The Conviction and Lingering Questions

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Learn more at AMahealth versus hype. org That's AMahealthvs hype. org Welcome to Har Something Good on Women's Health and Longevity, brought you by Seneca in partnership with LifeMD. We talk to leading experts about the issues shaping women's health in midlife. From hormone therapy and weight management to sexual health and more, these conversations take a comprehensive look at the whole woman. exploring the latest science and practical steps women can take to support their long term health and wellbeing This series includes sensitive and potentially distressing topics including sexual assault and abuse involving children Listener disiscretion is advised Anthony De Pipppo and Andy Krevak were in county lockup for months, waiting separate trials They weren't the most popular inmates on the block, given their charges The rape and murder of a twelve year old girl One thing that's very hard for me to say is during this period of time, the guards and the inmates were urinating in my orange juice And at some point, I drank that. Anthony had acute gastritis from the rancid food in jail. And his scalp broke out in rashes from bathing in filthy water More intolerable still was know he didn't belong there It'd had nothing to do with Joseette's murder The newew Andy had no part in it either Still It was Andy who'd signed the confession that put him in this barrl. And so Anthony burned to get his best friend alone. and soon to find out why he betrayed him Eventually, they met in the jailhouse library There were guards nosing around, so they spoke in coded whispers Andy said the when the cops brought him in Brow beat him for hours Staldone Bill Quick screamed in his face Well one of them brandished his gun They refused over and over to let him speak to a lawyer What to use the jar or even call his father And then they seent him in with their lie detector guy an older cop named Dance Stehvens. Stehvens wired him up and interrogated him for hours told him he failed the polygraph As Andy sat there sobbing, Castaldo put a statement in front of him. nine page statement written out Quick As Anthony listened to his friend, he had a shock of recognition It was exactly what the cops had tried to do to him before his lawyer burst in and stopped them But Andy had no lawyer on retainer and He was broken by Castalo and Quick. and he was not leaving until he signed that statement So now here they both were equally fucked Nine months passed and his try was up first March, nineteen ninety seven, Krevak Picks' jury Three weeks later, on april sixteenth The jury came back with a verdict Anthony Pace in the Con areary waiting on Andy's return from court The day he came back, he's like, yo, I blew yo When a guy says they blew, that street talk for I lost for the trial. I blew trial. I remember he was walking right under the TV. just walked right by and said that should Anthony felt those words in the pit of his stomach. M It doesn't look good for me Now they know Andrew Crevak guilty of the murder And The media was against me Everybody was angry and they knew how to use that. The newspaper was putting my picture with the biggest beard that I had against the girl when she was seven. So you got this tiny, tiny girl and this big, big man. Everybody had an interest somehow in it and everybody wanted and believed that was me Next, it was Anthony's turn on the docket He felt doomed in advance And suddenly, weeks before his trial started, One of the biggest things in this case happens. I get a call to the visiting room. Dominic Nglia walks through all three hundred fifty pounds of him Stom Neglia, you'll recall, was the third kid in the car when Putnam cops caught them with angel dust. You'll also recall that those cops pulled them over moments after Dom stopped to make a phone call Dom knows if he actually dialed his grandma as he claimed orr if he made that call to tip off the cops In any case, Dom, it's something you want to get off his chest now And he sits down and he's basically on the edge of tears. He's like, I feel bad about Andy. I think this is my fault I made up the story. And he said, I told the police that you said to me, these things you didn't say to me and that you guys killed this girl. And I want to take my story back Tom spelled the story of how the cops coerced him They showed up unannounced at a school dragged him out of his special needs class so often that the principal banned them from campus So then they pulled the same stunt at Olive Garden, where he worked after school Pops rested him so often there. the manager fired him wasasn't all said down Then there was the physical stuff. Costaldo hit him in the back of the head with his handcuffs Down on all fours, Dom screamed he would sue Aostala looked at him and laughed. I don't know what you're talking about. We just saw you fall off your chair That's rich Gestaldo was finally caught on camera years later Beating and stomping and choking a defendant whose hands and feet were padlocked A studle lined through his teeth and said the attack never happened capaptured in glorious living color County's own security cameras. In the end, Dominic says he'd finally cave to make the torture stop He fed the cops some names he'd heard Anthony say. and said those guys were involved in Joseette's murder I said Damy wanted to take it all back. stand up in court and tell the truth Tell a jury that none of what he told the cops was true No sooner did Dom leave the jailhouse than Anthony called his lawyer The lawyer had done right to sign a recantation. And it was all in writing, I got you, I'm going fucking home This is the deevil's quuarry By the time the cops were done with Dom, he'd lost count of the times they dragged him in the talk He'd also lost count of the stories hed told them about the night of Joseette's murder Details changed wildly every time he opened his mouse of those stories, Anthony and Andy's involvement. became the crux of the cases against them The charges against twenty one year old Anthony DPippo are first degree rape and second degree murder. DePippo's trial is being held in the Putnam County courourthouse in Carmel. It's alleged to Pippo and another man, nineteen year old Andrew Kpick, killed twelve year old Josette Wright on october fourth, nineteen ninety four Anthony's case was tried in cararmel in the courthouse on the town's main road It was the old courthouse. So it looked like the courthouse from a Time to Kill. It was like, you know, high ceilings, wood pillars, portraits of white men from the eighteen hundreds. you know, And then also the judge looked like he was a white man from the eighteen hundreds, Judge Bratz Once again, Big Larry came through for Anthony He paid over sixty seven grand up frront to a primetime lawyer His name is Bob Leader And he had a certain swagger having a reputation for being the rare attorney in Putnam County. Murder case. Bob Leer looks like Saddam Hussein Do you remember Saddam smoking a cigarette You know, just calling people. Bob leader's face Whatas the same face I trusted him. I felt like I had A shot A pretrial hearing leader argued his motion to call Big Dom as a witness As the original accuser argued, Dom was essential to the case. He did try really try to get Dominiic Negley on understand, but the judge was just wasn't having it. He denied the application to use Dominic Ngla Why did that judge? an old saw horse named Bill Brats Bar Dom from testifying. He said Dom's testimony was quote, conjectural collateral that it didn't seem His word reasonable And so he decided what the jury would weigh I leave that task up to the jury. So that just stuck the knife in the heart of my freedom. I was done One of Anthony's trial, the Putnam DA went firsturst He told the jury a version of the story that Dom told of teens hanging out at the gas station in town partartying gone off the rails in a van owned by Andy's dad. murder of a twelve year old girl by Andy and Anthony The DA declared he had a direct eyeewitness who had testify to that H Must Denise Rodose Horseshoe Online Casino has a special offer for you, New Jersey. New users can get five hundred bonus spins in their first month on games like Huff and lots of puff and more. It's simple and rewarding to play your casino favorites. Download and play today. Must be twenty one plus and physically present in New Jersey. minimum wagering within five days required to unlock bonuses. 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Call eight hundred three thirty four K Free details host safree event and seven hundred six twenty six to deealer for warranty details The Declaration which is full of these beautifully rendered you know, sentences and paragraphs about enlightenment ideals. does also have this darker history to it Why is it important for the darker part of the Declaration of Independence and the American Revolution Why is it important that Americans know about it Well, if we don't understand, The full context in which our nation was founded We won't understand the full context in which our nation now finds itself I'm Rebecca Nagl, Gohin Daaton, Jlelica Yetli, Ga, citizen of Cherokee Nation. Are you guys big chef fans? Hell yeah. This is First America, the true story of how the United States came to be and how we got to this present moment. Listen to First America on the IiHart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts J' do Palmo swear that the testimony are about to give will be the truth. The whole truth are nothing but the truth to help you God When have you ready Before we hear from Denise The one person who claims to have seen Josette's murder We're going to jump forward twenty years to an inquiry launched by Anthony's lawyers. The focus of that inquiry The handling of the Joose setright murder by the Putnham Sheriff's offffice or to put a fine point on it The handling of that case by investigator Castaldo and his partner Quick Weeks of depositions were taken in that probe The lead lawyer for Anthony's team was Nick Breston U F Fair to say this was the biggest case of your career? Yes, sir. Not even close, right Unfortunately though That's Pack Gastaldo. The Ev this loving bruiser It was it was a horrific murder and rape of a twelve year old girl. Rpe and murder of a twelve year old child. The b as it gets? I would think so But your job That's all you were doing. Yes, sir. Every day all day This once once have found into a murder case, yes, sorry I'll remind you that Castaldo had never worked on murder before Right from the start, it showed That was your first murder case. Yes, I did not have the experience hands on. I was not a person that investigated a lot of homicides And this is Bill Quick talking. He was Colely detective in Joseette's murder and the one who handwrote all the witness statements from teens allegedly in the van when Joseette died Quick was another old school law Though with his brush moustache and dust bulk complexion, the lawman he most resembled was Wyatt Erb. Well I have certain rules I would by. I've lived by these rules all my life And I brought that into law enforcement. What are those rules you live? Those rules are basically that you do the right thing all the time. Everything that you can do to do it properly, you can't make assumptions. Hi Castal. The night the boys were busted for PCP Dom volunteered a tip about the murder Dominic Nglia told me about the van and the people that were there. and when he gave me the name of the people, I wanted to speak to these people Mbe they had information involving what could have happened to J set. The details of Dom's story would vary wildly over time Gist of it was this On the night of Joseette's murder, she was in the back of the van owned by Andy's dad. With her in that fan were Anthony and Andy and three other Putnham teams O the street kids. They were all troubled every single one of Pps who were especially interested in one of those troubled teens. raised hand A girl named Denise Rose.'m swear that the testony you' about today will be the truth. The whole truth, N nothing but the truth. Yes. Thank you. U Good morning, Miss Rose. Good morning. Have you ever had your deposition taken before Anthony and Denise had been in grade school together And then in high school Their taste for drugs brought them closer Denise Rose was somebody in my same grade. I just knew Denise Rose from being in school and then I kind of became more friendly with her like during high school High school is generally when the stoners find each other And like Anthony, Denise had zero fear She jumped into a car to prowl the South Bronx alone girl looking for crack cocaine on some of the deadliest streets in America I mean, we mutually enjoyed doing drugs and we mutually enjoyed go and get drugs. and then we would go to kind of cool places while we were doing drugs We go to the beach, we go to the cliffs overlooking eighty four and like, you know, you smoke and you look out and it's kind of like, you know, you got like a pretty background to get eye to You know, when you're tripping or you're smoking something, you know, you want to be in kind of these settings that are kind of nice Denise had him over to her folks's house for dinner But it never turned romantic, says Anthony Except for one drug email and they hooked up I had moments of weakness and she was right there. I had a lot of hormones going on. I needed to get rid of them. then Got on high And then I'm like what am I doing? I'm saying I'm sorry I can't And then I'm like, well, I got to go to this club tonight, but I don't want to be hanging out with you. So I put her down and I think I put her down a little too hard A few weeks after he told Denise he' want to hang with her Anthony tried to patch things up because he'd been whacked by guilild because he needed to ride to the city. That went about as well as you'd expect I tried to call her and she was very dismissive and I thought it was because of the way I kind of like broke it off with her I didn't knowrter Nes was talking to the cops or that cararmel. Kayback really is a bitch twentywenty years later, Denise was one of the people deposed by Anthony's lawyers Here she is in twenty nineteen Questioning from Nick Bruster And When someone says to you, do you remember how many times you smoked crack? I wanted to say to him, do you remember how many times you wiped your ass since there were no recordings made at Anthony's trial We're using the tape from this deposition to give you a sense of Denise's testimony But per introduce her Here's some facts about Denise's involvement with Anthony's case Cistaldo and quuick holder in the first time april second, nineteen ninety six. perspective that was five months after Joseette's body was found Five months after Anthony and Andy were busted for PCP Gistaldo and quick talked to her for many hours that day. State as Bill Quick wrote it down Zero mention of a murder. At the end of it, Castalda told her to keep her nose clean Spoiler alert, she didn't The very next day, Denise lost her shit. She was driving with some friends when she saw a girl she didn't like Opposite. She had a history with me A girl named Elena was driving the car in front of her on the road for a report Lena made to police. Destenese chased Elena through several towns And then battle ram the rear end of a car Helena told the cops that Denise got out of her car dashed in a window Denise denied this, but well, here's Bruston asking about her history with ball bats You had gotten into some trouble before that. by driving around and having you or people in your car smashing mailboxes with a baseball backack. correct? Everybody does that. so what? Denise was promptly arrested for ramming Elena's car and hit with four charges for it One of those charges was a felony She could have gotten seven years for that yet somehow The day after she ramed the girl's car Denise was stopped yet again in her car. This time, the cops got her for erratic operation of her vehicle She failed a field sobriety test, was arrested on the spot for DUI That night in a rock up Denise made a big commotion. I was in there in a paper suit And I was screaming at whoever was at the desk I know something you don't know And um And said about I guess it was around two in the morning. I said, I want to speak to officer or investigator Cristalo right now after you got arrested You One of the things you said was get Gestalo here because I have more information to give him, correct? Yes. I was trying to say Let me out of here because I know about a murder So Cistaldo got out of bed and met with her in lock up According to both of them, they didn't talk about a murder. Deny says he was only there a few minutes. Three minutes W you kidding me Three minutes is not enough time to talk about a murder Gistalo agrees they spoke that night, but not about Joseette's murder. He says he woke up late at night. to serve a restraining order from Elena. do that. I went in the back. it was seconds. I went in the back. She was there. you're asking me I remember something from way back the best of my knowledge. I went there, She was giving the papers and I was outed there I did not have a cons decation, okay There's no tape of that encounter or scribble notes So no way to know what they did discuss By the way, Denise Rose never asked you for any favors, correct Nothing. And you never offered her any favors, correct? No. But here's what we do now Several hours after they met the lockup, Denisa's bail was erased She was allowed to go home and a day or two after that Gistaldo says he was puttering around cararmel when he had an epiphany. I do remember we were driving down on Fast Street and I said to myself We have to close the knes flors back I remember, we were driving down Fast Street and they just said I need to speak to her again. I just felt I needed to talk to her again. I thought she may have more information Truth is, he and Quick spoke to her many times after that A couple of weeks later, according to Denise She finally just sort of I't myself anymore. Okay. And I figured I didn't tell them the whole truth, so I better go there as soon as possible and tell them before I explode inside I can't live with this and the family needs to know The Jose Sette's family needs to know. It's not fair to them Okay, I can deal this. I have to get this off my chest And so Three weeks after she first talked to the cops, Denise met with Castaldo and Quick again Cistaldo says he got things started. My should Denise I know what happened I said, I know what happened to Gissette, right? And he And right after I said that, she turns around, she bang, She says, they raped, they tied, they gagg and they dumped her in the woods Quick wrote out her statement that day It said that Denise witnessed the rape and murder of Josead Wot But what was omitted from that statement was something Caldo said moments before she agreed to sign it. They said, you can get twenty five pS to light if you're caught on this crime. And so Lickety split and he signed that statement. 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Kia, Movement that inspires. Call eight hundred thirty three four Ka Free details hostos a free event and seven six twenty six S dealer for warranty details The Declaration which is full of these beautifully rendered you know, sentences and paragraphs about enlightenment ideals. does also have this darker history to it Why is it important for the darker part of the Declaration of Independence and the American Revolution Why is it important that Americans know about it Well, if we don't understand The full context in which our nation was founded. We won't understand the full context in which our nation now finds itself. I'm Rebecca Nagel, Gohin, Daadon, Jekca Yetli, Gaya, citizen of Cherokee Nation. Are you guys big chief fans? Hell yeah. This is First America, the true story of how the United States came to be and how we got to this present moment Listen to First America on the IiHart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts Denise and Hann the cops chased the other teens goom named. Bold and Andy Krevak again This time they threatened and coerced him for hours I' been into signing a false confession session accusing Anthony of Joseette's murder And finally, they arrested Anthony to Pipppo Then there was no need to coerce or trick him. They had statements from four of his friends Now, if all the cops had done was coerce these kids. There's a real chance that none of this comes to light Cops in America coerce confessions all the time Wouldn't know dozens of such cases over the years In this case, Castaldo and Quick were just getting started is remember They had no forensics to bring to court the heat was really on them to make a murder charge stick So they bent or broke the law in a dozen different ways Here's in major, for instance It's standard procedure for cops to record interviews in cases involving serious crimes Even back in the nineties, Putnam County had tape recorders to use without witnesses knowledge For these cups. We had audiotapes so we didn't use them. It was just the way I did things. Brust and Anthony's lawyer pounced on that point The best way to record a witness interview or a suspect interview is to tape record. No, I disagree with that. You disagree with that No s You don't recall her being trained on that. trained? Yes, sir. No, I was trained that way. I don't think that's the best way. Okay. So let's stick with training first. Which brings us to point two and cOop protocol where no recording devices are available Standard practice is to have witnesses write out statements in their own words and handwriting. But again, that wasn't the way Gastaldo and Quick did things. Gistaldo was the one asking all the questions. Quick was the one writing the statements. You can understand it. Quick had an excellent penmenship. Except that even that wast hard and fast rule Castaldo and Quick interviewed lots of people over the course of this investigation And far too often nothing was written down For example They met with Denise many times after she first came into the station They show Bter house to chat with her But only three of their many sit downowns with Denise were memorialized in writing. Sometimes you didn't take no, sometimes we just took the statement It sounds like Unless a witness gave you a statement, agreed to sign a statement, you didn't necessarily document that that interview was conducted. cororrect?jection I may haveaven and I may not have. Under oath, Quick admitted that there were things he didn't write down. One things that didn't fit his narrative of the case For example, some of Joseette's friends said they saw Josette after october fourth, nineteen ninety four day the cops claimed she was raped and murdered. These were people who knew Joseette well and who claimed to have talked to her at the Dan Bury Mall after that date He wrote down some of these accounts, but Quick admits There were others he dismissed as rumors. You know, And It was just utterly ridiculous. You didn't write any of those rumors down No, because we couldn't verify whether they were true or not. Well could you could have caused them be. Okay. So no rumors allowed from local witnesses Got it except There was nothing but rumors to implicate Anthony and Andy And all those got written down and placed in the final case file There's more Not only did they fail to properly document their probe, Gastaldo and Quick pled total ignorance to the most basic laws of evidence Take for example, the Brady rule Brady requires cops to turn over any evidence that comes up in the course of investigation that would help the defendant to trial including information that would discredit police officers It's been the laaw of the land since nineteen sixty three and every cop in America knows about Brady. It's taught from week one at the Academy Alas, said Castaldo Under oath in twenty nineteen That part of his training? Yeah, that part didn't stick Eri is again under questioning by Nick Breuston Now Would it be fair to say that you don't recall ever receiving any training on what's called exculpatory evidence or Brady material No, sir. You never heard those terms, right? I've heard the terms but I don't remember getting training them. What do they mean I mean, I' just heard, I don't know I couldn' tell you right now. Okay. do you know what exclulatory evidence means? exxplain for me now. I w't know if you know. No, o Wait, there's more In Criminal law there's something called impeachment evidence evidence that shows that witnesses in the case may be untruthful. mistaken or unreliable two must be turned over to the defense Staler didn't do that either Har what impeachment evidence is I think what it's a peace for evid Well basically what' trying to do the president of the United States is to beach him Bring up charges against him Yes, you heard that right Gastestaldo, senior investigator for the Putnam Sheriff's Office thought impeachment pertained to the crimes of President of the United States to the witnesses he manipulated to implicate Anthony to Pipo Eistala was the lead detective in the rape murder case of Joseette Wright. It turnurns out, He didn't that the least idea had to legally do his job established who the cops and their star witness were Let's jump back to Anthony's trial in ' ninety seven in these rows, you'll recall had just taken the stand to tell the jury her version of events This is what she swore to on the stamp On the night of october third, nineteen ninety four Two boys pulled up to her house, she claimed And he was at the wheel of his dad's brown van. Anthony was in the passenger seat She opened the slider to hop in, she says. and There were no seats in the back when he picked me up from my house Sitting on the floor, she said It was twelve year old Josette rightight. She had on blue jeans, a brown jacket and a white t shirt D' jumped in beside her, she said Andy then drove to the Sitgo station in town where ten or twelve teens were loitering outside smmoking dope and pounding beers in full view passing cop cars A few hours later, she said, she got back in the van with Andy, Anthony, and Josette Only now they were joined by two other teams Bill McGregor and Adam Wilson point said Denise, she thought they were dropping her home Instead, Andy took off in the other direction Northbound towards Fields playay. I wanted to go home and they didn't take me home. It took me to go kill a girl I wasasn't expecting that. Denise says Andy stopped and parked on Field's lane It's a dirt road shortcut to Connecticut that's bounded on both sides by woods That night it was his blackest har out there No street lights, no porch lights from houses because there were no houses. Not back then there weren't. Even the moon was dark that night And as for the van's lights Dome lights, track lights. She says they weren't on either Dennis claimed, she saw everything that happened next She said the boys pulled out some PCP and smoked it in the back of the van. And then during a game of spin the bottle. And he kissed Josette said Denise When you said resist it And he threw her as a floor He yanked her jeans and underwear over her sneakers Her hands were swinging. and then he took her hands something like this in front of her She showed jurors how we tied Josette's hands in front of her body There was a rope in the van just on the floor somewhere And she claimed, Andy shoved Josette's underwear in her mouth. then took a brrawn tied it around her head At which point she said he raped her. Just inches from Josette. Denise watched this all go down At some point she said, she protested Leave her alone, she's just a baby Point claim Denise. Anthony leaned over screaming He stood up and said, shhut the fuck up, you're next And then according to Denise, he told Andy Yo yo, save some of that for me It's my turn, save some of that for me According to Denise, Anthony Rpe Joseet next stop, she said Just that wasn't moving She was completely lifeless They wrapped her nylon jacket around her waist brown nline jacket around her waist and they carried her out She said she sat in the van in silence while the boys carried Josette out the back doors Anthy said she sat there for fifteen or twenty minutes Boys came back Without Josette And I ask, Where's a girl Someone said She's sleeping, she passed out and the other one said No, her mom's coming to pick her up She claimed Anthony ordered her to keep her mouth shut be the next one dead. was her explanation for why she kept mum E Staldo dragged her in over a year later No, no no, no, no, no. I didn't even tell a damn priest I was petrified. L my Godd, I'm going to die cross examination, Denise claims she just there after the boys left to bury Joseet's body. girl who'd cruised the South Bronx to buy crack who admitted to smashing a cop's mailbox with a bat. That girl just sat there and did nothing Nor did she attempt to flee when the two boys were in the woods trial she can see that the keys were right there in the ignition. All she'd had to do was start the van driveh straight to the sheriff's office For all the holes in Denise's story, the jury found her persuasive Particularly, they was struck by the tiny detail. She remembered Like the costume jewelry, Joseette was wearing the night she was in the van here's the thing Denise also told the jury she had help with those details showed her all their evidence at the station before she signed a statement saying she witnessed Joseette's murder Billy quick, show me the earring and the pendant And said I remember that now. And it was in and it came in a brown paper bag and he said I'd like to show you a few pieces. jewelry and some other things. and I said, okay The brown jacket was in there, the shoes, the jeans and the earring pendent T shir countounting, that's the fifth rule those two cops broke Don't show evidence to a witness Above all, not before they've given their statements called witness tampering And somehow it gets worse Now On april second, one of the things that u Gistaldo did wasas he took you to the van and he opened the passenger door side so you could look inside it, correct? Yeah Cops took her down to their parking lot where they had the Brown van in custody They let her look around the van's interior Once again, strictly forbidden. Oh in another hole in Denise's story That fan she claimed Joseette was killed in It wasn't even drivable when she went missing At trial, Anthony's lawyer put on a mechanic to testify to this put on the mechanic that said The van could have been operable because it had a crack drive shaft. It was on blocks, flat tires, there was a transmission problem. So it was inoperable on the night in question But at Anthony's trial And several decades later y stuck to her story. People wake up. I the one that saw the murder take place by Cbette and Depppo. So let's recap Stinney's claimed she'd witness the murder of Joseette Wright in a van that couldn't have been driven At a location in the woods with no source of light completely moonless night And what about the other teens allegedly in the van Besides Denise and Andy and Anthony and Josette Both were teens that Anthony knew. One of them was Adam Wilson partarty hardy Kid who also sold drugs and cararmel The other was Bill McGregor kid from nearby Brewster who is fighting his own battle with drugs Before the trial, Putnam Cops brought both of them in separately They grilled each of them for many hours and got them to sign statements The detective quick wrote out At Anthony's trial, Adam Wilson took the stand and recanted his statements to those cops He testified they'd sweated him for twelve straight hours denied him is rape to make a phone call. warned him me to either swear that he'd seen the murder. charged as Josette's killer. And so he, like Domen Andy claimed that he too signed a statement just to get out of that room The second he got home, though, he called his mother and a lawyer.