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My book, which is titled Aspects of Alien Abduction, is now on Amazon You can get it on paperback, Kindle, and audiobobook And the audio book is also on Spotify This week, I'm talking to Jonathan Kaplan about his book, Not for Disclosure UFO's, the world's best kept secret He has utilized his career experience to seek out the most reliable UAP evidence and to evaluate information from highly placed contacts He has studied the phenomenon for over fifty years and served on the editorial board of a leading international UFO journal with distinguished correspondence Jonathan is a King's counsel. and one of the UK's premier Barristers Hi, Jonathan. than Thankks for coming on the podcast Simon, it's a very great pleasure and I'm looking forward to our conversation So we're going to talk about your book. It's called Not for Disclosure UFOs The world's best kept secret. That's right, published by Penguin Century Before we get into UFO's You're a KC Could you tell the listeners what that is? What do you do Yes, so basically I am a laawyer and in England we have barristers and solicitors, barristers of trial advocates And after a while, you can be appointed what's called a senior advocate, which is a king's cououncil, used to be a quQueen's council, but Now it's a King of the Council and So I really do advocacy in courts U and I've worked here in the UK And I've also worked in other jurisdictions such as Hong Kong Singapore and elsewhere. So it's been interesting. I've been lucky to work on some quite interesting cases. but I've also very much enjoyed writing and Uphology has been one of my great interests now for over fifty years So I wanted to talk to you first of all about crashed craft. Yeah And first of all, though I just wanted to get your viewpoint on it Do you think these crafts genuinely crash All the it's almost like its it's a show. It's a put on or it's a It's a gift from whoever these ETs are of technology I think there's three possibilities And I think all three are likely firstly, Craft have been found, I understand which 've been there for hundredundreds of years and these are cft, which are almost archaeological finds And some of them been found under sea, some of them have been found in remote locations Secondly craft have actually crashed in recent years And of course, the big question is, well if they've got such advanced technology Why would they crash But there is a history of this Um, the now is quite a body of evidence that one of the first known crashes in the twentieth century was Maragenta in Italy and was discovered. by Mussolini Um. Then there are a number of crashes which occurred withithin the United States in the nineteen forties, Roswell was one of them. and that led to The involvement of President Truman and a body of scientists and intelligence officers, but the whole matter was obviously kept under wraps Then there are stories which I have been able to confirm that crafts are simply found and that has led to the suggestion that they've been gifted and that They've been found in different territories, for example, Russia China, United States, which are the leading powers obviously that are having reverse engineering programes And lastly There are a number of stories that craft have been deliberately brought down by in particular the United States using a particular form of weaponry, which allows them in certain circumstances to bring these craft down You think it's a bit weird? the aliens, whoever they are don't seem to have their own crash retrieval team or like an ambulance if it crashes and This crew that are still alive, but why don't they try and recover this stuff I think the answer to that is that the information I've received and others have also received is that that is V veryy often the case and that the teams that are deployed In the United States, those are special recovery teams and also the Department of Energy they are pretty much to give a pretty wide berth for a two mile area around crafts which have gone down for the very reason that you've given Now, whether craft have come down and have been successfully retrieved One must assume that's the case But equally, the legitimate question is, well, when they come down, whyy have they not been successfully retrieved? even when special forces have gone from one of the countries on Earth to retrieve them. I don't know the answer to that. The fact of the matter is that there's very good evidence that craft which have been crashed have not been recovered by whoever it is are the NHIs that occupy and control it but have actually been recovered by the United States or Russia or China You said earlier that the information you've received Are there people in government or military that you know who and giving you rumours and information, but they'd never go public. Yes, that's right there were a number of people u who I have to know and whose trust I've received over the years in the intelligence services, Not of this country, by the way. who have information of that kind and who I have spoken to over a number of years. I mean this book actually has been fifty years in the making and I've only recently decided to write it. But I've collected information over a long time. I'm not the only one of course, who has contacts of that kind. There are a number of other researchers whom you'll Probably know. who also are let's use the phrase well connected And I think that's largely because there is a debate within the three letter agencies as to whether there should be a total cover up or whether the public really ought to be given more information and informed about what are undoubtedly pretty startling events Do you feel that As the old guard, you might call them get older and they retire or perhaps they die The younger people that are coming through into those positions are more open minded and would more want to give out the information Well, there is certainly mixed views about those who are currently in these positions, they're almost all Career intelligence Oicers or very senior military figures or figures If they're not within the three letter agencies within the Department of Energy thats as far as the United States is concerned I think that There are very real concerns. regardless of the fact whether you're an old guard or a new boy and I think they're these Firstly the One of the prime reasons for the cover up since the nineteen forties and President Truman's era has been because There has been a Massive drive. to try and reverse engineer such anomalous objects or craft as they have been able to recover and We don't know how successful they've been. There are various therers But that technology is Very, very, very highly classified The craft in the United States H the subject of what are called special access programs and they are farmed out to military def sorry, defence contractors outside of government under these very highly controlled circumstances And that takes them outside the purview of normal freed of information Um provisions. So there's been a huge recognition that the technology If it can be recovered is to be regarded as highly secret because it would put that country in a position of likely dominance. I think there's a second reason which will bear on the old guard or the new guard And that is if you're going to say this phenomenon is real and that is now really just an open secret in Washington. I mean, so many people have come forward to say this is a very real phenomenon. and by the way, that there are crash crafts U If you're going to say it's real And you're going to announce that and it would probably in the United States have to be through the President then The obvious follow up questions are Well whereere are they from Are they friendly Um What's their agenda Do they believe in God and The answers to those questions simply are not known. I mean, there is probably some answers to some sources. But by and large, most of the major powers known the phenomenon is real But they simply don't know the source or the agenda, or the source is, I should say or the agenda And that would be very destabilizing So I think it's a very fine balance. On the one hand, we as members of the public have the right to know Other non human intelligences are here with us. Secondly those who are an authority clearly have concerns that they don't want to destabilize society or the markets or respectful law and order. and they're concerned that any disclosure? doesn't you know, achieve those ends So you said earlier that you think Russia and China have recovered crashed craft. Do you know any specific cases? Because the American ones are famous Russia and China. Well, of course those are adversaries and of course they have their own reasons for keeping their own security at very high level So as far as Russia is concerned Yes, there is some evidence The Russians have admitted that they have advanced programms into this and that's quuite well known U they u there are some documents regarding their reverse engineering programmes which were obtained at the time of the breakup of the Soviet Union. And I believe that the program was then described as G three I'd have to check that. my memory is not that good There's also evidence, I know this is very strange indeed. but there is good evidence that I've got from intelligence sources and more than one that a craft landed by arrangement in Soviet Russia in nineteen ninety four and that this was communicated pretty swiftly back to the Americans Now I'm not saying it landed for them to keep, but it was certainly a landing by arrangement As far as China goes, all we know is that they do have and they've admitted that they've got advanced programmes into UAPs the I have to say it's the assumption that they have crashcraft most people in the intelligence world would say that they have knowledge. I do not know what that knowledge is. that the Chinese are in possession of crashcraft But it's pretty certain that they do and one of the intelligence concerns, of course of the United States is that the technological race might be won by the Chinese rather than themselves And it really is a a matter of very high priority. So you mentioned a UFO crash in Magenta in Italy. In nineteen thirty three. get a lot of research done. Do you know anything about it? I mean, because leading into the Second World War and They had a you know, so much connection to the Nazis Well, that craft ultimately went back to the United States after the war What happened was that it was found by Mussolini' troops at Magenta They were not sure what it was and thought it might be some advanced kind of German craft And I understand that the Germans were brought in at the time to for their opinion and There was a special department set up under Mussolini called RS thirty three And there is an Italian researcher called a Pinoti PINO WTI who's done a large amount of work in recovering documents of the time. showing that where the craft was stored that it was, in fact, under the control of a very small unit, this unit RS thirty three, which answered only to Mussolini and though I mean the documentation regarding its recovery and its storage is now out there and thanks to Mr. Pinotti the Gentlemen, David Grush who is an American intelligence officer I gave quite famous now sworn evidence to the oversight commommittee in the US Congress a couple of years ago And referred to this crash. and Indeed H told as said in subsequent interviews that that craft came back to the United States At the end of the Second World War Quite how it was attrieved, I don't know It has been suggested and I think David Grush agreed that this was with the cooperation of the Zen current Pope. But it came back to the United States, yes. Evening by' remorse buy a new car, I'll be moving in. Let's get started. Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana. You what? Yeah, great price. I even' have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyer' rejoice I guuess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it. Buyers rejoice. Buy your car today on Carbana. Limitations exlusions may apply S here sevay return policy, cararbana d This is a paid message from Go FunMe Meet Huan Naoa. When a son was hospitalized for a viral infection, Huan started a Gofund mee to pay for medical expenses. It was five k to pay the bill for my son and I needed only twenty two hours. It was amazing. People really trust on Gofund me. How did Huan raise five thousand dollars in less than a day He posted a short video on GoFunMe, telling his story in thirty seconds thirty seconds, be specific, be quick and tell what are you going to be using the funds for? I was nervous to do it because it doesn't feel okay to ask money, but you shouldn't be nervous. Sometimes you just have to do it and see the results. We were able to save my son's life. Thanks to Go found me that we still have my son with us Start your goofund Me today at goofundme. com That's gofundme. com. o Fundme. com This message reflects one person's experience Do you feel that countries around the world have some kind of treaty with the USA that Craft will be handed over to the USA if they have something. because I heard something like that happened with Brazil Well That's a very interesting question And so the CIA has a department which is involved in a number of processes. One is to deposit people or things in hostile territories The other is to collect things or people from hostile territories And that department has been used to recover craft from abroad. Now that's happened. We know in I think you're referring to the case of Vrgina in Brazil That's where a craft landed beings were seen not just by people in the town But Police officers and fire brigades officers who went to detain one of them that was seen In the vicinity of the town, one of them died very quickly from a very infectious to disease. The other was taken to the local hospital in Virgina and the consultant who treated him has gone public I think in the last nine months, by saying that he visited him and his impressions of meeting very briefly this creature who was extremely intelligent who was exuded an attitude, an atmosphere of great peace, knew exactly where he was and was calm And that interview is quite compelling And if you look up Vargina and you look at the consultant who dealt with the creature, I'm sure you'll find it. What then happened was that the Americans sent a plane to Campinas and the craft and the creature or creatures were recovered and taken back. Now the same thing has happened in Peru There is a story of a Jonathan Wagant W E Y G A ND T who describes being secondconded there as part of the United States forces as a naval an Air Force observatory station being sent to a crash site. He came across this craft and beings very quickly after spepecial American forces and the Department of Energy arrived He was taken into custody and threatened and the craft and beings were taken out of Peru. Now, whether these things, I imagine both of those were done with the consent of the governments And I think today That's done by agreement or it's probably done by the payment of money There have been cases, I'm told where craft have been taken forcibly or without permission where it's been unable to reach agreement or where it was thought that agreement wouldn't be reached and they've simply gone in with spepecial forces and airlifted the anomalous object out about the technology for these craft, but what about the bodies and particularly survivors? If there are any rumours of survivors of these crashes like living on earth, perhaps, surviving weeks or months. So when David Grush gave evidence to the Congress sworn evidence, he talked about biologics being found in the craft. And those are obviously dead non human life forms He did not talk about or wouldn't talk about any live survivors. There is There's been lots of rumourors that there certainly was at least one live survivor who was kept for a number of years at Los Alamos Before he died, and imparted quite a bit of information about his own planet There's another source and that is Professor Ham Eshed an Israeli astrophysicist who is behind the Israeli space program He wrote a book. which is only in Hebrew which has never been translated into English in which he talks about crashes And in some of those live survivors being recovered Now, I have not been able to make contact with Professor Ashed curiously since he wrote the book. he has refrain from making any public contact about it at all, which is very odd because you think if you've written a book, you do want some publicity so I couldn't contact him. Nobody else has either Except I think he made a very brief appearance. on a Yiguri Gella website recently, that's the Israeli psychic But by and large he and his feellllow author Hannah Yagai have shunned all interviews and publicity Now whether his account is reliable where his information comes from, I don't know. But he certainly speaks about some survivors live survivors in some crashes. Yet interesting he refuses interviews and the fact the book hasn't been translated into English or any other language, it's like there is some kind of downown on it That's what I originally thought. and indeed, I've had the book translated into English Um And it doesn't make sense that you write a book and then you decine to you withdraw in effect from society altogether, as does your fellow journalist But as I say I think despite his respectability and his eminence as a leading figure in the space world We should be cautious because we do not know the origins of that information We don't know whether he obtained it officially and we don't know whether it's his private views. So I think until we know more which we may never do But until we know more, it's wise to treat that evidence with at least some caution Didn't he say that there was a craft found near the Grand Canyon that they thought had been there since two thousand BC? Yes, he did He gave evidence he gave u, um Um Materia in his book about a number of crashes that are not found within the literature And one of those was a craft which was found at Comanche Point. in the Gnd C in Grand Canyon And it had been there for a hundred or I think, even a couple of thousand of years and this is one of these sort archaeological finds that I'm talking about And there is a department within the US. Army that is a specialist in finding Craft which have been in situ undiscovered for hundreds, if not thousands of years both on land And then the naval research people using specialist forces look equally for craft that have been in Situ for very long periods of time. underwater I wanted to move on. I've got so much to talk about. I wanted to ask you about the majestic twelve documents I believe you've studied them. Do you feel that they're genuine or it's like part real, part wrong or it's Misinformation So this, as you know, Sim, is one of the most hotly debated topics within this subject I believe that the vast majority of those documents are real and that they describe Um what the reaction of the army the intelligence individuals and leading politicians were, by that I mean the president, very few politicians, the president Secretary of State James Forrestle, Genal Eizing her and others and leading scientists when they discovered craft that were not of this earth during and in the immediate aftermath of World War II. I think it was an extreme shock I think they had come out of a very serious war which threatened the survival of humanity and to be faced with what appeared to be interplanetary craft when they did not know what the agenda was of those craft, when They appear to be coming in reasonable numbers and remember that we're Large numbers over Washington in july nineteen fifty two. as well as craft being sightited all over the United States and elsew around the world in the late forties and fifties. with airplanes, military craft being brought down if they went into the vicinity of these crafts, a lot of casualties I think majestic describes the organization which was set up by President Truman in september nineteen forty seven with Dr. Vanavar Bush and Mr. James Forrestle, the firstirst Secretary of State. And that was to establish a secret organization was limited to a number of intelligence officers senior military figures and some scientists And to keep this under wraps And all of this was to be under the authority of the president himself. Now we know with the establishment of the CIA in nineteen forty seven other agencies that that Unfortunately did not remain the case. and the CIA and other agencies have taken control of this and have taken it completely outside the purview elected officials and Congress are running these programmes with private defence contractors under what are called, as I mentioned before, spepecial acccess project. But the majestic documents are fascinating because they describe in detail policy, reactions and personnel of those involved. and I've checked them against Contemporary Daris not just the presidents just James Forrestell's or General Eisenhower's The diaries, for example, of one of the first heads of the atomic Energy Commission David Lillental, All the meetings in there that are described are in those diaries And not only that, but the people that have had custody of the documents that as a father and son, Robert and Ryan would, Robert is now dead have had them examined Others have examined the typography, the layout the content and they all conform documents of that period So my conclusion is that this is not some counter intelligence exercise. There's far too many documents Many of them have got no counter intelligence purpose at all So I don't believe they were created to deflect the Russians. I believe Most of them are an accurate historical account of how America dealt with this extraordinary phenomenon that was presented to them at a time of crisis principally in the late nineteen forties And how many pages are there? Well, the woods have put a lot of them online and they're not all online, but they probably run I mean, they've been leaked by about three or four different counter intelligence officers over the years There's probably over a thousand documents, too many to have been artificially created and they all have legitimate Um contents which which are Extraordinary and I've discovered two new ones which are in the book which are very important I which have never been found before two new maestic documents and I talk about them at length in the book Are there any interesting pictures amongst them Yes, Now I've found one a number of pictures. One I have to say I'm not sure of the provenance of, so I'm not going to push it too hard. It's of a saucer and some chairs Now I the photograph definitely is originates from the nineteen forties fifties But I can't trace its provenance to a sucer in let's say the activity of an American facility. So I'm going to leave that aside for the moment There are documents, photographs of people, scientists who were involved in Majestic twelve, which you've got MJ twelve on the back which came with some of these documents And I've no doubt at all that those scientists who were originally what were called operation paperclip scientists Scientists brought over Germany, Hungary and elsewhere to work on the atomic bomb development Went over to Majestic twelve and worked on the reverse engineering of these craft Now amongst them I'll only mentioned too was John von Neumann N EU MAW N and Edward Teller. And there is corroboration for both of those men Working for Majestic twelve other people who were involved and admit they were involved in the programs at the time And I've no doubt that they were principally involved in this scientific work of Majestic twelve. There's a reason Chevy T trucks are known for their dependability, that's because they show up no matter the weather, push forward, no matter the terrain, and deliver. That's why Chevrolet has earned more dependability awards for trucks than any other brand in twenty twenty five, according to JD Power. because in every Chevy truck, like every Chevy driver Dependability comes standard. Visit Chevy d. com to learn more. Chevlet received the highest total number of awards among all trucks in the JDPower twenty five US vehicle dependability study Awardard based on twenty two model, newer models may be shown visit JDpowerot com sllash awards for more details. Chevrolet, togetherether, let's drive I wanted to ask you about the spepecial operations manual, Eraterrestrial Entities and Technology. What do we gain from that? What's interesting there Well, that is a fascinating document and it's the one majestic document, which people tend to know about, but they forget that there are hundreds of others This is a manual And you've got to remember, of course, now we're in the days of computers. so there's no print these kind of documents wouldn't be printed. They'd be kept behind very safe locked walls in very closely guarded computer systems But in those days, of course, you had to print documents and distribute them to those who had a right to know and needed to have them to define their work Now this is an operation manual which describes the brief history of Majestic twelve, going back to the crash at Roswell in july nineteen forty seven and the recovery of biologics from that craft and it sets out What the aims and purposes of Majestic twelve were and how they were to discover and Work on the propulsion system on how the bodies were to be taken elsewhere, live beings, if they were recovered would be taken elsewhere. and it sets out in detail how this that the project was to be run with absolute secrecy peopleople were to be detained if they were witnesses without clearances Threats and intimidation were to be used if required I go further and say that people have actually been killed um that and how objects were to be packaged and sent to different secure facilities. what those se where those secure facilities were And in the book, we don't just publish the manual But we published the original manual that was disclosed. and you can actually see this copy bears the Kirtland Air Force Base stamp as well as there being assigned initials for those in a box page showing those who had access to the document So U I I'm Quite sure this is a genuine document againain, the details in the document as to the sites where these No Rad crash crash a remnants wreckage or bodies were to be taken Again, all check out. And I think this is a genuine document, yes Before we move on, I'd just like to ask you, have you ever seen a UFO No, I haven't Theyoughre obviously spoken to many people who have some of whom have had close experiences And it's worth mentioning that sometimes I'm afraid with close experiences of UAPs There are a number of unpleasant effects It could possibly be radiation effects There are even paranormal effects which have occurred to a number of people who have had a close UAP sightings Be I wanted to ask you about the abduction phenomenon, my book on Dduction was published at the end of May and I'm particularly interested in this side of things. what's your view of it Well, I think it's a fascinating subject and justust to remind our listeners Thousands upon thousands of people all over the world different cultures and different ages have described very similar abduction experiences. And those are either being abducted outside, for example, in the roadway I to your car H beings appearing in your bedroom and being abducted from your bedroom. or even your house. during the day or at night and the Descriptions of what happens are very frequent Is I very consistent being taken into a craft, usually being subjected to a number of medical procedures, which often involve the extraction of semen or ov or other tissue samples and then being returned, some people are abducted more than once. In families, there can be abductions going through the generations, so grandparents and parents to children So there was a very famous psychiatrist at Harvard University who I met and knew John Matt who made it his to interesterest having become a very famous Psychiatrist at Harvard to examine the abduction experience He came to it know nothing about UAPs and with a very questioning I. And by the time he had concluded his studies, unfortunately he was knocked down and killed by a motorist But by the time he came to the conclusion of his studies and published a couple of books He was firmly of the view that these were real experiences notot that these were induced, but they were real experiences not that they were some kind of sleep disorder or other disorder and that the people who were having them by and large were not suffering themselves from any mental disorder and that we were faced with having to rethink. power concept of reality and consciousness And he raised some very fundamental questions which now need to be answered and studied. and I hope academia, can if this subject loses and I think it is beginning to lose a lot of stigma which has been deliberately planted around it. I hope People will carry on his research so that we can further amongst other things, these abduction phenomena Be there's this this idea, isn't it? I think Jacques Valeet put this sort of thing forward of these beings being interdimensional or coming from another reality or something to do with consciousness. 've been here for thousands of years and just being interpreted in different ways depending on how that time period sees what they see Yes. And you can go back to oh my goodness, you could go back if you want to do to the Bible to the children of Israel being followed by a pillar of fire at night and pillar of cloud by day So Ezekiel going up to the skies in a burning shield. I could go back to medieval monks describing burning shields in the sky I've got a pamphlet I bought from auction in the seventeenth century of citizens of Newmark in Cambridge encountering bizarre things in the sky which they thought were spears or swords and beings coming down and you can go obviously on to fairies, goblins, all kinds of things And you may well be right that we have constantly been liiving with non human intelligences of different orders, and describing them according to the concepts that we understood and the language that we had of the timimes And today you might replace goblins and fars, I suppose with occupants of flying saourucers U or other aliens U But yeah, I mean, this comes back to the theory of What is their source? Congress, when they were legislating to try and create a bill forcing disclosure by the government of UAP documents had to define on human intelligence and they had a real problem. Because as you say, Sim, it could cover interdimensional beings could cover extraterrestrial beings of this physicality, but who've got mechanisms which allow them to distort time and space, which we don't know about cover beings coming through portals It could cover Even a life form that we don't really know, which may coexist here such as some kind of universal interactive consciousness which interacts with our own consous, individual consciences We just don't know And the real problem is that this phenomenon needs If you're trying to understand it We may just not have the equipment or the science or their concepts particularly our concepts of time and space, reality and consciousness properly interpret it. Another thing with the abductions is the hybrids. And that seems to be a major part of the agenda because So many of the abductees report, you know, that they're being like harvested for Berm and eggs so What's your idea on hybrids? What's the agenda? Yes, I actually would also tend to link that with another phenomenon which has been known as cattle mutilation And that' again occurred all over the world where cattle, not just cows, but a variety of animals. have been found in areas where there has been UAP activity And there's been very advanced surgical procedures to remove their reproductive organs eyes et, etcera No blood and scavengers won't go near these carcasses. So it's basically just very selective organs that have been very skillfull be removed as if by some laser technique And if you were to combine cattle mutilation with the experiences of human abductees Then I do think that there is something here that involves possibly As you say Um reproductive experimentation or hybridization Now in my book, not for disisclosure. do refer to A CIA officer. who recounts Um, Term He attended a lecture by a CIA officer for other officers and trusted scientists where this officer talked quite openly within the confines of this lecture. about how DNA had been taken from some of the biologics which had been disiscovered in the nineteen forties and compared when genome sequencing was possible much later on with DNA taken from humans And it was found that alien DNA was present in our DNA. Now if that's right, then clearly our development has been the subject of some interaction at some point And this same officer was talking about hybridization programs which the CIA understood were in existence and that they were actively trying to track and monitor such programmes which presumably were under the authority or control of on human intelligences. But this was all in the context of a CIA lecture And again, I don't know how far they've got with that work that they're doing. Be there's rumourors of what they call My lab. isn't there? the military abductions, which sometimes happen when somebody's been brought back. Yes So there are rumors that u We have reverse engineered some craft to a certain degree of advanced capability. And so that instead of UAPs, we've got reproduced craft which have got certain anti gravity abilities and that people have been abducted by Um spepecial forces Certainly in the United States and have been taken withith or without their consent, I don't know for experimental programes which are being secretly conducted in the US, yes I'd like to get ont to something else. People are getting a good flavor of the book, but there's so much detail in there. they'd have to read it to Re find out about all this stuff I wanted to ask about the royal family and particularly Prince Philip. did he have a great interest in her Yes, he had a very great interest in it I began, Simon my researchers into this subject back in the ninet early nineteen seventies And I was on the board of an international UFO magazine, which in fact was I was on the board there were very distinguished editors and correspondents Some of them Jack Vleet was a correspondent for What does the name one? And one of my rows was to deliver each copy which was printed every two months. to Prince Philip's Equery And Prince Philip had a very keen interest in this subject as did Lord the late Lord Mount Bat and Prince Philip's Equirary Anyay he's writt he has written a book called Be Sounds from Another Room his equiry wrote this book And he would never have written the book without Prince Philip's cooperation and Prince Philip allowed him to interview some key witnesses when they learned of them, actually at Buckingham Palace and to make a report. which obviously prince Philip with then read And this Equery also had a mysterious meeting Um Believe or not, in a Chelsea flat with an individual, it was set up by a member, a fellow military officer to meet a lady in Chelsea who wanted to introduce him to someone. it was all rather mysterious. This man turned out Um to be a called it Mr. Janus someomebody who sat down with the Equery who was able to read his mind and was able to confirm he knew a lot of very confidential and secret information and never on to discuss with YetQery a lot about flying saucers about an advanced civilization that was so advanced that it wanted to create life itself on another planet And the whole process of life in the universe And the object of this conversation was that he wanted Sir Peter to effect an introduction to Prince Philip. who was regarded as somebody who was very well versed in the ecology of the planet and who was somebody they felt would be sympathetic to the aims of the non human intelligenceces who behind this particular enterprise. Anyway, S Peter went away. Sir Peter Hawesley is his name H O R S L E Y He went away, he was quite disturbed by the meeting. He resolved not to make that introduction. But when he went back to the flat, Mrs. Markham, who was the lady he'd met and whose flat it was was not there, disappeared and he was never able in any event to contact Mr. Jonas again, not that he had wanted to do so. And is there also a thing somebody else who was quite high up? in the UK was it Sir Henry Tizard and he had communications with Forestal in the USA Yes That is I've discovered in the book, and I think it's a very key piece of new evidence U you were talking about majestic twelve And we are saying, well, is it real? isn't it? There's been a big debate. and I firmly come on down on the side that it was a very real organization And what I've discovered is that within one week profess of President Truman's directive to Bush and Forrestle to establish MJ twelve and to report directly to him James Forrestle held a lunch for a Sir Henry Tizard Now's Henry Tizard with the chief science scientific officer. Sorry, the chief scientific officer the Ministry of Defence here in London who was known to James Forrestle because of work they'd done together during World War II And Forrestle came back to the UK and He set up a secret flying working saucer party the Ministry of Defense and The introduction to that by somebody else to that report when it was published said following the lead of the Americans It is imperative to maintain secrecy about this subject Only one copy of this report is being printed and that's for Sir Henry So It's almost inevitable that Fororestal told him about Roswell and about Majestic twelve Tizard came back. and Tizard set up our own investigation here within the Ministry of Defence. Not only that, But the within same time period about a week or two after meeting Tizard Forestle met with some very senior RAF officers So at and youve got to remember he's seecretary of state. a very busy man but had a number of meetings with senior RAF officers at the Pentagon you have to assume that that was all part of a plan. which was in connection with what they'd discovered about the alien presence and what the British should now be doing Well another fascinating chapter is called What the Octogenarians Revealed So before we talk about the people d that, what is this about So this is just a a loose pattern which I think is true probably of human nature, and which is certainly true in this subject And that is that people who've been swarned to secrecy usually Cform with that oath because They First of all, it might be either a matter of honor or they don't want to prejudice their pensions or they don't want to be put at risk of personal harm to themselves or their family Once they get into a late age let's say they become oxygenarians, then I think they want to leave behind. they don't want to take these secrets with them. They regard them as being of such important to humanity They then either write a book or tell their family about it And so in this chapter I've looked at three or more people who have done precisely that One of them is a man called Lieutenant Philip Corsso Another is high meesured. Another is a woman called June Crane Um and these are just examples. I think there's another. All of them have written down or given interviews to others about these secrets concerning UAPs and their involvement with them, which they have kept to their bosoms throughout their life. But now as they're about to depart this world They want to tell others their family and others about what they are So could we talk about June Crane? because she's like an employee at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, but she was in a good position to Here all this information Yes, you was And she was at rightight Aison Air Force base. From nineteen forty seven until the early fifties and all her Um employment and clearance details those documents which she kept she produced, there's no doubt at all as to the authenticity of her role and who she saidays she was And she became so incensed when the Air Force published a report about Roswell Roswell became a matter I was only discovered in the late nineteen seventies And that wass to say over thirty years after the crash. and then material started to be written about Roswell, there came to be quite a large public furor about it And the Air Force published a report trying to The fire And what they said was Well,, in fact, this was all part of project moogul which was a project by which we launched quite advanced weather balloons which were launched to detect any atomic detonation by the Soviets And we'd have these measurements in high levels of space alternatively Um U We should tell you As part of Project Mogul