Troubleshooting Apple Watch Notification Issues

How thanks. I just basically ran into the room. so busy is better than not busy, I would argue. Yeah, I think so. I am never bored. Like when when was the last time either of you were bored? Ooh, legitimately bored? Yeah. sometometimes on plane flights I get bored because I can't do anything on plane flights, like I can't watch a movie. I can only listen to podcasts and sometimes if it's a long plane flight, like you're podcasted out and then what's left Hm, That's fair. Yeah. And the thing about planes, too, is like, why don't you talk to the person next to you? I cannot hear damn thing on planes. Like forget about the noise canceling headphones. Just trying to have a conversation with the person next to me is like, I feel like I'm shouting. We're in a club. no none of us want to be here. Let's go somewhere quiet, but there's nowhere to go. Well also like the person next to you does not want that ever. Like they want to do that. I talkking about my wife Oh, okay. well, that may be true. That may be true, but still. Okay because she's got stuff to do. She's got a knitting projects, she's watching a movie, like having a ball, but I have to stare out the window at the horizon, so it kind of sucks.. Yeah, that's fair Yeah, I just I realize like You know, because of course, whenever you are around childildren and especially teenagers, you will frequently hear the complaint Bored And this seems to be something that only children really have because like with every spare moment of time I'm either choosing to do nothing. Like if I need to like if I need a break, Im like I'm going to stop and just watch TV for the rest of the night or whatever Or There's a million things I want to do with every ounce of time I have.ike I have so many projects going always all at once. I'm juggling a million different things. I have computer projects, I have three D printing projects. Of course, I have like know my actual work, my programming projects, multiple programming projects. I have the restaurant now which is open for the season. I have so many things going on all the time. There's a million things around my house that need to be done, like different projects and tasks and cleanups and everything. saying there's a millions things you haven't done Is that a reference to something? Just you wait Well done, John. well done. See whatever that is, I have to watch or listen to or experience that. That's fine. It's fine. justust keep just keep going. You've seen Hamilton, you just didn't it out I have not seen Hamilt. You haven ever seen Hamilton? I don't know I keep making Hamilton Rvereren says, but very frequently Marco says things that are so close to Hamilton. I'm just like, They can't be. Anyway, sorry That's it. likeike I've just I've never The idea of being bored is so incredibly foreign to me. Like I just don't I haven't been bored in a decade. I feel like my recollection of summers partarticularly around either Decklin or Adams ages was and I had friends that I would like play with or hang out with depending on how old we're talking about, but I remember summers just being defined by boredom. Now that was still better than being in school and bored, but I. I remember just being so bored.. I feel like I could have done within reason, whatever the crap I wanted. Like my family growing up was not super into limiting like video games or anything like that. L I could have done whatever. and constantly I remember whining to my mother, I'm bored. Like I don't know what my deal was, man. I hear you. Well, you I think you were a normal teenager. L that's just or a normal, you know, kid, but you know, whatever age we're targeting here, or I think it's I think it's maybe less so with teenagers because they are more easily able to find their own stuff or you know, talk to their friends. Yeah. I don't think I ever complain that I was born when I was teenager. I'm sure I did it when I was like a toddler, but I don't remember that. but I was a teenager. No way would haveve that I was bore unless my parents were taking me somewhere and forcing me to be like, let's go look at the big bigest world's biggest ball of twine or something, then I would have complained that I was bored as a teen. Thats they didn't do that, so I didn't have that problem. I mean, even those things are even boring for adults. That makes sense All right, we have a new members special that we recorded just a few days ago as we were recording this. We have ATPDev Mac As Mac apps. John, what the heck does that mean? we explained at the top of the show, but this is a response to a bunch of listener questions that we got about what makes a really good Mac app essentially, Eespecially for people who are like, I'm new to the Mac platform or I've never developed a Mac app and you guys always talk about like This is not like a real Mac app. It's weird or it's not the right, you know, what makes a great Mac app? How can you tell? Um, and The advice which we fall back on a few times in the episode, but isn't actually very helpful, which is like, well, you know when you see it. Well, maybe we know when we see it, but not everybody does. So we tried mightily in this episode to See if we could nail down a few concrete things about what makes a really good Mac app. And if you're wondering about the title, again, we explained it at the top of the member special, where that phrase comes from, but it basically just means what makes a great Mac app I feel like we could have three more specials just on the same topic because I feel like we just scratched the surface of it. Like we didn't even get into like is can Apple still make good Mac apps and stuff like There's so many other aspects of this, but We tried the best we could to tackle this topic from our different perspectives and to sort of feel around the edges. And I think there's lots of useful actionable stuff in there, obviously if you're a developer. And if you're not a developer, and you're just second of hearing us talking about, oh, that's not a good mag up. What do you even mean? Well, we try to explain in this member special, so check it out Indeed, I thought this was a fun one. And it is one of those very difficult things like John said of how do you define what is Sort of undefinable, But I think we did a pretty decent job of it. and you know the people who've already listened seem to have very nice things to say, which we always appreciate. so check it out. And Marco, if one isn't a member, but if you were interested in hearing ATPDev Mac asked Mac apps, what would you do? You would head to ATp. Fm slash join and join our wonderful membership for all of these wonderful benefits, including our exclusive member content Add free episodes and so much more. We' gott toa get Marco an airhorn so he can fulfill his morning Zoo. I already have a vibber slap and a bell. What else you want? to it's not a real airhorn. This is a soundbard airorn.. Your voice like your voice your like morning, you know, radio DJ voice Itill sounds like someone making fun of a radio DJ and not someone doing an impersonation of a radio DJ. So the sarcasm just comes through. I The problem with doing any kind of kind of put on like that is that the writing in your head needs to keep up with the speed of speech. And I'm bottoming out there by the end of that. L you just gott to read the URL. Well,air All right, let's do some follow up. I have some exceptionally quick follow up with regard to nugs. I don't have it in front of me. I apologize to whoever pointed this out to me, but somebody pointed out that you can add nugs as a source within the Sonos app So with Sonos speakers, some people just airplay to them. and I do that ever great once in a while, but generally speaking, one of the things I love so much about Sonos is that they will play things on their own. You know, you can go to the Sonos apppp and pick which speakers you want to play things on and what you want to play and then they will just handle it and your phone or whatever device is not involved at all from that point going forward. So I have Apple Music on mine when I was still a Spotify subscriber. I had that on there. But I didn't realize that there are like one hundred or two hundred other services you can add And nugs is one of them. So if you are interested like Marco is in the D Matthews band, or if you're interested like both of us are in Goose, You can check that out and go into your Sonos apppp and add that as another source. I had no idea that was the thing Then, John, apparently you had a prophecy and it has come true. Last episode, I was talking about I forgetot it was I think it was in the afterfterh. I was talking about a bug I had been chasing. Maybe it was an overtime. there was some overlap Bu was chasing one of my apps and I thought I had finally fixed it and I said in that episode. and here I am saying this, but of course, as soon as I finish this episode, I'm sure there willll be another crash report showing that I haven't fixed it and guess what There was indeed It was like a twenty four hour grace period, I guess Another bug report saying, hey, that crash on quit inside A hit code is still there I was thinking about it last night when I saw this and I was like, you know? since it's only since it's like one every three days on average This couldn' just be like one person's computer where they have some weird debug thing turned on for Appkit because it's like it's an assertion inside Appkit while it's de allocating stuff and it's like you know, the thing that's causing the crash is an assertion that says, and there should be nothing left in this dictionary while we're deallocating stuff inside Appkit. And there is something left there, apparently on this person's computer And then it just the assertion fails and it crashes on its way out the door. By that point, all the code in my app is finished executing and it's just deallocating stuff So I don't know what it is. I have so much debugging about this, as I said on the show I talked about this. I've never been able to reprouce this. I cannot make it happen. I just can't. I put in so much debugging. I tried everything I could think of. It just never, ever, ever, ever, ever happens for me And even put into bugg and say, hey, that assertion, I know what it' checking because I had an LM decompile app kit for me and says, yeep, this is what it's checking, and this and you can check it yourself. And so on my way out the door I check and I always say, makeake sure this thing is empty. and of course, it's always empty as far as I can tell And then you know, anyway, some someone out there is having this bug so it's still there. So I just want to update everybody in that. and yes, I did curse myself by S saying that this would happen. as the prophecy foretold John, I do have some good news for you though. Mythos is back Hayden Field over the Verge writes. After a roller coaster negotiation process with the Trump administration that dragged on for two weeks, Anthro Mythos five is finally back in action, at least somewhat, for select group of organizations, according to a letter from the government to Anthropic that viewed by the Verge. Babable five, however, sorry, John, the public facing Mythos class model appears to still be in limbo with no apparent timeline for a rollout agreement Yeah, Oh well, I guess the security researchers can Get access to myhos again, lucky them With regard to indexing for the forthcoming Si AI, word on the street is that spotlight indexing only downloads a certain number of mail messages a day. So depending on the size of your mail archive, it could take a long to complete. Well, that doesn't surprise me because like it's one of those things we want to be friendly. So just do X messages per day, but then they don't think about like, well what if someone has X times a million messages in their mail? But I am excited to see that it seems like it's actually going to download all the messages rather than just, I'm just going to take the top one hundred and that'll be it. So anyway, this is related to people saying they were waiting like a week for their indexing to be finished, but installing the IOS twenty seven beta So yeah, here we are out here hoping that the rumor about the twenty six point six OSs is true and that will do all the indexing for us while we wait for twenty seven to be released. But we'll see All right, then Aaron Raymist had some corrections for both you and for I, Aaron writes. On the last episode, John said that you can't get an eight terabyte SSD on the Mac Mini. This isn't true anymore. Apple does offer eight terabytes the Mac Mini, even with the base M four P. Thank me you mean for you and me. Did I say you and I? Second correction Anyways, so John, did you do any further research about this? Yeah, I don't know why I didn't see that option. Maybe it's one of thosees you got to change it from something else. but anyway, I priced it out just to see what it would be like to get a Mac Mini with eight terabyte SSD And it starts at five thousand four hundred dollars Cool. that is for a bind M four Pro that is down two CPU cores and four GPU cores and twenty four gigs of RAM and just plain gigabit ethernet. five thousand four hundred dollars Mac mini. So Yeah. what would it take to have a stock Mac mini gold case. You think it would be more or less. Solid gold or just plated. Solid. Well, it's probably a lot of gold. Gold's pretty expensive. Solid would be a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So like the whole idea I was music about IMac mini is like if I could get like some kind of arm computer to tide my over or if I don't care about power, what can I get? But the is the SSD the SSD is the problem. I was doing some more pricing out of things with like various discounts and stuff. and in most cases With Apple's pricing, an eight terabyte SSD costs more than the computer. Like the upgrade, even on a Mac Studio, very often in most configs that aren't ultras The eight terabyte SSD upgrade from whatever the stock is cost more than the whole rest of the computer combined By, anyway, Earon continues. Similarly, Casey said you have to get the top of the line Max chip to get the eight terabytes on the MacBook Pro, which is not technically true. On MacBook Pro, eight terabytes is an option with the base M five Max. However, the base M five Max only supports the thirty six gigs of RAM. So if you want any additional RAM then you'd have to upgrade to the top of the line Max chip. I think this is what got me Because if you recall, I was on the air. I was pricing out basically my existing M three MacBook Pro, but if I were to buy it today, and I have sixty four gigs of RAM. so I miss I conflated the issue being. SSD where it wasn't the issue, The issue actually was RAM that caused me to go to the super top of the line M five Max. So I regret the error. That's always been the case with Apple's confonfigs in recent years where upgrading to some other unrelated thing willll be like, who, we got to change a bunch of other specs because they're really limiting the amount of configs they'll sell to you. and so they're like it's getting to be like optioning a car. It's like, well, if you want the entertainment package then you have to get the you know interior in you know, whatever thing like leather seats or things are connected in weird ways. So I mean I don't really blame them given the difficulties of component pricing, but it does make configuring these things even trickier than normal All right, let's go to prrice increase corner. We're gonna to start with the Apple TV. Chris Carley wrote in with a point that I think John maybe you intended to make this on the previous episode. Chris writes, A big Apple TV price hike makes sense since unlike many other products, the Apple TV doesn't have other expensive components to mask the changes in price of RAM and of storage. The Apple TV is in terms of cost, mostly just an old iPhone chip with RAM and storage. Yeah. I didn' mean to make this point and somehow we moved on to another topic before I could, but yeah, we're complaining about like the Apple TV fifty four percent increase to the base price, sixty seven percent increase for the good one It's just brutal, but like what is the Apple TV if not a bucket of RAamM and storage? Like there's not much else in there, right? It's just the SOC that has the RAM on it. And then storage and I guess like you know whatever WiFi chip and stuff, it's like there's nothing else in there. It's similar to the point that I did end up making about like When you do when you look at how much the RAM upgradees have increased, they haven't increased by twenty percent. They've increased by like seventy or one hundred percent because that's it, That's the source of the problem. It's the RAM. Well I'm not saying the Apple TV is not overpriced for the power that it has and hasn't always been pretty expensive for what you get, but If one product was going to have the highest percentage increase, it would be the product that is just basically rAamp and storage in the cheapest possible box Righto. All right let's talk to Steam machine. Jay. Peters over the Vverge writes. After months waiting, Valve has finally announced that the Steam machine, its new living room friendly PC will start at one thousand fifty bucks and go on sale beginning actually as we record this today, june twenty ninth U That is not cheap, especially when you're comparing it to like a PlayStation, but I guess John, it might get worse Yeah, if you I mean so it is like a little PC and you can spec it up. And so if you get the maxed out two terabyte model with a controller because apparently the cheap one doesn't even come with a controller Then it's one thousand four hundred and twenty eight dollars. The steam machine was looking really exciting back when we talked about it many moons ago as like a tiny living room PC that is as friendly as a console or tries to be as friendly as a console and as small and adorable, but it plays PC games. It's basically the desktop plugged in version of the Steam deeck It's the you know, Valve's Linux platform where they heroically find ways to play windows games in Linux and gets good performance. And it's not a big fancy gaming PC. but what if you don't want to build a big fancy gaming PC? And what if you also don't want to run handheld, get a steam machine, that's like a little PC game cube, It's so adorable. And it' like, well, no pricing is announced So so what do you think it'll be like, Oh, I don't know, maybe it'll be like as much as the Playsttation five like seven hundred dollars, six or seven hundred doll, maybe even eight hundred do. nope, it's over a thousand. And in fact, it was delayed because they hadn't announced pricing. and then the date came when people expected them to announce pricing. they're like, we're gonna to wait to see what's going on with the whole And was you know that was a little while ago and now they've announced pricing and the pricing is bad. I did see a bunch of YouTube videos being like, we're going to build a Steam machine competitor by building her own PC. And I felt like most of those videos should have focused on how the PC is also more expensive to build now because it's not like right Steam machine is the only thing that is getting hit by this price increase, but yeah, kind of bad timing on valves part U although I guess I'm probably probably glad they didn't launch the steam machine that like seven hundred and fifty dollars several months ago because Anyway, yeah Tough luck. Jay Peters continues, whileile console makers sometimes subsidize their hardware to bring prices down, Valve is choosing not to do that with the steam machine. Here's what Valve said and remarks provided to the Verge While this might seem like an easy solution, it doesn't align with our beliefs about how healthy ecosystems are built. If there's anything we are religious about it Valve, it's our belief that open systems are better in the long run for ourselves and our customers When companies sell their hardware under cost for competitive advantage or by exclusive content for it, they're doing that to build a more closed system, one where you don't get to choose what software you will want to use We don't want that for PC hardware, and we don't think you should want it either. You shouldn't feel like you have to buy valve hardware. You should be able to view it as just one option alongside all the devices for playing games and select the one that makes sense for you This means you get to decide which device fits your personal trade offffs around things like price performance, form factor, peripheral support, and everything else you care about. That's the strength of the open PC platform and subsidizing hardware runs counter to it. I haven't seen anyone push back on this, because every runs like ra ra, yeah, open is great. but it's like This answer doesn't make any sense to me because All that open stuff. That's not really in Valve's control. Like they're not, I mean, I suppose they could make like a proprietary console, but they're not. They're making a gaming PC. And as influential as Valve is, they don't actually control what constitutes a PC game. Microsoft with Windows still has more control of that, even though they're not even running Windows. likeike I've talked to about this before how they're They're out there basically trying to say, we're going to make Windows games a run on a thing that's not Windows. And we know we're not in the driver's seat here. We are reactive. Whatever the Windows games do, we'll try to figure out a way to get them to work on our weird Linux adapter layer People aren't writing games at least thus far directly for Valve, maybe some developers are but like they they want to sell window If you make a PC game, you want to run on Windows because you're really limiting your market if you can't. Now, why would Valve sell at a loss. the one way to do it is like, hey, we're going we're going to sell our consoles at a loss. so so many people will buy them. And then once we get them on our consoles, of course, our consoles only run The Playtation only runs Playstation games and it will get exclusive to Playsttation, all that other stuff so I get what they're getting out in terms of the closed ecosystem, but An reason people subsidize stuff is people in the door to people who don't have a gaming PC to buy a gaming PC Because if you are able to do that, then you can make it up in the games. And guess what Valve does make money by selling games for this platform. They have the biggest PC game store on the internet And so they could sell at a loss and make it up. By selling all those damn games, hell, they make money even when someone buys a game and plays it on their Windows PC as long as they buy it from the steam store That's exactly the model. I know it's not a closed ecosystem or whatever, but like, You know, a random company like Alienware can't sell gaming PCs at a loss, they'll go out of business Valve is one of the few companies in the PC gaming ecosystem that could sell hardware at a loss because they make money in every game sold. Similarly, Microsoft with the Xbox could sell the Xbox at a loss hoping to make it up with the Xbox games that are sold. But again, Valve makes money when you buy game from the steam store, even if you don't play it on a steam machine. so I'm not saying they should sell at a loss or whatever. like do whatever they want to do. But like the answer about how we need to keep an open ecosystem when we don't want to lock you in, it's like, You selling your thing low cost doesn't lock me into anything. You still play PC games, games that I can play on my Windows PC if I don't want to buy your steam machine. So a little bit incoherent And I'm not going to say disappointing that they're not selling it below cost, but I bet they're selling it close to cost because if you look at what's in the steam machine This looks like they're probably not making a lot of money on the hardware. And how can they sell this without making a lot of money on hardware? Because they make so much money in that store, because the margins on taking a cut of everyone else's PC games is much better than the margins on selling a hardware box. Speaking of Xbox, J Peters yet again, Microsoft is increasing the prices of Xbox consoles again, startarting on august first, five twelve gig models will be one hundred dollars hundred more expensive, while one terabyte models will be one hundred fifty dollars more expensive This means that the Xbox sereries S will start at five hundred bucks. The Xbox series X without a disk drive will start at seven hundred and fifty bucks, and the series X with a disk drive will start at eight hundred bucks Microsoft also says it will be sunsetting its two terabyte Xbox sereries X Microsoft last raised prices in October by twenty to seventy dollars and says it had hoped to avoid further hikes.Quote, Unfortunately, console storage and memory prices have increased by more than two point a half X, and we expect another doubling by the fall of twenty twenty seven big Yikes. Expect another doubling Like they just dropped the high end model because they're like we know we can't sell it. We're having enough trouble selling Xboxes as it is. And the two terabyte model would probably cost nine hundred dollars or something, so we're not gonna to try that. I think the PlayStation five Pro currently costs nine hundred dollars or something close to that. So I got a bargain when I bought mine at whatever it originally was sold at But yeah, everyone's raising prices. And for the Xbox Series X, I don't know if these things are sold at a loss. Although Microsoft gives a good example of how they had raised prices by twenty doars and seventy dollars and then had to raise them again That's definitely a Microsoft thing to do. whereereas the Apple thing to do is hold out as long as you can and raise the prices on almost everything by a huge amount that you hope will stick. But we'll say maybe Apple underestimated how much it had to raise prices too. Speaking of all these raised prices, a micron executive suggests that Apple's aggressive purchasing tactics might have helped fuel the memory shortage. Oo. Ralph Winkler in the Wall Street Journal writes that Tim Cook said there's less supply at a time when consumers want devices and the memory guys are passing along huge price increases. That's Tim's quote Then Rolf says Micron Chief business officer, Sumit Sadana said the company couldn't make investments during the memory market's last downturn when Micron's gross profits went negative, in part because certain customers took advantage to pay rock bottom prices. Sumit said, We told a couple of the customers who were being very aggressive with pricing at that time that this is not constructive. He said, without naming Apple, adding that low prices discourage capital investments, quote, a lot of the industry investments got shut down in twenty twenty three because of really poor pricing and really poor margins. So this is a, you know, Go to the press and, you know, passive aggressively sub twweet as we used to say Apple or whatever, but I you know, it's quite quite a fantasy world to believe that, you know, this company is saying basically like Apple drove a hard bargain. And if they had if they had bought our ramp for more money back when things were okay, then we would have had more profit. And you know what we would have done with that profit We would have built more factories, so we wouldn't be in this problem. Would you Is that what you would have done with the extra profit? If you know if only they would have agreed to pay higher prices, we wouldn't have given ourselves bonuses or done stock buybacks? No, no, we would have built we would have built factories because we would have said we want to you know prepare for the future. Now there probably is some truth to that because obviously the more money you make, the more investments in the future and so on and so forth you make this This is really kind of like, well, look how the tables have turned because back when Apple was in the driver's seat, they were driving these hard bargains and saying, you get nothing. You get one cent per chip and you'll like it because we're buying a bajillion chips and those one cents add up. but like giving them the most razor thin margins, I said, making things go negative. And now that they're making huge profits and they are richher like, you know, Apple, you should' have been nicer to us before You know, whatever, business is business but which is probably true, but also that would not have solved or avoided this problem at all Yeah, because like, you know, it's The notion that these companies are so like forward thinking and magnanimous and don't take all of their money and you know, again, give it to bonuses to the top executives and do stock buybacks to make like I'm not saying it's one hundred percent that, but history has shown that when the profits are good, most companies do not use it to do forward thinking things. Maybe Micron is different, mayaybe they would have done something different, but anyway,' It's kind of like kicking the rest of the industry while they're down Steve Trownon Smith, friend of the show weighed in on this and wrote, Apple starved the silicon industry, excuse me, silicon supply chain for years It was widely discussed back when GPU prices started to skyrocket. Famously, Palm blamed Apple for not being able to source components for its web OS devices U And then we have a way backack machine link to u to the Vverge, where Chris iegler wrote Citing an anonymous source, quote, We told HP we needed better displays for the pre three. They'd come back and say, Apple bought them all. Our suppliers tell us we need to build them a factory if we want the displays And they weren't willing to put the billion dollars upfront to do that. Yeah, at various times Apple has cornered the market on certain commodities, but the other thing Apple has done, as we know from the Apple and China book spend billions of dollars to make people make factories for them. L so it's tough to be competing with Apple for components and Apple, you know, Apple cornered the market and Flash memory for the Nano for a long time U Apple likes that situation where it's the one screwing over everybody else and now Apple's getting screwed over along with everybody else. So what goes around and comes around, I guess, but yeah, I would hope that this entire industry can eventually get its feet under it again and try to get things more in balance and have capacity that more closely matches demand without any one customer screwing everybody over whether that be Apple or NVidia or who else. Well I think this also like, you know, A, this is a good use of Apple's cash hoard now because like if they want to front the money to build another factory for somebody you know exchange for, you know, all of its output for a number of years, that's that's something they've done before. It's right out of their playbook. They do it actually, I think all the time. and this is a good time to be doing that kind of thing being said. I think another angle of this is that Apple When they were dictating all those terms, and this again, this is a great reason to read that Apple and China book, goes into a lot of this We never really talked about on the show. It's a very good book It really is, really, really, really is. Yeah. I strongly recend I don't read a lot of books. That was one and it was really good You know, when you had, you know, back in the day, you had the Tony Blevins going around like dictating terms to people and Tim Cook being his ice cold, you know dictat herselff. like that's Tim Cookle leads by Edict, like just Ice cold And Apple's able to negotiate that kind of way, which is not really negotiation when they are in positions of power. And we've seen this over and over again that Apple is really only able to work out good deals for itself when it has all of the power They don't really show a lot of strength in negotiation when they are not able to just dictate terms. So that is one area where I am curious to see how this situation plays out today, because Part of the reason Apple is in the situation is that for the last couple of decades, they've done so well that they've been able to dictate terms to all of their suppliers and have the suppliers basically say, okay, well, we have to basically play a ball because they're our biggest customer or they're going to give us the highest price or they're going to buy all of our output for X years or whatever. Whereas now with AI chip demand, Apple is no longer a lot of the suppliers's biggest customers You know, Nvidia, for instance, probably going to I don't know, I don't know what the numbers off the top of my head, but like if you look at between NvidDia. And Apple, like who has more sway over, say, TSMC? Yeah EvD is TSMC's biggest customer now. Yeah, like and that's that's got to irritate Apple. And it definitely hurts their negotiating position when it comes to getting access to the highest end nodes, getting getting like allocation of the supply. that's, you know, how much of their supply are they willing to give Apple and at what prices and on what terms, Apple hasn't been in the position to need to really negotiate that rather than dictate for a very long time And I don't think anybody who's there right now has that skill. att least certainly the people who have been dealing with supplier relations for the last couple of decades I don't think any of them have had a lot of chances to exercise that skill. It's very much like they' a relationship with developers. Well, it's exactly like they're relationship with developers. It's like like, oh, we're develop. We've been working together with developers. if we're one big happy family. But imagine, I mean, this hasn't actually happened, but imagine if the tables ever did turn And suddenly developers had power, Apple will be like Why whyy are this so mad at us? We've been working together so great for all these years. and it's like, no, the whole time we've been hating this. Like the suppliers who have been under Apple's thumb, Apple thinks like this is great. You know, we've worked together for so long. Why don't they have any loyalty to us? It's like they've hated it because you've treated them so badly. And yet, they've been nice to your face because you give them billions of dollars, but like the second they don't have to do what you say anymore, like Apple is shocked I thought all this time we were friends like no, no, no, no And on that topic of like who's going to you know, give money to make a new factory in exchange for all its output? The ram makers now are going to be like We're not going to take that deal either because we make so much more profit selling high bandwidth memory that the AI people make than we would making like whatever LPDDR or whatever Apple needs. the RAM that Apple uses in its products has lower margins than the RAM that the AI people want. And so these companies are like if we're going to build another factory, we're going to be building high bandwidth memory in it because we make more money for every one of those. And Apple, I know you don't want any of this, but We would rather not take your money to build a factory and then have to use that factory to make like memory for iPhones. We'd rather build it ourselves and sell the memory to all the people making AI servvers because we make more from like that's the main problem with this is that the AI, you know, people making AI servers, both the silicon, like Nityia silicon and like all the RAM and everything goes into it. those customers will pay more for their stuff. like that enterprise, data center stuff has higher margins than selling RAM for Macs and iPhones. That's a lower margin business. So's That's part of the problem Maybe not so much with the TSMC, but definitely with the RAam maker. So Hopefully this willll get itself out. Like in the end money solves everything and Apple may have to throw more money than they're used to at various things and you know And and Apple could play this well like try to, you know If they can correctly predict how things are going to go, that maybe they can get into a situation where there's a glut and an oversupply and the price goes down and they're feeling like they're back in the driver's seat. But For now they have other strategies that they're trying. All right, and that brings us to Apple is asking the Trump administration to approve Chinese RAM. Zach Hall at ninety five Mac writes. The Financial Times reports that Apple is seeking a clearance from the Trump administration to purchase memory chips from a banned Chinese company. So looking at the Financial Times post Apple is lobbying the Trump administration for clearance to buy memory chips from CXMT, a Chinese company that the Pentagon has put on a banned list because of alleged connections to the peopleople's Liberation Army, according to six people familiar with the matter The PLA, People's Liberation Army, is the military wing of the Chinese Communist Party. and the primary armed forces of the People's Republic of China The iPhone maker has waged a lobying campaign to get the blessing from the White House to help ease the financial pressure on the company from the rise in memory chip prices Apple is not barred from buying chips from CXMT or YMTC, another Chinese memory chip maker But the Pentagon has put both companies on its Chinese military company banlist The so called one two sixz H list contains dozens of Chinese groups with alleged ties to the PLA that under undermine U. S. national security The Commerce Department last year added CXMT to a package of Chinese groups. that it intended to place on a trade baned list called the Entity list. But the White House told it to hold off on new export controls because the administration was in the middle of a tough in the middle of tough negotiations with China to try to reach a truce in the trade war But most of the people familiar with matters said it was unclear if Apple would get any guarantee from the administration, especially a promise that the US would not later put CXMT on the entity list. So this is a little bit weird in that apparently they could buy from them, but it seems like the government's saying, we're probably not going to let you. And so Apple is sort of preemptively going to the government to their wonderful friends in the government and saying Hey, we really want to buy this RM from the Chinese companies because, you know, we need RAM and they have RAM and forbidding us to buy from them is really going to make things bad. And I know you're thinking about not letting us buy from them, but could you pretty please change your mind on that? and we'll see how that negotiation goes. This actually is you know as much as we constantly complain about corruption and everything in the Trump administration, this type of thing where companies lobby the government to allow them to do business with their international companies that they want to do business with happens all the time and is a actual somewhat normal function of government. What's not normal is how the decision will actually be made unlike decisions that are made based on Fs and evidence and what's best for the country this will be made on, let's say other criteria, but the actual situation is not that b. foreign, so to speak U So we'll see how that works out for Apple. Like I mean, they they'll try anything. they'll, you know, try anything to get their to get their ramp chips for less money. And this type of thing of like, look, you're not going to build a factory overnight, but what we can do overnight is start buying from a new customer that previously we were staying away from because it was, you know, they were supposedly going to be banned. We'll see how it goes. We are sponsored this episode by Factor You know, for a lot of us, eating healthy is not necessarily a willpower problem. It's an infrastructure problem. It's a setup problem. This is what factactor tries to help you with. 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Once again, factormeals dot com slash ap fifty off, code ATP fifty off Thank you so much to Factor for sponsoring our show There was a very interesting report from Mark German on june twenty fifth, which reads, Apple plans to debut a base M six processor as early as this year But in a first, the company will skip higher end versions of that chip. Apple instead aims to introduce the next Pro and Max chips with the more advanced computing and graphics power in twenty twenty seven as part of a new M seven generation. Apple's taking this unusual step in order to fast track technologies that it originally planned to release later The change should help meet growing demand for on device AI capabilities and more graphics intensive software Apple plans to introduce the base M seven, codenamed Delos, which is apparently an island off Greece, as early as the first half of next year. Apple is also planning higher end M seven Pro, M seven Max and M seven ultra chips all dubbed Andros internally The M seven Pro and M seven Max are scheduled for as early as the end of twenty twenty seven, while the M seven Ultra is on track for twenty twenty eight. The M seven line is designed primarily around major advancements to on device AI processing. The base version is slated to support about two hundred and forty gigabytes per second of memory bandwidth. and John took the liberty of looking it up And the M five has one hundred and fifty three gigs a second and the M six will have two hundred gigs a second, according to Germman. And I will repeat the M seven will allegedly have two hundred forty gigabytes per second The M five Ultra chip codeenamed Sora D will have around thirty six CPU cores and eighty GPU cores. Apple has also tested support for up to seven hundred sixty eight gigabytes of memory in the M five UltrMax studio, though the component constraints could complicate its debut you make it cost eighty thousandars. You think, right. Then the following day on the twenty sixth of June Germman writes, Apple's first ever touchscreen laptop will rely on the company's current high end M five chips Rather than the next generation silicon, though the company is working on a follow up model with future M seven processors. The M seven laptop models are planned for as early as the end of twenty twenty seven So here we go, total destruction of the rumor rumored plans that we've been talking about for a year. which just like, you believe they're going to I know the M five pro and Mac MacBook pros came out this year, but it's supposedly the rumor is they're going to come out with the M six ones this year too. And those are going to be the ones that are redesigned and they have OLID screens and they have touchscreens and they're going to have the M six line and maybe they're going to be called MacBook Ultra And yeah, that plan is now The stuff I guess the stuff you care about like O still rumored Touch screen St still Rumemeredd, redesign, still Rumemd M six, no more The same M five proro and Macs that are in the current laptops will be in the new ones, which is somewhat disappointing, but on the other hand It is a second MacBook P release within the same calend year and the thing most people are excited about of those laptops is the OLED screen, the redesign, and to a lesser extent, the touchs screens. that disappointing But I do wonder if these end up being called ultra or if they arere priced like ultras, it might feel kind of bad. It's like it's an ultra that's exactly the same speed as the existing. It's not gonna be any faster. Like unless they come up with better cooling or something, it's gonna be exactly the same speed as a MacBook Pro you could have bought months and months ago, It's gonna have a nicer screen a touchs screen, all that other stuff And I'm not sure what they're going to put the base M six is in that we just talked about. The base M six seems great and everything, but like The fact that they're not even going to do an M six, max, a pro, max or ultra. that it'll just be the no suffix M six Like that's kind of disappointing that the M six generation will not get any of those other chips. It does make some sense based on the rumors that German is talked about here of like you know, apparently, whatever was planned for the M seven generation, these things, whatever things on the chip that make on device AI better, Apple's like, look, we have limited resources, limited time whyy don't we fast track the M seven stuff and just because the M sixs, maybe they're just like, well, they're, you know, a couple percent better than the M five s, but like we want to get to that next step as soon as possible. So rather than clogging up the supply lines of TSMC, the limited capacity that we get in TSMC or maybe not TSMC stay tuned Why don't we just go right to the M seven? and why don't we just start gettinget those out of the door SAP because apparently the design is done and they're ready to go And they are a bigger leak over the M five. So Yeah, it seems like the M five is going to have a fairly long life as the top of the range in Apple's products with, you know, the M seven ones coming out sometime next year and the M seven Ultra in twenty twenty eight She' Louise Does that mean you're not getting a new computer until twenty twenty eight, John? No, no. peopleeople have asked about that. I can't wait thatough. Are you kidding? I needed a new computer yesterday. I cannot wait. I'm sure the M seven ultra will be great. No way in hell I'm waiting until twenty twenty eight. I'd be perfectly happy with M five Max You know, I've been fighting my hard drive capacity trying to offload more things. I'll have more on that in a future episode, probably because There's some excitement going on there. but anyway. Oh jeez. No great. I'm not wait. I'm not waiting. I'll buy as soon as I can. Now and I'm not interested in the laptop, so it's not a disappointing to me personally, but I do wonder if this throws a monkey wrench into their branding. Like if the whole plan was actually to call these MacBook ultra Are they less ultra if they have the same chip that you could have got months ago? think I think they are less ultra. They're still cool. They' still those still be, you know, nice laptops, but Another casualty of Ramageddon So if you wanted to try to get to the front of the line in one of these fabs, what could you do? Well, a user on Twitter called JuCon writes from the GFHK mononthly call Apple and Intel already signed an agreement in december twenty twenty five. The M seven chip will use Intel eighteen A hyphen p and is expected to enter production by the end of twenty twenty seven, while the smartphone chip will use Intel fourteen A and is expected to enter production by the end of twenty twenty eight John what's GH GFHK? I tried mightily to find out by Googling. There's a lot of things with those initials that could be plausible. The closest I get was GF Holdings, Hong Kong The GF stand for some other words that I couldn't pronounce and there's lots of GF companies with those same two words. Anyway, I think it's some big financial institution somewhere near Hong Kong, maybe. Yeah, I don't the sourcing on this, I don't know anything about this user or what they're saying, but like Anyway, you can keep reading. likeike there there's a little bit more smoke around these rumors Gavin Bonshore, who formerly was a senior editor at AnNech, who's now at Bonteech Labs, writes Intel's eighteen A process is the company's one point eight nanometer class node, the one that Panther Lake is currently manufactured on. It combines ribbon fet gate all around transistors with power via backside power delivery. and this delivers up to twenty five percent higher performance or thirty six percent lower power consumption compared to Intel's previous Intel three process, with around thirty percent improved transistor density The eighteen AP variant, which is what the M seven is reportedly targeting, is essentially a refined version of the base eighteen A node. For the M seven, Apple may require some of Intel's advanced packaging techniques to hit its performance targets, potentially involving combinations from the Foveros family, which is a three D chip stacking technology, alongside EMIB or embedded multi die intercnect The first mobile candidate for Intel' Fab may not be the A twenty one for the iPhone nineteen in twenty twenty seven, cururrent reports instead point toward the unnamed SOC pointing toward an unnamed SOC targeting mass production on IntelS fourteen A node by late twenty twenty eight. which suggests Apple will continue relying on TSMC for smartphone chips for the immediate future atast until or at least for the higher end models Apple iss one of the most demanding chip customers in the world and winning any Apple production gives Intel Foundry a proof point that other potential customers, including Amazon,Qualcom, and Broadcom pay close attention to. Every M seven that meets Apple's performance targets is essentially a data point for every other company evaluating Intel Foundriry as an alternative to TSMC TSMC has effectively held a monopoly on the world's most advanced consumer chip manufacturing for several years. If Apple begins splitting its most advanced chip production between TSMC and Intel, it changes the competitive dynamics of the Foundry business in a way that matters well beyond these two specific companies So we did talk about the super vague rumors about Apple wororking Intel and something something And now they sudenly got a lot more concrete with the rumor that that M seven, that Apple is going to try to get out ASAP, that they're skipping the M six proro Max and ultra to get to the M seven fter faster They're going to make Intel Fab thatad And the rumor being that they're going to still use TSMC for their phone chips because you know, it's more important and bigger capacity. But it is true that their biggest chips, obviously like physically biggest, most power hungry, most complicated, most transistor chips are the big giant ones they put in Max, not the phone chips And so going to Intel for those. is would be quite a feather at Intel's cap if they can pull it off. As we talked about, Intel is taking some slightly different paths with its chip technology. They have some things that are that they got to first or at least touted more strongly like the backside power delivery where you route the things that give power to the chips from the bottom instead of the top because when you send it through the top, you got to weave it through all the logic and everything They have some interesting technologies. The question always was, can they actually get them working and shipping and get the yields right. and Intel is actually shipping some chips of its own on an earlier variant of this supposed one point eight nanometer class node Um So it's not like it's a complete unknown If this ends up being true. And like that M seven ultra in twenty twenty eight is fab by Intel. Wow, what a world. Yeah TSMC probably doesn't care because they'd still be doing a lot of the phone triipps, but this is the whole point of like Apple doing any kind of deal with Intel, investing it' like, It's to Apple's advantage for TSMC not to be the only source for a billion reasons. and it's probably to the world's benefit for there to be other competitors to TSMC, just so there's a more competitive marketplace. this is kind of actually an exciting rumor for Intel, unless they totally blow it and then it's not going to be exciting for them. but This is future news, but boy, what a world we're living in where there's going to be a max chip from Intel again, but not X eighty six This is really wild. I mean, that being said though, like Intel has shown a remarkable ability to screw things up in recent years. No those was the old Intel. It's not the new Intel. Is it like I don't think they've proven that yet. Well they did they did ship their own chip. Panther Lake is shipping on the eighteen A process. So it's not this like, I mean Maybe Apanther like has bad yields, but you know, like They're shipping something. So it's not like they can't make this They're shipping a ship on it and the eighteen AP is the refined version of that. So I have some faith that they will ship something, but Panther Lake is a far cry from an M seven ultra That's the thing. like I think ultimately Intel is too important to U. S national security for anyone to let them fail And that's wonderful for the US. It doesn't necessarily mean that Intel iss going to be able to become a foundry for other manufacturers, have all of the expertise and trust and processes that somebody like TSMC would have to make cutting edge chips for somebody else yet. That all stands to be seen Maybe that'll that'll happen I don't think they've shown any of that really so far At least not that kind of scale. Like it'll it'll be worse. It'll be it'll be harder to work Apple when Apple works with Intel on this, it willll be harder for Apple. It'll be harder for Intel. there'll be more conflicts. Everything will be worse. but thing is Both parties are highly motivated to just you know, slog through the worsness becausecause they're like Intel's obviously motivated becausecause they're like we want to stay in business, right? Their foury thing is like this we totally want to do chips forree app, All right? So they're highly motivated. And Apple's highly motivated because like TSMC has a new boyfriend video. I don't Nvidia this, Nvidia that. So they're both motivated to deal with all that crap that you just said, which is totally true. likeike Intel is not going to be as good at as the TSMC. If everything's going to be worse, the yields are going to be lower, there's going to be more problems, but like 's good that they're both motivated to deal with it. They're like look We're in this together. You want to do it because you want to survive. We want to do it because we need these chips and TSMCs not returning our calls like they used to. And so I think I think they'll make it work. Like assuming this rumor is true, I think they will mostly make it work. And it's still still your point stands, which is like, okay, say they do make it work What if the chip suck? What if it's like the Intel, whatever, the Intel cell mode where everyone didn't want to get the Intel one they wanted the quQualal one ' because the intntel one was worse. That could still happen too. So absolutely. Fingers crossed here, right? I mean, I look for lots of reasons like I do think, know anybody paying any attention to global politics or the chip business be a little concerned how little of a contingency plan that we have if there is a conflict over Taiwan. That's pretty significant risk to the world these days and especially to the chip business And so we all want there to be a strong intel. We want there to be strong you know, non Taiwanese chip manufacturing around the world, especially in our own country, that would be great That's a really difficult thing to set up and it takes decades of investment and prioritization and just huge amounts of of change and infrastructure that you know, we've, I think started to do some of that, but I think it's going to be a very long time before We could even be remotely competitive with TSMC in Taiwan So How like how do we get from here to there? I don't know, but anythingything that that steps on the gas a little bit in that area, I think is a very good thing because it's a very hard problem, but also a very important one It's kind of unfortunate that our best hope is Intel because they they have not really shown a ton of of of capability in that kind of area I do think Intel's process Mike. It's got two things going for it. One, they're not trying to do literally exactly the same thing as TSMC. It is a little bit different. So it's good to have some kind of differentiator. And two It's within shouting distance. like it's not You can quibble and say, well, TSMC is better forX reasons X, Y, but they're not in a different ballpark. like they used to be like not even close. I'm not saying Intel has caught up to TSMC, but they are now plausibly in the conversation. The thing they have a gun running against them is not so much like, oh you're terrible at fabbing things and so on and so forth because again, they' done a lot of work to closed that gap significantly. And Intel has been making chips for a long time. So they're not starting from zero. It's not a suation where're like, whyy don't you just make a new RM for Or you know, making a chip fab like Intel has been in this business, right? They lost their lead. they still won't have it back but they're still in the conversation. Their problem is what is very new to Intel is being a foundry for other people's chips. And that's where they suck ass compared to TSMC. TSMC has been a foundry. TSMC has been a foundry for other people's chips for ages and they're used to working with customers and all their tools. and everything like that is the problem that Intel has because even though they've been fabbing chips forever, They have not been a customer oriented service company that says we will fab chips for anybody. And that was the whole transformation they made where they split off the part that makes like the actual intail chips from the part that fabs them. and the part that fabs them says, we're just going to be a fab to the world. You've got a chip, you want it fab, we can do it. And we had a story many shows ago where Intel was like If we can't get a customer We we can't build these factories. like we're trying to build the factories for our future processes or whatever but we literally can't we're not going to build them unless someone signs up to buy the chips, they're going to come out of them Um And they were very blunt about it. likeike you know, our attempt to be a fab depends on somebody signing on the dotted line and saying, we will buy chips from the factory you will make. If nobody does that then our fab business is just going to fail, and we're just going to fab all our chips at TSMC like everybody else Maybe Apple has stepped in and prevented that from happening. I don't know. it's not like they were naming names or announcing deals back then, but That's the situation of their fab. It's so new such a new business to them they don't even know if it's a viable business and everyone who has worked with them said, yeah, TSMC is better at this. They're so much easier to work with. They've been doing it forever. They know how to fab chips for other people and Intel, you've only been fabbing chips for yourself for so long that you suck at it So that's that's one of the main risk parts here. But again If both parties, if both Apple and Intel, they're both highly motivated to make this work and I think they'll just suffer through it. They'll suffer through it. and best case scenario for Intel, this is a learning opportunity for them. They'll get better at it. best case for Apple. they You know, they can finally be like the most important customer again because I would presume they they will become Intel's most important customer for its fab If only because like know, hey, you couldn't have even built this factory if it wasn't for our orders, for our Macships. But on the other hand, the Macsips are such low volume compared to the phone chips Like they do say they have a phone chip off in like twenty twenty eight or whatever, like the rumor is they're going have a phone ship at some point, but I bet that's contingent on a lot of other stuff going well before that. So Oh yeah Exciting times for Intel, exciting times for Apple Not so exciting times for people interested in high end max chips. it's going to be a M five season for a long time. Maybe do you think maybe Apple can convince Intel to do it for free for exposure Yeah right You never know U All right, let's talk new Si. John, you put this in the show notes as most things end up in the show notes. What do you want to talk about here? All things end up in the show notes. Thank you Mark. Yeah sorry, sorry, sorry, my bad. I contributed some things to follow up, but that doesn't count, does it? No it counts, but I also contribute things to the show nototes, but that doesn't count So the new series I changed all your jokes after the fact to make them funnier. I punch it up for you The first thing I wanted to put in about the new series. I'm assuming you've all well, I know Marco has installed Golden Gate, Kasey, have you installed Goldenate anywhere No, I do have the beta running on my iPad and I did install on the Vision Pro, but I don't think I've actually used it since installing it. The Vision Pro story. Yeah. I tried it. I'm not using it, of course. Yeah, well you got it on the iPad at least. Like I think this is everywhere. This is the Mac icon we're looking at in the show notes to this image. but I'm pretty sure this is the branding they use everywhere. It's probably the icon for like the little conversation app on the iPad where you can go look at past conversations with AI and stuff, right And this like series look and brand has changed a lot over the years. reccently, it's been leaning pretty heavily into the like I don't know, you'd say like red and blue rainbow swirl thing going on And the twenty seven releases, they've gone with they have a new sort of Mostly monochrome logo. This one has some rainbow tinges on it to remind you of the old S Siri, but it's like a circle with like a wavy line in the middle. It's not the Gin Yang symbol, whatever that's called But it looks a little bit like that, but it's like horizontal instead of vertical Um And everyone thinks looks like a papsy look So Brad Ellis posted I don't know if you recognize this, but he posted a u A bunch of images from a classic interternet meme, which was a real thing It was the Pepsi Logo redesign brand manual from two thousand eight We'll put a link to that in the show notes, Put a link to the PDF, the PDF is a real thing id In two thousand eight, this was not a joke, this was not a parody. This was as far as I know, an actual real thing from the Pepsi rebranding T from the whatever company that came up with the rebrand of the Pepsi logo, saying, here's what it means and it had some of the most ridiculous things you willll ever see in your life.' like they cannot be serious I think apparently they were. anyway. they just put the new Siri logo into this document. And it fits in perfectly because it looks kind of like the rebranded Pepsi symb that nobody liked And so now there's a Pepsi logo on all of our Macs. and I don't know. like I didn't really like the rainbow colored one and I kind of like this will fit in better in the menu bar with the Malmaro Chrome stuff, but It does look a little peepsyish and then It didn't take long for people to, you know, take this and run with it. Joanna Stern in one of her videos used it as the head as like a Mr. Siri. You see the images. we'll put a link to our YouTube video. you can watch it. but like It's like a It's like a person with a giant pizza flopped over their head, like pizza dough or something. Like the two eyes and the mouth are in the bottom part of the Pepsi logo or the top part of the Pepsi logo is just a big floppy thing on their head. And it's a sad looking Mr. Siri. I don't know. I know it's just like tangent to go off about like the Siri branding, but I do think this is the most significant SE like visual identity branding that change that has happened in a long time. and I think it's a little weir Oh, it's it's not good. I mean like from what everyone has said, the new series is generally so far excellent for people I haven't actually really had enough time with it to say. My one minor irritation is that Do things like creating reminders via Siri now seems slower Oh yeah, everything's going to be slower because yeah And whether it does it on device or not, it is doing a lot more processing than it used to. I'm sure that's the case. Yeah, that part is not amazing, but if it is really as smart as everyone says it is when asking more complicated things You know, maybe overall the upgrade will I'm sure it'll overall prove to be worthwhile. You know, we'll fix that for you, Marco. Buy a new iPhone. I'm sure it'll be very affordable. Oh, yeah, definitely Yeah. So anyway, it's u O It does seem like h, people seem to like it a lot, but that logo, like as I'm seeing it on my laptop, I don't I don't love it. I mean I'll get used to it. I didn't love the weird rainbow blob that we had before that was in the menu bar all the time either. But both in the menu bar and in the dock, I do not prefer this new look It really does look like a Ppssi logo though I think the problem with it is I mean, yes, first of all, that the Pepsi logo thing, like that was incredible and all the memes around that were incredible I think the problem with it is that it's actually there's not enough logo there Like it it's basasically just looks like a circle with a squiggle on it. Like there's not anything else there I think it needs to be like a little bit more of a symbol, a little bit more recognizable. because right now when you see it, like in the dock, it just looks it almost looks like a placeholder icon And in the menu bar, it's just this circle with a squiggle. L like it needs something else. Yeah, color would help, but then in the menu bar can't really have color. so they're kind of trapped by their own decision to make everything monochrome in the menu bar. I mean, not not color, just like more like the symbol needs to be a little bit more a little bit more detailed. have like one other element, have some kind of a little more to it. It seems like it's been like smoothed away through maybe committee or something. Like it's like this has had too much sanded off of it. It need It needs a little bit more Well, see the Siri never had a corporeal body. like it was always it was always defined by those by clouds of color And so once you take away the color, it's like, what's left then? Now you've just got a cloudy blur. Like it has never had a, I don't know, I've never mayaybe there was early on. there was one back before Apple bought the Siri company, but like Yeah, they didn't it never really had like a strong logo identity, nor has it had like a, I mean, if you look at your menuar now, like There's not a brand identity for like the sound thing in the menu bar, right? or the the time machine thing or the clock or even spotlight just being a magnifying glass There's nothing like that for AI agents right now. Apple could, I mean, I guess this is it, but like with a logo that says instead of saying This is for controlling your displays. This is for controlling your sound. this is for controlling Bluetooth. This is for Wi Fi. this is for AI agent And I guess this is their symbol for that I mean obviously it's the brand for Sir, but like If there, you know, if there was a generic symbol, we haven't come upon at all if we did I think what we would say, I think the industry has decided that Dy is the thing that means AI agent. Gemini leaned into this by actually having a branded single sparkle. But for a while, apps started sprouting sparkles all over the place. Sparkles in the toolbar, sparkles on the edges of buttons, sparkles in your face and it's like spparkle means AI agent. Apple has gone with Pepsi Logo means our specific AI agent. Well, but also like like the other AI products out there all have logos. You know, Chati PD has that weird kind of like flower thing. Claude has the splat, Gemini has the diamond. what wait, what does Claude have? I have no idea what the Claud logo is. It's like like asterisk.. Oh, they like the hand drawn asterk Yeah, I think I know. It's a very splatty asterisk. Yeah. have you seen it spepeaking of the things that wouldn't look good on the menu bar, Apple does have its, u I think it's like their Apple intelligence thing. It looks like, u Two rings twisted around each other. do you know that one U I don't think so. It's like it's like two strands going in a circle and the strands are twisted around each other. Oh, I think they even animate it. so they like they weave in and out of each other and straighten and twist. The problem with that one is Those two strands that make up the circle are so fine that it doesn't read it doesn't read a at menu bar sizes, it's too small, you can't see the lines anymore. So that's just like their Apple intelligence thing. And if you look at WWC sessions, I they have an animated version of it where the lines weave in and out each other like two snakes and become straight or whatever. they do have some other branding about this, but yeah I think they're in a little bit of a bind. N not that the branding matters too much because it's mostly faceless. I think their biggest problem aesthetically. I don't have anything in the notes here about it, but like U those stupid black gradient windows at least on the Mac, because now that's the look of quote unquote sppotlight as well. So you do commommand space, and it's just like this giant a sort of web two point zero looking gradient black hole. that fades to gray and all the Si AI things are in that little black hole. I don't like it. I mean, I think this logo is Like it doesn't offend me as it appears to offend many, but I don't think it's particularly great either. L it's fine. It's very middle of the road Oh the other thing I'll complain about visually with the new series so far is that when I am just pulling down to use I guess what used to be called Spotlight to launch an app you know, you pulled down and start tying the app name on the iPh That is slower And it's I think it's trying to be a little too smart, a little too quickly on that now. because it's like, what are you trying to launch? It like what are you trying to do? Are you trying to like start a long request?' just I'm literally typing the name of an app on my phone and I want to just tap the icon and launch it But that is now a little bit slower too. I mean, it's the same thing on the Mac. likeike if you used to just Command Space to launch an app, that Cand Space window can now do so much more and is uglier. And so yeah, there's the fight between Or you're just typing the first three letters of an app versus. Are you asking me some question that I'm going to send off to a server and do it like it's the same box. I mean, we went through this with the address bar and browsers years ago, or it used to be a place where you typed the URL, then it became a place where you Google and now it's a place where like We'll do all sorts of crap. Well you type stuff willll autoc complete to bookmarks and sites that you've gone before and like just So here we are again. there's a word for this from back in the day. What is it like, There's a term for like a universal box where you type text and you do everything from one box instead of separating it. I don't remember what it was, but those are everywhere and now we have one more of them. Omnibar or something like that. There, there you go. You got it somet. Oh, sw, look at me. All right, well continuing on with the new seri, front of the Shogi Rambow Rites. I'm doing an experiment where every time I use chat GPT to help me search for something, I'm also asking the same question in the Si app So far my experience has been that the Siri app typically responds with the same information, but more quickly and with better formatting and source citations. impmpressive. Yeah, I've tried it a little bit but we'll get to that in a second, but most of the people who have tried it say Are you wondering, you know, did Siri I quote unquote, fix Siri? And the answer is behaves like the other AI agents, which is High praise everyone you're talking about an Apple thing because that's like kind of like Intel. we just wanted Apple to be in the conversation. No one is saying like, is Syriia better than JGBT or worse or whatever? It's like we just wanted to be in the ballpark. like we want it to not suck terribly. And so People have been trying its like,, you can quibble, sometimes one's better, sometimes the other, but at least now it's in the conversation. at least now it seems to do the same things that the other agents do. Maybe not as well, maybe not as thoroughly. mayaybe I like the form wrning better or worse. you know, maybe it's faster or slower, but at least it's in the conversation. So thumbs up on that Meanwhile, another friend of show Dan Morin asked Siri, makeake a keyboard shortcut to open clipboard history in a single keystroke To which Siri replied, The keyboard shortcuts open cllipboard history on Windows is Windows TV This shortcut opens a panel that displays a list of recently copied items, allowing you to select and paste an older item instead of the most recent one Now he's asking us on a Mac. For those of you're not familiar, Appleied a keyboard cllipboard history to Spotlight in the previous release or maybe one releaseed before, I forget. I know it was in Tile, right? But people are annoyed that it's a two key stroke sequence. You got to do like Cand space and then like four or command four or something to get to the keyboard history. Dan's trying out the new series and saying makeake me a keyboard shortcut that gets me to clipboard history in one keystroke. you notice that prompt, that message doesn't say anything about a platform body is asking it on a Mac, I think. I can't tell. Maybe this is on a It's got to be on a Mac, right? Anyway Why in the world would it come up with an answer that tells you how to do clipoard history on Windows? Because that's how these things work sometimes. And I'm not saying this shows that S AI is worse or better, I'm saying it works like all the other agents where sometimes it just Does the wrong thing And honestly, I don't even know if Windows Keep plusB is the correct answer for this. Wh knows? didnidn't check it, but uh Yeah, maybe not the the answer that you want it. So it's not as, you know, the old serory used to make fun if I ask some question, it gives a com likely the wrong answer At least now it's failing more interestingly and you know and can succeed at some other things. And so my experience with it, like this the next part here is just me, my very first experience with Zer because I had just seen some videos I' just installed Golden Gate and I hadd just seen some videos of like people doing stuff with it by like seelecting files in the findinder and then asking it to do things with the selected files. I'm like, oh that seems handy because I I figure what that tool is that I haven' sold. them'm sorry to the developer of this every time I can never remember the name of this app. but there's various tools that will let you do that now. O even an ancient old MacOS fifteen that I'm running Select multiple files, bring up an LL prompt, and and have it do something like, you know pull the text out of these images or scale them or whatever. likeike, you know, you're basically just talking to an agent somewhere, you know whatever it is. an open A agent or whatever and having it to do stuff, but with things that you select And so Siri can do this now as well. So I wanted to try that. So I selected a file that was on my desktop And the my prompt was what is this file question mark? And the first answer was amazingly good It I had selected a Parl script Of course it was on my desktop. Of course it was. Here's the answer. SRAI said, this is a Parl script named thrash.p designed to stress test an application by repeatedly launching and terminating it. So Sript forks multiple child processes to open the accessorize. app, monitors them and automatically kills them after a random duration up to five seconds before launching a new instance to maintain continuous load How it works, process management, The script uses sick child handler to asynchronously clean up the exitited child process without blocking the main loop. Continuous load. It starts by launching ten instances of the target application. Whenever the number of acted children drops below five or fewer, it automatically spawns five more to keep the system under pressure. Target application that currently configred excute a local development build have accessorized that app located on your desktop. This is all correct It doesn't actually know the context because it's not, I guess scanning my whole system. This was A thing I was using to stress test Switch Glass, The accessorize that app is not the interesting app here. That is just an app I made in Xcode that does some speicular stuff while it's running, like it fiddles with its state in a way that Switch Glass can detect And I wanted, I was basically toauure testing swwitch class to say Is there some kind of crash when there's like massive amounts of activity of like tons of apps launching and quitting all at random and inside the accessorized app fiddling the things that Switchclass can note about them or whatever So might just, you know, and it's configurable and to do more than ten or whatever Um So It didn't just say this is a Pl script It read all the code in it And, you know, again, we're surprised to know on this podcast. these agents are good at understanding code and it explained to me and this is like This is like, I don't know, less less than half a page of Pl code It's not a complicated script. This is a more or less accurate description of what's in there. And I was like, wow. That's, you know, and it's not like, oh, Sir yah is amazing I would expect that from any of the modern AI agents. I would never have expected that from Syri in the past And now we can do that I'm like this awes U and then me being me I come back to my computer later that day, I select the same file. I say what is this file? Question mark. Exactly the same prompt Here's what SAI said then. Based on the.pl extension, thrash.pl is likely a prol script. These are plain text files containing code written in the Pl programming language, often used for text processing, system administration and web development L'sike what what happens, here AI That's, I mean True You got that right. It is in fact a Parl script and you're right about Parl. What happened? What happened to all the stuff aboutb telling me about what's in there and what it does or whatever And this variability is one of those things that is I feel like a hallmark of SAI and some other products as well, which is U especially like various Chch EPT things and like their default mode We'll figure out which model to use basased on stuff, criteria, I don't know, time of day, how much load our servers are under, what plan you're on, this that, the other thing. It seems pretty clear to me that in the second answer, SirAAI chose to use a less powerful model. Maybe it used a local model for that one and you use the server model for the first one U But either way Very different answer to the exact same prompt on the exact same day about the exact same file, which has not changed And that also makes me think, Huh, Siri AI, you're just like the other one. You never know what you're going to get And unlike the fancier models where you can be like alwaysways use the big super mega ultra model super thinking all the time donon't think you have that option in Siri AI U you'll more likely to get a better model if you have like an M four better or whatever the specs are that makes you use the more advanced local one. But this variability and answer really makes it difficult to I'm not going to say rely on, but just to like to get consistent results. becausecause imagine that I hadn't asked about I hadn't had the exact same letter for letter prompt about the exact same file. Imagine instead that I made two separate requests You may come away thinking Well, it's really good at that first request, but when I ask it about the other kind of thing it's bad at it. And that's not true at all, mayaybe. Maybe it's just that the first time I went to a server and the second time it did local And so as with all things related to LMs, it's very difficult to form Oh. concrete judgments based on what they do because what they do is offtten not What you think they're doing? likeike this is the problem with. they seem like they're doing something that they're not. So in this case, it seems like it's good atQestion X and bad at question Y. Question X was about sports and question Y was about knitting you'd be like, oh they're great at sports but bad at knitting. But that's the wrong conclusion becausecause you don't know what's going on behind the scenes. It's not like they're telling you, I did this one to the server and this one to a local thing. And so you end up drawing the wrong conclusions and you never ask any knitting questions and really that's not the problem at all. So I don't know what to think of this. I'm not, you know I mean, kind of like the Vision Pro that you upgradade and then never use. I did play with this for a little while and then I you know went back to basically ignoring it. although I was also playing with the new version of Xcode It's buuilt in functions for doing agentic coding stuff or whatever to see how those work compared to how they were in Excode twenty six And when I set that up, I'm like Oh yeah you have to configure like, you know one of the third party agents in Xcode because I'm pretty sure there's it doesn't use Like you can't configure Si AI as far as I can tell as an ex twenty seven agent. Maybe that's not true and if so I'll follow up next episode, someone can tell me Apple seems like Apple's not competing in that realm. Like that's not what Siri AI does. And so I couldn't, you know, I would have liked to seen what it could do. Now, I did see I've been watching WOC sessions still about this and one of them talked about how the u what's in EXcode twenty seven, they like, they provide stuff for the agents that integrate with it. For example, they have a agent friendly incarnation of all their documentation. I don't know the details It's like vectorized or some way made with like embeddings so that the agents can be more easily digested rather than just feeding at the text or whatever. I don't know the details, but the point is Apple has supposedly done work in Xcode twenty seven so that agents that are running in ExO twenty seven have in theory leg up on agents that are just like Bowsing the web. And here's where Casey says, well It doesn't matter if it's you a special vectorized version of it or the web version. if the documentation's not there, it doesn't really matter Right But but like it shows that it's not, you know, if you're say, why would I ever use an agent inside X code? why wouldn't I just go use the agent of my choice outside X code to bu my code stuff Apple's answer is well, if the ones that are actually used from inside Xcode, they have more direct access to Xcode functionality, they have more direct access to resources. I mentioned on an earlier episode that They made a bunch of essentially skills for agents that teach it about their technologies and you can export them and use them with third party agents. But any agent that use within EXcode gets access to them automatically with no extra work from you. So I guess EAI's not in that, but like I hope someday Apple does, you know att least maybe take a third party agent and train it up on all their internal stuff, because that's what we want. We want an agent You know, agents can train on stuff and stack overflow and All sorts of open store stuff that they've taken without permion and blah blah blah. But as I said in the past episode Apple can train models on its own proprietary source code that no one has access to. Maybe they don't want to do that because like a lot of these agents, you could can make them spit back like the New York Times suing to say, hey, we can make we can make this agents spit back verbatim passages from New York Times article. If they trained an agent on their old source code and let the public have access to it, could we get it to spit out like the source code to Alicate by? Uh, you know conjoing it in the right way. maybe's why they're afra of it, but that's what I want Apple to do. It's like You have the source code to all your frameworks. And we don't have the source code to all your framework. So please train a model on that source code and make that be the model that I get to use for Mexicode. But anyway, all this to say is that I think Siri AI is U not terrible. It is again, is it is in the conversation with the other agents. It does things that those agents do. It is night and day difference from the old Si Uh, and uh That's something, at least. I mean, it it does seem like they've really finally done it. They like they've really launched a series that is Smart and has the intelligence side handled And so now I think what we need to see is What remains to be seen first of all, is like scale, speed and reliability because know all the parts that are not locally running have to depend on a lot of infrastructure that has significant scaling challenges ahead of them. That's always kind of been one of Syria's weakest points has been How does it actually perform for everyone everywhere all the time And So far, they have not done well at that. But this is a whole different architecture with probably all different infrastructure also because it it's such different requirements to run all these you know, modern LM flagship level things. So This is going to be totally different than whatever CR was running on before. So that's promising in the sense that they have another chance to get it right. Maybe they will this time And then the other part is A support That's going to that's still a huge open question I don't think we yet have great tooling as developers yet to know like Are we plugging in correctly to the new series system with our app intents? Is it reading them? Is it indexing them? L I think that's still a little bit early in the current betas, but I haven't actually tried it, so I could be wrong about that but that's kind of what I'm hear. But you know, we have That challenge of like our apps going to be able to really get in there and adopt this. like is that going to be ready this fall And then secondly from that, Will developers do it? As I was saying last time, like, you know, do developers have The righting like the incentive to do this or do developers want to not be like disintermediated and to not have Si, you know, be the face of their app to their customers with developers rather have customers go into their apps to do what they want to do. And I think for most big companies, the answer is definitely the ladatter on that. For most small developers like us. We want to do things right by the platform because we're nerds and we're Apple fans. so we'll probably do it. But that all remains to be seen I think it's going to be a very interesting fall and winter Uh just seeing like which big companies adopt this at all and How does all of this scale as everyone gets it thing I'm mainly watching for as this rolls out in addition to the things that you mentioned is What does their iteration look like? Because every other competitor in this space changes all the time. There's new versionions coming out all the time, minus the government stopping them from coming out, which is currently a problem. But you know, that's They don't wait an entire year to make any change in their agents. They're always tweaking them a little bit. evenven if it's not like, oh, GPT five point four five point five five point six, even in between there, there are little tweaks here and there that they make Apple's not has never been on that type of cycle certainly has never been on that type of cycle with Siri before. Now that they arere using this third party stuff, will they have like an interim release like I don't know, like twenty seven by twenty seven point three or twenty seven point four, it's like now actually we've swapped in all new models because we've got slightly better ones That would be great, but that hasn't really been the way if they have been doing it at the Si, it hasn't made any kind of noticeable change for the better. It's just me the lateral movever made things worse. So I hope they keep up with the.. I don't know the nature of the Google deal and it's not clear exactly how those models came to be. but You can be sure that Google is continuing to make new and better models new and better Gemini models for itself Hopefully Apple's Dal has something that it's not just like a one time thing. It's like we get access to these models which are, you know, we're probably like Maybe they were new when the deal was signed or new ish when the deal was signed, but over the course of the next year, If those just stay the same, the rest of the industry is going to keep moving forward and Apple's going to be using late twenty twenty five, early twenty twenty six models when everyone else is you know moving along. So I hope I hope they have at least a plan to continue to develop that The whole rest of the stack also obviously needs to be developed and debugged and improved and made better But underneath it all in the end are the models. One thing they could iterate on and I hope they'll iterate on is their world knowledge thing that we talked about in an earlier episode where They're not doing Google search for Fs, but they have their own sort of world knowledge index Apple's got to keep that up to date. Apple's got to make sure good info is in there and fix mistakes and keep adding new stuff because world knowge the world changes every day. And so that world knowledge thing needs to keep up with sport scores and holidays and national events and celebrities who are alive and dead and taking stuff from callall sheet, ready? Like it's just They can't just like wed have a world knowledge thing and we'll just leave it until next WWDC. Nope, you can't do that either. So ye Here's hoping, but like these mention these things because they historically have not been Apple strength To say the least But Apple strength can change. so hopefully they're With the new leadership, hopefully they realize It's not enough to have this big coming out party at WWDC twenty twenty six and ro'll all at these betas and say now we're done until next year because you're not. We are sponsored this week by Quince. 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Quintinces is now available in Canada too, that's QuNcE dot com slash aP for free shipping and three hundred sixty five day returns Quince dot com slash eightTP. thank you to Quintince for sponsoring the show All right, let's do at least a touch of askk ATP. and Aar writes, onene of the expectations from Apple after they moved to M sereries Chips was that they would have complete control over release cadence. However, it turns out this cadence is even more haphazard than the Intel era We currently have a situation where the M five was released first on an iPad of all products, while the desktops are languishing on M four or even M three chips. I should note that this has been in the show notes for at least a couple of months now. But coment somehow.an I also just interrupt here for a minute This is not more haphazard than the Intel era was. We were there, trust me. I lived did, man. Anyway, MR continues. To make matters worse, it seems as if the Mac Studio may not even get M five. We're eight months into the M five life cycle, it makes no sense to bring M five to the Mac Studio now.. If you're in the market for the absolute balls to the wall desktop that would last you seven or eight years, John Syracusea You have nothing because investing in a M three ultra makes zero sense. None of this is because of the RAM crisis. Apple still ships tons of products with RAM. Is this really by design? I'd be shocked if it is, Or has something gone really, really wrong Well, the premise of this is that they would have complete control of Eie's kidens They don't have more control, but complete control they can never have because they don't fab their chips and they don't control the world. So they are sidwiped by the RAM crrisis. They are sideswiped by NvidD becoming TSMC's best customer Stuff happens And I don't know how old this was in the notes, but like, Everything in it's slightly outdated because of the news we just read, but like we kind of got spoiled by the M one M two, M three cycle where it seemed at least somewhat predictable and under control And I bet if Apple did have complete control, they would continue a orderly progression like that. But they don't and they have to be reactive And so the current chaos that you're seeing where it's like M six, never mind. We're not even doing those M six. the ultra is going to get. We're not going to do an ultra for the M four. We'll just put the M three ultra in there but much too late. And then M five of the Max stududio. That's going to be later too and actually it's going to be the only thing and because we're skipping all the M sixs and we're going to do the M seven and Intel might fab it. like That's the world. That's the world we're living in right now. and Intel wasn't more chaotic, but it was worse in that there were long periods where we had nothing. And then when we did get something it wasn't good. And so at least now it's like there's this menu of things that we think are going to be awesome. and sometimes the things get taken off our menu or pushed out into the future. But every one of those M things, speaking of the M chcks in particular, every one of those M things was tailored made to Apple specifications for specific product needs. And maybe some of them don't ship and get delayed or whatever But when we get them, It's a thing that Apple very intentionally made that works really well. Whas Apple and Intel, their relationship was basically Apple trying to cajole and coerce and beg. Intel to make the kinds of chips they wanted and Intel saying,, I guess we'll put a really big integrated GPU because you need it for your laptops. and so we'll put this in one of our chips and just Is this what you wanted? an Apples Lnic? I mean kind of, but like It just it was never, you know Intel Apple was an important customer to Intel, but Apple wanted very specific things that Intel would give them a little bit of what they wanted based on the chips they had and the things they could add for them. And I bet Intel thought it was bending over backwards. Like C can you believe we're doing this custom integrated GPU just for Apple, this one customer? Can you believe we're doing this? And then Apple's like, but we would change a lot of stuff about that chip, not just the GPU. And so yeah, Apple gets to make its own chip. So I do think things are better than Intel The current situation with the you know the rumored M six Pro Max and ultra cancellation, the already past lack of an M four ultra, the studio waiting forever for an M five and still doesn't have it. I think when the person was writing this, they maybe didn't expect this to be the case, but it still doesn't have it. And I'm going to be happy to get M five Max in like December. Yeah, it's a tough old world that we live in, but it's still better than Intil. Yeah. like I think the the reality is that what Apple Silicon brings us is Apple gets to design exactly the chips they want Unfortunately, The chips they want need to be manufactured by somebody And that is both incredibly complicated and difficult and there's lots of different variables and conditions that go into that. And also, as mentioned earlier, Apple is no longer TSMC's biggest customer or most important customer necessarily. And so they have to compete other vendors for that for that manufacturer's time and for for the yield on those high end lines And so, you know, we like to think like, oh, just when you when you go to the next ship, like every year, you just Make another one and make it better Okay, yeah, I mean that sometimes you can do that. but What does it mean to make it better Well, you might be redesigning something that might take a lot of time. It might be really complicated. You might be know trying to figure out how how do you squeeze more performance out of the same you know feature size, you know without without being able to you know, shrink down the process. And then when you do shrink the process down, but what if the new process works a little bit differently than the old one? Like how do they shrink it? And what does that mean for all the different little tiny gates and stuff that are in the chip And sometimes things need to be built a little bit differently, or things need to be designed a little bit differently when you change the process It's a very complicated implementation of the idea of make a new chip every two years or every year Like that sounds so simple, but the reality of that is incredibly complicated. And if there is any little bump in the road when tackling any of those challenges, that can push date out or that make that can make a whole type of chip maybe not worth making or impractical to make or it would make the yield so low that it would be way too expensive and know it wouldn't really sell at those prices or You can actually design something thinking it'll work. you can start manufacturing it, thinking it'll work, and then the yields might just suck for a while or forever. mayaybe on that whole process, like back when they made like the N four P or N four E, whatever that was Like B was the one that only Apple ever bought. Right. because like it turned out that was just super expensive and not amazing yields forever, it just as kind of the nature of the process, like All of those things are really complicated. So by Apple bringing in the design, that helps a lot. doesn't avoid the inherent complexity of the rest of that system So Apple does a really good job generally in lots of ways hiding the reality of the complexity of their supply chain and design process from the customers That's part of the reason why the recent price changes were kind of were so surprising because Apple like Apple went through All of COVID. without really ever being out of stock of anything for very long And without really being short supplied on components and without really changing any prices They were the only ones. Everyone else had massive supply chain problems during those years again, for very good reasons But Apple didn't. Now, I'm sure behind the scenes, they were, you know, putting out fires constantly. but they hid all that from us. They they masked it all with execution and competence and buffers and whatever else they were doing, we never felt that it from the outside. Apple presents the impression of simplicity We've gone from the M four to the M five It is fifteen percent faster in this way. it is thirty percent faster in this way. Everything kind of costs the same and here you go But behind the scenes, that's really complicated and they're hiding a lot from us. So Sometimes they're able to most of the time, they're able to hide that complexity Sometimes they're not So in a case like when you have the really huge ultra chips that's kind of an edge case. L they those are the hardest runs to make in certain ways. They are probably the lowest volume sellers. They, you know, they probably have the lowest yields. That's a complicated chip to make. and things that work for a chip generation for all the other chips they make might not work for the ultrra chip or whatever it is. So I am not surprised to see bumps like that to see, o, sometimes the the big studio is going to skip a generation or whatever That happened before with Intel and Intel had their good reasons and it's happening now with Apple and Apple has also good reasons. That is that is just inherently inevitable when you when you're doing things as this complexity If these M six rumors are actually true, it will be interesting sometime in the future to find out Did Apple actually design an M six Pro, an M six Max and an M six Ultra and basically just had to throw in all that work because because if the rumor is that like, This is motivated by multiple crises. onene, the difficulty of getting manufacturing, but two, the idea that like AI, doing local AI is super important and apparently the M seven design has some kind of advancement that is a significant advantage for on device AI And so I can see Apple saying, I know I know like the M six Pro Max Ultra, they're great chips. you all did a great job And it's going to be a shame to throw it away, but like If we can get the M seven six months sooner by just not doing the M six, we should do that because it's more important like and I honestly, I think that's a reasonable call. L if the M seven it actually is better, I would rather have that six months early and just skip the M six. but If you just paid all your employees to design those things, maybe they've been test fab, like it's just it's just such a shame to say, yeah, we spent team spent, you know, years working on these chips and we just have to go, sorry, that's, I mean it's like, you know, people who make a movie that never gets released. Like the movie is finished and done, the studio kills it for a tax write off I feel bad if that's the case. Now maybe this rumor iss not true and those MSRpts are going to come out and maybe they just literally never designed them, although I don't think that's the case because the design timelines on these are long enough that they have to have been working on them. Or maybe they made the decision three years ago and has nothing to do with the RAM crisis. We don't know because again, they're just rumors. There are many plausible scenarios that are just a damn shame. you know, like, especially if you're on that team. And like and I bet like M six like what they've done with the M series has shown, you know, there are good years and bad years, but none of them have been stinkers. Like they've always sometimes they're interesting in weird ways or whatever, but like All the M chips are good, you know, and they've all made advancements in some way for certain applications. And again, I think we were spoiled by like They're going to come out with an M series. It's going to have a number on the end and there's going to be a non suffix one, a proro, a max and an ultra, and the ultra is going to be two maxes together and they're just going to increment that number every year and it's going to be smooth sailing and that family just is disintegrated. like it's like that that cadence is apparently not pllausible in the current world because if you map it out and you see the release cadence and how they've kind of spread and distributed and holes have been formed where certain chips just never arrive and we're getting more holes and more delays and more like you know, as Amar points out, like it seemed really weird when like a new M chip would debut on an iPad. is the M stand for myPad? like its it's supposed to be a MacCip and it comes out on iPad first. That's just the way it worked out. and Yeah, so I'm still happier in this error. I'm even as disappointed as I am with the lack of high end chips. and I do I do remember, in case someone's going to write in about this. Way back in the beginning of the M series or maybe somewhere in the middle, like there was some rumor from someone saying yeah, all the all those quad chips like the the rumored M one that was going to be like four maxes stuck together. That chip was canned. we couldn't do it and At some point there was a rumor or something that was saying like, and by the way, Keep your hopes up for any other sort of like quad type chip because the roadmap has been laid out and the earliest there could even possibly be a monster chip like that is the M seven genereration And that was that was years ago when I came out And all they were saying was I've seen the roadmap for M one through M six and it's not on there. So They weren't saying that the M seven one was going to be that. they were saying that it's not M one through M six. And I think we were on like M two or three like, oh really? Not until M seven M seven is the future. That's so far away. Here we are. The M seven may arrive. And I mean, back then they weren't saying that the M seven generation was going to concentrate on device AI because that wasn't really a thing back then. but Now it is. so again, I don't expect a quad type thing for the M seven. I would still love to see an ultra of that's not too maxes stuck together, but it doesn't seem like that's in the cards either. So yeah, like I said, I'm not waiting for the M seven, but I am excited that I'm excited that this rumor says that Apple is so excited about the M seven that they're willing to sacrifice you know, what Th three quarters, I can't do fractions. Most of their M six line, all of their M six line except for the single presumably single die, no suffix M six that they're going to sacrifice all of those just so the world can get the M seven a little bit sooner. And I say Go for it Apple All right, let's continue with Matthew Southworth, who writes, I enjoy the discussion about languages in the Overtime segment of episode six hundred and ninety six, including Apple's assertion that Swift can be used as a replacement for languages from C to Pearl. It occurs to me that if code is being developed agentically, the choice between a lower or higher level language might differ. If no human is going to review the code, shutter, maybe the bots should work closer to the metal for more efficient code. Conversely, maybe the wealth of available libraries for open source frameworks would make sticking to those frameworks more effective I understand what Matthew's going for here, and I'm curious to hear what you two think, buts the thing that struck me about this is that And maybe it's just that I haven't seen it, but I got to imagine there's not a lot of like AM or X eighty six assembly code posted online, I shouldn't say not a lot. nowhere near as much assembly code, for example, posted online as there is CC plus plus, Swift, Pel, PHP, et cetera, et cetera. So if you're relying on a thing that needs a whole corpus of data to train upon I would think you would want to that thing to be the language that it has the most data about, you know, something like a C plus plus or perhaps Perl or whatever, you know, where the LLM knows so much about whatever the language is and it's seen so much code from whatever the language is that it's going to it's more likely to do a good job as opposed to like assembly, which I gott to imagine, there's not near as much assembly floating around the world as there is Parl I feel like Matthew's question here is , you know, again, one of one of the many traps that the LMs lead us toward, which is It's so easy to map ono them the things that we have been exposed to and like science fiction media And that, well, yeah, we have these high level languages for us. But computers are computers. And so they don't need to they're unlike us. and they're unlike us in the ways that I have seen computers be unlike us in the movies, which is things that are nonsensical to us computers can understand. So why bother with these high level languages when computers can just understand the binary language of moisture evaporators and they can just understand the machine code. so they don't need. And in some respects, like they're on the right track in that computers aren't like us and they have different strengths than we do The other respect is theyre like LMs are not movie computers. Like, oh computers understand binary things, therefore they should need to use high level languages. But as you just pointed out, Casey LM how LMs how this specific technology works is Training data is the thing that determines like their training determines what they are. And you need lots of data to train them And if you if you're looking for lots of data, There is lots of seago, man there is less assembly. And you say, well, the C code turns into assembly when you compile. so why don't they just learn from that? And that gets to my second point, which is Computers also benefit from all the same things that humans benefit with high level languages in that there are They don't have to think about certain details when they're using a higher level language. and then there can be certain assumptions they can make about how the high level languages work because languages like C and other languages provide some guarantees about how things work. notot that you know exactly what assembly will be created by the compiler, but there are certain That's what a high level language provides. It provides certain behaviors above and beyond the behaviors defined by assembly itself. You do lots of things in assembly, but from C, there's a subset of those things. These structures will always give these guarantees, so on so for. Obviously it's undein beavior and sort ofuff in C. But I'm just saying like benefits of high level languages. Those benefits also benefit LLMs. It makes them able to code without worrying about the low level of concerns the same way it does to us evenven though we operate differently, that combination of things I feel like can't be overcome. the massively larger amount of training data and the fact that they can work better in high level language. Then I'll add a third one, which is If you're paying per token you want to use a higher level language because this bottom line is there's fewer characters produced, There's just fewer at the minimum, there's fewer output tokens, but probably there's also fewer input tokens because if you're feeding at some source code and saying, what's wrong with this, I'd rather feed it a paragraph of C instead of a much longer several paragraphs of assembly because yeah, it takes more instructions. like that that's the nature of high level language. So I know what Matthew's getting at, but I just think it's like it's about barking up the wrong tree. like they they're not movie computers, they're not magic. they don't They don't know speak in binary and you know, wouldn't they be more comfortable binary? becausecause they're computers are robots, they're large language models they deal with text pieces of text. They don't deal with them the way humans do exactly. Like they don't even go a letter at a time. Those tokens aren't necessarily single letters. It's like how can it make sense of things when it's doing like pairs of letters or three like Do doesn't make any sense. It's like, yes, they're not exactly like humans, but they are in fact large language models and They turn all that stuff into numbers and build these giant anyyway, but I should we should have to turnnal links to those Three brown, one blue But ye, I don't Yeah, the way they work is not like the way humans work, but In the end, you should at least consider how they work, which is they get trained on data And yeah, there's a lot more C code than assembly. Yeah, I think the I kind of mused a couple of months back like Have we developed the last programming language in the sense that at least like the last widely used programming language in this and what I mean by that is like, do we have any reason to make new languages now, really for mass use because You what my thin on that was like LMs have now been trained on all the languages that we have., you know, like that people publish code for in large volumes. They are not surprisingly really good at JavaScript because there's a lot of JavaScript out there right now U they're they're pretty good at at Swift. They're pretty good at sea there and then they're, you know, as you kind of get Down like you know the less commonly published languages on the web these days, you know,' they're okay at PHP, know, I'm sure they're okay at like Ruby and Pearl and Python. you keep going down like a little bit lower in the in like the usage list. L I'm sure they have they've seen a lot of Java and maybe they maybe they've seen a little bit of objective C. mayaybe they've seen a little bit of regular C, you know, probably a lot of C plus plus, but maybe not so much rust, like you start to get like the lesser use languages and If you're doing LLM based development based on what they've been trained on, as John is saying probablyrobably they're going to be best at the languages that they have seen the most So My thinking generally on that is like we probably want LLMs to be writing Whatever is the most popular language that can be used to develop the type of app on the platform that they're building. So If you're making a web app You probably want it to be making JavaScript, you, on the backac end and the front end for that. If you're making an iPhone app, you probably want to be using Swift You know, that kind of thing And now that we've had all these languages out there and training the LMs willfully or willingly or not Does it make sense to invent a new language now that would be kind of from scratch from the LLM's perspective you know, if we're if we're going to use LMs to help us write code or to write it for us most of the time in the future, which does not seem that remote of a possibility shouldn't we use a language they've been trained on Which kind of means why would we ever make another language again But that being said LLMs are also getting really sophisticated all the time And that keeps getting you more and more the case. As they get smarter, they have more training, they have more parameters, they have more sophistication in their harnesses and their prompting and everything else. What we are seeing, I think, is that Over time, LMs will actually not even care what the languages they're asked to generate because they're thinking higher level they're seeing higher level patterns and they will have just as easy of a time generating one language as any other language because they're just kind of outputting patterns and the training data was more about like building those mental patterns than the specifics of It must be this language, you know, printed out this way. So I think ultimately Right now, the answer is If you're going to have an LM write code, make it a popular langage. I bet in the fairly near future The answer will be who cares, it doesn't matter Let the LM write whatever it wants to write I don't know if there's anything in the wayMs currently work that will help it in not care about the language because in the end it has to make has to know the syntax and output it and very much parot back code structuure to similar what it's seen. So I don't think it's becoming language independent. But to your earlier question I think it's important to ask like Why do we make new languages? Forget about LLMs. why do we ever make new programming language? Whyt aren't we in the same situation of like, well, all these programmers were trained in the languages that exist and we should just keep using them? Why bother making a new language at all? Because when you make a new language, people don't have experience with it, they haven't seen it before, they don't know it, now they have to learn it. and its just it's a big hassle Um But the reason we do it is because the new languages offer some benefit that the other language didn't just look at Apple with objector C and with my Copel in twenty ten articles where was saying, Hey Apple needs a modern language. Everyone was love and obbjective C in twenty ten. and I was like, No, they they have a looming language crisis. They need another language because objective C is too to low level. They need a modern language. And there was pushback from obbjective C developers saying obbjective C is great. I don't see why you think we need something different. We've all been using it. All the frameworks are written in it all the apps are written in it. I don't Why do you need another language? It's just it's going to be worse in every way. Like people are going to suddenly start with zero years experience with this new language they weren't LMs, but they have the same issue which is like we're already trained, so to speak, on objective C, and everything's written in objective C. So what the hell you doing? And the answer was Existing languages have problems. It's difficult to write correct bug free secure code in these languages because they have undefined behavior, they have pointers, like h, you know, manual retaining release before the days of Arc, all that other stuff like We've shown that it's really difficult to write this correctly LMs are no different. They will make more mistakes in a language that allows them to make more mistakes. They'll make more security problems. they'll make more bugs if it is more possible in the language That's why a memory safe language will humans will make fewer memory bugs in a memory safe language, and so will LLMs And that's why we keep making new langag. That's why we made C instead of doing everything in assembly. It's why we made all these higher level languages. is because They provide a way for a thing of some skill, whether that's a person or an LLM, to write fewer lines of code, which is fewer tokens for LMs, but it's less work for humans and to make fewer mistakes because of the design of the language. And I don't think that will change Um Because like it's not as if Swift is going to be the end all be all. you know, it just seems like C' is going to be the end all be all when everyone moves on to C, but then you know, C plus objector C come along and it's like, well I guess that's a little bit better And then the memoryfeanguage, whyy is r Rust popular? Why is everyone reriting all their seas pl pluss and Rust becausecause human LLM either way Fewer security bugs, fewer, you know, memory bugs are like just It's just safer, right? And all for all the benefits that we see in Swift, all the things that the Swift comppiler does and Swift Language does are so focused on trying to make certain kinds of bugs if not impossible been either really hard to do or a lot of swift design is like We have to allow you to do this, but every time you do it We're going to put something in the code so it's easy for both the human and an LM to find For example, if you search your swwift code for the word unsafe UN SAFE, that should point you to a lot of places where you're doing a thing that bypasses some protection And that's that's easy to grip for. It's easy to RG for for a recursive grip and these agents U And so there will be some language after Swift That is better than Swift in the ways that Swift was better than obbjective C, and humans will want to use it, and so will all the agents if we get to the point where Humans don't want to make a new language because they can't imagine a way that a language can be better Th thenen we'll be at the end of history and we don't even learn any more programming languages, but that's going to happen in my lifetime for sure. I mean, I don't know how long Swift is going to go Swift does still let you do a bunch of unsafe stuff. and two hundred years from now, someone's going to think it's barbaric all the unsafe stuff that we can do Swift justust like, why did they even allow that in a language? Like, Well they had to because it was trying to replace C code and the certain things you can't do and blah, bl, blah. and there are two hundred years in the future. It's like, Our languages don't allow that at all. L we have so much safety guarantees and mathematically proable correctness and impossibility of you know, security flaws in these five realms. and we're fighting these other realms that you hadn't even thought of for quantum computers and stuff like that. But of course, we got all those basics solved. so I think we'll continue to have new languages and I think everyone will benefit from them language models and human life Finally, Phil Cam writes, do you collect vintage computers? If not, which three vintage computers would you like to have in your collection I do not I will say this is not an officially answer of mine, but I will say I happened to hold the MacBook adorable earlier today and I keep thinking about like the Intel CPU conversation from earlier and I held this thing and it just is so amazing. And I know we've talked about this a hundred times, make it one hundred and one now. a modern cut of that with Apple silicon on the inside would be so amazing. But anyway, to actually answer Phil's question, I grew up on Thinkpads, that's what I'd want. I would want a Think Pad seven hundred one C, which is what you would know is the one with the butterfly keyboard. Kids look at Wikipedia, We'll put it a link in the show notes And I would also want a ThinkPad T thirty, which was I'm pretty sure that was my college computer. I freaking love that thing. It was incredible at the time. I would probably ask for two Th pads. John, you would want the entirety of every Mac that has ever been made. So Marco, I think your answer will be much more interesting. What would you? Honestly, I don't think I would really use one. I think that theswer I use it. Yeah. Yeah, the answer is like I really shouldn't go buy vintage computers because I just won't use them whatever I've bought Yeah know like I bought my palm pilot that I talked about like I bought I bought a Palm five X a couple years back off VBay because you can you can get one like Brand new condition for like twenty five bucks. and it it was fun playing with it for like, you know, an evening. As it turns out Modern computing devices are way better than old ones Who knew? You know, if I was gonna to have if we were going to do a video show And I wanted to have a background That looked cool on video, right? get you know, I'd get like a trash canan Mac Pro and put it on a shelf, you know, stuff like that. Like you know, I would have that that kind of fun vintage computer stuff basically as scenery behind me in video, which many people do. for this reason. but to actually use them, to actually try to like keep them running and use them One of the problems you quickly face, which is something that you don't really face with game consoles is that Computers really rely a lot more on ecosystem around them. especially once computers became mainly internet terminals. How if you have a vintage computering device of some kind First of all, what kind of Wi Fi radio does it have? Does it even have a Wi Fi radio? Does it have networking If not How are you going to get any software onto it What is it going to do? And then if you can get it to actually like connect to the interternet if it's that kind of device Will it support any modern TLS protocol to be able to connect to any server today Probably not. If it is, say an old IiOS device. Will it have like the right code signing support server side still running to let it do any you know, install any software, you know, run any app. like You start running into problems like that with a lot of kind of mid vintage computer equipment. Now if you go back far enough to stuff that didn't really use the internet for anything or didn't need the internet for anything at least. you start having more options of like what you can get running and do something with. But then, you know, it is more of a novelty. It's like okay, well, I can I can, you know, boot up classic MacOS And do what? Like what am I gonna to do in it, right? All I did my whole childhood was boot of classic MacOS and do what? There was no ide. Right. L and that's I mean, that is how I use my entire first computer for Much of the time that I had it was like I would, you know, have a couple of games. I would have CQ basasic and I would turnurn it on and do what? L for hours, like sure But to do that today, I don't know. again, I'm never bored. So I'm never looking for something like that. Like I always have a million of things I want to be doing. So I don't think I don't think that kind of hobby is for me It's the kind of thing that I like watching like when other people on the internet do cool stuff with Victict computers. I like watching to see what they do with it. It's a fun thing to kind of see breeze through like a social feed or a blog post or a YouTube video. that's not for me I find it fascinating this question about collecting vintage computers morehgost of what are you going to use them for? And I will point out much like collecting books. Collecting books is a different hobby than reading books. Sometimes they're combined. but not always. So the idea that you would actually have to use these computers to collect. It's like, no, sometimes collecting. is the end product. and it's not the using of computers. And on your second point about what are you going to do with them I think it shows the bifurcation in your in your not both your knowledge of this scene and also And sadly, the technology You're very familiar with old IOS devices And one of the shames about them is if they don't have a good jailbreak available for you It's sometimes difficult to get those more lockdown IiOS devices to you know, do interesting things because like again, if you don't have access to a good jail brereak h you're limited to what they used to do and if like the servers aren't up or the software doesn't work, or as you said,'TLS, blah in the realm before our closed down platforms Man, people are adding Wiifi to Mac pluses, okay? Like there are there are web browsers written for classic MacOS with modern TLS, People writing them today day they're writing them. They're writing them in like people' I think someone just was writing a bunch of apps in Swift. Steve John Smith was just reporting his apps in Swift to classic MacOS so it can run like a one hundred and twenty eight K Mac and stuff. like This for the computers that are not locked down People just write stuff or have LMs write stuff. So yeah, none of the web browsers work They write a new one If they re a new web browser to run on a machine with one hundred and twenty eight kilobytes of RAM that had never seen the internet. And you know, they have for WiFi hardware, they have like you know, little peripherals that you can buy and plug into your Mac SE and now your Mac SE is on WiFi. and it doesn't even know what TCPIP is, but it's like there's like an AppleTalk interface to it and just the stuff out there for Igineous computers is, that's a whole separate hobby. There's collecting them. then there's I have them and I'm going to like make them work in the modernine. I someone wrote a sllack client for it. Someone recently was showing a markdown editor On a classic map like this is stuff. It looks so weird to see it like on a nine inch monochrome black and white screen onn a computer from the eighties and someone's writing markarkdown and they, you know, like do two asterisks around something or one or whatever it is a markdown and then the text slants and becomes italic. It's just People have weird hobbies For me, I do collect vintage computers. I don't collect them to use them, mostly because I don't have time and space and place to use them. So it's more of just a collecting, collecting thing. But the other thing is I only for the most part, collect things that I use, likeike I already did this. I lived it. I had these computers as my one and only main computer that I used for years and years and years Or I had similar computers, like for example, I have a Mac two FX because I always wanted one. I never had a Mac two FX because it cost so much as a car, but I bought mine for twenty bucks Many, many, many years later. I just always wanted to own one because it was such a cool computer, but I had its peers. I had computers of similar power in within a few years of that or you know, whatever Um, And like Marco, I don't particularly have any desire to use older worse computers A, I already did that. I used them when they were old the worse and B, I like new computers that are better. But I do like collecting them as little art objects and sentimental things. That's why I have a next cube and a next slab. That hardware is so gorgeous. And I did in fact use them when they were contemporary and in college. and thought it wouldn't be cool to have one of these someday. And I bought those for like twenty or thirty bucks at the MIT swap U So I have so many things. Which three vintage computers would I like to have? I think I have basically everything that I want. For a while I wanted to get an emate. I always was on the lookout for one, but I didn't really want one one, though I'm not super into them. It's just as a shame that I never found one So emate's kind of in there, but honestly the emateatess kind of ugly Um Don't have a Newton two thousand or twenty one hundred or whatever Um, I mean, I think I saw one of those in just too much I'm fine with not having that because I never actually used that one at the time I don't know. I don't think there' I do have a trashcan Mac Pro Um I've got all the big Mac pros that I want. It's kind of sad that my two thousand eight Mac Pro, The front of it was dented by a vacuum cleaner. tough. It was back when it was on the floor. It's one of the reasons my twenty nineteen Mac Pro was elevated up off the floor, No no danger to vacuums. Maybe I'd like wheels for it, I just have the one wheel instead of the four wheels I don't know, I'm sure I can think of something, but here I mean My wife iss listening to this and saying, you do not need anventage computer since she's right. I need to get rid of. I need to get rid of Tons of computers before I think about it even getting another one of them. I did I did bring the trash can in because it's small and I did want one of those. so I got a trash canan Um, Yeah, I think the main thing is which thirty computers are you going to get rid of, not which three would you like to have in your collection Thank you to our sponsor of this episode, Factor and Quince. And thanks to our members who supp us directly. you can join us at ATPs FM slash join. One of the many perks of membership is ATP oververtime, our weekly bonus topic. This week in oververtime, we're going to be talking about the Ubiquity Enterprise NAS, a new offering from Ubiquity. You know we love Ubiquity and we love NAS's So we're going be talking about that in overtime ATPFM slash join if you want to hear that and hear so much other stuff. Thank you so much to everybody and we'll talk to you next week Now the show is over. They didn't even mean to begin ' it was accidental Oh it was accidental John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him 'cause it was accidental It was accidental And you can find the show not atp dot m And if you're into mastodon, you can follow them at CAS E Y L ISS so that's Casey Lis M A R C O A R M Anti Marco Armen SI R AC USS Syacuse It's accidental mean to accidental Cck bodcast so long All right, so I have a weird technical support question and I bet I have done something wrong But I can't figure out what heck it So I have for I generally have my devices in a In a focus mode that only lets through like a handful of contacts. and I didn't think about until just this moment that I should have tested this issue outside of that focus mode to see if that focus mode might be part of the problem. But let's assume it isn't The issue that I have is particularly on my watch, this is most egregious on my watch. I will feel the tap tap. when those people that are blessed through that focus mode text me I'll feel the tap tap when I'm not in the focus mode, which is not common, but it happens. when I'm not in the focus mode and I'll feel a tap tap when people text me that are, you know, just regular people or people that are not special enough to be in my, you know almost all the time focus mode However almost positive that I never get a haptic notification when Earon text me Which is crappy because the one person I want to always get a tap tap from is my wife. Is this an elaborate setup here for you to try to for us to try to like excuse you from something that you're Partially about Partially No, no, it's not that I'm not answering your text. They never tap on my phone. Listen to the next ADP and I'll explain it U yeah, I mean, that is a little bit of this, but like she we haven't had any particular conversation about this in a fair bit of time now, but There are times that she wants a semi urgent response from me and very understandably gets a little perturbed when I'm like, I didn't even see your text. Now I will note that I had way back when set up a custom like haptic notification on the phone for when she calls. there's a way, I think it's an accessibility. There's a way to set up a custom buzz basically when she calls. And since my phone is always silent, my watch is always silent, insofar as it doesn't makeverb or not verbal but it doesn't make audible noise There's got to be something I have done wrong that That is causing me to not receive the tap tap when she sends me a text on my watch. And for the life me, I can't figure it out. I did look and in the contacts app There is there are a bunch of different like toggles that you can do. And one of them is you know silence notifications. I'm sorry, that's not in contxt. That's in the messages app One of them is silence notifications. and I'm looking at my phone when I say this. Now maybe this exists on the watch and I've somehow turned it on and I don't know it, but on my phone, I see, I'm sorry, it's hide alerts, which is off And then I generally don't send read receipts, read receipts, withate however we pronounce it, but I have those on for her. I have showh and shared with you turned on. I have share fooccus status turned on, which I also don't typically turn on for most people. She is like As special as I can make her be in the in message on my phone. And for whatever reason, I cannot figure out why my watch does not do a tap tap when she sends me a text. Oh Actually, that's mostly true. Interesting wrinkle. It seems to be when it's only when she sends me a text in the conversation between onlyn she and I. We are on a zillion different group chats where she will break through, like for example, in fooccus mode, which is what I want for the record She will breakth through in a group chat where none of the other people in the group chat are blessed in this particular focus mode And she'll break through in the group chat messages, but if she sends me a private message, so to speak I don't get it. bothoth in the sense that I don't receive it and also I don't understand what's happening. So that's I this is a call for help. This is This is one of the advantages of being on the show is that you can ask for help and crowdsource this. What have I done wrong? It's gotta be something I've done. What have I done wrong? Please help me. I would love to know because I have exactly the same problem. Are you serious? A lot of husbands seem to have a technical reason why they don't answ sex on time matter. interesteresting. And this is not good for spousal relations. It is not, Marco. Let me tell you. I can't confirm. It is really not It I would please, if you figure out the answer, let me so okay, my theory So I wear an Apple watchatch. And I'm usually when I am like not getting these messages, it is almost always when I'm at my computer I'm always at my computer. so that's that might not be anything. But But yeah, I don't know what it is, but There is something about like me being at my computer where My theory is that like one of the devices is kind of saying I got this. I'm currently being used. I'll alert the user And then the other ones don't I don't know My another theory is you know, if I'm in the middle of doing something in the middle of my tremendous monitor If a notification comes up in the corner Maybe I just don't see it. Like maybe it if I'm really focused on something Sorry, honey, it was too far away. Yeah. I mean mean like truly this happens to me a lot because remember, I'm going three up and if you're looking at the leftmost monitor and the notification is actually on the upper right hand corner of my centrer. But don't you have a bless to like make sound for her too You don't have sound notifications, come on. Just just for the one person. On your Mac. I mean, I would love to do that if such a thing is possible. I thought I did do that actually, But maybe the answer is maybe on the Mac, so you can send notifications to show momentarily. to stay there until you interact with them or dismiss them Maybe the answer is just to turn message notifications on in the way that they just stay there Yeah, I think I did that for her. say that until you have stacked up eight thousand notifications. Anyway, so I am genuinely gosmacked that you also have this problem, Marco. And I wish I could tell you like, yes, there have been some issues between she and I from time to time when she really needs a response and I just don't give it to her. And she's right. L I'm not trying to paint myself as correct. I am not. She is correct. What does she do that she call you in that case Well, sometimes we're you know we're in the house. That's the other thing that's hilarious. I br the same house. Well, she'll just scream my name instead that works. Yeah. But you know, something I want to talk about in a future episode of ATP is just how ridiculous and hilarious it is that when you have a couple that works from home, How much of our conversation during the day is done via text message? We're in the same freaking house. Like it's so not necessary. Our house is not that big. My son will call me from his bedroom. I'll be downstairs and he will call me a phone call from his bedroom. Yep. I mean we don't live in big houses. This is a regular size house, but yeet this is what Yeah he could just yell, I would hear him. Y. Anyways I've got to imagine that I have apparently we, Marco and I, have said something wrong, but I will be damned if I know what. and it stinks. Let me give you my third data point here that might help you I have this problem, but in reverse My wife tells me Oh I didn't see your text because my phone didn't vibrate or my watch didn't vibrate rather. Interesting. And what I think is I think Marker was on the right track with like we know Apple devices in theory coordinate with each other so they don't all have notifications. So one of them's got to say, I've got this And the other data point is I don't wear a Apple watch, but my wife does I don't have a problem of not seeing her messages. She doesn't see mine She's wearing an Apple Watch. Now my question for all of you is like When you're wearing the watch Okay, mayaybe the watch doesn't vibrate and you expected it to But does the notification show on your phone Yes. Is your phone a vibrure No, it doesn't because it is the watch has handled it, right? Well, I mean, obviously the watch hasn't handled it because you're saying your watch isn't vibrating, but like I do wonder if adding the watch to the mix is the thing that It exposes whatever Apple bug. Im first of all I'm saying I'm calling this an apppple bug Because so many people, like my wife and everyone else is always ask me questions exactly like you just phrased it, which is like, I expect to get a notification and I don't And very, very rarely it is a question of settings. muchuch more likely it is, you've got a dozen Apple devices and honestly, I don't even know what's supposed to happen here. but if we can demo it, we could be two feet from each other and my wife will say, send me a text message. I'll send it and And she's like, Nope, no vibration, no notification. know but then the next time I'll do it, it will or whatever. So I think it's Apple Bugs plus Apple Watch that causes this problem. And the solution is all get rid of your Apple watchatches I don't wantna. I know. The other thing I would say, Casey is I very suspicious of your fooccus mode as well. So I would do some experimentation without the fooccus mode. J just I turn everything off, turn like I am open to the entire world becausecause honestly, who's trying to text you during the day? It's fine. Just leave yourself open to the world and see how bad it actually is. If I recall correctly, so my general I haven't messed with this in literally years, but my general focus node U like routine is that when I sit down to work at about eight in the morning, I go into a work focus mode and YouTube knuckle headads can break through, Mike can breakth through. There's a couple of other people that break through. But generally speaking, it's one of those situations where I will see it when I will see a message when I go to the messages app. You know what I mean? Like It's not to notify me if So some random schmoe sends me a text And then in the once the kids are home from school granted, it's summer now, but once the kids are home from school I go into this kind of universal focus mode. I call it personal. What that basically means is Family can breakth through and Basically no one else. I actually genuinely don't remember if I have you guys and Mike on there or not. but for the most part in the personal focus mode, which is what I live on, Basically from the time the kids get off the bus until their bedtime then it's pretty much only family that can break through. And then in the evenings Typically, I'm pretty sure they all get turned off and I'm in like wide open, no no focus mode, wide open mode Um, And I think you're right, I do need to experiment with this. I think it's worth experimenting with my custom vibration, even though that is only for phone calls, if I'm not mistaken, but I should experiment with that I just don't understand why she, the one person I always freaking want to get texts from or notifications from, is the only person I consistently don't get them from. And specifically in the conversation with just the two of us, ' like I said, she will poke through on group chats. like a group chat will be popping off when I'm in the personal focus mode And I will see only her messages, which is chef's kiss. That's exactly what I want. becausecause whate it is's saying, whereatever she's saying it, I want to know and I want to know immediately For whatever reason, when she sends something in our private channel message whatever want a conversation, I guess, then then it won't notify me. and it's driving me frreaking crazy. I mean, you're highlighting the fact that she's special in that she has different settings than everybody else. so maybe unspecial her and make her have the same settings as everyone else. Also do some experiments with her two feet away. att le at the very least, this will give you more plausible cover when she thinks you're ignoring her messages. you say you don't becausecause if you do that experiment for a while until she's sick of like seen attacks like when she's like literally right next to you, howll, put your watch on her wrist. It say se att right? Of course, if it backfires on you and it constantly vibrates every time she does it, she's going to give you quite a look. but I'm taking all you at face value here and saying this is not elaborate cover for your past sins, but is in fact an actual technical problem, which I have no problem believing because Apple's notification system is very buggy.. And like I said, I'm on the other end of it. I'm on the one who the watch wearing wife is telling me now I just never never vibrated. I don't know why. All right, so let me ask you, so I'm looking at my personal focus and I'm looking at my iPhone And I have turned on intelligent breakthrough and silencing, which I don't think that's really relevant because of anything, that would make them come through, not come through. Anyways, so in the people category, I have you know you guys, Mike, Aaron, and a couple other people, basically like a couple family members and like basically the school trunk line So then I also have some apps that can breakth through, although not many. And below the people and apps section, there's an options thing or navigation link basically, where it says notification options. And it appears to me that everything on this screen is under the auspice of silence notifications. So there are four different options Show unlock screen on or off. I have it off Hide notification badges, I have it off, silence notifications, I have as always And and then I'm sorry, a different section is appearance, Dim lock screen, which I also have off. So so if I'm reading this right, silence notifications is showing lock screen, off, Hide notification badges off, silence notifications always But again, that's for the silence notifications. And then additionally, there's an option for appearance, Dimlock screen, which I also have off. So I don't think that's it either. It's got to be something I've set up wrong, but I'll be damn if I can figure out what Do only want Do you only want to answers from spouses or you take it from single people as well? I will take it from anyone T truly. I know you're kidding but I'll it from anyone. If you have answer I'd love to hear