Childhood Trauma and Learning to Ride

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Archair E experpert. I'm Dack Shepppard. I'm joined Mica Padman. Hi. We have an actor with an incredible story and we're blessed with his memoir which is I wrote this for attention. Today we have Lucas Gagejohn And you know, wild story, Really wild. And he was very open with us and it was really lovely. Yes, incredibly vulnerable He was in the White Lotus, Euphoria. You, Fargo smiled to And he has a new movie out now on Netflix voicemail for Isabele. Rade movie Great movie movie. Great. Please enjoy Lucas Gage This episode is brought to you by American Beverage. We've probably all had that moment where someone says something about an ingredient in your drink and you're like, shouldhould I be worried about that? And then you look it up and immediately end up in the wildest corners of the internet with completely contradicting information. All I want is clear transparent information. And I bet you do too. That's why American Beverage launched Good to K know. It's a site where you can look up over one hundred and forty common beverage ingredients, what they are, how they're used, how they've been reviewed for safety. No spin or judgment. just facts. You can decide for yourself. Visit good to Knowfacts. org for more information We get support from Quintince Have you been wearing the Quinslin shirts? Yeah. I've been wearing them a suspicious amount. Yeah, European linen ones, They're thirty four bucks, which is genuinely insane for how nice they are. It doesn't even make sense. Well here's the deal. They work directly with the factories, cut out all the middlemen, so you're paying for the actual quality and not some brand's marketing budget Everything's fifty percent to eighty percent less than comparable stuff. I love it because it's all very classic and traditional and I know I'm going to be able to keep it for a very long time and the quality' off the charts. That's true. The style is very consistent. 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Yeah, so you and I were both at a party. Yeah on thank you. Sunday. You wna out who it was We love him Oh Pineas. Okay. Yeah we were havinghineas's party. Yeah. And you were there and we said hi to each other and And you said, Oh, I'm doing the show this week. And I said, I know I'm really excited. Yeah And then I was like, I gott to get the fuck away from this guy immediately because I don't want to talk to you That's what I discover a bunch of fun stuff about you and then have to replicate that today. And then I left the party. I was even talking to Ryan. Do you know Ryan Hanson? Do you know that with I know I know who he is but I saw you with him. Yeah. We then were together the rest of the day and I was just the whole day. I was like, I'm so worried that Lucas thinks I'm a dick, but I just was so like, I don't want to . I'm really glad you made that move because then yeah, this whole episode would have just been a repeat. That's what I felt though. I was I felt like I was being a dick to you. Oh no. You talked to Kristin a bunch, right? Yeah, Kristin was great. She was so lovely. and then I was like, I need to like make up for being so weird about like I was holding a taco and I didn't shake your hand 'cause I had a taco in my hand. No I didn't notice any of that. I was hyper aware that I didn't wanna blow my load before ourodast. And then I real was very mutual. get I'm sorry I was neuronic about the fact that you're like, what a dick. Like, hey, I'm doing your show this week. And I'm like, cool, see you later No one wanted to just say like we shouldn't talk because we're gonna have to save it E probablyably should have have said that. I don't even know that I connected what my impulse was until after the fact. Okay. L I don't even know if in that moment I knew. I don't think I did either. Yeah. I thought about it later I was like, maybe that's why I was so awkward with them because I was so aware. And I feel like I have this weird parocial relationship with you guys because I've listened to your podcast. Oh you have. Oh. Oh, we love her. That's. It's a weird kind of balancing act of like do I talk to them before or do I tell them that I'm I don't know I love that. I'm glad we're the same experience. Yes. And you know what's really funny, Luucas is that we've had guests arrive like really early and they've been neurotic about not wanting to talk to me And I have said to them, donon't worry. we'll have plenty like you don't need to worry about blowing. Even Letterman kept going like, o let get inside. Oh, oh yeah. Yeah he is like Letterman was like worried we were gonna blow stuff.' the master of conversations. so he knows. Yeah, he knows. But also it's Dave Letterman. I bet we're fine. Yeah. It's nice to know even he has those anxieties. Isn't it comforting? That is comforting. Yeah, all of us are terribly insecure. so insecure. Well your wife made me feel a lot better about it. I talked her about my insecurity about it. She told me She had a very nice chat with you. She was lovely. Yeah, and I think she told me she said like, Ohh well, don't worry, Deax will make sure you're fine. I say that. And I will. She was very sweet. And then she was like crocheting the coolest thing I've ever seen in my life. Oh, I know. She's making like a bandana thing point. Yeah. She's like really intricate though. No. She'll also do that like on a roller coaster, right? There's no point she will be obsess. Yeah She could be on the back of a motorcycle and she I really want. You want to learn? No, I want her to make me one. Okay, but we also met in Austin I'll never forget it. Okay, tell me. First I'll say, I've never seen someone be so composed at a Q and A as you were. You blew my mind. It was the most nuts Q and A. was it? What was It was the Connor McGregor thing. You were there. for Rad House Were you an audience? I wasn't the audience. That was a crazy premiere. Yeah peopleople were just wasted. Y. Please give me your perspective, becausecause Monica and I have ours. We were there, we experienced it, but please give me your perspective And we'll both be running the risk of getting beat up by Connor McGregor. I already got in trouble for saying that he fucked my back up and he got not in theet. I meant it in a loving way. I was glad that he beat me up on side. I was like, that's so cool. Yeah. I love that I could say Connor McGregor like fractured my disc. You're in a list of very tough people. Totally. No, I felt really cool. and I meant it as a compliment. I just remember being next to Post Malone, Jake Joenhall and Connor McGregor and being like, what the fuck am I doing here? I don't belong here. And I remember you were so sweet. Maybe you're just a good person, but I think you could feel how nervous I was and you said something about Guys, have you seen Fargo This kid's really good at acting. was so you were spectacular as far ago. remember the fucking goofy golfing Dory husband. Oh, I know. I know. Thank you guys. you' just like every time the guy talked, you're like, Oh fuck dude I would to be that. And that was such a good season. Yeah It was a great season. That was the bad That was so good. F That was a good season. Thank you though. you were so sweet. and I just remember being completely in over my head. I was in over my head as well I couldn't help You were so composed. I don't know how you pulled it off. Well, to set the context. so we got invited to after a screening of Rodad House Q and A with the cast. And then I said I would do that if we could interview Connor. Yeah. So we had done that earlier in the day Connor and Jake together. Okay We did have a really sweet moment at the end of that interview where I was encouraging him to embrace the kid who got beat up who then pursued this because he had been humiliated. And remember that boy and let the other boys know that it's okay to be that boy, right? I just begged him. I'm like so many dudes look at you as the apex of masculinea. You have a great opportunity. just urge you to share The vulnerable stuff, and he like connected with that. He also started drinking in the interview and it was pretty early in the day. And I just was more like, wow, this is going to be fascinating to see how he Oh he manages this day. He's got a lot of day ahead of him. I know he's got a lot of press and then we've got the screening. So we go off and fuck off and have some barbecue and we do whatever. and then we go to the Q and A. We go to the movie night. Yeah And then I have this whole thing where I try to go in the bathroom, security stops me B bathroom's blocked off, but then it's him in there and then he lets me in I know that was like just stage one of like this. Yeah. And then we were seated one row behind them And I was just staring at him the whole screening, right? He also travels with a people, yeah, yeah, ye. So many people and everyone was having a lot of fun. Yeah. He has his own whiskey, right? So he's drinking a fifth What I did notice at one point, I'm watching him drink whiskey and pour glasses for people and then I noticed the bottle's gone, right? And I watched him open the top. So I was like, okay, a fifth of whiskey has been dranked during this premiere N bottle comes out. I'm watching some other stuff that I'll say I'll get sued for, but I'm making some assessments about what all's going on. Yeah. By the time we get on that stage, and I think I even said to Monica as I was walking up, I was like, well, let's see what this is gonna to be like And then you felt it out there like, you're in the movie. I have nothing to do with that movie. So I'm already dealing with that. like Are people like, why is this guy doing this? He wasn't in the movie quickly Connor takes charge Yeah and it's a live audience and when I'm asking certain cast members questions he's answering. I'm now like How do we play this? I know what I would normally do, which is I would start making fun of this person gently who's on stage and everyone's feeling this. And also it's Conor McGregor. and is he going fucking kick my ass in front of everybody? Talk about the stakes being the highest, I think because you have the on stage component and then you have the is he going beat me up if I make fun of them? And then I did start gently making fun of him. a woman in the cast I was like, I'm gonna to ask you this question Jessica, I remember Jessica. But Connor's gonna answer. Yeah. and everyone starts dying laughing and I'm literally like, is this the moment he turns and looks at me with that haunting look in thisase that just comes after me But he laughed. him about it? And I'm like, okay, we got away with that one. And then it was just me trying to pepper in some jokes, acknowledging that we had all lost control of this Q and A because Connor was up there The craziest thing that happened right afterwards was he had hugged me And he was trying to connect with me over that kind of moment we had in the thing which is beautiful. Yeah I also can't understand what he's saying because he has a very thick Irish accent. Maybe he was a little drunk. I'm having PTSD from all the times I've been around tough dudes who are too drunk to know they're repeating something and then they catch you catching them and then they want to fight. Totally. So how am I navigating this? we're embracing? This is so stressful. then By the grace of God, his manager passed out. I was ex for about that to the hospital, right? That funny. I got about this two days ago. This is so s and weird. It just popped in my head that that was scary. Yeah it was scary. Someone like someone was having maybe a seizure in the audience. and then thank goodness that happened not for that part person. So I can't believe that was the end of that. What'e What? I know Like he was in rescue mode. and I was like Oh my God. fromrom the second he like I remember just looking at mine going, let's get the fuck out. We gota go because I've not gotten beat up yet. I was so scared. I was like Googling later like what happened to this guy? L too and it was like dehydration or something. I saw my breakfast and he was fine. Totally fine And I say Yeahah completely. He's like, it happens every time I go out. But I'm trying to remember if it was you I think because that whole thing happened, then the next day a lot of guys were checking out from the movie and I was out there checking out. and then I was chatting with some guys. I didn want to say I think I was talking to I was talking to you ye. And someone on the set was telling me that what they figured out while making that movie was that he had arrived with a bodyguard. And at first everyone in the cast assumed, oh, people probably try to fuck with him. That guy's here to protect Connor And then it started occurring to everyone throughout the shoot. Oh no, that guy's here to protect us. Yeah Wow Wow, What a way to go through the world. I mean wildild experience. Yeah. The most insane experience of all time. And then just throwing in Jake Chill in a Donnie Darko was my shit as a kid So I'm like just trying to keep it together and not anangirl over him and not killed by Connor McGregory at the same time. There's lots of balance.'s a lot. Jesus Christ. Yeah. stressful the best And is Lyman. so it's also a wild director. Everything changes every minute. Yeah Was it that the craziest work experience you' ever? The craziest I've ever had, but the best experience. And I remember Jake saw me getting a little like frustrated in the beginning and not knowing what to do and just holding on in my preparation too much and trying to be like the good student and he was like every take like a rehearsal Nothing matters, everythingvery's going to change, We're just rehearsing Great M kind of changed my whole m Then I was fine. Okay, great. Then I was good. He's lovely. He's great. It's also a very machisos set, right? It's like all the guys are gonna to be shirtless. We got to be jacked. probably working out. ye. And the Cnter's around everyone's fucking even more tripped out. Yeah, it was insane. It was like fight camp in Dominican Republic socialress. I can only imagine how that experience would have gone for me at your age wereere I in that movie? Anne Connor was there And then let's say I was drinking too. I wouldn't have got through the whole not thing without some I would have gone down. I would be here with like an eye patch on. Speaking of you have very nice teeth. Oh really? They're. They are I got them knocked out. How' you get them knocked out I had jumped when I was eighteen. I have these scars in my face. Oh my God. That sounds very traumatic. you're smiling very large. I you're so happy to have gotten the time. I love my face. I love my busted veneers. No no. That's my go to. I like laugh about the most fucked up shit and cover it up with a smile and talk about the most mundane things as it's very emotional for me for some reason. but yah, I was at a party and got jumped friend beat up for being gay and I think there was mayaybe some part of me that was subconsciously, I wasn't out or anything, but I was protecting him and myself, I think. Yeah. And I jumped in and guys just sh out of How many guys is this a San Diego partarty? S Diego partarty. Yeahah. Explain the dudes. Are they surfer dudes? Are they fucking glamous dudes? They're like somewhere in between. They were like rich kids that were a little broie and a little little MGa vibes, I think. And yeah, I don't know. Did you watch Veronica Mars Of course, they shot in oceanside. Yes, ye, yeah, of course. Kind of Jason Doring's crew, it sounds like like kind of rd. Yeah That was very much the vibe in San Diego. He just got beat up for being gay and the guy was wearing a pink tank top and called him a f and I was like, you're the you're wearing a pink tank top. That didn't go well. didid not go well. Yeah my . So yeah, five guys against me, like broke my teeth, broke my nose, broke my orbitals. my go. That's why I have a very punchable face. No do I do. It's o. I have a lovable face.. Were you in the hospital for this? I was, yeah. This is horrible. For how many days? Just like a day after it happened and then I had to go back to put everything back together for a bit. Okay, there was a little reconstruction. There was a little reconstruction going. my nose was like completely Really rough, reallyally rough. Yeah, okay. These guys go to jail left this part out of the story. I threw the first punch after he got mad of me going on back even though he was already attacking the kid and they got lawyers that said that technically it was self defense. Oh my God. I know No one got faulted for it. It was bullshit Yeah. It's like no fault accident I don't like that you don't like him. No because this his fault. How much older is Coreory your brother than you? Is that say Cory? Yeah, Coryy's seven years older. And when he found out about this, what was his reaction? How did you know that though? By the way, You do your research. Damn yeah, that's much That's like you just scratched the surface. You wait, He knows a lot about you. He was in the army at that time and dealing with his own recovery and I think he got kicked out of the army at the same time and we were not in the best of speaking terms at that moment. So he didn't go ape shit. He would have if he was there. Yeah. Yeah. He would have been Big Brother protective mode for sure Okay, so is it just you two? I have three older brothers. Three older brothers. Yeah. Okay, what are the ages? Corey's the second oldest. He's the second Jess, he's the oldest. He's nine years. How much older? No, he's My mom was nineteen when she had him. Oh, really? And then that husband passed away M I ask how that's young to pass away? In a motorcycle accident. Oh yeah. My mom rode motorcycles together and o yeah it was bad It was really bad. It was like a month before he was born. Oh Yeah it was snarlyor. Yeah. So then years later, my mom was a badass and got in trouble for like selling drugs. She needed a lawyer and met Corey's dad. Oh wow. He ended up being an asshole. They separated and then she met me and my full brother. Travis. d And he's four years older than me. And you're the baby. And I'm the baby ye. She called it after that. I think that was her favorite mistake. I don't think I was supposed to be. Okay. And how long were your mom and dad together? How did they meet? What did he do for a living? I just knowew he wass from New York. Yeah, he was a genius, went to Cornell at fourteen, skipped a bunch of grades, they met at a bar Oh, he's a Vunderkim. Yeah, he was next level smart and then met my mom at a bar in San Diego and I think was one of his first relationships ever like at twenty eight. Oh wow. Okay, so he's kind of a Totally, yeah. And your mother was wild. complepletely the opposite. He just had to hang on for dear life. Yeah, they worked out. I don't know, for a little bit. How long were they together? They were together for I wantanna say, like eight years. And what do he do for a living? He was a doctor. What kind He did a bunch. He was anesthesiologist and then worked in pain management An you of lost track I lost touch with him. He left when I was A teenager, he got remarried and had kids and decided that was Yeah, that was it. You've already had a lot of Yeah. a lot of good stuff. Yeah. Even since you've been on TV, he hasn't felt compelled to reach out. He's reached out like once or twice since that like ten year gap of not talking. When I was your age, I was probably at apex issues with my dad. look mayaybe there's time for things to change. And I think as I've gotten older, the anger I've had for him has dissipated and more until I guess an understanding of like just like a different time that he was grown up and the way that he was shown love as a kid and the way that that was passed on. like I feel like you can only show the love or give the love that you were shown as a child. you know Yeah. So I can kind of have compassion for him Because he was so brilliant in one category, does he have deficits and others? Yeah, ye he socially Yeah. Yeah, if he's twenty eight, he's meeting his first girlfriend, one hundred percent. Yeah. And he was at Cornell at fourteen. He's probably not having the le Ronan. there with Ronanar love Ron. anyndercan. Yeah. So what was life like in in Sanitas? It was amazing. It was like Veronica Morars, we had surf pee at school. You did. Oh yeah, we started school with surfing every day. You wore shorts to school? accents Yeah.. Yeah. Oh my Godd. that was allowed in my school. was it Shorts were definitely allowed. Shorts are not allowed in school. I guess they must have been. In public school, yeah, you're allowed to wear shorts. I know wei top, but they had to be two fingers thick So like why? Like that's so stupid. Well because people's cities are hanging out Yeah out. Tw straps he. Well, it doesn't hurt. a spaghetti strap. All right. about hats? Could you wear hats don't think we were allowed to wear hats. Yeah They draw a hard wot. Why was it hat? Why is hat's the thing I think it's a carryover from like it being rude to wear a hat indoors from like the thirties. Somehow it's a sign of disrespect. Do you think it's like a? Not at my school. Okay. Yeah. Where didd you guys go to school? I was in Georgia. In Georgia? you know, there's that southern politeeness so that maybe is part of it. We know about a restaurant where they didn't allow hats because they didn't want black customers. Yeah. so I think she's gra. I'm saying maybe that has something to do with it. I don't think it did. I'll ask because no student was like, what's the hat policy Yeah, I'm not going to that one. You're going to whatever school in whatever district you're born in. You're not like shopping. Where were you? in a suburb of Detroit. Okay. And how did you do socially? I was fine. I think I got by middle school was rough, right? I had to change middle schools. Yeah Okay, what happened in middle school? This fucking kid, stole my brother, Coreory's cigarettes and we smoked a cigarette. and then he told the whole school that like I tied him down and forced him to forced him to smoke. Yeah. Oh, that was the thing that they bullied me for. Oh, so funny. Yeah, it's very abstract. It's really abstract. But I think it turned a little gay. like I pinned him down and forced him to. That was a subtext. Yeah, that was a subtext. We're calling this a smoking infaction but it's a gayf. It's a gay infraction for sure. completely tortured And then I went to the new school in the new district and was like, I'm not going to be fucked with. I'm gonna to be the asshole. You made a pivot. No that was like the dick for a year. Okay, so you were Jason Doring from also. Yeah. I think everyone in Orange County might have been Jason Doring at some point. Yeah. I think you have to be. Can you tell me about the loneliness of that middle school when you're getting bullied in the self consciousness and you hear like the footsteps running and you're like, oh, fuck is this fight for me? Do you have all that stuff? I was terrorized and getting beat up every day and getting shot down with like BB guns and it was what you think of when you see school bully stuff on TV where you're like, that doesn't happen. And did you have any budies that were like, I'm so sorry this is happening? My brothers Cory and Travis, they were like having my back and being protective. They were my friends. When does Corey start getting mixed up with drugs He started using heroin at fourteen. At fourteen. How did that come into his purview I think just friends heroin was really popular in San Diego. by the time I graduated about eight people in my class had overdose. Really? Yeah. Wowers, do you attribute that to its proximity to Mexico? Yeah. I mean, we would go to Tijuana and get drugs when we were kids and go at lunch and get tacos and drugs and then go. I read that you would go lunch to Tijuana. Yeah, That's crazy to me. What How far is it? It was easier back then too to go back and forth through the border probablyrobably a thirty minute twenty minute drive, and then you just park your car at McDonald's and walk over and then walk back. Wow. Yeah. I had this girlfriend in high school who. kind of like showed me the ropes and was iconic and was like, we're going to go get all these stuff and I'm going to come bring it back. And I guess maybe they knew where to go and where to get it, but I just remember it being It' so easy. That is wild. That's dangerous. Yeah Ver. If I could have left my high school in a half an hour ofbind shit, that would have been would been m Yeah. Would you drink at lunch? Yeah, everything. Okay. Everything. I got it all out of my system by the time I was eighteen But you go to your dad's house on Father's D when you're thirteen to see him. You spend the night I can't believe this research. Oh And what happens? I get Paris Hilton, I get kidnapped in the middle of the night and sent to a wilderness camp.. It sounds so nice when you call it a wilderness camp. Yeah. So you had that full experience. Yeah, I got fully kidnapped. When it's happening is your dad shouting, I arrange this. you're going to a wilderness camp. You're going to be a great repeller when you're done with this. Don't worry. Butt worry. Yeah. I think he couldn't even look at me I think he couldn't look at me and I remember calling out for his help and being like, this is your chance to make it right. What were the behavioral things that had led up to that decision on their part? That was a nightmare kid. I think notot only was I starting to use substances at a really young age. I found out later that my mom, she was in cahoots with my dad about it. That was the biggest shock to me because I didn't think my mom would do that. But I think other than that, I mean, as a kid, I was crying out for attention, crying out for validation, screaming, fighting, biting. I literally bit kids all of elementary school. you were a biter. I was a bititer Oh wow. So I definitely had behavioral problems. You always hear people talking about the biter in their school, but you don't ever meet the the biter. Would you see like a little piece of part of someone's body being like, yeah, I'm gonna fucking sink my teeth into that. Do you remember f meditation or was it very impulsive? No, it's not keulated now. I think it would be like a kid would beat me on handball and beat me into me about it, and then I'd be like, oh I'm gonna fuck you up. push him and bite him rage. I would see red as a kid and I would go off and I got applauded for it too. My big brothers, they loved it. They would dare me. We love jackass growing up and all that stuff. so I'd get naked and go into like the vas and scream God where they would videotape me on their skateboard. Like So I was rewarded for being a little shit obnoxious. That was the way I got attention. That was the way I got validation, that was the way I felt like they loved me Yeah, you know. I feel bad because like I am judgemental of anyone who sends their kid to a wilderness camp, but also I imagine being the parent.ally. You're terrified, right? What do you do? They're like, they're gonna die. Yeah. one hundred percent. I'm gonna to walk in and I'm gonna go to wake them up for school and they're gonna to be dead. Soatever thing I'm gonna to choose is gonna be less bad than. Yeah. And I think my mom too, being a single mom dealing with a kid was using heroin. I think she was just like, I cannot deal with another nightmare. We have to reform this kid. get him away And was Cy getting into legal trouble and medical issue Y. And so she was really out She was deep in it and like working and trying to keep her head above water. It It was crazy I think you have the thing I had, right? whichich is like dad laughs, so dad's the villain and mom's an angel. No, my mom wasn't perfect either.. But I love her and I ride for her no matter what. You know like she's a badass and took care of us. And actually I. Beause you're like, o ones stuck around. and you're like, fuck, they got one stuck around. I really owe this one. You know, once you realize it's an option to leave. I was a moma's boy. I still am a moma's boy. Yeah, that's lovely. Yeah And So what was the wilderness camp? like alsoso, I'm sure that the literature that was shown to them, the pamphlet, probably looked really constructive. Oh yeah, it was like orange Gow. like something really like happy and constructive. I remember them thinking it would be a good thing and it was just chicken in a bag Rice in a bag, here's your tent, learn how to build it, go hike for like twelve hours, be alone. If I did something bad one day, like I wrote an SOS letter and like sent it around and ran away in the middle of the night and like made it with like the arts and crafts. I crafted an SOS letter and they put me in isolation in the middle of the mountain for like a day. They would do the classic thing where they knock you down to build you back up and think that their system is the right way to do it and just make you feel horrible about yourself. Did it have any positive impact on your behavior. No. I did the complete opposite. I rebelled twice as hard when I came out. I fucking was even more of a nightmare didnidn't trust anybody. Yeah. I fought with other kids. I don't know. I made me resilient maybe Sure. I think in all things but I don't even want to give them that. Yeah. you know, but like I guess every bad thing that has happened to me or every hardship I've gone through, I have learned something from that I think. It's one more thing you're like, well, I survived that thing. Yeah. proroof of survival. I exact I lived and I'm past that. I don't subscribe to what they did. That was another common thing in my high school was like people went to Juvy and rehabs and Utah like all these crazy places that we werere doing way worship. I was molested at a regular summer camp, not at that camp. Yeah, yeah, ye yeah. Which you have really helped me with, by the way. Have I? Well, just the way that you talk about it, I've had a therapist tell me a hundred times, It's not your fault, it's not your fault And when you talk, I think it was on Anna Kendrick's podcast or another podcast, you talked about No matter how many times people can say that you felt like you were an active participant. There was a curiosity there. Yeah, there's so many culpability you're aware of. Mine was I wanted this go cart. You know, like I knew I should not be there. Yeah. I really wanted this go cart I was being promised that I could buy it for a very suspicious buy it You still had to buy it. You still to buy it? Oh get it for free. No no,. It was bad deal. thing was worth like five hundred dollars, but I was gonna be able to buy it for a hundred. I had a whole plan I was gonna mow this many grasses and yeayact. It is fucking gruesome But I got to tell you man, I've had a new light shone on that whole experience. We had this expert who teaches at Johns Hopkins and she's the head of this program that does nothing but study child sexual abuse. And she's like seventy percent of seexual abusees by other . And so although this dude was way older than me, he also wasn't eighteen. Now I don't know. L I used to have this guilt of like, fuck I should have turned him in. I don't know how many people he fucked with. But now after talking to her, I'm like, I don't know that he ever did. I don't know. Right. Like it might have just been this weird fucking thing. I don't know if he was in pedophile or what. I get that that your mind goes to like not being able to like put it together, piece it together what it actually was. Yeah. I think for so long, I felt like Well I wanted it Yeah And like my therapist could be like, well, you're in your twenties and would you hook up with a ten year old? And I'm like, fuck no. Right. But it didn't matter. But when I heard you talk about that and the way that you had those conflicting thoughts about it because you wanted that thing and you were looking for that thing that you felt so much guilt and sham and you look back at little Dax and L Lucas and be like Yeah, but of course you did. You want me go f. Yes I did. I did ignore my spitey sense. one hundred percent. I violated my body telling me something And also yeah, I was a like little kid who wanted to go cart. and I can forgive that. I kindt just pretend that I didn't get any signals. That was the part that was corrosive to me. Yeah. It like I knew there was some part of me that played a role right? That's what I felt. Yeah. I think that's where the real guilt is. I think people miss it who it hasn't happened too. I think so too. and I don't know if you did this, my go to was make a joke about it. being like, how could I not have been molested or I was like a sluttyy little ten year old. like that was my joke that I would go to to my You were irresistible. I was irresistible. And my therapist is like, you have to stop doing this. You cannot use that as a coping mechanism.. It's weird medical professional tell me it a hundred times, but hearing you talk about that in that interview really, really, really, really It's just res Really happy. Yeah Stay tuned for more arms Yeah We are supported by All state Checking All state first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking that your keys are actually in your hand before you close the car door Have you ever sit in a parking lot full of sun staring at your keys sitting right there on the seat four inches away and completely useless to you. It's a very specific kind of humbling. Yeah Checking first is a good idea. So check All state first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds and for fast, reliable help when you need it, add an all state roadside plan today. You're in good hands with All state. Potential savings vary insurance and roadside assistance plans are subject to terms conditions and availability, inssurance provided by All state North American insurance company, Northbrook, Illinois, Radside assistance plans provided by All State Motor Club, Incorporated and All state affiliate Let's talk about a condition many people haven't heard of, and it turns out it's more common than you'd think Peron's Dase or PD for short PD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis. This can cause a curve with a bump during an erection and for some men, lead to pain during intimacy and may impact mental health. It may also lead to anger and frustration, depression, lowered self esteem, and even withdrawal from sexual activity and physical intimacy Because of this, some men could feel embarrassed or reluctant to talk about PD. The actual cause of PD isn't always known. In some cases, it may be linked to a minor injury or repeated injuries during sex or other physical activity. The good news is PD is treatable. If you notice a curve with a bump, a trusted urology specialist can help diagnose it and walk you through your options including non surgical treatment. To learn more about Peroni's disease, visit talkbpd. com This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. We've talked before about Rob building our website on Squarespace, and I bring it up again because it's a perfect example of what they do well. Rob had all the pieces, the content, the vision, the ideas, but he needed something to actually take all that and make it public facing. in Squarespace was that bridge? 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Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you Helixleep dot com slash armchair It's funny and say that though, isn' it true? There's a power in watching someone else process something that can get through to you or if it's being directed at me, it can't. I remember there was a moment where Monica is getting interviewed by a therapist. or hypnotist And she was telling the story And I had seen her tell it a million times. And the therapist said, I don't know why you're smiling. Yeah, it was Gabr mate. ye. was Gaba course it was. Yeah, he said, why are you smiling? He said, Is it funny? And I was like, No. I mean, I was telling like a sad story or something. I don't remember what I was saying, but I said no. and then he was like, Wh are you smiling? And then It wasn't rhetorical. He was really asking. I was like, I guess because I'm uncomfortable. And you really had to start like Breaking it Baking I was doing it. I did it earlier too. All right. get itang., I get it. I do it. It's almost like you want the other you're signaling like I'm good. I'm good. Don't feel bad. I want tona make you comfortable so you don't feel like uncomfortable with my weird shit. With this awkward story telling you one hundred percent. Yeah. Vulnerable, but not too vulnerable so that you then feel uncomfortable. Yeah Wh we do that? No. Well analist but be this way and I'm apologetic that I am and then I'm gonna try to make as light as possible so we can all. But you're saying when that happened, you noticed When it happened to you. Yeah, you realize you did it. And someone wasn't challenging me on why I was smiling. L I might have got defensive with that question or made up some on the spot justification But I just was watching my sweet friend smile at something that really didn't warrant smiling. And I thought, well, how sad on top of sad that that is happening? And then I was like, yeah, and I do that too. Everyone does it. I think so. What age do you get fixated on acting? Right after I got jumped I did like little things as a kid and I would hide it, you know, I did awards commercial and then fucking kids found it in high school. Oh Oh God. W Cound W dude. Oh. Oh my God. I tried to hide it from the whole hold hold Vener awards. Oh not. Y I got that later. I got that later in life. We all have it.ember that was HPV. But No, it was the compound W for Warts on your fingers. Oh. Yeah. Do you remember when you got the roll your pump? you're also like, this is fucking career suicide for my high school? Yeah. I remember feeling both of those things and just really trying to hide it. and I was hiding like doing plays and stuff in in the town over becausecause gay. Yeah, you were obviously you had a real secret A lot of secrets. They're corrosive. You said you have a cousin that came out gay and always knew and you had some jealousy of that. Yeah And then I guess that's interesting. It should be obvious there's every version of everything on planet Earth, but I'm so used to hearing gay folks say like, oh yeah, I always knew. And I kind of am interested in the notion that it could be a slower burn I think honestly, a lot of it, like my first sexual experiences was I started to talk about molestation so much Be being molested by guys. So there was a lot of that wrapped up into it. So I really loved these girlfriends I had. I was like obsessed with them. I was obsessed with love from a very young age. and I was so happy to just like be sexual and be physical and be in love with these girls And if any kind of thought, like that would go through my mind. I would justify it with like, well, I was molested though. That's like ye some residual trauma from that. one hundred percent. I don't know if I blacked out before that of having that awareness, but I really don't think I did. I really think that any kind of inkling or curiosity or suspicion of it was then being like, but you got molested that's why of course you feel that right sometimes, but like you love your girlfriend, you love your girlfriend. And a part of me really did. Yeah. Yeah. And a part of me said something on some podcasts where I pissed people off where I said like I'm ten percent straight or something. said because like every once in a while I do have sex with girls. I know I'm pretty damn gay. You know, like I'm pretty gay. Do you watch English teacher? I've watched English teacher. Yeah. I love it so much funny. I think it's the funnest show I ever so funny. But in the second season, he goes and he's around either his sister or his female friend's fiance And the guy is presenting is very, very gay, But he's saying he's bi at some point. he confronts them. I don't know if you saw this scene. He's like I don't know, man, you're reading very gay to me. Like what percentage and the guy' like Well, I'm ninety percent gay and ten percent bi. And he goes So you're five percent straight. whatever the math was. Maybe that's where I got it from. literally leaked into my interview he doesn't math further. Well, if you're ten percent, really five percent bad about that That's so crazy. It's just like everyone needs these boxes. like Yeah, you need them someone in. Yeah, let's T do I know someone like this and it's all heartbreaking. This is all the byproduct of fucking being shit on and victimized. So it's like There is a period for some gay dudes where they feel like the easier softer path is to say I'm bi. at least, right? By now gay later. That's like a saying from the nineties when kids would first come out as bi And so just stup by now gayl. It's pretty good. I kindind of like it Yeah.'slid. Youan to get a tattooed on it. Yeah, yeah Luas likes it. I like g, yeah. Oh my God. I never heard that. I've never heard it either I think because in the nineties people were starting to really identify as b It new thing and people were like, byy now, gay later. For those people who had that specific thing where they were just gay, but they were pretending to be bi to lessen the blow to everyone around them They then realize I was being dishonest with myself. I'm one hundred percent gay. So they're hearing your story and it's very easy for them to project. Oh, he's still trying to preserve he's got ten percent of a toehold in this shame. that's why he's saying that. Yeah. I know. But that's not anyone. I mean, but maybe though, I feel like there was a part of me that was preserving it. at first, when I first started experimenting guys, I hooked up with my neighbor, but then after that, I was like, okay, I'm only gonna hook up with couples and it was a guy and a girl and that will be less, you know It was like addiction stuff. No one Totally defefinitely it was. Here's my fake roadblock. It won't get worse. Exactly. compartmentalize it Well, that's another thing I wanted to talk about is San Diego is a real military town. yeah And I'm imagining that it kind of compounds the masculine vibe a little bit like the hypermasculine vibe. one hundred percent. there's a lot of that. It's a bro culture out there That's where the Navy SELals are based, right? Yeah. There's a lot of them going around. I think especially when your dad leaves and you don't have like that male figure in your household. I had a step dad that was around for a little bit, but to look at that as what masculinity is as a teenager and having that around you and being like, oh, I have to be that. Yeah is probably why I was such an asshole when I went to my new school is like trying to emulate these marines that were walking around my town because I'm like, this is what it means to be a man and to not be fucked with. Yeah. You know Th guys are not getting beat up in the hallway. No these two No, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're on grrinder though Yeah, they sure are. I see these depicted in movies and it always breaks my heart. I think the maybe saddest thing that can happen to young gay boys is they end up having a secret relationship And then like the toxic nature of the secrecy ends up being so cruel to one another ' they're both hiding. And that seems to me to be the heartbreakingest part. Like you can't even have the beautiful fun, loving fling Did you have any of those situations? one hundred percent. I suuper in love with my neighbor, the first guy I'd ever been with was with him for three years. hiding it for a year from everybody And it was Taring him down. that I had to finally It was after a little mermaid audition that I came out to everybody That's a good time to do it. Itreat time to do it, right? I started crying in the audition because they're like, tellell us the secret that you have. And I realized that this secret that was so fun at first and like made it so hot. like I think it's really sexy to have a secret until it's not until its just like eats you When it's your identity. D you want to be out loud about it and you didn't know did. He did He was really kind and really considerate and veryied like when you're ready, it's whatever. But then I think after a year he was like, dude, come on, you got to come clean. Yeah. Was the pressure compounded by all these older brothers? I can't imagine that would help. I gott to give it to my brothers. They cool and pretty artsy, even though they beat me up, there was still like that side of them that didn't give a shit about that. But if I'm being honest, I think a lot of it came from Hollywood and the industry of being like do not come out because you're only going to play gay. you're only going to be seen as the gay Yeah and that was true. It was I think' still a little bit true. I think it's definitely still I mean, look, we have like Jonathan Bailey now who's everyveryone's in love with and rightfully so, but like there is still resistance met with like can Lucas play a leading guy, you know? Yeah. It's interesting. I know a very, very famous adored male actor who I know is gay And I've never heard him say it in public. And he plays a lot of sexy hetro dudes. And I do wonder like Is he telling anyone because of that. And then also if people knew would that impact? You never know, like I don't know when that time has come. I remember when Anne Hiche was in the movie with Harrison Ford and she had just come out and people were like What? How am I gonna to buy into that? She's in love with Harrison, but forget the age gu right. That wasn't ar Wh cares about that? That's fine. He's out It's norm. That makes sense. But what about her being lesbian? I guess that's the only thing like I don't love the idea that People can't play other people. I hate it. That's bullshit The only time I was ever defensive of it is I was like when straight dudes were getting cast as famous gay characters, I was like Well, yo, if you're not going to give them the fucking straight roll right Yeah cannot take the ro. There's going to be none left. That did feel uniquely unfair to. Yeah. I agree with you on that part. I did feel that way, but with every other scenario, I get really territorial and defensive of people when they come from them. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's bullshit. Let's go through the timeline of starting to work. age were you? I think I was like twenty or twenty one when I did American Vandal. That was good. It was a recurring role on a Netflix show that people liked And then I did this kid show Claudia actually wasaged at the same time or the year before that. That's where I met Claudia. Cusku's one of the best people of all time. Yeah. We love her so much. and then I think it was a year or two after that I twenty two, twenty three. I reach out to Sam Levinson because I saw another happy day It reminded me of my family. I wrote this long letter. He says that he's doing this movie in New Orleans right now. And I like convince a New Orleans agent I lie to them and say I live in New Orleans. Lal hires, local hires. save a couple bucks for production. I meet him. I lie. I get on a plane. I work with him And then a year later, he put me in euphoria. So that's where it really all. Becauseuse the part of the story I really want to learn about, you were getting accused of queerbaiting. Yeah Why would you be accused? Yeah, so they thought you were straight in acting What did they think? They were like you're taking gay roles and you're straight There we go. Yeah. Okay. ye. And you're like, But I love Britney Spears and I'm making out with men. Eact Eact. It was obviously that's an online thing. Yeah. So when do you become aware of it immmediately. You're checking your Instagram and your Twitter and you're getting DMs all the time. And what kind of things would people say? Just like you're a piece of shit. How dare you take, you know? And I'm just like reading them. And at first it's funny and I'm like, God, you guys have no idea. And then it starts to really piss you off. I had this like viral tweet moment where someone said like I hate him and I hate his fucking face and I hate that he takes roles from gay people And I've wrote something, I think I was unk when I wrote it but I wrote like You don't know my alphabet or something like that. Yeah. And then he's like, well, inform us. And then I just wrote no with a heart. and people liked it, I guess. And I think that they were like good for him for now feeling like he has to disclaim what he is to some troll on the internet. Again, it's one of these things where you really can't ever win You can't ever win. then the next year you get married to a guy on the Kardashians and then they fucking hate your guts. So it's just like You cannot go all the way with it. it's too I hate that. Oh my go. So how much was it a you And how did you decide to then be public about it? And was it motivated by that, like to shut these people up? Maybe there was some defiance in me to be like I'm going to push back and be so on your fucking face about it. But then another part of me was in a weird area where I got manic and married a stranger after a couple of weeks of knowing them. W.. Okay so we need to' a lot. And again, this would be fun for you because I know when I'm inside of crisis things I just am convinced everyone knows about it. So one thing is like I didn't know about the viral moment with the director. Oh, great. I like. I didn't know about that. I't you didn't know about love. Ryan Hansen, he knows everything course's I'm interviewing him on Wedesday, I'm afraid to talk to him. I don't want to room. He's like, Oh yeah. he had that like really cool thing where he posted Will you tell this happen I know you're sick of it. I'm just truly a lot of people have no clue. Until now. I love that you guys don't know. I mean, it's great.. Basically it was like the first audition during COVID, it was a Zoom. Everyone turns their cameras off. It goes quiet. They're like, you ready to go? The director forgot to mute his microphone. so he's like with his wife or somebody he's like Oh God, look at this poor actor in this shitty apartment I didn't sayy this tiny apartment with a TV and a bed and a sofa in the same room as each other. And then I was just like, oh, your mic's still on. Uu Really quick. Yeah That's a decision. You've made a choice. You're a real actor because you're like, I can have pretend I didn't hear this Yeah. and he'll never know Or maybe I'll not you do not say it though. But I think a lot of people would have just pretended it. Yeah. So I love o So what did you say exactly? I was like, I know that it's a shitty apartment, but if you get me this job, I'll get a better apartment. Yeah, that's great. Great. And it was true. I loveved the apartment. It was a cute little studio apartment down the road And then I made it as a part of like an improv of the scene. like I incorporated it. Maybe I probably did it a little too much. Sureed it. I was like, yeah, you can come back to my tiny apartment later. L start using it and then shitold. If you hadn't called him out and then you did the audition and you said tiny apartment in the audition he would have his face would have caught on fire. Yeah. That's the real. That was probably the smart moveie Yeah. Okay, so you got the role? No. No, I didn't get the role. but There's a happy ending. Okay. The next audition It was white Lotus. Come on ye, you got ro. So if I got that one I wouldn't have been done white Lotus and then After a night of fun during White Lotus, a couple months later, I decided to post the video. Oh, because you had recorded it? Well, we had to record it on our end You got. Oh yeah. We had to be like our cinematographer and our editor and this it was like so annoying. Oh my God. And so I posted it and woke up to a hundred calls and like one hundred thousand requests. It was very viral. It was really viral. W. Ryan Hansen saw it. He knew the whole story. Yeah. He loved it by the time. it. Oh the way he handled it was so cool When that video happened, I was like a champion for actors, right? Or a month And then the month later, I was a fucking liar I was the kid who conned a video with a director to get sympathy to get on white lotus. Oh, that was the narrative they That was the next narrative. Wait How could you have posib manipulated the guy into talking about released a statement apologizing. I'm like, how could I pull this up Like that's the greatest marketing ever It's insane what people believe versus the real things they refuse to believe. L the chasm between what's beingraised ignored about objective reality and then embraced about fucking conspiracies is mind blowown. It's insane. just like the back and forth of like people loving me and saying I'm a hero to being like this guy is a fucking piece of shit And we hate him And the ride you're on. Yeah it hijacks your dopamine system. evenven if you're not prone to mania, it can put you there Oh yeah. what was happening like emotionally? I heard you say like, it really suck. I had a moment as an actor. I had some pop, I was on some shit and then I kind of didn't have that. And then I had this moment as like, I don't know what you would even call that. Like a public face p face And you said like this feels like a fifteen minutes of fame thing, which I don't like. It probably was also so complicated. I would have loved being a hero for a moment Yeah would would be. But even that is like not the right messaging to give somebody. I think that can fuck you up too. Yeah. It's fraudulent. It's not real. None of this is fucking real Yeah. and it doesn't matter. But I think I was just so narcissistic at that time and like so obsessed with what everyone was saying and so focused on myself. H not to. It's hard not to. And then you're like, o, Jesus, now I'm just famous for this thing. No one's ever gonna to take me seriously. R an actor Well, it's like all that stuff takes precedent of all the hard work that I' put in for a decade that I was really trying to focus on that. And suddenly it's just only the headlines that people know you from. So I rewatched a bunch of your scenes on White Lotus today. You're so fucking great on that dude' So great on that You have like a real unique point of view as that character. Yeah, yeahice Yeah. Watching Jennifer Coolidge and Muray Bartlett and Moy Shannon on set, That's like the best comedy lesson. They are unreal, The coolest people ever. and we got so close on that show. Th guys were all living at that four seasons and we were four seasons. During COVID? During COVID, no one lived there, but us And like the expectation wasn't there yet. We didn't know what it was gonna be. Yeah. It wass just like, oh, this fun show, but then it's the biggest show. I just learned so much from them about I think what I was talking about with Doug Lyman too actually is like not going in with a plan If not being like I'm a good student and I'm prepared and look at like all the choices I made last night, that doesn't fucking matter. You're going to find something better on a day that's fresh. The camera loves that. And so just watching them every take do something different As you know, a twenty five year old green actor was like, Oh, you can do that. You're allowed to go outside of this parameter. tryry a bunch of shit and it's okay if you eat shit because they won't use it. Yeah. maybe they will. May Well you were protected by Mike White who has an impeccable Amazing taste. Yeah.. Perfect. Yeah Did you? hang with him a bit? Oh, yeah. I love Mike. He's the best. Yeah, he's a very fascinating dude. The most fascinating smart guy I've ever met, I think. Disarming too. You're like, hold on, thats guy's the showrunner. one hundred percent. Yeah, ye I know. these guys have figured out. that's I was just gonna to say, I'm like, I want to like makeake a show, be a director, a writer, go to fucking Survivor in the Amazing race and come back to HBO. Yeah. right That's so cool. He just does whatever the fuck he wants to do and go like when do I most want to be in another I think I'm gonna go to the branch. A Let these notes on me, can I read them? No, Aolutely this k. No. I'm trying to think of something terrif. Why do you want to do it? I can tell this has happened a couple times that you expect people to think that. You expect people to not like you or to have an idea about you. Well I think I get it. I go in humiliate myself or make fun of myself before they can beat me. Yeah. It's your armor. Yeah, I expect it. But it's not happening. Over here anyway. I like you. I liked you when I met you in Austin. I have nothing but good feelings about you. Okay, Fargo Oh How do you get that role? Walk me through getting that role. I was in London. I self tap myself for I think every I don't know if you experience this as an actor where They would have you audition for the guy. They love you They're like, he's just not Right, but we're going to bring him back for this one and then this one. like that was the trajectory of every single euphoria, white lotus. argo you every single time. It's like they bring me in for something else and they don't know what to do with me. But they're intrigued. They're intrigued. Yeah. That like great. Yeah, there's something there. And I think that was another scenario where I was like, I love this show. I want to work with Noah Holly. I'm just going to keep auditioning and keep saying tapes until he says yes. And so that character was obviously written you auditioned for that. Yeah. It's not like he had seen you trying all these other characters and they' like, Oh, let's put actually, I think in that one, I think I tried out for like Joe Cy's role and another guy and I got close and then I think he was like Just give him that one. I think it was I think it was that situation on that one. Oh my God, are you great' great. Thank you. Wait, did you say you a show on Netflix? Yeah I don't remember. I'm in the London season I love that one. American that gets heat on. Oh you got peat? Ohr Oh S me. No I cant want to spoil it. I don't wantan to spoil it. it's already been spoiled. He gets peat on. Well He got shit on his. What happens to that show? I got obsessed with that show like last year, I think. and every time I would come into the fact check, I was like, okay so I'm watching you a show on Netflix ' it And I prefer that she said I'm watching a show on Netflix called You, but she refused to do that and she would always goone,'m watching you. That happened a lot. on Netfl. Ern Bergman, What' her name? B Borgenberg. Oh oh what's her name from Fox News? Lauren Bergman. No, no, no. Laurur Laur In. Laura Ingrol You've seen Netclip right? you. I don't have a show on. What What does we talkking about so stupid? I'm on a show on Netflix. What? C you? Cold you? It's worth real diabetes, there was measles. Oh a measles. We didn't do a show on measles. We did do a show on measles. Oh my God, I God that's so far you. Yeah. Okay.y, I love that show. Okay, so you come off Fargo. Yeah. I want to know how we get to the marriage on the Kardashians, which is a spectacular thing to be. I know. I'm sure it's loaded IDB credit, honestly. You're gonna be on your death bed one day as we all will be And I promise you, you're going to be like, I'm so glad I got married on the Kardashians. Like fuck it man,'s one trip on planet Earth. I think it's iconic. I think it's so funny. It's so stranger than fiction. If you wrote that down on a piece of paper, like a script in my life, I would be like, there's no way that's going to happen. Well What happened? I don't even. So let's just talk about you met Chris I met this dude. I met this guy. Where were you went mentally when you met? Not great. Okay, what version of not great? Long story short is I was in another relationship. that had ended. I was devastated completely horrible It screwed me up so bad that so embarrassing, I don't give a sh. I was crying on set And they called my reps and they were like, this kid keeps crying on set. Like is he okay? I Vargo No, it was on You were shwn? No, it was on the show called Dead Boy Detectives that I was on Netflix. Yeah, it's better yeah. Yeah I was like in a cat prosthetic crying. Okay Yeah you could have pointed a lot of fingers at the. I go. I love that show though.'s the best show ever. Best show ever. St, you're in a cat outfit against the cat king. So I'm crying. someone had called my people, My people were like, what is wrong with you? And then I started crying with them and I was like, no one loves me. I'm gonna die alone. This career doesn't matter nothing. That was like a real existential place of like nothing thing matters and I just want to be in love. They were like, you need to go somewhere So they made me check into a place. they wouldn't give me another audition. Oh wow. until I checked very ethical reps. 'cause they were like, you're depressed. And in this episode, I fired him onene of the biggest mistakes I' ever made. You can mend that There's chances. Yeah, yeah, that's totally salvageable. I go to this place They put me on The most insane cocktail medications, they give me my diagnosis that I have borderline personality disorder. How quick does it take them to determine that couple weeks and then I was fighting them on it, still fight them on it. Yeah. We'll get back to listen to our episode on Borderline personnel. No, I need to listen to that one It's very interesting. It's incredible. I'm so glad we did it And we've run into people in real life, this waitress came up to me and was like, you just can't imagine how much I appreciate that episode. Like I battle this thing. And I was like, yeah, dude, it's like everything else. It's just one more thing that someone's like fucking contending with. It really shined a wonderful light on it all. becausea if we were just like, o, BDP, it's scary. Yeah, I have the same thing. I resisted it and I was like we over aathologize everybody and like put this thing on them and that's who you are and you have this albatross around your neck. So I thought with it a lot. And I have a lot of people in my life who would be like you one hundred percent have it. And I think especially that saw me in that period would be like without a doubt. Yeah So they put me on these meds, was not the right meds. They overmedicated me. And I was really not myself. I was straining my hair, changing all my clothes, just being manic I really was Yeah and I umntethered. Yeah. and I meet Chris. It's like, This whirlwind romance, that's moving at the speed of light, every date is a string cartet. It gorgeous. I didn't know of him until today. Yeah. He's fucking gorgeous. He's got an accent. He's also dialed in the Kardashian world. That's fun, especially if I'm twenty nine one hundred percent. I'm like, this is very fun. It was fun and it was really that feeling that I was searching for so long or what I thought it was of like Being lovable and having someone that did these grand gestures of love, so when he proposed really early on, I said, Yeahah, how quickly couple of months Pus Okay, a couple hours. No couple weeksple wee Cle weeks. Is there any voice in your head going like, we know Statistically the two wee. Engagements generally. Like was there any rational things poking holes? There was some rationale going on in my brain, but I think I was so wounded from that last relationship and wanted to feel loved so bad and wanted to be like fuck it, it's bold to be in love. It's brave. you stop protecting your heart. just go with it. But I think that there was a part of my head that was like, this is too fast. And there's an illusion that marriage is a turnurnkey mooring of yourself to something. Like there is some idea that it's going to be stability, but it's not at all stability. Not at all. And I've never had any model of a marriage that was shown to me that was stable in my life. So I had no idea what that was. Yeah. And if you're manic, I mean, that's just like dopamine you saying, yes, that makes sotal sense. This guy's a fucking babe. He's got his own thing going When is it proposed? Well, let's do this marriage on the Kardashian show. So Basically, I'd always talked about how I love Shinai Twain. We love us too. I mean, obsessed. I wrote in my journal as a kid, like still thet one is gonna to be in my marriage song. onncece I beat her on American Idol, I would lie to my journal all the time and say crazy shit, but I love Shani Twain. And so then a couple weeks after the proposal, he's like, we gota get married this weekend What? No. I thought it was gonna be like a long proposal.. Yeah. And he's like, just trust me on it Okay, bigig surprise. Big surprise And your're manic, you love surprise love surprises. I'm like, let me jump out of an airplane. Let's fucking go. throw me out of a moving car. Sight Twain was in Vegas that weekend So Shinai Twain. No way Hold on a second. I need more of the pieces. She's performing in Vegas. you guys are going to go to Vegas. It was that weekend. She had a show there. And the Kardashians were going to be there attending the show and filming. No, Kim is his best friend and doing his her hair and she was her hook upp with Shanaya. So they had planned this whole thing and I go to Buffalo Bills, which is so weird. It's where I went every year as like an eleven, twelve year old, thirteen year old birthday party. My mom loved to gamble. That was our treat was we take an RV and go to this place And I walk in and it's just Kim and Chris and Shinah Twain Do you start you really lose my fking shit Sobbing Yeah sobbing. And how did she handle it probably pretty well? She was great. Yeah. It thoughtful. was that buuff? It was really ye it was thoughtful. I think that was a coincidental thing actually. She just was playing that night at Buffalo. But maybe we'll go with it was thoughtful. Yeah. We'll go with it was really thought out. Or s. No, But I mean, the fact that they pulled that off is insane. That literally was a dream come true By the way, speaking as a love addict, like I understand sex and love addiction. I get one hundred percent.'s best my addiction. Yeah. Yeah lost other stuff and became addicted to sex and love. Yeah. one hundred percent. Yeah ye. It's tasty Keeps working until it doesn't, thenen you're scared. keep gessing you guys up, but I really will say that This show was what Mam me go to sllaw Really? Wha. Oh my go. That's soice. N to keep kissing your ass I will say. That's really amazing. Oh my Lord. Yeah. I think I'm gonna what? Rire. No, you gotta help people ye You gotta keep talking about this. Why would my instinct be like, I should stop this. Wait I did something that helps you, I should stop it Stay tuned for more arm chair experts If you dare This episode is brought to you by SoFI, the all in one finance app where you can bank, borrow, and invest all in one place. Let's talk bank accounts for a second. The average bank savings rate is zero point three nine percent in interest. You're earning pennies on your savings, but it does not have to be that way. With SFI high yield checking and savings, the money barely making moves sitting in your savings account can earn over eight times the national average savings rate with eligible direct deposit. No account or overdraft fees, which feels rare these days. You can get your paycheck up to two days early, perfect for getting ahead of a bill or grabbing what you need right when you need it. Plus, get up to a three hundred dollars welcome bonus when you sign up with eligible direct deposit Sign up for SFi checking and savings at soFi d. com slash armshare. SoFI checking and savings is offered through SoFi Bank NA member FDIC terms Apply This episode is sponsored by Better Help So Monica, here's something that really stuck with me. BetterHelp's twenty twenty six state of Stigma repeport surveyed two thousand Americans and revealed that eighty five percent of Americans believe getting support is wise. Yet seventy four percent say society discourages people from doing so. That's a huge gap. Most of us agree therapy is a good thing, but there's still something holding some people back from actually going Right. And I think that's where just talking about it normalizing it makes a difference. I mean, as you know, I'm I obsessed with thep I've been in it consistently for years and years and years and I have said this and I I shouldn't say it, but I do think if you're struggling and you've been struggling for a while and you haven't sought therapy, I judge you a little bit. Oh o Okay. Yeah, I know what I'm not. And I gott to go to therapy to work on that, you know, but also there are options for you. You can help yourself. And betteretter Help makes that first step easier. They match you with a licensed therapist based on your needs and with over thirty thousand therapists and twelve plus years of experience, they typically get the match right the first time Don't let stigma stand in the way of support. Start therapy with betterter Help. Sign up and get ten percent off at betterhelp dot com slash DAax. That's betterhlp dot com slash dAax This episode is brought to you by service Now I have my dream job. I get to talk to folks I admire like crazy and ask them virtually any question that I want to. I can't imagine a better way to spend my time, But even dream jobs have some not so dreamy parts, the stuff that gets in the way of the actual work. Now that's where serervice now's AI specialists come in They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy workk, they actually do it. Start to finish. case is closed, requests handled, no extra work for you. So you and your team can focus on what matters most, which for me is, are they obsessed with maail bodies on the same level as I am? They never are. To learn how to put AI to work for people Visit serviceNow. com. We get support from Sims Monica has been on a whole kick lately. I really have. When I get new skims, it is like Christmas. I get so excited. I love skims and they have skims cotton, which I literally reach for every single day. The fabric is really soft, but it also holds its shape. There's nothing worse than Sagsville. Exactly. It's really bad. Skims never does that Every single piece I've gotten from them still looks brand new after a lot of washes, there's no stretching, they lay perfectly and they support in all the right places. You're pretty particular about that stuff too, which is saying something. It is. and I'll just say it, the lightweight cotton thong is the best one I've ever tried. I also have their cotton jersey t shirt. I have it in black and I really love it. It Tight fit, but it is very flattering. Sometimes I don't love a tight fit shirt, but Skims just does everything right. I really don't know what they're doing over there. The t shirt is perfect for summer. It's a great summer shirt. G get yours, shop Skims cotton and all of my favorite pieces at skims dot comot After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcast in the survey and be sure to select Armchair experpert in the dropd down menu that follows Okay, so You meet her, That goes well. You criry, did she hug you? Yeah, of course, she. me. Kim is amazing. She's great, right? Everyone loves Kim. So generous, plan this whole thing, paid for everything, took care of my family. we're dancing with Usher. It's like a fucking fever dream of like what is happening? How is this my life? Your mom came? Yeah So she's having fun and she's gott to be nervous for you as well. No. My whole family and all my friends were very nervous for me and very concerned for me while trying to be there for me. and like he's happy. he's in love. You know got to be there for him. I was very depressed three weeks ago Right after you got out of a facility. Yeah. That's a lot. I think everyone was saying maybe we should just slow the brakes down a little bit and I was like Yeah love. You don't know you don't know what real love is. Yeah. Now this is where I can relate to. It's like on some level I have this story about me as an addict, which is like I generally didn't put people out. Like I pred myself on there. I didn't owe a bunch of people money. I didn't steal for my friends. stealing, but I thought relatively I had created less wreckage than a lot of the addicts I knew But what I'm not wanting to acknowledge is like that moment that I'm putting everyone in all the time. which is just like he seems like he's doing really good, but they know I missed my birthday party like a week ago, right O I didn't for Christmas. You underestimate the toll of that. like, Is he good? He's good? Okaykay. Yeah It's a lot. it's a lot. I actually had Claudia say to me at the barbecue we had the other day like I was really worried about you for a second. I was really worried we lost you for a minute. Yeah. And just to hear like how concerned all my friends were that loved me and adored me. What I would want for you is for you to hear, oh yeah, you're very loved. But what I would hear is like fuck I'm such a piece of shit. I've made these people worry. Like in the moment that I should be receiving the love, I would be se flagellating. For the first time in my life, I didn't go to that. I went to like God, I'm so lucky that I have these people who are my r or d who have been through me when I was a shitty friend to them and like went MIA and got married and didn't invite any of them. you bus That's true. That was't really charge of it. That's true. That's true. Thank you, Monica. But also what's so sad about this is like you're doing all this feel loved Yeah right. But you are loved. You have all these people that are there that are like hardcore there for you, but you can't see that. Yeah. Well, and it doesn't. The real love doesn't keep you high Exactly. I think it's how I feel about tension in life with acting it stself. It's like I wanted it so bad and then I got it and I didn't believe anyone And I couldn't accept it. I wanted love I couldn't accept it. It's sad. Yeah. We live all these paradoxes like, yeah, we want this thing. We're gonna feel a certain way. when we get this thing, we get that thing. It doesn't feel right. We didn't earn it, We don't deserve it. And then I feel worse and you're like, what is the goddamn solution? It's so fucking contradictory of like it doesn't make sense, but you're right. Like I had it in front of me the whole time and I was just searching out there for something I was We sabotage so much just as people in the search for this thing, you maybe let go of the real thing that's there And then there's just like, I don't know, you've always been a wild, fucking obnoxious dude and I was too. It's like the highs are high. You're chasing high highs. Yeah. You know, other people aren't chasing that moment with Shanah twenty. one hundred percent.. And it's like, you know, you so like I like it fucking hot and heavy, let's ye And I'll pay the But then you get it And then you're like What's next? A low low comes after a high drug stop working as all drugs stop working. You have to come down and then you're withdrawing and then you feel like, what am I going to fill it up with next? Yeah. Okay, so wow, the only thing I didn't get out of this. when do we start filming? The nuptials are on camera Yeah, I um That was a hm. Yeah. Okay, okay, you're right. Okay. I thought I was going to be talking about the engagement on the phone and then Yeah. And then you were in front of a film crew. Yeah What was happening in your body while you were Left my body, not there. Sudoilot. donon't remember what happened, blacked out and not even from drugs or alcohol, just wasn't there. I'll wake up when it's less intense. This seems a overwhelming. Remember I wrote my vows in my notes pad on my phone and then I got up there and they all deleted in my pocket. Oh my gosh And this is the only memory I have It' like a true nightmare honestly. Yeah it is my nightmare.' be like,, I got to wake up from me. Yeah. You gotta wake up, wake up, wake up. And I texted my friend, my one friend Phoebe, who I write with and I had her I proofread it before it went up and I said, Don't make it obvious, but txt me my vowels right now. and I tried to like play it cool. Oh my gosh. that I didn't have my vowels. God, it's so crazy. You can't write this. It's so insane. It's pretty craz. so It It's such a good chapter in the book of my life Yeah. So you wrote all this and I wrote this for attention premature memoir. No, I really like it. I like that you're like I prefer when I've read memoirs of people who don't have it all figured out and it's like we're midway through or whatever. we're on the journey. We're not reflecting on all the lessons we've learned, which I like too. No, I don't care about that. Let's just start with. I'm impressed you finished a memoir. do hardest thing I've ever done. Yeah. So I've been writing one for four years now. And when you're doing a memoir it's like There's just stuff hovering that you know, you're supposed to tellallenge. It's like I can't get motivated to tackle this chapter. What were the hardest ones? Obviously, I would imagine you admitting the diagnosis would be really hard. Yeah, that was really hard 's like that liability that you're marked with for the rest of your life. And same with the gay shit. It was like, okay, well then I'm that and now you're only seen as that. And I'm like now a gay actor and now I'm a gay actor with a personality disorder. Holy shit, let's not hire this kid. But then I was really inspired by, you know like Julia Fox and all these other ammazing people that are so honest about it and forthcoming. that was the shit that helped me talk about it and not feel so alone about it. And if we can't be honest we can't be authentic. What do we have Well again back to the death bed. Yeah. It's like, dude, are you gonna to lay there and be like, Well, I never was myself. and now it's over. That to me sounds like the nightmare of all nightmaare. Yeah. I'd way rather been like, No, I was me out loud and a lot of people didn't like it, but I found the people that do like it. and that's preferred in my opinion. Yeah, it was that that really inspired this book. I think the most Dishonest part of the book is the title of the book really because I didn't really write it for attention. That's the title I wrote this for attention. Yeah it's a good title. I love the title. The idea came the week that I got the divorce My grandma died and I'm getting confused online as Nazi because there was a Nazi influencer named Lucas Gage with a C. Oh no They hits her And seeing my dad for the first time in five or ten years. so I'm like This is the most insane week of my life and all this noise. You hadn't seen your dad and then you had to see him. I immediately after getting divorced Yes, and with his mom dying. Oh' a few. Yeah. Luc this is And while I'm doing it, I'm checking Twitter to see what a cheater I am or that I'm a Nazi now and I'm like, holy fuck, what have I done with my life? Yeah And why do I care And why am I eating into this like disgusting attention well of like what people that I don't know about me think about. Why am I like this? Why am I like this? Yeah Yeah. That was. That's why it started. That was the whole. And that was going to be the intro of the book and it end up being the conclusion book by the time I was finished, but that was where it started. So for the people who didn't listen to our BDP episode, explain to us what they told you. of what borderline personality. How me explain it to you Not well. If you can feel any resistance that I have about it or any kind of angs when I'm talking about it, it's more about place that I went to, they were just like, you're splitting. which if you don't know splitting is, it's like You can't see the gray in and anything. It's like either you're the love of my life or if you fuck me over, I want you dead and I never want to talk to you again. There's a bunch of weird little sayings to describe BDP. They're either at your feet or your neck. Y. Right? Thates one I just heard therapist re Yeah. That's exactly is still down is like we have a volatile reactive reactions to emotions, I think, and we genuinely a lot of times put a lot of codependence and importance on one person, which they call like your favorite person. And if that person is the orbit of your whole entire world. and just all relationships are very unstable and intense. Another thing that I left out of why I went there is I got really angry when I was having these crying spells and I punched my hand through a window. I to get stitches. That turned into He's suicidal. Yeah, like a fifty one, fifty situation. one hundred percent. So it was like self harm. That was the thing I kept on saying to this facility. you know, they're like out of the nine traits of it, you have all nine. and I'm like, that says I'm suicidal. I don't have that. And they're like, you do. Oh. Yeahah, I don't like that So it's not that I am pissed off about. the diagnosis so much, I'm pissed off about the way that they went about it. The delivery system of Yeah. I don't like they were listening to you. No. Yeah. I don't feel like that. same thing I feel about all these places that were supposed to help kids. It's like you take these vulnerable people, these vulnerable people that are dealing with these intense emotions and stamp them with a label and throw a bunch of drugs at them And that's it. Yeah, yeah. And then tough love them. I don't like it. Yeah. But just a counterpoint. I will say it's also common for someone to go into their first AA meeting There's like twelve steps, right? And one of them says, God. like I'm out. It's like, okay, you could be out over the one step or you might be able to like, go, o these other eleven are pretty salient. So similarly, it's like, yeah, they fucked that up, but maybe they were right about a lot of got se of it. I think a lot of the traits were' right. The one I've experienced with people who have not self identified as that to me, but I have had a few different friendships where It does seem like they think I am better than I am likeike supernatural, right? They're looking at me like I have some kind of answer to something profound You find out with your friends that have that I think have had it. I've felt people idolize me and then I have felt what seemed to me be like these barrage of little tests that keep mounting up. It's like, well, then, are you gonna meet me here? There's so much weight to it all night. Just become self conscious of the fact theseese are tests that I'm not passing and it feels like a test. And then I have been accused by a good friend of like you're trying to destroy me. And I'm like, what does that even mean? That's not even something someone could do? Like what you mean destroy you? Like I'm not hurting you. I'm not around your plate. I think that' like higher. Yeah, like that's fantastical that I can destroy you just the premise of it. Yeah. Also I'm not. and I love you right. So I've had that personal experience No Did I say Sometimes I like that. You did like me a lot more and you like me now, but I think it was all within the round. the door with r. I think that's a good way of putting it, There is a real Jacqueline hide situation going on with it. Yeah, so what I love and this show has been this great gift to us. Again, I keep bring this up, but it was so profound. We interviewed dude a couple weeks ago who's schizophrenic and tried to kill his dad. It's like we read a lot about schizophrenics or schizophrenic episodes and what happens, but it's never from the person who's experiencing it. And I'm like, I'm so genuinely curious. Y. That's amazing. Yeah So can you relate to those highs and lows of things someone's really special and then one hundred percent. Yeah. L they are my world, the most important thing The most codependent, they're my life. they're everything to me. The validation, their acceptance, it's only important if it's coming from them. Your worth is connected to the My whole entire worth. so much so that I self abandon myself in my work and everything else and all the important and other things in my aspect, like family and friends and become a shit brother, a shit son, a shit friend because that is so important That's the unifying aspect of all of these things. Yeah, which is you look at addiction and you go, okay, the addict is their life through this substance. Yeah. The codependent in the system is also escaping their life by focusing on the addict's life. And then this condition is escaped like it's funny that we got all these labels for these conditions, but it's like we're all trying to fuck off on all the shit we don't want to deal with and we'll find a road to do it. obsession Where it's acting like some are really bad and some aren't and some are personality disorders and some are this and it's like Nice thing of humans like if they find something that will distract them from the shit that drives them nuts, it's going to be an appealing option. No is there any voice you're smart? So is there any voice while while that kind of ramp up obsession' happening about the person? Are there any bells going off? It's like, you're doing it Now, now, but not before No. ' it feels good. feeleels good. You get a high from it and I don't party anymore, so that's my high. Yeah. But I have to catch myself. as much as I hated it, I did this thing called Dialectical behavioral Thrapy. Yeah I've heard about this. Fucking hated it so much. It just feels like elementary weird work of like checking in with your senses and holding ice cubes if you're upset or really taking inventory about what's going on and it feels like So blame when you're doing it, but then I do it in life now. So I see the merit in it. I check myself and I'm like, oope, you're idolizing this person. Oope, you're wanting to do that thing where you they your whole world and you're ready to drop everything. Or on the other end, like if my friend hurts my feelings and I ble if people don't like me. I crumble if they say anything that's critical. Instead of lashing out and going like, fuck you, I hate you and all this stuff. I'm like, I check myself. I'm doing that thing again. Am I splitting or Do they just care about me? that takes I mean, I still have moments, but I think the recovery time before it would take me months to realize that I was being crazy Th thenen went down to a week, then I went down to a day, thenen I went down to like, I can check myself within like thirty seconds and be like, I'm so sorry I was doing that thing that I do Mid of Yeah This is not about you. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing growth. Yeah.. please extend me a little patience, get my arms around this thing. How did you get turned ont to the dialectical That was one of the things that I feel like I'm really ragging on this place. There was eight hours of therapy every day and a lot of it I hated and a lot of it I resented and the one that I hated the most was the thing that I love the most now. was the DBT groups. Okay, DBT groups. Yeah, Dialectical behavioral therapy group. So how will that work? It's a group meeting. Group meeting It's similar to AAI..'s similar to all these kind of meetings. and I don't know. I feel like that's when it really clicked for me where I was like, we have so much in common. We have so much overlap and As much as I hate this thing and resist it There's got toa be a reason that we have ninety nine percent of the same exact story here. Yeah This is too coincidal. It's a little too coincidental. So that really chilled me out and doing that group stuff where I could kind of commiserate with the other people that had it how stupid it was. That helped me There was a community. This is, I think the great magic of the program is Yeah. If you're telling me what's wrong with me and what I need to do, it's just a dead end street. Y I can just observe someone being honest about what they're going through. I can find myself in them That's exactly it. It's so powerful and it takes away all the defensiveness. It's why I like even popping into sline popping into A I don't. necessarily think I'm an alcoholic, but there's moments where I'm in there where I'm like, Oh that's like ninety percent of my life and what it could be if one thing changed, you know? Yeah, yeah. That affects me way more than going to and having them just tell me what I am and give me a bunch of meds. Yeah. Yeah, for sure, me too. I'll regret saying this because you're going to explain. I't feel stupid for saying. But I do feel like a group therapy for BDP has a unique set of risks in the same way that SLA does. when you first hear about SLA or SL, you're like, hold on, a bunch of sex sexs are gonna to get together and help themselves recover This sounds like a recipe for disaster. Won't everyone just be fucking in the bathroom? Like that is kind of your first thing. Yeah, yeah. So Is there any risk in that group? God, it would be fun though. they be f L this big Daisy chain of He's the Savior who thinks he's the saavior, who thinks he's a saavior. I'm gonna probably get in trouble for saying this, but I don't think it's much different than sitting on set with a bunch of actors. A lot of them are undiagnosed with personality disorders. Yeah. Yeah, for sure I don't know if there's danger in it. I think it wouldd be beneficial. It depends on where you're at, but I think it'd be really fun. Yeah. okay. I could say the same thing with AA. like isn't everyone just gonna go get drunk afterwards? Yeah, That's why I'm admitting that I know it's a flawed question, but also I also am being honest about the fact that it gives me anxiety that all the people with the same condition. Do you feel that when you go to AA like a little bit of that anxiety I go to very few public meetings, but I used to go to a ton, I'm most to go to dude's houses, but I'm judgmental still. so I definitely will be looking around the room and I'll spot two turkeys that I'm like, o these two are definitely in relapse together. Like you know, these look like they're pareing off. 'use again, you can bond over and like, this is kind of a joke. that feels good. It's like being in the back of a classroom and then you only a couple sentences between this place is a joke to let's go get. Yeah Yeah ye. Dudes do go out together. But in general, no, it's a very low percentage that that's happening I would say I want to add one thing on to what you just asked about that group. Yeah. I think it would be really good because the person that I was and how much my symptoms were showing at that area in time is completely different than the person that's sitting here in this chair. So to put those people in the same room that are all on different levels or whatever the fuck you want to call it, I think they could learn a lot from each other honestly. That m Yeah. Well, and again, that's another magical component of it is you're providing so much service to the other dudes there that are further along in their recovery to be reminded, Oh yeah, man I when I first got my diagnosis, you, I was m is remed of the chaos Yeah in that person's life. and it's so helpful to keep you on the path. Right. It's like when you're in AA and that person gets their one month token and you're like, o God, I remember. Or the most valuable thing is the dude who relapses and comes in and tells us the amount of shame he's got right now, how ugly it was immediately as it always is. You know, that's the most helpful thing. Not the dude that's like celebrating thirty five years one hundred percent Now that you have had that and you have had success with therapy from it Do you feel compelled when you meet a new dude to be like, Hey So you should know, I have this or not I do, actually. And a lot of times they're like, what are you talking about? They're hearing that for the first time, right? Yeah Yeahah And they're like, I've never noticed anything. And then in my head, I'm like, maybe I don't m. Maybe I'm wrong. But I think as much as I hate the labels of things, I think it's helpful for other people the labels in contextualizing what it is and having them look it up and Google like Fuck does he mean he does this splitting thing sometimes and to be aware of it. You didn't define splitting enough for me, did I? Yeah, I got it. It's the either idoliz those two Yeah two ext. It's kind of like what you said about at your feet or out your neck. They go hand in hand with each other, but I think it can be helpful. Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine ever, I never did meet a girl that I didn't immediately say I addict So I'm gonna to do weir sh. I get up in my journal and I meditate, you know and I'm going go to meetings. That's who you are. Yeah, there's no hiding this.. So it's not gonna to work with someone who doesn't accept it and know. You just know right away like you probably should tap out now Exactly. But the shame level is much higher for you. I want to recognize. I mean, I want to be honest about that. It's like in the many things that people can admit to like, addiction's fine now. If you're in the closet about being an addict, that's like a very seventies thing too Catchch up SLA is still trickier. That's tricky for people. And then to say BDP, these are still things that are like you're The vanguard of that. You're brave to do that. Oh my Godd, I'm so sorry That. We did it the same exact time. Wha. Sorry, I say that again. My was door burn and it just won't, I don't know how to turn that chirp off. It's on Do not Disturb. Yeah, look at. Is that your shirt I don't know. Monica's going on a d too. Oh my. Shes got she's getting a special shirt. You are O the day is fun. I love that. Where's the shirt from? Why is that? Oh hot. Yeah it's a hute Where are you going on the day? Where's he taking?ittle Doms. Okay, that's a good first day. It's good. Yeah. Dark O another day? No, just with my friend Jess. and I'm not gonna to say that Okay. Yeah, That feels like well. This is special then. Yeah twelve hours ago. Yeah. They're gonna be back. be the same. And like the waitress from the night before is. So I do go there a lot so I do ry like they're like, Monica, and he's like, o Ohh, how often do you come here? I'm like, o, that's good though. I guess I don't know. I don't want to think about it. It's your insecurity st. I don't want to think about it. Like no matter what, it's gonna be bad. Yeah, matter what's But they're like, Monica, you're our favor customer ever. Oh, fuck It's over. Yeah. You're always so generous and we love having you, Oh, fuck, this is gonna'm embarrass So anyways, I sincerely want to say thank you, dude. I love when people go first and they hear you say those things you said To me, I hope they're said to you, you deserve it. I think it's much bolder. for you to come and do that. Thanks Ben Okay, let's talk about voicemails for Isabele Oh yeah, why I'm here. This is your new project. I saw it. You did, what did you think? I loved it. I'm a Rom com sucker. Yeah. I normally don't watch the movie or read the book or do anything on purpose so that there's like an objective, you know, whatever for cutting, but it popped up on my Netflix and I was like, Oh shit. And you really need to know, 'cause I don't want you to be on my neck over this. I won't I watch people's shit. Yeah. He does. I went last night to watch it. I told my family, I can't hang the night. I have research to do. I'm watching this movie. I go to my Netflix preview content. It was not there Oh shit. Maybe it was like This is inspired lang. Crazy blessing because she never watches it. I always watch it. In this case, I can't reverse. And she didverse work. So I loved it. I thought it was so well I don't know how much premise premise we can tell's I watched the trail. it could. Okay. But yeah, this girl, Zoe Doyit, who I love You just love. She's the best. She has a sister who has passed and she keeps calling the sister's phone and leaving her these kind of confessional voice memos And then the number gets reassigned to Thank God, a gorgeous dude. O Jaz. I obviously looked him up as soon as I was like, who is this guy? He make you horny? Cor. Oh yeah, he' something. Yeah it was hot. She's hot But it's so sweet. I cried multiple times and I'm pretty dead inside. Yeah. so it did get me. Zoe so good all of you guys are so good in it. Everyone's so natural. and it's a rom com. We need more. So' bringing them back and it makes me so happy. It makes me so happy. I feel the same way. Ive cried when I read it on the plane and I was like, oh shit, this one's good. Yeah.'s good. It is. You're so funny and' you play you Hi Dick Listen, I've played a deck in a dumb house.uck That's all I get It's only see me as I've got anchor here in Los Felas. so you're doing just fine. I playing a casting still casting It's a funny's fun. Yeah, it's a funny, different kind of version of that character, but it's so good. Nick Offermman's hilarious in it. I couldn't stop laughing all day on set with him. Yeah, I love that movie. I think it's gonna be a big. You know what I like about it a lot, too is the main character is fucked up And unlikeable at certain moments. like I miss Rom coms, like How to Lose a guy in ten days and never been kissed where they're like a little deceitful and they have a secret. Yeah. Maybe they're doing some light stalking. Exactly. p That was popular. That was. It was cool. It was. My best friend'sedding. Exactly. It's all Oh, by the way, she's kind of horrible in that moment. She's so good. You love her. And that's Zoe's ability to make an unlikable character And love Kristina that way. they play like unable. She's like, I just killed your mom. Yeah. And you're like you're so. get. I wish I gonna watch. I bet you look so cute.. They have that similar quality, but she's watch forever. Yeah. She's so good. I love her. Watch it guys. Watch it everyone el Isabelle on Netflix. I just saw this note Rob wrote three hundred forty hard out. I fuck that off. I'm so sorry. I hope not in big trouble. fourour o'clock. I'm good. You're good. I have accent training for prison break. Oh Tell me about prison break. We're redoing prison break. You reboak. Yeah. Okay. start on Monday.. You do. And are you a prisoner? I'm not. I'm outside of the prison. Oh. And what's your accent? West Virginia. Oh boy. Yeah. prettyretty Appalache, Hillbilly. Yeahah. Yeah. veryery demon copperhead. I'm rereading that right now. That's a good idea. Yeah. I'm watching Buck Wilde right now on MTV. It's like the Jersey shhore of West Virginia. Oh my go God it's so good. I would love to do they go mud bogging. Oh, every day. Yeah. It's insane. I would do well in West Virginia. We did the pilot there. I never felt hotter in my life. Yeah. five in LA. ten in West Virginia. Yeah ye yeah What is that on? What is in Hulu. Oh, it is. Yeah.s Hulu. That's exciting Yeah It'll be fun. Well, listen, dude, you're going to have a wonderful ride. That mean you' com for me very honest and you're very likeable.' working on yourself. working on myself. Thank you guys for what you do. I'm not getting. I listen to three podcasts for one of three. Oh well thank you. keepep doing what you. You ever shave it down to one, I hope we make the cut. make the cut. I promise All right, why don't you Thankk you. I adore you guys. Just a quick reminder that as part of our summer break, here's a rerun of one of our favorite fact checks. Pretty good stuff. Pretty good Good station. Really great station. Hey, y'all, reallyally great station. I wish I could find that actual clip Be by the way, you can't 'cause it's gonna sound nothing like it and then it's gonna be sad. They played it so frequently. on this Atlanta radio station Yeah that they had it, you know, recorded.. It wasn't like someone called and I mean, someone did originally call and say that. Yeah. They knew it was great. They really great station. I wonder Stan I wonder if Newman would remember the radio station. Should we try to cold columns? Oh sure. Yeah, this is High risk, let's see Wonder if it was B ninety eight point five Hello. Hi here on the radio if that's okay. Is that okay Oh boy. Okay I won't say where you work You know, I'm obsessed with When you and I were riding around in your Suzuki, Azuzu, Y trooper? A Azuzu trooper. Red in Georgia. And you listen to the same radio, well, maybe you listen to a lot of radio stations, but as you know, I'm obsessed still with that one gal, they played the clip of her all the time and say Hey y'all, really great st shum Hey y'all Yeah really great station. Oh, so you rememberered station. I remembered a station. This is already much I guess what're what we're really looking for is do you remember what station you listened to down there? That's a tough question. Star ninety four B ninety eight point five. Can you hear Monica Yell it. see ninety eight five B ninety eight point five, star ninety four I want tona say it was country. the beat I want to say it was country, wasn't it I'm not sure that it was. Oh Oh, I bet it wasty six point one. Oo, ninety six point one. That sounds country. She says that sounds country. S sounds like it's on the country. you got her the accents. Everybody was Hey yall Power ninety six point one. Power ninety six point one. Do that sound familiar 'causeuse we're gonna do our best. We're gonna deploy all resources to see if we can get the clip of that woman saying really great station. We can find out whether it was really great station or a really great station. An advertisement for the station depled over and over. and that's why I it finally just sunk into my mind. Yeah. you help get me there. Like we were in your Azuzu trooper and it came on and you said along with her Which let me know it wasn't the first time you heard it, and then you loved it. And then now I've loved it for thirty years. I had to do a little research. Where were we in Georgia Were we in Anthens, or were we up in Northeast Georgia? When you and Aarin lived in the mobile home. Okay, so we' at the trailer Yeah You call it trailer, I call it a m. Was it Macon? No Macon was close though. Macon County was the next county over, right? Noew Macon No And There was White County, Hall Cy, Hall, yeah. You guys were really close to that little German town, weren't you Hen Hen Yes. L're anyoneay miles from Helen We were just like right on the edge of the hills Yeah to drive into the hills to get to hell H And you're right on the hooch, right hoo Well, the mobile home was not in the hooch. There was a cric that ran through it but we never the hooch. Well, I do remember that you and I got into the hooch. you had dropped something your wallet or a watch. What did you lose in the hooch? and we had to get it A zippo lighter Oh You had to get it. That's what it was. A zippo lighter hadad to be gotten. Yeah, the Hoochci was screaming when you jumped in. All right, I love you. Thankks for I' helping If you think you nailed down the radio station, let me know so I can do something. I. because if I'm saying ninety six one, I'm wrong because that was gonna be Athens. That would have been Athens. This one was probably a country station. Yeah I'll do some research. Okay.. Ill love you Al right. I'll talk to you soon. to you later. Byee know This is what I was afraid of. that end kind of No is his recollection of it is different than mine. I want to play this song. A song. Yeah. W on yonder Hchi Hotder than a hoochichci Okay well I guess I don't have to play it. Is that way you're about to play it? I can sing along the I know all the workd AJ baby, Allan Jackson M! Hey y'all, Re great day Jwn. Hey y'all, really great day, Joon. And miss Alam Jackson, with this hit, W down yonder. We down yer on the Chattahooe. It gets hotter than a hoochie hchie. We laid rubber on the Georia Ashrooat, gotot a little crazy, but we never got caught down by the river on a Friday night Pyramid of Cs in the palon night, Talking about cars and dreaming about women. Never had a plan just living for a mute. You do y'all la down yoer on the chad and hur you. N do how much your mudoney water meant to me. How y'all really Oh my. I learned who I was a lot about living and a little about love Yeah. Okay. Okay that You really do know all the words. I'm. yes. How do you know all the words? You're not even from Georgia. When those two moved from Detroit down to fucking rural Georgia, I would go down there and they became obsessed with country. and then that's where all the The hank senior and junior and Walen all started as those two moving to the You know this stick My home. Yeah and being right next to the hooch Right, but I'm just so surprised you know all the lyrics. I know all the lyrics of all the country songs of that a, probably ninety six, seven You probably didn't drive around enough with me when you because we were newly friends. When you came over to the house that we were staying at in Georgia, when Kristen was working on bad moms We were next to the hooch. We crossed it every time we drove into anywhere Yeah, it's everywhere. Yeah. ye But I would play it for the girls every time we left the house because we'd be passing the hooch. And I took Lincoln down to the hooch and she this is a famous story. She bit me on my shoulder It went through my shirt and my skin Yeah, is the only time she ever assaulted me Wait, really? Yeah Be of the hooch. the water She dred. We were on the hooch and there were these cement steps down and probably get into a canoe or something. And she was little, if you remember think She was like under two years old. She was probably it was three months. Yeah. so she was probably two years and one month And I was letting her walk around the steps and she's a daredevil. so she wanted to get in the water, but it was freezing cold and the current of the hooch at that time of year was swift. Yeah. And so I went and grabbed her right as she was about to step into the water and picked her up and she was so pissed, I had intervened. She bit my should. Yeah. She clamped down with her two new little brand te. Really great st. Really great bite. Oh my God, Yeah, so I came home and I was like really ticked off. I told Kristen like she through. mad at her. Well it's evil. You don't like bite a human z. down roomahum It gets hot.. You know what my fifth grade school was Hadahoouchi Hi Chattahooe Elementary. Same thing. Chattahoouche Elementary. That's great on the hooch Did you call it the hooch? No, I called it Chadooy elementary But I mean, the river Oh, I mean, yeah, people called it. Did you ever go down to the hooch and drink pyramidic cans Listen, listen me. What? Chattagugee River is everywhere. know. It's like four minutes down the street from my parents' house. Yeah, so why don't you go down there and put a pyramidic cans up in the pyram light? BeCacauseuse no one does that. Did you lay rubber on a George asphalt I mean I went tubing in Helen. You did a lot. Well, like four times. Wow. Yeah. That's good. That's when I didn't almost drown Oh, was just an area of grievance? Th I can let that go. Yeah, because I guess it's evidence that it wasn't My fault. Like I know how to traverse a tube. M. I've done it. Yeah, sure. The Austin River is you. A got me Yeah, that was the San Marcos iver Way down yonder on the San Maros forever Tipped in my tube and my top got loose. Oh Um Formula One driver's coming over behind me Oh, that was about me. Sant M' River. Yeah. Yeah, my top did go. Got a little crazy, but you didn't get caught. I think I did get caught unfortunately. Unfortunately for the catchers Anho, you're disappointed for sure that I said it was fine And rightly so, it had changed The waterfall we went over. used to be a gentle little a cement paved thing. They tore it out, made natural with big rocks and like I look crazy So you're disappointed to me about that Rightly so. I'm not but My response was on the I was wr. You always want to get to the response. Well, I want you to have felt like I was willing to die for you. I was willing to kill you and die for you. Yeah S, isn't it? Listen, you suck.idn't mean for that to happen. Oh my go, that was that's no. So I have no I went over first with my child you are more equipped. but holding my child. So she. She's more a than me. She was a little roughed up like you were But if you recall like I was dealing with her and then I had to put her on the rock and go and then I had to turn my attention because I knew you were coming. And I was like But you didn't Come in, you didn't have to. So that I can imagine if I had died that day Well, like what I mean, I can, if you'd like, I can sit here and try to imagine it. But that's to me like saying what if you got hit over the head with a falling bit of debris from a building while we were in Austin. It's like I can't see you dying in that situation at all I mean, We were all right there. I was like waiting to leap in, but you got yourself from the water. But I don't know how you could have because I was I was watching you come over. I watch you tip over right up and go right to the rock. Yeah, that's what happened. But had you tipped over and like you weren't popping up, I would' have been jumping in and grabbing you. I know but by then I could have filled my lungs with water. That's too fast. Yeah. That's just too fast. I could have swallowed a lot of water. Th then I would have pulled you out on the thing and then started chest compressions after I fixed your top for you I couldn't do chest compressions. You know Andically I couldn't You would' have been like the arair anonymous I couldn't touch your boobs to save your life. mean I just have to. What do you mean Well, I'd have to have Molly cover your boobs and then start chest compressions. There's no time for that. Oh my go. She with her hands. She has Get across the river. Molly, she's drowning. Come over here. I need to start chest compressions but I can't press on her boobs. That's the time you can see my boobs if you press on them. Yeah. Okay. But press on them ress on If it's to save my life life, I assume everyone would be okay with that. I guess that's how the people in your pyramid squad felt that they had to catch you by the pussy to save your life. They did have to. And I'm grateful. Yeah. you thanked him for it. That's such an old reference, I bet people a lot of people listen don't even know. listeners. Yeah. Tell people Well, just when you were explaining that you were a high flyer and that youd get caught, you even showed me some pictures and I said, clearly some people must have accidentally caught you by the vagina and you said, yes. Well, and that's not the phrasing you used. Well, it escalated from there to catch them by the pussy. Yeah. Yeah, which is kind of a callback. Be no, it was again, way more perverse than this You were talking about boys on the squad because we had boys on our squad It was a coet squad.een boys. Teen boys. Catching high flyers by the It seems crazy. Yeah. So much of that Poris Walker, our friendaz while I commissioned Yes. you commissioned a beautiful piece of art of a of a young Monica being caught by the pussy. It was an interactive piece of art ' you pulled down. Yes. You pulled me down. So This' gonna be worth like ten million dollars one day.Causeoris walkers a g. You know what I don't Oh, don't even say out loud. Don't say that. No, no, I do, I do. I have all of this art that I moved to the house. Okay. So it's all the' sleeping It worries me. Me too I really went to the ends of the earth to get that.ed to be I. No, I have a grievance What supposed to do? I should be hanging on your wall proudly. I don't have. Eespecially when your brother and your dad visit, they gotta see that. Ding ding, ding, Chata hooch. Yeah.o Georgia G dog. Georgia go dog. Rll tide How d are stop Well, you guys got the last laugh. You know, I almost wrote that in one of my posts and then I thought, that is such bad luck. I cannot do. You almost wrote Roll Tide? As because it's our Yeah, ye yeah. But then I thought, what am I doing? Can I say this?? It's such bad luck that I've been saying Roll Tide the whole time and they went undefeated. That's how bad of luck it was to say Roll Tide We don't know' fourteen and out. What We have a national championship were about. But I've been saying roll Tide for the last nine games. What if it was too get us to this point This is a complicated superstitition just to get it. You do taunt them along the ride, but then when they get to the championship, no more roll tide Exactly My brother and dad are going to the game here in Los Angeles. Y. They'll be here Sunday night, Monday night for the game and leave Tuesday. Quick trip Quick nine The game's the nineth four thirty PM four thirty. We will be recording. Yes, we will. No, you'll be out in time for the watch the game. Anyway, I'm really excited for them. Me too. I hope they have a lot of fun I had an incredibly fun moment as a Dad few days ago, Dinging, ding dads. Lincoln came up to me and said Hey, um, I really want to go to that NASCAR race at the Colosiseum again this year. Can we go believe we'll go She asked me to take her to a car race, Monica. That's exciting. Oh So we're gonna go. Yeah. That's great. The clash in the Colosiseum. Wow. This is the one in Rome. No, our Coso, Wob, w, they don't have NASCA races in Rome yet. They're doing every other thing. We should have some a host a race in the attic That's how small the Colosseum is. That reminded me of. Okay. When I was home. My dad reminded me Oh speaking of chill drown. There's one hundred and fifty of them just piled out of my roadmaster station wagon. Why'd you have to drive that? Too many kids. Oh there there was a party bet bus. Oh it's a playdate Tela ignores me when she has friends over. you know ignores everyone when she got friends over Stay tuned for more armchair experts If you dare We all have routines. I'm Jibran, and with diabetes, mine was finger sticks. Sometimes, I skiip them because they hurt. The Freestyle Libre three C GM changeed that. It gives me glucose insights without finger sticks. Learn more at freestyleibrare. us. Finger sticks are required if your glucose alarms and readings do not match symptoms or when you see check blood glucose symbol for the first twelve hour. The views expressed should not be used for medical diagnosis or treatment as a substitute for professional medical adice. Individual circumstances may vary prescription only, safetyf founded Freeestyleibr. US I don't remember how this came up But My dad was recalling me learning how to ride a bike. Oh boy. And I have some memories of this too, but I think I've blocked a lot out and now I know why. Okay. 'a there's trauma around it. Not shocked. Let's through it because Puge, I was way too old. You had waited too late. Learning. How to ride a bike? I was seven. Okay yeah. And so my dad wanted to teach me or help me or whatever. He was like, let's, you know, we're gonna to do it in the driveway. and I said no.ure. Absolutely not I will not be seen. Yeah The whole reason I'm needing to ride a bike is because every in this neighborhood. this was in Memphis. We had just moved to Memphis and everyone in the neighborhood rod bikees. that's like how you hung out. Yes. And I didn't know how. So I was like, I gott to learn how. and he's okay. and then we go in the driveway and I'm like, I'm not doing that. And then also I refused to wear a helmet apparently. Well that's natural It not one look like a dork Right fuckking geek. He then, which this part was sad, he was like, I probably put it on too tight. I was like, no, I don't think maybe, but also I think I just you would have let him know if it was too tight. Yeah, I would have screamed Yeah.. So I took it upon myself Learn how to ride a bike in the garage gage can't done. In the closed garage. Okay, can't be there can't be done. No, the cars were removed And then my dad said, he said he was just writt into Wallace He came home from work And he said, I said, Where's Monica? And mom said, She's out there writing. No And I went out there and you were just going like and encircle in the garage. going in little circles in the garage. That's great. That would have made you a pretty advanced writer right out of the gates. He was very impressed when he was retelling this story. He was I couldn't believe it. Yeah. And so he didn't teach you how. You just went in the garage and figured out trying. Oh my go. Circles. Oh my God So insolent No That is the power of needing to fit in? Oh, sure Yes. I will getet in the garage by yourself. posossible. That's impossible. Yeah, you can't learn to ride a bike in a garage because you're learning M turning. ye. That's the hardest part. Yeah There's no straightaways And then youopp out in the neighborhood and pedalled your little bike. And I rode all the time. with No helet.. you have any I'm sure I did have to wear a helmet. It wasn't a thing when I was a kid. It was zero. No one had a helmet While we were talking about this, Neil was there too listening to this. and he said, and then I just took Neil out like on to some parking lot and then he just immediately knew how to do it. Wow. And I said That's us The padman. That's indicative of who we are. Like I can't really do it. but I'm gonna just like by sheer will, Yes all your way into doing it. Somet happen. And he has a talent. Yeah, just a natural But he doesn't care Yeah. He wouldn't have gone in the garage gone circles. No, wouldn't have Anyway, I thought that was funny. It's very funny Well No that' not That's the whole thing. It's not. Now listen, I'm glad to report that your expensive rain boots made it through to a second season. I know. Sometimes I worry when you get these things like how many weres are you going to get out of them? They'll probably be obsolete next year because fashion moves like a speedy bullet And here you are in the same ones and they look great. and I'm glad to see that they're here wo things, one these are not that expensive This was from two I got these before London. Oh my gosh. Okay, greatreat. So we're on season three of these. So I'm good at wearing my clothes. Th are great. They're orange Speaking of I'm wearing my sweater that Rob gave me mixed messages in your sity next to the painting that Rob commommission, which I'm staring at too. So Rob's really getting a lot of mileage out of his presence. Okay This is for Anna Kendrick All wonderful. Yeah, G episode. Really honored that she felt comfortable And that she loves our show so much. Me too. It's really sweet. It's funny because we recorded the intro yesterday I remember I said I felt like I should reach out. And then I was like, whyy didn't I reach out? And then I was like, Well because no one's going to read Instagram. So then last night I actually reached out And she responded. Okay. so what I haven't talk to her yet, but I' going to Wait what? I thought you said you reached out. Yeah, basically saying I want to chat with you. Oh Got it. Well, I did want to say that She reached out to me after she reached out actually before the interview, which was Awesome saying she was excited and that I know it had taken a while for us to be able to get this up and Beuse it was years ago that I originally reached out and that we were gonna do this. and then took a while for her to be able to really. Yeah. So yeah, so she reached out about that and then after she was really sweet and said that, you know, she hopes it was a good episode and that there was enough And then she said, and I do think it's important that I say this. She said that she had been thinking about the interview a lot and particularly the portion where we were talking about gaslighting and she wanted to make clear that. she was sorry if anything she said minimized my experience and that she is used to lending a lot of passion towards the addict and sometimes that comes at the expense of the person who is harm and she said like including herself Um, And then she said, which I thought was Really important like it was important to me to hear She basically said I commend you For Stigking up for yourself even if it was going to make other people uncomfortable. Right And that meant a lot that she said that because that is hard to do. Yeah. Because gaslighting' tricky, right? Like you already wonder that's built into it. a wondering of what's real and what's not and how big of a deal is this. So then when That gets questioned It's like repeating that cycle of wait, but oh then maybe it's not or may, you know, it's just doing that all over again Yeah, anyway, so I thought it was very generous and lovely of her to say that. No, she's incredibly lovely Also a post sccript, she went in afterwards and met Kristin and it was Oh yeah we talked about, you know Yeah, Kristen was jealous. It was good. Kristen got to say to her face, I'm just jealous of how talented you are. It was very sweet. Oh, that's nice. Yeah Okay, she was right about Maine does have the oldest population percentage rise in the United States. Really? Yes Th then Florida, then Florida Th Do you want to guess the third oldest state Arizona? No, a good guess. West Virginia Oh, interesting. Old people. A lot of this, these numbers might be affected by like, what state do young people move out of the most? Yeah you know For sure. This is age sixty five or older. And this was as of twenty twenty. You have the full list there? Oh yeah, have the. Maine was number one.. Number three is West Virginia.. Number two. Florida. Oh, Florida is number. yeah. Oh, okay, great. So number four what would be guessing for Wyoming No. Yeah, I wouldn't have guessed that. Yeah, none of these are that guessable. Arizona's not unt twelve. Oh my God. Look much higher. Yeah, M too. Do you want to know what fifty is? Yes. Utah. Sure. That's obvious. Really? Because Mormons have so many kids. So there's gota be probably per capita more young kids per capita in Utah than any other state. Interesting. Okay. alsoso Georgia is forty seven That's young A Let's find Michigan. Michigan. Michigan is fourteen Oest. Okay, pretty old That's good It's pretty old. It's eighteen point two percent.. You think it's good? I don't know. I just anytime there's a list and there's a number one, you gott to assume number one's the best. Okay, that'sair.. Okay. Maine is the best and then Utah is the worst in this in this specific case. Yeah. in this shootout. Yeah. I' like to compare mean ages of life expectancy state to state because I bet there's some wild variation even within the country. Rob look placease. Like I think a Mississippi life expectancy is is much lower than Stain. New York. You got it Okay Hit us This this is in twenty nineteen. List of US states and territories by life expectancies. So let'sit hit me with the life expectancy of New York Nework is eighty one point four years feels old Now hit me with Mississipp Mississippi. seventy four point nine. Big difference. seeven year difference. Can you just kind of scroll through and see what the lowest is? fifty one is West Virginia. seventy four point eight Oh my God. And it's the third oldest. And they're not living very long. That's weird. That is weird. What's number one life expectancy? Number one Hawaii eighty two point three. Oh Wow. then California. Oh Congratulations, everybody. Grats LA. Well done. I'm gonna guess, Georgia. Okay seventy nine point four. seventy seven point nine over Number thirty nine. Oh That's not. That' a good southern cookking. Thats good yummy southern deep fried cookking. true. Or how about this? Here's a positive spin. Okay. They're in a bigger rush to meet Jesus Oh That makes sense too. Okay. It always confuses me. truly, I'm not saying this in a condescending way. I feel like if I was a full blown Christian, I believe lockstock and barrel that I was gonna go to heaven and meet Jesus. I'd be in a hurry to get there. That's the part I don't really No because you still have family and it's like there's still people on earth that you you people with no kids or family their families like are like's say person person with no kids or family and I still like L. You're not a Christian. I know, but I like living on earth like even if I thought Oh I'll get to go if there's a much better place, it's kind of like It's like you know that Emily Burger' next to your house, okay And then you have some old ground chuck in your fridge and you choose to make a burger when you could go next door to Emily. I. Hevven's way better Prove comparison, I don't see. This is crazy. Listen, Heaven's better than the US ofA But you're gonna be there for eternity. So you still want to live your life here with people you care about. Also it doesn't require kids and a spouse to have loving relationships that you want to keep up Sure enjoy and No, I wasn't trying to demean anyone without Well I' I'm just saying, I understand wanting to stick around and see your kids likeike hit milestones. Yeah, but I want to stick around just to enjoy life. But me and Aron were Christians and I believe all in, I'd be like, buddy, let's get up there and ride dirt bikes in heaven. Like let's go to the better place That'd be me. If I knew There was a better place, I want to be in the better place all the time I moved to California because I thought it was a better place to do the things I wanted. Like I'll go to wherever is better I'm trying to sit somewhere that's less good. Well, you don't get to go if you kill yourself. I know Eating fried chicken all day every day isn't killing yourself technically according to Jesus or smoking cigarettes. That won't keep you out of heaven. No. So I could like drink hard smoke cigarettes, eat KFC and then go wr, go do wheelies in heaven Probably just the doubt. Well, that's the thing. That's what makes me think there must be some doubt. Yeah. I always like to bring up religion to keep things moving. Yeah. not alienate the I always feel bad by the way. So you know, quite often Christians comment I'll anger them One in particular, they were Some of the more hardcore Christians were really upset the way Yvall was talking about Christianity and Jesus and the way I guess was with him. Which I didn't find all that, but that goes to show I'm out of touch with what might offend you, you know I guess my assumption is there's no reason for you to be offended. I don't believe in the thing like I'm not offended that you don't believe like I do that there's nothing. But that's not how it works because I guess I'm talking about someone they love deeply when I talk about Jesus. So that needs to be considered, I guess At any rate, I was a little shocked by that. Aside from being shocked, I don't like it if Christian's feelings were hurt when I'm talking about my point of views. That's not my goal.t I don't want that at all That's not my intention. I want Christians to listen to this show. Yeah, of course. Yeah. And you feel welcome. You don't wantna make people feel bad. That's alienated.. Exactly Okay. Do lie detector tests No, prettytty much no. I mean, there's lots of findings I don't think they've been used in court in a long time. Us to be like they'd always they gave everyone a polygraph and it was like very damning. Well, before DNA because now we just have this greater thing. And they were like in all the police stations and they always wanted to hook you up to one and you had Have your lawyer say no, no, no. Yeah Okay, I'll re a little bit about this. The accuracy of polygraph testing has long been controversial. An underlying problem is Theoretical, there is no evidence that any pattern of physiological reactions is unique to deception. An honest person may be nervous when answering truthfully and a dishonest person may be not anxious I think what it detects is nervousness. Yeah. So then your question is does nervousness Really what it detects is a change. Yes. because it's based on this baseline that they gather