Trans Healthcare and Military Policy

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Join Simon Plus, our new rewards program for free and get two point five times the points in addition to extra savings, cashback, and offers that also work at shopsimon.ot comot Grab the fam, head to a Simon center and make it a day for the books. It's a celebration thing. Sign up today at Simonplus d. comot Rewards program terms apply, seeee Simonplus d. com for details The Second World War was the largest event in human history twenty part documentary series with Tom Higs. No part of the globe was untouched, No life unchanged. experience the ultimate account of World War II. Every single person had a story These are the stories that make us who we are New new episode Monday at eight, part of History Honors two hundred fifty, only on the history channel. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch if you want If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to be nothing new here for you. but You can make your own decisions Mia, are you excited today to learn about Gregory Hey Bin know You know, I would describe myself going into this as ammateur but enthusiast Greg Pavvino hater. I am very familiar with his work in Chicago. I'm familiar with his work in Minneapolis. I am less familiar with his other work I'm excited to have a higher tier of hater of one of the worst people we've ever had. Yeah, really a gem of the American law enforcement system. We're going to talk mostly today about Greg Bavvino's post career pivot, which seems mostly to be asking to have his old career back. But we can talk also a little bit about his previous career work when he was down here, he was in IB, He was in El Centro, he was in Blythe for a while Last week, Mia He was in Portugal Oh boy. Yeah, do you want to guess why? Okay going through my history of Portugal, it's ry they had a left wing military coup that didn't go far enough by which they they never quite got rid of all the fascists Yeah A country that notably has a long history of fascism. Yes Which is why he was there actually. He was there in a rem migration summit. Oh no. Yeah. like I'm just going to use the Cerence's own website here. It is a set fiscal, cultural, economic, social, political and logistical policies whose objective is to prevent population replacement through the reversal of migratory flows There's nothing there undocumented people. There's nothing there about visas, right? because it isn't about that This is about race and ethnicity and removing people who do not line up with what you consider to be the national race. Yeah. this is the ethic cleleansing campaign. Yeah. I mean, obviously there's like a lot of parallels in the history of all of these countries, but like I think if you look at the most immediate one, it's Oh, this is like the shit the Nazis were talking about doing while they were building the concentration camps with like Jewish people, right? Is that they were going to like deport them all. to Israel or whatever. Yeah, we'll keep moving them east and At the very least, this is an ethnic cleansing plan. Yeah. That's the explicit goal. Yeah right. L There is not mention in that definition of undocumented people, even the way that Bavina prefers to refer to it as illegal aliens term he uses a lot and I think He sometimes uses it in a quite elastic fashion, but even in this case, that is not what this conference is about. No. ye. is very much a conference about a white Europe. Yeah. It was organized by Martin Selner Selna is a neo Nazi who famously exchanged emails with Brenton Tarnt, the Christchur shhooter. Oh great. Yeah, Pfino spoke about this at the conference and he said that they hadn't met in person before, but after talking for a little while, they found they were on the same sheet of music. Incredible? Yeah, you' gott to Google people, man. like you Google Martin Sellner and the first thing that comes up is that he emailed Brenton Tarant, unless I guess that's not an issue. Yeah, right Judging by the general company he kept, I don't think that's an issue because He's join like like Spanish Vox partarty there Ae there AFD, the German far right partarty racists from all over Europe We also saw The sort of racists in America who I would describe as like fancy racists, like the race science guys, right? Oh, the kind of like the beret people. Yeah Is it those guys or is it the kind of newer gen like Fasc people. So there's overlap between them. No, it's like the Vider kind of tendency. Yeah, no Should should we explain with the Veder? Yeahah, a little bit? Go ahead, man, Yeahah take it Yeah. or I was just going to say at some point we're going to have Molly on. I am a I am what you would call a I guess technically a professional Nazi identifier or whatever, but I'm like a low level one and everyone else in this network is a very high level on. So we'll probably have Moll on at some point to like actually really go into Vid air and like that kind of shit. but Yeah. It's broadly speaking, it's Peter Brimelow's anti immigration website. We're not talking about annti immigration terms, like discussions about what visas we should give, right? We're talking about like white nationalism. Yeah. These are like Nazi Nazis. These are people that yeah, you know, like I don't think the US has ever really had what in Europe is called like the Quarton Canitary, which is supposed to separate out like the mainstream right wing parties from like the Nazis We've never had that. So Vidir has been kind of more in anti immigration circles it's also like those are people that, you know Even you're kind of like really, really far right like people on the radio or politicians don't associate with because they are fairly open Nazis Yeah, there was some stuff that traced back to Vida. in agenda forty seven. I remember thinking like, this ain't good. Yeah. VA just for people who like have lived a blessed life and don't know refers to Virginia Dare who is I believe the first white child or the first child first girl. I don't maybe this was b before, but I think it was the first white child born in the United States of settlers One of the b of Roanoke people, right? Yeah, which is I don't know, like maybe you motherfuckers could have made like the row of people and disappeared But ye yeah, but ye, that would be nice. unfortunately, may. No. Unfortunately they didn't and they didn't, unfortunately assimilate into indndigenous cultures the way that the Ronao people almost certainly did. Yes. And instead decided qu do again a half a millennial long campaign of terror and bloodshed Yeah It's interesting to see Bvino, I guess, like aligning with these. European anti migration discussion is different It's not really dealing so much in undocumented people. It's dealing with people under various legal statuses. I'm not saying there aren't undocumented people in Europe that are, but the discussion there has moved past that in a toxic way Yeah in a way that it's like we need to remove these people even though they do have legal documentation that allows him to be here. If the stateatesays you're cooling or you're not cooling like That's not my concern. Yeah. but it's still alarming to see The bigotry move past even that, right? L without the pretense of enforcing the law. Yeah and just simply being about removing people who we don't think we want to live next to because they're not white know, one of the groups that you talked about there, like the AFD and Germany, like this has been happening for like a long time. but one of their like slogans is to remove Kabab. Yeah. And that's just literally like remove all Turkish people from the country. Yeah. And the AFD wants to do this. There' documents that have leaked from them that of them planning at conferences to, okay, this is how we're going to remove the non white people. This is how we're going to remove the Jewish people This is not even like the pretense of Anthing has to do with the law, this is just like We are the original Nazis if we want to do ethnic cleansing against non white people. Yeah. Most of the people at the conference are peddalling great replacement shit, right? And they they genuinely believe that that is something that exists and that they can reverse it At the conference, Bavvito gave an interview. I found it on a website called Braz Info E R E I Z H. It's a Breton and French language website It's also published I saw in a couple of other substacks, so I wonder if it was a pool interview that he gave. And various people translated it I should note that I translated it from French I don't think Babino speaks French, so I'm imaging they translated it from English to French. And there is an editor's note that says the editor was an AI Oh great So any of the quotations here, we can't attribute them directly, right? Like Yeah We can't assume that those are the words he said in English because it's been through three layers of bullshit Yeah So of understand that going in. Nonetheless, I think It's a very interesting insight into how Greg Bavvino sees the world and what Interesting about that is like Gregor P Fom was very popular in Border Patrol. He was by the standards of a patrol, a good border patrol agent, right He was liked and I don't think he developed these opinions in a few months since he retired No You know. And like a lot of the way he talks is not dissimilar to the way border patrol agents talk among themselves, right I think that like what is interesting about this is not like Greg Pevino is essentially sharing a platform and agreeeming with Nazis It is. After twenty five, twenty six years in more than actually thirty years in the border patrol This is what the border patrol formed him into. Yeah Because the point I want to make here is this shit is not. something we can easily reform. This is not something we can brain If this country gets through this And in twenty twenty Yes, we have another election. God can't fucking let this keep happening, right? the tool that V Vino Yeah was deploying in Minneapolis in Chicago. in Charlotte and all these other cities in Los Angeles, right? Yeah Memphis, like New Orleans, like Yeah, like all over the country. Yeah It is a tool that Democrats, Bill as well as Republicans. Yeah. and the place he's at, he got to with eight years working under Barack Obama with four years working under And Joe Biden, like we need to understand what we are diverting a fire hose of money towards Yeah with the border patrol, right? And I guess we can just start with where Greg Pfino started, which was comparing himself to Nazi General Erwin Rommel. Great. Yeah, right out the gate. He also compared himself to Pat and T. Lawrence. You know, like historically, it makes you wonder Yeah I think he probably has some kind of clean Vermmark thing going on in his head where they're just soldiers and he can respect both of them for their tactical prowess, you know, like He says, quote, They grasp the overall strategy where others in government or in the political class did not see it or refuse to see it Strategic expertise combined with feelield command, especially in chaotic exposed events is very rare I also listened to a couple of podcasts that Bvino did with a former border Patrol agent who used to work in San Diego sector And you hear us a lot, right? Talk about battle, talkal about soldiers But Vino sees himself as like a general on boarder patrol as his soldiers fighting in a war That's not What they do Oh The clearly they see it is that I understand why because like they they've gone around the country generating so much ill will that yeah everywhere they go people fucking hate them Y your actual job and this only we saw in Chicago is dragging screaming babies out of their fucking homes and putting them in camps. Yeah. I think this is going back to the thing you were talking about earlier about this not being something that's reformable is that Yeah, that task is what border patrol was built for. That's what it was doing under all of these administrations.' fucking dragging people screaming from their homes in the dark of the night I'm like, The only way you can get people to do that is by creating a crucible that creates Nazis. You can't have compassion for the people whose families you're tearing apart, right? People should read Jen Birud's book if they want to know what going through Border Patrol Academy is like. So this give a trigger warning that Jen was sexually assaulted and writes about that. Border Patrol has very high sexual assault rightight Border Patrol, It's ninety five percent male. Yeah. I have seen people in border patrol do have compassion And they may have seen them anymore. Like it drives those people away They have a high dropout rate and like I think there are people who genuinely believe that what they will do their community safe and rescue people who get stuck crossing the border in the desert adjudicate them a fair process, deliver them to a fair process and that they will do the best they can don't see those people remain in the patrol for very long. Right. Like I interact with Obviously the stant to this podcast is that you should remain silent and not talk to cops, but I interact with border patrol agents more often than most people do, right? That is the nature of my job and the place I live and the places I go And like I think these days the recruiting they're doing they getting a lot of people who are coming in starting like this. Yeah. But I don' think that's always been the case. I understand that there are people also in communities along the border where there's very little economic opportunity and then this is the only chance they have But I see those people get spat out Like you said, Mia, if you are going to train people to tear families apart, then you have to do trarain them to hate And I think that is what we see in this, right? Like ye, It's really interesting. Vvino tells his own story a little bit and he tells his own story on this podcast I listen to as well He starts with operation Don't let him ride A familar with Operation Don't let him Ride? No. Okay. So you have to go all the way back to twenty ten. Oh Godd. In Las Vegas, Nevada. Little littleittle tiny baby Mia. Yeah thirteen year old Mia. Oh God, fuck me, I feel old I was in grad school And Ffino I think he's the Blythe station at that time And they do this operation at a bus station in Nevada It lasts for sixty minutes. It gets called off. The Devidas Senator is pissed off about it. Their goal, they said was to apprehend traffickers and to rescue people who had been trafficked or smuggled, right In a community meeting which like was convened because the whole Latino community in Las Vegas was like the fuck Right? This internal enforcement was not a common thing at the time Paul Beason, who was chief agent of the Uor sector at the time, said, quote, In that short period of time, we did not apprehend anybody we felt was actively engaged in alien smuggling. We did not encounter any human trafficking victims. So To me doesn't sound like like a win Yeah, so wa so they like they were just rounding people up at bus stops. Correct. They went to like a bus like a bus depot station. Yeah ye, like one of the big bus. Yeah. Yeah. And they just rounded people up and Yeahah, exactly. So his interview with this former border Patrol agent He said that they apprehended more than one alien per minute of the operation. That was called operation Don't let them Ride And u That operation was set for about three days It lasted sixty minutes. But the interesting thing is we caught more aliens than there were minutes in the operation. It was a very successful operation. veryer successy Very successful, yes, sir Harry Reed called Hussein Obama and had that shutd down immmediately But we never forgot that. We never forgot The vast amount of criminals that we apprehended in twenty ten on those bus checks in Las Vegas and the pervasive problem. Even then that we saw. a lot of that problem came in under under Barack Hussein Obama as well as Bill Clinton I wantan to note the newspapers at the time reported a number that was more than two dozen Technically, let's say the operation lasted sixty minutes, that is more than two dozen. It would be unusual to report a number of sixty by saying more than two dozen, right? Yeah. what is more interesting to me? is that this operation was supposed to find people who had been trafficked and people who were trafficking and it failed P Vino seems to have seen it as a success because it just found people. Yeah, right? Pople who were undocumented, people who were otherwise an infraction of immigration laws but who were not involved in trafficking because For him It seems like the goal was slightly different and therefore the criteria for success are slightly different. Right? And this kind of fits into this narrative of him. So like I can see why he it is Eespecially in the context of him talking to the remigration conference. for him it' to win But for the explicit goals of the Bordard of Patrol at that time, it's not So he cites this as the beginning of his journey to where he is right as a guy they went to for massive surges of border patrol agents into cities tearing families apart And I think if we see it the way he sees it, then we can see why he sees it as a success The Vino in his early career had worked a lot in the Al Centro sector, right? He eventually became chief patrol agent in the Allcentro sector. He was in Bortak for a while. I've read a deffense University paper that interviewed him. He was in Honduras with BortTC training border patrol there. Oh Jesus prr Yeah, I mean everyone should read Empire of Borders, Everyone should read Border Patrol Nation, But like the DHS has done this for years, right funded, armed and equipped. and trained border patrol units all over the Americas because that is how America externalizes its border. Yeah, in a very similar way to the way Europe does with Fantx and you know like the deals like with Gaddafian and the successive governments in Libya and stuff like that. Yes. And the people they're training there, it's like school of the Americas sh are just like actual monsters Yeah, I mean the u Sally Hayden'sbg, my third time We dred is one of the more heartbreaking books that's available for a human to read. But like if you want to know about the fucked up stuff Europe's doing in Libya It's a good book. Yeah. But yes, you this it moves the violence away from the metropol. Yeah, right. It moves it further I've seen it from my own eyes, right? I've seen what happens in Panama, notot necessarily The actions of any border patrols but just by forcing people to take that route, like I've seen, how the externalization of our borders kills people And I have seen Biden administration funded deportations of people who I can't find any criminal record for and I have seen literally babies taken out of people's hands. and they were deporting young men at that point. but I look I literally watch families torn apart right there just after crossing the Daring Gap and it's heartbreaking. Yeah Talking of heartbreaking we have done add pivot. Oh boy. Hopefully these product services will fix your heartbreak. Yeah. Oh God Yeah, H here's an advert for whiskey Okay, we are back So One of the things Bavvino did lightight this into is he sought to kind of distinguish himself from what he calls the status quo bureaucrats He' not wrong that like one of the roles of a chief in a sector is to speak to the press, right He seems to be very upset that Roddy Scott and Tom Homan didn't speak to the press when they started these big operations He says, quote, CBP Commissioner Rodaly Scott and Bordersar Tom Homan not only had no experience with full enforcement of migration laws but refused to speak publicly during operations Their reluctance triggered the unique situation I mentioned above, and neither sought nor asked become the public faith of the operation But for this type of operation, there can only be one The responsibility fell to me. When you listen to this interview he did when he was in the patrol. He wasn't as critical of his leadership as he is now. Yeah, probablyb very obvious reasons Bllig The let down by leadership thing is a thing We've seen this on the right so many times, right? Yeah, it's the classic backstab myth employed by one Adolf Hitler. Yes, ye, yeah, yeah, like in many cases therea And he kind of seeks in this to T differentiate field agents from like I guess what he calls status quo, bureaucrats, right? And he is genuinely very popular among field agents like And he didn't like grow through the border patrol, right? Like he's not a guy who look like came from somewhere else. Like he has a thirty year career. he's done like Mountain interdiction stuff down in the Hoomba wilderness. L like he's definitely like had his boots on the ground. I think they like that And I think for him That gives him like like the he feels like he speaks for the border patrol and that like these people who are like bureaucrats are what is constraining him and his guys from doing what they want to do and like It's really interesting he determes how he describes what they want to do,? He called the withdrawal from Minneapolis a surrender He called protesters the opposition to listen to He Ps protests pro fascist She's very given the company he keeps is fucking ridiculous. I feel like the other people at that conference can't be happy with that. Yeah, that's the thing, right? Where are the fascist here down. Yeah, they're not hiding it Like it's very interesting to see him like not willing to kind of surrender that term. you know what I mean? L to not quite say it At the same time as like yeah, yeah, there are other people like confereers who are like, no, where're fascist what are you talking about? They're not pro fascist. They hate us he's still like one step removed from joining his buddies there Another thing I found interesting was he says Border patrol is often referred to quote, the federal laaw Enforcement Marine Corps. What? Does anyone say that I'd not heard them say that. Oh, I what? I've never heard that. It's a very strange. I'm guessing what he's referring to is like the Marine Corps has these expeditionary units which can deploy very quickly to conflict zones. like we so in Iran, right? Like Yeah. And I'm guessing that's what he means. L they're the hit squad. Yeah, they're the like, oh my God, we found like four children sleeping in a bedroom. We have to go, we have to go send our like tactical squad after them our first line of defense against tiny babies And again think Americans exercising their firstirst Amendment rights. Yeah. When people were in the street in Portland, it was border patrol, they said. Yep. It was Portak. yeah Yeah. Right? They do have something of a history of being the federal government's hit squad. Yeah. when they want to stamp on Americans, they do send the border patrol Interestingly, he went on to cite the old Miss Riot. If you famar the O Miss Riot It sounds vaguely familiar, but I'm not sure. Yeah, I mean, you can surmise what's going to happen, right? It's a university in the south. Yeah. What happens is that James Meredith, a black man had attempted to register at the school several times. He had been prevented by racists, including the governor. And at one point, JFK sent border patrol agents along with federal, I think they were Cross swarn as marshals, maybe to accompany him to register. They ended up surrounded in the Lceum. twenty eight federal agents were shot. Jesus. Yeah, this is like they had a fucking fight about it. like Two of the people surrounding the Lceum were killed. You I'm not sure I've ever in my entire life seen a government deployment and thought you should have sent the National Guard, but like Yeah, I guess youre set the actual guard. Jesus. Yeahah, the the Southern race just really I guess love shooting beds to oppose integration Yeah, like in this case they sent the regular S army to come get them out. Yeah I think this was the era when they felt like national guards in the South were not entirely trustworthy. Yeah. well, yeah, you'd have to do a Trump style like we're sending the fucking like California national guuards to Mississippi or whatever. Yeah yeah. They normally send like one of those QRS like eighty secondcond airborne or something like that. Yeah, wow, I can't believe I'm in a position where I support the deployment of US troops against American. I know It'ssible I know, it's a wild scenario. I guess it's like because they're trying to do a lynching. So yeah. L in that case, yeah, maybe stop the lynching It's a really interesting choice because he talk he's talking about how border Patrols, you know like had this long history of doing this. And again, like he's not wrong And I guess maybe they all miss plays a part in their mythos because they were fighting against the racists I can see where they would want to hold on to that It's interesting to see him doing that at the racist conference. Yeah It's like, o, no, no, no, we are a different kind of racist. We are California racists. We are we are not like the primitive southern racists. We have advanced our level of racism to toing levels Yeah, and he's very popular amongst the like we're a different kind of racist racists, right? Like ye The Vvea tendency is the like quote, unquote scientific racists. Yeah. And by the way, I want to clarify before I get screamed that the thing I just said was like his perspective, not mine Jesus Christ, fuck these people. Yeah all of them Yeah, ye, yeah, please don't clip me out of context So like He then goes on after he's explained this to explain like his history of migration. He says that around in the year two thousand, quote unquote, the floodgates open His basic thesis is summed up in his statement fromr two thousand to twenty twenty six, our borders were nothing but speed bumps. Iillegals and smugglers knew that once they crossed the border, they were virtually safe from any consequences a couple things there that obviously includes Trump's first term and part of his second term Amnesia about Trump having a first term seems to be quite a common issue on the right. It's really astonishing. And on the left too. I don't know I'Z to W moreore ertain certain certain people who will go unmentioned who were working for Blackwater under the first Trump administration. Yeah, it's very interesting to see this narrative, but again not an uncommon one right? Like he talks about how he wrote a paper called Illegal Aliens Destruct of Natural Resources. So he has two master's degrees. One is from the National Defense University I'm not sure if that's his second master's thesis whichich would I'd be interested to read it, but I haven't been able to find it. I'm not sure NDU makes master stuff public and I think generally how it works is you have to opt to make it public. Like I'm interested to know is this kind of ecoativism? Is it like carrying capacity shit? like what It kind of the other thing that kind of reminds me is like you get like you get this from like Scandinavian racists where they're like they have this line about the welfare state where like the welfare dayay is a fire and you can only have so many people huddled around the fire Yeah. And it's like, o ye. well, it God And we see this like we saw a lot from Mike Lee, right when he was attempting another pathetic excuse for selling off our public lands. L Lee was saying how like so much of our wilderness areas are destroyed by migrants. so we have to destroy them and sell them to protect them. The logic of Mike Lee is unknowable, I'm interested to read that. If anyone feelars anyone's like a library in Ijia get in touch I would I'd love to I'd love to find that out. He speent a great deal of time explaining his hundred million. number and he refers to these people as illegal aliens, right? that He contrasts this with the number of twenty million. He says that comes from pure research and he says that it hasn't changed since the nineteen seventies. What That is not Hey statistic which is played out Pew's published document. I'm looking here at a twenty twenty three paper from Pew The number of unauthorized immigrants in the United States, nineteen ninety, three point five million two thousand eight point six twenty fifteen eleven point zero thanks Obama and up to fourteen million in twenty twenty three He claims it's been twenty since the nineteen seventies. Obviously he's not giving a source here, but he claims Pgh has said that and that's not what I found from Pew He sort of arrived at this hundred million dollars number. First he said he was looking some stuff from investment bank Dare Stearns. I don't know what he was looking at. Why? Yeah, it's very strange. He then goes on to give the only hard statistics he gives he was talking about Charlotte, North Carolina here when they were doing o Operation Charlotte's Web. Estimates indicated that thirty percent or more of commuters were no longer traveling. This means at least thirty percent of them were most likely illegal immigrants. This is based on traffic delays. he's getting the amount of time people spending traffic jets. likeike he's going on Google Maps This is a massive logical leap. He then says That's about a quarter of Chlotte's commuters, thirty percent quarter And this figure, you guessed it, fits perfectly with the total of one hundred million out of four hundred twenty million people in the United States I estimate that one hundred million are illegal immigrants. Same as the observation for children absent from Charlotte schools. More than thirty percent of students were missing These were, of course, illegal children or children of illegal immigrant. The category of illegal children A Fascinating choice of words. Oh God. I'm guessing he's talking about like undocumented kids or kids whose parents are undocumented are separate categories there. but like There are many reasons, I don't think we have to explain this to listeners why some people might not have wanted to be out and about or at school when border patrol are dragging people out of cars and smashing their windows. Yeah, this is an extremely common thing, which is like, yeah, yeah, like not wanting to die. I want to point this out too. like they shot like American citizens, not that it's like worse to shoot an American citen than a non citizen, but like no, but' did that.one Everyone knew that they had done that They did that in Chicago. Yeah. like They did in Chicago. They were going to go do it again in Minneapolis like Yeah. obbviously they shot protesters. They also just shot random people like who they were like, oh, you're non white, fuck you, right? Like it's like that kind of shit. We are peopleople who got in most of the incidents, we've seen that what they have said is a person tried to ram them with their car and most of the times we have seen video evidence, it certainly don't look like that to me No, yeah. Yeah, this idea that thirty percent of students are therefore undocumented people is ludicrous. Yeah They were in Charlotte like middle to late November. it's a time when Americans often travel donon't go to school, right? They have this Thanksgiving thing here And people like to enjoy town with their families. He then goes on to talk about The differences between US and Europe There's a phrase here that I want to read againgain I want you to understand that this is translated twice Uncontrolled immigration to the United States now poses the greatest threat to our culture and our very existence. This goes for you in Europe too Even when we manage to get past these cumbassing bureaucrats and politicians, The grassroots will take care of it for us. The precise tactics for removing those who need to be removed may take different forms in Europe and the United States The grassroots will take care of it for us is between and dashes I don't know if he means grrassroots will vote them out Otherwise that seems like a poggrom, right? Like Yeah, that''s not that's not good. Yeah, yeah, that just seems like an ethnic leansing campaign conducted by I want to deg Lg, but because that's a really scary concept, right? L? Yeah. But also yeah, it's an AI translation that was then translated by you I don't know, I don't know how your French is these days. My French is fine, but like yeah, I forget who said all translation is an act of violence, but yeah, like humans doing translation is an act of violence. AI doing translations is like the fucking future Terminator bullshit where the machines have killed everyone. like Yeah, a lot really is lost in translation In between the Mashes, the French is La Base populire Sain Charter Ponou so Come at me French speakers let me know if you think there's a better translation for that They then goes on to try and like not blame Trump, which is interesting. said, I don't believe Trump has abandoned his campaign promise. I believe that his advisors do not bring him back to reality on the ground. And then skpped a little here. If I had to do it again, I would have brief Tump directly several times rather than relying on this inner circle who might have interests elsewhere Tp is the best person I've ever worked for, I believe he will return to that campaign promise soon Again it's kind of a fashy thing, right? Like it wasn't leader. It wasn't the dear leader. It was people who failed to reflect the dear leaders' thought. Yeah, ye, yeah ye. It's very interesting to see him speaking so clearly this way. L there's two ways he could be going with this. He could be angling for his job back To be clear, right, the reason we don't have nooman befino anymore, in my opinion A ICE and then CBP both murdered U. S. citizens in the plain lightine of day on camera then took to the television to lie about those U. S. citizens in the hours after they murdered them They became too toxic for even the Trump administration to touch. Yeah They were staggeringly unpopular. Everyone fucking hated them Yeah. Yeahah, you literally lost like a old guys with NRA hats at the gun range who I sometimes talk to. Like yeah, fucking again, I can't keep coming back to like they lost fucking Kurt Warner who like is like a quarterback who has never once talked about politics ever and is like like made like a documentary that was like about like his like faith journey, right? And they like ye when when Kurt Warner is being like, hey, what the fuck? Yeah You've lost your le. You're losing the conservative football guys. Yeah, I mean, you shoot a white man on his knees in the street in the back Yeah, while you're beating him up Yeah. That's how you lose Americans. Yeah, That's how you lose Barstool. likeike it's ye hideous. Yeah. he K kind of has two choices, right? Like he can And he can go into the consulting world, he can go into the grifting world Right and just become like a podcast grifter. Welcome to the Club or he can go into politics And I wonder which like he's kind of left two of those pathways open, right? Like he kind of Yeah podcast grifter or politics Well, you can do both now too, I guess. That's true. Yeah CCC the head of the FBI too much It was too much for Dan Boncino. He retired and returned pod f I guess I guess I guess I guess it's like our noble like Health and Human Svices Secretary, the latest shit eating Kennedy or whatever like kid still do that shit, but I yeah, the serial podcast guest I just want to come back to like, We need to reflect on this now, right? Like we're doing primaries for the midterms right now. The Democrats have doubled down on same old shit Almost everywhere across the country. likeike we have seen some better candidates, right? But like I understand that the pathway to a beautiful life is known through the Democratic Party But if they are incapable of seeing that this isn't something that we can reform, if they do what Biden did in twenty twenty, which is like, oh, they just need more money This ratchet will continue to only move in one direction, which is towards the brutalization of more people just on a very basic Lvel. Having a massive institutional apparatus that produces Nazis and gives them the authority to do the thing that the Nazis want to do is not a way that any kind of democracy can survive? Yeah. And that's what we've seen. To paraphrase, we have created an entity which is exempt from the law in order to enforce it. Yeah We canan't keep up with that. and like Now is a moment. I guess it that demands bravery and from the Democrats, I've seen cowardice. and like If they continue to be cowards right now going to go so far down this path there's no coming back Yeah. and I don't fucking know But uh I think that's something we really need to reflect on. Yeah We have twenty thousand of Venos. Yeah who we've given guns and training and authority to. Yeah, and who we've allowed to kill people in our streets and not face accountability, right? Yeah. Like I am not a county attorney appreciator generally, but like it makes me big to see that Hennapin County attorney go after the ice agent Yeah who shot someone through their front door and they lied about it If the liberal democracy can't do any of that kind of stuff, then it's worthless. It doesn't mean anything anymore. Yeah. and and it won't be a democracy after Yeah, yeah, well he det made his own bed to die on. There's examples of this. fucking everywh, right? But like the Biden administration was tragedy is farce of Aende promoting Pinochet. Yeah like that's a thing, that's a thing that he did. He promoted pinochet Right. Like if you don't get rid of the people who want to fucking kill you And you instead give them more power They're going to fucking kill you And like Biden tried they tried pretty hard to retire Bvino because he would talk a lot about the situation at the border and Biden administration, But they didn't. No, they didn't. And then also like they made more of them. Yeah. And also they threw as much money like the money that your kid doesn't get for free meals is because border Patrol has blackhawks, like Yeah That was a heartwarming and inspiring episode of it could happen here I cast about things falling apart. Yeah, but hey, we beat the Nazis once we can do it again. Yeah. and Minneapolis beat these people. That's the other thing, right? Like they won. Yeah came out and they together as a community, they didn't focus on trivial bullshit that divides them They looked out for one another. Border Patrol thought they were in a battle. and if they were in a battle, then they did lose it They surrendered, right? Yeah. And like that's that's also not to say that they'n't still like horrifying shit happening there, right? Like there's still raids going on. Yeah absolutely correct. Yeah. And that like people aren't dealing with as many other ills for capitalism in dist the state as it is today. but like Yeah. they were not able to make those people cower in fear has shown the rest of the country how brave we can be together. and I just don't think we should forget that This is Jenny Garth from I Choose Me with Jenny Garth You know, history is full of surprising little details. And laundry? Turns out, it's got its own fascinating story too Because not all detergents are created equal. Tide liquid laundry detergent isn't just clean, it's boosted clean for cleaner, whiter, brighter, and fresher results compared to tide simply. And those stubborn stains that always seem to show up at the worst times Tide tackles one hundred percent common stains for every load, every time. Now if grease is your nemesis, think food spills, cooking splatters, Tides's got ten times grease fighting ingredients compared to bargain brands And it works in a machine, in any water condition, on all your machine washable fabrics. It's no wonder Tyidee was America's number one detergent in sales last year So if it's gott to be clean, and it's gota be fresh, it's gotta be Tide. Shroop now at your local retailer. TD is a proud sponsor of the Elton John Impact Awards, honoring those who have helped shape a more inclusive and compassionate world with their artistry, advocacy, and unwavering commitment to equality. You won't want to miss the Elton John Impact Awards podcast available on june first on the IHart Radio app and everywhere podcasts are heard How is Ti making banking more human with less bank talk and more real talk ess, your call is important to us and more, how can we help getting more what you want and less of what you don't That's how TDs making banking more human. It's America's two hundred fiftieth, but you deserve some presents too. Simon Malls, mills and premium outlets have C't miss sales july third to fifth. Join Simon Plus, our new rewards program for free and get two point five times the points in addition to extra savings, cashback and offers that also work at shopsimon dot com d Grab the f, head to a Simon center, and make it a day for the books. It's a celebration thing. Sign up today at Simonplus dot comot Rewards program terms apply. See Simonplus dot com for details. The Second World War is the largest event in human history twenty part documentary series with Tom Higs. No part of the globe was untouched, no life unchanged experience the ultimate account of World War II. Every single person had a story. These are the stories that make us who we are Tom Hanks, new episode Monday at eight, part of History Honors two hundred fifty onlyn on the history channel IsSIS O machine reue and Christian Sinis or At first glance, these movements appear to have almost nothing in common One is a transnational but territorially weakened terror network, most active in the two thousands and twenty ten s. One was a fringe Japanese doomsday cult from the nineties And one remains a powerful political movement embedded in the heart of the US wlds from Mea and pure this foollow. The ideologies may be irreconcilable, The enemies may be different And their method even may vary from guerlla warfare to political lobbying. They have more in common than meets the eye elome tick it up in here I'm Andrew Sage, Andreas I'm on YouTube I'm joined today by Garrison Davis. Hello Welcome, welcome So my goal is to try and understand these movements through the lens of ideological totalism, which was a specific theoretical framework developed by Robert J. Liffton to identify the outcome of a successful thought reform process characterized by Dennis Turish and Tim Wolfth in onn the Edge as a quote mood of absolute conviction which embeds ideas so deeply in people's heads that they grow inoculated against doubt Ideas cease to be provisional theories about the world and instead become secrered convictions. depends on the wouldood of hled authorities for the validation rather than evidence and cot. Lifton saw the potential for the emergence of ideological totalism within everyone But he noted, quote tootalistic convictions are most likely to occur with those ideologies which are most sweeping in their content and most ambitious or messianic and their claams whether religious, political or scientific The eight criteria that he identified with thought reform millu control, which is the control of communication and information within the environment Mystical manipulation, which is the orchestration of spontaneous events to serve the group's message The demand for purity which divides the world into black and white, good and evil categories The cult of confession. which pushes members to confess past sins and personal feelings to the group The secret science, which elevates the group's dogma to an unquestionable truth load in the language, which is using jaggon or cliches to minimize critical thinking Doctrine over person, which subordinates individual experiences and identity to the group's beliefs And finally the dispenser of existence declaring that only those in the group have the right to exist Now not all of these factors may be at play for each of these specific movements that I would have mentioned We still see the outcome of this ideological totalism in each of these movements to varing extents The systematic erosion of individual autonomy in favor of an unassailable authority. Whether we're speaking about ISIS or Asrikyo or Christian Zionism within the evangelical movement or in any other case We will see how movements replace individual identity with a collective program persona Where loaded language and thought tinating cliches make desscent literally unthinkable where the enemy other is manufactured powerower is concentrated so tightly that the leader or the dogma becomes the only source of truth So the foundation of ideological totalism is the destruction of nuance build a cohesive us and them. They must be clearly defined deffinitionally polarized First comes the categorization where the complexity of human identity is reduced into a single non negotiial trait be it religion or nationality or ideology. And then it comes to humanization, which is stripping the other of human qualities transforming them from a personun into a threat. Imure infidel and obstacle And finally, there's enclosure, which creates social or psychological walls that prevent the us from interacting with them This ensures the only information the group receives is that of the oth's perceived malice In the context of groups like ISIS, the us versus Dam engine is expressed both ideologically and through physical violence. By committing acts of terror, the group forces the rest of the world to recognize their boundary. There's no cross contamination to be added with the infidel w No middle ground either part of their struggle for a global caliphate or you're an enemy to be eradicated Whether you consider yourself a Muslim Why anything else? was Amam meQ cults us vversus them engine operatated through isolation in communes and the severing of external ties The them was defined as the corrupted world or the spiritually dead And the group sought purity and enlightenment So they targeted the individuals existing social networks family, friends, mainstream society labeling them as sources of contamination By cutting off the member from the outside world, the Culton showed that the only reality that existed was the one provided by the leader And with the political religious Christian Zionists, the Us Vversusam engine is built through a historical and eschatological narrative that sees the entire secular wp as enemyist to the apocalyptic ambitions of Christ's reton They are frequently warned to avoid worldly influences, temptations from the devil that might skew them from the righteous path The other in all these cases is successfully stripped of their humanity The destruction of the them becomes a logical necessity for the survival of the U and isolation ensures the group's total control. or an individual's interpretation of reality Interesting how all these various Cultish elements build on or use the techniques written about by like Carl Schmt the F enemy distinction and creating groups like this, you know, you have to choose like a border point to choose the point that determines what we are and what our enemy is. And then in order to keep your group active or like safe, that border has to be moved. it has to always be like like pushing. It can't actually stay. The same point And you see that movement with all these groups, right They have this like millinarianist apocalyptic focus, but they're still like moving towards this like larger enemy population Yeah, I mean, you see it in Like I mentioned, ISIS because erecked this barrier that separates them even from Muslims whoihia, some of their other religious convictions but do not share their political ambitions. Yeah. You see with the evangelical movement which distinguishes themselves from other Christian s this being heretical or not fully committed to you wouldood or haveve gone a street in some way Yeah, I mean, you can see that with the evangelical leaders and like the president picking fights with the literal pope of the Catholic Church Yeah, I mean, the beef between the Catholics and the Protestants go kind of K of far back You supp us at least share this Crypto. or this overarching like religious framework and yet there's still a desire to delineate, to separate, define enemy even within that cohort. And a lot of those like current differences do relate to like military action in the Middle East and what's happening in Palestine spepecifically, and I found that to be an interesting connection as you're talking about, you know, specifically like Christian Zionists and how the situation in the Middle East is extremely important for their apocalyptic worldview. And that is like one of the key differences between between like evangelical Christians and you know, the current stuff like that the Pope is saying which is You're very much opposed to what's happening in the Middle East Yeah, because they they've constructed this very plus aschatological Freewk, which is The next thing that I wanted to get into The language that these movements use helps to control their people. They're controlling people not just through physical barriers, but through psychological barriers If you can control the vocabulary available to a person, how a person understands the meaning of words, how they understand the meaning of their scriptures You can control the range of thoughts they're capable of having You know, that was kind of the point. that and' cliche at this point, It the point that George Owell was mak when the Hady Ministry of Truth in nineteen eighty four You limit even language available so that even desent cannot be fully expressed You don't have to censor anybody because you've already censored their minds You see then even their own creation of like phrases and terms across all these groups, like they come up with specific Turns a phrase that just get repeated. And that just starts like replacing language if it starts filling in the gap of language and communication terminating cliches Exactly, exactly thought to in any cliches and also just a broader cognitive inclusure So in the case of A Shinriikyo, you had the group using this dense pseudo scientific and pseudo religious jargon Blended spirituality. Quantum physics, biology and thoseose who were most elevated in that group were able to wield that language and make themselves sound so sophisticated and elevated and on a higher plane of truth and reality that made it very easy for them to swindle People. within their circle It created a linguistic barrier to entry so that you couldn't participate even in the group's truth. without committing to their incomprehensible dogma. Yeah. And if you don't commit to their incomprehensible dogma, then you just you don't get it. you're going to be an outsider ever. you are not enlightened, you are Outside of the truth And this this is a problem across a lot of a lot of different groups. includluding groups that are not just, you know, apocalyptic or fascist or like religiously based, but They even see versions of this among like the contemporary left. Yeah, which creates like, yeah, thiss like barrier to entry by using certain like phrases or like academic language Yeah, and very idiosyncratic definitions of words that have otherwise common definitions. No, and how much politics is like the subcultural purpose of like maintaining a certain L subgroup, like a social circle versus actually building like mass politics and how Lidiosyncratic Smol like purity of groups with their special language and these like barriers to entry makes it very hard to do larger political organizing that actually goes towards like a working class movement Yeah. Lifton points out that there is a tendency for agological totalism in a lot of movements. as I would have mentioned So it's then we have to be on God for if we want to avoid falling into these traps. And so we look at the example of hamQ in this case, but ISIS also has kind of a total elimination of nuance through polarized, emotionally charged vocabulary Then you have the believer and you have the infidel, which again includes fellow Muslims You have the pure and you have the corrupt Every dynamic, every binary is ver was some You know, youre either with the kind of fit. Oh You had enemy of God to be wiped out. And within the eschetological framework of Christian Zionism, opppposing the apocalyptic informed geopolitical ambitions is tantamount to opposing God's plan You know? It's like, how dare you They use these thoughts inating cliches as you would adventure and things like It is written Yeah. It's in Revolution. You know, it's God's will There's no way to actually challenge their policies or actions in their minds on whether it be humanitarian, legal or logical grounds because It's like you speakaking Greek. I mean, To win something like that is like with God. It's just like attacking their feet And so we also see these movements stripping individuals of their agency for the sake of a transaction The exchange of the self with all its very real vulnerabilities and mortality and limitations higher purpose that is eternal and absolute In the case of Amjenrikyu, the destruction of the self was achieved through the redefinition of morality that used a distorted interpretation of Vajoyana Buddhism placed the master's will above all conventional ethics To follow the master and achieve spiritual evolution, one had to abandon the ego with its moral compass and its human attachment And in its police Omion here offered the merit of absolute obedience I following their leaders's commands even those of mass violence that would expose the wider world to their threats Practitioner believed they were performing a ritual act of spiritual cleansing to become an instrument of a higher cosmic order. You see the same thing with the rise of ISIS, the destruction of the self achieved through the total absorption of the individual into the monolith The individual stripped to their specific context, whatever nationality or background they may have had been reduced to a singular functional component of the struggle being given up poop us. It was compensated with the promise of eternal significance Promise of martydom A fighting and dyining for the caliphate And with that, the individual could bypass the mundane struggles of earthly life. to secure a police in a permanent divine reality political theological sphere of Christian Zionism The destruction of the self has more to do with relinquishing the self's agency and become an instrumentalized for the sake of God's plan by freing Israel's ascends in the Middle East as an essential precursor to the secondecond Cing of Christ and when everything in their power to lobby for uns supportpped The movement disregards the genocidal costs for the reward be the fulfillment of a divine apocalyptic timeline As in all three cases, the follower is convinced of the destruction of this world, as they know it and the destruction of the self within it is not a tragedy. but actually a kind of liberation But all three of these movements have been tragedies for the rest of the world Arm Shin Rikyo deployed chemical weapons in Tokyo's subway system. They killed thirteen people and injured over five thousand eight hundred others. instilled in a long term anxiety for those living in the city that their shared space could be the site of potential terror. A the poo son sitting next to you could be the vessel for a hidden lethal ideology ISIS has forcibly displaced millions, killed tens of thousands, and destroyed ancient heritage sites, all in an effort to erase the other and the Middle East and Africa in particular continued to be scarred by it's violence. Christian Zionist ideology has introduced a variable to the political equation that is immune to reason and negotiation. cannot question its theological justifications Of course, Zionism was not entirely dependent on Christian Zionist support Jewish Cing out stims predated British support, American support, and Christian Zionist support. political cosine that Christian Zionists provide within The Pma suuperpower does aid in the continued support for Palestinian genocide So ideological totalism seeks to eliminate pluralism elliminate shared truth and to literally kill But we should not view the rise of totalizing ideologies as some freak isolated phenomenon because it deprives its strength from the very framework and condition embedded in our existing social structures The mechanisms of milu control, load in the language and other techniques used by cultic tendencies exists in subtle forms within our mainstream institutions. We see the seeds of thor or form in the echo chambers of media ecosystems We see the loading of language in the polarized rhetoric of politics We see the demand for purity in the most aggressive forms of cultural and religious tribalism The extremist can sometimes be the most honest Uninhibited expression the natural endpoint of our world's authoritarian tendencies and subtle lifelong conditioning. home in the classroom, at work in civic life, we are trained in the soft versions of the very deference that totaliz and leaders eventually demand We are conditioned to respect authority without question prioritize the creater good of the institution over individual agency to accept official narratives as the only valid reality So when a leader arrives who promises to replace the complex, messy uncertainty of our political and social reality with the clarity of absolute truth The most conditioned minds naturally find the offer at a seductive. And so this disease caught through social conditioning must be treated by a fundamental reclamation of the individual's capacity for critical thought and autonomy We have to move beyond the mere consumption of information. to the active interrogation of it This means cultivating the ability to recognize the traps of thought reform, the logical fallacies, the loading of the language to recognize when an ideology is attempting to bypass our reason in favor of our emotions. The primary defense against thought reform is the refusal to let any authority Religious political or otherwise becomes secret and beyond question it Yeah, I think that. point that you made towards the end there but the this thing just being The most visible consequence of the contradictions of our current social system is like really important is because yeah, I mean, we're all sorting through The same the same sorts of causes that that produce groups like this or produce people that move into groups like this. And we might sort these out in different ways. in the way that they do it, it's not, it's not fully alien. It's it's just a very visible outward manifestation of the same sorts of internal contradictions. And like fascism feeds on these same things. You can see how much fascism like overlaps with a lot of stuff that you're talking about here.. And it seem kind of like suicidal tendencies, this destruction of the self. right That is that is dealing with those with those same sorts of likeike social tensions and internal contradictions that produce like outbursts of antisocial behavior like this or in some cases like genocidal behavior Yeah. I think it's very much resilient or there's the structure of O will system You know, the stresses, the anxieties, the ps and pressure points And you know, we are all different as individuals And I think that some people respond to these conditions en way is that are very much either self destructive externally destructive or both. I think part of our task in like a general setense. is providing some alternative to this, right? You look at the way the really like on like a global level, like the left has really receded a lot in the past fifty, sixty, seventy years. that that leaves a lot of, you know People are who are trying to look for this for this sort of purpose, right? they're trying to understand the contradictions of the world and there may not be A humanistic option for that, so it gets directed into a much more destructive ways sometimes you can see like what happened in Rjava was like Democratic federalism.' like right they actually did that, right? They They saw what was needed And they did it, and it's directly opposing. This sort of alternative version, which is which is ISIS, which is like super interesting, right But I think we have we have the same problem here. and but we don't really have like a strong a strong like alternative to that, right? a healthy a healthy and growing like working class movement which attempts to actually solve the sort of sort of problems that are in the world that these sorts of other things like feed on, right? They grab on these onto these very, very present problems apply an emotionally soothing response to it even if it is self destrive Yeah, the work of building an alternative and demonstrating it and ensuring people live in it, I think is very, very important I also think that when you consider the fact that the hallmark of totaliz in systems is the elimination of the other and the criminalization of dessent Our antidote, our alternative has to emmbrace has to be committed to diversity of thought and expression And I also think that it has to be Willing to sit with conflict I sit with tensions. Yeah to allow them to andgage with each other without trying to just override it with some For us unity those tensions and conflict are like important. And that is that is how we will like develop our thought and develop our movement forward. You have to, you have to have those tensions. You have to have that that conflict and disagreement, which will, you know, hopefully produce more positive outomes. Yeah. hopefully it's generative conflict and not destructive conflict Yeah I mean, And some conflicts can be generative if we accept that they can't be resolved. Yeah. I think part of what makes some conflicts destructive is this effort to kind of just paint over them with some Kumbaya scense of, oh well'll just We' just unify. like that's not consequential or we'll figure it out or. that's just how it is. I think we Yes we were willing to be uncomfortable with not having the answers I mean never having the answers in some cases There are those who, I think will have the capacity to engage into d radicalization of ideological totalists I don't think I'm among them. And I think that there are others that we can care our outreach towards. Yes. I get irritated sometimes when I see people who believe that the focus of our attention right now as people trying to build an alternative, trying to build a better tomorrow that our focus should be on trying to deradicalize Right wingers The vast majority of people are pololitically unaffiliated, politically uncommitted, apathetic, disengaged And I think that we can do far more If we were to focus on reaching those people and helping those people see the problems with the system and the solutions that we have on offer. than engaging in fruitless debate with Right wing . Yeah, and I think that's actually the most effective form of deradicalization. Exactly, exactly. There is a lot of problems with the sort of like deradicalization framework that emerged in like twenty eighteen to kind of meet the rise of like the al right A lot of it doesn't work, a lot of it can be fruitless But there is like a noble intention behind it. and I think the best way to actually do that is by just providing a healthy alternative. That does appeal to most people. It doesn't it doesn't need to be catered aard someone who's on like the right or like the far right Because in a lot of cases, those people are suffering from the same sorts of problems that the rest of people are. They've just found a false solution for it And so if you're able to provide a better solution, a lot of them will move over. There's really very few that are like fru and tried, like ideologically committed, right? There's some and they're maybe very vocal on the internet That's not actually like most Yeah, and also the internet is at least half bots at this point. so yeah You know, you te someome of those internet discussions with her green as salt in terms of being representative of any population signignificantly But I did have some with regard to outreach For those who may have a special interest in it or maybe have a loved one that they really want to help where they see being immooed in an ideologically totalistic environment For one directly attacking of Putin's core beliefs are going to trigger something called the backfire effect which is where contradictory evidence actually strengthens their conviction becausecause their identity is now fused to their ideology. So an attack on the idea is perceived as a mortal attack on the self Debeating them is not gonna to help. It's better to think of yourself more Thato Eectin force. rather than a correcting. You're a lifeline, Yeah. to gently guide them out of their radical mindset rather than trying to inststruct them out of it. to be reach them out of it when you notice that they are experiencing doubt in their ideas It can be very exciting to try and rush in and show them the way But you don't want to overwhelm them doubt, especially for people immersed in that mindset might literally collapse their entire social and cognitive worldood So your focus, I think, needs to be on providing a safe harbor where their doubts can be expressed freely without judgment or any pressure to immediately betray all that they've have ever known it You also need to consider the conditions that led the person into that situation in the first place. If you know what they were like and what their situation was like prior to indoctrination whereher they had certain relationship issues, financial issues, systemic abuses, traumas Isolation. some kind of unin for meaninal ppose. That can help you contextualize the situation And while you can always fundamentally disagree with their conclusions It's good to recognize the needs that drove them to those conclusions. But in addition to that, you can try to find out what their passions and hobbies were or are outside of that. So they have some kind of psychological landing pad. If they were to escape the environment so they're not without a sense of self they're not floundering for some form of identity These movements and this tendency for ideological totalism derived from hierarchy will not be overcome in one feoull swoop It is a continuous daily struggle within the human mind and the social fabric is a struggle to remain unconditioned by the temptations of certainty to hold on to the messy, the diverse, the complex. create a social foundation of individuals who are capable I seeing That's it for me ore power to all the people Peace This is Jenny Garth from I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. You know, history is full of surprising little details. And laundry? Turns out, it's got its own fascinating story too Because not all detergents are created equal. Tide liquid laundry detergent isn't just clean, it's boosted clean for cleaner, whiter, brighter, and fresher results compared to tide simply. And those stubborn stains that always seem to show up at the worst times Tide tackles one hundred percent common stains for every load, every time. Now if grease is your nemesis, think food spills, cooking splatters, Tides's got ten times grease fighting ingredients compared to bargain brands And it works in a machine, in any water condition, on all your machine washable fabrics. It's no wonder Tyidee was America's number one detergent in sales last year So if it's gott to be clean, and it's gota be fresh, it's gotta be Tide. Shroop now at your local retailer. TD is a proud sponsor of the Elton John Impact Awards, honoring those who have helped shape a more inclusive and compassionate world with their artistry, advocacy, and unwavering commitment to equality. You won't want to miss the Elton John Impact Awards podcast available on june first on the IHart Radio app and everywhere podcasts are heard Patrick loves diding out. Omar loves takeout And Katie, she cooks from scratch Because no two people are the same. so their credit cards shouldn't treat them the same. That's why we made the TD cash credit card. It lets you choose which spend categories earn unlimited three percent cash back, like on dining, groceries, or gas. It's how TD is making banking more human Terms and conditions apply, Ctd dot com slash cash for details It's America's two hundred and fiftieth, but you deserve some presents too. Simon malls, mills and premium outlets have can't miss sales july third to fifth. Join Simon Plus, our new rewards program for free and get two point five times the points in addition to extra savings, cashback, and offers that also work at shopsimon. comot Grab the f, head to a Simon center and make it a day for the books. It's a celebration thing. Sign up today at Simonplus d. comot Rewards program terms apply. seeee Simonplus dot com for details The Second World War is the largest event in human history twenty part documentary series with Tom Higgs. No part of the globe was untouched, No life unchanged experience the ultimate account of World War I. Every single person had a story These are the stories that make us who we are Tom Hanks, new episode Monday at eight, part of History Honors two hundred fifty, onlyn on the History channel When we think of globalization, we often think of trade and late twentieth century technological interconnection and the movement of capital But there was another kind of globalization emerging in the late nineteenth century And that was the globalization of resistance In the closing decades of the eighteen hundreds, a network of ideas, outlaws and revolutionaries would emerge to challenge the empires of the time Welcome to I could happenppen here. I'm Andrew Siege Andreism on YouTube I'm joined again by Garrison Davis. Hello. Welcome again. And in this episode using the research of historian Bandeick Anderson in Chapter five of the Age of Mobilization I want to look at this period in history where the tools of empire appropriated by the very people the emmpire sought to suppress to link anarchist prisoners in Montuiche to intellectuals in Paris to agitators in Cuba, to nationalists into Philippines. Now the story doesn't actually begin in Montreuice Prison in Barcelona, Spain. A narrative begins there Following the june seventh, eighteen ninety six bombing in Cpus Christi Th hundred people were imprisoned in a wave of Spanish state repression Among those caught in the crackdown was Fernando Tarida del Marmol Cuban Co whose background connected him to both Metropol and Cony His imprisonment was a direct consequence of the state's attempt to suppress the Burgein Anarchist movement in Catalonia. They would only end up fewer than the move line thanks to the efforts of the radical international press. Trido was a math teacher, which actually helped him out when he got arrested because a young lieutenant Warden recognized his former teacher and managed to sound the alarm of his incarceration. Torito also happens to be the cousin of a conservative senator who used his influence to ensure Torito's release The Tutor didn't let these privileges cause him to forget his less privileged fellow prisoners because he immediately, upon release went to Paris The city of duality A city that was worth the central capital of colonial power and a premier global hub for political dessent So then Paris to reada gain access to La Revue Blanche, a very popular periodical of the era He'd been a recognized writer from before his imprisonment as he popularly advocated for anarchism without adjectives And he had gotten into a back and forth about Wers's associations and bureaucracy and propaganda of the deed with a certain Gean Grave was another popular French anarchist of the period So in Lavieue Blanche, Toreida published his personal, brutal experience of imprisonment contextualized it as a broader political indictment by connecting the gruesome suppression of dissent in Barcelona to the exact same mechanisms being deployed in the Spanish colonies of Cuba Puerto Rico and the Philippines. Thus he demonstrated that repression in Spanish provinces was not an isolated domestic issue. What a fundamental characteristic of Spanish colonial policy And this narrative was taken up and amplified by the efforts of Philli Fignon and Georges Clementchau Piliignon was an influential art critic and prominent anarchist intellectual who helped frame the struggle against vash repression as a significant moral crisis. He also wrote strongly against French imperialism and revvengist nationalism And Georgees Clementau was a radical journalist and politician. considered a formidable figure in the defense of political prisoners, as he had the capacity to mobilize public opinion around issues of justice and state authority So together these figures helped ensure that the grievances of Tarita and the Spash prisoners were integrated into the global conversation Now historian Benedict Anderson situates these events within the long nineteenth century which had a lot of high profile political violence spepecifically anarchist bombings and targeted assassinations prompted a corresponding escalation in state power through much more stringent legal freeems and surveillance apparatuses Parallel to the rise of anti terror legislation was the emergence of a new structured infrastructure of dissent consists of labour organizations and radical press which served as a vital node in the global network capable of circulating revolutionary ideas and coordinating resistance across borders In addition to the Montreuice affair The Drefus affair would also be amplified by this network The Drefous affair was an incident in French history where in eighteen ninety four Asidident Alfred Drefus was a Jewish captain in the French Army was accused of treason Alleged to have passed sensitive military documents to the German intntelligence serervices The evidence against him was largely based on forged documents and a high degree of anti Semitic prejudice Sdreos was convicted, stripped of his rank and sentenced to life imprisonment on Devil's Island But the radical press began calling this out, especially when evidence sufists suggesting that the actual spy wasas another officer Quin Wallson Ast to Haze the French military H commommand had covered it up pressing evidence, manipulating court proceedings and intimidating witnesses to ensure that Drefus remained convicted The pivotal moment in the affair was the publication of non radical Emil Zoler's open letter Jacuse in the newsaper La Rw in eighteen ninety. Azula used the power of the press to directly challenge the military highigh command After the real culprit was acquitted, the D after his trial began This landed Zola in jail for libel where he eventually got out in a plea deiew But it also earned him the tenuous respect of some critical left wing intellectuals Meanwhile Tida had already left Paris for Belgium. Th London where he made use of his contacts around the world to create a coalition of quote liberals, Freemasons, socialists, anarchists, anti imperialists and anti clericals, quote against the Spanish government and especially against Prime Minister Antonio Canova Del Castillo The conservative, who was the chief architect of the brutal repression of Spanish anarchists socialists and labour activists domestically His aim was to ensure the stability of the Spanish monarchy amidst growing pressures of anarchism of unrest Cl remember By end American aggression On august ninth, eighteen ninety seven The Italian anarchist Michellel Angiolilo assassinated Canoas Anngolilo was a real monarchy hater. He had traveveled to Barcelona under a fak name and was working as a freelance printer when the corpus Christy bomb occurred The city was put under martial law Anak his friends were incarcerated in Manguich After hearing about Hvil being tortured, he fled for Paris, was expelled to Belgium, then moved to London Whit Tida's agitation against the Kanoas regime was at full strength He continued to work as a printer and engaged in activism in London for some time where people asked who would avenge those was tortured and murdered by the Spanish Dep including the recently executed Jose Rizal was a Filipino nationalist. So after hearing this, Angulilo was like, okay And he makes his way back to continent of Europe with a pistol in his pocket In France, he meets Dr. Ramon Batanis, who was a Puerto Rican physician and revolutionary who sought the independence of Puerto Rico. and the dismantleing of Spanish Cimining authority in the Yanteles. He spent his life country hopping helping the sick and fleeing Spanish spies And although he wasn't an anarchist, he was connected with a lot of anarchists. Particularly French and Italian anarchists. through the Heterogenous front against the Spanish state against imperialism and monarchical tyranny. The European anarchists and socialists found a natural ally in the anti colonial movement he was part of As the liberation of Puerto Rico and Cuba would represent a vital blow against the same imperialist structures they were fighting to dismantle in Europe Bitantis claims he redirected the target of Angiolo's planned assassination from the Spanish quQeen regent and an infant son to the prrime mininister Benedate Anderson calls this narrative into question because There doesn't seem to be any corroborating evidence. Anyway A Yulio gets to Madrid He lears and knowvers his location. He stalks him for a bit. And then he shoots him dead with the pistol he brought from London In his trial, Angolo defends himself with reference to Montuich and Cuba in the Philippines and says, quote Canuvers personified in their most repugant forms, religious ferocity, military cruelty, the implacability of the judiciary. tyranny of power brereed of the possessing classes I have Rid spein Europe and the entire world of him. That is why I am no assassin but rather an executioner And. That does go pretty hard. It does go hard. When is this? Is this late eighteen hundreds or the early nineteen hundreds? Late eighteen hundreds. Late eighteen hundreds. okay. Yeah So after his rousing speech, he was then himself executed. Just twenty six years old Now beyond being a symptom of imperial crisis Covis's assassination functioned as an accelerant By removing such a central figure of the political machinery of Spain in the midst of its war against the US, Angolilo's act triggered the volatility that would culminate in the loss of Spien's final Conial possessions In eighteen ninety a The Philippines and Puerto Rico in the hands of the United States Bllets that killed Canovas just kept going Well into the decades to come Now speaking of the Philippines, we can turn out that specific node of the movement network Isabelo deosres was a moderate liberal of his time. someomewhat privileged as a businessmind, publisher and journalist But he wasn't afraid to advocate strongly against Spanish colonial rule and was arrested in connection to the Philippine Revolution of eighteen ninety six as part of a broader oppression against rebels, intellectuals and activists The revolution had begun prematurely after the Spanish authorities discovered their plot And so many of the revolutionaries were imprisoned as a result Now while imprisoned, Isabello had to deal with the death of his wife and was unable to attend her funeral or do anything for their children Naturally, after an experience like that pissed at the colonial injustices that he and his people suffered at the hands of the government and at the hands of the religious orders He demanded political reform and was meted with relocation first to a Barcelona Municeval jail And then to the infamous Montuiche Violence Sin He met several brave anarchists who had been imprisoned for various crimes. Crimes included advocating for Cuban independence. were tested in trials by military courts openp in secular schools, Gasp for children which I mean, it was Catholic Sain point in time. Yeah. So that was like the worst thing you could possibly do There were some anarchists who were in jail for assassinations, but I mean, come on. What's a little assascination between friends I mean, yeah, assassination and opening a school, I think is the same level of danger to the state at this point Indeed and these dangerous criminals Done treated A level of Solidarity that really inspired Isabelo. And while in prison, he also got access to anarchist literature and was able to take part in discussions with anarchists where he learned about the rejection of state authority Conial domination and a class hierarchy In this exile period, I don't think he ever became an anarchist And I mean, Les in his life even sued as a senator But he was profoundly influenced by the anarchists and did come to admire them for decades to come. Eventually following the assassination of Canovas under change in government eighteen ninety eight, Isabello was freed He then moved to Madrid and started a forortnightly publication, Filipppinas Aiopa. antnti periodist critique with a particular focus on the gring American emmpire And it's funny because After Spain lost their colonies to the US All of a sudden, public opinion in Spain started to become sympathetic to the Filipino fight It was like, o, now we could start to feel bad for you all You know, the Americans embarrassed us, so now we have some sympathy for your play. And so Isabella criticized America's claim to liberating the Philippines and Cuba as hypocrisy by pointing to the regular occurrence of lychions and racist institutions within the US And he also criticized the Filipino elite for their willingness to collaborate with the new colonial rulers The Philippinine Revolution was basically over by nineteen oh one As a key leader named Emilio Aguinaldo was captured and had to swear allegiance to the US By the way, Akinado would also prove to be a collaborator later in his life as he worked with the Japanese occupiers of the Philippines during World War II So it's a pattern behavor that gu Anyway, so after the end of the Revolution, Isabello decided to finally return to the Philippines to reunite with the six children he had with his first wife, who he hadn't seen in years and to continue the struggle Also, when he was in Spain, he got married Isabellel arrived in Manila with the works of Thomas Aquinas, Voltaa, Pedros of Brdon, Charles Darwin, Karl Marx, Peter Kpotkin, and Ericle Malotester He might have been the first person to bring the works of some of these thinkers to the Philippines And I think we kind of understate that of the draw, I suppose when we talk about the movement of ideas. Indy eenth and twentieth centuries You know, they didn't have the interternet, they didn't have the Anachus library It takes a lot of work. Yeah. Yeah, they didn't have all these accessible means of learning about these ideas So if you didn't happen to know somebody who could bring in that kind of literature for you Well, first of all, you wouldn't even know that literature existed unless somebody told you about it. Yeah. The access to information was severely limited. and so Unfortunately, Isabello brought these ideas to the Philippines and he was the first to do so in his time As we'll soon see, the history of the Philippines could have gotten a slightly different trajectory if he had not brought in that literature learned about those ideas, started engaging and agitating onn that basis based on You know, his experiences, I mean, he ended up in a Spanish prison of all places. So the Spanish emmpire that imprisoned him ended up sowing the seeds for rebellion in the former territory later on. as it happens a not uncommon turn of events actually Indeed Isabella pulls up in Manila and his reputation as an anti imperialist preceded him. He was labeled a dangerous anarchist And it really didn't help that the U.S. President McKinley had literally been shot to death by an anarchist just a month prior. This whole period of time is just while every time that I've done an episode with you about like the late eighteen hundreds to early early nineteen hundreds. it's always stuff like this. It's like yeah an unbelievable collection of happenings like like history really has such a Momentum during this period. likeike it it's unbelievable Yeah, I just I really enjoy drawing those connections. because I mean came to Manila with all these organizational plans He was gonna start a party. He was gonna launch a newspople. But as he pulls up and he realizes he's literally on a list You know, he kind of had to scrap those ideas and pull back a bit And like Lenin's doing the same stuff like in Germany and Russia during the same time. L everyone, everyone like everyone understands the mishop. Yeah, yeah. Everyone knows what has to happen. And this is like before the standardization of passports. Yeah. This is before the global visa system. And so people are literally just moving around Yeah I mean, I always marveled the fact that Eric C Mano Tester was like He was getting active in Egypt At one point he pulled up in Brazil You know, everybody has to come to Brazil eventually He was everywhere Right And these ideas were everywhere too, as a result of the movement of people bringing these books, bringing these ideas getet involved in conversation It also helped, of course that a lot of anarchyists were printmakers Still are, still. Many such cases to Isabelo switched strategies In his words, he took advantage of the ouccasion to put into practice the good ideas that he had learned from the anarchists of Barcelona were imprisoned with him in the infamous fortress of Monduich So he started organizing the working class in Manila. He had the benefit of actually being able to speak the language of the swaths of Wers Manila, because he happened to come from the same region of the fastly linguistically re d for as Philippines that they did. He was from the Ilocos region of the island of Luon. And he natively spoke the Ilokano language like many of the workers that had migrated to Milan Though he was technically part of the intelligence here Isabello had a connection to The rooutes, in onto the people, the streets And so he began by organizing the printers, of course and helping them with their strikes. And from there, the efforts very quickly snowballed far quicker than the elites could have anticipated into a cross industry worker federation called the Union Urea deemocrata foolest of its kind in the entire country The Federation was flexible and loosely structured, which made it quite suited to undertake in various strike actions Beyond demonstrations and strikes, Isabello also incorporated a little local flavour becausecause the Union was also involved in festivals and theater and music events So it was a combination of worker and non worker based organization You get a little bit of everybody involved when you do that rather than strictly focusing on just one plane of struggle and connection Eventually, however, the Americans got their act together and met this movement with surveillance, arrest and trials And though they couldn't legally justify keeping him in jail for very long They did through he is available back into jail for a short period. Now the Wer Federation would eventually collapse, but the ideas remain And those ideas fed directly into various labor organizations Socialist parties and guerilla movements going forward As for Isabellu His second wife, the one he married in Spain, Died And two years later You married again That's an eighteen year old Isabello married and was widowed three times. He actually outlived all of his wives and had a grand total of twenty seven children Jesus Christ Yeah. I have no comments on what kind of father he may have been, but That's just. I mean, yeah, you can kind of assume based on those numbers. But yeah, that is what it is And the fact that he was he was in Spain, got married in Spain, had six children back home who had lost their mother. Yeah. I mean, he wasn't in Spain by choice, right? But yeah You know, he was middle class, so he may have had family back at home taken care of his children But still thats rough. Yeah That is rough. later on in his life Like I mentioned before he got into electoral politics on the municipal level and the Senate level. And he also in his life got to work in religious reform eventually found in the Aglipan church which was the first ever Filipino independent Catholic Christian church. Yeah, I was I was wondering because like you mentioned he brought over Thomas Aquinas. Yeah He was very critical of the religious orders, the Spanish Catholic religious orders, He ended up forming an independent Catholic church, so a Catholic church that is not associated with Rome You said he didn't identify as an anarchist. Did he identify as like a socialist? L what kind of was his like self defined politics like around around this point and like when he started running for office on the municipal level I didn't see how he defined himself. I think he considered himself to be Patriot You know, patriots somebody who is pro Labor I don't know that he assigned himself necessarily the title of socialist or anarchist or liberal or anything like that He has, however, been called the father of the Philippine Labour moveoment and the father of Filipino socialism But what do we take from all of this You know, the emmpire might globalize trade Might globalize capital, might globalize various forms of suppression But it inadvertedly globalizes resistance the same infrastructure that empires use to extend there Reach Across the claim territories is the same infrastructure that radicals can use to fight You know, even prison was used as a site of connection A lital police of oppression became a police people across multiple countries. This is a lesson that I take away from this kind of narrative I've spun here between Cuban, Creole, Fando Torito Puerto Rican Dct. Amon Bitanis The Italian Michelle Angouilo. And the Filipino is a B thanos race is that the globalization was not a one way imposition We could potentially adopt The Empire's tools. to fight back and to network our resistance people who are doing resistance, but on the other side of the political spectrum do this same thing. like the formation of ISIS in Prisons because of how we imprisoned Al Qa memb is of key example of this This is a very common thing. like it turns out very, very often the master's tools actually are used to dismantle the master's house That phrase still has some like, I think, metaphorical uses. But in a sort of like literalist sense I occasionally push back on it. because yeah, it does it does view movement as a one way thing. I has it has like no dialectical analysis And I think part of part of our job is like adapting and moving as empire and capital adaps and moves to the flow of history hundred percent And with that As always, all power to all the people Peace This is Jenny Garth from I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. You know, history is full of surprising little details. And laundry? Turns out, it's got its own fascinating story too Because not all detergents are created equal Tide liquid laundry detergent isn't just clean, it's boosted clean for cleaner, whiter, brighter, and fresher results compared to Tide simply. And those stubborn stains that always seem to show up at the worst times Tide tackles one hundred percent of common stains for every load, every time. Now if Grease is your nemesis, think food spills, cooking splatters, Tidee's got ten times Grease fighting ingredients compared to bargain brands And it works in a machine, in any water condition, on all your machine washable fabrics. 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It's how TD is making banking more human Terms and conditions apply Ctd dot com slash cash for details It's America's two hundred and fiftieth, but you deserve some presents too. Simon malls, mills, and premium outlets have can't miss sales july third to fifth. Join Simon Plus, our new rewards program for free and get two point five times the points in addition to extra savings, cashback and offers that also work at shopsimon dot com dot Grab the fam, head to a Simon center, and make it a day for the books It's a celebration thing. Sign up today at Simonplus dot comot Rewards program terms apppply. See Simonpllus dot com for details. The Second World War is the largest event in human history twenty part documentary series with Tom Higs. No part of the globe was untouched, No life unchanged experience the ultimate account of World War II. Every single person had a story. These are the stories that make us who we are Tom Hanks new episode Monday at eight, part of History Honors two hundred fifty onlyn on the History channel Hello everyone and welcome toake Itappen here. My name is Dan Al Kurd. I'm a researcher and analyst of Arab and Palestinian politics. And today I have with me Andrew Lieever Andrew Lieber is a non resident scholar in the Carnegie Middle East Program and an assistant professor in Tulane University's Department of Political Science and their Middle East and North Africa stududies program His research and teaching focuses on the domestic politics and international relations of the Middle East and North Africa region with a particular focus on Saudi Arabia Andrew, thanks so much for joining us Next to have me So I wanted to have you on today because, well, the war on Iran But also because I think there's been a lot of reporting and some that's not very well sourced in mainstream media, like the New York Times about the GCC states CCC Gulf Cooperation Council, so the Arab Gulf States about their motivations and the actions of the Gulf States during this war, I think that there's been a lot of obuscation for variety of reasons. so I wanted to bring you on giving your expertise to kind of clarify fact from fiction on some of that We're recording may twenty eighth, so maybe people have seen this Trump also recently threatened to bomb Aman. who were acting as mediators initially So yeah, I wanted to go through all the main GCC actors and get your analysis of their behavior during this war, what they want to happen when it's over Sure yeah, happy to do so. I think one thing that has been a little hard for people to follow maybe has been the tendency for US and English language. Media outs is talk about the Gulf states or the GC States or what they want from this conflict. But even heading into this war, there were already key differences among these countries. There was a diplomatic an increasingly potentially a military rift between Saudi Arabia and the neighboring United Arab Emirates. There have been past disputes between different Gulf countries as well. And even though initially the Iran war seemed like it would paper over the cracks in these divisions. in many ways, it's also deepened the divides as different countries have interpreted threats posed by Iran and by Israel and potentially even the United States in different ways t present, we can maybe think of three broad camps within the GCC. So there's Saudi Arabia, the largest by land mass of these countries and to a lesser extent, Kuwait and also Qatar have taken the approach of trying to just get things back to quote unquote normal or like a new normal supporting mediation efforts by other countries like Pakistan and now at least for Qatar, increasingly engaged in direct mediation to try to lock in some kind of agreement that restores flows of energy and other goods in and out of the Strait of Horvz, the key body of water that allows things in and out of the Persian Gulf You in one direction, you've had the United Arab Emirates, which has presented itself as kind of much more hawkish in terms of its willingness to potentially use military force against Iran or to join the United States in a military effort to open the Strait of Hormuz In the past few days, it's been quietly walking back some of those positions, but it has tried to draw a contrast between its more assertive stance towards Iranian actions in the region and Saudi Arabia And then in the direction as discussed, we have the Sultan of O mind, which lean much further in the other direction during the war, being the only country that criticized openly from the start, both the U. S. and Israeli led attacks on Iran and Iran's reprisals on the other side of the Gulf Omani foreign Minister Bakro Bu Saidi went on U. S. television prior to the war to make the case that was the possible ongoing talks between the U. S and Iran could bear fruit. That was unsuccessful as an intervention. but also Omani diplomats at various points have offered much more critical commentary of the United States. But they have likewise kind of walked that back or at least not emphasized it as much in recent weeks, but Clearly, there is a narrative critical of their role that circulates in some parts of DC, which percolated its way up into the president saying, well, if an is not going to cooperate with certain thingsings then you will just bomb them until they do, which you know is not the nicest way to ask for the cooperation of other countries in a sensitive geopolitical issue, but so it goes. Right. We're not the most effective these days, let's say. Yeah, so Thank you for kind of laying that out There are so many questions I have I want to talk about kind of how Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, you've already mentioned differ on this issue, but also like how their differences speak to different visions for the region, especially vis Vis Israel. But also just like before we get to that There's been a lot of reporting about how Saudi Arabia is like secretly really gung homeo about the war, and it is encouraging the Trump administration to be more aggressive. What weight do you put on those reports Yeah, I mean, those have been around since the start of the conflict. I'll preface this by giving a major caveat, which is that every week that goes by, we learn more about what we didn't know earlier in the war. like you know we know now that both the UA and Saudi Arabia have carried out airstrikes on Iran at certain points that they didn't publicize that. But I'm broadly skeptical of accounts that Saudi Arabia and specifically Crown Prince Mohammed bin Sulman advocated for this war, pushed for the war Saudi Arabia and Iran have not always had very great relations, but they nominally reestablished diplomatic ties in twenty twenty three And generally, I think Saudi Arabia's view is they want to keep the geopolitical peace in the surrounding neighborhood because otherwise Saudi Arabia can't get the kind of foreign investment or the kind of economic partnerships it needs to generate economic growth and employ its citizen population, a major political concern And I think even the United Arab Emirates prior to this war was not pushing for it actively. I think these countries also don't want to tell with the possible exception of Obama, don't want to tell President Trump no directly. So my understanding of things is that Everything prior to the war was phrased in a kind of conditional. We would recommend you don't do this, but just you make sure if you just think this is a good idea that you can militarily defeat Iran in a rather quick and decisive fashion. Of course, that banked on the United States' current policymakers having an accurate view of their own capabilities, which seem to be Not a correct assumption But I think that Also during the war, you had kind of a panic in different directions, like a belief that, well, I guess if the United States has gone to war, clearly they they could solve this militarily, right? So I think you had some leaders, especially the United Arab Emirates pushing the United States to like finish the job. donon't leave the conflict in a state where it's very clear that the United States can militarily force Iran to do certain things, but you also haven't kind of secured meaningful concessions from Iran. And that, I think is I guess one thing that unites the GCC states now again, with the possible exception of Oine is Ccern about where they get left if there is any kind of deal. It's very clear that they do not have a seat at a table in terms of these negotiations. And there's certainly a lot of complaints online or in media outlets in the Gulf about that fact, but it doesn't change the reality that these are US Iran negotiations with maybe some consultation with Israel, know, maybe some communication with Saudi Arabia with the UA, but not a ton of consultation of them and Just to be clear, they've paid the brunt of the price here. and Iran has attacked civilian infrastructure and desalination plants and all those things Yeah, no, I mean, Iran calculated, I think, well, we could attack Israel, but most of the rockets and missiles be shot down. Israel's farther away, it's harder to hit them with a larger payload. Whereas you can hit a lot of infrastructure in the Gulf. It's been very clear that Iran targeted not only US military bases, but also civilian infrastructure in an attempt to put a lot of economic pressure on these countries, especially the UAE And even countries that had sought to mediate between the conflict there had been more openly critical of any US military vventurism like Qatar, basically have their entire economy frozen right now because they can get very little of the liquid natural gas they produce in or out. Same thing withuwait, same thing with Bahrain. One interesting maybe unintended consequence of this, though is that some of the Gulf states are doing better than others economically from this Saudi Arabia and the UAE have made up, you know a significant portion of the ground lost from lost oil exports because they can export some oil over land And Oman is exporting about as much oil as before, but at a much higher price, so economically or even doing perhaps better But yeah, these are the countries that have primarily paid the price in direct terms. And then by extension, every country that relies on their energy supplies is also paying the price in terms of higher costs for cooking gas, diesel, fertilizer, and so on Really, this is an American Israeli war, even if the United States kind of holds the final say. But you know recently on social media and in a number of repeated statements, President Trum himself and his administration have talked about the Abraham acccords and normalization with Israel, tying it into possible outcomes for this war. How do you explain that I'm sure aud is familiar with Abrahamccords, but the diplomatic normbalization between the UA, Bahrain and some other countries and Israel back in twenty twenty. I think for President Trump, this is talking about this now is motivated by a sense of you, there's a real loss of face and status by having talked out how he was going to have this decisive victory against Iran and then it being a disaster on every single front. So I think there's now going to be a hunt for like some other kind of quick win that he can show. But I think also the lead up to this war demonstrated that the Abraham Accords as a framework for U. S. policy towards the Middle East was pretty bankrupt in every direction. On the one hand, all of the like ars that the United States was supposed to offer to encourage countries to normalize ties with Israel had effectively already been given out. So if Saudi Arabia was like, here are the concessions that we were going to use in order to encourage you to normalize ties with Israel. We just give those to as long as you promise to invest money in the United States. So that's already been allowed to happen At the same time, the downside for these countries in normalizing ties with Israel is pretty high. There's nothing that Israeli leaders at present can do to guarantee that there won't be another catastrophic and genocidal war against the Palestinian population. That's something that know a Saudi leadership that is dealing with potentially rising unemployment, that other countries dealing with ethnic or sectarian divides within their borders, not something they really want to take on as well And I think that the war has kind of created divergent perceptions of Israel as well. I think for Countries like Saudi Arabia and especially Oman, there's a view of Israel Even for a newer generation of leadership like Mohammed bin Salman, who were not particularly opposed to a greater role for Israel in the region, greater ties with Israel, are just now concerned about Israel as a chaotic and unreliable partner in the region that will throw the security interests of its allies to the wind, at a moment's notice their interpretation of the Abraham accccords is that it did nothing to protect the UA and Bahrain from attacks by Iran or from getting dragged into an Israeli led or partly an Israeli led war In the other direction, however, the UA itself kind of views its ties with Israel as more important than ever. Their view is like, well, this is a region of unreliable actors. Israel has a capable military. even if they don't admit it openly, Israel's the only nuclear armed actor in the region. And Israel did send what's it called the Iron Dome defense technology to the UAE during the conflict On the one hand, I think we're just as we saw during the Biden administration, the Abraham Accords remains this kind of like cargo cult for American foreign policymakers, this idea that we'll just say the Abraham Accords and it willll magically make countries kind of change their foreign policy orientation But I think the Abraham Accords as a UAE Israeli security, economic political alliance in the region is stronger than ever and will continue to be the case into the future But that Saudi Arabia will not participate in the way that the Trump administration assumes. Yeah, I think that Saudi Arabia will continue their policy they've had ever since october seventh, or at least since roughly thereafter of saying like, well, we're not ruling out. We just have some conditions in order to move on that. And then you, I don't think those are unreasonable conditions of making progress towards a Palestinian state, but they are not anything that Netanyahu or even probably any other political coalition that comes to power in Israel is willing to even think about So you know, I don't really see it happening soon. I suppose the thing is Trump is so unpredictable that he could just like lash out and declare that he's going to do something to Saudi Arabia if they don't normalize. But then it's a real question of like, how long is he going to sustain that? And like what does he do if Saudi Arabia or Mohamed binmad himself like snaps back Over this past winter, we saw, for example, as part of that diplomatic rift between the UA and Saudi Arabia, we saw Emirati backed forces in Yemen make gains, a lot of commentary online about like, Ohh Mhamed binul Man is willing to do anything about this. And then ultimately, w ended up the Saudi foreign ministry condemned the UA's role in Yemen and Saudi forces bombed, like an Emirati shipment coming into Yemen. So there's also the potential here as well. Like these are two political systems where power is highly personalized around specific individuals. And so if President Trump decides to go down that route, there's the possibility for this to become a very personalized conflict And I think it's important for listeners to understand connection why the Palestinian issue hold such weight four Gulf leaders You mentioned, for example, ethnic and sectarian divides in particular countries, I'm thinking Bahrain, or you know, rising unemployment and dissent and discontent in places like Saudi Arabia It's because either explicitly or implicitly the Palestinian issue in some parts of the Gulf is connected to people's anti regime sentiment. which, of course, the Iranian regime is very good at stoking and exploiting. And so it's not just that they're worried about regional instability outside their borders. It's also, like you said, there are domestic implications for all of these regimes. Yeah, I think if we want to turn back the clock to like the first Trump administration and even right up to october seventh in places like Saudi Arabia I think there was a belief that you could just suppress people's solidarity with Palestine, or that this was like a dead issue for most Saudi citizens. kind of october seventh showed or changed was that That sentiment had really never gone away as much as it had seemed. And also that there's now an entirely new generation that has seen the atrocities perpetrated in Gaza over the past few years that is now well aware of everything has been done. and this is not something you can hide from people or pretend that it will go away. And it's even harder to do so if people aren't seeing kind of rapid economic gains in their own lives. So it becomes yet another thing that yeah, if you wanted to fault Saudi leaders for kind of weakness in the international stage, if you wanted to fault them for not demonstrating political courage, that could be a cudgel to use against them Inside Saudi Arabia, the one consistent thing over the past five, six, seven years is the complete suppression of talking about the Palestinian issue because political authorities are so worried people start talking about one political issue, maybe they start linking it to other concerns. At the same time, there has been a shift among kind of regime aligned commentators from You know if this were back in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, you would hear them say, well, Saudi Arabia is now a country that acts in its own national interest. That means we don't have to listen to the Palestinian leadership. That's their own concern. Now you hear kind of same tune like different variation where it's like because Saudi Arabia is acting in its own national interest We can decide that we want to act in solidarity with the Palestinian leadership, not just do whatever the West tells us to do. But then this leads into, I think, kind of the polarization among some of the Gulf countries because it's the exact opposite dynamic for the UAE, where the UAE goes the route of presenting itself as closer than ever to the United States, very aware that they can use Saudi skepticism towards Israel as something to attack Saudi Arabia in U. S. commentary and U. S. media markets. then Even if the countries seem to be able to patch these differences up from time to time, it's going to keep driving them apart as well I mean, correct me, if I'm wrong, but during the first Trump administration propaganda around Palestinians emerging from the UAE was extremely vehement, let's say like There was so much rhetoric coming out of UAE like government officials and associated influencers and things like that that was attempting to kind of change the image of the Palestinian to an Arab audience, And even though you're right that they are clinging more than ever to the Abraham Accords, again, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that like they can't do that as much anymore I'm not seeing as much of that kind of rhetoric and kind of anti Palestinian racism that I used to see Yeah, and it used to be that, you know you could walk this like, I don't want to call it a fine line, but you could play this game. I'm more familiar with this in the Saudi case, but the rhetoric would go, off course, Saudi Arabia stands with the Saudi issue, But the Palestinian leadership, they would basically adopt the same tropes we were familiar with the United States. Like the Palestinian leadership would never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity or they would just a direct translation of that Yeah, it's much harder. L you can't get away with that anymore because the pushback online would be incredibly intense And likewise, even from the UAE, we see continued coordination with Israel, but it's interesting how the UAE denies or doesn't confirm certain things. So bombing Iran during the war. The UA Foreign mininistry kind of does a wink wink, nudge nudge. like, look at our policies where we said we would retaliate if we were attacked to draw your own conclusions. Whereas when it comes to Benjamin Netanyahu like visiting the UAE, they're like, abbsolutely not this is false news. It did not happen Yeah. and I think that points to the extent to which especially in Netanyahu has become extremely toxic and hard to separate from that. And that you know even though I don't think the UA is going to be hosting any like major Palestinian solidarity events anytime soon, at the same time, they're not like, you this is not like a warm piece in terms of how they're approaching Israelis either I'm pretty sure the UA even condemned the recent law, like basically allowing executions of the death penalty here. It was specifically defined to basically be Palestinians in the West Bank also condemned Israel's actions in Lebanon as well. So it's become harder to mount the kind of media campaigns against Palestinians. I think you know partly because they backfire and then partly in recognition that like this was done for years and years and then ultimately What distinguishes Saudi Arabia from the UA is not that their citizen publics have different views about the Palestinians, but just that in the UAE you can surveil, coerce and bribe your citizen population so much better than in Saudi Arabia. It's like s's alry to be kind of cross about it, but like the juice just isn't worth the squeeze in terms the Saudi monarchy relative to A at least being in this kind of middle pout where they're maybe not pushing the United States too much for Palestinian statehood, but are like doing at least the bare minimum to keep I guess the idea of a two state solution alive Yeah, and to stay adhering to the A Peace initiative in some capacity What's kind of the takeaway, do you think for all of these countries in the aftermath of this war Do you foresee a change in their positions vis the United States in particular For years and years analysts of the Gulf I'm talking about like these states hedging. and I think in one direction, this war showed that like most of that amounted to just trying to get like more concessions from the United States. L you had a couple European countries show up. You had like Pakistan get involved a little bit. But their strategies for the course of this war still revolved around trying to influence U. S. thinking, frame how they were viewed in the United States. But I do think it is going to trigger changes down the line. Like we saw Saudi Arabia normalizeed ties with Iran F years after the United States failed to intervene after Irani aligned groups attacked Saudi oil fields I think something similar here, where we're going to see developments three or four years down the line that have been cooking in the background as a result of what has happened in twenty twenty six I think we're starting to see some of that now. and it's not going to be like, oh, we're going to get a Chinese military base in the Gulf. It's going to be other things like we're seeing Saudi Arabia try to work with what it uses as the other regional middle powers it can trust and work with. Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan. The UAE, meanwhile, is trying to double or triple down on its direct security ties with Israel. But I think The way these Ghost states are going to react is going to figure out How can we shape the diplomacy around the region? How can we shape our own security in ways that don't rely on the United States, but aren't like how to put it I think in Washington, DC because of the obsession with Chinese influence in the world, there's always this belief of like, oh like if not us, then it will be like the Chinese will be involved. And I think the reality is going to look very different. I don't think China wants to get involved in a security fashion in the Gulf, but there are other countries that have an interest in like some degree of peaceful economic development or some degree of like maximalized security, and that's gonna be the future of these state security relations Well, thank you so much, Andrew. I really appreciate your expertise. I'll link your profile at Carnegie in the show notes, as well as given that we talked about kind of the Palestinian question in In relation to some of these other issues domestically in the Gulf States, I'll also link to some of my own research on this topic. Thank you so much. Thanks happening Is Jenny Garth from I Choose Me with Jenny Garth You know, history is full of surprising little details. And laundry? Turns out, it's got its own fascinating story too Because not all detergents are created equal. Tide liquid laundry detergent isn't just clean, it's boosted clean for cleaner, whiter, brighter, and fresher results compared to tide simply. And those stubborn stains that always seem to show up at the worst times, Tide tackles one hundred percent of common stains for every load, every time. 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That's how TDs making banking more human. It's America's two hundred and fiftieth, but you deserve some presents too. Simon malls, mills, and premium outlets have can't miss sales july third to fifth. Join Simon Plus, our new rewards program for free and get two point five times the points in addition to extra savings, cashback and offers that also work at shopsimon dot com d Grab the fan, head to a Simon center and make it a day for the books. It's a celebration thing. Sign up today at Simonplus d. com rewards program terms apply, see Simonluss. com for details. The Second World War is the largest event in human history twenty partart documentary series with Tom Higgs. No part of the globe was untouched, No life unchanged experience the ultimate account of World War II. Every single person had a story These are the stories that make us who we are. Tom Hanks, new episode Monday at eight, part of History Honors two hundred fifty, onlyn on the history channel Garrison thinks. That's good. That's good. If we were brave, if we new Halloween cu you might not. That's not happening. Howard? This is It could happen here Executive Disorder, our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. Today I'm joined by Mia Wong, James Stout, and Robert Evans. This episode, we're covering the week of june third to June Tenth. James, some small news items to start Yeah, many small things as weeomes. New details have emerged about the Santa Rosa Island fire. If you remember, the fire was started by the Mariner. At firstirst it was reported that the Mariner had started the fire by firing distress flares. It Now appears that the Mariner's engine caught fire, starting to fire. Oh. Then he fired distress flares There's more Okay, how many fires did this guy have involved in his boating? Well, he ran into the island next door a week before. Okay Oh boy. and was towed by Coast Guard to their harbour, where they found that he didn't have a number of items you have to have on a boat for safred equipment reasons. rightight? they pounded his boat For six days until a good Samaritan donated those items He then left the harbour and crashed into the next island. I think that good Samaritan made a mistake. I think we can agree This is not the man now. Yeah. Yeah I think I think doing anything enable this man to re float on the seven seas should not be in the sea. Yeah this guy list to too much Jimmy Buffet. Yeah. Unfortunately, like this seems to be one of those situations he bought the boat for a single dollar. Whpp We generally don't give advice on this podcast, but I will say. You couldn't have said a funny thing it It's not uncommon in Southern California for people to buy boats in order to find a cheaper place to live. Yes, of course. Things like slip fees, registration. peopleeople don't really see things add up. I haveve worked on some old diesel engines on these boats. they're ill straight I'm not a great deal mechanics to begin with, but they're not particularly straightforward And this results in what I think we' have seen here, which is a Delta between confidence and ability on the seeven seeas is This isn't a boat that one should be sending a loone much less so they only bought a couple of years ago for a single American dollar No Unfortunately to destroy a large grove of Tory Pine, which only exists there and here. so yeah, I know be careful that there would be pirates Moving on now. ISIS reported to nineteenth in custody death this year when correctional centers. Georgia ye continuing to set all the worst records A court has vacated the president's hundred thousand dollars H one B visa tax. case is brought by California at O, but it's more than a dozen states that will be impacted by the tax This is a good one Gregory Bvino appears to be eyeing a run at the presidency. Sure. This is interesting. so he launched an ex your website. Yeah, why not? Why f His website Pino twenty twenty eight d. comot The campaign appears to have originated from Jacob Egels Egels is a right where he's kind of Roterone protegey, they break ways Eggls was appeaars to have been charged with methamphetamine possession earlier this year. Oh wow It was Engels who was first posting this House Bavvino twenty twenty eight thing in Bavino's replies and Engels now is listed on Bfino twenty twenty eight dot com Oh God And this House Pino thing, he's just he watched too much game of Thrones, right? That's That's why he's saying that. I think so because I looked into it night that's as far as I can tell, it's him trying to do like a nightly Like we're the new nightly order. I mean, it's it's part of his end' cosplay is how I kind of interpreted it because he clearly is obsessed with the fucking Sutstaffel and they were like a nightly order. and that's I get those vibes from Greg Yeah, like and if you look at the website, right? like you could like he's prominently featured wearing his now infamous Gay coat, trench coat whatever you want to call that L fucking coat. yes. I don't know ifino like Pavino maybe he's just trying to run this as far as it'll go, right? he just lost his job So maybe he's looking for like something new to do. Oh sure Like I'm not sure how serious V Vito is With this, I do think he's definitely trying to continue to, I guess, influence the national discussion, I guess Well, in the internet, I mean, he's hanging out with the fucking u Martin Selner over in Portugal He's hanging out with like straight up like Christchurch mass shooting affiliated Nazis, you know, Yeah. L he's going for it Everyone should just scroll down to the our foundounders section of this website. Okay, hold up. before before we do that, ye, this link has now appeared in our group chat. That is the most Nazi ass like just profiled picture thing I have seen in a long time. It's like a Wolfenstein. Wolfenstein's setting. Yeah, right like. But like in the same way that like they're also clearly aping from like Cunist aesthetics like in a way. Yeah background, the way he's kind of framed is this like weird Yeah, is it kind of West German I say it's like generic propaganda now, which is sort of like a mix of like West German E Germerm or East German like USn. like the use of bread, the use of the olive branches, the sunrays sunr from his body Yeah the Oakle. It's just kind of like generic propaganda House Vavino Min fight It's an AI generated image, right? So it is. Based on the way the text is formed, it does appear to be an AI generated. Looks AI. It's not properly framed, right? The framing on the left and right is thicker than the framing at the top. There is no framing at the bottom, like Zamitar shit Oh my God, no, I think we're all missing something, which is that's right underneath the big propaganda image. tiny texts the words in very tiny texts, almost hidden. Bino knows what America needs America's men. It's not in quotation marks, but no The slogan of the campaign is men fight back Yeah the slogan to House Bavvino, it's a little unclear. Yeah, right, Unclear. Maybe it's Helavino. Maybe he's struggling to make rent having lost his job at the Bil Patrol and this he's sendting up a pack to pay his rent But yeah, incredible wow. our founders section really Oh my go Okay have I have scrolled down to the our Founder section And there is an incredible specimen. The bold national strategy part is really upsetting to me. because he's calling himself the commander and capitalizing the V in the sea in in a very like here's the ways Following the commander's maximum effectiveness in quelling the foreign hordes that have subsumed our nation's cities, both large and small, the American people witnessed what true leadership powered by a warrior mindset actually looks like as the commander endeavored to restore order and national sovereignty. That is one sentence Second sentence, America as a whole has already fallen to the grasps of the foreign global one world hellscape ushered in by Barack Hussein Obama. However, we believe that the commander can not only usher in the Great Restoration of America, but also cement the continuity of a strong and sovereign United States that will last a millennia. a thousand year Rike in other words. And that also was one sentence. That is two sentences that I just read. Yeah. I need to be clear. Yeah the campaign a couple of Gmail addresses they're using here someome really small font teacically right? Yeah very inconsistently. This looks like they had AI lay out his website too But they have one woman on their founderers page and likeone else in size like twenty and she's like sizeize eleven Yeah, like the site will have, you know, images of him or of his post where we can see his name But it refers to him only as the commander. So like there's a post of Greg's where like it's that post that he made at the airport, where he's like pointing at the flight to Newark when he was on his way to Portugal being like, shouldh I just handle it myself And you know, go to Jersey to deal with this And above that is Perhaps I must resolve this personally as a quote. The commander challenging the inertia of the open borders' bureaucracy in response to like it's written Like Greg Bavvino became the overall dictator of America, and this is a history book sixty years later. Like that's the way his website is written Yeah it's incredibly low effort. quite concerning. and he really has a high opinion of himself. I gotta I gott to say that. Yeah. I do wonder how much this is just Engels just writing this like as a fan. Yeah, I wonder how much he had to do with this, but yeah, this does not seem like he had nothing to do with it. I will say that based on my knowledge of Greg Bavvino Yeah, he's shared it on his own social media Great In other news, the months long fight over IC and CBP funding has come to an end in a two hundred and fourteen to two hundred and twelve vote on Tuesday the House has passed a reconciliation bill funding IC and CBP. Yeah, this is the so called Secure America Act, right? It'll give them seventy billion dollars. So if you look at that combined with the big beautiful bill, there's about two hundred forty billion allocated to them in a single year. That doesn't mean they have to spend it all this year, right? The Secure America Act gives them a window up to september thirtieth, twenty twenty nine with no particular allocations for any given year To me, that strikes me as a hedge against funding after the mid terms. I think that's what that's about. Also notable, that Carasson said that they use reconciliation to allow a simple majority in the Senate We went over the details of a previous version of this bill a few weeks ago This money is going to go towards hiring, and arming, new officers, hiring more administrative staff, attorneys. And this is all going to be towards immigration enforcement. as well as the money allocated for acquiring new border technology the one billion dollars of quote unquote security funding for Trump's ballroom was removed from the bill by the Senate last week. Two other short things I want to mention Yesterday, a federal grand jury indicted two people in relation to stop cop city protests and alleged crimes in twenty twenty two and Wednesday morning The FBI raided about seven people in Michigan related to pro Palestine protests at the University of Michigan and protests against University of Michigan officials As of recording, like this just happened a few hours ago and relates to an indictment that was unsealed this morning as well which charges eight people cover this more in detail in the future We're going to do one more quick segment here and then when we return we're going to talk about the programs in Belfast D states related to primary elections In Maine, Graham Platinner has won the Democratic primary with about seventy two percent of the vote. The governor's race is too close to call with the ranked choice voting yet to be tallied, but I'm keeping my eye on the Sanders and Labor backed candidate Troy Jackson who campaigned with Platinner, Jackson is about nine thousand votes behind the pre ranked choice candidate Nar out of Shaw After a week of counting We have more definitive results from the elections in California last week Yeah, which a lot of people are saying is an unforgivable fuckup of democracy that they counted all of the votes and it took them a while But yeah, Garison, please continue and we'll talk about the chaos that is being justified by the fact that this took a while to count. Tom Steyer will not be making it ono the ballot this coming November. No was ninety one percent of the votes counted. Steyer has earned one million nine hundred twenty eight thousand three hundred and eighty one votes twenty two point five percent Republican Steve Hilton, former Fox News host has edged our out by about two hundred thousand votes earning twenty five percent of the vote and advancing to the general election where he will go up against liberal Democrat Javier Visera with twenty seven point nine percent of the vote Katie Porter won just under four hundred thousand votes Karen Bass still leads the LA mayayorll primary with ninety five percent of the votes counted. Bass has nearly three hundred thousand votes running thirty four point three percent Progressive Nithia Raman has moved into second place with twenty nine percent Beating Republican Spencer Pratt with twenty five point five percent So the general election will see Raman go up against Bass Reality TV star Spencer Pratt was up in the early vote But as Ramond started to pull ahead, Trump and others began claiming the election was being stolen from Republicans Prat has insinuated that Raman's lead came from LA's homeless population And Musk wrote that, quote, the level of fraud here is mind blowing Yeah. alsoso homeless people can vote like what? Yeah yeah. provided they are U.S. citizens. like Yeah. Yes, yes.s it's all lies. Yeah. I mean, and a lot of what's even what's being reported in the Washington Post is straight up lies. They just published an article today that includes this line. And again, the theme of the article is like Well, you know, obviously this election wasn't stolen, but the fact that it's taken so long is really a problem. You can't actually blame all these people if they if they think it's suspicious This is not evidence of a rigged election, but it creates fertile ground for conspiracy theories to take root. It didn't help that Raman tearfully conceded last Tuesday, but it's irresponsible for Preatt to intimate on social media She did notolen. She didn't tearfully conceced it. It did not happen. That never happened. The Washington Post lied. like that's just in a post article, that's just a lie by the Washington Post Like an intentional lie, I would Incredible I guess to just go into this so people understand like, you know, like I've written for broadsheet newspapers Sveral people, this is not one person fucking up, right? This is an institutional fuck up. This was a choice Yeah. was a choice to get this wrong. The person whose name is on the byeline wrote that, yes. an editor then edited. a copy editor then edited it and then somebody laid it out for the website. Y And you know this, if you're listening and you work for the post, you know this. Yeah. You know that your editors, your bosses and your colleagues chose to lie. and are choosing to continue to lie and spread lies through their publication. You're aware of this, if you weren't there still Anyway, It know Benny Johson, Timpoolle or Ingram and Sean Hanity alleged that Democrats stole the election And Trump has continued to make claims that the election was rigged, quote Here we go with the very late and massive numbers of mail in ballots. Yeah truthed. Sorry. Yeah, man. it's convenient. Yeah It turtle twenty twenty Trump trruth earlier this week, quote possible for Spencor Pratt to have lost the LA runoffs after the big lead he had Third worldorld nation, unquote. Do you understand what the word nation means No no I don't think. They tw these truhs. I don't think he understands how election works obviously, or he does and he's just saying what he needs to say here Notably on Sunday Trump stormed out of an interview on Met the press when asked if he had any evidence of quote unquote, cheating in California. The election was It was a dirty election. And it's happening again right now in California Thereed evence happening now in California. Right now, it's looking L at what's happening in California It's four d They're doing well again. California. It's No, they're not they're dropping fast because it's a rigged election. Let me tell you It's four days. And they aren't even close coming up That's how they count. You know why they're doing that? Be they're cheating on the election. There's what do have evidence to support? All they have to do is look All you have to do is look. Is he in front of a green screen that depicts a John Dia Tactor and planter? No, they are in Wisconsin in some kind of barn and it's raining outside. in this barn with the John Deere tractor and like haybells. It's an interesting kind of like real world set they have. Yeah, okay. And the focus is very weird like that Yeah. Trump later called vote counting in California, quote unquote, crooked Just like how the press is crooked, quote You're either crooked or you're stupid. You know that these elections are rigged. Your network knows that they're rigged. You were like a third world country.. Your elections are crooked and you're crooked. At least the press is crooked.. So is ABC and CBS and CNN. one sided crooked network. right. Let's call it quit, because I've had Thank you, Darl. Have a good day. mister President, let's please I traveled all the way to Wisconsin God, that's embarrassing. Yeah, justust being mean to him. Be rude, yell at him, callall a fucking liar sccream at him. Stop doing this bullshit Like I'm sorry. I have no sympathy for that. Like people boooted him, dreamed the national anthem at a Kick games. You can fuck do this. Sre him call him a piece of sh like you know You're not getting anything out of just letting him talk. callall him a liar shout over him Y. Sts not pretending Yeah yet Fucking cowards. I'm sorry And Yeahah, M, you're right. I think we should definitely pay attention to the fact that Trump did cause the Kicks to lose that game. Yeah. he did. He did. he did And honestly that's what I like about it because it continues to James Jool streak of House Speaker Mike Johnson was asked about these claims on Monday and said that the vote counting in California, quote unquote stinks to high heaven and that the schemes are so quote unquote diabolical that it's impossible to prove election raggking. The presresident keeps saying that there's election fraud in the California Mays race. is what evidence is there to prove that? You tell me, Manu, they are counting votes weeks after the election. We have entire nations with huge populations Like India that can count their votes in twenty foures. You' saying it's ggged the president? I'm not saying's rigged. I'm saying it stinks to high heaven and everybody knows that. Let's let's let's remove the appearance of impropriety. Let's have What a concept. Let's have votes on an election the day of the election. That's what many states are able to do. I think California is playing around with this. But what evidence is there to prove that there? I don't Some of these efforts are so diabolical and so far upstream it is impossible to prove. But I think everybody knows instinctively something is wrong here. So this is, I think, very clearly a preview of what's to come in theerm election. Yeah, for sure. And they are kind of laying this out here. It's of course, impossible to prove, but we all know that it's wrong Yeah. This is going to be every election for the rest of my life Yeah. But there's going to be anything that happens that does not meet the increasingly fanciful version of reality they have to believe. right? It's not just elections. It's literally any fact that like is inconvenient. There's any storm that shouldn't have happened based on when they think a storm should happen, right? Yeah. This is just life now Yeah, it's necessary to like create the virtual of reality that they're existing in. Yeah We're going to go on break and then discuss the pogroms in Northern Ireland We are back Oo Yeah. On Tuesday, july ninth This is the day before we are recording this, which is important because we don't know how events are going to proceed from here when you're listening to it On june ninth, there were widespread attacks on the homes of non white people in Ireland in what I and many others have described as a poke rom. Massed assailants kicked down doors, forced on white people from their homes, and lit houses and cars on fire. People were being stopped in the streets. I'm going to read a little bit from a report from Henel Oman, who was on the scene reporting on what was going on, quote As a woman from an ethnic minority background looked down from an upstairs window, some of the men rushed the front door and broke it down With the attack thick with smoke from fireworks They attacked the downstairs windows with bricks As they stormed the property, some claim to be quote liberating it Graffiti nearby demanded quote local homes for local people A woman in the crowd said to her friend, quote, There's we girls inside Yeah It is extremely bleak and worrying eents The nominal cause of this program was a video of a stabbing in Belfast that has gone viral on social media, which has been amplified by right wing forces both in Ireland the UK and across the world, probably most famously by Elon Musk. We will touch on that more in a second Before we say anything about the broader context, I think it's important to state two things here. One Ireland and also particularly the factions of Irish politics are going to be getting to here has had racism problems long before any of these events famamously, you know, if you want to look at the most immediate stuff in the recent past Exactly one year ago today in Northern Ireland There was a smaller race riot. There was a smaller scale version of the thing we're seeing here with F. less damage, but still absolutely terrifying effects This very much rhymes with the race riots that we saw in the UK a couple of years ago. Yeah. R L similar similar deal, similar motivation, mobs attacking at that point is more focused on hotels that refugees were believed at. Yeah, like you were saying, me basically the same idea Yeah, these are white mobs. It's also, I think important to note onn top of just the general sort of racism of our society this program iss largely taking place in loyalist neighborhoods. These are places with very, very long standing far right param militaries with very close ties to Be A lot of the people in the streets are you know, sort of parts of old loyalist param militarian criminal networks. these are in many cases believed to be the same networks that, you know are doing shit during the troubles and have been given various forms throughout the occupation of Ireland, And deportation's Belfast notes that leaked emails from police after the twenty twenty five riots They're from the riots themselves. They said, quote is important for you to understand our expectations unless there is an obvious Article II issue We do not expect you to expose yourself to significant unnecessary risk So what that in effect is saying is that this is in effect a standown order if you don't if you think that anything would be even. Let the mobs do what they're gonna do. Yeah, right. And that's just the stuff. this is from the twenty twenty five riots, presumably similar orders went out during these riots. And that's just the stuff that they sent via email. that has that has been leaked out. Please Again, very notably did very, very little while all of this was happening, while people's houses were being burned out while people were being dragged out of their homes These attacks also come after weeks of far right discourse in the UK about the killings of two white men by non white men? Yeah. I mean on the BBC, they are having debates about whether there is a quote, two tiered police system which You know, when I initially saw that, I was confused because yeah, tuture police system has been the way that, you know, like an anti police violence activists have talked about the way the police system functions where there is a way the police functions for white people, which is that it treats them significantly better and then there's the way it works for non white people. The far right has flipped this on his head and is now arguing to an extent that is now s national discourse on the fucking BBC is arguing that there is a two tier police system where non white people are lot off the hook for their crimes and where peopleeople aren't protected by the law This is nonsense. It has been spreading rapidly pushed by far right actors like Tommy Robinson and Of course, Elon Musk. Yeah. Musk specifically has been really pushing this. Yeah. was he was a big figure too in what happened in the UK a bit ago. Yeah. And the twenty twenty five Irish riots too. R was That's exactly right. and he's been nonstop pushing and making posts making claims to the extent of like we need to the only way things will get better is if we keep protesting, you know, this has to be handled like forcefully, yadda yada, L likeike that sort of shit. Like he has been Yeah. he's been Basically devoting as far as I can tell, the week that he is about to have an that he is having his IPO devoting the majority of his time to inciding up a grum Yes, seemems to be Yeah. he retweeted a post from Restore Britain, which is a somehow even further right just Yeah, straight up, effectively fascist party even further right than the already horrifying reform partarty saying, quote Do not make peace with evil, destroy it. Yeah Yeah, there's another one where you' like either you fight back or you die, That's what it comes down to There's been a lot of comparisons between Elon Musk and Radio Rwanda, which is a radio outlet that was broadcastselves for the Rdronis Well, and that's not accurate really. You're referring to RTLM, right? Radio television Libel Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Radi R is a different thing. Oh, sorry, am I like Ri R is a currently existing corporation. So we need to be extremely clear in our terminology. Let me be very clear here because I actually had this buildull up for this RTLM was the radio station that is often accused of helping to coordinate, or some people will just say straight up incited the genocide. It was owned by a guy named Felician Kabuga, who was an extremely wealthy Rwandan man and who was personally very much involved in like wanting to push for the genocide. RTLM regularly called Totsies cockroaches and encouraged people to cut down the tall trees However, there are also good reasons why this is not quite as direct as it seems. Y Till them did not coordinate attacks, they did not plan specific actions And analysis in the modern day has shown that a lot of the worst massacres, in fact, the majority of the worst massacres did not have any direct relation to RTLM. Now RTLM's propaganda and broadcast played a role in the genocide and incited and continued to like escalate the violence, but it's not exactly I would argue it looks like and we also we don't have perfect analysis of what's just happened in Northern Ireland. So maybe this will prove to be wrong. It looks like what Musk is doing has more of a direct caitive effect. Yeah. But that's also not clear to me at the moment. Yeah. Yeah. my estimation so far, but again like this is changing. My estimation so far is that I think it is actually closer to it in that I think I think even if Musk isn't there, something like this happens. S ' I think a lot of this is mobilization through like very local Irish political forces and these sort of unionist networks. But it's also really difficult to say just because all of those networks have been heavily influenced by Musk's in the last two. So it's yeah. I don't know how you want to Yeah, and it's hing off of like A decade of intensifying anti immigrant sentiment across the UK. R, including Ireland and Northern Ireland. Yeah. And this is also something people will point out when you're talking about Rwanda and RTLM, which is that like, well as much blame as you want to give RTLM and some of these other media organizations that unquestionably had some role in motivating and fueling what happened. I mean, the root of the Rwandan genocide comes from the period of colonialism when the Totsies were like a favored group of people within the country, which is what started a lot of these like underlying hatreds, right? is is the way in which the colonial power played these different groups off of each other So anyway, whatever, Yeah This is always the case. It's always going to be deeper than some guy has a media outlet, right? But that doesn't mean the media outlet is not involved in what's Yeah. It's the same in Rwanda, right? Like we had the interahamway, like, right like they existed and they existed distinct from ourTLM, but like the environment that allows those two things to happen. notothing's monocausal. People want to do this in history No, and it's the difficult thing of both it's very important to point out when something like this rhymes with something that happened in a jitocide a million people. And also the more you learn about stuff like this, when people make those comparisons, the more learned people are like, well, that's not quite right. actually is it was a little different you know Yeah, the Genocide Memorial Museum in Kigali is the most moving museum I've to do in my life haveave you have the chance everyone should go We need to do more ambastards on Rwanda, but Anyway Wonderful country The one thing I also want to mention sort of in closing here is that you again, like part of the reason this is happening, part of the reason it's been a lot of you know, these of of these ununist networks Part of the reason it's happening the way that it is that this is a very, very old Wite supremacist project Yeah going back Like through the British occupation of violence, right And a project that's been aligned with like the Randrans were once British in the sense of like Like the you know, this is carrying on the sort of long, imperial British tradition is like Yeah the world, one of the world's largest and most bloody and brut most white supremacist organizations we talked about this in the meeting we were having beforehand, but like Loyalists in Northern Ireland have regularly made a habit of particularly in the seventies and eighties, displaying Rhodesia flags in the nineties, or aptheid South Africa flags. It's very common to find Cfetitive flags like you Yeah Partly as a direct response to the internationalism of Republicanism, they just decided to align with the worst people on the planet.. Yeah, we'll be another episode of Up on this Monday that goes into more detail and we' have more information as it comes out This is again, a rapidly chining situation. There might be more timear Days of this it's possible that the police will crack down harder because there's been some pressure put on them by Basically every government's involved in this We just simply don't know that at this time Yeah, I'd a absolutely horrifying day. Yeah Pretty horrible to see It to immigration in the US now, another country where things are going great So a judge has ruled that Trump administration's broad restrictions on asylum and work permits. These were issued after the shooting of two national guards, people in N DC Unwawful quote from the courourt order here. More than six months ago, the United States Citizenship and Imigration Services enacted a series of policies that threw the lives of countless immigrants living in the United States into indeterminate legal limbo. The agency announced that it would be placing an indefinite pause on the adjudication of immigration benefit requests from individuals from thirty nine African, Asia, Latin America, and Middle Easn countries Since then, individuals from these countries have been categorically barred from receiving final decisions on, among other things, their asylum, work permit, green card and citizenship application and USCIS' hold on adjudications cannot be attributed to anything that these individuals did wrong Rather, it arises solely by the happance of their birth And then I found this interesting in the court documents here In ruling on these motions, the court is reminded of a line often repeated in discussions around immigration policy. If people wish to immigrate to the United States, they ought to follow the law and do things the right way This case serves as a perfect example. of immigrants doing. just that they went on to say The USCAS had used what they called pretextual concerns of national security that mask anti immigrant sentiment forbidden from letting influence its decision making. In legal terms, that means the US CIS's actions are contrary to law arbitrary and capricious There's a fairly like emphatic court response, right This will affect G great deal of people. this hasz left a great deal of people in limbo, right? Most famously, I guess there were people who were at the stage of their naturalization where they take the oath to become American citizens, right? The very final step It is Obviously a formality, you've passed the background checks done the interview, etcera, ccera. But it's still a necessary step without doing it. You do not become a citizen and those people had been delayed. and unable to do that they will be able to proceed with that. Other people will be able to proceed with their process with the caveat that USCIS, if we have reported before in the show, is heavily focused on denaturalization. might be very hard for them to actually make that progress and get USCIS to move on stuff Talking of denaturalization, the DOJ has begun proceedings against seventeen people. These people are either accused or convicted of serious crimes But it seems that in most cases, people have been adjudicated have committed crimes in some cases they plleed guilty to crimes after they naturalized that they were doing before they naturalizeed. And what they are arguing here, the DOJ is arguing is that therefore they lied when they were naturalized because they were asked if they had committed any crimes for which they had not been arrested. So by not confessing to those crimes in their interview, they were therefore lying. They were llying on the form. Yes, on the form or in the interview or both. and therefore that is why they are trying to denaturalize This is a large denaturalization. seventeen people is a lot. A a couple of them also are alleed to have applied for immigration benefits under multiple different identities One that I found particularly interesting is a Catholic priest who abused a minor parishioner. It's just interesting because it's interesting to see them going there. I'll follow these and kind of keep tabs on how these progress, but that they have been ramping up daturalizations. We are beginning to see them kind of reaping the work the USAS has been doing since the Trump administration fundamentally Ted that agency around and pointed it at denaturalization. Meanwhile, a GAO report on immmigration detention in camp East Montana I've never seen it written like Montagna with so I'm guessing it'samp Mont like to like Jo Montaga H up? Yeah Yeah, well like they write it says Montana. So like I don't know it's in Bliss, right? Like it's inside Fort Bliss. So like one would expect to normally like a Spanish style pronunciation given the region Yeah, but maybe they just like fuckking end yeet, I don't know like why they're not anyway. Camp, its name is spelled like the state, not the not the Spanish word for mountain Some of the things detailed in this report are pretty shocking A guard lost a loaded gun People with diabetes and HIV did not receive treatment plans and quote, J O february twentieth, twenty six, IC issed a discrepancy report for a detained non citizen death by use of force in january of twenty twenty six coroners's autopsy found the death to be a homicide due to asphyxia. However, the contractor did not provide use of force and death reports to IC as required. In addition, evidence associated with the incident was missing or destroyed Yeah, like one of their guards strangled someone to death. It appears. Yeah, there's a range of ways someone could be asphyxiated, right? L Yeah. That's true but I'm guessing they' attempted to restrain this person violently and like as we've seen many other times in American history murdered them. Yeah And then evidence of that was destroyed What is allowing this to happen? It's that the contract was solicited using a worldwide expeditionary multiple award contract vehicle. That's dally like a military contract vehicle It allows an experienced pool of military contractors to apply for the contract They probably did it like this to expedite the awarding implementation, right? Like Camp East Montanao is a soft side of facility on Fort Blace. I've talked about it before here. Soft side of facility means tense, right? It means keeping hundreds of people in tense They hired a contractor who had no experience using what's called a lowest price technically acceptable evaluation approach So they like filter out people who can't do the requirements that they have for the contract and then they Look at which of the ones that does meet the requirements has a lowest price, right This has resulted very clearly in them contracting someone who's completely incapable of managing a facility like this. And even among ice facilities, this one appears to be Cly heinous And this has resulted in very, very predictable and easily foreseen human tragedies, right They are capable of doing better than this. The coitions were very bad at bliss for Afghan people, Ray who came here after the withdrawal from Afghanistan. I wrote about that for the nation. You can look it up. I interviewed someone who was there. But this is even worse. Rather than learning from that they've just gone deeper. This has resulted in at least one person being killed. It's pretty horrific Let's go on break and then we will return for some stories about trans healthcare and war with Iran. All right, we are back I have a sort of hodgepodge collection of stories related to trans healthcare and trans rights to the United States that I'm going to go kind of sequentially and some of them tie together. but let's start with the trans military ban We an update on this A federal appeals court has at least temporarily blocked the Pentagon from expelling transgender members of the military though trans people may be barred from enlisting So this is kind of sort of like a newew form of don't ask, don't tell in a way of you can get in if you're not trans, but once you're in and you are trans, there's no legal grounds to remove you from the military This was a to one ruling that found Higseth's anti trans policy was quote, driven by the bare desire to harm a politically unpopular group, and quote B arbitrary and based on animus. For those reasons, the policy violates the plaintiff appelle' constitutional right to equal protection of the law unote The last bit is very important, like the equal prrotection clause in cases like this is going to be the main thing that trans people are able to rely on Circuit judge Robert Wilkins, an Obama appointee wrote that the Trump admin claimed their anti trans policy is solely about whether the military can disqualify people from service due to a mental health condition like gender dysphoria Judge Wilkins wrote quote But the record shows that the purpose of the Higgs Seth policy is to target applicants and service members who express what the administration believes is a quote unquote false gender identity and the policy goes far beyond disqualifying persons currently or recently suffering from gender dysphoria someome of those disqualifications are completely unexplained and have no reasonable justification unquote. Hagseh almost immediately announced he is appealing to the Supreme Court. Oh boy We will see where this goes. Yeah. Last month, the DOJ announced a settlement with the Texas Children's Hospital as part of an ongoing national investigation into violations of federal law for providing gender affirming care to minors Texas Children's Hospital has entered into agreements with both the DOJ and the Texas A attorney General, Ken Paxton includes a commitment to not perform quote unquote sex rejecting procedures on minors which the DOJ says includes puberty blockers and cross sex hormones This is a new term that they're really, really rolling out. It's sex rejecting procedures. you're gonna see this a lot more in these next few weeks to months. Yeah The hospital in Texas also agreed to pay over ten million dollars in damages and civil penalties to quote resolve allegations that it submitted false billings to public and private payers to secure insurance coverage for pediatric sex rejecting procedures. The department alleges this conduct violated the Federal Food Drug and Cosmetic Act the False Claims Act and federal fraud and conspiracy laws un quote. So they're saying that by billing insurance with our public or private for quotequote, sex rejecting procedures trans healthcare that this was an act of fraud. Now, this is a settlement. and at the end of the settlement, they do note that these are just allegations that these have not actually been proven, liabities not been proven in a court These are the allegations that resulted in the settlement As a part of the settlement, the Children's Hospital will also open the first ever quote unquote detrition clinic