The Confrontation with Laura Linney

Gron. Riston. Speak, I can hear you I'm greater podcast that gif hope Ejoy an inspiration to millions sounds a little high. then who am I You're the star sidechck to somebody. Nothing real was this all bits? You Were real you? That's what made you so good to listen to Listen to me. Gristian There's no more truth out there than there is in this world been created for you The same lies sameame deceit Noarvel. We know you better than you know yourself I never had a microphone in my head. You're afraid. That's why you can't leave. It's okay, Griffin. I understand You've been listen to your whole life You were listening when you were born. You were listening when you took your first step. You were listening when you showed up late the first day to work and the second day. And third day. most offft noon. We all know all fifteen smart. The episode of the podcast where you lost your first tooth. Can't leave Griffin belong here me. David Done. And sometimes Marie. Yeah Mly new releases Wt talk to me Well Say something, Godddamnit, you're on a podcast You're live to the whole world. In case I don't see ya Bank C check with Griffin Did. I'm Griffin. a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. and sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby This is a mineries on the films of Peter Weir It is called Podnicket Hanging Cast. There you go. Normal And today we are talking about the Truman showh. And I swear, I know people aren't going to believe because there's editing involved But I swear to you that was the fifth take. That was that took so long No joke, the time to which we agreed to start recording this episode and the time it is now, there was an hour difference between them. Many things happened But what things happened? I was early. JD was late. Oh my good. We had much to discuss off M Griffin calling out a guest for being late. I just the height of h. like this frameoran. This episode starting an hour late because of the intro It never took a while Ik a second Tue took a. I can't believe what's happening here. I'm just saying. Thank you JD, and I'm gonna let you handle it. I'm just saying. The you The first times when you have been forty five minutes late in this recording and when I have been here. impmossible. And sweet, David and Ben, I'm sure they have numerous stories of that. The one time that I'm fifteen minutes late I get called out. I'm not immediately I'm not a dangerous road to go down. You being fifty minutes late was turned into a Griff slam. This is insane. David teexted willll probably get here before Griffin. and I said, I am here. Yeah, you were here. You were watching the show. C job Ben get Griff to watch his special features with you? No, he was here watch. What are you talking about? Griffin, I know. I' baiting you. You have to relax. I swear to God. You you Griffin are chronically late to blank check and thus we make fun of first time hearing. You have to bear. Wow. You are chronically late to this show. We've been doing it for eleven years. And I'm in decade of dream. Okay? That's it. You simply have to accept that you will Take some hits on that one. But Jie, what were you saying? I was just gonna to say you're accounting for blank check. I'll represent the rest of another sphere side of blank check. This is not a blank check phenomenon So it would be really insulting if it was playing Ccko and everyone else is like, I don't understand. I feel like I'm being right off Truman showed. I feel like you motherfuckers are Truman showing me. Can I admit something because I didn't do it? What? But I had made plans to Truman show each of you over the past month that fell through. Oh, you were gonna like film us from afar and I was gonna have Oh Walk not even talk to you while microphone. But it would it would break two party consent laws cour in New York state. sounds a little creepy. Yeah. Well, the big one that I was gonna do fell through that involved it was going to happen while Griff was abroad. I Oh, okay. Okaykay. probably piece together. Yeah Oh sure. Okay, that's an obv can I can figure that out. But what about me? I'm more interested in how you were Well, I had going be I had ideas for each of you and then when that fell through and then life got crazy I didn't do it. we were gonna to mic all three of David's children. Eactly And then that I decid he a lot of like can you not hit each other A can push and yelling Okay. Well, and then I decided not to do it because I felt like also morally ethically it was not as fun to me in a way that I'm like, that would have that was me doing that with friends. What they did to Truman. What they did to Truman Let's be very clear because sometimes people consider u discussion endorsement. We are not platforming Christoph on this episode. We in no way condone his actions. We don't think the Truman show was moral Just because we' devoting an episode to it does not mean we cosign. The actions of Christol. No. Yeah, no, I don't cign. this is a yes, this is not a movie that cosigns him either, right? I'm doing a bit. I forgotten bit bit G. I like I like a version of this is actually so fun I think there's people for whom the Truman Sh could be an entry point episode And yeah, who knows this point. So I do think there's a fun dynamic that today we have Chill, happppy David. and worked up G guess what I did right before I came here. Took a swim. I guessed out feeleing good. Simply never. Filed an article, took a swim Here I am a blank jack talking about One of my favorite movies ever made. Truman stle I'd be doubled over on the fucking diving board I would never touch that water, simimply never. Truman probably doesn't even swim laps, right? Like he doesn't go to the pool. I heard he doesn't drink milk either. No, I mean, in the fiction of the universe, they would keep him far away from being comfortable in the water. Yeah. Right. That would be bad. That would right for him to learn how to swim. Yes. goo ahead. What you just said, this is one of your favorite movies of all time Absolutely. Huge David movie. I think it's a movie that is possibly without You texted me last night without a fight. I think that might be correct. Well, here's the thing I'll say this under the guid. It's a different sort of review than like, it's my favorite or it's the best or whatever, but it is a movie where you're like, Yeah, everything went perfectly here Like, you know, or everything I'm being f out Oh he's going thing did jump out at me. L that No haven't watched this since I saw it in theaters and I was a younger man and it was a different time But this was basically your first watch in nineteen years. Yes. Yeah. The stuff where He is freaking out puts a knife to his wife. to her throat. The way that it's nots a knife, it's the sllicer dicer Yeah. It's a sharp thing that could hurt her. Yeah, and she says, do something. The domestic violence of it all was really shocking and that it didn't play for me at the time as as being so scary and like there is almost violence committed. I Yes, this is a man who's not okay. Yeah, right. The m has been and his wife is an actor and he's gone mad. Andes, just the thing where then it doesn't feel feel like whoa, he almost just really hurt her. I don't really take that I didn't agree with that. I think it does. I took the movie cararriess that way. Just the thing J He has to scream do something Right? Like the point is like that's the moment where she she breaks And she starts to the moment where all of them breaks Yeah. The moment where Noah Emmerk breaks is when he goes like he's gone. like which is when they're like cut transmission. like The wall is broken, right? You know, and that's when she says, do something. She also was the one she starts brand ing it, not that it's like a self defense move. She doesra. You know, he grabs Yeah, but it's leading to the breakaking reality of like, he's already sort of like, what's the fucking deal with this knife? You know, he's like calledul out the like her selling products like earlier in that conversation. talking to you I agree with Ben though. I think it's I think it's terrifying and it' it shows that this is not a well man and it's it's heroic character in that sense. It's someone who is going through Great turmoil. Yes take you back on to that comment as well is when I say this is a movie without flaw I mean, In terms of the story elements as I see them today in twenty twenty six, obviously, I can imagine that years from now, there might be stuff even right now you could look at and say there's flaws in that. I just sort of mean, it's a really I meant that in a way that it's a very tight movie that Everything seems to be acc couter not that it's a movie without ability to coll I get what I're trying to say. let me help you here. JD does endorse the behavior of Truman in the kitchen scene when he holds theife knife to his wife's I'm sorry, sllicice or diceer. Yes, that's what I was Thankk you, Griffin. I appreciate it. You said imagine This might be an entry point for new listeners. I think Blank check is now like the Truman Dome where there's only a door and an exit. I think we've trapped a lot of people in our ecosystem. How do people enter Bink check No what's it called? this town I think elevators, you see it. You see behind backstage. Oh sure, R. But like But also may entrances are there. Maybe partially through that door, there probably many and it's not through that door because that door is that was a little go insane. everyvery day they go to work here they take a sailboat from it. No, that's my. 'cause it's like if it's a town of what do we think, like a couple thousand people or something. Obviously, they live there Like the people who are there mostly the mor cast, the regular they got regular contract. No, I think no, no, no, way more than that because they say they sell You can live Oh sure. And like I think the idea is like you're allowed to live here as long as you agree to not like run up to Truman and But ye clearly will cast people for new roles. Right. But any of these f out. I'm just like, how do they get stuff in? How do they get food in? Well, here's the interesting thing you know, how do they get all the ecosystem in? You guys were just talking about watching the special features. R like the making of thing. It's one of the privilegees of being early to this podcast. you can throw on couple special features. Oh my Grlin David There's people who are listening this episode the first time who they think Griffin's whole thing is that he's on time. The second decade of dreams punctual griiff Uh Peter Weir talks about a lot of the u the world that they built and how they envisioned this coming to be. And something I thought was fascinating that they hint at in the movie. And once I heard hereer, we were explaining, I was like, all right, this is what they're hinting at. Originally, the Truman show as they saw it started with just an infant. It was a way to sell baby products. Yeah And so it was just Y you are like who watched the show when it was just a baby, But then I'm like every pass of the Truman show, I'm like, now I'd watch it. Like every single time, you know, when I was a kid, I used to be like, No, we would watch it. Now I'm like everyone would watch it. The brilliant thing about this movie is that the internal logic is really tight on It starts and you're like, how could they have constructed all of this? And the answer is what Christoph had to pitch to someone originally was really small, contained and cheap whatever they say, four or five pregnant mothers. we follow them. We follow a baby. If a baby's awareness is so low, we don't have to construct fiction around them in the same kind of way. And then at every age he gets older, the bigger the show becomes, the more money they can raise, the more they can build around him. Well, and then what Peter Weir said was that in their internal logic was that They added a garage that you could see the dad coming home so they could sell garage products to men. And then they started like, oh, well, we'll just keep increasing make a town. And they sort of hint to that in you know, they have the flashback when he's a kid and you hear like construction going over one hundred percent over the hill, which where they're like Treuman get off this rocks. The most scary image in all in that montage is though is when he's in the crib and the cameras in the moment. It's so good. I think of it it freaks me out so much. Yeah Because it is the innocence of a baby, like where they're like, yeah, they wouldn't know what that is. You know what I The thing? Of course, I do watch my child through a camera I do Yeah, but I don't broadcast it. And your children listen to blank track, so they' No, they do not. Hearing they are certainly not allowed to do.Pods or Raycons, maybe if they prefer. David's children won't know podcasts exist until they're eighteen.. the idea of David Ive thought about it. Out of professional shame needing to create his version of a We don't have TV in our home. Right. yeah. ye. You can watch as much R rated movies as you like. Radio goes out over broadcast signals.. And you have to listen. Don't the time Then don't you put this out over any broadcast. Okay? All right. No AM. All right, No FM Promise. I think that these single best choice Weir makes in a lot of ways with this movie is that Christoph isn't obvious rooutot one crass TV entrepreneur Slezeball that Heath is buying his own bullshit Of course. This was like a conceptual artist. who The way he dresses exactly that he's like some fucking soho art guy. And you're genuinely like this guy was probably doing performance art and large installations and whatever for like twenty years. I mean, he's based off the fucking gates guy which when the gates happened in New York, I was like, oh, retroactively, that's what Ed Harris was playing. But then he comes up with this idea that's like, this is such a big project, but also I could make money doing it. And he in his funal speech Truman is like really buying his own shit that this is the most profound way of the humanellity Tum this for his whole life. Yes. Like he's excited to do it. And he thinks, obviously that Truman will be happy to hear. And he thinks he has done something kind for Truman and made humanity better at the same time while also making the most profound work of het in history. Maybe he did. Maybe it's good Maybe I'm reversing my opinion. Truman show good T Tran good Trumman so good. And I think especially the casting of Ed Harris You could cast someone to say those exact lines into that exact thing that plays it more like a Hey, I'm a TV director guy, you know. and it would Cigar, which was a big eighties trope, right of the like the like, listen, I'm just like a TV guy and it's all about ratings, ratings, ratings and like even the running man the running man is doing it again in twenty twenty five in a way where you're just sort of like, this isn't really the archetype anymore. No, and I think I think the more more evil than the ratings go up guy is the No, no, no, what I'm creating is actually important art. 'Cause that guy's just like, it's business baby. Like people want it. I'm serving them the slob. This guy is so pretentious. And there're also other people and we'll get to like the hopper thing O people who could have played the character in this form once we identified the shape of him, and it would have read more like parody. versus Harris is so incapable of being sort of tongue in cheek. ins sincere that he's lending everything he's saying with the most gravitas it could possibly be given. Yes. I mean, it's it's God, this is such a wonderful movie. I love this movie. I also think it's a movie that I don't even know how to categorize this and maybe you guys can help me conceptualize this. There are movies that just when they they come out, they become own conceptual entities that feel like they've been around forever. It's like the matrix, you know what I mean? where it's like but when the matrix comes out, You're sort of like, oh yeah, like that idea that there's this world beneath the world that is operating above and beyond, you know it becomes so like, yeah, of course, that's a trope and whatever. You live been a simulation. Yeah. You texted me last night. The Truman showh Matrix one two punch was the season ending philosophical cliffhanger that brought us the mess that was the two thousands and set the stage for the twenty twentyies. I agree with that. Now here's a bigger question parked in me Has there been an idea that big in movies burrow that deeply into our collective consciousness since those two. Like has they' in the twenty first century? So I'm just Ernest goes to jail was before that was I'm gonna to hip pause a little bit because I'm like the Matrix idea, I think is the idea you're talking about. The idea that we live in a simulation. I just mean I know, I want to finish this thought likeike and I feel like the Matrix, like you say, they became like a cultural the Truman show idea. Yes, there's the, oh, what if your life was a TV, but I think it speaks to the much deeper feeling that everyone has had at some point, which is Am I the protagonist of reality? Like Everyone's had that fantasy nightmare. It's such a it's such it's such a part of being a person hundred percent especially being a growing person. It's in the dossay that Andrew McNnichol was like, that's where it came from Sorry, No Mick I was going to make a joke and then I realized if you just spotlight that part of the name that I got wrong, it sounds like a slur Um for the Irish. And Hosley right here. Ey. Wha. I'm saying it. I think everyone needs to say. I think you really saft you really you really softed at by pointing it at someone directly think. Is there an idea sense that has entered the cultural consciousness? so I would have to think, I don't know. I was just reading and how Andrew Nichkel came up with this idea and talking about it being extension of when you're a child and you reckon with that like, am I the center of the universe, you know Y awareness, your understanding expands, but there're always, it lingers as like a paranoia and that he was just like I wrote this down on a piece of paper, knew I had a fucking bulletproof idea. You know, I send like one page out to all the studios and people were like, you have struck And I don't know, even just in like You and I David reading fucking deadline and everything And when there's like the new hot project in town, like the bidding more over this I Can't remember the last time a movie had like a sentence like this that immediately everyone went holy shit. I would have to think there's gotta be something. Well Yeah. I also think too, what I meant even more so than just the premise of the the Matrix and Truman show being similar in the sense that there's these sort of alternate universes of just them as artistic objects feeling so primary to culture like in a way that I think you could throw Titanic there something a gun Yes, exactly. We'd only seen him middle before Eactly. Well, because here's the thing with the Truman show, it's not like this idea hadn't been done before in some wayays. No, right. There there has been a lineage of TV shows and movies that were sort of like What a Famling show is a guy knows that his life is a TV show. What's the BBC series? Seven up, Sven up? Sure, right? They had been around. of course. Yeah. they're still around whichich I did did every seven years. And I also rewatched it after because I watched the Truman showow of whatever a couple months ago when we agreed to do this I was like I watched the Truman S show, then I was excited. And then I was like, I want to watch the seven U series again. because I was also going down the sort of philosophical rabbit hole of like How does it mean to point a camera at someone and document their life? Yes. And how does it change their life and all that? In what ways have we attempted to do things like this and succeeded in fan? what were the real ramifications? And I feel like the seven up series is the closest thing to The closest thing to this that we have you find having when you watch. So you watch seeven up, which is just I just find the most like profoundly moving document. It's so interesting. It's such a portrait of Britain you know, at the time and the class system and all that And then you watch fourteen and twenty one and you're like, I can't watch this. It's so uncomfortable I would argue And then you get past that and then you're like, now it's pretty juicy again. Like now it's really interesting to see how the shit shook out. I have always are middle ones that are tough. That Link Laders's Boyhood has this exact problem where there are a couple years in the middle where you're like, it is too painful camera off him. Anyone of that Yeah, it's tough. Yeah. And boyhood like just ends when you're like maybe this guy's chilling out a French movie called Etra Avoir, a documentary to be. That's a very good film. It is, but there is which is about a one room schoolhouse in like rural France taught by this very like engaging, interesting teacher. Forot about that movie. It's a great movie, but it is one of those movies where you're like, I think it was fundamentally unethical to make this. Yeah. I think this is But likeike This shouldn't have been a lgh. I was just listening to ourur friends the Big Picture It will be months old at the time this episode comes out, but they did an episode where they were talking through the twenty twenty six best documentary nominees. and how they were like, every one of these movies feels potentially unethical to me Yeah. I mean, maybe we're all being too wke They were sort of just like in this weird world we live in where now everyone is like public. Everyone is like, to some degree, front facing, cameras are everywhere. Somehow also it feels like the lines are more blurred than ever in what is supposed to be a sort of controlled, ethical, delineated documentary Stm Eespecially for these like highbrow Oscar docs that are like issues movies. They're like all five of these are like very not self righteous, but like this matters and we need to bring light to the subject. And they're like every one of these I watched tensing up about like, is this actually moral to do to these people feels like an extension of life at large now. Yeah, and I think I mean, listen that pointing a camera at something is a subjective action no matter what you do. Yeah. And that subjectivity is radioactive, no matter what, becauses it's something that people are projecting onto. When they pointed a camera at Ed you know, for his TV. His mom, you know, reveals the affair I trying to think what elseens in that TV. I don't remember all the. I know Denny H sleeps with his girlfriends his brother's girlfriend. Jeta Elfman? Yes Dennis Hopper plays Ed's dad. M Llandos's stepfather. Correct. Hopper comes out of the woodwork. like, you know, It's just interesting that this is a movie where Truman's dad comes out of the woodwork and Hopper was originally cast to play at Harris We can talk about that, but of course, the big difference is that Truman's dat is not I know, but I'm just say interestnteresting paradet is, that's the only difference between Ed TV and the Truman S showow. Well, I mean, I think Ed TV must be discussed obviously when you're talking about the Truman showhow, but it right. it's the other TV's the opposite.'s There's another there's another pleasantille All three of them were lumped together they' very different. but there's like a tapestry there because Pleasantville has the right. They sort of The American small town, like fantasy things. Pleasante was full magical like you know everyone lived in the. What if you lived in a fifties TV show? A TV is just, what if a guy allowed people to film him all the time And then Truman's show is, what if they constructed a fake reality kind of was inspired by fifty sitcoms. And that was televised on unbeknownst to this man. It was just fascinating that all three of these movies came out and it was seen as this real like what feels incredibly like naive in nineteen ninety eight, we need to reckon with how much cameras are part of our lives, not knowing how fucking insane things' going to get over the next three decades. Well, But that it felt urgent enough in nineteen ninety eight that it's like our relationship to media to watching other people's lives, to our lives, to the fifteen minutes of fame thing to all of this is hitting a crisis point And it was abstracted into like three different ts Yeah, one hundred percent. And I also think it's there's something interest interesting that A that period of time transpired, especially in television was an exploration of all of these concepts that actually took it You know, in in great ways, great directions. Perfect. in really problematic directions, obviously. Like you don't endorse the actions of television? I mean, I'm one to speak, you know what I mean? Look I'm not going to talk at a term, but I've been Jud's been known to make a TV show or two in his day But you know what I mean? Like I think what's interesting is that A lot of. projects, start with this idea of observing reality. Yeah. And the thing that people find is that reality itself can be both the most fascinating thing but also is not controllable in the ways that you want. I think that's one of the fascinating things about the seeven U series, right is that? The seven up series is not the Truman show, right? It's not necessarily. It's not on them much either. obviously. But I mean in terms of the thematic what you feel, right? Because you feel this great melancholy. There's there's there's this beauty that, you know can bring you to tears because you're seeing the the that life has these twists and turns and a lot of the beauty of it comes from the simplicity of it and the moments of calm, right? It not it's not the big you know, story moments that are the thing that make that interesting. But also like I'm someone who doesn't cry a ton at movies despite loving movies and being a very emotional person. But if I were to try to actually take a tally of all the movies that like made me shed a tear or got me within that zone I would guess a disproportionate amount of them are documentaries because there is an added juice to me of being like believe they got this. In documentaries, I feel like it hits me when I watch a documentary that doesn't feel manicured and manipulated and something happens that feels so raw and can often be a tiny moment But I'm just like the fact that this was actually the Harv Eethnography Lab which I'm obsessed with. or so one of one of A film that I put in my top ten films of all time. Big scene And it's a result of Giffin was that Griffin and I went and saw a screen of Monocomina When it came out You've talked about this on the show before I Aelese cable car movie. And honestly, it's a movie where I have not laughed as hard with an audience We all tears is this like for for something that is ten shots doing its best to observe and curate reality in some way. I brought it up before, but just to fill in the listeners because also anytime I say the name, people are like, what the fuck is the type? It called manana K mana essentially is how you would M A N A K A M A N A. Crect, whichich is it's a cable car in Nepal. They placed a camera in a cable car in Nepal that goes up and down this mount And they literally just it was months of, you know, doing trial runs and casting other people and whatever. But what you watch are just ten unbroken takes. Five trips up, five trips down. Yeah the loops of this thing. And it's one role of film, no editing, single shot And yet the curation of those ten trips. told a story about the human experience that is It still subjective because it's curating those They're trying to make it as. Exactly. But they the film Leviathan, which is also by the Sensory Ethnography Lab. is a film I like? Stanford is it Stanford Ethnography? It'sarvard's called the Sensory Ethnography.ens is the program' referring to It's led by Lucy Custing Taylor, who's very interested in all this kind of hidden camera, kind of, canan we just document life I went to see Mona Kamana because I was like, I'm hearing good things about this and I buy my ticket. I go see it and I have see by myself. and I'm three minutes in like, have I made a mistake? Was this me being high minded I'm about to be fucking bd I forget I don't like this stuff. You gotta, it's the meditative thing of like you just gota you gotta you know, give yourself over to a chill out for a minute. Yeah guys are floating in a tank? No. neverever. Yeah Yeah. So I I did isolation tank.. you go to Did you go to Vessel? Yeah. Yeah, that place is great. It was excellent. I think that how did you like it I only did thirty minutes or did you go f black? that's what was going to say. I had to kind of slowly ease into it. So I started initially with light while also having some ambient sound then rememove the light. little bit more time at the sound and then, you know, my goal was to do thirty minutes of just complete darkness, no input. It was crazy but I got into it. I got really lost. That's what Griffins talking about. sorry, finish your thought, Griffin. I see this, I totally get on its wavelength. I walk out. I have like one of the most profound like feelings leaving the theater I've ever had from a movie. What's best about? I text you almost immediately. and I'm like, Jie, I just saw this thing I need to see it again and I really think you need to see it. Can we figure out a day? We go see it again. I see it like twice in one week. And I'm there with Jie and I'm sort of like, Was what happened here collectively with this audience a one off experience? I need to test if the exact same arc of this will happen. Watch the first one, there's like no talking. And you're like, is this literally just going to be fly on the wall of people not communicating in a cable car And then I think it's the second ride. there's an old man and a little boy. What's on the poster? Yes. And like minutes into it, the entire audience all starts laughing at the same time And nothing funny has happened But it's like your brain is adjusting to what's going on and suddenly you're asking all these questions about the two of them And it's like, what is their relationship Are they like grandfather and son? Are they strangers Like how do they know each other? Have they gotten here? Are they silent because they have no familiarity with each other? Because they have profound familiarity with each other. The little boy, I think is wearing Tom and Jerry hat. Y. And you're like, wait a second, does he know what Tom and Jerry are Tuminger exists in Nepal, Why am I asking that question? What don't I know about like Nepalese's like relationships to American media? And suddenly you're projecting all this stuff onto it and asking yourself all these questions And there is just kind of the funny awkwardness of the two of them sitting there in silence And then you're like, oh right. Every movie I watch is communicating like eighty thousand things to me at once, whether intentional or unintentional The choices of the music and the image and the performance and the costuming and the set dressing and the writing and the dialogue is working like overtime to convey Dia's story feelings to me and I'm watching like two people sitting in silence and suddenly asking incredibly wide ranging questions. And that experience is kind of like, you know, you know, ghost hunters listening to static, right? whereere if you just listen to static for a long you time, you start you start to pick up on Because our life is so full of noise, you don't pick up on these little little changes. So those changes seem unusual when you focus tootally. And then like five rides in, it's like two American tourist girls And they're talking, but're you've readjusted to how you listen to people speak because you've been deprived of that And then there's a ride that's just a bunch of goats And suddenly it's the most captivating thing you've ever seen because you've met the movie on its level. And now you're like, wow. Goats interact is not that different from the way humans interact. And like we are just animals and what's the difference? Like you go into all of these places. Do you imagine Christoph being like, we're just gonna film a baby and people are like, film a baby. Well, I gota tune in to see what this is like. And then they just can't stop watching. But here's what I think is interesting and that Truman show taps in on, right Christoph is not just observing reality. No, he's not He' doing the thing that we have done through the history of media, which is we take the beauty of life that we see, which is a bunch of goats riding a cable car and instead we go, well, surely, I know how to make that better I know how to control that, whichich is do in the village, which is the history of what happened to documentary and reality TV? I mean, we're in a place right now where documentary film is in a really, really dark place because it's been it's been taken over by this sense of control and ownership We also, and this is something I've been talking to my therapists about. we make our own stories up process their own lives. The the the The way that I'm remembering things but even experiencing things, I've like built up these stories. Well also the psychological phenomenon that if you tell a story to someone about something that happened to you, your memory of the actual event is immediately replaced with the story you just told It basically overrides it So the more you tell a story of your life, the more you're actually remembering your own telling of the story which is how these things iterate We're like we were texting the other day, David in the blank check thread about Robert Altman losing best director for Gosford Park because Marie was asking, how in the world did Apollo thirteen not win bestest picture? And David and I swing in with our like, we're ready to answer this. We're thinking about this all the time, right And we're like, well, Apollo thirteen, it was like this and then that. And then of course, like Brave Hearts the sort of surprise. And it spoke to how powerful Nel Gibson was at that moment. And Marie was like, so is that why Beautiful mind won big And we were like there was definitely that element of him being overdue, but also the crow thing and this and that And then I said, remember how Robert Altman was seen as the front rununner for best Director that year for Gostford Park because it was kind of a lifetime anointment And then he made a speech at the Golden Globes that was anti busush and anti war and immediately, his campaign was tanked. And David was like, yes. I was like, yeah, that sounds right. And I hoted back a thing from it. Looked up the No, I didn't quote back I thing, but I looked then I looked up the speech and was like, no, this speech is totally normal. You said chickens come home to roost. was No no I was quoting him. I was just saying like he did didnn't he do like a chickens coming home to roost thing but that he did, but not at the Golden Gobe But like it' that And you accepted it and we're like, yeah, one hundred percent Yes, we are yes, we are our myth makers. David it's a bit of a Christoph. Wait. So what have you what have you been exploring therapy about that? I feel like you didn finish your Um, well, it's just like how I thought of myself as a kid felt like an outsider a perfect example is I have this memory of being invited to a birthday party by a cool girl Okay Okay and Lxon is king. And I felt humiliated and I still showed up, but I felt like she was taking pity on me And now I'm revisiting and I'm like What if maybe this girl was interested in me What if she actually was like kind of thought I was funny and I was so in my head and telling my own story about who I am. likeike I'm an outsider, I'm an uncool kid. Right. That was your little myth. L R. Can I ask, was she wearing a how's it going to end button And do you still have her cardig again? You keep it in your basement next to a collage You've tried to construct of her face from women's magazines taped behind a portrait of your wife. Yeah. I mean, it's normal. And of course, I'm going to pick up a wet garment When did you see the Tumman show? when you saw it in theater? I did. I assume as well. I saw it in theaters. Yeah.ah, yeah. My family and we've talked about this before, hated Jim Carerey so much. Yes. They rejected him. Fll into the classic sort of this guy's an overactor. He's so obnoxious, he's so annoying. It was like when that run of Jim Crey movies is happening where he's the dominant comedy star, they were like, we don't see Jim Crey movies sit there and watch your Steve Martin movies for the fortieth time We went to see this opening weekend My parents took my brother and I. My brother would have been six. This like it felt like a profound cultural moment E for like Jim Carey haters, it was like That's such a good idea for a movie Peter Weir is a good director And we all want to see if Jim Carerey can actually tone it down, which was so much of the marketing hook of this movie Don't you want to see if he can pull it? Im sure he's leveling up to a more serious project. Can he do it? And that moment, Hanks is kind of like the reigning king of Hollywood. Jim Carey's sort of overtaken him as the box office king But everyone's like, that's the model. Can he like speedrun the Hanks thing You saw this in theaters I soon? No, I feel like I saw this. I mean, you're probably how old were you? L because you I was bornier than me And like I feel like I was twelve when this came out, you're ten. You know what I mean? It's like at that point, that's a big difference. Well, so it's a funny thing. becausecause also Ben, I relate to what you're talking about. you know, my family moved around a lot when I was younger and then run for the law? Yeah, there was a lot of law stuff we're trying to get away from And when it finally caught up to us, we were in the suburb of Chicago And the thing that was consistent in that was that we would have these like family movie nights. And this was an era of the like video store era, right? We're all going to go to the store and we're gonna to pick one movie we can all agree on. Yes And with these or often it would be my mom or dad coming home from work with, you know, bag of the, you know, the blue plastic case VHSs and you being like, oh man, what did they get And it'd be like, well, two of these are for mom and dad, but one of these is for the kids. You might like this. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I feel like the Truman showow was a movie that we watched on probably would have been VHS at the time. And I think because of my age, The Truman Sh might have been one of the first movies that I remember watching that I was like, this is a grown up movie. Yeah. sureure. R. It's on that edge. That was another feeling of like this was released in the summer. It was like a big box office play, but I had the distinct feeling of my parents taking me to see this opening weekend. and feeling like this is the kind of movie they nominate for Oscars. Did they like it? Y parents? They did, but they were like, I still don't know about Jim Carerey They kind of were like maybe Peter Weir tricked him and some of it, he's still over the top. sure. What's so interesting is, I see this with my dad? I feel like I may have just seen this by myself. How So I know Griffin, your know you he's over there Our guest today, by the way, is JD Damato. He is the writer of the endless puck his book. The endlessist. We're holding copies of his new did we call it a middle grade graphic novel? It's a middle grade graphic novel. It's out now sort of a Scott pilgrim size. Now this is an advanced reviewer That's what your' whole thing. but I'm being told that fininal interiors will be full color Yes, it's it's so it it's whatever two hundred in color D page turnurns black and white very pleasantville Well that is this is the advanced copy only. That's the advanced reader. It' uncorreed proof. The actual the book will be it's like it's two hundred and fifty page mid grade graphic novel, full color, illustrated by the great Sophie Morrse who was an amazing illustrator. J like workutifful. What's what's What's the show? did she work on a TV show that the art stylle is from. No this is not This is her this is her debut Okay.. It's a double debut for both her and I. Simon and Schuster in stores now, available wherever you buy books Is it available digitally? It's availablectually, I don't know if it's available to digital owner. I don't believe it is. Hactile. physical, physical mia copy. It's a paperback but get a hard copy. But this is this is this is the debut. So I please please please buy a copy. Read Jadie's book. and I think buy it too. We've been getting very positive reviews and very, very positive feedback. And I think if you have If you're an adult that likes graphic novels, it works, but also if you have someone that is seven to twelve or, you know, if a voracious reader that's younger, that's fine too. I think it's a it's a very good Iro that the middle grade graphic novel space is kind of something that didn't exist when I was a kid, which is that sort of between comic books and like prose storytelling. So it's a place to sort of explore a story but not have it just be a wall of prose Alienware's back to school event is the perfect time to score top gaming gear with incredible features and Intel core processors to go beyond performance. Lord knows, I'm stressed about returning to school. You can save big on gaming desktops, laptops, and more. Start your Alienware journey with the Alienware fifteen gaming laptop featuring Intel core processors Smoothly game, live stream and multitask for hours on end. Plus, play through every game exactly how you want with customizable alien FX lighting across your alienware ecosystem, creating your very own gaming profile and more. we're talking full disclosure. Finally, pair your incredibly smooth gaming experience with immersive visuals and sound by saving on sleek alienwar, monitors, headsets and more the world deserves to know. This limited time sale awaits you now at alienware d. com slash deals. That's alienware dot com slash deals David. Yes. You got any big summer plans. If you're traveling, you got late nights, packed weekends, zero structure, any of those Keing AG one in your routine helps you stay That's a loaded word right there. consonsistent. When everything else gets and here's another loaded word unpredictable. Oh, I don't want that and I know you don't either. Look, it's a daily health drink with a multivitamin Pree N pro biotics. Yep, suuper foods and antioxidants. all stir lineup. One scoop, eight ounces of water. You just shake it. There you go. That's it. You drink it. It takes thirty seconds. I know you drink it every single day. What's your favorite flavor right now? Right now, I'm actually really big into berry. I've been cycling through them and I've really been enjoying this berry phase. I will say this as well David You said wherever you are, I'm about to go away for six weeks and you better believe I just ordered a whole box of travel packs so that I don't have to travel unarmed I had no doubt. So Visit drink AG one d. com slash check to get your free. morning person hat and free AG one flavor sampler. for that hat. In your welcome kit with your first AG one subscription. That's an eighty two dollars value. Dink that's drinkagG one d. com slash When I wear that hat, it's gonna be so ironic I don't like the mornings. No. But I love Ay onene. Yes question that I have is that I know Griffin grew up with movies and Heu movies.' talking about it constant. I would ask questions and they would explain it to me and I constantly searching for more answers. The idea of a director is not something that I even understood, I think until George Lucas or Stehven Spielberg. Sure sure know on early. What was your guy's childhood?' like Becauseuse again, in my family it was, you'd watch a movie and you'd talk about, was that a good movie? like what Was that a good movie or not? And that was kind of it. It's a good question. likeike when did I first become aware of directors or whatever. I'm not sure. My dad was very into movies, but both my parents were, but my dad was very into movies and I feel like I was so obsessed with the Oscars so I start watching the Oscars where I'm like six or seven. So it's already very present to me The idea of the director and like the people behind the movies because of that, I guess. would be the first thing But like, I saw the Truman show because of Jim Carey I definitely had not seen a Peter Weir movie Well, I say think Peter Weir and you guys are in the Peter Weir series is I feel like He is a director that through my Maybe I'dink dead poose Through my adult eyes, I can look back and go, oh my, you know, see his career. But he was not someone who was a name director. The movies were not sold on him. Not really. I mean this one sure wasn't, but that's obviously it was a Jim Crey movie. You bet and I assume also were like they were, you know, it was a big Jim Crey movie. That's why you saw it I remember having a profound Almost light coming out of the sky, reality being changed for every moment This very year, nineteen ninety eight. I My two favorite movies of ' ninety eight unquestionably would have been smallmall soldiers. And there's something about Mary Pro probablyably followed closely by a bug's life than this. I realized despite now being like so obsessed with like Joe Dante and the Fairlely brothers as directors and my idea of like, there's a sensibility now that I can track across multiple movies with these guys who I like. Paying attention to the credits in a rewatch and being like, wait, what the fuck, they didn't write these movies? Oh sure. And asking my parents like, what does a director actually do then if they're not writing it? Because in my conception up until this point, probably through seeing this movie I'm like, well, it's like Christoph. He's like whispering in a guy's ear, like, say this. It' K kindind of a classic question. what does the director? Like you're improvising a movie in real time and just going like, my ideas are perfect. Go do this, pull this, Yeah, and I think I, you know For me, I feel like I had that same experience where When I was a kid, what interested me in movies was that, you know, you got to be Skywalker that that world existed, right? And when you I understood movies were made, but I think that, you know, when you're a kid, you have this sort of fuzzy line between reality and fiction where you're like, right, get that Star Wars isn't real was they made it. So like it's real somewhere. and they're like, yeah yeah people made that. And they're like so those people get to live in that world And I feel like There's this, you know, that childlike version of your, you know, very young where you don't totally understand it That's what led me down the interest of making I need to learn more. And then I think once you actually start learning the process, it's a very tedious. detail oriented, very slow methodical process. And so I feel like For a lot of people, the people that end up in the industry are people for whom those two circles overlap for whom tedious methodical process is fulfilling in the same way that living in a fantasy world is fulfilling. It can't be to actually follow through on doing it, it can't just be an obsession with the final product. You also kind of have to be obsessed with the process. But the process has to be a match. But I think the thing that a lot of people are always in Sk of, in Sk of in search of Sk Sk of. In Sko of. the thing that people are in Sk of In Sko of is an experience that feels like you get to live in that universe. And what's interesting with the Truman show is hearing a lot of the actors talk about their experiences is that they basasically just lived in that town. And they would be shooting stuff so much and pulling things that like they got to live that experience a little bit that was Truman show esque of You never leave set, you never you're always in this universe, which is, I think part for some people that is a thing that you sort of hope for, which I think why you get Um, Christophs of the world that want to try to control these universes because there is something interesting. I know for myself as someone who grew up very anxious and very you know, having moved a lot, I just always felt like I didn't know the rules of wherever I was. And so I sort of felt like an outsider in that way. And so the idea of a limited universe where you can understand the rules feels very veryer exciting feelings It's intoxicating even. And I think that's part of what T boss P to your money right Yes, which that's what I've been trying I've been trying to figure out and get to that position.'ve and I there once. You did. You said get in that dumpster And he was like a little nicer, please, and you're like, Oh, I'm really sorry. No for the contxt cles boss. That was a beg. That was bigg and it wasn't I didn't even have the status to make that out. You bringing up Star Wars though, right? That's almost like the definitive cultural touch pointoint of now. there have been like five plus generations who talk about seeing that movie exploding kind of their consciousness in a way and having this like could I be inside of this? right? Whether or not they end up working in film in any way, it does feel like Star Wars remains this kind of like switch flip of like, wait a second, I'm trying to understand what the reality is that I'm seeing here. Well, that was the this was made. And Star Wars for me becauseuse I was like, right Okay, this is you know, being very young, being like, what is real and what is not real if I'm seeing all these puppets. Right And Star Wars is the classic you read or listen to interviews with anyone, particularly the actors who worked on the original film and are filming in like Tunisia in nineteen seventy six. and like the the space between a kid watching that and just being like, I just want to be Luke Skywalker and I want to exist in this world And then Mark Hamill being interviewed about it fifty years later and being like Everything felt ridiculous when we were doing it. Yeah. You know, like the sets ended two inches over here Darth Vader's voice is like a British bodybuilder. Everything's falling apart. We're hitting each other with sticks The reality of making something like that doesn't reflect the final feeling that you convey ono people who want to live in that world. and the world is not livable in that sense. And part of what Truman show's providing is like What if that world was created for you Isn't that actually a benevolent act? Like that's what Christop's saying is like What if I could just fine tune a reality for a person? he's right and create almost a psychological experiment to give someone the influences be a good person. He's right. like he's not, I'm not saying he's morally right, but he's like, I have created a safe world for you in which you are like, you know, your every need is taken care of. And of course I had to lie to you because if you knew about it, it would destroy your sense of f. And so you're going to leave and you're going to go into a world that's much more hostile and all that. Like he's not wrong about that, but it's like, hey, baby, this is why we live life, right? Yeah but it's also, I think that that's the thing with all this right't keep grrubby fingers off reality. And so as much as we try to Observe it, document it. No matter what, we start putting our spin on it. just ourur fingerprints alone are enough to suck. I should give it back to the bugs, Ben. So I want to answer your question I am I think differentiff than you guys Right, where for me I am not enngaging with movie and then afterwards being like, how did they make it? I'm just like this is Beautiful fantasy. I wish I could live in that fantasy. I want to pretend I want to imagine I'm in that world.efinitely was Not being like, well, how did they make it? Yeah, I'm like, how do I throw on I was also a little less how did they make it than you guys made think. what I was trying to describe is that I wasn't how do they make it at all. Yeah, you were like, I want to wasn't my dad was a college football player and that was there was no play position He was a quarterback in high school and then he was a receiver. He hated football. Sounds like a fucking chad though I mean, if I showed you if I showed you a photo What's that Big tall guy? Big tall guy. Yeah big tall strong. My dad was the sc tall strong. My dad wass his. I would say my dad was the scary dad among you know, when like I feel like group of friends are like the parent that you're like. I don't want to piss that dad off. He might be like too grumpy or stern or whatever. Yes, I know what you're talking. But my dad was also very goofy. but I only I say that not to disparage him saying he was a coge, but to say that there was There was zero I would say there was zero level of like, let's talk about the art and craft of this. and it was man It would be cool to have the spawn cape. And it wasn't until well teenage and adulthood that I got into. My parents, look, were providing that. And I was it was talking to Fantasy and he was like, it's interesting the way you talk about your' ad on the podcast and make it sound like he was disappointed that you weren't a sports kid But then yet he had like understanding and the language to talk to you in the thing that you were obsessed with And I don't want to make it sound like I was like the like, god fucking damn. hopefully the next one's a jock dynamic in my childhood. But there was that thing of like, it's not It was never his greatest passion. And my mother had like sort of defeated by trying to pursue a career in the arts at the time that like I was born There was almost a sense of like less than, I'm so happy to share our passion with you It was more like, thank God we happen to know the only fucking thing you want to talk about we can at least answer your question. You know, And like my siblings are like more savy about the industry than most kids would be because they grew up in a household where that was a language. but it truly felt like My parents were like, God, if he were just like fucking into animals and that was the only thing he wanted to talk about, we'd be fucked Yeah, I feel like For me, I grew up with parents who my dad was a reluctant college athlete who I think wished he could engage more in the weird arts and music and that I think, you know, I think that's the stuff that he was actually more interested in you know, the movies that were on the pedestal in our household were, as I've joked, The Enest movies, all the Muppet movies. My mom was a huge Star Trek fan. She was the type of kid who like she' would sit outside in her yard and like wait for the entnerprise to pick her up. like o yeah. it was like that was our That was our universe. And then, you know, we would Once a once a week or every couple weeks, you know, we'd get pizza and rent a movie and that was like, you know, sacrosainctt But J D, the only reason your father wasn't a movie guy when you were growing up is because Real Steel hadn't been made yet Yes, the Griiffin is referencing the fact that My Dad's a big guy. My stealer. I would say That's an understatement. Yes. My dad Yes. I just talked to this on podcast the Ride, but my dad did For my birthday, get me all the action figures of all the real steel robots. It's a real griff move to be like, I got you presents that thing that I like I'm gonna open it up to you guys about the Truman show because we should look at it because JJ did do all this work, I assume. Maybe he didn't. Maybe you fucking throw this one in. Can I frontload one thing? I just I want to say to Ben because I've been wanting to say this And it's like part of what's fascinating about how kind of like airtight this movie is in its world buildilding This movie is this very bizarre set of circumstances wherein And then we'll jump back to the beginning of the dos, y. nineteen ninety four, Jim Carey has his crazy year that we've talked about many times where Ace Ventura The Mask and Dumb and Dumber all come out in the same calendar year and immediately becomes the biggestar in Hollywood He is so in demand that he lines up so many projects right away. Bically by the end of ' ninety five beginning of ' ninety six has agreed to Batman forever, Ace Fentura to They're trying to get him to do mask and Dumb and dumber sequels. liar, liar, end this. Peter Weir basically knows he has Jim Carey, who is an automatic green light The studio is one hundred percent behind it, but he's not going to be able to film for like two and a half years And so rarely has someone been given this much runway to just fucking fine tune a thing before filming full stududio backing You got carry as long as you're willing to wait Before any ofvent Makes fearless it's his prior film After fearless, what do you think fearless that's dangerous. shouldheck it out. I think it would resonate with you. Major influence on David's recent sunglass purchasing. That's true there might have the jacket though. Peter Weir picks up a bad case of the attaches. It's tough Or perhaps a case of the Circles or the Mentiones. All right, JJ. JJ What is that what is that? So the attaches is basically like you make a movie people like or maybe you know, like suddenly you're attached to a bunch of stuff that never had happened. Gamil Toro has terminal attaches. Well He's shaking it a little bit, but post like Penn's labyrinth, it was so bad where he was like attached like eighteen super ambitious projects everyvery other week could you do this, you know So most serious of these is called the Playmaker based on a novel by Thomas. Canoi Kly, I can't remember I think. ye, which is about the first play ever performed in Australia in seventeen eighty nine after the year after the colony was founded U It's sort of like an Australian historical drama because post when he comes to Hollywood, he never returns to Australia really to make movies about it again And he made movies about like Australian like life and identity. Well, which I think is interesting because we're talking about so much of our discussion here is about through an American context And I feel like That's also something you can't discount about know you can't. He's but. It feels like What he never quite got to make the one more sort of like, I really want to make another movie about Australia project. This sounds like That might have been it. We talked about this in our episode with Jennifer Kent on Galiboli, but he is an interesting case of a filmmaker who feels like he has a really bifurcated career, but it's not that The second act of his career is like a disappointment And we were like, it'sort of like Fritz Lang, who has like all these insane bold German films and then goes over to Hollywood and makes great noir movies. But it does feel like kind of two distinct things. There's themes that are you can tell he's gravitating towards the same themes of these sort of a lot of the Australian films I'd never seen before There's so much dealing with the weirdness of the reality of Australia as this kind of like overtaken prison colony, you know, like building a culture on top of the Aoriginal and sort of denying it and all of that. And his movies always have this kind of like realities butting up against each other Some other stuff. He was briefly the top choice to replace Ron Howard making the Chamber, John Grisham movie. Eventually that got made by Jim Foley, Bad movie. He was attached to the alienist, which was the Caleb Carr book that was like in development health for twenty years before it turned into a like TNT miniseries. Yes. One of the ultimate attache bait projects Exactly He was, I don't know, there There's a lot of these are yeah, a lot of these are kind of variety articles. It's like Peter Weir may direct. The movie Goer, the Walker Percy novel, Mvie' fascating because so many major filmmakers have been attached. hadad Julie Robertson and Tim Robins attached. Altman was at one point going to do that. Bruce Barrisford. I don't know. Malik almost made that the movie he came out of retirement for as well, which is fascinating. Yeah. But I think he's just in that classic place where he's like a really established name who makes good movies He's looking at so many scripts and he's bored by most of them. And fearless was seen as kind of a flop but not in a way that puts him in movie jail and still gets an Oscar nomination. Yeah, but he doesn't have a weird movie. Right. He's not holding like a blank check power necessarily at that. Maybe not. the way he puts it though, when people ask what are he looking for? he'd say Im looking forro onnce I'm scared. That's that's, that's kindind of a cool way of.' chall. And he said, like all these screenplays I read, they're remakes. if even if they're not actual remakes, they feel like remakes. There's a lack of what I call unconscious writing. There's very, you know, scripture are very conscious. They're designed to please financiers Luckily, Hollywood has been cured of all of that, and none of that pervades in the industry anymore. No, it's good we fixed it. Scott Rudin sorry, Javid was holding for a bus sends him the Tuman show Andrew Nichkeol of course, who is from New Zealand people forget. So another person from that side of the globe you know, is a guy who left New Zealand in his twenties. He became a commercial director starts writing screenplays He's mostly writing screenplays to try to pin to his aspirations to direct, which jump to directing. He mostly is a director. Totally. It's just interesting that I feel like he becomes known as the incredible one sentence pitch guy. where you're like, that feels like an obvious this guy just has an endless well of ideas. But he really was just like, can I come up with hooks that are so good they have to let me do it You were going to say the best But the best thing he ever did was the Truman Show, which he didn't direct, which might weigh on you if you're Andrew Nichkell. I don't know. 'ause he made good movies and plenty of bad ones Well, we're all entirely in control of our careers at all times Absolutely Hatano's decisions Yeah. He pitched this idea to his manager in the early nineties, The Malcolm S showow, It was called back then, but it is the Truman S showow. You just have to imagine that everyone literally like fucking starts jumping up and down with that one sentence. He wrote this before he wrote Gatica, which is of course, his directorial debut, which comes out before the Truman S show. Be he wrote this first. The Truman S show period is so long off the heat of having Care attached, he's able to set up Gatica and get it made as a director before this I tell you, p, Scott Ruden buys the screenplay for a million dollars in nineteen ninety three Caramount comes aboard He does a screen test, Nickel directs a screen test withest starring Gary Oldman. He's trying to convince him he can do it They look at the screen test and they say, Andrew, you will not be getting eighty million dollars. I'm sorry to tell you this now, but like, no, we will not let you direct this This is too big for a first time director. As he puts it, I made the mistake of writing my most expensive film first, which is a good way to put it. And another example of how Hollywood has fixed itself, now they don't make the mistake of even letting a first time director do a screen test for an eighty million dollars movie. they just give two hundred million dollars to first time directors right off the bat. U the Malifinki. Yeah Joseph Kazinsky. Disney was really kind of very guilty of doing it for a while. Right Yeah U so we're so some of the people who considered Brian De Palma. Makes sense. Make sense. Voyurism. Cameras. Brian Singer, Uh oh Cameras sururveillance. David Kronenberg. Again makes sense al though you cannot imagine him being handed a big budget. The cameras are in your nipples. A Kronenberg Truman show would be Fascinating. Yeah. it would be interesting. Yeah. And the Brian Singer Truman Show would have gotten ten thousand people arrested We're It reads the script, thinks it's interesting. And it's like, I think it's too challenging. I think suspension of belief is just too challenging. Like I don't think can convince people that this would exist, which is the That is the trick with Truman's show that it kind of does like get you on board with like, yeah, yeah, this is real. And if you're off financially sustains itself, the whole thing is gonna collapse. If people are too busy getting hung up on questions that the movie can't answer, the answers aren't satisfying. But he can't get it out of his mind. Can't stop thinking about it So he says they went through fourteen drafts. Original draft is much darker In the original script, there was an innocent passenger attacked on a subway as a way to test his courage. U He has a relationship with a sex worker who he dresses up as Sylvia. likeike, you know, like they make the magazine thing more literal the original movie script that he has a drinking problem, like You know, is grimmer. And weir was just like no one would watch this show Like it's too grim. The whole point is the show needs to be attractive to people. Well alsoso beyond that, like when he pitches it to his manager, the quick log line is like Malcolm is the star of a twenty four hour continuous soap opera in the future, but he doesn't know it. He has been filmed by hidden cameras every second of his life The Malcolm showow has been running since his birth, The show has sixteen producers, all his family and friends are at actors, all the strangers that he sees in the streets are extras and And he immediately goes, obviously there should be a paranoid thriller that in New York City. R startarts writing it as and like pretty quickly even before directors are coming on Rudin is like, is that really the tone And there wass like versions of it where it's like, it's a twist that's revealed to the audience halfway through, you know, I think he just thinking of it in the most serious execution of that idea It's funny though, hearing this because reality television, the ecosystem of it, isn't it just all basically alcoholics misbehaving. Wait, what? Th guys are up to no good. They're in trouble. And' like physically attacking each other. Yeah exactly. I Like it's just so delightful that it's like, well reality television, peopleople would love to see people being nice to each other. Right An a quate little town. It's like cant be completely let's say giant pin in this. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, giant pin in this giant pin in this. But But it's also funny that like they're like they had this whole plotline where Truman is like having a sort of non physical affair with a sex worker he makes wear the cardigan of the Natasha McEllan character and like act like her so he can pretend he's still with her. And he thinks this's a dirty secret, but he doesn't know the world is like seeing him have this sort of emotional affair. And they were just sort of like, this feels like too much for the audience to be like watching W they root against Truman? And then I'm like, wasn't Scandaval the single most important thing guuesss that happen in America in the last ten years. I have so many thoughts on this. Certainly was treated that way. Anyway, gone So another giant pin Um J weir Weir starts thinking harder about like Christopf, you know, not like we've talked about this a little bit already And the vanity of this guy, how he feels like he's creating the ideal human being the true man and making a ton of money at the same time. True man, you say And so, you know, he doesn't want it to be like a poleemical movie He wants it to be an entertaining movie, which is great But I think that's the right approach. Like I think if it was too hecting, which I think is the problem with every single Andrew Nichol movie When Nickel is just in charge of it, that's the problem. What is time was money though Sim Sim one or Simone, you know, like, you know, like all these movies where I'm like pitch and then he's like, do you get my pitch? And I'm like I got your pitch. Lord of war he's made of bullets. Like, you know, just Andrew, quiet. This is why I'm like pin pointing spotlighting thriller thing, right? Yeah is that like all of his movies he directs, I like Attico a lot. Gattac is his best movie Right obviously. Yeah. But otherwise you're like what an incredible concept and G kindiff have the exact wrong approach to what the most interesting version of that story is. The concept is like so powerful and then like dramatically he's like attacking it from the wrong angle. and it's not like he's always taking the same wrong approach It just always feels like his direction was off. And I think This is one of the best examples of Good Hollywood development This is the rare case of every starting idea Powerful but off Every choice they make off of that massaging it for three years is like what fixes it. Well, there's a funny meta thing too, because like the discussion you're having right now about that is like, in its own way, a play acting of the discussion TV executives might have over the development of a show like the Truman show And what's, I think interesting is that no matter how much you try to put a veneer of like, no, no, no, no, it can't be that. It has to be we have to we have to make it happy and good. whatever, as we discussed the beginning of this, like will find, you know, life, life's going to find a way through the cracks of whatever you try to patch over. Okay, Ian Malcolm Okay, you've called me Ian Malcolm so many times. You have a five o'clock shout. He's calling kind of an Ian Malcolm thing going on right now. Well, listen, Lanky, handsome. I just don't understand why you keep calling me Dennis Nedry. Yes, I'm wearing a raincoat and I'm covered in dinosaur ink all over my face. Yes. You're wet for no reason. Scott Ron. Stay away from me. Before Scott Roodon even starts talking to Peter Weare ' circlingine carriry. But then he does say to weird Lg L. You might not know who Jim Carerey is and weirre is like no, no, no. I like Jim Carey. It would be funny for me here weir to be like, I've never heard of this. Well I think Scott Rudan because remember, it's the earlier nineties. I think Scott Ruden iss thking like you're too cass to have seen like a centurer, right? I mean, like sorry, you're not like that movie's too crass for you. But it's also it's like within that when he right floating h Like is that guy paying attention to like what are seen as juvenile comedies As Peter was quoteer to quote Peter. Okay I'd seen a poster in the video store of Ice Menturer And I like the look of the guy in it I senseed an energy I was to see in the film. He says four minutes into Sentura It was apparent this man was remarkable. And I thought, how fascinating he's interested in the Truman showow likeike I guess he's basically like he's got live energy I want to tap. I imagine that Peter We were staring at a poster of Jim Cerry talking through his butt. The poster of Ace Peterw him holding up the card The big card. The first four minutes of Aceentur, which are one of the best parts in the movie is him whereiz him with the box. Yeah. if you remember the fake there's some stuff In the opening in the opening there's some rough stuff. Wait really? I re watchatched it. I mean, I can't remember. I just remember rewatching it and the first four minutes going. Interesting. The box I remember just that's just like pure carry comedy' so good.s It's him going full bo there' clog j up from the client, like come on, what are you talking about? There's just a handful. Yeah. listen, who knows. Why I like the A Vventurea now is because it's such a dark, nasty movie. It's so weird. Like it is and like it doesn't, yes, it's problematic It's like a movie without flaw, as weve established We're on the same're like I can't believe this was a four quadrant hit 'use it's like a nasty movie. Yes. and I'm sure I little ine year old loved it. And like all the nasty shit just flew right over my head. like truly. They made a Sunday cartoon out of it. They did It was a Saturday morning. They wouldn't put it on the Lord's Day. Yeah, That doesn't belong there. You're right. Heast needs his own day. I mean, this is the other stupid sty I love to bring up when we talk about how big Care's ninety five was He has three ginormous hits in one calendar year Three of which were so big that a year later they all have Saturday morning cartoons. There was Mask, Dumb and Dumber and Asfentura cartoons airing simultanously on three different networks I truly challenge our listeners to clip out the amount of times Griff has said that on this. I hope it's a five times lot. What's the last movie What's the last movie the last Oh, that's it. Yeah. right. The last movie, the last adult movie did become Saturday morning cartoon. You know, not becausecause obviously I'm not gonna to count like boss baby or like whatever. boss. Hurday morning Cartoon basically doesn't ex It kind of doesn't exist anywhere.ight I would say the answer is Netflix did do like sixty episodes of a terrible CGI fast and furious cartoon Another thing Griffins brought up, I would like people to clip out several times. I'm very disappointed with that show. I wish they had brought me in. I had a lot of big ideas. So Peter Weir' interested in Jim Carerey, you know says he's like a wicked naughty boy in a man's body. He has a real electricity that could crack glass. I mean, that's all interesting. You're like surprising. And then what? suddenly becomes clear perfectly fits vocabulary I've just been gifted Ace Venter are a bit of alericate U is Jim Carey bit of an American lurican. Larrican to be clear, J K in case you don't, JT JT JD. Jie. I thought he said J King, which J King Well, there's only one thinging and it's sort of man Aalian word for like a rascal. L kind of like a Nar do well. Jennifer Kent told us and now I'm going to use it the way Nick Weager uses inachka That's great I love it. So first meeting Jim's kind of nervous. and so he says, let's go to the bathroom and fuck around and he does the soap thing. No like Crie's like you know, how normal meeting goes. Hey, let's go to the bathroom with fun around. Carry pitches stuff. Weird pitches Care like, I think your character would be doing weird things in the mirror. And Crie's like, okay, and they go to the bathroom mirror and he does the soap thing I walk in I'm watching deleted scenes. Ben goes, man, this is why you hire Jim Carerey here. And it's just raw footage of him doing extra mirror stuff. And I'm like, Ben, literally, I'll tell you on Mike But it was the first thing Carrie came up with. and like shows him in Ral signs. Yeah. There's the thing in here that weir said that makes so much fucking sense to me beyond just like the energy and his talent and his box off his viability, but that he's like there is a kind of like uncanniness to Jim Carey feels kind of like a fake person Even if you tell him to tone down the theatrics, it feels like someone doing an impression of a normal guy whichich I think is why this is such an excellent firstirst for A into non primarily comedic acting work for Jim Carerey is because Truman Burbank's a weird gu He's not a normal guy. No, how could he be really? Exactly. And so any inconsistencies in the performance that feel sort of like a little a little extra fit right in with this character, which is why it's like a perfect casting is because he can be Jim Carerey and bring that Jim Carerey energy And you're like, yeah, that's how that's how a kid who grew up. in a weird nineteen fifties on TV All the time universe would act and behave. And so it fits right into the pocket of excellent performance because even if he veers into Jim Carerey stuff, you're like, yeah, Truman Burank's a weird guy. Jim Carey is also just like a pek kind of raised by TV guy, right? Like not not he talks a lot about his parents. It's not like they were absentee, but it, you know, it's like that generation of people who were just like, we learned the world through media. We had more media than anyone had ever had before And here's a guy who like becomes a comedian getting up on stage and doing impressions of like seventy different actors and making his name off of that, he's clearly in this loop of like, referencing and warping the media he grew up in And yeah, it's like what we're smart about is, you know, I'm fascinated by like, time a comedian tries a big dramatic performance for the first time, especially if it's not like We're going to put like John Candy in one scene of JFK. It's like still a vehicle. people who survive that translation, people who don't, is that often I think a steady hand behind them comedians will just be like, got it. I just need to turn down the energy And then people are just boring, right? Sure. They're like Well, I need to play it serious and then they just like crank their motor down to one and then they're just kind of giving a sleepy performance because they're so secre. It's the ultimate example where I'm just like all I don't I think he's a very good actor. But it feels like he's self conscious about not letting the comedy creep into his performances anymore Whereas like Little Miss Sunshine is like to me, an excellent dramatic performance where he's recognizing that that guy has humor in him as a person without being a sketch character And Truman is like, such a smart use of him where it's like you're not taking Care's energy away, you're sort of redirecting it. Well, I also think we're going to start seeing that lesson less because period of time where as we're discusing comy is egal Cedy is illegal. Yeah, that's what I'm at. Yeah. No, but it's what we're discussing before this, which is the state of the television film industry is such that Being in a movie or on a TV show is not a life changing step up in your career. And for a lot of comedians, especially It's actually more of a fun thing they do on the side. is separate from the thing that actually makes them their money and is their main career because you know, there was a period of time in the nineties where it was like you know, the dream was you're this comedian who has this comedy career and then you get absorbed into the mainstream world of film and television and now you're on Ey Street and now you're like a big celebrity and you know, that's turned on his head. I think I think if anything, that exploration to film and TV is more of like a side hobby or an exploration more than it's a a chance to level up because for a lot of comedians, they're they they make a better live in doing the thing that they do. But right, which can be any number of things. But like the a list thing too of and they're like two, three people left who have this, I would say, where it's like every year I am making one big chess move on the board I am thinking thoroughly about the weight of And that represents like this is the Jim Carerey movie of this year And people are waiting and is it going to be building on what we already like from the guy? orr is it going to be a subversion? And like part of the whole like weird cable guy backlash was people being like I don't like this darkness put on top of mananic Cry. and it's like, got it gotta got it. We' switching liar, liar, Scary part is gone. He's just doing funny stuff. And so it is part of like this movie being announced of like Carry wants to like do something different. Everyone is leaning in to see what that is. It means something rather than like Jason Bateman has done like four different TV shows where he plays a psychopath And it's never treated as like holy shit, Jason Babman went dark it's Well, yes. but I don't think there's a single person who could do that today and it would be mind blowing. And part of that is we don't have there's no one like a list comedy movie stars. right It's interesting because you're right. It's not even back then it wasn't even oh, you're a standup, you're a this and you're going into movie TVs. He was a comedic movie star. comedic mov start changing genres, but he's a very fresh one Like as much, you know, so he's still pretty fresh. It's it's this is this first batch. likeike ninety five is this weird like parallel thinking the industry is like coalescing around him as No ninety four Sorry, thank you ninety five is Bm good scripts. This guy's talented. He doesn't cost much And suddenly all of those movies like hit, right And then right, this lineup of like things that are him trying to test like, okay, every move I make now is going to have the eyes of the world on it. little bit. Well, ninety five is bad and forever when nature calls When nature calls, he's like, I don't want that to happen to me again. No more sequels. That wass out a mask and dumb and dumber two.ight. Cable guy. People don't like it that much bit of a cult hit He does lie or liar. He becomes the first twenty million dollar star in Hollywood. He becomes the symbol of the top of the pyramid, the guy who yeah is covering half the budget salary. Ber We have to admit it a. It I to feel like he baree to us David He barely ever lies in that movie. David can't lie. David barely ever lies. Trust me. Trust him. trust me We're doing the Your honor, I object. Why? for what reason? becausecause it's devastating to my case. That's my favorite joke and liear liar. Like And he's so good at all that shit. like the he's compelled to say the truth shit. I feel like we've talked about this and I mean, if we've done it before on the podcast, but like Especially in the like ear he says oververruled and he goes c. Yeah. Especially in the early two thousands, there's lines from trailers that are stuck in my mind and that's one of them is I feel like there is a trailer where that line pops up There's also like the one that I always love referencing is the like you put the wrong and fastest on the Ron Salllabable which is a movie that like pause listeners. I mean, I think blank check listeners will know, but like the average person's like, I know that line, but what what movie is that from? And you're like, Bruno Burtto's a view from the top, obviously. Yeah a view from the top. d Yeah. The golden age of trailers. But that that's another example of like, that's not a holy shit. they struck like gold Truman show like deep premise the second America was told Here's the movie. Jim Cery can't lie. He was a lawyer And he can't lie. People what lawyers do. Oh my God. They were sending money to the theater in advance. It was that's all I need to hear. Yeah. I can fill in the blanks. He's just gonna to do shit for ninety minutes He can't w. But then what happens if he gets a speeding tip? Oh my God Surely in that situation, she'd lie. I like that they were like, everyveryone loves Jim Carerey first his physical comedy this movie is premised on a verbal trait and they were like, donon't worry. Am I crazy that there's like three movies of that with him that are like, it's like that, me, myself and Irene. Crect. And then there's another man. Yeses are like All very like I can't say no, he's got. Yes man sucks because Yes Yes Man does suck. Yes manan is like there's a guru. I think it's Tern Stamp. Yeah, who he's just like listening to book That's like philosophy and he's like I'm gonna do that y. Like what's good about me, myself and Irene, which is a flawed movie, but I don't like that movie. Right. But like the physical comedy is strong because it's like it is beyond his control. What's happening And Carery can play that very funny. Like that's what he's always been good at. His performance his body is overtaken Right Be, you know, me myself and Irene is like it's a nuanced portrayal of split personality. Y, right. Yeah. It was a nice one and a mean one. Disassociative identity disorder. Its Charlie and pink is not a knife. Okay wait. And the premise of Yes manan is that this is like more of like a self help thing that he's doing. He goes to a self help seminar. This guy wrote a book on the power of Yes and he's like, I'm gonna do that. And then the rest of the movie, everyone's like, just stop And he's like, no Well I guess he says he refuses to the movie stops, right there. Okay.'s there's a point in Yes Man where he's gotten himself into like immense legal trouble and his best friend is Bradley Cooper, who's a lawyer. and he has to show up and say I'm sorry He made this stupid deal with himself that he's gonna to say yes to everything. And remind me the liar liar, what's the magical? It's like a birthdayon. It's a birthday I wish when he blows out the candles on his birthday cake. who that his father didn't attend His father said, off course I'll be there Well he says for I wish for one day, my, you know, my dad couldn Okay, I got a pitch.ad He goes this self help somemonar This is going to be my year of yes as he is startarting that journey, suddenly handandles go out. He gets lie or liar in the middle of the year of yes. Yeah. You're like, what's this man can only say yes to things and he cannot lie. So he's saying no to everything. So it's it's chaos is going unfold. He doesn't want to say. You're like, It couldn't get any crazier than this. And what does he see on the ground? What a green mask? Oh my God. what happens when the mask can't lie can't say no This is really good What would it be called It would be called No honestly No honestly, smoke it. That's what he that's his catchphrase. I'm All right, okay, okay. everyveryone sh. Steve C Hey, why did this make you were? Because we're so off the rails and why did this make We' good. good. Jerry, I want to say this Okay. I think this is important. Yeah. Carry's biggest inspiration for his performance in the Truman Show. is his father, who he says was very much like that, the kind of like Hi, how are you, you know, starts laughing before like you even tell him how things are doing. That kind of like a mega friendly ray of sunshine affable kind of guy. He said, his whole family are like, Are you're doing deb Yeah, he almost drowned in the water tank.. That's a big part of the lore of this movie. What he did and that was when they replaced him with the first Jim Carey clone. Rightact who runs from ninety nine recently two thousand. We're not quite sure when, right? Hoppers was a new guy. Yeah. Yeah. It was really And he was settling in. That was was not well Hoppperers is like the Bond who did one and then was Hoppers is who fucking chuck this one out didn work I Originally cast as Christop, as Griffin noted as Denis Hopper Very different energy. Very to imagine like Hopper. C on, you fucking assholes, like just screaming at everyone. Truban, talk. you can hear me. Weir to hear you. Weir says I cast him before I really had an idea of who Christoph was gonna be When, you know, by the time he came to filming, differences arose is how he put it. He says that Dennis was of Dennis Hopper. But says that Dennis was understanding and gracious. Hopper did film. I think so. I mean they started filming. Yeah. Yeah Released the Hopper Cut. He toed we are toed with playing the role himself, which is really interesting Be he's like as director, it did kind of occur to me that like there's like that kind of go complex would have been. fascin. It's also the O director hasn't wanted to say Q the Sun is what is I mean is Joe. There is there is yes. The surprising thing about Weirir that we found is that he like basically started in sketch comedy Yeah, he did. It's because in Australia, that seemed to be the only way to do anything in the seventies. we going to say? Well it's funny because I'm not that, I wasn't that tapped into Peter Weir in his whole life and universe. And the more I heard about it, I was like I was like is this kind of the is Peter Weird kind of the career that I wish that I could show It doesn't sound like he O of course he's one of the most incredible directors. It doesn't sound like he ever had like designs on performing professionally, but it does sound like he was performing as much in comedy as you were at like around the UCB and everything. And then so you're like you have to imagine there's some innate ability he would have to just kind of like hold the camera. He's also so fascinating in interviews. Like he does have such an interesting energy. Good energy. But it's the Totsie thing The Tutsy dynamic where Hoffman like begged a fucking Sdney Pollock to play his agent. because he was like, I want to have these scenes be with someone who actually holds power over me And we're live from the living room as Doug eyes up the match they spread. He's reaching for the buuffalo wing. Perfect Hang on, what's this? Oh, he's good for C of Pepsi too. Incredible What's a finish Sensational combination. Look at the delight on his face. There's no doubt about it. He just tastes better. Match days deserve Pepsi. Food deserves Pepsi. Grab a pack of Pepsi Zero suugar for today's match Poetry in motion We are wanted on Alda after Hover gets fired, which more matches obviously what they're going for Christoph. Sherry Lansing, who ran Universal at the time, I assume wanted a bigger star Ed Harris is is paramount Is it paramount? Yeah, it is param. l param.'sing like. Yeah, sorry,arama And Harris, it is truly like he's like, I like got a phone call on Friday. I started working on Monday. You know, like incredible in this. It's obviously it's an incredible performance. One of his best performances? It is. he probably should have won the Oscar. I was thinking the same thing. Is this the Coburn year? It's the Kevin This basically is the first, it's the Courn year, which is, you know Honestly, affliciction is a bit of a forgotten movie. Coburn is good in it Obviously, Coborurn was a well known, you know, like it's a bit of a career reward, but he's really good in that movie And he doesn't make many films after that James Courn. Yes. No, he was he was a elderly, you know, he was he was on the on the way out. I'm saying it was like there wasn't like three years later be another chance to give it to him. The other thing I know, but look, this is so rude of me to say because James Con's a good actor. James Coverurn is not the level of actor where I'm like he had to have an before he died. I agree with you. I also think Ed Harris was in this zone at in time where people were like Gilvin He's going to win like any day now. and then it's like he hasn't been nominated in over twenty years, close to twenty five U But in the nineties in he got two thousand four noms total because it's it's so it's apoll of thirteen before this, which I also should have won for. Truman hours Pollock Th then Truman, then Pollock then the hours. Yeah. The hours I don't like that performance very much. The others He's an arguable winner every time that's when I interviewed him, he looked like Christopfen was so scary. nototoriously one of the scariest men. What's the most sccared you've been in an interview? Got one. Without aout I was scared to interview because I've always heard how scary he is. Uniformly everyone says he is like the most int It's also just like he's got Ed Harrod like energ super super super scious. If you're like a PA and they go like, hey, can you tell Ed we're like five minutes away from camera up They're like shivering Just because you have to walk up to thata What's your interview for play? Like how when someone's I just like caress the thigh, you know, and then I just kind of I'm like, is this okay? And then I sort of start to No, you said for playay, I don't know. was I just ch chat And like Ed Haris was not interested in chit chatting with me, but he wasn'tude. He was fine Luckily, Aaron Sorkin was also there who likes to talk Gap gap,,ap, g. But like all of the ananwers were interesting and he was super chill. He just looked like Christopo. Do you write down like a little hack before you do an interview? I write down questions that I can refer to if I get stuck. because I was going to say, sometimes if you get scared, You' just like when a piece of paper you're like o Okay, here's the question that Y. But I find that Um so I'm like that makes people like uncomfortable jump out the window. How does you feel like that would make Ed Harris bite your head off? Possibly What were you interviewing him for with Sorkin Mockingird. Oh, bir. I was interviewing them to work at my dunk of donoughuts. It I It' a Folton Street that's something that people don't know about David. He does have a dunk donut. does. I do have a dunk of donoughut. He won't one. It was for Harris was taking over from Jeff Daniels and to kill a mockingbird And they pitched me on, like, can you interview Sorkin and Harris about like the process of him playing Atticus And I was like voc bird I was like, yeah, moving. Fram out a M bird I was like, honestly, I just want to interview them so sure We did rock because we were at the theater, which is one of the greatest you know, one of the biggest theaters on Broadway And it was empty. and Sorkin comes out first and then he's like, cheheck this out. and we walk over. I've said this before on the podcast, I think the little step because people com in through the audience in that play and in many plays, the tiny little step that gets you from the audience to the stage, that's like Half your foot max And he was just like, really not fucking fall on this? And then like we get up on the stage and he's walking around and he was just so energetic and like excited about theater, whichich was cool. And he had just finished shooting Chicago seven Oh, sure U And so he was talking to Ed Harris about that a lot Because it was like he was coming back because he's not on, you know, the play was running Harris was the one who was like getting into and he played Atica Finch like a terrifing motherfucker It was a weird performance. It wasn't bad But it was definitely not like Gregory Peck ennergy. I would give Harris best supportorting actor for a Pa thirteen, which is one of my favorite screen performances of all time. I mean, the problem is he's incredible. It's what you're saying He would have been a good win in any of those four years. Pbably and he was in Borderline auto nomination territory where it's like we're going to have so many chances to give it to him and there're kept being some kind of emotional choice above him And now I I not these take it for granted, but I think people like almost autocorrect and assume he won an Oscar twenty years ago. The weird Cburn stat is that he had like debilitating arthritis and basically disappeared for all of the eighties and then found some miracle cure and comes back in the nineties and there was a big emotional kind of like Coburn's back. now he's like a steady Elder state' been supporting hand Now he's given this like dramatic showcase role But he I mean, Coburn won zero precursors Ed Harris was not even nominated for the sag. likeike it was a weird supporting actor feel. I should dig in. I shouldig again. But he did lose and he shouldn't have lost I think it should have been him or Billy Bob, but Billy Bob had just won an Oscar But Billy Bobs obviously. Amazing in a simple plan, which is that year as well Um, I don't know. he You know what? I'm sorry, Golden Globes gave it to Ed Harris Sag gave it to Robert DeVal for a civil action. a performance. And then the Academy gives it to James Cobra. Laura Lenney he'd seen we had seen her in prrimal fear which she's very good in and she did an incredible audition. Obviously La having Laura Linny in this role is just like having like fucking Tim Duncan on the like ninety ninth verse or whatever. where you're just like, well, we just got her early. L being that like seeing this movie as a nine year old, the amount of actors I'm exposed to for the first time where I'm just like, well, these are people who aren't in movies for children I'm seeing Laura Linney and Paul Giamati and Holland Taylor and Noah Emrick All these fucking like heavyweights and like character actor greats who I love who I just still kind of associate with like Laura Linney. Yeahah, of course, the wife from the Truman showow. Well, I was watching that behind the scenes featurep thing. And one of the things I think is fascinating that comes through in the performance, but until you hear her talk about it, I did not zero in on is that Peter Weir wrote for Christop an entire sort of like backstory and history of Christoph. And then he had the actors for themselves come up with their own backstories. And her backstory was that her the actress that she was portraying that you know, was cast to be on the Truman showow. was like a like a I can tell you, I have it here, but you're on it fail child actress, someone who always wanted to play Annie and never got to play Annie. had become like an Oprah que kind of shrewd businesswoman who is like really behind the product placement stuff. Yeah, who she said like in her mind in between when she was on the show, she would be at like a conference room. working with people to like deal figure out product placement and all this stuff. She was like a business person for. She basically like secures her position as you are the permanent Truman wife through selling her value to the show in all these other ways and being like so locked in on the whole business model in a way. Or like the flip where she uses that role to then become a huge like person, you know, a product spokesperson. I mean, she just plays it like a living animatronic. It's so good. Yeah it's just so unreal. I also love that the movie opens with like the opening credits to the Truman show, the show rather than the movie. and we're watching these direct address statements and you're like seeing how kind of pretentious she is art of what she's accomplishing. And you're like there's this innate sadness to you being like It's the greatest role of all time. and being like, you don't have a life. What are you talking about? You're like in a loveless marriage. And she kind of doesn't or even really like Truman. No she knows he. She knows he knows she hates him. Right, which is to that scene that we're talking about that's so disconcerting is it this the first time you see her mask drop where she's like, she's not concerned about him She's concerned about herself first and foremost and this whole thing and that's why she'ss will him. you would tell him he was on a TV show. Yes exxactly. L it's right away. It's not to not to justify the action, but part of what drives him is that he's increasingly like there is no universe in what is happening. isn't also that you're not also a party to what you have to be a part of it, which makes it even scarier. I mean, the thing that we never actually see him confront totally is that Noah Emmerick is part of it whichich is the most devastating because he has this speech where he's like, I've been your best friend since we're seven years old. And that was it is the most chilling thing. And that was his character story.. He was like a child actor. R who then got cast in this role and because I kept extending it, he kept becoming right was his best friend. like And it's actually more villainous in a way that he is you unwilling to drop that and in fact weaponiz it against Rumom at some point. Like at least at Laura Linny, she immediately the moment things get weird, she's like, I'm out, I'm done. this unprofessional. I can't work like this. would I would say things got weird before, such as when she married him and lives with him every day. You we them and It's just it's so crazy. And clearly iss like, if I'm going to get pregnant, you better fuckking Well, that's what she says and the thing is she's like she's like in my mind every time I sleep with him, I getay a pay bumb. Right. The way you're describing her character, I just wanted to say is sort of like an influencer Yeah like like a right like in in the nineties shopping channel kind of way. S. Yeah, sure But I also think the No Emra character, what's fascinating is that like he's a little tragic and that it does feel like these lines are genuinely blurred for him. Whereas she's like, this is a role I'm playing and I'll cross my fingers when we kiss at the altar I think Noah Emmerrick would be like Truman, of course is my best friend. because Well because And because it seems like in the world of this film He was with Truman since they were like, correct op Whereas she was cast into the role when they were li when they the team were It so hard to be like, how do I pop here? You know? But mean the high school, the marching band. Right, Maybe it's late high school. But like the idea is Natasha Macklhone is an extra who falls in love with him, but of course anyone who actually liked him, again, would be like, well, I have to take care of you. And the first thing we're gonna do is get you off of the Truman show. Yes. which is Well they have to find someone who's you know, at cross purposes with him. Which is why this movie is so good is becausecause we're able to have this discussion within the bounds of its reality And for a lot of movies, the moment you start discussing it like this, it falls apart because you're like, well, you take some leaps of logic. ye. it's so fun because you can talk about it with such I think you have to make leaps of logic on of course this would not be you could not W wouldn't be financially viable. I think that's a leap of logic you can make and it's partly satirical anyway, the whole idea of like you can see it from space, orate you know What I love the most about the Truman show is that the audience Watches and loves it. but is rooting for him to escape it at the end because that is what like watching sports is or watching almost any reality TV is where you're like, this is great and it entertains me And then when like the scales start to fall off and people are like, I don't like this. People are like, I love that you're saying that Like Alyssa Luis now winning the Olympic medal, which I have watched her skate many times and cried. I don't know what's going on with me where she's like, I love that I did that and it was great, but this this this world sucks And I quit it because it was so horrible. L and I wasn't allowed to like drink water because of water weight And people are like, we love that you're doing that. We also love watching you skate I don't know how to reconcile those two things. I love Truman. I love watching Truman love I want him to overthrow though. like this last Olympic runound basically had the Truman walking through the door moment. Tally. What if I do it my way? I'll try to do it my way. I would like to believe that's exactly what she did. It seems like it is. But I think that's the aspirational beauty of the Truman show, right? Is that it represents this thing even within the even within the fictional construct of what the show represents within the fictional world that it exists is this idea that We all live in this life that part of what we seek in media sometimes is the idea that maybe we're going to be able to overcome whatever our whatever the boxes that we are put into. And so like we just keep trying to find these boxes and see people overcome them in some way. And so evenven if you find escapism in the comfort of Truman, the fact that he's trying to escape becomes something that you're like, well, that's also engaging to me because I also want or hope or believe that my life is larger than whatever this My version of a town square is. It is it is part of the like developed backstory thing. but I also people have said it was part of the script at one point, like it was developed into the film proper. But the Noah Emrich character, his sort of established backstory is that this guy has had a years long drinking problem. largely because of the guilt how he is being used to contain Truman And that like part of his job being like, I have to fill vending machines around the world was that he'd have to like be justified to disappear for rehab trips and things like that? But's also that there's this married thing that he's used as a mechanism to sell beer for the show. Of course. So that there's kind of like the running segment of what when Truman needs like a trusty ear Of course, Lewis is going to show up with a six pack, which then becomes like a part of their behavioral mechanism where he's over drinking to deal with the guilt over the advice he gives Truman that is actually Christoph in an earpiece. So then he needs to get like rehab off of the show and then continue selling beer to an audience. And this is what I think is great about Peter Weir, right Is there some people that would put all of that into the movie And we' allows a lot of this stuff. and I' this is Yeah to just be supoken or thought about. I mean, like there's the line that I love like parsing this movie because I've seen it so so, so many times where It talks about remember when I got pneumonia And everyone's like, yeah, you were out of school for a month And they're laughing about it and you don't notice it the But like then you're like ing he was out of school for month, and you're like, oh, that was for some some you know, extra reality reason, right? And it's just shit like that. But then when I was so when I first saw this movie When the rain falls on Truman in a column for it kicks off, right One of his many moments of like reality is not right Obviously, the first one is the light falling from the ceiling. Yeah, whichich happens less than three minutes into the right moie. Right away. It is a st. Yeah, bigig pin. So many pins. I immediately start being like, well, why can't they just raise Truman to think that rain falls in a column And why can't they train him to think that like, yeah, there's lights in the sky that might fall down or whatever. Like why can't they just and then like As I grow older, I'm like, right becausecause then we wouldn't like the show. The show needs to reflect reality Be it's not for Truman. None of this was for Truman.. This was all for everyone else. Yeah. because like if he was just taught in school, like, well, rainfalls in a column and you can't get on boats, like and you can't leave your town. people would just like, you know, whatever. it just would break the way that people experience him. It's also like our relationship to this movie, which is like the buy in, the suspension of disbelief, right? Like what are the questions you need to answer, the things you need to explain to get people to accept the rules of your universe And this is such an excellent example of gives you a satisfying answer for just what you need to be able to engage with the story. And it's really smart about when it does, not like info dumps, but like how it distributes the information. So you don't have to deal with thirty minutes of explanation. You don't have to deal with the last thirty minutes is just uncovering everything Also answers it gives are so satisfying and are so often like, show don't tell that you start to be able to just infer, you can fill in the blanks. And more than anything, you can tell that there are internal answers that they don't feel the need to communicate to you. Well, like one thing that I was watching it the second time last night is I was like Oh, how much of the cameras are justified Right? How much is how much is an omnisent camera that is the movie's movie and how much is it just justified within the Truman show? Yeah mostostly all in the world of the Truman show. I think other than when it goes to like, you know, Christoph and people watching on TV and whatever, in past times, I'd heard Weir say that was a big thing that he like tried to design the coverage of where the cameras would be And previous times I've watched this movie, I'm like, well the obvious shots were clearly. That's a weird angle. That's a hidden camera. You see the obstruction of a leaf in front of it or whatever Now watching it this time, I'm like, I think basically every single setup within the bubble of the Truman showow one hundred percent is a very specifically justified camera angle, even down to when it feels like the movie is doing more traditional coverage That is coverage in what would be the main locations of his life in the setups where they would have to invest the time and energy and technology to get a really high quality unobstructed two shot. Well they they show the trick off and one of the first interactions when the neighbor comes up and talks to him is that they have a tracking shot, that's sort of this handheld tracking shot that walks up to Tum and he's getting into his car. And in my brain, I'm like, well, of course they wouldn't have tracking shots. And then they obviously cut to the reverse and you see him holding up a trash can with clearly a big lens that's very obvious on it Teach the audience, hey These are always going to be justified. And then throughout this like I remember there was the scene where he's running through the hospital and I was kind of like, I was like, all right, well, here's one place where they're kind of stretching the credulility of that because he's running and there's a camera following him. And then they cut to a lady a nurse running behind him and you're like, right? there's there' And there's cameras in all their clothes essentially. Yes. And you can tell they just took the time Yeah for every shot to go even if they go, we want this cover to go, okay, but how would we justify that with this? And then they they put it in there in some way, which is such great When he's in his home, it can be as polished as like friends. because they've refined that. Yes. And when he gets into wilder environments, they're improvising, you know, they're like manipulating things. But you start to see the recurring design element of what are clearly the hidden cameras, which are like these black Doms which are in the like the lining of the buildings, the houses on the street, the signposts. You know, they're like all over. like someone's ring, there's one moment where Right. How are they getting the sound Everyone's miked as well. It's all ADR U That's so true. The Truman S show air like at a five minute delay And it's like, hi I'm Druman. Yeah. You probably just have booms hidden all over Yeah. you can just do you can just do directional mies. away pointing you know exere. Yeah. So you just get total coverage Seaside, Florida is this creepy crazy town where they filmed it, obviously, which is a town that was basically built in the nineteen eighties to look like a quote traditional community, It producce Matt Gates who lived in the house that Truman lives in, Lve It makes you happy Well like you ending about him Well I think it's actually a very interesting Cultural. I don't even know how how to describe it. Go off. The fact that That is the childhood home of a famous infamous Republican Fous is politician. Yeah. A lot of different words you could say here. Yes. and I'm I'm, you know, I exactly. So I think it's actually very interesting because The whole point of the Truman show is that it's this closed universe that is controlled to make peopleeople in it believe or one person in it, believe that the world exists in a very specific way and Obviously, we know that You know, there's a certain positive aspiration of the idea of someone like Truman going out in the real world and now he's going to get to see what real life is like. But that's actually going to be a very pretty traumatic process. I think he's going to be okay whichve I've thought about this a lot over the years because Natasha Eleham' is going to get him. Like and because I used to think like, oh, he's so fucked. What? he's going to walk out immediately some agent will approach him. some, you know, like, And then I remember like, no, I forget that like we're being shown Natasha is going to get him and she knows him and she knows what's going to happen. She knows the real world and she knows his world And she's going to be the bridge that will, I think make him a. Yes, but it's going to be like I hear all that It'll be sure. Yeah. I'm just saying like it's a very fundamental thing to me in the movie that we're that their journeys are intercut. All that aside. I think there are strings that you could between someone growing up in an environment like Seaside Florida. That is Truman show As that then holds beliefs that are very Extreme and maybe don't interact with the full diversity of life as it unfolds in the rest of thery. li places like. Disconnected from most people's reality.. Yes. And I wanted a Norman Rockwell ight real, right? Like I mean, that's what they were like Yeah. And I guess my point is like,, of course that's where someone like that came come from. right? Like of course that's that's that's one of the issues that we have, right is that you can grow up in these bubbles where you see the world in a very specific point of view. And then when you get into the real world and that's different, right then this thing that has been constructed to make you believe that this is the the utopian idyllic life. Yeah, there's there's going to be people who react to that different ways and some of them it is through You know, I think Matic is he's doing good Seems really balanced to me. All right, Well, that's David's Hymss of the Atlantic. I'm gonna say that I don't endorse him. The funniest thing about Mat Gates to me is that Trump like, you know, has violated every norman existence and appointed psychopaths and like he was like, what about Matt Gates Demone was like, buddy. And he was like,, all right, not Matt Gates. That's line. That's too far. Like the old one. I don't know. there's there's something There's something interesting about the fact that that's the home that like I think it's interesting. I think we should move on. Yeah, I agree. I just say I just start the threreat of like, I know this jumping to the end of the movie, but like is he going to be okay I was thinking about jury Duty while watching this, which we were talking about right before recording, right? And how they have a second season coming out and it's one of those like Could they possibly pull that off a second time? But everyone who worked on that show talked about that they like shot it two times before it worked Like I think one time incomplete, one time maybe borderline complete where they like the wrong person One time the person figured out and the other time they were just like, this is not compelling television And then they found someone who was not only compelling, but like kind of making the moral humane choice in these insane circumstances and then they were like, oh The show's actually more interesting if the guy is like passing these morality tests rather than falling into the chaos of the situation. And they're like rewriting it in time in a trum and show way to try to like guide him towards like presenting him as like a moral beacon of like, you won this show by being unwavering in your humanity. And then he has talked about when the show ended, He like could not readjust to reality for like a year And it's not like that was all consuming in the same kind of way. and he knew he was on camera He thought it was just a documentary series And by the time the show premiered, he had worked through this and time had passed but was like I for like the next couple of months kept thinking it was still going on Right. that was like that was like three weeks of this guy's life. Totally. that even when that final episode is like, congratulations, You're a good human. This was a TV show. It's a comedy. Go on He's like back to spending time with his parents and he's like, but are my parents in on this Were they in on this? How far did this reach Would that be an interesting like finale for the show or is that the midpoint? and I'm still in it Jon, to the Truman point, it's like You're right that he kind of is set up in the best way he could. transition out of this, but God is there going be fucking damage on him I'm not saying I'm saying the point I was making was not actually. I don't think you can actually you on it. I just I just tal about that guy. I want I want to say that Peter Weir took the ercials wanted a movie to look like commercials, because he's like, everything needs to be really brightly lit because again, the way the world would function How do light exteriors like their interiors? He had one crazy idea that he wanted a video camera installed in every theater the film was gonna to be seen. and when the movie ended, he was going to switch the feed to the people being filmed Kind of a cool. There was a live interactive. loveove that idea. addaptive, but I think they were just like, this is impossible obly to pull off. Ridiculous, but it would be so cool I like that like thirty years later, Coppola could barely pull off a guy stands in front of a screen at every Like what do you believe art is or whatever that question is? Well, that it happened to me twice once I was watching I said a screing of Fremlins too And it was like that they actually in the film, they set the movie on Yeah. they set the movie on fire and then that is so crazy. The same thing happened to me when I saw everyone. When it happened a second time I was watching the Muffet movie. Yeah And u has anyone done that recently? Do you know it's even crazier is Gremlins who I see it. The Gremlins got into the projection booth, they ripped through the film. You wouldn't believe what happened in mine, who fixed it . I don't want to one up you here. I don't want to big dog you, but my screening was the hulster. No way no wait a second guys, I have a question for you to get you off of this. If we do Dante, will you want to do Gremlins too Oh, I mean,or different, Dante because Dante does feel JD Dante, I would want tona do the explores. Hell yeah. There you go. That was that was don g give it up a boost. That was a movie that I watched constantly growing up. And that was like, never seen. You've never seen it I I don't. I don't mean that in the I'm just saying that's I mean, it's I have watch a lot of those eighties kid movies because like I was too young for them And then I didn't have the like sort of whatever cable TV American life that I guess like the Gonies and It's many Yeah, that that was a video store for me that we would rent the Explorers never ending story labyrinth right like Gonies like on loose And I've seen those four movies a grand total of three time. You know what I mean? Like you haven'ten E explorers ever. No, That's what I'm saying. I's the other one left handeding. The thing with exxplores that's interesting very quickly, David, is it basically is like a fucking snowman Harry hole A thing where they just didn't let him finish the movie And so explorers had to be kind of like stitched together. He never got to shoot everything that was written. Wait, what's the Snowman thing? The movie The Snowman like ran out We gave you all the cluesue. Oh that one. I thought talking about the animated short film. Oh was like was like comy. Yeah. ' that one feels finished. That one's pretty finished. It's pretty short, too, you know, Snowman. I will say no joke creatively in my life I One of the references I've referenced the most is the thirty second live action opening to the Snowman Because it's ped into a feeling that is so specific that I have ve been a part of several things, I'm like, we want that feeling. You know who's big for me was Corduroy, the TV version of Cordoy.ith the live action one? Yeah Yeah, it was really good. I don't know It's a tiered one. Yeah.C it's also animated Cordoroy. No fuck that I don't see that. I don't I know what Corduroy is. Cordoy is said children's book about a little bear in a toy store Tim story was announced to do a big budget. No, he should that's not fun. It sounds like it be really calm and relaxing I know we gotta get back to Truman. Can I just say craziest thing So I see Gremlins twoun in theater.. So the And I'm like, well, that was fun, that was a fun experience. I'm lucky that I got to see this crazy screen, but I'd love to see what happen in the missing scenes when they bit through the film. So I rented it on VHS. And yeah, and you got to see it unbroken all the way through. Shady, the craziest thing happened on the VHS. What's that? And this is just my tape, my player Gremlins too The Kremlin's like broken to the TV. And it's did it stay broken? It was like staticy. And then they like in other movies. they like changed the channels to like Western films and stuff. And then the movie just like went back I't do that bit on Gremlins too now. Crazy say. We'll do it again. trust me. five times. This is a show that's never done a bit twice. David is seriously tightly hugging his baby Joey Joey. Who is that? He's from Superman,. Youid see the new Superman Mvie? I did not. David loves baby Joey. I love him entent Tuckas are holding him in a way that shows that. The Truman show I'm going unpin one of your big pins. Yes. begins almost immediately with the light falling from the sky which I've been on this show before ranting about story structure and What I love about the Truman showhow is that I think There's a version of this movie where you do this like, all right, let's spend ten minutes with seeing Trum quest And it's like, right. How quickly do you start to break it? And how quickly do you, you know, unattached from his reality? All that stuff? And what I love about the arc of this movie is that that happens within whatever, one minute of the movie beginning is that immediately it starts falling apart and you're not we don't have to live in the Truman world for ten minutes before he starts to notice. it's like, it's risky Because like, yeah, you do have that fear of like, will audiences accept this reality as we begin to break it, right? Like But I think you do. I think they do such a good job explaining how everything works. Yes. And then the movie quickly runs for an hour. Yeah. and then we take a ten minute break to have an interview with Christoph. It's a good solid time, right before we finally are like, Okaykay. it' all right. It's the movie has ting. They save the day and then suddenly it's like, we're actually going to unpack this now, but they've given you so much information already up until that point that it's just hard data points you need and it works because it's still dramatized because you're learning about guy who made the thing. All you do not. You don't see Christoph until an hour into the openening shot. O opening shot. and then not until an hour. And then not until hour He's in less than ten minutes of the He's, I think it's one reason he did it win the Oscar becausecause there would be a version of this movie. agree? Yeah whereere you keep cutting back to him and you're seeing it. Well, the other thing that interests ye, of course, that it's about him, but then the movie's more about him obv, whichich is what you run Re because That's what the movie isn't about. right. Christopher thinks it's about him, sure. But it's not to extent. But that's the moment when it finally slows down. David is very annoy. I'm just trying to make a point. I don't want to forget please make it. please make it. When they have sex, you cut to fllat topop from Brooklyn niney nine and the other guy. Yeah, where he explains like, but you never see anything. They point the camera The wind blow the curt It's a very funny moment. That's one of the very few moments that they caght to the audience before The reality breaks and then we're cutting to them all. And it's the first time. They don't first And they kind of don't do it again for like a long while. J forgetting they show the bar with Olan Jones because when they get Mcellahone. Yeah, yeah, they show Yeah, but that's later. That's later. Yes, this is the first one. Yeah that's the But it's very brive They add more people post reveal of course Napoleon and such. They do, but they do it slowly, but they do do it before the Christop moment which is the full kind of like, okay, pause. And what I think is really bold about that cutaway, right? is it's not like I don't believe maybe I'm going to say this and I'm wrong, but as I remember it It's just a hard cut right to those people going, Noah, you never really see anything. It's like it is. It's like you don't cut to the TV the you never see the TV. You just know that the audience is going to pick up They're going to be jarred for a second to be like, what am I watching? And they're like, o, these are people watching the show. And it's just interesting. And maybe it was a studio note of like, can we please like just I need tin tiny bits of context, please. Like it's toowhelming. But maybe not. or maybe they' just editing wise we're like, no, no, it belongs there. L we need it a little bit. It feels to me like you need to. ease the audience into that as a language that's going to exist because also at that point, the audience is starting to wonder How do people watch this? Like what is their relationship to this becomes as pressing a question as the reality of how the show is made is like So are they watching it like it's sports? Are they watching it like it's a soap opera? you know? To me you would just have it on, right? Like that like obviously maybe sometimes you do lock in with the Truman showow And I have questions of like, did they do like a highlight reel And anybody like during prior time? Oh show. No I think it is dreaming So I think it's what we sort of now have, but then they do the flashbacks. So what I'm a channel with flashbacks. Yeah. So this I'm going to unpin one of the other big things is that obviously one of my I say, obviously Griffin probably someone th I'm obsessed with the early two thousands era of reality TV and what turned into it and especially the big the big swings that turned into disasters in a lot of ways. And what's so interesting is that the state of reality TV now versus what it was in two thousand three, I think because there's this sort of like boiling a frog element to it, like you think that it's like always been like this. But if you go back and you watch season one of the Real W or Survivor, you're like, oh my gosh It feels like a documentary. And back then it people was like this is a spectacle. That's even like twenty years past an American family, which was presented as a similarly high minded PBS thing and people got into like debates of whether it was exploitative or ethical. And then by the time the real world premieres, it's like, well, that was an interesting artistic experiment, much like seven up and the real world is cass and exploitative. And so there was all these different folds of reality television, which I'm fascinated with because I think they're these weird cultural mirrors in a lot of strange ways. But some of them that are interesting is obviously like Big Brother did played around with the streaming aspect of stuff. I'm not a big brother guy A friend of the show, Zach Cherry is a huge big brother guysy and has tried to get me into it. It's the reality TV show I ever watched F first season of the UK Big Bother. Well, I tried to start watching season one and then Zach got mad at me. He he's like, Don't watch season one. And so it was a whole thing. But one of my favorite things that then turnurn I got Zack into was topia The Truman show As it exists, right? Is this premise that, okay, there's a show that's on twenty four hours a day. I think they would do it like they did at topia or some other shows. I think Big Brother is a time where you could tune in and watch some of the webcams. The way Big Brother worked was every day there was a digest, but there was, yes, you could tune to E four and watch the live stream, which was incredibly boring. And in the states, it was similarly a website where with some censoring, there was more raw feed, but you were getting it be edited. It was always so boring. Yeah becausecause like it's just people's Well, So that's the thing is that I think is interesting is that in the fictional reality of the Truman show, right? this is something people are engaged with. In reality, what transpired is that Anyone that tried to do anything like this, ended up not working in a lot of ways. And that's why I think the closest thing is Seven Up because they really, you know, that was a. It's a different thing. And seeven Up is owning that it's a documentary. And the thing that's interesting about reality TV is just like our discussion about the Truman show of being like, oh, it has to be this certain way People put their fingerprints on it too much, right? Well, they all't know they're doing it. They all know they're doing, but then also the construct of it is always there's interference. So so utopia because Ben I saw you looking quizzically at topia. Utopia was time it was the highighest budget, or one of the highest budget reality programs ever made that Fox was putting out I was obsessed with as well. I was I was me and Emily were the viewer show, I think. Yes. Yes, which is so often true. Big Bother was also based like the Dutch would start with this crazy concept. Yes, that happens a lot. And so one of the premise of topia was we're going to take a plot of land and we're going to put people there and we're going to give them basically like None of the major things that they have that come from the public constructs, water, gas, electricity, food, and they're going to have to form their own utopia society and solve these problems and they can build their own internal government and their own way to make decisions and all this stuff. Right? The idea is cool. you see the vision of it But then this was a Fox product at a time when that sort of that Fx reality programming had to be it had to be about conflict and sex and drama and all of this stuff. And so number one, they ended up casting people who were diametrically opposed, right? It would be like, we're going to form a utopia society and here's a conservative preacher and a woman who is a poolyamorous stripper. and here's a racist guy and here, you know,' a racist guy. I mean, but it's like that was one hundred percent. off course. Yeah. And so of course the show is just replete with people at each other's throats arguing and no one can really figure things out But the premise of it is they spent all this money making this space. and it was just outside of Los Angeles. And they had cameras everywhere And like Truman's show, the idea was that you could log in online, watch topia twenty four hours a day. and sort of see what they're up to. And then twice a week they'd do these digest episodes where they told you what what B do they accomplish What do they accomplish? They find the compelling dramatic strains within all the footage. So right off the bat, people aren't that interested because it just feels like regular sort of reality shock. That's my editorializing of it is that it's just the same people arguing and you know,. I think it came happening. And then there's people that are online watching it twenty four hours a day. and then there's a lot of people that are just like waiting for the women to like take baths and like watch them naked on it's like that it's that it it's that level of polarization of like There's the level of interest in this is not Truman. I was Bath Hunter one, two, three on those boards. But that's like that if you try to When will they take bath? Here's the thing. David Bath Hunter is so funny. It's just like such a hilariously kind of old fashioned like like fucking horizon and America's likey was like, I like to watch a woman take a bath. It's like mister Sin, but it's just about dirty bathwaters. was a funny tub report. The other day I met someone and I was I was describing this show to them And I was describing David and like they describing Bl cheeck to them. Well, yeah and they weren't piecing it together. I was like, David Sims it landed and they're like Th then they're like Oh Bath hunter. And I wass like, Ohh, I didn't ye, yeah, you know invest this bad right my earlier internet career picturing. I'm a bff hunter. David dressed up like Dog the Bounty hunter with a bunch of bath paraphernalia fucking dog club withight night night vision goggles. U So anyways, the show, the show is is not succeeding Make bath hunter. It lasted for like thirteen episodes. It lasted for like thirteen episodes. What's funny is that if you try to find the episodes online, what comes up is people being like, Hey, does they don't have the footage of them taking baths? And it's like David replying, being like, Yeahah, mate, I got you. He replies Really fast. like even if it's not like a design racist guy. I got a lot of him. He was really taking a lot of baths. It's a lot of David dropping the address to the blank check studio being like, meet me here, bring a hard drive Bring bath, Bring bath, bring brring water, bring soap, bring heart drg. many terabytes, you can't upload it. It has to be transferred. No, exactly. And right now in the studio, it's hot because these are on twenty four hours a day.s running. It's like an AI process thing. I'm gonna to have to ask you to finish this tangent. Just just we can discuss other things in the truman. So topia ends up starting to fall apart. One of thene of the things that I think is fascinating about topia is that the people on the show were told this is going to be a Truman show esque that is going to sweep the nation. Yeah. So throughout the show, they keep going, guys. world is watching crazy how famous we are right now. Well, they keep going, We have to figure out the world is watching. Right. And what they didn't realize that' one point two in the demo. And so then They start trying to do these weird things to sort of bring up ratings. they start having these ads that are like very like, is someone going to die? Like one of the last episodes was Halloween themed and the host is dressed like Dracula. And I remember the promo for it was like, willill someone die tonight on topia? And the answer was like, no, they won't Of course not. But it was just like the PT Barn, I'm like, will you see this And the show ended after like ten episodes, It was a dis twelve episodes. Yeahah. But it's fascinating because to me, it's exactly why the Truman showh couldn't exist in real life, right? Because number one, no one would have the patience to actually also let real life unfold. And two, if they did have the patience to let real life unfold and not put their finger on the scale, I don't know that people would watch. So I think The Truman show would succeed. You Yes, because I think the difference obviously, he doesn't know He doesn't know it's a TV show. Yes I guess that is that is a one difference. Beyond that. So when this movie came out, everyone was like, well, this would never no would watch it too boring. Everybody watch it And I'm like, no, everyone watch it because it would be a window into a life we want. a way into a fantasy Yeah' a lot of YouTube social media stuff h hundreding The Tuman show. Fuck. What's that Japanese show where everyone's nice to each other in a house? Terrace's house, B girls in the city? Yes Terace us Tar'souse Co, Bysyls that was the first one. Okay, fair enough. Like you know, but like those shows where people like I crave calm. I crave quiet. And like it just feels like all the people watching, right? likeike the audiences There's like the nice old ladies There's the security guard slow TV phenomenon, which is much bigger in other countries than it is here, but then Netflix starts me using' really fucking big. I just can't get on more slow with slow programming. Okay What about yeahelve hour day, everyone listen. they put out a new episode recently. Den' someone who doesn't episode twelveours. Also obviously, the holiday season, you wantan to slow things but down in terms of what you listen to. It be Yeahah, that's a good point. Yeah wouldouldn't you maybe just get home and be like, what's trueant Yes, you know, fuck it on. Yes. Yeah, listen, I could see you being someone who would be like, o, the eight year old Truman's doing homewor. David turn that on the back. David, dinner? Obsessed with Truman would being like you guys need to watch b. Yeah no, I'm joking. Let's drop it. Why are you telling us to dro the dro the bit? No, no let's focus on the podcast and maybe spend a less time on your bathtuub webs. Yeah. David I'm gonna short I'm gonna shorten stuff so we can back You're right. Do you figure that there is because they say like we've never stopped transmission, right? So do you figure there's like there's a channel that's just a live show But then there's maybe another channel that has like flashbacks stuff, likeike, you know, like compilations of what happened today. This is like thecast and like the like actual football game. I imagine it's like a syndication deal where one of the networks is airing the package, the best of their rerun rotations and then this channel is the raw feed. I also think that which then will cut in flashbacks at relevant moments when what he's going through is boring. Yes. I also think when he's sleeping and stuff, they're playing best of and they're playing their' and behind the scenes interviews like watch him sleep Yes. and But in the movie, we see it's like a picture in picture where they're like showing in corner the raw feet of him sleeping while doing the Christop interview. I was recently, I forgot that I did this, but I was recently it was brought up that I did a project back in the day where I would cast myself sleeping and The idea iss called Please influence my Dreams where I would sleep. and then there was a system where you could come on and you could take turns being able to speak through speakers that spoke to me when I slept. And people watched it we ask you to be the guest on this episode. ' this is ' Be because there's a part of my life that I'm like, Christoph's the bad guy as I'm like slowly marching my way towards trying to become Christoph. Christopf and Truman at the same time. Can I can I Pull down a pen I think what's interesting about this movie is there is something He's the air on the air unaware. Well, of course, that was very interesting. and that's why they put it on the poster and it opened to a robust thirty five million dollars forord there's something that feels naive about this movie's understanding of how we'd want to watch other people's lives, which isn't to say that people wouldn't watch. I agree with you. the way the television industry has curdled and adjusted to what people are telling them they want And vice versa has led things into like an insane direction. And I think there is this turning point of Survivors two thousand. and I think the first American Big Brother season is two thousand one. Something like that First UK big b. I was like thirteen or fourteen. And that concept felt insane of like we're putting people on an island. There is like not a fake reality, but there's a forced reality on them. We're taking people out of their element and you're going to watch human behavior and how they survive And Richard Hatch who ends up winning that first survivor, comes in and is like, this is a game. Yeah Svivors win a million dollars. Right. But you watch that first season and most of the people are just like, This is interesting. I hang out on an island and I guess at the end of every week There's a popularity contest and someone gets a million dollars at the end. That's the bait to get someone to sign up for this. Why else would you do it And he immediately is like, this is a game. you play it. People were agghasted that Richard was lying. Right. And I know was in Britain, British Big Br was nasty Nick was the Richard. This thing. And then Big Brother has to do the same and people become like, I I don't think to do the same. People just play it like a game because it is a game becausecause it's a priz. But that's why I brought up utopiia because I generuineally think if they had just asked for conflict and they put together a group of people to try to actually do this, I think it might have actually been engaging television. Possibly But in a television context where they were like, no, no, we need conflict drama, we need ratings. The juice of Survivor and Big Brother and the copycat shows ultimately becomes the contestants inside of it manipulating reality audience seeing the way that they are working things to their own advantage, right? And then that, my opinion, morphs into like the modern era of like the Bravo reality show and the similar shows to that, which are presenting to you something almost as if it is the Truman show These people acting like they are constantly obidious being followed by cameras other than when they're doing the direct address moments, they're acting oblivious to it. They're letting people into their homes. Their homes are outfitted with cameras like both hidden and like right around them And there are like manipulated plotlines. You have producers going scpted.. Right, one hundred percent. And it's the fascinating inverse of this where we now have these shows where're like You know, they go they walk among us. It happens in our reality. It is constructed every step of the way and is presented to us as you're just seeing a rawffet of people behaving. Also it has the same kind of weird gamesmanship inside of it without the prizes of I need to pop If I get a two episode contract on this, does it lead to a spino? Does that lead to me being able to start my own fucking like lifestyle brand, right? And I had this moment the other day in the supermarket where I was like buying soda, my beloved like fucking digestive sodas. I'm constant trying every probiotic. so to brand to see if anything fixes my body And there's like a mother, a father, and a young child. And the mother is talking about like, oh, lollipop, I love these sodas, but they're so expensive. We could never buy a six pack here. And then he goes like Well, you don't buy at Target. Yeah, they're much cheaper at and name some website where you can get them sent direct And then calls Cut, and he's like, yeah, I think that's good And she was like, doing a Truman show ad Read in real life. And I'm like, this is some family influencer count in which they're shopping at big box stores and then acting out scripted scenarios of their deciding prices based on who's paying the most to sponsor line from them instead and I'm like We now it's flipped into People are acting fake in our real world broadcasting that stuff back out to us and we are obsessively watching all of it Y,' the Tuman show without Truman. Yes. Fascinating to me I hear you. And what we don't want is the like idyllic Can we just watch a person like grow and learn things Yeah, and that's, I think that's what I Why I bring up the seven up series is because I think it's so beautiful in that It is the irregularity of real life, right? And what's so fascinating is when you watch, especially the most recent one It's really powerful to watch because you realize Um bothoth predictable, how unpredictable, how fickle, how solid all of it together is what life is. And that it goes in these directions that only real life could is what's so fascinating. And the moment you try to control it becomes this weird sort of, you know, you you're it's a reflection of a reflection of a reflection of valley. Yeah, you' you're living. It's not even an uncannning valley. It's like on the other side of the graph. it's just not real U this also this movie comes out the same year as forty two up You know, it's like Andrew Nichols sells his script, I think the same year that thirty six up Comes out thirty five I'm not good at mas which is basically like the age Carry is when he's doing this movie. L the one model of, I'm not saying he was even directly inspired, but the one model of following someone for this long is basically concurrent with the age of this character What did you want to say Pin Sandaval. that was all the stuff I that pin I got was we talk about I know I'm sure. I think we' I didn't watch. So when you say talk about Truma S show, plot a movie. Y I been. Yes We're out about Weoney. Can I talk about the trailers I saw before No theater. Silent. I think there's a ruggrass movie TV because whyamount's big holiday release. I did not think this would be a long episode for the record. So I think we kind of touched that just I think it's an incredible film. Yeah we're gonna gotten like two minutes. We're so close to end We've literally got to the light feill. So let's pick up there. Exactly what I'm saying. As much as yes, it can be interesting to talk about reality, like and life and all this stuff. L we should talk more about the movie, which is construction has been as Jie pointed out and just has like a million bits like You know, we should we kind of we should continue. So he drives to work. We see we get a taste of what his life is like And angrily going through the plot points for the tr point. May I run through some time code things as a way of setting us from plot points because it's also just fasing like at what moments the movie reveals certain things Okay. Sure. you open with like the opening credit interview stuff, right? Yes. Lightfalls at sccore is amazing, by the way. Yes. The score is weird because it's largely other music. It's largely Pillilip glass music from from Mishima and from Pawakatsi. But then also some original Phillip gllass tracks. No original Burkhard Dalwitz is the guy who's doing the d d d Trman Sleees. That stuff is not, I think, well, now I want to look at it Be I met this girl online who told me that she wrote Truman sleeves. Yeah, and I Did you get there didn't. you have to explain it to me. That he is guing lastasted a couple the movie. I have not seen that Okay, so Griff has now checked the bingo card of the two things he texted that he wanted to talk about today. text with this woman and he's like, she's a musician. Listen this thing she wrote and it's fucking truckking sleep. Stop. Okay, All right. so after he goes to work swear to God. That was wr my fill of class. correct? Truman sleeps his room. but so yes, I he must have done some new stuff. David, what if I got you a cross and guard stop sign W that h would rock one sleeps written Philip Glass and that girl from Facebook. The light falls out at three minutes, right? undernder ten minutes, he can't get on the boat Like you're introducing that correct. So So he goes to work, he's doing the Uh, you know, making tearing out the pages of the um Oh yes magazine, which you're kind of like I thought you're doing a lawnmower motion there But all of Peter Kraussa comes over the great Peter K catch crazy routines of the banter with the magazine guy about for the wife and the greeting to the neighbors. But yes, the, you know, Kraussa comes out to give him the challenge. Car it's basically like, here's here's today's drum. He's going to have to go to the island, you know, to do a sales picture or whatever and he can't do it. It is fascining beautiful Carry, the way he holds onto the little U Post. Fasting to consider that like the way they enforce his fears is to constantly test them R They have to test them. But I also think it's that they need something interesting to happen today. Like he can't just go to work every day. The thing I like the most in that scene is is that the guys on the boat are like, Hey do you need help, which is like a normal thing to do. And you're like, they're actors and they're like, what are they thinking about? Am I wrong though that also before this Truman starts talking about how he wants to see the world And so a part of me it happens right after basically nothing has happened after because I felt like he made some reference to it and that's why they're sort of inserting like remind them that he hates traveling A that has it just feels like right. This is a thing they do on some schedule every four months or whatever to like reestablish it whether for the audience or for him. because after that is Laura Linny arrives with the dicer slicers, you know and then it's him and No Emrick What is his character's name? Louis. But that's when he's like the golf ball talking about on the road doing That's when he does the Fiji does the around. And then the movie gives you the first flashback of his dad drowning which at that point in the movie, you maybe think that's just movie language rather than understanding that would be part of the broadcast then as you said, like the security guards are the first audience members you see at like fifteen minutes in They basically immediately go into well, he sees his dad The next thing is he sees his dad. What do you want to say, Judy? I also think and sees his dad and then talks to his mom right after. No no, but the no, the sees his dad sequence is so awesome because it's like you watch reality warp. Yes, the thing that I want to talk about a little briefly though is that in the flashback of the dad, the thing that is set up that is like so horrific is it's not just that his dad died. He begged his dad to take him out. And that they set it up so that it's Truman's fault It's the word. It's like so horrible. It really upset me watching it this time It's all kids. like in a new like freaky way. is like fascinating character motivation shit where they're like Well, you sit down, you write a screenplay. There's nothing immoral about it because you're not fucking dealing with a real life But at a certain point, they understand this falls apart if you ever has the desire to reach further beyond the reality we can construct, so we have to narrativize What are the like incidents of motivation that would cripple him this thoroughly. Which I think is such it's such a crazy ethical thing to put on screen is because in it they're like, this isn't real. you know,m I'm performing a role. But to this kid It is real His dad he watched his dad die. But this you know what I mean? Like like to Truman, this is all real, which is what's so fascinating because I think that's also a thing that TV uses a lot where it's like, you know, it's like the this is a prank thing where it's like it's aank.'s prank's like, you actually did that shitty thing to that person. But also this is how we talk about like movies every fucking, you know several times a week in this room where you're like, do you buy that he's like scared to travel and you go like, yeah, because you know, if it was just that his dad drowned, that'd be one thing, but the fact that he wanted the dad to take him on the trip, that makes a personal you're like, right, that's a good rating. Is Holland Taylor's character kind of the most horrifying to consider I think so That think mom the mom the mom' sorry Like Because she's essentially raised this child since birth, but she's not his mom. And she seems to have no lingering guilt about it. No. And she like she plays all the lies very well. Well, and she seems very proud of the fact that she's Truman Burbank's mom. Yeah L that that's her good. Like, when he's missing, she has that line where she's like's like Let me say his name.'ll like it's in a way that's like like, you know chilling. But it also feels like you don't want to see her do talking head interviews because that becomes too depressing. Like it's kind of a good judgment on weird. other thing I think about of like, how often does he see his mom? Let's say once a week, couple times a week, right? So what does do otherwise? Yeah Did she leave? And that's the question for all of this is like, what what is the what is the schedule of their lives? Right. That's why it's like fascinating when that elevator door opens and you see people in like this little mini green room. Well that I love, but I love the bus driver. Yeah. where I'm like, so do they just sit there all the time in case Truman wants to take a bus or did they get kind of assembled there? O does he drive the bus? My Does he kind of just drive it off and drive it back? There's the part where he Is heing to And he says I'm the bus driver because I love that part. Well, no, I was though more referencing the part where Care starts to realize that people are just on a loop. Yeah, people are on loops, R and they their loops. The bus driver just might have this route and they just does it every day. They have their first position, which clearly is like, o, this every start our day start six AM, right Yeah. And you probably have an eight hour shift where you do X, Y, and Z. Wait and if you think about it, our lives, it's almost kind of like we're showing up to first position. D So like especially when you run a podcast. sure. Very true waves to the wage. when I walked in late, you guys were all frozen in place and then when I open the door, you're able to start moving fifteen minutes in is the mom, right? Then Laure Lenny comes down with the slice and dicer. Yeah takes out the cardig again and that's when we cut to the bar for the first time. And you do the big flashback long flashback. We also went over, I know David want to talk about seeing the dad for the first time because that I just love the way that like without us listening to Christoph and watching him direct traffic. We're watching traffic get directed against.es. It's brilliant. The runners coming out and blocking him like the way people just suck him into a bus, just like paranoid baby, you know, you're experiencing the world from Truman's point of view because if you kept cutting to Christoph and him going send out the runner, send out to this, you wouldn't be experiencing it the you wouldn't be having the same journey Truman's having, which is like whooa, whoa whoa, This is starting to fallpart Also, what I love about the dad is She's Kind of just like standing there in a very strange way, dressed in very because I think he got in pretending to be like a hobo or something. Right. But he can just standing there seemingly not. interact with him or he's gauging whether or not the right move Right. And then when Truman looks at him, he's like, this is my shy. Right because he knows if he just ran up to him then Right. So you know, he'll get taken out. That's part of what's I think the movie very wisely understands Almost twenty minutes in If we start thinking about the immorality of what's happening here, it could get too depressing And so you need an interception from the outside world to be like There are people who are morally conflicted about what's going on here. And so the idea that this moment with the dad, you're like Has he been in the system for months or years just observing him from a distance and this is the first time he's actually like gotten close. I don't think so. it's pretty recent. It's five and me it has been his plan. The whole town is that day. Yeah Like it's like it's not that big And we'll get to it, but one of my favorite details of it that I think answers a lot of those questions in the simplest way possible is they show the two clips of person parachuting in and the person jumping out of the Christmas present. Yeah. And those are two things that like, The inclusion of those two things implies a whole universe that's happening in the real world of people who are like, this is horrific that you're doing this and you have to stop it The person who parachutes seems to want to save him a little bit more L the person who pops out of the presence says like, I'm on TV. I did it. L did it. I did it show. the baseball streaker exactly. likeike the guy who's like, I can't believe it But so even Natasha Mclhone. Mclhone. The pin feels like it's part of a movement. I think isn't looking to completely destroy the show, but is sort of obsessed Is obsessed. How' it going into ethics of it and that she She's not waiting for him to interact with her. And in fact, she's sort of freaked out by like, I've clearly wanted this, but I wasn't planning to like breach the seal Her. The question of how is it going to end, the implication to me could mean like they're not, you know, they're obsessed with the show. It could also mean that the big question of the Truman Show which is like Are we gonna to watch him die one day? And is that the end of the show? What is it? you know? We're not asking the biggest question Sorry No. that one doesn't bother me. What do he mean? Oh sure. Jacking it. How much is he jacking it? Well, the wind blows the curat. And what do they do? Right? You know Lommen's magazine s that he makes collage art and he never touches his price He might not. I mean, he's a pretty It's pretty uptight guy, I don't know. He has roe sex with Laurel and he was crossing your All fingers on all hands crossing her toes. Yeah, it's rough out there. funny details. Just like the idea we're like, Oh, we made a show about a guy. like, Ohh yeah, what's the like? 'use he jerks offful lot. Like it's like especially what was like, thirteteen to nineteen? like he jered off a thirteen Yeahit That must have really ca wor lot of a lot of flashback. Yeah, thirteteenh to nineteen, we had to hire extra itors This is some packages of baseball games out there. Right But there's also Tr Truman's remembering his third birthday party again. Ieresting. You can ask like dog tooth style questions about the world where you're like, Ry, rain can't exist in a narrow silo because that disconnects us from our reality. But if these are the things you don't want to show on television, then maybe in sex ed class, they're like, and of course, sexual intercourse is when you Touch someone else's hand And then every night he and Laura Linny just like shake hands and he never considers his penises for anything other than peeing. I think these are the big questions this movie asks. I'm sure there's like fan fiction about it, but it would be interesting like to see the movie from the perspective of like hi actor who just like a kid in his class who's not f to consider all that shit. Exactly. Like what was this classroom like? How did those kids not talk to him? It seems insane. And those kids just had to like show up and live that life essent in the same way that like, you know when you look at child actors, they're like, well, my whole life was on set. I didn't get to have a childhood. I don't know. And all these kids not only didn't get to have a childhood They had to have Truman Burbank's childhood. Well, and even the No Emirate character, it's like like Tapanga on Boy Meets's World was like a one episode character named Weird Girl And then they were like, weird girl is good And then they like bring her back for more and then it develops into a romance and the entire show is about them as a couple and she spent eight years growing up on like American screens. They deleted the scene but there's a scene from the Truman show where one of his neighbors comes over and like knocks over a bunch of stuff and he's like, did I do that? And then like everyone went nuts and like people were like off. People trying to tear down the dome and then they wanted more of him. goes inside and then you hear like a lot of machines whirring and then a similar looking guy comes out, but he's really cool. Yeah. So after this sort of first half hour, which is like Truman like this seem Truman It's a great bit. It's a great bit. I support the bit. Thank you. But I mean what those guys did on familyamily matters. That was so great greatest great writing. But it's that kind of thing where you must be like It was no Emmerk hired to be his best friend. No I no Emk popped. Exactly that's what it is. He had chemistry with them and they were like, great, okay, you'll be the friend. Yeah So after that first half hour is when Truman, so we're just like in which we vaguely feel narrative, you know, that's sorry the thir real is thirty minute where he starts pushing against it where he's stopping the tra goes through Yeah the revolving door comes out the other side, Phil of Glassess Anthem starts playing the d d' d d And he stops the buses and all that. And we introduce the bar on either side of the sort of flashback thing of them being like, oh, there's a new hire who doesn't isn't up with the Truman lore and all the other staff members at the Truman bar are like, this is the fuck Yeah I can' believe you don't know the plotline about the b the Gado but there's He starts having that realization because the system starts breaking. The light falls, the radio tuner changes. That happens later the radio thing. but yes, yeah, absolutely. There's w or of other things that happened that That is two and radio tuner is three. two What what I love, I think this movie is perfectly dialed in on are I hate movies in which people figure things out too quickly but hate even more movies in which people continue to not. get smart about the reality about them And I think like a lot of modern horror, elevated horror in particular has this problem where characters just keep going like That was weird and then go back to reality And this is a movie where it's like, if the light flies out of the sky, he doesn't immediately go, oh my God, my life's been a TV show But when three things happen within two days, It's just enough to start him testing. Like what are the limits of this But what I also think is fascinating about this and why I think it resonates so much, right is that How many systems this is related to, right? where people try to create a sense of control to create some sort of thing that is this is the way the world works. And then People's journey is that they start to see the cracks of that. and it's system, it's impossible to create a system that em bubble someone, whether it's religion or society or schooling or family. It's like that's such a universal feeling that you start seeing the cracks in the scenes. The more you, you know can close, the more people will push back What do you make of? I love the photo album scene obviously because the fake Mount Rushmore is so funny. Yeah But then it also a whole car ride? It also whole car ride. It It also presupposes that they're sort of like, oh, shoot, we need some of this stuff and like We don't really have the budget to really go for this. So like we can probably just get this out of the way now, right? Earlier days of the show and also canan the family go on this many trips so he doesn't grow up and go like, you know, I've never actually been. they can just kind of rely onss fuzzy childhood memories. Where I start I'm like, but how would he know that families go on trips? But again, I feel like they're just like everyone should talk to him like he's normal Laura Linny they look at the wedding photos, Laura Linny points to these three girls and she goes like, Judy, Jodie, Joanne It's a weird gag because it's never like Butike Are those like runner up Laura Linney types? Like who are they? or they're just like the lame supporting cast she used to have or maybe not used much anymore. You get to the flashback and Linny is like faking the injury to fall into a. You go like is this an actress who's really enterprising or did she go through all the levels of casting more like like seconds Perfect. You're the one And now you have have to win thin think in real time that he's naturally looking somewhere up. Because like when they when Laura has left him when, you know, and they introduce the new love interest. right Clearly like she's been pre selected because you have to pick someone who will play the game Yes. likeike you can't just you You know what? He has chemistry with Nash Machone now we'll figure it out So he keeps pressing against reality He goes to the hospital to look at the operation. which is which is so funny. the guy being like, I'll just It kind of reminds me of the incision here now. And he does hech. She freaks out and they put the gas mask on her and he goes, we'll have someone else clean this up. Someone else will clean this up. And Laura Linny's like,' really good handle that really well. Right Wh she's just like, yeah, an actor has to stay in the reality. If push to the limits, you have to make an incision on this one The travel agency where every poster is like you could like's like lightning striking a plane. Yes What I also think is fascinating is that Fiji's booked out for a month. It's the busy season. I actually sympathize with the fake travel ag where she's like, we live in some type you want to go to fucking Fiji. How many flights to Fiji Well that others thing is I'm also I'm like, we live in New York City and it's like to get to Fiji would be like three planes Oh, yeah, I'm sure. Yeahah, exactly. Let's see. But I think somethingomething that It resonates to me about Truman's experience and being slightly tangential to the immersive theater world in New York and things like that, right Everybody's first instinct when they realize there's a system or something to explore is you start trying to find the places where you break to see where where it could go, right? Like when you go to sleep no more, it's like, ye, there's the instinct where you want to follow the main characters, but there's also instinct where you're like, I want to find the room that no one else is in. I want to see where the where the boundaries of this thing are. And so I love the fact that when he starts realizing What's going on? hisis instinct is like, let me sprint towards the things that I've never seen or let me see where the boundaries of this are. I think it's such a good detail that he's like, I'm running into the office building. That's not the one I work at. the place I never have a reason to go into. He pushes the limits. he sees the elevator, peoplee get in, the doors close. Like they were prepared enough for that. What they weren't prepared enough for was the feeling that that wasn't enough. becausecause everyone loosens up after that moment when the security guards are getting through to be like, well, we don't have to fake it again. Yes. And I also love the idea that it sort of begs the question And again, this is all subtext, which is so fun about it is that he goes to the hospital and you can kind of tell everyone's like, oh, normally we just like kind of hang out here and wait until it's time for you know, us to interact with Truman. I think that's what they do, right? That's backack to the Holland Taylor question. it's like o does she do? Does she only like a higher level? Yeah. but Truman could have to call his mom at any point. Totally. If you work at I feel like the hospital might be empty unless he starts going near it and then they're like, whichich it seems as the energy at the hospital. everyone's like, what's going on here? I love to think about. I think it's more like the people at the hospital are like Broadway standbys and they're like prepped for this day, but it's rarely tested. Yes. because it's like they're ready enough to have someone on an operating table, all the equipment, the set going that deep, like all of that thing is that it's just like they're kind of out of practice. and he usually settles for seeing far less. One of my core childhood memories is a period time where was dealing a lot of anxiety and a lot of sleep issue stuff, and I worked with a therapist who like tried to like get me into like lucid dreaming stuff. And whether I was actually lucid dreaming or if I was like dreaming that I was lucid dreaming, who knows what the difference is. And later, you let people influence your dreams. Yes, exactly. But one of the things that I remember, it's a dream that like stays with me and you might have brought this up, peopleople have like, Oh I haveve had a similar dream where it's like, I was in a dream and then I was like, I want to go explore the city. And then like my dream was like, no, no, no, you're supposed to be in this storyline. but I was like, no, and I want to go like, climb building and jump off it and see if I can fly and like the dream kind of being like, you're not supposed to. And so I feel like that Truman experience is this like relatable feeling that's so core of like There's this path you're supposed to go on and what happens if you just run in a different direction. I looked it up All right, the flight's in an hour So I don't think I could make it But I could go to Fiji. When would you get there? So I would leave now four hundred thirty PM from John F. Kennedy International Airport. three hundred thirty PM. You're forgetting daylight savings No, What do you mean I'm forgetting that Th's already happened I'm saying it is three thirty PM Oh here's be light four thirty. I'm so sious. It would get me there five forty five AM two days later There's one stop, just one stop at Dallas Fort Worth. Is it at Sea Haven Yeah it's at sea haaven. U American airlines and then I switched to Fiji Airways. And how long is the second leg? It says the entire thing would take me twenty one hours and fifteen minutes, which is not short. It's not short U and then the way back also just one stop, but that one seems to have a longer stop over so it's a thirty hours.. You you want to know I just have to correct, David Way back is Peter Weir's final filone. And we will reing this later in just one two weeks. And you know who takes that trip all the time? Wh? Jeff probes You probably see to you all the time. And it's eleven hundred dollars, which is not that much money considering you're going to fucking down. Okay It's nothing. I'm just gonna say it right now Its economy, should we all Truman show ourselves? Should we just get up and go to Fiji right now? Oh so To you Truman S showhow yourself is's not like be the star of a show. I love the Truman show. T desperately at all costs you go to f. It's now like a medical term for like a psychological condition and we're gonna take it back and being like, I'm gonna do a trruman' show. justust get on a flight to Fiji. If I'm a travel agent and a guy walks in in shorts with one small suitcase and is like Fiji today, please. I might be like, are you okay? No let's all Okay let's Truman and pretty Let's to Truman show D where we bum Rushsia surgery. Yeah and then try to go to Fiji as fast as possible. No try to show challenge. Pivot to Chicago and then pivot to. I feel like it just kind of pivots to like New Orleans, right? That's his next. I also, I love that Fiji is like a panic Atlantic city from the dad. Okay. The Truman show challenge is you have to bum Rush of surgery And then get away from land mass you car. you try plane, then try bus, then cut try card. Press elevator buttons in a bunch of random office building lobbies. Yes. You have to and instict your. You have to go you have to goast security guards and office building un rush of surgery. onene magazine So after the bus. I just want to see few you say Oh sure. I think that moment is so effective where like Natasha Mclhone is like in true conspiracy thriller. This is about to end any moment kind of panic that he's oblivious to. The dad comes is playing it really well. Yeah. he's like sorry mentally ill. like you know,' been happen You're not the first guy she's taken to the beach. And the dad does not feel like an actor feels like he's someone who's part of like the security detail of the show. He's good he wanted to actually he wanted to know me. racing here. And he's like prepped with the things to say. And then Truman goes like, well, like can I call Tomar to see how she's doing? And he goes like, no, I mean, can we're moving to Fiji tomar. Like the Fiji is such a p. That's why he calls Fiji like director But that's why I think a bad lie that now has he's hyper fixated on twenty Which I love because Yeah, again, I think twenty. Truman' not that old. No, no, like ten. L Truman's maybe twenty nine or thirty. Like he's pretty young. I think No they keep they keep saying thirty that's thirtiet number. Yeah. But what I love is that you get the sense that this guy is not an actor. He's not he's someone who is probably part of the he'sail or something The fact that in that moment He's like, she's like, find me and he's like trying to figure out how to solve this, but he's not a creative guy. He's like he's like we're just going to Fiji. The fact that that becomes now imprinted lore in the history of the show is so amazing. But it's like fucking like kryptonite being invented because the guy doing the Superman radio show needed an excuse to take vacations. And they were like sometimes Superman gets really tired for two weeks. R It's day ten thousand nine hundred o nine. Yes. and that's twenty nine years in eight Ish months. 'ause they keep talking in the interviews about our thirtieth year of doing this show.. I guess he's mid thirties when they film it. But like the show started. She's like, we're gonna to have a baby soon Lary kind started before he was born Yeah' y to start with one camera. That's true And this movie was filmed before our current Jim Carerey was born Jim Carry five. Oh got it. Yes. Right Crie five point zero So wait wait Okay, got it. Weapon. Can I say I just don't understand why that is breaking people's brains where I'm like every famous person looks a weird E famous. Well it's not just that. Remember when Tom Cruise looked kind of weird? Yeah Have you seen pictures of him recently? he looks better? Right. He was at the hockey game. and it was like, the work hasn't settled. They get out talks or they get an little, you know, something and like it looks weird for a bit. He didn' even seem like himself though it's a different guy and And I'm like the weirdest person in the world. L speech in French, not his native language. He is the weirdest, most inconsistent man in the world who's been very open with his like mental health struggles Like the idea that people are like, there is no other explanation Well's also, I don't think it's any of our business, how people choose to look. I don't either. any of the reason any people feel like they need to change their look is because of people commenting and talking about it constantly over and over again where I'm like I'm like, it's that selfulfilling thing where you're like, Yeahcent that's the health. You're curious why celebrities are changing how to look because of this conversation. Okay. Jim Cy sorry, Truman takes after all this, takes Laura Linney in the car to show her the like the loops, like the cards coming out and there's disapp from like midle merril Yeah, should the actress is Hannah, the character is Marn. He's gone from hospital to the bus, likeike he's tried to es immediately. and then he's right And then they drive over the bridge. He still thinks he can maybe trust her The driver over the bridge together. They're kind of in it together, which I do like. And she has a moment she's like There's that part when when they hit the bridge where she's like, yeah, you could never do this. And it's like like do it. Oh, sweetheart. Right. But then they kind a good actor where she knows what to say to psychologically manipulate him in behavior, not in like telling him what to do. But she kind of likes that they make it over together. Like he's like, we did it. Yeah. And then there's the fire You know, they have to like drive through the fire rightight. And I love that he keeps pointing out like I look at that timing. it's so perfect right You know The traffic jam And then no, no,'s no then it's the cop. No, the traffic jam already happened. fire and then the cop who's like hilarious been evacuated a chemical spill. He's like, all right, the guy' like no problem, Tran. whichich I just love that you're like it would happen. It would happen because also these guys these these guys are not called of different friend These guys who are their job is to show up and eat doughnuts all day and they're like, Ohh no, we have to do the thing today. And so then the guys in the h like he's never been this' ever been this right Yeah ye paranoid And then we have the moment Ben called out where he fully like blips out grabs her and it's a terrifying moment. You're it's It's it's the moment in which you're like this is a not well person who's been broken by all of. I guess maybe I just wanted them to cut to viewers at home Witnessing that. There's just something about he that it doesn't feel like it's passing enough judgment doesn't actually hold Ben. I want to say he does not hold the thing to her He grabs she's pointing it at him And he grabs her by the arm u, you know, and pulls her up to him, But there's the point but then and then disarms her where it takes it out against her. He's not threatening her with the blade. She's coming at him. He'sbing She's threatening him. Remember when his friend comes in, he has it pointed at her. Yes. No No, she points it at him, right? Wait w that has Lance's arm on She says do something right here. right? Well, no, he's again, he's no, he's not pointing it at. I know, but he's holding her. I know. I mean we're arguing San. he said. I'm sorry. He's hold her She she says do something when she says that he lets go and he's like, what the fuck is going on? And then she's like, I didn't say anything. I didn't say anything. like, you know, and like is trying to go back to normal mode. And then there's what I love is How can they expect me to carry on under these conditions? The most like actorly way to put, like I can't do my job anymore. Right That it's unprofessional. It's unprofessional. When Noahmmer comes in then She's like trying to leave. He's holding her against the wall and he's got the dicer in his hand. So it's kind of in the touchy area of like he's holding the weapon because he'd had to take it away from her And he's physically losing it and she feels threatened by the fact that there's a sharp thing near her. Al he knows that like she's he's lost his trust in her Right going crazy. It's important we're pointing it out. Yeahill, you know, upsetting. Yes. It's upset, I think supposed to resonate of domestic violence. It's upseting, you know what I mean? It's like it's go right to another upsetting thing Which is Noah Emmerick's like, let's go have a beer. Well, And I also just want to say that like when Noah Emmerick comes in when hears the knock at the door and he's like, it's going be more men in suits or whatever, that's the one time he sticks the dicer out. He does. ye. Not at her at the door where he's like someone worse is about to come. But then it's so depressing that it's like they go sit, they have the beers and Noah Emmerick's dream the usual like, you know, we all feel this way and you know But you're cutting now Chr Chrop feeding him the lines. And you're just like, right. And what he s There's no sincerity to it is if everyone's in on it Truman. I would have to be in. And then, of course, they're like, and now here's your dead Like And that's how that this is where we're gonna c this is one hour into the movie. It's also like a Mahhollan drive moment where Christoph's giving him this like somewhat boilerplate dialogue and in his earking in a little bit. And Emric's also like grounding it in something like changes words and stuff like and it's like clearly he has the latitude to do that. And when you hear him say, if everyone's in on it, that would mean I'm in on Truman. it's heartbreaking because he's found a way to make that line feel honest, it also probably is reflective of the fact that this guy feels so fucking guilty that he's having to say this to this guy and he is off they they have the reunit with the dad. and it's like you're you're playing the evil like the number one card Your father who died is alive alsoso must be feeling shameed because everyone's watching him's home do this this is is where where you like the reality breaks where you're like Congress, I know Congress isn't always But we're coming But like wouldn't someone have objected to like sick freak very close L at some point shortly. So when Andrew Nichool pitched this film, it was pitched as in the near future. a man lives unwillingly, unknowingly in a twenty four hour soap opera. This movie doesn't really make it clear what year it is. I'm not saying it doesn't fifty seven. No, because like everyone seems pretty modern like regular contemporary. But it's another line of dialogue that we're almost at that I think about so much where Harry Ser is doing this kind of victory lap interview with Christop to like address how close the show came to going off the rails and how they like snatched it from the jaws of Deat. And he goes, Truman was the first child legally adopted by a corporation. Isn't that true? And he goes, That's right. And they don't tell you It's happened many other times since then. presented as like, and people might not remember that was the first time that ever happened. You're right that you could take it that way, right? is sort of like was this the beginning of the ripple effects of it. Yeah especially not seeing broadly the outside world. I'm not like this is happening eighty thousand cases all over the place, but when you're like, why is Congress intervening or not You're like to some degree, he's crossed all those barriers and continued to get approval collusion, you know, I I also think with the reunion of the dad and all that stuff, I think part of the point of the violet scene between him and the wife where it's like It is violent and scary is that there's no You can't go back from that You can't she's gone. You can't go back into normalcy. even the relationship. Y relationship will never be the same if you had that interaction. And so it's like So if you basically accuseed your wife of being a bod person. Well, that's what I'm saying like an actor. All of this stuff has they've now crossed a line where there's no world in which they can go back to happy fifties universe unless they make quote unquote, major rewrites, which acknowledges where like Harry Ser is like a masterstroke. How did you come up with that to bring the dad back? And he's like, look, everything started going kind of sideways because of the dad So the only way to resolve this was to like bring it full circum The best l in the movie though is when he's like, And how are you going exain's like amnesia? brilli' so. And so the dad wanted to get back on the. He was doing that independently and obviously Christoph is like, all right. It's like Christopf would have said a week ago that would destroy reality under no circumstances and now he's pushed into a situation where he's like We have to bring the dat in. So at this point own it. There's thirty minutes left in the movie. Yeah Right? And like, you know, you have the whole the whole Christop sequence is about ten minutes. the sort of Harry S Sheer interview stuff And you have just a few minutes of like, okay He's sleeping. Things are back to normal. He does the you know, the soap in the mirror, right? Like he, you know, like, oh, it's say you Tr back strokes his big face Is that on that's after the Harry Sheer interview. That's after that's that's basically when it's like Truman has woken up. Then we get the impression that maybe a little bit of time has passed because like Laura Linney moves out Right. So like maybe weeks have passed and he's being normal. I think where said the movie is supposed to depict the last week of broadcasting on this But like he digs a ton, you know, like, you know, she moves at whatever, you know, something's going. Yeah Harry Sheer interview serves to give us our first sort of temporal time. Right. We can kind of like take a bit of answers a handful of the questions that that's what that's How does this work? Like Christmas present guy and all of that stuff. also a great sideide point of thing that when I was looking up actors last night, with would you say what I want to say? I think it is with the Mat Gz Gates of it all. the guy who paraglides into the U No into the hom his name' the actor's name is Marco Rubio. Are you for Eus? Yeah, but with an E. so Rubeo or whatever you. Wow But it was just funny. So was like I was like, what if it was actually anyways, it should be Margco Rivio Um, But I think it's I think that's brilliant. because also that point, you go from this character having this extremely low low, this moment where this whole thing is falling apart And then instead of feeling the panic and stress and the moral and ethical quandaries that this all it's blowing up Instead, it is a victory lab. It is a wow, Christop. There you are You did a great job. You've solved your problem, but then the next thing is Truman escaping and just being gone. The one The thing I wanted to call it quickly, sorry, is there an actress named Una Damon who is like the woman in the main console board with Christop and GiMa Yeah And wasan Why does this woman look so familiar? And she basically has a career in the nineties and early two thousands of constantly being the woman who stares at a screen and explains to the audience what's going on in like Gatica and deep rising and deep impact thing why she's stuck in my brain is she is the person who explains the spider in Spider Man. And is the tour guide who goes like twenty seven radioactive spiders That's funny. Well, the reason I was on an IMDB is because they have the call in section there And one of the callers is like I forget the question but it's like, Hey,, how do you do with d? And it's like the voice is so unacurly and And I was like, that's someone. And then I looked it up and he's the editor on the movie. So clearly it was a scratch track that they're like, let's just keep that in. Yeah, yeah But yes, basically from the moment Christoph has taken his victory lap, Truman unbeknownst to them has perfectly planned his escape. He knows they think that not believing the death thing. They think they've reset the board. I love the moment with Giamati and the other guy where they're watching him talk to the mirror and they're like, oh fuck. he knows the cameras here. No, he's back to normal. He's playing the role. He's doing a He says like he's talking to the neighbors. after the he goes like that one's for free or whatever. Like it's like he He's, you know, But it's he's towing the line just enough that they don't need to flag it to Krystal. we But we barely see anything because then it's just' sleepy No, yeah, yeah. and then and then what I love is the no Truman section, ue the sun, the moon turning into a spotlight, the actors just patrolling. like just like the reality of the world completelying arm in arm. Yes all just like march. Like the twins are like so mean. Yes. Yeah. I love those twin. because there's also there's a version of this right where Straight escape version of it where we see Truman escaping and we see him hatching his plan. We see him blow it off Ttally. And you don't. No Now Dg a Tunnel. He figured out the tape recorder thing like the yeah And the big narrative shift that's happened is the first hour we're seeing the experience from the POV of Truman The moment we do the Christoph interview till the end, we are seeing the experience from Christoph We're inside the moon looking down at Truman. Yes. And I think it's I mean, both in terms of how they shot it and how like the moon turning into a spotlight obviously is great. that the moment of turn on the sun is like such a beautiful, iconic moment of that, you know, it's just like so and that that shot how they got, you know, like just like, oh, that's a practical effect. They are they are moving a light on a crane past it, you know what I mean? It's like it's so cool to see. Yeah. And the fact that all the actors are arm in arm and it's like it feels like a Disneyland where the ride is shut down. You know what I mean? Earlier in the movie too, they show a model. That's so important to give you a sense of the geography. becausecause when he then tries to escape you understand that right? Like there's there's nowhere to go There's nowhere to go. And they say in the Harryur thing that it's the only man made structure or one of only three man made structures it's the Great Wall of China and the Truman Dome basically are the only two. Yeah, it's fascinating. And then the f they're walking around And then that's where you start seeing the masks drop of a lot of these actors and you start seeing, I love the fact that Emerick basically, you can tell he's kind of like stage manager They've sort of entrusted him. I'm sure he gets a producer credit on the show in some way because like they're talking to him as though he is like the problem solver boots in the ground guy And then I also love that you get that moment where They're all trying to find Truman and then you have both the mom and dad Hving this moment He'll listen to me. Having this moment of vanity where the mom is like, well surely if I say his name. Griffin mentioned this, I feel like, yay. And then I love that the dad chimes in too and you can, you know, he's newly back in the cast But now he's so proud of himself. And he's like, Truman boy and you're like, Ohh my God, these people are disgusting. And they try the three things. They look for him Then they find he's on the butt. o. they do the weather They try that to scare him. And the crew though is disgusted. Chris is pushing it way too far, But even Giamati's character at one point earlier, he's looking at the classified section. He's done with h He hatesul because he's sl he's quietly training the guy. Uh where he's when he's sitting into the pizza and he's like Cut to this And then Christopf shows up and he Gimani has this little bit of lines where he's like, I was just trying to get him ready. know and it's clearly like, oh he's the way out. He's sick of this Yeah. And Christopf comes in and is like, I want to review the footage for the big insurance conference tomorrow, the camera angles, whatever. And he's like, oh yeah yeah. Yeah. But then what I also like about that storm section. number one We are in a world where practical water effects are less happening less and less, right? Sure, they shot this in a tank. Like I said, they almost drowned Jim Cery because they misinterpreted his I'm in distress signal, which was a closed fist They thought he was just acting carry on. Yeah. But but it's beautiful to see because there's there's there is an animal part of our brains that' seeing water like that. likeike there's something beautiful and captivating about it and wind and all that stuff together. I just love Christoph's gohood melting away. like where he's like, oh well, I'll sre him with the water. like harder, harder. and then he' like realizes like, oh This is now just down to, do I kill him or not? Becauseuse Truman would rather die Exactly. They not know the answer. Right.. And I love But then he tries his last thing, which is saying like, what if I just told you that you are safer here? L Yeah you have to believe the outside I care about Yeah. The also thing that I think is important is that he tells Giamati to turn it up and Giamati doesn't do it. Yeah,, he does it. Christoph does' it. Yeah whichich is I think it's a small thing, but I'm like it's important that Christoph is the one and it's like everyone else is at this point like Hey just I think Gimati literally says there's nothing left to do but kill him. Like or something like that. like if I turn it up anymore. Yeah. And you're right. Perfect image of the sky turning into a painting Like the edge of the wall where it just looks a little shitty. the end of the ship puncturing through. It's I just want to say To that end the ship, the boat. This is a film that I think has like six or seven like iconic images. agreed that are just they they're ingrained into film history of just like Perfect, beautiful storytelling images. I made a list of was watching it It raining just on him is the first one that I think is like totally. And then the multiple shots, whether it's them on the pier on the beach with a friend and it's like the beautiful sunsets and they're talking, I think those are so just sort of like connected to this movie Um, the moment when he stops the traffic is like, you know, that's like and I can't doing this with the bus. It's incredible C. Christop watching Truman sleep, I think is such a beautiful when he goes up and he his hands it's like That is so of that era that I love it. And then of course this this what is you to the end of the world? Oh my God. there's a wall and you walk up the stairs. Y. And what I love is I think when So much of cinema storytelling, right? is that you're trying to create these stories and this context so you can have an image that in of itself is abstract. But that because you watch this entire movie, it has all of this meaning and that it becomes a haaiku that represents that entire story. Just the image of the bow of a ship cracking through The edge of a of reality. that's the entire story of the Truman Sh That one shot tells the entire story of the Truman show. Okay, now I don't I don't want to cheat, sir. No, I just, I'm sorry, I need to call out. there's one important iconic image that David would probably add to that list Terry Camillary in the bathtub watching the some big bathtub action winter. Now, I don't want to change the movie. I think it's great, but I I do kind of feel like it would have been cool if instead of poking through, he just sailed into whiteness, kind of like Looney tune style ike going on the, you know, the way he got out was that he drew a big he ped a tunnel, the tunnel and then the train came through Yeah. Or if the sailboat took off into the air and started flying into the sky and then everyone waves as Truman flies away in the s. What did you sent us, you monster? Okay, so what I sent you is from the paramount lot, my parking spot for the past when I was rununning o Mister Parking Spot, gotot his own parking spot. He, Well, when you're the showrunner of a late night show that only exists for a year and half. But CBS is eager to get that. Yeah So my parking spot was in the tank, which is Now there's it's interesting because there's There's conflicting reports as to whether they shot it in the paramount tank or the universal All the official reports say it was paramount, but people claim it was universal. And then in an interview I was reading with the DP, he referred to the universal lood Paramount has it on their tour and all of the things online, people will correct and say it's Paramount. So I'm going to say that it was paramount But so every day I would drive into work and I would beneath the wall where Truman escaped And it was, you know, this was my first time working at a lot like this and it was you know, one of the fun perks of that job was getting to have that lot experience and feeling like, you know, you're you're in the movie biz, you're in the TV biz So anyways, those are photos of my parking spot U Yeah, you were it was so cool. I mean you I talked to you on the phone sometimes when you were like walking the Paramount lot. And I always thought the Paramount lots so cool. Like it's like one of the true classic like old school movie liab. Yeah, and what's funny is, um I think originally they're talking about where they're going to shoot the film and they looked at all the lots of all the different studios to see could we shoot it in some of those studio lots? And they werere originally going to and then they found seaside or whatever. But yeah I would I would When I was stressed out and wanted to talk to my friends, I would call I thinkve I've talked to all of you. and I know David, I remember walking through the back lot and describing the fake New York City because our offices were right across a said I know well because it's been used in so many things. Yeah. it was very it was very surreal A funny story that I can tell now because I'll never be back there again was that our staff was an amazing staff of people who love to have a good time And multiple times we had staff members get sent to Paramount jail for We would all go hang out in the fake New York City and you weren't allowed to do that. And so we had multiple members of our staff that got taken to paramount jail for various reasons and we had to go like, ree them. Yeah you had to be like no, they're no we need them They're necessary No they're necessary staff. You can't ban them from paramount forever. trying to think of Wh from Paramount would defend Paramount jail, You know, whoo's on the mountain Groph Who's on the mountain? Jon L Picard. Eric Kartman SpongeBob. And one of the Transformers. Yeah, yeah. I'd say probably Bumblebee. Yeah They had a b there. someomeone from Yellowstone. There'd be a dut. And then of course team man himself. TC, crruise control. Yeah Would it be all of his characters together would you pick one as a representative? I think it's him as a human man. Yeah. I think that's his actual. All right. So wow. We got to a point where Ben is wrapping us up.en You know you're in uncharted territory when Ben is wrapping things up. San, I like for greatould mister Slow Christmas himself is quiet, Jany, This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a fifty page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online makes sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responssees set upp required compatibility and availability varies eighteen plus No, the film ends with Good afternoon,ing good night. I mean, is there anything you guys want to say about the Truman's closing triumph before we talk about the reactions to this. it's great that it's you to mirror what you said earlier that you are cross cutting between him and the viewers. and then working Natasha Macalon and really closely.' cutting her intermittently, but it starts to become almost like an unknown conversation between the two of them and her like rooting for him. You see the bar that we keep cutting to. it's like Tubman and the security guards, you're like call your established people. Tubman, we love Tubman That they like love that like even unknowingly, Truman understands how to end the show. Yeah that he like understands the most kind of like dramatically poignant kind of like concise narrative closure. What if it turned out they switched to another channel that's like a shitti or Truman show where they're like, yeah, it's like six warehouses in fucking Louisiana This's like the gym show. It's like he kind of knows' TV show. We've done our best. The gym show and Jim's kind of aware of it. and everyone's kind of like like that there's like knockoff Truban shows anyway. He just plays paintball day shooting people. Well according to Jim, now this just sounds like. I mean, we're getting towards what YouTube is. Yeah.. Pretty much. you're right. Yes. No, I just think it's great that he walks through the door that we don't see anything of what is beyond that frame for him. And then it's just like It's an obvious joke, but it is the only way to end the movie is just people going what else is on? Yeah, of course, but it's a great, it's perfect Perfect. It's perfect becauseuse it's just flat topop. guy from It's just Yeah whatever's flaptop. Dick Tracyil. I don't understand this film did not get a nomination at the Academy Awards for Best Picture. It gets three nominations. Well, that's a big year for movies It's a figure for movies, but I'll tell you who got best picture who will be like what the cominations So Truman's get three nominations as Griff said. Director of Greenplay and and supporting actor. What are the best picture nobbs then? I'll tell you in one second, but I just want to say that this one't got no craft nominations is Pretty insane. That's wild. It's like a pretty like high level craft accomplishment and just things like editing as well you know, like Well I think weirdly there was obviously the like I think there's a spillover distaste for TV at the time. Maybe I think obviously the Cry was snubbed was like a huge story He won the Golden Globe, wasn't even nominated. I don't know who snuck in, but I guess it was Nick Nolty. It's a fairly strong everywhere Mind me. It felt like a classic not yet.s realal bath hunter behavior I mean like like Jim Cy was refused to let you have everything. It was a you can't just right be a movie star and an Oscar like, but it's like fucking Crazy becausecause of what a cultural like smash the movie was, the five actor nominees are Roberta Benni forlicious is beautiful Which who wins? Which it's like in retrospect, that's obviously all just really silly. Oh, but he was gonna w When he wonally he I was did the exact same bit. I was theact I accept tastefully. I up to the stage, normal. I was gonna say I was like Yeahah, but of course when he won, he just walked up like a normal person. Iiously two things to say. I was gonna say when he won, he planted his feet on the ground and kept them there exactly took one first step at a time. Tom Hanks and Sving Briv Ryion Italy Ian McCellan and Gods of Monsters, which was obviously probably who should have won of the a great performance in his shoing and you know, sort of like time for Ian McCellllan to get recognized. Edward Nortan American History A, which is a very big festal performance for a young actor And then Nulty in affliction, who I feel like is the one think am a little bit This picture Shakespeare and love wins. Obviously it's controversial in its own right. Great movie, though and a big hit saving private Ry. saving pv Ry The thin red line whichich's kind of rocks that it got a bunch of masterpies because it's a masterpiece. Life is real Okay, Okay. L that's one of those things where I'm like, I don't like that movie. I can at least understand the spell that was cast was a phenomenon. You know, by Harvey and it's a Holocaust film and yet there's nothing like it. And then the fifth one is Elizabeth, which is a movie I think is Pretty good. Like it is a pretty good British costume drama with a good performance but you're like What crack was being smoked that they were like I think Elizabeth needs to make the five. Also the show is in like psych textbooks for the rest of Yeah. and like made two hundred million dollars. It's just like, what the fuck are we doing? This is maybe the first Oscars that I watched and like tracked as a kid. Right. sureure makes sense. because the trr show is a movie might the Truman S showhow might be the first movie that I was like, Oh, I know that movie sometimes weirdly the accademy has a hive mind and we'll talk about them like they're one person. when obviously it's a bunch of disparate voters, but you think more of like the hive mind of the highest level people in Hollywood deciding how they communicate to the public presresents them and carry just being a like This guy kind of came out of nowhere. He wasn't selected. He runs the industry and now he wants to be serious too. Right. He was in stupid movies basically up until this year. I'm sorry. pays our bills just denied. But we refuseed to treat him seriously. And the noms that the Oscars give it feel backhanded towards Harry, where like Peter Weir and the script were great. Peter Obviously Ed cararried all. It's like Peter Weir did a good job toning Jim Carey down. The screenplay was a good concept and Ed Harris grounded the film Jim Carey is just kind of like They treated him almost like he was like an animal performer, whereere it's like they somehow tricked him into being a little bit normal But you look at the other bodies and it like it wins actor, supporting actor and score at the Golden Globes. They nominated it for picture director screenplay. The BAFTas nominates it for film, director, supporting actor, sccreenplayace, cinematography, production design, special effects. It wins director screenplay and production design. Like everyone was kind of more generous to it than the Oscars who felters kind of donon't tell us we have to treat this seriously. Yeah And also that it was partially like it's a big summer hit And all the critics are sort of going like, is Jim Cerry going to win an Oscar? And they're like, donon't fucking tell us make up our mind for us The film opened. June fifth nineteen ninety eight Number one of the box office thirty one million dollars Big hit big hit. makes two hundred sixty four million worldwide. How much do it make domestic? one thirty something O's twenty five Low money in nineteen eighty eight B big hit Number to the box office is also new this week. It's a thriller for grownups Our F friendch Jean Clem was just texting us about it French o clip fuckking. U to date on the tax It's so crazy to me. We think Truman show be direct to Apple TV in twenty twenty se. Don't even fucking talk about it I'll myself. I fucking like announce it tomorrow. Yeah, Truman showed fourteen part peacock Right in the first seasonnce being Beacock is now straight to come. J just when you come, you see it in the come I've been broadcasting for three hours,'ve done so much a poor job. I just like the silence we all gave David to. J work that out. You know, it's just like What if we could put TV on to vomit, Ly Anytime anyone vomits, they watch an ad. you know what I mean guys. We speent six or seven years trying to get people to sign up and pay money for Pacock and they're not biting. We gotta it giveive it to them for free in their comp. We're buying ball real. What is this business? Like the YouTube album. Don't worry about it's free. You get so depressed by this mod our media, but how do we make money? Well, every time they vomit, we show ' them an ad That's what I'm saying. That was my job. It's free in the come, but when you vom it you I will say this about number two, the box office. It's a thriller. I would say somewhat of a forgotten movie, It's a remake of a classic, you know, it has movie stars in it or whatever. about the Jrackle? No Uh It's just one of those movies where like I don't think anyone really remembers this one. It made seventy million dollars domestically one hundred twenty eight worldwide.ike For a pretty forgotten movie. now had a big star and the big star the big male star is Someone who knows his way around a sort of grown upp thriller. It's not a forward. It's not a big I mean mrter. McViley Wow That was pretty good. That was really good. It was better than my come thing. No, the come thing's good. The big female star is going to win an Oscar this year. She's going to win an Oscar. She' on the up and up and this is her big star year. It's a Helen Hunt? No, no, no. It's the year before It's Gwyneth. You're after Gwneth Faltra. It's a perfect murder. A perfect murder. Youre right. I did catch those t whichich is an Andrew Davis remake of Hitchcock's Dallm for Mur. always forget it's a remake. withith Michael Douglas, Gorneth Paltrow and a young Gish Vigo Mortenson. I say young Gish because he actually had been around for a while, but you know But it's just one of those things where like no one remembers that. I'm like, I kind of made my Wow. Number three the box office is a film that I'm sure we all as children were very excited about And maybe we enjoyed it. maybe we were disappointed. I was pretty into it. Summer ninety eight. Yeah. bigig, big, big, big blockbuster. It's a big hit. It does hit it works. It was a hit I think it's pretty quickly recognized it's not big enough of a hit, but it made one hundred thirty six million dollars domestic close to four hundred worldwide. It's notatman Robert. No That's in run The latest it's a reboot ish of a franchise, I guess sort of Godzilla. It is. It is C Eemrick's Godzilla. It is Godzilla. It is a movie I watch basically every five years and go, am I gonna like it this time? And you go's kind of like Okay. Yeah there are things about it. Some fun that I really like in its jankiness and I have such a roll and Emmerick soft spot, but I always go like Has the nostalgia cycle hit where I'll just appreciate everything in its brokenness for just representing this time? And some of it is so insane. That's a movie that I remember. I can see me watching it on my TV with my mom and my sister. me and me questioning how Godzilla's size keeps changing so much. It is throughout the film. It's It's one of many problems. He's like sometimes he's skyscraper size, sometometimes he's much smaller. It's very strange. Yeah. It's also sometimes hes like a man. Also, he's a sheic. ight Right. That's the great M broader performance where he's like testing all the blood samples they got. And they're like, So what do you know about him? And they're like, Well, he's eight thousand feet tall. He weighs four hundred pounds and he's Pregnant? Bendy like Godzilla. Big Y b lost it. Fourth at the box office is a movie about girlss Okay, I'm listening. sort of a, you know, chick flick, classic chick flick. It's a romantic drama.s It not How Stella got her groove back? No, that's a good movie. I would say this movie I've never seen an interesting director in a way, an actor, It's not Hope Floats. It is Hope float. It is Hope flloat. Rer Bullock. Do you know who directed Hope Floats? Harry Conic Junior. Ben, JD, do either of you wantan to wage your guess as to who directed Hope Floats I'll tell you, it's the guy who directed waiting to exhale. It's the same director, you're saying. Yes Does that solve anything for you to review? It doesn't hit me. He was fired off of directing the Fat Albert movie Bill Cosby No by Bill Cosby. or sort of. He did rebound by directing first daughter The Katie Holmes I'm not Cin's daughter comedy of course crazy. Forerest Whitaker. Fororerest Whitaker. Forst Whitaker just I had directed all of those movies my Fororest Whitaker had a you know, a side career directing like, you know, pretty good kind of female centric like romantic dramas. Like felt like he's like steady studio hand. He gets fired off of Fat Albert. You keep bringing this up. And it's like, oh, is his directing career kind of over? And then just like fuckking wins an Oscar for B actor forum in getting a fart pushed out of his body And also he was in Rue onene. Great career and viable. andviable Uh hopefully it's number four. So that one it's like Sandra Bullook is a housewife and then herer mean husband reveals that he's cheating on her on like Ricky Lake, like a Ricky Lake show And so she goes to her small town where she grew up And she's got this old friend, like Harry Conic Jror Uh, and like are they going to fall in love? you know? And she's got like a big box of hope And and she's like, fuck this, I got to getid of this. So she goes to the river and she's like, I'm just gonna throw this over. I will say to the bottom. I love Sandra Bullock. It feels like one of those movies where I'm like, thathing could have made twice as much money if you didn't call it Hope Float. Yeah. like there's gott to be a better title out there. This is also that era like you're saying where there's all these movies that you're like, have you heard this mov? It's like, it's like well, it made one hundred sev a little little. What was the final total sixty. It made sixty domestic, it made one eighty one worldldwide. It has a terrible title and the poster was just here is Sandra Bullock. and people are like, that's worth testing. a hug from Konic Is the twenty they needediconic embrace Is the twenty twenty twenty six equivalent of like these like YouTube channels that you're like, you've never heard of it, but has four billion followers like I don't know. Bubby Man has four million followers and he liing. Well no, Bubby Manans are in those followers.act. He's put in the work Uh Number five of the box office is another big blockbuster that also like slightly disappointed Sightly disappointed. Directed by a woman lot of those. Is it deep impacted? Deep impact? I would say that didn't disappint It's just that Armageddon ate its lunch. Armagandon ate its lunch. I think it did okay. It made one forty domestic. you know, I think that was seen as like maybe it's the Armagunon thing of like Okay, you know, like It's not fair to compare them There was feeling that could compare them because they' kind of the same thing. I think there was a feeling that one of them would flop, they couldn't both succeed. Yeah, And you're right that it did totally good. Deep impact did well, and then Armageddon came in and B Dog. I kind of like deeep impact. I I told Mi when I interviewed her that it was kind of like important to me as sort of a different kind of movie because it's very emotional I don't remember the difference between deep imppact and Armageddon. The big difference is that obviously Armagdon feels like it was written by monkeys doing Coke but beyond that, Arm Armag name Armagedon. Bru Sillis be flag Yes. Armagdon What's the story of deep impact, though I forget Well, you know what? We don't have to get the story of deep impmact. We're We trying to say and everyone is I could just do it Armageddon is there's an asteroid coming. We need to deal with it. And obviously the best way to do that is to hire drillers who yell at each impact. No that's Armageddon. That's what I thought. Yes. Dep impmpact has this much more like weird unfolding where it's like it's about a journalist who's on a story of a presidential cover upp that she thinks is an affair. And it turns out it's like, no, we've realized an asteroid iss going to blow up the eararth and we are basically trying to figure out how to evacuate a million people underground. Got it. Okay. And then they do sort of stop it, but in deep impact, the asteroid hits. Got it. in Armagen, spoiler alert. It does not Uh alsoso in the top ten, You got the horse whisperr. Um, you've got Bllworth. ar babies bore, a movie I love And I hope we get to talk about it. We're gonna to cover it someay. It's a movie that I have a lot of fondness for. Yeah. I watched it like, you know within the last five years and was like, okay, some notes. I am sure some notes. I'm sure it's pissing on a bunch of third rails. Yeah, but you know, glad it exists. Yeah. What was the song from pero superstar. the only reason I've never even seen the movie. The only reason why I know of it. The whole soundtrack is great. Yeah. N it is Titanic Tanicard Oh Ston Fil came out in December. So this yeah seven months in. Number nine is, oh, hell yeah, a movie that should be remade instantly The crime comedy film, I gotot the hookup starring Master P. I have not seen I don't think ever in full, but I've seen some of it on TV. I think we need to bring back I got the hookup. Number ten, the animated film Qu for Camera Which one is that? whichich studio is's Warner Bothers. trying to Warner Brothers run. That bomb so hard that Iron Giant is basically told like you're the last one. We're closing up shop. It's like They found it. He's like, but this one's good and they're like, closing questest for Camelot is like them very much trying to do the Disney model and have like big ballads and emotional romic a big story and of a backdrop but then funny animal characters. Then it's like, Iron Giant is him trying to do this thing off to the side. And then I think Osmosis Jones Truly the last one But but it's only half animated because it did too well I most this J told too many truths. Yeah, about the cops that live in our body. Yeah. I watched that twenty twenty six, like that is like what A lot of our society believes it's happening. RFK's true. We have to stop Osmosis. Chris Rock lives in my body. Yeah. He's a policeman. Our RFK is going restce one viewing of Osmosis drones to every American soci. Christ, D did you just say you watched it recently? I did. And how was it? It is very odd. I remember that the animated stuff is pretty cool. I would agree and that the live action stuff is pretty dreadful. The live action stuff is like repellent. Yeah. There is Bill It's mostly Bill Murry burping being like, L, it feels like Chris Rocks in here's like half the movies like a buddy comedy' happening in my digest. Half the movie is like animated movie. The other half is like footage of a sick man. Basically The grossest man who ever works like a or something Chris Elliott.. And his daughter cares about his health and he won't listen to her and he's eating a hard boiled egg. and he's by the monkey kidage trying to feed them And then the egg slips out of his hand, it falls into the cage. He reaches in the cage to pick it up, takes it out. It's covered in like monkey hair and like dirt and bacteria. And he's like, it's still good and he eats it. And that's the inciting incident of Osmosis Jones is that's what makes him sick And it is it is grosser than anything that John Watters has ever put on film It is the most repellent thing I have ever seen. and the movie is just yeah, it's very bizarre. Um U I was I was like going to do Scott hasn't seen an Acerm and sent me the list of movies to choose from And I was like Osmosis Jones is on here. I did weirdly watch it in the last forty eight hours, but I can't tell if I would not be able to contain my thoughts to four hours or if I will run out after five minutes. Yeah right where you're like yeah, it's What you think it is? Yeah Osmosis Jones. Yeah, my favorite movie of all time. I'm glad we finally fucking mentioned it. Finally this was thesmos Osmosis Jones series. Yeah, this is the Osmosis Jones series. We will do osmosis Jones and we ever do the Parling brroth they did direct the live action portions. And part of their contract was that the animation director wouldn't get credited as director. which I think is good. They are the only directors on the movie, even though they came on and shot one week months after the animation was locked It's insane like the whole structure of that movie was we only have to animate half a movie, and then when we have the animation, we'll shop it around and try to get a fancy live action director to agree to do the other part. Osmosis Jones. Osmosis Jones. JG Jones Your book is called The Endless Game and it is available. Is there anything else you would like to plug on this podcast? No that's it. I' mean in one half hours into it its running time no I would really like people to buy the endless game for me child in their liivves It's a really fun book. It's based loosely on my You know, I moveved around as a lot as a kids, it's about a kid who moves around a lot and ends up in a town where every kid in the town is part of a game of capture the flag that's been going on for eighty years been passed down from generation to generation And so this entire universe unfolding where kids sort of have to find their role in this game. I think it's a fun story and I think kids will like it love I'd love for y'all to read it. There's a link in the description. Thank you and watch the undercovers on Amazon Prime Sorts Oh yeah Do watch that It's itss own little Truman show in a way. Yeah. Thank you all for listening Please remember to rate review and subscribe Tuning next week for Master and Commander. right? It is out of the world that. I watched it for the first You're right It's Mando next week. Oh boy. This is a wild one to punch for weeks then. Yeah, Gethered, coming off. Oh my gosh, that's gonna be to talk Star Wars. Boy I just looked at the running time. Yeah. I mentioned a higher one. That's a lot of lot should just get beds for our station. I think we can just have a break Because like we can just be like, all right, and we'll check in with you guys tomorrow, wherever you guys are at in the part that part of the conversation. That works. It's a twelve hour day crossover. Yeah, that's wild. That's that's a crazy one, two punch of episodes here. I legit thought this was going to be a short episode because I'm like, it's say there's so much to talk about, but it's not like Rambly movie but I think we just love talking about it. I think it was a really good episode. I think we nailed it. I definitely thought this was gonna be a long episode. It's a big one. Also, I was texting David. I watched Master and Commander for the first time That is a great movie I thought it was a different kind of movie And I watched it and it's so good. I know you're going to talk all about that. I have not seen it since theaters And at the time I went, not my kind of movie. And so I'm very eager. I've been saving the rewatch knowing that Were was inevitable and that it's such a beloved David favorite. I watch that now and I'm like, We're is a master Tun next week for The Mandalorian and Grogu, a movie we're so excited for. What if it's pretty enjoyable? I would love nothing Becauseuse like Jhn Fabreau tends to be okay at making a pretty abolute movie. Here's my I saw the trailer with my daughter in front of hoppers. Yeah And I was not like, wow, this looks awesome, but I was like I mean, I guess they'll like fly a spaceship and baby Odo' eat a cracker. Like I guess it'll bekay. talk about it before, but every time I see that trailer, I am astounded by how nothing I feel. I'm not like dreading it. I'm not like this looks like shit. I'm just like, okay And I saw hoppers with David Erlich and his son and Er like just immediately went like, o and his son starts pumping his fists And I'm like, o, he literally points at the screen, goes Star Wars, That's my favorite movie and he's never seen Star Wars in a theater before. What if? Moy in Grogu is that there's a transporter ride. You can take the job as passible eight and a half minutes And so it just ten trips, five trips up, five trips back. That should be your Star Wars movie you pitch. I actually Yeah Speaking of new movies over on Patreon a few days, we're going to be de releasing an episode the final in our moral comombat commentary series. We're going be putting out an episode about the new mortal Kombatortalat. I will say every mortal combat movie is good. Have you watched Anniilation recently? Yes, I have and is it not good? Yes, but does it also good? Yes Okay. Annihilation is not so good I It's a r one. with With respect to all of the. I've talked about this before. The first mortal comombat ending is one of my favite endings to a film of all time. I think if every film ended like that, it would be perfect. So you might lo the opening of mortal combat annihilation. Yes.ing must work.. When you were a kid, that is all you want is for a cliffhanger to pick up right in the fucking movie. That is a good point Anyway, go over to patreon d. com slash blank check. do it. He's awesome And as always Good afternoon, good evening, and good night LlankCck with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosy. Our creative producer is Marie Bardy Salinas, and our associate producer is AJ McKon This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKon and Alan Smithy Research by JJ Birch Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Chow, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help Head over to blankchheckpod. com for links to all of the real nerdy shit Join our Patreon, Blank Check spepecial Fatures, for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes Follow us on social at bllank Check pod. Subbscribe to our weekly newsletter, checkbook on Substack podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions I started rolling. Okay Are you gonna to send us me Griff? Yeah. Okay and I trust your Cowd skills to make the necessary word substitutions. Yes, I'm not going to say the word though No. I you know what I mean I'm not gonna say Yes, but I I'm not going say the P word. Right, But like replace witho with microphone. Yes, exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly and great This is used to be trainer. It like her act like it's a secret. There's nothing secret about it. Okay. I'm airdropping Except This is the actual script. Yeah. Okay what page is that on Um Let's let's start on one hundredo five Ready Uh no, I I have to find page what you send me in d page document. Let's the original square Okay, do you want me to start in one hundred five? No, I'm startoring Who's who You're Truman Why? you should be Truman You think I should be Truman. Okay. because the whole thing. Okay. The whole thing is that you launch into the instead of good afternoon and good morning and good night, you launch into your thing Okay Right Okay, sure. Do you need a minute to adjust? No yeah, just give me one second. I think there's also, I think there's a line for David in here too orr Ben which is Is there a Giemudian here? No in the in the actual edit Mh hm cuts to someone. watching TV, watching it and they're like, justust do it, just do it. I don't think that's too confusing, I think. Yeah. let's a visual element. Let's just do this. Okay, great. Okay, ready J No man Palamv he said, should be my name Oh yeah. Let's I just just get me. Y Okay, ready That's not me. I fucked up our. No no, it's good Griffin isten You can speak, I can hear you I'm the creator hator of what This show gives hope. Enjoy. An inspiration to millions But it's a show Okay, take it from the top. Okay But I's not going to say the P word. I think you have to if we' doing. Okay, fine. fine. okay Sorry guys, this is the artistic process that works The actor becomes the director, okay Griston Reason Sak Hear you I'm the creator Creater of what Hod test gives hope. Joy Inspiration to millions. Aence sounds a little high a podcast Who will I You're the star or one of them real No, you were real That's what made you so good to listen to or everywhere O ears not on video Listen to me Griffin You can leave if you want. I won't try to stop you you won't survive out there We don't know what to do, where to go. Dss Soen Watched through your whole life also that's not in the actual movie This whole section. just in a movie. they cut it Okay, keep be hon. Using this script may have been a mistake. Yeah, that's been I What would you have suggested? The IMDB they? Is it just doing the normal I mean we gonna have all of this? Yeah. No idea, but I would assume yes. Okay Okay V not very quoted. Reset. Ret from the top. Should I go to IMDB and try to find it Let me find a few right now. You could have just asked. probably Yeah, because you famously look it up and offer every week. I don't look up and offer every week, but I'm sure I could I have a computer right here. You just ask. you have sent a shooting script that has like It still has like opper in it. I feel like usually they don't have They don't yes, I don't think they have all of it back and forth. Yeah. I mean they yeah, I mean, how many Well at least Ben has the cold clothes now Yes. I do for sure Yeah, you guys just got to do what you got to do. I you're You're working off the shooting script, I guess. I know. Okay. okay, wait, wait I got it. Is that o. I was like I was like, there's just lines in here that aren't didn't make the final edit of the movie. I mean, they wisely cut it down. exactly. You're dramatically weighty. Exactly Now do we want to Start from the top or just pick up No we're starting from the top. Start from page one. Listen I got I got it. I got it. Yeah, I got it. Truman show. I got it Just remember Griffin instead of Truman.