Advice for an Amicable Divorce

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Yeah Yeah, because I've had this off of being a musician and everything. And then when I told my manager, he went You do realize if you like if you and so are the couple who said, yourour life is never going to be the same. And I said, What you mean? He said, Like Becauseuse at that point I was sort of at the top of my powouse A at that point she was doing the radio and breakfast show and going on. I mean you were both meg. It's like you put you two together, it's like this is going be, you know And you know, that whole tabloid thing, which I never really had before, I was just I was only like band famous. I wasn't tabloid famous And my manager said, I don't know if it's going to be good or bad. he said, but Your life is going to change, you know I remember watching it as an outsider and the amount of public scrutiny from the Sabs it was relentless. Zoe is so she was kind of used to it and she talkught me through it But it was we were both ing a lot And All our friends were partying a lot. We all were, you know But also working really hard, you know, for the first couple of years she was still doing the breakfast show. and you know, be in cs. for go. So are you like two hours? That's ye, yeah ye. But yeah, we knew were young you can do them. but we were yeah, and then we were So we were juggling Both having very successful careers that took up a lot of our time, but also parting a lot. But going through it together was great because she Zoe always a really good teacher. She was really good. She's really measured and she's kept me really down to earth. She's like you don't, you know, don't forget to say thank you to them, you know, and don't forget We had this tremendous adventure together and kind of went to a place went to a place probably that we never could have gone on our own. It was like our careers and our thing the' some of the two parts where we became this sort of par couple. So she was and still is, you know, we're still really good friends. And I think our triumph is to remain really good friends and parents. even though we're not a couple anymore And can I just say hats off? That thinkum that is quite a difficult one. It's hard. It's quite difficult one, but luckily we've sort of found a way. It was a bit awkward at first, but then we've got this rhythm where we're now I think we' really good fact. We'd probably actually better than we were when we were a couple. But we brought up we're very proud of the two kids we brought out. and I'm quite proud of the parents and that we know, as firm friends as we ever were. Sometimes, especially in midlife, you can get into a relationship and get a bit stuck and realize that you've slightly grown apart and that you're just kind of coexisting. and People get stuck there because you're paying a price whatever you do When their relationship inevity breaks up on then you start playing games with each other and bitterness and grudges and if that then starts rubbing off on your your job as parents, then for me that's, you know, that was The thing We just said it's like whatever happens is c't You know, affect the kids and everything has to be about them And but that doesn't necessarily mean staying together for the kids. you know a lot of people just stay together. I mean my parents lived at the opposite end of the house for the last few years of my life and Yeah, it's I think it's so important. It's just getting over You know, when you break up with someone there, you've been couple It's hard to readjust, but you just have to get over the bits and the things and I've seen so many of my friends and they're just ripping each other apart and they're ripping kids apart as well. Yeah, I think it's you know, when you sign on to be parents, that's for life. Sign off for marriage, you can get divorced, but you can never stop being parents partner with Doo Health for this episode and I want to tell you why Fty six percent of Due Health members showed signs of hidden cardiovascular risk after doing their blood test. forty six percent And you know what? they had absolutely no idea, no symptoms, no big dramatic warning. And look, I get why people put this stuff off because results can feel really scary. you know, you think What if I find out something I can't unknow Finding things early can change everything and that's what's great about what Dr. Rongand has done with Doo Health. This app gives you something clear enough to question. Understand then act on It checks your blood three times a year, including lots of things many of us have never even been tested for. and then it explains your body is telling you clearly and calmly and then gives you a weekly plan with an in app coach So you know what to do next. More worry It's a way forward Go to dohealth dot co slash begin again and use code begin again to lock in early access pricing How did you meet Charles? At work? Yeah, I was his boss strictly speaking because I became news editor in the late nineteen nineties and He was the technology correspondent of science and technology and I just So u He's a good person, he's really smart There was a huge round of redundancies going on So it felt like every three months would be in the pub saying goodbye to a bunch of people and then we kind of built our relationship from there. And Everything changed, you know, as, you know it is a Even if it's done amicably, which mine was, it is such a dislocating thing to live through because it's a shift of your identity. And there is something to do with walking into a room and people knowing even if he's not there that you are a a wife or a misses or you know, you are a partner to somebody and then to go in by yourself is somehow really hard and there's some people who I find it very difficult that you've done this and so I was sort of quite shocked by some people's ions And that's always a funny thing, is it? Oh yeah, then people's reactions to your divorce is such a, especially if you are a woman who works hard and is visibly successful because it's automatically down to you. It's u It's your fault for not being present or for not working harder and The one thing I All I can tell you is that I work hard at everything. relelationships, you know Some things just end And, you know, nobody needs to know more than that. but You know, we discussed earlier on that you and I shared a divorce lawyer one of my proudest possessions is the email she sent me after I got divorced saying I wished all couples could handle it with the grace and kindness that you two showed each other. And my ex husband is still my friend and we speak every week and he has Christmas with us So I would really like to just ask for your You know, it can be three, it can be four, it can be five, whatever. Yeah U bits of advice for anybody watching this who is getting divorced Yeah. because You never hear that. that couples It's it often it might start, Oh we're going to be amicable and then it's not And you've done it. Yeah. How did you do it? OkayK, the very very first thing is never marry a man you wouldn't want to be divorced from Wait B So Are they a kind person? Do they treat people with respect? Do they talk badly about their exes? All these are key indicators of how that person is going to be about you once you're no longer Can I say something, G on You've literally blown my mind I have never heard that Don't marry a man that you wouldn't be prepared to be divorce like or you wouldn't want divorce from. Like like I don't mean that like you know I know about divorce. You're notinking about divorce it's like if you were in conflict with this person How do you think they would be? Yes. that is the most Because that is who they are at their core, right? Are they a good person? Is what you're saying? Yes. And my ex husband is a good person. That's amazing Okay, so the second biggest one is just It's actually not about you, it's about your kids. You've made a decision that is going to profoundly affect them. Even the best divorce is going to have a negative effect on them and you have to acknowledge that and So even when your ex you might want to kind of stick pins in a dolly or you know, you kick the wall or whatever. You don't do it in front of the kids. Nothing. they get none of it. Absolutely not of it. Get some therapy, get a best friend, punch a pillow, whatever. None of this is going to your kids because even if you are tight lied and polite about your ex, they will feel it. They pick up on every vibration So I would also say pick your battles. Does it really matter? I mean, I had dinner with Catherine Bedford this divorce lawyer and she was telling me about how Some people will literally bankrupt themselves over who gets the guinea pig. And you have to just say Does this really matter Do it matter? And one of the other really important things was when we divided up the things in the house Although there were things that I loved that I let go of, and we'd agreed that any family heirlooms should stick with any I wanted the kids when they went into his house to see things they recognized and to feel like they were at home. I wanted them to be comfortable and I think he felt the same way. So we were generous with each other at every point M that sounds very healthy Yeah, I'm not going to say it was fun. No, off course, but everyone to go get married if it was. Yes. you know what I mean? Yeah yeah yeah. It's meant to be fun. But you did do it in a because as a good man, we were able to talk honestly and at a point when Some lawyers were advising me not to be honest with him. I was honest with him and trusted that he was still essentially the person that I'd married twenty two years earlier And so it was. And so now we talk about stuff all the time. and you know not just the kids will'll still check in with each other and we buy each other birthday gifts. He is part of my family. I'm not married to him anymore, but he's the father of my kids. I want them to be able to come to me if they've got concerns about something that's going on with him and not feel Well dad And and yeah, he he has been Yeah, he's someone who will always be in my life. and I never have any regrets about having married him because he gave me the three best kids in the world. And I'm not sure I would have had the career that I had without his the way he was with me and my career, if I'm honest