolbar buttons. They waste space and they don't look good unless you overly round the corners. And so we say, oh you have to you have to back off from your purity of des ign. Your design was not to an end that was benefiting the user. It was benefiting you because it made you feel good in screenshots, but that doesn't benefit the user. So thank God they've backed that out. And now they have this awkward design where they kept the toolbar buttons because it's hard to change them that radically. You're not going to make everything square edge at this point, but they fixed the windows . So now they have this hodgepodge where it no longer looks good. We're still wasting a little bit of space in toolbar buttons, but at least they've gone in a pragmatic direction. It seems every change they've made, it seems to me that whoever used to be there who was not letting them make this obvious change is now gone or has changed their mind. Yeah, I mean maybe this is a Steven Lemay thing, maybe it was getting rid of Alan Dying, maybe it's somebody else, but whoever maybe it's because one half like now is winning the argument with the like the court of public opinion swaying the inside people, okay, we agree . We were wrong to try that. Let's let's back it off a little bit but we still have to wait three or four more years for them to do a new design that is actually both internally harmonious and actually designed well and useful for its purpose. Yeah, I mean, what we have here is on the Mac, what we have is that is that has been edited. Again, it's like a one point one . It has been tweaked. The tweaks that they've made are largely good, but the foundations of it are still weird and not really f itting in the platform as well as they could. But that being said, I did one of the things I noticed in my first few minutes of poking around on Golden Gate on my laptop , one of the first things I noticed was this new button style , like where they where it's like a little bit like glossier, a little more polished. There's a border around some of the buttons . It actually looks a little bit like they're reinventing Aqua. Like it's it's a newer, you know, planer version of Aqua it's the Crystal Pepsi version of Aqua. But it is it is getting closer to Aqua very it's and like the buttons that they have now , the tweak to that is not subtle. You won't like if you out there haven't seen Golden Gate yet, the minute you start using it, you're going to notice, wow, the buttons are really like the toolbar buttons and all the window s really stand out now in a way they didn't before. And it almost like it looks a little out of place . It looks kind of like alright, the toolbar buttons before, we wanted to show off our glassiness so well that we made them too glassy and then nobody could really see anything. Now the problem was nobody could see them well enough. So we took our glass and just turned it up like we made it louder in the interface like visually louder . And so what we have now is now the toolbar buttons are like a little bit too like they stand out a little bit too much now. Yeah, they have a little bit of the speculative highlights and stuff. Although Aqua is a great example. Think of Aqua was so internally consistent. It also by the way, had buttons that had semicircular end caps , but it was all simulated, static, glossy, looks like it looks like a translucent cylinder of blue , you know, clear blue plast ic or something or clear blue glass. Nothing behind them ever showed through those buttons. They were one hundred percent opaque. And the corners of the windows in Aqua tack sharp exact squares on the bottom corner radiuses because the toolbar had corner radiuses because no content was in the title bar rather. The title bar had corner radiuses because no content was in the title bar. Title bars were opaque except for when the window was in the background in which case they showed through the desktop, not the content behind them. And the bottom corners were squares. So you could see so the content area had sharp corners. So you could see every pixel of the content in like the preview app or whatever in MacOS ten point zero , but the buttons had circular end caps on them. How do they make that design work? They did that from day one and they said this is what's going to look like and our buttons are going to look like pieces of glass and our windows are going to have pinstripes and sharp like it was such a more coherent sensible design than the Hodgewatch we have now. And I think what you're noticing Marko is like, how do we band aid these buttons? We still want them to look glassy, but they have to be more opaque and people can't see the edges of them. So let's put a darker outline around them. It's almost like they're taking accessib ility options and making the like making them the default because bordered buttons is accessibility option. And but what you get by default in Golden Gate is like slightly bordered buttons because they were hard to see and they can't, you know, they can't fix the design entirely because the design of Aqua, you know, had like the buttons stood out so much from the background . These buttons didn't, and they had to make them stand out a little bit while still being glassy. Anyway, we'll probably have more to say about this once we start loading the OS Marco has used a little bit. I haven't even loaded it yet because I'm still working on a release in some of my apps and I need to keep this machine at Tahoe, my other dev machine. But yeah, and the final thing we'll try to do quickly, icons are off by default in menus . Incredible, incredible. I'm surprised surprised they walked back. We've talked about it in past shows. I don't think icons in menus are actually a terrible idea, but their implementation of it was terrible. And so they've just said, nevermind, it's a setting, it is off by default, which doesn't mean there's no icons in menus, but I guess the setting is, hey, if in MacOS fifteen, if there was an icon in the menu, there will still be in this mode. When you turn them on, all the other icons appear, but I feel like this is them basically admitting defeat and saying developers don't want to add these to the degree they existed in twenty six . We're going to leave it off by default then eventually I assume that switch will go away and those icons will just be gone. Are they is it a user setting or is it just a developer API thing where you can say as a developer, this item needs a label or an icon? I thought it was a user setting, but I can't find it. I thought it was an API set or an API thing, not a setting, but an API. It is at least also an API thing. The only other thing I'll mention is the so in this socibars now on the Mac . They they got their accent color back for I was going to bring this up , which is first of all great. You notice it immediately. And yes, it helps a lot because as it turns out , using multiple factors to distinguish things that matter in a user interface , you know, don't just use shapes , use colors also. Imagine if you could have different color icons. Imagine that. We don't have the technology yet, sorry. Right. The more you can, you know, communicate with people with different visual cues, the easier it is to use these things typically. But the one thing they did, so they obviously also had to solve the problem of it being difficult to determine what the current selection is. So what they've done is because in Allen Dy's design world contrast is the enemy . And so what has indicated the selection so far has been in the extremely light colored sidebar, the currently selected item has a extremely light colored box around it . So what they've done in Golden Gate , it still is a very light colored sidebar with a very light colored box around the selected item . But now font of the selected item's text is bold . Now this I see what they're going for. They're going for make it easier to distinguish. The problem is when text is bold, it gets wider . And so now you have the selected item changing its size as the selection changes. This is not the approach . Just have a higher cont rast selection state. For God's sake, we've solved this so many times in interfaces. They can't solve everything. Someone's out there saying but we could do the thing that we know it works, but let's think of something else. And they won that argument. But here's overall though. With these design tweaks, what I want to see, I mentioned earlier that IOS seven changed a lot during its beta period and liquid glass did not. I'm hoping this year with this new kind of, you know, listening to feedback and fixing problems kind of approach and with a lot less Alan Dye in the organization, I'm hoping that this will all be like a little bit tweakable during the course of this summer and fall. Hopefully they take feedback. They see that this is a pretty good one point one rough draft. I think it can be tweaked to be even better. I think they will hear that from a lot of people. And hopefully this is, again, a rough draft , not their new design team saying, all right, this time we got it a hundred percent right and we're not going to change any of this stuff. One other quick thing they did is they gave us glass effects in the icons, which is useful, I think, because that's one place you might want the cool effects The icon composer gives you more previews of how it's going to look in twenty six and twenty seven, which is useful because they changed how it looks. And then the final thing is I don't know what the story of this in IOS is. I haven't installed the betas, but on MacOS as far as I can tell from people screenshot and reporting on it . In Tahoe , the well on the phone when you look at your home screen in IOS twenty six and you like tilt your phone around, it changes where like the light highlight, like the specular highlight around the edges of the icon is. Like it changes that as you tilt the phone to try to show it's like glinting off the icons . And MacOS, I don't think of an laptops use it, but on a desktop Mac, the desktop map is not being tilted ideally while you're using it unless you're on a boat, I guess . And so they had to pick a light direction for the icons in Tahoe, and they picked essentially forty five degrees coming from the upper left going down to the lower right. And so the icons would have a glean on their upper left corner and a little glean on their lower right corner . In twenty seven , they have changed it so there is so it's from top to bottom. The light hits the top of the icon and puts a little glint on it and then also puts a little glint on the bottom edge, which I think looks a little bit less awkward and a little bit nicer, but just FYI, the light has moved good to know . All right, so then they talked about how they are optimizing the parts of the system that make a big difference in the performance of our products. And this includes things that they can just tweak timing on like animations, but also they genuinely made things faster. They said thirty percent launch improve ments on iOS and iPadOS for launching apps because they're preloading data and they didn't say much more than that . They also talked about one of the things that drives me freaking crazy , which is when you take a picture and it doesn't get sucked into the photo library vortex for like thirty seconds, sixty seconds. So you take a picture, immediately want to send it to say, I immediately want to send it to Erin or something like that. And I'm waiting and waiting and waiting for Godfreaking knows what, but waiting for whatever needs to happen to happen. And they specifically called that out and said it should be seventy percent faster. They said a bunch of yesterday camera app we know you can tap on it in the camera app. The reason I do that is for the reason Casey said is if you don't tap on it when you see it in the camera app, you're going to have to go to the Photos app to find it and that's where you're going to be waiting. Yep . They said a whole bunch of other things for faster'.re We not going to enumerate them all . They also said that network transitions are going to be better, so it's more seamless to go from cellular to wifi or vice versa. Also, another change that is so obvious once they made it , but it never occurred to me . Instead of getting a like global or maybe not global, but a conversation global indicator of sending data in an iMessage, you know, where at the top under the contact's name or whatever, you'll see the little blue bar. Now you'll get a little blue bar per message. Imagine that my mind is blown. You're gonna get one per message. I'm being snarky but like genuinely this will be very useful because so often I'll be in like a grocery if I feel like this only happens in grocery stores and I actually don't go into grocery stores often, but for whatever reason on the rare occasions I do , I will try to send Erin a picture of something and be like, Hey, is this specifically what you meant? And I'm just waiting. And then I will try to describe with text what I'm looking at because the pictures and going through and then that's held up behind the photo it seems like that is all going to get way better, which I'm super excited. And speaking of scheduling things, you skipped over this before because we don't have any deals, but they didn't mention they didn't mention the CPU scheduler and they talked about what devices is going to run on. And they did not provide any information to really let you know what is different about the scheduler, but they think it's better. So stay tuned for that in future episodes. I mean, who had CPU scheduler on their bingo card for the keynote? Yeah. That's state of the Union, maybe. Yeah. So this is the platform improvement section. They did design, which is like, hey, look who lasts for trying to fix some part of it. And then they do the part that honestly should be and this kind of is, but should really be in every single keynote or at least every single WWC, which is things that exist we made them better. And most of the time in the good WWCs they do this, but this section was just about , oh, there's stuff that exists. Could it be faster? Yeah, we think it can. We let people spend the year trying to make a bunch of stuff faster and better. The network transitions is not a speed thing, even though it's listed here, it's like it's an aspect of your device and it could be better. So we made it better and we'll tell you about it. And they should do that every single year. And I think they do it every single year very often doesn't make it into the keynote, but I'm glad it got its own section here. And they kept going. There's more of the stuff. Like the next one was search, which is like, we know our search kind of sucks sometimes. And we know users don't understand why . And we're going to say some vague stuff that's saying, We rebuilt the foundation of search. We don't know what that means yet, but all we know is, hey, search has been kind of crappy. Like the when the Spotlight Index doesn't update or when the Spotlight Indexer goes crazy and kills your Mac or when you try to search for something on your phone and it doesn't find or it gets corrupted and you have to restore your phone. We don't know the details of what the problem is, but I think everyone has experienced bad search on Apple devices. So them coming in the keynote and saying, We've rebuilt the foundation of search and we've architected the search index . Cautiously thumbs up because the old one was bad, so I hope the new one is good . I hope so. I mean, so I will, you know , so part one of this is , yes , I believe what they what they have said in their coded way was we rebuilt like the whole like MDS worker stat, like the whole like spotlight database index thing. Like that has been historically fragile and you've had to do a lot of really weird things. In fact, just recently, Craig Hawkinberry blogged about how if your spotlight index gets corrupt on an iOS device, you basically can't rebuild it. You have to like restore the phone or something like that. It's it's a terrible situation to be in and there's like no recovery process. And that's why you can easily Google for like how do I rebuild the spotlight in next from the command line of my Mac? That's easy to find. You know why that's easy to find? Because it's a thing that Mac users occasionally have to do and have since the advent of spotlight, and that's not a reliable system. And that's another example of a system that's like, well, you rolled this out, and I'm sure you've changed it over the years, but it's certainly not getting better and it certainly seems like it's getting worse. Let's just hope this isn't another was it MDNS resp onder whatever the thing with they rewrote a major component of MacOS and then it worked discovery d. Yeah, it worked so much worse than the old one they had to roll it back. Let's hope that's not the case here, but on keynote day where I'm willing to believe that the new one is going to be better and I'm looking forward to it because this is a part of this is a part of all their platforms that needed to be improved. So thumbs up. I will say though the other part of this though is so what they said was that that you know when you first run any new twenty seven OS , it basically will reindex everything in your computer . And that is so far from what I can tell on my laptop, that is not only true, but also about an hour after I installed it, I ran a disk space. So beats. And now so I deleted a couple of empty the trash, deleted a couple of quick files that I had time for right before the show. And I have a finder window open and I'm just I have the status bar showing on the bottom. Who's watching the space go down. I'm just watching it like tick down like ten megabytes every few seconds, or one hundred megabytes every few seconds. Like it's like fifty two point five seven gigs and fifty two point five three gigs. Like it's just fifty two point five, like , just going down as I'm talking , just watching it fill my disc again. So I don't know. I haven't had time to check, but presumably that is the reindexing process, like slowly building up an index somewhere on disc. Or it could be a bug that's just filling your disc with garbage. But the good news is SS is really cheap right now. So yeah, right, yeah. It's a good thing that they're all upgradable in Apple laptops. Right. Exactly. Oh, that's a good point. All right, I'm going to try to pick up the pace and it's not going to work, but I'm going to try this is, I think, the second feature of John's keynote. The more I think about this, actually, this really was your keynote. I'm excited about it. Yep . So you got your liquid glass refinements, which we all knew you would. But now you've got another new feature, full Resot Posh in shared albums. A miracle. I didn't even know they could they do that? Do they have the technology to provide full resolution photos? You would think not, considering shared photo albums were introduced so long ago that they reduced res like made sense from a bandwidth and like storage space perspective. That was a long time ago. Thank goodness. Full rez photos and also Windows and Android people can join in. So you can actually use shared albums to share an album without any of the caveats. The caveats used to be, well, of course you can't see these unless you have a phone. Although there was a web view which was crappy and those people didn't feel like they were really participating because they have to go to some crappy webpage. And I don't even know if that's still supported. And the other caveat was, but of course, you can't actually share photos because what if someone wants that photo? You're like, Oh, can you give me that photo? I'll send you the full re version because the shared album ones were reduced RES . And I mean, I know most people don't care because kids take screenshots of photos and that's how they share photos. But like, honestly, it's just, it's embarrassing. Full rest photos and share albums. Thank goodness, happy about that. Yep, very much so. Everything's coming up Millhouse. I wanted to quickly mention that they mentioned cycle tracking now has support for perimenopause menopause, which is good that they remember that everything's coming up me. I'm an old person married to another old person. That's right . There's customy Q on AirPods. Something for me actually, Panoramas on Vision Pro , you can now take a source that is a panorama and it can be treated as like a spatial scene where they synthesize depth to it, which okay fine, whatever . But they said you can also use these spatial scenes as environments. So if you don't speak Vision Pro, if you recall, you can put yourself on like the moon, on Saturn , next to a lake. I forget where the lake is. It doesn't matter. There's several other places there's three D desktop Yeah, it's like a three D deskt wallpaper. That's a very good summary. Thank you. Well, now you can use your own images as that three D desktop wallpaper, which is super cool because I've seen some incredible panoram. I'veas taken some great panoramas. Heck, I haven't done it yet this trip. But one of some of my favorite panoramas are from here at Cape Charles . So I could use one of those as my background. I could transport myself back to the beach, which is super cool. I've seen some great ones like Disney World, for example. If that's your thing because it is for me. So I think that's really neat. It's a shame though, by the way that the spatial scenes that you're taking are not three D in the same way as the actual environments. Because the actual environments you can like your cran heade over and look on the side of a rock that you couldn't see the side of before, but that's not going to work with the photos you take. So it's still like for the purposes of desktop wallpaper, if you want an image that is familiar to you and not one of the ones that Apple makes or the Disney makes or one of the other companies it is actually a lot of work to make one of these fully three D environment things . Yep, super cool. And then John, you were kind enough to pull a bunch of things from the WordWall. There's a lot here. Is there anything you want to call out specifically ? Yeah, let me just go through them real quick. This is another thing that's my keynotes. I'm always looking for photos. One of my big complaints has been, you know, I spend a lot of time in photos on my Mac and the Mac Photos app has had its feature count reduced for many years . Like they took away a whole bunch of features when they synced it with IOS and they just never reconciled that. Throw the fork away. They didn't take away all the features, but they took away a lot of the features . And when they took them away, I'm like, okay, well, I guess the feat ure set that's left in Mac photos. I guess that will be the common feature set across all their platforms eventually. But no , they just never brought stuff from the Mac to the other platforms. And they're things that I use, star ratings and keywords are two examples . Those exist and you could do them on the Mac, kind of like they exist in like iTunes slash music, but they barely are exposed in the iOS . But anyway, keywords. I put keywords on my photos. They have been for years and years . Those keywords are nowhere to be found on the iPhone. You can't set them on the iPhone star rating same thing. So they added them. This isn't their WordWall, so I don't know the details of this. And when we said word wall, we mean, we really mean a wall of words. This was in this section of the presentation where they're like platform improvements. They said also all this other stuff. And I screenshotted and just copied and pasted the text, you know, with the OCR thing and preview. Yep. And so this is what I got from it. It says Star ratings and photos, add keywords to photos and videos, expire your shared albums, which is a useful feature because sometimes like you're done with the vacation, you don't want to be up there anymore. Additional participant permissions in shared albums, which I guess you can say, you can edit photos and you can add photos or whatever. You can react with emoji in shared albums . I don't know what this one is, but I'm intrigued. Option to prioritize syncing to iCloud photos. Is that where I can say sync this picture now faster to start uploading at TiCloud Photos? That sounds good . Facetime is going to have dual camera use so you can show your face and the thing that you're looking at at the same time. Well, help when I'm trying to debug stuff with my parents . Notes has some new stuff. You can draw in notes in MacOS now. Imagine if you could like touch your screen and draw anyway. I magine section links in notes, copy and paste as markdown notes, iPad OS gets iPhone app resizing. We'll talk more about that in a little bit. Interesting An optional persistent menu bar on iPad. So you can have the menu bar show all the time. Undo and redo home screen edits in iPad OS , that's nice . I don't know if these are MacOS or iPadOS because again it's a word wall and I can't tell, but they say more consistent window positioning persistent across external displays. Those are music to anyone's ears. I don't know what platform they're even talking about. Is it iPad? Is it Mac? But yes, yes. Remember where Windows are on my displays. More high resolution and high refresh rate display modes for external displays. Again, is that iPad or Mac? Either way, thumbs up . More distinct active windows. We've slowly rediscovering the technology of being able to tell which window is active by distinguishing it visually. We used to know how to do it but all those people left and now we don't know . Updated menu bar icons. What the hell does that mean? Remove is I think removing the most of them, yeah. We updated them by removing them. Not in the menus, menu bar icons. Like look in your menu bar right now, the sound icon and like the, you know, like that's not what they mean. Not in menus, menu bar icons. That's got to be what they mean, right? Well, the Siri icons different. Yeah. It's that we would have wave thing. Yeah . Option click to secondary sort. This is just in the word wall, okay? But that's just for people are familiar with the old sort of table views, you could like click one of the headers to sort and you could click to sort ascending and descending. But then you could option click one of the other headers to do a secondary sort so you could sort ascending by album title and the option click the next thing by like a year or something. Anyway, I don't know what that applies to, but I'm excited by it. I don't even know what OSDs are. Updated app icons. What apps did you change every app icon? I'm excited about that because I didn't like a lot of the Tahoe icons. So updated app icons . Independent alarm volume. That's kind of like having independent alert volume, but it's cool to be able to control that separately. Again, what OS, I have no idea. Oh my god, I just validated one that's on here. Smoother scrolling in calendar. Nice. It's true. Oh my God, it actually scrolls like a normal app now . IPhone mirroring has app resizing, another interesting thing that we'll talk about in a little bit. DRM video support and iPhone mirroring, which is nice. The word wall is huge. We'll put a link to it in the show notes. There's even more stuff there. Those are just the ones that excited me the most. We are sponsored this episode by Squarespace, the on one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting out or scaling your business, Squarespace gives you everything you need to claim your domain, showcase your offerings with a professional website, grow your brand, and get paid all in one place. Of course, every website starts out with design. You want to first of all get your domain name, they help you with that. Then you want to design the site to look like you and your brand. And they make this super easy with their cutting edge design tools. They have this blueprint AI system. 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They're all built in to be optimized with metadescriptions and site maps and everything. So you show up more often to more people in global search engine results. It is everything you need to back your business . Analytics, emails, so much stuff. You can't even cover it all on one ad break. Here's what you do to find out more. Go to squarespace. com slash ATP and start a free trial. You can build your whole site in trial mode to see how well it works for you. When you're ready to launch, use offer cod e ATP to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or a domain. So squarespace dot com slash ATP code ATP at purchase. Thank you so much to Squarespace for sponsoring our show. All right, then we get to trust and safety. This is helmed by Sumble Desi, who's VP of Health . They really hammered home a lot that safety features, whatever they're about to be , and we'll talk about it, were based on experts in research. They kept saying over and over again that this isn't or they were hinting and saying in a roundabout way, basically, this isn't Apple just up and deciding what the best practices are for all these different things . They were going to the American Association or Society, whatever it is for Pediatrics. They were going to all these other different organizations that at least at one point were reputable, who knows now . But they talked a lot about children and devices , a lot, a lot. And they talked about you should have a child account for any of your children that you are acting as a parents of do you know what that is? Is that an existing thing? Am I just behind the times? I don't know what they were saying. I think it's an Apple ID where the birth date is known and known to be that of a child. I think it's as simple as that. Yeah, I think it's Apple ID, but they also said you can convert existing accounts to child accounts. So it goes with the Casey was saying. It's like maybe you have an apple ID for your kid, but it doesn't have a birthdate associated with it. So you can quote unquote convert it to a child account by putting a truthful birthday into the App IleD and then it becomes a child account. Anyway, this section trust and safety, as Casey was saying, basically is about I'm not going to say child restrictions, but about restrictions on the usage of Apple products. What would they what did they call this when they first sort of like started really emphasizing this? It was like digital health or digital well being or something. Yeah. This is very similar. It does have more of a child focus, but they have essentially overhaul ed every one of their features that lets you limit how much you or someone else can use Apple's products, like monitoring how much they're using them, limiting how much they're using them. Again, some people use this on themselves, parents use it on the kids. And as Casey said, they keep referencing these expert organizations, but they also emphasized, I forget the exact quote, but they were like, parents are in the best position to decide what's right for their kids. Even that seemingly who could possibly disagree with that statement? Unfortunately, it's a complicated world and there are, you know, kids who have parents who do not let them be who they actually are. And so giving them more electronic control over their lives is worse for those kids than when they had more like a secretly see things on their computer that was in their room without their parents being supervising them or whatever. There is no perfect solution to this, but I think Apple's had tools, digital well being tools, and parental control tools for years, and my complaint about them has always been that they don't really work. Screen time has never worked consistently for me. It has always showed statistics that don't make any sense based on what I know to be true. The screen time statistics would never match from device to device to the same person. So what even is the point? This device says you use this long. This device says you use that long, like which one is right. We have three devices and three different answers for everything. And also, the restrictions were so incredibly easy for kids to get around that it was just terrible. So this entire section of the talk is we have overhauled everything having to do with digital wellbeing and parental controls. And we've added a ton new features and like a lot of things we've talked about in the past, I'm saying you needed to fix this. You needed to overhaul it, fingers crossed that it actually works this time. And if it doesn't work, fingers crossed that you fix it until it does work because they essentially left screen time to rot and it became mostly a joke among kids. So I know there are lots of downsides to this . I know that a lot of kids don't want their parents to have even more control over their electronic lives, but on the flip side, a lot of well meaning parents do want to have some kind of control and knowledge. They want to be able to give their kid a device at whatever age their friends get it while still having it be locked down or whatever, and the features they showed allow good conscientious parents to better serve themselves than their kids . They also allow bad parents to be worse parents, unfortunately, and that is the double edged sword of technology. Yeah, I think there's also we can't forget the environment that they are doing this in right now in the world , in the political and regulatory environment . There is a huge number of age verification requirements and regulations going into effect all over the world, all over the U. S. , they are well meaning , although in many ways pretty problematic. I was going to say they are not well meaning. Well, it's almost universally not well meaning. I think the people who support them who like hear about it and say that's a good idea. I think they have they have well meaning behind that. The public that supports them has usually has good intentions with people who are proposing the bills do absolutely do not. And the reason they're getting voted for is because the surveillance state, that's what that's what people want. So the people who propose these bills and the politicians who support them have terrible motivations. The citizens who hear about it and say that it sounds like a good idea, they're well meaning. Yeah, that's a good way to put it because like, you know, when you hear something like we need to protect children from inappropriate material, it's like, okay, that seems fine. But then once you get into how and what does that mean? By gathering information about every human on the planet, does that sound good? Yeah, yeah, it's like, oh, what if we take a picture of every kid's face and store it in a database? We want to know who you are and how old you are in your social security number. We're going to store that somewhere and it will never be hacked. Don't worry. Yeah, don't yeah, we're going to store we're going to have let's maybe that's a global identification system. Just for verification. Yeah, don't worry it won't, be in an S three bucket. We just need to know everything about you and these private company news are going to store it and don't worry they'll take care of that data. No problem. They won't sell to anybody. It will never get hacked, you'll never lose it. It's just a terrible idea. And so what p andrivate comp anies, and what are they getting out of it? And it's just I mean, the whole thing is it's sucks a mess. And then of course you go into like, okay, well in many, in many places , you know, content is considered dangerous or illegal that I think maybe you and I might not think is dangerous or illegal . Think about places where certain sexualities or gender identities are considered illegal still . You know, that's that's a very big thing still in the world . You know, there's it's a huge battleground in so many places or even just in our country where some gay kids gonna want to learn about themselves so they can't go to any of those pages because anything having to do with anything that's not heterosexuality is deemed equivalent to porn, which is ridiculous, but that's how that's how these laws are structured. Or gender affirming care, like if you think you're trans and you want to like maybe read a little bit more about that or consider some of those ideas. Like you're too young to know about that even though you're living it. Yeah, it's like we've had throughout throughout our history a lot of like, you know, banned content for in various ways, banned books, you know, banned political ideas and banned ideologies and concepts. And you know, we as a society are not good at making good decisions around that and controlling that uniformly. And so in the political environment that we're operating and getting back to the topic , Apple has targeted Azaback because so does every other major tech gateway company that all of these regulators and legislators around the world keep saying, well , you created this entire controlled walled garden. So that means when we want to dictate what people can do, we just have to go to you. It isn't like, you know, if you're trying to like block something on the open web, it's much harder. There's a lot more parties involved. You have to like it's kind of a game of whackamole. You can't really ever fully get everything, but if you're a tech gatekeeper on a lockdown platform , you can do whatever the government forces you to do. So Apple has created this problem and put themselves in this position, but they also recognize they are in this position. And so now as all of these laws are either threatened to be put in place or actually are enacted around the world . Apple, I think, recognized we need to get ahead of this . And because you see what happens if Apple in their gatekeeper position , if there's a regulatory upswell of some feelings around the world and Apple doesn't get ahead of it, you end up with something like the DMA in the European Union where it's like, okay, well, the regulators have decided that your version of lockdown and app store control and fees and everything is anticipitive. Apple has decided not to even do anything at all about that whatsoever, unless they're absolutely forced to. And so what happens ? Governments regulate them and sometimes they go pretty far in that regulation in ways that might be either impractical, certainly undesirable for Apple for other reasons other than financial reasons, could hurt the products in various ways . Well, that same thing could happen with all these age requirement laws everywhere and verification and everything. So in this case, this is Apple, I think, trying to get ahead of that instead of what they did with the Abster Rules, which was nothing. Now they're trying to get ahead of it a little bit so that way they can go talk to the different politicians and legislators that are trying to enforce probably more draconian and more ridiculous measures and say, look, we have done all the research. We have we've worked with these different groups and the American Association of Pediatrics and all these we've worked with all these people and created this fully safe proven system that addresses these needs and therefore you don't have to regulate us any further. Like that's kind of the move here. So I think that that's why we're seeing this now . Now as a parent who uses a screen time for my kid , all of these improvements to screen time are certainly welcome because it is a really simplistic and limited system and it's and easy to get around. Yeah, screen time it's been one of those Apple features like I was talking about last week where they kind of like did like an eighty percent job and then just never touched it again . Like for like for years and years and years . So this is nice to see. I see why they're doing it now. I think it's a good idea to do it now . And I trust Apple to do this kind of thing well if it has to be done at all. Now, as John was saying a few minutes ago, there is the question of like, well, are there any downsides to this being done at all , but the world is deciding on its own that they're going to force these kind of restrictions on tech platforms. They're going to force this no matter what. So in that context, I trust Apple to do it better than anyone else and in a way that considers , you know, things that things that don't follow the simplistic storyline better than anybody else, including things like what if the parents, you know, what if parents are trying' to keep down their their gay kid? Like that's like there's all those or you know, what about like domestic abuse situations? Like there's all sorts of situations that like when platforms talk about or develop or think about , you know, permissions based systems like this or access control systems. There's a lot of those kind of, you know, messy realities that they don't consider, and then that becomes a bad scene for a lot of people. Apple historically has been much better than everyone else at handling that kind of, you know, breadth of concepts, considering all of these different cases and doing the best they can with them. Assuming it works, again, that's always the caveat, although I will say I don't think in this case this is going to save Apple. Unlike the DMA stuff the DMA is trying to make them do a thing that would be beneficial to everybody . Now the laws are trying to make Apple do a thing that is not beneficial to anybody except for again the surveill ance state and people who want to own this data and to give an example of that and all these laws that are being passed that Apple doesn't like , they're going to say, it's well and good that you did all at Apple. But you know, you just ask people to enter their ages. Like you ask parents to enter their kids' ages, you ask people to voluntarily enter their ages. What's stopping them from just lying about their age? Because that's whenever you hear age verification stuff, well, shouldn't be, you know, like kids shouldn't be able to see things they shouldn't see. So , you know, but like, oh, what do they lie about their age? That's where we get into the whole gathering your identity because they can't just say, hey, please enter your age here. Like, no, no, no, you have to prove that you're eighteen years old or nineteen years old or twenty years old. You can't just say it because what's the point in adding a dialogue box is type your age here. Okay , fifty seven, boom. Like anybody can type a number . They need to get your identity. They need to know who you are. You need to prove who you are. So what do we gather for that? A government ID, a picture of you, your birth certificate, your social security number, you know, like go through a verification agency that will gather all your biometric data and vouch for you that like that's where this becomes a problem. Apple is doing none of that. When you create a child account, an adult just enters. I have a kid, this is her birthday, that's them. You can type anything you want there. I have fake children Apple IDs right now for kids that don't exist for the purposes of testing , nothing is like that was Apple's whole big point here. We consult it with experts and we're putting it in the hands of the parents. And the government's saying, no, no, no, the laws we want to pass say you can't do any of that because then anyone can enter anything they want. And Apple's like, we trust parents, we trust our users. That's the way we want to do. And these laws are like, you can't trust parents. You can't trust users. You certainly can't trust kids. You know, you can trust Palantier. Right. Exactly. And so that's the bind er we're in. So I feel for Apple here . I agree that they're trying to do, what they're trying to do is in general a good idea . It does have some scary downsides, but the much scarier thing are the laws that are being and I just' talmking about US laws, the laws in other countries where people can be executed for being gays like that's a whole other ball box, even just in the U. S., depending on what state you're in, things are already pretty grim. So it's interesting, I think it is interesting that one fully one third topic wise of the keynote was on the topic of trust and safety and it was essentially all about digital well being parental controls. And again, it all looks good and it's a vast improvement in what it came before. I hope they did a good job implementing it, but I fear that it's not going to be enough . Yeah, I mean, everything you guys said is exactly right . It was interesting watching this for me because as Declan's is Decklin's fifth grade graduation kind of present and in some ways, in many ways, as a self serving thing, we got him an Apple Watch SE. This is his first real honest to goodness device. Was it an SE three? Yes, and I know that 's run the new watch OS. Yeah , exactly . But anyways, so we've been we he was using an iPhone that does not have service. You know, it's effectively an iPod touch at this point as a noise maker in his room, like just to do like white noise in the background while he sleeps. And so we had done a little bit of screen time on that, like screen time related settings on that to make sure he's not fussing with that during times he shouldn't be. But now he has a device that is places other than his bedroom. And so we had to take a much closer look at screen time. And I can tell you it's not very clear or easy to set up. It's unclear how they really expect things to happen. Like none of it is very well done . And they went through in the keynote, you know, what who when and how with regard to kid related things? So what content can kids see? One of the big things they announced is ask to browse for websites. So in the same way that you have, you know, may I download this app, please? You can have may I go to this website. And apparently this is turned on by default for kids under thirteen years old . They have who you can talk to. And this is something that we were running into with Decklin because we don't personally, for us, we don't currently want him to have unfettered access to any contact under the sun. We would like to be able to vet the people that he's putting in his watch to send text messages with. And as he gets older, we'll probably stop doing that, but for today , we would like that. And so that's kind of very clugy in screen time settings right now. And now there's also a ask for permission to connect, which is really great because that'll make those sorts of things much, much easier. They also kind of flipped on its head, or maybe not flipped on its head, but took a different approach to screen time scheduling. So, you know, we could say you can't use your device after seven or seven thirty at night or what have you. Well now that is still true, but now you can also say, well, you know, any app in the realm of games , you can have thirty minutes a day, an hour a day, two hours a day, et cetera. So they're doing time allowances. This is when kids can have access. They do time allowances rather than a specific schedule. And I think some of this was already available, but it was an app by app basis and now you can do it in like a group basis . And I think that that's very clever as well. And then how parents can guide kids . They said the words we've completely redesigned screen time . You can pause device use entirely. You can also allow unlimited use. So there's a very easy button right at the top or three a trio of buttons. Pause, allow unlimited and change schedule because another thing you can do is get more robust scheduling. So school days or these rules, weekends are these rules. They also talked about how there's a bunch of APIs available for developers as well to leverage with this. They did also mention that there's a setup assistant, which is basically a Windows wizard , which I chortled about because it's very clunky, but also the way you set it up right now is even clunkier. So I'm actually kind of excited about that . And there's also going to be a new child safety website, which they mentioned as well. So that's pretty cool. We are sponsored this episode by Claude. Claude is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough. 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I had it generate two hundred test cases and then make sure the code passed them all. And it only took a couple more edits and it did . That was an amazing experience and it saved me, not only did it save me time because I never would have written those test cases. There's no world in which that would have happened. So it saved me time. And then that also means that it saved me from shipping buggy code to customers . So everything about this is making my life better. Obviously, it goes well beyond code too. They have a whole cowork product to bring egentic power to your desktop without using a terminal. So if you don't want a terminal workflow, if you're not that technical, anybody can use the Claude Coworks app to do real work. So there's all sorts of capabilities with Claude. It's also just a great general purpose AI. You can do research with it, you can ask it questions . It's amazing. For problems worth solving, get started with Claude at clawed. AI slash a tp. That's clawed. AI slash ATP. And check out Claude Pro, which includes access to all these features mentioned in today's episode Claude. AI slash ATP. Thanks to Claude for sponsoring our show. And then we get to, I think, the final of the tri umvirate, if I'm not mistaken, which is Apple Intelligence and Siri . And one of the things that was said verbatim, I believe, is some seem to be pursuing AI for the sake of AI. And I think that is extremely well said. As I said, I believe in the top of the show, I am very enthusiastic at this point before we get to the state of the Union , where Apple seems to be taking what I consider to be a much more appley and much more effect ive approach to AI, which is what are the ends we're trying to do and are those ends able to be by some of these new technologies? So they have a bold new architecture for Apple Intelligence and Siri centered around you and the Apple products you use every day. Again, so far so good. Then they started talking about Apple foundation models. Craig said, again, either verbatim or close to. This year we embarked on a deep collaboration with Google , leveraging the technologies behind their Gemini family of models. Together, we created the next generation of Apple foundation models for our integrated Apple intelligence experiences and adapted these new models to run on device and on servers using private cloud computes. So if you're wondering if Google was going to get a mention or Gemini, not only did they get a mention, they got a very generous for on the Apple Scale things mentioned. Together we created a collaboration between Apple and Google. They named Google . They named Gemini. They attributed this product to a collaboration, a deep collaboration with Google. I don't think that was contractually obligated. It sounded like they wanted to say this. Some people were cynically saying, well, now when it goes wrong, they can just blame Google for when it siri tells you to boogle on pizza or whatever. But you know, I could have gone either way on this. A lot of thought went before the keynote was like, well, they even mention Google or they just say it's Apple intelligence. Again, there was that quote unquote joint press release many months ago that was only released by Google. I mean, obviously it had Apple's blessing because it talked about Apple in it, but that made me think like, oh they're not going to mention Google at all, but how could they avoid it? And they didn't. It is a deep collaboration with Google. We'll see how long this deep collaboration lasts again. They previously had a pretty deep collaboration in twenty twenty four with OpenAI and that one doesn't seem to be going as well. So but anyway, for now, Google helped us fix our crap. Yep, good, hope, we hope. Good, we hope. Yep . So there's going to be new more powerful on device model or models . Higher accuracy dictation, heck, yes, better natural language understanding, heck yes , a new system orchestrator personal context understanding . They said that behind the scenes Apple intelligence uses a spotlight and all of us went . But the good one, the new one, not the old one . Right. Right. Yeah. This time it works. We swear. Yeah, we'll see. Well, we shall see about this. Speaking of the new series, by the way, there is a waiting list in the beta. So if you install the beta, it says, Oh, you want to use the new series, join the waiting list. I means, obviously it's the first beta and the store rolling things out, but just FYI, if you're rushing to install the betas, you can try the new Siri, you're gonna be on the waiting list probably. At least you'll be close to the top, I guess. Oh, and actually, can we pause right now? We do this every year. I'm going to do it again. I should have done this at the top of the show, but I'm going to do it now. Pull over, order your t shirts. ATP. Fim slash store. No , don't buy those. They aren't the good ones. No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. For the love of God , do not put betas on any device you care about. Marco, I believe you said you were doing it on an alternate device, if I'm not mistaken. I have it on my laptop and I actually just ordered a refurbished iPhone Air because because I want to run the new models , like the high end models. I want to test my like all my transcription stuff with them and the only iPhone that I own that can run the big new models is my personal iPhone seventeen Pro and because it can only run on the seventeen pro and the Air. Oh, I didn't realize that. Okay. Yeah. And we should just list the other devices while we're talking about this. The new more powerful on device models runs on iPhone Air, iPhone seventeen Pro. iPad with M four and later , so that's not a lot of iPad. Just the latest air in the Pro, right? Yeah . And a Mac with M three and later, and you need at least twelve gigs of RAM. Oof. I barely made it in on my M three Macs. So if you have an eight gig Mac , that's not going to save you M three and later. Yeah. So I mean, I'm assuming if you have a machine that is older than that, you'll just get the older existing on device models. Well, it's based on what they were saying. It sounds like there's actually two new model classes. It sounds like they made the foundation models better for all devices that could run them before, which was like it's like iPhone fifteen pro and you know so it's all devices that can run Apple intelligence mod els locally before. I think those are all those are getting new models, but then also there's a there's like an even larger, more sophisticated set of local models that these higher end or newer devices are getting. Yeah. And if you know the Gemini product lines, you can probably guess which Gemini models are like replaced Apple's old foundation models and which Gemini models are their new more powerful ones. I'm sure Apple has tweaked them in whatever ways they want. Yeah. Regardless , they also said that there is going to be broad world knowledge, including going to the web. You can do app actions, which I don't remember them ever having referred to it that way before, but maybe I'm wrong. Also on screen awareness. And at this point, they trot out Mike Rock well, the fixer who is allegedly going to fix new Siri Fix Siri to make new Siri. And let me tell you, if you are to believe the keynote and we are recording this hours after the keynote, we're recording it on Keynote Monday . We've barely had time to do, John and I haven't had time to put any betas anywhere. Marco has barely had any time to put betas anywhere. Oh, and that's why I don't think I've ever closed the loop on that. Don't put the beta on any device. I think I'd briefly said that, but don't do it. it. You care about Not the first beta anyway. Yeah, definitely not the first beta. Anyway for the public beta. Exactly right. But anyway , at this point, we are in full , it's all gonna be great, man. That's where we are right now. So let's take this all with copious amounts of salt. But so this thing they had here was, as Marco said, it's a dual shot, it's a split screen. On the left is Mike Rockwell holding his phone and you can see him from the waist up. And on the right is a hand holding an iPhone . And it's very clear from the second they start doing this demo, that's his hand. What you see on the left ? The shot on the right is a close up of the hand that you see on the left. You know that because when his finger twitches on the left, the finger twitches on the right, like these are live synced in time real time shots. Now, first of all, setting aside what we're going to talk about in the second, which is the convincing everybody this is not fake. Look at the angle he's I should put a fridge frame of this, but if not go to the thing, look at the angle he's holding his phone. He's looking at his phone screen. He's holding it so that it is facing him . And I'm like, where is the camera that is shooting? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you can see just that a frame, I'm sure maybe they see part of it out, but just at a frame, there is a huge camera and lighting rig pointed over his shoulder at the phone to get what I think is an amazing shot of a real iPhone where you can read the screen where it doesn't look like the phone is not pointed at the camera. I just the staging of this and I probably they probably had in practice. Hold your hand exactly here at exactly because it doesn't you could have him hold it like oh he's clearly holding his phone. it So's playing to the camera. It doesn't even look like he's using it. No, he looks like he's using his phone and yet they're still managing to get a shot. So a plus for whoever set up this shot just on the like logistics and the quality of the appearance. Now, Mike Rockwell is a human being, and I guess they didn't want to do too many takes of this, and he speaks with his hands. So occasionally you'll see his other hand fly up into the frame on the right side, which is another really human moment of just like, they probably told him not to do that, but he gets excited and his hand moves and it appears in frame. It is very human and very straightforward. Again, kind of like with Steve Jobs would have like the overhead projector camera pointing down at his phone that would be attached with a tether so it could show him the big scre en and he, you know, it kind of reminds me of that. But kudos from doing that. And then finally, as we discussed at length already , they needed to do this to show you this is not fake. This is a real phone. We never cut away. It's a contin ue. It's a wonner. It's a you know, I mean, they do have cuts, but like when he's interacting with the phone, this is it. This is software. It is running out of phone. He's talking to it. We are all to assume that this is not like a canned demo where it's just like a movie playing and he's pretend ing he's using it. And we are convinced of that by the fact that sometimes you have to wait an uncomfortable period of time for the new series to do anything. And we just see the little spinner and we go uh I guess is it going to do something and he just stands and again this is, a two shot that never got away. He's there and he just has to sit there silently waiting for the phone to do. And then the screen comes up and then he says his prepared statement. Oh, now it has told me blah blah blah blah blah. So this was simultaneous ly both the most uncomfortable section of the keynote and also I feel like potentially the most triumphant. I think I post on a mastodon that this is Mike Rockwell either taking his victory lap, you brought me into fixery, done I f'ixve ed it. Or it's him going out there and saying, Now it's my neck on the line. If this crap doesn't work, you're gonna blame me because I know it's like, if you're going to fix Siri, you got to go out there and show it working. And you know how you have to show it working? A continuous shot of the phone in your hand and you use it. And that's the only convincer. It's like, we can't ship this , unless this works. And it's not shouldn't be such a high bar because it's like, well, of course, you can't ship something unless it works , right? But in this post WWC twenty twenty four world , there's such skepticism about Apple ever getting this to work that they need to do everything they possibly can to say, we swear. We swear it will work this time . And I'm actually still not convinced because I haven't used it myself. That's but they did everything they could. So kudos to Mike Rockwell, extra kudos to the people who set up the shot. Yeah. And actually , a friend of mine, Rob Ryan tweeted at Craig Hagenberry, another friend of ours that and this is with regards to later in the keynote, but I presume it's applicable here too. Rob said Justin's demos were all one large take. Imagine how many times he flubbed and had to reshoot the demo . So I would assume that's true as well for Rockwell. Again, I don't know this, but that is intense and I am impressed. And like we've all three of us at some point during this episode have said, I didn't see exactly what they needed to do to instill some amount of confidence that this is not vaporware. Yeah. And they showed the new look of Siri, which German's German's like mockups, artists mockups were actually pretty accurate. One of the things I noted every time they showed the thing, especially on Mike Rockwell's particular phone that he's demoing on when the big like dynamic island expands into this large liquid glassy blob where Siri does stuff with like an animation and it's very clear. Like I don't think the slider affects that. It's very translucent, it's very transparent. It looks glassy, and it refracts what's behind it. And what's usually behind it are the top corners of some icons on the home screen. If you're doing it on the home screen, he's got widgets. He's got the weather widget and the calendar at the top of the screen. And if you can look at the screenshot in my in the show notes here, I don't have the image of list for us to put in the document, but if you just watched the video, you can see it. Do you see the little the two little holes, the little refracty holes that it's making the bottom in of the logs and should you see them the notes? Yep. What is that thing that we knew the name of when the twenty nineteen Mac Pro came out? The thing that makes people like makes people feel queasy when they see things with lots of holes in it. Oh yeah. It's giving me that and it's not just this. There was a couple other screenshots that did the same thing. Because it is so refracty and clear, it adds these artifacts that either look like it looks like it has like these weird sort of rotted holes in it or it looks like an alien head or whatever , yet another place where the idea that interface elements should be glassy and refract the things behind them is not a great idea. Even with an interface element, the whole point of it is just to be the spinny ethereal rainbow colored blob. I think that's ugly and I hope they fix that . You know what it gives to me is Flight to the Navigator. I don't know why, but it's reminding me of the spaceship from Fly to the Navigator for whatever reason. Anyways, so yeah, M soike Rockwell is doing his victory lap. They're now calling it Siri AI , which is Siri plus Apple intelligence. Mike said specifically, we know there are times you expect more from Siri. Well, no Sherlock. Did you think of an understatement of the century? In any case, they talk about a whole bunch of stuff. I'm going to try to blast through this real fast, but they said it's a more capable assistant and they go through like an exchange where, you know, what where's Jeff's new place? Show me photos from near there. That's not exactly right. But get the idea . It's they also talked about how the voice is much better and more expressive . Additionally, there's sliders like Carrot Weather style where you can change not only the pace of the voice. You can crank it super fast if you're sicko like me and listen listen to podcasts at nearly two X or you can slow it way down. You can also crank up or down the express ion. I so wanted them to turn the expressibility to max because I want to say how far does that go? Because it sounds pretty expressive the one where it's like, I'm so excited to read this sentence because I think it should be read and excited, but they never they, never mo theved expressibility. They just changed the speed slider. I'm like, put that expressivity to the max. I want to hear it. This is yeah, that's cool. Like new ways to prank your friends. Like go change that setting on their phone. Yeah, exactly. Put it on slowest speed, highest expressive . But then they said it's more conversational and they talked here about how you can swipe down from the dynamic island to search on IOS and search and spotlight and serial are all kind of one conflated thing now . They use the example, which is really bold. They use the example of what's the schedule for the upcoming weekend of the World Cup, which is the sort of thing that Siri of Yor would absolutely just crap the bed on. Anything sports related, it's always wrong. It's showing you Super Bowl results from thirty years ago, whatever the case may be. Things that seem so eminently obvious. You know, like, when is the football game today? Asks an American in series like, oh , you know, some British team is playing some other British team in three days or whatever. It's just preposterous . And then they have a whole conversation about how I want to plan a watch party for Brazil, Morocco, and they go back and forth. And this looks good. Like if we're to take on at face value that this is how this works, I'm not sure I would use Siri to help me plan a party, but the fact that it is capable of doing that, here is, I guess, actually to argue with myself, this is one of those occasions where it's like we don't really need AI for this. Like I'm not looking to plan a party with AI, but I am happy to know that it's possible. Well, setting aside whether you want to do it or not . Th deesemos, I mean these, de demmos are justonstrating, look, it doesn't suck so bad anymore. And I can understand what we're saying. But they always ended at least one step short of something that I think humans would actually wanna do is they would be like, find the photos from last weekend, send some send only the photos with these people in them to this group chat and blah blah blah . And that's just essentially demonstrating serious LLM power now. It understands what I'm saying. It no longer embarrassingly gets wrong everything about what I'm trying to say. It demonstrates the demo shows it understands me, it knows what I'm asking and then it tries to do it. But the place where it falls down and the reason to your point, Casey, why people probably won't use Siri to do these types of things, setting aside that they don't trust it because they think it sucks is that they get to the point where it's like, okay, show me the photos from this weekend, send the ones of my kids. Everyone wants to pick the specific photos . They don't they're not going to they show like two photos in the thumbnails and they're like, I think it said like thirty seven photos and it was like, great, send, no, you're gonna wanna see, maybe you don't want to send thirty. You're gonna wanna pick the five that you want, like human interaction has to happen, or the thing of like, I'm putting together this plan. Does this look okay? And you're like, show me the part where you say , actually I want to edit that. Launch me into a text editor with this thing. Show me this as a file. Like the final mile, the last mile of like human interaction is either required or desired in many steps in this process. If you're just talking back and forth with the agent and you're like, I'm fine with whatever you do, then your friends are going to complain, stop using that stupid AI thing to put stuff into our chat because it's just a bunch of slop, right? Say what you have to say or show us the pictures you think are good . You know, and I get like I said on a past thing of like somebody who doesn't know how to use a phone saying, oh, I just started typing to my friend about a trip to Japan and it prompted me to send the phot os. Like that person does need that kind of help, but as a demo as a general purpose thing, you need to be able to drill down. I know this is a version of one point zero we're just glad if it works at all, right? But every one of these demos, I saw the part where it's like, well, now is the part where the human's gonna wanna make a decision. It's like saying book me a vacation. Like nobody wants to do that as a real thing. You do it as a demo to show how cool your thing is, but no one wants to do that because you're like, I want to pick my flight times. I want to pick my airline. I want to pick my seats. I want to pick my hotel. Like you want to have input because it's your life, you know, and the difference between this and like a human assistant is presumably if you have a human assistant who is a skilled, you're fabulously wealthy and that you pay them a lot of money to know your actual taste and probably you still have complaints about it. But yeah, so these demos as a demonstration that Siri no longer sucks were convincing, but they were not convincing to me as a demonstration of the thing that humans are going to do with their phone. Yeah, I mean, this is true. Like almost every ern AI demo. Like every new AI model that comes out, every AI based product, you know, every company that integrates AI into their stuff, they always come up with these like, you know, kind of contrived weird demos that no one really does or would do in that way. But also or if they did, their friends would yell at them about it. Right. But also Apple's own keynotes have always been filled with these kinds of demos . You know, just it's been less sophisticated and it's been they've always included some contrived situation often being performed by Craig Federigi that nobody would ever actually do. And also if you tried to do it, it wouldn't work as well. And this is the thing like, you know, when I'm saying like Apple has a credibility problem with a lot of these areas . This goes back in lots of ways. Like even before, you know, AI and you know, Siri has always been a big one, but even just stuff like, you know, the stuff they demo at WBC oftentimes does not pan out the way that they they seem to hope or think it will. Things like I work documents being collaboratively edited, you know, where it's like, well, no one actually ever does that because it sucks and everyone just used Google Docs . A lot of this new way I stuff is okay, well will people actually do this with Apple Apple's intelligence or Syria, you know, whatever version of that we're tal king about . Or will they just bounce out to Chat GPT or Claude or something else and do it there? Because they're better. You know, like there's this is like and this is two different questions. Like number one, will Apple's version of this thing work and work reliably ? And then number two , will it be competitive and then will it stay competitive over the course of the following year if they just kind of kind of halfassedly upd ated along the way or don't update it at all along the way, which often is the case with Apple's features . So this is a great set of promises . The demos didn't really tell us what we really want to know, but just does it work? And how well does it work? And that's the kind of thing we will only find out with time. Everybody who's ever used an Apple platform or been near a homepod knows like Siri over respond s and under delivers . We have all had pathetic Siri failures . Will this finally fix it ? I mean, I like to think , maybe , but I almost feel like am I being naive for even believing that it's possible for Apple to fix it? Like we've been burned so many times. So they need to earn our trust. That's going to take time. They might be on the path to do that with this new version of all this stuff. I hope they are because it might not seem this way all the time, but I'm rooting for them. I want them to succeed because I like I like and use their products . But have just been burned so many times in these areas . What they have shown today is an interesting concept . Will it deliver? Will it be reliable? Will we actually be using all of these features a year from now. Or will we be saying at next WBC, oh yeah that's gonna show up that never happened or yeah I used that once then never again 'cause it sucked or oh yeah that started out pretty unreliable and now it's kind of okay or are we going to actually be integrating this stuff into our daily lives? Are we actually going to be using it so much that we don't even think about how unreliable or crappy it used to be? We don't know yet. We, you know, we have to see what happens, how this does this actually ship? How does it ship? Is it good ? And that's I feel like what people are feeling with this keynote, the reason why it's it's kind of gotten a mixed reaction from a lot of the people I've se en is that we can't know that yet. All we have right now is more promises . Let's hope that they pan out. Yeah, I do think the last mile problem is that maybe I think for next year's WABC is like even on the simple stuff if you're not doing an interactive, you're not planning a whole vacation, you're not planning a party or any of these silly contrived things. Although I will say for the past contrived things, the only thing that was contrived about it was that all the person's friends were fashion models and all the pictures were amazingly taken and everything. But anyway, this one is the contrived thing of like no one ever wants an agent to do all this stuff for them. But even for the simple stuff that you might imagine yourself doing, which is, you know, tell me when Mom's slight is arriving, which they did not do this time. But that's just an informational thing . Even on that demo, my question would be, say they did that demo and it said, look, it works and it told me when my mom's flight is riding. Can I copy and paste from that window? Can I like where is the last mile? Like, oh I want that information and notes they say like oh just send it in a message to blah blah blah like at a certain point you as the user need to at any point you as the user need to be jumping to jump in and say let, me do my user things. Like that's the thing about the other ones where they're like, oh I'm making a party invitation. Some human doing the demo would drag in the three prepared pictures of models for the thing, but they would pick them. They would pick them, they would decide where they they go, would like the human has to have some role here other than a off hand comment yelling yelling to your personal assistant in the next room to do a thing. It's like, do I not have a role in my life . Like I need to be able to jump in at any point and these black bubbles, these series conversations, you can go to the zap and you can see your past conversations. So okay, that's the start, but like part of I think the utility people get out of like the chat GPT web inter racer wh,atever is, it's just like you can copy and paste out of that window. There's little copy buttons next to things . You can jump to another window and do another thing. Like the user is involved . And all these demos were like your involvement is just giving vague directions and approving the things that I present you. And it's like, no, I need to be more involved in that. I don't need to do it at all. Like, I need the assistant to assist me, but even again, something as simple as some information and it gives me the information. Am I just going to look at that? I probably wanted that for something. So at the very least, I need to be able to copy paste out of the window. Now maybe you can, maybe you can copy paste out of the window, but none of the demos showed anything other than I talk and bubbles appear, and maybe I press a yes or no button. And that I think is a non starter. That's the reason I think people like the Chat GPU web interface is because it's more than that, that you do participate in it. So I don't want to sound like I'm down on this because I'm with you Mark. Like I want this to work and I think it can work and it's going to be way better than it was before, I think . But the whole industry has a ways to go on the dream of like it's like a smart personal assistant that knows all your tastes can do everything for you. That doesn't exist. This demo doesn't show it. Nobody has it. It does not exist. Even finding human systems to do that is really difficult . And people like to think it does exist, and they like to do demos pretending it exists, but it absolutely doesn't. And instead, what people should be doing demos of is we know the limitations of this technology. Here are all the places you can intervene to still have a successful endpoint, to still have the successful party, to still send the five pictures that you wanted to send with the help of the AI narrowing it down for you and giving you the final choice in an interface that is not a tiny black bubble floating over the whole rest of your phone screen . Well, what's funny is when they talked about Serial MacOS, you know, they said it's integrated into spotlight, blah, blah, and they literally said, Of course, this is a Mac. So I can drag this window anywhere and resize it to see more. Hey , anyway. So yeah, we'll see what happens trying to page your show notes and see if there's anything else. Actually, I want to before we move on from that, there was one demo where speaking of demos that they might have to do multiple times, you know, was there single take demos and stuff, the demo where they were doing, I forget what they were doing. They were doing some kind of ser thing on the Mac. It was showing cool stuff like you can mult fiil seeslect in the finder and then say I want to ask a Siri question about this and basically compare these and it makes a little table. Like that's super useful. Again , the less limited Apple's platforms are, the more I feel like the integration of Siri can be useful because you can multi select a bunch of files and right click them and say Ask Seri about them. Try doing that in the files app on your phone with your finger. Good luck if they even allow you. But one of the demos was like and see it even understands my typos, which if anyone who has ever used LLM based chatbots and stuff knows , you can put typos in there. You can misspell words, you can fat finger things it deals with it just fine because it's trained, it's filled with typos. And so it's fine about that. It's not like it has to spell correct or something. It just doesn't matter . Did that person intentionally make that typo? I think they put electrical but they put like an X because X is near the CK on the keyboard or whatever. Did they have to practice mistyping a word in that exact way. Let's do another take. You typed it correctly like are they touched type us and like it's hard for me to intentionally make a mistake on that specific word in this specific way, but it reminded me of the Utahad tri Rop where the auto the guy was doing a Utah road trip demo of some like thing that was making like a I don't know a slideshow or something and an old Mac keynote and the autocorrect got them like they had just edited autograph or whatever else was in and it auto corrected he typed Utah supposed to be Utah road trip was the typo. And the system auto corrected Utah, the misspelled Utah to its IT apostrophe Yes. So instead of Utah road trip, it said its road trip and the guy had such a smack on forehead expression and like an upset face. And on the screen it says, It's Road Trip . That was a meme for a long time . And then what Apple did was history eraser button that when they put out that video, they replaced it with another take where he successfully types Utah road trip and you don't get to see the guy go I hope someone still has that original. It's probably a YouTube the original it's Road trip thing. So this reminded me of that was a vague call back to its road trip. It's like see I, can do, ty pos and it still understands me That's incredible. There's a new dedicated Siri app which we all expected. They talked about visual intelligence for a while which mostly I didn't think was that interesting personally, but one thing that I thought was very cool was they said and this went by super fast. I might get the details wrong, but that you can split a bill by shooting an image of like the tab, the checker would have you. And then I'm not clear exactly how. I think Siri parses it and then you basically somehow tell it, okay, well Marco had this, John had that, I had this, and then it'll figure out what the totals should be and split it amongst all the people, which is very cool if it actually works. It's going to be real embarrassing when you do that and the total doesn't come out the total of the bill. Exactly. LMs are notoriously bad at doing math unless they have specific tool use, which hopefully this does. I do wonder like if it would correctly split the bill and then you said it will actually make Jim pay two dollars more and then it starts when you start doing deltas and then at the very end you take those numbers into a calculator and add them up, just check maybe that they equal the total otherwise you know stiffing people. But yeah, it'll be cool if it works. You can write and edit with Siri, which I mean whate,ver . I did think it was interesting though that when they were talking about making a document, they said you could describe a document in natural language and they said, Siri can generate a draft to get the ball rolling . I thought it was interesting that they were making it clear that the implication was not we are not advocating necessarily having Siri write an entire document for you, but you can get the bones of it and then fill in what you want afterwards, which I thought was . I saw a lot of people online complaining about this because they're like, who would ever ask an LM to write a thing for them? And as I said in past episodes, I encourage people to write things themselves. But I totally understand the situ ations, the context in which people desire something like this, which is a context in which they don't feel like they're expressing themselves anyway. This is not a place for me to express any of my knowledge or opinion about anything. In fact, this is this is a place where I have to perform a certain I have to perform a certain role in a way that is satisfying to others that does not require any input from me . And in that scenario, there is only downside for me trying to write this myself because what if I failed the performance in some way? So instead, I will have a machine write this for me because honestly it is not an expression of myself in any way. I know this sounds terribly dehumanized but what I'm essentially describing as large parts of several real jobs where you have to do this . And that's where I think that's where I think these tools where the people who see this and say, yes, I would like to do that. That's where the appeal lies. Now, I still think in those scenarios, these tools are still bad because the pros that they create is fairly easily detectable by people who are exposed to a lot of it as not being from a human . And it also encourages not people not to proofre ad and it allows them to just say, Oh, I just send it someone else wrote it for me. I'm sure it's fine . There are very few scenarios where none of your participation is required. For example, you don't want to have the chatbot write a thing for you and then you never read it a road and then you just hit send, that's going to end badly for everybody involved. And to be clear, I don't endorse these features, but I understand why some people see them and desire them. And I could say, oh, you shouldn't desire them because it's bad. But I understand why they desire them because lots of scenarios, again, people are people have to accomplish something that is not expressing themselves or their ideas or anything that they know, which is sad but true. And so I mean the real solution is don't put people in those scenarios and don't require them to do that. But I mean this was one of the sadder parts of the keynote phrase and like you can right click a document and it will write some crap for you. And it's just like every bone in my body says don't do that, but then I understand why that feature exists. So it's grim . Yep . They talked about apps and basically this is kind of like the grab bag section . Safari . Apparently they've been looking at your safari windows, John, again, everything's coming out coming up Mailhouse . You can organize tabs by topics. And then as you browse, it will automatically add new tabs into these like, I don't know, macro tabs or I didn't get the terminology, but I don't know why you think this is for me as I discussed the thing last episode we talked about the rumor of this feature. I don't think I would ever use this feature. I got to manually arrange everything. But I know you wouldn't. But you have certain fri gging tabs. Yeah. Maybe it's just full of people if it works well. We'll see. It depends on how they implement it. If they implement it in an automated way that it just happens to people and either it'll drive some people nuts or they'll say, why does it keep rearranging my tabs and everyone has to go and learn how turn it off ? Or it will satisfy some people. We'll see. All right . Safari lets you well, we'll let you automatically monitor a page with a new feature called Notify Me as someone who as part of my container or my collection ou containers , I run this thing called change detection. Io, which there is a hosted version , but there is also a version you can run in a it container. What this basically does is it lets you monitor web pages that perhaps don't emit RSS feeds or whatever the case may be. It'll let you monitor for like things being available for sale that weren't before . Their marketing website is pretty pretty crappy, but I'll put a link in the show notes. This is an incredibly useful tool for me. I think we talked about way back when that the reason I got a unifiedvel rou Tterra, which by the way is what I'm talking to you through right now is because I had this thing checking like every sixty seconds on Unified's website to see if it was available or not. Anyways, that is now a part of Safari or if you squint anyway, it's a part of Safari with their notifying me feature. So Safari have to be running. You have to have a Mac that's not asleep or maybe it works in sleep. Like that's the question. I would assume so monitoring. And you bring this upcase. I think I talked to you about this a couple of weeks ago because I wanted to do something similar. I ended up just vibe coding something. I was checking the menu of a local sandwich place to see if the sandwich see if there's specials included the sandwich that I like that they rarely put on special. So this is big big, casey energy right here and I'm so proud of you. Yeah, it was yeah, they have a special, which is an egg salad BLT, which I thought should have been on their menu. Thought it should have been on their menu all the time, but it's not a food that I have a lot. Like they put it on their menu like once every couple months. But anyway, I kept missing it. So I'm like, I'm just going to set a monitor for this and I declined your docker container and I was going to vibe it myself. But of course, they had switched to some third party menu provider that it's like a single page web app where the actual rendered page has like two tags in it and it's all JavaScript generated. And so I had to find their back end JSON thing, but their back end JSON thing is authenticated. So I had to find a way to fake the authentication so I can get an authenticated request for their JSON backend. And it worked. It told me when the Excel BLT was available, and I bought it recently and it was disappointing. And so I disabled it. Oh no. Wait, this sandwich was disappointing. They lost somehow the eggout was bad. I don't know if they put too much dill in or something, but I was really disappointed. So I took off my monitoring, but anyway, this is obviously I think if more people knew about this, like if it wasn't just nerds like vibe coding something or using a docker container or going to change technique, I think this could be useful for people. But I do wonder if it's going to require them to keep their Mac from going to sleep. That is fair. And possibly the scariest thing that I saw the entire keynote and the internet was all over this , passwords, the app can automatically fix websites that have been compromised or where you've used the same password multiple times. That is incredible and also very scary . But I think it's the right idea. I mean, I applaud them going down that road. I don't think I would ever use it, but that's just me. I think the only way they can do that, like the passwords app has supported since its introduction, I think, the all of the various dot well known URLs where there's like there's like RFCs for this where it's like, if you have a website and you have a password system , you should support these endpoints even if they just redirect and it's like slash dot w hyphen k n o wN slash blah blah blah where it's like change passwords, set password, blah blah blah . And I think most sites just implement udZrex, but the point is a lot of sites don't implement that at all. And I think the passwords app can only help you with websites to support these well known URLs . I'm not sure because I just saw keynote, so we'll find out when this thing ships, but I would be terrified if passwords just tried to do it for any old website because if you've ever gone to any old website and tried to change your password, as a human, it's hard to figure out how to do it a lot of the times. So I'd have very little what they would present to you is, hey, you have five passwords that suck. Do want to fix all five and you hit one button and then magic happens and it updates your passwords on five websites. As a human, me updating five bad passwords on five websites takes me a long time and it's frustrating. I don't think a machine can do it unless they all support those. Well known URLs. Yep. Let's see what else. They talked about how Calendar will have fantastical style natural language input , which I am very much here for. I think that's great. But it already had that, which was interesting. I mean, I guess now on suck is bad. Right. Yeah, that's the thing. It did, but it was very bad. They said that when you are in the phone app and if you are calling a business and I'm not clear how they know any of these things , but they will try to surface like relevant information. So the example they gave is, hey, I'm calling, let's say, Delta to change a flight , Sir thei will surf ace your most recent flight information, including like a confirmation number or whatever. Or they'll surface the wrong flight information if you have flights and this is the most recent email. This is the danger of these agents of giving you just in time data. Like I like that it's doing it and in a demo, the most recent email complaints your flight number. But what if you've scheduled a bunch of different flights and they're round trips and there's different flight numbers and you're on the phone and you're like, yeah my flight is one two three four five because that's what it says in the phone app but it's totally wrong. It's not that flight. It may require you as a human to go to your mail app, find the mail, look at the information in the mail and say, Is this the flight or is this my wife's ticket or is this the return flight? Demos . Yep. Who would ever have more than one flight information in their email thing. Setting aside whether and we'll get to this maybe in the next episode whether or not Siri can see your email because what if you don't use the mail app? That is very fair. They talked about the home app , sure, like they said, one of the things that they'll do, which is cool if it works, but I'm very skeptical that the crap home app and the crap seri put together will somehow be a polished diamond, but here we go. They said that they will basically coalesce disparate notifications. So like, you know , Mikaela crossed into the driveway, went to the front door, walked in the front door, the front door was open, the front door was closed. That is all coalesced until like Mikayla came home, you know, or something along those lines. You get the idea. The Google apps do this already. They do it themselves by just sending a single notification with a summary in it, but it seemed like the feature they were, I can't tell the feature they were describing is that hey we'll take arbitrary apps notifications and then summarize them and condense them into one. Or were they saying now the home apps acts more like the Google app in that it will not send twenty five notifications, it will coalesce them and send one notification with a summary. That's a subtle difference, but you are right, and I'm not sure which one it is. It also said that they would basically do they would put together clips from compatible cameras is what they said to like make one event out of multiple perspectives. And then speaking of the whole internet, the whole internet lost their minds about a raccoon. I think I was looking down and typing, so I missed what happened. What the heck is this about? Someone delivers a fruit basket to house and is caught on camera from seven different angles and said Robert arrived in save your fruit basket. So I guess it did facial recognition or whatever. And then saw it with a fruit basket, and then he puts the fruit basket on the table and then what I presume is a stunt raccoon, or as many people said, an AI generated raccoon, but it looked real to me, but who can tell . A raccoon in the middle of the day probably has rabies comes up and crawls onto the table and gets at the fruit basket immediately by the way. Like with no delay. The raccoon was already there waiting. Again, raccoons generally shouldn't be out and active during the day. And if they are, you should stay away from them, but I wouldn't eat that fruit . Also, like I was, I didn't quite know like I was expecting the summarized, you know, the summary of it to then be updated to say and then a raccoon came on the table or something. But it didn't. So it kind of made the feature look bad, I think. Yeah. I think they were saying that the notification, like the same notification would update and show different content as new things happened, which I think would be something new because the Google app can't do that. The Google App sends you notification that says three people walk dogs in front of your house or something, right ? But yeah, maybe they just didn't fit that into the demo. The stud raccoon is probably not a thing that will come up in your life. Probably not. But for what it's worth, Marco, one of the things they specifically did say was that they and actually, I guess that answers John's question, they said that as new notifications arrive, it will update the coalesced notification with new information. And to your point, I guess it didn't happen in this case. Cameras finally get four K revolution resolution, excuse me, home kit cameras can or home kit secure video can now do four K They did the thing that they everyone knew that they would, natural language description to create short cuts . They talked about image playground, and basically this is all stuff that I don't care about except that you can now use photorealistic output for the first time. Remember everything used to be very cartoony deliberately. now it just looks like what everyone thinks of as a generated imagery. Like they did the little sample they showed you of like a bunch of thumbnails . You're right that they do look more photoreal than the intentionally cartoony ones used to, but they all kind of look a little AI like that this was another, this was the part where they put like the birthday person in an outfit and put candles on the cake and stuff, right? Is that the section? I think so. No, I think way . I just the novelty value of AI generated imagery has not had particularly amazing staying power, especially since the model s are still producing imagery that people are currently able to detect as having been AI generated. If and when they surpass that and people can't tell anymore, I feel like the stigma will leave a little bit, but right now, I think there is kind of a stigma. If you were to AI generate an image and send it to somebody , you're better off sending them a terrible low resolution meme from nineteen ninety seven than you are AI generating a pristine photorealistic version of grandma and a skateboard on the half pipe, like the little thing they said. The amusement value of that, I feel like is already diminishing culturally. But I think the upshot of this section is image playground, the images no longer suck. That's what it comes down to. Because image generation, Apple was massively behind and their new image generator is no longer embarrassingly behind. You can actually generate imagery that looks like middle of the road im age generation from any of the contemporary products in this Apple demo. We'll see how it does. But again , if people want to generate an image, are they going to launch image plug? If they know it exists , if they know that it's here on their Mac. Is anybody going to actually use this stuff? No. Well, for the people who are currently generating AI generated images because they amuse them, whatever image generated they're already using, I don't feel like this is going to displace them. All right, so then they did the photos section. You can enhance images in ways that respect the original moment. They said word for word. You can clean up, you can extend, so you can add space around the image. Pretty much everyone has a story about how they wanted it, including You John. I feel like you've talked about this. I've been using other apps to do this for years. It is very useful, especially for doing wallpapers, like 'cause your phone is really tall, and I didn't want my family's faces to be covered by the clock, right? So I would always add stuff and there's tons of apps to do this. Again, I usually use Pixelmator or sometimes use Photoshop or whatever. But yes, this is a feature they should add to photos. I think it's a huge thumbs up. The extend feature is great for being able to add a little background where you need it. Yeah. And then you can also reframe and you can do a spatial reframing, which I think as a technological case study or like as an engineering case study, this is so fre aking cool. And I know that the people who are better photographers than me, which is almost everyone, took some issue with this, and I will let you talk about that in just a second, but I think this is incredible. So what you do is you take a photo and it doesn't have to be captured with an Apple device . It can be just a regular photo from like my Olympus Micro four thirds camera. And it will compute and figure out the depth that was captured in that photo and you can basically around drag, the photo around to reposition where the person taking the picture was within this three D space. I bet you, this is not going to work near as well as it looked on the keynote, but what they showed on the keynote was incredible . And I really also liked that as you're dragging around and repositioning things during the interactive part of it , the areas that generate a fill would fill in are kind of like a whitish bl . And so they're not like computing it of course as you're moving things around, but you're getting a very clear indication of how much of this image is about to be blurred. I think this is incredible if it even cl ose to works . However, I do completely understand everyone's complaints about this, which I will let either one of you, I guess, John, perhaps take over why this is upsetting to people. Well, being upsetting to people is just like, o,h don't take your photos and like AI generate stuff on them and just let the photos be what they are. But here's my take on it, which is, I guess, perhaps even more cynical . And that is that no feature can make people care about framing photos. That's my take. Like the idea that people can look at a photo and detect in any way that it is poorly framed, I think is false. I know this from every other person who's not a photographer in my life. They take photos that are incredibly poorly framed and they do not care. Not only do they not care, they can't tell. They can't distinguish a well framed photo from a not well framed one. They don't care that their photos are badly framed. They don't care that people have a pole coming out of their head. They don't care that it's ninety eight percent background that no one cares about, they don't care that it's shot up at an unflattering angle. Like with the exception of like people taking selfies where they're trying to make themselves look hot or whatever, for the most part, when people take pictures in groups, I cannot convince anybody in my life to care how photos are framed. Now, it's great that this picture says like, Oh, let you reframe it, like you said, Casey, like virtually change where the person might have been standing so that the poll isn't coming out of of the top their head because if you took it from two feet to the left, the pole would be off to the side of them. But just getting people to understand that it's bad to have a pole coming here out of your head in the picture is insane. Now, you know what, the main thing that can make your pictures better with respect to framing is, it's called cropping and it existed for the life of the iPhone . Nobody does it because they do not know that their pictures are poorly framed. Like cropping is the number one thing you can do to your picture. You know, again extend ing over if you actually got it too close that you can extend now. So that's a cool AI feature, but most of the time people make the opposite mistake. There's too much background, you're not centered . The camera is tilted, blah blah blah and people don't care. So I think extend is the best feature here. Cleanup is the second best reframe is a little bit silly and is going to make people ruin their pictures a little bit. But here's the thing, because people don't care about how pictures are framed, have you show them that, they're like, Oh, that's cool. And if I think about it for two seconds, they'll be like, well, does it even do that? But I don't see them driven to use the feature because like it's not solving a problem they have. They're like, well, it's neat that you can do that. And I get how it's kind of like amazing in future because how does it know what's behind my head? They can't see it. Oh, it's making it up with the computer. That's amazing. But the question they would ask is, but why would I ever want to do this? I can already crop, I can already extend, I could see why I might want to use those if I ever wanted to touch my photos at all . So yeah, I think I think reframe. I know they're excited about it and it's the coolest tech, but I think clean up and extend are the highlight features. I think they mean this raises some interesting questions that we've been fighting as an industry for a long time now of like what is a photo? Is it cheating? Is it misleading? Is it fake? And I think everybody draws that line in a little bit different place . Apple so far, I think has done a pretty good job of finding that balance with their feature set they've chosen. And by the way, I would say Apple, one of the things Apple does really well here is all of their edits are non destructive. So you can always revert to original. And that provides a level of surety about what the real photo is versus the edited that lot s of other applications don't provide. Absolutely , yeah. But you know, I think like where I come down on it, which I think is basically where Apple comes down on it is like I don't think it's great to have to have tools that can make photo realistic images of things that didn't really happen and pass them off as things that did happen . You know and to be able to edit your photos create a moment that didn't exist and was pretty far from existing . I think that is questionable and tricky . But like if you are using editing, whether it's AI or older methods like photoshopping and tweaking colors and stuff like that, like if you're using editing to create a misleading picture, that's morally questionable, and that's a problem. But if you're using editing to make the image that you were trying to capture better , but it's still it's still depicting a moment that occurred and these tools are just helping you depict that moment better , I think that's generally fine. Now, again, everyone draws that line in different ways. To some people, like adjusting the color and contrast of an image would be misleading and creating a fake scene that never really existed . To some people using tools like where it extends like this where you're creating entire parts of a scene that not only weren't in the frame but might not actually exist in real life that way . Some people think that is over the line. Some people think that like it's fine to delete a trash can in the background or a person who was walking in the background that is not really your subject. Some people think that's wrong. I think I generally land where Apple lands with this. And I think they have found a good balance so far of the tools they have offered in photos editing to generally maximize like the value to the person without too much fraud . Yeah . So I think that's basically it in terms of features. There's a few more things to talk about, of course, but any other features we want to discuss before I move on? I'm just I'm really excited to get into all these OS and just start using them because like all those giant word cloud slides they had this time really. does It seem like they had a really great goal in mind here of tackle everything every small thing, find a bunch of small stuff and tackle it. I love that idea . And then I hope also that all of these new APIs that we've gotten for all the new AI stuff, I hope this enables a lot of cool little improvements in apps. I think it can , we will see, you know, the first generation foundation models enabled a little bit of fun stuff, not a ton. Let's see what the second generation can do. There's still a bunch of limits because they're still on device. The better models still only run on as, I mentioned earlier, like a pretty small number of pretty recent devices. So that could be a question mark for a while. But I actually like that there's a whole bunch of little improvements some pretty interesting API improvements for us to play with. But as we were as we were talking about last week about like reward versus homework basically , it seems like the homework side of it this year is pretty small . That's awesome that gives all of us now the ability to do to our apps what it seemed like Apple was focusing on on their apps for the last year, which is make things better. Just overall just a building year . That's really nice. You tricked Marko into giving his final job and again, but we're still not up to it. One more thing about the Apple Intelligence things, which they gave vague answers about and they had more stuff later, which is usage limits. This is a question a lot of people had going into this. We forgot to discuss it in the preview thing, which is do you have to pay money for this stuff? Because historically speaking, lots of the LLM powered stuff that we do, especially at the cutting edge costs money. There's a free version of it, but the free version's not as good as the one you pay for, is Apple going to charge money for some of these things. And here's what they had to say about that. They said not exact words, that daily usage limits apply to some features. This is a direct quote from Apple, thank the press release, some Apple intelligence features, including image generation, have daily usage limits because they rely on powerful server models. Increased access is available with most iCloud plus subscription plans, which also include Apple Intelligence support for compatible home cameras. So this is super vague, and this is really kind of an inversion of the industry standard for the past several years, which has been , hey, we have a new subscription for you to pay for or we've increased the price of your subscription. But guess what? The new subscription or the increased price of the subscription, it comes with these AI features that you didn't ask for. Apple's doing the opposite. You're already paying for iCloud plus. Well, guess what? If you're already paying for it, we increase your usage limits on a thing that you didn't have before, which is the ability to use our powerful server models to do image generation. The bottom line is that a lot of these features that were shown here that are not running on device cost Apple money to run . And it's always the question of like, well, shouldn't Apple just eat that cost and we get it all for free? And at a certain point, even Apple can't eat it anymore. I mean, what do you expect more than five gigs of free iCloud storage? No. So now they're going to be running inference for you for free on their on sl thereash Google servers up to a point. And we just we talked about like the IWork apps had those ridiculous limits where you could do like make two slide decks and your usage was up. So we'll see what the limits are, we'll see where the rubber meets the road, but I do like the idea of them saying some of you are already paying us a subscription. We you'll get more stuff because you're already paying us. And I don't think there's they didn't announce anything that said, Oh and by the way, all your superptcionsom are going up to account for the AI features that you may never use. So far, they haven't said that. All they said is if you pay us, your limits will be higher. I give that a thumbs up. And in general, the economic reality of, oh, so you want to do cutting edge stuff with LLMs? Well, it turns out that costs money because someone's got to pay it. And right now we're all sort of gliding on VC's paying for a lot of it for us because these companies just get investor money and charge people to use it, but the price they're charging is not yet potentially paying for what it costs to give out because they're still in their growth phase. I'm not sure where Apple is on the spectrum. Like obviously we've gone over that they have not spent the hundreds of billions dollars of everyone else does, but those servers and those data setster aren't free. Someone's got to be paying for that . And somehow that cost has to be paid by margins on Apple devices, by existing iCloud plus subscriptions. This will be a tricky balance and you know, hours after the keynote, I don't know where they're going to land. Their statement is very vague, but in case you were wondering , someone is going to be paying something for some things. It's not offering . Also, there's a there's a different side of the cost situation here, which is developers , it seems like have access in certain APIs to the private cloud compute models, but like they said there's like if you get the first two million installs of your app, you don't pay up to a certain rate. And then they just didn't say what happens after that. There's been APIs like that. Like a lot of the cloud cup ones are like that too where like, oh up to a sum limit, it's all free. Yeah, weather weather works that way too. I mean, and there's and they also said somewhere around like, you know, for iCloud plus subscribers , they get higher limits, but is that for you and your app too? It seems like it might have been. So I think there's this is going to be a pretty weird and complicated pricing situation for developers for a little while . And I don't like I would never make an app based on the assumption that I would stay under that cap forever. Like I would always have that in the back of my mind like what happens when I cross that if I cross that two million installations mark , what happens to my cost model that I've made this app based on the way Apple has done it with other APIs though, well, I'm not sure about the weather API, but the Cloud Kit ones doesn't get charged against the user? Like it's their iCloud account that they would have to upgrade if they want to use it more. CloudKit does, but weather doesn't. So there's a bunch of what ex likeist thiss more more like like is it cloud or something more like the weather? I think it's going to be more like the weather, but they haven't really given a full and who knows when they're going to announce full pricing. Probably not for at least a little while, but the weird thing about pricing about these services like the things we mentioned, the weather API and cloud and stuff, I don't think there's been a lot of motion in the limits the cost structure. Whereas charging for AI inference , that's not a static pricing landscape in twenty twenty six . Like it has already changed and it is going to because we get better doing inference, but then the models get bigger. Like it's not the type of thing that Apple can set in stone in twenty twenty six and just say we're never going to change this pricing structure because that is so out of touch with where we are with this technology. It's changing from day to day moment to moment. Like who knows where this will go? It could go massively up, could go massively down, the bubble could burst and everything could go up as huge a price or there could be a breakthrough and inference and everything gets cheaper or who could have predicted all the RAM and SSD prices? Like this is not an area where Apple can say here's the pricing structure and then just never revisit it. I mean, they could be a terrible idea. So please Apple, don't do that. Please hammer, don't hurt . Also, there was a couple of mentions in the keynote and then later a document on Apple's newsroom . And it says from in this document, due to the Digital Markets Act or DMA, Apple will not be able to ship Siri AI in the European Union with the release of IOS twenty seven and iPad OS twenty seven. Over the past several months, EU regulators did not accept any of Apple's proposed solutions to bring Siri AI to the EU while safely supporting other virtual assistance . Quote, We're deeply disappointed that our EU users won't have Siri AI on iPhone or iPad when we share our new software releases later this year, quote, said Craig Federigi, Apple's senior vice president of Software Engineering. Quote, our hope is to eventually bring Seri AI to the EU, and we will continue to engage with the regulators on a path forward. However, their refusal to engage constructively on solutions that preserve privacy and security means we do not currently have a timeline for Series A I's availability on IOS and iPadOS in the EU, quote. I don't know if there was another press release for China, but they did mention in the keynote. Also, we don't know how this is going to work in China and it won't be available there until we work something out with the Chinese government. So this is not really any news. Apple continues to fight with the EU about all things related to its platform. Yep, I do think it was quite quite funny. I don't know, it's hard for me to have a reasonable and unbiased opinion about this because I am I think I've been described in the past as the most American American, which is not something I'm proud of these days, but nevertheless, I don't know. I do think this is this is funny if, nothing else because, it's two, you know, unstoppable forces, you know, approaching each other and I don't know, I don't feel like anyone's gonna this is like a lot of the past issues. Like Apple theoretically has a point which is which is to allow third party LLMs to have the same access that RLM has would be a security concern on the phone. But then the use point is, yeah, that's the whole point of the thing. Whatever access you have, other companies should give access to because it's anti competitive if only you can do the fancy things on your phone, how is anyone ever going to compete with Siri on your phone? Like this becomes not an avenue for competition because if you' strre aanglehold on the market, like and that's where they meet each other. They bud heads, which is like, okay, the EU wants competition. And Apple has, yeah, but hey, we don't want competition. We're not going to say that, but we don't want competition. And B, it's difficult for us to figure out how to give competition because we as the, platform owner, have such incredibly invasive access to everything and we trust ourselves because we're trustworthy, but we don't trust these other companies. And as a consumer, you can like, well, I kind of get where they're coming from because I wouldn't want, you know, Facebook to have unfettered LLM access to my phone to read all my information and do anything they want . But on the other hand, I also don't want the IOS and Apple platform landscape to always be limited by whatever idea Apple has about something . So Apple says, Well, we came up with a solution. We came up with this trusted platform thing or whatever. And it's just kind of like the different browser engines. Like we came up with a secure way for people to compete with us . And that is just a way, not just a way, but that is also a way for Apple to have a little knob that says, oh, if the competition gets too tight, just turn the snow . Because we control everything we control the way third parties access the stuff that we let them access and we control how much they access and we control what they have to do and we approve their apps and we're going to force them to jump through all these hoops and like the third party stores will make it so onerous that no one will ever want to compete with us. That's the cynical take and the other take is but on the other hand you don,'t want those things to have complete access to the phone. So no one is completely in the right here. Both parties have difficulty. I mean, the EU is trying to do the right thing, but not understanding the constraints in Apple is trying to maintain control while also complying with the law, and they're failing to do that. The people who set the law say you are not complying with it. And Apple can disagree, but Apple doesn't make the laws. So this is kind of a bummer for the EU, and I'm not sure what the Chinese situation is there, but it's probably more grim and that maybe they want Chinese LLMs to have access to the phone to the same degree that Apple does. Yeah, it's not a good situation. It's just a repeat of all the other things we've had. And the upshot is people in the EU don't get these features. So folks in the EU will try it out for you and tell you if it sucks or not. I think that's mostly it. As we mentioned earlier, there was no turnus. And then at the very very end, Tim had his personal note where he just basically said the things you would expect him to say . And then there was a music video at the very end, but we're going to talk about that in the aftershow. Anything else before we wrap on WW DC twenty twenty six. I thought that the Tim Goodbye thing at the end was the perfect encapsulation because first of all , like , you know, Apple , we all know that Apple is , you know, that they release new phones in September and that the OS are announced the OS shipped, you know, right before that, like a week before that. We know that , but Apple won't even say it. They won't say it in the video ships in September. No, they said ships in the fall . You know, everyone knows when it ships, but they won't say it. Everyone knows at this point, if you can see like we'll talk about it in a little bit over time. There's probably a foldable iPhone coming up , but Apple won't say it. They pretend like it's still a big secret and they uphold the secret. And that's how they are with a lot of things. In this case, I think Apple is pretending that this is not Tim Cook's last event officially like to in hosting . But everybody and I think the only reason they would pretend that way is because they don't like to they don't like to like transmit their future plans. They don't like to say look, we all know that even though an announced John Turner was going to be CEO on september first, we all know that the next event is probably going to be like a week after that . So they won't say that. Even though again, everyone knows it. It's the pattern they've kept for years. Well, I think you just called out the distinction here. The difference about saying when the event is because that's unannounced. They want to keep their options open. Why would you commit to something when you're not sure whether you're going to hit that deadline? Who knows what could happen between now and number. Whereas the CEO transition , they did commit to a date. They wrote it in the press release. There's an exact day so. it And's two different things there. I think the main reason they didn't talk about the transition, even though it has been one hundred percent announced is because it would distract from the announcement. Like if Tim Cook had said anything, if he had done a big heartfelt, this is my last thing and I can't believe this is the last time I'm ever going to talk to you and blah blah blah blah blah that would be there would be stories about that. And by being Tim Cook and saying a word salad that doesn't say anything significant, he's sure that there's not going to be a separate story about his statement at the end of the pres entation. And so far, I haven't seen one because it's impossible to write about. Well, yeah, yeah, but that is like by them not being willing to just come out and say, yeah, we that you know that this is Tim's last event. We're not going to say that. Everyone knows it, including Tim and all of us, but we won't actually say it. And then what we will say is, you know, as you said, standard Tim Cook Fare . It's vaguely pleasant and fairly content free, but word salad. Yeah, I respect what he was trying to do . You know, the the iconography of him standing below the giant rainbow at Apple Park while he has massively kissed up to the Trump regime that has fought against queer rights at every single turn and continues to do so during Pride month at that . I think that that was a perfect encapsulation of the end of Tim Cook's reign. Yep. I think you're right . All right, well, thank you for sticking with us for W DC twenty twenty six. We still have an aftershow and overtime to come, but I'm excited. I'm excited. I know we've already done our closing remarks like thrice, so I will just say, I'm excited. I haven't done mine once yet. All right, John, close it forward. All right. I did. Beginning, I basically gave the summary version, but I'll just re wrap it up here because we're at the end. The reason I was so excited about everything that was shown here is because every single thing that they announced makes something better. And I know that's a low bar , but it reminds me of the scene that I think I brought've up on this very show in the past from the movie American History X, where the main character who is a skinhead white supremacist Nazi kind of guy is I think he's in jail at this point and something terrible happens to him in jail and he's in a hospital bed and like this guy's talking to him as like his advisor or whatever. And it's like he's hock bottom. He's at his lowest point. He's a skin head. He committed crimes. He's in jail. He's having a terrible experience in jail. He's still unrepentantly racist and terrible and this like his mentor or guide or whatever his black friend is trying to convince him, hey, don't be a Nazi. It sucks . And so he's on the hospital bed and the guy says to him, has anything you've done made your life better ? Which is the exact right time to propose that question to this person to sort of get some perspective and see clarity ? And I feel like the last W WDC , part of the reason I was so upset about MacOS twenty six in particular but a lot of the twenty six OS things is it didn't feel like they were making things better. They made a bunch of stuff worse for no good reason . And it's not so much the things they made worse, like broke the world. Oh, it's unusable, blah, blah, blah, it wasn't that bad. It was fine. Like you could get around with it, but like the idea they would spend an entire year working on something that did not make their OS better pained me at my core . And so this WWDC pretty much every single thing they announced makes their products better. Assuming it works the way they say it does. But there's nothing I saw that was like oh no, don't do that. That will make your products worse . Now they were helped by making things so much worse last year, that merely improving on that, not even getting back to where they were before , but merely fixing some of the problems from last year does count as making something better , even if the state that it exists in the twenty six OS still isn't as good as it was in IOS sixteen or seventeen or something , but it's the trend. Like that's the thing when people complain to me, oh you hate these OS it's so much or whatever. They're not that bad. They're fine. You can use them. I've said this from day one. It's not actually that b ad. The upsetting thing is the direction. Directionally, it is upsetting to see people intentionally bad ideas to make things worse. And pretty much every single thing in this keynote was using good ideas to make things better by small amounts and possibly they won't work the way they were shown or whatever, but at least everything they were showing and there's a lot of it, as we noted, the word clouds, all the big list of things that they're doing, like they didn't even have time to put it all in. There's so much stuff, all these little things, all the things that get the applause lines. I mean, all the things where Casey's writing in the notes like hell yes to cashing on async images, like developer stuff, they're like, yes, finally, I've always wanted that API, I've always wanted that capability. I've always wanted to head keywords on my phone to the Photosap. I've always wanted to be able to extend the frame and not use a third party every single thing in this keynote is making something better. That's boring for people. But where's my foldable phone? Where's my VR headset? Where's my, you know, M five Mac studio, right? I get it. I get it why people are not excited by this. This fall, we already shipped it and you didn't like it and probably next year . Yeah . But just man , I like I love that's why I'm excited about this. I love that everything I'm seeing. And as I go look for more stuff, watch some sessions, learn about this, look at the documentation. I'm like, that's better. That's going to be improved. That's going to be cool. And this is a very familiar feeling for me because that's what WWC always used to be like. It's like whatever came before it, whatever they announced at WWC and all the sessions and the keynotes and all that stuff, it was like let me tell you all the ways that things are gonna be better. And boy, does that feel good after last year? Yeah , that's really well touched on. Thank you to our sponsors this week, Squarespace and Claude. And thanks to our members who supporters directly Can join us at ATP FM slash join. One of the perks of ATP membership is ATP Overtime, our weekly bonus topic. This week on overtime, we're going to be talking about some updates that are popping up about the foldable iPhone. We're going to be covering that in overtime because we just couldn't cram it into this episode . Join now to listen AT FM slash join. Thanks everybody and we'll talk to you next week . Now the show is over They didn't even mean to begin 'cause it was accidental . Accidental it was accidental. John didn't do any research. Marco and Casey wouldn't let him because it was idental . Accidental it was accidental idental and you can find the show notes at ATP . FM and if you're into Mastodon , you can follow them at CAS EYL ISS so that's KC Lis M A RC O ARM Anti Marco Armen SIR AC USA Syracuse is accidental accidental mean accidental accident So Casey, you're famous . This is amazing. I don't know if I would go quite that far , but it was a very unusual end of the keynote. So I'm sitting there and the state of the world for me was I was in the main living area of the house that we're staying in and I was watching the keynote on the TV because I'm me, you know, I brought an ancient Apple TV with me and I've, you know, I'm watching the keynote on the TV, I'm typing out notes and on my laptop. And I'm starting to send a text to Erin as Tim is up saying, Hey, the three of you, you know, the three of them were at the beach, you know, maybe I can pop down for a little bit before the state of the Union. I think it's ending now. You didn't see my message before you left? Well, so right as I send that , all of a sudden, Tyler Stalman and Jason Snell both send me text at the exact same moment. Tyler's was two exclamation points and Jason's was call sheet in the keynote . And that's all I knew. And I don't understand because they're like a minute to two before me because they're in the audience. And I don't understand how this is possible. I assumed that I missed something. Yeah, right. At this point it's over. I just told Erin, I'm going to come down to the beach. I think I was like ten seconds ahead of you, which is why I knew I knew I was seeing it before you did. So I immediately typed into the window so you would see it. But at that point, I think you'd already got up and left. Yeah, usually the Apple TV stream is like is like, you know, ten or fifteen seconds behind the online stream, which itself is, you know, probably a good minute behind the in person stream. And I got the info from live people too. The reason I had it faster, much faster than you is I got it from a live person. Okay. So in any case, so I get out my phone and I am so sad because I think Tyler said it to me but I didn't notice until it was all over . Oh yeah, so Tyler sends the two exclamation points to which I replied with an ellipsis and a question mark. And he sends a photo of the presentation, but at this point, of course, it had long since moved on. And so I see something, like the screen is fairly far away from him, and I see that there's some gentleman in like a couple of like round wrecks on the screen and Tyler asks are you watching? And I said, I'm seeing Tim doing his wrap up to which he said, but I didn't see this until after. Oh, keep watching, record it and your reaction, which I'd so deeply wish I'd seen that because that's what I should have done. But in the heat of the moment, as my heart rate is spiking because I don't know what's about to happen, but apparently something's going down. I take out my phone and I record the TV because I don't know what else to do. Like in retrospect, I should have recorded myself, but whatever. And I record the TV and all of a sudden they after Tim fades out, they have like app reciation by was it Eric the architect, I believe? And so this is this guy standing in what vaguely looks like an office see kind of receptiony area and he starts wrapping. All I need is good reads and some better sleep. And you start seeing these app icons pop up. I keep it calm so these drafts stay in callsheet. And O,K can you put drafts in call sheet? Well, not Greg Pierce's drafts. No , but I don't care because this was one of the coolest things I have had happen to me in a fairly long time because they're on the Apple keynote, admittedly after it was kind of sort of over, but on the Apple keynote is Jelly's icon for call sheet, floating in space and approaching the camera a little bit or I guess the camera was approaching it I didn't even know what to do with myself. You know, like my heart is racing. At this point, my phone fucking exploding. I am getting text messages from any vague Apple person in my life. Like if you were even vaguely aware of Apple enough to watch the keynote, every one of them sent me a text and they were all very kind and very excited. It was so wonderful . And I'm trying to process this all. Meanwhile, I'm calling Erin and she's on the beach. As far as she knows, I'm about to walk down to the beach potentially. And I said, call she was in the keynote, and she was like, wait, what? So So and I don't remember what words I said to her, but I would presume that approximately none of them made any sense. And I'm not gonna put her on the spot and get her on the mic because that would be way too awkward. But suffice to say, I think I made almost no sense. And she's like, just stay there and handle whatever's going on there and we're going to we're actually probably going to come up anyway so I will be up in a few minutes. And so I get through all my text messages and then I look at Indigo, which is my the multi platform app that I'm using these days, and my mentions are a dumpster fire, but for the first time in a long time, in a good way , which is a welcome change . So this was extremely cool and extremely unexpected. And I think perhaps the funniest bit of this whole thing , leaving aside the fact that we were not given the nod for the keynote, and yet here I am in the keynote, but whatever, or we were not given the nod to attend WWC, but here my app is in the keynote . But beyond that, Jelly Zoomed in a little bit , and Jelly noticed that the version of the icon they used is the one that actually has the Hunt Fred October on it and John McTernin and the release date and so on. At one point like a year, a year and a half ago, they had reached out, Apple had reached out to me and it said in so many words , do you have rights for this ? And like or is this kosher? And I was like, I don't know. So I had jelly whipped together an alternative version. They never asked me why and I actually don't think it related to this. They never asked me why they wanted this information, but I said, well , you know, I'm not sure if it's a hundred percent on the up and up to be and I forget how I phrased it. But I'm not sure if it's a hundred percent on the up, but here's a different version of it. And I think off the top of my head, it's like the hunt or the search forue B Olctober with the director listed as K AY CLIS, CELIS, which was one hundred percent jelly. It was incredible. So it's directed by KC Lis . And anyways, and so I may, I think that might even be the default . Iic haonven't thought about icons in a while, but they had this alternative completely fabricated version. The one that they used in the keynote video shares this is Huntford October by John McTiran, which I think is hilarious. Love that. But anyways, this was a completely surreal experience. I'm still not entirely sure what to make of it. And like, you know, because I'm me, in the one moment, I'm like, man , I really did make it. I really did it. Look at I really, you know, Joe , we did it, which is what I said to Jolly. You know, Joe, we did it. We did it. But then ten seconds later, I'm like, Oh, they just needed the right thing to rhyme with dirts or rhyme with whatever it was. I thought you were going to say, well, where's the call to action? tap on that to buy my thing. This is great . Is it going to turn to sales? Probably not. But it's so funny that my natural inclination is to just go from better sleep and call sheets, I guess, were vaguely rhyme. And I'm assuming that that's why they used my app is not because they feel like it's good or anything like that or they enjoyed the icon. It's just, oh, we needed something to rhyme with better sleep. No, they think it's good. Like there are lots of apps in the app store that honestly would have been a closer rhyme, right ? So no, just take this from what it is. It's cool. It's an honor and enjoy it. I mean, your app has been featured, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, I 'm assuming they were pulling from the apps that they had already editorially determ ined that are apps that they like . I think but it was wild to say the least. I'm very appreciative and very thankful. Now the other thing I noticed later on after I watched it for the eighteenth time . T theow endard of this like music video thing , what is Eric, the architect, I think is the gentleman's name is standing in a room and is holding what appear to be like foot one foot by one foot printouts, if you will, of these app icons and kind of like throwing them in, you know, and whatever . Let me be clear . I don't know that they ever printed one for call sheet. I never saw like one of these physical objects. For all I know maybe it would be CGI anyway . If this exists, I will give a testicle to have this in my house. Like I will do whatever it takes if this thing is real. I mean, you could probably get one made. Yes, but that's not the thing. It's not the real one. It's like the one from the video. It's not the object itself is not the thing. It's providence that's exactly it. Well , yeah, and I would assume they're composited, but it would be really cool if they weren't. Yep, exactly right. No, I think they printed I mean, obviously most of them are CG, but I think they probably have physical ones too. Yeah, well again, I don't believe yours was one of the ones that I only saw in CG. Exactly right. Although we should look at that big pile to see if Grock is in that pile on the floor . And we should also be of trust and safety. We've got to mention that trust in safety section. They're all this big about safety for children except when it comes to potentially banning Elon Musk's app that is used to take clothes off children. Yeah, it''ss it somehow. But also in the video we mentioned, you know, Greg Pearson Drafts , Curtis and Slopes was in it. And I think I feel like some of our other friends were in there someway at some point, but it was so wild and so cool and we'll put a link to the music video in the show notes. It comes at the very end of the keynote after Tim's outro or what have you . But I am so you know, it's one of those pinch pinch yourself moments. Like did that, did that just happen? Was that real? And it's very, very neat. And Craig Hockenberry, I'll try to dig up the tute for the show notes, but made a really interesting point. And it was meant in a really good way, which is exactly how I took it . But he said basically like, you know, one of the fun things about WWC in years past like several years ago now was the design awards, the Apple Design Awards. And you would be incredible because you would know, I feel like we knew the nominees, we didn't know the winners before WBBC . And a lot of people would go to the actual award ceremony where you would learn who the winner was. And the camaraderie and the congratulations and all that. That used to be so pivotal and important. I mean, Marco, you've talked about wanting one for years. Absolutely. And that used to be so much more important than I feel like it is now because now it's basically just a freaking email and that's all it is. And Craig was lamenting that. I think Craig is right , but one of the points that Craig made was that this being in the keynote in any capacity is kind of what the ADA has become, or that same feeling. You get that, we get that with our peers more from having like a flash in a keynote because really ultimately in this like two hour keynote, the word call sheet being said once and my icon appearing on the screen for like a hundred frames like, that's really not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, but it was the coolest thing that's ever happened to me. So it is kind of a big deal. But Craig is right, like the combination, the formula you need to make that experience is you need recognition from Apple and you need your peers to witness it. Yeah the old . The old in person one was the recognition from Apple was they gave you the award and your peers witness it because WW C used to be in person not just for a tiny select group of people who fit in Apple Park, but for like five thousand people. I know it's still a tiny fraction of the developer base, although in the early years that actually wasn't a tiny fraction, but anyway , being in front of like five thousand of your peers who care enough to buy an expensive plane ticket to San Francisco, they would get to witness you receiving your recognition from Apple. The venue for that now is not Apple Park because half the people that it's probably less than half that used to go to WWC or there and half of them are YouTube influencers who don't know who developers are anyway, right? They're just there because they think phones are cool and they have no idea who it's not just developer peers. Now it's mostly just like mainstream press who are interested in Apple products not, so much interested in developer stuff, whereas if you showed up, especially at the ADAs weren't in the keynote back in the day or at least a lot of the time they weren't in the keynote. They were separate thing. Who was still there at WWC? Who's going to go to the ADAs? It was developers. Like a mainstream YouTube influencer or equivalent from back in the day was not going to go to the ADAs at all because they didn't care. So the only way you have to get any recognition in front of your peers is you have to be in the keynote because every developer around the world is watching the keynote, not just the ones who are there people at Parker to see the same video we do. They just see it a little bit earlier, right ? And so this is it. This is the only venue we have for you to be recognized by Apple in front of your peers. Yeah, yeah, it felt really freaking good and I'm going to be riding this high for quite a while, I'm sure. And you know, it felt it felt pretty crummy not to get invited to WBDC. And I mean, we have been I think we already talked about this on the show. We are more commonly not invited than we are invited. So it is not unexpected to not get the invite, but I don't know, it hurts every time a little bit because I don't know, maybe I'm a child, maybe I'm just a person. I don't know, but it hurt a little bit but, this definitely turned that frown upside down and it is very cool. And I'm very, very appreciative. I don't know who at Apple made that happen, or I don't know if it was just that I got super lucky and Eric, the architect just needed to make that weird rhyme. But one way or another, however it happened, I'm going to choose to believe that it was a subtle nod and a subtle thank you in my general direction. And that's what I'm going to that's what I'm going to go to bed with. Based on the lyrics, I don't think the architect knows what your rap does, but I do think Apple presented him with a list of apps to incorporate into a rap song and your app was among them because Apple likes your app. Yeah, I sure hope so. But that wasn't the only video that happened today. There was posted to Exo or Twitter of all places, which really grosses me out. But Tim posted a video with a bunch of suggestions for how to open the keynote, which I kind of wanted to hate this because it's kind of silly and dumb in a bunch of w ays, but I actually kind of liked it. So this is a bunch of random celebrities basically telling him how to say good morning, which was very fun. It is so Marco's many point he's made several times. It is such a Tim Cook thing that his catchphrase is literally good morning because that's how he would hope when every keynote. And it's like looking for any sign of life or personality. It's like, well, you do say good morning every single time and you do have an accent that some people find amusing. So he said, good morning and his whatever it is. It's good morning . Yeah . Good morning. I can't do it. But anyway, I think the interesting thing about this video, obviously, this is like , you know, it's not a goodbye Tim video, but it is a Tim Dedicated segment in what we know to be his last thing or whatever . Many, many celebrities appear in this video saying the word good morning, many of them . How long have they been producing this video a year , a year and a half before he announced his retirement. How do you get the time? How do you even though you just got to stick a camera in their face for two seconds and say good morning, there's a lot of celebrities. They have busy schedules, just coordinating alone . We want to do a thing for Apple. Are you interested? Do you have time? It'll only take thirty seconds of your time. We might need a crew, blah, blah, blah, multiply that by fifteen A list actors . This must have been in the works for a long time. And so I feel like this is a lot of effort for a pretty silly segment. And the only reason it exists is because this is Tim Cook's last note. Yep. I don't know if I think it's more that Apple has a lot of connections to the celebrity world first through Apple Music and then later through Apple TV plus, which is now Apple TV on the Apple TV. I'm not saying people would refuse to do it, just logistically finding room and all of their calendars, it had to have taken six months. What if what if they just gave an intern a really big budget to go spend on a cameo? Here's the thing. If you've ever seen real cameos, the lighting is terrible. Like these were not that they were produced in their inner studio, but they all looked okay. Some of them look really good where I think they actually sent a crew, but cameos look like you can't even see anything and they're blurry and it's overly compress ed and they're like in their back room and it's echoe and these were all above that level. I don't know. I like I said, I wanted to hate it, but I thought it was kind of cute. And the other thing before we can't say this we have to show even though we can't say this over event thimoughe over istime about the foldable phone, but just to acknowledge a few of the things that these weren't in the keynote. And you know, obviously, there's tons of stuff that wasn't in the keynote, including the whole state of the Union that we'll get to in future episodes, but just in the people scrambling to notice things in the hours after the keynote aired , Vince on Massadam was the first person who I saw that saw this . Vince says, Of course , a tech note on optimizing app kit for sidecar touch interf aces. Definitely not for touchscreen MacBooks. And this is TN three , adopting gesture recognizer for sidecar touch support, and it reads in part in MacOS twenty seven, AppKit continues to standardize on gesture recognizers as the primary mechanism for input handling. This change directly affects sidecar, which by the way is the thing where you use an iPad as your secondary screen on your Mac affects sidecar because gesture recognizers are the only way to respond to touch input from a side car connected iPad running iPad OS twenty seven. This article explains how the gesture recognizer model works and how to implement gesture recognizers correctly for sidecar touch input and how to update your existing event handling code and which APIs MacOS twenty seven adds . Do you want to know how to add touch support to app kit controls? Well, you know, for sidecar, like obviously like such a common use case obviously with iPad. The iPad is a touch interface. And yes, you can use it as a second screen, but you know, you can touch the screen on the iPad. And if you have like an AppKit app and you're using someone's using a sidecar display, you might want to check out these new APIs we've added to App Kit for gesture recognition sidecar, though, for sidecar. Yeah, that's that's what it's for, obviously. So that so that is one of the least subtle things I've ever seen. Well done apple to because I was like, how are they gonna put that out? How are they gonna even talk about that? Oh yeah, sidecar. I have a friend who has a problem right for Sam Henry Gold writes IOS twenty six frameworks references fold state and angle degrees, but I'm sure that's nothing. Right. And Apple's put a lot of a lot of effort in WDC this years about resizable iPhone apps. Why would they want to resize the simulator to make an iPhone app really wide? When would that come up? I don't know. We'll talk about that. Interesting. And they showed in the demos of look, let me take this phone app and expand they the phone app to be like twice as wide. I'm like, wow, I mean like I know some phones are wider than others, but really, why would you ever make the simulator window twice as wide and they show like it changing from a one column to a two column? Interesting . So again, not particularly I mean this is such a land of leaks they used to have more of a lockdown in the days before like we're going to add, you know, we're going to make the iPhone six be wider or we're going to add some height to it in the iPhone five or whatever. They had a easier time keeping secrets then, but yeah , this is just from people downloading the SDK and like searching for things and finding full state and angled degrees is really something in the SDKs. I mean, did they even lead those symbols to go out. So yeah, foldable iPhone coming. Stay tuned to overtime for more on that because as the title of the Overtime segment known it says, the foldable iPhone takes shape literally . No. And somebody pointed out that there was also a lot of talk about origami in the state of the demo app was Origami. Yeah . What was that? I mean, it was a message it's just a messaging app or it's just a name. We pick it or it's just a name. For some reason we're thinking about folding a lot. So we didn't say it. one No said fold who said said full. They just origami.