All the Hacks: Money, Points & Life
Chris Hutchins
Why Net Fulfillment Beats Net Worth with Bill Perkins
SummaryIn this episode, the host welcomes Bill Perkins, author of Die with Zero, to discuss a counterintuitive approach to personal finance that prioritizes net fulfillment over net worth. The conversation centers on the idea that life is the sum of one's experiences and choices, and that money is merely a tool to enable those experiences rather than the goal itself. The discussion explores the concept of time-bucketing, which encourages people to plan their lives in tranches, recognizing that the ability to enjoy certain activities declines with age, health, and energy levels. Perkins argues that delaying gratification often results in missing out on experiences that can never be fully enjoyed later in life. Furthermore, they examine the idea of memory dividends—the enduring value and joy derived from reflecting on past experiences. By consciously choosing when to allocate time and resources, individuals can ensure they are not simply accumulating wealth on autopilot, but are instead investing in a life full of meaningful moments. The episode serves as a powerful reminder to evaluate what we are saving for and to ensure we are living for the present while we still can.
Updated Jul 1, 2026
About This Episode
#285: Bill Perkins joins Chris to unpack what dying with zero really means in practice. They discuss why net fulfillment matters at every stage of life, which experiences are worth prioritizing now, how to bank memory dividends, the questions to ask yourself before spending (or saving), and how to solve for maximum fulfillment.
Bill Perkins is a hedge fund manager, energy trader, and author of the international bestseller Die With Zero.
Link to Full Show Notes: https://chrishutchins.com/bill-perkins-net-fulfillment-beats-net-worth
Partner Deals
Haven: Skip the waitlist for the best sauna.
Gelt: Skip the waitlist on personalized tax guidance to maximize your wealth
Copilot Money: Free 2 months access to my favorite personal finance app with code HACKS2
DeleteMe: 20% off removing your personal info from the web
Mercury: Help your business grow with simplified finances
For all the deals, discounts and promo codes from our partners, go to: chrishutchins.com/deals
Resources Mentioned
Bill Perkins: Instagram | Website | X
Full-body MRI Scan: Prenuvo
ATH Podcast
- #40: The Power of Regret, Motivation and Good Timing with Daniel Pink
- Newsletter
- AMA: Submit Questions
- Leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Spotify
- Email for questions, hacks, deals, and feedback: podcast@chrishutchins.com
Full Show Notes
(00:00) Introduction
(01:27) Who Die With Zero Is Really For
(02:32) Defining Net Fulfillment
(03:14) Common Misconceptions People Have About Retirement and Spending
(05:07) Why Money's Value Declines as You Age
(09:12) Time Bucketing vs. a Bucket List
(14:06) Memory Dividends: How Experiences Pay You Back for Life
(20:47) Tactics to Make Your Memories Pay Bigger Dividends
(22:12) Why You Should Start Investing in Experiences Now
(25:39) How Far in Advance Should You Bucket Your Experiences?
(27:27) The Experiences to Prioritize in Your 20s and 30s
(30:35) Chris' Backpacking Trip
(31:33) How to Avoid Getting Stuck on the Hamster Wheel
(33:58) The Five Whys: Questioning the Outcome You Actually Want
(35:54) Bill's Advice to People Who Are Contemplating a Career Upgrade
(39:40) What to Do If You're Afraid of Running Out of Money
(40:39) Attach Your Efforts to Your Goals
(42:52) Letting Go of the Fear of Failure
(44:51) Reframe Your Mindset to Minimize Future Regret
(47:53) Do the Bold Thing
(49:00) What an Hour of Your Time Is Really Worth
(52:06) Should You Be Spending More or Less Money?
(56:47) How Much You Need and When You Can Stop Saving
(01:01:53) Why Doing It Now Also Benefits Your Future Self
(01:02:32) The Coke vs. Pepsi Experiment and How Memory Works
(01:03:46) Deconstructing What You Love About Your Job
(01:05:57) What Bill Loves and Hates About the FIRE Movement
(01:10:58) Get Past Your Habits and Ego to Unlock More Choices
(01:12:44) Why Chris Set a Lower Net Worth Goal
(01:16:08) Solving for Maximum Fulfillment
(01:20:47) The Health Habits That Unlock Everything Else
(01:24:24) Why Diagnostics Are Key to Catching Disease Early
(01:27:58) Where to Find Bill Perkins
Connect with Chris
Listen to All the Hacks: Money, Points & Life in Podtastic
For listeners, not advertisers
Related Podcasts
All podcast names and trademarks are the property of their respective owners. Podcasts listed on Podtastic are publicly available shows distributed via RSS. Podtastic does not endorse nor is endorsed by any podcast or podcast creator listed in this directory.