Geofence Warrants and Digital Privacy

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Today, we have more incentives for market solutions than ever and emissions are rising. On this season of drilled Carbon Cowboys, the story of three market solutions colliding in one multinational boondogle. You credit. They're Republics. They don't get now. Listen on the IiHart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions Hey everyone, it's me, James. I wanted to flag before you start listening today that if you're listening With the advertisement, which you probably are about six minutes in There is a mistake. I'm sure it was just like a misspeaking, but a unionist, of course, in the Irish context is someone who wants the union of What is today Northern Ireland with the United Kingdom to continue It is not someone who wants the Union of Northern Ireland with the Republic of Ireland in an independent Irish Republic void of any British rule I wanted to flag that that We could maybe draw a difference between loynists or unionist, but the important thing here is that a Unionist in the Irish context is not a Republican. Hi everyone and welcome to the show. It's me James today and I'm very lucky to be joined by Ea Yube, who's a UK based researcher and journalist with an academic background in memory studies and a particular focus at the moment on the far right. Also the host of the Fire of Eese Townes podcast, which is an excellent podcast. I've been a guest on that one before. Elia, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us. Dara, thanks, thank you for having me. Thanks to be talking And we are talking today about I guess the kind of explosion Explosions are aong word, I think actually because it's more like with the iceberg when you only see the tip of it, you know U The more visible acts of bigotry that we saw in Belfast a couple of weeks back and the response throughout the UK and I guess also the discourse around it Online, which you know, a lot of online discourse is generated by Americans in America. It ends up being divorced from context because of that. Yeah. So I guess to begin with, right? like I know I'm personally intimately familiar with the English far right, but Let's maybe distinguish a little bit between the far right in Northern Ireland and the far right in England. and I'm saying England consciously here not the UK I'm wondering if I should pause here to define terms for people Do you think most people haveave an operating analysis I guess we can at least say the whole four nations in one nation kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. So I'll just break it down like Britishness is a national identity. If we talk about the United Kingdom and Great Britain and Northern Ireland, we're talking about England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland There are four nations within that, right? If you want to know what a nation is, you can read Ben Anderson. But I like Linda Colly's analysis of Britishness, which suggested it is Englishness exported. Britishness is essentially an English colonial project that co ops elites into Ireland Wales, and Northern Ireland and by its people within those countries against each other So given that and I've already recommended two academic books, which were fired five minutes in Perhaps you could explain this distinction between Northern Ireland and England as it pertains to the far right So there are similarities in the sense that a lot of this is transnational these days anyway, a lot of it is online based. There are also a lot of reports of England based far right agitators like you know, most notistian T Tomy Robinson and whatnot. Yeah kind of almost visiting Northern Ireland and leaving overnithers kind of dipping their toes in a sense There are similarities there and the dominance of England cannot be are overlooked because it's still kind of like the powerhouse where the capitain of the UK is and just has this over oversized influence right but also three important differences, Northern Ireland I don't know how much we're gonna get into the entire history of it, but has had a different trajectory in terms of the fogite than than England. There is the added sectarian element. There is the added whether you' proor Ireland as a Republic of Ireland or whether you' pro United Kingdom. in UK and Ireland terms, this means a loyalist is someone who wants to remain in the UK And a unionist is someone who wants to work for Ireland to be reunified basically be confusing because the Union and the United Kingdom and whatever. Yeah. So there is that sectarian element. Historically The UK has one of the UK as a British government, one of the ways it has faced what it sees as this nationalist threat by nationational, I mean like Irish nationalist threat, which of course has gowns as well in Northern Ireland particularly but not exclusively among Catholic communities It has essentially armed and de facto armed these paramilitary groups that are today kind of a de facto Mafia Like for me as the Lebanese, there feel similarities with how sectarian elites operate in Lebanon they have carved out parts of the what is essentially the state there in parts of in different areas. They even to some extent, even provide services, you know, stuff like that. Again, not that dissimilar, I would say I would argue from how one Picture that came offf here. And so a lot of the violence that we're seeing today enacted against people of color, is the same sort of gationel that was enacted against just like Catholic working classes not that long ago. And in many ways, that same kind of supremacist ideology has just been kind of transferred from one community against another one to another one, but it doesn't mean that it's completely gone from the sort of like anti Irish and anti Catholic sentiments either. They' safly do it Those things you don't see in England, you know, I mean, not it's just not as commalonent. There are like different dynamics here I guess like especially if you're watching from the outside, right it can't be easy to miss that because like Yes, in England, every year in November, we symbolically burn a Catholic in effigy, right? I say we the English's a tradition. but like the anti Catholic sentiment is not as present as it is It it's a completely different fish Like you talked about L where want to get into history and I do because I think that That's really important, right? Eespecially if we understand Britain is the beginning of the English colonial project and especially Ireland. I guess if we understand just to stick with conceptual clarity, the British Isles and especially the beginning of that colonial project in Ireland and to an extent in Scotland thenen I think it helps with an analysis of this And I think something you'd mentioned, which I really like the idea of is When we talk about sectarianism as like a fixed point, we ignore how we got to sectarianization, right? And I think You're obviously very familiar with the British and the Lebanese contexts. Somet that you talk about is my grandmother actually, who spent a good amount of time in Lebanon that overlaps with these things Perhaps you could explain that to people because I think it's very easy to come, especially the history of Ireland qua island with an S. as it like a preset sectarian kind of situation and that's not really the case. like a process occurred to get us to where we are Oh yeah, I mean, kind of a simple way of explaining it. at least's how I do when I speak to like relatives, you know, is that no one is born like sure they could be born into a Catholic or a Protestant family, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they therefore feel a certain way towards a member of that other community. Yeah. That is a process. And so searization is something that is crucially active, it is ongoing. like it never stops. It cannot stop because it can otherwise like Again, using that simple simple example of like you have a baby that'sorn into a Catholic family and a baby that's born into a Cotist family. If you don't, put them in a certain context that includes this thing that you call sectanism. they won't necessarily develop like hostile feelings towards the other baby. you see what I mean? when they grow up? Yeah, kind of like a simplified way of putting it, but sectarianization, whether in Lebanon, whether in Northern Ireland, whether in Bosnia, whether and then it gets complicated and you have added nuances whenever you add a different context, of course. Yeah. But is something that is active. As in like there are ruling elites that have a certain specific interest in maintaining the status quo in a certain way or in some cases worsening the status quo. and so on It is directly intersected with things like capitalism, like the other types of supremacy You cannot have in a sectarian society if you have like a very strong let's say welfare state where everyone is given the basics, where everyone has access to everything and you don't have these these inequalities and There are lots of case studies and know, studies, I mean of the worse inequality gets, the more likely you are to get like these sectarian intentions So it doesn't come out of nowhere. People aren't just born like that. It's not just something that people are born with They are raised in a certain society. they are sectarianized to view members of a different community in a certain way and also most importantly, Resources are allocated before one is born, often based on where you live, so there's a regionalism to it as well But also like in the case of Northern Ireland and in case of Lebanon for that matter based on sext and so on. Yeah Your understanding of Lebanon perhaps gives you an interesting perspective to like analyze this, right? Because's somewhat more formalized to an extent than that it's not formalized in Ire it very much is like division of resources, allocation of state power, even that is sectariot So like, do you think that helps you Analyze Northern Ireland It does because it's one of the things I always bring up because it takes everyone by surprise when I talk about sectarianism in Lebanon, whichich is that the average person isn't necessarily sectarian. In the sense that the average person doesn't necessarily think in sectarian terms, certainly not like their primary identity. In fact, it's a poll I keep on mentioning. I can send it to if you want, but whenever you've had these pan air polls like across the region of the question would be something along the lines of like, do you primarily see yourself as being, let's say, Muslim Christian Jews, et cetera or as your nation, as your national identity Yeah. And the Lebanese and the Palestinians are often the ones that say they're more likely to say like first Lebanese or Palestinian and then Christian Muslim, etcetera. Yeah. And with Palestinians can maybe more well known story, like there is a cause and so that cause has become the priming identity before even one is a Muslim, one is a Christian so on. Yeah. In Lebanon, it takes people by surprise because Lebanon those who know anything about it is like, what, that's a the sectarian place. That's where you have the the president has to be Christian, the Marini prrime Minister has to be Sonni Muslim and the speaker of Parlient has to be Shia Muslim, which is true. But it doesn't necessarily mean that they like the individual who's the president wakes up today and says, I'm going to act on behalf of Maranites. Yeah. It doesn't work. It's much messier than that And most importantly, my personal beliefs in Lebanon, like I was raised in a Christian Marinite family But if I was an atheist or whatever, it just does not matter as far as the state is concerned, because my legal status as a citizen is one that is a Maranite. Yeah. And so it affects how I vote, it affects how I do certain things, whether certain services I have access to in certain then it's like coohesion specific. And in Northern Ireland, that's kind of the thing that you see Like of course, there is a process by which certain communities are already separated in the sense of like you grew up in a majority Catholic area and you grew up in a Protestant majority area.. And in some cases you may depending on where you live withertain parts of Belfast, you may not know a Protestant and or a Catholic I mean. either upp until a certain age, right before you, you know, you're sixteen, you go to college or whatever it might be. Yeah And those of course reinforce certain certain tendencies, but most importantly, you might be you know, you growrew up in a Protestant family, maybe middle class and whatnot, but you don't share the politics of your neighborhoods. It doesn't necessarily then translate into that affecting the politics of the whole because there's something that's already inbil there that's difficult because it's entrenched now. Yeah. And so it's about something that's entrenched, something that's difficult to change and also something that can't stop at the same time. It has to be both. Yeah, I think it's a very good analysis. like I guess like another example people cite for like I guess the way these things can so rapidly be become entrenched and like they can disappear, they can become less important. Like if we look at the example of forwanda, which is obviously a long way away from both those places. Being toutu Ta frustrates me a lot. the analysis of the Rwandan genocide overlooks the Ti people. but that's another topic, where they suffered some of the worst ravages of the genocide That was such a fixed identity that became the salient identity right? And even if individuals were not buying into that increasingly opposed identities, those identities were what would affect the outcomes of their lives very clearly in nineteen ninety four, right. And That is now less the case In part, the key to maintaining state power became increasing those tensions or exporting those tensions in the case of Rwanda to the Congo, right? And we can talk about how we got there because it wasn't a great process. It isn't a great process. But it's a good analysis point for people, I guess We've spoken about how these identities are so enshrined and how they're codified now Because it's not the case, like you said, that everyone believes in this shit and what we've seen since what happened in Bell first is that The vast majority of people in the UK reject this shit, right? The vast majority of people That's another other thing I do want to harp on. Like when people say, Oh, this is Northern Irish groups in Belfust or whatever. it's a relatively small ort Even a relatively small portion of Protestants, even a relatively small portion of people who have strong loyalist feelings Not all of those people are bigots You know, it is a small relatively small group, as you say, that is now somewhat linked to transnational hate networks But the bulk of people think that that shit is absolutely repugnant, right? So should we talk a little bit about the backlash? because I know you attended a massive protest, right? when also like half a dozen, a dozen fascists showed up to be like escorted out of town again Yeah. so the backlash to the Belfast once, what happened in Belfast May I can give some context. Yeah, yeah So there was an attack by this Sudanese person against this white person. Yeah. And the reason I'm framing it in those terms is because that's how it was portrayed in the media in the sense that the attacker's ethnicity and national origins and whatnot has been front and center of that coverage. And that' it's not like a small detail in the story. It's why it's been linked to the Southampton murder that happened in December and the case like the person the attacker was sentence a few weeks ago, not long before the Belfast program happened. Yeah. The reason these two are linked is media framing. One was in Southampton, was the one in Belfast. There's no connection between those two.. other than the attacker had a specific skin color and the victim had a specific skin color. That's basically it. Yeah. Attacks have happened in between between December and in June that don't fit that framing, don't fit that description and have been kind of left out of the discse of that framing. Yeah. And so it's contributed to this perception that is now Again, I wouldn't say it's the majority of the population, but' like it's this higher percentage of the population that now at least think that there's some problem with immigration and criminality And that is something that doesnt is not borne out by the facts whatsoever. But it's still a dominant perception. It is you tune into to BBC questuestion time on a weekly basis, it's almost certainly going to be front and center of the conversation. And I put conversation may be in quotation here, it's more like ragebating and whatever. Yeah. So what happened in Belfast is as I said, this Sudanese person attacked this white person Initially the media was reporting that a Somali person attacked a white person. So again, it tells you how these framings is inherently racial. They immediately went what they what they thought was the most likely demographic. Yeah In response to that attack, despite the fact that the family of the victim explicitly asked people not to politicize this and that they rejected the politics of hate. Yeah. the same after the South Hampton one for that matter. It made no difference to these far rights fascists and agitators and so on And they basically went on a program throughout parts of Belfast And some, I think twenty plus people were rendered homeless, including like kids and so on. Anyone who's a person in color in Belfast, including a bunch of people who have written about it since reported feeling unsafe that day and you know and arguably probably to this day as well, it hasn't been that long. Some people didn't go to work, some people went back home early, some people asked their white colleagues do I do you know, take their kids to school or you know, walk with them home, you know stuff like that. Yeah. All of that because they felt unsafe and the reason why they felt unsafe, That supp was very obvious that those people who work engngaging in these programs were looking for people of color The response to that is you had this kind of a pretty big reaction from a good chunk of the population in a bunch of different city, including where I live, which is in Brighton in the south of England. Belfast itself also had like a pretty huge mobilization. We saw one in I believe Sheffield and I believe one in Liverpool as well in Glasgow as well, where usually it would be a fairly small number of fascists and far right activists agitators in Brighton. I think there was like two hundred of them versus some four five thousand on the other side. Yeah I'm fairly certain, I can't say this one hundred percent certain, but I'm fairly certain there were more police officers than there were like even for white people there. And Belfast as well, there was a huge reaction. There was even like a pretty huge fundraiser by this collective of women, people of color in that are based in Belfastco called the Anakaca. Women's colloective that as of now, they were aiming to raise a thousand pounds and they've raised two hundred fifty three thousand pounds as of today. Oh wow. Nice to help those who were displaced and those who lost their homes and so on. Yeah. And it was even condemned at the national level, like Belfast the dominant party is actually not like it's in Fin, which is not a loyalist party. So the people who did this act are very much in the minority in terms ofiew and like popular sentiment in Northern Ireland, but even specifically in Belfast. Yeah This didn't stop the Ogoing kind of tensions between maybe we can get into that on the farogight in the UK not include, but especially the UK more broadly between Reform, which as of now is the dominant party on the farite. and this new party that came out of Reform called the Restore UK. Yeah there are fighting with one another. Now Elon Musk has backed the Rupert Lw, the Restore UK guy Yeah because he thinks that that Farage is too woke You know, a lot of different things are happening. It's fucking insane. It is quite insane, yeah. ye. Nigel Farraage if people are familiar a long time bloviating shithe fixture of the UK far, right? Yeah. Many funny clips of Nigel Ferraagej being made to look like a tool Let's talk about this dention, right? because we do have this like And this has been a constant on the UK far right for a long time. I remember the BNP, which was getting on for twenty years ago that like essentially you will have They electoral party that stakes out a position on the right then a movement slash party that seeks electoral legitimacy will outflank them to the right and they will stick that position and have electoral success. And then someone will outflank them to the right That is the process through which British politics has moved to the right. from my entire life, but let's talk about restore. and perform and maybe explain the two categories for people who're not familiar Reform is led by Nigel Farash who' maybe the better known one. He's the one that was like a close Trump associate for a while and he was even friends with Elon Musk until they had like a falling out Um he used to head this party called UKP, the UK Independence partarty, which was very pivotal in the Brexit vote Nigel Farage is definitely an interesting figure for all the wrong reasons in British politics because he started off being K small, like a small fish, not a lot of supporting the polls, not a lot of people knew him But he one thing he did have was like a disproportionate media appearance Cstantly. He would be featured constantly on various shows. BBCQuestion time is the one I just mentioned. Yeah. E when he was not like now he's a member of Parliament, but for the longest time, he was a member of the European Parliament. He wasn't a member of Parliament in the UK And his entire thing was UK, independence, as in what they call independence as in leaving the EU because the UK obviously was already independent. Yeah. And the way they frame this is anti immigration and racism essentially At one point, even they weren't even focusing on like as they currently are on like, you know, people from Africa or people from Afghanistan or whatever. Their hatred was focused on Romanians and Poles and other members from Etern Europe or Central Europe. Yeah. I'm saying this because when Henry Novak was killed and Henry Henry Novak was Polish British, ye they all pretended to suddenly include Polish people in the white category, but that's a very much a recent convenient thing because just a few years ago they were absolutely not doing that. Yeah. Out of reform UK, a lot of reform MPs And councilors are ex stories or ex conservates. So reform has been taking a lot of the conservative votes and even conser their personalities. including most of their high ranking members out of that came out this new relative new party called Restore which Some people would say it's further to the right than reform. What would the way I would describe it is that they're both vying for the far right position in the UK and reform is trying to position itself as the more professional, the more kind of like, you know, we withre the new Tories kind of thing and the Tories fail, but we will be better than them.. Whas store is just like directly like we will just deported millions of ground people. and black people back to where they came from and whatever. like very just straight to The closest thing to the BNP really, historically speaking. Yeah. They don't have a huge percentage from the last I check was like three percent. store UK. But and this is where it gets back to to the media problem in this country again The BBC started one of their coverages off the Belfast programs with a coote by Rupert Low Fach, who is like Again, maybe in terms of parties the sixth or the seventh or the eighth in the UK currently. Yeah. but they have this disproportionate media presence because their position keeps on being framed as like the the default position as if everyone has some concerns. about and put some concerns and quotations aboutb foreigners or immigrants or what have you, you know? Yeah. and they like anchor the debate on the right there. like if the BBC or anyone else is running are like Let's have a debate about the humanity of people who weren't born in the United Kingdom or people who aren't white in the United Kingdom they anchor that debate on on their terms. They get to define the terms. Exactly. Yeah, I think Nick Griffin leg place where I could see this particular tendency starting, right? Like the sort of new I guess Nick Griffin comes out at the national frront, so it's really a continuous justust for people who aren't familiar, like hate groups from the eighties to hate groups in the two thousands is Nick Griffin to here. I think you're right, they are the new analog for that. There's a reason the BNP standounds for British National Party The British Narti Party isn't a fucking accident there. If you look how these guys like to dress up B leake That's how we get here. I guess it is a real problem in the British media, right? Like I know Americans are very familiar with the Charlie Kirk stick and the deebate me stick, but look Britain has been doing that perhaps for even longer. I remember Nick Griffin attending the Oxford Union in two thousand I mean two thousand seven, two thousand eight. and I remember big protest at that time. L Britain has been doing this for a while. and like Most people when it's This hate is so evident if it wasn't Belfast and as it has been in many other places, right reject it. It's not it's not the mainstream British dance. No Hate is somewhat different in the UK. That's the other thing that we should mention, I guess, like You know, then like you say that it's not entirely racialized in the Polish people are otherered from Britishness, otherered from whiteness unless it is useful for them.es. So like I guess what did you see when you participated in this Brighten March? Because what we don't have in the UK as much, right? Like Labor is pretty shit at this. Like ha we haven't had the similar thing on the left h so let's so like Explain how people are going about rejecting this again which is largely in an extra parliamentary process. It is, It is largely an experimentary process Greiton historically has had a different trajectory than other parts of the UK. Yeah Breiton's quiteique. It was the only green MP, for example, was from Greiton. Now it's changed with the green MP kind of taking a lot of the votes from the left because of Labour's rightward shift in the past few years. I mean Labour has always been arguably a right wing project anyway But in the past few years, especially on the stormay has been the past couple of years As today is when he officially resigns, so this also like moment is day. Yeah. Brighton has had this kind of long history of anti fascism. A lot of it has been cultural and s it came out of his music scene and all of that. Yeah. And it hasant like as someone who's like I am a migrant, I am also a person of color and I live in the UK. It was pretty nice to see a mostly because Brighton is mostly white Yeah Like they mostly white city really come out in force against these people who a lot of them, I should say, were not even from Greiton because that's not unusual these days Like they were busted in quite literally in some places. Yeah, but they want to come to where they feel like the migrants are or the liberals Y Yeah ye Yeah ye And people like there were different groups that marched. D Green partarty was among them, but largely it was just like a bunch of unions, am of like student groups, local anti fascist collectives even some religious groups or like multi faith alliance stuff and all of these things which Gitin is pretty good at, I would say, overall. Yeah. And there were these different marchers that end up ended up kind of joining as is, you know, typical in these types of marcha they had like the the Palestine one, the feminist one, you know the LGBTQ one and so on. they were kind of joined in the next to the station, the Viton station where the fascists were were meeting up essentially As I said, there were more coughs than I'm fairly certain of this. there were more coughs than The like flashes that were there. In Balfast it was different because it was the most direct reaction to what happened just a few days prior. Yeah And this was like largely organic in the sense that the Brighten one was like we were planning for this for some time because the fascists had announced it long before even the Belfast program. It just happened to occur after the Barfast program, it was already announced before. Yeah. All that really happened was that they made the announcement. peopleople were already organizing and then A bunch of fascists did a pogram in Belfast and that motivated even more people in Brighton to come out in Grighton if that make sense. Yeah. And we saw similar dynamics in Glasgow and similar dynamics and I believe, as I said, Sheffield in Liverpool and other places like in smaller numbers. Yeah It's important to say that like with the exception of when they did the whole Unite the Kingdom like last year, which was the biggest of its kind. And it was the biggest of its kind for like different reasons. There was even like a very mediatized attack like a few days prior. There was, of course a Charlie Kirk murder just like a few days prior. So it's kind of like it was a perfect storm that brought them all out at the same time. Yeah. That's very, very uncommon. The average protest that they they manage to pull is in the lower hundreds, usually at mostos is like in the lower thousands. Yeah whereereas like, you know, on a Every other month or whatnot, you have a massive pro Palestine protest in London that has like two hundred three hundred five hundred thousand people. Yeah. And that's putting aside pride and that's putting aside all of those other things that happen. Yeah. So they never managed to have enough people on the streets, at least not yet The danger in some sense is that they respondse to those far right marches and in some cases the pograms shows how write word what you might think of like centrist politics has gotten in the UK Like the default is very right wing. Yeah I think the Overton window has moved way to the right in the UK Exactly. evenven though it doesn't necessarily make sense in the sense that like when you poll people, you have a difference between when you ask them, what are like What are the top five problems, whatever of like what the UK is going through. And then immigration is usually in the top five But then like what are the top five things, the top ten things that you are personally struggling with? And immigation is usually never, you know, never in those top ten. Yeah. And so there is a disconnect there. That's why I emphasize so much on the media framing And the centrality of the types of framing that we're seeing has have been seing for some time like in the run up to the to the Brexit vote and since Brexit, like which you know it's going to be ten years now? Fuck ye Yeah, literally, I think in a few days it's going to be ten years since Brexit. Yeah, yeah tablidization, I don't know how you call it of the media in the UK where basically everything is tabloid has not helped to put it mildly. I started one of the article I wrote recently which just I just randomly took a newspaper on the bus. The Mver Which is not even particularly right wing compared to the Daily Mail, for example, or whatever. Yeah. But there was a short story, a very small short story and it was about like a drunken asylum seeker vandalizes memorial or something like that And the headline was Asylum seeeeker Vandalizes Memorial whatever it is. Yeah And then the first sentence was a drunk cap all capital letters, a son. And the story was just a drunk guy who damaged some property H his legal status and origins was is literally irrelevant to the story. It's a guy who's drunk who did something. whichich is not that un common in the UK unfortunately. Yeah ye, that's one of our national past tos. Exactly. If I joke like if anything, it just shows that the guy is well integrated into British culture. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, he's become British. But the editor of that paper and that specificically, they decided adding asylum seeker made this a more sexy story for readers and so on. and that's a very common thing. yeah. As soon as you add asylum seeker or migrant or refugee or whatever these headlines it can drive engagement up on social media, it can attract eyeballs more, because it's rage baiting. and it's becomes such a big problem Yeah, it is like largely a media problem. And I think like That's a really important place to talk about there's this idea again that like this came from Elon Musk, right? And that like Undoubtedly Elon Musk has amplified the very far right in the UK. sure. Undoubtedly, the fact that so many journalists spend so much time on his website changes their perspective of where the debate is at, especially when like a You know, not to be too too much a dick about it, but a lot of journalists don't goside and talk to normal people very much My folks are both in agriculture, rightike when I'm home talking to people who work in that world too. And like it's just not a You've said this people say I saw X on the TV, I saw Y on the TV but like You're just not running into many people who are seeking asylum causing problems, nor is it a major issue in their life? And when there are migrants in their lives, they're people who they cherish, where they're members of their community. No. doesn't get reflected in the media debate. but like This is a longer issue than Elon Musk buying Twitter in the Yoube. ye It's a big fucking problem That is one I think we can't fix Like trying to diversify people's media diet is a challenge. Like as you say in the UK, like Just the way we consume media is different, right? Like you think about like when my dad's driving and he's listening to radio two all the time, right? Like they they will have these debates there. It's different media consumption media diet than people the US. And I wonder like Even if there were just like if there were good outlets that you prefer to read, like especially for people who are not from the UK to understand the debate into more rational anchored in reality terms. It doesn't even have to be like a A left source Link just if they're not distorting most people's lived experience, that's relatively unusual in the UK It is, yeah There's a fascinating program on the VBC that Weirdly enough, given that I do media studies, I actually did not know about until relatively recently But it's called News Watch. I sent you a clip. Yeah a few days ago And it is what it is. it's kind of this program within the BBC, but clearly editorially independent of the BBC that does critical media coverage. And they pointed out that after the Belfast program, a lot of they got a lot of comments from people who were concerned by how the BBC was covering the The Belfast Cired, slash pok and whatever. Yeah. And including the fact that again again, initially people thought they were saying this a Somali person wasn't even the case. Yeah, but immediately racializing these terms and so on And one of the people that came on said that like you know there was an attack in Bolton the day which is out of Manchester just the day after the Belfast program against any mom's house. like a guy just firebombed his house, his kids were inside. Luckily they were unharmed But they could have easily died. Yeah. They made the news, but it's not And if there was even an attack in Peace Haven, which is not far from where I live in october twenty twenty five, against a mosqu there, there were two worshhipppers inside that could have also have died luckily they were okay And again, it's not that it doesn't make the news, it gets reported on, but like that's it. It doesn't then get debated at nauseum, it doesn't get it doesn't become this huge sensational thing that like politicians are asked to opine about or whatever. It's just a thing happened, that's sad. let's move on Whereas if it's a one just all you need is a single story of a non white person attacking a white person and it's like in a particularly good times in terms of like, I don't know, whatever is happening on Twitter or whatever. But again, not just that it's only that it's become this huge amplifier. then you're more likely to see what, you know, what what we've been seeing really That's why I insist on the media frame. It's not the only thing. I mean, you cannot talk about Even if the media was bad, but if like everyone was comfortable and didn't struggle with these income inequalities and precarity and whatnot, then the media Wouldn't be as big of a its salience wouldn't be as relevant, but it's those two things at the same time that is kind of this perfect storm right now Yeah, like people like it's hard times for people Eactly and like the hard times are breing ground for hate. Yes.. And I think like Yeah, that's something we all have to work against, especially in the British context, but also like that's coming here. It's hard times here too. The hatred is always going to find like fertile terrain in those difficult times Even that framing, right? L I was thinking about this the other day, like talking to a colleague in the UK, like All the time, the quote unquote migrant crisis is used as a framing in European politics. And that's something the US right learned from and they created a crisis here, right? It's not a fucking crisis. There is plenty of space in the UK for more people And like these people are like members of our communities and a benefit to all of us The UK should be talking about the bigoty crisis, the racism crisis. We have a pogrum Belfast, We have someone acking in Iam's house, we have Constant constant macro and micro aggressions for people. Yeah including on our state funded media And like that that is The framing I'd like to see It's notort of framing you're going to see from the people who are perpetuating it because it's a profitable strategy to whip up hate like this. Yeah, I mentioned this if like I had a proost justky a few days ago of like This country also has an aging population crisis. It has a job crisis, a lot of those jobs because it's structured, the economy is structured in a way that certain jobs are very difficult for locals to do, like nurse in nursing homes and stuff like that largely because pay is so bad. Yeah. And you have at the same time The media kind of and lots of politicians focusing on this very made up migration, like migrant crisis, as you said. Whas this country is actually struggling with an aging population. In addition to that, the increase in migration since this two thousand four, there's been an increase in migrants. I mean, I'm one of them has not actually brought more crime to the UK. The data is pretty clear on that. like crime has actually been steadily declining in the past couple of decades in this country, including in London, the most diverse city in the UK by far. There's just no there's no c and I know I'm saying this and you know, obviously for like listeners of this I'm kind of like preaching to the choir here. Yeah. It it's just bears repeating that like this is generally entirely made up. Like there is absolutely no correlation between these two, between like just an Nase of people from a certain skin color, whatever and then the covenantance of crime and so there's no correlation between those two And when we talk about one of the big things that the fog right here as in the US and as in a good chunk of the world It's all about you know, save our women and girls, essentially,' how they frame itstly. P huge percentage of the far right people have for for example, two years ago, you also had riots in Belfast Something like a ridiculously high amount of those who were arrested and were later released were since rearrested due to like domestic abuse allegations and sexual harassments and stuff like that, you know? Yeah M such cases. They're not framed as like a civilizational crisis for women and girls because they are the fault. They are the white guys. they are, you know, they don't get spoken off in the same way as the rest of the population in this country. So it's in that sense, maybe it's a more familiar problem for Americanlessness. In that sense you have these similarities there. Yeah, yeah, I think it's a it's a good analogy to draw I wonder then as we wrap up, like you wrote an excellent article on this, which we will link in the show notes. Do you have anything else you want to share with people or resources you'd suggest? It's a little less easy to feel so isolated in the UK, right? which is like a smaller polality. you can normally find people, but just people who are if people are willing to support If people are looking to find like minded folks Yeah in the UK, I would say, I mean, I guess this is a bit everywhere the same thing, but it's going depend on like where you live. Yeah., you know, if other people listening if they happen to be in Giton A, feel free to reach out to me, I like meeting people But like you have these different collectives that are like usually very locally based. I mentioned the Anaka collollective, the womomen's collollective in Belfast. For example, if folks want to support them, they can still do so Maybe I could put it this way. I mean, I moved here ten years ago and then I left to do my PhD in Switzerland, and me and my partner and kid, we moved back here a couple of years ago There are lots of reasons not to be here. There had lots of good reasons not to want to be here and want to be elsewhere. Yeah. But there are also pretty good reasons to be here for me personally, which is that There are lots of different networks, communities that are have been kind of for decades now in some cases that one can join, one can help Again, it's going to be very much like depending on where you live, London's not going to be the same as Manchester as Belfast, as Glasgow and so on and so forth. Yeah. But like that's one of the good things about it. The other thing you mentioned in terms of reading and I write for this webs the one that you're going to laying Shadow Mag without the W in the end. Yeah. And at the end of every article, they have recommendations usually of like what people can do and usually it has to do with either like you read further, but it could also be like support this collective or like you know follow this person or whatever. like just very, very small things. like Yeahah, by no means are we always aiming to fix everything through that, but like that's just small things that people can actually Yeah, I feel more connected maybe if they if they actually live here and they don't feel connected to different communities Or if they ab and then they want to support this course also be like an easy way to do so. Yeah, I think that's a great piece of advice I think is very local, which is good. Like the response to austerity has been people taking care of their community and like that is how we get through this. Yeah Same as ye the poverty the government is deciding that everyone has to live in. L it's the same shit It's the same response. Yeah exactly, exactly, exactly. Well, thank you very much for your time today. That was really good. I think it's insightful I hope to help people. Where can people find you if they'd like to follow you and your work in Brighton, obviously. Yeah. if you're in Brighton your child I do post on Blue skky from time to time. which just say yoube you will find me there And other than that, I have the podcast the Fridays Times. It's been inactive for the past month, but I'm gonna start again soon.. And I have a newsletter called Hntologies that I try and keep active as well in which I talk about some of the stuff we talked about here. with' sometimes more Lebanon stuff and Pakanistan stuff where I'm from but also a lot of western like UK and US stuff and so on. Yeah, yeah, and I think it's great to have those conversations connected. L the struggles are not as distinct as people think. Yeah. ye, thanks. But thank you so much. That was great. Thank you. Thank Hey, I'm Hoda Cotby, host of the podcast, Joy one hundred and one with Hoda Cotme. Okay, if you know me, you know this. I'm always searching for inspiration, for support and useful tools to help maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover all of that together. We're gonna have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating L when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges that she never saw coming. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartum depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Olympic champ Sean Johnson revealed why she had no choice but to be a gymnast. There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me. It's given me a belief that we all have one of those treasures inside of us. We just have to find it. Listen to Joy one hundred one with Hoda Coty on the IHart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts Hey everybody, it's the Jonas Brothers. This week on the podcast, Hey Jonas, we're so excited to be hanging out with Mika Abdala from the hit showow off campus. Congratulations on the massive show and massive success. Got through about episode five. I left the next morning to go meet the guys. came back, was like, cool, let's pick up where we left off and that series had been completed without me. Oh no no. That's like the number one rule of watching some. It's literally cheating. That's craz We talk about what it's been like watching the show become such a massive hit. what's next for season two, and just how close the off campus cast really is. We're genuinely so close. What's the group chat called If you can say if it's allowed to be said on the pod. It's a great question. One of them is off campus Brazil. Okay, love. Shout out Brazil. Shut out Brazil. And then Bys have their own group chat called Deam's Our conversation with Mika Abdalah is out now. Go check it out. Listen to Hey Jonas in the IHart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast S My first guest is Karis Hopin, Shakira, Luke and Iarin. Samita Gy. I'm so excited. on a bouncy bed. You have surprises? M surprises. Welcome to Site three hundred five where the good chat comes to life. What up Ass to my see' myious is seing Set m aante. Oh. You're the only person I know that loves the yellow Starburst. This is Sweet three hundreder five. Listen to Seet three hundreder five with La Pons as part of my G Bura podcast network on the IiHart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. American soccer has exploded. The knockout rounds are here. The US won their group and now every match is winner go home. I'm Tab Bramos. and I'm Tom Boger. On our podcast Inside American Soccer, we'll talk about the real storylines. I'm not worried about Balisic, I'm not worried about Balligan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. And give you the truth about the US National team from inside the program It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarter finals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. Whether you're a lifelong fan or this is your first World Cup, we've got you come Listen Inide American soccer with Tom Bogen and Tab Ramos in the IiHart Radio app, Apple podcast, wherever you get your podcast Welcome to IDappp and hereere a podcast coming to you from what they are calling the fakest economy of all time. I am your host, Mia Wang and with me to discuss Really, truly a stock market that is like a microcosm of all of the unhinged things that are going on in the economy is Friend of the show Vicki Ostarwile who has done many, many, many Many things writers and organizer, reccent author, current author? I'm just an author now, I think. I have two books. an author here. Yeah. Tw two books makes you an author. That's right. Hi, how's it going? How's it going? man? How are you doing today?' This beautiful dream day. Awful. Absolutely terrible. The whole world is on fire both metaphorically and literally. You tried to learn about the economy again, didn't you? This is what happens. You should never look Huge't turn that rock. Don't turn over that rock. Huge mistake. Yeah. I am learning about financial instruments that are so deranged. they make like They make the stuff the two thousand eight financial collapse is based on look normal and stable. Yeah, we're doing great here Having promised a story about the economy is fake, I want to do first what I am calling a bonus horror. Oh, So I love a bonus. This bonus horror. now I think you are one of the people who are supposed uniquely qualified to address this bonus horror. as someone who has recently written a book called The Extended Universe How Disney Killed the movies and took overver the Wld that is about the evils of intellectual property An House also has written about riots and also has written about the transgender. I want to hear your thoughts on o boy. o boy, a DMCA takedown notice filed by the Stonewall In LLC. Aainst a t shirt Sop That was being run by the Canadian trans comics writer, Sophie Labele For shirts that said Stonewall was a riot. So Nicky, what do you think about the phenomenon of trademarking a riot? Happy Pride, first of all, I think it's really important that we celebrate June this year in all the right ways. Yeah, I mean You know, trademarking riot That seems good. likeike you traditing a historical event, copywriting a historical era, you know, patenting human genome. These are all good things. Frankly, I think it's outrageous that anything should be the common property of a community, history and humanity. So I just think it's great when people draw fences around the word stonewall, for example, which, you know, sure, it functions, you know as a you know, as a stand in for an entire historical era for for a crucial moment and indeed for a riot. but What about the people who own the Stonewall Inn? Did you ever think about them and their interests It's like one of those like things where it's like, w, you couldn't have had Stonewall without the police. This like Im m Yeah yeah Yeah, yeah. it's the that's the Pontchus Pll is the good guy in the Jesus story theory, right. You know, like, well, if it weren' for the Roman centurions, you know, who would have who would have sacrificed Jesus? Yeah, no, it's it's bad. I mean, I would love to have a hot take, but I feel like or even a lukewarm one, but that one's really just That's just just a happy happy pride loveove a business gay, you know, I just love a business gay. The feeling I saw seeing that. The only feeling I've had like that recently was discovering that the NC the NCAA was like selling the biometrics data of their athletes to sports gambling companies so the sports gambling companies could set lines. S seemems right which is like I can I emphasize this enough. This is a thing that like Scouts for professional teams have a hard time getting access to like the actual like heights and weights and stuff of I don't know. this is this is mayaybe the worst maybe the worst economy Well that they've that we've had. If you're talking about like sort of some sort of high tech surveillance apparatus that's largely used to prop up a casino I mean, you might be talking about the NCAA, but you might also be talking about the stock market. Yeah. boy, today we are going on what I am colloquially referring to as the KSB roller coaster. Yay, let's go. Oh boy. So So CSB for people who don't know is like the main Korean stock index in the way that like I mean, we kind of have multiple, I don't know. NASDAQ or the SMP five hundred. Yeah, it's like that, basically It's an index. It's the main major index of major Korean stocks. Yeah. and people, longtime listeners of the show may remember that we have talked a bit about what's called the Magnificent seven. which are these seven American tech stocks that make up an absolutely unhinged like percentage of these stock listings, right But the reason I want to talk about Kos be, the South Korean one is because in a lot of ways it's like entire economy and a microcosm Because you know, whereas the US has like seven tech stocks that are like a huge percentage of the market Whooy over half of the fucking index is two companies Yeah. Samsung and SK HyX, which are that's that good. That's that good economy. Yeah. And yeah that's how you know your economy is good and normal. when it's two fucking companies, both of which is like valuations have been spiking massively specifically because of chip production and specifically because of chip production for I guess I have to say the words AI instead of just Do a long an elaborate bit where I simply just call it matrix multiplication over and over again. Yeah Graphics cards. They're doing it it's because graphics cards are so valuable. That's what that's what this is all about Yeah. This is now like half of the main index of like one of the most advanced industrial economies like in human history Right, is fucking making graphics cards for chat bots. South Korea is what the thir the twelfth or thirteenth largest in the entire world. two companies, right? Yeah.s And's good You know, there was a while back to executive disisorder where I was like, spending a decent amount of time tracking CSy going up and down because it has lost ten percent of its value multiple times this year G on huge. That does not happen Like outside of like The Great Recession, right? It's like that kind of shit. That's A really rare thing to happen. This used to happen in the nineteenth century all the time, right? So like what we're looking at in Korea and indeed in the U.S. is like, Stock markets that like what used to be before the Great Depression, before Black Friday, and the intungeion of the SEC to make sure that this wouldn't happen every day And I think like one of the things that, I mean, maybe you're going to get this. I don't want to jump on top of anything, but I think the thing that is really wild about what's going on with a cosee is also I think, again, the connected to sort of the gambling thing is that In the last month, two months, I don't remember exactly when it has happened Korean stocks got added to like Robinhood, right? It got added to like US retail trading Now like retail trading like used to technically be possible before these apps and before we reeddit, you know our Wall Street betets or whatever. But it was hard. have you had to have an agent, you had to like do a thing. and then day trading in the nineties made it a little easier for like middle class people to do. But now like you can do it instantly anywhere And you know, if you remember, I mean, I know you remember Mia, but if the folks at home remember like the game stock stuff, like that cult during the NFT era, you know, the meme stock, the meme it was called meme stocks and how like sort of, you know, this oneit subreddit could like make a stock, you know, quadruple its price overnight or go ten times overnight, right? The thing is what's happening is that the Korean retail market has also exploded So not only are you getting U. S investors, right? Like day traders just like goingo on really weird tips and like pouring millions and millions of US dollars, right? Because like you know, if it used to be hard to trade on the US stock exchange, trading in a foreign stock was basically impossible. Yeah. You just couldn't do it Again, you technically could, but you had to have a lot of money and a lot of connections. Yeah, you had to actually be someone who worked in finance. Yes. Like, you know, like you had to be effectively a professional. Exactly. Or it's like, you know return to the gambling analogy, which is increasingly less and less of an analogy. It's like the equivalence of like It was technically possible to be one of those guys who like played online poker. R Right It was equalent to that where it's like, okay, you can dedicate your entire life. to this one incredibly niche thing Exactly So the opening up and the deregulation of this trade has This is sort of maybe it can be a little hard to grasp, but like The Korean economy is massive, but compared to the U.S economy, it's nothing, right? So when all of the money From when I when a ton of retail money from the US in coordinated fashion, you know, coordinate online on Reddit or whatever in Discord servers can flood into the Korean markets, it can make a huge imagine even smaller, imagine a smaller market, right? Like imagine something that's not worth very much and you get you add the exchange rate in there and you're not getting hit on exchange rate fees, you can really swing the market foreigners could swing the market really easily, right by speculating, which again, used to be a thing that finance operatives did, but it was really risky and it was like a really dodgy thing to do Yeah. But these retail investors don't really care because it's gambling. It's just a gambling app, right? They're gambling on stocks But now theres it has become a huge thing in Korea as well There was just a documentary, I think it was released like yesterday on like Bloomberg about How intense retail buying. So everyone in Korea has like sort of stock mania Right? Like in the documentary, there's like, you know, like a woman at a grocery checkout, like she's working and she's like checking her stock prices and she's like scanning stuff, you know? and like It is not about lower class people shouldn't have access. It's about this means that All the money is being funneled. The reason Korea is important as most of you probably know is because it's where all the chips are made. It is where processors have to be made. It's the only place on Earth where they can really they're in Taiwan, where they can be made. And because of the huge AI boom right? The huge amount of money circulating between three different companies, right, back and forth forever, that every piece AI supply chain. Right? So like , you know, each mineral that goes into it, the people who make a particular like plastic clip that's really hard to make that like fits into the data center. likeike all these companies get identified by, you know, deranged gamblers, you know, And they say like this company and in the Korean stock market, So in the US stock market there's like tickers, you know, like three letters. in the Korean stock market there's like a number Right? So in the Castpeak. So they're like Guys, four two hundred one is this company I'm telling you it makes, you know, the it makes the sort of fiber cables that go in a data center, right? And if that takes off on finance Twitter or in you know Wall Street bets or whatever, they can just swing these companies. And of course, so you've got these US and European investors throwing all their money in. So then Korean people are like, we gott to get in on this because it's all booming. And all of these are just really random companies that make really obscure, they're basically what would have been penny stocks back in the day. Yeah, right and they're getting treated at wild volumes. And it's u It's good, it's good because it's real money that really reflects the value of the Korean economy. And it's not just a bunch of people losing their shirts in a series of complex scams Yeah. There's obviously the sort of like groundsellania of this sort of like It's just a gambling boom, right? On the institutional level, they are also doing things that are I was saying this to Vicky before I startry this so like These might be the most derranged financial instruments I have ever seen. And like I have spent a significant amount of my life studying the two thousand eight financial collapse and these make those instruments look normal Yeah, you described one to me and I literally was stunned in silence because I didn't believe that the thing you had just described was real. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my entire life. Will we come back from these ads Okay, we are back. I have been promising you worst financial idea I have ever seen. Right? So like what we've been talking about thus far has been You know, like our the entire economy now is someone who thinks they got they got a tip on the horses and is putting their life savings in on like fucking, I don't know what what's a horse name? like secretary I don't know Mondays Yeahah, sweet Monday. That in the. I don't know. I stra for the rain. Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah. so but like Here's the thing, right That is comparatively Not that risky. in the sense that when you put the money on the horses, right? there's kind of a limit to how much you can lose. Yeah. Totally. You're putting the money in. You can only lose that much money. If the stuff that the regular people doing are again, like put putting it all on red or just like fucking, I gota tip on the horses What the instusion people are doing I can only describe this shit as Like some of this is also designed to be bought by retail investors, which is just unbelievably insane. Like I can only describe this as the equivalent of It's the market equivalent of Russian Rolette Okay, so on june twenty second, Castby did a thing that it does semi normally which was again, lose ten percent and trigger the circuit breakers. They trigger the circuit breakers like again, like today We were recording this on june twenty sixth, a thing that again is not supposed to happen in normal markets. likeike no, that's panic shit On Monday, it triggered because Korea's like national like financial watchdog. like the guy who ran it was like Okay, maybe maybe it was a mistake for regulators to have approved This thing called leveraged ETFs on a single stock Okay, so to understand how bonkers this is, like that's all gibberish, right? And for once this isn't even a case where the financial people are packaging something simple with a gibberish name. This is ridiculous ETFs are exchange traded funds, and it's supposed to be a mechanism where're like, Okay, there's just one thing you can buy But that one like security, this is like the physical thing you're buying H has like a bunch stocks in it So you could say like, I want to buy all the peanut farmers in America, right? Okay, there's five publicly listed peanut companies. They make an ETF. It's the peanut ETF. you buy it no. you know, and then you just buy that and you ride the whole all five of them together instead of just one. Yeah. The place you might have heard of this is there were a bunch of like supposedly like green ETFs that were supposed to be like this. These are the things you can invest in to save the environment And obviously a lot of that was scams, but also it's one of those things that was bad while it was happening and I and you miss it when it's gone because it was replaced by What I can only describe as what if we did an ETF on destroying the economy? But again, so the purpose of these things, right is that they're supposed to allow you to have one instrument to hold positions on multiple companies It's a basket of companies. Yes. Now now, the last about seven years, right? This is a relatively recent phenomenon. I'm sure people mayaybe had like done something like this before that, but this is a relatively recent phenomenon Somebody had the absolutely horrible idea What if you had ETF That was just one stock. Well, but me, that doesn't make any sense. They're all the same thing. Yeah, right. And I look at this. I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? That likeike what the fuck is it? What the fuck iss a single stock ETF. like that's that's like that's literally it's nonsensical Ranged by the stock Yeah, right, You buy the stock or you buy a future like on the stock, right? If if you're betting the stocks going go up and down, you buy like futures, right This The only way I I don't know. I think Vicky kind of came up with the best way to describe this that I've heard, which is like it's kind it's like getting a parleay out of stock So one of the very formative moments of meia childhood, right? was reading this book by Corey Doctoro, friend of the show, called for the Win, which is about a bunch of gold miners in a video game unionizing there's like a plot, right, But the imagagery of the plot there will just be a chapter that is Corey doctoro explaining to you how the two thousand eight financial collapse happens. And one of the things that he notes that has stuck with me my entire life and I think is genuinely a really important lesson is that if someone comes up to you thing that they say is Heay, you can buy this thing, right You know, or you can place a bet, you can buy a financial instrument. And the way that it works is Multiple things happen. You know, like like several things that are different Yeah happen. right. So for example, it's like if LeBron scores thirty two And Weenby has three blocks. And I beat the point spread by five, right? Yeah, right. Then you get paid out one hundred million dollars, or whatever, right? That and that's sort of extreme example. but that's a parl. That's a sports partl. Yeah's that's a sports Par. Every single time someone is doing that is a scam. one hundred percent is a scam. If you put your money into this, you are lighting it the fuck on fire. Yeah. Now This is effectively what's going on these with these leveraged ETF's, right They're taking like a shit ton of positions at the same time. It's a thing that allows you to like have a bunch of different positions at one time on the same stock This is an asset so dangerous that like, if you look up any definition of these things, Literally the all of the sites will tell you do not hold this thing for longer than one day. Yeah Because if you hold this asset for longer than one day, you will lose all of your money. Like Inest a Pedia, for example, which like it just explains this, right? where they're like Hey, uh, this fucking asset You can be betting on a stock to go up, right? Because of the way it happened, you can lose money On the stock, you are betting to go up going up because it's this like fucking unhinsed set of parlate. It's all these conditionitals on it. So like ye it has to go up within a certain time window or it has to bounce, right? It has to go down, then up or something like that, right? So a bunch of weird conditions. Yeah. And you can lose more money on this than you put in. How's that? Which is insane because because you have to pay out all of the options that you. Right of course. So you can lose more money than you put in. This is. they filed a form of gambling That is actually worse than putting all of your life savings on red. because at least if you put all your life savings on red, you can only lose all of your life savings. You could lose your family's life savings on this shit. Like I think like famously's always good to go into debt to your booking. This is famously It's famously good to get credit from your from your sports gampler.'s that's a famous A famous narrative thing that's good to do. Yeah. And again, to get a sense of how unhinged this market is right now The regulators saying we probably shouldn't have approved people making these for a bunch of the biggest Korean tech stocks caused the market to tank by ten percent justust saying like, Exactly. There's a lot of different angles on this that we we could go into. sorry S is it okay if I switched to like some US stuff as an example for a second fver. amazing. folks were pretty it became pretty clear that Trump was playing the price of oil, right? Mondays. He would be like, we're retaliating against Iran. Fridays, you'd be like peace is here, right? There's just like a really open a that he was making and it worked because it worked, right? It was a classic, like, well, the investors do it, so it works. The price goes up and down, you can play it. That was how war policy has been dictated for most of twenty twenty six, which is great and awesome and really good. But so the thing about the AI stuff is that financial people insist that AI is relatively safe because there's actual capital spending money is being spent, they say, on data centers. And you know, EdZitron, who I know is part of the network has done a lot of reporting on the money's not actually being spent. No, it doesn't actually But bullshit. But so yes, exactly. So So it's all bullshit. these are these bullshit companies at AI. But like one of the things that we're starting to see happen And that Trump really innovated, but that everyone's favorite Nazi, the trillionaire Elon Mus, although he's not trillionire anymore unless he moved out of his space expositions, I think. He managed to do a pump and dump with his own company. Elon Musk did a crypto rug pull at the scale of the world economy. okay W you like, you know, in a way Like, you know Yeah, I'm not gonna hand it to you. You you have to hand it to him, but it's trly one of the craziest scams that like in plainsight that's ever happened. And part of the way this worked, I want to talk about this because it's not just about him being a creepy scammer. It's about the way that this is all being supported by the finance industry, like which is what you're talking about with these instruments. Yeah. So you've got these like really nasty instruments that they're developing to rinse Korean grocers of their you know, of their money, whatever. But you've also got like what happened with the SpaceX IPO is that When something gets listed on the NASDAQ the SMP, when it gets added to these indexes, Everyone holding an index fund has to buy those stocks So it means that like really safe stuff, like You know, a four hundred one K and you're just like, I just put the four hundred one K in S and P five hundred, right? It's just the stock market. I'm buying the whole stock market. Yep. Line goes up, no problem So when Bpacex IPO happened. It listed one hundred sixty, S is that? one hundred sixty? Was it one hundred and sixty nine .o point sixty nine? I don't remember the exact number. I think was it didn't have a meanm price. I don't even rememberking whate. When it listed That was ten days ago, fifteen days ago that the IPO happened. Yeah, something like that. When that when that went public All of the institutional funds had to buy a proportional amount of SpaceX, right? So they had to buy it Be that's just how it works. and that's that's reasonable. That is actually like regulated. It's a reasonable thing So what happened was the price retailers drove it way up, right? Elon still has, you know, with using Twitter, managed to get a bunch of retail investors. this is going to go straight the moon, whatever, whatever So for five days, it goes up to like one ninetine, two hundred do. I think it crosses two hundred at one point, right? And now it is down to one hundred and fifty. So it is ten percent down from where it was ten days ago Why is it ten percent down? Because SpaceX is a valueless company compared to what they're valuating it at. Yeah. SpaceX is fifteen government contracts and a trench coat. Yeah. Like its just not it's not a company that like has any path to profitability. It also doesn't have a path to Mars. But what that means is that Institutional investors created and regulators created a situation where Elon and his buddies pumped and dumped, as you said, they got the price way up They moved out of their position and now Those funds lost their ten percent invest stake in SpaceX. and there's no reason to anticipate that stock going back up It's just like there's no reason for it. It's overvalued as it is, right? So this is how like people who aren't doing retail investing, who are not You know, people who are like, I don't trust the stock market. Yeah. So this is this is the California Pension fund Exactly, exactly. Yeah. so yeah. And like obviously like Trump did that with the Trump coin. L we're like basically like What the lesson learned from the crypto and the NFT explosion. and by the way, Bitcoin is down almost one hundred percent on the year. It's been under sixty thousand for month. Bitcoin is collapsing as a the safe haven asset. If you were heavily invested in Bitcoin, you're ruined right now. if you held for a year. Anyway, what they learned from cryptos and NFTs is, oh, we can just do that in the stock market too, right? Yeah. We can just do it. just we can just play the entire stock market like this. you know, and we can blame it on, you know, I started by talking about the retail investors and that's real. That is driving the volatility. And that's if you're a professional or you're in an industry force, you can just skim the cash off. Now the reason that they need to skim the cash as fast as possible right now Be Two years ago, I think, I came on here to talk about the D we talk about commercial realestate, like the commercial real estate bubble on the show?, I don't remember I don't remember if we actually talked around the show or just, you know, we just texted about it, whatever, tackled about it privately So basically, The private banking sector, sorry the shadow banking, which is now called private capital, private financing, like that sector was facing a collapse two years ago in twenty twenty three as all of their office buildings came to do. basasically. there was this massive expansion of commercial real estate. And the pandemic combined with a cooling economy, like they was in trouble All of that money has now gone into the AI So they staved off this collapse that was supposed to happen in twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four. Yeah. There was even a word for it, which was like the maturity wall, right? Like all these things were going to hit this maturity wall. L everyone was ready for it. So now. Those companies are starting to go down The private equity and the thing about private equity is that it's what if a bank had no regulation Yeah. Private equity has burned all of their money into the AI boom, but it's not just them. If we look at like the huge layoffs in video game companies that are going on right now, right? L all tech investors are taking all of their money out of everything and putting it in AI. Yeah. right? They're going all in on AI. That's why they're so insistent on doing it. Movies can't get made. Like I talked to you know, for my book that I wrote, I've talked to a bunch of movie producers, I have relationships with them They just can't get funding. These are people with huge movies, right? bigig small producers. There's nothing is getting green lit. There is just no capital for anything Yeah except AI The entire economy has put all of its resources into LLMs Yep. Nothing else is getting made The data centers aren't being built And then they developed elaborate ways to ruin Korea by gambling on it Yeah. inccredible economy. It's astounding. It's like's like the entire it's like every rich person on Earth has collectively taken all of humanity's chips and put it on tulip bulbs. You know, I compaare this to the nineteenth century because this is before the SEC What used to happen, joint stock companies used to guys just used to go around the town, right? you know before during the era of the telegram Yeah. Th is the railroads were the most famous example of this. For the eighteen sixties and the eighteen seventies, post civil warar There were like five or six railroad stock crashes. People would just tell you, listen, we're going to make this rail line. It's going to be awesome. okay? Rails are the future. It's so high tech, you know get it on the ground floor. and then there would be massive economic collapses I knew. wild insecurity was driven by a lot of what we call now retail investment. right? A lot of what the twentieth century did, what the SEC did was try to make sure that didn't happen. becausecause when everyone puts all of their money into a sort of speculative asset, like say, AI data centers because shrimp Jesus When everyone was like, wait a second, these aren't very valuable The money just is gone Part of the reason why things feel so weird is that like in order for the entire economic system to function, there's two giant collective delusions that everyone has to maintain at the same time or everything collapses. One is that is that the AI boom is inevitable and it's going to make money And the second one, and this is also directly tied to South Korea is that the war in Iran is going to end is going to end soon because Both of these things are not true And they're not true. N in the re They're not true. Like there's no fucking No, they're both complete lies that everything falls apart immediately. And South Korea, you know, the other reason why South Korea was was having these like just ten like ten percent of the market get like gets annihilated in a few minutes is that this would happen every time It became clear that no, the war isn't ending. Like every time Trump's fake peace deal like latest fake peace deal fell apart, that the market would collapse The problem is, in order for all these people to keep making money, everyone has to continue to collectively believe No, it's going to end. Yeah. And so you're just in this perpetual cycle, right? where're like South Korea is one of the countries in the world that is the most exposed to the effects of this war that's not like actively being bombed. Like this is like like in terms of massive industrial economies, right? Like obviously like East East Asia. Yeah, like like the rest of like Eastn South Asia, particularly is in by all of this. as we talked about elsewhere on this show South Korea is the core industrial center. Yeah. That's the most fucked by this specifically because they because they rely so much on natural gas and regular like regular fossil fuels that come that come through the Strait of Hormuz, which is not open, has never been opened, will not be reopened Yeah, I heard there was a great deal. I heard that actually it's going to be open. don' worry. It's going to be fine. Listen Netanyahu's a reasonable man. You know, Trump is a reason. These are reasonable people. It's going to go fine. It's all going to reopen soon Yeah, Ben Gavir only only holds a minor post in the Israeli government. Hold on. I am Googling this live God damn it God damn it. Oh wow, Check's notes. He is the minister of National seecurity. Oh no! Oh no M. So of course, You know, we talk about the economy and obviously The horror in Lebanon and Palestine is the real like you know is the most horrible and Iran is the most horrible thing going on right now. But these cascading effects are also horrible. If we've learned one thing from the last ten years, it's that it can always get worse for everyone. Oh yeah. So we have this moment where Like, everyone is gambling on South Korean ship manufacturers, right? Y and submanufacturers. on the basis that they will be totally necessary to the production of chips that are being sold to companies that can't use them that are a depreciating asset that get become valuess. These extremely expensive chips lose all their value within five years. They are going to install those chips into buildings that don't exist yet that are and they're going to put billions of dollars worth of these chips. Again, the chips have been made. The chips do exist largely, although there's still a lot of speculation. The chips exist. They're sitting in a warehouse at some point. someomeone is going to put them into a warehouse that itself is being speculated on By the same companies who are buying future compute on it is a different financial instrument They're going to build it. And then when they do build it, there's going to be so much demand for AI becausecause people love to use it And it's really made the economy so efficient It is like truly And also and also one final point about this, right? Yeah And also that the people who use it and who become power users of it aren't going to request more tokens. No than actually make the money Because more people using it is actually bad for them. because if those people use tokens, they're selling the tokens below cost. Right. Yeah, it's good. So Basically, this is a really strong for the Econy. And it's obviously, it's obscene and it's funny And it's truly terrifying. But I think the thing that I think I really want to like underline I me, I know you know you know you would say the same is that this is our money. Yeah. This is money that we produce by working our whole lives. We have worked so hard for so long and we produced so much surplus value and you know that's the nature of the situation And that money is being lit on fire sometimes quite literally, right? Like in coal fire plants and gas plants, it is destroying the planet. It is doing so in the name of keeping this bubble alive long enough for all of the big people who are being rinsed who got rinsed by investing in office buildings to get out with their cash and leave with the bag so that as we face total political and economic collapse as well as ecological disaster. There are people with enough money that they stole. this is one It's like one last job att the level of like global delusion Yeah And it's all built on this like mythmaking about AI But it's also built on all of these structures. And it's also built on like the collapse of the global economic system through war and stuff In short It's good. But this is our money, this is our money. We made this money. They're lighting it on fire so that they can get an a bad investment they made ten years ago back. All the bad investments they've made since two thousand nine, they're trying to cash out on that as fast as possible right now. And as long as they can keep pumping the stock market, they can keep taking that money out may have a chance to make it and some of them will be ruined, but this isn't going to be like the thirties. I don't think we're going to see a lot of them jumping out of skyscrapers tragically Like because I think I think honestly most of them are going to get out And we're going to be the ones holding the bag And we are the ones who produce that. I think that they're lighting on fire. And this is what they want to do with us and with the world and the world that we live in. And I'm so glad that we have no way to stop them I think that's good Fally, Yeah, you know, the optimistic view on this and again, I've been saying this already, Tr approver rating is thirty percent and the bomb hasn't even gone off yet. R. Like the economy hasn't blown up. and low key, the demand destruction for natural gas and oil is so intense. The economy the global energy market is greening faster It greening finally for the first time since we started doing this is greening at a pace fast enough to potentially stop some of the worst effects of climate change. So unfortunately the problem is at the same time we're also all of our new economic growth is entirely in like fucking gas They're not going to run. It's like this It's, you know, it's fine. Those are never gonna to run. Well no, they've they have definitely poisoned a shit ton of people right. So yeah. abbsolutely. No, no, no j Noose that. Yeah, but I also think that like, you know, like to some extent like part of the strategy here, right if you look at sort of Like what venture capapital is doing this. Their plan is like, okay, yeah, can we can navigate the complete destruction of the global economy and the subsequent political like calamities and the subsequent political fallout and the collapse of like nation states by you know, creating our own sort of fascist corporate autocracies Tottally They don't have to be right about that. L they just don't. They're not right Have you seen how bad these guys are? Elon Musk can't even make a friend. You think this guy can run a corporate state, city state? likeike come on, when that money stops having its value, they're not ready for the world which they're reaping. I said there's nothing we can do about that. There's nothing that we can do about it with the levers of power that exist right now formally, but there's actually a lot we can do about it and they're going learn A lot of reasons why. prerevious capitalists built the SEC. built the welfare st.. Why they did things. And that's going to be one of the last things they learn in Shealah Yeah. last time they did something like this that was frrankly less stupid because I cannot believe I'm saying this. At least there were houses. I can't believe I'm saying this, right. But like the last time they did this, they they set off a wave of world revolutions they barely survived and like revived the international left in a way they had been basically morbunded for extxtremely long periods of time outside of like very small regions And now this, you know, this the sort of like the this the sort of sleeping giant that they unleashed. has been awake for like a decade and a half And they're like What if we did this shit again Yeahet Wse. I mean I don't see what could go wrong for them I think I'm gonna say it again, Happy Pride. let's make this one the last birthday America ever has Tw hundred fifty is more than enough, don't you think? They had their time, our time is coming soon It could happen here? Hey, I'm Hoda Cotby, host of the podcast, Joy one hundred and one with Hoda Cotney. Okay, if you know me, you know this. I'm always searching for inspiration, for support and useful tools to help maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover all of that together. We're gonna have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating like when actress Olivia Mun shared how she overcame fierce health challenges that she never saw coming. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartum depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Olympic champ Seaan Johnson revealed why she had no choice but to be a gymnast. There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me. It's given me a belief that we all have one of those treasures inside of us. We just have to find it. Listen to Joy one hundred one with Hodak Coty on the IHart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts Hey everybody, it's the Jonas Bothers. This week on the podcast, Hey Jonas, we're so excited to be hanging out with Mika Abdala from the Hit show off campus. Congratulations on the massive show and massive success. Got through about episode five. I left the next morning to go meet the guys. cameame back, was like cool let's picku up where we left off and that series had been completed without me. Oh no That's like the number one rule of watching some bas. It's literally cheating. That's crazy. We talk about what it's been like watching the show become such a massive hit. What's next for season two and just how close the off campus cast really is. We're genuinely so close. What's the group chat called If you can say if it's allowed to be said on the pod. That's a great question. One of them is off campus Brazil. Okay love. Shout out Brazil. shh out Brazil. 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I'm not worried about Balisic, I'm not worried about Balligan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. And give you the truth about the US National team from inside the program It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarter fininals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. Whether you're a lifelong fan or this is your first World Cup, we've got you comeu Listen, Inside American socer with Tom Boger and Tab Ramus in the IHart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast Imagine over a hundred thousand strikers shutting down the city of London for an entire month the ms of not only a general strike but also a social revolution Such was the case in eighteen eighty nine, when the dark workers in the port of London made their voices heard and shook the city to its core Hello and welcome to It Itappen hereere. I'm Andrew Sage. Andrew as I'm on YouTube. I'm joined once again by James, I have to be back with you and Likewise, likewise, and have you heard of the Great London Dck strike of eighteen Union night have I went to school in a time when like they still taught a little bit of labour history Ah, uh Okay, so I guess we will be able to have a bit of an exchange about it then Yeah, that I'm interested to know more Yeah, I first learned about it through Eicomalester You. briefly abed in one of his pamphlets, one of his many pamphlets. Yeah But I found fg information and Cross verification through a bunch of different articles that Ill link in the show notes and reference throughout Before we get to the strike itself, we have to look to the conditions that brought us aboutat port of London, like ports around the world in that time had terrible working conditions and terrible pee alongside it Despite being the fulcrumb of London economy, the so called unskilled workforce that made it run was left destitute parts due to the inconsistent nature of the work itself. According to Lipcoms article, a lot of trade was seasonal You had sugar coming in from the Caribbean timber from the North, and tea and spices from the east This was in a time when You know, the sun never set. on the British Empire Yeah Back then trade was also a lot more vulnerable to weather conditions So the flow of commerce wasn't the most predictable Andince ports were not very recognized either It's too a lot of labor to load and unload ships But there wasn't a consistent demand for that labor week to week You know, some weeks you would have hundreds of ships to load and unload and other weeks you would have mere dozens So dock companies could get away with having a casual call on and contract system Basically they have a large pool of men hanging around waiting for labor Most of them would only get taken on for a day or just a few hours and whether even got work that day or not was based ' luck and feil. You know, you could spend all day outside the dark waiting that cold on and end up being sent home with no pay So it created a very desperate, competitive environment as men would basically have to push and shove each other to get a chance I'd being picked for work for the day These are conditions where the workers are clearly poised against each other As is often the case under capitalism But around that time about a year before the Strike was o about. According to an article by Beverly Cook for London Museum The so called unskilled and impoverished young woman working at a match factory in the BueQuarter of London went on strike and won better working conditions and pe. which may have even inspired Dockworker's boalness however, one really kicked off the Gid strike was a dispute over the bonuses workers would normally get for working faster and more efficiently One of the big dock companies, the East and West India dock company decidees to cut their bunas. and led by a man named Bent onn the fourteenth of august eighteen ninety nine The dock workers began walking out and convincing their fellow workers do the same This era of labour history is always super Fascinating to me, Leg There's so much at stake. for labor in this time period, people's lives were genuinely miserable, right? L working class existence in this time period. like you can read u I think Engels was writing about slightly earlier than this. Belick Egels has about the conditions for working class people in Manchester But also like your bosses and the cops can just kill you You are on strike, you know, like those u the stakes are so high. Ickow thatist cops can't and don't kill people now, I guess The desire to unionize was so natural. Yeah, right?ike it wasn't coming from people like knowing of generations of like we do now, right? Like when we When we form our unions now, even if we know we unionize I say Starbucks is the place that's unionizing not we can think of the generations of union workers who have come before us and the struggles and the gains that they've had But these folks, I mean, a had to an extent that people's charart are in these other things, right? Like I know we've spoken about Ludites before and the idea of understanding ludism as collective bargaining through riot. but like Still, these people who really like built the modern labor movement in the nineteenth century They pave the way with their blood for all of us to an extent, right? And I think that's always like really impressive to me that people were prepared to like step into that fight. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we take it for granted that we have a legacy to draw up on today, but You know, somebody had to be the first. someome group of workers had to be the first to, you know, come together and St up. in those industrial conditions, in those urban conditions. I'm sure there's a history of workers standing up prior at the industrial Revolution. you know, you would have collective bargain and even back in antiquity, but And miserableness of the conditions really pushed them to take a stand and even though It work itself was made so competitive They still recognize their common cause I'm sure that before that strike, they might have had some petty rivalries, some petty grudges amongst each other Like all that guy keeps taking my job, like It's like three days straight. now I haven't gotten any work because he keeps on shoving me aside and But they put it all that as side for the strike. The Union was unofficial at the time But that union would go to form a strike committee to put forward their demands which were an increase in wages. an overtime wage. withith time minimums end to the contract system and a limit on the call onons which would be fixed to specific times of day and the recognition of their union Their strike would soon be joined by the amalgamated Stead Union, which were basically a higher status Kina Doc rule and even more critical to the function of the docs. So their support it lended legitimacy to the stth The Steve Eoreors would issue a request to other workers in London particularly connected to Shipw. to stand in solidarity to Duck workers and their demands and to donate contributions to support the strikers which is, of course critical to any long term strike action So across workshops and factories, other workers join in the ca Makers, Cen, lighterm men among them By the twenty seventh of August, an estimated one hundred thirty thousand men were on strike. to quote one newspaper article from the time Dock men, lightighter men Bargemen, cement workers, carmen, ironwkers, and even factory girls are coming out. If it goes on a few days longer, All London will be on holiday. The great machine by which five millions of people are fed and clothed will come to a dead stop What is to be the end of it all The proverbial' small spark has kindled a great fire which threatens to envelop the whole metropolis And according to Bevery Cook, after two weeks of the doockers striking, ten thousand tailors in East London also went on strike Now these were mostly Jewish immigrants who work in the clothing industry's sweats shop conditions scattered across around five hundred cramped workshops of mostly ten workers or less apiece Cross White Chapel The Telas demanded fixed twelve hour workkings, a mandatory one hour break outside of the workshop. increased wages and a ban on forcing workers to take home their workers They mostly spread the word of their strike through informational posters They wouldn't necessarily too connected to the Dark workorker strike at first. They had their own demands and it seems have been a coincidence of feet They both threw hisself around the same time perrops one encraed by the other During this strike, as Malestter put it. They strove to feed a population, women and children included of upwards of half a million people ree subscriptions, collections across the city to keep up with fast correspondence by letter and telegram to organize meetings, demonstrations and talks, to keep an eye out, put pen to people, and stay alert less the bosses successfully trick English or foreign poor into black leggs. to monitor all the docks entrances to see if there were people going to work and how many All of this stunningly well done by unsolicited volunteers. There was one noteworthy insert A ship looad of ice arrived and a rumour was rife that this ice was meant for the hospitals. The strikers raced in such numbers to help unload it without a care whether they would be paid for the job or not The sick and especially the patients in the hospitals were not to suffer on account of the strike. I hadn't heard that before. That's Qite touching. Like this is especially part of the discourse in the UK at the moment, right? Like when medical workers go on strike L this always gets trotted out like by the right wing press that like, oh, well, they've just chosen to make that patients suffer or whatever. when in fact, the procedures and planning that medical workers go through before they go on strike to ensure that people don't die because they went on strike many and and complex, right? But like It's interesting to see that even back then people were as they were working out the best ways to collollective action They were trying to also not harm other working people Yeah. I mean also The extent of the strike and the extent of the suffering is really determined by the extent to which the bosses are huling out right? Yeah, yeah exactly So if you want to blame anybody, you have to blame the bosses, not the workers. Yeah, absolutely. It's within the power of employers to not have their employees have to go on strike in order to be treated with dignity and respect, however they consistently choose not to Exactly And I think what the workers demonstrates in strikes like that and strikes in this time period as well, iss just their capacity So analyze the situation to organize themselves to respond ively to Pblems that arise You know, M has to described mass meetings and pickets Ding processions to rally support They even worked on Persweden Sabs to join them orr according to some news reports, they were intimidating Those scabs. Yeah There was another quote from that licom article I wanted to read So during this week, I have witnessed the most open intimidation practiced by the men on stries Howing crowds going from dock to dock and whouse to wayhouse, stopping businesses and threatening vengeance and all who do not comply with their demands Until now there are thousands who are out who had no desire to strike, but were compelled to do so Those who dare to work for their wages are being brutally maltreated and threatened with worse if they dare attempt to work in defiance the strikers's wishes I saw several men severely injured today on Tahoo bllood be made to fly in all directions by gangs of strikers One of the authorities for for not to protect peaceable citizens in earning an honest living. signed A lover of freedom This was sent to the Times on the twenty fourth of August, eighteen eighty nine And to me it kind of sounds like a doark boss, right then? Yeah, right. trying of sound like,h an innocent bystander Violence is not a thing that is absent in the labour movement, but again, like to your point earlier, offtten the discourse does not talk about the violence, which is done by forcing people to live in poverty and labor inhumane conditions Exactly, exxactly. That's where the real violence lies To be fair, there were a couple instances of charges of assault and intimidation, but the strikes were mostly peaceful You know, they exercised a lot of courage and discipline and restraint They really showed that these working class people were not impossible to organize or of City dangerous How to capacity order and collective organization, that could just as easily prefigure A free society as it merely is directed towards negotiation. call is that D An aspect of their resistance that I took note of was the fact that a ran strike also took place You know, you often hear nowadays When you try and talk to people about, you know, organizing a strike, organizing a general strike, whatever, or just like a strike in the industry Fr people I've spoken to you often hear that, oh, I have bills to pay, I have rent to make, I have, you know this and that to do In these violent and poor conditions at risk of their lives The families of strikers just chooose not to pay rent for the duration of the trike That's fed. Yeah. All of them collectively a Rnt strike And they also would have been gathering donations and such in all of this time as the strike is going on to sustain Y they keep in other ways their their other basic needs. Yeah. But unfortunately, the donations do not look like there would be enough to stave off starvation You know, despite food tickets being distributed to cover food needs, after the direct food distribution cant keep up There still wasn't enough to cover for the swollen mass of strikers and their families Iet the strikers still held on rationed they had even as the bosses waited and waited for them. give up You know, the bosses were literally counting on the starvation of the workers to break the strike so they wouldn't have to give into the demands. And it really got to a point in the beginning of September where it looked like the strike might not be able to go on and then A miracle of international solidarity came through The Brisbane Warf Labours Union in Australia sent money from citizens of all classes across Australia The strike ces. The striker' got a first installment of one hundred and fifty pounds whichich I found out is worth seventeen thousand pounds today Geez The Dark workers received over thirty thousand pounds in total O over three point four million pounds today. This sustay in their strike long term and secure their victory Obviously with a win four like that They were able to sustain the efforts. And even though the Taylor' strike was mostly separate from what the Dock strikers were doing, The Dock Strikers made sure that the teelers got funds to support themselves A mount is about one hundred pounds or eleven thousand Colls today Nice I mean, can you imagine that kind of solidarity today where that that swell of resources can be poured in support Fllow workers in their efforts. Yeah, feellllow workers who you had so much less communication with than we do today, right? Like it's not like they could it's not like they logged onto Yeah like Twitter and we' like, oh yeah, well these people are on strike and we're talk to them and okay, we should support them like Yeah at a time when peopleople had less communication, they still managed to have more solidarity. And we see like People have raised millions of dollars, for instance, to feed people in Palestine, right? Yeah. solidarity still exists. for sure. spepecifically in a labour movement It is hard to come by. often And even when you do see solidarity in labour movement, it tends to be restricted to borders of the nia. You might see the occasional Solidarity straight within the country. But how often do you see strikes crossing those borders? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, like If dock workers in London were to strike today. Oh, you know, what are the chances the dock workers in Australia are dock workers in U. S. would support them Yeah, like even living as I do like at an international border, like Issues of international solidarity will come up in union discussions Like there might be times where we might take a collection. something for Union to the south of what is the border now in between U.S. and Mexico, right? But The idea that you could raise that much money and that like your solidarity could be so profound that like that is the thing that let these people get through. Yeah. I think that's very hard to imagine. that happening now She's a sham It's just so fascinating to me how like we have this period of the industrial Revolution, right where Labor becomes even more exploitative, right? More surplus value accrue to the people who own the means of production to be crudely Marxist about it, I guess And the working class, which is the people creating the value but not receiving the benefits from it has to decide how to respond to that. And around the world they're like fuck this Like, we're not having that. And like The whole genenesis of labor organizing, international solidarity. it existed before, as you said, off course it did, but like the sort of formal structures that we have today arrives alongside that increased level of labour exploitation There's a moment from then til maybe the nineteen teens. I mean maybe til the Great Depression, where it really seems like that the clash between capital and labor is like a reallyrill equal of fierce fight, you know Now like it almost seems like byy comparison, we're sort of Labor organizing tends to ask more nicely and be a bit less like bit less radical and a bit less international compared to how it was back then I guess not all of it. There is still very radical labor organizing, of course, I don't wantan to like overlook that, but it's just This is a particularly remarkable time Yeah, as it's notound as prominent O perhaps it's less just less apparent, less recognizable, less Amplified If it does exist, it could stand to be amplified more. This was a time when bosses were really worried like as influenced by the lover of freedom, writing in' the newspaper, they were very concerned with this, right? L They u they weren't sure how long I guess they could pull this shit off. L how long they can make it last where they could exploit people this much. Exactly You kind of see them bitiding their time today, right? Because These battles were fought The war wasn't one You know, dud Class war is yet to be won Or I suppose if you want to be particularly cynical about it, you could say that it has been won and The capitalists O theood inside. Yeah, but you'll notice that where we have won concessions where weers have won concessions in the past The accomplice mayly buy that time and wait for an opportunity to roull back those concessions Yeah, without doubt And so we could continue to exist in this kind of cycle Oh Bite in and stopping short of total victory by accepting concessions just for the fight after restart again Yes down the line Oh we could You know, reach the finish line as a were. Yeah, theo The kindler gentler capitalism that we were supposed to build through collective action hasn't really delivered And all it's done has resulted in capitalism moving to places where it can more readily exploit labour I was having this discussion with a colleague, right? likeike an older colleague. They had been an industrial union person like their whole lives and they were saying that like In this era of neoliberal globalization, the greatest failure of United States Unions was to fail to internationalize. like when Borders dropped to capital, but not people right in the late twentieth century and money jobs started moving from the United States to a lot of cases to Mexico, right? And unions could have responded by saying We will go to Mexico and we will organize our siblings in the working class in Mexico. Not that Mexican people can't organize themselves and don't have a very long and proud tradition of working class organizing. they do But like those unions that had the resources from years of struggle in the US B and large didn't go to South and Central America and say we are here with you. Like we are not going to allow them to exploit you in the way that they once exploited us And they didn't do that, right? They kind of doubled down on protectionism. you see it now with unions under Trump a lot as well you know, talking about tariffs and things if they would protect jobs like They're sort of choosing the nation state over the working class when they do that. And that's bit them in the ass before, but they still continue to keep doing it Yeah The nation states are they? Greatest Csy ops Yeah, yeah of all time. Just getting back to eighteen eighty nine. For a moment Yeah, yeah workers after receiving that that wind fall managed to hold on for just a bit longer and entered negotiations with their bosses through a committee initiated by the Lord Mayor of London whose city was obviously paralyzed over the past month The strikers also received their support of the Irish Catholic Achbishop C no money. H shed that Irish Catholic background with a lot of the Ws I of the dark ws and What I found, I guess interesting reading that Was it according to the Catholic Encyclopedia's entry on Cardinal Henry Edward Mononey His involvement in the Dock workers negotiations kind of forshadud And in cyclical it was issued by They cope by the time w years later directly address the conditions of the workers set out a chuch policy that supported the right of labor to form unions while of course, rejecting socialism and a wom in private property right One step forward, two steps back Yeah And I find it interesting that that encyclical was issued around the time that you know, as many were he P of today has issued a new enncyclical on the subject of EI in part in relation to labour Yeah. By the end of the committee negotiations, the Dark workers had all their demands met And the strike was agreed to be over on the sixteenth of september. eighteen eighty nine. The Tailors also secure the victory And after the strike, the Dark workers formed an official new general Labours Union. And the strike inspired thousands of unskilled workers to also su organize themselves According to Lipcom Union membership overall grew from seven hundred fifty thousand in eighteen eighty eight to one point five million do in eighteen ninety two overver two million in eighteen ninety nine And this growth would be a twelve numbers for the existing unions as well as the establishedment of new unions. Now if we look at this strike through Mal Tester's eyes, I think he provides a very useful analysis. in A B a strike written in eighteen eighty nine Lly right after the strike itself, when Malotester was in London While he recognized that Doc Rigas had won the battle He like is questioning why they didn't go ahead and win the war. You know, he questioned why a movement powerullfuly enough to bring one of the world's largest ports to a standstill Didn't go any further The Dcs have been running because workers, e the thousands, collectively made them run. And when those workers withdrew their labour, an entire section of the economy crowned a whole So final Testter, the first lesson of a strike and their value for revolution was that they reveal where the power actually comes from. Everyday life under capitalism and thisestate tends to hide that fact You know they make it seem like society is organized by governments, investors, managers, owners But a strike makes it very clear The people who do the work are the people who make society function People may have felt isolated would begin acting together, all in meetings, organizing relief, feeding hundreds of thousands, managing communications In the process g practical experience and self organization demonstrating the potential to organize the city itself by themselves for themselves In other words, they're developing new powers which would shape their new drives and establish a new consciousness strikes are schools of struggle, but as Mart has to points out, they're limited They reveiew W's power, but they don't use that power to transform society strike, one, higher wages and better conditions The basic structure of society was untouched bosses were still bosses and the workers were still workers, and the state was still the state protecting property and maintaining the existing order And this was Wild Tester's critique of the Labour movevement. they got stuck on winning concessions instead of shaking up the system We see through history that employers regroup economic conditions chang and the previous skians would come under pressure So one battle will be won Does that mean the class wall? ' been more literally a few decades later Another strike took place in the port of London by dock workers In nineteen twenty six, as recounted in Callum Kant and Matthew Lee's article on the Making of Londons Jonal Strike by Jakman Dark workers, transport workers and other laborers joined cool miners a nationwide strike after mine owners sought wage cuts and longer hours In that strike, Darkwuers once again effectively shut down key parts of the city's economy But during this strike, state repression was especially severe The government deployed police, volunteers and emergency powers to keep services running and break picket lines Violent clashes occurred around the docks where workers tried to prevent strike breakers and the movement of goods Also, the leadership of the Trade Union's Congress, TUC was quite conservative in response to this work of action whileile rank and file workers demonstrated strong solidarity and willingness to continue the struggle Union leaders ultimately called off the strike after nine days without securing major guarantees for the strikers It was a major betrayal of the movement and demonstrated the weakness of traditional Unionism structurally and ideologically You see the signs of unions basically in parts of the system in the end as we see today And see the potential of workers as always to act autonomously So strikes like these leave me with questions can a strike develop beyond a negotiation over wages and conditions into a broader challenge who control society. Can the solidarity build during the strike survive after the immediate dispute ends Howan workers begin to see themselves not just as employees with demands, but as people capable of managing social lives themselves Can we assail the legal order and the property protection that stand in the way of our survival And in all of these questions, what I'm getting at is How would you turn a general strike into a social revolution There's still gaps to be bridged between labour struggles and the grander ambitions of such a revolution. and labour conditions have suitertain change for many You know, I don't want to put forward the position that we just need to recreate the rugged industrial unism of the past But we still have power in our refusal to work. that hasn't changed And if we leverage that alongside organization within and outside of the workplace to support our struggles, to build and fight, to propose and oppose, and push for the vision of a world beyond workers and bosses When merely push into demands two bosses Maybe we can accomplish the social revolution that Malotestter sought more than a century Oh. Bigger strikes strronger unions. The answer There may be steps toward workers use solidarity Confidence and organizational capacity There are control of all aspects of social life. As always, all power to all the people Peace Hey, I'm Hoda Cotby, host of the podcast, Joy one hundred and one with Hoda Cotby. Okay, if you know me, you know this. I'm always searching for inspiration, for support and useful tools to help maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover all of that together. We're gonna have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating Like when actress Olivia Mun shared how she overcame fierce health challenges that she never saw coming. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartum depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Olympic champ Seaan Johnson revealed why she had no choice but to be a gymnast. There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me. It's given me a belief that we all have one of those treasures inside of us. We just have to find it. Listen to Joy one hundred one with Hodicoty on the Hart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts Hey everybody, it's the Jonas Brothers. This week on the podcast, Hey Jonas, we're so excited to be hanging out with Mika Abdala from the hit show off campus. Congratulations on the massive show and masssive success. Got through about episode five. I left the next morning to go meet the guys. cameame back was like, cool, let's pick up where we left off and that series had been completed without me. Oh no no. That's like the number one rule of watching somebody. It's literally cheating. That's craz We talk about what it's been like watching the show become such a massive hit. What's next for season two, and just how close the off campus cast really is. We're genuinely so close. What's the group chat called If you can say if it's allowed to be said on the pod. That's a great question. One of them is off campus Brazil. Okay, love. Shout out Brazil. Shut out Brazil. And then Boys have their own group chat called Dams Our conversation with Mika Abdalah is out now. Go check it out. Listen to Hey Jonas in the iHart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast sure My first guest is Haris Hopen, Shakira, Luke and Iarin. Samira Gacy. I'm so excited. on a boun to bed. You have surprises? M surprises. Welcome to Site three hundred five where the good chat comes to life. What Yeah nok Carary As to com my see myious is seven Sit M am mante. Oh. You're the only person I know that loves the yellow starburst. This is Sweet three hundred five. Listen to Sweet three hundreder five with Lter Pons as part of my Gulbura podcast network on the IiHart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. American soccer is exploded. The knockout rounds are here. The US won their group and now every match is winner go home I'm Tab Ramos. And I'm Tom Boger. On our podcast Inside American soccer, we'll talk about the real storylines. I'm not worried about Balistic, I'm not worried about Balligan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. And give you the truth about the US National team from inside the program It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarter fininals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. Whether you're a lifelong fan or this is your first World Cup, we've got you come Listen, Inside Americancer with Tom Bogen and Tab Ramus in the IiHart Radio apppp, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast This is It Could Happ hereere Executive Disorder, ourur weekly newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis T todayay, I'm joined by James Stout and Robert Evans.! This is the Supreme Court Edition. That's right This episode're covering Supreme Court rulings from june twenty fourth to july first and a few other news items that happened in that duration. And let's start with some of those smaller miscellaneous news items. getting to the long series of Supreme Court rulings, which this episode will focus on. Yeah. So starting with support stuff I guess. It appears the Department of Defense is planning to involuntarily activate reserve lawyers to serve as immigration judges, according to Aic and Bloomberg L law in the context of voluntary activition, you can still for that, it's to do with the nature of their contracts as reservists, like those how that time adds up to their military retirement and stuff. But in this case it seems that it is also planning on activating people who have not indicated that they are interested in doing this Secondly, a horrific pair of shallow earthquakes rated at seven point two and ten point five on riged trarail Venezuela last week destroying whole high rise buildings. Agaira and Caracas were particularly hard hit I actually saw a video of the street where I used to live with people or who are very clearly dead lying in the road whichich sucks Days later, people are still trapped under the rubble toll is already in the thousands with over five thousand missing. It will be very hard for us to get like an accurate death toll out of the Venezuelan government Among the missing are more than one hundred recently deported Venezuelans who were sent by the USAct of Venezuela. They were staying in a hotel and that hotel collapsed This week, Iraqi military also raided politicians inside the green zone, seized a bunch of cash and cited an ongoing anti corruption effort And the Department of Justice Antitrust Division together with seventeen state attorney generals, has filed a civil suit against a number of egg producers for their alleged unlawful manipulation of egg prices. This was really interesting. I read through some of the dogs here and And this is definitely worth worth a closer look at some point. This is something I'd like to cover in the future, actually People are like, you know, the cost of eggs has become a meme or whatever. but like this is This is just straight up like oligoply behavior. Yeah, ye, colllluding to increase the price of something. And like this became a political issue. This was one of Trump's main campaign items. Yeah Yeah, they knew that as they continued to colle to do this, right I think it does They're discussing within the context of the way that we obtain our food in this country and the people who have control over the thingsings that a lot of people feel like they need to get through every day, right? Like I think this isn't the sort of silly throwaway thing that some people think it is. Definitely According to an ethics disclosure released last Tuesday President Trump has made more than one point four billion dollars from his crypto businesses last year making over six hundred million from Trump branded meme coins and five hundred million in income from his crypto platform, World Liberty Financial which also partnered with the UFC Freedom two hundred fifty event pay the fighters in crypto on the World Liberty Fancial platform The peanut farm comes comes to mind considering One point four billion dollars in Trump branded meme coins It's kind of hard to write these corruption stories. I was looking into one recently about some federal contracting and like Something that would have destroyed a presidency ten years ago is certain like a twelve hour news story now. Not even sometimes. This is something that like Jadie Vvance was just like talking about just like openly like last year Avance joked about this. Yeah. It was that quote, I think H Nixon's historical legacy is enjoying a bit of a reenaissance and deservedly so I joked that if Watergate happens tomorrow, it would be like a twelve hour news story. There you go. Yeah. The idea that it took down a presidency is crazy, unquote. Yeah, yeah What a u just lay it lay it on Yeah what a thing to say on the record Yeah, Jesus. The Colorado Supreme Court has blocked three redistricting ballot measures that would help Democrats pick up house seats in the state. Also in Colorado, the DSA has continued its winning streak with twenty nine year old Democratic Socialist Malat Kiros, who won the primary in the first congressional district being the thirty year long incumbent by ten points. This incumbent has been serving as the house rep longer then this democratic socialist Challenger has been alive The first district in Colorado as well, like the will go Democrat. Oh yeah. Bar Eng like. Centrist Dems running a spoiler, which is always a thing they can do. This person will go to Congress. Joining the now growing kind of informal democratic socialist caucus there. Mayor Zara Mamani has announced more details about the fifteen million dollars allocated to help transr youth access gender affirming care. The city is launching a tech slash call line to help connect people with care and services and a direct care access fund for providers of youth gender affirming care to quote help ensure New Yorkers can continue to access medically necessary care. unquote. That's from the mayor's office Currently, New York City clinics like Cowen Lord, Planed Parenthood, and the H andH City municipal hospital system all provide care to trans youth the fight continues to restore youth care services at NYU Langoon and Mount Sciai Also speaking of Mum Donny. The mayor's newly appointed Rnt guidelines Board approved a first ever two year rent freeze for rent stabilized units in the city Let's now get to the Supreme Court. starting with two shorter summaries and not shorter because they're less important just because We have a lot to cover and we'll probably cover these stories more in depth in the future In a six to three ruling, the Conservative Supreme Court justices struck down a law limiting how much money political parties can spend on campaigns in coordination with candidates, citing the First Amendment This order overruled the court's F four decision back in two thousand one which upheld campaign finance limits Essentially, this will allow political parties to spend vastly more money while utilizing candidates low advertising rates that are not awarded to super PCs This will also make it harder to do campaign finance reform or super PAC reform based on this interpretation of the First Amendment meananing that court reform might be what is necessary to change something like this in the future In another six three ruling, The Supreme Court upheld state bans on trans girls participating in girls' school sports Kavanaugh wrote the majority opinion, finding that the Constitution and Title Iine allows for school sports to be separated by sex and that the quote unquote sex in Title nine, quote cannot possibly be interpreted to refer to anything other than biological sex, unote because that was the quote unquote ordinary meaning of the word when Title nine passed in the seventies. quote unquote, biological sex is related to sex assigned at birth in this ruling. Do they actually say that they do tie biological sex to sex sign at birth? Yeah. So they're not proposing like a chromosonality definition. Not in my reading of the ruling that I see chromosomes Be they also cited the IOC definition, right? which is a distinct thing from sexicide at birth The ISC definition considers chromosonality and then also androgen sensitivity. So like where I guess approaching a situation where someone could be eligible for the Olympics, but not eligible for high school sports. I haven't read the entirety of this decision I need to, but I've read three other ones yesterday In the second paragraph, it states that biological sex is quote sex assigned at birth Okay. So yeah, we are approaching like a disparate situation with IOC understandings of sex. whichich is not I guess a particularly new thing like we had Maro Jose Martinez Pagigno was was disqualified from she would have been Olympic athlete in the eighties based on like a a misunderstanding of how chromosonality works, I guess. You'd have to have the person who would who would split that difference, right for like a national organizing body to then decide how they would deal with that person competing. Nonetheless, it fucking sucks for yeah. lots of young people Yeah, I mean, and biological sex even as a categories itself like constructed. This has actually no concrete basis in biology. Yeah Justice Sortimer, Kagan and Jackson agreed that the state bandanss don't violate Title nine though on a narrower basis than the conservative majority But the three liberal judges dissented under the fourourteh Aendment's equal Protection Clause likeike importantly The ruling itself does not mandate a ban, right? The court iss not saying that schools must ban trans athletes. but rather that Title nine claims cannot be used to oppose bans on trans athletes for participating in school sports This is a narrow, limited ruling It's kind of like the least bad out of all of the potential bad outcomes The court declined to rule on whether states that have transransclusive rules for school sports are themselves in violation of Title IXI and declined to rule on the degree to which trans people in general have protections under the equal prrotection Clause Clarence, Thomas's concurrence Very, very ugly, just like flatly like transphobic way more so than Kavanaugh's majority opinion could read it but it's just ugly Like it's just ugly stuff. likeike it's it's eass just to big it And it doesn't add anything to like the legal opinion. Lid just like took the chance to show he was a bigger Like I said, we will definitely cover this in more detail in the near future, but that requires some like careful focus and reporting So I want to start, I guess, with temporary protected status TPS, right? So the case in front of the Supreme Court Ccern the Trump administation's attempt to remove the TPS of Syrian and Haitian nationals I think we need to begin by addressing a lot of the misinformation and misunderstanding here. TPS is a renewable non permanent status with no pathway to permancy. It can last between six and eighteen months. And it's renewed currently by the DHS seecretary, right power p to them when DHS began overseeing immigration It was created in nineteen ninety. and at its core it's supposed to be a way of protecting people who are in the United States when disaster befalls their country of citizenship It You are in the US when they declare a TPS. you can apply, get granted a work permit. The longest that will last is eighteen months Two months before it runs out, DHS has to determine if they will reauthorize it or not So some folks, for instance from El Salvador, have been in the U.S for decades on TPS that they have no permanency. they have no sense of stability It is It's very hard for them to like make progress in many areas that would be easy for citizens or even permanent residents or visa holders, right? Because of that lack of the ability to plan to become citizens. they wanted to pass to permanency, like There are a couple of ways to do that, but they might have to risk leaving and coming back on another status, which many of them are not willing to do I wrote about the Venezuelan TPS in my first Dy and Gap series. So people want to hear an immigration lawyer, an immigration lawyer from one of the cases we're going to talk about next, explaining that then they can The TPS, as ruled by Sanchz versus Morcus is not the same as lawful admission to the country, right peopleople have Ive frequently been claiming I've seen that the Haitian TPS pertained to a twenty ten earthquake. This is not correct This was in the courts in the first Trump administration would be the simplest way of saying it. The current TBS pertains to the twenty twenty one killing of Juvenile Moise. and the subsequent violence thereafter, right? So it came about under the Biden administration. If people want more context at the time, I was writing opeds for NBC and I will include one that I wrote in the show notes The time of the announcement in twenty twenty one They were exceptionally clear. that they did not want more Haitian people coming to the U.S. L genuinely some of the most repugnant language I've seen from the executive branch outside of this administration In one instance, M Yorker said, thoseose who attempt to travel to the United States after this announcement will not be eligible for TPS and may be repatriated. There were some more explicit and in my mind, uglier statements. Again, I've cataloged those in previous writings, so you can read it case pertained to whether an administration could terminate a TPS without going through interagency review, something court records show they didn't do in case of a Haitian TPS The court heard that argument and effectively said that the courts could not challenge the failure of DHS to do that They didn't say that Nome followed the law or followed the procedures that she should have followed cancel this GPS They said that whether she did or did not do that cannot be challenged in court One of the other challenges here was that the Haiti decision was motivated by race address this and I'm just going to quote from the opinion here. Political discourse by prominent public figures is increasingly couout in terms that would have scandalized the public just a short time ago And the statements cited by the Mot respondents, especially those concerning Haiti and Haitian immigrants to this country, exemplify this development. But whatever one may think of the cited statements, they are insufficient to show that the termination of Haiti's TPS designation based on the race of the Haitian people Ironically, both Doough and my O respondents identify a strong race neutral explanation of these official statements Pident administration Jermal Stsantan and immigr and itss obvious antipathy toward past administration's CPS policies So what they're saying there is like this wasn't based on race, they hate all immigrants, right? or they hate everyone on TPS. And do want to point out that it was not so very long ago that the president spoke about Haitian people eating dogs and cats. Here is Mark Wayne Mullin answering a question about this the temporary prrotective status is over. They have to go home. Now they don't have to go to the country that they came from. If they're not feeling safe, they can go someplace else, but they cannot stay here. Your TPS temporary prrotective status is over. So we will help assist you in leaving if you would like We'll buy you an airline ticket. We'll give you twenty thousand six hundred dollars to re establish yourself someplace else if you don't want to go back to the country you came from, But you have to leave. and we're going to assist you in doing so. And if you choose not to, then we'll pick you up and force you to leave If that was yesterday, here's him answering a question about DPS today. So today's Wednesday for those listening later. be going after Haitians living in the country, Syrians living in the country? What's the path forward? Well, I hate when it's phrased going after individuals. The fact is TPS for certain individuals under the court ruling, they no longer have status TPS was temporary. It was never meant to be permanent status You had an opportunity why you were here to possibly try to change your status. now that the court ruling has went out, you no longer have that option. You have to go back to a country that either take you or back to to the country you came from And if you deport yourself, which we will give you two thousand six hundred dollars plus a plane ticket to go home, you have the opportunity at that point to fill out it legally for a visa or another way to come back in this country. But you ent you have to come in through our immigration systems and follow our laws, not illegally. But if we have to arrest you and de you. That option of coming back in this country is off the table So we would encourage everybody that fell under any TPS that is no longer temporary protected status for you Your time is expired Previously This self deportation had barred people from coming back. I need to check exactly what program he's talking about there maybe it's something that I haven't come across, right What he's suggesting there is that people could leave to a third country. they would have to find a third country. It would accept them that is less and less likely to happen in this global climate. This is very bad. especially the people like we know in Syria there has been into communal violence ever since the end of the Civil War, right? And then the installation of the Syrian transitional government It is still not a safe place. Haiti remains a place where people, especially people who are going back with a bunch of cash from the United States are likely to be targeted This is really bad. TPS is an important program. did not give people Pmancy, it could have been much better, but not having it is much worse Dalking of things that are much more worse, I want to move on to Mullin versus Aloorolado. People be familiar with AOL if they've listened to my previous work, I've interviewed a lot of people from AOL over the years. This case pertains to asylum. and the United States a law regarding asylum The law says anyone who is in or arrives in the USA may apply for asylum Of course, CBP can inspect people seeking admission to the USA In practice, what this means is that asylum seekers have metered this process of physically preventing people entering the USA so that they cannot then arrive in the USA and apply for asylum called metering, right There have been various types of metering over the years. The Ninth Circuit previously held that when someone encounters U.S. border officials, they may apply for asylum is the difference here is between entering a port of entry versus having to have passed through a port of entry or around a port of entry Port of entry is the thing with the like I'm thinking of the Senate Ceder one, but like the biger revolving doors, right where the CBP people stand, where where the blue CBP, blue shirt CBP stand CBP has previously said that they did this for capacity reasons, but those capacity claims have been contradicted by reports of their own offffice of the Inspector General Effectively, the Supreme Court has blessed the practice of metering asylum applications by saying that people have to have arrived in the USA versus arriving at the border This is being portrayed as a very very straightforward decision. Let me read from the opinion here. An alien standing in Mexico does not arrive in the United States by attempting and failing to set foot in the country. An alien quote arrives in the United States only when he crosses the border. the INA at the Imigration Naturalization Act. Thus neither entitles an alien standing in Mexico to apply for asylum nor requires an immigration officer to inspect him. They later said Metering does not permanently bar any alien from arriving and applying for asylum, despite the fact that many migrants died and will die or suffered tremendous harm due to the practice go on to say last, respondents' argument that the government might someday prevent all potential arriving asylum applicants from reaching the point where they could file the application addresses a hypothetical future policy. The rescinded metering policy at issue, which merely delayed entry to improve conditions at certain points of entry Let's listen now to this clip of Stephen Miller. So America's doors are closed fully to a s of signickers. That's not a hypothetical future policy that Stephen Miller is saying it, right? Yeah, that's absurd. That's very clearly what's going happen. L you're being Delliberately naive. It's obscene to say that that's a hypothetical. It's not. Like you're just like flatly laying out the mechanism in which all asylum seekers can be denied the chance to even ask for asylum by just magically saying, no, you're actually not talking to us when you're talking to us at the border Yeah, and like I want to address this like standing in Mexico claim, right? Because They're standing at the port of entry. So this builduilding, quotequote, in Mexico, is paid for by the United States. It contains armed United States personnel.? Are we therefore invading Mexico have we therefore seized Mexican territory? Like just because you have not definitionally crossed the border It is misleading to say that you're standing in Mexico, right? The port of entry is clearly a liminal space. It is it is it's not like you're in fucking Chiapas shouting on a megaphone, Hey can I have asylum? L like this framing is oversimplifying to put it mildly What this means is that we have created a de facto incentive to enter the United States between ports of entry. People who do so will have arrived in the United States This is what happened under the Biden administration, right with CBP one, where they they effectively use CBP one as a metering ool The metering tool because they and the Trump administration have both defended Title forty two was completely insufficient to keep up with the backlog of asylum applications. And so people entered between ports of entry, right? Thousands of them I reported on this a very great deal at the time There have been many other forms of metering. The Obama administration did metering. That's when this case began. CBP one, the migrant prrotection protocols, many others, right In every single incidance where there has been metering, we have seen that people enter between ports entry We have seen escalations in border deaths. With wall construction continuing. Many of the places where people previously entered are now closed Um We will see more people entering along more risky routes and that will lead to more deaths. There is no doubt in my mind that this decision will kill people Also the people who do remain in Mexico. will in many cases not be safe there. The amount of migrants I know personally, like people who I talk to Once a week, once a month who came through the Daring gap when I was there, who we traveled together and then they attempted to apply for CBP one and were robbed and were sexually assaulted kidnapped, killed while they were in Mexico. is more than I could. count off the top of my head This will have disastrous human rights consequences All right, we're back and we are back to talk about birthright citizenship versus Barbara In this decision, the court held that quote, children born in the United States to parents are unlawfully or temporarily present are, quot subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, and are citizens at birth under the fourteenth Amendment citizenship Clause The court was a bit split on how they got here with a sixty three majority holding that Trump's attempt to remove citizenship by executive order was illegal and a five four majority agreeing that it was unconstitutional Actually, I spoke about this just before we get ono this with Robert and Sophie in November of twenty twenty four talking about like. things that Trump administration might do, here we are Here is the relevant part of the fourteenth Amendment if people who aren't familiar,ot All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside majority of opinion somewhat based in Juicelli. I think thats I say it, Itential s sorly yeah. I did Latin. I mean, the good news is that Latin is nobody really knows how it was. Yeah, sure The bad news is that people still have strongly held opinions Well, there's ecclesiastical Latin and one. But like when if you take classical Latin, there's not a pronunciation school Yeah, but Juice solely is fine. When I did my GCSE exams I't do Latin oral like I did for French. The idea here is anyone born here is a citizen unless they are not subject to jurisdiction of the USA. Qualify has generally applied to diplomats and their children. That is the main group because someone is here in an undocumented fashion, they are still subject to jurisdiction of the USA can be fairly obicely understood from a plain text understanding of that phrase, I think Let's hear Mike Johnson. I guess Mike Johnson was in a presser when this decision came down And someone got to tell him What they rle? Here we go. were temporarily present are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and our citizens atirth under the fourourteenth Amendment citizenship Cause.. What's your reaction to that? Well This is real time. I need to read the opinion, okay? But obviously that's, I mean, you could say that's a textualist originalist. you However, I do think that this has been grossly abused in recent years. He's so pissed's so piss. H little growl. he's so mad. And the joy in that reporter's voice as he realizes he's going number one, I get to be the person to read the opinion out. to fucking Mike Johnon. And number two, I get to ask Mike Johnson for a response which is beautiful. I'm so happy for them Yeah And as he said, right, like a plain text understanding of this is all you really need. a textual misunderstanding for sure Very clear. Yeah, So there was a discussion of the Wong Kim At case which ruled that quoting here. A child born in the United States of parents of Chinese descent who at the time of his birth are subjects of the Emperor of China permanent domicile and residence in the United States and are there carrying on business and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States by virtue of the firstirst Clause of the fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution. It's the first caause of the fourteenth Amendment that they read earlier, right It is important to understand the context of this case. This one Kim arrt case happened in the context of an assault on birth threat citizenship and Especially on Asian migrants, right? This is the era of the Chinese Exclusion Act, for example The decision in the one case was that the fourteenth Amendment was declaratory of the common law understanding of citizenship The decision holds that quote, aliens who travel to the United States for quote business or pleasure receive no quote exemption from the jurisdiction of the country The case has some very narrow exceptions for quote children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers born on foreign public ships or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory and children and members Indian tribes. It's not until nineteen twenty four that we get the Indian Citizenship Act, right? I thought they might have gone harder on that than they did but it did not Much of the dissent focused on the use of the word domicile and whether that was in the US. A but majority argued citing precedent and English common law, which is the basis for the law we have now in the United States, right Qote There there is scant evidence for this dramatically reficitionist view. Sources from seventeen sixty six to eighteen sixty eight defined, quote allegiance by birth, just as the British did as the tie or duty owed by one who is born within the dominions and under the protection of a particular sovereign And quote, sources after the ratification of the fourteenth Amendment do not put in doubt the understanding of the citizenship cllause at the time of and after its ratification Certainly the US has not used its domicile test for other things, right? Liket it doesn't use a domicile test, for instance, when it taxes its citizens extraterritorially It is not the basis, by the way, for children of citizens becoming a citizen, that is based on a law passed by Congress. that's not based on this constitutional amendment, right It is worth noting The way Trump's executive order, which was what was struck down here was written, it would have included people who are domiciled here based on any understanding of the term domicile that I think is genuine. like his was written not even in this sort of u more focused way focusing on what they perceive to be a weakness in that in that wong decision So who was the floater from the six three to the five four? The floater was Kavanagh. He opined that quote, Congress could, consistent with the fourteenth Amendment amend the law or otherwise I'm saying the law here, he gives a citation for the law, right Otherwise enact new legislation establishing exceptions to birthfect citizenship for children born to foreign citizens unlawfully or temporarily in the country But Congress has not yet done so. The law in question is the Nationality Act of nineteen forty says, quote, The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth person born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, and then Now the clothes f the down A person unknown of unknown parentthage, found of the United States were under the age of five years until shown prior to his attaining the age of twenty one years not to have been born in the United States he argues that Congress clearly did not want to make more exceptions than existed in the onene Kimart case and that they would have done if they did He says it is possible to ree examine the Constitution in modern context and look at the jurisdiction part again and have additional exemptions that would pass constitutional muster if Congress chose to change the law It seems like what he's doing here is like by disagreeing with the sort of constitutional interterpretation He is like giving the Trump administration a sort of framework to pursue this in the future if they want to. He's signposting it, yeah. Yeah. and like whether or not that will succeed is another question. Yeah. he's kind of showing them a sort of path. Yes, he is. Yeahah. he's saying if you want to do this, you could do it like this, in my opinion. Yeah. They are currently having some issues with getting all their representatives in the House on the same page on shit and m turns coming up A lot of the opposition to is focus on the speeches that pertain to the authors of the fourourteenth Amendment and the process sur passing the Fourth Amendment. It's quite remarkable how L what a fundamental lack of understanding about how the Constitution works, It shows, really. When the Constitution is amended We do not incorporate all of the vibes of the guy who wrote the text We incorporate the words. It is those words that are ratified by the states, not the person who wrote them. We do not endorse that this person's opinions are now constitutional The United States has a codified Constitution. It is the words that are codified in that document that matter. That's the end of James explaining Constitutions. Gorsuch, however, to your point, Garrison, about like Kavanaugh pointing in a direction Gor search seems to be of the other opinion here, he says that undocumented people living in the United States are incontrovertibly citizens or the children born to undocumented people living in the United States.ote, What matters isn't whether a child's parents are citizens, what matters is whether they and by law, their child at birth. have made this place their home and are thus domiciled within the United States Thus he's saying that non residence children could in his mind be excluded, but that anyone who is residing in the United States cannot be excluded. So he's kind of kind of halfway between on that, but it seems like his take would not align with Kavanaugh's kind of signposted way there I mean, yeah, it's on one hand, not Well, it's you know good, but not great that in some interpretations, this is like a five, four ruling even though the Constitution is, you know, in a plain text reading very clear This is also a very weird ruling because it's five four, but also in some ways six three. And also with Gorsit, it's kind of like seven one one. seeven and a half. Yeah. Yeah. like. Yeah I think once they get to a point where they're writing a dissent or a concurrence and they know whet they I think that's how it works, right? They write dissent after they've decided. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. thenen Gorsuch can fucking like have a go on a sit. go have his fun. Yeah exactly like he can nerd out on this shit. Well, that's why I he's my favorite Supreme Court justice. Not in terms of don't I don't agree with him the most. I don't think he's the best person. I don't think he's right the most often But he's always the most entertaining. Like he's always the most interesting guy to see like, how did you arrive there, Neil? How is the shift that things? It's every time. it's fun as hell Yeah, here's like a box of chocolates. you never know what you're going to get in the alorarch. But yeah, that is that is where we're at, I guess, with three major cases pertaining to citizenship And immigration. Yeah. a mixed bag, I guess This ruling was certainly a blow to the Trump administration. Another blow to the Trump administration is the ruling on mail and voting where the Supreme Court ruled five four in favor of counting valid mail in votes that arrive after election day. G glad we got a five four in favor of counting people's votes. Yes. On the election day. Glad that that's at least still a five four This case focused on a Mississippi law that allows mail and ballots to be counted as long as they are postmarked on or before election day and arrive within five days after election dayay A district court had previously ruled in favor of the law But the Fth Circuit reversed the ruling. findinding that votes must be received by election day But for the Supreme Court, Justice Ay Coney Barrett wrote the majority opinion, finding that, quote The election day statutes require the electorate's choice to be made on election dayay That occurs so long as election day is the deadline for individuals to vote, as it is in Mississippi. But the election dayay statutes do not set a deadline for ballot receipt. So, they do not prevent Mississippi from counting ballots postmarked before election dayay, yet received afterward, unquote Alito, Thomas andne Gorsuch dessented, with Kavanaugh joining their descent in part Much of this case rested on what ote unquote, election day means in federal law. The Republican Party, who was the plaintiffs in this case, among a few others, like the Missippi Republicans, the Republican Party, nationally, and also in part the Libertarian partarty, but mostly the Republican Party tried to argue that Because federal statutes use the term, quote unquote, election to mean that ballots are both cast and received. And by setting a day for an election then that also sets a deadline for votes to be received But as already stated The majority found that, quote, nothing in the federal election dayay statutes requires ballots to be received by election day, unquote Amy Coney Barrett notes that, quote Although the election day statutes refer to a particular day for the election Plaintiffs do not contend that everything must occur on that day. For instance, they do not object to early voting or dispute that officials may count votes and certify a winner after election day unquote. In this case The Republicans aren't even directly challenging. absentee voting as a general practice Their argument to restrict the counting of some absentee ballots. quote unquote relies heavily on historical practice, precedent and policy. fromom the mid eighteen hundreds because That's around when the first two federal election statutes were enacted Basically during the Civil War, States that authorized absentee voting. did impose strict election day deadlines for ballot receipt. The opinion notes, quote plaintiffs admit they cannot precisely tie this historical practice to the text of the election dayay statutes, unquote So to quote Barret, The Republicans' theory here is quote, because we are governed by nineteenth century election day laws, We are also governed by nineteenth century voting practices cararried to its logical conclusion, this theory would call into question the way modern elections work, unquote And she goes on to know how this would jeopardize everything from Voter qualification to early voting, to how we count votes Despite the Republicans' focus on this like nineteenth century lection day practices because that's around when the first two election statutes were enacted on a federal level The Republicans Also ignore. Right after the third federal statute was passed in nineteen fourteen, Mailland voting rose in popularity because of the First World War. And some states started counting absentee ballots that were received after election dayay. So their argument both doesn't actually refer to real federal statutes but also is not consistent Ultimately, Barrett writes that the quotequote defining element of a quote unquote election is the electorate's act of choosing a candidate and that an election day just sets the deadline for making that choice The electorate's choice is made when voting is complete, not when ballots are received, unquote Per federal statute, the deadline to vote is election day But the deadline for when ballots must be received to state law. Like what this case focuses on is the Mississippi state law on when ballots can be received. That's a state issue Finally The Republican plaintiffs tried to argue that requiring ballots be received on election day or by election day helps protect election integrity and increases voter confidence in election results However, Barrett notes, quote Policy arguments are properly directed to legislatures, not courts. The question today is not whether requiring ballots to be received by election day is a good or bad idea The question is whether the idea has made its way into the US. Code regardless of whether Republicans think this is a good idea or not, as Barrett says That would be a question for the legislature and not one that can be decided on in federal court because it has no basis in federal law So the birthright citizenship and the mail and voting ruling are to that Hmper the executivive's power or go against the agenda of the Trump administration But there was a few other rulings that also relate to executive power. Mia Wong will cover in this special segment So let's talk the executive branch, federal agencies, and presidential power Now in addition to the other rulings that we're talking about here, we also got an absolutely wild paring of rulings. in Trump versus slaughter and Trump versus Cook, which were both written by Chief Justice John Roberts, and which established T. The rather astounding legal principle that the president has complete power overver the jobs of the heads of independent executive branch agencies except the ones that Chief Justice John Roberts likes personally understand that that is a provocative statements and I'm going to ask you to withhold judgment until we get to the end of the second ruling because Oh boy, it's a doozy and I am fairly confident you will agree with this opinion by the end Let's talk Trump versus slaughter So Trump versus slaughter is a case in which the Supreme Court slaughtered a ninety one year old president that was set in a case called Humphrey's Executive v United States In order to allow President Trump to fire the heads of a broad swath of independent agencies irrespective of Congress's specific instructions regarding how those heads could be fired F to slaughter began after Trump fired federal trade commissioner the FTC Becca Kelly sllaughter without cause. I'm going to quote from NPR here. as they point out, quote Since its creation of the Federal Trade Commission FTC in nineteen fourteen Congress has held that commissioners can only be fired for quote inefficiency, negligence of duty or malfeasance in office, E quote Slaughter was presented with no such reason for her removal, only told her quote continued service on the FTC was inconsistent with the Trump administration's priorities. Now There is an obvious legal precedent here precedent that I described earlier Because FDR tried to do literally this exact same thing in the nineteen thirties. He tried to fire The FTC commommissioner for political reasons. And the nineteen thirties Supreme Court ruled in Huffrey's Executive versus the United States that in again, this exact same scenario The president trying to fire an FTC commissioner for political reasons that this was in fact illegal because the FEC is an independent agency whose functions are, you know, outside of the executive And thus, the president does not have the power to simply remove their heads at will This nineteen thirties decision, right is a decision from the notoriously right wing Hughes court facing a central left president In the nineteen thirties, it was important that the state be able to operate independently of FDR to prevent FDR from giving too many concessions to workers Now In twenty twenty six also fanatically right wing Robert' Court saw a fascist in power and decided, No, actually, the FTC is an agency that does executive functions and thus is under the control of the presidents because of the unitary executive theory which is, you know, a theory that the president should have complete control over everything in the executive branch, even agencies that were explicitly designed B Congress to be independent and that this theory is good now because a right wing president is using it This ruling allows Trump to wield unprecedented power over the American state Many of these bodies, you know specifically we should talk about the FDC here, right? The FTC has a cap of the number of members of the commission that can be from one party Trump can now simply ignore this congressional mandate by just firing all the Democrats and leaving only Republicans As MPR reported, here's justice Sona Sotomayor in her disscent Qote, The court gives the president a power unknown even to the English crown against which the founders revolted elevating him above his once co equal branches by transforming a duty to take care that the law be faithfully executed into a license to act in defiance of those very laws. Notably courourt also ruled That this unitary executive doctrine, right, this doctrine that the president has the right to fire the heads of independent executive agencies and independent federal agencies, that this power does not apply to the Federal Reserve and thus Trump cannot fire Federal Reserve booard member Lisa Cook becausecause of some extremely nebulous logic about the Federal Reserve being the successor to the first and second national bank of the US which establishes and I quote, our nation's tradition of central banking protected from political interference No way Qote, ourur nation's tradition of central banking protected from political interference differs even conceivably from our long standing tradition of protecting the FTC from political interference other than that, you know John Roberts likes banks and the first and seconde National bank are older than the FTC. And by the way, never mind here that Roberts himself admits that Andrew Jackson literally vetoed the seconde National bank out of existence, which Reed's making his arguments about the history of protecting central banking from political interference reed like a bad joke. genuinely cannot understand How the FTC is supposed to be different As an independent federal agency He thought a roer Also worth noting that the first and second National Bank We're not modern social banks. They don't do The modern central bank stuff. Oh God Here is from a source that would know The Federal Reserve does Because it's the Federal Reserve. It's part of a thing that they wrote in their one hundredth anniversary history project Qote And again, I can't emphasize this enough this is the federal Reserve itself from their one hundred year anniversary History project, quote, Unlike modern banks, The Bank of America did not set monetary policy as we know it today. It did not regulate or act as a lender of last resort for other financial institutions, and it did not hold their reserves. What the fuck are we doing here It is also incredibly charring D Read Roberts go from talking about how the president has total authority that chooses subordinates in Trump versus slaughter to him going, Well, we can't let Trump have at will employment of like the heads of of the people who work for him ically of the Federal Reserve it's absolute legal gibberish that only makes sense for you take into account what is actually going on here Trump versus Cook was a five four decision with Robertsts and Kavanaugh joining the liiberals Ingoing Jesus fucking Christ Almighty, we cannot give control of the single most important financial institution on Eth directly to Donald Trump Why are you saying this as if it's fact and not speculation? And to be clear, this is technically speculation, but I'm going to read this from Kavanaugh's concurrence that serves as an explanation of why he joins Roberers and the liberals in agreeing that the president does not have the power to remove a federal Reserve board member without cause when he, and this is notable also did also agree With Roberts when Roberts, in the other case said that he can remove an FTC board member without cause Now here's here's Kavangh, quote. I agree with the court, moreover, that we should not leave open the question whether the Federal Reserve can remain an independent agency in the wake of slaughter After slaughter, there was a clear choice. Either the Federal Reserve may remain independent With the governorors removable for cause, not at will, or it may not Leaving that question open would create significant uncertainty about whether The court might soon eliminate the Federal Reserve's independence and thereby expose the Federal Reserve to political influence and jeopardize the efficiency of U. S. monetary policy Even temporary uncertainty about the status of the Federal Reserve could spark political upheaval, including confusion about whether the president could immediately remove multiple governors at once, as well as turmoil in the US and world economies I would not go down that road I would not risk destabilizing the U.S economy just so that we can further bll over an issue that in various permutations we have been thinking about for many years As the court's opinion explains in the government agrees, the Federal Reserve occupies a unique role in the U.S government and maintains critical responsibility for the stability and success of the U.S and world economies. There you have it folks As long as the presresident Does not fuck with the money this court holds that the president could wield executive power to fire the heads of independent federal regulatory agencies. We will be right back to cover a few more rulings after this ad break. And we're back So it's time for, I guess the less, certainly the least like upsetting portion of the Supreme Court rulings this go around, which is two different rulings that involve gun rights. And particularly at least in one case, I think a very commons sense ruling. One is a lot more controversial Although I do think broadly speaking, it's still a better ruling than not So on june twenty fifth, the Supreme Court struck down a Hawaii law that required people carrying firearms legally to get permission before bringing their gun into any private property open to the public This law had passed in twenty twenty three in the wake of the Supreme Court's twenty twenty two six three Brwin decision Now if you don't remember, Bruin ruled that firearm regulations must be consistent with the historic tradition of gun regulation in order to have any kind of constitutional standing Because Bruin sliced the heart out of a lot of prior gun control legislation around the country, particularly state level legislation, and particularly like bans on concealed carry, right? One the big things Bruin did is that it was basically impossible to get a concealed carry license in a number of states prior to Bruin. And after Brwin, states could no longer kind of arbitrarily make it basically impossible to get a concealed carry license, which is why you saw a bunch of states, including Hawaii, rush to pass a bunch of new laws. And these are generally referred to as vampire rules because if you remember your lore, vampires aren't allowed to like enter your Domicile unless you give them permission. So basically you're treating like legally carried concealed firearms as a vampire. That's kind of like why it got the term. As Hawaii's legislature said when they passed this twenty twenty three law, the legislature enacted this default rule in light of ample evidence that property owners in Hawaii do not want people to carry guns onto their property without express consent Now in their coverage, USA Today noted that the legislature argued their law was rooted in older Hawaiian legal precedent.ote In eighteen eighty three, for example, Hawaii's King prohibited anyone from having a knife, sword caner or their dangerous weapon, Hawaii's attorney general told the court Unfortunately, the lawyers defending this Hawaiian law to the Supreme Court also cited less pleasant precedent, bringing up the black codes and other laws meant to stop black citizens from carrying guns to argue that the US has an established tradition of restrictive firearm laws Neil Gorsuch in particular took exception to this. This law and similar laws passed in California, New York, Maryland, and New Jersey have all presumably been declared unconstitutional as a result of this ruling. They were already stayed here in California, so I'm guessing they just weren't. Yes. They stayed it pending this, I think, so I guess we'll die now. Yeah, exactly Gun rights advocates like the Fire Ams Policy Coalition cheaered the result The court explained that these laws did not merely regulate where licensed people could carry, instead, they severely burdened the ordinary exercise of the right to bear arms by forcing peaceful people to seek permission before entering the stores, restaurants, gas stations, pharmacies, and other businesses they visit every day. That burden the court held is incompatible with the Second Amendment's protection of the right to carry firearms for self defense as Americans go about their daily lives Yeah, you could feel about that one however you want. I think that's kind of like broadly reasonable honestly in my opinion Arguably a much bigger deal was the Supreme Court ruling last Thursday to change the way the federal government regulates casual drug use and firearms ownership For a very long time, it's been illegal to buy and own guns while doing illegal narcotics, even marijuana with a medical prescription This came out of the Gun Control Act of nineteen sixty eight, which itself was passed after Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert Kennedy Jr. were assassinated. It banned any person who is, quote, an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance from owning a gun. So when you buy a firearm the normal way up until Right about now, you would fill out a form called a four hundred four seven three and on it, you have to state that you're not a marijuana user or the user of any other illegal drug, and that you acknowledge even if marijuana is legal in your state and you have a prescription, you're still not allowed to buy or own a gun if you use it, right? like you have to acknowledge on the form, I know that my state's laws don't matter here And it's always been, you, even outside of this, very unclear just how far this prescription goes, right? Like if you are a gun owner who doesn't do drugs regularly, but one night someone offers you a hit from a joint while you're already drunk or like a bump and you take it, have you then broken the law? If you go to buy a gun the next month or the next year