Reflecting on Radiohead's Catalog and Future

Pushkin Ed O'Briry spent the last few decades crafting some of the most textured, expansive guitar and modern rock music F the fragmented beauty of Kid and amnesiac, to the experimental layers of King of Limbs. E back to the more straight ahead sounds on OK compomputer Ed has expanded the guitar's path. But over the last few years, he's been exploring a universe parallel to radiohead One re's at the center Starting with Earth in twenty twenty, which he released under the Moniker EOB, and now with Blue Morpho under his birth name at O'Brien As Album's title hints, Ed found himself in a transformative period of the last six years, and not unlike the striking butterfly the albums named after, came out the other side a new, perhaps even better person, with a gorgeous album to show for On today's broken record, Ed takes us through some of the journey of making this album, starting in solitude, playing guitar figures just for his own edification rough writing and eventually connecting with a crew of talented friends to bring the songs to life. Ed also discusses the evolution of his plane over time, the impact Brazil's had on him musically, and which producer he wishes Radiohead had worked with in the nineties This is Broken record Real musicians, Real Cversations This is an iHart podcast Guaranteed human When you own your own business, you own every decision Now own the card that rewards you for it Chase Sapphire Reserve for Business is a pay and full car that elevates your travel experience and offers premium benefits that will take your business to the next level. Sapphire Reserve for Business offers eight X points on all purchases through Chase traravel. threeree X points on social media, and search engine advertising, airport lounge access, and more Chase Sapphi Reserve for Bus. It's the card that gives you back all you put in. Learn more at chase d. com forward slash reseserve businessus Chase for business. Make more of what's yours. Accounts subject to credit approval, restrictions and limitations apply Cards are issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank N a Remember FDIC My kid's favorite place in the entire world to visit is New York City. so much so that they're begging me to come on my work trip I'm taking there in the next few weeks. And this time they want to go to Central Park because we missed it last time If you're planning any upcoming trips, instead of letting your home sit empty while you're gone, you could be listing your space on Airbnb, giving travelers, like me, a place to land while they visit somewhere new It's a smart, practical way to make use of your place while you're away and earn some extra cash at the same time And now with a cohost network, you could hire a local cohost to handle everything like managing reservations, guest communication, and even styling your space. Find a cohost at airbnb dot com slash host Need to pay a friend back for festival tickets or a morning coffee run? AppleCash makes it simple. Just tap plus in the messages app to find AppleCash. No need to jump between apps or search for usernames. It's a private and secure way to send money. Send cash right in the chat with AppleCash. AppleCash services are provided by green. bank member FDIC term supply Here's my interview with Etd Oa Brian from Amazon Music Studio one hundred twenty six. So I actually had this test before you guys. No, it's all good. I like that Who is that? That's the Burundi black. Wow. cut Have you heard that? No, sounds great. Cool. I put this together, It's u The regriion comes from here Wow Wow, wow. The Burundi drummers. Burundi drummers. Yeah. And then again you know about this one. Malcm you know Malcolm McLaren. Malcolm McLaren. Exactly. And Adam and the Antts. Adam and the Antts. Yeah. Yeah, that's what McLaren said to Adam and the Antts. said you gota take the Burundy beat. and make pop music on the top. And always wondered if Gary Glitter. Yeah Did he get it from that? 'ause this is fucking glam. This Oh Hey, Rock, can roll it, ye. Yeah. Yeah It's different, but it's not sampled and it's not quite the be Even the hegg, it's similar to the exact. The original tribal. Yeah. It's crazy He's of course persona Nonrata in the UK. W. Yeah. S a great record that's. But the sound, right? Sound is great. Unbelievable. My dad was really corny growing up and I was going to like, you know, whatever games or whatever and they would play that butit that can you track Sede Black Sedehead? Oh black skinnhead. Skinhead. That's obviously He was listening to well, there's something going on there. cross pollination with Gary Gitterin. I think hely I think he just sampled it. Did he sample it He just sampled it.' my Odithi Probablyre prettyty sh. off course. could be wrong U Yeah, and Jonny Mitell did it too. Did you ever hear that? No. Well she sampled that? Well she she just took yeah, she sampled it actually. Gary Glitter. Not Gary Gitter. Burundi. The Burundi. Oh wow Oh dar, that's here What is that? Hising a summer lawn. She did it on jungle Line. Wow So w on trumpet. Wow, that's so really wide this. So beautiful. Yeah It's really wild this album is be why I need to listen to this record. Yeah, you'll dig it. Hissing the summer lawns. Yeahah. I don't know day man. I know of it, but not I don't know it. It's out there. I didn't really know it too well until recently. Yeah. It's one of those records. There's a lot of records like that again. I know I love that. know, I try and I try and I try and I' know and then all of a sudden it Yeah it opens up. opens up. Yeah, right? It's amazing. The gift of the music. Yeah Which that happened for for I was reading a bit. that happened for you a couple of times, right? Yeah Zelin didn't really even get into I didn't Zeppin until I remember we were it was that we were touring the bends And I was living on my own, came back for Christmas, finished that and I never heard L Zeelin And I had a girlfriend and she lived in Monmouth I went to see her and Monmouth is the studio where Robert Plant used to live in Monouth, and I think Zeppelin recorded there I sudly suddenly Zeppelin opened up because we were so tribal growing up. I was in like in the alternative golf Smith's and You know, in the eighties, the kids who were listening to Zeppelin were all in tenim jackets leather jackets and, you know, rockers Yeah. and it was so you just didn't cross those lines which was such a shame and then Zeppin open up and Im I still I mean I am I love Zeppelin. I mean, you know, I understand Zeppelin in a way. I feel it, like the spiritual element of Zeppelin. I mean, is there a better ever than Kashmere I mean, that's like that's a spiritual like that's a that's like a that is like a Himalayan track in terms of, you know C Musical and sonic power. Yeah You know It's why I I We listened to that recently. I haven't heard it in a long time And it's it's really bgged down. You know that live version that they did when they played that one off gig, the Armour Ertogan, they did it at the Ota in London in two thousand seven? Yeah, yeah. It's fucking unbelievable. dare I say I think it's It's got a vibe it's more powerful than the record. Really? It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable, you know You know, just What What a track. It's like it's insane. I have to listen to that. Yeah It's really good. I kind of avoid it. I want, you know, I was young at that time, but I was like, man, maybe I can get some money and get out there and go see that or something. But it was it was insanely. I had a friend out here who won somehow won tickets through the radio and went like one a f trip got flown out and I was like so jealous. I stopped talking to them thing ' best. and I wanted to go but I didn't I didn't play the radio head card, which I probably should have in hindsight, was kind of reluctant to do that and I should have done that. Yeah. Maybe I'd still not got a ticket. who to know that that would have done anything. you know, I'm sure Well, you know, and I wondered to to what degree And maybe you'll know more. I didn't realize that the UK because in America was definitely that segmented if you were into alternative music or punk or anything like that or even like hip hop, like it it was hard to cross over into like things that felt more commercial or but I wonder if it cut the other way too, L for those guys if they were like I f abouto head in a way No totally. I'm sure it does. I mean, I think's what I love about now, you know, and a lot of people kind of it's very easy in the current age to be a naysayer about the culture of music and what's happening now. But I see it my kids and what I love is There's no such thing as a guilty pleasure. We grew up with this concept of a guilty pleasure. like I remember having to hide stuff that I loved Bak I remember when I was at university when Madonna Vauue came out And I was doing my finals and I was into the Stone Roses, happappy Mondays, Pixies, B. And I sort of semi hid the fact that I love that song but what's great now is that kids are just like, I like that. I like that. There doesn't seem to be those divisions There's really not And there's a ton of benefit to that. Dars, I think there's some drawbacks. What are they? That's interesting What do you think? The drawback to me is You know, I thought about this recently when like when rec Quin Tarantino got in trouble for like shooting on a couple of actors recently. It was it Pauldano? Pauldano. Yeah, yeah, that was so cool. It was cruel. But you know, part of me, I started thinking about it. Yeah. Irrespective of what you think about Pauldano, I think was great and And there will be blood. But It's sort of like, you, I sort of thing think about like Miles Davis. He used to do that. this people right. Fuck God, people are fucking ground. You're like friends even yeah, you know. And then I started thinking about do you think people are too nice? Maybe I mean, I don't want to say that, but sometimes the job is to to to is to take a stand. And to say how you feel and to say how you feel. Yeah, know I get you. we were talking about this yesterday about music publications. When we grew up we used to have these publications These music mags called Eeme and Mie Mak, an enemy was ruthless. Yeah. and they hated Radihead in the early days. They called us a liillily liid excuse of a rock band Waiting. You know You'd read that review and it had an impact and it was like it sharpened your acting a bit. You go like h Okay, fuck you, all right, we're gonna fucking show you. So yeah, there was definitely a little bit of a gnarliness or just speaking the truth. You're right, I think a lot of people Oh It's interesting. It's finding that balance. I think you can I think you what I found for me, I like to speak the truth, but I like speaking truth with kindness Yeah because you know You can also, you know, like Milles was Miles, he grew up in a toughest toughest eraa. Yeah. So he has no's like only the fittest survive, you know in this. And there's something to that, but also you can lose people along the way. And you know, it's like I'm really into sport, particularly soccer and the generation of soccer players now. They're not like thirty years ago, which you had that fit of survive and it was tough The great managers ' very much like I think they follow people like your man, Phil Jackson, who coached the Balls Yeah. They know how to mas the lakers. the l in the lakers lakersorry.. But they're more enlightened and they go, okay, that guy needs that, that girl needs that. know kind of quite like that. I like that we've kind of moved on a little bit more. but having said that,, you know, It was funny. It was But you can bring people down and listen, I'm one of those people as well. I need You know, I grew up in a tough love era, but actually I thrive more. when I'm given a bit more support and in my own music, I need that need I need to know I can do it. I'll say I'm the same way. I the same way. So I struggle as well. Yeah. And I think The trade offffs are largely probably worth it, you know, but I do I do think about that. I'm like I just probably sometimes, you know, like the gate the idea of there being no gatekeepers now sometimes is a little like know, we're goingomin her again. Yeah Oh my go. I mean, maybe some things didn't get do that should have, but I mean, thank God he was there. Thank God. You're right, you're right. we do Yeahah, it's true Mo Austin. of the old guys, you know All those old guys, Chris Blackwell, Island Records. Yeah All these people, like real music, music guys. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of miss that. Yeah. We'll be back with more from Ed O'Brien My kid's favorite place in the entire world to visit is New York City. So much so that they're begging me to come on my work trip I'm taking there in the next few weeks. And this time they want to go to Central Park because we missed it last time If you're planning any upcoming trips, instead of letting your home sit empty while you're gone, you could be listing your space on Airbnb, giving travelers, like me, a place to land while they visit somewhere new It's a smart, practical way to make use of your place while you're away and earn some extra cash at the same time And now with the cohost network, you could hire a local co host to handle everything like managing reservations, guest communication, and even styling your space. Find a cohost at airbnb dot com slash host You know that awkward feeling when you have to ask a friend to pay you back for a dinner or a night out? Apple Cash makes it so much easier. Everything happens right where you're already talking in the messages app. I just tap plus to find Apple Cash and settle up with a text. And once you're settled up, you can spend the money you receive anywhere Apple Pay is accepted Plus it's private and secure, with every one of your transactions protected by face ID, touch ID, or passcode. Whether it's splitting dinner or paying someone back for a trip, it's just so easy to use AppleCashe. AppleCashe services are provided by Greenot Bank, member FDIC, Terms apppply The future won't wait. And neither should you. That's why American Public University offers master's programs designed for momentum Affordable High quality and flexible Moving forward career relevant programs in business, healthcare, education, IT and more You can gain skills You can use right away and the confidence power your next move American Public University made for what's next Learn more at apu. aPUS EDU. Speaking of kind of harsh critics, Iess. I didn't realize until just today that John Peeel wasn't really. I was going to ask you about John Peel, but then I found out he wasn't so supportive. No We weren't his kind of band, but then I remember a story when we played Glastonbury in ninety seven. We headlined Glastenbury on the Saturday night, which was sort of is on the OK compute right the start the OK compute and he traditionally did the He did like the TV and radio. U the Went Tu And one of the DJ's Marianne Hobbs, who who who's sort of always been a champion of the band She and him were watching that performance And he said, he said afterwards to her He said, Oh, I think I need to revisit radiohead And we were really keen when Kid A came out We were like, please can Peel play. And I think Peel did We never got to do a visit to Pele A acres, which we never did a session. You didn't do a session number? No, because I think we would have subsequently but he died But I think that we were just we would just not You know, the first sound was a bit confusing for a lot of people, not the least U. And we were on a major label. He always gravitated towards independent labels and we had a monster hitting creep. So that kind of were immediately Noope, not having that.. So it took us a lot it was just I think we just kept on knocking at the door and you know, but could have got in there but yeah, but that's okay. W was the first record confusing 'causeuse it was such a hit out the gate and that was confusing? No, it was confusing. Well, there was that. I mean, that was a blessing, obviously in hindsight because I think otherwise we would have been dropped It was We just didn't know what we were doing, that kind of the level of commitment and what it took to the level of seriousness that it required to to do what we were doing. And I think I think inevitably I mean some But some bands come straight, some artists come straight out of the books, right? Yeah but we were one that we were still trying to is trying to find our voice collectively and also Tom lyrically, I think was trying to find his voice So we had't we hadn't got our shit together and it's just a Those things can take just take a bit of time and And you need people to sort of knock you down. to find find the way as well. You need you need to find a robustness and you need to look at a few photos shoots that you've done and go like, we look really crap. Yeah. and you go, okay, we need We need to have black I mean you know, all that stuff. Be becausecause you're just saying yes to things that don quite know. Yeah and you don't know what you're doing. And so you make these mistakes very publicly. and As long as you learn from them and evolve from them, that's fine. It's the You know, so I think we did Yeah. and we just worked really hard. It made us knuckle down even more. So the second album comes along it's like, okay because people said we were one to hit wonders And in a way, that album is It kind of is that And we were like, why, every single song on this next al was gonna to be a. It's gonna be a tune. Yeah. and it was. Thank you. Well, it was, you know. You know, you're talking about kind of finding yourselves as a band I'm curious about finding yourself as a guitar player and leading up to talking about your new record. If you had to look back at the various eras of your playing from beginning when you first pick it up to now. Can do you see distinct errors in your playing? Yeah, definitely. I mean the first album is really it's very simple. I mean a we had a if you like a formula, which was quiet verses and loud choruses. So the loud choruses meant that all three of us, Toom Johny and myself would stamp on distortion pedals. and then the verses would be minimal and also I think in a way that it was very much it was in a way supporting my role in that was very simple. I didn't play leade, so it was supporting Johnny in that respect. And it was that was the thing that I always For me it was a little bit one dimensional, you know, in terms of my own playing and it was That's the kind of music we were doing then. I mean there's a track on their blowout, which I Playson a sound and that's when I first sort of got a crazy sound or a sound that was different and sort of riffed on that. And I remember on it was really on the second album, it started to open up with me. We were sort of more interested in You know, you get bored of things. so that guitar distorted onslaught became something we use less and less. We still used it wasn't as it was just we were more interested in textures and sounds and that for me was really. I remember we worked on Planet Telex and those guitar sounds were all things that I programmed. I had, you know, had rack unit, a Cg rack unit and so I was really into that and then You know, okay computers for me it really flowered. and what was interesting about that was that because When you're playing clubs kind of quiet verse loud chorus thing with distorted guitars works really well Yeah you know, bang it's in your face.. where you start getting more success in you're playing bigger venues. and I remember By the time we're touring ninety six between the Benz and OK compputer, I mean we did these shows in Canada that were essentially our first arena shows And these songs, that kind of thing doesn't work so well. And we were sound checking stuff off OK computer like let down and suddenly You know, a delayed, clean, delayed guitar. sounded so beautiful in these bigger spaces. So I think The sound developed Yeah as the venues changed And because we always road tested new material. That was always a point like sound checks just to alleviate the boredom of the road and playing the same songs We would sound check new songs and we would also play them in the set. So as the venues got bigger, we could use the acoustics of the room And for me, that's when it really you know, I think for me, Okay compputer was the moment I really felt like as a guitarist, I was sort of finding my stride. I think it was very obvious what Johnny did from in a very early stage of this incredible lead powerful lead thing and you know, he was able to do stuff that I couldn't. I couldn't do that stuff. That wasn't inia didnt I just didn't do it, but as we changed, like I became just sort of obsessed with sound and it just sort of developed from there and And you know, and a kid A was another another leap and then You know, Yeah, it's been great. It was great sort of laboratory and the great thing about radiohead was it was you know, The weirder the sounds, the more encouragement you got. Yeah from that from from everybody. you know, And it was always trying to, I mean, lots of the weird sounds never got in, but it was trying to get this stuff sounded. I mean I've always loved sound. You know, you realize what makes you tick and sound is something that I sound for me is very visual. You know, And when I connect with something, I connect sonically, but I connect it very visually. And That's what Yeahah, that's what That's what floats to my boat really Did you always know that? Was it always clear to you the sound? It's interesting. Yeah, looking at. I mean, like why did I want to pick up the guitar? mean I heard the beatles, you know, I've had amazing music exposed in the seventies through Top of the pops, this British this TV show. it's an amazing weekly TV show But it wasn't until I heard the police and it was specifically the track walking on the moon by the And Andy Smons's guitar playing and the sound of the track has got this all this reverbed delay and it was suddenly What I loved about it was track sounded as if it was recorded on the moon. How I imagined it would be. I could feel like The moon and So I think it had that lilt doic whatever Yeah, they did the Rll in Space echo famously, you know, and also the the Echop px Stuart Copeland put delay on his drums, the space echo, believe, Andy Somers has had an echo. putut on his drums? Yeah. didn't know that. Yeah, he did. He went there's a great I think there's some lovely footage. They went to Manny's in New York and bought load again. he bought a space echo and You know, Stuke opens drumming with a space echo on it, man. it's like killer. That's wild. Yeah, really wild and he play in live. so M must played differently. Yeah That's right, But he had the monitor. he'd have it with him. so in the studio. So he was actually the monitors it was coming through. so it's just extraordinary stuff. Yeah. and of course They would have got that through the reggae and the dub influence You know, the sppace echo being a really important part of the dub and reggae arsenal. So Yeah, I think it was it was those and then and then I was very lucky because I grew up in an era of post punk, which was really So creative Yeah. And you had players like John McGgh who was this played with, you know, magazine and Susiean you know, Suszie N D Bane's great, you know Juju, all the spellbound and stuff. Like his He was next level and then he went on to play with Leen and Pill and and all that stuff. and then who played with public. I't Yeah I think he joined. He was in a band. After Susan Banches, he went to he formed a band with Richard Jobson from the Skids called The Armory Show. All right Not great And then but then he joined. Yeah, but then he joined an inccarnation of Pill and he did there was that album Is it with Happy onn it and Really good. It's like the u Really good. Yes. it has it's good Is everybody happay Yeah. You played on that at. Yeah you played on that. Yeah. and it's McGils it's like classic McGil playing U, Did you ever get to did you ever Susie Susy in the bance she as a They're such a mystery to me, but I love them. Yeah. Did you ever get to meet? he passed away, but did you ever get to me him or I think Susy, Tom said that when we did the shows, the radio shows last year, Susy Susie came to the London show. I think she's friends with Tom. she's Queen. Yeah. The Queen of punk. Absolutely. Yeah. One of my favorites. Yeah, know and she and she did that had a beautiful, you know, she you know, graduated from the School of punk and went on this incredible this incredible journey. So yeah Again, deeply creative. Yeah. So back to those sound terms and it's when you say sound is what does it for you It's more it's music sound, but it's more it's the texture. Yeah, the texture and the texture of it. and I'm really I don't like, I mean one of the things on my album was don't like I'm always trying to undigitize it. I don't like it when it's too clean. Picularly on this record, I had this I was really sort of kind of obsessed with that era of recording from about sixty eight, sixty nine to seventy three, seventy four. And particularly for me, what characterized that was you had the move from sort of analog, but you were getting transistors. in the amps and some of the components which gave you clearer top end. So I'm thinking in terms of recordings so miles in a silent way. you know, Minnie Ripperton, any of the, you know, the Charles Stephanany stuff. You know, we' with Earthw and fire Yesterday. Were you? Yeah. Oh my. they were here yesterday Wow Wow T we t play I played them demo that Charles Stepney did of that's the way of the world the world. That's the way the world. Ch like It was Charles Stepney demo first And I played they were like kind of like they hadn't heard wayay back then. Wow. Philip Bailey was like, I think you have like like a Latin kind of flavor to it. And then like I put it on I was like,, yeah, that's the thing I heard way back before we cut it. It kind of was it was. Well, they were like, I mean Earthwind and Fs there's a lot to say they were the greatest group ever. You know, I know a lot of people say like the Beatles were, but would I would hit back with Earthwind and Fire and slim the familyily stone. You know, somethingomething about those three not too dissimilar either and just the like, you know the greatest, you know, they they they like Stevie Wonder maybe Stie Wonder Well, you know, he was so listen I say this just now at KCIW Has there ever been an artist who's had a greater run of albums than Stevie did from like sixty eight right through toter than July in nineteen eighty? Yeah. Nobody has People forget about H.'sbelievable. It's a killer.believable. I remember remember seeing what was the single off it called Well, there was Jammin. Jamm. Jam. Master Blaster Master Blaster Holy shit, when that was on top of the pops, I remember like and Stevie had the dreads with the beads. Yeah. And like I didn't know all of Stevie's I was a kid, so I didn't know Stevie's stuff before that, but You know, I I remember actually the joy of discovering Stevie like in properly in nineteen ninety two and like in a vision. What? Talking about it, you know, first fulfilling this first finale, you know, It's just Unbelievable. So yeah, I mean, I think in terms of bands though Yeah Sly and Earthmin and fire and the Beatles like, I mean, just You know, take your pick on whatever mood or day you want, right? Yeah. And not sit. not just because you're here. Yeah. Radiohead might slip in there somewhere. It list it may not have been long enough. If we're the D list we could the C list the D list of that lot, I'd take that as long as But there's there's a similarity I guess the the parallels would be really tight I don't know if you want to say that but just really great songs. justust great song. likeike just song songs seem to come first and then a I mean, not I was talking earth f about that yesterday because Yeah, it's like The arrangements were so wild on Earth twenty five songs, but the songs did not get lost ever. Like you knew even as a lay personerson, you knew exactly what was happening and where it was going. But there was something way crazier happening underneath and that's the Beatles, that's slide, And you know with the other ingredient familyily that we're all family. You know, like my my radio headads Bander Bothers. Sly family stone family Yeah. Earthmen and fire family. How many whites you know Yeah. They're family they become families and like families, they argue and they do all of that But there's a lot of love and I think that I think that is because Music is magic you know, that the medum we work in is it's there's, you know, as Quincy Jones used to say, like You know, you wait for God to walk through the room. You know, and there is that and that's what there's the magic of that How do you summon God? Well, first all we have to work hard, sppirit. That's a given. But the second thing, I think spirit comes through you when it can see the love. And the love doesn't have to be your old palally. The love is just it's there. Yeah. It's like it's a brotherhood, a sisterhood. Yeah. Well, Maurice White, I mean, like what was he trying to do? He was trying to make sacred music essentially, right? move shift the consciousness of the world. Yeah. that's spirit. So We're all conduits. That band when they're in it, they're working as once. I mean, has there ever been a tighter band than than Earthwind and fire. they didn't have any click tracks and they're in it, but They were they were co creating with sppirit. Yeah. So I think and the Beatles, you know, definitely were as well. I think there's that element is As I understand it kind of from the inside, that's a huge part of Now my brotherss in the Balmiger what you took That's what I feel. and that's kind of, I know. I feel like this are really good.ate hate segways that are too good, Incantations is the first right. And I feel likebe we should listen a little bit. Yeah long ago Thase you F it all full You can do the h. The Oh S sub on my sister'sraz sounds so good. I'm hearing stuff. hearing stuff I didn't hear before It's amazing, man Thank you, Thank you. Thank you. T Talk about textures, there's all kinds of textures. There's so much the range, the dynamism of that is wild How did How did that song come about? That comes that was when the sort of the The first shoots of this album were really from a very dark place. and I fell into this This sort of very dark depression which I sort of reframed it and it was like a dark night of the soul. And that was one of the songs. During this process, one of the things I did, I had a daily practice which was literally just pick up my guitar and play, go to this little room. it was in the second lockdown. play for three hours. and it was just therapy And that was one of the songs, one of the musical motifs of the cyclical guitar riff sort of emerged in one of these sittings And when I heard it, I was like Oh, that's the place that I am at. I felt like I was in this labyrinth. I was stuck in this labyrinth I didn't know how to get out this place. And you know the story of the Greek myth of Theseus and the mininotaur and Theseus gets thrown in the labyrinth And it' this maze that was constructed by King Minos of Crete, Midas of Crete. And there was a beast in there And in order to get out, he had to slave the beast. you'd get lost so nobody had got out King's daughter had fallen in love with him and her name was I think her name was Ariry Adney. and Ariry Adne had this thread that she gave to Theseus as he was descended down and so he had to follow the thread out, but on the way he also had to slay the minotaur, this half man, half beast. So that was literally so that it's funny with music what I've kind of What I think is extraordinary about the medum music is that You know, music is essentially maths. it's mathematical intervals in patterns This music can come out of of view or it's, you know, I don't know how it happens and it somehow manages to capture the emotion of where you are at that time. So that was a really dark place and for me, that was always the opener of the album. And you know, the whole idea of incantations was I had this feeling that I spend a lot of time in Wales our houses in Wales and It's in the hills there and it's very wild countryside. It's very ancient And there's a power in this land, you can feel it. And I had this image of So a lot of the time I go walking in the these ancient old trails that like thousands of years old and you could feel it But I could feel the power of the land and I felt that was healing me So I feelelt incantations are like spells and ancient, you know, it's very Celtic, a lot of you know, Celtic spirituality, they invoked spirit and And my image was of that Shakespeare play Macbeth, the Three witches around the cauldron in this wood and cauldrons's bubbling and there's a fire and they're delivering spells of a to told bubble and trouble. And I had this thing of like The earth is going to heal me You know, she's going to heal me And so that's That's what I was sort of throwing into the mix of this dark place and it was yeah, it sort of It's funny how these things emerge and it wasn't a conscious thing. I wasn't like the thing about this record was it wasn't I wasn't controlling it in a way. it just comes out. and my job was to not get in the way. my job was What is this I didn't know what I knew where I kind of didn't know where we were starting and I didn't know where we were finished, but I knew when we were finished. Yeah. You know, I knew it like okay, this is But that was what's so beautiful about this whole process was just letting go. What is this? But it started with just you in a room Yeah in a guitar. Yeah and slowly became a little more. Yeah, it got to a stage wherey and I was working with Paul Ltworth and Riley McIntyre. Paul's a brilliant co writer and So we would sort of work stuff up in my studio. and in his studio three of us And then it gets to a time when I need to get musicians in, I need to get a band in So my great's my brother, David Kumu. He's a solo artist in his own right. He played on my first record. I've known him for a while I went to see his band play at the roundhouse in London and the Seven Gens, David Koan, and the seeven generenerations, Seven Gens. and It was mesmeric and I saw and it was just at the time that we were I think I need to get a band together and Finding a musical family is not easy, right? Yeah. And it's like, okay So it was like, Dave, Can you put a band together? And he said, how about the seeven Gz? I said I'm in. So these incredible players, Eve Fernandez on bass, Dancy on drums, Crispin Fyon Ccussion Nick Ram on Keys and Eskar, who became a She's a vocalist for Dave as well. She became a really important part of the whole project. Aaz. So I sort of borrowed his family and we had three days of recording and It was just kind of a utopian recording experience. These guys are so good and they got the viib as the song we would I that song was the first song we did and we I think we did it on a Monday Everybody gets and we start playing eleven. And I remember Riley I kind of primed, I said, Listen, and he knew the musical references, I said, I want it to sound like You know, I want it to sound like that era sixty eight, seventy three. I don't want to sound too jig, It's not be clean. I kept on saying', you know, this there's got to be dirt under the fingernails here. You got to feel the earth Yeah. You know, you got to feel that, you know, you got to feel the saturation. I was really influenced. You know who does it obviously really well Um, inflow and Danger mouse. All the work they did with Michael Kuanua, right I love the saturation, I love the sound of those records great record. Right. And so Riley knew. And so I remember just we've gone through a couple of takes and just settled down, everyone have a cup of tea and Riley played me monitorix so I was like, shhit, okay We've got the sound Pling's good It was amazing. And in Paul's studio which is an old church. Yeah. a holy space. It was just kind of magical. Wow, an it's an old church that he. Yeah, he b his property. Well no, it's in Crouch End in London. It was originally owned by Dave Stewart of the Arithmics. He owned it and then and actually Radiohead we recorded some Vocal computer in there back in ' ninety seven And then he sold it to David Gray. And then Paul bought it off David Gray. I don't know about twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen. when Paul because Paul was a co You know, he worked with Adele and co wrote Rolling in the Deep and produced that So he put all his good fortune into this amazing studio and has got the best gear and has just made it this incredible space. Two studios there. And he came from block party Yeah, that's right. Paul came from that background, and then he found himself to be he like was was producing Florence the Machine Dell, you know, and then went on. he became like the Ais producer. Yeah you know, and went down plow that furrow for a while M mustust have been nice to get back to this a bit though. Yeah I think it was good. you know, what was lovely, what was lovely about it was we connected. I mean, you know, when I work with Paul, I I wasn't wororking with him because he was the AS producer Yeah. I work with people I realize this, I work with people that I love You know, I can't do it with people I don't love Wh why Be it's such a personal thing making you spend so much time with them. and I'm just like one of those people. I'm a heart person. So Paul and I connected, you know those moments in life when you talk to somebody, We spoke on the phone before we'd ever met.. We werere off and running for an hour. And and it's like a it's like a soul connection. And so I think it was great for both of us. It was great for me because he's an incredible songwriter. so it was great to bounce stuff ideas off him and he, you know, he Slfegio, the track Slfegio, he started that. he initiated that. So It was really, you know, because when you work on when you're a solo artist, you need You need people to riff with? The more ideas, the better. So yeah, it was really amazing working with him. Did it ever did you ever find it getting too far from where you wanted it and you had to move it back or I't I didn't know where we were going. so I was embracing it all and it was very much very much I'm use that word leaning into, but I'm really leaning into serendipity and synchronicity because I have a I have a very strong spiritual practice and What's been beautiful about this journey is that I have this utter conviction and I know that You have everything around you' given everything around you in order to evolve. You have all the circumst all the things you given. So When you meet people and chance seemingly chance happenings or occurrences you know, are given to you There's often things there. so I really leant into that and if the music wanted to take a left turn We just followed that and I didn't worry What I was good about was I would flag out, I would say I'm not feeling this Again what's been really I again, one of the things I learnt on this record was in the past and certainly where I've come from, if you flag up saying, I'm not feeling this The The onus is to find a solution and go, I'm not feeling this, but we should do this. Yeah and I I was the site I was like not into that. I was like, I'm not feeling this, but I don't know what to do. And leaving the space that you don't know, you don't have the answer Yeah. because I think the ego wants to go, I know how to sort this out. This is how what we do. this is the way forward. But what I do is I would just like I would go Cool, Rady I don't know why I'm just not feeling this. And it's almost everyone can tell in the room and everyone go, well, I don't know. And what was so amazing was withithin an hour, you'd found the solution. But the solution like the rififf that emerges, it comes through. So what I feel like it is, is you're leaving room for spirit to go, o, I've got the solution. Yeah. And you just pick it up, say, o, it's that. Yeah. It's all part of the process of letting go. and that for me is why I mean, I've gone up another love in in creativity and recording because the less I know I feel the rhoric becomes or the less the less I have solutions. ust it's like, o, it wants to go this way Yeah. And I love that because that's where you get surprises. Yeah. rather than like imposing your own rigid idea of what it should be I'm not into that. I'm like, I don't know what this is Let's see what it is. You have the things that you resonate with, like you point out like I love this sound and you know, and we did a whole thing spent a couple of days like listening to music that you know, from that era and also Kwanukra and a lot of salt stuff we going like, I love this. I love the sound of that. And so you build up like a a mood board Yeah of sounds and kind of flavors and then you go, but that again is intuitive and what's intuition? it's like following another thread. Yeah. So I really love that whole kind yeah, like I said, letting goes. ust it's just amazing. It's interesting. Listen to you keep talking and I'm realizing as I'm thinking this through, I mean, art really is one of the few spaces in life where G getting lost is a virtue. Yeah. And I think you know, when I heard someone say a definition of an artist, it's like it's really following your intuition. Yeah. And I think that's so amazing because, you know The mind can go. what's so interesting, the mind will go. The mind is the sum some parts of all your experiences. So your mind says you can do this, you can do that, you can't do that. So it's kind of limiting. But your intuition, I was this intuition though And your mind can only see what's in front of you. The intuition can see around the bend And the intuition can also see your arc, your journey of life And I really believe that. And I think so the intuition goes This might seem mad at this stage And you go and you double go in but this feels really good That's what we must do. We must follow that thing and we're like, I don't understand it, but and it might not make sense now But you can be sure if you do that. At some later stage, it' make sense What's also true about intuition, it's almost like a muscle that has to be used. So again, You have to look after your intuition. Your intuition needs It needs nurturing and I've learnnt that over the years. there are things things you do and don't do that help sharpen your intuition those which also dull it, you know and blunt it So what do what do you how do you keep your intuition Well, I think humility is a big part of that Gratitude for my spiritual practice, thingsings to avoid, drugs You know, you know, cocaine and things like that, they're not great for your intuition And you know, you again, you don't know I don't know. I've met some I don't know. you know, I've had some conversations. Well the thing is when you're when everything's going I don't know that's true, but yeah, yeah, yeah. I think but it's not a long term solution. Yeah. I think those things can be that's why people get into them. they go super quick and they're like wow But it won't last. And so I think I think it's Yeah, for me, it's sl and relying on it and Taking time out and stillness. I think still I have a strong meditative practice So I think all these things and Listening honoring as well what you feel and your truth. I think that's super important because it's like rather than doing The shoulds It's like, what do I feel? What do I really feel? And I think again, if you keep doing that with your intuition, then your intuition gets stronger and rewards you and it like it builds up its own confidence or it becomes stronger like a muscle. Yeah When do you think you learned this? That's a really good question. I donon't know I really don't know. I mean it's I've been on this spiritual journey, I've been on this journey, I call it spiritual journey. I've been on this journey like essentially it started off as a journey of healing and It's been going on since about two thousand two It's a really good. I don't know there was no Eureka moment, but on my journey on healing, trying to heal myself and become whole, if you like What Ive found is's a it's a It's just been a series of things that you do and you work out things that work for you and don't work for you. and then It's just and it can be everything from Nutrition to meditation, to the people you hang out with, being a good gatekeeper yoga, all these things, I mean You know, it's really interesting. So I don't think there was any moment and you know, listen,'m you know, someone could turn around and go, that's bullshit. and I go, Yeahah, you're probably right. I don't. But I'm just I guess I'm a seeker. You seem like a seeker. I'm a seeker. I'm defin and true. Yeah, ye, right. Always. And like I remember like at school, like You know, we'd have these lectures when you're seventeen eighteen, every week you have visiting lectures in wee You know you'd have like we were in Oxford, you'd have an Oxford academic and you'd have a lawyer and And then I remember one week there was this guy who came along and he was talking about Tibet and he was talking about spirituality and Buddhism. And all my mates are kind of like hippie. This is like nineteen eighty five And I'm like transfixed And you know, there was this thing that if you could go and have a coffee with the lecture afterwards And I was straight and I was the only guy there and I was just like fascinated. So it's in my DNA. It's like I've always been I've always loved I grew up in a So there was Oxford, but when my pares split up we moved to West Oxfordsire, and it's veryery old Britain. it's about two miles from this a place called White Horse Hill, Uffington, White Horse. Beautiful chalk white horse in the hill, It's beautiful image. It's the front comer of English settlement by XTC. Oh right. because they were from Swinden just down the road but it's an ancient part of Britain and Averyvery's down the road. So I was always I was always drawn to I guess places, old power, nodes of power, spirit, places you know, so againgain, I followed my intuition and music's great for that because how many musicians Well we were talking about Leed Zeppelin earlier. I mean that's steeped in and you think it like, you know talking about earthwind and fire and so it's in this music. So I think it's a natural thing. So I'm just seeking I'm justort eyes open and also about twenty years ago, I did this sing where asat I'm not going to let my creative or my critical faculty get in the way of anything because it's very easy to go, what are you doing that for? You come from Oxford. How can you empirically prove that? know Where's the academic rigor I let that go and I said, I'm going to read everything and anything. And I'm going to just see how it sits. and I'm going to experience stuff and Brazil to see healers and all this stuff and I'm like, okay, I'm going to experience it and see how that feels and then I'll decide you know, what do I resonate with? And it just carries on. so And that goes back. I mean, it's like, you know, the Tibetan Buddhist. gu giving a lecture at your university. The one thing university couldn't give you it wasn't supposed to give you, but it somehow did. It did. was that, you know. And it so it's so brilliant and what I love about Life is that you realize you're given Oh, I feel I've been given these little markers along the way and they could be They could be the parents of a friend when you're growing up who were the only Bohemian couple that you knew who he was a writer and an artist and you go in their house and it was like, Oh my go, it can be like this. Family can be like this. So we're given all these little things. and yeah, like I said, I really sense that the universe gives each of us what we the circumstance well It certainly given me the circumstances in order to evolve and the things around me, it's my It's my decision whether my eyes and ears are open to that stuff Yeah azing You brought up Brazil.. I wish should maybe go to Alb. Yeah, great As I was listening to I was listening to the record without looking at the titles I was listening. And I was like, man, it's not like I said, Didd Is there something Brazilian going on with this? And I looked at the title I go. Yeah. There we go. Yeah, exactly. I heard it. Yeah Fessa Wh I don't know, it's. So many nice lookqu. So many nice touches. Thank you. It's nice to hear on the big S system, m. I haven't heard that loud with lots of sub. It's great. Yeah. I love it's the the groove is subtle. R. And then it opens up and it's just ye ye And it's full on, you know at that point. It's amazing. And then all the nice little little synth that was going on right there in the backround. Selina strringsather, yeah. Is that what it was Yeah. And who was that singing in the That's Eskca. Okay. She's amazing. She's going to be we're all going to go out on tour Eskca and David play guitar and yeah, she's she's just a Beautiful singer. Wow. Yeah. When are you guys going out? We're going to go out in October in Europe and hopefully, you know you know, economics dependently, but we've got to come I mean, having spent like two days in L.A, I'm like, I want to come to LA and play this. Let's book it tonight. Yeahight. I want to get the party and I want to get the vibe and you know, I feel like it'd be such a great place to come here you know, the connections and, you know, meeting people like yourself, it's like there's a there's a It feels like it's open. it's got the sadness, but it's got the joy in there as well. notot to get the rail, but is interesting. There's a lot of The bad will towards Los Angeles lately for some reason. and Yeah liiving here, I don't feel it, you know. So it's weird I hear it a lot, you know, I hear it People get jealous.ret pretty great. They jealous People are living here, though. I don't know are they jealous. See people from here are leaving here. Wow Oh forgot that come didid that come from a visit to Brazil? You mentioned Hank spending some time there. Yeahveve spent a lot of time in Brazil and I love Brazilian music and we went to live there, my family. We went to live there for about six, seven months a few years ago always been there and for me, it's the whole thing about Brazil. it's the people, it's the land, it's the music, it's the soccer, it's the love, it's the spirituality, it's the dance, it's the And it's a tough place to live. you know, theres poverty', you know, they've got real problems, economic problems in terms of the division of wealth, but you know, Lula and Dila And the workers partarty have done amazing things. in the last twenty years. So There's an emerging middle class, there's It's just a beautiful it's funny. it's one of those things. Have you ever been to Brazil? I've not. It's on top of my lip. Well you should go. It's good I also what I love it, it feels like every colour sun Yeah. You know, you've got a Japanese community they've lived there for A hundred years and they're Japanese, but they're Brazilian And it's it's got, you know, it's it's just Beautiful and they deal with the different than the states and England in terms of the diversity is dealt with differently. hundredundred percent. And I remember like I had when I first went to Brazil with my wife in two thousand, we have to be on the same flight as a couple of friends One of my friends is this guy called Trevor, he' British And he'd never been to Brazil. None of us have been to Brazil. and we We were staying in Rio and five days later we bumped into them on Epineema And we went for a drink and Trevor was really and I said, Trevor, how are you finding? He said He said, I feel comfortable in my skin finally. He said you know, even in Britain, you know, I've grown up with this, you know, having to been very conscious of being black. Yeah. He said, I come to Brazil, I'm home. Yeah. you know. Well and you know, Brazil took the most amount of slaves from West Africa by year, this incredible state, which is kind of like my favorite place in Brazil is the Black stay. You know, it's where they had the most slaves and The music and the culture canandombleate. It's like And what I love about it is You know, it's like it's just seemed the assimilation is just softer and you know, obviously in America, you got you've had serious problems with that. And we did in Britain as well. You know, we were an empire, a terrible empire Brazil, for whatever reason and the Portuguese weren't great either, but It seems to be almost Almost, I don't know, it just seems to be a bit more of a melting pot Yeah Yeah, you know, and music there is, you know, you've got this you've got the you've got the rhythm of Africa And the spirit, but you've got some of the little melodies from European from the Portuguese. Portuguese. Where do you have this in? whichich is so specific. It's such a specific flavor of melody. Yeah that gives it this And when you hear the samba like Carnival Samba Yeah, it's exe we went to Carnival in Brazil In Rio in twenty thirteen And you really get it there because they're very tight about the music. So Battery are the drums, it's all I mean, it's West African, right? But then they've got these little I come Cavocinos are they call these eight string kind of mandolins And they're bigoting and they're really they're just like European kind like They're like almost far O S kind of. It's like that high pitch. Yeah, but it it's a heady brew and like I mean talk about trance music. That is the first trance music. You go to, you know, because Carnival runs some tenen at night through to six in the morning They're very specific. so Samba has this very specific tempo And part of the battery, you get the you get the the rhythmic and the drums and stuff but underpinning it these big bass drums and they go, boom And that's the tempo with All six Samba schools each nights over two nights of twelve Sambers And you go to you go to bed at seven in the morning and you just boom, boom, boom. It's like it's and it's it's incredible. That's awesome. You get into the state And the rhythm is like these polyrhythms and it's just I mean, it's like rhythmic jazz. Yeah. And what's so amazing is like the battery will do some kind of rhythmic, polyrhythmic move And not only the musicians get it, but the whole the whole audience because they're so savvy. they go And you can hear the cheers and British man unabel Well it sounds good, but I didn't understand that significant moment. Yeah, but it's a little thing Yeah and and they all go Yeah It's amazing. Yeah. It's just such an extraordinary country. Oh man. I love it. I can't wait to go The music is just it's unbelievable. It's next level, right? Speaking of there's that famous Quincy Jones interviewer I tal about him earlier, he interjects the talk. he's talking want something wild. and he goes to interviewer You like Brazilian music? Yeah. Yeah. And it's like so funny, but also at the same time it' like, yeah Qincy, that's right. Yeahah justust tell everyone because it's of the best music in the world. It's unbelievable I've heard. And like those composers and go back to Jobim and all that ye. I mean, what they were doing and then taking the beauty and the subtleness of sam but, it's all in there Yeah, ye, absolutely. Tell about the, you know, record four, threety two. Tell me you know anything about it. mininimal. So standard tuning, our tuning has been standardized since the end of the nineteen thirties. Middle eight equals four hundred forty hertz So you get a tune of that' s how Eight Middle A being right next to middle sea. Yeah, yeah, okay exactly. So middle eight four forty hertz There is a whole music used to fluctuate a bit more because they didn't have tuners. and There's a whole I've been on this journey now for about fourteen years And there's this whole there was this whole school of thought that a lot of old music up until the end of the nineteenth century was played and obviously composed at four hundred and thirty two Htz And the idea being is that it's more whole. And there's this, have you heard of Simatics where they blow They blow frequencies, sound waves at sand and they form patterns Now four forty herz It's kind of Frazzled. Yeah at four thirty two hertz. Perfect geometric patterns Wow. so given That's what it's doing to your cells and your body. So I'm really interested in that idea of music doesn't not just It's not just nice on the ear. There's a something that goes on a sort of cellular deeper level And there was really I did an interview with Rlling Stone the other week and James Blake has gone, I think he's gone four through two Ziggy Marley. There's a whole movement.'s Shebecca Hutchinings who played on this record I had a conversation with him about the reason he came and played on the record is I had a conversation about four three two and I think people a lot of people opening up to it. and for me I feel it makes the music more whole. Now a lot of people go, oh you would do you know, but I feel it. And so I think it's I was really keen, I'm really keen to really go for it. So it's easy for a guitar to be four thirty two herz, but a keyboard you know, piano. So I I committed to it had our piano Tuned to four three two, I' got Rhodes, tuned to four three two. I'm going to experiment actually at four four four slightly sharper I'm really interested in A lot of classical is at like four four two right Oer pitches four four twostand. Yeah But I'm really interested in just like it used to be varied. and I don't like things when they get locked in and standardized. It's like, this is the rule. A must equals four hundred forty hertz And it's great because it's a bit of a rabbit hole but There's some very interesting theories about this, like You know There's this whole thing how the Nazis standardiz tuning at four hundred forty hertz. There's all this up I don't know because you know like any information at the moment, you don't know whether it's two or not You got it. it, but you just got to go on what you feel. Yeah. And also there is some science behind it. Yeah. Maybe it's just the music, but you kind of feel somethinges under this. and it could just be the music But maybe everything someome of the tun's everything. I think it's everything. and it's interesting because a lot of people said Gu yeah, I put the record on. It sort of makes me feel calm and that's what four three two does. It's more whole. And remember We are all frequencies. You know, we Everything in this room, all of us, we're frequencies, the future medicine will be frequential healing. that illness that you have is that flu you have is at a certain frequency. So you know, like homeopathy, you match it with another frequency, the same frequency and knock it out and knock it out. So we are all frequencies. so there's science in there. I'm gonna to do deep dive on. I'm gonna to do deep dive on it now. I feel like I could change my whole life. After a break, we'll be back with more from Ed O'B Brian My kid's favorite place in the entire world to visit is New York City. So much so that they're begging me to come on my work trip I'm taking there in the next few weeks. 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It's the car that gives you back all you put in Learn more at chase. com forward slash reserve businessus Chase for business, make more of what's yours. accccounts subject to credit approval, restrictions and limitations apply Cards are issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, NA member FDIC a couple random last questions.. I always wanted to ask, and I don't know if this may may maybe this is But guess on your bad side, the pretty things In the square and paranoid Android C you ever heard the similarities between the two? No. I was always just curious. Can I play the pretty? S How it No, I'm curious Do people think it's some kind of lift? Well, I don't know. I've always just kind of heard it. that's interesting. Not a lift. I'll be completely honest, obviously, if we were influenced by it, or maybe I wouldn't. Maybe you won't. I don't We can cut it if you quit, donon't mention the pretty thing. Yeah no, I've never heard the pretty thing.ave you heard have you heard that parachute that came out No' I don't even know the pretty things. Oh I said it's a really good really good album this song on it? And they have like a bit of a the top of them after like the second song, they do a bit of like a Medley Aby Rhod style kind of Medley, but at the top of the album, this is One of the one of the She came running. I was looking to. It's good, isn't it? It's nice, kind of the era. Yeah. It was like in Melody Maker or something. It was like right behind Let it be or something fur this.ike It was number two for like album of the Yeareen se or something. It kind of got locks of time. Yeah, I take noterice Oh wow ee we go major there that's minor. Okay. Okay. Wow. There's a switch. Okay. You go maor God Yeah, they say minor. So it's G minor F over you know, G minor and then we go major, E major, that stays E minor. Okay I think, you know, wow. Okaykay, that spell Dt They they got me Tom. Yeah, no, I mean, you know, but also I think I remember when I first heard that when, you know, you know, we in the rehearsal studient, Tom sort of brought that in and I think that was It's very Moriconei called change as well. like we were listening to Lauren Moriconei. So I think what I loved about when he brought that in was suddenly like That song and that actually those chords All all of them becausecause they were very Latin They felt very Latin. It suddenly we went We went more widescreen Yeah, so that's well, that's really interesting.. Yeah, I'm gonna check that I'm glad, I'm glad you heard it too.. Yeah, ye, no. o yeah.a go's the same It's the same step down and you know, it's it's the G minor with the F over the G, you know, But I mean, yeah, I'm sure I'm sure it's all Wow. Okay. All I've revisited Hail of the thief Yeah, a lot the last Oh interesting. Three years out don oft, you know, like a lot, a lot. It feels like it has its own Hm. I mean every album sort of does. Even Kid A and Amnesiac, even though I know they get groups together quite a bit have a distinct feel. But there's something really about Hle of the Thief that feels somehow Like a like a like the perfect balance of everything came really before it. Wow, that's Yeah ye. I don't know if you hear that or feel that. Well it's interesting. so that is interesting because That was Hail to the Thief was a response to When we made Kid A and Amnesic, those songs were largely conceived in the studio and we learnt how to play them out on the road and we felt like we were bringing life So that tll for T was Obviously playing stuff from OK compomuter and the Bs. but also interpreting the stuff from Kid A. And I think it was the first time that we, again, we had to expand our kind of palete in terms of you know how we got those songs, how we did those songs on Kid A and Amnesic Live.. And I think you're right that it's true that and coming to think of it. So we were excited by the way, we changed as a live band, making those two albums changed us We had to we had to bring in more stuff and I think held the thief was we didn't want to go back into the studio for a really long time. We just didn't want to go through that intense period that KidA and Amzet was so we were sort of letting go a bit more and just doing what we were doing live. So yeah, that's that's a good point. Yeah, I think you're right there. So Kid and Anesiac did feel a little it felt intense in that it wasn't So you weren yes, it was it was It was wasn't the band in its natural state No Exactly. No, completely. And it was forcing it was like an art school. It was very much a bowie thing. It's like we're going to change tack here. And this is the kind of music. Well we didn't know exactly what it would be like, but Tom was like, I'm done with melody and more rhythm and more textures because you can't force those things on. they have to sound natural, but It wasn't the natural state of the band. We were becoming something else. and there was a lot of stuff on that was played as a band. It was juxtaposed with a lot of stuff that we were stretching out using different instruments and different types of songs and samples and all sorts. It's still a hell of a catalogue. It's like to contend with. you go, but you know, I'll go away from it for a long time and I come back and it's like, oh, it's still there. know it wass funn onene of the funny things about because we did the shows last year it might It might sound a bit weird this, but One of the really lovely things was in the process of it, like when rehearsing, I was like, Yeah. These are really good songs. in a way I appreciate them in a way that I'd never appreciated them before because you're just doing it Yeah. But then you stop doing it. And also I guess the other thing is that there was the first time that we weren't doing new material So that whole thing was you could kind of really feel the songs in a way that we haven't before in terms of know they're areas of our life, but also beauty of the songs and the beauty of the way we play them. Yeah. And that was so that was really lovely. and I could really understand in a way. I could feel the emotions of the songs. could understand why people liked us, which you know, before, you know, I wasn't shock but I didn't fully understand it, but I understood. I was like, oh yeah, these are and like you said, it's a really There's a lot of really good songs there and you can play you can have two sets of quite different material each night and they're all pretty strong. So Yeah, I think u Yeah, it's it's a Yeah, it's a good place to be. Do you think you guys were playing them different on this last tour? Or do you like Yeah, I don't know. I don't It's it's funny because You don't want to get too slick with radiohead songs. It's like you need to have some jeopardy. You need to feel like at times it's gonna all fall over the edge. you know. And that's really good. We've because we've always had a there's always been a a slight kind of nail biting element to what we do. because you know, the place we've been, however What's lovely is that we can play songs like present tense, which is essentially I've always loved it because feels like a Brazilian song off Awesome