Growth of Soccer in the US

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Do we know if he's licensed? or does he just st a ladder Listen to your home Coo a thumb tack Uload a photo or voice note and we'll diagnose your project and match you with the right pro for the job. Thumbtack. We know homes Hire the right pro today This is the second episode of our three part minieries we're doing as a collab. Oh I hate saying that word. sound like I'm in Amandaand with although I like the idea of collaborating the actual is good because we're working with Americast and the Football Daily to look at some of the issues around the World Cup. So not necessarily the actual football, but the things that we'll be talking in addition to the football. And with Dond Trump involved, there's obviously going to be some politics and some diplomacy happening there. and helping me out is somebody who She watches a lot more football than I do, Mariana Yes. I'm here to chat football and America and social media. And we are very lucky to also be joined by Anthony, who presents Americs with me and also by John Murray, who presents Football Daily. And John, I wonder if because in this episode, we're going to be talking about the tensions between the US and Iran Are there other World Cups where the host nation been or not even just the host nation, but where Various teams have been at war with one another, I guessost. I mean, United States and Iran do have history. This is not the first time that they've been involved in the World Cup. They played each other at World Cups passed in the aftermath of the Iranian Revolution And also the Iranian hostage taking crisis, you know so they were still in the relatively recent memory. I can also remember the euros when Denmark stepped in to replace Yugoslavia at the time of the Civil War in the Balkans in nineteen ninety two There were also tensions between Argentina and the teams from the UK at the World Cup in ' eighty two and still in ' eighty six after the Falklands War. And as well, a very famous one was the match between El Salvador and Honduras in nineteen sixty nine which alone It was the Hundred Days war. between El Salvador and Honduras and tensions were raised by a worldld Cup qualifier between the two of them just when things were really reaching boiling point. And after that match they spilled over and they actually went to war together John, you are theast toette of the football commentry bs. What how praise. Well, we'll be putting all those skills to use in this latest episode looking at some of the political issues and the international issues and the issues of war and peace around the twenty twenty six World Cup. Americast. Americast from BBC News. It's going to be the world's largest sporting event ever hosted. But when the time is up They'll have to go home. FIFA is making eleven billion dollars off of this World Cup. If somebody buys a ticket for the final two minute, I would personally bring in the hot dog and the Coke. It is such a unifying event It is also about winning I may put on shorts, I'll extremely good in shorts. enjoin the play. Hello, it's Adam from Newscast. And it is Mariana in the worldwide headquarters of Americast, but currently this sort of coab station, as we'll call it. And it's Anthony in the American headquarters of Americast and home to A World Cup mattress very, very soon. And John Marie sitting at my desk where I'm preparing countries at the Forthcoming World Cup And we're recording the second episode on Thursday, the fourth of june mid afternoon. So it reflects the world as it is as we're sitting here in the studio at our various home studios and international bureaus as well. So first of all, let's zoom in on the situation with Iran. And I don't mean the war between the US and Israel and Iran. I mean Iran's presence at the World Cup. And John, is it true that Iran, by sort of quirk of fate, we were one of the first few teams to actually qualify? Well, they were, but obviously everything has changed over the recent months and the immediate buildup to this World Cup. And really, this is the of all of the issues that we've got. and there are many, many issues surrounding this wh cook you know, this is this is top of the tree, isn't it? Because because of the proximity and everything that's been going on course of recent weeks And Anthony, do we know if the Iranian football team are actually going to be allowed to play? whether they'll be able to play in the US, whether they' be able to enter the US? What's the deal at the moment? It looks like they're going to play in the US. looks like they will be able to enter the US. It does not look like they're going to stay the night in the US during their matches the Trump administration had said that it was not safe for them to be here overnight. and Claudia Seinbaum, the president of Mexico actually stepped in and offered to host the Iranian national team in Mexico between their matches. So it appears they're going to fly in, play their match and then go back to Mexico, which can't be all that convenient for them, but it as a way of sidestepping what has been a kind of a sticky political situation here Well ye because Anthony there was that post on Truth Social from Donald Trump in March that was actually sort of a bit ambiguous or maybe a bit contradictory where he says the Iran National soccer team is welcome to the World Cup. But I really don't believe it's appropriate that they're here for their own life and safety What's he actually getting out there? What's the threat to them? That's a good question. And as you mentioned, it's kind of vague what the life and safety threats are. I think that the Trump officials kind of walk that back after the fact. I talked to Andrew Giuliani, who Trump put in charge of security at the World Cup. and I asked him about that true Social post he said, Well, no, you we Iran is welcome here. They're welcome to play their matches here and that were, Donald Trump later clarified that they could do it. But it did seem kind of like a veiled threat, right? And also Donald Trump trying to encourage them not to come because he didn't want the optics to visual images of Iran playing World Cup matches on American soil at a time when the United States and Iran were in the midst of hostilities on the battlefield. And it also sounds like there's an issue because some of the people in the squad or who might end up being on the team had served in the IRGC, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, which is a banned terrorist organization in the U.S. So there's a question about ability to enter the country. Well, that's right. And I think from a, you know, from the point of view of the individuals who are involved quuite apart from what's going on back in the Middle East. You know, for the players who are involved in this, there is so much uncertainty And you know, you bring together a squad of twenty six plus all of the rest of the staff that that you would normally expect to be there with a World Cup squad And you know, there'll be a whole range of opinions and feelings. I think we saw this with the women's team, the Iranian women's team at the Asia Cup in Australia earlier in the year But we don't, you know so much uncertainty. what sort of reception Will this squad, will the team get? when they actually get to the venue. So they're going to play the first two matches in Los Angeles. against New Zealand and Belgium And then the third group match against Egypt in Seattle everything that will be going on around those matches. It's a total unknown. and also what will be happening politically How will this war develop over the course of the time that they're there And I think physically physically and mentally as well, to be based in Mexico in Tijuana and making those journeys back and forth to Los Angeles and then the long trip to Seattle as well No that will take its toll. and I know there are much more important things than what is happening in the sport, but If they If they're able to get a point at this World Cup, I would be amazed just because they'll be having such a hard time. logistically. And John, I mean, we talked about Gianni in Infantino, the FIFA presresident in the previous episode. He to me seems like somebody who does not want politics, diplomacy, conflict to interfere with his giant might say money making jamboree. But I wonder if he, like lots of people are discovering in this era that you only have so much control And actually once things start happening, it's in the hands of lots of other people. Yeah. But if there's one thing we know about Ganni infantino is that he is not easily swayed and he has been adamant from the outbreak of the conflict, from on the point the war started, all of the various discussions about whether Iran would be involved He has been unswerving that Iran part of this and we'll play at this World Cup and Jesus submitting As we speak now, it looks as though we will, which is a remarkable situation. We'll be talking about this and referring back to Iran playing at this twenty twenty six World Cup for years and years to come Also, John, there's a possibility isn't there that Iran could actually play the US Yeah. That's right. because it's such a big worldld Cup. forty eight teams and because that means that third place teams will be going through some of the third place teams in the group it's very difficult to work out Who will play who But it is a possibility that they could end up playing each other in the round of sixteen. Can you imagine everything that would surround that match, it would be. I mean, I think that's where it's almost impossible to avoid the politics if they mean with other. And they actually played in nineteen ninety eight the U.S and Iran. and there was a lot of prop political tension there. and that was just because of the Iranian revolution in ' seventy nine and the various lower level clashes between the United States and Iran over the ensuing decade. So the stage would be set for something that that would be very dramatic if it gets to that and I you know we'll see. I don't think it's likely, but you know, you never know with soccer. anything' possible, right? Yeah. And just to give you a little bit of an insight, you know to what players might be thinking I mentioned earlier about Argentina playing England in ' eighty six, which was four years after the Falklands warar. I've got my copy of Diego Maradononna's autobiography next to me here because there's a paragraph where he talks about this because I do remember at the time, you know, the Argentina players would say, well, you know, this is sport, this is not about the World Cup. In his autobiography, Diego Maradona says Qote Of course, before the match, we said that football had nothing to do with the Malvinas warar, but we knew a lot of Argentinian kids had died there, shot down like little birds. This was revenge It was like recovering a little bit of the malvvenus Wow. So that was eighty six and You know, I think you can see into the minds of the Iranian players situation come about where Iran plays the United States at this World Cup, can't you And we should say there's reports that they don't have their visas yet. So actually that's why we're still in the zone of speculation about what might happen in the next few weeks. Anthony, talking about the U.S. visa regime, it's been toughened up a lot in the last year or so. and there are some countries who have qualified for the World Cup Whse citizens, and by extension, whose football players are almost sort of effectively banned from entering the US. Right Iran, Senegal, Cot Vvois, Haiti, all of these countries are covered by the visa bans that the Trump administration has instituted. So the teams will, you would imagine, be able to get in even Iran. I don't think they want to create a diplomatic incident where they block the visas of players but the fans who want to come and support their teams is going to be much more difficult for them to get in. Now the Trump administration has made provisions for streamlining visa applications from World Cup countries. If you have tickets, you have a special means of applying for visas, but they' a lot of bureaucracy. and for those specific countries, it still seems like there's some pretty significant hurdles for anyone who wanted to come here from say, Haiti and cheer on the Haitian team, which very rarely plays in a World Cup, let alone one that is so close to their home country. and yet they are going G got to find it very difficult to get here and to cheer for their team. And Marco Rubio the sectary of State said in November, yourour FIFA ticket is not a US visa, which must sound great if you just paid twenty two grands for that ticket. Also Anthony, I'm a bit confused about the status of the kind of the border checks that you get now if you go to the US because this whole thing about, oh, they're going to raak through all your social media posts for years and years and years. and they might do it in front of you and you might get turned away at the airport. What's the status of all that stuff they said they will look and there have been some high profile incidents where people have been prohibited from entering the country, but they are they're high profile. I think if you're a fan who is not a famous personality coming in, I don't think you have to worry too much about them going through your social media profile at this point Uh, But know it has a chilling effect. All of this has a chilling effect for people who are looking at coming into the United States for what was presented back when they announced this as a huge event that would showcase the United States and be able to turbocharge American tourism for years to come. And now there is this shadow being cast over it based on the immigration policies of the Trump administration, the crackdowns on undocumented migrants throughout this country, many of which are from countries, manyany of the people are coming from countries or here from countries that are participating in the World Cup. And so it is if I had a ticket and I was coming from someplace would Personally not be worried too much about it, but I can understand why it would be a concern The social media profilile thing is quite interesting because I've been getting quite a lot of messages from people who are concerned about that. like if you post criticism of Donald Trump or JD Vance, will you be prohibited from entering the country? And what I would say is actually, although exactly like Anthony says, there are lots of high profile examples in the U.S. I mean, there are also high profile examples here recently where people have had been denied entry to the UK. That actually who you can watch live streaming Yeah ye's to millions of people. Yeah, but they can't speak to a smaller crowd of people, et cetera, which is interesting in and of itself. But I think it's just become, you know and that's not to say that that it's right in any way or to make a judgment call on it, but to put people's social media like handles on visa applications, I think is just becoming sort of what everyone does now. and like Anthony says, it would take a lot of time to trarawl through everybody's social media. including all the football fans. And John, when you look at your work in the past, they'll just be very impressed, I'm sure. Mariana, were you're going to talk about IC now, who are the immmigration and Customs enforcement officers who were big news a couple of months ago, just remind us of the context of why there was so much concern and anger around the IC agents. Yeah, so there were two very high profile killings of people in the US by ICE, which is this US immmigration and Customs Enforcement officers. And I think one of the reasons why these were such sort of high profile cases is because they were American citizens who were killed and also because they seem like average person and because footage of those killings was also then made available and a lot of people had filmed the aftermath and so on and so forth. and it was quite shocking and quite emotive. And it sparked this huge conversation about whether IS officers were going beyond what they should be doing in terms of their jobs and using violence when it maybe wasn't necessary. And then people started talking about the World Cup and saying, Well, hang on a second, this is just happening on you a random day. What about when there are loads and loads of fans here from all different places? Are they going to be carrying out these kinds of raids and checks and could it get violent? IC has said it's quote a key part of the overall security apparatus for the World Cup That means that they're kind of involved in security, but not necessarily in terms of enforcing immigration I think that people are still really worried that does that mean that again, violence and force could be used in situations where it gets messy and horrible and people are killed? Yeah, Anthony, do we have any more clarity on what ICE are actually going to be doing? Be it sounds like they'll be there around the stadiums al along with the police. That's the way it sounds and they've been presented as being there to support security and to contribute to making sure that the facilities and supporting events are safe. But when you have IC agents there, the concern is that they might start to check people's papers to check to make sure that they have they have proper documentation. and that could that could, as Marianna suggests, create a an environment for conflict, but the the Trump administration has gone out of its way to say no, this isn't going be there aren' going to be raids, there aren't going to be crackdowns around the stadiums. But if you were an Iranian national or you were a Haitian national who had been in the spotlight in American politics during the presidential campaign in twenty twenty four and you're going to have a game watch maybe someplace even far from a stadium. A lot of people getting together from the Hait to There would be concern, cause for concern because immigration officials have targeted communities and have targeted gathering locations for undocumented migrants in these immigrant communities before. So why would they believe what the administration is saying that there isn't going to be any kind of stepped up enforcement this time around, it seems like a risk they may not be willing to take And John, you're heading to Mexico U Mexico has basically had a war between the government and the drug cartels and then between the cartels too. and for the last few years has not felt like a very safe country. And I think some people will have been put off going on holiday there, even though lots of the holiday areas are very, very safe. What's your take on just the sort of the security situation and the stability of Mexico at the moment? Stories about crime Um, you know The team that I'll be traveveling with, we've had extra information given to us just to be on the safe side to make sure that everyone's okay when they go there, just to be extra alert But at the same time, you know, I've spoken to BBC colleagues Will Grant our correspondent in Mexico City who has given us very, very good advice about what it will be like being there And I think it will be different in Mexico City. That would be my perception because you know of all of the places at this World Cup where I think you will get a feel of to inverted comas what the World Cup is all about. It's Mexico City because they are football mad. And I think I get the impression as well that maybe the anger there is, and I know we'll come ono this in our third episode In my experience, travelling to World Cubps one of the best supported teams. is Mexico. They travel in their thousands. It's an amazing event to be at when Mexico play at the World Cup Now they've got matches in twenty twenty six in their own country. And so many of the people who would have traveled to those matches in other countries and on the other side of the world can't afford to go to the matches that are now being played in Mexico So I think there's a little bit of anger there as well, which is something that we'll have to be watching for. And football's obviously super popular in Mexico. Anthony, how? Is the American dream still possible I'm Am Makhalad, one of the hosts of the Global Story podcast from the BBC One of the most successful exports the United States has ever sold the world is the American Dream, that tantalizing promise of a better, freer, richer life Is it still attainable? 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I feel like the American Dream is alive but not well rom the BBC, it's the United States at two hundred fifty. Listen on Bbc. com or wherever you get your podcasts. How is it faring in the US? Because soccer as you call it is not the most popular sport in America. And I certainly see a lot of posts slightly taking the mick out of American fans and suggesting that they kind of don't quite get it. L they' they're very nice and friendly with their chanting in a way that certainly us British football fans are probably less so Don't group myself among that. I think yes, obviously football, soccer as we call it here, is not the most popular sport in the United States. That is American football and the NFL and basketball and maybe baseball as well. But it is a growing sport. It has the highest level of youth participation of any sport In the United States, kids grow up playing soccer here all across various communities. About ten percent of the American public says that soccer is their favorite sport of all of them. So and that has been a steadily growing number in part because of the growing number of migrants in this country from places where soccer is the one big sport. U I Something like this, this event will have will catch on quickly because Americans like cheering for an American team. and if the US does well, if it makes it to the knockout round, youll only see that kind of fanaticism grow. Now after the tournament' over, it'll go back to being one of the lower tier sports here in the United States, certainly nothing close to the NFL, but it does have a solid reliable fan base. And if you go to These MLS soccer stadiums, whether it's inner Miami down in Florida or here in DC with DC United or across the country, you will find a loyal fan base and people in in the tens of thousands showing up for games regularly. So you know, yeah, you can make fun of the United States and make fun of the soccer fanship here there a bunch of us out there and we are we are sticking with the sport through thick and thin. And let's not forget that The interest in football in the USA is probably much greater than it was when they first hosted it back in USA ninety four. And another thing not to overlook is of all of the previous twenty two World Cups. That in ninety four was the best attended. The biggest crowds because it was played in the biggest stadiums, but nevertheless, they set the records there and this year because it's a bigger tournament, more teams