Looking Ahead to Confessions Two

Whats with this band anyway? I don't get it, Can you please explain? Wait likeike bandplain Hello and welcome to Bandsplaine. I am your host, Yasi Salk. This is a show where I invite an expert guest on to help me explain a cult band or iconic artist Today's episode is part F F about Again, maybe the most iconic artist of all time, Madonna. You guys, my guest today is the one, the only Karnans, the former pop music editor of the New York Times, They're Losts On her very first day of freedom, she's joining us. I basically I quit my job to become a full time Madonnaologist with you, Yusy. Karen was like, I'm not going on vacation. I'm going straight to my new job as Madonna Scholar. on the Bandslain podcast. I I so appreciate it. Thank you. How are you feeling? I feel good. This is like exactly where I would want to be right now. It's it's just like it's all happening. Yeah. I do find that this happens to me while I research almost any subject, but I really start to map myself onto their trajectory and I'm like Me too, Mim. I too took the road less dropped by You know, got to get ready to jump. got to get ready to jump. exactly. Okay, before we get into part for unfortunately the last part for now. I just want to once again Thank all of the resources that I used to research these episodes Today in Madonna history, Madonnaapedia, Madonna Underground, Madonna Tribe, the insside the Groupve podcast, the Encyclopedia, Madica, The twenty twenty three, Mary Gabriel, Madonna Biography, countless Instagram accounts, Weibo Girl, Madonna Brunette, all of them. thank you for all of your tireless work. You've helped me. Um All right you guys will In episode three, we left off with the reinvention tour, which based on billboard statistics was the highest grossing tour of two thousand four, earning a cool one hundred twenty five million dollars. Did you go to that tour? I did. So this is we're starting with the part of the Madonna journey where I've been like covering her this whole time and attending. So I have a live experience for everything. I will say Reinvented to her not my favorite. Interesting gone. Well I was coming off Down World, which I think I really reset the bar for her super high. Yeah. So just it was a little bit it was a little bit of a low. It's so interesting because like You talk to different people and there's So many opinions, right I've talked to some people who thought Drowned World was like, That wasn't their favorite. Like they were off put by it. I love Down World. Again, I did not d any of these as you guys famously know, but I have watched them all. on my television. and I'm like this one was like I guess like I can see how maybe given the light intense landscape of in our midst that some of it maybe hasn't aged well. but I think it's beautiful and brilliant Drown World was pre nine hundred eleven. I know. And I think I saw in July or August two thousand one, I did not have a care in the world. I was the happiest person on eararth with my first full Arena Madonna show. And I was just like, life is amazing. And a couple of months later, I was like, oh, no. lifeife is terrible. Yeah Yeahah. And then she made a record kind of about it and then we got the reinvention tour. soah tells the story. You guys did not a peek behind the curtain in my state of psychosis that I've been in me podcasting right now is Madonna Crown of Thorns coming down off the cross at the conffession store, normal. I feel persecuted by my own behavior. All right, so we're kicking off at two thousand four Sometime after the reinvention tour, there was kind of a major shakeup in Madonna's, you know world of team where her manager Carress Henry is go reportedly allegedly This was due to aair that she allegedly reportedly had with one of Madonna's security guards And they both had partners and allegedly reportedly, Madonna felt that that violated the Kabala teachings of faithfulness. I don't know, wasn't there I'm just alleging and reporting Okay, this is where I'm gonna need your help piecing it together because this is when I was like full a beautiful mind, full red string murder board, like math Madonna starts working on two musicals around this time I'm actually not that up on theical. So you're not gonna need me for this. I absolutely did watch a fan madeade video that's like an hour long by a gay man with a lisp who traveled around the world to tell us about this background story. so I will be rooming along with the audience on and I trust him. And I did a little fact checking with Corney Love, which is interesting and you'll see why. Okay. So The One of the musicals was a they're both meant to be films. so musical films, not like stage musicals One was time I be called Hello Sckers And the other was one with Luke Bisson, the director who had previously directed her video for a loveove Pfusion. Great video, great all that. So Hello Suckers centered on the life of this nineteen twenties prohibition era spepeaky easy queen named Texas Guenan, I think is how I say? She was like good friends with Maay West. Okay. Apparently from the digging I did Martin Scorsese found some footage of this woman from back in the day and was like, o, we need to make a film about her. So he was originally ied on as the executive producer. There was a book by Louise Berlinger about her life.. And so there was already a thing that was going. Bonnie Bruckheimer and Bette Midler apparently had developed this story And Courtney Love was tied to it. to star, which makes so much sense that she would have been amazing Also interestingly, just another little layer. There was a film from nineteen forty five called Incendiary Blonde directed by George Marshall starring Betty Hutton, whom Madonna loved. where she played Texas GQueenen and Gin, I'm sorry to don't pronounce the name. Incidentally, Betty Hutton also performed a song called Papa Don't preach to me In the nineteen forty seven film, The Perils of Pauline, which I didn't know when we were doing episode one, but I'm telling you now. You've really you've gone down the cable when it went down Oh bab beyond. I live I live there now But back to this Hello suuckers. So I don't know what happened with the original construction of the you know, Bonnie Brookheimer, Bet Midder Courty loveove situation, But it kind of fell apart And then Maverick films acquired the rights in two thousand one thenen also fell apart, I think partially due to Madonna selling her steak in Maverick in two thousand four But she had started working on some songs Okay Secondly, the Luke Bisson musical. this is actually where it gets kind of really interesting. This was apparently Madonna's idea and the concept was that she would portray a woman on her deathbed Looking back on the life she thought she had lived twwist She had very bad dementia and was senile and therefore did not actually experience any of the memories She was speaking of. That would have been interesting and it was apparently based on candy darling It would have been a candy darling. This is pretty cool. Yeah, pretty cool. because I think she had seen the Peter Houjar phhoto candy, darling on her death bed. and Anyways she'd gotten withith Luke Bessel, there was going to be a sci fi element because she's like Thinking back to these unlived times. There was going to be a disco scene that was kind of like tying into fifth element, Lu Bisson. So it's very cool, right? And so she she had also started working on music that while Luke Pisson was like hard at work writing the script classic Madonna multitasking here. Exactly I bring it all up because She got with Mirways, Patrick Leonard and Stuart Price to write the music. and it was going to be from all these different eras twenties, big band, forties stuff, sixties, folk music punk disisco And she went to Stewart to work on the disco music for this film And that led to hung up The hung up was actually originally written part of this from what I understand Sci fi musical about Candy Darling's life So yeah, is that not crazy? That is crazy. I didn't know that Even though I did scan through your document. I didn't retain this This is all like, I don't have proof of any of this. I mean, there are like a bunch of Croborations if you can corroborate via just various scienceing They definitely have proof that the Heo Suckers was real because I spoke to Coury Love about it It makes a lot of sense, actually. She had come to Stewart because I guess she was imagining this disco scene. And she was like, I want something that sounds like Abba on acid And he was like, I mean, that is kind of what they did. Yeah,. Apparently, he was like, funny, you should say that. becausecause about six months prior, and again, I don't have proof of any of this. This is just like stuff I piece together from the interternet. If it's not real Stewart Price, call me. anyway honestly,. I'm I'm available for calls. Apparentlyed. Karen. So six months prior to this situation happening, he had been DJing Liverpool. and I guess like at like five AM when he was done, he was listening to the radio and heard Gimm me, gimming, giveimm me a man after midnight. And he was like, you know what? this song fucks? This is my editorializing. I don't know what he said So he went home and quickly cut a sample of the piano bit to put back into his DJ set the next week. and the people on the dance floor obviously went nuts for it. And so He was just like DJing that for a while and had fun with it but then forgot about it. And then when she was like, do you have anything that sounds like abbalon acid? he was like, actually right here I have something that sounds like abbalon acid. And then they made that song in three days I'll just say, I went to the Ab a musical. I had never seen it. Mama Mia. Mama Mia. Yeah. I finally saw Mama Mia and I was just like waiting for Gimme,ime, gim mee it. I was just like, this is one of the best pop songs ever. I've never seen Mama Mia. Is it Gimme, Gimme in there Oh, it is. Okay. is I don't It is Well it's like all the hits. Okay, that makes sense. It is one of the best songs ever. It is. Abba kind of snapped him back then. loveo Abba. Yeah, really good Just like to circle around about this musical about Candy Darling She ended up apparently getting a three hundred page script from Lukepathon and she, I guess allegedly reportedly did not like it. so that sort of died. But now they had hung up and I think there's a couple other songs on confessions that are rooted in this Candy Darling Scii musical That's wild So If that's not real, I don't want to know. For purposes of this conversation, it's real. Yeah It makes sense But who knows? So Madonna had been also kind of explains to me a little bit, even though I think Madonna loves to do this why she was working with Stewart in his like two room flat and made a veil instead of like, Oh, we're making an album. Let's go to the studio, you know? And that kind of checks out too I'll say it for the record All the best Madonna music seems to come from Me and my lad in a room together I don't wan to skip ahead too far Yeah. But the one time I interviewed her was for Rebel Heart, which we will get to. Yeah. And she said that her favorite way to make a record is just with one producer And and I think it shows. What's up there. All she needs is one producer and a coffee and a dream. Theybe like one Patrick Leonard and a dream. one st price and a dream It just happens to line of that Warner Brrosers is like, TikTok. We needed a fucuckking album bab and she was like I don't This just happened. She wass like, okay, well, I guess we could like pull this thread I don't want to go into it too much, but she talked a bit about choosing Stuart Price ultimately over Mirorway. even though there's some Mirway songs on confessions. And she said that here met Mirorway, John Paul Sartra comes to mind. He's very intellectual, very analytical, very cerebral, very intellectual Very philosophical. You have to be in the mood for it. I didn't want to overthink things too much. I don't want to be complicated right now That's kind of going back to like American life, right? whichich is a very like political record and a little bit overthought. ye. I love tortured. I'm an American Lve truthher. I love it I love like sixty percent. I think it's great, but I think she was unfairly Maligned once again for the eightieth time on that one, American L was so ahead of its time Um, but, you know, I get it. She was probably like, can we just have some fun We've been in a dark place There was a whole conversation where they're like, so it's like just fuck art lets dance And she's like, it's fuck everything let dance. That's how we get into. Do you know much about Stuart Price prior life Not a ton. So I feel like we didn't really do it on the last episode where Stuart Price comes into the story, but he had like had his own band called Zot Woman produced a bunch of music under these like various personas. I know Jacques Jaces Lecontte L rhym Digital Paper faces man with a guitar, thin white duke. and he's quite young still here, but he had already done a bunch, including I guess he had a song called Born this way Did you know about this? I did not. Which sampled controversy. Carl Bean's disco anthem that's like, I'm happy, I'm carefree. I'm gay So Do what you will with that information normal Madonna fans. We'll come back to that. we'll come back to that In two thousand five, she turns forty seven on her birthday Her husband the time. Guy Richie organizes for her a horse riding party. Oh yeah. ye And one of the horses was a polo horse, a thoroughbred And her friends were like, Bab, you gotta try this horse. He's so lovely. He's like a deer, Bab. just get on this horse and she was like, great He was not like a deer. He threw her right off And she broke. multiple modes I remember hearing about this and being devastated I was like what happened to Madonna? What happened to Madonna? Yeah. What happened to Madonna is whatever happen what always happens to Madonna, she came back stronger. Totally broken bone often does. Well, I think it's I mean, she broke her collarbone like tenense. Yeah. But it's worth saying and this is one of my favorite aspects of Madonna. Madonna is like a professional athlete. L she is on a level of a professional athlete. Her body is a temple. She's so strong, She's so flexible. She's been doing professional dance aside from running, weightlifting, yoga to the max. like she is her body is so, so strong that I think a normal person would not have recovered from this the way she did where she's just like You know, one smooth year later, but that was me dancing for those who weren't on audio only and But she had to slow down She did. Are we going to talk about the David Letterman appearance when she came back No, I didn't write about it. You you tell me about it. Oh So she she has a famously fraught, you know, very fun relationship with Letteran. I don't know if you talked about talked her saying fuck forty eight times or whatever on that. Yeah he made fun of her hair and he was but you wearing a swim cap? Yeah. Absolutely epic back and forth. I love them sparring but to show her love because he truly did love and appreciate her. he He had her on as like one of her first appearances back and she rode a horse down like Broadway or wherever the studio was in a show of strength. Amazing. Amazing. And then of course, she made horses an opening theme of this tour. love. We will get there. Yeah. will my God. my arm ha and she was exciting. She was like, I still love horses. Horses can't get me down. Its also very funny. when she was in the hospital I read this that apparently allegedly reportedly Sky Richie was in the room But she screamed at him so much for morphine that he left I could see that. Be a man You stay No we't get into that.e nextext month, Guy Richie puts out his new film Revolver with Jason the Stathum. I don't know her. It was a flop. apppparently. I don't think even came out in America. One critic said, after Revolver swept away now looks like citizen Kane That's really just twisting the knife. It's hard. Yeah. Madonna biographer Lucy O'Brien quoted one of her friends, Anon, please, as saying, deep down, he blames her for his career noseedive because she got injured Maybe because' swept away. Oh o. I mean, I don't know. there's no further Okay, that would make a little bit more sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, you were the director Yeah I saw that movie She can be excellent on film. Don't blame her. You could have drag it. She looked hot. Yeah, She did her job Okay, all of this is kind of the background into which Confessions on a dance floor is released into the world on november ninth, two thousand five My first question is a top line question for you, Karen. Yeah Do you feel that confessions on a dance floor It felt as like lauded and appreciated at the time of its release as it does now where it's obviously considered one of her great albums. I think it became Canon later.. But it was definitely well received. Yeah. But it was not necessarily well received by me. I reviewed this album and I did not love it. Kare in prison. I know. This is of my biggest regrets. I've said this before, but now I will say it one more time thenen When they worried about albums leaking, they would make you come to an office and listen to it once., it's not possible to. It's not. I listen to it once. I will say Liz Rosenberg. I don't know how much you've talked about Liz Rosenberg quite a bit. What A abbsolute icon.. She was dancing to Sori in the room, while I was listening to it. a little distracting. I have to say because I love her so much. I was like, holy crap I just I did not fully get it. I was like, o, this is a corrective to American life, right? She's going back to the thing that she knows she has. the danceclor. She has gay men. She has this, she has that I thought was f I mean, I thought it was fine. but I did not fully until after it came out and I started experiencing it becausecause I went to the Rxy, we willll get there. Right. But I was there for one of her appearances and I was like, oh, now I understand. this is like a thing. This is like one I mean, I don't have to tell you because you're the you have lived this and I have only observed it, but like One of the greatest tragedies of music writing, which is why it's largely dead. is because they're like, oh, the internet's here. you need to write your review in six and a half minutes.. Oh, you can't even listen to the whole album actually, you have to put it out before you listen to the whole album. And then you get these like unhinged reviews, which's not even their fault, like because it takes me like For some al. I mean, some hit you right away This has definitely been a major drawback. Also just I don't know how much you've discussed this, but Madonna's entire career arc has traced like the entire rise and fall of music journalism and art' relationship to the press. Yeah. She gave so many interviews in the early days. Just think about how few interviews a Beyonce, for example, gave, right? Madonna talked to everyone all the time. than God She had that giant apertature interviews. She was talking to Time magazines, She was talking to local papers, She was on TV, all that she just she talked So you had all this insight into what she was thinking and she had a lot, you know, obviously, there was a lot of thought behind it suuper interesting, but yes, also with the review cycle. you can go through this, But she's had a lot of woes with the internet. A lot of woes starting you around American life E. Wh amongst us has had a lot of woes around the internet. That's true. But anyway, I do think it was seen as er very solid, but I don't think it became like true canon until a little bit later. which I do think has happened with quite a few of her. Oh yes. songs and albums. It's funny, just reminds me of like when we did in part three Ray of Light Famously Rob S Sheuffield gave it a bad review, and then the next like day or two came back and was like, I'm so sorry, I'm just kidding. I didn't get it. Was that his famous? She gets knocked up but she gets up again, one we're quoting. I do love you Rub. But I thought I took dooped my cap to that because I was like it takes a strong person to like admit they were wrong and come back and repubish. It recently came around on Mayhem I've heard a lot about it on the internet. It happens. sometometimes we make mistakes. It happens. Okay It did hit number one on Billboard. so you know, obviously it was She's still McDonald. Platinum, ye Also two thousand five is like This is one of my areas of interest Not because I like it because as you guys know famously, I think the decade of the two thousands is very ugly and disgusting and terrible. but because it's the no man's land of P people aren't Totally fully buying seeds. They are and they aren't. Yeah They are downloading songs for ninety nine cents off of the iTunes store. There is not proper streaming yet. Napster has come and kind of gone but there's like limeewire and all these kind of like Freaky will give you a disease to your computer like ripping sites. So like it's a very strange time for trying to understand charting. right? No, I agree with you Yeah only once and I don't know if it was a complete misunderstanding or someone was just lying, but I felt like I would ask you if you had any information on it. Someone said that this album was meant to be made with the Pethop Boys at one point. I was also one other thing that said that she had worked with Martin Gore from DePch Mode. These were things that I was not able to find more information about. I don't know a lot about that, but I know that she had like a great appreciation for Pethop And obviously there is s not sampling per se, but there is like a sort of homage. I was gonna to use that word. Yeah to some to some Cynthy I justed my mind went to a nice place where I was like, what would a pet shopys Madonna album sound like?' still time. There's still time babe Okay, Madonna said, even though I didn't know I wanted to make a record, I just thought this is what I would want to do with my free time at the moment. She did not mention that There was a Lupus on Sci fi, Candy Darling musical and Msine. I was working with other people as well. I worked with Mirrorways, but not eventually in the same capacity I had before because I wanted to do this quickly. He's great, but there's always the angst of collaborating with somebody. He's very intellectual, cerebral and I wanted an easy time. That's not to be a littleittle Stuart, but he's so relaxed and easy to work with, and I really needed that. It came out of not trying too hard I never planned to make my whole record with him honestly. It was just going to be a few tracks And then we I like the little details I don't think I wrote them in doock, but like Again, I think Stuart Price is like twenty six or something. Yeah, ye. And she would come to his house and he'd be like just woke up like in his socks and she'd be like, do you have food here? And then she would like send for someone to bring food from her like palatial estate or whatever and like feed him and then they would like work all night. She is mother. She's mother. Yeah. So This whole time, as you mentioned earlier, Madonna, the ultimate multitasker is also or has just come off of or it's a bit overlapping with editing I'm going to tell you a secret. There's sort of a lesser known our document for the tour that I in love. so yeah. Yes. It's kind of a great tour documentary. It's no truth or dare Nothing is ever going to be tr a thirdare. but it's It's quite a feast for the senses and it's a lot of insight into what's going on with Madonna at that time. Yes and guy Richie's in it which is better of a worse source of stress, Yes Fuck ass hat What are you golf kit? What is this hat? Anyways, he's English. I will defend the hat, but yes, he's English. I don't know why I came away from this with just like That man to me dead on site Love and respect. I said that with love and respect. Allegedly allegedly, reportedly Okay, so but I think it was very stressful because she had I've done three hundred and fifty hours of filming for this. The narrative is. It's interesting, right? It's like She's in such a different place in her career, two thousand five ready you? American L life, she was for four five. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. sorry, I was doing math on the fly. forty seven. So, you know, we're coming towards fifty People are dying. I know ame. People are dying to point that out at every fucking left right They've been pointing out since she was thirty, though. I think I reade a quote and episode two where someone like in the Guardian was like, thirty five, She better fucking think about packing it up and you're like, are you fucked And then you remember and I don't want you guys to remember that without Madonna ignoring people saying you're thirty five pack it up, have Killish was what thirty seven now I think I don't know, I just said off top it. She's definitely at least thirty five, I think. Yes. That's even no one looks Taylor Swt and says you're too old to do this. It wouldn't even cross one person's mind. And that's because of Madonna Yeah she kept going when people were like questioning her age. and so she's nertainally not gonna to stop now. But I'm just saying it's there in the her. Yeah Talk to me about the the sound and the theme of this album It's like falling in love, falling out of love, loving New York. looving Candy Dwling Controversial. That's a song. That is a song that they said it is from, which makes a real Okay that doest make sense because I mean Warhall. Yeah, Candy Darling in New York And you know, just like the lessons she's learned in life and during her career and reflecting on that and her relationship to fame. It's a very classic Madonna themed album. But you know, in the songs and also as reflected in the music it's like Madonna iss always at her best when she's singing about the dance floor. or like being on the dance floor. This is the thing. This is like, this is the place of her true origin Yeah. it's true. I think I agree. I think Mon think at her best when she's singing about truth L about her truth, you know, without obscuring it or without because there are later songs were It's kind of, in my opinion, feels like There was like a letdown to like a previous vulnerability. And so now it's like This? It's just vibes. Yeah. And that's fine, but I think she's such an evocative singer. She's such like open When when she wants to be and that's so easy to connect with for a fan like me. And then when she's kind of not doing that, I find those songs harder for me to relate. But totally makes sense. I feel like this is a very open hearted record.ike There's not a song on here where I'm like, I can't find a way into this lyrically. Yeah. I can crawl inside all of them Totally. Yeah. There's like a sense of escapism to me in this record which like everyveryone I think can relate to. Yeah. And also like but I'm like I mean, you're living in London, but you're writing an ode to how much you love New York. You know, these are this like tracks on the foundation. And later she will say the words like I felt trapped I was in prison or whatever and you're like, okay, so putting two and two together. In that vein, David Brown and Entertainment Weekly from his review said this one line, which I really thought was interesting. He said, Madonna without the marriage, the children, the British estate, such as the fantasy world conjured up in confessions on the danceoor. I don't think she was like wishing that she didn't have kids, but no, but that' I mean, the dance floor represents all this care free escape freedom, no cares, you know, every dance song is like, just dance around or your cares. Yeah no worry. J just go dance Um you know, Jesse Weare, who makes awesome disco albums is always like, yeah, I've got kids and a husband, but I'm dreaming up like life as a gay man, just twirling around under a disco ball and dreaming the dream. It's like That is the dream. and gay men, you live the dream Well They also have children and they do do They do and responsibilities and pay taxes. All of it, Babe. We all need a little escape It's true Richard Cromlin in the L.A Times who actually usually really love, said Confessions has a bratty ode to New York City, talales of forbidden love and futuristic love, empowerment anthems, and an ethnotrance diversion into Kabala centric introsction. We'll get to that I like that song I'm sorry, I don't care what anyone says That's a good song But it's actually pretty short on confessions. When she does go into self serious mode the album loses its charm I don't need her to confess She is confessing. I mean, she is in some ways, but like she's, you know, she's naked all the time. She's confessed a lot, man. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so she promoted this. Were you there by any chance? She promoted this album at Misshapes, shhout out, Misshapes. Luke and Lerise. I skipped misshapes because I went to the Roxie. Okay, okay. so you have to choose one How was the Rxy? Oh my Godd. It was insane Um My girlfriend at the time and all of their friends, they were at the Roxy every Saturday anyway and it was like Madalonna's going gonna be the rock. It was just like everyone's head was exploding. I think I got there at like one forty five AM and she came out at two And Fernando from Werner Brrosers, shout out Fernando went out for a cigarette, missed the entire thing, came back in That' how short it was. Yeah. It was like twenty minutes. I was, You missed the entire thing. I don't have any footage from this. I don't know if I didn't take any or if I lost it. I might have had a differental camera for. But I might have actually been enjoying myself because it was like two thousand five U and I was living It was amazing. She looked so good. This is like a peak Madonna appearance era. We're gonna talk about the hung up video, but like absolute peak hottness. She just looks so good. Also just like the fashion of it. like Patrick's not here unfortunately so I have to do my best, but you know, this is She's wearing in multiple appearances, press appearances, tour stuff versions of the same Leather bomber jacket. L loveve it. It's Gucci Resort two thousand six designed by Frida Gianini and these lace up knee high Sal Laon boots. and it's just like Perfect, she looks perfect. That she there Like I have a thing that's just like Madonna walking You know what I mean? Like she's just strutting in a very specific way. and in the hung up video, she is strutting in that jacket at one point. it's just like, is there anything better than Madonna simply walking Not much, notot much b I don't know This album broke some records. it charted in forty countries, which put it in the Guinness book of World Records for the most charts topped around the world by the same album. N. I think hung up also have the same records, like for the charts in forty one countries Pretty good reviews across the board, you know Um, Nobody really missed it except for Pitchfork, respectfully. six point two get fucked. I'm glad you didn't find my spin review because it's not really on the internet because it was oververwhelingly positive. Okay. Well, we'll put you next to the p work. I'm in confonfessions' jail for that one. Pis work was busy being like Animal collollective is the secondcond coming of God and Madonna, get out of here She wins a Grammy, Yes for the album, but Dan Electronic.. Lo to put her in them little hole. She's in a genre category. Yeah Also, I alluded to this, but I need to talk about it because I want to publicly shamed We're definitely still doing ageism. Oh, I mean, we're always doing aism. Yes This is from the Pitchwork review, which once again got it completely wrong Twenty years ago, Madonna was a postmodernist's dream. Her ability to transform herself from song to song and from album to album became a proclamation of self nullifying empowerment. I don't like that word self nullifying I think it's wrong, giving her the ability to create a stationary persona out of shifting identities However, by the start of the nineteen nineties, Madonna's transformations appeared more calculated as she aged. and fell behind the curve trying to predict the next dominant style instead of confidently setting it Incorrect. That is not right. That's all right. With confessions on a dance for her fourtehbum, M Donna again reinvents herself and appears she's nearly laughed herself Her latest iteration is a pre Madonna Th makes a little joke for himself, Primadonna. Disco Vixen, basking in a seventies musical style that she herself, among others, helped to morph and displace in the eighties, allowing her to accessorize creatively, love that wrap aroundound top This new persona has the potential to be immensely entertaining. There's something a little sad about it too At forty seven, Madonna is playing the role of someone twenty five years younger, and those retro space leotards and that feathered hair only make her look more mature and matronly, like your friend's mom dressed up embarrassingly for Halloween. I will fucking kill you reportedly allegedly I mean, she's really, it's again, peacot is. Imagine looking a misread looking at this Honey, You know like If you're not attracted to women, that's okay. You could just say you're not attracted to women. We don't have to write a six thousand word pitchfork piece I feel like pitchwork at that era felt like they had to position themselves against her Well you don't have to say she looks old. Well, obviously, I agree, but yes I can I can e Tiny Honey, have you seen a matrix? Actually I don't know a major have you seen a major I' like the women who work in the bathrooms at the Roxie Also this makes me w want to kill myself. I'm like, I have never looked that good. so am I majorly? Okay, let's get into the music. Okay. The first single was obviously hung up october seventeenth, two thousand five Did you know that it was first heard in a TV spot for Motor, iTunes enhanced mobile phone. I don't remember you guys were I remember the rocker. If you're young which we have some young audience I don't think I can express to you that before iPhone was basically the only phone besides, I guess, like some people have an Android, there was a new cell phone every six minutes You I had one. I had a trio, I had a sidekick. I had a razor. I had several razors because I kept getting drunk and leaving them in cabs. Right? like guess, the rock there was just nonstop Motorol Star Tack. that was so little. And I have all these purches from the two thousands where they have the special pocket that's that size And rocker was you remember it? I don't remember. I do remember it But also this is sort of like peopleeople were promoting things for ones Yeah. People were doing that Oh yeah, not Ringtones were a thing. Like ring was a real Ringtones were like a billion dollar industry. Yeah. I made that number up and I think it's right. I actually did have hung up as a ringtone now that I just said that out loud. On your Motor Star Tax? No on a Samsung, but I did have it on my Samsung flip phone. Wow. It was a different time. Also, I think the first Madonna song ever available in the iTunes store Even though Sunes had been around for two years. She was skeptical. Wh she said that the money wasn't good enough. She said the deal was not good. That very protot Taylor who fought for everyone's rights on Spotify. Oh Spotify Hi, sorry. Apple Music. Apple music, it was Apple music.'s out. Yeahah. Don't remove me. You're removed. This podast is actually just gonna me talking to myself This was her thirty sixth top ten hit So she tied with Elvis Presley I mean, this is like a career making banger It's so good. I love this song so much How could you not Impossible not Also just like the sample so inventively used. It's like reinvented. compleompletely in a new context. If you force yourself, you can hear the original song in it, but like it so naturally fits into the new song I just like so of with samples, I'm like, this makes sense why youre jamming this. You're trying to make an illusion to that song. It was like, no, I am inventing something new with dance music. Stewart Pris is an obsoolute gen geniia.. alsoso just need to point out this is only the second time ever because ABA' is notoriously like No, I recall that she had to ask herself. She had to ask herself. You know what the first sample was? I mean, you know, becauseuse it's in my do But I'll tell you, It's the Fujis Rumble in the jungle from nineteen ninety six. They sampled the name of the game I'm surprised they let that go. The foodies were very big then th. Yeah. And you know, Abba has a good taste. Yeah. They were like, theseese are people who are cool Madonna said, we were writing and we were like, okay, we want to make the ultimate pop dance record We listened to lots of AbbA records and lots of Georgia Maroter, which we'll get into also. We kept going through stuff and soaking it up and ultimately AbbAa found its way into our psyches I think they might have had doubts about letting us sample their record. I had to send my emissary to Stockholm with a letter and the record begging them and imploring them and telling them how much I worshiped their music, tellelling them it was an homage to them, which is all true. And they had to think about it. Benny and Bjorn, they didn't say yes right away. They never let anyone sample their music. They could have said no, thank God, they didn't. And I saw an interview with them where they were like, well, we had to hear the song. the song was amazing. Right I mean, these are real deal. Yeah He didn't just sample The piano, he also does like a synth version of it. L it's just it's so cool what Stuart Price did with this song And then the three layers of vocals, which are like Madonna, Madonna, and then voc hoder, which is also Madonna And I love that it's about impatience which is like cllassic Madonna Hllmark. This woman does not like to wait. No. No. How do you think she got this career? She does not wait, TikTok TikTo. I also like this is I mean, she's done it kind of her whole career, but we really get into an era of Madonna referencing back to herself. And so The u First verse references her one of my favorite Madonna songs, the nineteen eighty nine. song with Princes, love song. Time goes by slow slowly for those who wait Well hung up is incredible. Yeah. So the video was directed by Johan Rink, it's kind of a tribute to John Trabolta in his various dance films, obviously, most famously pooly Saturday Night Fver Here' a here's a thing. There's no one on earth that I can identify at the level of Madonna, who is a bigger proponent of crumping and parkore. mostly parkore She is the world's leading Parkcor advocate, her and Michael Scott from the office I guess. So this video features famed crumper moss Pissy U I did dig up, don't worry, a two thousand five AOL chat. between Anthony Ketas and Madonna in promotion of this album. They used to do that. This was like AoL. com presents wow, an aM chat. between Madonna confesses with a K RH Anthony CP Here's just a snippet. Madonna confesses said, there's something raw theatrical, something Shakespearean crumping RH Anthony CP, Anthony Katas. Crumping is a great way to communicate with spirits of love. I don't know what that means. I don'tither b. But you know what? there's something Shakespearean about crumping. That my takeaway was from that Okay, the next song is on the album is actually the third single get together. There are somes like Swedish pop wizards on this album and they emerge first here. Do you know much about Pure Astrom and Anders Bag I don't they're not they're not the Swedish pop wizards I know the most about But They did they fucking snapped on this shit. Yeah So this I thought was very interesting This sat song, which is perfect and I love it so much originally actually featured an interpolation of the baseline from future lovers, which itself is a sort of a homage or sample or whatever I feel love But because once they were like finalizing the album, they had two songs that had the same sort of basasseline, one had to be dropped. It was obviously not going to be Im trying to picture this song with that bassline. That's interesting. And so Stuart, so I think I don't know what happened. All I know is they didn't remix it. Stuart Price remixed it. Okay. and he remixed it with that Stardust. Music sounds better with you baseline sample that he had actually also used on the drown World Tour when they reimagined holiday which itself samples Jaca Chn's faith. But anyway, so that's what Stewart did with this song Bless Stewart, I know. I love this song. So great I like it with that. I think it's really cool. Yeah. I love that effect of her voice harmonizing with herself all over the place Obviously, I love Adonna and Niki But there is something very special about Madonna The next song is the second single sorry I mean, I'm just to say the same thing. I love I love every song. almost every song. actuallyct, hold on I'm going to say that Y'all mind if a white girl speaks of Espaniel Just S desesolet Part seven. Well, I'm just saying this is one of my greatest theories Vent tropic. It's not a Madonna album. She doesn't speak a little bit of Spanish. Yeah. Yeah, there's a bunch of languages on here Thank you for asking French, Spanish, Italian, Dutch, Hebrew, Hindi, Polish, and Japanese. Although actually the Dutch that she uses B Droveig roughly translates to I am sad and is not actually a correct way to say I'm sorry, but who told her, Wh who told her that some Dutch person During that same AOL interview withith Anthony Gides Madonna justified the usage of the other languages by saying, everything sounds better in another language I would disagree I don't think sound better. It's a little global tourismy I think something sounds better in some ways it just depends on the language. Yeah. Dutch U You just lost your entire Dutch listenership. All six of you are like out of here. I don't know, the Australians still listen and I'm unfair to them This bassline was inspired by a Can you feel it? by the Jackson Five allegedly reportedly Yeah. interestnteresting. Yeah, It's a killer baseline Are you familiar with Stuart Price's two thousand four remix of What youre Waiting for by Gnestondi, one of the greatestong of all time? I'm not familiar with the remix God you, I love that song though That's so good. Another TikTok. love that. that used to be on my running playlist. It's a really good running song. Anywways, on this song and on that song he uses the same sort of cracking noise like a baseball hitting a back. So it's a two hundred forty four mark on this song if you guys want to ahead This one this song has a pet shop boys remix whichich is incredibly good. It's incredibly good, not just because theet shop boys remix it because Neil Tennant put himself on it 'use he said he always wanted to do a d with Mv. Okay, that's adorable. I love that and the video. The video is fun. I don't remember the video We're in a van? Oh I do. I do. Picking up some cool men. That's She likes to be in a car picking people up. This is like a definitely recurring Madonna video. Madonna as Uber dririver. Yeah. ye. They have a boom box. they end up at a roller ring. She also loves the boom box. These are yeah. We're there. And she loves a roller ring Okay, the next song is Future loovers This is an example of like my Donna could put out an album and I'll be like, okay, and then I see the show and I'm like, Oh. It's so true. So many songs were transformed for me in this particular era by watching them performed live where I was like didn't really grab me when I listened to the album. And so this is one for you. one hundred percent, making this the opener. of the confessions t her when She's in this gigantic disco ball and it claws itself open and she's standing there, holding a riding crop And on the official video she put out with like a cute little evil smile, o my God, I thought I was going to die And then they mix it right into Donna Summers I love they literally, the mixes for this tour were Unbelievably epic But you know, Madonna always had unique mixes for Tour because she she does not like to repeat herself. She wants to be interesting interested in her own work. Yeah,'s not she's not doing a greatest hits. No review, which is why celebration really was interesting and we we will eventually get there. But yeah, no this song is so killer. Here's a fun one. This one also, I believe repedly allegedly written for The Candy Darling unmade musical. I actually see that because it's got this like really long spoken word intro where it's like almost like it's theatrical and then it really has a drop when the verse comes in. Totally The baseline. on a summerar Ione, but also inspired by the score part of the score of the Luke Bisson two thousand three film District thirteen, which is about, that's right, parkcore. Oh my God stars David Bell, the founder of Parkor. But the point back to District thirteen is that there is a dotted baseline synth in the score by this guy D Octopus And this also has that dotted baseline. So Yes. pixelated kind of like to do. Oh, it's so good Okay, the next song is we got to talk about it. I don't like cities I like New York. Other places make me feel like a dork. Los Angeles is for people who sleep Parris in London Baby you can keep. Here's the thing. She was right about Los Angeles and I do love to sleep and I will stay there because I love sleeping She's not wrong. It's just I remember hearing this. So to me, Madonna Cringe era begins with American life with the wrap on the. I love that rap. I love it, but there is an element of cringe to it. I feel okay, My argument would be that the American life wrap is meant to be cringe because it's satire because she is satirizing a kind of person who would say those things That's my That was very Axel Rose's excuse for saying some really bad slurs on a onene in a million. I was playing a character I sure. She didn't say slur. No, I know. I' said Mini Cooper and soy latte. I know. No yes. I latte. I thought I was very proto Kescha TikTok, which is also what I said. I feel like like when Kesha did it on TikTok, everyone loved it. I don't mind her rapping, but I do think that it was it introduced for the first time to me I had never cringed at her before. I'd never seen her be like a little bit outside the cool boox.. And I was actually, when I thought I was talking about American life, I was mapping how old she was when she made that to Robin's seistential rap Okay Ditely a year apart That's the one that just came out. Yes, yeah Anyway, I had a hard time with Just with that, just like a little bit of cringe from a person who is just so perennially cool. So I love New York. It just took me so aback. ' I was like, what are you doing? It has grown on me. I love it. It's a favorite now. But I remember when I was reviewing this album, I was like, what the hell is she thinking? I kind of feel like if she just had not said the word Dork. Yeah. Dork has said had this conversation Other places always make me mad places sad. I never love it Yeah. I mean, that really that's the word. You don't want that word. Yeah. You know what I'll always go back to is that I do think that Madonna at her heart is a comedian and has a very specific sense of humor. I did see you speaking about this in prior episodes and I do agree. There was a very funny line in Christopher Shaconei's book where he like mentions that like she's constantly making bad jokes and everyone has to laugh at them becausecause they're scared of her and almost like that relelatable. Me too She is funny, but she's so she has a very specific sense of humor. But I would put this more in cringe than humor Okay But again, great song. But it''s yeah, it's listen it's Kandy Darling mus a bioppeic. if she's playing charitters. And Kandy Darling feels like a dork or felt like a dork when she was in other cities. I mean, I can see that. And this is a song, you know, Madonna loves to play electric guitar starting around this era, and she plays electric guitar to this a lot I've been getting into a new hobby of mine Parkor, J king. No, it's responding to mean comments or corrective comments on Instagram. It used to raise my blood pressure and now I just enjoy it Let's you see Don't read the comments. No, But sometimes now it's fun because I'm like don't try me. You think I didn't do. You think I didn't make six hundred page Google document. You think I don't know what I'm talking about? 'cause they wanna well actually me to death? Well, you know, just like Matanonna. It's sexism and agism. So someone came and was like, Oh, really guitar ' I had talked about her prior pre Madonna era bands and And oh I think this is fake news because she famously had to learn guitar in the two thousands and I was like she like relearned guitar. I was like crushed out. Yes Just because she knows how to play guitar, I know many friends who play guitar who need to get better at it. Guitar is an incredibly difficult instrument. You can play remedial guitar and make plenty of music that way Have you ever heard of powerower chords, bab You'd pop punk Those people can't trered? No. So she wanted to play at a level that she could perform in concerts Bch Okay, anyways, that was my just aside. H hereere's what Madonna said about I live New York. the person was like, Oh, it's very funny. And she said, Oh, I don't mean that. I love London in Paris and hello. I live in London. It just sounded cool Ohh, I wrote the song when I was in New York on tour. I have a history with New York that I don't have anywhere else in the world. Even though I grew up in Michigan, I grew up in New York . Then she goes on in a part where she was like actually it was an homage to the police and then I had to skip that because of makeup There's sirens, please sirens on that song. And I'm often driving to that song and I'm immediately looking at my Yeah E time. Alexis Petritis and the Guardian said, I love New York. Maybe the most agreeably ridiculous name Madonna has ever released. Tim Poni, a rift stolen from the Stooges, I wantan to Be Y your dog, and a Louie deead pan Those all sound good to me. I mean, it works. I like it. Yeah. The next song is Let It Will Be. This one is a Mirorway song but also wrad with Stuart Price I actually really like this song. I did too. Yeah someomeone was trying to criticize to I don't want to use the word preoccupation, that's not the right her sort of like dealing with the theme of fame not being satisfying or fame being Like have you heard of any pop star contemporary pop star, this' all people s think about. This Drake's entire career.'re like they're like, oh, if she invented it and I'm like, okay pick something. Do you want an artist to write honestly about their experience or do you not? Because that's what happens when that's your experience. Also very few people were and has ever been as famous as Madonna. No. and also actually Whoever it was whose name I can't remember. In two thousand five, not so much, but now I think that's an incredibly relatable sentiment for a lot of people who have, you know, microed to minimal amounts of fame via the internet, you know and and more people than ever are chasing it. And I don't think it's a bad thing to hear Guess what? It sucks. Although sometimes it doesn't suck. Sometimes someone like buys you a nice thing and sends it to you. Like the sex book, I believe, right? Thank you so much, Andrew Garrison Ill love you b. I wouldn't never said I get that. He said I could use his full name. I know. It inspired me to buy my own. I' never had it. I went on eBay, and I started like frrantically scouting them after you receed yours as a gift, a gift. Can you even believe? I love it so much. I was paging through it actually the other day in bed. It's so wonderful. I did not open m, it's sealed. I had to I' have to buy a second. I was like, I'm not doing this. I'm not leaving it open. I'm not leaving it unopen. I wantan to go and lookpect. Yeah, Maybe. We used to look it on the bus in middle school It was salacious. Wh had it in? I cannot remember dad Somebody had it and I was like, o my God. Yeah. my uncle had it. and I remember we were like on here. But then when I revisited it now and I don't want to maybe like I'm too porn brained or whatever, but like I was like, this is not that bad. this is actually like so tame compared to like what I was imagining One thing about Let It willill be, Madonna said it's kind of expressing the same theme of the opening of my film. There's more to life than fame and fortune. After all the years I've been famous, twenty two years or something, I don't remember. I know that sounds like a really stupid thing to say but likeike I can't remember, but it's just been this immensely long ride. and I just feel like I've earned the right to be able to step back and look at it and say it is what it is. I don't feel cynical about it. I don't feel overjoyed by it. I don't feel let down by it. It just is what it is. That's the road I took, less traveled by. And hopefully I've made the best of it It's a very thoughtful statement I think so too. Yeah Forbidden love Isn't it so interesting that she used the same Title of one of her existing songs off bedtime stories She can do whatever she wants, as she said. She said, I did all of that on purpose. If I'm going to plagiarize somebody, it might as well me me right. I feel like I've earned the right to rip myself off That's funny. ye I like this song a lot. I'm love this song. I liked the choreography at the tour whereere they were like doing like the arm tango. Yeah representing peeace in the Middle East Alb be Islam. Listen, the thing is about this is This was still and I think for Madanonna always, but maybe it changes a little bit when we get further on. This is an album that's meant to be consumed as a whole. Yeah. And so you need pacing.. So you do. is beautiful song to have the pacing like kind of catch your breath first. We'reaking a smoke right. Yeah. We're on the dance floor, but we need to get a drink, you know, we need to fix our hair, powder our nose Okay, the next is the Karen Ges. Oh my God. peeak, the apex of Honestly, Jump is like one of It's not my number one. It might be my number one. It's like my top three Madonna songs ever. This is my opportunity to be like unsung hero of a lot of Madonna tracks that I love. Joseph Henry, Bib. Joseph Henry What a weapon And your brother a relative. I know. I mean, like right there Oh my God. I literally I listened to this song so much before I quit my job recently that I can't even tell you. Here I go. Yeah, it's a fantastic song. has a great message. Also obviously I'm me, so anything that has a little guitar on it and I'm like, you had me hello. I thought you're gonna to say parkour because it's a Parkour v as, you know, the second biggest advocate of Parkour. behind the guy behind invented it. Yeah. No, behind it. done it This is the song that I' talking about that the strings are inspired by Western girls Oh, so if you listen to it ye it really has a very similar shimmering s right in it. Yeah. it's so good. It's just There's alm so much you can learn in one place, as you said. Yeah The longer I wa time that I waste I have heard the song in the Wild twice in the past month Once at Zanadu Roller Rink my friend Metrx's album releaseed party coincidentally. and then at u coming recently And I was like, the song is literally, it's like Speaking to me directly. I' gonna tell you what you need to follow Karen Ganans on Instagram. com because this woman is out here in these streets. Every day, I'm like, Karen Amazing. She's having a different kind of martini and going to a different musical event and I'm like, I haven't been outside in six days. This is the difference between New York and LA. literally it's the table. like a dork Um ye, Jump is great. Also you can read I think you can read the messaging in several ways, right? It's like, It can be leaving a thing or it can be entering a thing together. you know, likeike let's jump into. So you gott to take a risk You have to you have to make change in your life. You have to go all in. I love every message of the song. Love it. Yeah. fan as a Joe Henry. Let's fucking go. King Also very clever. I'm sorry I like it to go straight into how high. I know. And I also love how high it's one of my favorites. These are your Swedes that you were talking about before Bloodhhey Nant, who, yes, famously want to grammy for writing Toxic with Brittney Brittney with Brittney I'm not I dont she' writ. I' gonna go with four. Yeah. They actually were not there at the Grammy to accept it because they were with Madonna working on this album. I didn't know that. That's amazing. Madonna said, although She obviously was familiar with Britany because they did a song together. Me A againainst the music I bring that up to say because she had said she had found Bloodhhey Avant because Luris was listening to a lot of Rachel Stevens, an arts I'm not familiar with, know who Blood Chey and Avant also produced and Brittneany. and she liked what she heard But she obviously already knew Brittneym was talking Rachel Stevens. Man. When I went to review that Brittney album for Span a million years ago, I heard a version of that song without Madonna on it, and they were like, oh, we're going to add a guest. So then when I heard the real thing, I was like, oh my Godd. alsoso that video with the two of them. wonderful. Peak. It's wonderful. It's a great song. Yeah ye I was just, this is a cute moment I had this morning with the barista at my hotel coffee shop There was two baces. One walked by just singing Brittneany Spears And then he walked away and I was like I'm sing that Brittie. He was like Oh, I know, right? a bop And then I forgot I was wearing this Madonna t shirt and he goes, by the way, I love your t shirt. And I was like, I know. And at the same time weit I'm not joking, we said, She's the bllueprint. I was and he was like I was like Wow. I love New York. I love New York. so true. But I love this. it's funny I spent my whole life wanting to be talked about I did just about anything to see my name and lights Yeah was all worth it You know I can relate. And then noobbody's perfect. I guess I deserve it. Once again, quoting herself. quoting herself from Nobody's perfect and I deserve very direct music Yeah This is not about age in the sense of like what you can and can't do. I think it's more about like of someone's life, this is around the time where you might start to look back and assess What's happened Well she's also like, can I do more? Is there more for me? What will I accomplish? And this is again with the bllueprint thing. It's like almost everything in pop music, she pioneered. People were not making albums like this at her age. I mean, I'm not a agist, but like it's just no one had really done it. Women. They weren't allowed. No So she's like, she's carving the path, She's trying to figure out what is left for me to do Will there be room for me? How will I make it happen? And thank God this happened because again, like we kind of touched on this, but she didn't want to make another out maybe ever. But this time she was like, u She was busy. I'm making a sci fi musical about Candy Darling's dementia Wh I really canan someone just make that anywways It's gonna to happen now. It's going to happen now Let's spar. I love it. I love Isaac. I don't love Isaac. I think okay. I'm not to be like, whatever. I'm Middle Etern. So to me, this is like' just gonna make me feel like crap for now. I just I just think it like no, that's fine. It just like for me, there's a familiarity and this shit hits for me. L I love how I love the music. I love the melody. I just like this it's giving to me. It feels like it would have f fit really well on like ray of light I agree with that. Yeah. I just found it jarring to hear another person's voice like suddenly because it's so like deep in her. it's like the wholebum is sorobby and womom like, and you're in the club whatever and then suddenly it's like, you're One of the songs, one of the bonus tracks was meant to be in that spot. end up removing it for some reason That's this was the last song to be added to the album. So I get I can see what you mean that it's like feels lightly out of place. But also just like a white girl's gonna to speak to Mespagignol Madonna's gonna put some Godd up in this bitch. Not opposed to that. but it does feel like this is the turning point where the album changes direction a little bit. and the last three songs are kind of like a little bit. you're taken out of the the vibe, a teeny teeny bit. Well It's not a bad song. I just It's jarring. I'll put it. I'll put it Primal scream Scream andelica, askk her E Delga You know, perhaps it's in an arc of a night out, you know? and the night out doesn't continontue, at some point it winds down never ends never the roxy till ten AM. Okay That's all I'm saying I will mention Isaac you know had some controversy, I think, because there also is nood on album without controversy There was a group of rabbis in Israel saying it was blasphemous. U before they even heard the record. The song is named after Yidak Sanwani Who is the singer singing in the Yemenite And it's a popular Yemeni song called I Nin Nalu And he's saying if all of the doors of all the generous people's homes are closed to you, the gates of heaven will always be open I mean, that's nice That's nice. Yeah The next song is push I really don't have too much to say about it I didn't write one note on it. I wrote It's not's again, like I like it and while I'm listening to the album. there's not a part where I'm like, you know, like It's like a nice way to like sort of like wind the album down This is it's just there And then the last album on the regular release is Like It or Not, which is also written with Stewart and Bloodshy and Navant U This song always reminds I really like this song actually, I don't know maybe that's a It reminds me of her version of fever off of erotica. That is what I wrote in the review, right? That a fever biting closer. Yeah. But I said it offered a neutered retread of her Rison Detre This is who I am. You can like it or not. I guess I like the other songs in that vein a little bit more. But I do appreciate her like never gonna to stop. I mean, like this is she's relentless Madonna is impatient and she is relentless. I love these qualities. I do think also like like the framework of like, this is who I like who I am, you can like it or not, you can love me or Ly because I'm never gonna to stop becomes like way more sharpened in focus by like what we hear about later with the ending of her marriage and how she said she felt and how she like kind of had to fight to like be herself and do what she wanted, you know And I just like how it sounds. I like the sound of it. I like it Okay, then the bonus tracks are fighting spirit which again, the instrumentals of that one was maybe from Hello Suckers super pop, also maybe from Hello Suckers, originally called Funny Game and History, which was maybe written for that candy Darling musical Personally, I'm not that into bonus tracks. Okay On this one, M know, but on some of the other albs, I'm like, I need to read sequence this album and you guys fucked up. D definitely Rebble Hart. We'll we'll get there All right. so after on the, you know, Madonna's back on top of the world. I've seen people refer to this as her third imperial phase I could do that. Yeahah It's defertainly the third, I mean, her whole career is littered with peaks, but I think this is one of the third major peaks. There was like genuine excitement about this when it actually was started to get out in the world. Yeah. So then two thousand six when she shows up at Codachella It was like the place went off. Yeah, and you were there. So right before that she did the Grammys. Yes, which I want to just mention because it's fucking so cool because it's with the gorillas as holograms and then herself as a hologram dancing around them until she appears in that purple dolangabono coursese. It's so sick, you can watch it on YouTube. And I'm also like, I love the gorillas cartoons. I just think it was cool But yes, and then in April, she surprised everyone at Coachella in the Sahara Tent. Well, I think it was announced. It was annouced Because I was out there I was interviewing people for some photohoot for GQ I had just gotten Fired from sppin, I think, yes. becausecause you were mean to Madon. No, no, no, because someone bought it and fired all of us, and again, the story of media in this era. And everyone I interviewed, I was like, we excited to seeing everybody I was was like ilo like everyone's like Madonna, we all got to see Madonna. And I' like, this is going to be crazy. I gott to get over and it was a dance tent. She was not headlining. She was on main stage. was like It was dark, but it was not It was not like, you know last night the last set of the night, and I couldn't even get anywhere near the tent. I was watching it on a big screen. I sent you some of my grainy one megapixel. I literally was like, wasas this filmed on a black Bay? I don't understand. Definitely it looks like that. I have like seven more clips that look like that. and it is insane. And I mean like you hear screaming. I'm like, is it me? Who's screaming? There's a screaming She looks unbelievable. I remember at one point someone spilled water on the stage and shelled at them because she's like, I'm gonna to break myck You know, spill water on my stage and then people were like, you know, drying it off It was actually insane, but like the energy everywhere was just nuts. It was like, it was Madachella It just it just happened. Also, two thousand five was still like the salad days of Coachella. It was like really a wonderful time. I didn't go that year It was still like normal. It was so much fun. It was two days, it was one weekend. Yeah I personally saw Griv Armada in that same tent in two thousand three and I did lose my ever living mind too Super silent, but yeah, that turn iss not big. No, it really it felt like a true moment and it felt like Madonna owned everything once again. And I was so excited Yeah, I think again, I think this is another apex and then you get into the tour. Yes, which you want to. Oh my God. I love this tour so much. This is my favorite Madonna tour. It's so well done. Again, I wasn't there, but I've watched it multiple times on the V and computer. It starts may twenty first, two thousand six and ends september twenty first, two thousand six, grossed nearly two hundred million dollars, deserved every penny. That point' the most ever for a tour by a woman artist secondecond only to the Rolling stones that year. She just keeps breaking that record over and over and over again. Stuart Price is back is musical director, Donna DLorei Um, came back, she had a three year old child and she said, I'll only come if you give me a car for my nanny and my child. move on I was like, done And then Nkki Richards is doing Mac and Mills because our other Nicki. no longer Rin with She replaced her with another Nkki. She doesn't want to remember another name, which I actually understand is someone who can't remember anyone's names. This I love Yassies fashion corner, sorry, Patrick's not here so I have to do it. For the first time since Blonde Ambition, Jean Paul Gautier would be the sole designer of this show, which is very cool because at the time he's the creative director, Hermes He made that shoulder birken that I love and if anyone wants to gift me, I'm here to receive. This is very cool because it fits perfectly with the equestrian themes in the Nut. I mean, what's more equestrian than Arermetz, you know? likeike ugh evenven I will say yes. L. I love that. that coming together. There's a bunch of new dancers, but I'll just point out one or two of them. One Charmaine Jordan, also known as Charm Ladonna Hm She was seventeen years old when she was recruited to join this tour. There was a former Ballerina turned break dancer named Sophia Batella, and then Sebastian Foukon Okay, I know. He's the one who does Parkour in the hung upp video. I love I love in all of the Madonna Tour movies where you see the scenes of her casting the dancers and how seriously she studying them And how good she is at Her eye is so good. She doesn't choose the best possible dancers. She chooses the most interesting people, which is so major. Also, I just want to point out, Sebastian Fouan. I don't know if you guys have seen Casina Royaal He is the he is the parkarer The man parkoring and the opening chasing. Parkcour was really big for a second around this time. And There's two Parkours dancers on the shore. Anyways,'s not important So tell me more about the tour. Can I talk to you about some of my favorite moments? Yes. I have a list of them becauseuse I rewashed it Of course. Okaykay, obviously I already referenced when the discco ball splits open and she's there. I was just like, I mean, I think the entire place levitated. Also The disco ball came down from the ceiling And I was like, I don't know what I was on, but I was like, o my Godd, was she up there the entire time? No, she was probably below the stage and popped up into the disco ball. But for like an hour, I was like, she was up there the ent. She's just on her phone. She she's on her rocker. Shes blesses.. I was like, oh my god. Okaykay so that was one of them. Live to T tellell on the Mirrrored Crucifects, which made the Vatican so mad. When I watched that, first I was like With her arms's amazing. Theinn the crown farms and the crown, but they got the mic just like coming out ' she has no hands becausecause they're pinned.'s because she's crrispy Chrispy I love guitar, Madonna. so she does, I love New York and she does Ray of Light, which I could you know I didn't love this She starts her doing Ray of Light only on guitars. Yeah, which just like kind of pisses me off because that to me is not a guitar. That's kind of like it. We disagree there. You and Madonna. We areree That's the one thing I'm like, no, Ray of Light is just like a shimmery I do gooy song I mean, obviously, it couldn't be. You just want to see her do this. I do. Oh my God. I have no idea. whichich is actually least the exact next one. The unhinged dancing on Let It Will Be, where she's just kind of like stuttering around with just the mic. She's in like a black t shirt and jeans and I'm like sureure There's a couple more, I'm sorry. No, please. But the next one is her pe Music infer now It's so good. Where she is literally the dancers are roller skating to music. Then she comes out in like a white Saturday night fever suit with Donna and Nikki, which now I know the other one is in Nicki too. Did't know And then she's just like literally like disco pointing and like bopping down. and that's hands off. She removes the suit. She opens it. Yeah. Oh my Godd. One of when I worked at Rolling Stone, I literally would make people come into my office and watch this on YouTube I'd be like, have you seen music You can't be my friend until you've watched music. No. People from Rolling Stone, if you remember this moment, I would literally bring people into my office and close the door and be like we're watching this. It's important. It's indoctrination. This is canon. It's amazing. Oh my God, I love that moment There's it ends with a hung up lucky star mix where she is blending Lucky Star with the hung up baseline and track It's so. I mean, you Twers do not get better than this I also just love, I'm such a Stuart Price fan. Yeah because he's hot, but like just him in the background he's always kind of like doing something while smirking. Yeah like Djing while smirking, playing guitar, smirking. also he can do everything. Yeah,'s a big fan ot this tour epic Epic. It's really great If you could time travel and see one Madonotur, what would it be? Oh blond ambisition. Same Yeah Obviously I think that's the inc correct answer Okay good, okay. Yeah. yeah. I mean they're all good obviously. That's the one that does like reinents what a pop show is. Yes, exactly. Well, I think like, again, blueprinted it. Yeah, I mean, one hundred percent, Gndom All right, so She's high. She's not not off drugs. She's famously quite u sober as a judge during this time, but she takes her second trip to Malawi. The previous fall She had received a phone call from a businesswoman from Malawi named Victoria Keelen who had heard about Madonna's program, spirituality for kids. L this was a cabbala related situation It kind of sounds like a racket, but yeah. It sounds like one eight hundred cars for kids. We recently had a bit of scandal. I don't know if you know that a judge allegedly reportedly, because I'm not paraphrasing a tweet, but find them because they present the ads with eight children of various ethnicities and actually they only give the money to Jewish children. Real Orthodox Judual. I didn't know that Nothing to see there. one hundred cars per kids spirituality for kid Madonna said that this woman, Viti Killin was like, if you're in the business of helping children, we have over a million orphans here in Malawi and the problem is insane I believe she also said the Madonna was like, I don't even know where Malawi is and the lady was like, looking it up on a map and hung her up hung her up hung up on her whichich is kind of sick. I mean, who talks to Madonna like that go to kill him is just like I don't care about you right now. We have a million orphans So that is Madonna went ahead and looked at a map and did some research and ended up creating a foundation called Raising Malawi. I'm like really speeding this because this is I mean, it's part of the story, but I don't think it's like incredibly pertinent.. with a focus on supporting Malawi's orphans and vulnerable children, and she had gone one time that past April to visit the country. At this time on her second visit Kabala Center in Los Angeles, which she was heavily involved in was underndergoing some pretty intense scrutiny over Mismanaged funds, I believe, reportedly allegedly and critics were using this as a way to devalue Madonna's turnnal efforts. This allll never understand. I'm like, why are you coming for a person's charitable efforts? She literally is just giving millions of dollars to try to help things. And you're like, can you believe this fucking bitch This is how people treat him with donut. L even the kindest things were seen with skepticism And then the prospected up on a news story which was that There was a potential adoption effect. On october fourth, a Malawi government spokeswoman announced that Madonna intended to adopt a baby boy She'd been making a documentary in Malawi, directed by Nathan Risman. This I love This I am because we are. I am because we are. I just needed to know Nathan Risman had been her gardener And the reason that she adoppped him. This is I love Madonna. Is that just like LA. though Like everyone in LA. is is London. Oh, it is. okay. He had made movies of Lordis and Rocco while Madonna was away and sent them to her so to cheer her up. And she's like, these are good, you should direct a movie. I just feel like this is Madonna's one of her greatest talents. Scouting. Scouting and tapping people like Alec Kashensian a hadn't basically done anything, you know? Like he was a Harvard graduate with a thesis and a couple of things. And she was like, you will do my biggest tour documentary. You will set the tone for every music documentary. Exactly.es So that Nathan Risman was hired for I am because we are, which I'm so sorry I did not watch I mean, I saw a million years ago but I justt love saying I am because we are, I've said that for years and it's fun. I believe it's a translation of a Malawi sentiment or. I'm sure it's something very serious and I am making a mocker of it, but That's fine, Karen. It's fine. You already said you don't like Midle Eastern music and' mocking the Malawi language and here to be canceled. Okay, so anyways She hadd watched all these videos that were coming from Nathan Risman from Malwawi over and over and she had become really feeling a connection to the children of them, particularly a baby boy called David Banda So she finally goes there and meets the thirteen month old at homeome of Hope Orphanage where he had already survived malaria and tuberculosis and at the time was having active pneumonia He had been born into a family that lost two of his three children to malaria, and his mother, Marita, had died six days after giving birth to him And his father, Johan Banda was basically had no money and was desperate and was like, I can't care for this five week old child. And so he placed them in the orphanage. Um and october twelfth The courts gave him Dononna permission to assume temporary custody of David and take him out of the country while the adoption process continued. This also caused some controversy. I just remember this was like a shit show. Yeah Human rights activists were saying that Madonna and Guy were circumventing the laws that they had in place in Malawi, which was like that people had to live there for eighteen months before they adopted a child, I think is a good thing to prevent Tfficking. But obviously, Madonna was not trafficking a child. She was like, I can't stay I can't live in Malawi for eighteen months. and Madonna, I have stuff to do The point is They really dragged her through the mud. There was like an ABC news story called Black Babies. Are they Hollywood's newest accessory because I didn't write down but I'm sure it's around the time, also that maybe Angelina Jolie adopted her first child. It was all kind of in the same time frrame Yes. Madonna said the blowback crushed her. She said, I have to say it was one of life's great disappointments. However the ray of light, if you will, is that because she's Madonna, it raised a shit ton of awareness for a situation that probably people had no idea what was happening or and didn't pay attention to. It was this crisis of orphans in Malawi. Right. P people really didn't know Malawi. I remember being like phase new to me. R. Yeah. As Catelyn Moran put it in the London Times that year In a single act of altruism, she has managed to ignite a debate that encompasses immigration, Africa, working mothers, modern parenting, international adoption law, race, money, and fame. Yep, that's right. It's been not a bib. Also around the same time she met David, she met a little girl named Mercy, who was just a few months Younger than Did she'll ultimately adopt both of them. I'm just not going to get into the whole details of the timeline She also starts to make a film around this time, Not I am because we are Filth and wisdom. Oh I did not see this film because it's pretty much impossible to watch. I don't think I've seen it. Yeah. But when that's done, it's time to make another album because she has one that she's owed to Warnerrothers. two thousand seven February Kimberland. You know him? I do. Yeahah. He announces that he's working with Madonna on her next album which she had already begun with Ferrel Williams but wanted additional songs that had more of a groove. I'm just going to give you guys a quick timimble insidebar for those of my rocker heads slash young people and people who just are not familiar. and Karen's going to help me with this because Karen was a very active music journalist at this time I need you to understand how massive Timberland is in music and culture and the sound of music of this time I'm going to say he was like the Jack Antonoff of ent This is not to shit on Jack Antonop, maybe is. Just in terms of omnipresent omnipresent.ceptes, to me I can't and maybe again, I'm not a music journalist, so don't, you know come for me, but Unless someone tells me Jack Anov produced it You hadard maybe a little bit. There's no way that you can't hear a Timberlan' song and not know it's fucking Timberan. First of all mostly becauseuse he puts himself on a lot of them. And also it's such a specific sound Yeahah yeah. he's one of the producers where there's like a sonic signatureer name.ro probablybably is about Jacksomu I' probably is some artist let him do it more than others. but yeah So Tim Mana had started you know, producing for RMVX, he had done Jodes, Sista. He kind of had his big breakthrough producing the majority of Alah's one in a mion album, which doog ter and Jinny Wne's album We're riding the Pony C close collabor with Missie Elliot. suuper close collaborator with Missy Elliott And then they started doing tons of hip hop, JayZ Nz, The Locks, Eug K, Big Pimpin, ever fucking heard of it He's just done so much, but then by But here he had done justin timimberlakes Scond solo studio album, Future Sex Love sound. Yeah, this was massive. Sexy back Mhm. That song because I checked One point four billion streams on Spotify. I've rarely seen the billion. Yeah Do the Arctic monkeys have like eight billion stream songs Really? fun fact for me. you' check out. It's Fun for. Yeah, that's a massive song. What Goes around Comes aroundround. There's so much. It also, I think kind of importantly, maybe to our purposes Justin T but very important, but also Nelly Fertado's two thousand six album Loose. Fucking bang her after banger Amazing album. love I loveono. A little she Canadian quQeen. She's Canadian right? Yes. She's definitely very Canadian. I also love I'm like a bird W with Coold Play, whatever he is Would you agree that he is like one of the most major architects of the sounds? Oh yeah of this? Absolutely massive. And just in Timperlake, you know, this album comes down in two thousand eight, so they're making in two thousand seven. here's just one year removed from like this massive pivot where everyone's like, Ohh my Godd, he's a genius. He figured out how to go from being kind of like a cheesy boy band gu to like this sort of like futuristic You know, like Sonic engineer, you know, like this clever pop star. He was this this is the highest that Justin Timber like ever rode. Also sorry, not to discount Ferrel. Obviously the Neptunes had had a major moment. Oh yeah all through the early two thousands and they had done some of the greatest songs and were continuing to do. So like I mean yes, I mean, the Neptunes just their popularity seemed to never wane. They kind of like always had their fingers in something. But also I was gonna to say, another of the collaborators with Justin and Timberland was Dananga who goes on to make Britneany Spears as black. actually might have been even simultaneous And he's all over the s. Yeah So apparently, so she started with Frell. She wanted to seek out Timberland, who also at the same time was wanting to work with her, so it kind of worked perfectly. And then apparently Gao Siri was like, you guys should also bring in Justin Timberay This I didn't love So she does an interview with John Norris I think this was in public, right? It was like a Not in public, but it was at an event. L people were there Yeah about why she wanted to work with these big producers and Justin Timberlake. And she was like, because they're good and I like their shit I mean, I don't like to repeat myself and I was sitting around thinking, what music do I love right now? And it was actually your record. and she points to Justin Timberlake And she goes, I was listening to him obsessively. and he Touched his heart I would be touched if Madonna was listening to my album obsessly. I know. I know You're never never not going to beet Mickey Mouse Club. You know what I mean?ow. But this is the part I didn't like, not that part. Okay Justin Timberlake is asked like, oh, well, how did you, you know, F all's already here Timberland, now you're in like what how are you going to do this? And he goes, We decided to co produce together and just throw, you know, Madonna into the mix. Yeah, I don't like that. Nobody throws it on into the mix. That's kind of what they' do on this album. Well, okay, so my analogue for this album from this perspective now is like this is kind of like her Taylor Swift reputation where it was like she's gonna engage with the actual sound and aesthetics of pop music cure. She never really did that. She was always kind of doing her own thing. It was like her version of disco, her version of dance music, her version of like, whatever, know ic That's true. All those things. So I felt like this was the first time where she was like, you know what? I am listening to the radio. This is what's happening I'm going to see how I insert myself into this. But she was certainly not their play thing. although I feel like you're a hard candy truther. I am because I reviewed this album. This is my first lead review for Rolling Stone. I took this so seriously. L you know, you get Stockholm syndrome sometimes when you listen to obviously. I sure. Yes. this album I was completely indoctrinated. C. So right before this album comes out, Madonna is inducted into the rock and' roll Hall of Fame right alongside Leonard Cohen, John Mellancaap, the Dave Clark five and The Vventures. and because she's the coolest ver she chooses Iggy Pop and then suges to perform her songs Burning Up and Ray of Light. It's amazing. I couldn't find the Burning Up, but you couldn't watch the Ray of Light performance on YouTube he's justparing lastassle. To introduce her, she chose Justin Timberlake She was doing a album promo, That's right Gyaie does not attend. this further cracks in the foundation And then hard candy comes out April eighteenth, two thousand eight I've come around to some of this album This is a total me thing and not a Madonna and this album quality thing. I just have aversion to this time period and things that sound like this time period And it's because I was a miserable person in two thousand eight. There I am in my Gucci bucket hat, you know justust trying to live. It's just Aelic She swung so far from like, I feel like the last few albums were like very European sensibility with the producers, you know, you have Mirway, you have Ste Price. And then she goes so American. Yeah, which is great. which is Americ She was shaking the accent at that point, but yes, yeah. No, you're one hundred percent right And it was it was like I think I even said in my review that it was like unusual for her to make herself so available to these American hit makers. Yeah. I mean, this this was a swerve, but like, you know, you want Madonna to swerve. Sure, of course. I guess like, okay, we'll get into it. Okay I love four minutes. I surprised myself by how much I love four minutes. This is my favorite of the Timberlland Timberlake ones. Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's the best one. Yeah. I do, okay, it's awesome. Yeah. Stanger also a writer on the song Aarely this is the first Madonna single to ever have a feature on it. I believe that Which that opened a real Pandora's platform. Yes. Yeah I love this song. I think it's a banger. The bridge is a little corny I wish they had brass was real and live. Yeah. becausecause once you hear an These words will never again come out of my mouth. But once you hear the GLe version where they did use a marching band, like it sounds so fucking good. And I just kind of wish it had been on here. even without it, this is a great song. I love a marching band song. I actually I did a story of spin on unhinged experimental marching bands. Yeah. And one of the examples was Farrell It's just ironic since he's the half of the s. his bananas.. And he was like, we made Holiback girl specifically for the marching bands my favorite story I mean is that's about cornola. Interesting. Courty love, you're all over this ep. She's all over my heart and mind and culture. And also literally pop culture because she did inspire that s. m I look Four Minutes is apparently it was the first single. She said it was about having a sense of urgency and living on borrowed time, especially regarding the environment. This is where I'm going to go into like my thing where I'm like, I don't know what this album is about Can I quote my review? Yes, please. please. To remind myself, I called it her midlife meditation on her own relevance. I think that's probably like an overarching theme, but it's like, I don't, you know There's stuff about Oh God. I mean, there's okay, there's that environmental song. There's stuff about her being sort of relentless. There's stuff about her escaping on the dance floor stuff about people loving her when they're far away being jealous of others biting her or perhaps taking her place in her relationship, then there's a song that's literally pure chaos willll get there. She's back in the disco You know, okay, it's not coherent I think it's not explicitly autobiographical Yeah It's like unconsciously autobiographical, which is totally fine It just makes it a little harder for me to like ch in But there's high moments on here for me I think that the songs with Ferrell are just like sizzling just like they have some sort of wild creative tension and that they're really, really good. And the other songs are like, okay Some of them are okay, someome of them are not so great. It feels like a little retriting the themes that you just mentioned though. 've we've kind of like that's okay. Yeah She was experimenting because she was working with these paw producers. and she was like, you know, I think it's interesting to like Try something different. in the way she's just making an album, you know She's too this point kind of mostly worked with producers who The power imbalance is quite strong, you know, Whas than not to say that these people are more powerful than Madonics, they're obviously not, but it's a little different of attention, you know. And she was saying when she was making it that they were so busy working with so many people that she was kind of ping ponging back and forth trying to get into their schedules. It's like which happens a lot more when we get to the next couple of albums as well, But yeah the visual theme Sing Championship Candy All of those A little incoherent. Yes. I think. I think from what I understand, listen, I love this cover image. I think my go.'s over fking cool From what I understand, it was actually meant to be completely this boxing ch I'm the champion thing and then the candy was a late I don't say afterthought, but a later thought, which is why it's sort of just like photoshopped into the background of this they didn't redo the imagery, you know I kind of would have preferred It's not up to me but just the boxing. It's such a cool imam. like it's she loves putting boxing in her live shows. it's a total ad. She looks really cool. She does But yeah, but then a lot of the songs reference Candy, so it kind of makes sense. Also, did you know that she wanted to call this album the Black Madonna So I learned this from your Google Dg right And I was like, thank God, she didn't because there was a bllack Madonna, the artist. And she ended up changing her name to the blessed Madonna in twenty twenty when it was like, that's not so cool You know I don't want tona now I'll get canceled, but It's a real thing. The black. it's a reference, you know, it's not But people don't not now. Yeah. It might have it might have went okay then But by now would not have No And she said it, she was like I thought twenty five percent of the world might get this, probably less, it's not worth it And That's a wise calculation, Madonna Lizz Rosenberg said for Entertmentekly, she loves Candy. The title is about the juxtaposition of tough and sweetness, or as Madonna so eloquently expressed, I'm gonna kick your ass But it's going to make you feel good. I have to tell you how I heard this album, please in Liz Rosenberg's office. Okay at Warner Brothers Record. Warner Brothers Records sitting on a piece of I think it's the Girlly show set with the hairdryers. Oh yeah. She had them in her office and I was sitting at a hairdryer listening to this album in her office and I was like, I think'm this is my pee. Yeah, I think That might have been it actually. Did it hit you right away I liked it, but I was like a little like, hmm And I might just so it's such a different sound for me. Yeah, it was hard to get my head around all of it I've come around a lot of it. I guess my thing is like I don't want I don't want to go to a Madonna album and hear someone else so strongly. And I hear Tim Millan so strongly on Yeah. Yeah ye. And I love Timberlland. It's just, you know Well let's go through the actual track. Let's do it I didn't mention the cover image, by the way, shot by the fabulous Stephen Klein, obviously, because he's been doing most of her imjery at around this time. Candy shop is the first song The lyrics are not amazing. It's a it's a tried and true u seex as candy metaphor. This one was produced by Frel or sorry, written by Ferrel and Madonna and produced by the Neptunes. I like the sticky and sweet. Rer sugar is raw again, sweet, my sugar is rpe. I like it. That That that part I like Stick stickick sw isong Sticky and swet We already kind of discussed four minutes U fucking banger. Again, the j the junkie xeler remix is my fucking I will it. I'll spend time with that. I love it. There's also someone put me onto like a house rememake that's on YouTube and that's fucking' amazing too. It just shows how good the song is, you know arry against, take away a second single. This is your j.. Give it to me to me. all time. banger. I was listening to this on the way overver. It's another one of these just like relentless. It's like jump It's like, I'm going to take what I want Life is for the taking. I amm like, you know, I'm powerful I love this song so much and I have I have two Ferrel points on this. So one was I went to Southwest to do. this year. So that year, that year year of this album. And I had just heard like five songs at that point. Yeah. And one of them was given to me and I was like, oh my god. I remember I think I still have the notebook where I just like wrote the name of the song. I was like o Oh my God. I immedily grabed you. Imediate. So I go to interview Ferrel. I cannot remember the circumstance like why what he was promoting And he's in a hotel room with a bunch of men I walk in and they were telling some sort of crude sex story. And I walked in and everybody was like,. And I was like, oh no, woman in the room. This is terrible. And I sat down across from him and I was like, this man is not taking me seriously. And I was like, you know, I just heard some of the abdomal music that you work on He was like, no you didn't And was like, I did. You' like I'm Karing Mother fuck. Well, but he was like, how would you have heard it? And I was like, I work for Rolling Stone and they played for me. He's What do you like? And I was like, give it to me. And he was like. And he knew that I had actually heard it. And he was like, okay. And then we had like a real interview and he took me seriously. He could have afforded you the respect of being a human. I know. att that moment, he was not. Anway, oh my God, I love this song. It's just I love the synth stuttering Wh els a fucking go. will say this is a song that I didn't fully appreciate til I saw the tour footage. Yes Bro. But That the energy that she brings to that song because it's the closer. it is Yeah. Yeah. It's astonishing. She's been dancing for two and a half hours. That's been on her peak athlete again I mean, I think this is the year she turns fifty. Yeahn I don't need to hold my breath. I can go on and on. However, one drawback, tell me, explain to me how Ferrel convinced her to say, get stupid Get stupid, get stupid I overlook it because I like the song that much bothersome You know, she talked about being stupid on American life. I mean she talks with likes It feels like a different gets stupid. But then he does the panning with it to the left to the right, to the left to the right. I'm sorry. D't forget this is also the era where we're involving LMFAO. It was just two thousand eight it was a terrible time. It was. It was an era of foolishness, let's. There were a lot of things that maybe felt I felt good in the moment that we all deeply regret. I won't even show anyone photos of what I look like during that time. I was accidentally using a digital camera had two pixels. so you know, God knows what I look like. I was wearing all over print hoodies and like it was just a bad time But the next song also, which I do love, heartbeat, he somehow also gets her to say, seeee my bota get down And then she goes, get down It know with the music. Oh God. I mean, but American pop music at this time. We're seeing booties get down But I do love that song. It's another D you know, Can't you see when I dance, I feel free dollar. These are that's a good song. I do like heartbeats It kind of encapsulates just like the vibe of confessions. It just like ports it over to this record. Yeah, with a totally different like sensibility. Miles away is my favoriteong on here, but of course, I mean, that's my second favorite little guitar and you have me like catn it. I loveve miles away to my g. From a fuzzy dream. That is a reference to I'm so stupid. I'm so stupid. I used to live in a fuzzy dream. Oh that makes sense. Yeah, from American life. w S dream It's a wonderful song. Yeah.'s not me, it's the high of this song besides four minutes Th are my twoes. This is It's my second favorite. Also, not a great sign for her marriage If somebody who is only loving her when she's a six thousand miles apart is that the distance? There is three thousand There is A couple parts and I'm gonna tell you a secret when I'm like O it's like she does the London show and he didn't come because he was at the pub and I was like That's not good sign Sir The song is just so melodic It's got that little shuffling beat. It's just like, u. is it's not a valid It It's like a mid tempo. It's a mid tempo, but it's like it's the most emotionallyes explicit or like evocative song on here. This is Mot on Timberland and Timberlake and Danger wrote the song all togetherether loveove it She's not me written by Madonna andfrel So things start to get a little weird at this point. You know, it's got that little funky chic bassline. where this album, all these sort of like two toot beep beep disco references are on this record It's chaotic And it leads it to something that's even infinitely more chaotic. I guess it's like in the vein of Thief of Hearts Which is also sort of a jarring moment on Eerotica. Yeah She said that they were listening to a lot of Dbbie Harry records and Gloria Gayainor I will survive. I mean, I can I guess I can kind of hear that. It's more about the subject matter. L at the time, I remember trying to parse like, is this about like another woman in her husband's life? or is this about another pop star I know. was like, is it Britanyy? Is it Gaga? Like I remember like going through I was trying although I don't think Gaga exist yet It must been Brit. They just put out the fan in two thousand eight also so I don't know if she had I referenced Brittney in my reiew I mean, but then she was she spent her whole confessions press tour keeping for Brittany, like she had the shs and so I don't know. I mean Maybe mayaybe that part of the song that's cool is that it could be read both ways. The less said about this, the better' let' just go to that cas. Yeah. Beat goes on featuring your close personal friend. you ask Why't Why don't want everyone to know that you guys are best friends? We did meet at Rolling Stone. ' we tweeted him and we got him to come to the office. Th were really There were wild days back then. I met him. a thousand years ago. How was he? You know what? it was twenty Is it twenty twelve or twenty thirteen? whatever the first year was that he was showing his collection at Paris Fashion Week and I had like, This was like peak party Aussie, and I had somehow like talked my way to Karne Rutfeld's black tie Paris fashion week ball.mazing. I'mered. I'm wearing like a leather jacket and a football jersey, a black tyball. so everyone thought I was like a rock star. and they kept taking photos of me because they didn't know who I was. And then I just kind of sidled up to him. He was the only person in there with a bodyguard, even though it was all only like amazable And I was like, Hey, what's up, Kanye I don't know. I just started chatting to him and I was like, how are you feeling about showing a collection? he was like, It's like trying to ollie in front of the whole world forgetot o, man, that's weak We came to Rolling Stone, he did like a Q and A session and he talked about loving Billy Joel and stuff. We It was actually really interesting. Listen Problematic. Yes. many bad things I don't hate him on this song actually to be honest with you. In fact, I think It's just like what he's saying is silly I have beef. I'm gonna to tell you I have beef. I know you do o Okay. You tell me. I like the vibe I like the vibe of his flow. I'm like a vampire under a full moon now I mean, it's technically a vampire could be under a full moon just like any of us could be under a full moon, but that's a werewolf He's conflating. Okay Get your occult right, You know what I mean? That's all He think he's going to do something new now. See what it do now. see what it do now. This song is fine. He's going from E to F now. Yeah. don I mean this this is deeply embedded. this is dangerous hard candy. I do. I really I went I went very in. I don't hate it. I don't hate it. We're back in the disco And then we're staying the disco for dance tonight. It's just harmless These are harmless songs. Y'all mind if a white girl speaks S Spaniel, part four hundred and eighty seven.. I do not like this song. You like this one I just welcome Madonna speaking Espaniola on one of her albums as she is wont to do. U No, I don't like this song now. I don't o Ever think about this song, I don't put it on I think live it was okay. If you remembering like, I didn't hate it live. I mean, again, I really hate any of these things live, but it's just like it's kind of like an unnecessary song. Yota Kiro means I love you. Mucho Gusto means I'm welcome to you. Um The next song is Devil Wn't recognize you literally what goes around comes around. I find it's a bit crimeer river we have it at home We have Crimea River at home. Okay. Yeah, it's maybe either one of them The rain sounds, I think is what kind of Yeah. I believe they were asked about that and Justin Timberlake was like, no, just because they're both b tempo. Ls like no they sound like that song. This illustrates My kind of ongoing thing is sound like there's it sounds too much like other people No I agree. I'm glad we have it, and I love four minutes. This deevil one recognize you, by the way, was again a song that was written for Hello Suckers The musical about I wouldn't have guessed that that's interesting. with Joe Henry, because Joe Henry' is a co writer on the song. And then was reworked by Timberin, Justin Timber like in Danger It's not a bad song. It' not this is not thisong I like it.'s just it's a little. we have Justin Hiberlt at home And then the last song is voices, I don't need it This is also a song that was written for Hello suckers orr the other Lupasound, I actually don't know. It was definitely written from one or the other I made like the theme of my review of this album to be about like, Madonna is like a dominant. She's a dom. She likes to be in charge, totally. And the interesting thing to me about this record was this sort of like the tension between her allowing herself to be a little bit played with She is both the master and the slave. I mean, it's not like she's not fully either of them. The criticism that I saw lobbying against this album was that it sounds like she is doing a feature on the album that should be her album which I think is unfair But I get the kernel of that. Yeah It has less of her signatures and more of theirs. I agree with everything you were saying about that. But its still yielded some great songs. great, amazing imagery, some good videos. We should talk about the reviews. They were not. That good I think I was the most positive one. Well, no it's across the gamut. I think it's kind of polarizing because like For example, Blender whichich had good writers. R IP love Blender. Yeah. So Blender gave it four stars, Entertainment Weekly gave it a B plus The Guardian gave it four stars, and Amee gave it a five out of ten Pop Matterers give it a five out of ten I always forget about Paul Matters respectully. Rolling Stone was like That was me four stars. Good job. I gave it four stars it says Slant magazine, three and a half, The Times London three. So it's like Menacritic is sixty five Okay so it's like math Yeah, that's like a D plus But I like it better than But that doesn't tell the whole story because it's polarizing. It's like a lot of people were like four stars and a lot of people were like, no, thank you. That alone for me, makes this album so worth it because like I'm glad Madonna was still doing something that was unexpected and pushed buttons and made people feel comfortable exactly. because And then that's fucking cool. one hundred percent. And then she takes down the road and she reinvents it and you're like, oh, and it just starts clicking again. I watching that sticky and sweet Tora was like, okay, you know what? Let's fucking go to the candy shop. Even some of these songs, I was just like, whatever.ike they were really they do pop live. figures it out So she emerges for the first song as Candy shop, and she's on a throne with a cane. She loves a throne I use this as What chain about, do you think I it's just a prop o. She likesolding something. She likes twirling it. Yeah., Madonna with object. You know, she could poke you with it. It's powerful This was inspiration from my fortieth birthday party where I had a throne in a cane. FI. I also had a step and repeat with a cardboard cutout of Madonna that people posed with really true inspiration for my life. Thank you, Madonna. Human Nature with the electric guitar, and then later Bord on line Okay again, is this is the first Border Is this the first borderline appearance? It's the first time I've seen So this is a contemporary era. Yeah. she hadn't done it in ages. And then she also did guitar Ray of Light and also hung up. And then I was like, okay, you know what that That was actually a little too much guitar I don't like ray of Light with guitar as prev previously mentioned and hung up No, that that's a hard no should try something different. I mean, you can do it. That just proves, you know, again, the strength of the songwriting and everything. but it's like, I don't want that. And then she did miles away on acoustic guitar And I cried I recall crying, It's so lowly I did, okay, but then we gota talk about her jumping rope, which I wrote in all caps withith Keith hairrying figures on the screens behind her. cool. Then she gets on a poll And she does into the groove, then she gets back down and she jumps double dutge I mean, my knees. But just like the degree of difficulty. if you fuck up on double dutch, like you're ropes and the whole thing is over. Well, famously, Madonna rehearses things to an inch of their life, so it was not gonna happen. But you're talking about a woman How old a sh? fifty. But she's't I know. incredible shpe. She is, but I make I'm not jumping double detch. That's all I'll say.. She does music. you need music in the set. and she does own the sort of like subway car set. Yeah. She does like a prayer That that was the first time I had seen that. And then she ends on give it to me. It's so great. I also like the rain. Here comes the rain again introluded with the video. That is nice. I like rain is one of my favorite songs Oh my go My one drawback on Sticky and Sweet Tour, the blonde wig with the bangs. I can't talk about it I can't get into the fucks bangs and the fuck ass wig. That wig I can't get into it. Damaged me. I was upset. It's It's theakest part of that entire life h. Why why is I you know which is okay, it's bad. Okay. It's really bad. especially like at one part, it's like as skew in the in the In the film version. Yes, ye justust after this tour, I think, are during. U Christopher Siconi's book Life withith my sister, Madonna comes out I did read it when I came out. don't to like it Why would she she was quite bad? think I think that effectively ended their friendship But they reconciled before his death, I believe. Yes, I do believe, because I mean, of course, right? It's a fun read I don't know if I'm allowed to say that, but there's a lot of te. You know, look, you have to like triangulate everything knowing that everyone's living their own story. Everyone's the main character living their own story. everyveryone's understanding things through their own prism, and then you kind of just like be like, okay, you know, this is more his story of what she was to him and his life than it is like fact based. Y. But you do get a sense of what a critical role he played a lot of creative creative, whichich I think he deserves a lot of credit for Personally. Yeah, I think he was amazing In the midst of the tour also Madonna announces her divorce from Guy Richie. Not a surprise, not a surprise And also gain, I don't to speculate on people's personal lives, but obviously, I'm just about to do it right now. It seems like perhaps adoption needed to be finalized. of David Banda. And then you know, because yeah, yeah. So according to a statement, this I thought was very interesting. according to a statement from Liz Rosenberg He walked away with ninety two million dollars of her money which was, I guess the most any man had ever received in a divorce settlement from woman Fuck that man. Proud badge of honor for you guysee. mister, mister, I'm the man's man Also, I think he like pretty explicitly said in the beginning of their marriage that he would never take a dollar from her He was like, I won't take a dollar. I will take only ninety two million dollars. Y But this led to one of my favorite Madonna quotes of all time wishes Apparently joking about the settlement, years later, she said, If I think about it for even five seconds, it's more than I can take. Did he deserve a hundred million dollars for putting up with me? Hell, if I thought he was going to get that much, I would have been a much bigger bitch Much bigger That's my queen.'mazing. That's my fucking queen So they share custody of Rocco and David Obviously Lus is Madononnaas U daughter. so And then Unfortunately, their divorce put. the adoption of Mercy, which was still pending a bit in jeopardy, but it ends up getting Mercy, my favorite A children. Interesting, how come Just like a quiet intelligence to her. Okay, okay Um, I love them Mal equly No, I just I don't have a favorite And she played piano on the celebration tour, which now you're going to say you didn't know because I didn't take you I didn't have to say trh you said it for me. She did a twenty seventeen interview with Roxanne Gay. for Bizazaar It was a different time. Yeah. And she said, That is one of the arguments I would get into with my ex husband. He used to say to me, but why do you have to go do this again? Why do you have to make another record? Why do you have to go on tour? Why do you have to make a movie? And I'm like, why do I have to explain myself I feel like that's a very sexist thing to say. Does somebody ask Steven Spielberg why he's still making movies Hasn't he had enough success? Hasn't he made enough money? Hasn't he made a name for himself? Did somebody go to Pablo Picasso and say, okay, you're eighty years old. Haven't you painted enough paintings just making points. Yes. No, and I'm tired of that question. I just don't understand it. I'll stop doing everything I do when I don't want to do it anymore. I'll stop when I run out of ideas. I'll stop when you fucking kill me. How about that? Don't tell her to stop, period Don't tell her stop. Don't tell anyone to stop. N She also told the son in twenty fifteen, I did sometimes find myself in a state of conflict. There were times where I want to express myself as an artist in ways that I don't think my ex husband was comfortable with. There were times I felt incarcerated. I really wasn't allowed to be myself happens to the rest of us? Even Madonna B, E Madonna. Um, all right. In December of two thousand eight, she goes to shoot a two day photo shoot with Stephven Klein in Rio for W Magazine She's fifty. She's radant. She's stunning. She's gorgeous. She's surrounded by gorgeous young men including one Especially a gorgeous twenty two year old named Jesus Lew. forgot about him One of my top mughta boy friendriends Tony Ward and Jill's loser right here for me He was an aspiring DJ who had also studied Kabala for two years prior to their meeting. veryery compatible God is good, you know She said later to a tabloid, once you reach a certain age, you're not allowed to be adventurous, You're not allowed to be sexual. I mean, is there a rule? or youre supposed to die off again, good quotes here We don't put out music for a while. Yeah. two thousand nine and she works on her first I guess her second directorial film because filt and wisdom which no one has seen But the next one is WE. Oh yeah. So that's what she's doing for most of two thousand nine. She also puts out the greatest hits album Its third one, c celebration. Yeah I actually like the song celebration. I don't have any thoughts about celebration That's like, you know B minus holiday. Yeah, so we have holiday at homes. But it's good. It's fine. The video is kind of fun. has it's directed by Jonas Auckerland, and has Madonna dancing and, you know, posing provocatively and Luris is in it says Jesus l so hot Jesus lets us saw like I like Revolver feature L Wne. I had forgotten about it. I like it. I don't know that I like it. I a way and I think it's a fun song I'm glad Cherrish made it on here because I have an ongoing debate with many people about Cherish Terishure is a fucking good song Pro therish. and I recently met someone named Terish named after the song All right, in twenty ten, so you guys remember she's out of her Warner Bothers contract. No She signs with Innercope. This wasn't the live Nation three hundred six Yes, I missed that. It was for the sticky and sweet tour. Okay. So she signs live nation, but not for music. It's a three hundred and sixty deal one hundred twenty million dollars for ten years plus a seventeen point five million dollars signing bonus. And that was making back that guy Richie money. She was like, Oh b, donon'try, I made it in sppades. This is for but this is three hundred and sixty touring merch Right, but not music. Yes Music she signs with Innercope And then she took to her Facebook page. her official artist space was announced It's official. I need to move, I need to sweat. I need to make new music, music I can dance to I'm on the lookout for the maddest, sickest, most badass people to collaborate with You don't find that cringe As a forty four year old woman who absolutely uses slang that is not appropriate to my age because I'm so chronically inter termnally online, I can rel I be book relate, but isn't it a tad c? That's what both of us do It's cringe. as I've said about myself and I will apply to Madonna, we are cringe, but we are free. I don't know why she posted that because obviously she's not going like go on Craigslist and get producers, But it was a fun announcement. Yeah. recconnected with William Orbit, which she had already I think not even related to this album. Guyo Siri had basically been like, okay, I'm glad you're making this movie, but you need to put a song in it. And she like, I don't want to I'm busy. I'm an auteur. And he was like, you need to put a song in it. And he pushed her and pushed her until she teamed up with William Orbit, who brought in some songwriters, and they did masterpiece, which I fucking love. I love that song. And it's in the closing credits of WE, a movie that is uneven But Cool, and I'm glad you did it. and it's visually at moments very captivating She also recruits then so she has William Morbid on deck and has, you know, started working Three Europeans. so we're leaving America Italian DJ Benny Benasi, who had won a Grammy for the best remixed recording of Public Enemies Bring The Noise the Pumpkin remix And he had opened for her on the sticking Seite tour in Rome. And he did a remix of celebration H cousin Alessandra Benasi. and the French producer Martin Zlwig. W preremiered. com When was that twenty eleven? Okay. It the next year didn't get great reviews All right February of twenty twelve You already know we have an album coming because we're doing the Super Bowl Soay we Am in Madonna Do you know the last time a woman had headlined the Super Bowl Prior to this was nineteen ninety six That's absurd So she tasked Be Ackerland, who's Jonas Ackerland's wife. By way, it might be Jonas, and I'm so sorry for my cultural insensivity, but I'm just gonna keep saying Jonas because I've said it for three episodes. and you can't stop now. C't stop now. No.. So she was tasked with the costuming of a hundred drumline performers, one hundred fifty gladiators hundred choir members In addition to Madonna's guest artists, LMFA Nikki Minaj, MIA and Cilo Green It was twenty twelve. Only one of those acts has not been canceled. And it's L MFAO. That is correct. one hundred percent reason. I kind of ride for LMFA. I'm not gonna lie. When I was like kind of revisiting, I was like That That show was fun. I recall it being cringy and then when I rewatched it, the part that was cringey was the guy balancing with a loot on the street. I didn't understand what was happening. I was like, is he? I thought he was LMFAO for a second. And then I saw them over on the side and I was like, Ohh, they're fine. They were just they were party rocking. What were were rocking in the house tonight. Ebody. Yeah. They're rich as hell babe and they mind their own business and keep their noses clean I Nhing more respect for them. I kind of forgot how big those songs were massive. She did not need to do I'm sexy and I know it with them and do the little like shuffle It was a little bit of a bummer to watch her do that. but then, you know, I mean it was For a pop spectacle of that order on the Super Bowl field, like she had like a million of those gladiators. It was mega By the way, she arrived on a throne, I just want to point that out. You know, I hope this is what The Odyssey looks like Christopher Nolan's film. I hope it's taking some strong visual inspiration from Madonna's twenty twelve S Wool performance. That would be a film that I would then see. Just before the game, the first single from MDNA had come out Give me all your loving I like it. okay We'll come back to it The Vogue performance in the Super Bowl is Fabulosa. It is gorgeous. I live. I think it's one of the best fogue performances, live ones. It is And it's got like sort of like the magazine font on the o the got the overhead shot and stuff That's really good. And I don't hate the LMFA or Cilo bits Silo does like a prayer makes total sense. Yeah U Yeah, she told Howard Stern that she was so nervous before and during the performance that she collapsed in the bathroom when it was over She said I laid down on the floor and cried because I got through it and I knew everything went off without a hitch. It's hard to imagine her getting nervous for anything. I know. That's kind of crazy One incongruous, but a little bit bizarre thing. Do you remember at the very end she like gets sucked out of the stage And then they they show the overhead from the stadium it just says world peace Well yeah That reminds me when I went and saw YouTube at the Sere to do Octune baby and there was like a whole part where they're just like flashing words on the screen that's like Feminist. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah, Black liivesatter People just they're just saying words. I're just saying words Everything didn't go off without a hitch though. Oh no, it didn't. she didn't know that yet. She didn't know that yet, ye. MIA and Nicki Minanaju were obviously there to perform the song with her head flipped off the audience. J J just MA. Yeah. It was fine. Niicki was minding her own business. She wasn't she she hadn't She actually looks great in that performance. N It's like pee Nicky.. Peak Nicky Honestly, MAA looks amazing too. She does. And they're both in little gladiator outfits with like their first initial on the crotch. It's very cute two hundred and twenty two of the hundred fourteen million people who watched the Huper Wowl called the FCC to complain about A Because she showed her fucking middle finger Yeah And the NFL was like, no problem. we'll find her seventeen million dollars. Except she's MIA and she doesn't have a dime I mean, I would imagine the paper planes. A little money Yeah. Madonna was not happy about this because something had happened that was Unplanned. Yeah, that she doesn't like that. No and like controversial but not in a way that she would want it to be. Yeah. She told Ryan Seress, I was really surprised. I didn't know anything about it. I wasn't happy about it. I understand it's punk rock and everything. But to me, there's such a feeling of love and good energy and positivity and world peace. It seemed negative. It's such a teenager irrelevant thing to do. What was the point? It was just out of place. I mean, yeah, but it was on the lyric I don't give a shit. Yeah. So it wasn't like, you know, it wasn't like a kitty show. but you're right It was censored She's like, I don't give a Yeah, But she flips the verd, come on, MIA. You're right that MA didn't maybe have money and she didn't end up paying this. There was some undisclosed settlement. She had not yet made her money from her tinfoil hat clothing line. Oh God I did point out something, again, a good point that there was a quarterback who flipped the bird on TV And he only got fin twelve thousand dollars. And she was like, that's interesting. It is. And this is this leads us into MDNA march twenty third, twenty twelve. produced by the aforementioned Benossi Bothers, the demolition crew, Michael Moi Party indigo Wanda William Morbett and Martin Solvan Lots of collaborators on this one, not just producers, writers. Someone pointed out that Ray of Light had twenty six people credited on it and this one has ninety two whichich is on What I was gonna say in pop music now. Okay, so this is like her foray and two. Contemporary pop hit making where every song has like eight or nine writers and producers And it does make the music a little more anonymous It is a little bit of a There are some issues with this record, but I actually do like it on balance Evidently, I gave it a seven out of ten. You know who didn't like it that much? Uhh, William Morbet. Well, he said later, if it was up to me to Executive produce an overview the whole process of Madonna's MDNA, I do feel like I could have done an absolutely exceptional job. Something as powerful as ray of lightight, but I guess I don't have the ability to inspire this kind of managerial level of confidence On MDNA, it's important to say that I jumped on the project later, she hadd already started it. She had a lot of stuff going on. I honestly don't know how any human being could cope with making an album, directing and producing a movie, launching products and everything that comes with just being her Anyway, we were just not really able to lock the door and everybody out for MDNA, which as we pointed out is kind of the best way to make music if you're Madonna She was having such a great time at first, but it somehow became very complex for everybody. I would have mixed it myself if I could, or only together with Madonna in front of the mixing deck because she's a great mixer We have spirited debates about things but we always end up in the same direction. I would have dropped three of the six tracks that she had already made with the other guys. they were not good enough, in my opinion, to pure oil I like that he's talking real shit. yeah, he was quite honest about this I thought that was kind of interesting I don't disagree with them on maybe that some of the tracks could be stronger and some could be I crized Also something I just absolutely loved when I learned is that He said he showed Madonna. They said they didn't listen to any contemporary music while making this album except that he showed Madonna the recently released Cyon song Gucci Gucci Because now we're really of a moment. I'm putting you we're putting us. because it had the lyric, Gucci, Guc, Loui Lou, Fendy Fendy Prada. I'm looking like Madonna, but I'm flossing like Ivana MA apparently came up with an album title MDNA meanings Like I'm DMA. Mna. Also like mitochondrial, do you?t thought of that one. It only is transferred from the mother to the child Did you do scientific research for this a little bit? Okay. We do all kinds of research in this house. The artwork Again for me like with hard candy where like I love pect of it and part of it, I'm like, I don't know about this The photo is shot by Mertin Marcus. I like the photo. Photo's great, directed by Giovanni Bianco. and I like the kind of obscuring as if looking through like panels of glass, but it's the typeface that I don't really understand because it's also in that vein. So you kind of gets lost a little bit, you know I love the colors though It's a striking album cover. I like the cover Would you agree that this is a very divorced album? Yes. Exceptionally divorced. Exceptionally divorced album, which is great. I love that. I love that we're like we're really like putting it out on front street, like how we're feeling about. this relationship and divorce. Oh yeah. And like I had forgotten some of this, like what she was going through. So I had not obviously revisited my own review of this album in quite some time Apparently I said she was staring down a unique tryout of crapitude. Oh, wow. L at. Not bad, twenty twelve, me, right? B in. Yates over here. Not. Writing for spin, a little looser. Public divorce? Yeah. There was shit going on with her schools in Africa and poorly reviewed film. and Lady Gaga had arrived and was kind of biting her shit Yeah. And I was like, she was sort of like, where do I fit in And I think this is a this is like a maybe a little panicky of an album. When does Born This wayay come out Later than this. No before. rightight. Okay. twenty eleven. Okay, so yeah And obviously, for my part when I heard Alejandro, Alejandro, Alejandro, I was like, o my God. Alejandro I w to I mean, God tear, one of the best pop songs ever. S, but it's a little we have L Bonicha at home. I know. It's a great song. It's a great song. Yeah And I love Lady Y. I'm not here to it's all. I One of my most wonderful experiences was the mononster Ball Tour with my mother in which I did rarap diet coks in my hair. Oh my go I mean, know, literally, Madonna walked here so she could run. We all know this, but And I think at this point in Madonna's career She didn't have like a The album before was not a hit. Yeah. The tour was huge, obbviously it was record breaking once again. But like, you know, she's kind of like, whereere do I fit into this stuff? And then we end up with MDNA. Yeah I love Girl Gon Wild. I love Girl Gon Wild. I listened to him on the wayay overver. I was like, I forgot how good this is. I they just want to have some fun. This one' written by Madonna Jenson Vaugh and the Benasi brrothers. I think the song the opening, which is like the spoken God. Yes is Oh my God And it's a reference to active contrition, right? Yes love active contrition E loveven Madonna says God, God Honestly, this is my absolute favorite y. It's a good song. It is, it is. It was the second single, which I kind of loow you think it should have been the first single Did you remember the beef she had with fifty cents at this time. I didn't. I was reminded when I was reading madeade me laugh. I guess fififty Scent was mad at Inroscope because of something they had like leaked some album artwork of his. It was like the same name or something But yeah, and then he all he's like these people are gonna make me kill one of them. Now Madonna' single is called Girls Gone Wild. This is some bullshit because I guess his song was called Girls Gone Wild. First of all was called Girl Gone Wild, singular. I also think what's his name The girl's gone wild guy. Yeah ye. I tried to sue her Yeah Joe. It was Joe. he didn't try super, but he did try to block her from performing at a Super Bowl and she didn't perform at the Superowl So I don't know if it was because he said so or probablyably not. I love the video How Youube Directed by Martin Marcus. It features this Ukrainian Snth pop band called Kazaki who actually, if you can go watch, I can't remember the name of the song, I'm sorry I didn't write but they made a video just like this And that's why they're in the video. Yeah YouTube thought this video was really provocative. Did they censor her? Apparently, they made it available only to people over eighteen It's not that crazy What it feels like for a girl was not crazy either. when MTV banned. I mean it made absolutely no sense Gang bang I don't mind that either. I don't either actually. It's written by Madonna and William Orbit with Mika Pisilla Hamilton, Keith Harris, John Paptiste Don Jan, Demo, Casanoa. I'm sorry, I might have got some of these namesong. There was just so many and I was like copying and pasting. There were a lot of names on this one The song also has Just so you're one hundred percent certain it's twenty twelve It has a dub step Wobble drop and it. yeah, she was like, I likex fs too. But you know what it doesn't it does no harm. It does no harm. I like that she said She cited that Quentin Tarantino was an inspiration for this song, which is a very full circle moment because if you guys remember from episode one, the opening of the first film of Quent Tarantino Reservoir doogs starts with the words, let me tell you what Lecoversgin's about I didn't remember that. Oh,'s so it' Quin Tarantino at the table, telling them what like a burden's about. She had actually wanted him to direct the video, but I guess when he was asked about he said, I don't know I've beened to direct commercials and music videos, Madonna and JayZ asked me, but I refuse, I'm not interested. I'm just not as interested. I was like, well, I could see them. Clashing. Yeah, yeah, totally My thought on this and just stay with me stick with me. How we dropped a little of the dub step Yeah prodroduced maybe like a little differently. It's giving to me like murder ballad in the PJ Harvey style, which I love. one hundred percent. Right? Yes, I'm with you. That's what I like about it. It's like Nick Kavey, PJ Harvey murder ballad. Super dark. Yeah, grindy Narrative I'm addicted is the next song. I like the texture of that synth kind of arpeggiating all over the place I don't know I'm into it. I find it engrossing. The bridge that gets like super dort of like lush Somet happens to me when I hear your voice, something happens to me, I have no choice And I' like d It's like a club moment. Yeah, okay. I actually really like this one. Okay. I feel like this is like the really the only kind of deep club moment on this record. I'm like I could have I could have done like five more of these Turn up the radio. I like this too. And I was not Stockholm syndrome by this record. I just like I always like her a little like, it's a beautiful stranger kind of throwback to me. I love beautiful stranger. That is I mean, one of the best songs in her catalogue. This has like an element to that. It's kind of like a sixties thing little bit. know it's kind of harmless. you know, I would love to turn up the radio. Yeah. I don't know why there's just something about this song that doesn't resonate with me, but I can see why people like it Okay. It's not like special, but I don't know. I have a soft spot for it. Okay, I'll give it to you You Let's I love I'm opening the. I give me all your love in featuring MmI and Nici Minaage. I mean there's parts of it it sounds like a novelty song. It has that kind of like, oh Mickey You know, hey Mickey, Oh Mickey. Heyy or so. Yeah, he has that kind of a vibe to it. I don't know, I kind of like the cheerleader revibe of it Those are aspects in general that I like, but I just don't know why this song It's an n for me. It didn't offend me. and will start I will introduce an idea here that will carry on through further songs I like her songs with Nii Minaj. I really do. I like everyvery single one of them. Okay Obviously, I have complicated feelings about Niciminaj now But some unique proresscess. Yeah. But she was when she was good, she was good. And I feel like she and Madonna were bizarrely compatible I remember I'meting a couple of quotes from M Don's just like, I love I get this st with Nickki, she wants to hear the song. She she wants know what's about. She she wants to really dig into it. It makes sense, I feel like in some ways there's similar types of artists where like they're very disciplined and very like controlling and thoughtful and like really want to do like an excellent and perfect job, you know? Yeah I mean, just when Nikki was good You know, like she's articulate. You know, she's like literate. There's just interesting word choices and stuff like that. She, you know, more than one flow I like her. I like Ramadonna song. this was the first and I was like, I dig it. I'm glad that you like it You're like, I'm glad that's good for you. I just feel. Listen. I know everyone's afraid to criticize Madonna, but I don't think me and Madonna are ever going to be friends. so I just don't like this song. I amm not doing this to be friendly with m. No. I know you're not. I dont I know you're not. You are a pure of part. I just I just w to be honest to my experience, which is, you know, music is subjective and I just don't like this one I like some girls too Karen loves M. I can't help it. You know who worked on this song was Robin's seecret weapon, class Laos Aland Klaus Oand. alsoso the original demo was saying mayabberexa. know I didn't know that You can still hear it somewhere out there I the song? I like it. It's harmless. It's sing songy. It has that kind of Swedish poppy quality to. It wasn't in my head. I forgot that clloud had done it and I looked it was like, oh yeah. I really wantna like superstar I want to And I don't understand why it's not happening for me. It's generic. There's really not much going on there. Yeah I like, you know, I like her songs, where she talks about old Hollywood stars that happens a lot U So you love I donon't giveive up featuring Nicki Minaj. I do Now I've introduced the idea and I'm going to carry it through to the end of the episode but it's hundred percent true. This is a very explicit divorce song Wake up, ex wife, this is your life. I'm going be be okay. ye. I don't care what the people say. Yeah She didn't have a pre up ninety two million dollars. Yeah. But but she's gonna to be okay. She already made it back. She made that deal. Yeah. You know, we like the production on that song it's kind of clitchy I don't mind it. Okay time I'm a sinner I kind of like this one too. I'm sorry. This is gonna to be us when we get to Madam X where I dont know the tables are turned. Oh yeah yeah because I I quite like MadamX. Oh my God, I really. We'll get there. This isn't the same campus to me as turn up the radio and give me all your love. It's kind of like one of those sixties Yeah ong. Okay, well, that's an interesting thing. I kind of feel one of my like little secret theories Is that Maybe she wanted to make a lot of songs like that on this album and was kind of pulled in a different direction. Not that she could be pulled or whatever. like I pulled between two different directions 'a then you get to like masterpiece and falling free and I don't want to I don't want to skip love spend. We we could skip it. Okay. There's an illusion hung up there The only reason to talk about lovevepent for me is that randomly one of the writers is Alan White, who is Morrisy's main songwriting partner and guitarist and has been since nineteen ninety one How did they meet? I don't know. Okay. I can't figure it out. I'm dying to know. That's weird And what maybe, you know, it's possible that Again, it's hard to find this information, but it's possible that they sampled one of his guitars. I was wondering That's why he's a accredited writer. So that makes a little more sense than like he got in the stew with William Morbit and Madonna. but I think it's worth pointing out that he's a accredited writer on here. The problem with that with Lovepent is that it's trying to like make six songs and seven genres and it doesn't work. But then I do agree with you. Masterpiece is great Masterpiece is Wonderful written by Madonna, Julie Frost and Jimmy Harry, which were the two people that William Orbit introduced her to Gao Siri was like you need to make a song for this thing. It oneon best original song of the Golden Globes. I love this song. It's one of the only Madonna songs in which she spans two octaves like hitting that upper register, like she does in Ray of lightight. And it's thought that William Orbit is really likes that. So he's the one that always kind of pushes her to do that. And it's really cool I wish she had written a whole album of songs like Masterpiece and Falling Free I really like falling free. I like falling free, too It's kind of like dreamy. It has synth, but it's like piano and violin Its just I like I'm only speculating, but I'm like it almost feels like she wanted to make these kinds of songs or maybe like Maybe not wanted to, but was more attuned to making these kinds of songs because to me these are the highlights of the album. They are. And I'm like, Wh why are you sticking them all at the end? Because they don't fit in with the like you know MDMA Cub Mickey Minaj MI theme of the album. Tue I think falling free is just like it's really a really vulnerable moment that you're not finding anywhere else on this record I mean, it's most sorrowful songs on this record. It's like mask off in. Yeah exactly It's yeah, it's really beautiful our hearts are intertoined Then there are some songs on the Deluxe in which you say you don't fuck with Delluxe. Not really. I love birthday song. I know this is a bizarre take. birthday song. It's kind of like what you were saying about one of the other songs. I can't remember which one. To me, this is the haym. This is like a new WV That was my chunky, the headcoatsy kind of like M Cute. song and it's just catchy and I love it with MIA. I think it's nice I fucked up a lot. I think it could have been produced a little differently.. but it's also like Really also vulnerable and honest and I love the lyrics And I don't know, to me, these two songs are better than some of other songs No, I agree. And I'll bring up a beautiful killer just to mention that they They named check Alan Delan on this because her and Martin Solbig were like really into French films and L Samurai and stuff. Best friendriend also again, not my favorite song, but I think the lyrics are incredible I don't remember. She's like, I miss your brain, the way you think, but I don't miss the way you used to drink. I miss our talk. She's really, really honest here, you know, about her marriage and about You know, there's a part where she says, mayaybe I challenge you a little too much. We couldn't have two drivers on the clutch. Or as Patrick would say, you can't have two miss piggies in a relationship That'll be karate U that's that's my thoughts on those bonus tracks Yeah, M DNA. Listen has some high points. I love how vulnerable she is in some of it She's dealing with a lot. She's dealing with. She's all over the place. She's spread thin, as William Orbittt said. Yeah. It's interesting. After going through and talking about all the songs, I think what he said is true Like he could have brought a coherence to it if he had just rearranged him. And in fairness, he disses himself so I left that part off the That quote where he says I would have also wanted to go back and like strengthen my songs Okay. Charted at number one Remember bundling Yes, yeah. So this sold It's most in the first week three hundred fifty thousand, which is actually more than she had the last several albs because it was like with tickets because it was bundled. Yeahah By the end of the year, only sold million copies Again no one's really buying CDs at this time, so it's kind of a hard metric, but It was not a commercial success. No Highest grosscing tour of the year again, three hundred million dollars this time Arianne Phillips, the Queen during the costumes, more Gautier more Costumes just by Arianne Phillips, plus some from Jeremy Scott Alexander Wang. Doli Gabana created the suits for the band, proded the high heeled boots for the male dancers to wear during vogue. A lot of good fashion. All her children are at work. Laura just is working in the costume department. Rocco is dancing on stage. David and Merci are with her, but with Nannies O notable thing about this and then I want to hear the full Caringans's breakdown is that there's a few dates in Russia anotherother thing to put us in a place in time. They were just after the pussy riot Oh, yeah. protest and arrests And she spoke up for them at the Moscow showhow. And then during her St. Petersburg show, the city had passed a law that banned the promotion of nontraditional sexual relations. She had received death threats, but she spoke out against that legislation from stage. She passed out pink armbands and rainbow flags for the crowd to Really like support and Reay of solidarity and actually eighty seven people were arrested. Wha I didn't know that. We showing support of gay rights And also three Russian groups sued her for ten million dollars for damaging morals So Madonna's still doing her Madonna thing? Yep ye. Okay, tell me about Karen Gamz's experience I have less to say about this tour. I don't know why Are you gonna talk about the exppress yourself? I am. Let's go This is literally the only moment that I noted. So We did not Moments ago that Lady Gaga I was born this way had come out and there was a bit of a controversy about whether it sounded too much like expxress yourself So Madonna does so. It does. And it was also like, why did nobody notice this before? Like how could you get through the entire process? Nobbody must have noticed Yeah I would like to think that somebody noticed, but like, did you think it wasn't going to be a thing? They wanted to be a. I don't know what the thinking was, but Madonna Bless her mashes them up. and even adds a dash of she's not me. It's so shady and it was so fun live. I remember being like, I can't believe this is happening. this is so shady. I love her. And it sounded great. And you can sing it directly right over it. It works perfectly. Wonderful. Yeah. And she was like she was like interesting how it works perfectly. Yeah. this is like a boss bitch move. I loved it. Like I'm gonna take you out on stage in front of millions of people Liz Rosenberg God bless. I came out to you know, she was asked about it and she was like, whether it's an homage or a smack in the face or just being funny. I don't know. People can decide what it means. Madonna isn't one to explain herself Really Liz Rosenberg one of one Yeah It a job. It does not get better than that. Yeah. That was really fucking cool. Yeah. The thing and we've kind of talked about it throughout, but I think it's worth mentioning and if you haven't watched all of these tours, you need to watch them They are Incredible. What? Madonna and her team do with these tours, how thought out they are, how incredibly E piece goes together, how it's one It's one work of art even though it's containing all songs from different eras. she makes it into the most cohesive experience. Yeah. And I think that's so cool. And the video segments are like so high end and so well produced. And you know, fans weret always bitching like, I want I came here to hear into the groove. It's like she's not going to do that She is touring the album. She's still making new music. She will give you versions of old songs in ways that you might not like I' never been to one of these ms without hearing like a middle aged person, I am now nextxt to me being like, Oh there's all this new, whatever It's like she's not the eag. You do not. You've come to see entire point. But yeah, just again, you were saying before about her being an athlete, just the level of athleticism that is involved with just all the singing and dancing, the costume changes The acrobatics, the stage design, all of it, you know, her little fingerprints aren't. She pretty it. I know That's incredible. Still really at her peak. this and the next tour. Yeah. She looks fab Amazing. In twenty thirteen, Forbes ranks Madonna the highest paid musician in the world And number five in their list of most powerful celebrities Did you watch Secret Project Revolution, The Steven Klein film? No, it's kind of cool. It's cool. I should go back to Yeahah, it's cool At the Newor preremiere of Secret Project Eolion. This is really important to me and for the fanspling audience, Madonna saying The Elliott Smith song betweenween the bar. Ohs very important to me as well. whileile a dancer in a bala Cava spun behind her, was he you right Were you there It's really don't worry. there's a YouTube video. This is the one thing I missed. I was like the biggest Elliot Smith fan. I still am, obviously. A interesting. I found out he died when I was at Roseand seeing Interpol It really puts her finger on a Maria. ye. I loved that she did that. I thought that was yeah never you know, youve just proves her taste. Exactly. All right, twenty fourteen, in February, she's joined on stage by the two newly freed members of Pussy Riot, Maria Aloina and Nadia F Konikoa. on stage at an ammnesty international sponsored event called Bringing Human Rights Home on the Eve of the Social Olympics She's still supporting. Yeah. She's still supporting human rights. Rights to protest, pussy riot. You guys don't remember how big pussy riot was for a second there. Oh, The ball Cavas were everywhere. Even I believe I put on a pussy riot benefit at the smell And if I'm correct, wow, and you guys need to I'm almost positive high I'm performed They were it's believable. It's twenty twelve. so they hadn't, you know, they weren't put out their first album yet Okay, so now it's time to start thinking about her new album because she has a three album deal with Innerscope and they're like TikTok So gu here he's like, well, what if you work with Timberling twenty four years old also known as Avii who had risen to prominence in twenty eleven with his single levels. One of the best songs ever ced. I' sorry I'll say it. That song is fucking go tear. He's great. And you know what? whenever Wake me up when it's all over comes on. I will be slapping my fucking knee and living my life. And I don't care what anyone says. I told my roommate who's like ten years younger me, she was like horrified and I was like It was a moment, though. You're wrong, honey. We all did it. It's a good song. It holds up the test of time. It's like Mumford hop And I love famously, I love the Lomveniirers and Mumford and so it really brought together some Anyways, hes he's fucking killing it. Yeah Madonna had worked with him actually prior to this in Miami at the Ultra Music Festival. He had remixed Girl Gone Wild, and then he had opened the LA shows on the MDNA tour This is really when we get into like songwriting camp Witing of an There's's there are a lot of names A Vicci would work with of songwriters and I guess you can correct me if I' wrong but I think it's like The idea was like some introspective songs Some bops We were going for Rebel and heart. Yes And Madonna was like going between these two songwriting groups to like put in her ideas However, I don't know if this, okay, I want to ask you because you might know better since you were covering this be at the time In the Mary Gabriel book, she says the reason that the E Vicci of it all was toned down or pulled back was because he got very sick I don't know if that's the reason, but you know, he av Vici, you know, he really struggled. and this was the era of like the superstar DJ Globe trotting playing everyhere Vegas residencies and it was like, all the drugs and alcohol the documentary, it's really good and really sad. I mean, they basically From what I understand, it's like the management was like, I'm sorry, you have to be on tour three hundred and sixty days a year. And he was like, well I'm going to die. Yeah.. I mean And he did. and it was really, really tragic. So I think he pulled back because he was not well. Yeah. and yeah, I think he was having some drug problems Anyways, to me, this is the most tragic obviously' myain reciing piece because I love the Avicci parts of this album. This had been a full ass Avicci album But it's not. So what you're saying is you don't like the diplo parts of the album. I think you should go to prison. Okay, let's move on. She does turn to diplo. Yes. Wesley Pence Who is you know of his own at this time He was also too busy becausecause you know, Vegas residency is making money to sit with Madonna in the style that she was accustomed to So she quote, had to catch him on the fly and try and create in the moment. Madonna told Karen Gansz. You know when you meet somebody and you work with them and you recognize that you both look at life the same way. I'm one of those people. I travel the world also and I engage in other cultures and I absorb and see the beauty in other cultures from many different perspectives, through art, through literature, through music, and reference a lot of those things that inspire me through my work. And I think Dipload is the same thing. So we recognize Kin and S spirit pecial cls It's like just explaining. It's like this Spider Man meme with a cultural appropriation. I know. They're not. I't think it is but is it very funny ' they were both kind of like Oh, hold my bear They were curious. They were curious. They were easily inspired. Yeah. But because Diip was so busy, you know, glob trotting,, she got even more collaborators. She told Cosmo Magazine, the whole writing process was like a train that kept running. I kept picking people up. Some stayed on the train longer than others. We're living in an age when these DJs and producers are working with lots of artists. So I was going crazy thinking, canan't I just have you for a whole week? Why do I just get you for two days There was a constant battle and it drove me bonkers. I could see that. C hear it too. I like Rebel Heart. We're gonna get into it. I think there's I'm like I'm just imagining what could have been. I know. In December of twenty fourteen So this is a pivotal time. Yeah. because this is when I first physically cross paths with Midon. Oh Oh yeah because if we just read your interview quote. Was that that was after the leak, obviously. So this is I have Liz Rosenberg emails in my Google Doc. I stopp saved dead. So I was at Rolling Stone then And december tenth, a handful of us went to hear a few of these songs at Jungle Studios, which is Alicia Keys's studio on the Westide. And no one told me anything other than like, you're going to go hear a couple of songs. I'm like, okay, so we sat down. They played us like two or three versions of Livving for love. And they're like, Wh which ones you like? And you know, we're gonna play two or three other songs. I'm taking notes in my little pad. And then somebody, I think it was Liz goes, cool, she'll be here in five So you weren't even prepared? So No no one told me she was coming. It was like a surprise bless my colleagues, knew that was going to lose my mind. So I was just like I don't even know what you're like hyperventally I was like legitimately freaking out. I was like we had never met. I was like, I don't know what I mean there are other people there from other magazines, too. that were like Who was there anyone we know? There was someone from Spin. I cannot remember who it was. I apologize. and like maybe somebody from Billboard. And she just like entered And she like shook everyone's hand and she was like, Which version of Living for love do you like? And I was like, Duh, the house he won? Obviously the right choice. Yeah And she like, she chatted for a few minutes, she left and then like literally November december nineteenth It's a lot of detail, but I'ming you that's worth I was at a J Giles band Bob Seeer show. I just want again, back to my former seatement, Karen Gansz will go and see music. Is it Jay Giles? Yes. Is it whoever is playing, Karen Gansz is gonna slam back a Martini and be in that audience The reason I was at the show was that I had recently returned to Rolling Stone and Jan Winner was walking the aisle looking for somebody to come with him and everyone said, no And he got to my office and I was like to say yes, like I just started working here again. So like you' all come, he apparently had seats at MSG. He's like, just go meet me at my seats. Somebody came and brought me a glass of champagne when I said, okay, I would go that way too. You're right. I take it back. So I'm sitting there at the show. ten thirty one PM. I get an email from Liz Rosenberg And I'm I mean, becauses how that's how entranced you were by Jake Ges Band that you were like. I was looking at my phone con They were opening for Bob SZeeger. I'm not hugean. Hi Karen, sorry to bother you on the weekend. wasas I don't think it was the weekend But due to the leaking of the early demos of Madonna's new album, we're considering releasing some songs via preordder This is tentative and confidential. If it happens, I would like Madonna to speak with you And I was like, I hand picked you. Well, I was just like, this is ridiculous. So I remember I was like Th the next day, december twentieth, Liz Rosenberg email. Would you like to speak to Madonna tomorrow at approximately twelve thirty for fifteen minutes about the new music? I have a feeling I know the answer. She fucking fucked your ass right there. She was like you were like, no, I'm busy, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So this was the first time I ever interviewed Madonna, and it was just about the six songs that were like leaked basically. That's the one that quote I read. Yeah. So I basically milked, I mean, every single thing she said to me went into that interview and it was just like extremely exciting It's so cool. I thought o, so this ties into what happened because it's interesting that you say this This is not a normal behavior, but Madonna was so furious and so upset and so violated.es because the songs at Laks were not finished. Yeah. They were like in various states of, you know, being done. And so which her solution was like, I'm just gonna to release six of them before Christmas. that was like not a common thing to do. No, and they had to get the music to iTunes. It was apparently like the guy was going on vacation It was like a Christmas or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Guy was Sary was like, we had to make I mean, I can imagine Madonna was freaking out. They had to make it happen And it did. And apparently that six song album hit number one in forty one countries. In January, they did arrest that hacker He was in Tel Aviv Ady Lundnderban You had access to Madonna's staff emails for years. That's crazy. Yeah But then they were released the whole thing, which is I guess when we will acknowledge the release of the album This this Ill mean ultately This was a mistake. you know, I I feel to you reallylease. Yeah. I think that like this was not It was not representative of the whole album. It gave people a false idea of what it was all going to sound like. I think that she's been way too reactive to these leaks and stuff. I don't know if you discuss this during American Life, but like file sharing was so big then, so she populated A bunch of like fake songs that said like, justust kind of amazing. What the fuck do you think you're doing? K of amazing. But then that hacker who like that Yeah and her whole website and then put this is what the fuck I think I'm doing I know. I mean also kind of epic. But like I just feel like she's obviously, we know she's into control, she's into dominance. She clearly wants to be in charge of how this music gets out and who gets what and what it sounds like. But I feel like this was just like a snap decision that she probably should have made. Also, don't forget, she described this as artistic rape and terrorism. That did not go over well either. There are a lot of like actual terrible things happening in the world. Obviously having your art stolen is not great choice of words. I do think that people go too hard in the relativism paint. likeike, okay, yes, there's always gonna be a worse thing happening to a worse person. It doesn't mean someone can't feel away I know, but you know, because everything she says is blown out of proportion, Yeah. You know, So of course it was, but yeah, so those those songs arrived. I feel for her because I do again, she spent most of her career with this not being a going concern at all and all of a sudden and it is fucking it's invasive to know that someone's spying on your shit and taking your things that like that you've worked really hard on. Like what if they released spanceplan episodes before they were done Artistic rape U okay, let's get into Rebel hard. Okay in full Just a few cooks in the kitchen, like we mentioned, just a couple just a few rated producers right in here She said, Everyone I worked with is tremendously talented. There's no question Just everybody I worked with also had agreed to work with five thousand other people. I just had to get in where I could fit in And I bit your Madonna Do to paraphrase literally. I was like, this is not Toby Gad is one of The main songwriters are on here and he wrote if I were a boy for Beyonce in twenty thousand eight, I think that's what kind of cap. Yeah, catapulted it She also said, I'd never leave the room. Sometimes I think that makes them mad. Like don't you have to go the bathroom? donon't you somewhere go? Don't you want to make some calls? But Madonna famously is a very hands on. It's another reason which I fell into a full Reddit K hole about your former employers. incendiary list of the top songwriters, which I'm not even going to engage with that, but but these people were like, you left Madonna off I did not work on the list and I I know you did it.. It's really funny, actually, because I' you don't have to go into just knowing the people that did work on the list, it's so easy to go through and be like, that's this person, That's this person, That's this person. If Karen had been on, this person I would have been on. Yes, Madonna has had a writing credit on Mike orore producing credit on every song since like nineteen eighty six. Watch I know all pop singers so is Beyonce. It's aama the Beyonce. Exactly. And like she's it's documented. So there's what righting It's not vibing. It's just that she's never cared to like go on the PR campaign of presenting her samarong I has, and she ended up on the list because been it's very important to me that I'm a writer. they both are. Yeah. just I thought that was interesting She told Karen Gansz This is the best part of the podcast. I've seen in an interview. Karen Ganz said this album focuses on two themes, listening to your heart and being a rebel. When you sat down to write were you guided by these ideas above any musical plans Madonna said, I never sit down and consciously think I want to write a song about a subject Music leads me to ideas and to where I want to go emotional. When I first started I was writing with Avici's team of writers and they were separated into two different groups. One of them had a much more upbreed approach to songwriting, sonically speaking, and the other team chose darker chords. The music leads me, so I get lost in the sound of the music and that creates an emotional b. I'll just say when she started saying these things, I was like, holy shit, she's so smart. I was so blown away. It was soous conversation But she I mean, I always knew she was smart. It She's leveling up, incredibly intellectual. I think that It always I'm always astonished by the blessings that God bestowed up Madonna Everything coincided to make the world's perfect pop star. Like She's so ambitious.. She has a mother wound. So she needs attention and love, which she has said herself. so I'm not, you know She is incredibly beautiful. She's incredibly driven.'s All of the She can dance. She fashion and presentation, totally. It's like everything that you need. and she's incredibly like we said, intellectual and creative She's gonna push things for forward. Audacious, cares about the right social issues, Friend of the gays. I mean, it's like you literally, it's designed from the heavens This album did not hit number one, hit number two, which is kind of interesting.. Also mixed reviews Here's Karen's review. I I can't believe. They let you re hands. For many years, Madonna avoided the internet like gluten. I thought that was really funny. It was a twenty fifteen, totally. Now it would be seed oils. Yeah U Okay, I'm not gonna to read the whole thing, but I liked this passage. Rebel Heart is a long passionate, self referential meditation on losing love and finding purpose in chilling times. It's also a chance for the Queen of pop to floss a bit and reflect on how she painstakingly carved a path others have happily torqued down in the years since her nineteen eighty three debut Good stuff, Bob. than Thank you. that was good stuff You did point out the unfortunate line Yees loves my pussy best. Oh God I know There's some there's some cring. There's some cringe Madonna on this record. Do you want to do you want to go track by track? Yeah, but I want to read your last Okay this last great line. The album is at its strongest when Madonna shoves everyone to the side and just tells it to us straight You know we've been saying, Okay, let's go tryack by a crack. Lin for love Written by Madonna Diplo, Mureen MacDonald, all over this album. She wrote Wreking Ball for Mily Cyrus. also goes by Mozilla. Love Wrecking Ball. One of the greatest songs of all time. Toby Gad and Ariel Reks Dad I'm time Csoet.. Skyfer. Skyferrea Yeah. He's worked with tons of people. Yeah. You love I love it because it's like a housey, you know, there's a house piano. It's a jam I like how it's a jam breakup song, which we love those. Like what's the the great Kelly Clarkkon one? Uh, Sinceeringone. Heroin. Oh I mean it pump it in my fucking vs. And it was love that. When you do Kelly Clarkson, you have not, right No Do not laugh. I love just I will be I am claiming it right now.ostly a peearl jam type podcast Ie, I did do the brereeders review. Y. You can have it for Kelly. I love it Livving for love is good. Um The video is quite ool because she plays a bullfighter, which is sort of an inversion of take a bow Bullfighting boxing She likes like these hyper masculine pseudo sports. Yeah ark forgot sorryark cour. I'll point out that video was directed by French directors Julianne Stracart and Camille Hargoyan who had done a video that was very similar in twenty fourteen for Christine and the Queens. Oh, the song Stain Claude and Butona love that, and so they kind of applied this I can't believe Devil Pray was in a single because that's my That's my favorite song of the actual album tracks That's great. It's so good. I know, it's really, really good. I'm happy that you like it that. I really like it. but you really like these Aichci songs. I love the. I love. because they have they have a lot of heart and soul and like But there're still bang, you know, It's like such a great and that was kind of his magic trick, I think. A lot of writers on this song, a lot of writers on this song. There are a lot of writers Madonna said about it, it's about how people take drugs to connect to God or to a higher level of consciousness. I keep saying plugging into the matrix. If you get high, you can do that, which is why a lot of people drop acid or do drugs because they want to get closer to God. But there's going to be a short circuit, and that's the illusion of drugs because they give you the illusion of getting closer to God, but ultimately, they kill you. they destroy you It's sad. When you think about ultimately A Vichi's arc, Obviously, these quotes were given before he passed. Of course, of course Well, it's funny because like if you don't take a time to think about it, And you just take like a surface level like people could think this song is promoting drug use. Yeah 'causeuse that's kind of what she's saying right all But then she said we can get high and we can get stone and we can sniff glue and we can do E and we can draw assid. We can sniff glue is really funny, sticking that I know. She's like the message of the song, it's not about the drugs, it's about like togetherness and unity. Yeah. It's how you actually find God through other people Yeah through love and connection and world peace And we could sniff the one we could do and we could drop acid I fucking love ghost toown too. Here's a fun factory my favorite ghost town written by Madonna Jason Evan, Seaan Douglas, and Evan Bogart, whoses brother Joyce used to manage kiss. I have an Evan Bogun story for. do you? Yes. Via MNDR, who I took the show Inide of me. Yes. harttful. They're very good friends. They' worked together for years Five years ago, maybe, I went to a like murder mystery dinner in LA with him He apparently was very into this. And Amanda MDR was like, we gott to go. And we brought another one of our friends, Baby Daddy from Scissorsor Sisters. And it was like one of these things where you're running around the house And there's like, you know, clues and stuff. I was hiding under a bed with strangers. Hiding from like somebody banging on actually. It was fun. It was in some mansion somewhere. You know, I do not know LA very well. I know you do And it was it was like absolutely nuts. And then yeah, at the end, it was like revealed who the killer was and it was our friend, It was baby Daddy. And we went back in the house and they had him at the table in a ball gag. And I was like, I didn't know him that well at that point. And I was like, this is really frickaking weird That was my night with Evan Bogart. and I did not realize at the time that he had written the song where I would have said something would have been like I didn't talk to you about that. I love Ghost toown. I cried during this during the show too. I think it wasn't in every night song. I think it was a surprise where she did it one of the nights I came. That's amazing. But I'm a sucker for one of these if the world is ending we're gonna to be together and I love these songs. It's so good. I just yeah, I love I can see like so I guess Jason Evan and Sean Douglas had written Jason Dorillo's talkalk Dirty. And she really liked that. and that's why she txted. That's completely random. Also, Evan wrote Halo for with Beyonce kindind of a big song. Yeah. a big song Yeah, I love it. I don't know what else to say. It's it's dramatic. it' it's Good This isn't like, this is an all timer. This is like in the Madonna Canon. Yeah Ghost toown was a single, secondcond single. Yes. hould have been bigger. The video is pretty cool too. Really high production value. I don't remember the video. It's like really gotothy like And Ricey. Okay. She looks gorgeous. Teren's Howard, isn't it Here's a real wolf Really cool. Big budget. Thanks, Incope The next song is unapologetic bitch I love this song so much. I can't even tell you. God. I listen to on the way here. I mean, it's Diplo, obviously. And Ao It's u It's a super fun, you know, she's flipping everyone off. Right. I rumored to be about her breakup with the dancer, Briams about I could sens her on the last door This was near the end of the tour of the Robel Heart tour and she kind of skanked off stage. this got, you know It's like a reggae dance hall, whatever.cause thing one thing Dipplo is gonna to do Well, it's a Diplo song. There's no going gonna take you to the fucking dance hall or iss gonna to fucking take you to the falla. And you know what, babe, you don't need to take everyone to the dance hall or the falla. There's something about unapologetic bitch, the vibe, the lyrics and the track of the song that just it's a perfect marriage for me And when she was skanking off and then the last image on the screen, it just said by bitches I loved it. This is for me, I love this I think also she said it was partly inspired by the mid eighties playlayboy penthouse New nudes debacle, not debacle because she didn't care, but they printing or she did care, but you know them printing her nudes against her well Absolutely no Reret Absolutely no regret. Don't forget it. Absolutely no regrets I'm not ashamed U, Illuminati That is a song on here. That's a song. It's a Kanye, Mike Dean. Traviscott somehow. a writer around the song. involved in the song. Also eight hundred other people. And it has like a painful Madonna rap. Although I will say when she raps, She's like Gaga when she speaks, it's like this low register. Yeah which cracks me up. It's very interesting. It's not JayZ or you know Yeah. So the song is about how people are misusing the word Iilluminati she educated me on this. I did not know what she was talking about. She was not wrong. No But when she started saying this stuff during the interview, I was literally like googling. I had no idea what she was talking about She's like I know the real Illuminati and here and Leonard da Vinci. Yeah, who knew I'll just move on from this off. Okay for much time to know, thank you. Bcha Madonna with thei Kiminaj. I'm sorry, but I like this too. And Sophie. Ier pop genius Sophie has credits on the song The line bite Madonna originally appeared in the twenty thirteen cool AD song. Eroka He said, bit, I'm Kevinorb, bitch I'm Madonna. It's a great song, Um Diplo, I guess showed that to her. He also explained to Interview Magazine that they were like drinking one night at the studio and he played Madonna a Japanese pizicado melody with a drop, and she lik that. so they kind of built the song around that. Sophie comes in when there's a full demo And what she did She added the arpeggio sense in the chorus. that's like that ethereal yeep. that's me one of the only good parts of the song She talked to the face in twenty twenty about it and about like her different working styles, like how Diiplo works so different and she works so different. how you could hear her so clearly Um, their signatures and stuff. Yeah. She also said that this song was written on acoustic guitar originally because McDonald likes guitar and so Wes went and added some guitar. That's cool. Yeah. I don't know. I really like it. you know, and maybe this is just like a taste thing. I wonder how this song could have sounded produced completely differently 'cause it has really catchy elements and like I just wantna have fun tonight Like, okay, when I could see that being a completely different song. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. But I mean, again, it's just a taste thing, whatever I mean,'t have you take me to Madonna jail, sorry I don't I don't like my Madonna. I can put me in prison. It me in prison next the end of Briz. But it really went off at the end of the celebration tour and all the dancers were just dressed in different Madonna guizes over the years And it was like I saw it. I, Madonna. I'm all these people. Oh, it was good. The video Was this there were famous people in this video? This is directed by Jonah Ackerlland, The the standandard Highline and it has a tons of cameos. Chris Rock, Katie Perry, Rita Aura, Konanye West, Niki Minaj, but on a TV. so I think she wasn't actually there. Miley Cyrus, Diplo, Beyonce. The is in this. That's a get Theance didn't show up. I know that wasp Alexander Wing also uiz rememix of Bak myoul Madonna came to the Beyonce show I was at see the other queen I love that they like each other. I know. It's actually very important to me Yeah The video is crazy. The video is like What are we wearing? It was a different time David Bonded does a little solo dance, Rockco' in it I hate the I hate the, um I hate the aesthetic of this time It's their fault I justate this We did not talk about the album cover. Oh my God, we did not talk about the album. When you said the aesthakeic of this time, I'm picturing her face all scrunched up and you need to talk You like it. I do really like it. Is that bad? No, I think it's cool. I like that is a little bit ugly and that she let that be I like that aspect of it. I think it's very striking.. It's very memorable. I'm not sure I love the font of the kind of an ongoing thing for me with these The fonts. Yeah, that's just like I'm like, this is an unusual choice. But I love the imagery I actually really love it. because A little controversy. Yeah when she was posting it on other people's faces. on Instagram. com Sometimes we make mistakes with filters and things like that. Martin Luther King, I believe was one of them. Yeah, that was not good. Yeah.. One move past that. And she you know, that's a bad faith reading of what she was doing. I'll say it. Yeah hold tight. It's very unremarkable I'm like if you're do that song just make it goost downown and delete this one. I'm okay on this song. c Jonan of Ar I did too. I'm so glad we finally agreed. Do you feel like we like it because it sounds a Taylor Swift s But how could you say that? To me, it sounds like a kind of be aular song. Do you don't feel that' drummy. It's super melodic. Yeah I could absolutely hear Taylor Sift singing this song and writing it Nots that I'm saying she wrote it but ye, no, no, no, I can see it, I could see it. I love it. Again, of course, I'm gonna love it because this is like a it's one for vulnerable analog. Yeah, it's guitar, it's vulnerable. Like peopleople say shit about me my entire career, but you know what? sometometimes it hurts She does not admit that all the time. No. And I think that's really you know, it's a nice counterpint to bitch on Madonna Well it's a nice inside you, there are two wolves. you know, Okaykay Each time Toby Gad, I think being the lead songwriter on this one makes a lot of sense because of the wrecking ball of it all, you know, Totally Okay, iconic. I'm gonna say I kind of like Mike Tyson being love this. I think it's cool. Oh my God, I do not like this. I was gonna say the less said about this, the better is literally what I wrote in my notes. but I don't I didn't say I like the song. I just think it's the idea that she had Mike Tyson. I it wass cool that she like went and saw Mike Tyson's show and was like, I do believe he's iconic. He's one of the people that survived so much has been to Hellen back and there's no one like him. She's not wrong. She's not wrong, but she loves a boxer She loves a boxer. She loves a controversial figure I just have a soft spot for my Tyson, so o muchuch like Madonna. The song is fine. It's fine. It's actually a pretty good chance to rapp reverse I don't believe in that. U Okay, the next song is Heartbreak City Sir Notable because it has twenty two writers. It's not twenty two, but it's likeine. Madonna Avici, Arash Pornuri, Tobius Jimpson, Tobias Jimpson and Michael Fligar from the Swedish band No, no, no. Paloma Stalker, AKA Delilah, Slem Alphakir, Magnus Littlehall and Vincent Pontare That's a lot of writers, a lot of writers. Yeah No know it's kind of heartbreaking. It'sine a little dramatic. Yeahah's good said it's good, but it'sine Okay, I like Body Shop. I like body shhop. and actually it was really great live too on the Rebel Hart tour I watched it. Okay. I thought it was very cute. Very tricken. It goes into true blue because I wrote here before I saw that this very true bluish. It a little bit of a sock hop part of the show. Yeah It was like just like kind of cutesy. Totally. But it's like and again, the lyrics are a little literal a little little candy shop the body shop every knows with these metaphors, but it's actually very cute. Holy water, that's your favorite Yeeezes loves my pussy best. No. but bitch get off my pole Yes Yeah. okay. I'm okay with that. G off my deck. Yep Natalia Kills is on this song? Yes. I was gonna to say, do you remember Natalia Kills? I do, but most people won't. respectfully. Dan Kreppps from Rolling Stone, if you were watching or listening this, I remember going with him to see Natalia Kills.. She had a big moment around this time. She did. Yeah. veryer fun. But then nothing happened with them It's a song about Cutin and Ninglingus Cing this. I think it is holy water. Yeah. and that's fine Next one is inside out. Yeah, it's another one from the Ghost toown crew. Yeah, but this one is It's not really a winter it's not for me now. Wash all over me My note on this is that sort of like a classic Madonna closer where she's going to, you know an emotional place. It's Avichi one, so I assume you like it. I like it okay. It's not the best of the Avichi bunch, but I think it's it's okay. Yeah This is where I'm like So things get icy here is going on So now we've entered Deluxe. This alm has three versions. Yeah. regular deluxe and super Dluxe, which I presume was for sales purposes, right? Yeah. And I would like keep in mind Proto Taylor Swift has seventeen versions of the voice memos or whatever. Yes, But remember again, going back to the beginning of this album, that there was the leak and the six songs released. So Oh yeah, o. Everything about the way this album came out and where the songs are and everything they're all impacted by that. Yeah. And it's like it fucked up the record Yeah. because I know there's other songs you're going want to talk about, but Rebel Heart The title Track. I need I need to scream it from the rooftops. This is the best song on here It's the number one best song I' here It might not be my number one, but it's very up there. I love the song. Your number one is Holy waterater. We've already done first that. You can't leave me. Rebel Heart is a fucking god tear jam Yeah, fine. Is it a little barn courourt? Yeah. and I like barn Court Bad I took the rolless travel roll travel and I barely made it Oh. It's like enemic. It's like it has the entire like it's so Madonna. It has all the themes to try and talk about. I've spent some time as a narcissist Narcissists generally don't say that. No. Its nice to hear it. Talking about how much she was dying to be seen and how maybe it didn't fulfill her sacrifices she made in other elements of her life in her single minded focus of It's a great song It's so, so s. It's so good and it's like I feel sad because I think it's not It will not be remembered because It wasn't a single or put out in that way I know. It was good on the tour though. And it went over big rom what I understand, and you correct me if I'm wrong, Madonna fans really love V V Vi featuring nos. Yeah, they do. I do not like this song. It's not really my favorite I like I like it in the sense that she's celebrating herself and it's like it's basically bands playing Madonna parts one through three. She like look like reflecting and celebrating her own career But we are like this album begins a slippery slope that continues on Metem X where it's like how many rappers need to be on the record Not this many No offense to us. ide do a little offense to ususe . offense. Great rapper, perhaps not a great person SEX. This is gonna be a no for me. That's a no. I'm an open door, let you come inside of me No I just want you to know there's a gen genius comment and I live for genius commenters because they are the most demented mutants alive. And this one just says Madonna here is playing with the word come for it sounds like CUM that has an entirely sexual meaning As a fifty seven year old woman, the material girl still has a very active sexual life. but she no longer has to worry about getting pregnant Do you think that? I'm making some assumptions Okay, Yeah, I means listen Do be happening? I think Janna Jackson was like fifty five when she had her baby. Yeah. I just like the idea of this genius annotator like Googling menopause.. Do you know what I mean? Yeah No, it's not a good song. I need to ask you a really important question and we need to be honest with each other. Okay What's with the lisp think she's wearing the grill On purpose And it makes me insane. Take the grill out You know Once we got to Madam X, Yeah And she has that song I know what're talking Th then I'm like, okay, maybe this was also a stylistic choice. It must have been. She doesn't she doesn't do anything by accident. It's not like she like didn't notice she was lisping with the grill in I just don't I don't get it. It's a little distracting theisp. It's a little It's not good. It's also like Singing extremely sexual innuendo with a lp is so funny. This is cringe Madonna.'s so funny. It's cringe. Messiah, I like it. I'm sorry. I don't care. Take me to the fucking Falla prison. I like it well the song. It's a Vichci song. that's why I like it Autoune baby, I don't like it. Again, you can take me to the Fll that's no good. There's so many songs. Yeah, there's four more that I actually don't have a lot of thoughts on Beautiful scars, borrowed T time, addicted and graffiti heart Graffiti hart means well I honestly don't remember any of these songs. It's not it's not that I'm addicted from MDNA, I presume. No. Okay Okay, well, all right, that was Rebel heart. But we talk about the tour. Yes. So I think I saw this one three times. I really loved it. I think this was You went three times. Yeah. but you went seven to celebration. One of them was in Atlantic City, which was a wonderful opportunity to go gamble before the show. Seven times you went to celebration and not one of them. didn't I. There's a lot to talk about celebration. but I really, really, really did love the Rebel Heart tour. I thought it was great. Iconic a song both sort of dismissed from the album really worked as the opener of the show. I I don't know why, but it did. it just I still don't think it's a good song but I worked as the opener which just proves she can pretty much save everything live. She's back with the electric guitar. Yeah, burning up Yes, really good she ported that over to the celebration tour, I'm sorry She's spinning on a pole for Holy water. Yeah. And then she's doing Vogue while She is spinning Incredible She does deeper and deeper and fs like a naughty cp, and she turns it into a line dance Everyone should be line dancing to deeper and deeper. I just like this is a thing that should be happening. Heartbreak City, while she's climbing up a giant staircase likeike a virgin She's prancing down the catwalk. She looks like she's twenty. I know. it's crazy. I love those moments. There are moments like that in celebration too, which I absolutely loved Rebel Heart on acoustic guitar, so heartfelt Really just like amazing moments And then she I did this like sort of old timey black and white gangster movie thing for Candy shop into material Girl I don't know, Ik it. She's busts out love on Rose Why not? Wh not? And then unapologetic bitch That's when There's one thing I did not like about this. This is when she started having a gimmick every night. Was that the word on the back of her? No, when she had people come up and like eat a banana Oh, Amy Schumer opened the first show As did Madonna invvent this as well. the yes, the like picking someone from a crowd like the I'll put you in jail or whatever. I mean this was like twenty Okay think it's aurint. Yeah She did. It made me crazy, but there's a montage of them in the live thing of all the people she brought up. I was just like, I mean, it was just dumb. But then she skanked out. She came back for a holiday, holiday killer ending It's greatreat to go back to the roots, you know? I really love that show. Is this when L Liz Rosenberg left? It was around now, Yes, because Yes I was going say, it's been a litany of public since then. Yeah. My friend Brian Bumberry took over around now. and he was kind enough to invite me to Miami. So that's why I was at Art Basil for her Tears of a Cown show So was was so Rebel Heart was the one in Australia, or was that the tour before where she had that like really weird So she did that and then she replicated it right back this was the Rebel Heart dressed like a She had the sort of meltdown It wasn't, but it was like an unplanned teears of a clown show that people were like, what are we doing here? Yes. Okay. That did happen during this tour. People were very confounded. Yes But then she did it purposefully as as a fundraiser at ar. It was so cool. It was super cool. and she did toxic. She did Brittney Spears toxic. Like in a grindy, weird way It was an E epic experxience. I can't even believe I experienced it. It was crazy. Yeah This is very cool. We forgot to mention one quick thing before the tour. I noticed what it was. I'. You're like, I don't to talk about it. Well, two things. She appears with Taylor Swift, unannounced at the IHart Radio Awards. That was cool. Theyid you G ghost toown ri I remember this very well. Yeah. She goes on stage with Drake at Coachella Drake had a song called Madonna on that album where he promised to make a girl as big as Madonna. so she wore a shirt that said bigig as Madonna and her hat that says threat She think she's also wearing the bitch at Madonna video And she sang human nature and hung up. and then she kissed him So to be honest. I had eternal sunshine this from my memory And I had to rewatch this morning Not church tongue He grimaced and then later said it was because of her lips. So I disagree You think he didn't grimace? So first, he kind of reached up to touch her hair and she was like, no, and she pushes him away Love that. Yeah I think he was like Damn. Oh, yeah. I didn't read as a grimace. I read it as like Can you believe this just happened? Yeah. Yeah, I can see that Like Who wouldn't be just made out with comeome on. So yes, I read it as a positive thing, but I know that all the press was like was like, o turned off. Probably an aegis thing where they like, o, he had to kiss an older woman. Of course He should be so fucking walky.. All right, so we just talked about the Haiti fundraiser in which She's start doing a couple of Hiti fundraisers around here She also pererformed at the Billboard Awards in May honored Prince and did notothing comparares to you in Purple rain with Stevia Wonder So at this point The big three from the nineteen eighties, she's the only one left. I know. And she makes a big point of this on the I'm sorry, the celebration door And then she raises, okay, this is the one you went to. t Basil seven and a half million dollars from Malawi during Art Basil. That's what it was by auctioning off pieces from her own art collection, a costume from her tour. Bottled Mariannena Grande, black and white photos from her wedding to Sean Penn And then she's named Billboards Woman of the Year at the end of that year And that's what she gives this incredible speech I have quoted a billion times. because Donald Trump had just been elected president. We to remember the month before The night before the election, Madonna did a pop up. Hillary thing in Washington Square Park. And I was down there with all my friends, and I was like, wow, this is really a moment. history is going to be made tomorrow. I'm seeing Madonna right before it happens. And then obviously that did not happen. Yeah We all thought something different. Yeah. But I believe I might be wrong, but I believe that was the billboard speech where she said like the most controversial thing I ever did was like stick around. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of my like The things that is so inspiring to me about her and so suchuch a point of interest for me How much it infuriates people. Yes I mean we obviously haven't talked much about the plastic surgery I don't want to like get too into the weeds about it because, you know, on one hand I am sort of of the mind was like, okay, well, we don't need to like criticize or like assess people's looks But I'm also of the other mind of like, well, this is a person who her whole career kind of invited. Yes discussion and attention of her looks. so I guess could continue or should continue I'm still working out how I feel about it, but I think maybe the most compelling thing to me is that it is like a cippher for You can't help but like, and I know some people have knee jerk reactions one way or the other, but you can't help for me, I can't help but think about what it means on like every level. Like what does it mean to be a woman of a certain age in the public eye? What does it mean to be beautiful? What does it mean to be Beautiful as one of your defining characteristics over two decades of your life, what does it mean to let that go? What does it mean to not let that go? What does it mean to try to part of a beauty standard that was not set by you. you know? Why are women criticized for aspiring to a beauty standard that they did not architect? you know? It's just it's a really interestnteresting and like why is there a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it? Why is it okay if you get tasteful surgery and not okay if you get different surgery? L it's such a labyrinth that for me, it's just like It gives you a lot again, my pink presssy hat right back on my head. but like I do find it really interesting and as like a woman who is like I'm afraid to age Every day of my life, I'm afraid to age because I see, you know, there was a great quote in Mary Gabriel's book that's from Jerman Greer who wrote a book about menopause and she talks about how One of the greatest horror monsters in a culture is aging women. Well, there's nothing more off putting fear inspiring to people than a woman who is eight. Yes one hundred percent to everything you said, I'm of like sixty minds of this schizophrenic,. It's so hard because like one thing that I wish is that like, you know, Madonna broke every mold and she set every trend and she set every bar. And it would have been super cool if there was a world in which she could also set the bar for aging naturally. Sure. And that it wouldn't matter. But it's heroice matter. It is her choice.. And yeah, we're about to enter an era where, you know, something started to look different And it was hard not to notice. It it became very like people were going for quotes to her publicists all the time. You know, like, o, did she get button plants? Did she do do this? And it's like People are always going to be talking about her. That's part of the whole thing. It's like a shame that it overshadowed everything else because like it wasn't that's not the art. That's not the art of Madonna. And I completely understand. she's literally, she exists to be looked at And she's choosing how she wants to be looked at, how she wants to be regarded I can go a million ways on it. I think it would have been amazing If there was a way. sureure But I don't know that there's way, not in this world, maybe in a hundred years Probably not. Yeah. I just I just don't know what the alternate I mean I'm sure there's many alternatives. I also think it's worth pointing out that like A person who's a meticulous planner like this, there's some things you can't meticulously plan and plastic surgery is one of them. like. There are so many ways that it can go. There are so many advances that will happen later. you know, like it's it's a constantly changing field. like There's also so many elements of getting older that there's absolutely no way to rewind You know, like her muscles will weaken at a certain point. You know what yet She's had this knee injury, you know that happened around Madame X time that plagues her to this day. You can see her wearing the tape under her outfits and stuff. It's like there's something she's not going to be able to control. But she can control this. and we've discussed how much she likes to control things. I just think she is unfairly made the like target of all of the ire around Plastic surgery.. I, obviously everyone gets it, but like she just seems to get it more than anyone else. She gets everything more than everybody else. There was a video montage. I apologize again at the end of the celebration tour where it was like I think Patrick actually mentioned this during his episode where it was like a look back to all the time she was a headline every second. And it's like, you know, it's another day and there's a new Madononna controversy Every day she was the Nightly newews.. Every day she was from Page News. Everything she does will always be a little bonus controversy. I just I'm really tired of like it's usually men, but it's like pureitanical, like can't she shouldn't do that I can't believe she do that. When there are women up in your face. Yeah. If you see a woman on television, she's had plastic surgery. I will lay down my life since HD ninety eight percent. No, even ones that you even I'm like I'm not gonna dox people, but like you name an actress, she's done something to her face All of them, every single one, except for like with a very few exceptions and you can tell when they have it. You just can't tell what the ones are because the way they do it. And then you think that that's the beauty standard. You think, No, Anne Hathaway just looks amazing. She sleeps well. okay. You know, There's no criticism of that. I just it really infuriates me and I'm sure it's infuriates me because I'm a woman that has to live under the gaze for now, you know. Sher has taken it for Dolly Parton though, but I mean, because Dolly turned it into the joke. Yeah. you know she's approached it differently. Butonna just doesn't want to talk about it. She doesn't want yeah. she's not putting it, you know front and center. And she doesn't have to. She can do whatever the fuck she wants Um, all right Speaking of pink pussy h Madonna attends the women's March. Yes on Washington. I was also there. We you there? Yeah. o cool Welcome to the Revolution of loveo, to the rebellion, to our refusal as women to accept this new age of tyranny, where' not just women are in end danger, but' all marginalized people. We're being uniquely different right now might be truly considered a crime It took this horrific moment of darkness to wake us the fuck up She told the crowd of five hundred thousand and prof performed to express yourself in human nature Remember back then when we thought when smmart was kind of fixed? Were we ever say The next mon she adopts the twins from Malawi, Esther and Stella They were four at the time. And then that September she picks up the whole family and moves to Portugal, which I understand. many people Well, she under the guise that she had become soccer mom and that David was like a budding soccer. was a gu. I mean he is. He's a gifted athlete. He's very I think it was it was a one two punch situation. It was like, I don't want to be in America anymore. This shit sucks, which like, who can fuck and relate? And my son And also I'm one of the richest people in the world and've. I would not live. Why not good at Lisbon. Yeahah This is I in Lisbon is where the seeds are definitely planted for MadamX. I'm going I'm going to stand up for no one else you will please for matter. I'm not going to I'll read this little quote In twenty thousand six from Billbward. in twenty thousand seventeen, Mona thought she was moving to Portugal to be a soccer mom, but instead the sixty one year old icon found inspiration for her then upcoming album, Madam MX, thanks to a friend she calls her musical plug. Dino DSantiago. One night, the Cape Verdie born Lisbone based singer, who coached Madonna on how to spepeak Portuguese and sing in Portuguese and Creole, had arranged a concert for her by Batuaeras Orchestra, a group of female drummers specializing in Batuca, a rhythic col and responseyle created in Cape Vertdy during the early days of the slave trade I'd never seen anything like it, never heard anything like it. So of course, I couldn't get out of my head, says Madonna Respect She loves to be inspired. She does It's twenty eighteen. now she debuts her new song Beautiful Game at the Met Gala I forgot about that Yeah. People tell me to shut my mouth that I might get burned. She saying during the religious theme set coincide with the event's heavenly body scene. That was one of my favorite Michaal themes eep your beautiful eyes because I'm not concerned That's not bad. not bad Do you remember the tribute to Aritha Franklin at the VMAs? Yeah, no, I do remember that was not that did not go over well. People didn't like it, but I was like kind of like, well Fareankntly from what I read, they had asked her to come talk about how Aretha inspired her and her career. and that's basically what she did. And they were like, you talked about yourself too much. Well also a fun fact. So for Madonna's sixtieth birthday, I did a p No. Everyone, please find the future we did the New York Times called sixty Ways Madana change our culture. It's like one of my favorite things we ever did as a team And we published it on Madonna's birthday And it had like five hours on the homepage, and then Aretha Franklin died. You're like d Well first of all, devastating news because she's another queen. It was very a day for queens. And a very inspirational queen too, Madonna, who she talked about a lot in the early days. Incredibly so, but it meant that sixty ways Madonna changed our culture left the homepage. And only the Aretha's stuff rolled out. So I was like, Madonna, I understand why you're a little bit sensitive Aretha. tootally. And again, she just did what they were they asked her to do. She did In twenty eighteen, she coll sorry, in october twenty eighteen, she collaborates with Cueavo and Cardi B for the song Champagne Road. Forget about that. Yeah, me too, honestly. because it's a kind of a forgettable song Drink me up, Champagne Rose. It's my game. Please fill my cup, Champagne Rse. It's my name It's important because this is how she meets Cueva. Yeah Okay, in twenty nineteen, it's now time for the full Madamax album to come out june fourteenth Listen, Mary Gabriel said that this represents a marker in Madonna's career as important as like a prayer array of light, and I say yes I say no. Okaykay U Oh my god We also keep in mind, we are on the other side of sixty here. Yeah I onene of my longest held beliefs is that I want Madonna to go Bjork mode Yes now, you know? Yes. And I think this is kind of in a way going gurk mode, you know Go on. We've left the candy shop and the like, here's what's hip right now. I'm part of it. We've left Songwriter camp, which I think in my opinion Rebelhar has so much good stuff and I think it could have been so much better. If' on it. No, no, totally true Okay, listen, stay with me. Yeah. And then she was like, I'm just gonna go back to what I like, which is doing whatever the fuck lights me up And working with one producer, well, I don't know if this was actually in the end, one producer, but Well, you know, there were some leftover songs so we have credits, the way credit is them. But really I think the primary architect of this album with her was Mirirway, right? Yeah. She sent that back to Kara things sent Dir away and said, I don't know if I'm crazy, but is there something here and he started working on tracks I like that she made a character Okay Yes. I like the eye patch. I'll say it. Okay. I like that she's sort of like a global detective, you know, mentic woman of mystery, but she had to wear that frreaking eye patch an entire. I think it weakened her eyes. Pomo thing. And like it obviously was not working out for her She wored on stage during the show. You could tell that she was like worried about getting up and down a lot of these steps. Yeah I thought it was cool. I think visually is very striking Is every song on here good? No, okay, I'm not deaf. You can ride for this. We're going to have to go track by track though. There are some tracks that I'm like, okay, I would love to die, but we'll get into them. Okay. So the MadamX Altrigo is named after the nineteen oh eight play written by Alexander Bissant, as well as the eighteen eighty four portrait by John Sror Sargent She said in the album Teaser, I decided to call my record, Madamax. Madamax is a secret agent traveling around the world, changing identities, fighting freedom, bringing light to dark places. She is a dancer, a professor, a head of state, a housekeeper An equestrian, a prisoner, a student, a mother, a child, a bitch, a k, a teacher, a nun, a singer, a saint, a whore, a spy in the house of love. I am. H housekeeper really threw me out there, but I am also a housekeeper in my house so She also said that Martha Graham, one of her early dance teachers would call her Madamx because every day you come to school and I don't recognize you, every day you change your. I like that. That's the best thing I like about this Yeah The artwork is again by Stephen Kleine. She's wearing Diamond Art Deo earrings by Penisi jewelry, black hair, pale skin, arched eyebrows, thin smile, red lipstick I think the Frida Callo not cool I like that writing the lettering is. And again, like you said about Rebel Heart, it's not flattering. Yeah. whichich I think is really cool. It is that is, that is. And the lips sh shut. you know, we already know what that is. I'm not if you want me to shut up, I'm not shutting up bitch But Medin is a good song. Mediian is a goodamean song. M M Medigine Mine. Medein is a fucking banger. and Maluma is hot as hell. Yeah. She She put him on two songs albums so she could hang out with Miluma. You mind if a white girl speak a little, Spaniel? And I love it. I love it. yeah, I would put Melima. I'll put Melima wherever he wants to go. He can be the second chair of this podcast. But let's hit a little bit of cringe here We built a cartel just for love But the rest of the song is okay. And Edgar Berrera, who works on this song is al right. It's like like a total, you know, bonafide Latin music, mega producer superstar I didn't experience this in real time. Like I told you this before. kind of after confessions, like I was like, ooo, Madonna, unfortunately, that's my bad, but I was like busy doing other stuff. W that you're really back. And so I'm so back. off course, I heard four minutes. I mean, things break through, but I didn't sit with the albums. I was working here at spotify dot com that at this time and Viva Latino playlist was huge and there was so much around those artists. and I feel like she was quite early in adopting Collaboration with these big artists. Yes, because Anita iss on this record. was very early for Anita, which is super fucking cool. But you know, my doa has had a taste for Latin. Things for her entire life us. Yes. I also have a taste for Juice' Lu I think that's cool. It's not bad song. I like it When it came out, I was excited I went to some preremivent at MTV. Who the video? Yeah, a video is great. I mean, if you listen, if you invite me to a Madonna event nine times out of a one hundred, I will show up. I showed up theo. Yeah. But I thought she was gonna be there and she was like in another country. And I was like, Oh, being Carmen San Diego? Yeah to get married in the video There were kuses. They bonded over theirse writing at the MTV Awards But then after this things get really, Okaykay, you know what? I like dark ballet. I'll say it with my whole trust. I like dark ballet. Upon first listen, I was like, I did the full Kombucha meme Major me was like my favorites,es Andmm I'm here. I'm like, you know what It uses the dance of the Reed fllutes from Tchakovsky's the Nutcracker. Iconic. Okay At first I was like, D you just say Supreme hoodie? but that's my personal trauma that jumped out I has nothing to do with Madonna. No, But she can dress like a boy, she can dress like a girl. We've been there before. We're talking about Donna A She's talking about Don of Arc, who fought the English and she won, and still the French were not happy. Still they judged her, she said. They said she was a man. they said she was lesbian. they said she was a witch. and in the end they burned her at the steak and she feared nothing. But she has a called Don of Arc that's good. Well, why can't we have favorites that we mine? You know, she's been talking about Frida Clos since fuck in nineteen eighty two Um, I like it. I think it's okay, here's it's also it's too slow for mebe. I can'ts weird. Yeah. I like how fucking weird it is. Nobody is making A Cchaikovsky referencing Kind of rap about Joan of Arc in the year twenty twenty. I give you all that. so yes They are so nice Stay syn aware. And she put Micy Blanco in the video to displ played Jonanah Bark so fucked That's coolool. Micy Blanco culture at the moment had was kind of on the way out, but yes, had done the Beyonce stuff. Yeah. It starts with a Joan of Arquoke, the video, One life is all we have and we live it as we believe in living it, but to sacrifice what you are and to live without belief that is a fate more terrible than dying And then it ends with one from Micy Banco. I have walked this Earth black queer and HIV positive, and no transgression against me has been as powerful as the hope I hold with him. I find a very movie withupreme h a powerful quote. T Gala Baldwin quotes in the live show for this. She knows what she's talking about. This this song' like seven minutes long. This song is such a no for me, I'm sorry. but I love that you love it I love it. It's cute. I think that's cool. God control. Okay, so I will say this. this is where I'm This is rough, but Madonna played pride Yeah. likeike two weeks after the album came out, and it was like LA one or the one here? Another one here. It was on Pride Island on the west side of Manhatt. Got it. God, getting into this thing I have a lot of issues with like Gay in at pride, not like letting anybody else have any space. Got it. Like I was literally being punched in the face as I was trying to get through the crowd to this thing. It was like an actual nightmare. but she did she did vogue, which was like epic And it was like preview of the Madam MX show, but she did the song and it was good. And I was like, okay, this works live in a way that really does not work on the record. She's singing like through clenched teeth. Perhaps the grill is in. I'm not one hundred percent sure. It's a very didactic song. She said violence. I wanted to sing as if someone had wired my jaw shut and I wasn't odd to speak because that's why she sound like that. Yes, that track says what she sounds like But there's some really cringy wrap in here that includes that's why I don't smoke that dope. That's really bad. That dope is a little, I felt like a dork of It is and it ends with some sort of doctor Susy thing and it's just like very processed. It's not my favorite s on here. I don't know. I'm just gonna say it did work live. Everything I'm saying sounds very negative, but it really did work live. This song It kind of had like it had a choir, it had like a vibe, it had like an energy. Even when she said that's why I don't smoke it. It did. even even. This song is Madonna in Mirway and Casey Spooner Oh yeah, which I'm not going to get in again. No we're not going but there was not given anyen to the some drama, but it was very funny that at one point he posted that he was Poor in Berlish Madalonna had not paid me for his track. I know. I'm poor it. A lot of people that try to talk to me about this It feels like a result of your own choices. Yeah, but anyways, I love Fisherpoon and we're not gonna we shit on. We love. but I just thought that was very funny. Yeah. The video is very controversial Well, it's a gun violence thing understand what she was trying to do. I agree that I don't think it was successful. But I think I have to give it to her that she's constantly trying to provoke people into thinking about things differently and to paying attention to things Again, it's not maybe with the skittest of gloves. Yes And I think a lot of people were very upset by this. Yes And I personally don't also enjoy watching it. Yeah. but I think it's cool that she was really passionate about gun control and was trying to like make a statement in some way about. Y Pulse nightclub shooting. Yes. There are a lot of things that she was referencing here Again It works live. That's all I'll say. It does not work in many other context, but it did work live Future Yeah, it's also kind of a nough for me. Did you this is how I learned that Cueava's name is Cavius Marshall I I didt know that for some reason. Yeah. But yeah, this album is just like larted with rapper features. And just like I hate features in general I don't want tona point fingers, but there's a writer on this song and his name is Delo. Can't move themong. I know I Dara, who who was coming up. Do you feel like this was a leftover from Rebel heart? Yeah, because it sounds like an apologic bitch. Yeah That's why I' kind of Yeah. I think it's cool. Again, I'm not going to like Listen to it for pleasure per se. I'm like physically uncomfortable with this wrer. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah Listen I think for me always, I would prefer something completely off the Richter scale than something mid. I just have I have a fucking like all these I listened to them for the past two weeks. We we just talked about them. I couldn't gun to my head. I couldn't name you one of those songs that If you were like, what does addicted sound like? don' know I've never heard that song. See all those all these Ive literally just like I've erased them from my memory. I' like you forget Batua. I know. I know there's a troupe of drummers, but then she's got her vocals are like megap processed and I don't like the sort of like natural soundound of the organic drumming with extra processing. Yeah. ye it doesn't work for me. I just I like how striking it is. It is striking. Killers who are partying is very It's like, I want to like it I wrote, I have fully forgotten this song and I think that's okay Ib be Islam, you don't remember. I do know If Islam is hated, I'll be Israel if they're incarcerated. Currently at the Matamor, she said, Palestine inste of Israel. I don't remember that, but for you Yeah for you,. And I can't I know. listen, we don't have This is Crave with Swaye. I like Crave. You don't like Crave? What I wrote was these songs have no tempo. I hate the singing style It's like she's wearing her grill. I know the singing style is polarizing for some fans on this song. I just think she sounds fabulous. I think the song is really These songs have no soul toy. Okay To me, they're just sort of like blobs I go. I guess I'm like I have a really high tolerance for that. Okay. L I don't I don't need We're learning a lot about each other. Yeah. I mean, you're well, you're a pop music right? I'm not really like I like pop music, but not because it's pop music. So I don't really care about the contours of pop music. I don't care that things have song structure. You know, like obviously I'm I like You know weird, you know I mean, I like that stuff too you sureure. But I tain multitudes. I know you do I know you do I guess I'm just yeah, this is fine for. I just I think Suai has a really cool voice It's an interesting pick I find crazy to be very whatever I don't get it. That's a y'all mind if a white girl speaks in Portugese,. And it sort of like a It's another like a doop tempo thing where I'm like, I don't know, I know what you're doing. It's not my favorite, know. Okay. I have a lot to say about comeome alive. This was so incredible at the show. I think I cried becausecause of the like itor was African kind of It was there was so much energy to it. It actually does have a great melody. It was like, I love, I think it's bigingger. It's good. It does work on record, but like seriously, like everybody was on stage. like a lot of people, a lot of musicians all wearing like very colorful garb Everyone really just singing their hearts out. It was very Euphoric and powerful and stirring. It was like it was a peak moment of that show. I think it wass really good song Tough show, by the way, because it was no phone show. We were aled in yonder pouches. and she did go on like two hours late. So I was sitting there without my phone for two hours like losing my mind. She was trying to teach you once again to want a moment, be present with yourself and your thoughts. I know. I filmed so much of the celebration tourget. I can actually put together a super cut on YouTube. I bet you could. I could, I'm sorry. But yeah, this was And also on the album, I'm like, okay, so finally there's some momentum. L something is building here. Yeah. I really love the song. I think it's great. I also really like the song with Anita, Faz Gostosso I think it's cool. Yep I thought it was interesting that she had to kind of relearn even th no I don't think Madonna speaks fluent in Portuguese, but because Anita wanted to do it for her Brazilian fans, which is a very different style of Portuguese than Portugal Portuguese. And so she kind of did that to do it with her. And I think' I think it's a pretty cool song and Anida is cool I'm totally okay with it So I really like bitch I Loca because I love Malumon and I think it's fun. It bangings. I'm afraid to say it bings. I said not that. I fear it b. It's a sequel to the opener. I don't I don't hate it I know you just love Meluma. I really like I don't search Files. This is a winner. I mean, this is an all time Madonna Banger. I mean, this is on the list. This is an amazing song. She did this at Pride two. and I was just like, oh my God, it's happening I think this is a high point of the album The only I mean, come alive in my number two, but like I thereare. I remember when I was listening to this and I had it early. I was playing it for like just a handful of gay men. where we were just like o Godo, God a go God. and we hit the song, and it was like Well, it's very much like like water in a desert. F factra roots. Like it's a housey clubby, vogy kind of sounding song and it's wonderful It becomes her record breaking fiftieth number one on Billboard's Hot Dance. It a fun fact for you. The spoken interlude. It's our Gypsy blood. We live between life and death waiting to move on. and in the end we accept it. That's actually an adapted version of a speech in full from a character from Peaky Blinders named Polly Gray. Really? Literally almost exactly. Did not know. Yeah. That is a great song though. I mean, like it's wonderful. It's not It does not justify all of Mamx, but it's really, really good because then we have another no tempo song lookingooking for mercy And then I'm sorry, I'm skipping to the end. I hate IRA. I hate IRA. It makes me legitimately angry and she ended the show with it and I wanted to leave. I was like It's kind of like the video that we just talked about where it's like The intention is good The road to Hell though, paved with those Yeah the song is not good That's not good I like extreme oxidant, which is from the Deluxe Quite good. I think when Madonna and M' are left to cook, we get some cool and interesting stuff It bad after the beata is just bad, it's clearly a leftover. I thought all the other extras were really rough. Yeah. Punana, kind of bad. Chobella, not bad with a kimi javate. I that's kind of interesting I like matamx. as a whole. There are some low points, but I just find it I find it far more interesting than the last three albums that we talked about, even though Maybe the last three albums have some better songs. I just as a project, I find it more compelling cannot agree with you. okay. We don't we're all there's many flavors debate for debate in the world. I think everyone should have their personal opinion And they don't have to convert other people. Okay That's that's what art is for is for enjoyment Artists are here to disturb the peace. with the balwing quote she opened the Madam X show with where I actually I really like this show. People hate the show. People were rooting. thought it was I thought it was visually very stunning People were angry. I kind of like how she was like, Oh, did you think aroundround Ress culturure appropriation Here's my fan But I like that she was like, I'm gonna make a cabaret basically. Like a lot of crowd workk. a lot of it, like I saw it twice, so I knew that some of it was repeated, but like a lot of crowd work Interaction. It felt so accessible. It was like, you know, sort of like it was she did operaouses and theaters. It's likeew see. And you're like, wow, I'm really close to these performers. Like I thought that was really cool Jhn Perrellis reviewing for The New York Times. I was the editor. Yeah. Yeah. C Madam Mx show, reimagines Pop Spectacle for Theater stage Merging her newest music and calls for political awareness was striking intimacy. that actually was ck I might have written that not him but it was great. Jo John' review of the show was so good as they always were John Perrellis on Madonna, by the way, unheraled, but he is great critics on her ever. I quote him a bunch of timeses throughout our art because as I like to always say to John O John Carmonica, like if there's someone I'm looking up, guess we interviewed them. Yeah, everyvery time, John Parl. Every time I feel like, oh, have we written about this before? Yes And John did. Anyway. Amazing. But just a couple of moments from that tour, if you don't mind, please.'s a couple. Okay. Well the real, I mean, the one everybody talked about because it was was frozen unbelievable moment. She is sing singing delivering unbelievably great vocals and behind her massive on screens or the Lordist dancing Oh it' and it's like this big huge Lordortress, right? And she's kind of like she'ss so awesome. Really powerful. And it was just, I love. Especially given that Ray of Light was such a song about motherhood and her first child was L, It's like so beautiful And Batua was great with all the drummers and singers. There were so many staircases. and she really started messing up her knees and stuff. And by the end of this tour, COVID had hit. So like it was impacting the end of it. whichich was, I mean, again, everything about this was like, Jesus. You know, it was a little cringe But we're all going there Yeah I'm cringe as Hell already, and I'm going keep going there. There's no way to age and not become cringe. This is It was one of her biggest experiments. So when you say you love this, I'm like I love it from the perspective of like she really put herself out there. It was very Ultimately a vulnerable thing. Also left a lot of money on the table. Yeah Well she made it all back on the celebration tour, but yeah. Sorry. I could have made double, you know? Yeah, yeah It was brave, which is not always a compliment, but I do think it was brave. It was just like at this point, she's performed in every size venue in every kind of place and then sheeps sets up these little weird residencies I just that to me is old Madonna, not old sorry old school Madonna. I is like going back to like following I think she's at her strongest when she follows her interests and whims and desires and no matter how weird they are and like and still and pix collaborators. But I thought ye, the collaborators on Madam X. you know, short of Puebo or whatever, we're just far more interesting I just like really, I'm just like anti feature in general. I get it. Like whenever I see an album blarted with features, I'm just like, you don't need these. It's you know. Well, the good news is that our arc is not done. because as of obviously, b what a month or two ago. I don't remember the time of what day is it? It actually was almost exactly four weeks ago. And then by time this comes out, it'll be like a month and a half or two mons or whatever Madonna surprised As all. Well, we knew she was working on it. Yes, that's true. I wasn't actually that surprised. Although I didn't know she was working on it when I first conceived of this Madonna month because I'm just a witch You are a very powerful witch. Thank you. You know, the dream of a Conessions too had long been, you know, In the her. Yes. I think I tweeted about it like a couple of million times, just like give us confessions too. And then when it seemed like it was actually coming to pass, then I started to panic because I was like what if it wasn' as good as confessions on? and I got worried, but then we did get something and it was great. I think I feel so free is really good. I love I genuinely like it. Al also an iconic song for my new era. Yes. Yeah, exactly. jump. I feel so free Also I kind of like the Sabrina Carpenter song It's not as strong as I feel so free to me and I'm not a huge personally a Sabrinan carpenter fan. But I think again, I like the messaging And It's kind of subtle, but it's very much like Oh, sorry, you wanted me to lay down and die. I'm not doing that. And she returns to Coachella with Sabrina to sort of show everyone how it's done totally Um we both heard some songs off the the new album and I thought they were very good I was Re Really relieved. I'm. It seems obnoxious. I'm not relieved. I'm happy. you know, like, I'm just like, I' relieved dis for a personal thing because I didn't want to set myself up for disappointment But this is like this is truly Madonna's milio And if confessions was seen as a little bit of a corrective after American life To me, confessions too will definitely be a corrective after madam m. Itakes sense. No, I mean I think just also like spiritually, it makes sense. it's very similar. we're like you know MadamX is is austere and like ye making kind of statements whereas like We're back to having fun., you know. Back to the dance floor where it really all begins for her. Yeah. so I can't wait. And then if I could be so greedy I think I would love to hear one more Madonna album I wanted to reunite with Patrick Leonard. too me Some of the best music she's ever made in her life is with Patrick Leonard. and I would just love a couple more songs. Well, I would say it's not an impossibility because also remember that confessions too, she's returning to Warner Brothers. Oh She's home So maybe we'll some bonus. maybe I super Dluxe or whatever. I mean I would take it Let's close out by me asking you because I think it's only fair. What what's your number one favorite Madonna album? Oh God. I'm very sorry to do that to you. I didn't prepare You should know it. I know As confessions or music, Wow, interestnting. Yeah erest I am later. Our friend Cody Chrisal To who is an incredible artist and director and creative director and songwriter and artist All in one. Al also his favorite is music I think's the best McDonal. What is your favorite? It's hard. I kind of oscillate back and forth B betweenween Like a P prayer and True Bue. Oh yeah, Th those are like the two I listen to probably the most, but I love mean I fucking love Eerotica I fucking love bedime story So that era is kind of my favorite. I mean, obviously Love these records. I appreciate favorite. Yeah. I've been listening a lot of True Blue. Like even though I'm like up to here with Madonna Some days I'm like, I'm put on trouble because it' Just ball to ball hits. Yeah Um, Karing Gs, this has been an honor and a pleasure to spend your first day of freedom Um indulging ourselves in Madonna ology It's a dream come true I hope people enjoyed it. I hope U we don't go to jail, Madonna prison. for cancellation for saying Um that some things we don't like, but I think that if you're an honest with yourself about an artist that you love, you're allowed to like and don't like some stuff And I hope you guys really enjoyed this seventy seven hour four part history of Madonna Arc And we can't wait for confessions too Oh my God,es Come back next week for a new episode of Vansplanain If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Bandplaine. Our guest today was Karen Gansz. This episode was produced by Rob Sunderman and edited by Adrian Bridges with help from Justin Sales, videoide production by Olivia Ciry. Thanks to Bell Roman, executive producers for Bans Splayain are Gginina Dellback and me, Yasi Solid. Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethany Cstantino and Jennifer Clayan and grraciously recorded by Carlos Del Garza in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to our producer emermeritus, producer Dylan, AKA Dylan Tupper Rupert, and also Sean Fennessy and Sugarfish. Come back every Thursday for a new episode of fansplain on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcast like, You know what, Monada you can dance for two hours, but come podast for four hours. We'll see how that goes