Self Care and Final Thoughts

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And so when Dolce wanted this bigger, more muscular guy, that the actual pond to fish from at that point wasn't big because everyone wanted to followed the trend and gone skinnier and I had gone the other way. I tell the story once. I shot the campaign with Scott O'Hans sometimes. I got a call from my agent management. Yeah, the drop to you out. Do you know what it's like in morning? You're alone a lot of the time. I'd like to talk to you about the love life . There was not anyone in the industry that I could almost trust and now with manus for the names of Andrew Tate. They are talking to young men and young men are listening. And what you do is you need a lot of good people , mentors, positive peoples to ring that in. But I think you need to be present for your children, and I've made that a purpose in my life. Because it's a very easy thing to say. I love you, it's harder to show it. So I am so happy to talk to you about today . It's quite weird how our paths have been so similar for a while. So I was at Models one as a booker on the men's desk from nineteen eighty six to ' ninety two The Golden Years, I think, it was just such a fun time in fashion But when did you start modelling ? I started twenty, nearly twenty five years ago since that would have been two thousand one, two thousand two. We got two thousand two really,. What I kind of enjoyed about the fashion stream about that there was a mystery kind of behind it . And I think that's been lost a little bit. Yeah . Well, that's the internet for you, isn't it? Well, I say now we choose to campaign and everyone already knows what it's going to look like before it's even out because we've had to do so much social and everything and yeah, like combine it all and then it's all out before the campaign. And you know, the days before when that was the biggest release and then you had to build up to that day and the big reveal doesn't really exist anymore because it's also dropped in sort of drops throughout months until that big reveal . Yeah, which I'm a little bit certain about . I do have to say I love I did love those days. I mean, can I also just say like well done? I mean twenty six years that is , that is incredible. I mean , it's long yeah, now you look back at it twenty when you say twenty six years is a long time. Yeah, it's a long time. It's amazing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah . I was just wondering, would it be alright if you just subscribed ? Thanks. There's a couple of things I want to kick off with. Firstly , this normally, I think, is the height of rudeness. And I bet you were looking at it and I saw you give your phone to someone and I thought, I wonder if he's checked my phone and gone a bit rude. No, I did a phone here actually. But I've got it here for a reason. Right . And that reason is because I may have called somebody and said, I'm interviewing somebody today . Do you want to say anything? Now we both know this person. Right . And I haven't listened to this message because you were just walking into the room when I received it . So I'm really sorry if there's any effing and jeffing in here. I'm intrigued now. Yeah, so am I . But here we go. Are you ready? Go . Hey David Gandhi. How's it going ? What can I say about David Gandhi that I love him? Oh good. He's loyal . He's professional and but above all he's just such a nice guy . I mean what you see is what you get and he is nice, nice guy. Not like some of them toe rugs out there joking . But at the end of this stage , all that counts is that he has been so loyal to select over the years and he has been so nice to my staff, all the clients that works. Well , everything he does , he tries his hardest at doing it and I love him. Even if he wasn't atlect Se, I still love him. Because that's why. Bye, David . Oh, blessed Tandy. Andy Anderson, you know, that just for anybody that doesn't know that's your agent. She's been at Select Forever. When I was working there in the late eighties , Harry and her sister started select and I can't believe they are still going strong, still at the top of Yeah, they are to ld the model agency legally. I'm now hiding this out of no, let me turn off the sound fast because my son's gonna call about Tandy we're going to talk about a bit more later about we'll talk about mentors the importance of males and young men having mentors. She wasn't wasn't anyone in the industry that I could almost trust and have a mentor. She was mine. So how come Tandy was a mentor ? There was no one really in the industry where I wanted to be and this was and you would understand what others about almost the divide between where the girls could get to what they were being paid and where they got where the guys were . And I sort of looked at them and said, Well, but why, why can't we have the exclusive contracts? Why , why are the girls so out of the industry known and we're not all super moderno I. always joke that you don't even need to say surnames. You can say Kate and Cindy and Chris . Yeah, yeah. They need to know who they are. That's phenomenal. So I went to Tandy at one point and just and she said, You're doing well kid always called me kid. You doing well kid and I was not really what I want to do, Tand. And I was always pushing and I think she kind of loved it pushing to do more. And she said, What do you want to do? And I said to her, I gave an example you remember like the Levi's commercials the guys in the Levi's commercials. Nick. Yet Nick and Paul did it. Yeah. I was just like that, that iconic commercial and she said to me, she went, okay, if you're serious about this, I probably think you're slightly mad because you're owning well but you're doing I was doing catalog and commercial work. Nothing I really wanted to do . But they were big money payers . Catalog and commercial were the kind of thing that lots of other guys that were doing all the editor ial because people probably don't know, but all the editorial for the fashion magazines, like the really good ones, vogue were the ones that paid the least because it was the QD. Nothing like fifty quid or something like a nalomin fee could be like a pound and you'd be on the cover. Yes. Absolutely matter. But then often the guys that we had that were doing those kind of jobs would literally cut off their right arm for some commercial and some catalogue, but you were doing sort of too much of it. I wasn't doing too much of it. It was for the side of my I just wanted to be, I suppose if I was in this industry and I could see the potential of where someone could be. Yes , someone who branded right, someone who created a brand and yeah could see it and Tandy could see it as well and this is the interesting thing is like everyone used to say to me you're oh good you're somani you have to go for the Mani or you're so Ralph Lorenzo people okay yeah that makes sense. Would love to do anything Antania you doction Gibana and she said it for just putting it out there into the in my mining, her mining into the doctor Gubana, you get Dolccia. Your doctor Guana. But you know what we'd call that now? Well , manifesting. Manifesting is right . You put it out into the universe and you make it happen. I don't know what happened. Yeah. So she was the one that believed in me, but we had to. She said, You've got to give up, like, give up everything. We can't have you as a commercial model anymore . If this is where you want to do it, we'll do it. And you've got to give up all that commercial work and you've got to be seen as completely different. So we've got to shoot an editorial, we've got to get you on a cover, we've got to do this. And there's no Lawrence Thomas, her husband now, he shot me. So when people talk about the shots that changed where I was in the industry, it was actually and people is dolce , but people talk about the first set of shots that really changed everything, it was those shots of Florence like Towni's husband and then progressing to that we then got the Dolphin Gabana campaign, which led to the Light Blue campaign which was that iconic campaign where it was the white speedos, yeah I was making a joke before you arrived. I was like, I know David's body better than his wife because I've seen so much of it. apologise about that too . But like Times Square , you know, what fifty foot like it was never saw it before. It was enormous. Yeah, it was I mean how fantastic . I mean the poster everybody knows it was a mark in there, please. Yeah. A lot of catches. I wasn't talking about that though, David. I was meaning the scale of the advert, thank you . But that you know, what I really like about what I've just heard is that you are somebody who didn't I think the natural thing would be to just go with the flow with modelling. Like you'd think oh well I'm just quite lucky to be here. But you wanted to take control of your career. Once you always said I didn't want the industry or anyone in control of me, including brands, I wanted to be in control of it . I think you have to be. How would that manifest itself? Like if you weren't happy on a shoot, what would happen ? I don't think you do anything drastic on a shoot if you weren't happy. So I mean there's a difference. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's not like I haven't politely walked off a shoot if things that were things were agreed were not agreed and vice versa, you know, I tell the story once of we shot I shot a campaign with Scartlet Ohanson for Dauging Commander, who was a makeup, I was very much just like in the background bedtime or with Scarlet. And then we shot then I flown out to LA and we were shooting at an alcoholic brand shot and Scarlet was there as well. So of course in the morning, Dave, I didn't know you were on the shoot. It's so funny. If you've seen the shots and we were talking about Dolce and everything went a bit quiet and they went , can you just you go downstairs for a while and I was left there for an hour and no one to talking you. Oh no, I don't say anything. So you know, in the fashion industry, when that happens, no one's got the balls to speak to you. So you were kind of left. And I was kind of waiting out, okay, I'll get a call from Hindi at the moment my agent and she called me and she went, yeah, the dropped to you out . What of the shit that you were on? We were wrong of it. Just out of interest and she went, They don't like it that you and Scarlet have shot before for Dauling Gone on the maid, but you can't do this together. Nothing, not same products, not same companies, not the same anything . And so and this is where I kind of young guys, if I'm mentoring, they asked me, and I said, You could take that situation and be not devastated , but really angry. You could have a go everyone and I went, Heidi. Right. What's the legal term? She went, paid fully. You're there. They didn't they should have. I was fine. I went, if you need me, I will be in Carmel, rented a car, went to Carmel. Now I had a two day holiday which I never took out in Carmel, rented a car, got paid fully, came home. And I thought, great. And then I went to work for I thought, this is not diluting me to work for another alcohol brand. Find me another alcohol brand, went to go and do Johnny Walker Blue Label . I looked at all as a positive. So you can't look at that as a negative and say poor me I got I looked at all as great . Okay. Someone's paying me not to work and I can go off and then progress to with another brand. So that was all win win, but that was the attitude and that's probably the attitude that Tandy instilled in me as well. And yeah, there was no feeling sorry for yourself or you're not getting anything. She was like, go and make something happen, get out to New York. That was a was her thing. Like Town, you're not really worried. Get out to New York and go and do some appointments. That's what we would do. She also had a person in me, I think that would push her and push her , you know, my agents as much as they would push me as well. I wasn't remember having any models like that. I wasn't someone sitting there on their playstation or in the home, not going out every evening and then coming back and going and waiting for a phone call. I was like, Tell me, what can we do to make to help this to improve it ? And that's why I did it. I tell people now I didn't take holidays for until I sort of met Stephan from like ten years ago and she was like where do you holiday? I went, I don't. I take a few extra days here and there for like if I'm on a trip. Well, that's gonna change. Yes. And it did, and that was that was a nice idea. But my whole life was work and building what we 're finally the platform that we had with Light Blue, I thought finally, after six years, we've got a platform to build. And I said, Didn't sit in my laurels of with doll change. Think, okay, that's great because to me, that contract could have been a year, could have been three years could have been two years it is. It's three year a contract with two years rolling and they'll tell you if they want to use you again . If someone had told me it was going to be eighteen years, I might have relaxed a bit. But at the same time, we're going to do it. But it's only eighteen years because you didn't. Because it didn't. And that was why, well, okay Doltier Martin is me. So we keep on pushing with other brands. I'm loyal to them . So yeah. And I quickly just want to talk to you about new work with Mark's and Spencer's with Yaeger. because I showed you a picture of my dad earlier , who's on the top shelf . And when you when I heard that you were doing this partnership with Yaja, I wanted to bring you a picture of my dad from the mid sixties before I was born when he was modelling Four Jaeagger. You're kidding. That's amazing. How great is that? I just still love the outfit. I've never wearing a Veck jumping a in roll neck before, but rocky . I'm gonna call my mom and go guess what? Got the Yaga look tomorrow. This is amazing, dude. Isn't it lovely? And we're in Yoga now. Ah, look. See, that's yeah. And it really was When was this sixty? It must have been early early sixties. I was born in ' sixty seven and it was before that. Yeah . So and that's why I actually love when MNS approached me about Yaga is that history to the brand. Yeah, that longevity to of that British the Britishness terminus quality and equality. I mean it's always seen as which was kind of the problem we had When we were working with MNS because my brand , David Gandy Woodchraft was always sort of the higher end, the luxury brand. That's where we wanted to keep it . And when I first went to MNS, I remember in Clecione, which was a lovely Batalian sub brand of MNS and it was beautiful blazers from Pulier and Italy. I've still got them. That's what the quality was. And I think then MNS were trying to you then had lots of people going on like Cosm and Primark and all these different companies and the quality was going down. So where I was wearing this bike got to the end and I was ambassador of tailoring and then they tried to sort of give me a ninety quid suit probably just a suit and I was like guys this is not where we MNS were a very different place. So over those five years I haven't been at MNS looking at what was happening and Stewart Manchin coming in and a mitch for menswear and they showed me Yeager and Stuart, what do you think? I was like, It's good. It's really good. I like this. Yeah. Yeah. So that's where and of course then part of that deal was I said, look, we had this very successful David Gandhi autographed brand. I've got David Gandhi wellwe. It's what we were doing before. It's better . Yes, do we said, right? Well, you come in for Yaga, you come full circle and bring wellware into MNS and we launched last launch Thursday and it's gone thank you . Gangbusters. Very, very well. So far, very happy to thank the MNS customer for because you never know, John. This is one of those. An MNS customer. Like MNS is part of our DNA. This is not an advert, by the way. I'm not being paid by MNS. I just want to let you know, but I am just gonna quickly mention that they are part of this nation's DNA . Like it can't ever shut down like MNS got to last forever. Yeah . And but what's interesting is you going away and then coming, I didn't it's not that I didn't miss you, but I'm not a man so I don't naturally go to men's clothing. I didn't realise you'd gone. So you coming back just feels right. Yeah, we didn't make it. So nice. That was part of it was something when I were leaving a brand or saying making statements or bitter about leaving brands or anything. You don't do that. No, you know people the same adult agent said, Well, you must be sad about leaving the brand. I said, Sal, I've had eighteen years of Dolchin Gabana. I thought maybe three. All I can ever say is thank you to that brand and MS was the same, but I always knew in my head that there was something sort of unfinished left with MS. And the first time I did. And from the first time I was talking to Bran said one day this has got to be back in this has got to be back in MNS . And but again, I don't often like to go when I feel is backwards. Yeah. Always . So there was so yeah, so there was a reservation of when I was outside the boxes in Paddington. I must have I stalled for a second this went what am I doing here? And I walked in and I have to say the first lady that I knew from her she came in and she said welcome back Mr. Candy . And literally I said and I said to her, you don't know how I needed that for like to hear that. And I went up and I saw, you know , so many people I knew and well, it's coming home. Yeah, you kind of wanted it felt. I was like, okay, yeah, it is home. Which is lovely which is which is which is good and it's proved so far so good. You know, I'm getting a kind of taste of you and your work ethic and your style and how important that is to you and how this isn't a criticism. It's a compliment that you are uncompromising and you know, not to a fault, but your boundary to what I want to do, this is what I don't want to do. That's quite a strong position to have. Where does that come from? Like tell me a bit about your parents because I know that your dad was stubbornness. Well was it ? Is my dad? Yeah. Is it tell me ? Tell me about your parents. What was it like growing up? It was a very normal upbringing to them, and normal when I was brought up in Billirook in Essex . We went to Billerook Comprehensive and yeah, we 're normal things that every normal family do. And my dad who came out, he grew up in a very impoverished background , built businesses. My mom built businesses with him . So that's I think from a perspective of a child subconsciously , you're seeing how hard it is. My mum dad didn't go to work at eight o'clock and come back at sort of five o'clock now, six o'clock in the afternoon is they were working until eleven, twelve. My dad was dealing with America a lot. So we all sat down as dinners by said before for probably ten years dad was sat down at dinner. I'd have to get up twice to answer the phone back in the days before mobiles and everything else. And building businesses and mum was the same, but it was still around home. So first of all, they were at home and then they built their offices . I love the story about you answering the phone. Sometimes feel dad like it has to be rent out. My dad wrote any messages and I'd be like, yeah, it took a person. I said, Dad. And then I took over because he needed someone. It was all to do with like property and travel in America. So lots of property and brochures. Again, this is all before websites and everything else you used to print the brochure out of the villa and you used to post it off . And then after a while because I was doing graphics and IT at school, I would do all the layouts for him and then I would do all the printouts for him and he would pay me to do all the printouts and logos and brochures and work all the IT out for him . And so I was kind of part of it. But yeah, so so I I just I saw that work ethic and it's my dad obviously was a kind of lump protege entrepreneur, never had a boss . My cousin doesn't, my sister and her husband don't, I don't that interesting. Yeah, so we just grew up in that environment. Yeah. The idea of actually going to work in an office was just not No, yeah, it's not going to happen. You control everything yourself, which probably might sound more romantic than it actually is, but the pressures of doing it so starting your own , I mean even when I did Wilware , I was very reluctant because there's a difference to starting a brand with M MNSS and having theN power behind you. Yes. You're doing it by yourself and having investments and things are starting and it has been the toughest thing. It really, really has. My dad used to work over in Kent when we were grew up in Essex, so my mom whereby ? Well, he was he was swandally. Okay. I'm just over. I'm at Tumbrich Elska. He always used to make the joke of he watched about how many years he worked at the company. He'd be like in the queues for the Dartford Tunnel which were terrible. Yeah. And he watched a Dart for bridge being made on a day he literally drove over it, he quit the job and started his own company . Yeah, I mean, so they used to dad used to drive from the mum used to drive us with the dog in up to London. They used to live in barking. So we did that every Friday. And I always use a joke on the way home, my sister went my dad and I went my mom and they would slightly race home and my mum would have her mixed tapes of soul and yacht rock in the night. That's why stealed that's my rock. Yacht Rock. What's that? Hall of Notes? Stop it. What yacht rock is? What's my favorite? Playlist immediately. Michael McDonald's. Yeah. Yacht Rock. Yeah. Yach Rock radio. Who knew? What? There's not a rocky rock rock. I think there is now, if you're on like one of the digital internet ones, yeah, there is just fab. I want them. Absolutely fab. That's my favorite people's. Yeah. Debbers? I mean my name is Stephan, my bar just looks at me like I'm so what is this? How is she younger than you? Yeah, six years younger. My husband's six years younger than me . Yeah . We won, right? Amazing I'd like to talk to you about meeting Stephan and what she's what she's done for you because what was your I don't I don't need to go into love life or anything but you know did you have lots of different girlfriends? Did you have a couple of big serious girlfriends? Or was stuff like the one almost immediately? No, I won't go into it. I very much say that my world was work and right the brand and what I wanted to build. Yeah. It was quite I wasn't a horrible boy. I wasn't selfish. When I've been in relationships, I'm always quite giving, but with that is that I would probably adapt my life around that person and you couldn't actually do that. Yeah, it had to be solidly. This is what I'm doing. This is why I'm going on ninety flights a year. I'm not a fight ninety flights a year. Don't go on holiday, you know, it was that was at the Christmas I was so exhausted that, you know, even my own family made my parents would go to Spain and see my sister and I'd be like, I can't travel anymore. I would just be in the house my own, a couple of Christmases. But it wasn't, you know, it was actually quite lovely. Like, I'll have the dog, we'll go for walks. And there was no one around. You know, it's like modeling it. When you're in an industry as well was yes you're alone a lot of the time but you're virtually going to a different job with different people and entertaining every one of those ninety flights is some different and you're exhausted by the end of it. And also, I would imagine on a flight everybody wants to talk to you because by that point you're famous, right? I mean, sometimes failures. What are you smiling about? No, I was just over what are you thinking? No, it was always the because I was flying so much, I got to know so many of the because I'd be on the same flight as the cabin crew. And they were like, Are you on again? You're flying more than us . And they were to get to know me and they'd even know what I'd glow that they were like, Shabby. I was like, so much or we're out of Shabbly. Stop drinking Shabbly. And I was like, I'm sorry Yeah, and always love from I was laughing there by people recognising because I was once behind Brad Pitt and it was making me laugh because Brad Pitt was watching his own film and I was watching the film like together but Brad Pitt was in front of me on the flight wait wait wita,it wa,,, Rip was watching a Brad Pitt movie. He was watching Brad Pitt, maybe never seen it, which made me kind of laugh. I didn't speak to him. Can I just say something though? I quite love him for that. No, absolutely. That was good at all. No, I wouldn't love Brad Pe.pper I mean I would have I would have liked to say the Bad Pelman on the flight. Brad? Yeah . Shabby ? You film what do you do together . Oh, would and yeah. It be what I reckoning that would be get off the blade. Like David Gandy and Brad Pitt together. I was thinking though, it was the difference , I had gold cards. I was travelling so much. I go'ldd cards on Virgin and BA and everything. It'd like he was just mad. What was that film? Not with George Cloon. Yes. Yes. That was basically my life. Literally yeah, you were kind of able to totally hustle every element and you would look and you'd go, Avis preferred. Not getting on that cue. I bet that's the one there. It was perfect. I love travelling diamond. I absolutely adore it. And that still seems the normal to me. I mean, after we've had children, it did change and it perfectly changed so I could be around. But if I'm on a flight again and I'm back and that's where I feel like myself again. I'm not okay back to the normal . Do you know what anisim is? Be honest. It does the same job as a physical sim , but it's built into your phone digitally. And Saley, who sponsors begin again, is an ESIM app that I love because it gives you a safe, secure internet data connection overseas without having to pay expensive roaming fees. It's available in over two hundred destinations and it comes with built in cyber security. But the best part is that it lets you change your online location to home while you're away. If you've been watching a show, for example, then you go on holiday and suddenly you can't access it anymore, well with Sally, you can give it a try, download S inale they app store or by scanning the QR code that's on your screen right now. And for a cheeky fifteen percent off your first purchase you can use the code Devina at checkout. That's Divina for fifty percent off . 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Requires Google account, Google Health App, Internet, and Google Health Premium subscription features subject to change, availability and results vary, not intended for medical purposes, works independently of Gemini apps, check responses for accuracy . Do you hear that? Sounds like breakfast is ready because Quakers coming in hot with morning nutrition . one hundred percent whole grain oats and a good source of fiber to fuel the rhythm of your morning and kick start your day . And that sounds absolutely delicious . Fuel to start whatever's next. Quaker, official sponsor of FIFA World Cup twenty six. Hi let's go . Could just maybe have a look , try it out. Go to Shopify. co. uk if you want to, you can sign up for one pound per month trial and you could actually start selling right away Learning a little bit about you , I was kind of interested to hear that you were shy really as a kid like you weren't just to them. Are you ? So you would consider yourself an introvert ? If yeah, I mean what was the there's I was reading something the other day that you know there's no such thing introvert extrovert all those different things anymore and there was one in between there's a middle ground there's an gry you can go to a party and you can be the life of the party and have to be that life party , but then you have to have two days by yourself. Yeah . So you when you need to be, you can be, but actually yeah. When you were a kid? Or were you just shy ? No, I was shy. So you've learnt. I hate you having my photo taken. That sounds the weirdest thing in the world. What still? If someone comes up to me and says, Can we have a photo? Can we do a photo ? And I'm still like literally like that. Oh my gosh. It's the weirdest thing. You've been in the interview for twenty five years. That's different. When you're on a set, that's the butt having your photo taken as a barely having anything any phot os of me around the house or anything. Like it's it's quite you find it hard to look at photos of yourself. I criticize them a lot. Do you? I just absolutely got to have to rip them to pieces because I'm already also especially when I'm on the creative side of it now . So I'm taking a shot over here with the team and the crew, but I've come up with a crew somewhere and checking it to go nope, that's not right. Let's move, let's do this. Well, that's great. So I'm just having to pick. So I don't see it, I think the same way I know a good picture. I don't even see me . I just see the whole thing. I said, yep, the clothes look amazing, the lights look amazing, that background yeah incredibly that as a whole I still believe in incredible creative and shots and so that's different and but yeah so I yeah I just criticize what I see somewhere. I'm trying to improve it. You know, that I mean after twenty five years , I would recognise on set that I would know where a shot should be, but you can't ever tell a photographer. You go, just by the way, I think I know where this should be. I'm never going to do that . So what I used to do . But what I used to do, if there was a problem, we can't get this shot. This is a problem. I'd be like, it' overs there. So why would we just go on to sit over here? So why would you go and sit in the position like that? And then they see the light and they go, Oh my god. I'm a genius. This is amazing. That's too short here. That doesn't matter. So that's why you're trying to like here, Scott. Because I'm quite interested in you as a kid because as a parent , you are in a wonderful time of parenting now. Your girls are four and seven. Yeah. And my youngest has just turned nineteen . And I keep thinking if I could go back and do it all again , I would tomorrow because I would be so much more relaxed And what I'm hearing now, if there's anybody watching with young kids, you know, you were shy , but look at you now. Like don't stress about it because it would make it worse. I was talking to two good friends of Matilda their twins. One of them is a great friend. I was talking to the dad the other day and he were saying that how the twins, the girls were completely different. One loves her own space, will do her homework. The other one can't get to the homework needs to be around people. And that is a bit like also it's a bit like me and Stef Steph gets energy from people from parties from and it takes it saps my energy . So I need to I'll just go off on my own. This was a very hard thing to explain to Stuff when we first started dating too like me and my husband. I totally get that. Yeah. I also heard that you go to the cinema on your own. When you're traveling so much, you don't often have people to go and do something with or you've been around so many people I just got to want to go to the cinema on myself. You don't speak to anyone in the cinema. That was always my logical explanation. You don't sit there and talk. I tell you what it is quite scary if you ever go to cinema and no one else is in there. No one else turns up for the movie. Once I did that entirely movie like a really big cinema and I was sort of looking around going . Okay now, it's turned into a bit creepy it's that was a bit scary. But now I would just , you know, be on my on the on my own yet it wasn't it doesn't bother me has never bothered me when I was a kid. I mean, I used to venture as well. Like I think I think my mom Bethwara was a runner or something at points there was I used to go off and I needed stuff done. I needed things needed . And you'd go off on your own and I would go off and the freedom they realized that I needed that. I think that's when I got to very much follow the trend and went to university and felt entrapped. I mean, I was felt entrapped at school, but you knew I'd be like,, well how many hours we go? We're ten hours a week, but we're here a week. I would just take the car, I'd be driving to go and see other people, go and do whatever I needed to do. It felt very restrictive to me . Okay guys , I need you in my beginning again gang. Listen , it's the most funnest, most awesome club in the whole world and I want you to be part of it. So when you sign up to our newsletter , you get all the bits that I don't share anywhere else things that I'm loving, what I'm reading, my favourite outfits , some of the most gorgeous begin against stor ies that you've sent in. I actually really love reading those. It's one of my favorite parts of the week. And the really fun bit is I will also share some begin again secrets like what guests we've got coming up and you'll know anyone else does don't tell everyone. So come and join the best gang ever the links right below and it just takes five seconds and it's free . And the other really big thing I think I'd like to talk to you about is the fact that you were a bit sporty, but you weren't jock, you know, you weren't the kind of team Captain , but you know, but you were a bit overweight when you were a kid and then you grew . So again for parents , don't stress about it. Help them eat healthily, get them active.. Yeah What were your parents ever worried about that? Did they try and talk to you about it or did they just let you know? No because it's nothing I wasn't sitting around on video games and I was, I mean, I never sit still. I drive stuff around the bend . Last week, you know, she would wake up and go, she had nine, ten hours of sleep. And I'm there like in the morning waking up and she goes into rooms for it. If you built tabs and you bit I'm like, yeah, I's could goodn to sleep when I was born. I started at midnight, I finished at half past four and I built the bed. How many hours do you sleep a night? I mean I can like probably six but I can live and f.all I didn't even think about it. But again, traveling in the syndicate for twenty five years , you're you know, you live on a nap, you live on a couple of hours on a plane. There's no these days going. Oh my aura ring only told me I've had six hours of bad sleep. I'm like so that's my and I'm playing in old school. I'm like, get on with it. But it's one of these things when people I won't be up early in the morning. I'm not a morning person. So when people say to me and I often look and they say, Why I got up at four o'clock at five o'clock in the night and I go what are you doing? And I know it might be training or something else. But my idea is that because we're still working with the American market and sometimes we are still having to deal with LA time and be on the phone at eleven o'clock is near the equivalent of the afternoon. So that's what's awesome. That's quite hard work, isn't it? But when everyone's in bed and was , that's when I get so much done. Michael, my partner, often gets people asking him about me . And they go , yeah, but she's addicted to exercise, isn't she 's addicted to it. And he's like, And the thing that's wrong with that yeah. And I just wondered what people's perception of yours, 'cause I think it's quite interesting about modelling that modelling went from when I started , it was all about the body , the David Donald, you know, you had to be a forty regular but buff as anything like absolutely rock solid everywhere . And then it suddenly changed and everybody needed to be skinny men. That's why I came into it. Yeah, so tell me tell me what that was like for you because it's quite you know women we all go they asked you to lose weight but actually male models get that too . Yeah, I mean I didn't but I mean there was a I wasn't fitting anything not not what I would call a big size. I was a forty or a forty regular and but yeah, it was a stage of going to castings and I wouldn't be able to get the trousers past my thighs I. was just like all the big guys coming in and I wasn't big, especially that stage I got bigger and there was kind of sight to me that went and I needed I knew what I wanted to be and what made me feel good myself and confidence. And that to me was being fit and being healthy and training and learning. I couldn't play sports anymore because we were travelling. I was travelling so much and so it was the gym . And so I actually would say that when Dolce came up with this creative, they wanted this bigger, more classic looking Mediterranean more muscular guy, that the actual pond of fish from at that point wasn't big because everyone had followed the train and gone skinnier and I had gone the other way. When did you start training Training . I mean, I always did some at school because I was playing I was playing a lot of sports and you did do a lot of sports then? Oh yeah, I played everything I could be outside the classroom. Yeah, absolutely everything. Football, rugby, anything, athletics . I did it all, as I said, to get out to get out of the class room, which actually what more men need if I'm what more boys need is more and more sport, more and more competitive sport, get them out of the classroom and get them men are still the same way. So the same thing with I've got two girls . I can see boys, I see men as you know exhaust and feed them. They're happy in many ways. I make sure they're appreciative and we're appreciative of them and they're we're fairly simple creatures sometimes. But my goals are the same. We're biking. We're in the, you know, we're in Richmond Park, we're hunting for toads, we're climbing, we're we're currently, you know, just learn all that to cycle so we're on the bikes and that's kind of my idea of I'm so against you know kids just sitting around on don't get me wrong on laptops and yes to mine films but, just trying to get them off of screen. So I'm constantly when my kids choose it. They're like, Daddy, where are you going? And they can be indoors and they say, look, have an hour just chill and either on a pad or watching a film. And they're like, where are you going? I'm like going outside to do some garden there. I can weak them and they get their gardening gloves on and come and help me destroy the garden and they think that's more fun. What you've done really because your parents really loved you , but they weren't massively present. They were working. They were working all hours of the day and night. But what you are, it sounds like , is very present. You've changed. Well, I think we have to be, I think we are the first, I say, we are the first generation of dads to have to be more present in every way, whether that's schooling, whether it's cooking, whether it's shopping, whether it's those the roles not changed. They've just evolved a little bit . And why is that so important ? I mean , I don't know whether it is important or whether it's not, everyone's different. I'm not saying that's a good thing. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm not saying it works for some couples. It doesn't work for others . It's just completely whatever works for you. Adapt it. But don't try and I think people are aware of if husband doesn't do that. He's a bad person . That's what works in that relationship and vice versa but everyone is trying to pinch your hold of people on how something should be. But I think being present for your children and I've made that a purpose in my life for the first sort of six, seven years for me to be around and be involved and not to have to leave it to Stephanie Steph's working. She's the barrister as well. So we do have to juggle with those roles and be a proper partnership to our children. If Luke Sine, I don't think Stef have got a balance right between , you know we, haven't had that much time because we don't have you and Steph together. Steph together. Can I say something? As an elder stateswoman, I'm ahead of you and our children are youngest of our five blended kids is nineteen . We've now got time . And that starts a bit early, you know, it starts when you can go out for a night or maybe away for a night and that all the kids look after it. Again, it's beautiful. It's Mega. But it's under different people . It's coming circumstances. It's some people have parents nearby and they're going to say we've never had that yet. The closest are two hours away. Other parents are five hours away. Yeah. So it's hard and we've never had that luxury. So that's something we've had we have decided to sacrifice for our children. And to put on the demand, we love experiencing everything with our childrenout. And that's something my mum and dad talked to me is like travel wise we had a very normal brother. We didn't when it came to travel because my dad thinks it's David Attenbrother II . So literally would and we were just being these incredible holidays we just didn't really appreciate our but we're in the Amazon rainforest catching catching piranha. We're in Brooks Falls with the brown bears clapping our hands so they know you are here we're in every part of Africa desert elephants tre,kking gorilla in trekking gorilla, borneo, we've been with the orangutans . We've been everywhere around the world. So my dad in some way my mum and dad because they in some ways with education guiding us into probably careers or universities. If they never did it, they couldn't do it. But that was just like I knew how much we could be taught through travel , through different cultures, seeing how beautiful. What was that for you? You don't realize it at the time. Yeah , at all. But I did once meet David Attemborough and we were excited at an event. I went to support for him. He lives in Richmond. He says, Richmond is one of his have all the places being Richmond, one of his favorite places in the world. I met him and probably I think I was moving to Richmond, I said, We're moving to Richmond. And then I started to talk about , 'cause you know, his famous trip with the gorillas being around gorillas. I said, I came back like a few years ago and I tracked for gorillas like Oprahan and we were talking about that. Like no one in the room could. And I called Dad and just said yeah yeah, I was like but never, you know sort of mentioned it. But I also said to him once when I was about seventeen eighteen and I had a very crappy ten year old Ford Fiesta. And I said to my dad once I said Dad Whoo. We're off going to Alaska, I think and I said could I instead they're very expensive, but I could probably do a new car . So could I not have the money towards the holiday with a new car? My dad, I don't think you can probably look to me from his desk and he just went, well, you don't have to come on holiday, David, but you're not getting your money for a new car. So I just did you decide are you staying here for some or you come with us? I went, Think I might come with you with a good decision. Get out of my office . And it was but again, listen, that's mental. That's yes. That day, they don't need flash car. That's not as much about it. What you're going to learn from is, you know, watching glacier and going kayaking by a glacier in Alaska. And you'll learn, yeah, you look back but you look upon that noun and go yeah you're right and that's having someone a mentor in your life or having someone to guide you not a mentor but a guidance in that part of your life. I mean I'd like to talk to you about your work around men and masculinity and how important that is to you and how lost a whole generation of young men are because I think and I'm so excited to hear you talk about it as a man because women have had this great opportunity to start working and have a great career and we bear the children , but we are in a partnership and and men are just trying to find their way into how do I fit in , you know, to the family if I'm not fully the provider anymore and how does it work? And it is difficult for men to find their feet. Can you just talk to me a bit about how it was that you realized that? And I quickly want to just discussed about the kind of the generation of your father and mother. They were not the generation to be effusive with I love you'. And I'm so proud of you, not like us. So you know, it's all gone well for us to go, but they never told us they were proud . They just didn't do it but they were , right? Like what was it that made you kind of look at men and think, actually, do you know what? We're struggling or young men are struggl ing to find their place. Well, first of all my parents never needed to tell me they loved me because they were there when I needed them, they were present when I needed them to be present. No, I mean, from Lost Boys campaign, which is what I'm working on with the Center for Social Justice, the CSJ . Please could you just tell everyone about that because this is important, really important. Well, this was I've been talking about male suicide for a long time . Really open up about any dark periods I have had about how I've got over them, I think hopefully talking to experts how you can . There isn't any one sort of problem solving behind it or any solutions to it. But I always feel like it's nice to feel that other people are going through it or what they've this episode is brought to you by State Farm. You know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips? That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over nineteen thousand local agents , they help you find the coverage that fits your needs, so you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go online at statefarm dot com like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy moca frappy china drink or a sweet vanilla, smooth caramel maybe, or white chocolate mocha, whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. 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And I think hopefully men are getting better , but it's a very easy thing to say men can talk because they simply don't and a lot of the time there's a lot of people that don't want to listen to them or listen to what they have to say. Anyway, if they do in this world, they'll probably criticise them because they'll say something that they don't like. And then that's the end of conversation. So I think it's a very difficult thing . So I've been saying for a while it's the biggest killer. It was the biggest killer of men under forty, it was the biggest biggest killer of men under forty five. It's now the biggest killer of men under fifty, so I believe. So it isn't getting better . It's getting worse. And so the CSJ approached me and said about this lost every talk about the lost generation of boys between sixteen and twenty four that have pretty much been demonized and told that they are a massive problem . Toxic masculinity has been brought into such a conversation now , which wasn't probably ten years ago Flitt wasingn't even heard of, but it's been brought around by social media psychos of this toxic masculinity Can I say one thing? Sometimes when I hear that phrase I think, what, would it feel like if somebody attached the word toxic to femininity ? And it's like poisoning the essence of you . Like it's I understand what people mean by it and it's a mindset certain people who are frightened and don't know what to do or where to go and it feels unh elpful, I think, that phrase in some way. It's very unhelpful. And we are we're talking about in the sense that when you're talking about so if you're talking maybe on a sports field, you're talking about the competitiveness of the competitiveness of a man on a sports field and they'll go he's so competitive. He's domining you know the dominance of this team, the dominance of that that character, the hard work , all those different things on a football field. Now that is male biological traits. That's a lot of them are . And what you're trying to say is you can't have them outside of maybe the football field, you're saying if there's elements of that it's toxic and that's rubbish and that's the difference of it. So you're all in one young men being told they're toxic and a lot of young women are being taught that they are toxic. This was part of the CSJ's report saying actually that a large percentage of six formers are being or schools are being told that men are toxic and they are a problem . It's clearly being said this on social media . I think that's what being said. And then you've got the statistic that's happening about sixty percent of young women are frightened of young men . And so when these stats started coming in and I was like, well this is and it was actually from schools. Schools approached the CSJ to say there is a problem here with our men . They're not confident they don,'t know what to do. They're falling behind in education . They're falling behind on all levels of communication . And I don't do that. And then you're seeing what I was then talking about and I did a lot of research on was a manosphere . And what Louis Frews has done the brilliant documentary on, but actually I had to do my research before going to the House of Parliament talking about what I was talking about, the Lost Boys I didn't really understand what that was. Obviously we know the names of Andrew Tate and so CSJ gave me a number of links, a number of people to look at and I did a bit of a deep dive into it and couldn't quite believe . Yeah , it's not like I couldn't quite believe it because I look at a lot of social media and think what a load of crap or what are people watching? So we've got to understand that it is part of social media and what they are speaking is immature immature insecurity and insecurities of what they are saying . But what came out of the Luther documentary, what came out of that is like, yeah, tomorrow, that if you're a regulator on social media and you can make money from saying it and people are following you, you're going to say it because they're making vast amounts of money from it. You're going to do it. You have to what you have to understand is you have to educate those guys who say so content is crap , but their how can you put it, their way that they are talking to young men you have to admire because they are talking to young men and young men are listening and no one else is . So why are young men to do it? What you do is you need a lot of, you know, good people, mentors, positive peoples to rein that in and sort of say, look, you have to realize that this is crap. Or you do a very simple thing what I'm all against is you take under sixty year olds off of social media altogether and you ban it. It's just say you're against it. No, I'm for it. Oh, you're for it. Absolutely not going to say. I've been for it for time against social media. Yes . Somebody described it the other day as you can see your kids changing . You can shut them in the house, you can shut the doors, keep them safe, but there's one door you can't open that one once they go into their bedroom , there's another door inside their bedroom and you can't get to that one. No because, they're in their bedroom. Everything you have tried to protect your children from outlands outside when you close that door, you are literally handing them that times one of that screen time. Okay, so David , let's just talk about what people can do . So women, men, people need to speak out and be mentors and be positive young men. What like give us talk? Well, the CSJ have suggested there's not enough role role models in men, men role models. There's a lot of young men growing up without a stable family, without a father in their life . I will argue against that slightly of it just relying on being men because my mentor as we've gone back to was Tandy Anson. So I think this is something that mums and dads and uncle and aunts and everyone can get involved in helping them . And you know, maybe you can harvest this, are we actually talking about anything positive about masculinity at the moment? There are so many positives of masculinity , so many . And I'm coming from this divinity. You'd probably think if you were listening to me that I've got two sons and I'm worried about it. I've got two daughters , but I'm worried the fact that the way my daught will be taught, like I think a lot of we're looking at social media, which hopefully they will never under my watch talk men and how to it's about treating people. It's about having respect for both of us about men and women. So I've never wanted to make this a they and them situation. It's all that's involved to talk about masculinity in a positive way like we do with women and guys and not have this yes, there are toxic men, not denying that whatsoever. There are also toxic women . But we're just focusing on this small demographic and people making money from it and they're very insecure little men that are trying to try to take the innocence which you are at a younger age and the insecurity of those men and manipulate them into many ways and you are so vulnerable at that stage that it takes someone good to go no hang on this is not the way you treat people. This is not the way you speak about women. This is not the way you speak about people . Become a gentleman, become there are certain traits that we need to instill into into young men again. What was becoming peculiar to me was situations like this or interviews, people wanting me to define masculinity. That's why I thought it was very strange. And everyone's the narrative was defined masculinity, what's masculinity? And I wasn't going to define that. I'm worried, I'm not sure if I really can define . There are traits of good people that would and that's the most important thing . But it's a very complicated subject and yet it's guidance. I think you said it earlier. You said about Tandy being your mental and we don't have it, that 's the difference We owe it. We do. To kids to be guides online and there aren't enough. You just said that, you're so right . More people have got to just go out with the kind of just advice and hip tips and hints and the thing is I think just stop demonizing beating down on young men and they won't look for that outlet. I think that is a massive like it's a problem. Stop telling them they are toxic and they are the problem and talk about the positives of it As I say, I have two young daughters. Now all our books are about what women have achieved in life and the brilliant women in the world and what can be and of course I want to teach my daughters that we also need to teach about what people have done, what men have done, what we've all achieved together, not making it an us and them and here's her but we live in a very polarized world. So that's what I'm trying to get across to people of timing. Yeah. Let's look at everybody. Well, that's what it means. It prays everybody. Absolutely. What I'd like to do is tell you a little bit of a funny story . So I was reading about how growing up sort of decided that you wanted to look nice and I really appreciate appreciate that in you. Am I right in saying it makes you feel good about yourself? Yes, it gives you confid ence. It gives you a little bit of a pep in your step. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely. And I got to the lift today to come to work and I have my back with me and I was just waiting for the lift and I looked down at my shoes and I was like fuck I had to go back into the flat and polish my shoes for you because you'd said that you enjoy polishing your sho es with your girls? No, I do. I don't think these are these that is so cute. Well, they just yeah, I have a little shiny. A friend bought me a shiny kit and once I was sitting down and I was polishing my shoes because I was taught you polish your shoes, you look after your s. It's not about going to that disposal. Self care. Yeah, you have china, you know, my granddad did and my dad did. Because I know this is gonna sound like a stupid catchphrase, but because you're worth it. Do you know what I mean? Like it's not for anybody else. No, it's not 'cause you want to press anybody else, it's for you. Yeah. There's a satisfaction about doing it and having family shoes. That's good. Yeah. David . I love you. Thank you . I do. Thank you. Very good. I really, really do. This was absolutely great. You are very inspiring and this is going to be amazing for a lot of people. You've helped a lot of people So thank you about you. Anyway, well thank you . Thank you, John. So just in case you missed this episode here , if you love this episode, I know you're gonna love that