Experiential Learning and Future Legacy

Want to explore even more history Sign up to History Hit, where you will discover history from around the world from the American Revolution to prehistoric Scotland There is plenty to discover With your subscription, you'll unlock hundredundreds of hours of exclusive documentaries with a brand new release every week exxploring everything from the ancient world to World War II Just visit historyhit d. com slash subscribe bring the past alive seeking. Pushing. Creating Learning, discovering At RAMcoO, we believe in harnessing the power of data to push the limits of what's possible That's how we deliver reliable energy to millions across the world. A RAamcoO, an integrated energy and chemicals company And leararn more about us at arramco. com The ship is nearly the length of a football field, two hundred and ninety five feet overall. Her main mast rises one hundred and fifty feet above the deck, roughly the height of a fourteen story building Her beam, the width of the vessel at its broadest point is thirty nine feet across, wider than most streets in Manhattan Everywhere you look, there are lines, cables, spars, sails, a complexity of design that for the non sailor, feels almost impossible to grasp There are many great sailing ships in the world and all inspire awe But the Eagle has a unique story to tell because this magnificent icon of the United States Coast Guard was originally commissioned, designed, and built by Nazi Germany Hello listeners. I'm Don Weildbman and this is American History Hip As I speak, we are in the midst of our nation's semi quintentennial celebration. And right around the corner comes july fourth and sail fourth two hundred fifty, the great tall ships parade in New York Harbor Leading that procession will be the Eagle, the majestic training vessel of the United States Coast Guard Today, we are joined by Will Soffrin, author of the brand new book, USCG Cutter Eagle legacy of the Coast Guard's flagship. Soffin himself is a professional sailor, master shhipwright, teacher from MIT, and a nautical artist and writer. So Let's cast off the lines and get underway Will Soffin, Wlcome to American History.et I am quite excited to speak with you today about your book and this great ship Hey, Don, thanks for having me. I too am very excited to be here talking with you We're too excited fellows. I should say up frront, Will and I will be aboard the Eagle in the week running up to july fourth, which maybe when this is broadcast, when this is airing might be that week We are guests of the capaptain sailing right up to the Eastern Seaboard and right into New York Harbor. I can't believe my good forune will Me too. Honestly, it's like going to be having backstage passes to Woodstock More on that later. Well, the story of the USCG Eagle is remarkable, not only for her extraordinary origins and the unlikely journey that carried her across the Atlantic to become the flagship of the U.S Coast Guard But it even goes back a little bit further What are the earliest origins of this ship? Much a surprise to many people. The origin of the ship was that she was originally built to groom Hitler's youth for the Naz' Krieg Marine After the Treaty of Versailles, following World War I, Germany was limited and the sort of vessels that they could build. And there was still an effort to train seamen and sailors and sail training was a viable avenue for that So The country had a sail training ship, but unfortunately that ship sank in a bad sort of situation. and there was this big national outcry. There was even a coin drive to raise money to come up with a new solution. And what happened was they developed a new class of steel huled sail training ships They were named after the first one was called the Gork Fk, which became the namesake for the class. And let's call it as say development class where They designed one, built one and really liked it and then they learned from that and they improved upon the design. So Eagle, her original name was Horse Wessel And she was named after a man named Korswato, who wrote the words to the Nazi national anthem It was seen as an opportunity to really politicize the ship This man Horse Wessel had been killed and framed as a marker, even though his death had nothing to do sort of with the Nazi caause, it was a bit of a jealousy matter with a He had been murdered in nineteen thirty, right? Yeah Wh's part of Gebel's propaganda many avenues of propaganda. Horse vessel was an SA agent, is that right Yes. Yeah. And in the storytelling throughout the nineteen thirties before we get to World War two Gobbels was all about figuring out these big stories that would vaunt the Nazis. and he was one of them This project to build these ships. I mean, there's up to five ships that they're building, right That's correct. Yeah, there's up to five ships. The last one did not get leted because the war As time went along, we have war escalation. and even I think a really interesting tibbit here is You've got the Gork Fok being built before they can build warships Yet the horse vessel was the whole number free the battleship Bismar So you can see how much change time betweenween those the first and this one. I hadn't known that treaty of Versailles aspect of this, but that's so interesting because You know, here they're telling the great story of the Nazis and they have this whole momentum going on after ever since Hitler's kind of taken over But they still are under those restrictions, right And so in order to sort of get some equivalent of building battleships, they're building training vessels for the Navy Yeah, even so much so that the engine room in the horse vessel, the original engine room was built to look exactly like a U boat submarine engine ro so that they could take seamen who had been on the horse vessel a sailing ship And they could they could go right into a U boat And it would be identical. They know exactly where all the equipment and everything was. Oh interesting. The launch ceremony is attended by Adolf Hitler The ship that we're talking about today, the horse vessel is commissioned on september seventeenth, nineteen thirty six It's intended to embody the strength and Determination of the thirird Reich, basically. They were called five sisters, and this is important for the end of our conversation that there are these sister ships that do get built out of that five, right That is correct. There are sisterships, but the last one was not completed And the hul ended up being scuttled Following World War two At some point Germany decided to build one more which was named the Gork Fk two, and they were able to use the inggging for the original fifth one. had been constructed, but not used. So that was how they rigged the last ship that was built for the class So was it actually used in the training? I mean, it could have been sailing for several years even before World War two starts Yeah, Horse vessel was used extensively for training you know, going back to sort of her being used as a propaganda tool. You have the name, the Horse Vessel and she traveled the world In my new book, I found this wonderful, fascinating aerial picture of her in the Caribbean taken by an American spy plane where you're looking down on her where she's got canvas set up. But the idea was to not only have these vessels train the German sailors, but also to serve as a as a symbol and a tool of right pride and a microphone. for the mission. So it was intentional for these vessels to sail far and wide. And naturally You see ship like this and there's also a let's say let's call it a great curbside appeal R Exactly. which Americans will understand after they see our tall ships parade. I mean, they these ships have impact and the Nazis were nothing if not impacting people with their story in those days. So that figures out in the war, of course, it's not part of things is a sailing ship. so I'm sure they anyyone who was going to be a sailor on there gets quickly shifted off ono ono battleships and so forth. But near the end of april nineteen forty five, I mean, we're at the end of the war, The Nazi regime ordered the horse vessel to move westward to an undisclosed destination. This is about we're going to find our way to finding this vessel in the ruins of World War two There had been a forty member crew full of ten Croatian soldiers an unknown number of refugees, including women and children. I mean, this is a ragtag bunch that were sent with that vessel. When Hitler's death is announced on may first, the next day the bark anchored in Glauxburg. takeake me through the steps in which it is found by a man named Gordon McCowellan So what happens is and I think an important little hindsight note here is Hilller had ordered that every Nazi vessel be rigged with a charge so that should there be risk of capture This charge would be set off and the vessel would be scuttled And I think there's an important distinction here, which is You know, you could say there's Nazis and there's Germans. And certainly on board, you had both. You had Nazis and Germans. And the captain of the ship really loved the ship. So He had apparently sort of tak and tally of Who were the Nazis and who were the Germans and at one point had himself surrounded by the Germans so he could disarm this charge and prevent the ship from being scuttled Now After the ship was taken, this is why this is one of the reasons why we saw the ship The ship was sent to onene port and then ended up in Bremmerhaven eventually, which was this veryer important strategic ort City in Germany. And at this, you know, at the end of the war, it's in rubble. It's in ruins. I mean, think of saving private Ryan when you look at those scenes where they get rescue Matt Damon And the American first American commander, Gordon McGowan had received a report in America about this ship that was a survey testing to the condition, which gave the U. S. confidence to say, is this is a vessel that we would love to have And he arrives in Germany with a certain expectation. And as soon as he sets his eyes on this ship, he realizes This the reality is very different than would he anticipated riding to him. he seized the horse whistle Heel to the side. in a riverbank tied up to a makeshift dock. and not only that, the former crew, the German Nazi crew, is still living on the ship It's an amazing photograph, which you have in your book where you have this, you know, still noble looking vessel But the backdrop of it is every destroyed building you've ever seen in every know picture of destroyed Germany There's this ship looking like there's still hope in the world. As I say, Hitler is announced dead on may first. In the days afterwards, we're talking about what kind of deal lands this ship with the Nazis. This is a war reparations issue, right That's correct. Yeah. So after the war ends The spoils go to the victors and The Coast Guard during the war had the use of a dana ship called the Danmark And they had a wonderful experience, sail training the Coast Guard cadets on this large ship. And that was really the motivating factor behind Postgard vying to take possession of this ship. So when we have the spoils of war there's a list of what's available and the Coast Guard sees this and puts their name in for it And funny enough, you've got The names of a bunch of vessels you know, tallied and you get numbers put on pieces of paper and these numbers get put in a hat and these military leaders take their turns drawing these numbers out of a hat for the vessels that they want. And we actually we don't get the horse vessel But There's we've got interest. so veryery quickly after the numbers get drawn. the American secretly kind of to the side has a bit of a private conversation with the Russian And there's an exchange of numbers, and that is how the horse vessel came to be ours. Interesting. It's about divvying up the naval assets of the Kriegs Marine, the Nazi Navy And u in that deal making, which you've got another picture of, these guys right around a circular table figuring out what's going What's going where priority for the Coast Guard is to get a handle on this on a ship they can use in place of this Danish vessel. That's bas That's how it boils down, right Yes, perfectly. Interesting. Let's take a short break when we come back. We'll talk about how this German vessel officially becomes commissioned as a U.S Coast Guard ship Sking Creating Learning, discovery. a RamMco. We believe in harnessing the power of data to push the limits of what's possible That's how we deliver reliable energy to millions across the world Aramco, an integrated energy and chemicals company. Learn more about us at arramco. com As the saying goes, if these walls could talk. And on the Bwixt the Sheets podcast, we make it our business to discover what happened behind closed doors, and even more importantly, in the bedrooms of people all throughout history kings, queens, mistresses, servants, and everyone in between. We also get up close and personal with medieval aphrodisiacs, lethal Victorian makeup routines and look at the scandalous lives of beloved children's authors. Nothing is off limits In other words, it's the best bits of history with me, Dr. Kate Lister. Listen to but twwix the sheets the history of sex scandal and society twice a week, every week, wherever it is that you get your podcasts, brought to you by the award winning network, History Hit. author Will Sofferin talking about his new book, The US CG Cutter Eagle, The leegacy of the Coast Guard's fllagship Well We've got a ship that is being rescued in the in the ruins of Nazi Germany by a U. S Naval commander named Gordon McCowan, and he's got a huge task in front of him which is not at all practical How do you reit a ship in a ruined country that is not there to provision you. I mean, how's he do it? It's a remarkable example of how innovative the Coast Guard is. I mean, heres here's this great example of sort of an individual who's maybe got more than he can handle up frront, but he has a great methodology for how to approach Putting this shit back together And doing such, there was the benefit of having the former German crew on board. Th men knew the ship inside and out They were well versed in what it needed. and he got a lot of cooperation from the former German captain to was right by his side, brought the plans out and He did have a limited number of resources though, unfortunately, manpower wise, you have the war having concluded. so there's a big windown on budgets. There's less need for people. Americans are happy to go home instead of over to war torn Germany. And through Coordinating efforts with other Ally officers, especially the British Commander McGowan He finds little snippets of advice. There are moments where he hears about sort of maybe a hidden supply bunker and goes on a bit of these kind of wild goose chases and they end up really delivering for him where he finds these underground troves of maritime supplies, sort of everything that he could ever need for this ship fun to read he wrote a book called The Sipper and the Eagle, which was is his memoir of that whole process. And it is really fun. It's like those those World War two movies where you know, some savvy guy knows how he's a cigar chump and supply officer knows there's you know, a secret stash somewhere down in the down on the pier. It's kind of got that flavor But in his case it's also the Germans who are helping him, right? And they find remarkable caches of like unbelievable rope and engines that they've acquisition byy a piece. It's like putting together a puzzle putting this thing back together into some sort of, you know, viable ship that can actually cross the Atlantic because ultimately that's what they're trying to do, right? That's exactly what they're trying to do. I think one of my favorite littleittle tidbits from this was He needed to have a new set of sales made. But the salemakers were very malnourished. There was Mass poverty, there wasn't a lot of food. thingsings were still being rationed And When he learns there's not a lot of progress happening, he kind of on his own Fortive alludes in his book where he noticed that food started disappearing around the officer's mess hall. and fuel for keeping the fires going and all of a sudden, production sort of picked up the sail. Yeah, exactly. There's a very sweet undertone to that account, which is to say, you know, here are two nations that have been a war, but of course the soldiers and sailors who are, you know, fighting those battles aren't necessarily going to carry on that war. And so that's the feeling of like, how are we going to figure out this thing together and make this ship, which is such a symbol of unity at this moment actually work for both crowds of people. He's going to have a mixed crew, isn't he?'s both German and American. Yeah, so as the preparation for the voyage is approaching He learns that he's not going to get the bodies that have been promised to him. and he's very understaffed. This ship needs really between two hundred and two hundred and fifty people to properly man it to sale it. and He doesn't even have fifty God. So he's put in a position where he's trying to figure out what to do and he has this conversation with a British officer who is running this whole mind clearing operation And the officer says, well, I'll tell you what How would I help you out? Why don't you ask the German crew that's still on your ship if they want to They want to sale with you. And what I'll do is I'll pay them under my budget And then when you arrive in America, you can just send them to a POW camp and they'll end up back over here anyway. Yeah At what point do they take off? I mean, how long does this process take The process takes a good amount of time, but N too long in the world of, let's say, maritime preparation. M McGowan Rise, I want to say, I believe it's January. cororrect me if I'm wrong. and he The ship gets underway in June Wow. And so Yeah, quite a short time when you talk about Putting a new engine in the ship All new sales, all new rigging really and stocking all the materials and then preparing the sailors and the crew for this big voyage across the Atlantic. Sure. And this is for the Coast Guard, not the Navy. and that's still a factor in the situation, right Yeah, that's an important factor there too, which is The U. S. Navy is designed to send sailors around the world. That's what they do. That is what they are great at The U. S. Coast Guard, the design of the service is to us more locally. Not that the Coast Guard doesn't have a presence globally. The Coast Guard is capable and has vessels all around the world, but It's more of a coastal service where there's Shorter durations, less distances typically traveled than the US Navy. Right But they're also not getting any help from the Navy, I would imagine You're right. They're not getting much help from the Navy at all I think this goes back to where I was touching on We have this winding down post war effort And the services are taking care of themselves. And that goes back to, you know how clever McGowan was with preparing the ship and then needing to still be clever to find the crew to man the ship. He is one resource of fellow. The voyage is kind of the traditional course down from Europe to Madeira and they probably catch those winds across It takes weeks for them to get over to the United States. Have they renamed the vessel at this point? I can't imagine they're going to bring the horsed vessel into America Yes, there was before the ship departed from Germany, there needed to be a commissioning ceremony. and We even had a Navy admiral who is there presiding over the commissioning of the ship at which point The American flag was wasisted. The ship was renamed Eagle horse vessel. and There's a really powerful moment when that happens because standing on Dck You have the American crew on one side and the German crew on the other side both saluting the ship. And just a real powerful moment leaning into it, you're saying where you've got these men who are sworn enemies Yeah a year prior. And here they are. forced to work together to depend on each other. It was a big story, I'm sure, you know in the papers. This is an incredible thing that's being done especially after what's happened, you know, the last Five years. Why the Eagle? I mean There's always such stories about how many vessels were named something. and there were quite a few eagles before this for obvious reasons Yeah, there were Eagles an important name in Coast Guard history. The Coast Guard has a fascinating history. Originally, it was the revenue cutter service. It was founded by Alexander Hamilton, who was seecretary of the Treasury at the time. And in Federalist paper number twelve, he had outlined this service that would serve as a pillar because at that time There was no US Navy. The Continental Navy had been disbanded post the Revolutionary War and the US Navy would not have been established until seventeen ninety four. So in seventeen ninety you have this service created and they need new vessels. And that's where we have the first Eagle. Oh w. One of the first ten revenue cutters. No kidding. So they're naming it after first Sort of Coast Gu revenue cutter meaning they go around and they collect the revenues, right? Yeah. The idea behind the Revenue Cutter serervice was a permanently armed maritime force that could help collect taxes or tariffs in a sense, from vessels coming over to America because we had this wartime debt that we needed to pay off and the government needed a source of revenue Hence the name, what's fascinating is that there's not actually an official naming of the vessels. So you have revenue marine revenue service. It's not until the eighteen sixties where the revenue cutter service really becomes the solidified name of the service. The interesting coincidence, of course, is that there's an eagle underneath of the bowpread, right on the original Nazi vessel. and that eagle is holding a Nazi symbol, the Swastika in its talons Of course, that's ripped right off of there, but there always has been that eagle underneath. Yeah, that What you see under a bowprit is called the figurehead of a ship And depending on different ships sometimes we've seen women As figureheads, you've seen examples of other animals and it was very poetic O there'd always have been an Eagle figurehead on this ship Yeah And there's actually been a number of versions of the figurehead over the generations of Eagle serervice. Interesting. Well, I said at the top of this broadcast that this is an unusual episode for us because everyone listening to this story will have the chance in very short order to see this actual ship come in on the biggest Marquee event of july fourth. It was an extraordinary payoff here for everybody And that's where you'll get the sense that we're talking about of the sheer awe of this vessel and the others behind it. I mean, there's extxtraordinary. Some of those vessels, I think two of them, right? There's two vessels in this parade that are sister ships of the Eagle. Yes, that is correct. We Eagle still has earlier we were talking about how there were the five sisters that were built and you still have The majority of them actively sailing for foreign navies, and we're very fortunate that two of them are going to come back and participate in our celebration theort. God, it just compresses history, doesn't it It really does. It's remarkable And you'll be out there. you are the figurehead on this one, right We're going to take another break and when we come back, we're going to talk about the use of the eagle as a sailing training vessel What if a marginal gain unlocked greater performance. What if an insight in data change everything at a RAMco Our focus on detail helps us deliver reliable energy to millions across the world. because margins aren't marginal They' where we can truly push the limits of what's possible A RMco. an integrated energy and chemicals company Learn more at arramco. com As the saying goes, if these walls could talk. And on the Bwixt the Sheets podcast, we make it our business to discover what happened behind closed doors and even more importantly, in the bedrooms of people all throughout history. Kings, queens, mistresses, servants, and everyone in between We also get up close and personal with medieval aphrodysisiacs, lethal Victorian makeup routines, and look at the scandalous lives of beloved children's authors. Nothing is off limits In other words, it's the best bits of history with me, Dr. Kate Lister. Listen to but twwix the sheets of the history of sex scandal and society twice a week every week, wherever it is that you get your podcasts, brought to you by the award winning network, History Hit with Will Soren Curious about the day that the USCG, by the way, that stands for United States Coast Guard vessel or Coast Guard Cutter in this case Eagle arrives in the United States weeks across the Atlantic Here comes this ragtag, you know, barely a crew that can that can sail this size of ship They arrive where in New York Harbor, whereere did they come into? It's an amazing story because I mean, you couldn't have anything be sort of more movieiesesque where Th Crew Eagle sails across the Atlantic They stop in Bermuda And they've got three days from Vermuda back to America and twenty four hours out from arrival They encounter a hurricane and not just any hurricane. I mean, a massive hurricane that ends up shredding almost all these new sails on the ship. They're destroyed. They're blown out. But they make it through the storm And they arrive in New York Harbor, but they've got the Germans on them. and There's fear of the Germans jumping ship literally. So the ship eagle has to stay moored or anchored in the harbor and you've got the eye with boats motoring around to make sure nobody jumps off the ship And the next morning Eagle motors up the Hudson to Camp Shanks, which used to be our sort of last stop America when we were sending soldiers over to Europe and it became the last POW camp and the Germans are unloaded there. And then Eagle makes her way from New York ross Long Island and finishes her voyage in New London, Connecticut where the Coast Guard Academy is and that's a very sort of quiet arrival And thus begins its service, which is we're talking about eighty years ago, this begins, which is extraordinary in itself. But many people might be confused. What is the point of using such a vessel in training officers for what is today a modern, you know, these are There are no sailing vessels in the in the Coast Guard as far as I know I mean you're going out in search and rescue You're doing all kinds of patrols. These are all diesel driven Cips, right Yeah. I think The reason why Eagle still is in place and why she is used is she is the ideal platform. Bar. the role that she plays for the Coast Guard Coast Guard has always believed in experiential learning. as a key component to preparing their cadets who will become the officers and the leader of the service And so you'll have the cadets during much of the school year wororking through what they're learning at the Coast Guard Academy. and then strategically at certain points of their academic career, they go out on eagle or other vessels But Eagle' really important because I'd like to use the word You know, sort of let's use the analogy, analog and digital All right? Yeah Eagle is the analog version of a maritime vessel today. whereas you could take a modern cutter and let's call that the digital version of the digital version Absolutely is much more advanced, faster can do all these things, but it's very broken up. You've got an engine room You've got the bridge. peopleeople can't see what the others are doing. Whereas on Eagle Everything operates a little bit slower, but there's a lot of visibility And it requires a lot of direct coordination And that's what's really important about Eagle is It creates the opportunity for the cadets to Practice leadership in different levels state and evenven though it's not a wartime vessel Eagle has a very unique mission and that she is the only Coast Guard ship that is dedicated to training services future leaders, but not only that, also representing America at home Broad These cadets are tasked immediately with representing our nation Eagle spends much of her time. this year she'll be on the Eastern Saboard, but last year she was on the Pacific coast. Likely probably next year, she'll go over to Europe When she travels, she's representing aination and those cadets practicing in a real world scenario what it's like and how they need to act when representing our nation. Well, most of those ships in the parade, the big ones are equivalents elsewhere. You know, mostost countries use these ships either as ambassadors or as training vessels for their navies, which was interesting to me because when I went out there in preparation for this conversation and the job, I met with Chris Insley, the current captain of the Eagle And I asked that dumb question of like, hey, you know, why does this work out so well for you guys? and how come and blahah? And he mentions this. It was so interesting to me Most navies in the world are not blluewater Navies. He says to me, a guy who knows nothing about this, and I said, Oh, I never thought of that. And he says, mostost navies are Coast guuards. And so we are doing, you know the job of most Navies in the world That's such an interesting twist on the thing, I think Yeah, I think that's You know, I had not heard that, but I It makes all the sense in the world when you hear it put that way And the ship, oh my goodness, you know, first of all, anyone who hasn't had that experience of being on a tall ship or even a museum ship that's in a port ought to do it just to get the sense of this thing. It's an enormous world unto itself So big and so grand But you also see how much it takes to run it, how much it takes to just operate this ship. And the so many duties that have to work in sync So that's a laboratory of teamwork right there And if you're training up the next generation of leadership within the Coast Guard, it's the perfect way to do that So every year they are putting out how many cadets are on that in the average year? hundred and fifty, I think, right? I think it might be difficult to pinpoint the number of how many cadets going on. Let me break down what happens because what you have is You have multiple generations of cadets going out on Eagle each year What you'll have predominantly, I think where she is most important is There is third class Cadet summer, which is essentially you have just completed your freshman year at the accademy. you are going to be a sophomore, which means you've gone from fourth class to third class cadet. And there's a This is a very important point of the academic process at the Coast Guard Academy is for the third class cadets. Now the third class cadets have all been on Eagle previous summer as a fourth class cadet or a swab And they did that at the end of boot camp. You could say sort of swab summer, their indoctrination into the service. and they're on there for I think one to two weeks just as a sort of a reprieve from life at the Academy and boot camp. In addition You'll have some of the cadets will come back as first class cadets. At that point after after, you know, sophomore year or second class cadet year the cadets will likely go on other vessels There's also going to be other officers coming on board for training and even other services coming on board and using e as a platform for training. It's an incredible thing to be on board. neverever mind the teamwork bonding that goes on for these officers But it's a ninety year old vessel, will How long will this keep on sailing? I'll tell you my feeling is when you're there, it feels like it's going to go forever. I mean, it's incredible. It's a steel huled ship for one thing been refitted fairly recently, right? Yeah, the ship has gone undergone a recent service life extension program and there's been a lot of thought put into what to do to ensure that Eagle can still continue to serve And I'd say this is probably always a conversational point There are other service academies that have developed modern training vessels that