Album Sequencing and Future Projects

Pushkin Before Hardy was known as a breakout artist who pushed country music into hard rock territory, he was a self proclaimed reedneck from Philadelphia, Mississippi who studied songwriting at Middle Tennessee State University. Since moving to Nashville in twenty thirteen, he's written sixteen number ones for artists like Morgan Wallen, Blake Shelton, and Dirk Spam. In twenty eighteen, with the encouragement of producer Joey Moy and his label Big Loud, Hardy started writing songs for himself. and it paid off He's now a five time ACM award winner and a two time CMA award winner, joining the upper echelon of Big Loud artists that Mooy has helped build alongside Morgan Wallen and Florida Georgia In today's episode L A Rose talks to Hardy about the craft of writing a song that sticks, including what he's learned from studying artists like E and M They also get into how AI is showing up in natural writerss rooms, and why Hardy thinks Bro Country isn't going anywhere anytime soon. This is Broken record Real musicians, Real Cversations This is an IiHart podcast Guaranteed human Small businesses are the pulse of every community They bring people together, create opportunities, and drive growth Chase for Business helps business owners like you with personalized guidance and convenient digital tools all in one place With that guidance and your determination, you can take your business farther and help build a brighter future for your community Learn more at chase d. com slash business Chase for businessus. M more of what's yours. The Chase mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply ShP Morgan Chase Bank N A member FDIC Copyright twenty twenty six, JP Morgan Chase and Comany Embrace the haze with hazy little thing from Sierra Nevada If you saw the headliner when they played at the bar, or stopp your friend's mid festival to look at the stars, if you're up for whatever the night brings Brace the haze with hazy littleittle things. Haazy, citrusy smooth Brewed with the purest ingredients for finest quality There's a reason it's America's best selling hazy IPA Embrace the haze the Sierra Nevada hazy littleittle thing enjoy responsibly My kid's favorite place in the entire world to visit is New York City. So much so that they're begging me to come on my work trip I'm taking there in the next few weeks. And this time they want to go to Central Park because we missed it last time. If you're planning any upcoming trips, instead of letting your home sit empty while you're gone, you could be listing your space on Airbnb, giving travelers, like me, a place to land while they visit somewhere new It's a smart, practical way to make use of your place while you're away and earn some extra cash at the same time. And now with a cohost network, you could hire a local cohost to handle everything like managing reservations, guest communication, and even styling your space. Find a cohost at airbnb dot com slash host Here's the Arose with Hardy Head over to YouTube d. com slash broken record podcast if you want to see the video. Brad Paisley u has the u I'm going to miss her, you know, the song about U She says if, you know, it's like if if you, if you go fishing today, we're over and then he just says, I'm going to miss her. I'm like that's that's like some shit I would do. You know what I mean? especially as a teenager. And so I started that's when I started getting into country. It was just when it kind of started just the lyrics got a little more clever and it just appealed to like Yes peopleeople that grew up country. So is the bro Country era like that's over Okay, so I, you know, I'm glad you asked. I have not commented on this yet I know you studied. songwriting school for a period of time. But how did you how do you go from just being like a regular like high school kid to like making the move to Nashville? Like how do you even know that any of this existed? Well, so my sister moved to Nashville before I did. She's a year and a half older than me. She was two grades above me. She was a singer, She was really talented, still is a really talented singer. and you know, she she moved to town and I was in like junior college and just didn't know what I wanted to do and at the same time I had kind of gotten you know, decent at guitar and had written a couple songs. I mean, that literally is it. and was sending them to her. You know, I was recording them on back then, I don't even know what I recorded it on was before iPhones. and but I sent them to her And she basically hit me up one day and was just like, Hey, you know, there's a whole industry here like with songwriting, the publishing industry where you get people get paid to write songs. And most of the songs you hear on the radio aren't written by the artists or at least it was written by like some normal guys and girls that just go to the grocery store every day and You know, I didn't listen to country music growing up. I grew up in a small town and I grew up hunting and fishing and doing all this stuff, but I didn't listen to country music because it didn't appeal to me at all. There was nothing I got out of it until like Eric Church and some of these guys that started kind of singing about being a good old boy came along and then I was like, o, I do this stuff so I resonate with it. but I learned more about songwriting by locking myself in a room for four years and just listening to country music and trying to more or less replicate that in my own way than I did in school. I don't know. I feel like I got very lucky and I just made a snap decision and I just sort of wound up here. I mean, I worked really hard, you know with onnce I signed a publishing deal and all that and ye really never gave up and never thought about giving up and all that good stuff. But I just I I made such a snap decision and it just, which, you know, that's I just felt like it was just meant to be I also saw you that used to be really into like new metal. like you went through a phase, I guess when you were a teenager. Still in it Youre still at it? Of course. I love all this stuff. I was so happy for you that you did a song with Fred Durst. I was like, that must have been so cool It was it was a moment where I there like You know, I there's a lot of highs and there's a lot of Wow, I can't believe I met this person or I wrote a song for this person or what I'm doing a song with this person, but man The Fred one was different. And I was like in Italy at the time and my at the time a guy that was working at my label, who we had reached out to him, but I had no connection to him other than the guy that was working at my label He texted me and just said, hey, if you get a phone call today from like whatever number, like answer it, it's going to be Fred Durst. And I was like, what? And so I it was like one of the coolest things ever. I mean, it was such a huge limbiscuit fan. still am. I love the stuff they' put out to this day Um, but yeah, all that stuff. I mean, that really that was I was New metal was when I was like age nine to like, you know, fourteen. so those were very very absorbing music years for me. And so I took in a lot of that. It just it was Man Something about like all that stuff. Lincoln Park Um I mean, I had I begged my parents for the hybrid theory record when I was like ten years old and they gave it to me And it just it changed my life. I mean, I was obsessed with that stuff. I still am. I love it. I love New Mal so much That's so cool. I hear very few people like people like to shit on new metal But I love that you're into it I mean, you can shit on it all you want, but like I know for a fact that both Lincoln Park and Lint Biscuit at separate times were the biggest bands in the world Yeah, system of a down. same thing. They're c they' I guess they're new metalish they they're just to of their own thing. They' huge. But they' that that era of rock and roll Aside from like a little bit after that with like nickelback and three doors down. That was like The last era of bands that were just absolutely worldwide, gigantic. So you can shit on it all your own, but that shit was worldwide and they crushed it. So. you know, a lot more people liked it than didn't. I'll tell you that What about metal? L, were you into like slipknot? Were you into like more like harder metal stuff? Yes I love my suga a lot. Oh wow. I u I didn't get into slip knot as much until U I was older, I know that was kind of happening at the same time, but I just I wasn't into slit not quite as much. but let's see Um, high school, like a kid made me a burnt Ced. I was more like in the post hardcore era. Um or like you know, like people call it Death Corps U early like a day to remember and like b like August Burns Red and u I don't know. there's so many. And I rode that way for quite some time and I still listen to a lot of stuff now. I love Spirit Box. I think it's dope Um, I like fllowing in reverse. If another one that people like to shit on, but I think is like the fresh freshest shit that's been come out in a long time is Sleep Token Oh, I don't know Sleep token. Oh my God, you have to listen to Sleep Token. They are so sick. They are so sick. Huge like genre blenders, but they're really cool But yeah, I love all that stuff. If it grooves, like I can't listen to I'm not a big like black metal or just Nothing that really ever grooves. That's why I love M show so much is their rifs were so like clean and and just grovy and I just I love that kind Yeah Yeah Were you kind of like an outcast in high school? Like what was your what and what were you dressing like? Like did you have like the spiky Lincoln Park Mike Sanota hair? No, I was a I was kind of a regular southern boy. People in high school like to tell me that that I was a little bit different and I was kind of a rocker kid and I guess maybe I was, but no, I just Music was ironically kind of a big like It was big in my hometown and like people loved music and all different kinds and there was a little bit of a scene. you know, there was a couple scene kids and metal kids that I went to high school with, but they were also like They were cool, you know and are just, you know, they were popular. They had friends. It was just it was sort of different. but No, I was I felt like I belonged just right where I was and had a good I mean I was in I was in like FFA and shit. I was I was a country kid I just, uh Wait, that's farmers. Future farmers of America. It' my favorite class. O school Oh, nice. Most of my close buddies though were like Bro turned the shit off when I would play stuff like that. but I just, you know, I loved it. I had my metal buddies and I had my hunting buddies and, you know, all that kind of stuff How old are you when you're allowed to start hunting Seven Maybe I have an eight year old right now. I'm like, oh no. I think I got my first deer when I was seven. Hunting by myself, I think I was like twelve obbviously like my, you know, I would go with my dad and we would go separate ways or whatever. but But yeah, a really, really young age. it's It's a big part of my family. the men in my family, specifically. we all were and still are big deer hunters So you talked a little bit about the country that was popular when you were growing up and how you didn't identify with it. I guess was that like what was that era? Like how would you classify the music like it was the nineties, right? Yeah, late nineties, early two thousands. It was a lot of like honky tong music. I mean I grew up in ahont county I didn't drink I wasn't I didn't start drinking early. You know what I mean? I'd started drinking Like or ha had my first few beers, I guess you would say like eighteen, nineteen years old. like at most most kids, you know, maybe twenty But you're hunting at seven. Yeah Yeah, I was hunt at seven, but I didn't start drinking until I was, you know, seven in high schoolrazy Yeah. It just didn't appeal to me. there I' never been in a bar, you know, and it was either that or it was very it was like a lot of adult it appealed more to adults back then. I feel like the subject matter and I just it didn't it just didn't resonate with me. You' Brooks and Donn, who I now go back and I'm like, this music is awesome Yeah sixteen year old kid, you know, I don't know anything about boot Scoot and Boogy. I've never I've never swing danced or whatever that whatever that song is about. I don't know. it just it was it just did not appeal to me at all. It was just very adult and not until Like Brad Paisley uh has the u well I'm going to miss her, you know, the song about U She says if, you know, it's like if if you if you go fishing today, we're over and then he just says, I'm going to miss her. I'm like that's that's like some shit I would do. You know what I mean? especially as a teenager. And so I started that's when I started getting into country. It was just when it kind of started just the lyrics got a little more clever and it just appealed to likees peopleeople that grew up country. I feel like that was not a thing in the nineties. There wasn't a lot of Country boy can survive type stuff in the nineties. Yeah, that makes sense when you could see yourself in the music. I heard you talk about like songwriting now in Nashville has gotten very industrialized I guess what I meant by that more than anything is it's just you don't nobody sits around and lights candles and says Kumbaya and talks about what they what they've, you know, what they've been through and what I mean, that does happen. It's happened to me and it's I've written those kind of songs and they've been recorded and everything. but But uh, you know, really it's just You sit down that day and you try to write a hit or just the best song in the room and it's just it's kind of the same thing over and over and over again and and that's okay. It's just it's job. It's literally like any other job where You know, you kind of just do somewhat of the same thing every day and that's all, I mean, you know, there's There's all kinds of cool little magic moments throughout town and You know, like I wrote a song that Cody Johnson recorded called Jesus Loves You which It's not what you think if you go listen to it, but about a guy that is talking to a guy in jail because the guy in jail broke into this guy's house. and And stuff like that, like a buddy of mine came in with that exact story the next day because somebody had broken into his house and Anyway, so like, you know, stuff like that. like it does happen, but it's it's just not as common as as just sitting sitting down and just trying to write a good song every day. And that in that way, I think it's industrialized for sure Got you. Yeah So are you still enjoying it? Are you still enjoying writing songs? I love it so much. It's my I enjoy it more than any part of my career. I enjoy it all, but I enjoy it more than any part of my career. I mean That feels like pretty amazing because You've obviously done it for so long you're almost like a decade in, right Professional I five years in Yeah. Yeah. The fact that you still love it is pretty amazing I I that I mean, I I like to consider myself a decent singer and a pretty good performer. I think that the reason that I was put on this earth was to write songs. There's just something that happens to me in a songwriting room that like I can be having the worst day. I could be having like a mental breakdown or anxiety or whatever it is. And the second we get on a song and start digging into a lyric or whatever, I mean, everything in the world just goes away and that's that is That is my Zin moment, especially professionally. It's like the one time that I just sort of I feel like I'm just in a different place and it's just such a cool thing. I love it so much Have you ever tried to analyze what it is about the process that you love so much? Like is it like the puzzle part of it? Is it the like clever sideide of it U a I think all of it, I think. or at least those two things, you kind of nailed it. I mean, It is very much, especially with country, like every line has a place. like you're not there's, you know, somewat of rules. like you don't really, you're not supposed to contradict yourself. Like D don't say anything that you've said before in the song within the song, you know, there's all these different kind of caveats or rules or whatever and um I just love and so in that way, it's like a puzzle. It's like, well, what do we say in the second verse that we haven't said in the first verse? And like How does that sort of change the course, but you get back to the chorus in the same way and all that. The puzzle is like really my favorite part, but Lyric more than anything, like a the lyrics more than the melody and the music and all that. that that's that's where I get off. I love that stuff Is it okay in the room when you're in the room with people and you're writing, is it okay to use AI? L is it okay to like put something in chat GPT and be like, can you like I do it all the time with with with You get look, hereere's the thing. Any Nashville songwriter would be lying if they didn't say that they didn't go to either like rhymezone. com or like a rhyming Dictionary website thing And so if I'm stuck and I'm like, hey, can you give me a line for whatever that that is in the vein of like, you know, being outside in the woods. I'm just looking at my computer back screen, which is like, you know, the woods. And you know, half the time Like I would never chat Chat GPT doesn't have a soul So like it doesn't it a, I would never ask it, but it doesn't get like the the inner soul that produces like the lyric that will make somebody cry if that makes sense Yeah that all just comes from being a human, but but with like rhymes and just sort of stuff, really simple stuff, I've used it before for sure Yeah, I feel like it's if anything, it's like a good jumping off point Sure. I mean, it's not going I love that. might as well be part of it, you know So with you locked yourself in the room, what did you figure out about countountry like? What was the formula? Did you crack the formula? or were you like trying to figure out themes that like resonated with big audiences? or were you trying to think more about like verse chorus, bridge, that kind of thing? L the mechanics of the song? Yeah, more of the mechanics. You know, I didn't really get into I still I swear to this day. Not until like you're you're Deep in the middle of a song do you think like, oh man, okay, this is a hit. Like what if we do a moment right here where it's like om crowd moment, you know, likeike that's kind of that comes way later, I feel And the process, at least for me, it did So for me, I was just figuring out the structure and it's just You know, it's like you either go verse chorus, verse chorus, bridge chorus or you go verse chorus, verse chorus, solo, chorus or you start with a chorus and then you do a verse and then a chorus and then a solo and then a bridge, you know, there's like four five different formulas And I don't know, I just kind of felt like I learn those types of things and you know, a big one for me paying attention. I was a big M and M fan still am. But Figuring out how to phrase lines, putting emphasis on the right vowels so that there is a uh Is it Asinus And I think it's Asinets is the one that like puts the emphasis on the vowels And so if if like I studied that a lot like, because there's certain ways you can phrase a line that s and you could phrase a line two different ways and make them sound. one sounds like a hit and one doesn't sound like a hit. and it's all about where you put the emphasis on certain parts of the word, and I I wish that I could just pull one out of my ass and do it right now. Dude, wait, can you think of one from your own catalog or maybe something from Eminem, like an Eminem song where he does that? Okay, let me think really quick H Oh my Godd, this is gonna to kill me now because I can't do it now Um So if you put emphasis on a word in a sentence it'll make it sound more like a hit. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, like if you if you were going to say like like They get like a Morgan Wallens or some like big like Okay. All right. so u The second verse of M than My hometown I ain't the runaway kind. I can't change that. My heart's stuck in these streets like the train tracks City Sky ain't the same black that a map. shame and to think that chorus. I love you more. It's just like finding those vowels that sound the same and making sure that you sing them the exact same every single time so that it just sounds like a bar. It sounds like an M and M song You know. That sounds very hip hoppy. Yeah, that's so cool. I studied that. There's a guy. he's still around and he's written so many hits, but Casey Bethard, I'm not going to call him old man. I'm going to run into him and be like boy, you call me old man. But He it's like, man, I want to I've always wanted to ask him like, dude, who did you listen to to develop your internal rhyme scheme? because he if you go back, I mean, look at all the songs he's written, but He's just he had such a cool way of finding those internal rhymes because they're kind of, sometimes they can be hidden in a line, you know, and the right person sings it the right way and you're like, o, that sounds awesome. But I really learned from him And Rodney Clawson was another one. There's a second verse or first verse of that U actuallyctually I don't even know if Rodney wrote this song, but around here at GL pick her up at six. I hope she's going to wear the jeans with the tear that her mama never fixed I don't know It's just Yeah finding all the little internal internal rhymes in there that makes a song better. It always makes a song better. c. I say all the time if you u if you When you're writing a song and it's like a tongue twister, Sometimes people are like,h, that's kind of hard to sing. I'm like, No, because when you finally spit it out, it's going to sound awesome. It's, you know, when it's hard to say, that means it's it's it's a good thing. You just have to learn it, you know Yeah. I feel like with u, The song radio song, You're writing about the thing Like you're commenting on things and getting really clever with like the fourth w kind of Yes. Yeah, Yes. Did you start doing that like out of boredom? Like wereere you trying to make a statement? L how like where did that come from? I just always like songs about songs or like they call it metaoo, you know? like it's Yes Like and for radio songs specifically, I just I've there's a few songs that have done that in history that I loved and I wanted my own version of that. There was a song, You know, a lot of people don't know the Hey Yab by Ocast is about how People these days don't stay together anymore. They just get married and then they'll just get divorced. and that song is like, my baby don't mess around because she loves me so and this I know for sure. thank God for mom and dad for sticking to together ' we don't know how. And then in the bridge he's like, y' don't wanna hear me, You just w want to dance. He. L this song is Yes. It's like really cool, but the chorus is just like you know Man, but whatever, y'all don't care. H's a course. And that's kind of where I just I wanted to do something like that with. with radio song and by no means was I fed up? I mean, I wrote that in the peak of my H Well, I like to say my first peak in my songwriting career. So like my relationship with radio was great and I'm like Praising God every day for the radio. So you know, and most of the radio people that I've come in contact with, they love it and they get the cheekiness of it. And when I play it live, if the radio people are in the room, I'll give them a wink and kind of make a big smile. like I'm never really angry about it. I just wanted to write a song about a song and it's not the first time I've done it, but I enjoy doing it sometimes. Yeah, no, that's fun. And it makes sense when like Knowing that you admire people like Eminem, he commented a lot on the state of like the music business and just pop culture in general Flelyywood Matt kind of did it with rumors, but it was a little bit more cryptic, but like Em and M was the first person also to just completely open up his actual life to the world. And so it was like listening to reality music. You know what I mean? Yeah. and I think You know, I don't ever don't have the balls to do that. I don't want to air out which I don't have a lot of laundry, but I don't want to air out my laundry. to the world, but he, you know, I've always admired him for that because that was really brave of him to do that and and It worked. People became invested in like his story, you know, and it just tot it totally worked. I think that's so cool Yeah. and then he had like eight mile and then that's even like taking it further. Yeah Um and then Bro Cry, I want to ask you about that song too. So is the Bro Cry era like that's over Okay, so I, you know, I'm glad you asked. I have not commented on this yet Okay. M and Ern came up with that idea together at a Morgan Wallen show of All things. We were opening for them like three and a half to four years ago. I feel like that concept completely like I'm like owning up to this, but I feel like The concept of bro country U the song is kind of out the window because I now feel like in the next few years, some of that is going to come back. and I'm just being completely honest, you know, when we wrote it, it was like, Man, there's all these new people that are coming in and they're, you know, it was very, it was very fresh off of like a really potent bro country era. But even just four or five and now almost maybe six years later, you know, there there's a guy. there's a guy kid right now named Cody Loden. He's doing this like broke. He's got a song called Buckle upp and it's just It's just earwmy like the lyrics aren't super, super deep, but they're so well written and it's just it's that thing. It's just like D donon't know what we're gonna do tonight a baby buck up, but it just it sounds good and you know, I saw a girl Lauren Watkins make a video a while back and she was like, I'm just gonna say it, I miss Bro countountry And she was like, I I She didn't use word objectified, but she was like, I want to be called hot. I want people to think I look hot with my leg swinging off tailgate. I miss it, bring it back. And I was like, man, you know, that's right. And I honestly believe that girls that grew up in that era listening to that kind of miss that a little bit and Morgan, Morgan will do it like Morgan does it And but he's kind of the only guy that sort of can still get away with it. All that to be said. I think it's going to come back. In the next ten years, I think it's going to come back. and I just I'm here for it. So sorry, Bro Cry Broke country was a was it wasn't a bad idea, but I think it was a short lived thought. We'll be back with more from Hardy after the break. 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JP Morgan Chase Bank, N A member FDIC Copyright twenty twenty six, JP Morgan Chase and Company. My kids favorite place in the entire world to be is New York City. They want to go any chance they get, even if it means just accompanying me on a two night business trip. and this time they want to go to Central Park because we missed it last time And they can't wait to have the bagels. They're like real New Yorkers. They love the bagels. They love the pizza. It's crazy Now if you're planning any upcoming trips, do you ever think about how your home will just be sitting empty while you're gone? Why not consider listing your space on Airbnb You could be giving travelers like me a place to land while they visit somewhere new and earn some extra cash at the same time And with your cohost network, you don't even need to stress the little details while you're enjoying your own trip. You can hire a local cohost to handle everything like creating your listing, managing reservations, guest communication on site support even styling your space. So while you're making your own memories, your home can be helping another family make theirs. Find a cohost at airbnb. com Embrace the haze with hazy littleittle thing from Sierra Nevada. If you saw the headliner when they played at the bar or stopped your friend's mid festival to look at the stars, if you're up for whatever the night brings, then embrace the haze with hazy littleittle Th Hzy, citrusy, smooth Juicy but not sweet happy, but not bitter Buring with fruit flavor in a rom There's a reason it's America's best selling hazy IPA Sere in Nevada Brews hazey little thing with the purest ingredients for finest quality in ever since Vvelvety smooth and hand crafted with Citra and Mosaic cops Because when you're living in the moments that matter, it matters which beer. Ebrace the Hazze with Hazzy Little Th by Sierra Nevada enjoy responsibly I heard you say in a different interview that you were talking about how if you have a number one hit I think it was if you have like a number one song on the radio, you get like as a songwriter, you get like two hundred thousand dollars. Yeah, I don't know take Yeah. give or take. And I was just curious like as a range, like How does being a songwriter compare to being an artist who's touring, who's like playing stadiums? M Yeah, just like range wise. like like Touring makes way more money if you're killing it Um but Something that I learned recently and I'll be somewhat cryptic here, but like if you do have a string of hits As a songwriter You have the ability to sell your catalog U and you don't get that back, you know, so you kind of want to make sure that most of the the stream has run out, your revenue stream from the songs that you're selling has run out H But if you have enough hits and you sell a catalog as a songwriter You can make a shit ton of money and it kind of will put in perspective like touring versus wrriting, if that makes sense Right. because because Yeah if you're like a well, if you're a stadium act, that's like a different level of money and I'm that's not I'm I'm like an amphitheater act at best, but um It is really good, but You know, you would have to be really crushing it as a songwriter to kind of get close to like somebody that's crushing it tour to be honest. But again, ye, the catalog sale kind of makes up for that on the back end a little bit because that's a really that's like your Super bowl as a songwriter too is you want to be able to do that one day's that creates that's a different type of like Snd your grandkids to college. Totally generational wealth, yeah So how do you know when you said like when it's run its course? Like how do you know when that time is I mean, if you have a business manager, that can kind of keep an eye on it, but you just like you get a you get a statement from your PRO quarterly, the people that pay you and You can just see, you know, like uh I can go pull my last statement up and, you know, Obviously like I wrote a Blake Shelton song called God's Country and like that that was one of my biggest hits. And like at its peak, it was making this much. And you know, I can just see that like you can just sort of tell when it sort of dwindles down to around this maybe a very lower five five figure number for a year or so at a time and then You know, basically a company is willing to buy that song. for more than what that a what five figures quarterly would make in your lifetime. So you're kind of taking the money and run, but run Yeah because like it's it's still an investment for other companies because over one hundred years it's going or seventy years it's going to make more than what they paid you for it, but you're like, you know Again, right the money and run kind of thing Um, but then something like a strranger thingsings could license a song and then your because because they could you could get like a eight figure deal off of something crazy and then Sony or you know, somebody like that owns it now. and that happens, you know, like you just never know like you never know. A song that I sold could could be sampled be this biggest like Swedish dance song in the world and make a ton of money and You know, but that's just, that's kind of the risk that you take when you sell a catalog. So You just never know I was curious about the way that you sequence an album with country country like with the song Bottom land. Why did you put that all the way at the end of the album? Like how do you think about the sequencing I don't know. I don't remember That since that that record had like twenty songs on it, I so that was harder for me to curate or to make the list for sure. So I can't really give an answer as to why more towards the end to be honest with you, but I will say, I do, I'm heavily involved, if not one hundred percent responsible for every track order of every record that I've done. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. It's just, you know, I know that people don't listen to albums front to back anymore, but I feel like in that way, I'm kind of an old soul and it's like, I've always loved albums and like a body of work. and I think that you know, for people that create music to make a body of work, I guess, want it to be listened to front to back And so I definitely will look at the list of songs and try to like pull you emotionally all over the place by the end so that there's nothing that seems too monotonous or to a repetitive on the record if that makes sense. Yeah. You mentioned that it had a really long track list. like why not just put half of those out and save the other half for a future release I just I don't I don't operate like that. Like I this this record was very intentionally country and and Yeah It was it was kind of a retaliation to me leaving the country space for a year and going into the rock space because my last record was called Quint and we we marketed that as a rock record Um So this was sort of us almost I didn't treat the music sarcastically, but like it was like a here's your here's a big ass country record for everybody to enjoy. And u And that it's just it's where my head space, that's where I was like, you know, in my heads space and And I like I said, I want to move on and like I have a different project already in mind for like the next thing. and so No, I know you do. I want to hear about it. What is it Is it way different It's um Yes, a little bit of the same, a little bit different. It's just it's a I'm getting back to like a concept kind of like the Mcin Bird and the Crow, which was my second album, which I still think is kind of my flagship record so far. Um, rightight. 'cause it's got the country and the roock together. Yeah, it's like the it's sick if somebody was like who was hardardy, you know, like What what should I listen to? Like that's that's what the reference probably is But no, I mean, I have I have a concept U I'll probably have my first I'm going to have like an eight minute song on the record, which I'm stoked about that kind of talks about the concept and it's just I just trying to continue to sort of push boundaries and just keep people on their toes and make people just be like, What the fuck? 's Is it like a different genre of music, like a totally different genre or is it like just new metal and country A L little bit of this, little bit of that Is it like trap or something? No, no, no, no, it's not like that. It's all. It's all still under the umbrella of like me and my music. But it's just it's It's more it's less like genre changing and more of like It's more of like a concept. Yeah, like a concept or it's just it's got more of a theme, an intentional theme to the structure of the album I'm still probably a year out from a record coming out. hopefully more because I need some time to really I want this one to really count. Um because I' I've always believed too like You know, my first record was a rocket. It did well, but then the Mockkey Bird and the Crow did really well And then Quit didn't do quite as good as Margy Bird and the Crow and then country country did a little bit better than Quit, but not as good as M different. Yeah. for sure, but I'm a firm believer that that just because you had records that followed a record that didn't do as good doesn't mean that you're done making your best record Pretty hate machine was B its nails' his first record. and I think that came out in light eighty nine or ninety or something. and that was like biggest record for a long time and then with teeth came out like seventeen years later. and that is like the record that everybody knows nine inch nails by. And I'm like, man, that if they can do that, I feel like I can do that. I just have to keep trust in myself and know that there's still something greater out there to explore. Do you feel like you make the music for you or do you make it for the audience I think I make it for me. I've thought about this a lot. I just want to make stuff that's like I would think is cool. You know, u that. that I would listen to, I think. I definitely think like when I get something really great, I'm like my fans were gonna love this, but I don't I'm not making anything for anyone outside of my fan base to be impressed with. likeike I just want U like I Im not like man, I need more metal fans or I need more traditional country fans I need to do a like I just don't operate like that. so But mostly I just I want to make shit that I just think sounds cool and like me and my buddies all just think's cool, you know and ye That's just sort of the starting point, I guess Yeah One last break and we'll be back with Hardy Being a small business owner isn't just a career, it's a calling Chase for Business knows how much heart and effort go into building something of your own That's why they make your business growth their priority The team at Chase takes the time to understand your mission, where you are now and where you want to go. 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It's a smart, practical way to make use of your place while you're away and earn some extra cash at the same time And with the cohost network, you could hire a local cohost to handle everything like managing reservations, guest communication and even styling your space Find a co host at airbnb. com slash host Have you had to deal with any friends or any collaborators who want to kind of be like where you're at, like any fellow songwriters, people you work with that also want to be maybe artists themselves, but for whatever reason can't. make that transition or have tried and haven't found success. Yeah. haveave you had to deal with that like Is that hard for you being someone who has crossed over and found success? You know, not not necessarily Everybody that like Like my best friend is Hunter his name is Hunter Phelps and he He did the artist thing for a while and just never He did really well, but he never like never signed a deal, never had a radio single or anything like that. And uh he, you know, so he kind of hung it up or at least, you know Full time hung it up, and then he has like fifteen number ones under his belt as a writer now. So like most people have are transitioned into something really great. Another friend of mine, Jordan Broker Jordan was a songwriter and he was one of the kind of guys that that and he would he would be fine with me saying this sort of got like He sort of went into a corner and was like, I don't know. I kind of want to go do like my own rock thing and we were all like, bro, we're all writing country songs, Like come with us. so I feel like he kind of got left behind a little bit And then like ten years later I end up signing his rock band to a record label and he's killing it and he's making like awesome music. So every I feel like everybody that that I felt like has not had success has turned whatever the end of something else that's been really great. So that's really special. Yeah, that's awesome Why do you think that it worked out so well for you when there's like I don't know if there's so many people have, you know, I'm sure a ton of people moved to Nashville to try and do the exact same thing, but you made it. like what do you think the difference is? Like, do you think it's innate talent? Do you think you just are you work harder You met the like the right people, like what is it? I think it's just all about luck. I think it's all of it together. But I think The driving force for me is just being a decent person. and just treating people right and being polite and Everybody has their moments, like, you know, and it sucks when You do have a bad moment with a fan or with somebody or somebody sees you kind of being an ass but you know what, man? we're all we all have those days. We all have those moments. It just sucks to be sort of in the spotlight or just being kind of caught at the wrong place at the right or wrong time but You know Talent is fifty one percent of it Luck is ten percent. Right place, the right time is ten percent And then the other twenty nine percent or whatever is I really, truly believe and hard work isn't there too, but is just being somebody that people want to work with because I can tell you right now I have people that I write with that are not the best writers in town There there are people that are more talented than the people I love working with that suck as a human being and I don't want to work with that person, period. So like just be somebody that people want to work with that people want to root for and And and just a good hang that people like being, you know, that you make people feel comfortable being being around you. I think it There's so much of that. I mean, of the all of the biggest people in Nashville The people that I looked up to, like Blake Shelton, the Luke Bryan, Miranda Lambert Darkk Bentley have all been the most kind Easy to be around people personable, just normal at their core, people And I just I truly believe that's why that's what turns people into like a superstar is that so many people just love who you are I feel like Lany's like that too. She seems so cool. Unbelievably normal. Like unbelievably normal. She she hits me up. all the time and she's ourur schedules are all crazy so we haven't done it. she's like, you w want to go get some Mexicanood. You know I'm just like, man it just sounds like something, you know, she is my buddy, but just sounds like something one of my guys buddies would just be like, Hey dude, you know, I mean, she's so Yeah That girl for the amount of success and stardom that she's experienced has not changed a single bit and I love that so much about her Is there anybody that you want to work with on the new album that you can tell us about? Like any collaborations or any like Um New metal people? You know, I'm not really sure. I mean, I love Mike Sinoto would be really cool. Yeah. But he's so cool. Have you met him? No, no, I never met him That would be very cool. Even I mean, I would do another song with Fred Durstter even like if I had like Wes Borlland play like a part on something. I don't know. There's there's a million A million people, I'm sure that would come to mind, but I haven't really given it a lot of thought yet. I've only written I think five or six songs for this next project and I've got a long way to go, so Okay, you have twenty more Maybe two or so. So with like the Fred the Fred Dur back to the Fred Durst song, like when he, did he send you that verse and then you listen to it? And then like, did you work remotely or becausecause you guys weren't in the same st? No, we weren't. Yeah, I had that hook. I had that chorus