Box Office Success and Legacy

J st The two asss I was by Jack Hey. Guess what Podcast I recorded one And it was three and a half hours long. Three and a half hours long Oh, becauseuse Sandylankton said they only run two hours tops. Sandy Plankton You think I would do an entire podcast and not know as much as Sandy Blankton? It was three and a half hours, not two So's it's the end of the It's one the last l'otional les. It does makes me cry too. There's like five different moments in this film at very least, get me right up onto the edge brink of the tear. To me, the big moment is just crash saying his age. That's the moment That's the one.es. Interesting beautiful moment It's so beautiful. This movie this movie is just filled with these little grace notes that are I just think so elegant that are like funny and charming and don't feel like they're hitting too hard. aggree. It is in my opinion This is like one of those movies that should be taught in every kind of like conventional Hollywood sort of storytelling lab or whatever. Yeah Be it's just it is an incredible setup payoff movie. U Another thing that's filled with grrace notes is the notebook of the character, the main character from Projectaail Mary Oh, because his name is Ryand Grace I think there's not enough discussion of the fact that Ryan Goslin plays Ryland Grace. Ryland Grace. because it's a Hil Mary full of grace, I believe is the Jesus Christ. I think that's what Andy Weir, who's in my opinion, a master of subtlety is going for there. I ennjoy that movie Yeah greatly And I think I'm but I'm now forced by law to knock it down a star Now that you've explained that to me. I mean, it's just my read on it. I mean, look, why do they why is it called Tinder? Speaking of whyy is it called Tinder? Does he get matches just And it's one of those things that I tell people all the time and they're like, that can't be true. And I'm like, that's literally why it's called that. Unfortunately I went' put that name and I twenty twelve. I amm required by law to go onto the app store and knock Tinder down to stars Becauseuse famously you rated it five stars in the app store. Perfect now. Only good things have ever come of it In my mind, there are only a few perfect apps, Facebook Twitter But yeah Yes. Truth social. Wh Truth social. Very good. I count Twitter and X as two separate apps. And both of them get five stars st. Right. It's Terminor actually versus Terminator two. Right X, I wish I could give it six stars. That's ' they improved on perfection. They did U I'm just saying that to invoke another Albert Brooks film made a fucking meal out of you're telling me Emma Mackie is Ella McKay We've gone too far. No one's saying Really, in this day and age in this economy, Ryan Gosling is Ryland Grace Oh you can't spell one without the other. They're just very similar It'sium u Iracky called Rocky. Yeah. That was also onene of our biggest movie stars. I would say now, he's maybe top ten, Ren Track What was Tony Erdmin called What was Tony Erdman called? Isandra Huller You know, be funny she's just called Tony Erman. I know that's not her name in that movie. Yeah, it's the dad's character's name What's her name in the movie? It'd be funny if she was just like, hello, I'm Tony Erman. I run Sandy Heller? Yeah I do think now we need to have her singing in every movie. I agree. Look, I mean, I assumed that was a reference to, you know Toti Urbman, right. That's Laorda Miller being cute, having her do karaoke and I thought that was fun. And also being like, hey, you know, she does this in a movie. It kind of like knocks everyone's socks off That's an effective move that we've identified that n work nine percent of the audience won't have seen. Like we all sit there pat ourselves on the back going like, o, interesting Tony Erdman referee. Maybe they should do Tony Erdman in IMax. Wasn't there gonna be an ill fated American Tony Erdman? Lena Dunnan and Dunham. Lena Dunham. Chillis Eosers. Yep. You were wrong. Lena Dunham was writing and directing Kristen Wig was gonna co star with Jack Niclon I didn't actually know that Wig was involved. I means the weird thing about that is it's like, don't do that, but I'm like Th the people to pick, I suppose It's also a movie. I would say on paper, Force Majure had this, but downhill didn't nail this where you're like, is a version of this premise that works as a much broader studio comedy I would not resent you trying to remake it and just doing the more obvious version of. Maybe don't make it two hours and forty minutes long or whver. Right. they have the scene with they' get there. Yeah. Nicholson was going to show a lot of dick. That's what I heard. Tony,' when finding get naked in that scene, right? Does he show up in the outfit and the animal out in the beast down? That's the very end. Yeah, that's the end. There's she's naked and the younger woman that he's with. boss is the boss shows right the boss is naked. Maybe he's not naked. I think Tony Erdman, yeah. Do you know that the younger naked woman And I already present framing it this way. Hear me Do you know that an actress? I love Tony Adman. So so good. Do you know that actress? That actress co wrote malignant And I was like, why did that happen? I married B Su. And then I dug deeper, she is married to James Wang Wow. Hang. Wow engaged to him in twenty nineteen Tony Irban came out in twenty sixteen, maybe he saw it was like, who's this beautiful woman And what movies could she possibly have in her head about monstrou skull creatures? It is funny that she was like, you know what I've always been thinking about, what if there was face on back of face? Yes What if she had one extra face? One extra face does martial arts. plays in Aquaman in the Lost Kingdom. Yeah. And she's in all his movie. She's in the Nun. He didn't make that, but yeah. But she does she has a screenplay credit on Malignant, right? She sure does. Yeah. And that is a delightful screenplay. That's a well written film. Another film that should be studied in schools. That's a great film. The only problem I have with that film is it came out in the deep pandemic and I kind of don't remember it as I need to rewatch it You know, that was a project popcorn movie. I saw in theaters and I overheard one of the worst post movie conversations I've ever had two bros at the urinals saying like, dude, is that like bad on purpose? Like he needs to have his filmmaking license revoed Like, how do you not understand that you're making a movie that is like literally bad And they just kind of kept stewing in that zone I have no patience no for people who view things like malignant in that way. You just don't deserve movies. It's not even mean you don't deserve nice things. You don't deserve movies. I deserve all the movies though, including the movie Finding Nemo In my opinion, a perfect film Yeah, I almost think we don't deserve it as humanity. I think it's the ten We deserve it in twenty thirteen. I mean twenty three We needed it in two thousand three. I don't know if we deserved it. It was like the dark Kight. We were in Iraq. It was the hero we needed, not the hero we deserved. We were in Iraq. I was seventeen years old. I saw this film in. America you're on vacation. On a holiday. On holiday, I saw by myself, I'm pretty sure at the Regal Union Square. And I'm sure you spent the entire movie fuming. You know yes The consideration showed towards the Australian people. Oh my Godd, I didn't even make the connection. How can fish w want to go to Sydney? A David Australian corner. Iess land. I would say this movie does not make Australian humans look good The only two speaking Australians are the dentist and the granddaughter both a little bit ag most horrific. The dent is a fun guy. He's kind of fun. I guess he's sort of He's kind of the classic dentist. like I think the humor of that is really good where he's like How you do doing? just like tortured people all day. Now David's whipping the stereotypes back off. Well it's talkks slide. sureure. Oh you know it might Yeah. Do you think the dentist should realize what's going on with Darlen? Stop giving her fish I guess he doesn't know the f. This is the thing I really like. I't know that like Aliceon Janny could voice one of these things. It's the thing I really like about The Toy story, certainly the first two Toy Story One has this. This has this. some of the Pixar movies have this, but this is a movie in which no one is consciously A villain Uh, yeah. I guess you're right Becauseuse like the conflict even the sharks are nice. Yes. And the angler fish doesn't really have consciousness. That's not a sentent fish. Although Becca point like what's up with that? Why doesn't he? Well, there's also we learn that they there exists in the ocean heading zoos with snails. Yeah. So snails But then like little shrim. There is a. I love when a Pixar movie just has a fun joke because they're like, that's a fun joke. And then like twenty years later, I'm like, but I don't how does this fit into their theory of consciousness? Yeah, this works into the implications of like there being a car's pe. David, David, I can explain it. It's very easy The witch from Brave carve twenty wooden sculptures. E each of them give him Well aware. Do they arere they still doing that with like You know, like, LO will come out and they're like this into our grand Pixar unified theory. Well, EO just exists like present day Earth and present day space. Yeah I guess recently they've been kind of hitting Here, Griff, let me tell you something and then we'll intduce the show. Okay. I just wantan tell you one thing. Okay. I was at the bar last week with my friend Caitlin, co host of Hitss different My baseball podcasts. podcast. It's not a secret want to listen to it watching the Mets game and then they're like Hey, we're doing trivia. Hey, you want to do cheeto, they? like They have a sheet. This is kind of how you and I became This is true. close friends. And I was kind of like, proro you're a sports part. We don't need tr like yeah, pick a thing, right? Like I'm already watching, but okay. and They're like, there's four rounds and you get to double one of the rounds and you have to pick, we'll tell you the categories now. L like daily double, you make it double or nothing for the the value of Franklin Park doesn't too. wasn't the bar was it was ninety nine Rogers not Franklin Park.. same same region. And so he's like the categories are going to be like this one's music, one And then he's like the category three is animation. And I said to Calinn like, we're going to double that one. Caitln's like, really, I'm like, I'm pretty sure you're now that And it was twenty questions, Write down every Pixar movie, no sequels. Yeah. So write down every Pixar movie excluding the sequels. There's twenty. Did you break a sweat I didn't. I was like, okay, great. And I kept c And I got eighteen. Do you want to know the two? I forgot. Like then I run out of steam and I'm like, what the fuck? You know, like, didid you forget LiO? Nope, had Eio does Lightyear count as a sequel? Noes, Lightyar counted as a sequel. He didn't want lightar This is tough because I'm like the ones that arel Did you forget Soul I did not forget so. I'll give you a hint. One is a bad and somewhat forgotten pixar. A good dinosaur done which I've seen many times and yet still I was going say, I assumed you'd remember that one because it is the shorthand easy punchline bad pixar. Yeah. even then ananymity still heard it. The other one is one of the most iconic Pixar franchises, the worst one, but nonetheless, a huge is correct. You forgot cars Isn't that crazy? just because like cars suck so bad that I kept I had fucking Eio. I had soul. I had d. two thousand six that I didn't see cars in theaters. I'll tell you that. I still haven't seen it. You that actually I' se. My daughter never got into it. like she never she's seen it, but she never yet, although I don't know, it hasn't really happened. I don't know. She still hasn't watched any of it. She's seen cars but doesn't like it. off Lightning McQeen. I love love the contest of light Mak on the and B ji and doct holiday or whatever. I love the concept of all these cars. I just haven't seen the movie. Surprised, it feels like a thing you would hyperfixate on because there's like a lot of rabbit holes to fall down in the cararss universe of just lines of thinking Not even like actual things to study. That is true. Well I love those like I'll watch a YouTube video right Sone Yeah wanting where they connect it all and Cars is actually sci fi posting That's the stuff to me. I mean, some of that's interesting to talk about No, but it's too literal. Yeah having to make it all. I just think like in the way the center their world The way that you're saying like, oh, they have a petting zoo with snails, like what does that mean Cars has seven things like that in every singleame Every frame. It's so true. Right. And it's not stuff that like Pixar people are digging into online. It's the kind of stuff that like William S. Burrroughs would spiral over at a bar. You know what? Maybe if it was a movie called High spepeed Rail, G Thank you. exactly. Yeah. Maybe I just Bidance' in it cure Biden video that came out yesterday where he's like, doesn't this guy look like Obama and he just brings a black guye on stage? But then the thing that makes should be standing on the other side is he looks like him just enough just to be the funniestight. I mean, it's like he brought out like an eighty year oldan or something L what's going to happen? right? Yeah. You think it's just going to be like some You know, like random person in the crowd, Ryden is just being senile. He' bring like Earon Pierre on stage Lanterns. They're gonna solve the crime with their power. Where are the jackets? Mfasa You don't need to P jumpsuits anymore. Dress like a person. here was the voice The Jackas.'s young well, he's like Jf Middle Mfasa Right. And then because young Mufasa sings my favorite song in the world, which is called The I always Wanted a Brother song. I always wanted a brother. You don't remember that? not I have seen Barry Jenkins Mufasa The Lion King. I'll admit it washed over me pretty fast. didn't I didn't, you know, it didn't really retain my. I'm making you listen to the song J. I still did not listen to that watch that film But the trailer only had one snippet of a song The song's of course written by a friend of the show Lind M andell Miranda. Isas it the Mads Michkson? No, it was just you heard them repeat. I always wanted a brother like five times. You always wanted a brother. So it was kind of meme It was one of the many hooks in that song. Al always wanted a brother. U Bye bye is a song. Yeah, that's Mad's Michkelson's villain. It is a little insensitive of you to invoke hooks on the Findingo episode because of course, those are the true unseen villain. Yes, man, like Bamby. The hook. The hor hook like Peter Pam. Yeah If you went hand fishing Cook fishing I've lost I sure I'm sticking a worm on that. Yeah. This one say the dentist benevolent. He's not fucking catching Nemo frying him up He thinks he's just like my little my little n. to have fish. He saved him. He's like there was this little baby clownfish all alone and I like rescued it. Yeah, That's a little bit of a savior compleplex thing where it's like Oh, I mean, he was in the fucking water. L found. sure. Okaykay. He saw the poster He was found in water. Challen's accepted. But you're right, there's no real villain. The closest thing is Bear Bruce the Great White Shark and he has worked to overcome his villain. That's like a sequence. Annglerfish is a sequence in one hundred thrilling Perfect funny sequences. Yes Yes, exactly. one hundred thrilling, perfect, funny minutes. There are contained a hundred mines long. seelf contained conflicts. withithin the larger conflict, which is just how do you get across the fucking ocean I think this movie sets up so perfectly. The moment that Nemo's taken You just start doing the math and you're like, how could he possibly find him? It's sort of the Pixarth magic of the moving truck drives away Yeah And Woody is but a tiny little man. Right. hell iss he going to get wherever they're going? I think this is the simplest and most extreme version of that where you're just like I don't even understand how he could begin to make contact with him. to locate where he is to scale that distance I'm getting emotional you saying that is thinking about everything that Marlon and Dorory accomplished. It is the movie the moment in this film that makes me cry without fail every single time is when Nigel recounts the news that has That's a lovely moment It's a lovely moment done well by Oscar winner Jeffy Rush. Y a Pelican called Nigel. And Oscar nominee Thomas Newman kind of go hard in that moment. Oh the score. hisis eyes widening as Nigel's story goes down in the mid of his dad's terris. see him pantomiming all the things that have happened in Nemo realizes how much his father loves It makes it gets me choked up just thinking about it. And todayoday we're talking about finding Nemimo, which is one of the most successful movies in history What is this miniseries called? tellelling you what it's called. Please. I was talking about it with a guest who will be coming up on this minieries I'm not going to say And I said, I've had this one locked and loaded in the chamber, no need to pitch.. This minieries is called and it's not going to work when I say it out loud, but it's really going to work visually spepells. This thing will spell. Padzy. P O D D hyphen C I love it Id see. Ione else are you going call it? We're not going to call it Podting Ne cast. Right or Finding podcast, who cares? Potoding casto in the of a cast Hoting Casty. That's that's what was pitched to me. And I said I don't think that's what's Podsy Podsy, great I love it. We're discussing here on blank check the Carter Pod Carter. Name it after Carter most famous, memorable, beloved film. You know what I also like about calling it Pod Carter It implies that it should have been called Podcarter of Cast and then the of Cast was cut out. That is fun. It could just be podcaster, but then it would be impossible to tell what that eventt Right Right. But also it's to pay respect to John Carter, it has to be the version of the title that doesn't really work We here are discussing this summer, this lovely summer that we're I assume having. The films of Andrew Stanton. I made S films total, I believe. Yes, twoo of them released in twenty twenty six alone Yes. Yes, a man after our own hearts. This this is blank trick with Griffin and Did. I'm Griffin, David podcast about philographies, directors who have massive success early on in their career, such as releasing findinding Nemo, what at the time was the highest grossing animated film in history The highest grossing film Disney had ever released in any division And I believe it was at the time, the sixth highest grossing film in history. I know you always get angry when I try to get you toious. pull up these. what was the record at the time can't I did some research, I found fucking wayay backack machine archived box office mojo pages It was the sixth highest grossing film of all time I remember when this film beat the Lion King to become the highest grossing animated film of all time Because there was a big fight on the Oscar Watch forums about which was the sort of more worthy film for that title. Yes. Like some people like, ye, this sucks, like this stupid, you know, fish movie, Lion King' so good. other people like Yeah, Lion King's. I remember He was a fucking masterpiece. It also was humongous overseas.. In two thousand three, it made, I believe eight hundred fifty Million dollars worldwide. Yeah, sounds about right. And the number two of two two thousand three. The only movie that beats it is Return the King. and Return of the King becomes only the second film to ever make a billion Can you name the animated films that since dethroned This is what I was this is what I was trying to do the math on, right? Because it has the record for a year. It kind of like blows the ceiling off of what an animated film can do, especially globally And then Shrek beats it a year later. It beats the opening weekend record. Trek two Trek two. Sure. Threk two beats it domestically, beats the opening rec weekend record. R. Trek two becomes third highest crossing film in history at the time. We love it At the time, I think it was Titanic Star Wars and then Shrek two domestically And of those I know my favorite. Now, I would argue this is the beginning of I say this respectfully The Inidification of the all time top ten. Yeah, it just starts to be a lot of crap. It also starts to be like every year two movies enter the ten so the churn becomes so fast. Yeah. Up until two thousand three, it felt like there was a ten where you're like, of course There are two star Wars in there There's o There's tyes not adjusted. Not adjusted Be women? It's a useless metric not adjusted. You could look You could compare the two lists, but it also felt like the unadjusted numbers were like, even unadjusted ET is still bigger than most movies ever released And then everything starts kind of like Uurping. Sorek torones Srek to toetrones finding Nema And then I think Shrek two has it until Toy Story three. You're correct And then basically it becomes a sequel rally. This is the thing. Despakable with me too does well, but I think doesn't quite beat Toy Story three. And finding Dory overtakes it you have Dory, but u What about uh Yeah, that's no Dory never overtook Toy Story three, although this is a little complicated because A lot of re releases have adjusted these numbers somewhat. Sure. But I can tell you, Frozen certainly beat it. Frozen becomes the new number one Toy Story three domestically why. This is world world. Okay, okay.' not I don't have domestic. Okay. This is worldwide. And then It's sort of like Do we count the Lion King remake? This is the big question. It is's obviously its entirelyated. compomputer graphics and animation They tried to pretend it wasn't. I would argue it held the record, but only for a little bit. Yes, because frozen two no, line K actually grows slightly more than frozen two. And did Incredibles two take over at an incredible two's peak was two Okay, a second. But I do think incredibles two did take the domestic for a moment. Yeah. But then inside out to and Zootopia to and Nja two. R. Nja two is now the number one highest grossing animated film worldwide. It has made two point two billion dollars. And Zotopia two is the highest grossing American animated fank and also the best But this is I like that b. This is another thing. There were very few animated sequels until Shrek two. Theatrically Right. Shrek two helps break the taboo of like Toy Story two was an oututlier. Straight to video Disney sequel. Toy Story two is an oututlier, of course bumped up from homeome videoide to theatrical It's massive, but it doesn't overtake Lion King And then Trek two is the first sequel to take the crown. And it does feel like the stigma is off of doing animated sequels and then it's just everyone playing I don't know, it's a pon race between the fact It's crazy that they did rescuers down under. Yes. Eespecially when they did. That wasn't that what go ahead? No he knows. I'll tell you what the logic wasight. It was like Eisner and Katzenberg takeover Right And they're like, we want a sequel. They're like, we should do a sequel. That feels like a thing we should like our least beloved. But I think they were just kind of like rescuers is one of the only ones thatakes sense for their sequel. Truly. That's have a pretty definitive ending. That's the thing. What's wild is they were like, it feels like good business sense to do a sequel, but also we should do a sequel that doesn't betray the integrity of the original film So they still were making kind of like an artistically driven story decision where they're like, well, rescuers is a book series. It feels more episodic. You can just send them on another mission. Every other Disney animated classic feels like a closed loop. Yeah with someone getting married or whatever. Perocchio becomes a real boy or whatever It was truly like people Captain Hook is beheaded. whatever peopleople won't be insulted if we do resescuers too It won't be betraying the sameing. They should do Cinderella two and just like she got divorced. Well, they did two or three even straight to video. And one of them is a crazy time. Yeah one. O of them back to the future too shit People like it Oh they do. Oh Oh people like it do human I'm going to ask our guest, have you seen any of the directed video cinderellas I have not, but I'm sure I've watched some Jenny Nicholson or some such person recap them. Yes, Yes. I think it's called a stitch in time maybe It's a something in time. And the weird There are three a twist in time twist in time. E about They came out at the same time as all of the Barbie straight to video ones, which were also doing some very exciting things with the same. It does say unlike most direct to video sequels, this received generally positive reviews Pe like this one So it's maybe it's like what's the fairy Gother that goes back in time and like kills Hitler or whatever. That's why they like So yeah Foccus groups really happy about that. Do you know who wrote or I shouldn't say wrote, but but much like Malignant has a screenplay credit, part of the team on many of those Barbie's two thousands animated films. Can you give a clue he was played by Brian Cox in a movie I don't know. Robert McKee? Yes. Yeah. That's one of those things where Robert McKee's story, the book that everyone talks about of like this is everything you need to learn about like this three act structure. stududio Western, you know, popcorn screenplay structure. And they'd be like, what is this guy done? Why am I listening to this guy as an authority and you look it up and it's mostly Barbie animated movies where he was like a story consultant. Today we're talking about finding Memo Our guests Rebecca Alter. Rebecca. Hi. Is this your main feed debut? It's my main feed debut. And I'm gonna say movie you've been asked to cover on this show. Absolutely. I think this movie is tal a little better no offense Ben than look who's talking now Okay Fair slightly more successful has had slightly greater cultural impacts Talking animal movies though. This is true. I'm happy to carve Elaine. It feels like it is it is an interest of yours. that Is that fair to say? Yes. This is one of your beats as a journal. I guess so. U just other finding Nemo reccords, it is still the highest grossing physical media release of all The Fing Nemo DVD is like and part of it is just it comes out at the peak of DVD as a medium DVD went triple platinum in the built in minivan DVD player and My mom's accessibility of the video game consoles are adding DVD players. DVD players are in cars now, DVD players are in computers. else' in cars. Cars in the movie cars. I don't know if you guys caught this, a very insidious announcement to the baby cars. home entertainment. That's the most evil shit I have ever seen. They're doing baby cars. They announnce Ben and Becca, they announced this week that there is a Disney Junior TV show that's like babies with the Carss characters. wait, but Lightning had never met them before. I love that you know this much about the chronology without having seen any of the films. Well, do you know why? Why I love Radiator Springs in Disney's California adventure. It's one of the most beautiful places I've ever been to on eararth. So I said, I need to know the lore. Fellllow gentlemen of the Blank Check podcast, there is going be a good amount of theme perk talk on this episode. I regret to inform. I worn David in advance. brought like a sleeping bag I could just like curl up under or hammock maybe the caffeine. Hmmock on the porch. You're standing wide awake for this shit question about the cars. Yeah baby cars.es. Are they wearing diapers? No, they're just kind of squ They're like They're leaking oil They just like it's a good question. I guess. What's the term I'm looking for? Kawai, is that Kawai I mean They just make them squish and rounder in their eyes. their eyes are bigger. I mean, we'll see this with findinding Dory of course when they have Baby Dory, you know, like what is genuinely a billion dollar idea? like put Baby Dory at the beginning. it Dory small. It saved the say what I think the most consequential thing to come out of cars is on the entire culture. We all grew up with the littleittle Tk's red car yellow roof Uhu That was a car. Yeah. Sime after cars, they gave that car a face, like eyes and a face. And now kids grow up with that car being like like a person. Yeah they're inside. And I don't think That would have happened. This is not for c. Lightning racers looks like It only looks like ten percent cuter than the regular c. They actually looks identical, But I imagine they're going gonna to have little kid voices. But is this suggesting that like lightightning went to Radiator Springs as a child mater because like my c he's meeting them all for the first time. My understanding is that what it suggests is who gives a shit it's going to make trillions of dollars Much like Mumet Babies, which doesn't really make sense as anything other than a what if alternate universe. The series follows Lightning McQueen as he takes on fresh challenges and races around Radiator Springs alongside his old pal Mer This is just kind of like Like it's parallel. Don't worry about it. new friends are thrill seeking drag car pipes and mud loving monster truck Miles. Perfect. whichich is a great name for a car I mean, it sounds like the fucking movie cast is back. Owen Wilson, Larry the cable guy Bonnie Hunts so they're all gonna have grown up voices. They're recasting Paul Newman Yeah, well, he's dead. So I mean, that is the reason to recast him, right Im hearing this for the first time U Fighting thea best selling DVD of all time. It's also if you look at all the video game platforms of this moment, Game Boy Color has to GameCube It is like amongst the top twenty highest selling games on all of those platforms It is just a movie that kind of coincides with like mainstream American media and the tendrils of it all just like rise to the top We had the shharktail PlaySation two game, but not than Nemo And What happens in the shharktail video There was a level where you could make the Will Smith Fish dance to You can't touch this. Yeah. prettyretty good. Was it pretty awesome? Was it like Parapa the Rappa style dancing? Like dancing Revolution style dancing? So I'm watching a full gameplay w over here. That's the only part I remember, but we didn't have Sharktail on Home video and we did have Nemo. Yeah. kind kinda everyone had Nemo Dharktle came out what a year after Nemo. ye. I just remember being one of those things where like Nemo Which the movie we're going to talk about today. The waterventually effects and like the way it looks, it's just such a staggeringly good looking. It still looks incredible. I think it's maybe like the most beautiful movie Pixar ever made. Yes. And then Sharktaail comes out a year later and looks like a fucking Playtation game. Yes. like like the fish designs are horrendous, but all of it looks bad. But it also like there's like no water effect Right There's no lighting and you're like, how do they move? And it's like they sort of just walk upright in the water notot on the ground, not on the ocean floor. And they have like houses and stuff Yes. there's a there's a Ans and bug life.. Bug's life. Bug life. Bug life I'm using myself. Like they just like look distinctive. they were They were going for different things. And in fact, you could argue that the DreamWorks one is the more realistic looking. It's absolutely the more realistic looking one and it kind of bls it off. Yeah. Annt A Blue and Ats do not have just two legs, you know, like Right in the DreamWorks one, they have four legs and two arms. it's, you know, whatever It sort of was okay. And then like the comparison wasn't as drastic, I guess, is what I mean Uure Finding Nar Sharktail disaster. I saw thing Andrew Stanton said that really stuck with me, which he when they started working on this movie, he was like, the challenge I pose to all of you is I don't want to anthropomorphize these fish I want to figure out the way for them to be able to convey emotions within the physiology of how they actually work.. And it's one of these things where you watch this movie and it's like they create this rule for themselves that they hold themselves to And the movie really doesn't fucking cheat on it And it makes it all the more impressive how good I think the performances are in this movie And I speak of the voice acting, which is obviously like This is just an impeccably cast movie that changes a bunch of fucking careers and shit. But also the actual like character animation performances of the movie are insane. Who's your favorite The bench is so deep. It's so deep. deep, deep, deep. It's It's impossible Brooks is the reason this movie really works and we'll get into it. Watching it this time and this is a movie I have seen more times than I can count. I was really, really locking into the Dafe performance, which I think is incredible Who are your answers? Oh I was thinking more aboutory teacher. all day and night. the model of pedagogy. That guy is the best mis the way he diffuses. Various things. very to This' not the scen here And also when Nemo's trying to say mean and he's like, all right, kid, don't knock yourself out. You know what I mean? Like things like that This is to your point, Becca, though, it's like this movie has like one hundred and thirty perfectly executed bits Like any character in this movie that would be kind of just like a functional point A to point B exposition driver or whatever, they give a character game That is so efficient and memorable and charmening. Yeah where no one in this movie feels like they're just filling a spot. The games are clear and distinct and they're all like they all feel so satisfying the other the creature that they are. My other favorite is Alison Janny. I love love Pach so much. But this is what we're talking about, right where it's just like There's a chain of logic that is very satisfying of like what is the personality of a starfit And you're like, well, if she's in a tank. she suucks to the wall, she surveils. right watching. Right. And then what's the superiority complex she has about that? She basically becomes the know it all because her job is to be on watch. just love. And then who's the person who voices that will of course, get like the fucking lady from the West wing. Yeah. That's what her personality would be. Like all of these choices so satisfying in a chain of logic Everyone's incredible in this. Is anyone bad? No And like Bob Peterson, who you're calling out is Mr. Ray is one of the Pixar guys. Oh, I know. I know He's Rob.s my friend. He is Doug Yeah He of course was the original fire director of the Good dinosaur, the movie you can't even remember The fire director. Oh fire Fired Okay Because it was sun song. It became a pizz song picture. But that is the chaos period where suddenly like every director is getting fired, every movie's being replaced. Is Song getting a thir He's doing incredibles three. He's doing incredibles three. A little bit of a stepdown. It should be the next generation, and it's like Jack Jack's a dad thousandons old. If it's laughing, I'm laughing I don't know, mayaybe itll be. it'stally not. it'stally going to be Paddon in foru in my opinion wrote script. I know so that's cool. Like my guess is it'll be something where I'm like this resembles what I like about the, you know, all of this. But it, you know, I can it feels a little it can veryer frustrating. It's a little frustrating.zone has made This will be the third film he directs. We're going to talk about a lot about Pixar director careers in this series, a thing I studied deeply But he's directed three films. He's one of the kind of pixar brain trust top story guys who's worked on all these projects and he himself has voiced so many beloved characters likeike a meal and ratatoui. Sox who is arguably the only good part of light year. Sox is definitely the only good part of light. Like he's he's a really, really fun voice actor Noted Yes there. Gun to your head, can you name that character? I just remember that he's riffing on a level that's just sublime. It is. He does some shit with a pan I couldn't name any fucking character in Lightyear and it iss called Lightyear and stars Buz Lightear and I'm still like, is that character called Buzightyear? I don't I don't want you to call mental health hotlines on my behalf. but I did the other night fall down a rabbitole of watching Lightyear videos on YouTube. Well, it's the movie on about man on which the toy is based.t Beer I'm sorry, this is not a movie about the toy This is a movie about the real person, Buzly. The real person on which yes, the toy was based. Squirt in this movie is Brad Bird' son? I was about to say the little babyurle. Yeah. That's Brad Bird's son, Nicholas Burg. who Anders and heard him speak and was like, this is our generation's thumper Rrely do you find he might also be the, what are you waiting for to do something incredible, I guess, kid in Incredibles? If I'm not mistaken, Something amazing, I guess. Yeah I think that's him as well This is the cross pollination of all these things. This is a period of time where Pixar has been suuper tight and focused. Basically one like dream team of people working in all these movies. and for the first time, it's starting to spread out. They're starting to have multiple productions running at the same time You know, the first three movies are all directed by the same veryery normal man with really normal boundaries who just loves Hugggin And Pete Doctor and Andrew Stanton were the First two people hired Yes. They have their sort of initial fabled kind of like early What kind of movies could we do meeting, right where they like supposeed we're gonna to crack open Yeah, let's crack open the doors Alienware's back to school event is the perfect time to score top gaming gear with incredible features and Intel core processors to go beyond performance. Lord knows, I'm stressed about returning to school. You can save big on gaming desktops, laptops, and more. Start your Alienware journey with the Alienware fifteen gaming laptop featuring Intel core processors Smoothly game, live stream and multitask for hours on end. plus. Play through every game exactly how you want with customizable alien FX lighting across your alienware ecosystem, creating your very own gaming profile and more. We're talking full disclosure Finally, pair your incredibly smooth gaming experience with immersive visuals and sound by saving on sleek alienwar, monitors, headsets, and more the world deserves to know. This limited time sale awaits you now at alienware dot com slash deals. That's alienware dot com slash deals Basically, you know, Pixar is originally a computer technology company They're like we should have an animation division. someomeone should be fucking around with this computer animation thing and seeing if there's any money there. It's of course, a company started by George Lucas John Lassader is fired from Disney. where he was kind of constantly the guy who was next up to maybe direct a feature The one that comes really close to happening is where the wild thingsings are. There's an animation test you can see that's really interesting. Lassader, like when he saw Tron was just like this is the future. there's some future in combining these things, which Disney ends up obviously doing with like Beauty and the Beast and Lion King with their big setpiece sequences using CGI backgrounds Where the wall things are were supposed to be that He also develops brave Little tooaster, which is taken away from him which feels very spiritually Pixar. It's a movie with Pixar Juice, even if it's right kind of cheap and light on execution. Toy Story definitely feels like a refinement of everything he was starting to noodle with He gets fired. He goes to this computer conference. I think it's SigGraph. Yeah He makes the play. they hire him to be the animation guy. He's one dude noodling and when they finally go like We have some extra budget to see if there's more that can be built here. Who would you want to hire? He goes to his two Kallards classmates. Doctor who becomes the first person other than lastaser director of X our movie, Monsters Inc And then Andrew Stants the second. That's sort of the next phase is the anointment of you guys get to make your own movies This is true and Yeah, they're pretty good. Before I open the dooray, Bebecca, your experience the finding Nemo, you're slightly younger than me. Do you see this in theaters? Absolutely.. And I feel like everyone I've spoken to really remembers seeing it in theaters as well. I would have been nine And I think I loved it, but it was also a time when like every year of my life, like O new landmark animated movie would come out that felt like It was just a constant heightening because it was sort of like, Tail endnd of Disney Renaissance. Yeah and the early pixars. and throw Shrek into the mix, throw, you know, as a kid, it was huge ice Age into the mix. everyvery year there was a new animated movie that felt like the biggest thing in the world. You have basically concurrent with the decline of Disney feature animation. You have three new animation studios rising And it's still basically only like two or three animated movies a year.. It is so different than the current landscape where we're just inundated with shit. Yeah, and they were like really trying shit like inequality like way to one up each other. So even though I was I didn't see anastasia I was too young when it came out, like that was a really important VHS tape. But in from random third studios joining the m. I was gonna to say Anastasia is part of the kind of like nineties rush and there's the eighties rush as well of like Don Blleuth has left. Other studios are trying to see Disney's week. Is there a chance detrone Disney and be the default animation studio. And then when Disney rises again, it's even more of a feeding frenzy of Jesus Christ, they're making so much money. we should be in this business. But you look at those movies in the eighties and nineties and it's primarily either Feature length adaptations of TV shows, which are sort of their own thing and are often junkier and lower budget, right or It's other studios trying to figure out how to crack the Disney playbook Anastasia is very much can we do the Disney thing? When Toy Story comes out, it's like this absolute lightning bolt of like, wait a second, is there Act not. one kind of formula pattern for what an American animated movie can be while being seen as like A level, you know, highybrow And then I think Dreamworks and Blue Sky, these other studios are all going like, fuck, is there a chance to like define what your own thing is There's new visual styles possibly. there are new storytelling styles, there' new styles of humor Suddenly these things don't have to be musicals, they don't have to be based on fairy tales. Plus there's some stop motion entering Absolutely. Yep. I'll also say like even though I was like becoming aware of movies during the era that like people that some people see as the decline of the Renaissance.ure because of when they came out the age Like Tarzan is still maybe my favorite. This is thing that as, you know, I like I in media and whatever. I mean I'm like I know people who are a little younger than me and I'm like, right, Tarzan like I don't I saw that in theaters, but by then I was like, oh, the juice is out of this. I mean, Emma, Stefanski in our treasure P planan episode whereere I was like, right, I didn't even see this shit. And she's like, o When I saw this, I assumed it was the biggest hit of all time. Like Yeah, It was just a giant movie for differeifferences Tarzan was a huge h. Tarzan was a huge hit. Tarzan like But to me was Tarzan rips. Massive soundtrack. I mean, you'll be in my heart. Right Yeah, I don't mind Tar Han. I've seen it. My.' got the invisible touch Persal chias aside. Heran is like very well reviewed, right? It It was definitely it's a massive hit. Yes. The soundtrack is really like culturally important, but five or six months later Really culturally important. Yeah att the time it was fucking humongous We've gotten criticized for being like the Tz soundtrack obviously sucks. I'm pumping the. I don't think it sucks. I just don't think it was culturure It was not like a lion King level me. It was the second closest they had ever gotten to that And you'll be in my Tarack. wasas their last sort of like's a contemporary hit song of the nineties. They closed out. I don't care that much for Tarzen, but I just think these are objective facts. I think the tree surfing and the vine swinging looks awesome. This I mean like this is my bigger point is like big hit totally works. There is this sense of like, is Disney back haveave they saved themselves Five months later, Toy Story two comes out and it feels like the takeaway from everyone is like, Tarzan's the end of an era and this is the future. We all had fun with Tarzan., But like we're moving past this.. And then in the formula, it's no good anymore, right? In the two thousands, Lilo and Stitch is the only Disney feature theatrical animated movie that I would say unequivocally works. That is the only one. I know. I think Emers in the frog is that I'm saying financially, critically and test of time And personality was a disappointment at the time. It was att the box off fincially it was a little You've heard about what they're building builduilding an Isma coaster in Villainland. What? They're doing a pull the lever. What? Because they've downgraded from. It was going be a maleficent thing and I say Villainand. Here's a fun game. David what Whing Villain is from saying what Becca just said. fromr hearing her say that ' I'm like really bad at this. is it in just in Walt Disney Wor or is it in both? It would only be in W for now. because world's larger. There's more space. That's Orlando. And I know worldld has it's made up of multiple parts. Right. So I know there's like Apcod and Animal Kingdom and all. You name two Can you name the other two Is there one that's just kind of like Main Disney. Yeah, Yes. Could you think of what it's called? What would your guess be Disney Wor? No, I have no idea. Magic Kingdom. Yes, I did know it. I did know it. And then is like Star Wars world its own thing or is that within. Yeah, right. see, this is where they get. Think Think of the movies v Now the problem is this land has changed names many times. Okay Give me another hint. It was called Disney MGM Studios. It is now Disney Hollywood stududios. Yeah I would have accepted That's like would have accepted MGM. R. So that is them competing with Universal stududios. I get that. Is there another one? ECT was Waltz D dying know about EC. The Animal Kingdom was then competing with Sawor and B gardens. Right all ment. Yeah Okay U thoseose are the four There's the fucking water parks that I think back up we' on the sameage today don't fuckking count. That's not a problem. I still haven't ever been The villain worldorld is in the magic King correct. Yeah, it will be. Now why are that? Why are they doing that villains are popular The descendants. No no not no. What are they movies again? What are they competing with? The Dark Universe of course? Exactly. true Really? Is that universal open their new p their der where they reclaimed the name Dark Universe and applied it to monster theme park And so now Disney's like, fuck, they have a cool scary thing. We need a cool scary thing. Villain land All the rumors had been it was going to be built around Maleficence as the centering force. And they are sort of realizing like maybe maleficent like kind of old. Oh no, they still are doing Isn't that why they were thinking about The maleficent water eided Maleficent movie? Like they're always claiming they're going to do that. I mean that's part of why Tron Aries happened because they also had Bent hundreds of millions of dollars building a Tron roller coaster and they wanted object permanence for that franchise interesterest So Yma would be Its own rightide. It's not replacing Maleficent. Yeah, it's not replacing Maleficent. But this was announced after the first announcement. and I think there were conversations about them actually scaling back the scary on Maleficent. This this is the thing. Disney's a little cowardly about getting too scary. Em' more funny than scary. Do give them an easy out Right, likeike, but then it's just like Why you why are they love they just hur and something to do I'mooking up villain Empersons New Groove is a masterpiece, but it was not a major hit. Yeah, it was a minor hit at best R. It was not really appreciated at the time. Yeah. and then I mean, obviously like Treasure planlan Atlantas are just like complete belly flops for them. Home on the range is the last hand drawn And Lilo and Stitch is the one upswing there and it's the movie that basically sneaks through the cracks. and then that first CGI runs a disaster R. And then yeah, Princess and the Frog at the end where it's like, did pretty good. peopleeople liked it, but maybe even that underwhelmed. And had the pressure on it of can this bring back the Disney Princess movie in hand drawn? It does okay, but it does well, but the next year Tangled comes out And once again, it's like, this is the future. Here's our model. this is what we're doing. We've redefined what our sort of Disney an madeated movie format is. U But so that leaves the floor open for Pixar Dreamworks and Blue Sky to invent a new thing. And to really be like, rights it's all open game. And what Andrew Stan talks about is feeling like Toy story Monsters Inc and Bug's life all shared a similar vibe. The first three obviously, a lot of that's that they're directed by same huggy guy. Ls of lotots of hugg and Lassader But also that it's the one core team working on every movie. Pixar basically at this point only has enough employees to be focused on one movie at a time. Yeah. And when lastast yearder goes, Doctor, you get a movie st and you get a movie. they start expanding the crew and they're splitting up who's getting Peterson.. Who's getting Joe Ramant? who's getting Soing all these story guys. He said that to his doctor. Heo was like doctor, you get a movie. The doctor was like, I think should give it to one Do I am mo Wh wasn't Doctor Mario and Sper Mario Galaxy I was sure that I sent you a video, the theory that doctor Mario is legally classified within Nintendo's copyrights as his own character and not Mario himself. It would have to be like Mario has a cousin who's a doctor This is That's what the doubt should be disappointed about That would be funny. Why aren't doctor like, He's got so many pills. I send them whole color. I send you this TikTok video. I saw that someone pointed out in the first Super Mario movie, there was an empty seat at the family dinner table where Mario's dad's like, I don't respect you being a plumber And there's like a little nephew there his dad is missing. And the implication is maybe Does he hate his plumber son so much because his other son' a successful medical student? And if Mario's the last name, then his name might be Dr. like William Mario. This is the sh pe. No every animated movie and kids movie in a bad way is about like Weird dad angst but this is really groundbreaking and genius about weird dad angs. This movie is made by a dad working through his things versus I think a lot of animated movies and specifically illumination films and who knows why this is the case? feel very d to be about Yes. Well and also People who cannot get over, my dad doesn't respect what I do for a living which is a little limited as a story as an emotional arc unless you're digging really deep Finding Nemo feels like it comes out of a very honest place, and I also think all these early Pixar movies are really defined by these guys as young fathers You know, overgrown children people who went to the field of animation suddenly crossing this line of like, I have a kid And now I'm kind of like dealing with the existential terror of like, wait a second, I have to be a grown up. How do I raise kids properly What do I feel about how I was raised? What is the world I want them to live in? And also, they're in this insane industry working on these movies that are so intense that takes so long And they're all kind of fighting this like concern of, am I not spending enough time with my family? Sure. R Yeah. And it makes sense, all these workaholics like to give joy to all the children of the world, they must miss their own child's dance recital. R.. soccer practice So Andrew Stanps, I'm opening the doCA.. born nineteen sixty deecember nineteen sixty five in Massachusetts. He does he has a couple voices in this movie but one of them the lobster. The Boston loobster.. Born in Wellesley moved to Rockport because his whatever, apparently his dad was sort of like, Welles theses two sort of fancy. I don't how like rich and rich and white it is here His father, Ron Stanton was an MIT graduate founded a company called High core which the New Yorker says did confidential radar work for the Department of Defense. Cool. Andrew says that Ron was the classic authoritarian figure away from home a lot, kind of tight lipped Gloria the mom puts it this way. When Andrew had done something wrong, his father never needed to say anything. He'd just come and stand in Andrew's room silently and Andrew would tell him everything whosary. I mean, to what we wereing. Gloria is a fun mom. She was an actress who gave up acting to have a family and she loved, you know, to entertain and be fun All of this makes a ton of sense. Yeah. He lives at the intersection of weapons and and fun. Right. That sort of Pixar is right in the middle. To your point, Becca, What a relief that the movies aren't about this. Yeah, about my parents, right. Right. Right. My dad doesn't respect me being a plumber So Gloria, this is all from like a New Yorker profile of him I think for Wally is when they did this. There's also an incredible New Yorker profile when John Carter comes out that we will talk about extensively Johntercause it's twenty even It's right at the fulcrum point of Yeah, I think it's for John Carter. What's going to happen when this movie iss released? So his dad introduced him to science fiction, including the John Carter novels He was a rocket scientist. He had pulped sci fi novels throughout the house. He dragged him to like every single sci fi movie He it's not the culture stuff isn't just coming from the mom. U Stanton said basically he was a precocious little boy with like undiagnosed ADD who just like wasn't quite like a child prodigy, but was clearly like very like very energetic and creative and like doing lots of stuff kind of like without much encouragement He would make little skits with a super eight camera. He had a show he did with his friends called The Silly showhow. So it wass pretty good When you watch all the vintage Pixar special features because they were really at the forefront of DVD bonus material and showing so much of with every release like, here's more about like how Pixar works and pulling back the curtain, not just on the technical. But' so classic Walt. That's so wonderful world of Disney. This is part of why Lass year gets pushed into the is he the new Uncle Walt position. But you watch those things and I'm just gonna say this Istand is charismatic in a way that none of those other guys are. That's interesteresting. Andstand more like personality. He is just clearly like more of a people person versus like Lassador had always felt was kind of doing an impression of an uncle Walt. Yes. And Pete Doctor by his own admission is a pretty introverted guy. He seems like a pretty reserved. He's a kind of class animator.. I want to just like draw a thing and slide it over to you rather than talk And interestant and I think did a fair amount of like school acting and such when he was growing up, which I also comes across in his b mo silly show and the silly show, that he's a little bit more of a performer. He went to University of Harvford for one year, but then transferred to Cal Arts, Griffin's alum I dropped out, but yes So obviously it's part of the sort of legendary program there. A one thirteen that you just you know invoked earlier, but alsoies. I mean, that classroom, that era is also like, I believe Stehen Hillenberg who creates SpongeBob. Oh that guy. Brad Bird is there with them at that same time, even though he comes to Pixar later. I mean, it's like ten people in that year who went on to make a outsized cultural impact in animation He had been dating his now wife, Julie, basically since she was fifteen years old. She went to Georgetown They got married rightight after they graduated basically settled in Los Angeles Stanton worked in a sex education film starring Martin Short for Croyer Films, animated the Sperm Is this the journey of me Is this? comoming all the way back around to look who's talking? I think so. I believe there's an attraction. That at one point was part of EpCot called The Journey of Me. The making of mee. There we go. I've seen this. So yeah, it's a sex education short that played in the sort one timing line a body part of EpCot. Yeah, it was a Wonders of Life Pavilion, fair enough Like many college students, he wanted to work at Disney was rejected three times h But then he meets John Lasster and he had, I guess some student films. I had many student films that were luckily entertaining enough that they showed some at festivals that also had like Luxo and Tintoy the early Lassader shorts playing at them and they kind of hit it off. My favorite's the bicycle one. Redream Redsream. always liked that one. Yeah. Stan's a freaky clown. Stan' stuff is really funny too He also, I mean, I don't time might not be off on this, but I know he worked on the Ralph Backshe Mighty Mouse cartoon. Yeah. I mean the seexa Ed thing was I think also Backshey Studios or maybe Right Yeah, Mighty Mouse I think of B making something for like Right. This is this weird era where Bakshe's like trying to play a little more mainstream, but all the stuff he makes is just kind of subtly off and weird. Not that I think he's trying to be transgressive, but that he can't be normal. There's something inherently degenerate ing through That Mighty Mouse cartoon is like that and is fascinating. I highly recommend looking it up. Stanton, I think wrriting credits on the whole season and was pretty involved in that. Yeah. Can you watch the shorts Are those available? They must be somewhere, but Mighty Mouse is one of those things where I could not even tell you who has the rights I'm like, are the My Mouse rights owned by like Cst toothpaste through some weird conglomerations So he is Hired is Pixar second ever animator. Yeah. Obviously Pixar has been taken under the wing of Steve Jobs at that point Andrew happappy go lucky, they say, relelied on humor to get by He works on Toy Story obviously. that's his first Oscar nomination. He's one of the many credited writers of Toy Story. So let me just unpack this a little bit A, I think he is he's, as I said, he's very charismatic gu. He's very sociable. There's a story I'll tell later in this episode. that's kind of the thing that makes him as a filmmaker, but he is an incredibly anxious, somewhat cynical person. He talks about like the constant battle between those two forces within himself and trying to probably the battle between like his mom and his dad, you know, being someone who is avuncular and outgoing and sociable, but is constantly kind of like wrestling with these concerns. inside of his head Everyone at Pixar says that like Woody is him That's interesting. He says Stanton, he says he s can give rid of the quote. So he, Ben He came up with the character. was he was the guy who wrote Sid essentially. Right. And that Sid is the reflection of what he was like as a teenager. He liked to break his toys and then like remake them into new things. Right as creative projects. Right, whichich is back to this point I'm making of like Sid doesn't know he's a fucking villain in Toy Story. Andnderstand has always said this. He's like, Sid's a creative kid who just hasn't gotten to art school yet He doesn't have an outlet, you know Um kindind of like myth making here is Win Pixar they're sort of like, I guess we need to bring in an outside screenwriter, a Hollywood screenwriter. A number of people take passes at Toy Story in years of development. including similarly normal person, Joss Whedon One of the fake Coens I can't it's not E Tam Cohen, but maybe it's the other Joel Cohen spelt differently There are like four or five credited screenwriters on Toy Story Wh were most Joe Cohen therees,. Mostly other kind of like Hollywood spec script, punch up, rewrite guys And they kept having people come in. they'd pay them to work on the script for like a couple months. They'd fix a couple things, but other things wouldn't be fixed. They had never really solved it. Disney wasn't giving them more budget. And the sort of like myth making part of this is that Andrew Stanton goes like, can I just like try and see if I can do a pass? And Stanton sort of holess away with the script and is the guy who like finally fixes everything and cracks everything and makes it cohesive. and Pixar realizes like, oh, fuck, we have a screenwiter here We have a guy in house who knows how to do this stuff Um Especially after the infamous Black Friday screening.ure, where there was the very dark, very cynical version of the movie after mean where what he was like an asshole originally? Y. Katzenberg had kept saying like, I think there's a future with edgier, funnier, darker, more adult animated movies. and little did he know. He basically gets there with Shrek. Shrek is what he always wanted to make. But he kept sohing Pixar past their natural instincts And so there's the screening they show of the story reels right before it goes to animation. That's like a disaster where Disney's going to pull the plug on the movie because they're like, this lead character is like a complete asshole. This movie is just unpleasant to watch and they beg for three days to rework the film. And I think Stanton does a lot of the story heavy lifting and they do the just like Fuck it. let's get back to the exact movie we want to make they green lightight that conditionally and the film ends up happening as it is. But there is this kind of like Stanton's attitude mirrors Woody very much of constantly being frustrated but wanting to put forward the face of like, I got this under control I'm looking out for all of you. Right. Yeah.. Well, that makes sense. Yeah. So Jim Morris says he's the best sort of genius for story structure. Yes. That's one Pixar guy Michael Ardent, that guy you know, yes, says that he's kind of good at being harsh in a story. like he he'll say the thing that's not working or whatever. likeike he's more blunt. I saw him saying in an interview that that was a big thing from Steve Jobs Uh who, you know, in this era is still very hands on with Pixar that he was just like, people would get really turned off by how blunt Steve Jobs was He was just kind of ruthless and identifying what is the problem And what is the thing that needs to get done? R? Yeah someome of the other credits before Nemo obviously, he's also a co director and writer on Bug's life. Yeah, he's also the voice of Bg Zapper,ug one and singing Grasshopper two. In the Disney Parks. There is an attraction that is now closed called Tough to Be A Bug that took place inside the tree and animal kingdom and had a giant animatronic hopper that they didn't need to remove when Kevinpacey got canceled because Kevin Spacey refused to do the record. Andrew Stanton did it instead Andreer Stan does a weirdly good Kevin sppacey. And that was already one of the scariest things in Disney Parks without haa'ven even doing the voice. And it has been replaced by A horrible Zootopia attract. Interesting. Tough to be an animal. But the voicery No, I was just gonna to say c director in animation can mean a number of different things. Sometimes it means that two people are directing a film equally. In this era of Pixar, it's sort of the junior director thing Lassader taking him on as co director for a Bug's life was sort of to train him to be able to make his own film But he is by all accounts, kind of the main screen writer of a bug's life. And also when Toy Story two is saved from direct to video and reworked He is the guy who does that So across those first three movies, he is like the main writer guy Right, rightight. So Toyory two' got the credit. O course he's the voice of Hamm and Buzight, your Star C command, the addventure begins. Can't say I knew that Yeah, that's just in the opening. This is the thing. He's a really good performer and he would often do sound alike voices for when the stars didn't want to come do something like a wride or a commercial or whatever it is. He is the voice of Zerg canonically in Toy Story two. Yes. That is him. He's the real Zurg voice, obviously with a bunch of modulators on So Fing the has been swimming around in his head. interestnteresting use some words there So about a fish. U Since Toy Story, he says, he'd always wanted to do the ocean. He wass fixated on a child in his dentist's water fish tank When he was a w, he would look at a child Yeah, whichich was a weird way to see humans. What's the movie about what's what makes me care? He says he's in a walk withith his five year old son Ben and he has the terrible anxiety that he realized that his terrible anxiety was making him a bad father Let he kept being like careful, you know, like that he was like pulling him from running into the street and all this sort of things and he went like you should do that. Yeah, ye. But but it was the intensity of his worry that he felt, right And he was like, here's my day. I have, you know, a day alone with my son I'm going to have no good lasting memories of this because I spent the entire day concerned about everything he was doing. And not actually connecting to him And that's the real like germ of the idea I want to make a movie about that He also had seen an early cut of Lion King and apparently rememb' just slamming on it says like sort of shows what I know He hated the idea of the sort of circle of life of like,, we're all just part of this grand chain and we're all, you know, it's all helpful. He likes the Bamby idea of like It's a real scary predatory world. And he's like Nemo is set in the Bambi world. This is another thing that I really give him specifically credit for changing in the language of American movies, because I really think it starts with Toy Story Animated movies in which characters talk like grown upps where you're not dealing with kind of like mythical representational voices of reason, cosmic evils And so much of the comedy in this movie is just that it's funny that two fishes are talking in this casual way and that they' so recognizable as personality types But I think right, he's speaking to a very specific human anxiety rather than kind of like a larger just so stories type of lesson Yeah, without tipping too far into the like shark's taail like A, I'm swimming here, which I'm just going to say. Right. If they don't say that missed opportunity, Aanuck They do sound like grownups but and not in that dreamworks way, which is a different Yes, think I think it's that the DreamWorks movies start really iterating on other things in pop culture a kind of post modern metatextual self referential kind of way And what Stan sort of identifies is like audience will laugh if a character suddenly reminds you of a type of person you know, not an archetype in sitcoms, you know, but like a type of person with a specificity Um so Finding Nemo he settles on clownfish because he sees like a coffee table book and finds them arresting. I he's obvious like it's a great idea. He saw a picture of two clownfish coming out of an anemity and it looked like they were sort of hiding. And he was like, and it looks like a parent and a child He presents an hour long pitch to Lasser. Lassader is a longt timee scuba diver, because he's hugging the fish down there too. Unfortunately And Lasser says, you have me a fish. Yeah. And then he's like, how about a The other part of that story is bring it in, buddy. Anyone else want to join Stanton the Worry Wor planned an hour long pitch that involved him doing all the voices. sound effects and he had audio cues and like fish, that's a great idea. We can sell fish.. Truly, Colorful. Right. We also can't stress enough how big SpongeBob was at the time. R everyone loved underwater. But we were underwater crazy. Let's call out though. this is it's a little bit of parallel thinking. Like SpongeBob premieres in ninety nine There's four years in between Yeah. But the lead time on animation is this is around two thousand I think when this movie goes into production. Yeah. ye. It SpongeBob was immediately a hit like right out of the box Um, I think that was a little bit of them getting lucky with timing. Another thing, I think I saw Jim Morris say this that was unique about this movie is so often they would come up with a big idea at Pixar and then they would all sort of brainstorm together and then they'd hire an outside screenwriter or three or four people would noodle on it and they'd keep iterating and adding things to it until they finally got to something vaguely resembling a script Stan literally just sat down and wrote a script for this one It is like right after a bug's like differentiff from their brior. Yeah. you know there's other people now O people credited and all that, but ye yeah had a screenplay. But in a kind of complete vision way, it gets changed in regards, but it was like here's the arc of my story, Here's what it's about. Here are the major beats. However, we' getting to end. The problem was the tank story Like he had the search for Nemo stuff, I think, much more set The tank story kept derailing the narrative is how the other Pictar guys put it in this sort of initial pitch. Right. How does that not feel like you're cutting away to an inactive? Exactly, right The original script also the loss of Marlin's wife was communicated with reflashbacks in her first through the film. and only the thir weve talked about this on this podcast before. onlyn in the third act D you see that it was like this barracuda attack? Allow me to restate this. Please do it now. because it's basically the audiences were like, what the fuck, right? is so st It is the most important thing in Andrew Stanton's career and it swings back in a different way in John Carter in a way we need to talk about. So this is the thing that needs to be established. He as a guy who now in the time betweenween Toy Story and finding Nemo has gotten really serious about screenwriting and read the books and studied other movies and really tried to understand screenwriting as an art form was obsessed with movies that are able to do this as a storytelling device. Isn't that fun when a movie can kind of slowly tease out information and backfill it in multiple flashbacks. And so he just, that was the shape he conceived in his head of the movie starts with Nemo waking Marlin up his first day of school and yadda, yadda, yadda. And across the film, you start to get these flashbacks until you finally at the end realize Oh, his wife was killed by a barracuda, all the other eggs were destroyed. Nemo's the only sonny has left. And they would play the story reels for audiences, which are basically It's usually sometimes it's Pixure animator, sometimes it's the final cast actors and the voices lightightly animated storyboards, usually with temp music. just so before they do the expensive part of actually starting animation, they can feel the flow of the movie. play it and people are just like, we hate Marlin this guy drives me crazy. and by the time they explain why he has this level of neuroses, it's too late. The audience isn't on board. Right. And he keeps trying to crack it and he can't. And then he's just finally like, what if I just put all this stuff at the top It makes sense. I just do it. It's also really helpful for me because I can just not watch that with my daughter. Just skip right past it. But as you said, he was like, everyone was concerned that's too scary. You can't frontlad in a movie. And he said like, that's Bamby. Bamby exists and Bamby survives as a beloved film. Right. I think you need to like look the scary thing in the eye And the second he did that the movie worked other thing that happens is you know, if that's what you're going to say, but to him, it's story. What are you going to say There was a different actor cast. Well, we'll get to that. Let's get to that. Okay. The other thing for him is Dory. But I just want to say he has a TED talk around the time of John Carter, where he shares the storytelling lesson. He learned there of not trying to out clever yourself as a storyteller That it's important for audiences to have the emotional information they need to understand what's going on with the character And often if you try to be smart, or stylish in your sort of devices you actually it's alienating the audience. correct. You could just as easily because with this from the very beginning, you're like, Marlin has suffered. Yes, you know, You're rooting. It's an incredibly devastating thing And you under it works perfectly. It is so Elizabeth Perkins fis. That's the other thing. Like Elizabeth Perkins is great. Within thirty seconds to understand the dynamic of their marriage. a scary thing happens. you see his anxiety. like it's just And it also introduces you to like in finding Nemo and in the ocean, it's like Danger at every turn these fish' lives are very precarious. L we're gonna encounter a lot of scary creatures. There are actual stakes from the beginning. It's not just that this kid is lost. It's like the mother dies as do hundreds of eggs. At least hundreds of fish every day die in the ocean story to him kind of takes the film to another level. She bridges the two main characters. He was inspired by the structure of the novel Cold Mountain for this. So Dory's the Ren'ettworer. That's I asse he means by that David Reynolds, who's a Can writer and had worked on other pixar movies and Bob Peterson who Mr. Ray Right who hadn't written a movie for Pixar yet, but it's one of their main storyies. Exactly. like those are the other credited screenwriters. William H. Macy first cast as Marlin. They wanted someone with a lighter touch U Is the cited reason? Stan is always put It's never revealed until there's like a Pixar book that reveals it, right Stan always talked about the fact that they had originally cast a dramatic actor and it felt like it made the movie too heavy. He cast a guy who was funny, but comes from a dramatic background and that he felt like he was playing the anxiety too real and too weighty and it fought the comedy of the movie And he always kind of, in a gentlemanly way, never named who the actor was, but then said, when we brought in Albert Brooks, he didn't need to play anxiety. That's his natural state. and he could riff all these jokes on top of it and it worked Pixar touch. Yes.'s the one that finally puts William H. Macy as the name It's never really been verified, but it's basically been commonly accepted. That's who it was. It makes a lot of sense to be like Andrew Stanton thinks well wouldn't like u William Hitch Mace's character from Fargo in animated movie be the correct version of this. But that's a very dark movie where you kind of want to watch that guy suffer Um, totally. had It was making be in laws comes out the same session summer around the in laws, essentially He said He said he did eleven sessions of four hours each. That's all we had to do. Yeah It doesn't sound like that much to me. The other thing he said is that he basically would never read what was written on the page but then would improvise for like twenty minutes. He's really good. He's like, you can't get him to say the same thing twice He doesn't want to do line readings. But he because he's a writer and a filmmaker in his own right would look and be like What's the thing that needs to be conveyed in terms of story information in this line of dialogue? And then now I will give you twenty iterations of the funniest ways that could happen He's a really funny guy. And And Dinor. a good What he becoming Secretary of Labor or commmerce or something? In the country in which he was born and raised? We assume, we assume. Yeah. This is a dirty rusky. What if that was cut out? I fel like? He's becoming president. He could be like a Canadian or something. Canadians in the room with us right now? Canadians in the room with us. Hi, Rebecca. Hi. Okay Brooks comes up with the clown thing He comes up with the joke like that he can't do jokes. Yeah was Brooks's idea. Right Um Danson's watching Ellen, the sitcom Ellen. What's much better than the talk show Late nineties. Yeah And she kind of, you know, the Ellen delivery thing of like she changes her mind five times into a assault.ne line where changed the topic seven times and turned to his wife and said, I think that's Dory. Now Dory was written to be male Right. And speaking of this kind of like I in coming in and saying, how do we break the mold of what a Pixar movie is a little bit, right? That he felt like Toy Story, the two tooy stories inst Monsters Inc were all buddy pictures All had Randy Newman scores all had a kind of similar design language sense of humor. and that he really felt like We need to start stretching out what these movies can be so it doesn't start to become formulaic And I think There's a There's a way in which you can see finding Nemo's a buddy picture because it is Dory and Nemo on this journey together, but the nature of Dory is a character prevents it from feeling like that. I think they're going on a sort of buddy journey and I think it's Like one of my favorite things about the movie, especially in the context of what Pixar was before, is I love when the goofy one, funny one, stupid one is a girl. I think that was really missing in a lot of kids entertainment as the time. because at the time it was seen as like retrograde at some point or like and theyopp doing it. It's just like girls need to be like Perfect love. For the girl to be the hilarious comic relief silly stupid one is so awesome. And I still love that when that happens and like Ensemble sitcom or something like today because it still is semi rare And so Dorry, I think is like huge. I give him super credit for just being like, oh, Ellen would work for this. even if it is not how I conceived this. Obviously, you know, it's Pixar is famous for when they picked a subject being like, let's do a ton of research And let's find story discoveries from learning about the real thing And certainly they did a lot of that with a bug's life. He replicated that model here. He found the thing about certain fish have like five second memories. I feel like that was already a joke about the old Gold memory thing. And he was like, that's kind of an interesting character challenge could so easily be that's a character you meet for five minutes in one of many segments of the movie one bit in the movie. Right. Right. He gives himself like a real fucking tough challenge to. how do you make that the other character in the dynamic and not have it be annoying? You know who's pretty funny Ellen Den. Dory. Dory Rules. Story' amazing. It's a great bit. But I so and Ellen is so funny in this movie. it's great. So funny But like how does it not To write that character and perform that character where it's not frustrating that she's the obstacle in the movie. becausecause the actual goal of the film is get to Nemo. But then the person who's joining him in that goal, she's kind of not helping. Has her own dilemma Yeah. It makes it all the more satisfying when she can push through things. It makes every like win she has like so much more heartening. But I mean withter Marlin is a pain Totally. So what are we gonna to say back up? Oh, just not to skip ahead, but one of the big L fin that breaks my heart. Yeah Like as a kid, when he abandons her to your point, backa too have this character be female, to have it be an entirely a romantic relationship between male and female adult characters, they do not, I'm going to say this on the record. Marlin and Dory do not, I regret him Not only that, but you don't even wan to ship them. You don't w to ship them. not really. This is a great be a nightmare couple.. You don't wan to ship them. It's closer to being a surrogate parenting relationship.. Sort of Wh is why it helps Marlin have a narrative within the film and emotional arc of he's in trying to Dory safe realizing the things he's fucked up with Remo. He's realizing his parenting mistakes, but he is also Dory is also helping him overcome like, you know, like his anxiety, his sort of his executive function problem of kind of like never making choice. Just keep swimming, man. Like sometometimes you need someone who's just like kindind of positive energy. We gotta keep going, you know, L he'd never make it to Nemo in. And even with her condition, there's the fact that she is an adult means that he talks to her a different way than he talks to Nemo. Right. He can't be quite as patronized. And when she pushes back on him, he listens a little bit more. Yeah, he learns to trust Yes Dory roules. Dory's good Ellen's great Yeah, I love to order her lunch. ust that's what I love to do. I mean, this is and get it right every time. This is the movie that saves her career it transforms her career. The talk show premieres this fall after this movie is released. So obviously it was already in the works. Yeah, but she, you know, she has the failed second sitcom. Yes, two thousand one to two thousand two, which is called the Ellen showhow. Yeah, which is like, that's the one where it's like, She is gay. Like it's like is like baked into the show versus the first sitcom. like that is a revelation that comes late in the show Yeah. And that had like Jim Gaffkan in it and stuff and Martin Mall. and it was like a big CBS show and it flopped. Yeah And it was kind of a thing of like, right? was Ellen kind of just You know, she had Ellen. she had the show Like she was she was important culturally, but like, but they were also. They were putting her in movies. She in roong. She's obviously a disaster, but she's in Ned TV. Fny in Ned TV. She She has a line to think about all the time, which? Can I say it? Yeah It's so funny. It's just a good line It's like Rob Reiner comes in and he he's like the mean bot the meanC theor network guy. Yeah. And there's something to do about like, you know, he's like, if you if this happens, I'll get you more money and And she's like, can we get coffee filters? We've been using a Yamaca And it feels like something Ellen might have made up because that certainly sounds like an Een. Yeah they just have this socky on Yes Anyway. That's awesome. I' sorry she. She was so big in the nineties. And the arc of what happens to her is really fascinating to study now because there was just like years of speculation of she's gay, right? Right. What what's not saying it. Right. There's like short haaired lady with pants. There's the Larry Sanders episode that happens like two years before she comes out where the whole premise is Torne's character is pressuring Larry to be like if we could get Ellen coming out, right. That would be a big boon for the show. So Ellen's kind of winking at it within that show. And within the episode, I feel like they never say it. They never put a name to it And then the twist in that episode is that her and Larry sleep together and he's like, I think maybe she's not But much like the Seinfeld contontest episode, they're never saying the word So it was enough in the ether that she's even making jokes about the fact that she's not acknowledging it And then they do an episode where she comes out The character is going to be gay and Ellen's going to come out It's the front page Din Te magazine. Huppy episode. Yep, I'm gay with her sitting crisscross Applesauce. No, she was doing a little fun fun meal. Oh you're right Bec. She's doing a Gayer stance. Ellen. She's the best. But that episode Ellen That episode is huge in the ratings. Yep, I'm gay headlines. Right. It's one of these things where like she gets this huge bump of visibility and then everyone sort of applauds her and then immediately is like But obviously, we can't like sell car commercials on a gay show All the sponsors go away. The listeners good point. Yeah The view. I was gonna get canceled. The show's basically canceled within a year of her coming out. Yeah. And the attitude is like, thank you for your bravery, but obviously you're not part of the popular culture anymore And then she talks about for years fighting to be like U hosting the Emmys or hosting SNL when she didn't have anything to promote tryrying to just get herself back out there as a comedian after all the offers had dried up Unless you ran a bookshop When it was it at a bookshop? What Ellen Morgan, the character in Ellen wasn't a booksop It was called By the Book O on for you This is the movie that launches the second half of her career That reintroduces her in undeniable kind of way. Does she make a lot of movies after this? No, because she's doing the show Yeah So the only movie she made after this in which not she's not playing herself is find is this film called Finding Dory. Yeah, in which she played Dory. did play Dory U and that's it and she's never made one since. She did more specials She did some stand up? Yeah. Like any movies? No movies. Yeah. Oh Yeah. It's just a story from then on. I think about that tweet all the time and Becca, you know what I'm talking about of Like the the loss of her of her talk show. Oh yeah,ah She's like she would haveact the univers is off. Right. She would have extracted everything usable out of Hwtua and like discarded her like a carcass. like Hkua got to like have a whole year because Ellen wasn't there to just kind of be like, hereere is Haktua. We've presented her to you. We've asked all the questions and now she can go Yeah. like Ellen do machine Yeah, right. Like that's what it used to be. It was like there's a funny video of you ordering a donoughnut in a weird way for an hour and then never be seen again. it also just fascinating that Ellen went from being like, Hollywood like threw me out. They like said, thank you for your bravery and then like closed the door on me And then she's the voice of one of the most famous and beloved animated characters of all time two the highest grossing animated films in history. and becomes like the voice of reason for every mom in America. Like has a twenty year run of just being like, kind of controls this like sliver of the national conversation of' just like, I'm deciding which viral people get elevated. I'm deciding like the new style and throw pillows are at target. Yeah, it is interesting that Ellen show starts and then this rise of like viral videos and social media starts and she Immediately becomes, yeah, the curator of that for moms. Yes. And dancing. She invented dance shows. Ellen more than people just stood in the famous J Nirvana sequence, yes? Yes, Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Ive heardowns. No Ellen, that's not true. And then the clown pops up out of the jack in the So there's a movie There wass a movie. I just, you're right. She's in Is she coming back Or is because I know she had like a recent ish special in the last five years.ot a documentary about gorillas. Daveid much like Aice Baldwin, she said goodbye to public L life. On her last tour, she said, this is the last time you'll ever see me. It wasn't her last I didn't watch the special. Wasn't the special kind of like, yeah, I'm rich I live in a space. Oh, that's the one that had the clapter that went for like two full minutes. Yes. Oh Yeah. it looks like it was edited to She said something very self congratulatory and then they and they kept it all in the edit of the special and everyone claps for like an hour. It's also her addressing the mean and Ellen stuff. It was like around that time she starts doing all this press and it becomes very clear that she never ever got over the anger of how everyone in the industry respond to her coming out Even when finding Nemo and the show bring her back to prominence, She kind of held onto the spite forever of like everyone commended me for doing a thing that was culturally important and also every job dried up. It's just fascinating like this movie There' so much hinging on That choice to cast her. It was the right choice. Yeah. But as we sort of said, like every casting decision in this movie is Pretty spot on. even Alex young Alexander Gould. He'sed The voice of Nemo. He's the kid from Weeds. That's right he was the kid on Weeds. rememember that? He had a little bowl cut. His mom was dealing weed. It looked like a little like a little Nemo. Nemo's just a round little guy with a pair of eyes. Weeds. Talk about a show that its entire premise is defunct now. Yll He's like, I'm selling wed, I'm gonna get in trouble with the law. You know, like, oh now the cops are after me because I sold joints Now you can just go to the store. you can go store. Yeah David. Yes. You got any big summer plans. If you're traveling, you got late nights, packed weekends, zero structure, any of those Keing AG one in your routine helps you stay consistent That's a loaded word right there, consistent. When everything else gets, and here's another loaded word, unpredictable. Oh, I don't want that. and I know you don't either. Look, it's a daily health with a multiv vitamin Free N pro biotics. Yep, suuper foods and antioxidants. all stir lineup. One scoop, eight ounces of water. You just shake it. There you go. That's it. You drink it. It takes thirty seconds. I know you drink it every single day. What's your favorite flavor right now? Right now, I'm actually really big into berry. I've been cycling through them and I've really been enjoying this berry phase. 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But because of woke The sexy lady in the Snow gllobe used to have big naturals. And I think when they rereleased it for Nemo, they made her a little more flat chested And I have been writing angry letters to Disney every day of my life since then I want my snow Globes horny. like those early Pixar movies, right, they that's what they would do. They would show the old shorts. They would alternate because there was not as was J's game and for the b Right. They didn't have the young kids making their own shorts in within Pixar As in a pipeline. So sometimes they'd be like, we don't have a short ready's Throw up One of the old guys Nicknack out of the fucking box. Nicknack rules. They never did Red Stream though They didn't. That's the one they never put on. No kid wants to see that on a big screen. sad The clowns reallyle. Oh yeah, it's a bit creepy. And it's in like a black void. Yeah, That's why I liked it. about a fucer unicycle Ben. It's a movie about a unicycle who's sad that he can't get a clown to sit on his face. That's insane. That sounds like a parody of a pixar con. Juggle. Right He wants to learn how to juggle with his two little cles But there is a clown in it. and it is weird. Where does he sit? Well, there's only one place to sit on a unicide I'm a lie. Um, But Kick Kack plays, then we got our fucking jumping looks so junior guy And then the movie like just kind of cold open straight, like mid dialogue I remember that feeling charring It does feel like a tonal shift against the other Pixar movies that ease you in to a reality I mean, the opening line this movie is wow, right You're seeing And you're already saying that because you're looking at this digitally animated ocean That not quite gorgeous. I saw this film by myself. I remember I was here on vacation. I had to fill some time And I went to like a midday screening at Real Union Square and it was all kids. Yeah becausecause it was the summertime Yeah And I felt a little weird D seventeen years old. But you'd go see a matinete and the theater would be filled with fucking girl. Yes. I saw this movie multiple times in theaters. And that was part of its success was Pixar had become enough of a name brand Even people who didn't grow up with Pixar, like people who were in college when Toy Story came out were like I guess I gott go see the new Pixar movie. Right The track record was just so fucking strong at this point. The opening was humongous and then it just ed throughout the entire summer. It wouldn't go away. This was the summer that everyone assumed Matrix reloaded is the juggernaut. Right. And that was May and this came out like a l later week later or whatever. And then by like two months in it was like this has zoomed past Matrix and it keeps playing throughout the entire year, which obviously can't happen. ero architects so I don't know why that happened. Just kids U yeah, they need a Meravvingian fish. Oh that that would be fun a French fish. Yes. I guess that the sh shrimp. Yeah, the shrimp chef He goes He's done or whatever.. Yeah, whoo divorces him? That's Je Rph It'use also Wheezy. Yeah.'s many voys. Wheezy dead? Well Joe Ramph is dead, sadly Do you know what happened Giraffe was working on the movie Hars No what happened? He was working on the movie cars. Yes, whichich I think he was maybe co director on. Yeah, I think that was where he was rising up too, right What's the worst way he could have died run over my c cs. It's really sade. And So who else died is the three hundred and ninety nine eggs coral? And then never forget about the three hundred ninety nine. I do feel like they have like that's why they do it as well. Be like fish do have hundreds of children.. So they have to come up with this kind of plotdy way that he's like it's like a one father, one son. It's like how Judy Hops has like a hundred siblings. I mean it's at me et me started on that. It's what's really smart about the setup, I think, too, where you're like, what is the only circumstance in which a parent would be this obsessive over a one child And it's where they make these choices of like, when is the characterization being dictated more by the behavior of fish versus the behavior of humans And with Marlin, they find this exact midpoint where you're like, well, if Fishes have hundreds of childrens, they couldn't be this helicopter. But if he has a traumatic event that gives him only one child, then is he just like a neurotic parent in the early two thousands I also think to my point of just like this thing that Stanton was able to identify of How to make animated characters Be grown upps, like this is a movie in which Nemo's the title character, but Nemo is the third lead The two leads are grownups.ue. And same with Monsters Inc and Toy Story and a buug's life that all have kids in them, but the kids are supporting. And the grown upps talk like modern grownups And when we enter into the scene, what's immediately kind of comfortable about it is that it has the vibe of couple who have been looking at houses all day. Yeah R that you feel the where they their in jokes are, how they needle each other a couple The satisfaction of you know what? you're right, this place is good. and then how immediately that paradise is destroyed by Barracuda That's the villain of the movie. Barracuda. Barracuda Mera Kut. Anyway, years later, cut to Nemo libs. He has' su up f. I know we're just hyperfixating on the first sce this movie a little fast it in my opinion, for how larged the trauma of the barracoude. and as you said, like many parents who were just like, I just don't show this scene to my kid. It is funny that when you look at, the Barracuda is still cartoonish Like has like a goofy googly eye. It's like a scary cartoon. It's also like a perfect kind of trauma by implication where you see the moment where She clocks the barrude. I know then she looks down. He notices it because she's no longer riffing with him He's inside the anemone. You are fixating us. He peeks out Yes. pererfect fucking acting of her eyeline changing to the Barracuda and trying to game out if she can make the move to protect The eggs. How she going to protect them? She's just one fish. And then Marlin gets hit by the tail blackout. You don't see her die. You just have him wake up to her not being there and only the one egg The crab egg and the fins. Right The crack is why he has a one of ss That's the bum reasoning. Yeah He'sucky. I don't think those eggs can really crack because they're like jelly, but like who Lucky thin. Yes, so they live in an an anemy Yes. Marlin and Nemo and Nemo wants to start school. I guess it's sort of a September because the year starting. He's been eager to start. Marlin keeps holding him back He has to remember to brush his anemonone. own fish live. Six to ten years in the wild twenty in an aquarium. should have kept him at the dentist. Well, Dory will get to the aquarium Yeah. It's a thing that Stantan said also when he saw that picture of them poking out of the anemone and said, like, oh, what about clownfish? Then he looked into it and he was like, clownfish live in anemones and rarely leave. that he there was like a gift in researching the species of, oh, they live in this weird like security net that also can sting them and try not to leave the bubble I think it is a really smart characterization choice They dialed in the exact right amount of anxiety that Marlin can have. becausecause there's an inufferable version of this movie where Marlin is like, Bo is afraid. Wh hes's at danger out of every corner. Right That he literally doesn't want to leave the anemone. There's something in the fact and even just the way he's doing bits with Nemo at theginning where it's like wants to think of himself as a funny guy He wants to think of himself as not being up too uptight. Is he going. Yeah, the neighborhood dads like know him already. Right on he gets to the drop offs. That is true. Everyone tries to relate to him like a normal person and then he just always puts a little too much in it. He always gets a little too wound up. Can't tell the joke. And no one's mean. No I like when he's fucking up the joke. they're just like, You know, like all the dads are just like, canan we stop? Yeah? The one guy just goes for clamish, she's not very funny, and then the other guy goes. It's a jellyfish, a seaahorse and I'm trying to think the dad. Yeah It's the type of fish of the one who says, I'm obnoxious. Yes which isey for Malcolm of the M, Which might be a years old tang Angel fish. I think Dory is a blue tank. Yeah, but hereere I am speaking about a yellow tank. Oh, yeah, no you're right.'sd something different David. And this is why you listen to Oh, nobbles, bubbles is yellow t. Yeah Bubles is a yellow tang. So these might be angel fish Not to be confused though with Pootie tech. No. And saying is in the film, but you have to look for him. Let's also say we've invoked bubbles, but we're not getting to the root of the matter. We will do that later, okay Willem Defoe is an angel fish. Okay. Bubbles is a yellow tang. So what's Okay A butterfly fish. Cool. The others are a flapjack octopus, which is those octopuses with like the cute little legs that kind of go like. She is adorable. And a sea horse. So it's not a jellyfish, it's an octopus. Her tendril shter than the others, You never notice when she curls them like this. Jellyfish in this movie are like angler fish. in the to lack the consciousness. AKA ees. Well, jellyfish in real life. Yeah Dite don't have a They don't have a brain my daughter has Endless questions for me about jellyfish, which I fully sent because we go to the aquarium all the time. I was going to say like four times a day, you go to the aquarium. Best place on Earth, but like where she is she has really reasonable questions of just like, why and how Like why do they exist? And then what's what is this? Like where's And I'm like, how do they eat? and I'm like I don't really know, man they're weird. Jellyfish are weird. You you ever sunngg my jellyfish? questuestion in the room? Oh yeah. me too It really hurts. It sucks You ever get heat on? U yeah, but not for that reason, just for fun. We packed sand on it. Oh, spray fully wasn't I think I think peeing doesn't really work and Sand possibly does, right? A bit more. Yes Peing is one of those classic like Old Wives Tales things. It does feel like as much as he's trying to break out of a sense of a Pixar formula that was starting to codify at this point This is the most traditional Pixar move of Now let's do eight minutes of basically blackout gags of what's funny about fit. Right Like stuff. H this the second Andy leaves the room and you're like, what's every character's game I feel like certainly monsters incas this with Mike and Sully walking through Monstropolis the first time. And you're like, okay, what how does a mononster city work you have all of this, which also feels like it's him knowing you have to counterbalance the trauma of what just happened in the movie It's nice that they have a nice dynamic So kids need to feel comfortable now. It's very economical You get right to Nemo going away without it feeling rushed, you know, getting, you know in trouble and it's basically, I mean, like Nemo has ten it like minute fourteen and I think Dory enters at minute sixteen. Like he basically gets both of those things set up within the first fifteen minutes of the movie Of course, R. The school is that they will ride on the back of a mantaay and he'll tell them things like Teacher nameed mr. R. He's just so good. who likes diffusing conflict. Right, Wh's right veryer, very good at handling interpersonal interficional. Yeah. It's cool to have a teacher who's also sort of also the bus. Yes, great, great point. and the other parents are commanding Marlin for seeming kind of chill evenven if he's not funny. But then Nemo, he pushes a little too far. he's encouraged by the other boy. It also happens. He finds out that The day he's finally letting his son go to school also is the day they're going to the drop off. Yes. The dads are giving him credit ed of the reef. Yeah, you seem pretty Drop off. I was stressed out. Right. And then that's I regret it. I never should have let him do this. He runs out, he embarrasses Nemo in front of his friends and Nemo feels the need to rebel. He's gonna touch the bug gonna touch the butt. Classic comedy. And it's also nice to have the comedy there because that's hilarious if you're a kid and it helps diffuse the situation a little bit, which is very scary. It is an acting moment that I love in this film. Nemo's silent performance of challenging his father to touch the butt and they play it Like Nemo is in like an FBI standoff. where he won't break eye contact and he just taps it really quickly and intensely. really of going Yeah, it's really fun. But there's also such a loud smack sound when he hits the butt. There's so much force on it. U And his point is proven. he's ready to swim back to his father, unfortunately Big bad dentist.ight. The deep sea divers come. One puts Nemo in a Ziplock bag. The other one really rudely takes a picture of Marlin. A detail I love is that when the flash goes off on Marlin, Marlin reacts by turning sideways and his eye goes wall eyed so it's like Pose in the photo is what a fish would look like versus a cartoon ph about that It's a really quick. This fish' eyes go this way, but in the movie they have. bec com flush and pointing out I remember reading a fucking like sccreenplay guidebook was showing how all Hollywood movies fit into you know certain storytelling formulas. And it tried to argue that the dentist is the antagonist of this movie Which is wrong. The antagonist of this movie is Marlin's anxiety. That is what needs to be overcome and defeated. Right. I mean, also Nemo does get captured and that it does suck. It's a problem. No one's villainous.ight? Yes. but it is. Same as these creatures just doing what they're wanted to do Right. all through the ocean. Like the seagulls are They're not villains, but they're not They're not sympathetic. You could argue that the obstructions that almost feel malevolent in the movie are not circle of life, but like just the survival of the fittest mechanisms, rightight of just this is the ecosystem of how fish survive in relationship to each other. But there's also like the reason why the tank stuff doesn't feel stagnant is Gill is able to kind of teach Nemo the thing that Marlinon's afraid to teach him that Marl Marlin is so Marlin is so terrified by what he perceives as Nemo's weakness because of the lucky Fan. that he wants to teach him how to live a life devoid of risk and is over correcting. Gil is someone who similarly is like Scred Uh and empowers Demo to feel like he has the ability to actually do things. Yeah. We'll get into his initiation ritual, but I love that. They give him that little thing to feel brave. Okay, so Marlin bangs into Dory trying to find like am the door immediately. She can't help him interruption help. Well of course I know right this way And then while this is following her, she starts doing the panic looking over her shoulder Who's this creepy guy? And then she does the agro like, You got a problem, huh? huh? It's a tossed off joke. Obviously, it then becomes the premise of an entirely new movie. It runs in my family, att least I think. least I think it does. Where are they? Makes me laugh so hard. every time. It's just a two shot that holds for like ten seconds of silence. I'm thinking about. And then she looks back and she goes hi, I don'mt worry That it's never it's one run on thought The timing is so good. Where are they? It's just so fucking funny, because like you never need to explain it. The whole movie then explains it. But their dad fucking pattern baldness, Blue tang or whatever We'll get to that. Yeah But the movie's been moving so fast up until this point that when you have that sustained two shot of just letting The joke rhythm of Ellen drive the movie, it feels like a nice reset point. Uh Story and him then pretty much the next thing is the sharks, right? Like pretty much run into Bruce. This is the one thing in the movie always felt an insy bit cute to me. The entire shark dy I don't the self help therapy speaks st. I don't love the trope of characters. sameame with Wreet Ralph inray therapy or in like a blank anonymous Overdone It's not my favorite. Now, can I play Devil's Advocate and say this was pretty early in. It is wildly overdone now. I remember not liking it in two thousand three. We must acknowledge that the sharks were kind of the immediate breakout characters. Bruce was big. Bruce had a big summer. Dory is the character. Well, Dory's a movie star. Dory's like a leading lady. Dory first on the pach. She's an Algene. Yeah. Yeah, but one of the big posters Of course Bruce is big that. I love, of course that it's the great Barry Humphries, Day Edna herself. Plancary And then Ericanna and who's the third one? Interesting. So the third shark in this dynamic is played by Bruce S What's interesting about this guy? and hold on to your seats played the gyrocopter pilot in the Road Warrior AKA Madbs too. Wha He's also Ton Medon in Star Wars episode three Revenge of the Sith. This very year he is the train man H Rach' revolution rises out in just a few months. David, he was arguably the box office in two thousand three Except he got cut out a lot of the banks. Entertertainment Weekly did a little sidebar in their two thousand three yearurine review where they said he was the highest grossing actor because he had Matrix Revolutions and finding Nemo And if he had made the cut of return to the king, I think he would have had two billion dollars in box up It's like how Jonathan Bailey was king of the box office last year U now ye now why is that? Well apart from Oh because Jurassic was that last year? Yeah. Was that but last year? It was you saw a dinosaur Right and went O cried Knedy was the scarecrog, Yes Ben. Thank you I like that they live around pumps. Yeah atttach to chains that bombs are cool and then being blown up is cool. It is funny that Ben's like attached to chains. Yes. Not just bombs. No No Let's not forget. and I like a shipwreck too. Yeah. I also feel like what is it? Chum and what's the other shark's name? Crunch or crrush, let me find out. Crush Anchor Chum and brout. Anchor and Chum. Yeah crrush is the turtle. Right. And Anchor is a hammer hood. Yes. and Chum has the hook through his face. They just feel like very Ben character spepecifically anchor in Chum They should get their own U yeah, like the joke obviously right is they they don't eat fish anymore. What will they be eating or some shit But I just think this like real vegan. I think sharks need like a tremendous amount of food to operate, right? Like I think this is incredibly well staged action sequence. It's incredibly well done. Yeah. The bombs exploding, Dor' Dory's blood coming out of her nose and then the way his eyes change like eyes. Yes. I just starts tripping. That's good. no, no, don't do it. That's really funny. I think like several points in this movie in a film that you would not classify as an action film, Stanton kind of like pulls off a fish version of an Indiana Jones sequence We're even just like Bruce leading them through the establishment of the mines in the sea, right All the sort of visual stuff it needs to teach you that's then going to pay off in the sequence, the missile silo that they can hide out in, how they can activate that to get rid of Bruce, which then even has the comedy within it of Inchor and Chum jumping in between Bruce's bites to apologize for his behavior. And it's just all like he keeps teaching you things that don't feel like overstated setups that pay off in very satisfying ways where then you can just have action happen with real tension because you know this is a universe in which death can happen. Characters can die in this movie and still get jokes in. Ben's laughing at how excited story is so funny when She forgets that they're being chased and then launches the missile So they go back towards the shark. Yes, Yes. This is do. Any Dory joke like that works. We should call this out too. This is the other thing is that Dory can read English, even though she can't remember things. thirty twoll. That's the reason that Marlon has to stick with her because the only thing they have to lead them towards Nemo is the address written forty two During this is when they find the goggles. Exactly. The diver's goggles, he clocks them We learn she can read English because she sees the sign that says Escaope. Yes Right right. This kind of perfect like he stuck with her. she can do a thing that he can't do even if she doesn't understand what she's doing. and she's constantly getting it wrong. But then in this like chain of events, it's like going after the goggles and the snap of the elastic band is what causes her to bleed, which is activates Buse. Yeah she's so good at even just doing the kind. I'm fine, I'm fine, you know, This is also a character design that should not B likeike a plausible nosebleleed out of these things, She's so fucking narrow. Her face is basically a pencil when head on. with her eyes sticking out either side. Right, And she's just got like a nose bump in a mouth. There's a lot of blue tes at therok Aqui in New York and daughter says This is an incredibly difficult actual species to get emotion. I got no notes. Yeah. I got no notes in any of the animation in this movie. I think it's perfect. I think it's the apex of Pixar. Yeah. I really do. Yeah. I mean, maybe Ratatui Like Radati has such a beautiful kind of like approach to all of its things I think this is a better movie. Well, that's okay Rax're all saying This is the five star tier for me, right? L the five The two Toy stories, Monsters Inc, finding Nemo Ratatui, Incredibles Those are the ones at the very, very top of the heap for me. Those are like perfect movies in my opinion. I do think Stanton is The guy within Pixar who starts getting most fascinated by The idea that in computer animation you can simulate a camera in a way that you can't in hand d on And he pushes that really far in Wally where Wally is really selling the illusion of There was a human operator Like Wally has delayed Zooms and shit like that. I know this is basically spoiling our list Do you like this more than Wally Where are you there I'm not sure where I am. I think Wally's a little bit more imperfect than this film. Right. The acatic size of also you just have to like think about when that movie got announced And it was like Andrew Stanton is making a robot rom com in the style of silent films I lost my fucking mind When it was like, he's making a robot Buster Keaten movie It felt like they had designed a film specifically for me Um, if that makes sense? Becca Vy or Nema Oh Nemo. like Wally is like I love Ratatui so much. so that's not far behind Nemo, but Wally, I have a harder time with the things that are imperfect about it. But you think this is Stanton's best film, maybe, but Wally's more of a great this look this is the debate. this is the grand debate We'll have over these six weeks a. It's like a godfather versus apocalypse now situation where you're like every No, that's interesting. I don't find that a tough situation anymore I recently rewatched Apocalypse now and was like I think I think I can see like this movie has left me. It's a mess such a big movie for me as a teen. Obviously it's incredible. I also think like the most ecstatic things that movie can accomplish are part and parcel with its messiness. R Totally. Which feels the same as Wally to me. where I'm like Wally is like steps off of being perfect for me, but if it was perfect, it maybe wouldn enable to achieve the weird things it's able to pull off This film It feels like Stanton is with really fucking limited technology at this time still And this shit so fucking expensive to do and they talk about the methods they had to develop and the strategies of how to stop it from costing like five hundred million dollars, how do you continue to visually maintain the relationship between the characters and the water they're in? Like in shharktail, it's just characters floating. In this, they're like, we can't in every shot show the bubbles or the waves of their fin motion. can't always show the distortion of you know, the thickness of the water at this point at different levels in the darkness or whatever, But they choose their battles really well. There' all these insane hacks they do where basically they create one texture surface which is the surface of the water whenever they're peeking their heads up above. And then they copy that and put a different layer on top of it to make it the ocean floor So basically the sand and the water are the same elements but one is fixed and one is in motion. Similarly, they couldn't figure out how to make the anemone. And The mononsters Inc team, which was working on the other side of the studio had cracked the fur thing. And someone went, Oh, if you take a ball of fur and then like size it up like crazy so every strand is really thick. Wha then the anemone is just overgrown hair So there's stuff in like animation that's like when you hear stories about Sam Ramy figuring out a hack for like pull off a special effect in a cheap way movie is using to like insane effect because none of it feels like shortcuts. and it's just so painterly and beautiful. And even just the fucking the lighting on this moie. I wanted I wanted to bring up the lighting, especially because we're in a crisis in twenty twenty six. where it's so ully done So vivid and beautiful. and Pixar is like a big part of their process is what they call the color scripts where they do these pastel kind of storyboards, not of every shot, but basically of every sequence to look at the color tones of the movie, which is like a classic Disney fifties type thing as well too establish the moods of like when is it brightest and when is it coldest? and when do you need to establish a tone of things feeling ominous versus sad, you know? And I think this movie uses the like depths of the ocean convey those things Things get brighter when they're closer to the surface U Very quool. you see more reflection of the light. Obviously the whole Angler Fish sequence, you know is such a bravera demonstration of all that to, you know, the the light on the air rightight. So they get away and pretty quickly They're swimming down to retrieve. Right. When they get away from Bruce, that's when they come across the Angler Fish. They don't get a second terst. No Its u yeah. It's but know how male annglfish reprodce. How You you know, right? They suck their indexs. I'm taking a guess. They're little. And they fuse to the girl angler fish and like melt into her and just leave behind their balls And then the female Englishfish uses the balls. make it lay. Do they come and get the balls back? No, they die. That's the end for them. they they mate, they di mate. You know, they're just like out on top exxactly. I mean, nice work if you can get it. And it's one of those like dimorphism things where like the woman is like the woman the woman. The female annglishage is like ten times bigger than the male or whatever Yeah, like the ocean floor stuff brings up like Sa is as scary and unknowable as outer space. O The creatures that are in it are alien. This one looks like an HR Giger alien. L it's terrifying. This is a great call. James Cameron taught us about the aliens of the deep and the Ghost of the abbyss. Goes the Abyss, to the deep. I think it is very smart that this movie avoids. If you were to anthropomorphize the deep sea creatures more, it would feel like this is a bad neighborhood in a way that was coded very dangerous. leave that shit for sharktail. Exactly. It makes it much easier to just be like, this is basically outer space and we don't understand the rules of what's happening here theseese characters don't have faces that you can like understand or talk to. Yeah, I feel like if it had a voice it would be too scary for kids. Totally you like breathing It's already kind of scary. Yeah, ye yeah. And it's right. it's selective which characters can't It's the ones where even just being around them is potentially a danger, you know? Yeah. So to move on from you know from this like pretty quickly, we are also in the tank, right? Like around this time is when we' cutting over to the tank. I was looking I feel like the tank basically comes in thirty minutes in. We stay with Marlin and Dory for a while Uh no, excuse me. It's right after the Bruce sequence Becauseuse the bomb goes off, it cuts to the two birds and the one has takes the other one far.. It's a really good tension realistic. It's a really good way to bridge ocean world in silly dentist world. So the tank comes in minute twenty five. And the tank is like we've already at this point, we've already been introduced to like twelve incredible characters. Yeah. Let's throw in a whole perfect little chamberpiece sitcom ensemble of characters who are going absolutely stir crazy. You got tank. Willem Dfoe. Yeah Well the f, Baby chake out Sorry, I' being a Katherine Linasa. Baby Cheetah? What baby Jade Doe? J Doe. There's a baby Jake Doe in the pit season two. watched the early on, there is an abandoned baby. Okay. And Katherine Linasa. Who's gonna look over this baby Chet? like There's a baby Jake Doe. this sounds good. Yeah it rocks Yeah. And like pit fandom, which is very normal, N toxic at all, totally regular One of the recurring jokes about this season is like they're always like predictions for finale. Baby Jane Doe, you know saves the day, you know like she will have laser vision. you know, they keep being like this abandoned bab. Yeah someone was like, I've seen the ending and just I won't spoil it, but don't look up Baby Jane Doe and Rocket launcher I don't say this lightly But just three shows I don't engage with in the last four months, I've just been reading insane headlines about the way the fandom is treated actors broken containment on like like that you are reading a Fandom needs to die. It really does. It's really what's happening in Pit world. The shit that was happening to the heated rivalry, guys. like This isn't good, but I'm not surprised. O course you not show. driven on a sort teeam Edward Tam Jacob, over obsession with but blankies are great. like that. I love your money. I mean and your fand. Ey, easy. easy easy. But then like the pitch shit that's been happening And then there was the fucking Percy Jackson kid was like, I can't go Oh yeah harassing whoever Whver she takes to prom, the fans are gonna send death threats. He was basically like the fans have like I down every girl in my high school class and is sending death threats saying like, you better not go on a date with him because he belongs to me. Oh. Everyone needs to sh It's just But it's the internet and it's the way the algorithms feed and all that. It's so crazy. But it is the last show I would expect to have that. Of course and I just keep reading these. I think that's why it took everyone by surprise. It's it's like a sober hospital procedure And everyone's just like, I can't believe that Robbie did that. It's like he's a fictional character. But then they're like angry at which actors aren't coming back when it's not ye Oh they're being they're being real normal about everything. This group. Okay, so we got right And then it's like sitcom fucking all stars, right? It's like Brad Garrett He's the puffer fit. We have Allison Jenny from the West Wing. We love her. Stehen Root from News Radio. Brad Garre from Mver Low's Raymond, obviously Vicki Lewis also from news Radio. Austin Pandleton is Gurgle Uh, and he's, you, I mean, he's he's a guy., you know, theater actor, million movies, you know, we love it. Max from the Muppet movie h and then Joe Ramped is Jack Immediately everyone has their bit. Oh ye he's clean Nemo wakes up and sees all the scary imagery of the like Aquarum toys and everything. You feel like, okay, so this is going to be like analogous to him being in prison now And he's stuck with a bunch of scary inmates and then immediately it's like, no, this is like a mental hospital. Yeah, it's cuck's now. They all have him Right. So okay, let me try so u Gill is scarred And he's kind of battle you know we learn he also has a bad fin. He's got a bad fin too. They never stopped him I don't know if you've noticed this. The scarring pattern on his face is basically one to one with pllutumon. I was to say it's pllatoon, right? R g them the same scars Defoe plays it so straight, but also I think it's like incredibly warm in this movie. Yeah He's' an alternate father figure. I want I want Gil to believe in me. He so belie because you're just like, there's a universe in which they go like the joke is you're really intense. He's the drill serge. You play it really seriously. And at the end you show a little bit of warmth. But even from the beginning, he's playing the vulnerability of this guy It's important too that he was the only fish that ever lived in the ocean. Yeah. used the rest of them are tankies Yeah. Brad,, the puffer fish so he sometimes he goes puff mode. I guess that's his problem. Yeah. he doesn't really have any other problems.ure like a hair trigger anxietyponight. Right. It's the equivalent of having like panic attacks or whatever. I guessach Peach is kind of maybe the most balanced, but she's a bit of a gossip. I guess. It know it all. Yeah. Bubbles loves buubbles Yeahes. he's obsessed with the bubble. He's OCD and he's obsessed with the little treasure chest that releases bubbles and trying to keep them in there. One of the great fish tank toys the bubles if not I think the top. Or I guess no, Gurgle's the one who's OCD and. Gurgles freak. And and then Deb, I just love the idea that she's obsessed with her own reflection. This is my sister, Flo, who she thinks is a liar It not to trust though but It's really good. Yeah. And then Jacque is just a a high status elitist Frenchman. He's kind of good actually. shock fun Shock ros. So they all want out though, right? Like they all want out of the tank and they have like you know a sort of developing plan that Nemo fits into. He's dropped into a great escape situation where it's like there have been years of failed plans. They keep on trying things that don't work and emmo feels to them like He offers some new opportunities, specifically in the fact that he's small can go into the filter and put the stone in the Van and But speaking to how complete the kind of vision of this movie was when Stanton wrote it major changes you hear about in the film are taking out things that were gilding the lily rather than needing to figure out how to ultimately get to things So like, you know, unwinding the flashback structure. he originally had Gil be more of a, I don't know whether to trust this guy or not character He played him more scary up top. sureure. Yeah. There's a scene where Nemo gets Gild to open up and talk about what happened to him and how he ended up in the tank And he tells this whole story about his family that went missing and where he came from. And then Nemo finds out later in the movie that Gill has been lying. It's like a joker, do you want to know how I got these scars thing And that every detail that Gil told him is in a picture book that's in the dentist's waiting room that he hears a kid read. And he was just like, we don't need this. Yeah. Just let Gil be actually invested in helping this kid. Yeah. This g is already a liar stuffed to the Gild. R. Right. There were originally two seagl. How many comedy points there?? One trillion comedy points. No one trillion. I know ow you comedys You're in debt. There were originally two seagulls, or not seagulls, What is it pelan? Oh yeah. Right. So the one who ends up trying to eat them was originally a fully developed character. And there was kind of a good and bad Pelican and Nigel's trying to protect them and this other one's trying to eat them. And they were just like none of this is necessary because they already have the seagulls. Right. That's theirs Yeah. But I love Nigel as a character as just this kind of like Jeffrey Rush just playing fucking warm, right playlaying like a lad who just loves coming in because he likes dentistry It's funny how they all know about dentistry Yeah It's awesome they've been in this tank all these years. But they're stuck. Nigel comes and visits his own to hear the like dentist updates. What's the gossip? What drills he using? Yeah It's funny because it's like they are out they are watching the dentistry like teelevision. they were so invested right But for them, it's also like studying their captor to be like, where are the vulnerabilities? What's genius about Nigel too is you immediately recognize that is how they are gonna to get out of there. This one I'm talking about. It's like There's such intentionality of this story that anytime a character's introduced, you're like, what's the function they're going to serve Yeah. And anytime you're shown a visual element, you're sort of like, oh, right He could keep people in his beak And none of it's all what everyone know talks about being the ideal of what you want to achieve in dramatic storytelling and especially in like film narratives is surprising but inevitable How can you in ninety minutes pay off the things that felt like they were They had to happen But yet when they happen, they don't feel deiger. You really locked into this movie? I've seen it so many. I've seen so I so many I truly this is one of my go to I can't sleep movies This is like a real comfort movie for me you know, we were talking about, we did our Edge of tomorrow episode on Patreon, which I guess will have just come out or recently come out And we were talkking about how you will often identify a sleep movie and watch it like literally every night for like a couple of months. prettyt much. And then you kind of like squeeze all the juice out of it and you move on to something new for a while Nemo has just been in the rotation for twenty years for me. I probably haven't seen this movie until you rewatched it yesterday in over fifteen years or something. and it was like I know every word. every line every scene. A lot of the lines are also so catchy, so sticky. This is like full of just these effortless feeling catchphrases. It's not like donony catch phrases. It No They're not dumb jokes, and so much of it is the specificityvel. The actor makes a really interesting choice in the rhythm of their line delivery or character the design of the character that is saying that thing and the animation of what they do when they're saying it So where do we leave off? Well, we've done the tank for a while. The Dory thing they escape the angler fish. escape We go from the tank to the angler fish and then it is when basically like Dory doesn't absorb the directions of like avoid the jellyfish, and they go into the jellyish. So yeah. O is this Marl fult does, it's Marlin She sort of remembers that they shouldn't do it. Marlon's like, what are you talking about? This is the right way. like school of fish. Yeah. they're like does they't like you or they keep in person. That' John Ratzbberg. That' John Ratzenburg. Yeah So so we're going to get back to the Gumpy guys in an amazing way. He's like M You have Mar Lin You have Marlin dejected that they lost the goggles, right? And that's when Dory introduces the justust keep swimming to cheer him up that she's also invested in Hmhire She was able with the Angler Fish because he use the light like a reading light. She was able to do P Sherman forty two Wallabyay, Sydney.es. They've lost the goggles. but This is for the first time she's learning to remember. Yeah which I just think is so elegantly done. that it's a gradual thing rather than at one moment suddenly, you have your payoff moments with her. You have the like making the emotional pa to him that like when I'm with you, I remember things. and you have the moment where the whole neemo thing comes flashing back to her. You're so proud of herself right now for she's like, I've remembered that That's incremental. You give her little victory so it's not just like at one point in the movie suddenly she's fixed. And because her will A, she repeats the she repeats it a hundred times, but also like because the remembering the address is something emotionally important to her. that like I won't remember the address of a house I grew up in. I'll remember P Sherman forty two Wallabyay Sdy until like I die probably. And especially her riffing on it and her turning it into the songs. As me again and I'll tell you P Sherman forty two Wallabyays. So they get to this trench and the trench looks dark and scary. Marl orry I was pulling up to remind myself where I was instead, I just got the scary sounds of the trench. And Marlon is obviously like, well, we don't w want to go through the dark, scary trench. We need to go over. A fish who she had asked for directions earlier told her. It's the school of fish. It's the final thing. afterfter they've been making fun of Marlin and he's like, fuck these guys, then they're like one last thing, but it's after he's swam off So only she's there to hear it and they don't know that she can't remember Oh right, that is then. I thought this happened later in the movie, but I'm getting them confused with the schoolool of fish in the end who we'll get to. who are also a big silver school of fish. precision of just like there aren't any cheats in the story. They are so funny. They're so specific, like the conflicts they find themselves in, why they're there, why there isn't an easy out, why they need to fight to work through the thing. Like if Marlin wasn't offended by them mocking him because he's so self serious, then he would have heard the thing about the trench Right. And he doesn't like asking for directions. She's very friendly. She doesn't mind going up to anyone. H stubbornness screws that. They do the like, Hey, is this fellow bothering you? Yeah,'s funny Lady. So they play a game of charades to cheer her up And then because and so we've seen that they could move in this really fun way and then they do a big arrow because they tell them they need to get to the EAC. Oh, right. They show the c. know where Sydney is. They show the little waves, they show the opera house They turn into Marlin and they do like a sad face Marlin, which is pretty funny. They do a mocking impression over his shoulder. funny And then they give them the directions. Right swwim through not over. Yeah. he doesn't trust her. So they he distracts her. He's like, look, a shiny thing. they go ish fuck J jellyish fuck them. This is the secquence But then they're woken up I mean, we cut to the tank and then when we cut back to them, we they're woken up by a turtle. Sary, intense and so beautiful. It's another camera decision where He said they animated this whole sequence and he was like, it looks too neat and clean and perfect There isn't tension to this And the guy who was a headad of camera in the movie was like, let me try something. and he clicked twice to zoom in Like literally just did that sure and did it kind of like arbitrarily. And Stant was like, oh, if the compositions are asymmetrical If the jellyfish's bodies are cut off and it feels like there's just this weird environment that you can't see as full bodies And so all of the camera placements within the sequence, which is a lot more quick cutty are all kind of a little disorienting. How did they stop the camera from getting wet Really good question It's a fun sequence We're getting to the turtles. Turtles, okay? Oh In my opinion is the most positive representation of a Californian in the world This is a really good take Like of that kind of like the surfer dude thing Andre Stanton, a Massachusetts and although he's probably lived in California for like decades at this point. Y doing likeurfer dude accent. like Oh man, yeah, you know, right. But it's like the whole point of crrush is he's just like I'm one hundred years old or one hundred and fifty or whatever he is. Look at me, I'm fucking chilling. There's ton annoying about this guy. He's not forcing his worldview on. Not at all. The more you talk the more you're like this guy's got it fucking figured. He's like, you know, when there's like cool te like when there's cool Jesus for teens Do you know what I mean? Crush is cool Jesus. You think he's kind of like a youth pastor, but like a really nice youth pastor? like the cool Jesus, he's the cool hippie Jesus that the youth pastor is talking about. Yeah the youth pastor wishes he could be crush. But he is he's demonstrating an extremely different parenting style. Y,. Marl being exposed to It is actually a much healthy much less helicoptery kind of parent. He'll find his way. A way to teach your kid a way a kid learns to be safe in the world is to fail or fall off this way them being yourered in their choices and feel like it's based on experiences rather than rules being placed around them. Yeah, and feel to have a sense of adventure that feels safe And just the whole idea of like, you know, locating the EAC is a real phenomenon then being like, man, okay, so turtles, would they be like surfers? Yeah if they're literally just in the flow of this. It's sort of like a highway. Like when you see the fish that are merging on, but it also is skydiving. Yes. Yeah R Right when squirt gives their the big like skydiver like, okay, we're gonna have a great jump today Totally U, I mean, incredible performance from Stanton It's another one of these early examples where here's a role that they earmark of like, well, at some point we'll hire like a celebrity to do it And he would do it in all the story reels in the present Bradbird doing Edna Me or whatever, right? Well, that's the opposite story where They hired, much like Billie Mit Macy, it's never been named, but everyone believes it's Lily Tomlin that he hired Lily Tomlin and she was doing the records and he kept on giving her really specific directions of being like, No, I think it's more like this and it's more like this and And Lily Tomlin literally Excuse me, I got myself to a tongue twister. Lily Tumlin literally goes, I think you should just do this. Yeah. Why don't you do it then? then And then he just does Edna was born. Right. This was the opposite where when they were mode when they were in the early stages, everyone around Stant was just like, you should just fucking do this. He's like a Hawaiian shirt guy. Well, all the pixar guys at this point in time are Hawaiian shirt guysy. This is a little preppier. He' I got that New England thing. Yeah. Yeah. but this is outside of himself, but he just like he fucking found the character. No one's going gonna do better. Sould have a Hawaiian shirt? No, absolutely not. That would be a fucking nightmare. I think you're wearing a baseball shirt and it's awesome. I'm in my m era. Yeah. I keep buying jerseys. So the other thing as we've been saying about how all the character choices make sense for the type of animal. Yeah. this type of more relaxed parenting style, not only that they're surfers and whatever else, but it's also because They hatch their eggs really far away Yeah. and Marlin goes, how do you trust that they'll come and swim all this way in the big, big ocean and find you And it's like, oh when they're ready, they' When you know, you know, you know? But it's finding those gifts of like, you do research on different species and you go, oh, that's interesting. That's an interesting character detail. Yeah. Rather than forcing things ono characters. you find these discoveries. I want to mention that in between before Marlon waking up. Oh, we have tank stuff. Yes. You have the first attempt at tank escape. Y, whichich is genuinely like pretty. That's also Jones type. I really like that it's a moment for Gil Yes to be like I pushed the kid too hard or like I was being crazy like thinking this would work So that he's only been dealing with other adults and that he's pushing Nemo to the same extent. He's the opposite of Marlon, where rather than not letting him do anything, he's making Nemo do too much Yeah, so he pressures him. The plan is because Nemo's small, he's going to swim into the filtration system and jam one of those little tank pebbles into the. rototor Yeah the motor to jam it and then the tank will get gunky. They will all have to be put into little bags while the dentist cleans it. We get a really fun visual where he's Explaining it's going to work. And talk about the camer re placement. It's like this POV of these bagged fish rolling across the highway. Dan I think talks about it as the Fincher sequence. He's like, this is my homage to the fight Cub. Here's how we're going to infiltrate you know, talking through it and all the crazy camera movements and whatever. It's really fun. It is a really smart plan It's a good plan, but it has this assumption to it that I do like that it's like there's a fish logic. of like humans will only do one thing. Right. And they don't realize that like, yeah, a human can just fucking go on Amazon and buy like a new filter. But I like that Nemo gets close. L it's not like it's a total failure. No But but it is so scary Sary that it does actually set Marlon back not Marlon I'm sry Gil It makes him question everything to a degree where he's just like, these are the lies I'm telling myself so I can survive in this fucking tank. We're never getting out of here. And it flips the dynamic where Nemo is going to have to console him basically. Okay because Nemo finally does it because he hears about his dad's heroism. Well, I'm sorry let's just run through because I need to need' coming at this because you have this lesson The turtles, right? And they they send them off the EAC They start spreading the message. R This is a sequence that they talk about is just like kind of pixsar at their best where one night they were like Fuck, we gott to solve this story problem How can Nemo possibly receive words that his father is looking for him point in the movie, wouldn't he just give up how do we stop the character from just conceding. And they're just like, well, what if it's a fucking like game of radio, right? What if it's a chain of conversation And then what are the opportunities for characterization, all of those things? Because all these have to be like a four second gag of what's funny is, oh are swordfish like upper crust British feners. so you know And they basically just like write this all in one night, all do the voices. These are all Pixar people. It's all like Peterson and Stanton like repeating different archetypes and cultural stereotypes. And it's like a really fun journey that just feels like a fun story exploration. But then you get to Nigel hearing it, Nigel recognizing it being like, I gotta tell this clownfish. But you can tell that he's like this is going to mean a lot to this kid. I gotta tell him right away flies through with urgency Nemo immediately is like what actually know not possible He's immediately heartened and then rejects it as like, that is not a thing my father could. Yeah, that my dad would never battle a shark. L let alone even like Sandy Plankton's dad would't battle a shark. If you told him your dad is just swimming really far to get to you. Even that would test his Yeah, his his notion of his father.. But this is a beautiful moment because he Nigel says some identifying features about Marl sportfish trout tuna. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. his name's Marlin. Yeah So you said he fought a shark I heard he and you just you just fucking like Spielberg shot push in on Nemo's face and his eyes widening as he realizes the expression of his father's love in a way his father could never say to the understanding of what his father has gone through to try to get to him I just find it's incredibly emotionally open. I think you're right I think you're right. I think it's very emotionally it's very beautiful. And so Nemo makes up his mind He's going to try the plan again. Gill wouldn't have wanted to push She disappears in a cut. like Nigel's telling the story. All the other fish in the tank are so excited for Nemo, and then they realize he's missing and he's already gone back up the pipe Hearing of his father's bravery has emboldened him to believe that he can do things as well We should also, of course, we around now is when Nemo, I mean when Marlin and Dorory get sucked into a whale And Dory speaks whale to the wha. That's right after this. And that chang that changes humanity forever. It changes the world. Everyone just could not stop talking about it. It was seismics, whale. It is so funny, having I've seen finding Dory so many times now because my daughter vastly prefers it to finding Nemo And uh And that movie, I think is Pretty fun and we will talk about it on this show the way that they're just like, Well, Dory has to speak whale. That should be crucial actually The fact that Dory doesn't know where his family was that's the emotional arc of the movie. that throwa awayay line in the first place. Where did Dory learn just to read Like they're basically like what are the things about Dory? Now that is the spine of finding. I like that movie a lot. Everything that drives me crazy in it is the checklist DCD. Yeah. I hate I ag that in prequel types. Yes. Like I hate that they bring the turtles back even though I love Cush and it just feels like they're like Guys, you have to bring the turtles back We need to sell like turtle merch, you know There's stuff like that's really annoying. Turtle talk we' get into as well. We'll get into turtle talk Um, But whale Yes. the whale well the whale speaking whale is just that is one of the most Biblical, ancient, important go off Archetypes in myths and sagas and legends.allowed by Wh always get swallowed by a whale. You just have to do it. Pinocchio, one of the greatest animated films of all time Strong Yeah. I think it's some of the best decor inside of a whale. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Baalenine That's their little teeth things. Yeah filters. Yeah, which is so funny because you think of them as being sort of soft and small, but they're so packed in and hard when Marlon's trying to escape. But anyway, they taste buds being so pronounced that the fish can hang on to them. That part I do not like Marlon rubbing up on the taste buds And also the water coming like as flowing against the where the whale is swimming. It's so interesting. Yeah. wh crazy. them having this fight where Marlin's like really reaching a breaking point with Doria being like, you keep thinking you can do, you know, You can speak to whales, you can read, you can do all this fucking shit. And meanwhile, it's just the whale approaching them so fucking slowly.. Right. And because of the weird perspective and lighting and all the tricks in the water, she's going like, hey little fella I don't think but that's a little fella Pacon Yeah That is Payacon. He is such a Pacon because he is helping them. It's interesting. wayay of Water inverts what you're talking about where the villains go inside the whale and do something terrible. takeake their immortality, J. Well, that's a lessonask. whales are something Grander and more sacred than us and we can't be trying to mess with it. True. I do like that the whale basically becomes a location, right? That it's like where they have a and they talk it. Right. But I like Becca's thing of like also this kind of like they're passing through a siege perilous here the biblical thing of like that they are transformed by being expelled from the whale Right. And and it's much like Nemos character growth happening in him listening to Nigel's story, like just really elegant show don't tell stuff through action It's just such a fucking perfect. piece of screenwriting. when Marlin is yelling at Dory for trying to come up with a solution for how to save themselves. Yeah. And he's just saying no to everything she's fucking doing. And then he finally breaks and says, my favorite line You think you can do these things, but you just can't memo And what I love about it is you see the shock on her face, the reaction of why he called me Nemo. She can't quite comprehend it But then it cuts back to him and he looks so fucking embarrassed. Like he realizes what he just said. her name's Dory. Yes. Well that'ss like who's Nemo, I thought your kid is Harpo Chico f. Fabia guys. Yes. He like he gets it the second it comes out of his mouth B laughing about Dory. It's another classic comedy thing anytime she confidently says the wrong name and he just has to go Nemo He just has to correct her so fast So Nemo is a very fun word to say. It's awesome that it' said like a trillion times in this movie. It's a really cute fun name Of course, Nemo himself escapes all by himself Like, you know, Marlin does not rescue Nemo. No right. He's there for Nemo when he comes out of the you know into the harbor, R out of the sink. But also Dory is correct. Like Dory gets them out of the fuckking. Dory's been talk the whale this whole time. whales like And I think whales don't speak the same language as all the other fish because they're again, like the Tolcoon sort of like on this elevated plane of intelligence. the same way that we can't speak the same language of whales, but whales do language. Yes. So that'sort of what's happening here in my mind. She's communicating with the whale. The whale is like, you need to do the counterintuitive thing, which is fall down into my throat so that I could then blow you out. I've driven you to Sydney. I'm dropping you off. Which is also what teaches Marlin to trust Nemo in Nemo's escape, that she's doing the counterintuitive thing.y would into the whale and NemO similarly is not trying to swim up of the net. Noes.'s gott to swim down. That's how we're going to escape this thing. He learns about swimming down also because when the fish have to get scooped out, usually to be sent to their doom at the hands of Darla. It's in a little net and if a lot of them are in the net, they can Yes. break it. And and FemMo. transformation is he knows what to do. He he persuades Marlin to let him do it, Marlin. Marlin has the Wherewithal to let them do it and they escape. It's the story thing I love across the Toy Story movies is that also feels very influenced by Indiana Jones, where you set out like here iss the clear plan This is what needs to happen and the order of actions that will get us to the other side of this thing. And then immediately shit goes wrong and your characters have to improvise, but it's like a heist movie where you're so trained into how this is supposed to go that it's exciting every time they have to veer off of the plan And the movie is telegraphing the all drains lean to the ocean things so loudly throughout as like if they can just get there, then they're in the clear, they're safe. Yeah. It is a thing that Pixar people have talked about There were a lot of incidents after this movie came out of kids flhing fished down the like they're not gonna they thought I was making it to the harbor, they thought that humact. Oh no. Fish shells went way up after this movie. of course. And like aquarium attendances, I feel like permanently went up after this movie. Oh yeah. But there was a lot of kids trying to free fish by flushing ' them down. I do think there's a very beautiful of its time sort of Y two K Fuitiger arrow VZivid. Blue. and orange like aesthetic to the whole thing that feels like it was Those are the the colors, let's go m. I also like calling this frit layer Is that how you say it? Frudigaro? Sure. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Yes, I know what you're talking. Like like that one windows background. Yeah Also a little frutopia, I. Oh frrutopia, I mess That is like crush and squirt by. Yes. I miss my like Windows ninety eight Bring it back Bring it back. Also a good reason for them to be clown fish is the blue orange contrast is the best contrast. So did you know if you ate a clownfish that it would be gross because they're covered in a special mucus to protect them from the anemones that they live in? And thenem, kid don't knock yourself Um No, and then then we're done. Like, I mean, right? likeike it's like skipped over, right you think you're in the clear when he escapes. Well the tank gets super fucking dirty L Mtons freaking the fuck out. can't you see that we're all surrounded by shit, which they cut him off? Yeah, she goes The dentist is coming in. And he takes his reader's digest into the bathroom Yeah, is that when that happens? or Yes. Yes. And the kid in the waiting room is reading the Incredibles comic. I don't know if you know And there's a little buzz light you're in the toy chest. Yeah Um The thing they didn't account for is that he would just buy some new high tech cleaner and install it while they were sleeping. Yeah. that he doesn't need to take that out or he took them out but put them back in really quickly. So they wake up, the tank is clean, all hope is lost. Um does not know that Dory and Marlin have gotten so close And today is the day that Darla is coming and she's gonna take Nemo and shake him until he dies. Yeah, you know, she even get her hand on him. I mean, she's got him for a second. It gives him a hearty shake. Yeah. She's like the opposite. I think a lot of like the depiction of Australia in this was kangaroo Jack were like my only exposure to Australia in you know, the first decade of life. and it so goes against lovely intelligent children of Bluey. Darla makes it seem like the children of Australia are monsters. I do think it's vital in Blueie that Blueie is a relatively obnoxious child. Yeah, but she's not like Darla is like Oh no, Darla's much worse. But I mean like I just at one point Buey someone a character with an Australian accent calls Dory Bluey up. Well, she is blue. She is blue. But you know, in Bluey like One of my favorite episodes of Bluey, a hugely controversial episode is the one where Ellen comes out. puppy episode. They're puppy episodes of B. is the one where Bingo, you know, first they both turn into bloies, right Bingo turns into blluey, like Bingo paints herself blue. I don't know about this. Oh, it's so good. It's called Mini Bluey. Wh's it controversial? I'll tell you in one second. So Bingo turns herself into blue and Blue's like, this is what it's like if you're bluey. And essentially's like you need to be obnoxious. Like you are not like you are the good sister. Okay. I'm the more noising sister. blah bl. I my dad when he tells you to do something, right. Iignore people, be a little bossy, make weir noises, Yaaha And they do that for a while and then Blue's like, this is boring. How about I B bingo And so they both turn into bingo, bluey pain. And then You know, they're being nice and helpful and the dad goes this fcks res this is great. And really likeike Bluey gets upset and they, you know, they have to resolve like the, you know, that, you know, Bingo's like, I'm also annoying. like Bingo help Bingo is a much sweeter kid. But like Bingo basically like of course like they think that, but like, I'm also annoying and weird and demonstrates how But then the episode does end with a dad being like It kind of rock when she was being think of, right? And a lot of fans don't like it because it's like it's not an example of amazing parentsing. L the dad never really apologizes. They to be these perfect parents all the time. That's why I love it. The issue with the bluey parents is they're too perfect So we need these moments. Anyway, whereere are we? Here's the thing I like in the movie, and I like this just when movies can give me this feeling where you feel like it's wrapping up and you're like It's a shame I've been having fun. I guess if it's time to end, it's time to end I could watch some more of this. And there's basically a fake out D N Right? L yeah. Darla's here ticking clock. It's coming to ahead Marlin and Dory have made it like basically right in Nigel's mouth, which was another moment of learning to trust because Yes. he's like, you need to hop in my mouth. mean simimplified, this is the only thing the other Pelican needs to accomplish is just being basasically non speaking rival. They're all like lads who are perched above a fish and chips stands. We also need to call it the M seagulls, who we haven't even talked about yet. R. Which were also you say Bruce is a breakout star. The seagulls were huge Humonges. Um, yeah, se go mine, mine. so very funny. It's just another really good identification of like what do seagulls feel like to us when we either them. Right Yeah U So and also Nemo is playing dead. Yes so that he'll flushed down the toilet and that's what Marlin and Dory come in on so I think the dentis is scooping is scooping him to give to Darla Gill's final advice is to play dead. Yeah. He wants to get to the drain But yes, there's like this tension of Nigel getting Marlon Dory to the window. They make it there just in time to see what they think is Nemo dead on the counter So they give up, Nemo wakes up Gil recognizes the panic of this moment and does what is potentially the sacrifice of load me into the volcano Another thing we've set up in the movie that doesn't feel like it's going to be a sort of mechanic for action. Right. It was just sort of a fun gag that they could make the volcano be. Right. That's just part of the ritual, but then we've shown that like it's not actually dangerous. But of course, yes, you could launch yourself from that. So they all work together and they launch Gil over to the dentist tool tray. Right, who uses basically the tools to break Nemo's bag to be able to Let Nemo flip into the drain of the dentist Bitzing But it's too late in the sense that Marlon and Dory think it's too late.. They think you So Nemo is flushed to sea. Yeah. and Marlon and Dory are back in the ocean and Nigel also thinks Nemo's gone and it's like I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I truly am. His second I'm sorry truly really gets to me gravity of it. Yeah. And then he just fucking flies away Yeah. and Marlin has his lowest moment of just like, I mean, genuine grief Yeah Hes crossed the ocean. He came so close, his son is dead. and he's like, Dory, we're going our separate. He's not even angry at Dory at this point. Y. but it's just like, it's over. Sheking The beautiful thing about like, I don't want to keep forgetting when I'm with you with this relationship, I'm able to remember and he's like I don't want her I'm with you,' Yeah, she makes her big plea and it falls on deaf ears because he's just going through too fucking much which leaves her alone This is where you're like, I felt like the movie was about to end, but now they're all split up again. Where' the even going? What moves does it still even have And it's oh, Nemo can bump into Dory and Dory cannot understand what that means. Yeah. Yeah. So at first Nemo very sweetly is like, oh, like are you lost? Yeah, right, right. veryery cute. He sees he's just escaped from like the most perilous situation ever. He's seen more than any little baby fish should. But he wants to take care of her. Yeah. He wants toly like, okay, like I'll you. He sees she's in distress. Right. And once again, like if Marlin had listened to Dory's plea, he would have been reunited with his son in five minutes. Yeah R. So Merlin goes away there's these crabs who are fun. Dory doesn't rememember, you have the moment of like Nemo That's a nice name. Yeah. Oh, really funny. Yeah perfectly played. And then what is it that helps her remember again Um, It's like a flashback. Yeah, but whats the P Sherman forty two Wallaby Way Sydney? because she has the moment where it all comes flooding back for like Kaiser Sos moment I'm try to remember what the verbal trigger is Um Okay, well, so that with the fact that met No, no, it's meta textual that we don't remember and it will come to us in a flashback and it'll be like a parallel and whatever.. So that happens She remembers and they need to find Marlin And Marlin's just sort of following the schoolchool of Fish. Right. you could argue he's borderlland suicidal if at small. Yeah. so he's there's this big school of fish and they're all like, Hey, watch where you're going. They're like really dour He's sort of caught up in that. they briefly reunite. It's the pipe. I'm sorry. It's the pipe where the crabs are looking to catch the fish. Yeah And it says Siddney on it Oh sees that she reads it. And Pet Sherman forty two Wallabyay sitting comes back to her Yeah. and then she's like, Ohh, Nemon, she's hugging him with her little fin. Yes. There's this big school of fish. and I'm sorry, but just incredible Ellen DeGennerss line delivery. She does her similar like seven thoughts in one sentence. thought you're dead and you're not and your father, your father. She has her one kind of scolding. Yeah while she's like squishing his fays. It's really cute. She's But we see this school of fish where they've just reunited U above on the shore, there's a fishing trawler that's going This is right the net right Yeah It's going to drop a big net and scoop up All of these Yeah. And Nemo's the only one who can basically save everybody. Right. no because Dory gets caught up at. And Marlon is now even though he just he he realizes his mistake from abandoning Dory He's not going to lose her again. It's like we need to get her out of there and free all the fish. Nemo goes inside. and Marlon has just got his son back and he's like, you cannot this but then it's like this you know to work, you need to trust me that. I know that you can. Yeah. and it's you've already had their moment of reunion. So it's what's impactful is that Marlin has just gotten him back And he so quickly accepts that he needs to trust him and let him go for another moment So he schoolools all the fish, hh so true. This is so Yes swim down. This is based on a real event. Yes. that Stanton read about in the news. There was some event where school offics seemed to somehow figure out how to a net to break the net. Right, whichich is another great like, oh shit. if you're telling me that happened for real, Yeahually, someone claims it The mov's over, right? I mean, like then we end up back at school and all that. Excuse me. My opening quote, another moment that makes me cry where he's looking at Nemo who has succeeded in freeing all the fish, but he's lying kind of knocked out at the bottom of the ocean floor at least this ier of the ocean floor. ye this And you have the mirroring of him going to Nemo and cradling him like the egg And then to console him as he's like half awake, you know? Yeah tells him the Sandy Plankton thing. Right. Yeah, it's a lovely moment. To me, the lovely moment is when he gets information. When he gets the water When he's like, how old are you? and Krush goes, one hundred and fifty dude. Like that just makes me cry. it's ' it's so beautiful. The p good too.oth Both are incredible. Both are so sweet. But the fact that he's able to tell him that and that he knows that and that he understands the value of having experiences and learning things for yourself And that's what he like yells an emo about which is so funny. His genuine frustration of why do you still give a shit about Sandy Plankton? Yeah is both very funny and very. Albert Brooks saying the name Sandy Plankton to Very important SpongeBob characters. Yes, good call. U And he just delivers it in a really funny way. And then sweet. And then you cut forward basically to their new found family their' there Marlon jumping on Neme because he's excited for him to go to school Um There's also a credit scene where the tank the tank gang does escape. which is Yes. Oh and Squorts an Echange student now. Oh, that's right.. Best I want to say this right now. It was part of the reason why I was so concerned when they announced they were even making a sequel is this movie does end just perfectly. It does, but it's not like the mononster Inc ending where you're like, I truly don't know what you do. No. Finding Nemo does end with like they live in the ocean and our friends. They could have another adventure. It's Nemo swimming back to hug him and say I love you and then swimming off and Marlin saying, I love you too, son distance You know, that he says it to himself kind of. Yeah. It's good. Yeah. He says goo have an adventure Nema says, o. But The last line is yeah, I love you too Right Right before Nemo stuff Right before Nemo got taken away, he said, I hate you. Exactly. with like full forced. I guys, I hear you. I love this movie. I will say it does not quite activate my parent buttons in the way you guys seem to be But interesting. But like not in like a where I'm immune to like activate your child of a parent button? Is it more like The opposite identification. I just like it because it's about fish and Dory's so funny. It's pretty ond. But I think all of the stuff you're saying is very well done. Like I'm not, you know But it doesn't it this movie doesn't like I'm like, it's about how secure attachment styles are formed Yes in the crucial early years of life. Yes I also need to correct myself. He does the swim backack love you, but then he just says by dad while on mister Ray yelled at at a distance. And then Marlon says bye son very quietly to himself the end That beautiful. Fucking Robbie Williams beyond the sea. Oh yeah. Obviously famously, if you see this movie What's the what's the language where L end is slute What? So there's a language right and it comes off on the screen It just says slide And that became an old like Twitter YouTube video of like the end of YouTube, but then it just goes slot And wouldn't that happen in like a hundred movies? Yes, but it's just especially funny in. Also, most movies don't say the end at the end anywmore It's Swedish. It's Swedish. That is awesome. I will find it now. Do you know, speaking of languages, this is only the second movie ever that was dubbed into Navajo That's amazing. Wow Here we go. seeee, here's the ending, the water L at the shot, you know, And it does just say slug. In fact, it does just say slug U Best supportpping actctress of two thousand three, here were the Oscar nominees. I want to say this right now. The nominees were Renee Zalwuger for Cold Mountain, who won unbelievable Yeah, Shore Agadash Lu for House ofcend and fog, lovely numbers. media Patricia Clarkson for Pieces of April. better in the station agent, but still pretty good. Yeah. that's a weird one where that movie. It was a combo. doesn't exist, but there was a moment of Hey Patricia Clarks' good. She has two great performances this year. Let's give her a lifetime kind of You pick Yeah. And the piece of April, she has cancer or whatever. it's a little more But a totally forgot movie that's forgten. yes. Marsarcia Gay Harden and Mystic River. Kind of an oddnom. bad it. Yeah Polly Hunter in thirteen good performance because she's good actor in a very sort of over raob movie. Yeah. Ellen D Generous is better than all of those performances like by far. Dike it's not even a quest. Did Bapff to nominate her? I know they n They nominated M. I think they flirted with it like she might have made a long list or something. She got a couple of like she won the Saturn, but Saturns are, you know, a little. She got a couple of critics award, you know, like Chicago nominations a lot of critics saying like this is the time to finally do this. I want still has not happened. It still has not happened.ld performance. No, There are very few that are the level that deserve it It is the kind of transformative performance that I think the Oscars, especially when you hear those five names. Yes. No offense to them. No, but that's like a gooders all was not thing at the time. right? Yeah Yeah, that was also a big thing. Yeah. Um But that's also like motion. like we did get a Oscar for animy film, obviously, and it was nominated for scing play sound and music, I think.. music. The score is a great score It's Newman's best score. I was going to ask you. because I know sometimes you can be a little snarky about Newman. He goes as a thing that he does. Yes. And I enjoy the thing that he does, but I do feel that he, you know, you kind of know what you're getting with a Newan score. I think his best score. I agree with you It is a secret power of this movie just that it evenven though he and Randy Newman are part of the same lineage that all the Pixar movies musically sounded so similar and this one starts so differently. And when you hear the opening strands of the Thomas Newman score over the anemone house hunting scene at the beginning, you're immediately like, o Thomas Newman's whole thing he does all the time sounds like the ocean. It does. There is no better for his style. It's one hundred percent. than Oviously, Lord of the Rings won that year and that is very, very, very good music. sure already won Oon a fellowship, but you have to give it to him for return It has the beacon lighting Like it just it has the most like bvverish ever did They didn't give it to him for two towers. No, they didn't one zero two. Let's sign up It's also the hours. Let's travel through time. I keep being corrected that the hours didn't win it No, no, no, no, no right that becauseuse that's the freeeday year. old right it from glass. Interesting I think this is incredible year because Catch me if you canan is also nominated the wonderful Ela Bernstein score for F from Heaven and Thomas Newman's very nice Roger Brdishon score. I love that score. Very nice. But this feels like a real They fucked themselves by not giving it to Thomas Newman the year where it made the most sense And now they're just constantly living in the shadow of how many nominations they've given him Y. And the idea that he's maybe never going to have a moment as clear cut as this one again U The scores incredible, script's incredible. I feel and I feel like this is the point you're making even with the anti animation, you know stigmas This is a year we like Wally becomes a breaking point in two thousand eight.. We'll talk about in that episode that as much as Dark Knight, I would argue leads to the expansion of doesn't. it was part and parcel But this is a year where people were really like to nominate finding Nemo And it felt like the conversation couldn't get traction Even though everyone sort of sensed like this feels as important as Beauty and the Beast and sort of signaling a change in the industry on top of it being such a seismic success in a year without Lord of the Rings where you didn't have a more obvious blockbuster film. mayaybe this would have gotten in even with the anti voice actor prejudice I feel like fucking Ellen DeGens was like seven or eight on the list. Might have been? And part of that's just how weird and kind of weak that supporting actress field was But you're right, It does feel egregious that she couldn't beat any of those f I agree. I was transitioning, but then I wanted to interject quickly. I never saw this movie. What That's I knew what I wasest. It's true. It is the wettest film. When I was talking about how adults would go see this film, you were giving me a look like you were holding something back Yeah. it's so sweet I loved it I guess it makes sense that you weren't in the market for finding Nemo at the time. were. You were just enough older than us and you've also talk talked about your sort of like teenage like fuck the mainstream. I saw it because I'm like a nerdy film fan. L right, I had no reason to see it otherwise. two thousand three, that summer is when I graduated from high school Now I will say I'm somewhat similar to Dorory because at that point I had already really dove headf into a lifestyle that has led to memory loss. Ben has written this out. He's reading from a prepared statement for that. I just think you're say I want people to know the level of intentionality with which you're speaking right now. I think it's It's Wong Long term memory. Oh, sure. Yeah. The short term stuff, you remember, the bits. But we should I think introduce the podcast Oh. this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin Swish I want to point out, as I'm sure Griffin you already know Every Pixar movie before this one had come out in November. That was the Pixar spot. Y And originally this was planned for November two, but possibly because of sort of the aesthetic of the movie, right? sum sumer They're like no, may thirtieth U there are also a couple other things that factor into that, right? One is I think they didn't want to this not getting stuck in a rut thing we talked about The other thing that's happening around this time is last year goes out and poaches Brad Byird who now is sort of orphaned after Warner Brrosers animation has collapsed. And part of that was we're worried about repeating ourselves. We need to get someone else in to shake this up and change the pattern. And they talk about a little bit like Lilo and Stitch being seen as The secondary film red headed stepchild or Treasure Planet was the main focus.. That everyone was so fucking amped up about inccredibles and it was like, we got Brad Bird, he's a genius. The script is perfect.. We're making an action film. It's a little bit older. That Nemo' sort of slipping through the cracks a little bit is seen as less exciting and less sexy But there's also this thing that Disney is sort of pushing on Pixar. U, which is The movie comes out in May can sell merchandise in May Have the home video release come out around Thanksgiving. makeake it the number one Christmas gift and do a second wave of merchandise in December which basically Eisner pushes on them. as like to be a holiday film. But now that we know that Pixar is basically a proven brand and the movie' going to hit no matter what, we'll make more money on these characters if you release earlier. And most of the Pixar movies swing to summer after this Famously What were you going to say? No, what were you going to say famamously what There's the original Pixar deal after Toy Story where they sign them up for five films There'll be an autonomous company, but Disney has distribution rights and we willll own the characters in perpetuity And those five films are supposed to be Monsters Inc Nemo Um incredibles cars and a bug's life. I forgot the first one chronologically. Where they get fucked on this deal is they said sequels don't count We want you to make Toy Story two right away, but sequels don't count. that's going direct to video. When they up it to theaters Laster goes. So that's one of our five films And Eisner goes, no, we get that for free because it was meant for video. jer That leads to the tensions between Pixar and Disney that made people filak up. When they're done with the fifth film, which is going to be Cars, they're going to leave Um Every film was more successful than the previous film They kept outgrossing themselves And everyone around Eisner Disney was like You got to do what you anything you can do to make good with Pixar now because we can't lose them. And what Eisner kept saying was they're going to fail at something. One of these movies is gonna flop and then we're gonna own their asses because they're not going to have negotiating leverage. And he was really confident that Nemo was the one Well, he was wrong. He kept saying to people, this one's not as commercial, fish aren't going to sell as much merchandise evenven if it's just down a little bit, they're weaker and they'll come begging us. is their biggest hit yet. And that basically puts Death knell on Eisner. It's a big part of why he's pushed out of the company that he fucks that up with his arrogance. And that's a little bit, I think why they wanted to go to summer Um to see like if whatever But the other part of the story is that it was seen as the secondary film No one was confident about it There are these big fucking like cinema C and licensing you know, conventions where they have to go and sell these movies years in advance in order to get people on board with them for merchandise and for you know, the theater partners and whatever. And there was one of these where they didn't have enough footage to show. or it wasn't a good enough state And the movie had a bit of a stink around it because Eisner kept shit talking it and they need to go combat it. And they sent Andrew Stanton out and he basically performed the movie for forty minutes, similar to the pitch that he did for Lassader. And everyone walks out of that being like, that's the fucking biggest hit that shit the way he told the story and did all the voices and the emotions and. It's like Nigel telling the story to Nima T truly. And you can see it on it's on the DVD and the Blu ray and the fucking iTunes extras. there's like a super cut of the moments of him doing that. But he basically just kind of willed this movie into not being totally disregarded because Disney kept trying to like slide it over and anyone who was engaging with it was like, it feels like this thing has the Jews seventy million dollars, Chim likea biggest in their career in their times so far. Msters Ined sixty two. And at three thirty nine domestic, eight hundred seventy one worldwide. It's made more now with rereleases and stuff. The three D re release, which Stan oversaw is what convinced them to finally do finding Dory, but it also added basically another hundred million dollars to the g elsev we'll talk about It's number one at the box office on may thirtieth. Number two is the film that was number one the week before no. Matrix has been out for I think three plus week. Okay, let me go through May in my head. So the opening movie of the summer is X two, X Men United. That is number seven Then Matrix comes out the following weekend. Matrix reloaded is number four And no, I think there's two weeks between them. Okay. And then the next May blockbuster huge comedy Oh o, it's Burce Almighty Got a yoyo. That's the eararth. Like also open to seventy million. Huge huge check. This month was. America was just doing great. Yeah movies were doing great. was actually doing horrible. You basically had four consecutive seventy million dollars opening weekends. I remember it so well. It was my IMDB proro era. Right. My mom got a subscription for work. Yeah. And so I had it. and I had such good box office imagery and stuff. and like ye, I just remember like Bruce. Terrible movie. Yeah, awful. It's a bad movie. But it was the biggest comedy opening weekend of all time.. Matrix had a five day. So it's three day was a little smaller, but it opened over one hundred if you count the five day. Nemo's the biggest animation opening in history X Men was the biggest superure opening. Yeah, you got pirates coming down the pike later summer. Yeah. Oh those crazy. Bad boys two. Bad boys two, Terminator three. Yeah U But yeah, number three at the box office, opening against Nemo. slightly underwhelming in its opening, but I think it kind of legged out a pretty good growth. Italian job. It's Mark Wahlberg and Charlie Therron in the Ital. wasas a sleeper. It made it's a hundred in my memory Pretty fun. It's fun I've not seen it It looked like dogshit and everyone was like, why would they remake this? And then it kind of was amen is kind of like a national crime. This is offensive. Yeah. It was like you're making one of our things. You already did get harder. whyy are you kicking us even further I find the British obsession with the Italian job a little insane Like that movie is basically like boring until the end, which does Rck. Okay. Like the stuff with the minis is great. That's mostly not Interesting. But it's pretty fun. Italian job with Marklbergen andre Norton Charl Theron Mosta and whoever't say I've ever seen it. I remember it being huge and back when Canada's Wonderland was paramount Canada's Wonderland, there was an Italian job postter where you were riding in the Mini Cooers. Sounds fun. David Kanda's Wonderland theme Park that used to be paramount branded and is not anymore has like ten rides that are all clearly connected to Paramount movies, but they lost the license and now they're just generic. Yeah. so Top Gun is now like flight And and the Italian job one is called like stunt or Yeah, and toomb Raiders called like Temple explorer. Yeah. There was a Waynees World cooaster at one point called the Herinator. Okay, that I don't know about. That's awesome. Yeah, I'm trying to think what the other ones are, but that park is very funny for that reason. Yeah, the Italian job. ackclock stunt coaster. bigig icon of the park instead of like the Disney Castle is like the Paramount mountain. And now they're just like, it's a mountain But yes, the Italian Job roller coaster still has min coopers. And they're like, it's just one of those chase sequences from any Hollywood movie. Yeah, I see it right here. you're not going to change them Number five of the box office is a film you've seen many times many many many Specifically one of my movies. you don't like it but you've seen it movie like it I don't love it, but I've se your sister love this I do think this movie is very good. This is way up on the list of the movies I have seen most in my life because my sister Romy, past and future guest, longime sister. was not a kid who obsessively watched the same thing over and over again, other than this one film which for seven years was in constant rotation. Is Eddie Murphy's daddy daycare I. Oh yeah. We've spoken about this because this was a similar thing where it's like I was watching this genuinely every single weekend at my friend's house, It's like we're gonna have a sleep over.'sad. We're to watch Daddy Daycaare. I think Daddy Dcaare is very funny, but it could be Stockholm S syndrome. It is a movie I will defend is like, no, that one's actually well written and has a good cast Also, I've seen it so many times that if I didn't find it funny, I I wouldn't have been able to survive Um Number six opening this weekend, new is my favorite Eliza Douushku horror franchise.urn U which Wikipedia calls the first installment in the Wong Turn series. It's like, let's relax. What's your second favorite Eliza Dishc horror franchise out. all those other ones she's done Do love douchecoo, though. whoo doesn't love a little doucheu? Yeah douche it up. Number sevenre you a douch bag? What do you say?self identify as de douch bag. Yeah. Number seven is X two. Number eight is the in laws. so that's with Albert Brooks.ight Bombing at the same time bomb. huge bomb. Number nine is another bomb, but a great film, Down with love. love. And number ten is probably the most important cultural effects of two thousand three, the Lzie Mcuire movie Yeah Oh my go. I made a mistake opening it. What a summer that was summer of the Lizzie McGuire movie. Hey now, hy now. this is what dreams are made of. Oh yeah. The only risk can taking it Sing for me Pow. adventure is not taking it at all. I have a very def. in the finding Nemo message. a real kind of defining memory of all the girls in my grade going to see Lizzie MagGuire movie that Friday, opening day sameame day that X two X Men United came out And the girl were angry that none of the boys wanted to go see Lizzie Maguire and I Quite a big fan of the X Men And I remember the girls in my grade basically being like If you come see the Lizzie McGuire movie with us, someone will make out with you. Did anyone No, I didn't go see it. O course I went to X two, X men United X men, the X men are united in this film. I was like, I'm sorry, you don't understand what you're up against here You have no leverage in this compet. She was a pretty exciting day. That was pretty cool. I was like night crawlers in one. I know. And it was just kind of the thing of like the first one worked so they're going to get to be a little like more off the leash with. I was you could promise me that Jessica Alba would make out with me and I wouldn't go see the Lizzie McGuire movie right now and herself Can we talk about the import parts, please So a couple of very important things. It was revolutionary at the time, Turtle talkal with Crush. So EpCOot has the second largest research aquarium in the country is within EpCotT. It is something that Disney does not take enough advantage of. It's a wonderful little aquarium. And I think of interest to David was basically seen as on the chopping block in the early two thousands. All this educational scientific shit is lame. We got to get characters back in here They have rescue mananateities there So they decided they had a blockbuster fish movie saved all this shit. The Seas is now going be rebranded as the Seas with Nemo and friends. And one of the great attractions there is Turtle talkalk with Crush. Yes. That's where I've seen videos of this. Yeah, it's really at the time. It was live puppeteering basically, but animated a model that could do crowd work So the audience would be there. like your name's Griffin. Wow. cameras they make jokes about the guy wearing the sil. It's cohesive because you're looking at all these fish tanks at the aquarium. and then you go to one that's like a fish tank, but it's a screen and it's crushed and he makes jokes with all the kids and it's fun. There's also a little ride where you're riding in shells and the characters from Nemo are being projected onto windows into the real k But then there are also some sculptures and you're seeing real fish. It's like they kept using Nemo characters as the bait to get children to engage with real aquatic life. There's also I don't want to talk about it because it sucks, but they reskinned at Disneyland, the submarine voyage dried with No st. I could not disagree moreore. This is one of my favorite attractions. I want to skip over that. is one of my favorite spaces. It's not called finding Nemo submarine voyage. Convinced elevator pitch go into a submarine that is on tracks They make you feel like it's free floating, but you are genuinely underwater. And then it is a technical marvel where you are going around in a loop while the Thomas Newman score Sootothes my anxiety and you see a combination of real fish and like incredible projection where it looks like real animation is happening outside the window of the submarine. I'm going to be honest, you're selling But what was lost? Nothing was lost. It was just already kind of like a dull experience. But you're right. Aing the IP onto it doesn't. Yeah, it was more like It's a unique ride mech. A big fake octopus attacks you and you have like a Jace Custau style narrator just telling you about it. It's just funny because it's so to most people it would be very anxiety inducing. You're going into a small claustrophobic capsule and going underwater. think people are on the bo It's a very slow moving line. Yeah U But it's you all have your own seat. The seats face in opposite directions. Everyone has their own little hole they get to look at U I think I would find it anxiety provoking did it not have my good friends and the Thomas Newman score and the vibes and the colors. Maybe that's why I like it's so. It's twelve minutes That seems very long. I love Th these rides that are just like I'm not an. shit's gonna slow down. You just get to stay seated. Nothing's going to happen to your tummy. These are nice kind of refresh points in a theme park day. Yeah of like I can just vibe out here Yeah, and it's less overstimulating than like a small world or something. Yes. I never skip it. The last thing I want to bring up because I think it is one of the great achievements of the twenty first century at the theme parks, which is at Animal Kingdom findinding Nemo the musical. I think this is a really, really significant piece of theme park entertainment. The big blue and beyond. this is the re So a few years ago, they were like, we need to cut down the run in the context. That's a bastardized version forty minutes now, it's like twenty minutes. This was the first time Disney worked with Robert and Kristen Lopez. This is what's interesting about this day Got them off of Avenue Q to be like I Daring He's holding up big foam fingers and my sign is so far away back way that the stage uses the vertical space for these underwater creatures It's some Juliale you see the puppeteers visibly, but the puppets are in different ways worked around their bodies. The Nigel puppet is incredible. The most impressive biggest thing I've outside of The King Kong musical, it's like that Nigel puppet. is jaw dropping and the song that they do for the turtles. is so good. It's like a beach boys type thing and it's just Awesome. I also think not my dad is a great song. Db's's Well first, it's where's my dad and then it's not my dad. Right, When Nigel tries to the story in the big blue world. like these songs are genuinely for theme park entertainment It is an excellent family musical. I don't understand why they've never this is my tried to do it on The Lopez over the Lopez has over deellivered on a theme park musical, which made Disney go like, oh, fuck, we got to have these people work on everything, which leads to obviously frozen and cocoa and all these other things Yeah I have never understood why they've never attempted to transfer this to Broadway because even just like the visual approach, they they cracked the code on how to make these characters work on stage.. They cracked the puppets, the songs are good. I'm like, if you just doubled this length and I'm sure they would just write more songs. Easily. R And there's so many good songs packed into it already. This thing would be a huge fucking' hit and instead of ever transferring it after like fifteen years, they were like, let's make it shorter Yeah And now it's like a fifteen minute like greatest hits' a bridge version. Yeah, but I will never say. Is that just to move people through Like why a brridge? Maybe kids attention spans nowadays and also probably some equity thing with the performers. like this is a really, especially Crush' song. Yeah For a guy to be singing that it's tough on the voc for it. It looks like Crush's song is called Go with the Flow. It absolutely is. What But David? Thee parks love having shows like this that are successful because they're people eaters. They take pressure off the lines for the rides. Yeah If you can get someone to sit down for forty minutes and you can pack a house. And this was one of the few shows that people were like, this is actually good. It's not just kind of like a shitty restaging of You know, there was the low. I know Becca has to go. I'm you guys could just keep going. I feel like you guys We this for another hour. Oh God, I really do need to go sa. Hasave you ever been on podcast the right? No because I haven't been Well we've spoken about it, but then like I don't know when I'm going to be in LA next. Podcast the Ride and doog are they It feels like you have been inevitable on This is like and the schedules never line up. This is the beginning of my like life's wish triple crown. Like I feel like for you, like being on Blank Cck is an enjoyable lark, but like it's a mere stepping stone to podcast No, no, no, no no, you misunderstand. I love Blankchheck. Well, that's very nice of you. It's's I love everything you do. A masterpiece of podcast It's a dream to be on the podcast that I like so much Is there no other neemo theme park stuff? Well, there's Crush's coaster in Paris. There's a simulator in Disney Sea but Oh Crush' cooaster. Yeah, Cr's cooaster delightful. It's very good. It is the exact kind of ride you hate. It's a shell that's moving fast and you're spinning. You're in an indoor roller coaster. a mousey type ride. They play the kind of surf roocky. Yes.. I like that you knew the time Isn't that what they're call tiny coaster It's very fun. It's in the run to me. Yeah. But you would hate like bullshit. Yes. What was the other they play the Thomas Noonan like surf roock score. The environment's very fun. They have lights and colors. Yeah. And that's in the bad part of Disneyland, Paris right? Alough it'side reranded it. now they have Olaf there. They have Aon Children get to learn about death by watching Olaf power down in front of them. Oh ye, R I sa down on a boat. which is so it's so the on we have make they made an animatronic forilan Harris who dies in front of you. Yes. I will say Crush's cooaster doesn't look that intense. I'm watching. That's a family coaster.. This is the other thing with Disney. Nothing is I know that intense hell R. But that is as close to being a thrill ride as Disney gets basically. Yeah Oh, disagree. What do you put higher? I'm saying evenven at that park, Indiana Jones is way more intense I made the mistake of getting my brother was living in France at the time and I took him to Disney and he showed up with his backpack and his laptop because he said, I'm going have to just do some work at some point And so he was really worried about the security of his laptop. And he was like, this thing isn't going to go upside down, right? And I was like, no, it's Disney. Nothing goes upside down He was very angry at me at the end of that ride. Does it go upside down? It does. It's the Minecart roller coasterfortunate. It does one loop. I think so. O little sa will keep holding onto his backpack Vulture. I will plug vulture. com sureure. And That's pretty much it. I think. Popcorn bucket. They've canceled they've canceled my ad. It's bullshit. The man the man doesn't wantan be speaking truth about Devil wears P product bucket shaed a b. I tried to fuck Michaelackson bucket shaed like a hat. They don't want me revealing these stories. were shhamed. And I'll say tried to force the issue through critical darlings. Yeah, we really did. So actually you every comment on all of Vulture's social medias and bring back the pcorn The buckets still exist. I came in today asking Becca to do a bucket trade because I never got the Fantastic car from Fantastic four first sts. and I said I would promise to trade her the F one popcorn bucket that was supposed to be part of the Critical Darlings Oscar nominees segment, You're in Review. And Beckca has made it clear that she does not want the bucket. I have five Mulania buckets on my desk I know to do with them. Those things. talkalk about being worth negative comedy points. Yeah. The Melania bucket. They make me laugh. Okay. M Lee Cronin's the mummy have a bucket That's like a dead child I' I'm off the. They pulled me off the c. It's an injustice and what if it was just Lee Cronen? That would be good just to honor him. Lee Cronnin's the popcorn? Yeahactly. Let's make it clear to our listeners. Let your voices be heard. Becca. prereviously on the Masead chief popcorn critic. popcorn bucket critic And we want this reinstated. We want the coverage back. U yeah, but in the same way that you should all um join Blink cheheck Patreon. you should This is a good p. Subscribe to a magazine. Subscribe to our magazine. I'm a Nework magazine subscriber. hasashtag Bring back Becca's buckets, sure On the day of the release of this episode, june twenty first over on Patreon Roboc Cop I is coming out. Oh A movie I love as much as Finding N. A movie a commentary where we're kind of like, this isn't very good. The whole time. Oh sorry. C we take that We reveal our deepest secrets. I get pretty worked up. I don't want people to think I'm pretty worked up You get pretty worked up. I get pretty work I think where we're even handed and fair about its flaws. I try not to be an asshole. Right. We're not just like shitting all over. We're just kind of like my shows up randomly that we'veed about that kind of looks like me you're doing like fun sweep sweep kind of stuff. Yeah R. Joeiden's the gu Ele Erkle peers R We we have Orel Stefan orrkeel Okay Steverle, Steve Verle and the Erkle Bot all appear on the episode bot bot us there. Yeah, take us out when AJ recently plugged Erle in our group chat. No, did he? Yeah, he did. This is another thing I've been thinking Interestant and AJ kind of looks similar. Yeah, sure Got some AJ vibes. Yeah a little bit. Yeah. I mean, you're justking about like a guy and a half zip with like hair. I mean, like not to insult agJ. It's kind of like a normal looking guy. Yeah. Yeah AJ's very handsome, but he looks like the default video game avatar. like right. He's your simim before you start doing stuff Sorry, JJ,'re good. I prefaced it with her we employee is good looking sexy. It actually sucks I hated spending a weekend with this fucking hot ass. I'm to stand next to him. And former employee Nick texts me after meeting Ben being like, what's his skincare routine? Yeah And I was not the secret. I was like, Nick, why would I know I mean, that is funny that he asked you. but ask Ben. I don't fucking know Where's my secret. I don't do shit. Yeah, that was That would have been my guess. AJ and his family came into the city and we got lunch with AJ and his son. and he was telling me that he' he's into SNL now. AJ's son who's like eight, I think And so I was asking him about which sketches he likes and which cast members he likes. And I was like, do you like Hollin Joost And he went, whoo's Colen Jast and HJ went the guy where where he comes on screen, you point and go daddy. Dude. Someone at one of our live shows texted me like, I think Colin Jost is here. AJ is I was calling J's AJ. L that' just AJ Yeah, so Colin Jose, Andrew Stanton, AJ McKon all on a spectrum. I just want to establish this at the beginning of the mini series. These are huge Cin unannounced to sitt in the Anited Dts ag. I overheard Colin Jose talking about making edits to a Patreon episode Why is he doing that? I'm gonna pee, take us out Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate review and subscribe. I'm very excited to be talking about the films of Andrew Stanton fewew filmmakers we have ever covered or will ever cover more conform to the infro of this show directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passashion products they want. Sometimes those checks clear Wally and sometimes they bounce baby John Carer In three films, that's the whole fucking premise of this podcast That's all I just I'm very excited to be doing this And I'm very excited that we're going to talk about Toy Story five on Mainfeed. and I'm very excited And I'm glad that Davids in the bathroom when I'm saying this so he doesn't get jealous getting married in Toy Story F y's wedding He's wedding themen. 's going to make Karen Beverlely an honest knife Tune in next week for, Wally withith David Erlick a man who has seen that film eight hundred times, I think approximate where And as always She is getting married ust I'm making these edits here, David Uh, you're going to have to be Hemo Okay. Yeah. I think that's the lighter born for that role., it's the light, you have to be Marlin. If you're not Marlin, it's a disaster. Correct. I mean, I think you should just do your Marlin line that you've been doing on this show for eleven years