Life After the Band

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Apply today and earn a welcome offer of one thousand five hundred dollars cash back after you spend fifty thousand dollars in qualifying purchases on your new card within the first six months of card membership. Terms apply. Learn more at go. Mix slash graphite. Mornings have a rhythm . You can hear it , feel it . And at Quaker, we fuel it with one hundred percent whole grain odons and a good source of fiber in every bowl, helping you turn that rhythm into your soundtrack for a great day The fuels to start whatever's next . Quaker, official sponsor of FIVA World Cup twenty six . Oh let's go I erve The Pussy Cat Dolls has always been a huge part of me. You've lived a big complicated life. How of you love? That got me a little bit. Sorry, that's okay . I experienced a lot of sexual abuse that really chipped away at my soul, but getting into dance really opened my eyes. There's a whole world out there that could possibly have me. When I got the call for the pussy cat dolls , I had to sort of choose you can either go on a Britney Spears tour or you do pussycat dolls. And when they gave me that Mohawk and biker boots, it was another level of what it meant to own my space. I just didn't want that dream to go drifting, but it came close. I look back and get how misguided these headlines were trying to pick women against women and collar strippers and all of it was telling me that I was replacable and worthless. Did you make money out of the pussy capitals? The levels in which I didn't see that amount of money is definitely present. Can you just talk me through how that happened? Now I'd grown from such a low and got to such a place where I'd overcome so much to then end up in a low again. When it all came to an end and my mental and physical health wasn't going to sustain what was being asked of me. I had to put my ego aside, the identity of being known , but I think it's important come back together and make this all happen again. Are you ready? We're back. I've got Goosebots again . Guys , Kimberly Wyatt is in the studio. Could you actually give her a round of applause? Because do you know what I love about you? I obviously sat next to you on the Gots Dance panel of judges and you are a grafter . You are somebody who will pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and do whatever it takes to keep moving forwards . And that's why I can't wait to talk to you today to hear about your life and how you got here and where you're going. Oh my goodness. It feels surreal just to be here with you to do this chat with , this just feels like it's epic, it's surreal, it's ethereal, like, oh yeah, the stars of a line is together for this moment right now. 'Cause it's funny, we did we knew each other really well back in the Got to Dance Days and it went on for years that show and we would spend quite an intense amount of time . And then I didn't see for ages, but it's like I've always loved you and I feel like you've always loved me like we had love yes . And what was interesting was I guess you know, when we were working together , we never really went deep, deep, so I didn't know about upbringing or where you came from . And it feels like it was really a very formative time of your life and it made you who you were massively. Yes. Can you just talk me through where did you grow up? So I grew up in a small little town in Missouri, Middle America called Warrensburg , very much a farm town. My dad delivered fuel to farmers and he was a fuel guide, delivering oil, driving trucks, was gone a lot. My mom worked for him. So we lived on a farm way out in the country in my sort of smaller years . And it was idyllic in so many ways because I loved trying to be just as tough as the boys and loved going mudding in trucks and doing all this sort of farm life that gosh in the UK, I don't even see these types of things going on. So to think back, like there's so much of it that's pretty brilliant of what I got to experience in those little farm years . But it was also the making and the breaking of me. Living in that wonderful little lovely area. Grandmother lived just around the corner. My grandmother was my everything. Grandma Jane . Grandmas are the best. The best man. She showed me a love and a selflessness that to this day that's what has made me the mom that I strive to be every day when I wake up. When you said the good and the bad , like I was just wondering, would it be alright if you just subscribed ? Thanks . You know, obviously I can see you had family all around you. It sounds idyllic , countryside, nature . But what was the bad? The bad was I had brilliant parents, I think who tried their best, but there was a lot of darkness in my very young years through my formative years, to my young teen years . You know, I experienced a lot of sexual abuse and that really chipped away at my confidence, at my soul , at my feeling of being safe . And that really was the making of me as a kid. I was very introverted. I didn't like what I saw in the mirror. I was constantly running away from social situations. I didn't have a lot of friends. And I think that those moments were really what defined why that made me who I was in that time . But the thing that turned everything around for me was getting into the dance studio. And I stepped into the dance studio because I loved the Olympics. I loved the figure skating and the gymnastics and what these people could do with their bodies and the stories they could tell through movement . And so I really wanted to try gymnastics, tried it, loved it. But my teachers were like, why don't you try jazz and tap and ballet and all these other styles ? So started trying them and I just fell in love immediately because it wasn't necessarily what I saw when I looked in the mirror, it was what I could do with my body and the turns and the discipline and the technique and the jettis and the jumps and all these things. I was like, wow, this is really cool. This makes me feel good about myself . And then I think the real turning point for me was entering a competition. It was junior mist dance of America. I very much felt like the underdog. We didn't have a lot of money. Even the idea of being able to take these classes was way off the table when the teachers had approached me, but they allowed me to assist classes, work the desk, clean the studio , do all sorts, go door to door knocking for donations so I could pay for costumes to do the competition team and sort of try and live this dream . And so I went into this competition as an underdog. I went in as just an opportunity and experience to learn from and I went through the comp and as they were announcing winners and second runner up and first runner up, I'm like, oh well this has been good. Like I'm so glad I got to see all this talent and I felt really inspired and then they announced to junior mist dance of Americ a was. And I'll never forget my mom was filming and she literally dropped her phone and I just started screaming with elation . And that was like that was a moment of like, wow, maybe I don't have to feel like a loser in life. Maybe there is something more for me. Maybe there is a destiny out there that I can be proud of, and that was the real turning point. How old were you? I would have had to be about ten, eleven years old at that point. He was so young isn't young. Yeah . And then I think from there, I mean that was to Freedom by Vanessa Williams. And from there takes me right back . And I think the next turning point for me was doing a song by Maria Carey called Looking In and my teacher played it for me before we started learning the choreography and it was talking about smiling through a thousand tears. And I'll never forget just sit in there and just bowling my eyes out because that was your life. It was my life and I do mind me going back to something because you talked about you went through sexual abuse. Yeah. And I don't want to go into deep detail about that, but you had experienced that in your childhood very early childhood . And so was that within the family or is that something you don't want to talk about? Yeah, it was with maybe not my immediate family , but extended family but very, very close to us. And living in the farmhouse, we were very cut off from the rest of the world. You were vulnerable. I was so vulnerable and I was just in the room down the hallway and, you know, I finally built the confidence to talk about it and I just wasn't believed. I was sort of so you as a child when it was happening you tried to talk about it. It did, yeah. And yeah, they didn't believe me . And that was a consistent thing because it wasn't the only time or the only person. This was a consistent thing that kind of kept happening through, you know, not immediate family, but ext ended family that felt like the people that I could trust. And as soon as I felt like I could trust them, you know, they're falling in love with me at eight years old and trying to kiss me and trying to do things. And I just didn't know how to take it. And even through my honesty, you know, I just don't know if my parents had the ability to want to have to deal with that or protect me in the way I felt like I needed somebody to. I think they're very hurt in their own selves in their own upbringing. I can now look back in hindsight and at least kind of come to terms with that because I think finding a level of acceptance and making it okay. And forgiveness is needed to rise above and not feel like a victim, which is such a huge turning point in anybody's life that's experienced anything . But then like , you know, hearing this song and feeling like I could go out there on that stage and not only make beautiful lines, but everything had a purpose behind it. And even though nobody knew it, I was living my truth out there through dance and that was so therapeutic for me. So where you weren't being listened to? Yes, you could then go and add a space for it. At least that's right. Boost bumps . I do too. that is what I see in you. It's like it all makes sense. Yeah , yeah . That's why you're so good . It's in you. Yeah. I don't know if you've heard of this before , but my husband was a breakdancer and he wants to start breakdancing again. He started stretching. Yeah . And he got the split machine and he's trying to do the box splits so he can do windmills and things like that again . But it's been an unbelievable unlocking of trauma . Yeah and emotion . Yeah , so much stuff has happened to him since he's been stretching . And I thought that was just his experience. But I met a gymnast the other day and I told her about that and she went, Oh yes, the hips, it's where you hold all your trauma and we all go through that and I was like I didn't even know this was a thing. Have you experienced that? Yeah, I always I it's a consistent I think um any time I move there, is trauma there. But I have a dance academy now . And because of those experiences and having a purpose to want to give back to the next generation and really make a difference. And I've worked a lot with a neuroscientist Susan Greenfield to understand the mind and emotions and imagination and what that can do through music and movement. And so when I'm working with kids that have been bullied or they're dealing with neurodiversity or just feeling not accepted , now I can sort of tell them this tough stuff you are delivered can be a gift because we only experience things to a certain extent for some. And so that's all you have as an artist to give to a routine or to music. Right. When that becomes a bigger well of experience and emotion to pull from , that can be looked at as a gift. You can find a way to find forgiveness for stuff so that you can use it as a tool for your own self expression, which is a gift . I often talk about this and you mentioned the word victim earlier, like I don't want to be a victim. Like I just want to move past or through and find a way of doing that . But if there is somebody out there who believes that they have no agency on their life, like stuff is just happening to them and they can't do anything about it . Can they change, do you think ? Yeah, I do think. I don't want to trivialise it because everybody's experiences are so different . But even the dark of my times and of being alone, I moved to LA and I had nobody . It were you and you did that. So I worked on cruise ships at seventeen, then moved nineteen years old. seventeen on cruise ships on your own without parents or yeah . I mean vulnerable again like I've yeah I've had more experience that happened it was just unbelievable and again people just didn't want to listen to me when I'm trying to like look for help . Do you could we just talk about this because how many years ago would that be now? Gosh, twenty five years ago. Yeah It was at a time where where literally women were under attack . It felt like twenty four century, you would be lucky to not have something bad happen to you. Did you feel like that like everybody you knew virtually was ? Even with my mom, you know, we would speak about it and she would sort of level with me and have an ounce empath ofy even though, she didn't have the tools to feel like she could protect me . And I think a lot of that came from her own abandonment and her own abuse and her own situation. So in some way she at least had a level of being able to understand what it was that I was going through, even if she didn't have the confidence to change it or protect . But you know, but it was it was everybody . I look at you and when you're talking to me, the word safe keeps coming into my head like there was no one to keep you safe , just you 're looking out for yourself , trying to talk. I mean literally how have you that got me a little bit? Sorry that's okay sorry, it's okay . Yeah, safety is so nice in a way. Because I've been dealing lots of looking back on my life and actually almost physically giving myself a hug . Are there any weird little things that you do for yourself to kind of self soothe in a way, you know, apart from dance, obviously? Yeah , I 've gone through lots of things that have helped me overcome or kind of dismantled what I was stuck in , whether it's been, you know, like crystals and rocks and essential oils and stuff kind of had that moment . But I do feel like med itating spiritual healing , reiki, lots of things, tools that kind of help me . But to this day, I think I feel I feel really grounded .ving H mya kids is just the most amazing thing and they make me feel safe. When I have their arms around me, there's just a safety and they shouldn't make me feel safe. I of course make them feel safe, but there's a safety knowing I can make a change. And I think that makes me feel safe. Being a mother they have mother to that. That's it to the one you did not that you know, I don't want to also I don't know your mother, but it's a different energy that you will protect at all costs. We will . Has it been a hard journey for you being a mother after what you experienced ? Try not to over , you know ? Yes. Every time they'd come to that age where I was a first experience, it was trauma . I couldn't help put them to bed and look at their little innocent face and think God I, would do anything to make sure you're safe and then to think that that didn't happen. Yeah. Yeah . Yeah, that was that's been tough. But they're through those youngest of ages. And I know we have completed that task and the journey continues , but that was the biggest probably reopening of the wound . Yeah . There's something quite healing about it too that that like recognizing yourself in someone young and being able to take care of them a gift. It's amazing. It's a re get a get another chance. Get another chance. How old are your kids now? Oh my gosh, eleven, eight, and six. Eleven. What What? I know it's crazy. There's Willow Maple and Sennah. And Sennah. Yeah. Wow.. Yeah Absolutely amazing. And I hear because you know, I've got two girls and a boy. I do. And I hear you had the two. Yes. And you were like, Okay, I'm done. I was done . But no. But no. No. Oh my god. So what was that like? Well, at the time I'd been working so hard wanting to get the pussycat dolls back together. So I'd been working for a couple years of just trying to have conversations and things . And we'd sort of just got it over the line . This is before COVID . And I had been feeling different. I hadn't been feeling myself. I'd been feeling really unwell, being pregnant was like way far out of my mind. There was no way that that was a possibility. So I was thinking the worst to the worst of what could be happening. And I remember being in the shower, my husband was like, Here I just got your pregnancy chest just so we can mark this off the table before we start going into everything else . So I took it. I was like , I'm not just pregnant. This baby's in there . I love the fact that Max knew. He knew. Like, I know my wife. I know her . It was quite the surprise, yes, and the timing was definitely not exactly ideal . Well, weren't you just about, you were kind of planning a tour? Planning a tour. God, and it was like a tour. The big tour, the world tour, everything was happening. Like it was, yeah, it was a lot to digest . I didn't want to let anybody down. I couldn't believe I'd worked all this time to try and get this over in line , finally had . So yeah, we were sitting down looking at it like, okay, well, if you have the baby at this point and you have to be on stage at this point, how are we going to make it happen ? So it was seven weeks after Cesarea and I was back on stage for that X factor performance. And I was lucky enough to have a brilliant doctor, Dr. Jane , and she just like helped me along the way. She just going, what are you doing With ShareMight Trip from Uber, you can send your live trip location to the ones who matter most, like Dan and Hannah who always wade up to make sure their daughter gets back to her college dorm room . Or Tiffany who's running late as usual, and her friends are tracking her trip to make sure she's actually on her way. She's right there. She's three minutes away. Or Sam who never goes anywhere without her roommate knowing exactly where she is. Some journeys are meant to be shared. Share your ride in real time with share my trip on Uber. One more way Uber is putting safety at every turn. Learn more on the Uber app . This episode is brought to you by Google Health. Stop chasing someone else's definition of health. What matters is what's healthy for you. Google Health offers a new kind of coach built with gemini for effortless tracking, sleep insights, and holistic coaching tailored to you. Visit googlestore. com to learn more and start a new relationship with your health. Requires Google account, Google Health, Adam, and Google Health Premium Scription features subject to change, availability and results vary, not intended for medical purposes, works independently of Gemini apps. Check responses for accuracy . Su Topia two has come home to Disney plus. Let's go . Get ready for a new case. We're gonna crack this case and prove we're victorious partners of all the time. New friends. You are Gary Desnake. And your last name, Gusnake. Dream team . The new habitats. Zutopia has a secret reptile population. You could watch the record breaking phenomenon at home. You're clearly working at Zutopia too. Now available on Disney plus rated PG. At first we were waiting out and then it was like the woman in her and I think the professional she was could see the woman and professional in me and it was like yes I got you, I got you. We're gonna get the baby. We're gonna make sure everything's fine. We're gonna stitch your ab trying to get those abs back together, calm your organs back into place. You'll be fine. I'll be on call if anything happens. And she was a godsend through that whole period. But yeah, I mean I want to go back because we're talking about putty cat dolls reuniting and I haven't even kind of got to the stage in your life where you haven't got there yet. Yeah . So first of all, I want to talk to you about when you left to go to dance school when you were like, what, fourteen ? Yeah . I mean, that in itself is so young, but was that a way out, a way to safety , away from home for you? For me because I would do these competitions and I start getting scholarships to go train at the Joffrey and Broadway down center and go to New York in the summers to train. And of course at the time it was just another experience, another opportunity. But as I went out there and trained my butt off, literally couldn't walk the next day, crawling into the studio, waiting for my body to catch up so we could get back to it, going to see a Broadway show . It was the experience that really opened my eyes to there's a whole world out there that could possibly have me , you know, dancing and singing and being a performer in their world . And it was music videos. I loved watching all the music videos with especially a missy Ell iott, Alia , Busta Rhymes, all these brilliant videos with these brilliant dancers. And back then there was in Living Color, which is where JL started. Yes, the dancer. Oh God, I loved in living colour. I loved living color. Oh, it wasn't that the white way Williams Williams brothers. Yeah. God, that was so good. Good. They used to do these two characters called Men on film. Yes. Oh my good. Yeah, it's snaps up twist in a kiss . You know it . Jim Carey Fire Marshall Bill. I mean, it was good. It's okay . God, I bet that would be on YouTube. It definitely was watching and you don't know what we're talking about. Inviting color on YouTube. It's really good. And they had the fly girls, the dancers and I was just like,, God I would love to be one of those girls. So I'd definitely go into New York and get open my eyes of like maybe there's something I could do with this. And how old were you when you were going to New York? Started at fourteen. So fourteen, on your own . I would go with my Miss Joe, who is the head of the Dance Academy. Okay, and it was her four daughters and son that would teach classes as well. So she would take her. She saw something in you. She did. And her daughter saw something in me. Miss Stephanie was like, she took me in. I would stay with her, I would live with her. She would drive me up. There was one studio in my town, another bigger studio an hour and a half away. So she would get me in her car and drive me to make sure I was getting all the classes that I needed . Do you know what I think is interesting in life I mean, again, the word she's safety. You get into my head like she was safe. She was safe. She just wanted good things for you. She did. And she she and listened and hold a space. Stop again . You only need one person . You do to see you . That is the truth . That is the joy. And I think with having my account to me, I wanna be that person for as many as I can . Oh, that's so nice. Yeah . Are there people that you see in your academy where you think? Yeah , absolutely . It's even this beautiful dancer, Sophia and she single mom like really thought the world of maybe one day being a dancer just felt like there was no way she could accomplish it or go to performing arts college needed scholarships and throughout the competition series , at the end she gained a scholarship at Synergy and got a full ride and is now at Wilkes Academy. I'm gonna see something like all of us were her mom, us, Max, we're all just bawling her eyes out. Like that just changed her life . There's possibility now. That's huge . Yes, it's the best feeling. When did you start the academy? It's been four years now, I think. Wow, and how many people have you gotten there now? two hundred and forty kids. two hundred. We started with six. We have a little we turned our garage into a studio started with six kids few classes a week. Now we're pretty much every day of the week . We're in school. We have a competition team like two hundred and forty students now, faculty of six, ballerina teaching ballet from a royal ballet. We've got a partnership with Flawless , so they kind of lead up the street dance division. We've got tap, we've got contemporary. It's just incredible. And there's a lot of street dancers out there who are now because they're with us are expanding into contemporary and great trying other things. Yeah , other things. It's incredible. Yeah. Do you know what an ESIM is? Be honest. It does the same job as a physical sim , but it's built into your phone digitally. And Saley, whose sponsors begin again , is an ESIM app that I love because it gives you a safe, secure internet data connection overseas without having to pay expensive roaming fees. It's available in over two hundred destinations and it comes with built in cybersecurity. But the best part is that it lets you change your online location to home while you're away. If you've been watching a show for example, then you go on holiday and suddenly you can't access it anymore. Well with Saley you can give it a try, download Saley in the app store by scanning the QR code that's on your screen right now and for chee aky fifteen percent off your first purchase you can use the code Divina at checkout. That's Devina for fifteen percent off . Our sponsors Paramount Plus have sent me a peek at their new original series The Madison. Press play , I'm so excited Go . You know, at night, look at the scenery. The Bo El come down to the river and bugle . And it drives the lady out . Oh my God, already stop. Kurt Russell still got it. son Boyfer looks epic. She looks so good. The worry is what you do . I know you are hurting. Wait, stop. I'm gonna cry a lot aren't I? I think it's gonna be one of those ones. I'm gonna be howling . I have a very small window to feed this Yes, that's a trip field . Yes , fish . You know one of those dramas where you just go yes at the telev ision. It's gonna be that. I can tell already. If you like Begin again , you're going to like this because there are life stories that we will all recognise and be able to relate to. I'm scrapping all my plans for tonight. I'm going to watch this non stop because the Madison is streaming right now on Paramount plus. Get on it. I want to go back to the Priscatos because I'm still, I'm going all over the place. It's fascinating. Yeah. So you'd left home. You were going to New York in the holiday scholarship. You were doing the scholarships, and then you went to dance , like you left at sort of seventeen to go to LA. At seventeen, I drove to Las Vegas, Vegas to get to do some auditions and end up on cruise ships. Yeah. So I did cruise ships for a couple years. Yes. It was horrendously seasick . Horrendous . Couldn't keep my weight under control. It was a lot of things happening in those times. And I just wanted to find work on land. And I always went back to those music videos and I live in color and these things that I loved. And Miss Stephanie, that one person in my life that was such a driving force, always said, L. A. is where it's at. If you want to do that kind of work, film and television, you've got to go to LA. So you went from Vegas to LA. Drove to LA, I didn't know a song Yeah. So you didn't know anybody. You just turned up in LA. I turned up in LA with a bag and a dream . I worked everywhere for roommates. I thought the rent would be much cheaper than it was. I realized this was going to be this gonna be hard . But I find like found a roommate that I was living with for a while which was crazy but got through it and just slowly started working my way into the LA life. Showed up in a Leotard and Tights in a ballet bun into a Brian Friedman class. I was like, I have got a lot to learn here. So just explain to everybody who Brian Friedman is. So Brian Friedman is probably most well known as being Brittany Spears' choreography for I'm a slave and all of her big tours. He's done such phenomenal work Dancing for Dana Jackson was just in a lady gaga video. He has sort of been like the one to go for when it comes to being a working dancer in LA at that time. He was a choreographer for X factor over here for quite some time. A lot of people might know him from that , but he's formidable and incredible . I bet he loved you . Well, you know what ? When it came down to it, I was working for him and doing a fitness video for him, be free . And when I got the call for the Pussycat Dolls, I had to sort of choose because Brian was like, you can either come with me and we'll go on a Brittany Spears tour or you're going to have to do pussycat dolls. And I had to choose between Brian Rainway and Pussy dolls. Yeah , because you've got no guarantee that puts it out dollars is going to be big. And when how old were you when they were looking for people to come and join a new girl group like to form a new band . Well, when I arrived to LA, it was looking for roommates. I could see on the wall there was these things about the Pussycat dolls with Carmen Elect ra and all these people that were would like to go and watch the shows like Justin Timberlake and Dr. Dray and the cast of the OC at the time I was like, What is this? It looked cool. Remember the little hush the little shushig on the picture and the outfits they were wearing and fishnets and corsets and all this. I was like, what is it? And it just so happened that in Livoring Col Dream, I was doing a TV show called Cedric The Entertainer Presents and it was very much like in Living Color with sketches and he had his fly girls, which was one of my first big TV shows as one of the fly girls. Oh good. And another one of them, Nadine was one of the original Pussycat dolls. And she would tell me about doing this maximum cover shoot and doing all these photoshoots and performances. So I kind of had an idea about it. So how many girls were there in the pussycat do gs at the time? Because there were a lot, right? It was around for over ten years before we were ever a recording group. So I mean the number of it was a dance type. It was built on the backs of the dance community and it was a dance group of celebrity guests and they'd have guests like Christine Aguilera and Gwen Stefani and Brittany Murphy, Charlie Daron, Scarlet Johansen, just so many incredible celebrities that would come and be a part of the show. So it definitely had a buzz about it. It was like, I would get anything to be able to do something like that. How long did it take you? Why was it an audition before? One and a half . I know you I know you . Two days. Two days. What was it? I don't know if you remember the MTV show The Newlyweds with Jess ica auditioned for it and it was all documented and Robin Anton, who's the creator of the group, was the one choreographing . So she saw me at that audition and that night, not only did I get the job, but I also got a call about would you come join the pussycat dolls? So I was like, sure . And at the time Tovita, there must have been like between twelve and twenty girls in the group. Wow. There was lots of us. Yeah. Yeah. So they'd change you around and for different events. Would you sometimes all go to something? Yeah, we did the Viper Room. So Johnny Deck for Johnny Depp.. Yeah, amazing He was the reason it was called the Pussycat Dolls. He owned the Viper Room when they were doing their first shows with Christina Applegate. And it was all sort of burleski cabaret inspired. And he's like, You've got to give this a name. I want it every week. And so Robin went away, was like pussycat killed. There was like these beautiful films from way back when that she sort of pulled from and it became pussycat dolls. I mean, I'm already just kind of getting such a flavor you, the g rafter doing anything it takes to get where you want to get to, not in a kind of I'm going to stand on someone's head to get there, but the personal effort you will put in . So tell me about the person that was putting the pussycat dolls together. What kind of demands did they make on you to be in the group? Yeah. In the beginning it, was just a group of us . And as it was progressing, you know, when Swanny did the show, she brought her label and that's when they decided, Oh, there's there's something wrong here . So as it was progressing, you know, there was a strong group of core members that could feel the ground shaking beneath them. And I'll tell you what, it wasn't easy . You know, we were doing shows with twelve of us as the recording group was trying to figure out who was going to be the main cast. Now that's where it starts getting difficult. That's where it starts getting difficult. But I'll tell you what, that first show I did it was with pink at an E three electronics convention and it was the first time I'd have my fish nets and heels and hair dolled up in makeup and coming from where I did with such very little confidence. When those curtains opened, there was never a feeling like it about owning my space and feeling powerful and not having to give anything away, but being able to just own it standing shoulder to shoulder with these amazing talented women that was like, yes , this is the dream. I'm living it right now . So then when it came to the recording group and making changes, I was fighting for my life. I was like, no, there's something in me that's telling me I'm supposed to be here. I just didn't want didn't want that dream to go drifting , but it came close. That was a tough, tough moment in my life. I think because of there being a founding the founding sort of members of the dolls who had been in it for quite some time and had had a lot of success together with Carmen as the label was looking at bringing in new people and kind of changing things around as expected. I think everybody was kind of fighting for the lives not wanting their dream to come to an end. They were kind of fighted against each other in a way and I know what a woman's woman you are. Yeah . And after everything that you've been through and being helped by women and being not helped by women, you know, it's like suddenly you're pitted against women that you've been dancing with it' hsorrible . What I'll never feel like they read to anybody No, you know , and all I want to do is sort of lift up the room in the show that we're in together . But I know you was that person. That's who I am. I can't imagine how horrible that must have felt. It was horrendous. I didn't know how to deal with it. And of course I would just internalize it because when we did don't you, I was still on the chopping block. A lot of the group shots I wasn't in, one of the danc ings I'm dancing in my socks because I was trying to go on my belly to go down the banister to make epic moments because I had to show them that I was undeniably needed in this group. I went to every extent I could I'm going to have to go back and watch the video again . You'll see it . No, but what's funny is knowing that about you and then watching it will be interesting because you were fighting for your life. I was fighting for my life. And Andrea Lieberman, who is Gwen Stefani stylist, she came on board to do this video . I would say hours after practice to either help other girls feel good , help with creation. I mean, when I became a doll, not only was I being a doll, I was helping buy costumes, go to vintage shops, sewing, rhinestoning, staying up all night, doing anything I could to show just how much one I just want ed to learn and be a part and to grow and to be a part of this whole machine as much as I could. But I also knew that I also felt like I was having to make up for maybe my downfalls so I would overdo anything I needed to. The trauma that you've suffered with is the kind of thing that will put us into fight or flight constantly, right? Yeah. Your constantly parasympathetic nervous system is like I want to run. And I'm a flighter. Yeah. And all of a sudden this was like, no, actually I have to fight for this. Yes. That was new for me. Yes . And so now I was sitting in it and dealing with it and meditating on it and breathing through it and choosing better foods. And it was like, maybe I can actually find some self love for myself. Maybe I am valuable enough to find some self love . And I think in that moment, as much as I was crushed, I had to find my way through . And when Andrew Lieberman gave me that Mohawk for don't and put me in schools and biker boots, it was all of a sudden like another level of what it meant to own my space. It was a form of feminist anarchy that meant that when I'm singing, don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like me, it was never about anybody else. It was solely about can I maybe can I be hot? Can I like own what hotness is to me in my own version ? And that became my whole identity within the dolls. I was fighting for a new version of what being a woman could look like and what it could feel like . At Ollie, we've got wellness down to a science. From PMS to pregnancy to menopause. Our women's wellness line offers science backed support for every stage . No judgment, no shame, none of the stigma, just supplements designed to meet you wherever you're at. Ollie, choose science, over shame. Find support at a retailer near you or on ollie dot com that's ol . com Wow . I feel like that's a bit of a mic drop moment . That's amazing. Yeah . It was like repositioning everything being . This is why the dolls mean so much to me . I get it. Yeah , I get it. Yeah . And how frustrating was it when everybody just was banging on about clothes? Because it was your life, right? It was changing your life . It was helping you heal trauma, heal yourself from the inside out , like literally to you . And then I didn't just look at what they're wearing and the way they're making. What was the whole bus It was so hard, especially coming from the dance background that I come from. You know, dance is the driver for me. The Puzzy Ketolls was built on the dance community. And now I look back and it was like I get how misguided these headlines, how easy these headlines were. It's lazy. It's lazy. Always trying to pick women against women and call us strippers and call us all of these things. None of where it comes from or what it meant ever mattered to anybody , but because they put that out there, then it just sway public opinion to be like, well, they're just strippers or they're just that . But I think if anything, it made me dive back into my journaling. I did a lot of blogging. I had a blog called Beautiful Movement. So I was reaching out to people that felt like me. Early doors. Early doors. Yeah. I didn't know my name at the time when I was trying to do the blog sites, I was like, well, what can I do to swerve that and started this whole movement with beautiful movements? What did you mean you didn't own your name at the time? When I knew that sort of the tough bits of the pussy cat dolls was unavoidable. I had to start sort of planning well what is beyond this? It was always meant to sort of be a stepping stone for what was to come next . And so writing has always been a huge part of me, journaling. God's been journaling since I was seventeen years old, putting all these experiences in it. I had to share it with somebody. So I'd share it with myself. I mean, journaling is an amazing gift for healing as well. Massively, I would say circling back to that, I think journaling and art therapy, just painting for the sake of painting , that those were two things that were huge for me. Just creative, aren't you? It's amazing . Yeah Everything about you, you need that release. I need it, I need it. Yeah, it's my lifeline. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Airbnb. I am desperate to get to Greece. Can you blame me? I'm in Greek salad, ocean swims, maybe a donkey or two. Michael and I want to take the whole blended family on holiday this summer and when I told my team they all started laughing because Sally, one of the brilliant people I work with, is also desperately keen to go to Greece. Get this, she's gonna host her home in London on Airbnb while she's off holidaying and staying at an Airbnb in Greece. How's that for strategic? So Sally's hosted before and she said to me that it is just a really totally easy way of earning some extra money on the side, especially when her home's just sitting empty when she's on holiday. So all she has to do is make her place available for the dates that suit her and off they go, the money that they make from hosting gets put into a pot for their next trip . So have you ever thought about hosting on Airbnb? Why not give it a go . Your home might be worth more than you think, find out how much it's worth at airbnb.co. UK slash host . So when you were talking about the pussycat dolls that you saw it was going to be a bit troublesome at times. It was going to be troublesome to Vina and that you might need to think of a life beyond that . What was it like when it got difficult . It was like the headlines were saying one thing, the business was saying another and all of it was told me that I was replacable and worthless . And that was hard because it meant so much it was so different my experience of it was so different But there was no outlet to you were before social media, there was no outlet to be able to control that narrative or have a say or be able to formulate it in a different way or share my experiences . So I needed an outlet . How frustrating was that? The most frustrating, the most frustrating, for sure . And to think, you know, you could you have these feelings. And you know it's for good and it's for the betterment of wanting to stand up for your sisters and stand up for what this means, but there is no place to put it . I had to create a place. And luckily, Will I am was doing a social media site called Dip Dive for Creatives . So I dove right in and started doing . I tip dove straight into beautiful movements . I remember beautiful movements. Yeah, you tell me about that. Yeah. I've still got the most amazing community of people around the world that a lot of them were struggling to come out to their parents and felt worthless or were dealing with self harm and felt worthless. And I certainly was never trying to be the one to make the change in their lives, but what I saw was by owning my own story helped change them anyway . And they still come to all my DJ gigs and it still feels like such a family. It's incredible. What I thought was quite shocking about what you said earlier was about not feeling safe in the band . Like, you know, it had been your everything . It had been it had literally rescued you. Yeah, saved you. Yeah . And then suddenly it goes that's home and you don't feel safe anymore. No, you're replaceable. That's the worst feeling in the world I've grown from such a low . I got to such a place where I felt like I'd overcome so much to then end up in a low again. Yeah, but my dreams have come true. How is it that the dream that was supposed to get me to this beautiful place has its downfall too to take you back to what you've been running from so then through beautiful movements I was starting to build a little bit of self worth again. What I was trying to find another word for pride and I found the word hubris earlier . And what I love about you is your lack of hubris. Like it's not that you are a proud person, you're a proud woman, a dancer , but it's you're not too proud to I'm sorry for using this term, but to begin again like at anything . Yeah , you are very happy to start at the bottom of somewhere and go you were world famous . Yeah . You were instantly recognizable across the world people screaming, don't you you? I think have us like me doing slap drops everywhere , you know ? And I was just looking to see if there's somewhere I could do a slap drop around here. But do you know my husband's cousin is an editor and he was doing some program and he had to edit something about a slut drop. We didn't know what it was, so he'd googled it. Was it you? I don't even know if we're allowed to say the words lockdrop anymore like we're gonna get packed . Yeah, let's rename it. Rename it. Why should we rename it? Let's do that now . Hot drop. Hot drop . I love that. Hot drop. I'm going to do a hot drop. I love that. That's much nicer. Yes, it is. Yeah, because we're hot. Exactly, and we're dropping. We're not the other thing. Exactly. Oh my god, we've come up with a thing. It's already happening. So you know, you were talking about finding a way out and kind of deciding that you knew there was going to be a time when it was all going to have to end. Yeah, but I was just talking about you being world famous and how humbling that is going back when you've been like that , that what expectations did you think people have on you? Was that a weight for you or did you just think, No, I'm just going to graft, I've got to find another way of making money. I'm going to go and do something else. And sorry also did you make money out of the pussycat dolls? Or was it one of those cases where it's like a manager makes all the money in the record company and you don't because you sold fifty four million records, right? Yeah. That is mental. That is mental . Yeah . We were the first three hundred and sixty deal ever done in the music business. Exactly. So as every napster was coming out, streaming was coming out. So labels were looking for a way to sort of save their asses. And the dolls was the first time that they became a partnership. So anything that we made was shared . Usually the label takes in just the album sales, whereas they're taking in touring and merchandise and branding deals and all of that. On top of that, it was also a joint vent ure between the pussycat dolls and the label. And then we were castmates in an agreement with the label. So yeah, the levels in which I didn't see that amount of money is definitely present . But again, your dream and ambition sometimes mean so much more than money to what extent? Yes. And that's what it kind of came down to That's quite frustrating to look back at. Yeah, maybe. Yes and no, because I knew it at the time, even though I was young and naive , I came to an agreement of when I signed that contract, I knew what I was getting myself into and I needed to be mindful of that throughout. And I think that 's why when things started to go a bit messy, I had to save my ass. I had to look for a way to just protect my future and see what that looked like for me. And when it finally when it all kind of came to an end and my mental health and physical health wasn't going to sustain what was being asked of me , that's when I had to put my ego aside. The identity of being a pop star and being known. This is what I mean. It was a that was a moment deal, right? Big deal. You're a pop star, not just a pop star. You are world famous. Yeah . It comes with an electric . You have to let it go. Oh, you have to let it go. So hard. The hardest. And you want to keep showing up for the fans in the way that they want to see you , but it's unsustainable. And she social media had just started, so a lot of wanting to connect was fans sites and all I was seeing is just images of me, being a doll and being this version of me that they'd fallen in love with . And I crumbled it, sort of took a sledgehammer to it because I had to let go of my ego and that identity . And I just unfollowed everything to my own detriment. I hurt a lot of people and I feel so bad about that. I didn't realize how much a follow felt to certain people at that time. Oh, I see, right? Yeah, people were saying I was dead to them and how dare I and all of this. So that just then piled on top of everything I was feeling. But I had to let go of my ego and that was the only way for me to do it is to stop living in a bubble of a representation that had been built of me that I had to set a standard for every time I woke up. Yeah . And then that meant I went back to sort of sitting in my peace and was like, well, what's the one thing that's always driven me is dance . So I came to London and I went and started teaching some dance classes, teaching heels classes . And that's when I finally found Got to Dance and found my new home and my new family again . Did it just blow everybody's mind when they walked in? You were there. They'd be lucky. It did . Yeah, it did. Absolutely. And I think, you know, the leg tilt is a thing when I did when I grew up and came up with my leg tilt. That was like just explained. It's the thing where you go your leg is over. But you don't just go halfway the leg. She goes up with, we're gonna put a clip of it in . Molly , get the clip in . The leg comes up and then it doesn't just go up. She goes further . I'm gonna show that to Michael . I'm going to go that's what you aim for. Forget the box it's actually stretcher out. Do more . It's gonna literally blow his mind He's gonna let go of all trauma hips wide open . But I mean that was that was a like for me in that moment that was a little bit of a clap back. It was being like, you know, in the pussycat dolls and you know, I'm a dancer singer. A dancer will always be first in my soul . And I think the control over the group was to control perception of being single women and being papa stars and being a certain thing and controlling who is where I'm doing what . And I always wanted to wave the flag for dance but didn't feel like I had an outlet for that. I wasn't sort of allowed to do that. So quietly, doing that leg tilt, let all the dance community know it's like, I got you . And so I think then coming to the UK it was like and teaching that class and seeing the looks on people's faces to think that I would give back all of these experiences that I've had and allowed them a chance to feel like a pussy cat doll in heels and dance and be free and get their legs up and open those hips . It felt like okay, purpose man, purpose work, giving back to people that need it to the next generation, to those that just need to feel self confident and self aware and feel like there's purpose through movement and expression and just being fine and being themselves . That was like, okay, this is this is where it's at . I mean, it's back to basics. It's back to basic. There's so much . Yes. And this is this is your safety. Yeah , like you have created your own place of safety . Yeah . Well done. Thanks . Oh, I really mean it. Like you've lived a big complicated, difficult life. But you're a huge part of that, Davina, because when I got on got to dance, you opened your arms to me and gave me a space to feel safe. And you know, being on the panel with Ashley and Adam and Aston, like it gave me a place to put all the stuff that I had worked so hard. And I felt like any thirty seconds I had to speak, I had to plant a seed in that dancer to help them reach for their potential as artists, athletes, and people had a purpose to make it different , to do something, to have an outlet, to have a voice for good. And God to Dance gave me that. I hope you don't mind, but I want ed to just go back to talk to you about your parents because when you left home you kind of left home. There was no going back. There was no going back. Yeah. It's interesting other people's reactions to being stepping back from your own parents are quite a lot to handle. Yes. So how have other people handled you taking a step back from your parents, how has it been for you and where are you at now with them ? I think family wise , especially amongst my brother and sister, there is such an understanding . And we didn't talk a lot for the longest time because we're all dealing with our own sort of traumas and things. But where that's left us now is a real beautiful sort of we allow space for each other and our own stuff and allow for each other to be able to still be a sounding board for anything that might come up. Right. But so you're close to your siblings. Yeah, yeah, that's yeah . Yeah. What I love about having a sibling is that siblings are really the only people who know exactly who nobody understands. That's kind of like she knows exactly who I am . Like no one will ever know because no one's ever experienced what you have, but your siblings. Absolutely. Absolutely . I know my siblings have been through their own stuff from especially my brother , you know, he lost his father at a really young age and he's been through his own battles . And I think he needs to know that I love him and being able to be that part of his life. What's his name? Steph.en Steven. We love you. She loves you . And he shows up for me like nobody else and I hired so nice and so grateful for it . But touching on what you said it',s been a really challenging part is not having that family background. And I think when you cut ties , you're judged for it thinking that you must have done something wrong. Yeah . And I find that really difficult. Yeah , it's how do you rise above that? You can't explain that away . And even doing it was not too long ago, I was doing dancing on ice and I could see those that are surrounded by family , they feel like a safe person to love and support . And if you don't have that, it does give off an energy that people don't know where to place . They don't fully trust you. They don't feel , you know, if parents can love and you're showing a respect and that for them, then oh they must be a good person. It's hard to be like, I know I'm a good person , but I can't I can't prove it If you need other people to prove it for me, I don't have that. Your kids can. Yeah , yeah . I mean, I've never heard talked about like that before. That's really interesting. Yeah . That's why it's kind of shocking that people kind of assume that it must be something to do with you. You must have definitely must have done something wrong. Yeah. And we can never get away from that. It's isolating. It is yes Quickly want to talk about Max Yes Because you married a British. I did . Well done it happened. Well done, well done. That happened. You are literally nauseatingly attractive couple. He's such a lovely guy, Ma. You just celebrated twelve years. We did. Congratulations. Marriage, crazy. How was it? Yeah , it was amazing. I mean, I've never done anything for twelve years. That's your most successful relationship ever. It is . And yeah, gosh, just think all those years ago, close to live, you walked me down the runway and soon enough , we were falling in love and moving to the UK and starting a whole new life, a whole new chapter, a whole new beginning. Three kids. Three kids later. It's just it's my biggest success. It's everything I live for. It changes who you are. I never felt so grounded and so happy . Sometimes you get like you get mixed up in the world and the whirlwind of work and school runs and trying to make sure you get everything and you never quite hit the mark of getting everything done. But if I sit, I often do , like, I wouldn't change anything. I am so happy. I have everything I've ever dreamed of or wanted or wished for, and that's a thing in its own right . Well, everything is different. Everything is different Yeah . And when you've been a flighter for a long time and you just finally have to sit in your little surrey beaut,iful bubble , there's a lot of work to be done in that as well. And twelve years later, I feel like I've done a lot of work to be in my own two shoes, in my own space and feel like, you know, I'm ready to fight for this now. And also just to breathe. Just go, you know, it's like almost your shoulders because you're like this. And suddenly you can kind of go , Oh, wow, okay, this feels nice, right? Yes, this feels amazing . There's a couple of things I want to ask you. These are just DAAF questions . But firstly , I was thinking a lyric here. We were talking about this before the show started and I just need to know here You did say boobies. I'm sorry Boobies. It's groovy. It's boobies. I bet you do this . What am I supposed to think? No, but honestly, it's groupies. It's boobies. Roopies . I reckon you said boobies and and then the record label was like, You can't say that. It's okay, it sounds like groupies, let's change it to that. It's groupies . Oh, I certainly wanted boobies, I tell you. How what's it like because I know you guys are kind of planning something. Can you just give us a bit of an insight into what is going on because this is very, very exciting? Oh my gosh, well , it's been a while, six years since the last time we were together. So that was twenty nineteen. Yeah . And that was it, wait, let's just quickly just go over that because that was difficult. Yeah. You guys did reform . You'd had a baby C section . You've literally been sewn together jumping off stage. Jumping off stage I like madness , but it was a hard time for you guys. It was it didn't go as you hoped. Oh my gosh, it was COVID, man. All the girls had we'd done all the promo, we'd been here, Australia, everything was going really well . And it was the first day of our three weeks of rehearsal . The girls had flown over from LA , literally had to turn around and fly back because it was the first day of lockdown . So all of lockdown , I was teaching pussycat dolls routines, thinking, Well, Tour is going to come back and it didn't. And I found out sort of just as I was going on dancing on ice, one of our first shows and was just devastated. Like I said, the dolls mean so much to me and it has such a purpose in my life and like I was ready to finally live that out, sort of need a bit of closure ready for it to come to its own potential . And can I just say something? We needed that. You know what I mean? It's like we were robbed. Yeah, COVID nineteen was terrible for many reasons. And that was one of them. And this post that you did on your Instagram was just so brilliant. It was like, What did you say in it again? It was like something like Are you Are you ready or hang on? Are you ready for me? Yes, something like that. God, I love Daddy. I was like, Yes , I'm ready . Are you ready? Are you ready ? Yes . I was born ready. So tell me . So it's looking like, you know, I think as women, it's important come back together and make this all happen again and just go for it . I think this time around, you know, a lot of the things that really meant so much for me and the dolls, you know, wanting to have a purpose and shine our light and own our space and allow for the audience to feel that way too. We are ready to entertain . So can I just ask you coming back as a mum? Yeah , you know, a wife, different energy, but the same energy. Yeah , how important is it for you to fly the flag for other women at that stage of their lives going like anything is possible. It's so important. It's like the most important thing in a way because not when I flying the flag for women, I'm flying it from mums and I'm flying it for my own kids and my own dance academy. do When all these we competitions , everybody's always dancing to pussy cat dolls. We've got our own performance icons to pussy cat doll music. My kids want to put on when I grow up, roll down the windows and blare at on the school run. My oldest doesn't want me to go into the school unless I look like a pussycat dog. She needs her friends to know that her mum's a pussycat doll. So just to be able to circle back at this stage in life it means a lot. Pussycat . Pussy cat doll This is what I am. This is why I am It's a huge part of me as well. Like and I want to tap back into that energy of what it meant to me and be able to fly that flag again. It's probably one last time Never say that . Yeah, it's like there's always time and space to come back again and again . And I think this idea of still being able to be young, vibrant, and sexy at any age is really important . It is. I am going to dress inappropriately for the rest of my life. And I'm gonna make it appropriate yes to dress like this forever because I think nobody gets to tell us no when we're past ourselves by date. No. We decide that. We decide that and putting that latex back on and tapping back into those big heels and hair and makeup was like, yeah, this is fun. I like her. This is like It's a part of your character that you don't always get to tap into . But the Pussycat Dolls gives you the ability to do that . And again, doing all these dance competitions, the kids, the dance community understands what the dolls is about . You know, the costumes, the hair, the makeup, the music, being able to move a certain way. The kids get it. So to be able to wave that flag and say not only do you get it now, but you can get it for the rest of your life , but also to see you going back , doing it again. The graft, the work, the energy that you have to put into it. I mean, for your kids, your kids are dancing, right? They're dancing. Yeah. And they're doing great, aren't they? They do brilliant love. Oh my gosh, I can't even tell you, seeing them on stage and what it does for them is just insane. It's like looking like little me up there. Did I inadvertently give Willow child? Yeah. Her name her child. Can you just explain how that happened? So while I was doing the jump, learning winter sports in Austria. Yep. You 've done a lot together, haven't we? Well, I was checking back in. And on the flight back , Max and I were giglinks. We're getting married in two weeks. And you came to chat to us. We were so embarrassed because you were like, well, what are you guys talking about? What? Future kids names . And you said, you know, I've got a brilliant name for you. I remember looking at him like what is it? What is it? And you'd said Willow . And you walked away and both of us looked at each other like that is the perfect name if it's a daughter . And in out came our willow . And you know , when we see you on Telly you're doing your thing, we always say Willow, that's the woman that named you. There's Tavina. So I was with her this morning getting ready her for the school run and I said, I'm gonna be with Davina. She's like the one that named me. She says, Well, I've got a name for her. Oh yeah. Are you ready for that? Yes, Diva McCall my god Deva McCall it Deva McCall so good two snaps out a twist and a kiss What Yes . And then our second child was based on the tree thing. We went with Maple. Oh , the words keep each other alive. We're like a sisters. We hope you all always keep each other alive. And Sana. And Sanna , so my father in law was a race car driver, F one Ford, I think it was. Oh wow. And he looked a lot like an Senna back in the day with curly hair and the whole thing. And so my husband, always being a big fan of it and Senna was like, if we have a boy, that boys be named Senna. So he's named Senna. Wow. God, that's amazing . And they must be super excited about you guys coming back. They are beyond excited. Not only it's not even about seeing us on stage, it's the possibility that they can get on the stage . That's their dream. They're like, can you get us on stage? Yeah Yeah, you've got you got to, you've got to do. So what does the lineup look like? Who is everybody back? So it's looking like me, Nicole and Ashley. Three of us. Oh my god. Three of us. Amazing. Yeah And do choreography going well? We'll be jumping right into that very soon. Plans are in place. Okay, I'm here to teach me a move. Always yeah, always here to teach me a move. Okay, great, great. Yeah. And also you're going to be touring , but and new music coming out. Yes. Can I just am I allowed to tell people? Yeah . I've heard it. Yeah . It's a banger. I mean, honestly, like, what did I have to do last night? Yeah I actually had to text Kimberly. Yeah, you did. No, 'cause I was like, you know, when somebody messages you and they go I've written something odd and you go , Oh, please be good . Please be good, please be good. Because I love you so much. And I was like, please, please let me love it. Oh my God, it did not disappoint. I was like, Oh , it's like grindy, a bit sexy Totally like Americans girls together and grow down. And your boys. And your boys. Get your boys together. All the boys . Kimberly , I just want to say I am I am so proud of you. Thank you . You are such a shining light of how to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, start again , pick yourself up, dust yourself off . You are a grafter , but you also bring us all so much joy . Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Kimberly, why are everybody? In a woman's drop. Hang on. Spot look at the spot . Look how low she goes. The hot drop , the hot drop . Wait, wait, I'm gonna move this mic out of the way. Give me wait, watch this everybody give me a Kimberly like stand up from there. Okay . Yeah Yes ! Queen ! Look at her . Look at her. Can you come on here and accept your surprise for you? Surprised. Four surprises The hat