Peter Weir and Cinematic Patience

April eighteen oh five Holy and his master of Europe Only the British fleet stands before him Podcasts are now podcasts Podcasts are now podcast. Podcasts are now podcasts. No. I think it hass gotta be podcasts are now battlefields or oceans are now podcasts. Which one is think is Oceans are now podcasts. Oceans You can't put podcasts for both. doesn't, yeah, But there is a lot you could do Like one must always choose the lesser of two podcasts. You just said there's only one thing I I think that's the thing. And I tried to throw you off the hump by putting podcasts in two places to make you annoyed Joe Rogan is m I would like to at the start of this episode ask you to try and not make me annoyed on this episode, please. That is a sincere request from me. Okay? I am not intending to make you annoyed on this episode. Okay. Well, I want to make that sincere request. This is a movie that really matters to me and I don't want you to be real allre material there is a real I want to right on the record to start this episode. I'm not trying to do any neggging. You just just said he tried to make me don Y damn hobbies, man. the one thing You said there's only one thing I could do. Well, I mean, I do feel like I'm wearing it right now. You I feel like that is because it's their opening She was like it's the most. But then I was like, But of course, there are so many great lines. And I want. And I love your admiral hat. There are no admirals in this movie, Ben. Oh boy, here we go. Is this one of your ten favorite movies of all? Yes, I think it is. And I think I should just like next time I do Sight and sound being like I love you you some important movie I should just fucking put this on there? ' why is this not an important movie? It is. This is what I'm saying. Before we started recording, you said maybe this is the most I think it's the most important movie to me. Last night you texted like the best movie ever. This is, isn't it Is it not? Are you talking to me? Yeah Very self conscious about being here, I must say. Oh, you're worried because you're like, I don't you know, you don't get worried. I had my wor weeks ago as the Peter Weir thing was just getting started in my feed. I had lunch with J Diamatto. The great J Dimato. Great J Dimato. And I'm willing to say this past and future guest That's a big Oh yeah Soat will come back. He was on just last week and he'll come back again. Good becausecause he's waiting outside. R, he was just on the show in Chronology. And I said to Jie, we're talking about all kinds of things.. Oh actually, you know what? emmbarrassing for you? Mandalorn in Grogo? It's in between. So Gethard was righting Jadie was on too. I regret to inform you, it is, in fact, the Mandalorian in Grogu So I u really I was gesturing to Grogu someere somewhere there is Grogu Ggu Yeah in down there in this palace of secrets and delights. I'm sure we got a Grogu somewhere. You got got gotta get a Grogu in here somewhere. It's gotta be a Grogu right? You know, there isn't, and I've actually I've been surveying the landscape recently. I'm like, does there need to be some Grogu representation in this office? And if there is, what's the one? I don't know if you know this. It's a very merchandised character. Oh you're kid. There's too many Grogu items. ggu So I'm trying to pick the one. I'm sorry you were getting lunch with the Grogu. I was having lunch with JDymato. We were talking about a lot of things. and I mentioned I'm excited about this Peter Weir thing Yeah because I love Peter Weir. Yeah. haven't seen all the movies. Yeah. But I mean and a lot of them I hadn't seen since they came out because I'm elderly And'm I was a weird I'm realizing now I was quite a weird child I remember seeing Galipoli when it came out or maybe a couple of years would have would have been a teenager. I would have been like twelve or thirteen. Right. But this is amazing. Why was I why was I going to see The year of living I was say This this is a man who feels aligned with your sensibilities and makes movies that are aligned with your interests. Is that fair to say? My interest as a twelve year old was definitely Sigorny Weaver. Buting the code is one We were also, you know, a bit of a Weird A nerdy fea. pretend something historical might have interested you. But I said to J Damato, I can't wait uillil they get to Master and Commander And I wonder who the guest will be And Jie said I don't know if anyone will because it's it may be David's favorite movie. It's one of David's favores. We did see we did spirt it away. Yeah, that' that's in that conversation This this is the exercise I wanted to do. N done alien we did on the Patreon. We did on Patreon. I was thinking through our respective, ten favorite movies of all time, and I feel like we have covered most of our list, the majority. And then the question is, what are the outliers? I haven't covered a lot of what I would call my favorite. What would you put in your tent? Spirited away, alien, master commommander, Matter of life and death U we both we both hope to do thatking Express, which I another one I'm doing someday. one car Y, of course We done all one hundred drive We have Never done ye, ye. No, But in other words, it's been thrown out a lot. Okay. so four out of ten right now Ltlanta. Mal Wed, Mal Booust M Wed Projection The Mal Booust M most Wanted spec sequel that I wrote in. Malb Second Most Wanted. Isn't it nice when a title just gives you a layup on this right there second know it's m suced, but it is right there. They could have done it. Yeah. You know, there's probably others I'm not thinking of I've it. We've done it you've often referred to as way up there Jair McGuire And that is true, R right. It's sort of like Jry McGuire, I've seenty times Master commander I' seen for many Do I think like late spring is one of the greatest movies ever day? Yes, yeah. H I seen it like like two or three times max? big the big ten. because I'm put this movie on to Yeah, it's like I was just watching the Pit last night Pit finale. Yeah, anyone watch? No push master and commommander to get my BP down, right I'm coming in in crisis. Dr. Robby would be like, Get Master and Commander in the DVD right now Con vanel down. They'll get his sats where they need to be, right I have done that many times in my relationship with my wife like You know, like, I've been like stressed out and I put it on And then like twenty minutes and she's like, that really really dis settle your mood. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, shhip is England. Yeah. We have a movie coming up in a couple of weeks that is one of those for me. Right. But I was thinking Tooy story two, Edward. guessed on by our current guest. I think that was the first time I ever appeared on the show. Is that right? Yeah? Yeah, I think so. Gosh. Broadcast news is probably in my ten. Rble cop. Robert I was going to say That's sort of the Griffin episode too, where you're just kind of like You're Kobe. You're just like, let me ball. like for eight minutes. I want to be clear because I knowe your sensitivity and I want to be very clear. This is your episode. The way you talk about like it'd be great if we did the muppets so I could take two months off I want to watch you too Wellll go off about the thing It is David's episode. It is. And so and when Jie told me that, I was like, oh, great, I can't wait to hear it. Oh sure.. And then You know, I'm also aside from being a weird only child even to this day. I'm also a great insinuator, but I promise you insinuate myself into things that I love. Yeah And I promise you though that I was not trying to like I texted you guys after I listened to Glippy episode with Jennifer Kent, which is great. Thank you. and And I revisited Glipply. She's the coolest. She's the coolest, movies's amazing, etcetera. was this journey, I could't myself, n I I said, I can't Wait till you guys get to Master and Command. and then David goes Do want to be on it? Well, I'll give you a little behind the scenes here. We had been going back and forth on is this a classic guest. So we do know guests, which is fine. Sometimes there is a movie like like RoboCop, you know, where it's just like, this means so much to one of us Do we need another voice in the room And then when we get into those hypotheticals, there's always a like, if it was the right person, it could add even more to the episode. It could be cheese on top of the bird. Oh look, I wasn't gonna to say you like, No, because I love this movie But at the same time, I feel self conscious they' not here. I just want to say this to you. Okay. I don't know what qualifies me to be here other than I have been on a boat And I'm very happy to talk about boat. you've been on many a boat. your're a boats man. I mean, I want to share with the listeners that when Mr. Hodgman doing his levels He was going through different kinds of wind. This is true. and he's wearing a hat You know more about the high seas than I. He's wearing a hat's very helpful. Why not and has a drawing of a knot. Yeah. This is. It's a pink trucker hat. Yeah But too my point, ry I'm not sure Griffin, but I think he might have drawn that on there. Not sure that that was no No I had a commissioned. I had it was not commissioned It's not it's not bespoke. I bought it off the rack. reallyally at the general store in the unnamed coastal town in Maine where I spend some time. It was created by the daughter of our friend Molly, Lola Blake teen year old Lola Blake You are going to like this, Ben She makes t shirts and hats. where she draws nautical shit on it And the name of the line is Sip happens. This Oh that is good.. This is really good. It's a great and if if you wish to inquire, I've just received an email from her mom. Hey. Sip happens Brooklyn at Gmail dot com that's BR okay people want to order. Okay. If you want to acquire She's not she's thirteen years old.. Yeah Yeah. let's overwhelm her. It's not overwhelm. reire. But we had gone back and forth. We were like maybe this guest, if the timing worked out, there were a couple options. but we kept being like, but also David, it could be guestless. I think that's a strong move if it's guestless And then you had popped into my head truly the night before as like, I feel like Hodjman loves that. beyond just being a man of the low seas. I think he specifically loves that movie. You sent the text. I side text David I go I even thinking Hodgeman for MNC And immediately David was like, Yeahah, that makes sense. Yeah. There was no argument about it It was absolutely. like I like a comforting guest. I a real friend. I aim to be a comfort to you here I feel sometimes I push my way through into into podcasts and sort of try to wrestle control I mutiny. Do you know what I mean? Today, you are a captain my captain. relax. Everyone relax. I am your midshipman Hoam It's a shameful. I was going to say that that's not the guy you want to be. a shameful He's worse in the books impmoster syyndrome guy and any point I'm going gonna do off this ship with a cannonball Wse in the book. Yeah, his character is less sympathetic in the books, but we don't have to get into that because this is not, you know, the books. How hard have you gone on the books? I'm not as hard as I could because there's so many of them So o, wait, what's this podcast This podcast is called Blank Check withith Griffin David. My name is Griffin. I am town are Viols for a moment and get the podcast, which are playing guitars. Yes. It is a cool moment. It It's incredible The greatest ending in a movie H This movie is the fucking greatest shit that's ever happened. This obvious does not mean as much to me as it does to you, but I cannot deny that ending for a millisecond. For It's like the greatest ending line. It's phenomenal. Perfect ending line. you're like, Ohh I'm happy and then they're like, let's fucking, you know, have sex, AKA play our stringon rins together. and you're like, wonderful. They're doing it. And you're like, this is great So violent of the side And you're like oh, this is so saucy and then they swabbing blink blink And then and you're like they're gonna have a million more adventures. Like where else whereere else can this go? Are you gonna tell me? that the vision is now picking up his cello and playing that like a guitar. He is the vision Like in the in this perfect scene, how could it get better and it does the final scene My father owned all of these books. He was very, very into these books. and so I have them all in my house. I have read, I would say, I think six of them I have they are They are something that dads, especially Yeah,. There's twenty books. There was a twenty first It was twenty the first at the time of his. It is unfit.. And I think this is by whom The author's name is Patrick O'Brien. I think it's a pseudonym And he wrote them, The first one's nineteen sixty nine, the last one came out thirty years later. So there are twenty books in thirty years. And Master Commander is the first one? The name of the first one is Master and Commander. Okay Uh and the name of the last the name of the tenth one is the far sideide of the world. This one this the movie it's pulling it pulls from various things. Yeah. They are I think our guest Joh Haoddr, whoit we haven't introduced yet. the way. I also haven't finished the intro. Yeah. They are very heavy on the particulars of naval life And Napoleonic procedure and all of the stuff that goes into being on a fucking boat. Sight on ses, certainly the poop That is exactly what I imagineed. The ropes, the kn Lines lines Ben. lines, lines Ben. We all know this lines. They're called lines, not ropes on a ship. They're very interesting. What's crazy is like the first book, Mastering Commander is You know, what do you think it is? It's Aubrey's only a He's just become Mastering commommander. He used to be a liieutenant Master and commommander is like a naval rank, to be clear. It's sort of sort of like a captain, basically and it's like him meeting Maturn and all that. The second book is called Post Captain and it's mostly about them onhore while there're like various shit is happening like He's lost money ' like the debt court is dealing with his seizured assets. And it's kind of like a Jane Austen novel and it's kind of about them both falling in love You know, like it's just crazy that was the second book. And then the third book like they get the HMS surprise. they're back on the seas. like The books actually do defy what you think of them as just like dad shit. They are really, really awesome and interesting, but I am no expert on them I'm not I'm like not an expert on the book. I'm certainly less of an expert than. And you read the first one you said, I read I read like six of them. I re read half the first one and then I realized And If I go down this road I willll never get. Maybe should read them all. You got up to the Amperand and then you give up I read the master part This is a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passashion projects they want sometometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce Baby This is a mini series on the films of Peter Weir I tried to call it pods during cast Mander, the pod side of the cast, but instead it is called Podnicket hanging cast Today we are talking about his penultimate film. Yes. whichich is fascinating only because it is twenty three years ago The man is still alive And this has now become here of the films that he's known for For sure But I wonder if He is even known for the film. That In other words, I think the people who idolize this film in its reassessment that's been going on over the past half a decade or so or decade Think of it as a Peter Weir film, or just think of it as a master and commander. It's certainly a question we've been interrogating and doing this series is how many people put these movies together? under the vision of one person and how they're filed in their mind. It feels like there are a few people who have Enough films that loom this large in the culture public doesn't really have a sense of Well, as I've been watching them over the course of listening to you guys do it so far and reminded like He he he doesn't have a genre? No He doesn't have it doesn't have like a through line. His defining style is very subtle and is malleable. Yeah. and he's not showy. right. evenven though he is Probably one of the most showy not telly directors. Yes that I can think of off the top, But in a very elegant quiet way. Yeah. I also think kind of disappears. It is interesting to me, even just in going through these movies, how few of them at the time were really sold as from the director of Blank and Blank couldn't do that with him because I feel like it would just look weird for this poster with Russell Crows to then be like from the director of the Truman Show. People like, well I like the Truman S show, but right that doesn't Well I mean, how do you connect be Rom Well they put the boats That's tr. That's a good point. Do both have sailing scenes. Yeah. But let me just say the Truman show sailing scene, not very realistic First of all, it's inside a dome. Well, this's a very rare point. the film one might call science fiction I think about it a little bit. Isn't the shared thing we've been talking about with him though is that his films cover small communities. I was about to say this is I think that's very insightful. There's so many boat movies. There are so many other boat And I feel like there are so few that are about like the ecosystem of life on the boat that like versus this. Obviously parts of the Caribbean This same stand They have It's fascinating Pentacles Yeah possibly and have been cursed We do get into that life. Yes. But do we hear about Salutin dayay Okay. No, no. does, you know, I mean, like does just is is there a killick No, there's not. No, well, because Jack Sparrow has a forty thousand dollars a month rum budget He does. He's staying up all night with his Hollywood vampire friends Much noodling? ripping? Yeah F Alice Cooper. I wonder what Aubrey would make of of Captain Jack Sparrow if if he would like the cut of his gem. I feel like maybe not. but u It is funny that right the same year you have pirates of the Caribbean and all the British Naval officers in that, which I think is great are these prigs, right? A these like stuffy sort of gray Star Wars andry L You know, I mean, I know Jack Devenport has a little more flare and then he gets sexy in the second one and he's sort of back to being good narrative. He's got good arc in those movies. Th movies are the first three. Yeah. I think of. the Caribbean did kind of fuck this movie, right? I mean, obviously this film was well reviewed, got a ton of Oscar nominations. It did all right. I don't think super expensive. and obviously the ambition was to launch a franchis that didn't happen. This movie is a miracle. This movie is a miracle. It's a miracle it exists. I agree. It's incredible. it exist. It's incredible. was made. it was right. It was an Oscar contender. like Yes, should there have been sequels certainly. if twentieth century Fox had just had a stiff back about it. fucking done it because like it's a movie that had such a long life. Yeah has such a laure And they could have just seen that comeing. And they could have just been like, look, Crow He's going to fit into these, you know, breaches. for another six, seven years Max. Like let let's try to get another two bo. We always point to Robin Hood as Robinood seeven years later. tightened up a little. You wouldn't even look I mean, in all respect to Crow's performance Yeah this movie, which is good Like it didn't even tempt someone to go whyy don't we do a young Jack Aubrey been threats recently. I don't have this Yeah. But then someone stops and thinks about it and goes Oh shit, we'd have to film on a boat. I think that's what ought to big part of it. Yeah. is how do you achieve it? I mean, I couldn't even even though I've seen this movie a couple of times rewatching it Yeah For this The first thing I thought of this movie is a miracle in the sense that I can't believe it existed and it will never exist again. Yeah, in part because those boats are it's nuts what they did. I also think And it would be CGI now and it would not I think that's more. You could do it, but it probably be a little. But to the credit of the people running twentieth century films now, don't you think they know if they made a young Aubbery prequel that was shot in the volume people would revolt. They know they can't do that. They There would be a muny. I don't think they're going to do that. What do you want to say, Johnion to speak, please O guest today is Joh Hodman, by the way, Judge John Hodgeman How many episodes have you been on? Sorry is your seventh episode N not including voicemails. You've done some favors. Thank you. The they live subliminal cuts. That's right. You were inside the little door in the cororal line episode. You did h the watchatch Infinity War with us on Patreon. You did watched the movie the night before. I didn't realize we were gonna be watching a live show two. I'm a little I'm much more of an able semen now. You're dear friend of theour seasons You've always delivered. In the dialogue of the show, I started out as a landsman, as a lubber You're a pretty I became a normal semen I' been ableemen consonsistent kind of one a year blank check, I will say, looking at your record here. L at your any timee you wish I will be here. Well, you're a busy man M. All right, let's take it back Let's maintain that fiction. I'm make I'm going to make this case that if someone at twentieth pictures Like let's do another mastering commander Uh, it would be a failure And here's why David put his his his masterly and commanderly finger on it This is dad shit And the thing is this came out in my Sots kind of the last time dads were going to movies So many dads were seeing Peter weirre movies. There' a lot about dadism. just to get this out of the way. What would happen is a show, not a movie They would do a streaming series. Yes, well that's thing. now dad That's what they offerike dads areill and I'm speaking to this from personal experience. Dads are definitely watching YouTube's about sleeper cars on trains across trains sleeper one of those. Right gondolas and funiculars I would say less so for. Dead empires. Yeah. And And you think the hitightes up to tell R. Exactly. And you think I ha been going to sleep watching YouTube videos with three D models of the HMS victory breaking down a classic British ship of the line of eighteen oh five. Of course. And that's what I'm doing at home. Dads are not going to go to see dads dads stay at home and watch see that itous victory, you know, That's what I hear. You should go. Well where? Portsmouth ortsouth Newampsire Unfortunately, my friend, know, it's in the origin top on the way to Main It's kind of in the UK. Yeah. Well, it's a little easier. This is the point A lot more dads would stay at home and watch a streaming master in commander. Th they would go to Portsmouth to stand onfortunately, they wouldn't, I think one way more dads would even go to Portsmouth to stand on the deck of the ship where Lord Nelson died the HMS victory. Yes, he did die there. The greatest then go to a cinema to watch a Master and Commander movie. I just think it's where we're at. And this is like the dad shit in this movie is Obviously, obsession with boats and procedure and all male worlds, but it's also about the dadly relationship that he has with the young officers, all dadism all the way down I just want to, you know who Horata Nelson is obviously. Sure. Okaykay, O you know a little bit Yeah, even you guys don't know who Nelson is, right? He was was invoked in this movie. Lord Nelson, vcount Lord Nelson. Yeah. the guy who stands on the column andalus Yes.'s that's how I often will like because my wife has watched this movie with me multiple times. and every time I'm like, you get whoelson is right? She's like No, donon't know what where you're talking about. likeike whatever you told me last time, it's gone again. But like and I keep trying to be like, he's the most important British person who ever lived And it's kind of crazy that like most important probably And like it's crazy apart Churchill, I would say is the ob That feels like the obvious It's between the two of them Churchill is like a Obviously, he, you know, he's Pretty cool like or whatever, but he's a pretty complicated figure. Yeah, you know, he has a he has some some failures, Gppi among them in his ledger, you know, he was, you know y liked grog. Yeah. he did like. I mean, but in the morning he'll be sober and you'll still be ugly. But like Nelson is fuc five Nelson' the guy who beat say something nasty sitt in a circle of these guys And it's like one of those things where I'm like, right like only British every British child knows who Admiral Nelson is, but like no fascinating No other person really outside of Britain wouldnt care to. Who is he equivalent to even in like American Eisenhower, I guess. Like who's the most famous Gular proble Pat Yeah. Who's the most famous American military leader? It's one of those guys. Yeah. Eisenhower Patton Yeah brand Someone like that. Washington. Nelson is the other ship captain they're talking about, right? Yeah. and that's kind of the beauty of all of Peter Weir's storytelling, which in my opinion, he'll drop esoteric ship. But he can textual well, I mean, if you're an American But it's contextualized enough for an American and for a blay viewer that you know this is like the greatest dude that's ever lived and they're all excited just to do it. But you do fact that he sat at a table with him is blow andine Did you do know that there's the big column in Trafalgar Square in London, likeike there's a big column guy. He's the guy on top of it. Oh sh. because he beat Napoleon. which we kind of which we, you know, British people really like to bring up, you know, like that we he beat Napoleon the second time Wellington also be Bonaapart. 'tulling him Oh, okay. I was wondering. The guy from the water Park. Yeah. I mean, sorry, his was the first time. Wellington is the second. Yeah. Wellington is Waterloo. There' two things I want to say. One about the deeath of Dad cinema, right? It does feel like that is an audience that was lost permanently. in the pandemic that those are people who are just like, I just got used to watching things this way. It is just not a thing I even consider going to theater to see stuff. Right. And I can surround myself with all my dadly comforts. Yeah. And I think even through the late twenty ten s, there would be dad hits that would punch through And it feels like those things go straight to streaming now and one that's really emblematic and feels like a counterpoint of The miracle of this movie being made at this scale by a major studio, this seriousness close to twenty five years ago versus like, I think still one of the most watched streaming movies of all time, certainly the number one movie in the history of Apple Plus is Tom Hanks' Greyhound. movie, whichich was meant to be a theatrical movie. Right It was a COVID shuttle to Apple TV because of COVID. And he just finished filming a second one. L he has made this a franchise for him And they are movies that just like, unless you are the target audience, you aren't aware this exists. I would say, here' some examples of Dad movies recently and I think succeeded. Okay. mveric, but that doesn't totally count, but it still counts. The magic of that is that dad movieies part of the slice versus the whole pie Ford versus Ferrari, I think Dad movie was a big part of that. That's a twenty nineteen though. That' perfect example for me. but not that long ago. Sully, you know, these are movies that still like made a hundred million domestic. And you're like this audience is majority dad Alienware's back to school event is the perfect time to score top gaming gear with incredible features and Intel core processors to go beyond performance. Lord knows, I'm stressed about returning to school. You can save big on gaming desktops, laptops, and more. Start your Alienware journey with the Alienware fifteen gaming laptop featuring Intel core processors Smoothly game, live stream and multitask for hours on end. Plus, play through every game exactly how you want with customizable alien FX lighting across your alienware ecosystem, creating your very own gaming profile and more. we're talking full disclosure. Finally, pair your incredibly smooth gaming experience with immersive visuals and sound by saving on sleek alienware, monitors, headsets, and more the world deserves to know. This limited time sale awaits you now at alienware dot com slash deals. That's alienware dot com slash deals post COVID. the oldies aren't showing up and we got them to show up. We got to get him to show up, but that's not going to make Russell Crow forty years old again. There's no there's no sequel. there's no perfect sequel to master and Commander by Peter Weir with Russell Krn Paul, Betneither will ever get, but that's okay because we have this movie and it ends so perfect. This is the second thing I wanted to say to this point. This movie is a miracle. How does it exist Tom Rothman, who was pretty infamous at this point of being like a pretty brutal kind of mercenary sort of here's the future of studios. You know, he's not too precious about art. He wants to make entertainment He's noting everything to death Now he's in charge of Sony Columbia Yeah And he feels like the throwbacky guy who's going out to cinemaon often. We got to make original movies, you know, is just to cinema just like last week people like stop having so many fucking ads in front of everything and all the AMC people are like shifting their se Windows need to be three or four months.. You know, we need to make things for like different audiences. in the two thousands, he was seen as like, is this guy too cass a businessman? and now he feels like one of the last guys fighting for integrity, but was just sort of a brass tax guy. Dpite being as everyone said big fan of movies, very well educated, but he's like, well, my job is to like run this like a business This was a fucking passion project for him He was not applying the usual checks and balances in his head to this movie because it was like from the moment he fucking got that seat at Fox He was like, I'm going to be the guy who's finally going to get the fucking Abery movies off the ground onto S, can I say something? Yeah Looking at his biography here, I can tell you that when this movie finally came out, he was forty eight years old. In real dad territory is the dad to two daughters? Yep He was into this danceit. He was a dance shit. Hes into the dance shit. Now, here's The weird parallel I was going to say When the story came out a couple years ago that boxes maybe or twentieth centuryies may be noodling with A master and commander, reboot. There's no writer attach or there was a writer attached, no director attached, Young Aubrey, whatever it is The reason that was happening was not just because this movie has gained such a reputation and a coult. because Jason Isbel, who is now the head of twentieth century first movie as a junior exec. I think it's Steven as're right sorry. Jason Isbel is a musician, I believe y Okay. I was gonna I mean, I guy teairs it up on online with right wing weirdos. This was the first movie he ever worked on And so he has some weird romanticism and nostalgia for this as well. Yeah I don't think he gets it over the finish line. but it's the only reason we're even talking. Let's move off of that. because we're not talking about that. We're talking about master and commander. We're talking about Peter Weirer's film Master C commander. Whenere did you see this film, Griffin? I saw this in theaters, sure. I believe if not Even opening weekend, I want to say there was maybe even like a preview possible. weeekend a week or two early Here's my relationship to this movie. came out in November, right before Thanksgiving, two thousand three makes obviously perfect sense for it. I went to see this with the off invoked Derek Simon, my childhood friend, my oldest friend. Hi Dk We went to see it opening weekend The movie starts and like three minutes and I was like, o right, I don't like this kind of movie I sat there and a young man. You what are you fourteen? Yeah, yeah. this is not my kind of thing. I sit there, I respect the craft of it, but there was a little bit of, oh, I just signed up for a class in a subject I'm not interested in. right? What kind of movie was it to you at that time What kind of movie was it to you? when you say, I don't like this kind of movie It's like a history movie. It's a bunch of boys. It's a war movie. and you know, like this is not a Griffin movie. M. especially not teen Griffin. No, especially not Ten Griff. No monsters or puppets. No No. There's no cartoon characters. I don't want to let's not make it sound like that's the only kind of thing I li. You were fourteen that I liked. you lik more genres. It's a very stoic film It's a veryly reserve heart with a lot of wonderful humor to it. but yes, that's true. And it's it's, I think very earnest Right, pretty earnest. R. I was not a fan of history in a general sense. It's just one thing after another, you might have said's of James C I the history books. Yeah The history boys I didnid't never watched this movie because I was just sort of like I respect it, but it's not my kind of movie. But you've slowly over the years, like anyone, you've noticed like huh, That movie gets talked about a lot.. It's got kind of a cult around it huh? Beyond c att this point it's sort of like revered or whatever. When we become friends and you tell me this is one of your favorite movies. I'm like, that makes perfect sense. Best movie twenty perfectly aligns with everything I know about you at that point and helps me understand you further Six or seven years ago, Derek, who I hadd seen it with him and we walked out the same reaction was like, have you ever seen Master and Commander And I was, yeah, we saw together. We were both bored And he's like, I've seen it like twenty times now Clearly it just bounced off me at the time. I rediscovered it. I'm now obsessed with it. I watch it all the time I'm like, huh, I do need to reassess this movie. But also Peter Weir is pined to the board as an inevitable So I just have kind of held off re watchatching it And also the four K only came out recently. There wasn't a good version of it for a while, what have you. So I like setet it up for this moment And I I will say like simultaneously, I rewatched this and I was like, I totally get this I completely get this. It makes perfect sense to me. I understand the value of this movie It is innately not my kind of film But I was not disengaged from it in the way I was as a fourteen It's the best movie' ever made and Or sorry, mr. Sims. that's that's how you do it He missed her. Yeah, exactly Um Had you seen this film? U yes. Okaykay Be of I know you enthusiasm. Okay. So you didn't see it at the time. I didn't see it at the time, but I probably been two or three years ago. L I threw it on Yes And I gotta tell you Big old smile on me. Yes. looved it It is so comforting. It's Really one of the most likable movies It is incredibly liable For a movie in which like a twelve year old's arm is amputated, various people die, there's war, there's no women. like and I love women. Yeah. And this is a womanless movie. I was gonna say that consonsciously, you know, like that's the thing I saw the Wikipedia noting that people vague complained about at the time only because there are characters in the books. There are women. I mean, like yes. I mean, they're not on the boats usually, but like there's female characters there's they have lives at home because the whole thing is you go away and then you come back It was the naval life of like Someone has to wait for your ass, like if you like got engaged to them and and you're like, anyway, I gotta go. You got Laura Lenney on the phone. They don't have phones. Oh don't have phones. They don't have the telephone They don't even have the mail. Wait, Ben, you're pking this up. Well, You handed this piece of paper folded and said donon't look at it yet. I'm not looking Ben I gotta say, this is unrelated. This chair is so squeaky now. I need my new chair, I think. I know we gotta need squeaky ass chair. What I Wiifi network name. Yeah this movie Haught me. Bad down the hatches means. Okay. It literally means there's a lot of hammer the hatches the water kind raining down. Mat them down. This my whole life going through just not even really recognizing what that meant we're gonna to talk about be in daily borders. We're gonna talk about shall we beat borders? T colors're gonna talk about giving leeway All these phrases come from MS We sh be two quarters. We should have started this episode by beating to quarters. D Sims, see this immediately and love it. I saw it at the Odeian Leicester Square with Howard Amos. shhout out Howard, Wherever you are, probably Scotland, where you live My friend We were both seventeen years old. It was u I think it must have been, well It wasn't winter break yet. I think it came out in Britain at the same time, but now I want to find out. seeeeing this happen it wasn't always must have been a very specific Well, but like fucking insane andpiring. Rember I was seventeen years old. So I am not yet dad, R right? And I am not surrounded by Oh, sure sure. It was a big deal. Yeah. No, it came out same week in Britain. Yeah. It it's mid November. It's november seventeenth or whatever is or four whatever. that's sort of like mid November, we'll and of course we'll the box. This is not like a Westerosi fantasy world No. al the way one to was to American audience. Sure. Yes. No, no, it's it's you're right. It's a much shorter thing to watchk. And like we all had watched Hornblower on TV in the nineties. Right. like and of courseornblower You'd love it. Hornblower is a series of TV movies based on books, very popular books. George Lucas is a big fan of hornblower. Don't you watch the hornblowers? oncence a year? No, it's more like once every sort of five six months with Erl Marine. Yeah. David and Elisa, David Erlich and his wife And of course David Barty Salinas who fucking. He might be the biggest fan of the world very unurprised. But this is about a jazzman It's about it the line. There were very strange jobs It's about a young the hornblower. It's about a young Navy lieutenant a liieutenant called Horatio Hornblower who you know, the first one he's like low on the totem pole, but he rises over the series And it happened because Elisa David Erlk's wife texted me like I wantan to watch like a master and commommander thing but not mastering commander because master commander. Okay. And I was like, u, there's not much, but horn blower. Yeah. And she was like, what's that? And I was like, it's this British TV thing. Yeah. And she was like, it's not streaming. And I was like, all right, well, I'm buying the fucking box it. I have it. Yeah bought it now. And we're watching them. So we all watch that thing. we blow the horn, we say Does this is this really like the only modern version of this executed at this level of quality in movies. And when I say modern, I say like anything post nineteen fifty gotta be some other like You know, there's other stuff, isn't there? There'ailing movies failing ships at sea doing Emmon play with each other. L here's the thing I felt G feisty with the twenty five pounders. Past the opening title cards the moment this movie started. I had a very clear thought Oh yeah, this is the only movie that gets right what it's like to have been on a ship in this time period.. So And then I step back and I go can know that I have no lived experience. I mean, I'm looking at like list of Napoleon. It's like there's not much. There was more back in the day backack in the sort of forty fifty six Yeah. But I think most of the Napoleonic stuff back then it's more the land. Like there's that movie, Waterloo that's about, you know, You should. Do you know what I'm talking about, though? That's insince charge of seeing something in a movie that you have no firsthand experience of And the Kreeakksing you're just like, ye, I feel like they got this right. This feels accurate to something I don't know shit about in a way, like sunshine I always point to. That movie for me versus other sci fi movies. I'm like, This is what it feels like to live in a spaceship for a couple of years And I just I have no knowledge I can't speak to that withith any authority But I feel the same way about this. I think that One of the things I mean, look, I did not live during the Napoleonic War era U I saw this movie for the first time after I had spent a week U with my family I believe in a ninety foot uh, wooden two masted schooner. sailing schooner on a course that I took on Scooter navigation Specifically. Yeah, because you know, it's something that comes up a lot. You'd be surprised at how often you want to know how to sail a schooner of the wooden Bat schoolchool in Brooklyn, Maine offered this week on the Merry Day. And so I hadd spent time on a wooden boat and learning the pinrail and the sales and all this stuff. And when we got back, I was like I want more of that. What you This would have been recently. I didn't see this movie when it came out. Wow. This would have been twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen. Okay When I was like, you know, I never saw a master in command. You're in a boat head space, right and you're like, what are the boat movies and theres only so many. So at that time, I am a dad at that time son was not yet an adult but was living with us. He had been on the boat. I was like, let's watch some boat shit es your son care about this boat stuff? Well it might wrong I mean, I think he thinks of it relatively fondly, but he didn't get into it necessarily. Am I wrong in remembering that your son went to a boat school? You know, look, I've been coy about this town Butll I've already mentioned it twice. Yes Brooklyn, Maine. Yes.re you're lohe to mention it. And there are well, I mean, it's just, you know,'s's kind of a long running joke. Yes EBbe White had lived there and he didn't reveal where he lived. I' always say I live somewhere on the coast of the United States between New Brunswick, Canada and Cuba. And vacation land is only available on hardcover, right , it's available now on per. Oh,'s.,'s helpful. I think I'm gonna start talking about my experiencing the movie again. I feel like we got off the rails No. I'm driving towards a specific point. I just remember when I first met your son. that he was very interested in boating. Yeah, they they built so there's there's a lot of wooden boat building in that community. Yes. And and there was four local kids and summer kids They all built a wooden skiff. This is a family interest that runs deep. I understand. But I was it was kind of for it Okay. David Yeah. so I saw it with Howard. I thought it was great. I then saw it on a date It was a disastrous dayate movie is quite long That long really' two hours, twenty minutes and is about What it's about, boys on a boat And did not, it did not my date was not excited by a master and commander B Um d seventeen, I mean, you know, Sul. What What did you deem skippable enough for a quick makeout sash? Oh o, during the movie? No, No, o. Okaykay. okay. after, I think Beuse I was confused by the idea that you would look away from the mo even a second N not during the movie. Yeah. that didn'tound like. You actually shoot her away. I'm like, Yeahah the quarter. Yeah. she's I'm leaning in. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, my dear I must watch. I really like this movie, but when I was like seventeen, my favorite movies of that year. wereere elephant, which was a big movie for me then. That was a big one for me as well. elephant. Yeah. Trying to think like David Gordon Greenens's all the real girs L that was a big movie for David. Yeah. Obviously, I enjoyed the Lord of the Rings, his epic conlusion and X Men two andes whatever' the way up there. twenty eight days later, Kill Bill, volume one, right? You know these were the big movies where I was at the time Foolishly disappointed by the Matrix sequels and bulk I would right, you know, I would mature You'd get that. Right likeight. But Master Karon was a movie I like really liked. And I you know, my dad liked it obviously, as a big fan of the books. he enjoyed it. I bought it on a DVD right away. But it was not an immediate. this is one of my favorite movies ever. No. And then it just, I think as it was for a lot of people, I just kept going back to it And they kept making movies that weren't like it, whichich they have consistently done to this day. Hollywood just keeps making zero movies in which Paul Betany in a housecoat, angrily yells at the captain of his ship that he can't go on the Galapagos Islands to look at Cormorants because the ship has to go like fight, you know the friend. This is an interesting point. Is this movie is rising cult also a byproduct of kind of like the longer time goes on, it is one stop shopping. This is the only place you can go to this. Pen performance in this film is the greatest? I think he's a greatreatest performance ever captured by a camer You is the greatest film performance. You the best everything The seriousness of this man, right? Like from moment one, like just like the gravitas, just steadiness, right? You know, like Aubrey's got more bluster and Maturan's like very calm And then like just for an hour into the movie for him to just show up in that coat, with the hat. ready to go, ready with his wooden cages to capture some iguanas And finally, finally admit to, you know, like, you know, show some vulnerability with When Aubrey's like, we gota fucking going and he's like, you promised me I could look at her It I need to look at the birds right now. It may not surprise you to hear that Paul Betneany's character is the one thing I remember connecting with. Of course seeing it as a fourteen. I mean, he actually got were buuzz. Like I mean, he was in the. I was just like, I get this guy. This is the closest analogue to what I would feel like in this experience I loved him. I was like all in Betneany at the time. Yeah, exactly. He was such an exciting young actress So fucking good and beautiful mind. I feel like with great distance, he's arguably the best performance in that movie You know what? I That's a movie I've not seen twenty five A little bit terrified to rewatch. But I remember my mom and I walking out being like, who the fuck is that R. He was he was he was brand new very excited. He'd obviously been a Kight's tale that year too you know And gangster number one was a couple years before that. But when this seeing this, I was like, well this clearly feels like an anointment moment where They're going to give him a kind of star is born Jud L talent to Mr. Ripley. best supporting actor Nom. you've proven yourself and now you're a leading man. and instead his career like kind of immmediately gets way late after this. Well at that time write for men's Journal magazine, which is the very famous National magazine covering the trend of men keepeping journals. Yep, of course. And I pitched a profile of Baul Beton having not seen the movie. just liking but you're like this character is going to pop. I'm like, Yeahah. And they said, no, not that nerd Can I tell you that insan thing to say about the man who is married to Jennifer Connolly? Although he wasn't yet, right? They were together. They may have been together. 'ause they met on Beautiful Minds? Yeah. Even though he's a figmment of someone's imagination in that movie. so how could they imag Yeah They also don't have any scenes together they did because he's a figurered of his. Yeah. He has no scenes with anyone for Rossso Cr. I believe the story is that they like had a flirtation and maybe a hookup during the filming a Beautiful Mind. Oh, wow then u the movie is obviously done and nine hundred and eleven happens. And as he tells the story, When he sees the news on TV, he's like, all I want to do is call Jennifer C. Right That is on his Wikipedia. He called her and was like, shouldhould we fucking give this a go? and they were married like six months later. Right? Have been married ever since? Yeah U Paul Betany, the Oscar nominees that year for sporting actor were Tim Robins for Mr. Griver, who wins? Well in my opinion, not a very good bad win. Yes, kind of a bad win Good actor. gotot a good performancelin. Alec Baldwin in the cooler was the Alec Baldwin moment. Yes But in retrospect, you're just like, that movie doesn't exist. It is so weird, that's his only Oscar novel. It's not a bad movie, but it doesn't really. I remember him being good. He's really good. But it also was it was just the moment embring the character actor thing. Everyone liked him being the bear Benicio in twenty one grams, he's amazing in that. What I have often contended if he hadnt won for traffic he would have won this year. An amazing performance's a dog shit movie, but he's phenomenal in that. Not a very well remembered movie. Jiamon Honu in America, a performance I really like aom I kind of love, same But another one that you're kind of like, huh, like another performance nobody really talks about Kind of a nomination morning surprise. I forgget. of bumped out, but he was not as much in the product getting to. Betany And then Ken Lonabe in last samurai, which is a movie I don't love, but a performance I adore. Yeah. and that was kind of a nice That was a nice Yeah The u Globes had right. So like Peter Sararss Garden Shattered gllass who cleaned out the other guys Yeah amazing performance. Yeah. Godnub Rude. Albert Finney and Big Fish got the Gobe and Baona seememingly an obvious nom there. Real lifetime ch. And then the Oscars just like spperurned big fish generally. They were just kind of like enough for us BAFA nominees were at Robins That's the only one it shares with the Oscars. He was inevitable that season. There was tension. You know, It also felt like he's had a really big eighties and nineties and here's the annointment moment. And from the moment he gets that Oscar his careers is basically They were like never employ this man again. Tim Robins Mstick River Ian McCellll return to the King I think that's That's a bit of a softball nom, but whatever. And the thing I find very funny is that Ian McKellen often in interviews will say, I believe I'm the only actor to be nominated twice for playing the same character, which is both wrong in that other people have done it and he didn't get the Oscar nomination thinkinks he did because of the b because of the bath. He'll site it all the time. Gandalph the White and Gandalol the Greay are kind of different characters In a way true. Yes. onene of them doesn't even remember his own name. Yeah Ian Mcon, Albert Finney. Yeah. Big fish. Yeah. Bill Nae who won for love actually. Yeah, whichich is a little bit of a moment. I think the Brits getting a little too huffy on their own paint. They do this. I mean, he's so fun in that movie and I don't like that movie, but obviously. And it was the Nayy moment. We were all like This is also like my beloved like Denm Elegot winning best supportpporting actor for trading places Hbet was nominated. Okay, Baptist. It was the one he He did get the num. But no yeah, after this, he did Wimbledon and it killed his career It's insane. It's kind of wild. Like when he gets when he gets the Ironman job. Yeah, you know, to be the voice of Jarvis. Yeah. It's kind of a like you don't have any fucking other shit going on, do you buddy Be it's Favrero in Wimbbleton. They were friends. Yeah. That's rightight. I think Favrero's in Wimbleon's an act. for you I mean like, obviously he's like the villain ina Vinci code Like he was working. This is what I was going to say. DaVinci in another universe, you're like, if this movie isn't repellent dog shit Is this an opportunity for like a fucking Joh Malkovicin in the line of fire moment And instead, it feels like there's six years where he's either just doing true paycheck shit. like 's the villain in firewall. Y. O There's the he And carts another one a guy in young Victoria. orr it's stuff like Legion where it's like he is on the poster, but that's like a really odd Jis. fifteen million dollars screen Gems movie wasn't supposed to be the guy. I like both of those movies. very odd and stylish. I like both of those. But it was like, okay, so this guy's neither seen as a serious actor nor a major movie star And then he just has a run of being like Johnny D's journal wouldn't profile him. Yes Polly was like, yeah, I guess we gotta take the message. this' so strange. breakthrough. And then he has three consecutive Johnny Depps best friendriend performances. Mordecai in transcendence. I'm not sure the other. And also why am I blinking on the other one here There is a third one. I believe you. It's the tourist. right he's in the tourist Maybe he's a villain in the tourist. He's good in margin call But that's a small really good But that would be the thing. He'd pop up as like seventh build in a movie. I mean like a good dramaticen. You'd be like, whyy is no one fucking using this? He says when he got to be Vision that he really was like His career was his agent was kind of like, it's just not happening for you anym. He directed a film starring, his wife Jennifer Connlly, Nice work if you can get it, and Anthony Mackkeie called Shelter about a homeless romance And he was like, I needed to tell this story and I turned down a lot of jobs and I focused on this for like three or four years, and it went to festivals and everyone was like, why the fuck did you make this? And then he tells the story of his reps being like, we're dropping you Like you're just you fucked it up, man. And he's like literally the same day Favreau called me and was like we do Wa didn't call him Is the first one He's in Ironman, but like but he's the voice. But like but Selter came out in twenty four. you're right. Wheden's then like, hey, by the way, like I have this fun idea of like vision. You're the voice of Jarvis and willll make you vision. And he's like That sounds good. Is that good? And we did like Yeah, like that's like. Yeah. I this is purely speculative, but He's been married to Jennifer Connolly for A long time firstirst person he thought of when the Twin Towers came down. Y They seem to have a real marriage. He said he's like had he had a crush on her from like Labyrinth, which I get line. I thought he was the only one. But like I hear that story and I'm like, maybe I should have called Jennifer Con nine hundred eleven. Hey can I holler hit you, Jennifer? I'm thirteen years old I'm not I'm not saying that the vicissitudes of Hollywood were not unkind to him, etceta, etceter.. Obviously men's journal really fucking blackballed him. but Sometimes I feel like when someone is in a good marriage. Yeah, that maybe his priorities are different. Although she also has had an odd career. Say it again. Yeah. she's had an odd. I know. And maybe that's because they love each other and love spending time with each other and they' And and they're not ching your veins in the way that a single hungrier person would like. I have no idea. I'm not And they're dads and moms too, right? Connlly Yes Yes. Connlly obviously wins the Oscar for the movie they did together at the very beginning of their relationship And then it feels like she has continued to be for the last twenty five years, one of these people where I'm just like, why is everyone fucking taking her for granted? E four or five years like pop up again in a way And everyone's like, right, Jenner Conolly still looks great, is always good. And then she goes back to being ignored for another four or five years. But is she being ignored? Is she making a choice to do I don't know. I don't know like fuck of her life. F seasons of snow here. choosing to not work, but it just feels like the stuff isn't sticky. and then she'll be in like fucking topop gun maverick which she's great. She's luminous. Yes. And she's got incredible chemistry at Tom Cruise in that Chemistry I actually think it is the most successfully a woman has conveyed. She's so good. Yes. She's not great actress. Yeah. a little uncomfortable but she's so good. I think that movie has the exact right strategy and how to make you buy their relationship and what they show you and the things they're just like, we're not even gonna attempt to show you this. I'm going to open the dosate and then we're gonna to talk about drop. Yes, Pop open that All right, in two thousand, here's a curious note from a from this is not related to master and commommander, but in two thousand, Peter Weir, Wolfgang Peterson, Rob Reiner Jonathan Demmy, the great bad Brad Silverling Director of your favorite Casper participate in a creative bake offff to pitch themselves as the director of Harry Potter. Okay. They were all part of, I assume Warner Brrosers was essentially like call a bunch of kind of esteemedish directors who've done big production. Can you run that list again quickly Wolfing Peterson. So like obviously, you know, he's a big director. H done a lot Warner Bothers. Yeah. Rob Reiner. Yeah. I mean at that point, he's starting to lose his luster, but he' still he's madeaking huge movies Demy. Yeah Demi's kind of a Demiy's of choice Yeah I mean, that would have been very interesting. This is like who post beloved. Right. But he's still fucking downh of the Npie like, you know, and Brad Sibberling who, you know is he's kind of like a They got Chris Columbus Right. And it's like Chris Columbus is more proven than him really. Right. Cum more emotional sberlings a little more technical. But it's alsoost like Columbus has just made two the biggest movies ever with like kids in them. I mean, also the other famous story is that like JK Rowling said my first choice is Terry Gilliam. and Warner Brothers said that's not a conversation. Yeah Warner Broth like, o. E. Okay I mean, like there was like the rumor thatilberg sniffed and only do it with Kaley Joel. Right. And Rowling was like, I'm not doing like American Harry Potter. I'm not like, you know, she knew that he would box her out. Like he's more power. She also was like, I'd want to make some changes. and Warner Brothers was like, your job is to adapt the books Harry Potter in a way that satisfies so whole audience. MA Shamalan supposedly was also like given a phone call, I've heard that, you know, and, you know, whatever. that say they' like a very serious We would have been possibly interesting We'. Yeah Instead though Weir does not win this bakeoff obviously. He gets attached to an adaptation of Master and Commander for twentieth century Fox Tom Rothman Back when he was president of production at Samuel Goldman Company in the nineties read an Aubrey Maturn book and loved it and asked Samuel Goldwin, acquire the film right to please. So that's in nineteen ninety three The rights then cycle between Goldwin and Touchstone, which is, of course a Disney subsidiary. Yes. Jo movie has three studios attached to it. It has Mar Max, Fox, and Universal. does. Yeah. Jon McTieran at one point was attached to direct an adaptation for Touchstone. makes perfectense. Absolutely. Yeah At one point, Goldwin asked we to do it in sometime in the nineties and he says he turned it down because they wanted to do the first book in the series, which is like more of a young Aubrey, like you Aubrey has just gotten his first command By ninety eight, Goldwin has the rights again And he has a new home at twentieth century fox. I sorry, Rothman has Rs again and Rothman's a twentih century fox And then Fox he becomes president and CEO in two thousand And it is his passion project It is like uh, you know, his like, as you're saying, Griffin, like this is the one I'm going to be remembered for. And I'm going to ignore the usual studio noty kind of like, well, you know, kind of, you know, anyway. This is the one for him. Weir is always his top choice. Yeah He's been his top joint since the mid nineties and since the mid nineties, he's only like he's only gotten more obsessed with the books. He's now read you know, the entire opus. Weird has you're saying No O Rothm. Rothman Yeah. Yeah. Patrick O'Brienan dies at the age of eighty five, january two thousand. Okay We far as he knew the two towers stood forever He's luck inough. he's luck We're Uh stillill hesitant to sign on I mean, it just seems like Rothman was basically like Well, here's here's here's the story They'd have a meeting And Rothman says, what I really think you should do, And then he pulls out a captain's sword and hands it to him and says is take command of the HMS surprise. And Peter Weir is like, can I keep the sword? And they were like, ye, you can have the sword. know go ahead. You also have to imagine that Rothman's basically saying to him like I'm gonna give you full support to make the best version of this movie You're not going to deal with dumb fucking notes. This is exactly what Weir says. Yeah. He says, you could not have made this without a studio executive at the top of the tree who loves the material. Like you you need Rothman at the top every time someone's like, Hey Peter weird just bought a million more gallons of water. Roban's like approved S even another million. The guy the guy with the stamp, the rubber stamp needs to be someone who understands exactly what these books are and has no temptation to be like Could we add a romantic subplot? Could we do this? Could we do that bullshit Yeah There's a talking parrot. Yeah. that would be fun. That was my main note at the time. Yeah. Ben the name of the boat is the HMS surprise S now And if you want to know, if you want to know how to drop anchor, tell you sometim I would. Okay. What pin in it. So Weir is still like, I don't want to do the first book, which is still mostly been every attempt to adapt it has been working. He's like, I want it to be on the friendship of Aubrey Maturen I wanted to be on their longer voyage You know, I like if we're doing essentially an origin story, we won't really have that. His favorite inspiration is in nineteeny four is the Far side of the worldld the tenth book where they get the subtitle, but it is not a strict adaptation They have some of the first book in there, they have some original stuff John Colly, a Scottish born physician and professor whose medical travels has taken him across the world before he settled in Australia is brought in. he's like a novelist and screenwriter as well brought into help. I don't really know John Coley Uh what are his other credits Happy feet Really Yes hereow He wrote happppy feld Hay. I mean, one of them several right Yeahah and happy fe along with the lady from the Pom. But this is his first, this is essentially his first movie apart from a movie called Paper Mask whichich was based on a book he wrote. Okay? And Th three episodes of Star Copps on BBC two in nineteen eighty seven. What is Star Copps? Do you have any familiar with Star Copps? of cool. It's a British sci fi something from the nineties. I can't say I know this one. I was a bugs guy. If anyone watch bugs It was another BBC like kind of sci fi cop show. It was really cool. It was set in like the near future because they would shit Stark Copps is set in a time when space travels become common. Yeah Mkind is in the process of exploiting colonizing the solar system. They need cops. ex place twenty twenty two. they need cops? Yeah, I gotta says on hips. I'm I'm gonna ye, a scab. All space cops are b. Yeah U love that. So the break is for them. The breakthrough is, according to Koali, seeings the film as a dialogue about what it is to be a man We're really writing about a family in which Jack is the dad Stephven is the mom, Blakeney, Max Perkis is the kid The rest of the crew are the teenagers, right You know, like that's how they think about it. And like I think the Max Perkis character is so vital the boy who loses his arm. Yeah ye. Yeah. because I mean, because it's a really good performance That kid's great. He ended up on Rome. I don't know what happened to him after that. Yeah, but you know, he was sort of around. You know what? In twenty sixteen, he was appointed head of acquisitions and distribution at Embankment film So so it sounds cool So the Brit fil industry. Yeah It's great. Yeah. O It just rocks that you're like this is this tender relationship, but it's also a military relationship Aubrey in return have like separate relationships to him. you know, like Aubrey has the, you know, naval and talking about Nelson and stuff, but then he likes all the bugs and the stuff he does with Maturan. And then at the end, Aubrey's like, you're in charge of the ship and then he is. And then he's like, we need to fucking storm them and he's got a gun and he's got one hand and he's shooting F Cool. When he rocks when he walks through the hole in the other sh. He's just like the gu one hand. He's not and no hand in the other hand. Crazy greatest. Just do a showout him. O course I could. I could do a show about anywone Killick is my favorite. My favorite is when he says, my favorite moment in mastering Commander. Yeah is when he says an extra grog of you know an extra ration of run for the two guys Kill like saving the Rum for Saluton dayays.' like he's like, we'll drink wine at all, we'll drink wine on saluton dayay and And you're like what the fuck is saluting day And they never it's like you don't have to know. The capaptain steward. He's the only guy who talks back to like apart fromter and does it like in a very formal way. McKillick is the one guy who's like saving I was whichich is it will be done when it's done He's al starting s which it is Souse Hogs face, sir. I love it when he says Souse Hog's face and Aubrey is like Yeah, That's my favorite. He loves Souse Hogs face My mom,other love You hear Hog face and you're like, ah fuck it's Hog face we come. When I was a kid in was like, bring it on. When my parents said we're like what are we having ton? Hogs face I would be like Sound you sound' another face. It sounds disgusting, but what it is is Boil a hog's head. a hat. You take off all the meat And then put it into a mold And all the gelatin that's come out of the skull bones turns it into a tarine and you slice it. Yes, It's cold. You spread it like on toast. Yeah. And my mom would eat it by the slice. I personally, I love a pate. I don't I don't like I never done It doesn't sound like the greatest thing in the world. I there was a lot of jellying Yeah of things. When it was Monday at the school cafeteria and they served just up Hogshe headad I was excited. But then later in the week when you're like, oh, it's like Hog'shead loaf it'sog. Right? But they're using every part of it they're doing Hogsad tacos. you're like, I'm tired of it by Friday Got any big summer plans? If you're traveling, you got late nights, packed weekends, zero structure, any of those AG one in your routine helps you stay Consistent. That's a loaded word right there. consonsistent.. When everything else gets and here's another loaded word unpredictable. Oh, I don't want that. and I know you don't either. Look, it's a daily health with a multival. Pree N pro biotics. Yp, suuper foods and antioxidants. all stir lineup. One scoop, eight ounces of water. You just shake it. There you go. That's it. You drink it. It takes thirty seconds. I know you drink it every single day. What's your favorite flavor right now? Right now I'm actually really big into berry. I've been cycling through them and I I've really been enjoying this berry phase. I will say this as well David You said wherever you are, I'm about to go away for six weeks and you better believe I just ordered a whole box of travel packs so that I don't have to travel unarmed. I had no doubt So Visit drink AG one. com slash check to get your free. morning person hat and free AG one flavor sampler. for that hat. In your welcome kit with your first AG one subscription. That's an eighty two dollars value 's drrink. That's drink AG one dot com slash. When I wear that hat, it's gonna to be so ironic. I don't like the mornings. No. But I love gey onene. Yes This episode is brought to you by Starbucks. That is fire. Whoa, that's good. This might be the drink of the summer. Okay, I like this one too. I'm not with you, okay? Try it for yourself. Starbucks refreshers concentrates are coming home. Find them in the coffee aisle and make it yours The beauty of Coie says, the beauty of the books is U the richness of the technical detail, the correctness of the dialogue You know, the plots are good, but the incidents, the little stuff, That's why people love these books. likeike they love the detail And it's perfect for us because we can just you know, achieve all this iverse similitude just by using the books. Like it's all in there already. You don't need to do Aill He did all the research for you The whole point of those books is they are very accurate. L they are really striving for like this is life And but here is particularly good at capturing the minutia Of Ws of communities he always is. So, you know, it's a it's a perfect match Take them to your story to a satisfactory screenplay U And then he stops, right? That's my that's my work. is a satisfactory because that Russell Crow comes aboard and he wanted to beef up their Maturan and Audubrey relationship a little bit more. So Akiva Goldsman, who, of course had just written Beautiful Mine I want to ask her does summ rewrites whichich is interesting because I think of A Keva Goldson, of course as a master of trash, but he's also been involved in things I like At this moment, he was hyper legit. This is true. Yeah. Weir says his ideal choice would have been Richard Burton. Unfortunately, he was very dead. Quite dead. Yeah. And also before he died had been a little bit of a handful in those last twenty to thirty years of his career. I would go as far as to say that at this point in time, Richard Burton was extremely dead, more dead than most and that the last twenty years in which he was alive were also kind of death like. Exactly. I don't think Richard Burton would have maybe had his C legs. you might say But anyway, he turns to Russell Crow who correctly The closest thing you're going to get to a Richard Burton type in two thousand. Yeah, is. right? A big burly fucking man who is a great actor and a movie star. Yes, but who like embodies like a kind of masculinity that guys don't. I was listening to the LexG podcast yesterday and loves the Lex G podcast. The greatest.'s the name of it? It's called the LexG podcast. Got it. The world's greatest commenter. has his own movie podcast and he was talking about he was doing kind of a new release roundup and doing this sort of like Why do I even see these movies anymore? Why do I still feel this compulsion go? This seems to be constant existence. I ready or not into opening weekend, whatever. And then he was saying like, I'm really trying to like watch more old movies and I'd love to make the podcast more about old movies. I feel like people won't listen, but I've been I've been watching Ben Hur because the four K just came out. and he was just kind of waxing about Ben Hur. and he was like, And fucking Tarlton Heston, L we don't have anyone who can do this today. Like no one acts like this anymore. No one can hold a movie like this and sort of know how to be larger than life, but also just steady at the center. And I was thinking, hearing this right before doing the rewatch. Crow's career has been weird two thousand one, right? You're like this guy is the top of the fucking world and always will be. He had three consecutive Oscar noms. He won the middle one, Gladiator was a massive blockbuster. Beautiful Mind was a massive blockbuster. And it was like, if this guy can do fucking big epics, and intimate dramas, then he's everything. This guys's like Mel Gibson and Gregory Peck and Trelton Hesant at the same time And then he has gone off in a thousand weird directions is the consistency of like This was a reasonable hit, although obviously did not make as much as they wanted relative to the budget And then you could basically say the same about Robin Hood and Noah. where like people went to see them Uh Yes, they did. And again, it's the dad thing we're talking about of just that audience never hit the Gadiator thing quite as big But you were like, this is the only guy I would argue for the last twenty five years who people buy doing this type of movie. And when they try to put someone else into this, even when it is a proven actor get fucking exxodus gos and kings with Christian baail is Moses And everyone's like notappoint. You know. And then like Russell Crow will hire a trainer and be like, I'm going to try to look like a person again for this one. And everyone's like, yeah, sure. yeah. He's the one guy who can pull this shit off in our modern era Crow and Weir, obviously are both from Australia, but they never work together. But obviously Crow is at this point, a gigantic movie star. He has made Gladiator when he gets signs on here. Beautiful Mind is about to come out He's committed to Cinderella Man, which is going at that point to be made by Lasa Helstrom R Howard eventually makes that. That is the movie that comes that's two thousand five. So it's his next movie after Master and Commander He wants to do mastering Commander and he says, C you wait while I do Cinderella Man? Like can you wait a year? And Weir says the ship sails with the tide waiting. So Crow decides to postpone Cinderella Man and instead boards the surprise and that's probably tough on him because like Cinderell and he's playing a boxer like he's Gotta have the physique and all that. And you probably would want to do that I mean, what How old is Crow? How old does Crow when he makes this movie? That's a great question. I'm gonna guess. thirty Are we going to realize that Crow is significantly younger than I am right now in this film U Yeah, Russell Kr is significantly younger than you are right now. He is thirty nine when this film comes out So Crow is basically just like, I could not stop thinking about it Like and he says, like, did I want to give up a chance to work with Peter Weir? I dreamed about working with Peter Weir my whole career. Like He immerses himself. He loves the books. he findinds that the later books turn off Aubrey into a bit of a buffoon, which she doesn't like But he you know, he loves the character generally. He loves the teacher student thing with the with the kids. He wanted to show the responsibility that Aubrey has having these kids on board because like, To be clear, the officer class, as I'm sure you know These are the young boys of like aristocracy. Yes, who like it's usually if you're like the fourth son Right? Like son one, you're going to inherit the land. Son two, you're the backup. Stick around Some three Maybe you marry next door neighbor who's inherit airline. Son four, we don't know what to do with you. He sounds like extra sons. Yeah. You send them to be midshipmen in the Royal Navy And if they learn to be officers. And if they will rise and all that, but you know, and they're so young. Exactly. Ben, the absolute madness of like a twelve year old outranking these like salty ass sea dogs Yeah And the and the wait the whole like microcosm of British class happening on this ship. Like there that there's no, you know, like the I the great subplot of where that that does start to get fucked with a little bit with the Jonah But generally but like those lines don't get crossed and like, The boys do get to sit to the front essentially and you know, order everyone around. And they get to wear those little hats and everyone's got to touch their hats And Blakney and Callamy Well, Blakey's got to be twelve or thirteen Thalamies maybe sixteen. Am is older. He's a midshipman. Yeah He's a real loser. He says he's thirty six or something. Yeah. He's just he's like, you know, his his his ridating mate are all sixteen, fifteen, fourteen, thirteen years old. He's just never He's never gotten to jump right to a higher command A number of historians hired to consult in the movie said that Crowe could actually use his Australian accent that that would basically be acceptable, considering like what British people talked like at the time and things like that doesn't becausecause the Australian accent is sort of a throwback to sometimes I think that's sort of the idea, right? Like it's like, you know, that's around when we're starting to fucking send British people out to Australia anyway. When did England stop putting shrimps on the barbie They call them prawns in England most They do in Australia too. Yeah. So Crowe decides that willll just feel unnatural. So he goes for this kind of British accent. you know, this like solid upper class, you know, you know That does feel like a fascinating version of even if it's accurate, ninety nine percent of the audience is going to go, oh, so Russell Crowe was too lazy to do a British accent. U I maybe you're not going to be able to fight the notion of like, is this guy cheating by using his real voice? I feel like he was he was pretty well regarded for his accents because like the LA confidence. the other performance is so good. I'm sure like he that's part of the juice for him.. You know, he's at this point a very like studious obsessive actor It was two thousand three, so not as many people were eating shit online. There weren't that many commenters gonna out up in there L was starting creating a narrative saying that he was too lazy or whatever. Sure. But it's still, I gotta say, I'll hate this phrase, but it would have taken me out of it. Yeah. I would have been wondering why he's talking You question it. They made the right call Weir is initially resistant to Betany because of the beautiful mind thing. Oh, sure. He's like, is that too obvious? Do we need like a fresh combo? He also thinks Betany is too tall. Like, he's like Maturn is supposed to be the physical opposite of Aubrey. like Betneany's pretty burly. I was looking at the Wikipedia and the sort of people complaining the book fans complaining at his casting at the time And the other thing that in the books he's a spy Yes And they remove that element? Well, they don't remove it because they nod to it. Okay. There's a moment early on when he says like they have their spies everywhere and obbious like becausecause yes, often Maturan goes on spy missions because it's the greatest. Sy Cellest Naturist. Surgeon? You don't got a tellally on Surgeon. Yeah ye. Auto sururgeon. But it sounds like in the books he is described as looking like Timothy Spul that he's a little gargoyle esque Obviously that was never gonna happen. He Flededger was considered, which makes a lot of sense. It. But then you got double Ozzie. Double Burly. Yeah, I think. Yeah Betany though because even though even though Betany's kind of a Bigger guy than you think of in the in the face. he's got got a he's got a fine a fine bone structured face. You're right. compomared to the big hunk of like Eastern hand. right Uh, the crow has for his head Everyone in the cast, you know does a bootcamp, right? They do a sort of like, you're going to learn how to sail. B is like, no, thank you and instead learns about like amputations and how to cut up fish Russell Crow says that everyone every actor should sew their character's name into their t shirts, according colored, according to rank you know, as as part of like a sort of You know, like, let's get the experience. Right. Betney refuses to do it. Betneany, he's consciously like, I want to feel apart from everyone. I want everyone to feel a little weirded out by me You know, because Matureurn is kind of an oddity on the boat Betany says like, nonetheless, like we all bonded, you know, not in a testosterone any way, but you're really looking after each other twenty actors. they shoot this mostly in Mexico or off the coast of like Bahja California and stuff like that. That's where the tank was. Right. Yeah. Max Perkis was found at Eaton College, Britain's fanciest school. He's a fancy lad. He's a fancy fancy lad. P playaying a fancy lad and he vibes fancy. I was curious Sims. He doesn't seem to still be working for embankment, but I was like, what films has he worked on and that announcement of him being hired to Malibus most wanted. Okay, so he's hired in twenty sixteen. Do you know what the first film embankment does under his watch is, David, which The wife. Oh What if there was one? One of our Greatest rununning bits He was the one who asked the question. What if we bankrolled the wife I mean, it's one of those movies where the product there's like fourteen production companies like that's a classic Tiff movie where You're like, I can arrive ten minutes late. the you know various logos will still be playing. That' be like Jim's films. That's a great way of putting it. Jim's films. if you're at the premiere, there's like ten people who's like, Yeah s, you know know whatever. I found the screen daily sccreen International news item about him getting hired at embankments And it has this whole thing, you know, we nabbed one of nurtured one of the brightest. We're convinced that he's an industry star of the future. And Bakeman co founder Hugo Grumbar and I vividly recall first meeting him and thinking, we've seen that guy before somewhere. Turns out he was amongst the lead actors and Peter Weirers master commandager. It's funny in what is otherwise a pretty stayed kind of press release to be like We were thinkingkingy. His face looked. I gotta say when you Google him, he's got the same face. He's got a baby face. Yeah, he still looks like he's got the same face. I mean, did he grow his arm back Yeah, he does. I mean, the cast got R ar. The cast is, I mean, James Darcy who I adore is a great like Brity Yeah by the way, I got I just got to say with regard to that. Ben I mentioned to you the what is called the HMS surprise It's a smaller boat of the ships of the line The victory, which was the flagship, Admiral Nelson's boat was about two hundred and fifty feet long Now the surprise, which was a real boat, twenty one hundred and twenty six feet long. Now, I don't know if that's the length of the hull ben Or if that includes the bow sprit, the big long thing in the front But it's much shorter boat. You see what I mean? Its beam is only thirty one feet It's got a draft of fourteen fe feet and a half inch. You are reading these off like a baby smallall nose smallall off the jump. Okay. hisis eyes are back into his head like I when a Kenley Henderson is been. What's surprising about the surprise for about boat that size? It's got not one, but two Jarvisices on it. It's a good point. Thank you for setting that up. I was going James Darcy the original Jarvis. It was a beautiful the wind up and Jarvis. like I can go Jarvis. I'm ready to go. And you know what He's really fun in that show. He is. You know what else James Darcy is fun in pretty much everything. And he's on my show amazing. But yes, he was he was original humuman Jarvist and Asian Carter, and then they brought him back in end game. He was recently in Oppenheimer as the guy who's not nice to Oppenheimer and Oppenheimer almost poisons his apple Right Which Oppenheimber really did. It is this funny thing of like I think of him as a guy who did not emerge until the twenty ten s. And I feel like you often have these discoveries watching movies where like the young supporting cast of recent drama school graduates are guys who are a decade away from finally breaking through. He's a classic They're all C coronation streets or neighbors L like Andrew Scott being in like band of brothers. you're like, isn't this way too early for Andrew Scott to be anything? But they do a lot of BBC costume dramas and stuff. And like Darcy, I feel like is also one of those guys who is always on the doctor Who list Oh like every time it came up like a ton of sense. He rocks. obviously, it's so nice to see Billy Boyd. I feel like this is Billy Boyd's like other big movie basically. Yeah. So I remember great Domic Moynahhan doing an interview saying that this was like the peak of his depression and I think his drinking Biddered Monahan. Monahhan. Right because he was like I have this like double act Boyd make these three movies together and then I couldn't book a gig for two years. So the movies are coming out, winning Oscars and making tons of money and Boyd's off on a fucking pirate ship Not a pirate ship HM ship of the les. Yes. But he was like, I was like, he's gonna keep booking and I'm And then basically right after this it flips and boys a little disappears. a little bit and then yeah, more to hands online. Yeah I mean, it's not like Boyd stops having credits, but I do feel like, you know, you know, really You don't really see. I got as much. I gott to say it was hard it was this was a thing that took me out of the movie. You kept see him Yeah steering that ship. What did Aarry doing? He did a terrific job. you know what I mean? I disagree with you. I think you should apologize Okay. All right. than you. I don't want to get blocked. The great Robert Pugh who's the, you know, the who's u Alen, you know, one of the other officers like There's just Lee Egle being is really good. likeike all the all the these are all British guys. Wh' the guy who jumps Oh, the Jonah Yes. that the guy's name is Lee Inngley. Yeah it's Lley. Oh, that'singleby. Okay, okay. Yeah. He's in u He's in one of the. Oh, yeah, he's in Azkaban. Hry Potter prisoner asking when, he's the guy who drives the night bus. Or is he the guy the driver or the conductor Yeah, ran on bike. whatever. Yeah they reck the driver is Peter Weer made his first four films or no four of his early films that with Russell Boyd, picnic wave Gpply dangerously. Then John Seeele has been his guy for a while, right I forget who shootsrans show Whootruman's show? That's a really good question. Thank you.uch a good question might be. Peter Boo. Interesting who shot life of Brian And a lot of Yeah. Oh that's the thing that kept striking you all watching this movie One of the guys on the boat looks so much like Eric Idol and look Eric Idol in makeup playing an older. ill it man. You're talking about. David Thrllfall. Okay. You know who he is? He is William H. Macy in the original British Sameless. Which back the British one is about is set in Manchester and is also about a loudish father who can't stop drinking. and his four billion children. Right. And every time like one of the kids ages up and it' like I want to be a movie star and leaves the show. they're like, we found another fucking kid. There's so many kids under couch cushions in this house But he's the yeah,'s He's a great person That makesense. He looks a lot like Eric Idol and He looks like Eric Idol. expecting him in Nudge nudge or something. And then at the end of this movie, when they come across the French, I was like, this really feels like the rude taunting Frenchman Yeah from I he's wearing he's weird bandages on his head. Yeah comedic. Yeah Um One day purely by accident, Russell Boyd is on an airplane going to Los Angeles. Okay And they sit side by side. Peter Weir and he, they hadn't worked together in many years. He wonders if we arranged it. He didn't realize it was going to happen And he start saying word on the plane. Yeah. No he starts saying like, I'm making this boat movie at four n hundred eleven So you coulding you could bring your naval cutlass on the plane at the time. It's master and Commander. He starts explaining it's, you know, scene by scene and Boyd's like, that sounds great. And he's like Dner tomrow I'll drop you into the script and then like You know, Boyd comes back on board. Is the first time they worked together and of course Rusll Boyd won Has there been an estrangement? I don't think so. It's just like he started using John Seal who was The assistant on some of the earlier stuff and then the, you know, went to Hlly Russell Boyd takes good pictures. Rus I'm looking at Russell Boyd's nineties and it's like White Man can't Jump, Operation Dumbo Drop, Tin cup, liar liar, doctor Dooittle. None of those movies are poorly shot. No, But I could see that guy being like, I want a fucking challenge. N known for their visual beautiness. No. No and then probably this stuff to see if you were to re watchatch. And the early weir films were challenging productions that totally probably actimates a guy like this. Exactly. That's like you hear about picking and hanging Rck and stuff of him like figuring out how to do stuff with no money, right? Yeah Okay. Well, I just watched that last night in advance of this and it was like one of the most visually interesting movies I've ever seen. It's so gorgeous. And then made it living Dangerously is one of the most completely different, but so spectacularly shock. The air, you know, you know, any movie that can make the air feel dense Yeah. Peter originally wants to do a water world thing He wants to like whole He's also one of one of history's wetdest directors. Pete Ware. He is true. Yeah how. I mean, last way give us the last way a show U ye. they ultimately ra the rain in the green car department True. Dead Pot soety's set entirely under water Kellie MGill is taking a bath. Yeah, That's Y. That's tr. I mean she's, you know, I've got to take a bath. They They ended up runidning around all day ten days on the actual seas. Well, here we go. So I'm going like he wants to shoot entirely on the water and they're like, lookook, that's W water worldorld. We need a floating ship trailing with you. If you're going do a reverse shot Everyone's gotta wait while the ship like moves right? you know, L it's like the entire nry learard lesson on that move. Like everyone took notes from that And so we' like fine maybe we should build a set, you know, in a tank and like I wonder who would know anything about that James This is the thing the other kind of miracle of this movie is just being close enough to Titanic James Cameron had done the legw build out the system to be able to basically shoot this on a gimbal in a tank. Ridley of a proper size. Scott had made both four fourteen ninety two and White S squall, I think, in a tank in Gibraltar. But that tank was in disrepair. L only a few years between like Titanicitequ, But like it's enough Yeah, suucked up. Then they're like, arere we going to have to build a tank And weir' like, I don't want to build a tank. And then James Cameron's like, We Mexico. Yeah. I have aank. Tanic tank. I have a tank. It has a deep channel where they could put the set on a big gimbal so you can like move the boat around, it has shallow water so you could put people waste deep if you need to. In Titanic, when the ship sinks snows first, that was on a gimbal. That's a spoiler.. So they had to fuck with things because of the way that Mexican tank was built for Titanic. But to your point, David, these things need a lot of maintenance and studios are not making like seven boat pictures a year. Maybe they should. Maybe just to keep these tanks usable, they should just make a boat picture every year. Iess there's perfect storm and that crazy tank stuff Yeah that was a lot of CGI waves. I remember when that came out. They're great waves, but I you know, like I remember talking to a visual effects guy before that came out saying waves are the thing When we can do waves, that would be the most amazing thing. And then they cracked it. And then they cracked it and that's all I could seeooting shooting inside the ship Yeah, I was just gonna to say, okay, sorry, go ahead. but I just think it's an interesting hypothetical to entertain the order flipped and Russell Crow did beautiful or did a citorilla man first, they probably would not have had a workable tank Possibly might' have gotten all difference. Who knows? You know? Yeah. I don't But I will tell you that didn sc of algae on the top. They didn't want to remove ceilings and walls. Okay wanted to use these cramp sets to their advantage. Like let's actually have it be like let's just shoot inside the ship bought a ship for one point five million dollars They moved it out of out of Bridgeport where it had been a tourist attraction It had been designed to fight in the seeven years War. It was in a few existing vessels that they could use. Then they make it over, new engines, siles, gging, decks Then they build a full size replica in the tank So like they have the real ship on the water, they have the replica in the tank. The real ship I understand to be the Rose. that show That's the Rose. Yeah. one point five million dollars. Do you have one point five million dollars? No, I don't, but you know, I just learn I just learned that the the Merry day that two masted wooden sailing schcooner that I trained on. as a midshipman is up for his sc sale for five hundred fifty thousand dollars thenen it's like, you got to park it It's like, you don't buy a boat and then you're like, great, I have a boat. There may be some costs associated with maintaining an old wooden boat. I mean, I was gonna say like if you bought like a fucking plastic speedboat, even that, it's like, you gota fucking put it somewhere. comment. But I don't have a plastic speedboat either but But yeah, the good news is the gas is cheap because it doesn't have it Sure you got something the only guas you need isar gas. I think this movie was a little bit hard to make Yeah. What? I just want to follow up quickly and you saying that if John had one point five million dollars in two thousand three money, he could own the Rose Do you know where the rose is today purchased in two thousand seven by the Maritime Museum of San Diego and officially reregistered as the HMS surprise. So it exists permanently as surprise. Oh you can o fuck, I gotta get to San Diego dude. my man I think that Patrick O'Brien, I had read somewhere, had been on the roose And he said This is essentially the same ship as the surprise. both historically and in his novels because it was a real ship that he sort of adopted to put into the novels And they immediately, he said, the only thing different is is a coat of paint It doesn They immediately repainted it as to look like the surprise. Back then. It does say on the Wikipedia, by twenty twenty four, the ship was in a worn condition with deteriorating paint and timbers. Well we. Yeah. alsoso they cast the ship in parts Caribbean four Probably's like some fucked up boat the HMS Providence. But otherwise he's at the museum. Film is se hundred percent has seven hundred plus effect shop, but Peter Weir did not want the film to look like the perfect storm. He wanted to use miniatures and stuff mostly for the, you know, storms and all that. Weda built a bigature, right? Like a giant miniature ship, I believe. I saw the Weda That sounds awesome. I can tell you, according to Nathan McGinness from Asylum, another VFX company There's not one piece of ocean in that storm sequence that isn't real. Wow, CGI water is obviously more controllable But I thought, you know, this is the more believable solution Um So while they're in pro production fear begins to circulate around the studios They realize the film has no villain Uh They realize the film has no romance. They could have read the script. Those are usually things that are in a movie It is fair to say that this film begins with them getting their shitrocked. then Lots of things happen, but there is no more real action. The storm in the middle is an action sequence, but there's no real battles and at the end there's an awesome battle. Yeah. But it is like It is defying, I would say, some some Hollywood, you know, kind of like plotdting sort of mechanics. It also feels like Tom Rothman maybe consously played goalie to prevent people from noticing this earlier. Right, right. And then like the movie's like deep in post production, the bills are getting sent and they're like, you're telling me there's no woman at all in the movie. He's like a Brazilian lady has an umbrella for five seconds. Yeah. and say hi to her. Yeah, he smiles. He's like, no, she smiled at me. That shot is in the trailer, which is hysterical. Yeah. they clearly were like putren Uh, There's going to be a colonial romance Film is gonna to come out in June ember this. We' wanting more time for effect, so they push it to November. That does mean that their lunch gets eaten by prridees to the Caribbean or whate know which comes out in July. although that was obviously another film that the studio was like, Why the fuck did we make this boat movie? We're about to be in so much trouble like I remember in the lead up to that movie, Pirates? Yes. was It was a curse of pirate movies. Well beyond just are they really fucking gonna make movies out of rides now? We had no idea how bad things were gonna get. Yeah That things would be based off were pretty these would be based off things that had ev sniffy about shit at the time But there was also this like Disney spending one hundred fifty million dollars on a pirate movie. Every pirate movie has flopped for the last forty years. And I remember trend pieces that were like, here's everyone who has tried and failed to make a pirate movie since the fifties, this is a losing effort So the fact that then pirates of the Caribbean, this is where I argue the movie got a little fucked by it. is that the fact that Pirates of the Caribbean overperformed so wildly then made people go like, oh, the boat curse is gone. Right. Yeah. I mean But a rising tide did not raise all exactly in this case. Right. I think this movie would have been viewed as more successful had Pirates of the Caribbean not raised the tide the stranger tide. Definitely. It makes ninety three domestic two eleven worldwide and it gets ten Oscar nominations. which I'm sure Fox was fairly happy about. It wins best director at the Baptist. Is that right? Is wed that so? Yeahep. that so He beat Jack. I'm not steeped in the financial business of Hollywood I would imagine that at that Bx office Given the amount of investment and the difficulty of making the movie, everyone except Tom Rothin felt like, fuck, we just escapeed by the skin of our teeth. I think a little bit. I think the Oscom we did it. Let's move along. I think the Osconoms made it it kind of like, well, look, we made a prestigious well received movie. so like, okay, but no, no one is like Yeah, you're right, He ws bestest director. I was surprised to see that. Yeah. This movie also had like an incredibly well selling DVD. No, that's the thing. L didn't as much the c grew over time. No no, no. There was that like immediate two disc kind of, this is one of those film school in a box DVD releases with every detail about the making of the movie that sold incredibly well. But I think yes, it was sort of like, Tom, we let you do this one time It did not make fuck you money where the argument is over. It would have taken fuck you money to continue making these movies. The know other part of it is right. Everyone had a diffic time making it. and Peter Weirer and Russell Crow notoriously were always kind of butting heads. I think I mean, there's nothing in the research about that, but I have heard occasionally that Russell Crowe has a bit of a strong personle And of course, right, Hawk, Ethan Hawk did say later in life, like I think working with Jim Carey and Russell Crow like really like broke Peter's back a little bit and Johny Debbs, the other on Chantaran, which doesn't happen. Right. But that he did two years development on Chantaran. Oh that' in He. Chant. Yes is I will say no, a couple people who have worked on this movie have off the record sent DMs to myself and other people involved at the podcast and have shared Russell Crow anecdotes that I'm not going to share here, but just a lot of like, have you heard that story about this fight they got on? It feels like they were just constantly locking horns. And this is a moment where Russell Crow feels unstoppable. This is his apex in terms of that power. Yeah. because like this movie does like beautiful Mind doing so well. Yeah. It's like, wow, can this guy do anything? Did he almost win two best actors in a? Almost did. Yeah. And then like master and Commander does like good, but okay because and like the poster his face. Yeah, you know then Cinderella M similarly was like definitely a hit, but not a m they wanted. He also never gets an Oscar nomination again And this year people were like, he's on the bubble. He might make it to the five on the strength of the movie. Didn't happen. Cinderellaan, it was like He maybe gets in there just because everyone loves Russell Crow and he got all these precursors doesn't get in never gets close to an Osar. I would say he never got even close again. I mean, his best performance after this is obviously nice guysy he's so incredible. But it's also the turning point where you look and it's like, Noah' twenty fourteen and twenty sixteen, he shows up in the nice guy looking like a grizzly bear And it's like this is two hos now That's who is. No says twenty fourteen, twenty fourteen. Noah So much later than I remember. That's his last earlier than L Russell Crow starring in a big hit movie. And it's the end of the four of what we're talking about of him being the last of kind of the old school epic movie stars because like the year after Nice Gu is the mummy where it's like you are second banana to Cruise here like at best. And then like he just enters the phase season now, which begins really when he plays Jorelle in Manestelo, which yearbard know. But like of like, yeah, you play dads, mentors, villains If you're the lead, it's a trashy movie like unhinged or the fucking Exorcist one or the other exorcist want the Pope's exorcist. Yeah the pope I figure he'd probably hires a good one He's a this thing's a little different. It's kind of like when the pope needs a really, really nasty exorcm. It's the other one called The lastast Eorcist? It's just called the Exorcism. He did another exorcist movie like within two years of the Pope's Eorcist that's about him playing a guy who plays an exorcist in movies. an actor correct and then gets drawn into a real exorcism He needs to make a third now Just stop it too It's not the same character though. it's not no no, it's not related relatively forgotten. He's a guy who works all the damn time. Y It's like it's like Hollyoods forgot about Crow and's like Crow's forgotten about movies. No, he works constantly. And he still will be in big things. It still kind of means something to be like and Russell Crowe in a movie. Right Shall we set the sales? Yeah, no, okay. So the year is eighteen oh five And Napolleon is master of Europe Only the British fleet stands before him motions are now battlefields. This is important to the movie really? But like this is set basically at the sort of peak of Napoleonic power. eighteen oh five. Lake It is possible that Napoleon is going to conquer essentially the world If you know what I mean? Like you know, losing the battle at yourfalg colonial extension the world. U like this is Napoleon being like, I'm going to conquer the United Kingdom. and he loses at the Battle of Trafalgar and thats sort of like was kind of his waterloo, right? Well, his wateraterloo is actually the Battle of Waterloo. That the joke out of years later. I just joke some credit for Scott Pipping you on that one. Great joke. Thank you. The N poolandon of course continued for ten years. like they keep fighting all that, But like this is sort of the moment where it's kind of like, is this it? You know, is Britain finally going to get concte B had stood unconcered for seven hundred years, basically. We're on a boat twenty eight guns, one hundred and ninety seven souls. This is true. They are in the northern coast of Brazil. They sure are Sounds like a lot of guns and souls, Ben. It's actually kind of a small ship prizisee obviously, is supposed to is pursuing the privateer at Caron French privateer Privateers are kind of shady. They're pirates, basically. They've been contracted by government. Licensed. Pirates.fortunately, I think I might have been a privateer if I was alive in these days ad minute I think John, with all respect to your skills and your experience such as they are as a boatsman. as an n seaman. I do think Ben would do the best of the four of us if dropped into this time Oh, I agree. Oh, yeah. I mean I'd be what are we'd be I'd be grabbing a cannon ball and running to the side immediately. Right. I would know immediately.m I'm thaninking a little kid for always being nice to me and then jumping off the side of a ship. That That's what I'm doing. I'm like immediately. I'm like point me in the direction of the fucking cannon. Yeah. I'm ready to go. Right. R. I would not want to be your job you would want Cannonman? Yeah, Cannonman. What you like you want to light it or do you want to shove the things down? I want to light that fucker. Yeah, right? Yeah. I think if a wormhole opens and Ben gets dropped, onto a ship in this era He is within six months The king of a country Probably so, probablyro so. Oh you think he would rally the men? I think he could rally anything fuckking he wanted. I think he would know how to talk to these people in a way that we would fail. We're on the boat. Just throw a dirtyo C I just want to say something like we see Killick getting an egg. Out of like these little pens that clearly have the chickens in them. this is what Peter Weir does talkking about this two boys some fucking tables in his movies. you know, it's the middle of the night. So the, you know, the midshipmen are charge of. like Aubrey's takingen, you know, taking some rest. H rest. You know, so we've got Hollam and Killick and the, you know, the kids Can we talk about the Creeks and Groons The sound of the film is unbelievable. mrter Hodsman, this film gets ten Academy Award nominations. Yeah. Unfortunately, this is the same year as Lord of the Rings Return of the King. Yeah Wh was just everyone basically decided That's right. We have to reward the trilogy. We're giving this They spilled their able seen over It's a clean sweep. Right. Steven Spilers. Yeah. It dominates basically all categories. Bad luck for the surprise. There's a Jonahbard. This wins cinematography and sound mixing because those are two of the only categories Lord of the Rings isn't nominated in Oh really? Yes. I still don't know why it wasn't nominated for sound editing because the Rings has very good sound editing. I don't really know the answer to that question. Yeah but This did win that. The sound in this is unbelievable Yeah It jumped out to me really fucking hardwing at this time. Vital. Well, one of the reasons I think it is so impressive and in the sense that it leaves an impression is that these boats have no engines And so it is the balance of silence and sound and the alien feeling of hearing those sounds because it is not something that most people have experienced being on a ship of that size It is making those little sounds. It is also very important because the reason Hoam is being summoned to the, you know front of the ship at the start of the movie The other the watchman is like, I think I heard a bell He thinks he'reard a ship's bell. Like he didn't even see a ship. rightight. He just heard something And they're kind of like You know, All right, what is this? He says the lead if you please. what's the lead So then the lb. is literally a big hunk of lead at the end of a very long line And there's a depression in the bottom of it. So imagine like it looks like can of cold brew coffee And there's a little depression in the bottom of it. And when you want to know what the surface below you is like, you drop the lead It hits the bottom of the ocean floor wherever you are It tells you how deep it is and when you pull it up, The condition of the floor is like it picks up dirt. You like dirt, right? Sure. This is ocean dirt and a wet end of dirt. it might be gravel It might be mud and shells This is when you're anchoring, you need to know what the condition of the sea flloor is So that you know, first of all how deep it is. So you know how much anchor road to pay out? The answer is five fathoms. J five fathoms in this case and a fathom, I think is six feet. I couldn't tell you. I mean, I love that they show you them calculating knots later on. like with knots. The fucked up way they had to do that where it's like there's three there's the rope with the knots tighten and then they doing this work in this Movie is crazy. It's incredible. It is perhaps the most impressive rope workk. G ever done. What's the left and what's the right starboard. Excuse me, att this time it would have been Starboard and Larboard. Oh, is that so? Yeah, that's 's kind They changed it to port because they're like,, we don't know what. we can't hear help me out here Forecastle, how this say it Fox F Foxle. Like the way like what why Wh they why they do it? Why they do it? I do not know. but yes, the The front of the boat is is called the forecastle, but you spell it FO apostro C, apostrophe S, apostrophe, Eie. Right Wh which is sort of pronounced fxle. orr sometimes they spell it forecastle, but you still pronounce it fxle. And the top And the top top mast is called the top gallant, but they call it the toallant. Now is a stunil is called a stuncil. Is the Poofeck what I think it is This is one of my favorite Simpson lin When when Homer joins he's like in a submarine. rememember that episode? It's kind of like When the Simpsons is starting to get stupid. Right. home you can do anything, right Exactly. Andbody el is the poop dech what I think it is. and like the admiral guy is like, I like the cuttier gy. everyone's like, what's a gy. May I say a thing about the sound? Of course. When Ben Marie and I went to Los Angeles last summer for the American Cinema Tech Friend of the Fast We went to the Academy Museum that has a room to try to explain to you the art of sound in movies where they show you like a fifteen minute featurette Peter Weir shot like two or three years ago It's using behind the scenes footage from the time of filming, but it's him speaking more recently and all of his team explaining the art of sound design in a movie using this film It is a thing that I think is exclusive to the Academy Museum was made for them And they have all these signs saying like, you can only see this here The thing he said that has stuck with me was he had his team,, you know,, they went to the books. they looked through all the books and anyt timee a sound was described and said, like, that's what we got to replicate, right? Let's really get into the specifics of what he is trying to evoke of these noises. U they sort of put together a test sample of here's sort of what we're thinking is the soundscape for this movie And they show it to him and he's like, that's fucking great. I love that. Keep going, awesome And then they work on it and they refine it and they bring it back to him and they show it to him. and he's like, I think the last version was better. And he said the realization he made was that they had with the extra time and giving it, you know doing the real ion worked really hard to justify every single specific sound They looked at every element on screen and they were like, we have to account for that and that and this and the timing and this and that versus the rough pass version they did was just sort of like, these are the kind of sounds we want to have like circulating around And he was like, when it became too justified, and you were trying to account for everything, it was cacophonous and it didn't work. Right. There was something kind of expressionistic to the feeling of what they showed me the first time and I was like literally Go back to that version, delete this new file to that and do the rest of the movie that way. So it's kind of freestyled a little bit, as much as it's like based on a lot of research And with intentionality, He was like, don't worry about completely matching on screen action Yeah. and you know, like again, this is an completely world is pretty alien to our experience in this year. And in a sense, you have to be impressionistic because A lot of the sounds that They might have been larding up the the soundtrack with would be sounds that the sailors had stopped hearing long ago because it's idle background chatter to them O as the sound of a bell in the distance. I hear the bell. This is one of the He comes out. Hollam can't defend himself. He's it's the early example of him not having a bit of a backbone where he's like It saw shape, maybe. Over there And Aubrey's like, okay. well, you did you beat to quarters, but you did the right thing Everyone's winding down and then like Aubrey does the like one last look You know, right, you know, like he's almost done. and he's like, h. And then you just see The sale for like one second because it's being lit up by the cannon And it's like don't hear the canon., which is such an incredible. That's in the books a lot. He really talks about like in the books, like the sound the way the sound right would hit after like can of fire tends to travel faster than sound. So see the muzzle flash in the fog and it's just so It's such an incredible way to open a movie where you're learning So much, rightight. in such in such a Let's see them all go to action now. Yeah And you know, you're learning so much about how this world works. completely non intrusive and non screenpl way Not only learning about who Hollum is immediately, but the efficiency and the economy which Weir introduces and guides the eye in a way that is not To give you an example, some feeding, it is. You see guys start to man the cannons, right? You get that. You see the guys in red coats. Now Ben, have you noticed that there are some guys and Griffin, everyone, you know, in red coats. on the ship. That's the army They live on the ship too. Okay, but they're not in the Navy They're kind of their own thing on thes They'reight Marine Scott. You know what I mean? Like they're f for fucking invading shit, you know, for the saddle. So the most of the crew on a ship like this would be Gunners. Your pals. It takes three or four guys to operate a single canon And there are twenty eight of them So they're all sleeping in those hammocks above their couninets because the ship is just packed with these guys. And then there are the sailors But they're not like deal with the siles. Yeah. they' they're in the Navy, but they're They're not trained hand to hand combatants necessarily. The Marine and the Royal Marines are the guys who have the, you know, bayonets and your They're the. Yeah and they're the ones who literally beat decQarters. When you call beat DQarters, One of the Royal Marines bangs a drum. he beats the drum andQarters describes the rhythm that he beats, which alerts the whole ship that they're going to battle stations. Aubrey You know, he's like, run Uer colors. One of the kids is like, Yes sir, yes sir, you know, they're putting up. And then Kill like, I love this gives him his hat Yeah whereere it's like, okay, we're going from like We heard a sound mode to hat mode. Yeah. you' gotta put hat on it. It's fucked up on the ship. Yeah. ship happens And then the guy goes like this And what's on his hands? So the o, the t hold fast What is that? what's that that He's the guy. He's the guy who gets the dent in his head and then gets a coin and becomes The Dread prorophet of the ship. Correct. What's his name? I forget his name, He's obviously my husband and best friend, but I don't know his name. But why think I get that tattooed on your fingers Dave. That's a really good question.oldold your first tattoo. If you were ever gonna to get to tattoo, I feel like it would I think it might be a little bit stolen Valard given that I am not a naval person. This day. I don't think I really have enough of a sort of see, you know, history. it's a general enough getting ro. You create a un nav You did it. You get a little saltier. You can just say I like holding things quickly You know I'm going to scam you up to main one of these days. I the point is The ocean is a metaphor I'm trying to well, this is England, of course. R I also heard that oceans are now battlefields I think this ship is England is technically a metonym U Right, rightight. I'm out U so they get They're ship rocked and it's like very their shit and their're ship rocked And it's very intense battle sequence. People get bloody. people die. Obviously, you know, boy loses a limb, all this, right? All this insane stuff happens. D introduced a Maturan where he basically like clears all this shit off the table because it's like I'm going to be operating and people put sand on the floor You're not slipping around on the blood. So fuck and also the water. And yet there's also this kind of like, Everyone's kind of calm, like, you know like You know what I mean?ike I tell you I was not common. I mean, this is just their this is their daily life. their life they train for this moment. Theer b. it's not their It their dily life but Is they their rain clip or maybe their' monthly or maybe their yearly life One of the things that I love about this movie is that unlike any other movie that I've ever seen whether that is a sailing ship a motors shhip or a spaceship or friendship When you're in space or at sea in that ship The world is small. You're constantly running into other ships. Sure. Yeah there aliens coming this way or that, whatever And this This movie really captures the vastness of the ocean And frankly, the absurdity of their mission. And that a lot of times it's just going to be another day on a Cree and ship. It like their mission is to find that A what do they call it in English Aaron? Yeah And then it's not Ron and French or whatever But it's like this this French privateer has been harassing ships. go get them. Yeah. It' basically up and down the coast Atlant. Right. You know how big the Atlantic Ocean is? I twenty to thirty feet? It's like, yeah, maybe maybe fifty The idea that you're going to find this thing. itself insane And if it turns out that the astron hadn't been looking for them to apparently, or at least spotting them and wanting to get them. The idea is that as they sort of allude to is like the astron knew where they were going to be essentially. Right Like that's what they're kind of guessing at. And these they came upon us in the fog. Right, right. It's incredible. And and the idea that they're even going to find each other to even bother having this battle is like It could take weeks or months before it ever happened And those slow speed chases, it's like it conveys notot only the size and the isolation of this wooden world they live on But also I think all of this humanity This is what I was thinking of as those cannon balls where coming through, right All of this human ingenuity that goes into building the ship and manning the ship and sailing the ship and everything it's all packed into this microscopic dot I love on the ocean. The way they portray the maintenance of it too. Yeah. no. it's so interesting and not a thing I've I really have ever thought of. And you look at this ship and it's like every every inch of it is this Amazing piece of human craft work. the molding in the cap in the captain's day cabin. It's like, and it's all getting blasted to shit by these canis Really rude. All this work has gone into making it a thing. And only French human ingenuity and murderers intent. British baby way. Could you please stop and people would You know, they never fired cannons at anybody. I was thinking this during Gallipoli too that nine dead twenty seven wound What happens in G? just like with the senior officers who you see at like the top of the hill watching the young boys do the basic training, you're like the ornateness of their uniforms this sort of like Lost notion of the military has to look really fucking fancy Like there's there's the battle we're waging, but also it's like we want to impress people with our class. Yeah, you got to have nice un. We want to beat their asses while also seeming more sophisticated and cultured. The whole fast guy's name is placeace because when they're looking at the casualties after, you know, you know, we're in casualty mode now. they drag the boat essentially away with rowbats, but what does casualty mode mean? I just mean like it's just like after the fact. Like they're they're counting, you know, you see the guy who's like pumping water out They're counting the casualties. Yeah. nine people are dead. Maturnn walks Aubrey around and he's like you know, place has got a fucking skull fracture or whatever, you probably will die. Daddy Gs. They go see Blakeney Ferkus, who whose hand, his arm is messed up. and Maturn says like, I know you know this boy's father Like I'm doing everything I can. Like I don't Do this character show up in the books later Is this a character from the books? Lake me In your memory. I do not want to mess up anything here. I know I'm sure there are And there isn't there is of course a mature in already a mature in wiki that I can consult for this. check William Blakeney? Yes He is in The movie that's it. He's created for the movie. He's created I thought That's what I thought.. I mean, I think there's a of characters like this. Well, good job Hi don't know the full extent. I think the O'Brien fans generally thinkink positively of this movie because imagine Bad. an adaptation could have been. But I'm sure if you are you know intensely nerdy about the books, the movie is it only can do so much for you m turn is never does any spy stuff in it. blah,ah, you know, they never go to sureore. you never understand complex nature of Be in the Navy and how your money, the money you made was based on like the boats you captured and the treasure you got basically. That's why they keep talking about the prie. Yeah, the prize we're gonna get. if wed like It's not about like making a salary. It's like you earn your keep by like fucking up other shifts and stuff. Like it's such a crazy system. You're canonning on commission, Ben But get rM too Yeah, but you know why they drink rum. Be they get fucked up. No, that's true. This is fucking boring. 'cause like you could keep fruit in it and stuff. So like it would be, you know, it's sort of nutritionally good, but I think also like it would last, right? Liken't that isn't that the whole thing with rum N'ot a rum guy, I will say. like I'm rarely getting a rum. Yeah from time to time, but that's the only context I have kind of the same. Who was the ship's mixologist on the surprise? I mean it was the guy with the w we're both going for the same. I feel like these days. That's the guy dressed like Ryan Reynolds and if. Imagine if you were like, what's your drink? you were like Rum Like I would just be like, what do you mean rum? Gight rum Yeah, what do you ever right rum on the rum? That's There's rum Coke. Sure.' that's like sugar. it Well that's what I was gonna say. It's the same with teik drink. Anyone who's drinking rum is combating rum with so much sugar and fruit. Right. I mean like Cool side, I guess I'll take a rum drink. But do people, I'm sure The answer is someone, yes. Yeah. Like how many people sit at a bar and go, like, can I have four fingers of rum neat I mean, there's I should We should see what happ should straight rum. and there's like spiced rum and all that stuff that's like that stuff not. Well we should, of course should parele over to Sunken Harbor after this just And they they certainly They go they are business Missouri it's easy to go yo ho ho mode over there at the sunken Harbor Club. So then everyone gathers and it's basically they're basically like, look, we rock, we we love You know, we love to be on the HMS sururprise, but like the ship that just beat us is a better ship Bigger, it's faster, it's more powerful Like we cannot try to like engage this ship It's very important, I think to this movie because It like lays out Aubrea Maturns. relationship immediately, where Maturn's the only one who's kind of like hardard in me, but like, are we not on something of an aged ship Andoy does Russell Krog get mad at that? He is Best it should be Crow's Oscar clip for the Oscar he should have won for this film because obviously this film should won every single Oscar, including Best Actress. They should have given it to the Brazilian umrella lady. Well Anna Pquin. whose role is impactful, even though she doesn't speak the boat, right orr the the HM was surprised who, you know, he says, would you call me an aged manan of warar doctor And maturn's like o, he's like, surprise is not old. No one will call her old bow, lovely lines. She's a fine sea booat. I want to say all this weatherly stiff and fast veryery fast if she's well handled thenen he touches it, touches the boat says no, she's not old in her prime best line ever deivered by an actor. Is this your version of the He loves to pull the corork monologue? Absolutely. Yeah. Just like the love like he like touches Like a sort of mantle and then he kind of picks at one of the wounds. Well, that's the thing. There's like the fireplace is shatterered. It's carved mantle piece This been just had a fucking Cannonball shoved through it. But it's just that like where everyone's kind of like, I think we need to refit. I think we need to go to a port and chill out. And Aubrey's like, Yeahah, I mean Rich friendurn's like yeah is't boat old? And Aubrey's like, this boat is not old. neeither am Iine. We're like and we can do whatever we need. and he's on this boat many years. You see that he carved his name into it when he was a midshipman or whatever. and he says when he is probably in thirteen or fourteen or R, right Yeah. The idea would have been like he's been on other boats. He's like served other commands and all that stuff. and but he's come back to it because yes, he loves this boat boooks, I believe that's how it go. See the HMS surprised is this main boat. It's not the only boat. Uh, that he saw on Oh really? He's got a couple side boats. Yeah, that's right. Well, you know. And sometimes he'll like capture a foreign boat and then he has to run that boat for a bit. Really? Yeah, I mean, that happens in this movie where like they capture the Acaron. And then James Darcy gets put in charge of it 'Ca then you would just be like now we're gonna to call it the fucking HMS British sausage. Yeah. You could just change it. Yeah. J just feel like it's our boat now, bitch. Fllow of the banger. Yeah, exactly. The HMS pie and mash. Should people be allowed do that with Chipolata. Should people be allowed to do that with cars now? HMS Bavriil. Okay, with cars. What do you mean? He beat someone in a fight et your car? Then you're just like seprise. Yeah. Yeah, and you get to call it you get to rename it whatever you want. Wouldn't people just be fighting each other all the time? Yeah Maybe it's better than what we have right now. Is it? Mbe? I guess I'm just describing a Mad Max wasteland so It would be real might versus right situation breakout pretty much out of me to suggest this, the man without a driver's license. whyy am I trying to will this into existence? I don't know, you want all of America's bullies to get cars? Yeah Then you have Blakney's arm getting amputated, tough stuff. Yeah I the bravest patient I've ever had. I love that. And I just love that it is routine. Yeah. It sucks, but it's like Nelson, you know, it's part of the thing why they keep talking about Nelson is Nelson didn't have one of his arms And I think one of his leg likeike Nelson up. He beat Napoleon, I think with one arm and one leg and a peg leg and then the other arm was just this. you know, the the sl hook Maybe he had a hook for, you know, eating. I'd get a hook I would have like a fork. Not only did Nelson defeat Poleon Yes One arm kept the arm that had been amputated. tied it to his bag. Is that true So he defeated him with one arm tied behind his back. Okay, there we go I'm just locked in on Ben on this one. He was such a get J straight the first half J just for Ben. And then he gave it up with a grin as the punchline came in. but I was really buying the performance at first I kept thinking about just because of my broken brain Hodman, do you remember the Steve Martin Medieval Barber SNL sketch? Oh, very, very vaguely. Theodor of York, maybe is what it's called. He had a funny haircut. Yes. He had a funny haircut and the bitid is that no one fucking understood medicine in medieval England. And so he's the barber, but he's also the doctor and people come over and he's like Time to amputate, you know, Throw some leeches on it. It's the same four things where someone's like, I got a headache and I got I got the sniffles. let's say. R Time to amputate And I was thinking about this during this movie, but especially in this amputation scene where I think they do such a good job of characterizing and a lot of it's in Betneanyy's performance as well that this guy is a very good doctor. This is the best guy you could possibly have. I mean, tending to you even at a time where so much is unknown. and the pology is limited because Giffin, the following scene is the brain surgery Yeah scene. and that's when all of the you the guys are gathered and they say like he wouldn't look at you for under ten guineas on land. Like this is We got a real guy here He's not some surgeon, but isn't he a And if Well, And if you should know, he's a naturist So he's a surgeon, but also he's very into Charles Darwin and stuff, you know, type stuff of like cataloging animals. studying ye, species.'s a separate hobby. I don't know who he is in the books. He's also like a polygot. He speaks like every language. Yeah the impression that I got from his character in the movie is that he's a naturalist and he is using this opportunity to travel the world. Yeah and and into catalog and that how he sort of earns his keep on the sh. But that's douck. The core tension between him and Aubrey and it comes up in the movie over is Aubrey's like, I certain I'm here to fuck fuck king. Yeah. No, but it's like, I'm, you know hisis Majesty's Navy R maturn's like, yeah, yeah, when can I please look at more beetles And he's like our orders are to kill the French and he's like, there'll always be Frenchmen to kill. But this beetle is only here. Yeah, but Mat does also make the case that it's like, well, yeah, but Maybe you shouldn't do this anyway. Not just because I want to go see stick bugs and dr there's a crucial moment in the we're going be we're going to get our act where he says like, are you being too prideful? And that's the classic, you know, any fucking Star Trek has that too of like There's the one guy who can say like, capaptain, right We all follow your ring. We'll do whatever you ask, but like are you being You know, you takeaking m this too personally But there's a relationship between Maturin and Aby that is different from Kirk and Bones. It's different from anyone else on this ship. They have a marriage. They have a marriage. And that's when they're playing the cello and violin together. That's their, you know That's their whatever, love making. Do you know what's really interesting about you making that comparison point Miclas all of it Yes Michlas all of the San Francisco Chronicle of that time gave this film one of its most negative reviews because it was pretty widely acclaimed His whole angle was on his protectiveness of the books. Sure. And he specifically likes by removing the matur and spy thing or not making it deeply teror. felinizing him, I think is I read that review too. Well, and I beyond the same the same c I think you're getting. This was his exact wording. Their interaction takes on a preening quality reminiscent of the interaction of the Star Trek characters four or five movies down the line Yeah I take that to mean a little bit sort of like too cutesy. like when Scottty is speaking into the MacIintosh mouse and he goes compomuter, likeike that that one of the funnest things I ever had No, I agree. But I just kind of feel likeuclear How does he say nuclear again? What is it? Oh, Jesus. He says it funny. Yeah and it doesn't matter they't work. That is Voyage Home is a movie. I showed it to a friend recently. Nuclear N way go. A W sorry Vooyage. No, I want to look it up now. Yeah I No It's nuclear vessels. It is Wess. I knew there was a die to you. That's just one of those you show to a friend who's like seen Star Trek, but maybe not and you're like, Yeah, And they're like, what's this one about? And they'm like, Oh, there's some Klingons. Oh, there is, well, actually no, not really. They're on a Kingon ship. What do they have to do? They travel through time. Oh okay to fight Klingons,ight to save the wh. Me a lady and save some whales I mean, mainlys going to get these characters back to vibe with each other and that's about the end of the movie. Like, you know, I mean, we did this on Patreon in Depest Darkest pandemic, but it is fascinating to look at the box office spike on four becausecause it was the one movie where they could just market it and be like, you don't need to have seen any fucking Star Trek. Don't get it. You know the cultural osesmosis of these guys You get a fish out of water thing. And if they show up in San Fancisco in the eighty comedies a comedy world am I literally fish out of water? because they allow that whale up. This is true Okay, so you see like there's all this stuff that you have to watch the movie a million times to really care about, but like When they start playing the violin and cello for the first time, that's the ship has been healed. You see Killick also cooking? He's making these like kind of grilled cheesy things look really nice. They look really into toast out of that in that chafing dish. Right. Uh And he goes like they go scrape, scrape, scrape. you know, But like that to me is like like basically him acknowledging like, all right, they've made up like there. And then the boat is the boat is the sails are fixed. The boat starts moving again. The statue is repaired. The statue is repaired. Blaky, he gives he survived the amputation. He gives in the book with the Nelson stuff and he's like, I fought in one of these, you know Order has been restored. Right. And you see Aubrey, writing a letter to his Bide, fiance, Josephine, you know, like somebody. They see a little we've got ladies core ongoing love interests in the book. Right Right you know, you see a little picture. Yeah. It's not really marked upon after that. That's when the boys come in and say We saw the astron being built. We've knocked together a little model for you. And what a knocked together model that is. It is pretty good they get next astron. evenven though it was intended for saluton dayay. That's fine. We'll drink wine F. All right, we'll drink wine Do you guys have Salutent D day plans this year? Or do you try to just kind of highight Rum becausecause I don't want to have to drink. What if Trump was like, we're bringing back Salut and dayay None of saluting in America these days. David, the chances and we're not recording this episode very far in advance. The chances that will happen before this episode is released fifty fifty. Just so master G. Why are they salutin all the time We're gonna to make oceans battle. This is when the film's incredibly compelling Oscar winning actress, Lady with umbrella makes her appearance. Thatly has woman. We all ask who is woman. That really awesome. It is a cool sequence though where it's like, right they're kind of in paradise Like they're in South America, peopleeople are like paddling up and trading like mangoes. like the coast of Brazil Um, like, I would be one hundred percent you would do this. You would buy a monkey Yeah. Right? Like some trader comes up and he's like I would have been like, how much for the monkey? Dfinitely. I'll give you, you know, what do you want? Like a bag of rice? Like what you know, what if we got around here? whver what they? He has a little vest Right because monkeys have a little vest. Give them a little vest. This might have been pre vast That'sies That's the story of the, you know, the bounty, right? The HMS bounty is like they reach They reach the South Pacific island and they're like, what the fuck are we doing on this boat? Like we are so and, you know, we are so far away from everything we know of civilization. whyy should we? continue to follow these wearrible rules and be flogged. And that's the other reason that there were Royal Marines on the boat too which was to prevent muninays. Ben sent us there were six saluting days a year at this time, it seems, for the quQeen's birthday to mark the restoration so that King Charles II so the the, you know the resumption of the British monarchy The king's birthday to mark the king's coronation. Jesus, to mark the king's accession. Jesus. And then just for November the fifth, remember, remember the fifth of November Gunpowder plot Yeah After this, after the trading, You have, in my opinion, the greatest sequence in any film ever shot except for it's tied with all the other sequences in this film, right? Tied to number one. S wives and sweetarts may they never me it's the din They're having din What movie does this lesser of din sc. E just all it's dinner with Andre. Tue. Mousepons actually has because he's a chef. There's a good am That's a pretty gross dinner. There's a cockroach in it.reff, haveave you rewatched Mouse M recently? Not recently, but I remember that scene is burned on my brain because as a kid, I was so grossed out by it. Wow. It's good. I mean, it's a great scene. That's kind a green card too with BBb Neworth We definitely have seen Green. Yeah. That's a really good Peter We're movie. That's what' saying.ight.'m saying justcre.. there is something very beautiful about this dinner scene. Just just bea what about this movie? They had a big battle sequence. Then they play the cello and the violin and then I feel like Hollywood would be like, all right Can there be a sword fight or something? He's like, No, shush They're gonna to tell jokes at dinner. Aubrey's going to make a cheheckov joke. Exactly. Well, I mean, I think it also speaks to the fact that in their the pace of their lives was very different than we could ever possibly imagine now, which was there's a lot of time sitting around. They can't even bingash can't they can't Netflix and chil at all. don't have a single streaming service Wait, they don't w no, no peacakk. No, they don't want a peacock. They don't even have peacock with ads. They couldn't even dream of getting the superersized fan edition episodes of the office Can they watch Tktown onulu? No, John? No O land they could, right I hate to tell you this, they couldn't. And this is this is gonna to scare you even more. What's that They didn't have the option to read or listen to Vacation land in any format. N paperay, not even in paper. Not even hard No. David They know Harback, they didn't have fucking medallion status. What about the audio book? No. That's why I said or listen to. But what if they open a time tunnel and John read them the book through the time tunnel? M me thrilled. Why do you think I was out on that schooner looking for a time tunnel? U this is when the youngest, you know, because like basically it's like hold was packed with copies vacation land and pry said to Blake me, I served with Nelson, right? So then the second youngest boy, you know, I forget his name. Hallim Uh, is like, can you please Tell me about that And Uh I just think Crow rocks this so hard. The way he like You know, says, like the first time he spoke to me, I'll never forget his words And he he like builds it up and he says, he leans across the table and he says Can I trouble you for the butter or whatever This this ought to go, Aubrey May I dp you for the salt. It's so funny. They all love it. I love it. I'm sitting here laughing. I'm gonna say something. The day I'm on, she's probably like, you know, put a blanket on. Shes just got that sleeping cap She's asleep. I'm fucking Nelson in the Simpsons watching Hank Williams right? I do genuinely love how long of a walk it is to Lesser of two weeats It's such a long one because then he tells the serious Nelson story about like, how Nelson said like the zeal of, you know, service kept him warm on a cold night. And you seem mature and going like Give me a fucking break And he's like, I know, I know. it sounds absurd. you know, from another man, you would call it pitiful stuff, but like with him I believed it.y you know what? T Nelson T Nelson Nel Nelson the greatest Hge. I feel like you're about to say. Well, I was just going to say the lesser of two weevils joke deserves its own conversation. And then he's that's a long walk. Th he's like weevils in the st in the style of two Jarvis' And Maturan's like they're the same. They're a fucking weevil And he's a frigidor loves this like he gives the Latin name for them. He's like, you have to choose. Cly cuteraw Culoes. And then and then Maturn puts on his legendary Cuuny littleittle glasses. Perhaps the Cuntiest little glasses ever worn in a movie. he originates. He might have. They're so small Homically tiny. Yeah. They're so good. and he's like, it's on to findine It's small. I pick the big one And it's just I mean, the way if you watch Crow, this scene should be just studied secondecond by second. Yeah. is laughing like because he's like, I've got he turns to someone's and then he's like There I have you, you're completely dished. I should say that to you all the time.tely dished. I know in the service you one must always choose L. May I ask for something from our community of listeners. Of course. Can someone please make a super cut of this Lesser of two weevil scene with the crowd response from Bernie Max Def? That''s I mean, everyone also cut it into when Anthony Macie shows up in endndgame. Yes. You know, when everyone starts when he says Avengers assembble or I want the rackous laughter when he puts the glasses on. they start ttering, but it doesn't explode until Don't you know, we must always choose the lesster of two weevils. What is the collaration on these weevils U They just they're alive. Theyuits. Yeah, they're in the b. They're pests. Sure ye Yeah. They're not bugs. Is that what you mean Yes. The biscuits, I guess are what I'm kind of fixated. The hardard tack? Yes. tellell me about this. It's basically flour and water and salt and it's dehydrated and it lasts forever. It looks aggressive. pry. Yeah. I would say hard teack. I've never had hard teack. I feel like Sometimes if you go to those like naval museums or whatever, they'll be like, you can try hard tack Have you ever had hard tack? I've never had hard tack. It kind of makes Matza look You know, like very more moist ye Yeah, you know what I mean? I hear it's a little more palatable one topped with some weevils. Oh sure. and then soaked in some rum. Yeah. I share your admiration for this scene, David. and I would say if I were Per we' watching pro's performance I would say to myself, I'm glad Richard Burton's dead A hundred percent.es, perfect. I don't think Richard Burton. I love Richard Burton. I guess. I mean ye, I mean, I've seen manyt. he's good. He doesn't quite have the humor. likeike he doesn't have the humor. Re is such a sweetie in this movie, but not in a way that feels like too cutesy or anything. Do you know what else I would say if I were watching this scene be shot I'd say Jesus Cck, that's a hot heart attack. Hey thanks for the call. You're welcome I mean he's the humor is exactly right and the warmth and the And the childishness, right. He's a forty year old man with old a bunch of boys. But he's still a child. Yeah, he's a troue leader All they do is fucking hang out. Th these boys, they gott to entertain each other be. All they do is fucking hang out. They don't fuck and hang out. No. They're mean where. I think they did lot of that. I mean, famously now So Nson died the Battle of Drapho Yeah was shot by a sniper. He I thought he was fucking. Well, famously, maybe you don't know this. his last words were hisismet Alfred isman, of course being the word for, you know, love moreore faint, I would say. Right, fainted love. but most people think that Actually sorry, not Alfred Hardy. that's why I was double checking. Hardy was he was talking to Captain Thomas Hardy. Most people think he said kiss me, Hy.. Oh, And that's why Alfid was so mad because he wanted to kiss him No, that that like that the words got changed to kismut because at the time no one wanted to acknowledge that, of course all these Well, you know, I was thinking veryer like these relationships. Whether we're or someone put in the picture that moment when when Aubrey is writing to his female acquaintance When they show the picture just to sort of in a kward way, tell the audience, donon't worry this guy's not gay The relationship with his relationship in Muran is not A real marriage, it's a sea marriage, but sea marriages were real And they were often quite intimate. And again, it speaks to the isolation of the wooden world that they were in because they were beyond. this is why there were so many superstitions because it was so dangerous to be on board alsoso you are moving I just read a novel called Moby Dick turnurns that good. That novel really conveys how crew of the PeQad, which is a much smaller crew because they don't have gunners on it. It's a whaling boat and they'll be out for years and they are so far beyond the reach of civilization, they're outside of the eyes of God And they become a society that is completely different. And so all kinds of taboos on land were broken at necessity or pleasure, whether it was jalism or male intac. Yeah, you're sleeping in a hem. with comple forty other guys. Cool Jacob. This sucks. Do you think they just had like a jacket corner? Jack and booth? Yeah. I would hate to be the bottom bunk. Yeah, they called it the head. Or hate to be like the twenty fourth guy in the jack and booth that Oh sure. It's like waiting your turn to get in the jack and booth. The booth is like filled to the brim. Come on, em out to the sea, Jesus. Phill it Have a little window or something. I don't know. Go mit style, you know, run into the shower Yeah. And I think that the and I think the clear marriage that is very cooded, you know, sort of hyper traditionally heteroed normatively, you know, husband and wife between the two of them, you know Aubrey's the warrior and urans the caring nurturer of the sun and blah blah blah. I think it could have made a if not Chronicical Reviewer, but other reviewers a little confused and uneasy. And I'm not saying that's a reaction that I had or sure thing, but came into focus a little bit more like why those someome of the people who love the books be like, you gott to have that guy do his spycraft because otherwise, he just got be like a baging wife. And I need to know that he docks and when he docks, he docks. Right, Eactly. But I think it's such a beautifully portrayed relationship. I agree of of friendship and something deeper than friendship. I mean, you just invoked a great novel that you've been reading and how it Dune Messiah Well, Moby Dick is the one specifically I was talking about and how it kind of illustrates the way these ships become their own contained worlds where the rules of social interaction are rewritten reminds me of another serious sober work of seafaring that I look to often Mu at Treasure Island in which they are on the ship for so long they catch cabin fever Yeah and it forces them to like little song Flameno number They all suddenly get like That is a f I saw in theaters. Yeah. I don't think I've seen since. Great mood. I do remember every cabin if you number. I'm sorry, I can't play with you on this road to two weevils that you're taking me off. Are you going be left out of shipping of ship related ship stuff? Cabin boy. cab boy Another example highighly realistic. Yeah. I capture it. We' studing it a lot In addition to the like twelve, thirteen year old do Oicer cadets that were the midship, and they also had literal boys. Well, that's the joke of cabin Boy, much like get to lifeife is like what if an adult man was doing this thing? Right. I didn't see them in this though, I don't think. No. Sims, what were you about to ask? Can't remember, the Acaron surprises them. it's fine Uh And u, you know, so they they get sors sort of you know And But in a way that R gets surprised. He doesn't like that. But then they they pull the whole maneuververs's irony Do doesn't know. The astron's like the river of woe or whatever. It's like from antiquity, I don't know, you know, But then like then they kind of maneuver around. they do the thing where they the little boat out create the illusion with with the manager version right using the lantern. Right. because throw them off even though they're separated great distance. Right. And even though they're both moving probably at about ten miles per hour. would be the top speed that they could get ten knots, eleven miles per hour. They get up They're inexorably going to catch up. the Ashron has longer guns that can shoot farther. R. And so they're going to die until Aubrey has this smart idea of what if we pretend the poop deck is actually further back. than it is. Good shit. That's good shit from the flipck. And then they have ask for them. Th then they have them. then they have the drop on the asteron and they're going to get them, but they get then the storm happens whichich like I guess this is the other major action sequence of the movie and it is awesome and super intense. just has no gun work It's all waves. And also to your earlier point, this movie doesn't have a villain even in like an abstracted way, a sense of like, I got to get revenge on this guy. Which I love. R Be that's life. It's like ye, they wouldn't really know who are on these ships. I mean, I do like that Aubrey has that moment where he's like, did I kill this guy's kid or something? Like whyy does he hate Sure, But like, but he's obviously just imagining. He's like, I don't know. to me you're saying about people were complaining or nervous about the fact that there wasn't an antagonist and what makes this movie special is that The antagonist is a complete mystery. Yeah. And it's like it's it's accurate to like the idea there's a there's a big twist at the end. There's a nice let's I would say it's a little twist. It's a saucy little twist. It's a saucy It's a cheeky littleucy twist. It's cheeky little twist. It's a s bed cheese of a twist. There's this moment whichich it is how Souss Hogsficer. There's a moment where a maturian says like he fights like you Jack, a kind of like, you're not so different moment, right But obviously like when they're they're pursuing him, the storm gets them. they have to give up because they like The fucking mask gets dght, you know, like they have to cut the mastk off because it's like turning into an anchor There's the whole sequence there Right You know what I'm talking about. Well, yeah, because the all right, well, that's where we're at. I know. Okay the guy dies. he can't swim back. Yeah, what's his name again? Rawleigh or something? He's that beautiful guy. He's one of the two guys who pop in and get the extra rations of Rum for showing the the model of the Ascheron And he is he is in charge of the of the top mizon mas. Yes. You see the other it's Warley I think is his name. War. you see the other guy crying and like putting away his stuff and all. But so then the top mizon mas So there are three masts on this boat a three masted sailing ship, square rigged, not f an aft Ben It only really gets speed when it's direct the wind is directly behind you And their first mass is the foremass, the middle mast is the main mass The afterftmost mast is the mizen mast He's on the top Mizen Mask. Standing on what's called the fighting top Or maybe he's talking about the crossrails, but he's on a platform way up there and he's trying to bring in the sail Because that sail is how you move the ship, but in bad winds, that becomes dangerous And he can't get it up so to speak And that's why Hollam has to climb up fails to do. And does he is he kind of he's cowardly. Do he sabotage and really actually lead to that that sailor's death. He thinks he's responsible. I guess so. I mean, he didn't stap like He should have been up there Right I scared to get up there. and you know what It's scary. It's fucking scary. I want to go up there. I have not I did not this timeQ quickly I wash out the British Navy.'re like All right, welcome you're the fourth son of some lord. I'm like, hello, and they're like go up that thing. And I'm like, I'm not going up there. What are you talking about? Yeah. Do you have like a chair I can sit in? I mean, conceivably if he had gotten up there, He would have he would have been able to help his name again, Warley? Yeah, sure. Help Warleie Fine you know, get rid of that sale And so the wind couldn't take it and pull the mastter apart, R send the m the master After that is when Maturnne sits down with Aubrey is like, are you being too intense? Can I just one more thing about the mask? Yes. That's a really good instinct, by the way, to deliver all of this to Ben. I think it's really smart. Thank you. It's like you're trying to sell Ben on going on a boat. which think I p only one of the two the three of you that I could probably question press gang into coming to Maine because you've got these children and you've got this life You've got a life I do on you, but I'm up that way often Yeah with my wife's family. Here we go. This is true. Yeah. I would love to come visit you. The boat, the boats may be the bigger ass. You climb up too climb up, you climb up, you know, that thing that looks like a ladder that's, you know, so the mast is held up and held in place by stays. So two long lines that go from the top to the front and back, to the stern and the bow and then shrouds, which are lines that come down to the sides. That's how it stays up in tension And and the shrouds on the sides they have ladders built into them called rat lines because you climb up like a little rat And then you get to the fighting topop, which is a platform. two thirds up the way of the mass where the sharpshooters would stand and But to get onto that platform, you have to climb around it And sometimes the boat is tipped over and you're basically upside down.'s really dangerous There's a trap door to go through more safely, which is called the lubber's hole And if you love right. Yeah, I'm def mean I like boats. I like being on the water. I'm not opposed. It's just I'm more of a sort of like Everyone else do that is there whereere's the, you know, Die player I would say I do not like being ons and I do like port. There's a reason can make drinks for people. Yeah That's. That's why Killick Killick is his name Yeah, that's why he's one of your favorite characters. can love that guy. A very He's like the dr cheheese in South House pk space and all that. So then like Maturen calls Aubrey out. Aubrey admits like I have at this point exceeded my orders. My orders were to try to catch this thing off the coast of Brazil. We've, you know, we've been chasing it longer than I need to. And they're faster too and they' So they make it around the Cape to the Pacific. So then he's like, all right, you know what, Killick make a delicious map of the Galapagos Islands out of jelly Whatever the fuck. What is it Who knows? Yeah. I mean, it's some kind of old jellies. Yeah, it's like a jelly And essentially's like we're we can go to the Gavicos Islands. We have a whaling fleet there. I think the French will be heading there anyway. We can try to regroup And good news see you, Mr. Maturnn Maybe you can look at some animals. That's all Apagos Island. That's why he's in the business. There's a Lins and shit. This is alluded to in the movie but I'll ask them Do you know why whaling ships and and ships of the line and warships Love to go to the Galapagos something to do with the stream? Well, you could get fresh water there for sure. You could rep provvision there. Or I guess I'm saying the like stream of the ocean. No. they wanted to go there's a specific reason, which is, u tortises. Torttoises were good food on these ships. Oh sure. Yeah. because you could you could keep you could take a bunch of tortoises off an island. I guess they don't spoil. They don't spoil and they don't drink water and they don't eat. Okay. And so unlike that goat and cow you have on board got or milk. you saw that in the table setting the beginning, you could Take a stack of tortoises And put them down there and just kill them you as you went. And they're kind of less than hast They like funny. more that they're just less annoying too I personally didnt eat up your resources.. I personally think that hundred year old tortoises taste great, but that's just kind of my taste and I think I should be allowed to eat as many You you love. That's why you're constantly fing Yeah. But no, it's true. You're right. I mean, look, they were why that's why the whaling fleet would go by there. They were not ecologically conscious. And then the privateers would were going after the whaling fleet because they were with very, very valuable Bom So this is the moment. I already alluded to it. They're about like Maturan is dolled up. He's got his housecoat. He's got his strawat. He's got his little like that for Halloween. No, I probably should, although I think I might just be, you know, escorted to an insane. Weually David does dress like that for sleep. Those are his versions of her pajamas. The birds Yeah want to see those shobs on Mbe. And they pick up some guys, right who are like, you know, who have information, right? like they They're whalers. Right. They're they're we survivors in a whaling ship that was captured by the Asharan, the albatross. Jack's like, we gotta fucking go. Let's go get it. And they have this fight, which I really like because like Maturn' sort of right of like, you're, you know, you're you're too crazy You know, you're're you're too obsess with the actaron and we don't need to do this. But Mc Turn's also totally selfishly like I want to stay on the Galapos Islands. I want to look at penguins and stuff And it's very emotional and well played is mature and kind of he does kind of act like his wife is yelling at him. Like it is kind of the vibe where he's like you know Duty, please, you know, we must Um, and so Uh that's but he does get to all right, right, right. That's when Blakeee gets in the beatle He's like, if nothing else, I found a cool beetle. Can we like catalog And that' sort of the beginning of their bond. Yes. I like all the shots where it's the perspective of the telescope. Yes. and seeing the different animals and the discovery of the iguana that can swim The way that all just plays out alluding to evolution It's awesome. Right. Randy Iuanas is the swimming Iiguana where he's like, they don't swim in all these fucking quuas. I think it's one of the few non documentary films to ever shoot at the Galapos. Inded they shot at the Galficos, which have a very weird David, I wouldn't know because I've only never seen it in the movies. And this is like, oh yeah, remember when the movies used to take you places? Yeah, it's true Well maybe we should go. Wait you ar to Maine and now you're pitching a Galapagos expedition. Oh, we can go to Maine, get on your boat, sail to the Galapagos. whereere are they And know we got to go all the way around America. look you're the captain I get it requirements of the service. It' just But then we have be Then we have the Jonahlot Th then they are their their wind is gone It's hot. They're not moving. They can't get into action Bys start being mean to Hollem because they consider him the he's sort of cursed the ship Well, and also he may or may not have been directly responsible for the death of Worley the and it's the Worley's best friend He particularly takes a hatred to Hollo and refuses to salute him And at one point, you know, Aubrey like punishes someone who's not nice to Hollam, right? that guy's that guy. He doesn't he kind of checks him As far as where they're at storm was around the horn. Yes. they've gone around South America. They're on the other side They really are. They are now on the far side of the world because the Aos Islands are off the coast of Ecuador, other by off the coast mayd be hundreds of miles off the coast of Ecuad There's this great fight that he has with Maturn. I love their fights wherere obious like, I have to preserve against the mutiny and it turnurns like These fucking guys are are in this like wooden prison. they've been like pressed against their homes. and he's like, you can talk to me that way, but I really hate it when you talk about the service that way. L Aubrey's like, you know, I really like being in the Navy. I know you think it sucks and just want to look at birds, but like it does rock And and they're both right and they're both wrong. Yeah because he is absolutely chasing the Asharon for pride Men must be governed. offtten not well, I, you know, admit, but like they must be governed and mataterurns like, you know, that's what every sort of, you know, dictator says. It's a great fight. I just love that the movie has room for all of this. Yeah, the Jonah subplot like is the first thing you would be told to lose, I feel like You're telling me the movie stops two thirds of the way, like the action stops And we just focus on like a side character having like a psychod drrama basically, like Yeahah, it becomes a psychological thriller U and it ends like so perfectly and so sadly with him just like, does he Grab a cannon ball to go down. Yeah and just holds it all like you've always been nice to me anyway I find it emotionally affecting but things sucked so hard in this time that basically you would learn to become the best doctor alive in order to get on a boat in the hopes that like once a year, right. They'd let you go look at lizards for two hours, man And the fact that he does become this good of a doctor and clearly take so much pride in it. I mean, who knows the fucking order? No no, he's good's But I'm saying the naturist thing feels like his real driving passash hasash totally. Yeah. But me invoking the fucking SNL sketch earlier, it was the thing in in the amputation scene is without acting like meta textual or like he's a fucking time traveler Bety somehow u praise the delicacy of like looking at this kid and being like It sucks that this is the only way I can do this It sucks that all I can offer you is a stick to bite on You know, I'm kind of the best there is and none of these options are great. This is always going to hurt. And if I see like twenty of my men injured, I might only save three of them and that's a pretty good ratio. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Jonah dies. Okaykay. timee for action to begin again, right? No. turn gets shot by a guy trying to shoot an alb. an accident. trruly. and kind of an I mean, I hope he did eventually shoot that albatross and put it around him kind of gets Yeah, it's kind of a Dick Cheney situation, right? whereere he's Yeah, fuck, I didn't mean to shoot you. It's embarrassing. And And worst of all, a little bit of shirt got stuck in the wound. That that's the fucked up part. There's this great moment when Aubrey's like, you know, because they spot the the acaron, they could try to catch it And Aubrey makes the decision like, no, we're going to stay here. We have to take him to the stable ground to do the surgery He's staring at the cello Like there's a shot where he just looks at the cello standing there. It's like, he can'tperate without mature Like he knows like I am not going to survive if he dies, like essentially. L I need my other half, I need my sort of better temper, all that stuff. I would and then I would argue that the You know, I don't think this is his primary motivation, but the crew kind of also need a doctor too. Well, this is the thing because the other guy, the assistant is basically like, yeah, I'm pretty good at operating. I do barfit the sight of open wounds and stuff, but. you know, The fact that Mterurn shaky hand. ally you see him checking watching the YouTube about how to perform surgy Murnn knows how to remove bullets with shirts with shirt Mis knows the only way he's going to survive is for him to do the procedure himself and no one fights him on it. The fact that he says it and everyone's like Yeah, you're right. This is the I can't believe Betany was an Oscar nominated thing where it's like, you'reing me in the middle of movie, he does surgery on himself with a mirror, right? L like But as point out, this was a weird supporting act. It was. L the Oscars were also just dumber back then. I feel like they're more lenient to newer actors and performing, you know, I don't know. Yeah Good news. What does this mean, John Oh, he gets to go out they're on the fucking Islands. He gives them the gift. I mean that's a really beautiful scene of pro fucking trying to act like he's not as softy and being like, no, we were gonna stop here anyway. I didn't do this for you. Right. I just to tell I didn't want to capture that boat. brring you out in a fucking stretcher and walk you around one time. good. It's You the do we got a little pissed off like three days after they Well'll stop chasing the asteron and he's just got a and took a bullet out of his own belly that he's getting up and walking around all the time. maybe I'd be like, okay, maybe we should get back on the ship. I wouldn't have done this whole ceremony No but it's so you were injured It's the weird fate of it, though, because that's how he finds the acreron Right? because he's on the Galapagos. That's such an amazing He's measuring toroises and he's got he's like I like he has this like box that he looks into the ocean with, right? Like the sort of like spy box that he can use to look at fish and shit This is I've got the time que. It's an hour forty What Fx support Rothman, I assume is watching again, like me like Nelson watching. Roth we stretch it out? Can we make it other exact like do we need the iguana measureuring sequence like Is there not a boat for them to fight? Well, I mean, I hear that Jack Sparrow like fences with every member of the cast prior to the Caribbean. R And also like will certainly, you know, it's a slow burn, but it's going to lead much like the weevils walk into an awesome showdown with him and the other captain. No, he boards the ship. the guys But he's not Oh sure But yes no. you're right. I mean, like the final sequence is very intense and rock's in a theater and all that, but like it is not Right. Aha likeike Captain Frenchman and then like a big sword l like I need finally deck up a bo or whatever, you know, all that for us. I mean, I'll just say this real quick about you know and revisiting Peter weir another of these S right, onene more thing. Oh, yeah. in the glf go they find the Acaron. What else do they find John? Dick insect., whichich gives Aubrey the idea to disguise And that's how they capture the Acaron. they get them. See? it all like you need this is this is a breathing organism, this ship, all these people with these different needs and interest world. It's not a prison. It's a world. He wasn't listening to all of them. He wouldn't be making like the evolved decisions because they're privateers and they're greedy. because they're not just engaging with other you know, naval ships They're also going after private citizens. A hundred percent they'll raate anything that looks like a prize. Right. One of the things I've noticed while re watchatching someome of these weir movies and seeing some of them for the first time He's like it's yeah, Tom Rothman is like, yeah, more more Galapagos, please or whatever. R. But Peter Wear is so patient. as a director in all his films. Yeah. It just and there are definitely momoments and witness certainly in hanging Rck where you're just like, oh yeah, I guess nothing's going to happen And then all of a sudden something will happen and you're involved is. And again, the charac. The beauty of it is that he's not sitting there and all of a sudden The Asstron comes around the corner and it's huge. sure. He sees it and it's tiny. But it's close enough And that he can go into battle hair mode. That's right. say lookook at that. Let the locks flow. You bring up the patience. It is one of those things that I often think about and we're choosing to kind of just like step away, right And even that his last film becomes an independent film and one where he needs foreign financing. This is the last time he works with the studios. is I think he just sort of saw like, they're not going to let me do this anymore Even if it's not I'm making a hundred million dollars epic, which he was one of these guys who liked being able to level up and work with those resources, it's also just like No one lets studio films have this kind of patience anymore. is a patience that runs across his small intimate dramas to his giant epics. And maybe one of the reasons that people don't Think about, oh, Peter like Peter Weir all the time or like the Peter Were style movie And this is not a discredit to his talents. He wasn't all that uncommon in commercial filmmaking at the time. sureure. Like the opening sequence of You haven't covered Well, you have covered green card by the time this goes out. Yeah. yeah. yeah. But you know, like, that opening sequence with the kid drumming in the Yeah in the subway. Yeah has nothing to do with the plot. Yeah just a creation of a mood in a world. He does it in this movie too where it's just like, littleittle building moments of like, Here's what life is like in little tiny five to seven second vignettes And there really we used to see that kind of stuff in movies all the time. He was be like there would just be a sequence of like, here's New York City. Here's a guy hail in a cab. I mean's a dog day. Exactly. Right. And now it's the Netflix thing of like every movie has to open with a helicopter overhead shot of the city and then immediately into either an action sequence or some kind of big comedic set piece or the beginning of the plot You know, I mean, they have all this fucking data that's like, if something huge doesn't happen within the first ninety seconds, everyone's going to flip away. And even in theaters where it's not like the risk is someone walking out of the fucking theater is the thing they're concerned about. you do feel like that concern dictating The edits of these things even if it's just inevitably this thing' going to go on to fucking streaming, you saying he's not is is he was he less unique in the moment than it feels like he was now. I think he's a master of that. I think also because I think it was not unusual. No, his uniqueness was his consistency, I would say. Yeah. and also the versatility of genre of size. of tone There are very few people who I think made this transition into the studio system and just basically stayed true to their standards and their ethos and didn't slip because you compare it to like Wolfgang Peterson who like goes from making like his very serious movies to making like top level popcorn. rather than making shitty popcorn Like the arc from like Ds boot. perfect storm to Poseidon is what often happens to these guys at some point they're just fucking picking up the checks. Yeah, we or maybe saw it coming and got out of the way. Maybe to tie it back to a moment to Bastter Commander a movie that I believe David likes Yeah I've heard that I think that what's one of the things that's very beautiful about it is that the natural patient pace of a Peter Weir movie Marry so quickly with the necessary patient pace of saailing a ship in the Napoleon But like it has a completely different mood than we would think. What happens when they engage in battle Sit pops off. It's what I like the craziest part of all this. It's like so much of your life is what you're talking about is the careful, like how do we maneuver cl. And then it's like when we're next to them, everyone has to go insane. Right? You see Killick going insane like during the battle, like there's one of the other chefs is like beating someone up with a pot Like it's like hitting someone over the head with a pot. obbviously I already mentioned , you know, you see Blakeney, little twelve year old Blakeney just boarding with a gun. Well is his mission to first he's in the whalers? Yeah, but first's the other ones. Oh, sorry. No first he's in charge of the boat. Remember he's like, Oh, I don't get to be in the boarding party and he's like, no, you're gonna be like in charge of the surprise because we're all which is an honor. But then there's that moment where They're so close and they both start pointing like both boats are pointing the cannon right at each other. and Blakely's like, we have to fire first. like, you know, we, you know, they're going to blow a hole in us. He's a good commander of the surprise. And then he says, arrm yourself, we must board them. He's a little child. and you see Maturan like grab a gun and cock it and I'm watching it right now. It's so exciting. And love I love that Blakeeny says that because he appreciates that it's necessary because he's smart Yeah. But B he gets what he wants to do anywways. He's like, you know what I am going fuckking board that boat. The assistant doctor guy, the cowardie, he's not a coward, but the gross outout dog, he has that moment where he stops a cannon from being fired by putting his hand in between the fuse and the like the trigger. Oh and it hurts It's only like he's like almost slap sticky moment where good. Maturan picks up a sword and starts fucking with. It's so exciting It's the greatest thing that's ever happened Like I said, tied with all the other scenes for a greatest scene in a movie. But yet Calamy is sent is tasked with going and rescuing Yeah, getting the other whalers out members of the Alerus R that will put the odds in their favor. R It gets more guys on their side. And that's when it's over. And then Aubrey sees the surgeon who is actually the captain, pretending to be the surgeon, operating on the captain who is probably just some dead guy. they put a coat on. And he says, he tald me to give you this sword . Yeah, that's what happens Uh and Great You don't know the twist for a while, obviously. There's the what's his pants dies? The sweet boy. Calami dies and he doesn't sew through the nose for him. because he's asked for that or remember the Blakey asked Blake or Blaky asked him earlier gets they get sewn up in their own hammocks. Also the guy who looks like a blobfish dies love that guy so much the master. Oh yeah, you know, he gets shot. Yeah the master loveove him Um, it's great. It's just, you know, just the right balance of like triumph and misery, right? Like it's sort of like This is life at sea They bury everyone, they say their names They sing a little song, right? all that stuff Would you want to be buried at sea U, he gives James DarC. Okay, great. Really? Ben? We'ing a tie Yeah. c. He's decid We're deciding for all of us. Yeah sure.. Yeah we all now we all have to do it. We're giving Ben power of attorney. that he gives James Darcy the Acaron. Right. He's like, take that to Port Jarvis take the Acaron to Valpyis so and then we have you there. The moment I already freaked out about which is Aubrey realizes like, oh, shit, no, the captain's still on the ship. R. We have to go get them. We can't ay of the Galapa. sorry. Sorry, once again. bir white list, not going anywhere. Funny line, rightight? billion dollar gross, right? Yeah the greatest thing that's ever happened. And then they they fucking they play and they jam out Bea what else are they going to do while they're going there? It's going to take time. I' gonna make a joke that the mid credit tees was that they're building a white Maturan And then I remember that in the section where he's been shot, he basically does he gets Yeah, gray T mode Yeah, that's funny Thank you David, how do you feel about this movie It's my favorite movie ever I love to watch it. I try not to watch it too much because I do as with all my favorite movies, I try to kind of want special every time. Yeah So it's like every year, so How many times do you think you've seen it? like twenty? Sure, fifteen, twenty. Yeah, right? Like you amount. You don't ever put it into an assassin's Creed style rotation. I don't think I do that. That's a ben I was hearing about In college, I did that. In college, I would have the movies to fall asleep to a little bit more I't knowickle through them. I don't know if you do this as well. It sounds like you didn't with this, but certain in the same way that I like held off on re watchatching this because I was like, I should make it fresh for a while. do that. Yeah, yeah. There are certain movies I look at where I'm like, I'd love to watch that, but there's a good chance we cover that next two years. I definitely do that. And it would be nice to make that feel a little more special. I'm never gonna arrived as Griffin finished watching the movie. I look, my memory at this It's your friend. I'm fucking dory. really try to do everything pretty. It set of my brain so quickly Right that I feel like the specificity of thought I need to be as close to have just finishing the movie as I do Um We mentioned We play the game in a second. C could review. A question before the box office game I know you're going somewhere. No, but you' going to the box off. you're leading and you're capaining the ship. So I don't want to take us off now. What's good question? My Galapo silence The overall question is what's the new thing you've seen in it since you've seen it so many times? And then the prompt might be How does this depiction of war compared to the depiction of war in Gallipoli That's interesting. It's got the similar thing in Galipoli of it's about like a Brotherhood of manan a little bit, right? And then you don't really know or see your enemy. But like, right. But in Galipoli, I feel like it's a little bit more like You know watching it if you have even the barest understanding of history, like these boys have no idea what they are in for. They have been drafted into a war that is pointless. They are being drafted into a uh, you know, battle that is famously worst thing that anyone ever tried in World War O, basically. Right. Like one of the biggest disasters.. So you kind of have this kind of like innocence is dying here. I don't find that with master and commommand at all. at all. I mean this is like You know, it's not something maybe some to be proud of but like this is part of the lifeblood of this, you know, of this empire, right? is like these I mean, obviously World War one was a not was a particularly modern war in a way that people didn't understand even when they were joining it because of the kinds of guns they were using basically. It was just much more fatal war, even though The brutality of war is depicted to a degree in this movie as well But it's also like the as you mentioned, the triumph is there too. So it's kind of it's a romantic film when it comes to this. Hugely romantic. And Mc is right. There is no reason to necessarily go after the Acheron after it No. This is not some movie about like I mean he gives a great speech where he's like do you want Napoleon to be your king? Like where they're all fired up about it and it's like, yeah, sure, in the broad sense Britain didn't want to lose to France. Yeah, but this isn't even wrench on this Naval ship. This is this is a they're contractors. Yeah, you know, they're not going to invade They're not going invade England. The Astron's not going to invade England nor are they going to continue hunting for the surprise necessarily unless they disguise themselves. U Hodge, I got a question for you about his fair play. I know you've done a great job of explaining and selling then on the specifics of life on this ves and boating. Yeah. And obviously your experiences Ain with boating are different than what is depicted in this film. Are there slightly? Are there specific things in this movie that you feel like Wow, this gets it right in a way I haven't seen before. I mean no way it's really able seen. Not even like on technical details like feelings and experiential and yeah. I mean, I think that Um It is profoundly creepy to be sleeping on a boat that makes no motor noise. This is a reason I don't trust boats. That I think captures very well. I mean the depiction of what You do in order to make a boat like this go Yeah is to the best of my understanding experience and reading very accurate. I think that's very cool U because it required a lot of intelligence and ingenuity and that sort of thing That thing where They have to escape into the fog and they don't have enough wind. so they get out the boats and they pull. That was how you would know, but that is how you would man sure those boats, you know,. particularly A square bent so a square riggbed bat. Okay. All right. know I'll tell you. I. I'm getting so hungry and we got to play the b. I understand it Thank you Thank you for letting me talk a little bit about that. But if I may, please We've reached end of our discussion of this film Oh yes, Oh, Jesus friend forotten it would be appropriate to honor Yeah its appropriately. Safe and sound at home again. Let the waters roar, Jack. Safe and sound at home again. Let the waters roar, Jack. Long we've tossed on the rolling manain. Now we're safe Ashore, Jack U Don't forget your old ship mates. F R Okay Ting a solo David. V no I don't know no two. It's got your name. I don'tbody We were not prepped for that. There was no editing. We just jumped into it. Did they say this other part? I don't remember this did part. Oh yeah, no it goes the self same gun Quardckive vision, Sponger Ionlader you through the whole commission. Long we've tossed on the rolling main. Now we're safe ashore Jack. Don't forget your old ship mates. Fally R Ry R R I Did you u lookook this up, this is u It's called, Don't forget your old shipmate, this naval song. Do you know what makes Ben best in the Biz? I mean everything, but go ahead. Ny nine out of a hundred producers would have just texted that to us and Ben printed it out.. I't think it matter I think we locked in right away. Absolutely. It makes me think it's mean. When they're a little mean about the nice singing voice of Hollam. Yeah, I think it's mean when they're mean. I feel like it's a little mean. I mean, they're not like that mean, but they're kind of like there's a moment before he s. So this is when he joins in on Farewell and Ado Y oldish ladies. And they go you're a little pitchy dog. Yeah that' ye. But right before that they the crew is saying before he joins in You see him sort of gamely tapping his H hand and it's really aw meat and so touching and just down Anyway, all of the characters are real Thank beautifully. Oh no final but thank you very much.if an extra expression of Rrog for Ben. Yeah. November fourteenth, two thousand three. Y. Master Gommander is opening to twenty five million dollars. number two at the box on I do know what is number one The Wikipedia entry, there's a sub entry of accolades and awards received by Master and Commander. I was just trying to look up the award situation. In the opening paragraph, it says The movie was considered a disappointment coming in number two behind Elf. Is this the second weekend of Elf? How much is Elf dropped from his first weekend It went up, did it not? Okay at least according to the numbers, which Everything feels a little unreliable. I remember it having a minuscule well, I remembered it going up, but it it goes up in its fourth. There we go. I knew it has dropped fifteen percent. Yeah crazy. So Elf is number one at the box office with twenty six mil mastering around right behind it twenty five mill Right behind that is a movie that has dropped drastically. Also is a movie we've covered on this show U It's dropped drastically. It opened against Elf. Yeah. Elf has now taken number one. It has dropped to number three. It opened number one. It is an action sci fi sequel. Oh, it's the Matrix Revolution. Yes. whereereas Roaded had done so well. Revolutions opens big but drops out very fast. Elf was so fucking huge. There's something that feels representative of it being like the thing that Master Commander has to open against. And that that was just like, we gotussell Crow doing Gladiator on a boat. Isn't that like automatic forty million opening weekend, like adult fucking entertainment? came in soft at the same time that Elf came in so much hotter than anyone was predicting. I'll say, I first watched Master and Commander with our son don't know if he remembers ever seeing the movie Our son and my wife who's a whole hum being in her own right will watch Elf every day together if they're allowed to. Yeah. I mean, Elf is a I watch it every year movie. It has stood the test of time Every day, I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah ' it's the only, I would argue it's the last holiday film that basically has been canonized. ye interesteresting absolly.'s It's good It's an excellent movie And now John Fava is bringing us the Mandalorian and Grogu and I cannot wait to meet those two guys. Number three is Matrix Revolutions. Number four is It is the animated film I twoason three. Oh, it's Brother Bear. Brother Bear. It's one of only two I haven't seen. Brother Bear and Wish Mhm Number five And as we may return to this box office game one day, it's a film we will cover. It is new this week. It is opening to nine million dollars, which is not good It is a fun movie. It's Lon Tunes backack in action I could have gotten it with fewer clues. Is this where to put this movie Feels like a summer notone in November Yeah I guess they're hoping for a Thanksgiving family thing, but like it just kind of feels like everyone's like We'll just see Elf. rightight. I think they had no idea Elf was going to be that big. It is crazy that it's also Alpha's newew line and this is Warner Brrosers. L they opened against themselves I just think the expectations for EFf were really low where it was like If that movie makes fifty million dollars, we're going to be thrilled and inste it open to forty and then had like Those those tight spandex legs Elphin's up at like one seventy one hundred eighty. Yeah. Yeah, no, I think they fucked up on the release of this, but it also like Warner Brothers treated that movie with resentment. Well ye Raster and commommander had a Joon on board. Let's just say Yes, true. It was it was charmed. It show so charmed, but it is so cursed. Joe Dante has talked about this where like he would get into studio like note meetings on the Looney Tunes movie, and they'd be like, says this line, What's up Doc? What does that mean? Does he need to say that? Oh boy. Where he was like getting noted by people who didn't understand why they were even bothering to for creativity than people justifying their jobs. The movie is kind of about that in a lot of ways. It's like a movie of like development execs being like, does this suck? Now, do we fucking hate the movie? now I will never see it. No, it's really good It's him. I will not I will not speaking a movie about movies ever again. It is a movie Maybe fundamental value was the one exception It is a movie made with contempt for an industry that is overthinking everything and not understand the value of these cars. I'm officially in my weird dad phase if it's not about sleeper trains We hear. I think you would love back in action. They go to arerea fifty one and it's Junk Q Sack. I think has all the great runes on the box. Number six of the box office is love actuallyct A movie that is a war crime. It's not good, but that That is a movie that our daughter makes us watch every Christmas. Yeah She extremely goodaste movies and television. That is emotional abuse. But she really loves that movie. Yeah. A lot of people love that movie. A lot of people love that movie. A lot of people voted Trump Not accusing your daughter of voting for. No, she's a Mga.t sure Mga and Maha Okay. Number seven of the box office is sccary movie three I was pid one hundred two million dollars. was a big hit. Yeah Number eight is the definitely not embarrassing movie radio No, whoa. Everyone walked out of that with their heads held high. Number nine is new this week is the Tupac Resurrection movie, which is a sort of like was do documentary right, you know, kind of. I think briefly had the highest grossing documentary Cowner was close to it. and then obviously the next year Fahrenheit nine and eleven comes out. then Just went to the bathroom. when comes back from the bathroom Im gonna toach how to anchor. Number ten of the box. He's about to anchor in that toilet, That's right. This Mystic River. You might do it wrong. Mystic River. I never saw it. What's it up to you film, which is made forty five million dollars on its way to ninety Yeah. Soar that's a film. Yeah Well, the thing about it is they save everything for the blooper Reel, but they are great Oh my go, all those seeds are so funny Is that my daughter in there?, I fell over. I don't know. Yeah. That's the box office. We will guess yeah do this again one day when we do Joe Dante because right? That's I'm about I'm about to keel hauled by David, but I just gott to say this one thing. please.' now I'm done. so you guys can just chat. We know I have a better answer for you visa V What' the you I' right? Sure, sure And what I think that this movie captures And I think is part of what the movie is all about is the Powerlessness. literal and figurative of being on a sailing boat. tootally. right. You have some control, but you have a lot of no control. How much how much control is overcompensated and in, you know, uniform and in ritual and in Every else because they know that it will fall apart if there isn't discipline, right. But also you are at the mercy of trruly unseen forces, the wind. And if someone else has the wind advantage, they're going to win the battle And if it dies, you're becalmed and it's you It's this collision of a sense of control and complete lack of control. It is very tense, even if there isn't a love interest or an antagonist, traditional antagonist. That is an excellent point, beautifully expressed, and you have finally given me words to explain why I don't like being on a boat You just described exactly why I don't like it. Powerful and powerless and that you have a bunch of fucinking responsibilities and rituals to maintain, which to me sounds like a nightmare And also, you don't ultimately have If you ever wanted and Ben, I'm inviting you as well. Yeah The wonderful comedic actor and improviser and just straight up great actor, Mark Evan Jackson. He also has the same bug Oh, sure, the boating bug. The boating bug. and he and he is a partner in another one hundred and twenty year old wooden sailing scooner called the Grace Bailey. Wow. Jesse Thorne and I are going aboard in June For four nights to lead a Judge John Odgeman. Sailing cruise truly. It's I think sold out, But the Grace Bailey is an amazing experience. This is interesting. to sail on. Mark is on it sometimes. Yeah I'll be going back on it eventually. I'm not refusing the experience be really, really great. And you know, I would invite David If you want some master and commander type experience, this would be a really fun experience. The Grace Bailey, sail Grace Bailey. Yeah. Now Bab here's what you do. What's that? Do they have cannons? They do not have cannons. They still go that. But you'll like this because these schooners, particularly the Merry Day is was purpose built for passengers travel in the sixties, but the Grace Bailey and a bunch and five or six other ones They date back to the late nineteenth century when schooners were the tractor trailers of theast Coast. There were no roads, there were no railroads So you wanted cargo moved around You would fill up a schcooner and move it along the coast up and down, etcetera. So carry P run Cole. u paperback copies of vacation land or whatever. And if you wanted to stop the schooner Here's what you do. any kind of boat First of all, you drop the lead to see what the quality of the seabed is Then you drop the anchor, right And if you know that it's five fathoms deep, for example You're going to want to let out att least three times and up to seven times that amount of what's called Anchor Road Closest to the anchor, it's all heavy chain because it's not the anchor that keeps you down change. But you got to pay it out longer because there are tides because if it was too short, it would potentially it would break. It would there would be too much tension. it's you put the anchor down and then you lay essentially you're laying the chain down along the seabed. for a length of time and it's that weight that keeps you. If you were just holding onto the anchor, it' pull right out. That makes ton of sense. Yeah. But yeah, I love when you see There's like one in In Long Island City, there's a huge anchor, but then there's also the chain, which which is so incressed that is fucking massive. And that how you do it then. So cool. What's a coxwain The Coxwain sits when you're it's a rowing thing. that's ra The coxwain is the little guy who sits at the front of the boat So I could be a cocksway. Yes right. You are the actual perfect bill for a cockw You have to be really loud, you have to yell Oh famously, I can't believe that. I think you can do it. Bill Boy He's the cockwain's the cockswain. That makes sense. It's also the steer the steersman of the boat. And like a like a cockswain in a when you're rowing when you're, you know What does it crew? You know what I mean They usually choose little you know, smaller people to sit in the back of the boat and call out the strokes. That what a cocksain is and cr. And similarly, in Napoleonic war times You wanted a smaller coxain to steer the boat and that's why they had hobbits to it Okay, so I'll be your cocksain sometime Definitely think the worst job is the crank guys Well, the worst job is Pg boy, but we're not even going to get into the kind of That's there's not even an argument there then the other way they would move the boat If they didn't have wind, you're going to love this They had a smaller anchor And they would put it in one of their side boats and they would row it way out in front of the ship And then they would drop that anchor way out in front of the ship And then the Those crank boys would crank the captstain around and pull the ship to that anchor That was another way you would move If you had no wind sure which they I think at one point do that the first battle scene Yeah, they have the boats tow it. But in this case, it's like it would be like throwing a grappling hook and then pulling yourself along Or they would tie themselves to a tree and then pull themselves up. if they if they're near land or whatever So cool. You understand how fore and Aft sales work Thank you' all for listening. Please remember to rate review and subscribe. Hodgean anything you want to plug Well, the fore and after sale is something I'd like to plug. It's an incredible means of propulsion that uses the Bernoulli principle differentiating air vacuum essentially it works like an air fooil. So inst Never mind. Also, I would recommend plugging any leaks in the wholeull of your ship. There you go. There we go. I'll tell you what, I will plug my substack hgman. sububstack. comot Well look at that because you get news and little musings from me. but you also get me reading Moby Dick aloud in a terrible main accent chapter by chapter. I've been going I'm only about halfway through. So the good stuff is yet to come. And if And obviously,, you know, I don't want to get people's hopes up too high for something that may never happen. But if, for example, Vacation land ever were released in paperback I assume that sububstack is somewhere where it might be announced. Yeah, you would learn about that probably at hodgman. suubstack d. com. G. You also get to listen to me read Moby Dick Loud in a terrible main accent. It's not a joke It's a long project that I enjoy. Tune in next week for the wayay backack We're finishing Peter Weir with her buddy Alex Rospererry who comes in Cal. Civil Balanced I honestly I remember that being a fun episode, but can't say I remember what happened Can't remember anything. Yeah, yeah I mean, I guess we probably litigate a bunch of stuff with Alex 'cause like yeah, that's usually how it goes. Right. He explains how there only ever been two good movies in history And they're both Sper Mario Galaxy He was coming in hot with those gallons. He really was like, yeah, he was yeah, I think he was trying a little hard, but no, I think it was natural. It was easy and organic Uh Anyway, tune in for that next week. Uh and as always What's the number one Bat fact. that you didn't get to share that you came in locked and loaded with today, John I talked about cedging, and I talk about anchoring. Cedging is when you like get really close to steering the ship, but that's right It's, u there's a Nautical term called Goning. Yeah, sure and glazing.. And only the ablests of seemen are capable of all three. Yeah crereatate some more semen in the process. Yep,s's how happened. That's how what happened. And that's how we end our episode. Yep