Shiraz and Cheese Pairing

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Learn more at Sophi dot com slash spotify . Hello and welcome to Bottoms Up with Alan Car and Lee Peart. This is our weekly wine podcast where we open a bottle, answer your wine questions , and bluff our way through it like two people who once went to a vineyard and went, yeah, we can do that . And we're also joined by wine power house Helen McGinn. Yeah, she'll be here later on, but before that we have got our welcome drink and this you've chosen this a bit of Jean Jin. And now I love this. It's Fisher's Gin and I took my mum for her seventieth birthday and all the family to Suffolk. And we went to old Brown. Now I never know if it's older bugger . I think old bugger and suffer . Is it too far out what you said to your mum on her birthday? There you go. Old bugger. I'm taking you to old bugger. I'm bringing your friend suff er . No Why is everything like rude in suffer ? Old Bugger? No, I've never looked at the word suffer and thought , Soo fuck. Like it's you. That's a good drag night. So this is if you like a gin this is a ginny gin. Jinny Gin gin. Yeah. You know, I used to be such a gin guy and I still am. I do like a gin, but it's not as much my go to anymore. It's weird. But way back when kind of in my twenties, I think gin was having a kind of big surge wasn't it? And there were so many nice gins. There's so many now and this looks the bottle again you like a label. I love a label and all the botanicals are from that part of the world and the distillery is by the sea. You know when you have a gin and you want a gin that's a gin that tastes like a gin. You want it to cook through? And it's quite savory as well. I love it. Listen, have a little taste. Not icing that I have already maybe had a slight situation. Do you get it? It's very ginny, isn't it? And also can I just say orange slice ? Well , do you want to know a little secret about me and gin? Yeah . If I have three glasses, I get blotchy . Well I will take that to my grave secret now on it. I don't know what it is. We might speak to Helen about it later. Analogy, analogy. No, we shouldn't speak to Helen. We should get like Dr. Raj or Hillary because why? I have free glasses and I get like basically the outline of Iraq on my face and it's purple and I think I'm allergic to juniper . Maybe you are, but I love gin. I think for me gin , I can't have too much of it obviously because of Blochgate. Well, why don't we why don't you drink more throughout the show and let's see how you get on You want to see a rack ? Ear rack, here rack . It's itchy too. Oh , that sounds like an allergy. You're allergic. This is an exclusive. We finally found an alcohol. Allan can't drink. I know. I love God . And I like a gin gin on a sunny day I won't stick with gin . I like gin as a nice sitting by the seat and that's why I loved it in older burger burger burger. That's why I liked it. And it's my mum's seventy and of we just sat on the seafront. It was freakishly warm weather. The spirit of the coast itself. It's like the spirit of the coast. It's perfect to see it watching the world go by. I miss out on that lovely pavilion and I just thought, o,h I'm going to buy a bottle of that because it's UK based. And we love that. Love that. And listen, I saw you on a red carpet . And normally I'm used to seeing your face down on a door match What was you doing on the red carpet? Well, you know, I mean you were looking very slick and you did a dance routine. I both did a dance routine. Well, there's two actually. I did two in one week. I'm moving up in the world babes. It's who g riroutlsine. No, no, red carpets off December before we can walk . And so I went to HBO Max launch. That was amazing. Oh my god. So sometimes you go to these events as you will know. You don't know whether they're going to be good or whether they're going to be a bit. Well, I watched in this HBO maxing. It was like a star Lisa Cudre Jane. You loved her. You love the comeback. You got me into the comeback. I love the comeback. It's like a cult show and it's it started years ago this three, this is the third season. Loved it. So she walked past me and did that. Did you get the impression she knew who you were . Do you reckon she watches bottoms up? I saw her go, Oh my god, that's Leip z. Really? No . No she walked past and she's the thing is I was thinking about her like I, wonder when like at these events she's always got someone there ushering her like you can't just stand there chatting, but James Norton was there. Woof, woof, wolf yes. And it was this amazing event. They kitted it out like a big house party and each room was like there was a kitchen. There was jelly shots in the fridge and there were staff were fit I will say that because I used to work in promo work so I would be booked on jobs like this. Outside front or in the kitchen. Well, I was going to say, I look round, I said to my friend, I said, 'cause the staff were all I said, I would be on cloakroom for this lie. Like, there's no way 'cause this man opened the fridge. He was like, Would you like a jelly shot? And I just went, Yes . And he was unreal. I worked in a gay cafe on Oxford Street in Sydney and it was the fittest g aze ever. I went for the job. Guess what I was? Dishpig . Was a dishpig? I wasn't allowed to come front of house. I was just with the was itool?? C Wasn't the do flaps? They put the dirty dishes in? Oh , and you know me and they'd go dish pig and I'd go and I'd just come through and grab . And I became a bit of a minor celebrity because people know who the dish this was a bit like Cosimodo, Hunch Packer Natural? Yeah, that was it. Yeah. Did they ever let you out like on the feast? Oh, I was too ugly. No, but remember Cosimodo had one day where he went out. Did you ever get that? No that No, they didn't parade me in the space with people throwing rotten veg at me. Oh funny that dish poop It was just a funny story that I thought that you've now twist ed into they whipped me into the market square. They didn't. Oh Dude because I wasn't a looker so it's all the fit people out the front. Yeah, well that was like hollis ter. Like you called Hollister everyone was the lights on him. Oh, I know. I used to think why are you hiring fit people? You can't even see him I get a job in there. But then I went I hosted I then hosted a red carpet the, K inky Boots Gala. Oh yeah, and that was funny. It was quite chaotic because they closed down St. Martin's Lane and they had a big red carpet. But I've got a little bit of beef with someone who I do like, Christopher Big gins? No . You've got beef with Biggins. I've got beef. Biggins. Could that be Biggins beef? It's gonna be a segment in the show . Beef, we're biggins . What's Biggins done? He's one of the nicest people you could meet. You must have pissed him off. No, he was lovely. He walks up on the red carpet . I go, Biggins is here, everyone, cheers. He goes to me, you get everywhere . Thank you, Biggins . Peace was here at the HBO . I'm like, you're also, you know, he's a social art. He goes places, isn't he? Yeah, you get everywhere, saying that to you, that's a slap in the vlog. I thought hot till Biggins. Anyway, it was great. It was stars at Michael Ball , Graham Norton. Graham, which was great to see him . And Johannes Radabay, Matt Cardell, who was starring in it, Johannes. Oh my God , the presence of Johannes, like, oh, his entrance in this musical just comes up and it's like, Boom, I've arrived . I wish I had that presence. Well, you don't . And about King Boo's based in North Hampton? I thought of you actually. I thought an idea on the red carpet? Oh, you were busy, you were busy. But I found it awkward on the red carpet. I found it quite like hosting it was fine 'cause I was kind of there in a job thing, but when it was that when I've done them before, you just don't really know where to stand. You start standing where you must have done them loads. Well, like the thing is on like first world problems, but if you're lucky enough to be nominated for an award , you get out the car, you got all the p acks shouting Oh , Allen like this. Now this now people know me, but when I started doing them, I would be with like Amanda Holden or Melanie Syze and people wouldn't know my name goes. You were the chief. You were the chief And of course they get more money. Did you dish big? Get over here. Iraq . Yeah, and then some they get more money if they're with for a beautiful woman. So if someone I'd go out with Melanie Sitter did the radio show, you know, would go out and know Amanda Holden or something. So me, I would bring the price of the photo down and they would go on your own Amanda, not you. You were the chief move. Oh my and then I would just be standing there like that. There is an etiquette and a hierarchy. Oh . So and I think sometimes you get there and then you have to have chats with the press and sometimes they're trying to catch you out. Well, I've had it before because sometimes you get sent in there. I remember going to a Katie Perry one and they're all like that and I don't choose to do it. They go right, go through, stand for a photo there. And I've had it before where the cameras are like that because someone like Amanda Holden are Allen Car's there, I walk there, they just put the camera down. They can't even be bothered to take it. They're like no point wasting the storage. I know. So at least yours is worth something . Well, I mean the cameras now they could have just even if they just pressed the flash just to make you feel like they were taking it just go like , you know , looking . Thank you. You still got the cap on Well, you know, and red carpets suppose I'll be bloody heading down one in my god. I know you hate those awards shows for my two Baff denominations. One cut that out . Alan, this is amazing. Two Bafton 's, two Baft omations. You've got one for the moment of the year, is it Muslim? Yeah, I was in a show called Celebrity Traitors Annuar. Yeah, yeah, it's no the comment . And then Alan and Alan and Amanda's Spanish job. Yes, I thought it was greed job, a Spanish job. That's good. So me and Amanda will be doing the red carpets, so I'm sure she's buying some cheese wire and two post it notes to pop on but that's exciting. But then also I'm gonna, even though I'm not Baptist nominated for this show, I'm still gonna take all the glory . Changing ends . Oliver Savelle. Yeah, well, you wrote it. Yeah, the boy who plays me yes . Yes. So up for Bapt ism in a way . It's free. It's three. It's free. It's three baptoms. Yeah, I'm going to stick with that. Yeah. And I think Graham Norton show and you've been on that, so that's four . That's. brilliant Yeah, yeah, naked attraction. I watched that religious naked five. Is that for a battle? That's a really old bike . That's not for a wanker I don't know what . So yeah. Amazing. So we toast . This is Fisher's gin, spirit of the coast all the way from Suffolk , Suffolk Bums up . Ordering a bottle of wine in a restaurant is a bit of a performance, isn't it? A bit of nodding, a bit of yes and then pointing at the second cheapest bottle of wine on the menu saying yeah, I love that one . Well in the perfect pairing do I say that right? Perfect Alec Carry on . M ande Alan are here to help. This is the segment where we're basically going to be pairing wine with actual food and seeing which one figuring out which one works. And today we're at the we love this place're. at We the broadc aster in White City, trying their delicious menu, and we're having, I believe, a champagne chicken and leek pie with tarragon mash. And we're going to put to the test two wines and see which one pairs perfectly with that dish? Okay , Rich, Rich, where are you ? I'm coming . Oh here's wow, whatever we call What a tasty looking dish and the pies not looking bad either . I've been on the gym. I know like last week . Okay. So Rich, this is mainly . So tell us about this dish. So we've got a chicken pie that's made with champagne, mustard . It's a bechemel, which is how we cook the sauce with the liquid that we cook the chicken in. Nice. It's got plenty of leeks in there, a little button mushrooms, and then on the side , we've got quite a rich, it's like a fifty fifty mash. I love that. That's what we call it. Half butter, half mash. Oh, I love a big dollop of tarragon oil and tarragon. Oh . So did you know put milk with it ? In what? The but in the pot milk with it? Cream. Cream. This is not like cream. It's not like milk. Oh, I've jabbed me as Zen pig today as well . So no, this is not one for light and health at all. No, a cold wire. It smells gorgeous. It looks gorgeous. And as a chef, where should you put the diving? Is there right? Once you open it, lash it on. Oh, you open. Okay, lovely. Wicked . Right. Thank you so much. Rich. I will say though, Rich, my sisters they love gravy, they would be a little bit concerned over the portion size. A portion size of this. But is that common? It costs a lot . It takes two days to make that. Yes. Okay, well eggs chips . Okay, all back Thanks so much. It smells delicious. Let's do it before we get. called Joy Thank you very much so much. Thank you . Right, let's tuck in. So we've got the oh my god, I'm excited. What did he say? We got to take the top off and pour the thing in. Oh, did he say that immediately? That's the best way to put the gra vy in. Oh , but you know, I would just cut it in half, let's not. I just frack a little bit off the top . Oh , look at this. It smells lovely. He said pour it in didn't pour it in pour in. So while you do that, let me explain gravy and we've got two we've got two time I would not have bored the gravy like that, but never mind. How can you what's the correct way to pour gravy? He said put it in the pie . I'm not going to argue with you. We've got a perfect pairing to do. It's like we're having a domestic overdail. No , no, no, could it? No, pull no back on continuity for continuity. No one can tell that no one can tell there's been rapid. Cut back, cut back . Right. We've got let's not have gravy with this . Right, focus for God's sake. right. So we've got a p ifu , okay? That's this one. It's a white burgundy premium chardonnay, all right? Buttery, soft , you know, go for it. Involved. Buttery, soft orchard fruit with a little toasted almond moment. Has enough weight to sit with a crit before you eat though? Face flaps . Before you eat, let's have a taste. Before you put it in, let's have a taste. We're getting on my nerves today . No, taste the white. Like an old married couple. Don't put the graveyard . Taste it. Let's see how it is without and then we have it and then we do it back. So a bit of this . Mhm . So this says it has enough weight to sit with creamy sauce without disappearing. I don't think you would like that, would you? I do like that. Oh, you do. Interesting. He's creamy. Mirrors the mash and leek so all the flavors tie together . So let's have a little bit. I'm gonna have a bit of mash here. I'm gonna have a little bit of I've been eating a lot of mash recently. Have you? Why? Have fun . You've just been into it. I love a bit of a good so delicious. So it's a cozy but still chic option. So if you're ordering a pie , let's have this. Okay . See how that affects the taste . It's the most chaotic . I swear people don't invite me around for dinner because there's always some drama . I still am baffled by how different it tastes when you've had a little bit of that. It's so much nicer. Yeah. Now it might be a little bit of a rogue option to then drink champagne when you're eating a pie. I don't think I would ever order that. Yeah. I would maybe have champagne to star something like that. Yeah, but you found you usually have like champagne with little bits, don't you like picky bits? Well, volevants. Exactly. Well, is it volvant? Yeah. So it's crisp, it's celebratory house champagne, bright and citrusy with a lovely toasty brioche note. The bubbles cut through the pastry that goes all the way down. It says the bubbles cut through the pastry. It keeps swallowing weirdly . So it says the bubbles cut through the pastry and cream so it never feels heavy. It lifts the dish and keeps each bite fresh , turning the pie into a bit of a party. would never have ordered champagne to drink with my pie. Never . That I'd prefer to the fuel. You're joking. No, I'm not. So what are we saying? Got with the champagne house champagne at the broadcast perfect with a pie and that is a good pie. That's a perfect p airing with the pie from Piet and Palen a . Joining us today is someone who knows her way around a bookshelf as well as a wine glass. She is the queen of the supermarket shelves. It's the knackard mother herself . It's Helen again . That's a long censored ? And no, also cute. I'm impressed. Thank you. Helen, welcome. So I'm thrilled you're here because I followed you on Instagram a while back and do we call you Helen or do we call you the knacked mother? What do you go? Well, whatever you want. I mean, I answer to both to be honest. So yeah. So Helen's fine. Yeah. And you're a wine expert, aren't you? And you review it, is that right? Because sometimes I'm like, look what do you class yourself as? If you were gonna, you know, you know, on your signature on an email, you know, when you put like CEO or whatever, what's your title? Mine on my email it says author slash Wino. Oh , what it is. And tell me about Saturday Kitchen because they asked me to go on it and it's too early in the morning . Oh, but you don't have to I mean we're, in there from six in the morning. I have my first sip of wine at about quarter to seven . You don't, I mean, you down to Maybe I will make a cameo appearance. I'll do it . You didn't have to be until a bit later. Oh, okay. That's nine. Because he bakes that job look very hard because you've got to talk and cook and you've seen me cook. Well, no, you've never seen me cook. Celery risotto? Celery risot to. I like a risotto. You can just leave it in the pan, go out, do some shopping and not show what you mean. You don't do the stirring. A risotto come back, you've got an rioto, boom. It's just all the waters disappeared magic . Here at Bottoms Up, we say, Leave your risotto unattended . How did you get into the wine world then? . What did you Come on, we need a drink that Yes. I'll talk and pour, I'll talk and pour. I mean, I'm looking at this wine and I'm gaggy even though I've had a gin, a white wine. So I was So actually we have something in common. All three of us used to work at a well known supermarket . Every little house. Every little house that little greek village near Brinkle. That's the one I was a supermarket wine buyer there for a decade. you were never on the front line . Oh, I stacked shelves in my time. I was in head office. Look at me . Look at me getting territorial . You're not one of us at all, Helen. No, no, 'cause you always had to do your time on the shop floor no matter what. You've never collected a trolley that's been pushed in a canal. I would think you should keep the pound You always kept the pound. That was your bonus. It was sadly, yes . I was customer service, you know? Oh were you? How was that? Great, the power went to my head . I did once have a customer letter from someone who wrote and complained that the advocate she was giving her children was making them sick . Oh god did you just go write? I'm having a change. I want to write about it or did someone poach you and ask you to come and write for something? Like how did that happen? I had kids . So when you have kids, so I was traveling all the time in my own job and then kids I had . So I changed job from the wine bang from the traveling all the time . But I started a wine blog, this is fifteen years ago called the Knack of Mother's Wine Club. And I started it to stop my friends from calling in a panic on a Friday from the wine and I'll say, What shall I buy? 'Cause people come to you for it. Yes. So the blog the blog became a book which then became a newspaper column and then ended up . And you got a new book coming out in May, I hear? I have, Alan. I have it's called the Supermarket Wine Guide and it's out on the twenty first of May, available to pre order . And I am so excited because it is like I've picked the top twenty to twenty five wines from all the different retailers . So in this book you can open it up. You can I take you virtually shopping. So go to the wine aisle make it easy. I'll say what color you're after, how much do you want to spend? What are you eating? And then you have a list of all the wides that I've recommended. We need this. I love that. I love it. Because it can just be like and then you look. And I often then look at like the price because I go for the label, I go for the font. Most of us do that to be on well that's all you've got to go on and time. So it's marketing, but you do it by price as well in the book, don't you? Yeah, it's by price brackets. So there's about one hundred eighty odd wines in there. Half of them are under a tenor because I'm nothing if not cheap, and then the rest are they're all in price brackets because you don't you don't have to spend a lot to get a really good wine . We've done it in price brackets because obviously prices move all the time because dut y is going up all the time and prices. So it's done under ten, ten to fifteen, fifteen to twenty and over twenty. Amazing and . There it is. I have the book. Here look s. How does it feel when you see your book for the first time? I know that this isn't the moment you've probably seen it for the first time. Well, this is it. No, it does. I'm surprised. Like in general . I think you're going to like it, Helen. We've printed this out ourselves. Thank you very much. Yeah, I'm so excited. I can't wait to share it with people. I really can't because I feel that is like, you know, the decades of wine experience I've got has gone into that book and I still buy my wine in the supermarket all the time because it's convenient. Yeah . If you've got an independent wine shop near you brilliant go and use it, but there are so many good wines in the supermarket as well. You've taken the hard work out of it, really. Earth. Yeah, yeah, it's great. I love this quote on the front from Graham Northern never experience the taste of regret again. There's nothing sadder than buying a crap wine. Yeah, yeah. And you don't know until you get at home either. That's too late. What's gonna do? You don't know until maybe you have a snack with it. See , very good. Well, now that you're doing good preparing I thought I'd take the perfect pairing one step further here. The perfect sidekick, perhaps? The perfect sidekick. So when you did your wine and food tasting at Bubbleon Storean, it's a very nice place to do food and wine plasting. And you said that you were amazed at how much it really does change the taste of something like this melon and a macadamia knot or something. Yeah, just such as very simple, something ? very Something simple . Then your taste was going to go, whoa, well, I mean, it sounds like we was out, but we were like , ooh, what's happened there? Yeah, like a party in your mouth . So first one you've got in your glass here , this is a cremond de Bourgor Goy fromne the co op. Now I think this is quite sweet. Let's have a little taste. Well, mind you given that you had just had your very dry champagne. Yeah, maybe it's that. That's still technically no, that's dry but it's it felt not as dry as that 's a different piece . And I love that you loved that one with the pie that you had. Yeah. This is the same theory because I'm going to get you to try this one with a cheese straw. Okay, talk me about that and the reason is bubbles works really well with anything that is quite high in fat or creamy. So when you had the pie, you had the pastry and the mash . And actually the bubbles from the champagne worked better than the white burgundy. So we weren't wrong, really. I thought we should have the wine, but we know the champagne's too good. Yeah, I was I was watching thinking I would have gone for the champagne as well. It was brilliant. I'm so glad you laughed. Did you see how once you've tasted this and then you have the cheese straw, then take a sip of the bub bles and it's like a pallet cleanser. Kind of cuts through. It really is. And is that because of the fat? So it kind of like , yes, not dissolves the fat, but like so anything pastry or batter , like fish and chips? When you think about it , we got told champagne with fish and chips. And there were a day, there's a day we have champagne and fish and chips. Oh, I'm sure there's a national day for everything nowadays. There isn't like national sandwich Day. Yeah. But I always think anything with pastry or batter bubbles is the answer. Really? Yeah. And if you're ever stuck on a food pairing as well, like you're looking at something, you really don't know which way to go .ally Gener speaking , fizz is the answer. It works for so many things because it lets the food do. That's the safe option. Yeah, that's a safe option. Works for pretty much anything. Do you like that one? I love it. This is eleven quid from the co.al. So delicious It's really good . Especially with the cheese a straw cheese straw. So next, we're gonna do a little test to show you the difference between when you are doing food and wine matching , you can either match like with like , so match similar flavors. If you had a piece of fish and you might squeeze lemon over the top , have a wine that is crisp and fresh and truly exactly so you're almost though they complement each other in the sense that they're very similar . So you'll treat the wine almost like it's the source to the food. Yeah. Same genetics. Or you're about to say. Yes. What you could do is go rogue and flip, reverse it, and you get something that is so contrasting that the two styles blend together to make a perfect match. And you say you haven't learnt anything that's a wage happen. Lee. Lee . Sorry, I'm back. What's this? So impressive. Oh , that was exactly it. Peter. I know There's still time out there I wouldn't die . This is like my Bible. I love it . Thank you. Thank you. He'll have that in his bedside drawer. I'm buying this. I genuinely am . I love that. So yeah, so yeah. So that's exactly as good. But first of all, we're going to do like with like. So this is like with light and what is it? So this is an Italian white. Falangina is the grape. Right. And this is from Italy, what's from Tesco, actually. Nine pounds. And when you say Falangina, can we can you give us like a grape that it's similar to in style that we might know. I'd have never heard of Fallangina. So Fallangina, I would put in the same bracket as you know all those really lovely Italian whites that you only really find like Fiano or C ortesi, which is the great behind Gavi or Verventino. Well, other verbentino. So this has got those vibes Those lovely southern Italian whites. So it's a good one, isn't it? Because you get a bit of like what I love about Italian whites this one as well as from Campania so we're down near Naples and you've got the volcanic soil there which always gives the mind a bit energy I always think it's got that little edge to it. Yeah, it's a bit. But I want you to have a sip and then try an almond. Okay . And the reason for that is because the way this wine is made , they age it on its leaves, which is like the bits of the grape, once the fermentation is finished, the bits fall to the bottom of the tank. And if you leave the wine on there for a bit, it does take up a bit of a very slight nutty character which, I often find in Italian whites from down here. That kind of almond character almost. And is that 'cause they leave it longer than others leave it? Yeah, so some they'll take the leaves off straight away because they don't want that character, they just want real ize and don't know that with scissors and stuff like that. Yeah, you do. Exactly. So that will have been aged on its leaves for about a year . This is just a few months, but it does give it that really nice kind of very gentle nut. Hop me up, love. Do you like that? It's a good one is,n't it? I really like this one. Wait, you've had an almond almond. Is it almond or almond? I've gone in the middle. I've got almond . Almond. Almond . I used to say almond but I asked my sister Man. Is it Malbeck or Mulbeck? Malbeck. Mal is it Jenny Malbeck? Yeah. Is it Cafeter or Cafetius? I mean, I always go yes. Okay, so now I want you to try it. So that's the like with like the slight lutterness. So now I want you to take another sip Top me up and then have an olive. And when you think about it and you know, that is a very different flavor very profile , but see how much it works when it's just going to romance back in the day. I bet they've eaten this because they find they found olive nuts, not olive nuts, olive stones. Olive stones. The Colosseum. Did they really? Well, they said they were there a game. It'd be there watching glad iators with their wine and snack. Come on Wolf. No, gladiators watching Trojans. Come on Wolf. The massive plastic answers Bradley Malchester That is a very contrasting flavour sorry, I didn't get the ones without the stones. No. But it's 'cause the flavor of those is so good with these. You don't want briny olives. You want the really fresh, you know, juicy olives. Okay. And then try it. So that's a very different flavor, but it works just as well with a Fallangina because you've got the crisp . It's like two different wines. Yeah. It does make them both work, but they both work. Yeah . Okay, so now we are onto a red . This one I've gone for an Australian Shiraz. No, I think you both like your shiraz. You both like 'cause you like Roan Reds, don't you? Yes. Same great, but we're in Australia now . In the Barossa Valley, so South Australia. Oh, Barossa that rings a bell. Yeah, so it's basically it's South Australia is where you find Barossa, McLaren Vale, Adelaide Hills, Claire Valley, Kunawara, all the big names are down in South Australia . And this one's from Wake Troes, it's fourteen pounds. So traveling for a wine is good, a good price. Well, this is so it's from a family sound love lovely. It's from a family owned winery. It's been aged in French and American oak. So it's a smart wine . What's the difference between French and American oak? So French tends to be American bigger and louder It just is. Like the flavours are more vanillary, whereas French is more savory. It's to do with the grain and the tightness of the grain and also how they toast it. You see, it gets all sscientist. Yes they do . Yes. So just I mean, it's got all sorts of, you know, different types of oak in this one and you can kind of But you know what? This smells so good but it feels layered and it feels complex . Yes. You don't feel like you're smelling a pencil case. No , you don't want to smell yes when the wines are very oaky , then you just smell oak and you can't smell the fruit. Whereas this one you really get the fruit as well. Oh, it's so nice as well. Yeah, I like that. Well, I call this one a sitting down red because it's fourteen and a half percent. So you need to sip and savour this one. Sip and savor. Yes, and have some food. Never good job And have some food which is, even if it's a snack, even you can do this , some hard cheese, okay? If possible, aged hard cheese . And the reason for that is very often when you talk about wine and cheese pairing, people always assume that it's going to be red wine. But actually most cheese, especially the lighter, softer, creamier ones, do work better with whites. If you're going to match a wine, go for a red with a strong cheese. Yes, it's that weight of flavour. So go and tuck in, have a have a bite of that. And because this cheese, obviously, this is just cheddar. This is literally slices of cheddar that it all work s. That is high in fat and protein . So once your mouth is kind of coated in that fat and protein, then have a lug on the red wine and see what that does. And hopefully from when you first tasted it , it'll just change it a little bit. I'm going to coat my mouth with cheese and then go for the go for the sip and the swirl . Well , he was pretty at home just enjoying the view . It's like a little chameleon this wine, isn't it? That has changed. Well, the cheese it tastes smoother to me though. So the cheese has softened cannons of the red wine. That is exactly what I've done. Leave . Wash your mouth out, Coat your mouth with cheese and say that again. Oh, do you see what I mean? I'm sorry I'm sorry yeah that's lovely. You just said that the high level of fat in the che ese and whatnot. So I might try actually just the cheese with the cremon just to see. Yeah. Because it goes back to the thing when I said Fizz works with everything. I actually prefer the cremon with the cheese than I did with the cheese string. A cheese straw. Do you? Oh, that was brilliant. That is your snack dalema sorted. Yeah, I really like that. And I wonder it worked because I love cheese as well. Exactly. But yeah, but it goes with that changes , honestly, I mean, it's just so it's insane now . People are listening or watching like go and get some of these. We've got cheddar cheese, we've got almond salted almonds are they? Yeah, I think they are. We've got like olive and try it with these different wines. Honestly, the way it changes it, it baffles me. And the best thing is you can just put this down to research . Yes. You know, you're just expanding all my knowledge. Yes. All the time. And that's what I tell HMRC . They're right in, a nutshell, what is your favourite pairing? Go for it . Oh , God, it's difficult. It's hard to do. If I was gonna just be pushed into it, I would say the red and the cheese because I love cheese and I love the red, but I am going to go a little bit rogue and I'm going to say the cremon with the cheese. Love that. I'm gonna be you know me a bit boring, plain Jane, but I'm gonna go for the Shiraz and the Cheddar. Have anyone ever described Alan Carr as boring and plain Jane? You don't know the real Alan Car I think we do. When's the book out? twenty first of may available to pre order now. Amazing, amazing. Best of luck with it, honestly. And I think it's going to be a game changer for people. People I always think people like my mum and dad or whatever, when they want to go and they want to go, we want to like properly think about this rather than just grab it . It's great. Oh, thank you very much. Thank you so much for coming on. And don't forget if you've enjoyed this episode, don't forget to follow us at bottoms up show. That's rightly, isn't it? It is indeed. You can listen wherever you get your podcast. Also, we would be super appreciative if you wouldn't mind dropping us a five star review if you haven't already. It really does help. Do get involved as well with your queries, your quandaries and your dilemmas at bottoms up show on socials like Alan said or bottoms up at listen.co. uk if you want to drop us a little email and don't forget to follow us on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast