William Morris and the Old Bed

Astonishing Legends is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money when you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes, and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive dot com after this episode to see if you could save. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Potential savings will vary, not available in all states This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. I'm going to be honest with you. I am online way more than I probably should be. And between me and everyone else at my house, we've got a zillion screens going on at any given moment. So when my internet slows down, it is a full crisis. 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You can't beat it Terms apply, see optimum d. com for details Astonishing Legends Network The views and opinions expressed by hosts and listeners on the Astonishing Dead lettter offffice are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Astonishing Lends Pductions, the Astonishing Legends Network or any affiliated entities or guests And something unexplainable happens to you It can make you feel isolated or alone But trust us, you're not For over a decade, you've been sending your strange stories to astonishing legends. And now it's time for our fellow legenders to hear them too Join us weekly in Blanket Fortiana as we dig through your intriguing messages to the astonishing Dead Letter Oice. Todonight's episod Does a house remember Tonight, we're headed across the pond over the river and through the woods to Grandma's house, Grand's house, sort of, you'll he here Yeah. intont some old border country between England and Wales, reallyally rich area with a lot of history. But we're going to a house that's been long standing enough to have outlived nearly everyone who ever loved it And maybe it's okay with that. The house is okay with that. Yeah, this is the Welsh marches. That's the proper name for this area. Shropshire pressed right up against the Welsh border. For centuries, this was kind of a rough scene between two countries. You had the marcher lords out here in the medieval period, somewhat independent barons holding a frontier Frequently got ridated from both directions, castles every few miles There was a lot going on and then the whole thing just Things calm down for L, long time probably longer than America has existed. But today, it's some of the most thinly populated old country in England. It's the stiper stones, the long mind, the severn winding through. market towns that were already ancient when the tudors turned up a little bit later. Yeah. And this isn't your typical Hollywood haunted house haunting style kind of thing either. you know, with the with the rattling chains and the moaning and and this and that. I mean in a Hollywood sense, the movies everybody wants to leave. Now that's certainly the case for a lot of stories we also get where people are just like, we can't deal with this. But we've found over the years There's a fair number of stories that we've come across where there's actually What sounds like chains rattling Yeah. One of the creepiest ones comes from someone who is a mortuary technician, someomebody who was responsible for embalming and treating and preparing bodies that came through in the basement at night for the night shift for the day crew to working on. And they actually heard like clanging and chains being dragged. So There's a few other tropes in this, but yeah, for some reason the chain dragging is one of them. but Not for tonight. We have a few others. A Little Jacob Marley action. No I see what you mean. It's that there is something about that and there's another, it's not a trope in that I believe it's fictitious because it comes up in so many stories of people that we find credible that there's something about the appearance, let's say, of whatever this thing is And that is a recurring theme like so many. So what's going on here? That's what we want to know. But there's also a love with little story that this is wrapped up in. And when we're talking about these things are less likely to happen and the things that are more The ones that seem to ring more true to us are much more subtle, I'll say. I would agree with them But in this story, there is the unexplained But I love how it's dealt with and how it's experienced because these all don't have to be horrific, terrible stories. They can be heartwarming and inspiring in many ways. I'll only say this Notice how gentle this story is. It's not a story that's necessarily trying to scare you, if anything It's a story about being looked after. So Forrest, I think it is your turn to read this one. So why don't you take us into this house in England I would very much like to tell you a small story about some experiences we had upon first moving into our home in a small village in Shpshire, England near the Welsh border It's a beautiful old early Victorian villa, eighteen forties. in need of renovation and we Me, my husband and our two young daughters We're very excited to embark on this new adventure together in twenty nineteen It was empty as we moved in because the previous owner, Betty, had died eighteen months previously at the impressive age of ninety four. having lived in Lve the house since nineteen sixty one The house felt a bit sad and unloved being empty so long But we knew it just needed a bit of life in it and some fresh paint Betty had been a headmistress at a local school and had a special place in her heart for both children and dogs So our new neighbors assured us that we, having both, would have met her approval The first experience happened when I was at the house with my youngest daughter who was three and a half years old at the time. We hadn't fully moved in yet and I was shuttling necessities from our rented house to this new home People were dropping in to see the place and after two days of this, the third day had to be spent at the rental house, tidying and packing My daughter has to go back to the new home too see the old lady. My grad had visited during the week and I thought she was referring to her I asked if she met Big Granny my grad She said no She met the old lady with the wide hair and the things all over her face bllack things all over her face Well, I shut that one down for later inspection and carried on with the packing After we'd moved in, I felt the atmosphere in the house lifting It was genuinely friendly and welcoming, and it wasn't just us that said so Everyone who visits loves this house did have a strong sense in those first few months of being gently inspected. It was nothing sinister, just a sense of being watched from a distance which dispelled after a few months However, a few weeks after moving in, I got irritated at the kids for some reason and yelled at them and immediately felt incredibly guilty like I'd been properly told off It was just a feeling Probably a good dose of mum guilt too, but it was very odd On the whole, the house has never given us a reason to be scared. the sellers And even if I like ghost stories and podcasts, they were definitely something I didn't share with the kids We're a close family, and the kids were still young, so we dealt with the usual nightmares and Waking up you have with children, but nothing out of sorts I thought itd best to wait and see if they said anything about the rather than provoke any made up stories to satisfy Mum But they didn't mention anything over the usual bumps and bangs of an old house with wonky plumbing It was only about six months ago on a long car journey with my youngest that we were flicking through podcasts and we saw a ghostly one that she wanted to listen to And she's nine now, so I thought it would be fun One of the experiencers recalled seeing a figure in their house with no facial features, but inside some lines across the face that look like static on an old TV and white wavy lines My youngest stopped the podcast and said, Mummy, that's what I saw I asked her to elaborate and she said that after we had moved in Once or twice, she'd seen an old lady in her house with white hair and black squiggly things across where her face should be. She wasn't very scared as the figure wasn't threatening, but instead just seemed a bit lost She assumed that it was Betty, the previous owner, as we had spoken about her and how she'd loved the house as much as us telling them that she'd passed away in the room we'd chosen for the girl's bedrobe And We only heard that after we'd moved them in. honest She stops seeing her after just one occasion at night in her bedroom that she shared with her elder sister She slept on the bottom of the bunk bed and she was woken up by Betty climbing into bed with her Again, she didn't feel particularly scared, but it was when Betty started snoring and talking in her sleep that she asked her to get out and please leave her alone She went back to sleep and apparently didn't see her again. This story came straight from her lips not a stumble whilst she was telling it. and I knew that she was sincere she was surprised herself as hearing the other story had unlocked the memory for her that had been semi forgotten Betty getting kicked out of bed and not being seen again seems to coincide with the time I felt the presence dissipating. I have concluded that Betty, who had adored the house, hanging around a little to check that the old place was in safe hands before moving on. Sometime after that, I found an old terracotta plaque in a cupboard that I've kept ever since that red Hind and dear is the old house here It felt deeply appropriate I don't know if you've come across the books of Lucy M. Boston She wrote The Children of the Green Now series about an ancient house and its laayers of inhabitants. she also wrote a sort of biography about her life at the house where it s Hemingford Greay which is a truly ancient house called memory in a house She posits the notion that many houses over time appear to develop a distinct personality of their own that expresses itself in various observable ways, and the love and care it engenders in its owners. I feel very much that this is the case at our house lookingooking at its evidential history It has been occupied for long periods of time by formidable women. Fty years from eighteen eighty eight to nineteen eighteen by Lady Harnage Stalw widow of the village who taught Bible classes to young boys in our sitting room. fifty six years by Betty, who is similarly well known in the locality I like to think I'm the next strong woman with two further strong little women to hold this house fitting it up for the new century as my predecessors have done for theirs. We're very happy here and intend to be here for some time Thanks for reading, and I'll be happy to clarify any points for you if you intend to use the story for the deead letter Office with much appreciation for your excellent p. of the many hours of fascinated listening it has given to me After these messages, we'll be right back. Astonishing Legends is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money when you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes, and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. progressive. com after this episode to see if you could save. Progressive casualty inssurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. This episode of Astonishing Legends is brought to you by Alloy Health In this story, a family moves into a house with a long memory old stories and maybe even a gentle haunting But when it comes to menopause, you don't have to wait years for relief or feel like a stranger in your own head Almost half of women wait three or more years before seeking help for hot flashes, sleepless nights, and brain fogs Alloy is an all in one platform built by women who have been there It connects you with menopause specialized doctors and proven treatments, so care can start in hours, not weeks No more waiting for rushed appointments or feeling dismissed Joined the ninety five percent of women who tried Alloy and saw relief in the first two weeks Head to myalloy. com and use the code summer twenty Your menopause specialized doctor will tailor your treatment to your exact needs Plus, you get unlimited messaging with your doctor Head to MY A LL OY d. com and use code Summer twenty to get twenty dollars off And now back to the show Well There's a lot of things about the story that are super fascinating and endearing and comforting. and I like Lucy's overall take on it. That's the name of our listener who also mentions an author named Lucy, but it's true. Those two people have the same name in this case When the face is described as having no facial features, but inside some lines across it that looked like static on an old TV, that's just like, okay, yeah, that's pretty intense. Why do you have a staticky face? going on there? Are we getting into the faces now the portion of this? I kind of want to a little bit because that that's the thing that jumps out at me the most about this. I get Yeah, I was gonna to say I have a handful of notes here and we might as well jump into it because it's one of the prominent things about the story. Yeah. we'll talk about the background and a little bit of the history of the house later, but this aspect, as I said in our cold open or pre ramble. my part is There are tropes you could say or motifs really about the genre of ghosts and sightings and interactions And chains is one of them, certain sounds, footsteps, knocks, raps, of course, those are all historical things that have been tracked And another one could be apparel more appearance, a little bit, you know, the old lady the old hag at the foot of the bed. That's a different thing, I think going on than what we typically find with these types of houses, that's its own trope, you could say or subgre and There are things about the appearance. The lady in white always wearing something white What is that about What's important about the clothing? Like I said, there's other areas that branch out when I do my pattern tracking that I can't help but do, but one thing's the horns. Why the horns what's going on there? that's been described in so many other things like Shadow people kind of things, not just demonic entities, but like shadow people in different colored varieties we've talked about before, some being being a total solid bright version of a color, a hue or tint that is over there They're whole being their whole person And one of the main things though is the face Is it something akin to, we know in the spirit world that has a lot of meaning and carries a lot of weight, the name, names are important You'll see that with demonologists and priests doing exorcists having the name of something gives you access to it in a universal spiritual way But you have to know who you're addressing exactly. And if you don't, then it's like, that's not me, you're trying to exercise. That's somebody else who was here centuries ago But there's something about the face that's iconic, not just in the storytelling, but apparently on the other side with spirit as a general term here with the spirit world The underworld, the overworld, this and that. and Is that part of the identity? And when you don't have that, is that something because what let me put it this way. You've seen what comes to mind immediately is Spielberg's movie AI. where the robot beings, the sentient intelligent advanced race now that is biomechanical or just all mechanical in the future, they have kind of like screens for faces where they They show emotions or whatever they're thinking, and that's just kind of an expression. It's like a visualizer that you might see on some music in a YouTube clip, like we used to have with our stories playay is that it's a visual expression of what we still have we still have this. Yes for now. Right. And there's plans afoot. I'll just sneak that. Yeah, we're trying to try to up and jge and glow it up, whatever.. But that is a visual component to whatever intellectual or thinking that's going on and There are several stories I want to mention here from the past One recently, I think, it was a DLO that we had just recorded, but involves somebody driving by a young woman on the side of the road. Oh yeah, I remember that one That was in L.A, I think. Right, somewhere outside, but involved a car crash And there was a car that went missing that they think they didn't know where it was. and then somebody drove by and saw a young woman. up side of the road. I believe wearing some kind of white dress or this is different something. Yeah ye. but didn't appear to have a face. Or they couldn't see the face. There was something about it So they didn't really know who it was. They came back. she was not there, but the police investigated further and then found the crashed car And it was one of those miracle things where the child in the seat was still alive, even after a few days had passed with no food or water But the mother had passed. So a bit of a crisis apparition story There's another story about, I think it came from paranormal witness, alsoso something about a woman walking by the side of the road all in white But what freaked out the person driving by was that the woman had no face And again, I don't know if that's maybe symbolically tangibly in a way that where your identity connected to that face is gone or in some kind of limbo where it does not appear to the viewer. the person witnessing this It's kind of like not not there. Or is it like maybe some kind of screen memory or something? Yeah, you could have blocked it out. but I've heard people, I think when you're not expecting it, you know, you expect to see a face. Your first thought is like, oh, this woman walking by the side of the road is a ghost I wonder what she looks like. It's just there's something That's not there about it If you know what I mean. So I think that that cararnival Witness story, that was in the same episode of the three stories one of my favorite here. I think I think season one episode three where it also had either the Rainmaker story with it But also one of the most chilling demonic stories, The mother who had a daughter there, with her boyfriend living there and Just a lot of bizarre activity that they captured on video like the yven door just banging open and close continuously for an hour. Oh yeah. someomebody making taking dumping the entire contents of the refrigerator out on the floor and then Sticking wrz bits or cheese it to the wall and patterns. W people Yes. Yeah, yeah, I remember that. Yeah. And they were just at their wits in. And then it was the daughter and then the daughter's friend who was living there with them. and then the boyfriend. that's the one where they tried to That's like remember the footprints from the vertical plane. Yeah was something There's something about walls too and and where you can walk and you're applying this to other than just to mess it up. There was actually in patterns because again, they they videotaped a lot of this, but They tried to make peace with it and did a little candle And they had a ceramic little cat sculpture and they were trying to appease it, which is that's like Churchill saying when you try to appease tyrants it's like feeding a crocodile, hoping you're the last one to get eaten It's not a way to approach this, but they were trying their best. They didn't know what they were doing. And then the boyfriend comes in and he's really upset about all of that And he takes the cat sculpture, the little ceramic thing' my favoriteportation. Yeah. he throws it out in the yard and then they, you know, saying stop, you got to stop with this. they turned around and it's back on the table. Yeah. like it was on the on the table or the counter, I think by the kitchen or something and they had a sliding glass door and they opened it up Yeah chucks it through the door all way into the backyard Ranting the whole time, turns around it's sitting right where he picked right Yeah, so that was that was an amazing chalk full episode But it did have that story. And I remembered that. and then I'd heard around that time I'd heard a story from Jim Harold's campfire that I always remembered and this one's Similar, but this has another tie in in that a guy was at his house And he looks out the front window at night late at night and he sees what pops up. as a woman with face but it looked like the face had been deteriorated quite a bit or decomposed and it was all white. And you can kind of make out the facial features and This is fifteen years ago. So so I'm going gonna spoil it for you. But the idea was that he saw this. he freaked out. He's totally terrified. Of course, notothing's outside And then as the backstory goes, his aunt, who he says was very lovable, feisty, but a bit of a barfly. got a ride home from someone she should not have and They didn't find the body for a while. and when they did, it had been in water and He said the photo of her postmortem was that face where basically the face had kind of melted away So he said, that was the face. And so that was gone. And it's like, that can happen, I think and be a residual image that carries through into whatever the spirit is Here is not the case. I do wonder what are the black things over the face that she described. Thats that's pretty wild. or the static. likeike what's like I said, like you were saying, like what's going on with the representation of the face because, you know, it's one of the markers, the most important things Everybody notices when you interact with other humans and other beings Everyone's got some kind of a face. Yeah. and that's how you identify and locate them. Even over time your face changes, of course with age, but it's still there. the person' still there. So When there is no face or there's something on the face like black things. As she said, black things all over her face like What is that a representation of And is it something having to do with Betty's actual passing or decomposition Yeah, I don't know. That's a good question. But yeah, it's like that's that's a disturbing thing because again, you see something and even if you think it's a ghost That you can maybe deal with, but it's a ghost with no face. That's that is even more to That's a problem. But that's a no for me dog, as they say. Yeah. But just say not. G to the story though, like I said, I love the attitude of Lucy and her family that they're accepting of this and in a good light. But it also has to do with the feeling that this experience is giving to them is that it's not scary, although it can be a little unnerving. And what I love is the daughter, it wasn't that disturbing until Betty started snoring You can yell around. And then it's like anybody else. Remember the Cohen brothers movie True Grit and Hay Steinkamp they give her the room with the older lady who steals all the blankets and snores loudly all night. Yes. That annoys anybody, but like the people or spirits doing their old usual things in their place because they still have some strong connection to it. I think is the anchor to the story is that Betty loved her house She was a strong woman and she sounds like a rule follower. so in life. And she wanted to make sure that these folks were good things are being properly taken care of So she could RAP rest in peace. I guess Shropshire has no shortage of other local lore. One, I think we mentioned just recently on another show of unless I'm mistaken, the white lady of Ludlow Castle There's also the Stiper Stoness Devil's chair, which was apparently a meeting bus for witches, which is pretty interesting And another one that came up in our research was the Long Mend's lost Village whose sounds of life are still said to be heard on certain nights. Well, that's fascinating. Tell us a little more about that if you've got the info. Well, I mean, that story in itself is pretty folklore heavy and the Long Mend is the Long mountain It's a section of land Yeah. but there's a lot of spooky stories there. Apparently there is a phantom funeral The only seen on the road toward Ratlin hope R A T L I N G H O P E and this is like a horse drawn hearse that moves super fast. there's also like a black shuck situationice A devil hound, which of course, they're everywhere I guess it Ratlland Hope is pronounced locally ratch up. So there's a lot of stories of like time slip kind of things that are happening all in this area, which would make sense given the age of it But the reality is the whole area is made up of lots of places where there were little villages that are all gone now because people have just been living there forever. R. Things have come and gone and some things have been in place the whole some places have been in place the whole time Others are gone. so it seems like among the folklore that you look up for this area are stories of people hearing and encountering things that shouldn't be there that seem like their' echoes from the past, which of course makes you wonder about this. and also how old are these characters that you're that you're encountering and they have an idea for this and what they think. and I think their idea makes sense because the other thing that's fascinating to me about this story is whenever we encounter stories like this where people are interacting with something Yeah and they're making a connection about who or what it might be. I feel like most of the time It seems to be right. It seems to be on track. If there's a way to to nail it down It seems like there's some kind of psychological connection between the living and the dead in these scenarios because we have so many of them it's like, Well, we named it so and so. And then they find out later, guess what? This person was here and that's what they. So even if you're wrong about the thing you're encountering, you've magically pulled the name out of a hat. Yeah of someone that had passed in the area or like was a legendary resident of the place thatre that you're living in So I think there's a lot to be said for what people think they're dealing with because I think that's more than just guessing in these kinds of scenarios. I think it's more intimate than that Yeah, there's there's something like I said, that's the important aspect to a lot of these stories is the identifier or identification and I've told this story before, but like at one of the places I worked at for a long time as a freelancer or as I called it permalancing, where youre just you're freelancec, but you're there for years And the building manager there was a resident ghost at the building and it wasn't old. It was built, I think in the early nineties. littleittle small things would happen. I experienced a few of those And I was talking to the building manager at the time and he said, like, oh, yeah, that's George I said,, do you know did somebody named George Pa awayay here? He goes, No, that's just the feeling I get. That's just what I call him. That's just a name that kind of popped into my head because yeah, I think that's his name But yeah, there's something about this identity and how that's warped or changed. So You're talking about names of people that sometimes connect. And then you know, people find a way, like I said, this also reminded me a little bit about the conjuring house Remember that moving in story where the mob, she was moving in and they got their kids helping and they they're bringing stuff in from the car and the movie ban and There was a guy there that was u I think they all saw him, like he was just standing there or was in the parlor or something and looked totally normal and real. and he was like, oh, I'm here to cheheck on the house or do some real estate stuff thenen he just kind of You know, everybody turns around, he's just gone as just one of the many spirits bound up there. He looked real as anything else, like a real human. That is the other thing and I think we mentioned this on a recent episode as well that when when listener Lucy mentioned the author, Lucy Boston and the Children of the Green No series, the books and then other one in Hemmingford Gray called Memory in a House, which is very cool and saying that this author Boston together a notion that many houses develop a personality that expresses itself in certain particular ways. And this was something I think that we talked about just an episode or two ago, because we've had a couple here that have been about houses in a row And just this idea that maybe that personality is made up of varying levels of hauntings or participation from deceased prior people that have passed through it. and somehow that becomes like, as you like to say, a bouieise of like of spirits. Like there it's a recipe for a particular kind of haunting. and maybe why when you're dealing with it, you can't just thinkink of it as this one on one battle with particular entities in so much as you have a recipe of things that Maybe you've got to figure out what works the best with. What's What's a good wine with this dish. You're going to have a problem just taking the pepper out of it or ye it's got too much cumin, you know, that's it's more complicated. Well it's so nebulous on that side of what's going on even when you talk to spiritual mediums who claim to have a bit more knowledge they can apart about the scenario you're in, but it reminds me also of the slgeinity house and that there are several spirits there, several which are good. bound by a larger negative force that is keeping them there because they derive some power fry on the Sally house as well. Yeah, there's a bunch of things coming in and out of there. I mean, it could be a larger portal too where it's the the ghostbusters. It's You've opened up the gates and now all kinds of things are flooding in like the slimer And everything in you can imagine. It's the light at the end of the tunnel for the things trapped in the darkness. Yeah right light comes on, they all gravitate towards it. and sometimes maybe There's a gatekeeper that ye also wants to capitalize on all the things that are showing up and control them somehow. Right. It's so hard to nail down. If you remember from the sludge entity, the recurring lucid dreams the One childild was having was of a Native American warrior or shaman or medicine man someomebody that was trying to do battle and fight for good with his family. But things are kind of like anachronistic maybe, like the image that he said the child did is that yeah, it's like a Native American guy and he's But he's got a sword and there's a jewel at the end of it that glows It's like, well, that's not really fitting with the So now with the narrative and you think, well, that's the child's. Now' in the Marvel universe. Yeah Well who like I said, if that child's one of the children's desescriptions that is accurate. Wh knows what's going on? But I think' you get You get led down the wrong path if you try to apply our waking everyday fictional narratives to stuff It's like, well, that doesn't make sense Because why would he have that? It's like listen, you don't know what the rules are, what's going on on the other side other than you get these generalized impressions. And so A lot of times like I said, it's negative, but you also have other good entities. I heard a story also of there was a bad very negative and powerful entity that was terrorizing this family. But they did some cleansing rituals, but also there was a spirit of a past family member, like an uncle or a father that was trying to protect them but didn't have enough power as much power as this thing that was terrorizing the family And then when they did this cleansing ritual The word they got from a medium is like, yeah, you did that. it weakened, you know, the powerful thing a little bit, but it really dampened the energy and power of the relative trying to help. So you just you got rid of the baby with the bathw. Right, right. And so you know, there's other things going on that are trying to do battle on the other side. You just can't see it. And what you see is the aftermath, which is a lot of knocks and noises and spooky things showing up and feelings. againgain, this also has a lot to do with feeling when she said she yelled at the kids. And you know, every parent would know it's like it's justified, but you still feel bad, you know, and you hopefully make up for it. But She instantly felt this guilt and like a little bit of being shamed or dress down, talk down to put in her place. And she said it was a very odd feeling And What I gather is that the reason it felt odd was because it was not her feeling of guilt, not later like, o, Id probably yell it a little too loudly and But my wits were short at an end. So you get an immediate feeling. also believe that feelings and emotions can be passed spirit world entities to the living. U so that's a fascinating thing and just kind of the background of the appearances and feelings like climbing into bed. That's a common thing and you know it's not you or it' just uh The living person already in the bed knows it's not a fluke, like, o, maybe I'm just shifting around or you know when something climbs in a bed with you. And the feeling you get, like I said, the from the documentary The Nightmare the woman she was too scared to turn around see what had climbed into bed with her. when she was alone in her place and there shouldn't have been anybody there And later she found out there wasn't anybody there, but like felt bed pressing down the weight of it something next to her trying to be the spirit of her mother or that presence And not that it was malicious, but what upset her was that she knew it wasn't the spirit of her mother, who had recently passed, It was something pretending to be the mother And again, it wasn't evil, just like that's disturbing. L you don't want anybody impersonating your loved ones, you know after they pass. Yeah, right in life or in death. So That's just upsetting. It was like get out And so like with Betty, it's like, we love you, but you got to get into a bed that no one's in. L don't don't climb my bed because I can't sleep now. you're snaring too loudly. And also we're gonna try and find you a CPA machine or from the maybe you should try a breathe right strip or something because those don't really work for me, but have added if you you know, if that's your trick Like I said, that's that's just more of an annoyance of from the living like a it's a more common thing The interesting part is that she asked her to leave and then she left. Yeah. And that's when Lucy says that coincides around the time with Betty getting kicked out of the bed and not being seen again also coincides with her feeling about her presence dissipating and like, okay, I can see sorry. I just love this house and But I can see you're taking good care of it. You're good parents. I love the kids And I think you're fine here. And maybe that was the the release Betty was needing to move on to wherever her next destination is But getting back to the As without old a face. Just that's the reverse of it. I've also heard stories Good old Billy. Good old Billy. I threw that it just because we share the same birthday. but that's the reverse where I've heard other stories too. One from a good friend of ours whose father who's a real no nonsense tough guy saw a pair of disembodied eyes darting right at him coming from the ceiling right. place in Vietnam when he was fighting that war. Yeah. But again, the face, the eyes, there's something significant about that that still carries meaning. So I do wonder about that. And I was going to say also that was a chilling description in a Peter Straub book, the acclaimed horror writer in his book Shadow Lland I think that somebody showed up at the door. I've heard of that. I haven't read it I say o yeah, only because I'veard I'm familiar the title, but I don't know. It keys in with the face and there's, again, no shortage of of face related stories here. of having no face or some kind of distorted face sometimes which is also very disturbing or a decomposed face or, like I said, eyes with no face Was there any time that you were at a facility? and I know you and I have not had a lot of experiences like this, but I do remember one where It was disturbing but not frightening, but you wanted you wanted to get away like in the basement in the workshop at the Kent Stage Theater. In that particular case it was both. I did experience fear, but not fear of What I thought had happened or what it was more of a, I think probably actually a fear of death or a su dad interesteresting. it was connected to story that I had not heard yet. That's right. You would not dying of the heart attack. That's right. That was that was told us. It was more like, oh God, I'm dying. That's what if. Okay. That was that fear. That's what I was. I didn't think I was dying. I wasn't literally paying Yeah. sure sure. But it was it was a feeling that was adjacent to that. Okay. The reason I asked that is because we're talking about feelings and emotions being passed to from the past, not PAST, PASS ED from the past to the living in that you experienced perhaps what the theater maintenance guy experienced because down in his workshop is where he had his heart attack, which is the story we heard later Yeah and that he's experiencing that like I'm having a heart attack or angina. Yeah he cannot breathe and he feels like he's going to die and there's a lot of fear and pain associated with that Do you think that that's maybe a little of what you experienced of his last moments there I don't know like I don't have a a good handle on what it was, but there's obviously For me, you know, it seems like a connection. off course hindsight's twenty, especially in the case of a paranormal encounter like this that aligns with something that actually happened. Right. And I don't have a long life of those kinds of experiences. So I don't have a lot to say. of, oh, yeah, well, that's it reminds me of this happened to me dozens of times. That's one of three times in my life that something freaky has happened with me. so But it was very real. It was very I wasing Standing right next to you and you looked a little green around the gills. Yeah, yeah. was Th As soon as you walked up, it kind of dissipated. When I got up to the out of the basement, I was much better. Yeah. 'ause at first, I was very comforted down there because it reminded me of my great grandparents' house. Right. There you go That's another had like a shop that was very similar, all the smells and the old tools and all the stuff that was down there. Right was comforting to me. Yeah. and then that changed like on a dime. Yeah. That's another since we're talking about old buildings and houses and they do have a resident kind of a vibe to them And ye how that can change and just again, the stuffiness of it I like how they were describing Lucy had described, you know, once they started renovating and they started living in a little bit more, the mood lifted, Not that the mood was bad before, just stuffy, a little rundown littleittle bit of neglect that just happens with time and you know, not being cared for immediately and Once you start moving in, it's all life living energy, I think, which is palable Scientists are looking into that as being a real thing. energy having effect later on and is that kind of subatomic level kind of a thing where you do have entanglement and spiritual entanglement and subatomic entanglement where there's there's a connection to things past and energies p. so as soon as you start talking about energies and this and that and buildings and people start rolling their eyes, which I get, I understand that. But when you go to a place and you feel something, I don't think it's always just your imagination because you've been listening to a spooky podcast on the drive there Be a lot of times you don't expect that or you have the opposite reaction like, well, this should be fun and you go in and it's like, n, that place is wrong And then sometimes a reverse where you thought it was going to be spooky and creepy. And then it's like, no, seems kind of fine here. So I love that about the story here that they are they had a good experience. with this. and I'm glad that the young girls are being given the right attitude and to not be afraid of whatever that might be to be aware And stand up for yourself like asking, you know,, okay, you got to get out of bed. I can't sleep And u, you know, just go please go away So to stand up for yourself, the right things are being taught here. and again, not to fear it or deny it and stamp those things down is like You acknowledge it, likeike this is how I'm really feeling. And this is the backstory and we don't know how these things work exactly, but It's nothing to be afraid of and the things that you are displeased with, it's okay to stand up for yourself And you assert yourself in this new place because now it's yours and to take ownership of it. And I do see a lot of other stories. We all know these where You get a haunted house story because the person doesn't want you in there. And I understand that too, having an old house to go to that you were raised in or you cared for. and maybe it's not you know, things aren't being done the way you like because How many times have we heard There's a bit of construction or renovation that happens and then that kicks up the spirit activity because like wait, wait wait what are you doing I put in that wall for a purpose. and now you're tearing it down. It's like, I don't like that. It's like, Yeahah, well, it's ugly. yourself said it wasn't appreciated at the time when you were alive But we're making this our own. And you know, so I'm the mind. I get that and a person's space is sacred in many ways to them, but you're gone now. You have to let go. thingsings change That happens as you get older too You don't like change. You want the routine. you want the same things. You worked your whole life or something And you want to be the same always, but you also have to realize You are in another phase and great things await you if you would just let go of the past because it may have been your past, but now it's not your present. Well, it's very interesting for us that you're talking about all of that and what a home means and what it means to different people in the past and the present couldn't agree with you more There is something about this story that is it's a little bit scary and spooky, but it's also very comforting. And I got really curious about the plaque that Lucy said she found in the cabinet And I went to look that up and it turns out it is connected to a poet and a famous Victorian England designer named William Morris, not of the talent Agency in New York, which by the way, represents us, if you need us for anything. But Yeah It' not William Morris Eeavor WME, but a different William Morris. But this name may be familiar to a bunch of you, especially if you're across the pond He was a giant of the arts and crafts movement in Victoriaian England, a designer, a printer, poet, and the wallpaper and textile stuff that he did, if you just Google William Morris patterns, youre you're going see a million things that you recognize, beautiful stuff still being used regularly today And I guess in eighteen seventy one, he had an old manorhouse out in the Cotswalls where everyone is going right now. to live near Jeremy Clarkson, apparently. This was in Kelmskot, right on the Thames And he just was obsessed with this house And inside the house there is an old oak four poster ben And it has hangings on it that were stitched by hand by his wife Jane and his daughter, Maay Apparently, she was considered one of the finest embroiderers of her entire generation. So there's roses, birds, a little rabbit. When I look at this stuff, it's so beautiful. My wife and I we have pets. so we have Some of those rugs that are pet friendly And they have beautiful patterns on them. There's a couple of companies that do this. But the patterns, I realize now in one of our rooms where we have one of these, it looks like something he would have designed beautiful. wildlife and that kind of thing on it. Of course now it's made by computers and again, that friendly. Anyway