FIFA Finances and Future Growth

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Good bad billionaire Listen wherever you get your BVC podcasts This will be a once in a lifetime opportunity to showcase the greatness of American world class athletic competition as we celebrate our nation's two hundred fiftieth year. The World Cup will also be an incredibly significant economic opportunity for countless American workers and businesses. It's expected to drive more than thirirty billion dollars, Johnny. I don't know about that That sounds like a lot of money.ong. Are you sure? one hundred hundred percent. How much does the country get out of that? thirty billion. twenty per a percentage of the grocery. That's for negotiation.. And's going ag creade nearly twenty A once in a lifetime opportunity. That was of course, U. S. President Donald Trump talking to Gianni Ifantino, the head of FIFA in the Oval Office last year about the upcoming World Cup, which is almost here And in this upcoming episode, we're going to be talking about money. How much does it cost to buy a ticket? Spoiler alert a lot. Where does all that thirty billion come from and then go? And a few other of the financial aspects of the twenty twenty six World Cup. And you'll be hearing that in this third episode, which is a co production like the World Cup itself, between three BBC podcasts. Welcome to Americast. Americast. Americast from BBC News. It's going to be the world's largest sporting event ever hosted. But when the time is up They'll have to go home. FIFA is making eleven billion dollars off of this World Cup. If somebody buys a ticket for the final two minute, I would personally bring in a hot dog and the Coke. It is such a unifying event It is also about winning. I may put on shorts, I look extremely good on shorts enjoy the play Hello, it's Adam from Newscast And it is Mariana in the Americast Worldwide headquarters, our current C lab Studio. And it's Anthony in the American headquarters of Americast here at the BBC Bureau in Washington, DC Fotball Daily. This is John Murray at my desk shortly before I head to Mexico and the World Cup. And it's Fisel, the economics editor here in the Newcast studio in London. And Fisal, you've got your tablet out in front of you. Is that because you're currently on the FIFA World Cup Dynamic Pricing website? Well I have been. And the dynamic on the dynamic prricing website is that there's a twenty three minute wait right now. So not to get up. Well, it may well be that once you get beyond that, there this is something that I think anybody who has been sniffing around for tickets has witnessed. there has been a sort of dribble of tickets on at certain times day onto the website, which people I think many people are kind of jumping on there thinking, so it's a full time job keeping track of when the tickets even go on sale I mean, there are like Reddit forums, there are like AI built. Yeah It was likeackers ticket chases trying to trying to find and the game is you can get tickets for almost anything actually officially. getting cheaper tickets, that's the game and that is a very difficult task and use the phrase dynamic pricing and it's something that's It certainly wasnt hasn't ever been around for any World Cup. It's something that's come from the world of concerts. It became very famous with the Oasis gigs here in the UK a couple of years last year. Um and it's very common in In American concerts in big What is the dynamism of the dynamic prices? Well, it's demand when demand goes up, the price goes up So You've seen that at each stage of the ticket offer everyvery time there's been an offer of tickets It has adjusted sometometimes by the day, sometimes by the week and you're seeing it to some degree as well right now in the last minute phase there's also with some, you know, huge Diffnce should you go through some of the Yeah let's get your virtual blackboard out and chal up some prices for us. Well, and it's also evolved during the period of sales, the multiple periods of sales that we've had. So for a Cat three Ticks for the final. I mean, obviously that's like a big showcase and it's going to be expensive, you'd expect, but not quite sort of three grand starting price expensive and that was the price in October. but it's squeezed up and up and up as different. And it's now up to nearly six grand and categies dollars of US dollars. And that's the lowest. And like you may be right up in the gods for five thousand seven hundred and eighty five hard earn dollars. And that's for cap three. to give you some context The last World Cup final in Qatar sixix hundred and three So a tenth of the price You lots of complaints about that price at the time. This is extraordinary. Now that's for a Cat three. For a Cat one, you'll into five figures. no problem. That's the official price on the FIFA website They also have a resale site where the people is F for R, which is also FF for R Wh if you got it for the cheaper prices in October, which weren't that cheap by the way,'s still several thousand dollars free. I was going say speaking six thousand dollars thousand Yeah. But they're going for even more now. Well there's literally they put no limit on it.. They've let the market fly in terms of sales and FIA take a fifteen percent cut. from buyer and from seller So it's an extraordinary, you know, and I think if you take a step back, what's happened here Th these tickets, if they had been put on sale If they been on sale for hundreds rather than thousands Many of them would have ended up costing thousands on secondary ticket websites sold not legally And essentially, the economic strategy here is to capture all of that gain inside the FIFA ecosystem. So you have the resale, you have the sale dynamically. I mean you also have this other thing where there's some slightly odd crypto website where you can collect c, virtual cards that double up are currently being swapped for tickets. Right I mean, it that doesn't sound cheap to me. No, no, Aually, though for some people, that has been the cheapest way. R of getting a ticket. Apart from that, there are a few hundred tickets, I think, I think for each game for fans who have got tickets through their football associations, the supportorterers, where there are more typical reasonable prices where I think you can get some tickets for sixty dollars, for example ese are pretty rare. Anthony, FIFA's defense of these prices, I mean, it's a slightly loaded word to say it's a defense, but what they say about them is that actually going to live events in America, whether it's sports or concerts is just way more expensive than it is anywhere else in the world. And that just reminds me of when I went to see Taylor Swift in Liverpool and the hotel was full of American families who'd come to Britain to see Taylor because it was so much cheaper than seeing her at their local football stadium in America. Yeah, It's expensive. America is an expensive country, particularly the big cities where all of these matches are going to be held. They're they're just expensive places to go to Eents to park, to go to dinner, to stay in hotels, all of it just isn't cheap. And I have European friends who come over here and repeatedly remark about how expensive things are across the United States. Now Gianni Fantino said three hundred dollars for a ticket for the lowest level World Cup tickets is about the same as say, a college football orting event here which is very popular in the United States and that's not exactly true. You can get tickets to college football games for much less than that. But the high profile tickets, the big games, the ones that sell out stadiums the way that the World Cup hopes to sell out stadiums, those are expensive and they you have to pay either retail or through these secondary markets, a pretty penny to be able to enjoy them. And Anthony, is it true that some of the attorneys general of the states where matches are being held have decided to investigate FIFA? Yeah, there is currently ongoing investigations into FIFA into how they struck out this dynamic pricing arrangements, the sorts of deals they have with local local governments for things like transportation. and you know it'll be it'll be difficult for it to get to anywhere. the leillgal years in the United States grind slowly. and here we are almost at the start of the World Cup. But I think what that shows because attorneys general, they're usually political positions in the United States. They elective offices and they stand before the people to go back to their jobs during election years. They sense public dissatisfaction, they seense the ability to take advantage politically of the criticisms of the World Cupet of FIFA. And that's why they're getting out ahead of this and bringing these cases. And John, I mean, you and your colleagues, this is luckily something you don't have to necessarily worry about because you're there for work and you get a great seat through your job But what about people who don't have that privilege? What sort of things are you hearing from them? Yeah, I've got great, great sympathy with people who have made it their life to go to tournaments, whether it's e Euros, World Cups and follow their teams. and What I'm intrigued to find out is, is this going to be different? Because even as a commentator I think all of the World Cups that I've covered, all seven of them up to this point, one of the great joys is that mix of humanity, football supporters, people who are coming from all over the world and mixed together in big numbers, in the host cities and all around the host countries Are we going to see that to the same degree here? and not only that inside the stadiums You know, to see huge stands full of supporters of one country. I'm not sure that is going to be a thing at this World Cup And from my point of view, from an observer's point of view, that makes it a lesser spectacle. You know, only a few days ago I was at the Champions League final in Budapest. Bant you know seventeen thousand supporters and I know people will say it should be many more than that, but seventeen thousand supporters two teams involved PSG at one end, Arsenal at the other color, the atmosphere that that provides Is everything around the organization, ticket prices, hotels, transport, etcera, etc. Is that actually going to completely change the face of this World Cup? I have a feeling it might because you have a sort of generic crowd rather than people who are true partisans Yeah, just to echo what John's saying, but when you go along to like the World Cup or the Eururos, you know, one of the most Like almost quite moving bits of going to games as a fan is just seeing like all these different people from all different parts of the world often trying to talk to each other. there's a real like happiness. And I think when we talk about the politics, I wonder whether if that happiness were to exist between the fans, that that could perhaps eclip some of the political conversation. But like Joh's saying, if the kind of ingredients aren't there And that might not be the case. And some of I investigate all the bad stuff on social media, but some of my favorite social media content is often like football fans at the World Cup. like people who try and to take pictures with every fan from every country and all that kinds of stuff. You just wonder if yeah that the vibe the vibe might be a bit different. And Anthony, sticking with with the pricing thing, explain to me this story about what sounds like the world's most expensive train Yeah, so this has been a source of controversy. It is a train that runs from New York City to the football stadium, Met Life Stadium, which I think is being rebranded as New Jersey Stadium. to avoid corporate sponsorship issues for the World Cup where the championship match is going to be held. and this train because a lot of people are going to be staying in New York. there's nothing really around the stadium and in the meeadowlands in New Jersey. It's basically just an empty field and swamp It could cost. It originally was being slated as costing one hundred and twenty dollars round trip to get there. This is a ticket that normally costs commuters in the areas only about ten dollars. So a massive markup. And the reason why the markup took place was because according to the governor of New Jersey FIFA wasn't shouldering any of the costs of transport, and this was all required for security and in order to run these trains more often in order to handle the mass crowds. Now since then, there's been a deal struck. I think the tickets' gone down, and those haven't been selling out quite as much as I think they anticipated. only a fraction of them have been sold.s h you know, some of these additional costs, some of the these unpredicted fans coming to the United States, costs for getting to these stadiums, you know, it's catching them by surprise and it is generating a lot of angst and anger from the folks who want to get to a stadium which you can't walk to. you could drive, but parking's going to be expensive too. So you pretty much have to take the train. they're stuck Anthony, you've got a dash and go do some actual news now, so I'll let you go. All right, it's great talking to you. Thank you very much, byye bye So Fisel, intellectual point from you please. Isn't this just proof that football like lots of things is just now a giant global commodity and with globalisation, that means the best seats go to the highest bidders Yeah, I mean, actually I think this is a very American model Oh If you feel like they're treating this like Super Bowls and they're pricing it like it's a Super Bowl final. That's not always going to be the case with some partarticularly, I think it's in Los Angeles where they've got not the most famous teams in the world up against each other that may not fill the stadium. So you still you know you can pick up tickets for two to three hundred dollars if you want to see, I think, you know, Jordan. Yeah, it's tricky, but it's very out of character for these for these tournaments to have things like Not just charging people eighty to one hundred dollars. In Boston it is eighty dollars But then sort of basically you can't get there any other way You know, it seems quite it's like you're being channeneled into this one form of transport. Whereas in Qatar in Germany all around the world, you know in Germany twenty years ago. They let everybody travel the entire breadth of Germany on their bullet trains essentially for free. People were starting in Frankfurt and ending up in Berlin if they had a ticket to a match You know, obviously that's not going And so you had a totally different, you know, as Marana points out, you had a tot different vibe You had like thousands of young people on their interail trip like going from city to city where the bestces were. So very different here, sort of luxury experience. A peopleople going to do the old sort of NFL style what they call tailgating like a barbecue out of their giant SUV Is that the type of thing that's going to happen Prices have followed And the question, you know, and FIFA have sat there saying, well, we're pricing this like it's a North American tournament um very different from Qatar, as I said, evenven though you know there were questions about the atmosphere there and how involved and passionate the fans were in the Gulf U It's going coming back to Spain and Morocco and Portugal I just don't think the Spanish public, for example, who are a little bit more like They're never going for the Spantish government which is pretty left wing Yeah see if they're still in place for years time. But like I just can't imagine that they'll they'll allow this. So this is like it may be a very one off experience. It's interesting that it's a similar thing prices are still being charged in Canada and Mexico, although there are limits on reselling the tickets But yeah, they are saying if Ticket toouts are going to make thousands of dollars because they happen to have been allocated a ticket in a drawer ballot We're going to we're going to take that money And they would argue we're going to recycle it into the sort of footballing family. Yeah. mean we'll come on to FIFA's finances in a second, but I just wanted to play this clip of Gianny and Fantino from FIFA reacting to this idea that's done the rounds that there is a two million pounds ticket. And here's what Gianny In Fantino said about that If some people put on a secondary on a resale market, some tickets for the final two million doars Number one, it doesn't mean that the tickets cost two million dollars. Num two, it doesn't mean that somebody will buy these tickets. actually if somebody buys a ticket for the final two minute. I will personally bring him a hot dog and a Cke to make sure that he has a great experience a You know, we have to we have to look at the market. We are in a market in which entertainment is the most developed in the world. So we have to apply market rates in the U.S It is Permitt it Uh. resell tickets as well. So if you were to sell tickets at the price which is too low, these tickets would be ressold at a much higher price. And as a matter of fact evenven though some people are saying that the ticket prices we have are high They still end up on the resale market at an even higher price, more than double. I think that's if you can't beat him join them argument. Also I think Gianie Infantino is there talking from my own reading of the FIF and ticketing website about a hospitality package and the hot doog, you actually have to pay extra for it to get access to one of the pitchide bars. John, do we think this two million pound ticket actually exists or has it just become a bit of a sort of an emblem for just how expensive it all is? It was reported that there were four tickets available behind the goal for the finals for almost two point three million dollars each By the way, behind the goal is not that good. Behind the goal. Exactly. I'm too small. I wouldn't be able to see anything. Yeah. But you see the The clincher here will be And it is true what he says about how much it costs to watch sport in America, the US Hp golf goes on when we'll be at the World Cup in the United States. and to go to a day's golf at the US Open. It's hundreds and hundreds of dollars for a ticket. But what the clincher will be is and will perhaps set the tone for future World Cups is if all of the stadiums are full it. You know, everyones saying well, they won't be full peopleeople won't payid But if they are full, then You know, that's it, isn't it? The flood gates are open And John, just on the logistics. I mean, fans might find themselves traversing a lot of miles depending on how their team does Oh, o yeah, absolutely. So so you know catar This worldor Cub could not be more different because The longest drive we had in Qatar was about an hour and a half to the furthest stadium away. and you know people could go to several matches per day. and actually I think if you had a match ticket travel on the public transport, on the metro, the glistening. Qatar Metro was free for anyone who had a ticket. And for this one Some locations are two thousand eight hundred miles apart from one another. And the cost of flights will be exorbitant as well. So you know that's another factor in it all. And that's the thing, Fizel. E though America is the inventor of the low cost airline, air travel in America has become very expensive in the last few years It has and The United States is about to mark its two hundred fiftieth anniversary. And so on the gllobal story podcast from the BBC, we're telling surprising tales of American influence on the world stage and in ordinary people's lives all across the globe. We have this ability to export our story, and a lot of people bought it. I feel like the American Dream is alive, but not well rom the BBC, it's the United States at two hundred fifty. Listen on bbc. com or wherever you get your podcasts. How did a ballerina build one of the most controversial companies in finance? This week on Good Bad Billionaire Luanna Lopez Lara, the youngest self made female billionaire on the planet. Her company, Kalsi, lets you trade on anything from elections to the weather, to war. Supporters say it predicts the future. Critics say it could undermine democracy. So is she a visionary? or has she turned the whole world into a casino? Good Bad billionaire Listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts. How has America shaped the world I'm Am Makhaalet, host of the Global Story Podcast from the BBC As the United States marks its two hundred and fifty year anniversary, we've been exploring the surprising and often hidden ways the U.S has shaped the modern world. And todayoday on the show, we answer your questions about this moment and what to expect in the years to come. From the BBC, it's the United States at two hundred fifty. Listen to the global story on bbc dot com or wherever you get your podcasts And this also kind of shines a light on the economic impact because it's so diffuseed, because you've got lots of cities. and they're very far apart concentrated impact on these economies won't be as much as it was, I think it was an eight percent lift in the GDP ofQatars. It was smaller And so they're often justified. We heard the clip at the top there of saying it's going to raise twenty thirty billion. It's not actually that much in terms of the size of the American economy What you tend to see, the justification for And in this case, what's interesting is that they haven't funded huge infrastructure improvements. Often what you see is that You get new stadiums, you get motorways built, you get metro systems built, you get new airports being built. And in fact the reason there isn't a match in Washington DC is because the stadium there is sort of falling apart and hasn't been rebuilt yet. Yeah And so it will be a bit weird because there'll be very big cities in Chicago is another city where The World Cup is not happening And then there are other cities where they haven't quite got the sort of big golden ticket games where they've cancellled their fan parks and things Um And there's a lot of other stuff going on in the states. I do wonder in economic terms though, like you know, like in a bigger picture, you've talked about Iran previous episodes. It's just so fascinating to think ' got Mexico, Canada, the U.S hosting this. They've been at loggerheads on the trade war You've got US and Iran. I just wonder if like Trump's going to go for some sort of ceasefire, some sort of World Cup ceasefire which will Wh that piece przice? Well one Yeah know one wonders to, which, you know And maybe that could free up what's going on the straightit of Hormoons and that might be a bit of an impact. So I think there's a lot of sort of geopolitics and geoeconomics kind of coursing through this World Cup but the actual macro boost to these three countries 's probably going to be on the low side because there's a lot of other stuff going on. But America doesn't really need an economic boost, does it I mean, think Donald Trump might Well it doesn't it doesn't it's not going to register on the scale of like what's happening in a different area like in their AI where basically the cost of living is going through the roof, but the American stock market is going through the roof, but equally American government borrowing is going through the roof as well. Yeah. John, help me out here and this is probably a very difficult question to answer with FIFA's finances. because they keep talking about they're a not for profit organization. Yeah. listen also it does cost a lot to put the worldorld Cup on However, they expect to make many billions more than that in revenue, but you're right FIFA is a not for profit organization And it says it reinvests the revenue from the World Cup to fuel the growth of the game across all of the associations over two hundred member associations and all of the various levels as well. And remember as well the power that infantino is playing into here with a forty eight team worldorld Cup It means that he is giving many more associations the chance to be on the big stage with the biggest teams and the biggest countries. So that's why we've got Tip Virdie Kuraao. Jordan bekistan involved in the World Cup for the first time because it's so big. and also lots and lots of other countries, not least Scotland, Adam. appppearing in the in the World Cup for the first time for a long time. Iraq is another one, the last team to qualify. Iraq han't played at the World Cup since nineteen eighty six So you know, we're talking about this from a from a UK point of view You know, we've talked a lot about England and what they might do, But you know, when you look at it from the from the through the lens of Uzbekistan, then This is What they've been waiting for football fans in Uzbekistan. orever And Fizel is FIFA kind of doing the global economy a bit of a favour here because we're always told that people go out and buy new TV's when the World Cup is on. Pe go out dver stickers. Yeah stickers just to give one example or massive pallets and kegs of beer for to drink with their mates in the back garden when their team is playing. Do Do it give global GDP a boost? You do see a boost to consumption you do see the superm you won't be able to move and possibly already in the supermarkets for like various official and unofficial kind of sponsorships the faces of the England team and the Scotland team kind of emblazoned everywhere And it does it does, you know, there is a modest effect on consumption Could it inject a bit of much needed feel good factor, which can help into the UK economy? It's been lacking. I think I'll probably put it like that I mean, certainly, I remember coming out of COVD when that delayed Euro twenty twenty tournament happened. It did suddenly feel like You know something happened generally with society and then something' sort of happened to help the economy rebound at that point. So yeah, if the home nations do well, if your nation does well I think once I saw a piece of economic research saying the best economic boost you can get is if the host country, of which they're three now does well, then you can see a material impact on GDP. I think it wouldll be different country with the American with the Americans. but certainly if you're if you're Mexico, kind of we shouldn't rule out in front of home audiences what that can do to the Canadians. They've got a, you know, a handy set of players. John will be better sighted on that, I think. Mexicans can H' got a few skills up there sleeve. So yeah, I think that that is the that is the the big imp And I've heard as well, it could give a bit of a boost to the Costa Brava and maybe all sorts of venues on the Mediterranean because A little bit like we've seen in recent years with the Cheltenam Racing Festival that people have decided it's too expensive. They're going to go and watch it all in Benadorm or wherever it happens to be There There is some talk that people have decided, Nope, we're not going to go to the United States. We're actually going to go and watch it en masse in Spain or wherever Wow So I'm trying to think of what my equivalent of that would be Not being able to go to Los Angeles for the Oscars, but just going to like York for the weekend to watch the Oscars at a niceer night. And then I' just come out with a holiday. Yeah F I know you've got to go and And it's to go and do work, not to go on that website. No, no exactly. exactly Okay. Thank you very much.ee you soon Right. This has very much been like the journalist zone because we've been talking about the politics, the diplomacy, how conflict is going on the football pitch, the personal relationships, the money, some of the tensions around it. So that's the journalist zone is closing for business. I'm going to reopen the fan zone now. Mara, tell me something you're actually're just looking forward to. Other than collecting stickers for my non specified book, All sticker books are available. I just think that there's something about I actually think this is sorry, this is super cliched, but nonetheless, I feel like this is the moment to say it. When you spend all your time investigating like outrage on social media and algorithmic division and polarisation, These kinds of tournaments feel like an opportunity for that to be sort of overcome. And I kind of there's a little bit of me that slightly worries that maybe we're all so kind of algorithmically polarised and sort of out loggerheads with one another, particularly because of what's unfolding on our feeds. that maybe that unity is not quite so possible in a way that it used to be, but it always seems like football is the time where people are able to kind of aside all of the other issues that they're arguing about and, you know get behind a particular team and you know even just watching and I'm sure Jon you for this, like the most random group game It's just such a fun experience. It's not even just about watching your national team. It's just like watching these teams, particularly those teams that are so excited to be at the World Cup because they've not been there before. I absolutely love doing that Yeah, you know, I've got my diary sitting here next to me and I know that when I look at it, my eyes are drawn to the England matches. You're absolutely right, Marianna, the other matches as well, which any match you go to at the World Cup means so much to the supporters of the two teams that are involved. You know, is it is the biggest deal and you really feel that. when you go there and sit in a mon state and and see those players singing the national anthem and the supporters in the stands. why That's why it iss so important to have as bigg a number as possible in the stands of supp us from those countries being there, so they can share the emotion of it. But you know of all of the things that I do in this job You know, I'm very fortunate to go to you know, commentate on big football matches, big sporting events. The World Cup is the best for me because of the joy that it brings, but at the same time, It really means something. to the supporters of those teams, they really, really care Well, I can't wait to hear you doing the day job, John. I just remember Italian ninety, Scotland being there in the World Cup and it felt like the sunniest happiest summer. of my childhood. I even remember things like a special episode of Rab S Nesbits, which Mariana is an old Scottish sitcom And it was big in those days that was where they went they went to Italy for that. And then of course the three teners at the end of it and just things that are seared into a nation's consciousness, but things that are seared in a nice way rather than a