Spirit Power and Soul and Future

This is an IiHart podcast Guaranteed human. My kid's favorite place in the entire world to visit is New York City. so much so that they're begging me to come on my work trip I'm taking there in the next few weeks. And this time they want to go to Central Park because we missed it last time If you're planning any upcoming trips, instead of letting your home sit empty while you're gone, you could be listing your space on Airbnb, giving travelers, like me, a place to land while they visit somewhere new It's a smart, practical way to make use of your place while you're away and earn some extra cash at the same time And now with the cohost network, you could hire a local cohost to handle everything like managing reservations, guest communication, and even styling your space. 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Designer shoe warehouse is packed with fresh styles that speak to your whole vibe without saying a word Cool sneakers that look good with everything, The easy sandals you'll want to wear on repeat, the SW has you covered Find a shoe fororever you from the brands you love, like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas Snew Balance, and more. Head to your DSW store, or visit dsw. com today skin Johnny Mre is maybe the last in a line of acclaimed British guitars. He's played with tons of bands, including most famously the Smiths Mar started playing guitar as a young teenager growing up in Manchester. When he turned fifteen, he dropped out of school and moved to London to join the band Sister Ray A couple years later, he wound up helping to form the Smiths, with Morrisy, Mike Joyce, and Marars's friend and bassist Andy Royar. Then after the Smiths broke up in ' eighty seven, he went on to collaborate with an array of different musicians and playing bands like The Ptenders, the D, and even later Modest Mouse In the early Ats, Mars started releasing solo material, and he's on the brink of releasing a new album full of the best songs from his solo career On today's episode I talk to Johnny Mar about his exciting work in the studio with Ferrel and A Zimmer also recalls the terror he felt performing live in front of massive stadiums full of fans with the pretenders on YouTube's Joshua retoy He also talks about the time he bought a feender stratocaster with Noel Gallagher from Oasis That strat had nine pickups and eventually led him to write one of the best songs of his solo career. This is Broken Reord Lanner nototes for the Digital Age. I'm Justin Mitchman Here's my conversation with Johnny Maarr It seems like a really sort of whirlwind time in your life. It must be. like a lot of things that are connected to you. do you know what? I've been really looking at it hand on heart and maybe accept for I don't know, period in my I guess mid thirties or something where, you know, for a couple of years I was sort of like doing other things, but I feel like I've been busy for like forty years or something I know it sounds crazy, but'm I'm kind of busy because I'm a workaholic. Well actually it's a bad way of putting it. I'm really passionate about what I do. I've been doing the same things as intensely As I do now, I've been doing that since I was fifteen. I left school at fifteen to join a pro band with adults at fifteen and then really ever since nineteen eighty two where when I've made my first record with the Smiths I just feel like I've never really stopped, you know, so I've been obviously I feel very very grateful to be to do that book Yeah, I mean, I suppose the last the last big thing I did was the Bom movie with and Zima This year really we've got a best off coming out. I was on tour with the killers last year And right now I'm just rehearsing to go out and do some more stuff really, you know, I've not done a solo bestest of yet before. That's about to come out now And that was that was to do with the record company and the management just kind of went, Hey, look We know that you're going be expecting to go in and make another LP, make another album Well, you only just done a double album last year. so just hold your horses and let's just it's been ten years since you've had this solo band And let's just put it all on a best o. if you think it's a good listen Let's do it Do you like it? Have haveave you sequenced it and listened? Yeah. ye. You know, I know this might sound a little bit odd toable. being given the assignment to put a bestve out when it wasn't driven by me when come from someone else and going, oh, okay, right. All right, let me look at that. And then getting it all mastered and listening to it, you know Be I had to listen to the test pressings, right? So the test pressings coming It's like, you know, I've been doing this since I was a kid, right Test pressents come, I'm always excited about that. likeike, Oh, great, white labels and you put it on the turntable and you have to sit and you have to listen for any little pops or anything You know, I said to the band Guys last night I got the test presressent into the b. J That's a pretty good album, man It's a good listen You know, because I don't take anything for granted in Aluston. so So I'm pleased with it. It's great. I'd be excited to check that out because I sort of been over the last year just curating Oddly enough, just different playlists of things that you're involved in. like I don't know, just randomly resequencing Smith's records just for fun or Yeah I made a playlist of stuff that was just stuff that you've played on, but weren't like bands that you were actually a part of. Yeah. And then your last record. Fver dreams one through four, I mean It just came out was like a wealth of great material, you know? Thanks I'm glad though. that I've done all of that stuff. I mean, obviously, but I did a couple of tracks with Beck and then I did Maybe four five tracks with John Fishanty and then popped up on records with all these different really cool musicians. Bert Jch. Yeah, yeah, Bert Janch. Yeah. and that was so What as I was doing it I was thinking, w, man, this is Oh, I love this music and what a cool thing, you know. So sell up when John V Shanty invite me over to where he's working on the imperium and it was like I've got these tracks, takeake you pick, and he played me a track and that, I think I can do something on that band. and played me another track. Oh, I've got an idea for that bang. And then you know, a couple of days later, you kind of go, well, that was a nice experience So I feelar what I'm saying is None of it's planned. it's all this kind of, I'm gonna to say it journey. I've being a musician and being very, very fortunate that people who are doing cool things have invited me to do Cool things with them, you know It's never been planned. Is it something about you you yourself as a person or about your plane or a bit of both that allows you to fit in with so many different kinds of people Well guess so, but I think Musicians A very welcoming and inclusive types of people It might be a bit cheesy, but I have a certain kind of pride in that, notot my personal coming about myself, but My, you know, brothers and sisters of music, you know, they because Let's put it this way. I've been around I don't knowether you' ever been in a room with several actors or in a taxi with several comedians Often there's a bit of a competitive vibe. I know it's a generalization, right? I know a bunch of great actors and I know a bunch some great comedians, right? But I've noticed that musicians are very you get a couple of musicians together and they go, Hey, did have you ever heard this thing that came out in nineteen eighty six? Oh man, you're going to love it. Oh I really like this thing. Oh Oh man, did you know that he played the drums on this record in nineteen sixty five And there's always this sharing kind of thing. well, I'm really typical like that as a musician, I suppose I'm very enthusiastic if I hear something that that I'm into And the people that I've mentioned may pet shop boys as well You know, we had a little bit of a tradition for a while there where They would always get me to do the B sides of their singles. They were like, well, okay, we've got this electro pop. and the B side, usually it'd be like this. The B side is slightly experimental. And it'd be interesting to put guitar on it, which in Petsu Bys Land is being experimental which and they go, okay, well, ohny will do it And and I'm the guy for that because I love them and That's so I've got to be on more Pet Sot Bys records than any other musician. I pop up and do all the ones where they go, I listen,'ve got this guitar song, you know. I'm very proud of that. So To answer your question, it's partly to do with my personality being very a very typical kind of musician. That means I will stay in the studio either listening to stories or telling stories till really till three AM or whatever It used to be seven AM, but these days a little bit more moderate. And the other thing is I guess the second thing you mentioned that I like to play guitar that I think is appropriate to whatever the song is So If all us required is No like recently on no Gallaggher stuff, for instance. I'm not going in there going, right, okay, bar eight, you really need to know that I'm on it I just kind of go watchs the song and I sort of think in that regard I'm not really beyond thinking like a session musician. I don't have to really be this big deal on it. You know what I mean? It's the thing I really enjoy about your playing and your career is there is this bit of you that almost approaches music the way like a jazz musician did in the fifties sixties, like Herbie Hancock and put out You know, Pyan Islands then also just go play on like a great Lee Morgan record and And he puts as much of his heart and soul into that side manwork, quote unquote, You can tell as he seemed to have done his own records, you know? Yeah, I mean, that's an absolute honor because I think That sort of feels about right. I think when you were talking then I was thinking paradoxically people who say they don't like jazz or people who don't like jazz think it's about just people blowing but To me, one of the best things about jazz musicians is to be a good jazz musician, you have to listen to listen to what everybody else is doing. It's a conversation. And you know, you can do that in indie Rock. Again, come back to say the most recent thing that I've done with somebody else with no Gallagher stuff. I want to make the record really good You know. So there's bits where you lay out and then there's bits when you play just textal stuff and then there's bits where you come in with the riff and and ultimately it's his record and his vision and he trusts me to do because he knows that I'm all about the big picture. I'm not about me just stepping all over it. Other times though, you know, I did a record with The Australian project Avalanchees a few years ago with me and MG. I thought you were on that Yeah mean and GMC did it a song with them And that was That was really cool because they had this idea for this riff and I said, o okay, well what about if I just develop it and then What I did was sort of featured and that kind of floated through the track So it's whatever is appropriate really. I remember when I was learning Maybe twelve, thirteen, something. So it sort would have been in the mid seventies just for punk broke out Back then there wasn't you know, you wouldn't be able to go in Barnes and Noble or waterstones in England and see like shelves and shelves of books about Anybody You know, I'm sure Justin Bieber has got a whole a whole wall for whatever. Yeah. Yeah. But back then that wasn't a thing, right So I would read the music press and I would go in the library and if a book did appear about whoever it was, I didn't if it caught my interest I would read it or I'd just stand in the bookstore and read it. There's only a few things around. I remember there was one about Pete Sound'snd and there was a Miles Davis one and there was Led Zepplims and stuff. But anyway, when you start off if you're really obsessive as I was, some bits of information really stick to you And there was it was either Keith Richards or John Lennon, I think was saying The most important part of being a guitar player is being able to play rhythm And to a twelve year old boy whose powes are all going d you know trying to play you this shreddy stuff or whatever, when I read the information, I was kind of like, huh It sounded really noble to me and this thing of underpinning the band and having the groove down and all of that. and then obviously as time went on and I got into people like Keith Richards or obviously Nal Rogers and people like that. You know, Jimmy Nolan who plays James Brown and u Any number really great rhythm players That's just one of the chapters that you need to have got through. You know what I mean? It it's just part of Being a guitar player, I think I just think it's really cool to just like be appropriate to the song Yeah. Is your phone just open? You just people just know you're ready to play always or Pret, I know pretty much because it's been that way for years. I mean, a lot I know a lot of people. I mean, I'm always I'm never not available for Brian Ferry I've been Boy can be Brian now since nineteen eighty eighty seven Brian's always writing and he's always he's always making tracks. He's always got tracks upon the go and he comes back to them and all this sort of stuff. So That's been an ongoing thing for years, but then since I guess twenty ten Panzima. if hands want something doing even if it's Something on the on the choir You need a little bit of this. I'll do that. What an incredible relationship I mean, musical relationship you guys have built Yeah, he really taught me a lot. I with Hans' is He's got the soul of a rock musician And if you go to his shows which are now likeike three hours long And it's some of the pieces that he's doing in this current show, which actually my son plays plays in there. I've been I've been upgraded. to the Mar Vversion two, two point zero So my son plays in that, but there are some moments in that show that It makes Kashmere sound like a boy band It's ld. amazingly orrchestrated rock music Part of it is rock music and you know, with me in hands You know, once we get Tking about music and talking about melatrons and fair lights or late sixties strats or what you know, or a tangerine dream or whatever. nextext thing we look at our watch and it's you know, it's quarter past three in the AM, you know, and like Oh we' got We just sit around in studios listening to music, playing music or talking about music.'s So that's what my pals are like. My friends are the same as me, you know, it's what I dreamed of when I was a kid, you know Fchante same kind of character Be around John Frante, the m of guitar players can reference in a given moment and he feels like he's able to synthesize You know, he's like almost like a computer to me. Like talk about AI. It's like how is he pulling from all of that at once? That's's insane. Well it's a couple of things that come to mind when you say that. I think you're absolutely right about John and there's few other people I know like that I think people who are great whoever they are but in my field's musicians, they are experts, absolute experts. and that might sound obvious There's this famous story about when Bob Marley first went into to record and it was like some little four track. and he was like sixteen or seventeen or something. I think it was with coxone or something. And if you hear enough about those stories, you hear, you know, it was kind of a pain in the ass because He would be like The backing vocals are too loud. Theacking vocals are too loud Because he'd studied the coasters and he'd studied the drrifters and he'd studood it Curtis Mayfful in the impressions. So he knew how the backing vocals on those, this was when he was a kid Right? Bame. You could go right across in sports I'm sure in business too, but people who are great are real experts. I guess it's not a surprise because It's your passion So you become obsessive. You become obsessive. Yeah because you're Yeah because you love it That's right, you know. And then the second thing you're talking about there like with Johy is and other people like that And' a lot of musicians like this. they take all of these different elements On to them make sense And then it comes out. but when you hear it goes, Ohh yeah, it sounds like that. So for example, in my case, like For forty years, I didn't really do a lot of interviews in the early Smith days, but when I was asked about guitar playing When I to really nail it down, I was like, well Now Roges B Jch. and James Williamson from the studios Now that's yeah, but that's a pretty like anyone who's followed me for years and years knows that they're my like they're my treat. I mean, obviously I love a lot, you know, I love what Roy Gallgh was doing. I love what You know, Jhny Gee up from the bandhe's and Will Sargeent from the Bunnyman. I mean, there's hundreds. I mean, I could stay of just give you a list and lists of amazing guitar players, obviously. But at first people would were like, huh? comeome again get, what you like Now Rogers, our influencer Smiths, but over time now People know that some of these songs like the I go, well, listen to the boy listen to the second se in the boy with the thorn in his side and or there's a famous you know story about one about Haning Govey just started out as a sheic riff. So point being that That made total sense to me put it all through a funnel you comes in through your own mind And then it comes out and people go, oh yeah, it sounds like Johny Mar, right To me, if I told you what I was thinking of when I was trying to come up with some of these if you' go what I'm so glad toar you mentioned James Williamson too, though. because as much as I love the, you know, Bron Ashton and Ashton brothers James Williamson man, like some of those, I feel like some of that music with James gets discounted. like kill City record Yeah Iggy is just one I mean, I don't know, man. I go to that record all the time because it just it just blows me away. Well, it's amazing because when when I first met No Gallagher, he was a fairly he was young. No would have been about maybe twenty or something, nineteen. I was pretty young myself U mayaybe twenty six, twenty seven, but the first time he came to my house, that was the record I gave him. He wasn't aware of it But I don't know what this is. So what I got from James Wiamson, I had a rit that I was playing when I was about fifteen and it was something like And a friend ofine, Billy Duffy went on it being in the call he said to me, that sounds like give me danger and I was like, Whaty is that? I've never really g me danger. And anyway, so a long story, but truck down Rw power is it? When I heard that, I went, Well, that sounds like the way I'm trying to play Yeah, so you know, the truth be told, I was a bit pissed that someone had already beat me to this this new song I was writing. So James is a massive influence on me. massive. When I heard that, I just kind of went You're on the right path. You know, you do the right thing. And then we'd say just for an illustration, sinners I don't always do this, but sinn as guitar, I don't make a hearars properly. but the Smiths s on handanding glove Well that started off when I first started playing it, it went which is me trying to be chic was my girlfriend said make it sound more like Iggy, so I did and I ended up sounding like that. But and that was the first Smith single, but when we came out, no one. I believe when I said I was now Rogers was a huge influence on me, you know. So You know, that's what musicians are like though, aren't they? And I think maybe creative people as well Sometimes you're trying to copy your heroes and and your limitations kind of I mean, I'm not the first person to say this, but your limitations just kind of put a stamp on what you can and can't do. We're going to take a break and then come back with more of my interview with Johnny Marr I just got back from an amazing family vacation in Northern California It was the perfect reset for our busy lives. Now if you're planning any upcoming trips, you could be listing your space on Airbnb. It's a smart, practical way to make use of your place while you're away and earn some extra cash at the same time. And with the cohost network, you could hire a local cohost to handle everything like managing reservations, guest communication, and even styling your space Find a co host at airbnb. com slash host. Eact nice vacation spot, but without TMobile five G homeome interternet, I feel so cut off. It's scary. Relax, justust breathe in the woodsy woodsiness. ! don't open it. It's a monster. I just know it Buddy, it's just our doorDash driver delivering our T mobile five G home internet. Here you go guys. Thanks. Look, Donald, now you can get the fastest five G homeome internet with same day delivery powered by DoorDash. And it's easy to set up. See, nothing to be afraid of. We're sae Scary how easy it is. Get TMbile five G home Internet delivered the same day, powered by Doorash. Just thirty five bucks a month with auto pay and a voice line. Plus taxes and fees. S day delivery for most internet eligible customers, see if it's an option during checkout. Fastest according to UClA spepeed test based on Speed Test intelligence data secondcond half twenty twenty five All rights reserved Fanatics Fest NYC return to the Jabbit Center july sixteenth through the nineteenth for the biggest sports event weekend of the summer. S stars like LeBron James, Tom Brady, Araron Judge, John Cena, Jaylen Brunson, Serena Williams, and hundreds more. featuring more than five hundred athletes and celebrities, live shows. Eclusive merch, rare collectibles, Satics games with two million dollars in prizes. A full tailgate zone, in New York City's largest indoor FIA World Cup fininal watchatch party. Fanatics Fest is the world's number one sports fan festival. Get your tickets now at fanaticsfest dot comot That's fanaticsfest dot com We're back with more from Johnny Marr How much in terms of Just raw skill Do you feel like you've developed from let's say nineteen eighty to now Well, I took it really seriously. I started Parents. So this day is still really the music freaks So I grew up in a house of Irish parents who And not treated music like it was a religion So if they like someone, they really really, really like them. and u So I want to see my parents who are in their eighties now And my dad was showing me this country music podcast that he just got into. They're still doing it to this day. My mother She's super into like watching new country singers and singer songwriters on YouTube So they were really young when I was a kid, so I was brought up around all these young Irish adults, you teenagers really playing music. So To answer your question, what happened was I just got really obsessed with the guitar. I got my first proper one that I could play chords on when I was about eight or nine. And then I started just trying to play the records on the radio like a lot of people So I started playing, ye know, like getting my own little tunes together and stuff when I was about nine or ten and then enrolling my friends to be this little bands and I was, you know, I'd write I'd do just like T Rex rip offffs really. all my songs were just like T Rex copies and then I just had a sort of natural knack to be at a place to encounter rififfts If I'd have been the sort of person who was You know, just in copying other people and not being a songwriter you know, I probably would have shredding away forever, but you know, but it's not really my thing that really. I wanted to sort of I work off my own band with my own sound, you know? So the skill I've amased, I don't know this is answering your question, but Come back to An Zimer What I did on inception was pretty simple, but when it came to actually playing it on stage with an orchestra like sixty pieces on stage with a choir and all of that stuff. I wouldn't have ever been able to do that when I was in my twenties. I wouldn't have been able to do it in my thirties either really. And I might not have even come up with that really simple part. I think when you get older You kind of know what you're about and it's about What I came up with was kind of right for the movie and I might not have ever been able to do that when I was young, but I practice every day I go through periods where I just practice, practice And then I play absent mindedly when I'm you know, around the house and watching TV. I'm going through another phase now where I'll come in this little studio here and put the headphones on and just play and play and try and get, you know, try and get my chops up mayaybe that's ' I'm going out live or I don't know why, but that connects me to The kidd I was when I was eleven or twelve honestly, it's got nothing to do with career. It's got nothing to do with the Smiths's got nothing to do with like know Johnny Marrow, nothing to do with business or anything. It's because that was my first love when I was ten or eleven. I used to peel off from when kids were playing football or we were whatever, we were climbing trees or whatever. Sometimes I would just go and disappear and I'd go into my room on my own and just play for a couple of hours, not even plugged in and I'd make all these discoveries and u moving chord shapes around and And you know what, man I'm so grateful that I still W to do that? Yeah. for fun It's like it's my hobby Yeah It's the dream for any guitar player to have a setup just like you have and be able to do that all day. That's Yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah mision. you know, whatever respective instrument is, like that's the dream Yeah, But then when it comes time to do an album, sometimes I have to I know myself well enough that I have to think about the guitar in a different way. man this if you give me in a if you give me three more lifetimes, okay, I'd love to be John McLaughlin Yeah,. But I'm also quite happy but I'm also really happy having been the guitar player in Modys Mouse for a few years, that's fine by me That was incredible work, man. Incredible I sure you Mest Mouse record That was because I was in a situation with amazing chemistry There was a moment when We were in Mississippi and we were recording the recording. It was one of those times where it was like maybe what a four o'clock in the afternoon We've been trying to get the backing track down to Some song on week three or whatever. And I was just stood there and then I just had a moment of presresent moment awareness,, you know, as it's called Well I just looked around and I went The chemistry in this room with these bunch of people is really, really special particular bunch of people right now is not just a good vibe, but it's really unusual because one where two drummers in that band. One drummer was his thing was like he might have been like, okay, on this track, I hear Par Rubu or I hear public image public image or I hear Stuart Copeland. So Joe Plumber would be doing that and Jeremiah Greene passed away just only a few months ago. Here wass the other drummer and he would have been going in his head, Oh, this is like fellllow Kotie or this is like a rave or So yeah, there' two drummers like that and then the bass player, Eric Judy, he was Always Writing these like little tunes on either accordion at that time or he was teaching him Yeah he was teaching himself the accordion, teac himself the flute I' some little riff that he'd be playing on the flute and then he'd just go, Oh, I'll just try and to do that on the bass So yeah these really unusual Cool, almost dby baselines And then the other guy in the band, he's a real utility guy and he might have been doing something on a pedal steel or his mind was somewhere else. And then Isaac's got his amazing multil layered lyrical agenda. you know, he's coming from all different places And then I go My thing that I was like when I get out of bed that day or that week I was going This is what I want my this is what I want to bring to this outfit, whatever ageender I've got And it all fit it all just fitted together Did did you have to think through how you might blend with this because it seems like everyone felt like they had their thing and you're kind of getting into it Yeah. Did it take you a second to figure out, okay, this is what I want to bring or was it kind of just luckily instantaneous No, no, I conceptualized it, which I don't mean for that to sound very dry or contrived even though No, I really enjoyed going What's my role here? How can I be really useful? bring something melodic catchy teechnical is a little like Ocean six and I happen to be the kind of British bomb disposal expert. or the sa crracker. I was like the sa Yeah. Yeah. No, I really enjoyed that. I thought, okay I can't just put my head down and go one, two, three, four and just play. I really really enjoyed devising all these parts. and on that record, we were dead for anyone who's interested usually I'm doing all the stuff on the left and Isaac's doing the stuff on the right and we This might be getting a bit muser but When we were coming up with all those songs and those parts, we were in this attic in Portland Sometimes Isac and, the way I started to think about it was like you know two racing car drivers that were on the same team, you know, like sometimes McLaren and stuff the same team and we're both going around this track and then sometimes it's like, no, after you, no, after you, after you. And occasionally we literally physically crashed into each other because we were stood either back to back or next to each other in this kind of little space and it was really hot and We we're up there and we've been out there for hours and sometimes we wouldd be a bit buzzed and I' really really listen to each other and I'm trying to then I'll just jump up the octave and then hed plays something and I'd go, I'll get down there and literally we sometimes would bang into each other and I thought that was really cool. Had you had that level of chemistry before like that level of intense In a different way. Yeah, in the the but it was a different thing with all the bands that I've actually been a band member of I think I bring a certain kind of intensity and a sort of belief in that even without my guitar I think I bring a sort belief in the mission because I think that's very useful in a band. I mean, I'm all in I think people realize that now. it used to frustrate me when I was younger to when the pressures reported because you know, when I was young I used to be a little like, o it looks like I'm just bailing, I'm leaving this ban and I'm leaving that ban. But after all these years now, I think people realize that it's Anyone who's interested It's probably the reverse, you know, like when I If I join a band I'm really in in my family I mean my family moved to Portland or When I was in the cribs, you know, I got in the van and I You know, I played all the shows and you know, I don't I don't expect any other kind of separate treatment I really get in because it's the way I was when I was fifteen in bands. It's no different That is so cool. Was it because of that level of chemistry that you realized, well, I'm part of the band or was it already sort of decided? You're sort of in for the ride at this point? No, do you know what? The very first night we got together, Isaac and I wrote the song with that single dashboard became the single. And then I woke up really jetlgged at about whatever four o'clock in the morning 'ause I'd only got him from England the day before and I woke up and I kind of was like, whereere am I? Oh, I'm in a hotel in Portland. Did we just write like a really cool cool song with this guy In fact, we wrote two songs that night. We wrote another one called We've got Everything. That was me and him. Wow. And then frankly, because Moddy Smouse had paid for this English guitar player to come over for ten days, they had to kind of get to rehearsal for noon because you know, they' paid for my flight and it's kind of like a little bit like, all right everybody, you know You know, the ringers here or whatever we better get we better get here, right? But quite cleverly Isaac could have done it so a couple of members would join each day would come me and we feel each other out. so As the days went on with each couple of people that arrived And we would jam and get a new song and jam and get a new song Very quickly I was just like, I like these guys. they like me. There's such a positive feeling. everyone's so enthusiastic. Something's really happening here And a former manager and I said, Listen I'm supposed to be flying back on Wednesday or whatever. I'm going to stay I'm going to stay for a few weeks. and I fell in love with Portland The city this was two thousand five So to answer your question, By the time you get that sort of brotherhood going in a band and you're all really excited and also you're playing together these long hours. You know, six, seven hours and you've got a song and then you want to fix it the next day and and you're working on this thing. It was that simple. It just would have been really weird to bail ten days and out after building that Yeah, and then that turned into two weeks and then three weeks and then we're all talking excitedly about, oh man are you going gonna Would' it be great if you did some gigs? and I was like, wow, and And the key thing is I really start to I've done this with a few projects. I start to really care about the songs we're making. I really, really care about them, even if Iven written like in thever In on my relationship with Matt Johnson, I really believed in what he was doing and some songs you know, we'd make these backacking tracks and and he'd be like a soul searching about the lyrics and this isn't right and that isn't right. And I felt like I was going through all of that with him You know, and we did this album Duskin in ninety two But that's what I mean about being all in You know, people don't really know that about about me, you know, I'm twenty for seven if I'm in a band How does that translate to when you're leading your own group It's very different with my own band because It's a different scenario with my band. They're there. We've had a we've been together now ten years, the same lineup We all live in the same post code Pretty much but we look, we all li within ten miles of each other, which is kind of unusual for guys of our age. I've been in bands where people live in different cities and different countries That was a very deliberate thing. When I came back from Portland, I moved to Manchester, not because it's my hometown. I moved here because It's a really great place to run a group. and I knew these musicians and I wanted I wanted first of all I wanted to be able a callor rehearsal for tomorrow night and we all be able to get there. Someone doesn't have to get on a train or a plane, right? Why it's different in my band is I write songs. And then I bring them to the band And they they learn them and we learn them up. And I kind of run it and that's the way they like it. You know, I mean, we're really very much a group. but All the torturous G, the torturous process where the singer, which is me in this case, is soul searching about lyrics and all that My guys just lead me to it and they say, look Give me a call when you got the thing done man Bastards So in a way I suppose in my experience, my band When we first got together, the closest that I'd seen's a bit it's like I wasaw Beck expand, we kind of When we started, we kind of went That's kind of the yardstick for the kind of music, like a British version of that really You know what I mean? Like when you go to see Beck, it was like really tight And the tempos were usually the tempos were up And the dr drums are really snappy and He was a leader They were also a band in our book You knew the guy was going to have a good band I kind of decided with my band that that's the way I want it is to be really a bit like Becks band what makes Manchester a great place to sort of run a band out of Well, what Seattle was to LA in the nineties? Manchester is that to London You know what I mean? So o where. Being a musician is a little easier in Manchesters now like well books like Seattle is very There's a lot of money in it It's a second city. so So London If you're a musician, okay, and you've got to get rehearsal, it takes you twice the length of time to get to rehearsal space as it does in Manchester. People are usually I mean I love London and' there all the time, but musicians have to live quite a long way out of town because it's really expensive to have apartments there and all of this sort of stuff. Manchester's a little bit more is a little more like Seattle And you know, like Seattle, they had a big movement. It rains a lot like Seattle So it's an indoor culture. There's a whole load of things you know, just in that historically make Manchester really great to run to Well there's a history there as well. So for me in my generation I grew up knowing like, well the bususcocks did it. Okay I mean yeah. Bus cops I mean, they were just like gods to my generation Buscox proves that you didn't have to live in the Cital that you could live in the provinces and make great really cool music Be before that it was just it was all about London, London, London, all these bands. It was either London and LA really, London and LA. So you got a heritage and then So because Buscoox did it, Smiths were able to do it and the fall and then because a new orrder enjoy Division and because the Smiths enjoyivision, the newew Order did it, then Happy Bunders and Stone Roses knew they could do it and then because they could saw that you know, they did it Oasis orw that they could do it and so on. Youngsters know that you can be a Manchester band, you know? And so that goes back that goes right back to the seventies now with Buzzcos. So having that in the air and knowing that it's a musical town place to sort of gpe around when you're a fledging musician. But really It goes way back historically to like the eighteen sixties, eighteen seventies when Manchester was literally the industrial capital of the world and the industrial revolution and all the immigrants came really everywhere, Eastern Europe and the Caribbean, the West Indies and Ireland in my case and all of this business. So it's a real melting pot Manchester of working class immigrants and they all brought their own cultures and their own need for entertainment So a lot of comedians, Jewish comedians came out of here. a lot of people came from Eastern Europe. In my case You know, a lot of my family They moved over in the early sixties and they came over to work in construction and building the roads and all of this stuff, the Irish and My parents went to all the Irish clubs and they would see all the show bands and Me my sister go sometimes to these places in the afternoon where my dad was a booker for these bands. and so we grew up around your dad booked bands Yay, did you R of. L Yeah. That was in the seventies, me and my sister would be there. We'd be giving like soda And, um just loads and loads of sugar and I'd sit there and I'd watch these cabaret singers and they'd be their vocal their microphones would be going into a space echo or Tay Ecko Watkins Copycu. and to be an organ player and a drummer And if I was lucky to be a guitar player And if you're playing all these kind of sevventies songs, And I thought that was amazing. just watch these being assistter, watch these bands be like Holy shit, this is great. And sometimes I'd go, o they're not too good dad now, they're not too good. but just seeing the amplifiers and the electric guitars and all that, I would have been like nine or ten. I thought that was magic, yeah Yeah. your dad did instruct and then somehow got into booking b what was that? Well, that was to do with the Catholic That was to do with the Catholic church because he was numb so he's a working class Irish guys are saying he he laid pipes. He dug holes in the road but I'm very proud of him to do with the Catholic church, big Irish thing. They would have bands on on a Friday and a Saturday night and all these bands would go in audition in these bars or these pubs usually on a Sunday afternoon, and all of these Th used to call themselves agents, but are these people who could say, Hey, listen come and play at my social club for fifty pounds So they were go in audition e peopleople aren't with that, you know? It's so amazing. Yeah yeah. I mean, they weren't all that great, but to me it was magic It must have been an education unto itself, you know, in terms of how to be and on stage and you know, a hundred percent to be one hundred percent. what it was was the big thing for me was that I when I watched these bands set up their equipment When I was about seven or eight. at these parties. So this was a little early we used to have these bands play at Christen. Itd been, I don't reinforce a cultural stereotype, but there was a lot of christenings and a lot of weddings. And um My aunties and uncles used to have these bands come and play. But when I saw these adults setting up their equipment That was when it occurred to me that, oh, this is a job I don Uually nearly always guys. theseese guys are to see the same people, these same guys and they'd be bringing their amplifiers and someone setting the drum kit. I'd be like, Oh, as an adult You can do that. it's not just people on the television because on the television, I just see these bands magically appear. magic magic And looking great, you know, with the velvet suits on and all of this. And I'd actually see these men setting up their equipment and pulling these amplifiers and feeding back and testing and like Where do I sign up for that That looks like a great job. Yeah. And your parents must have been thrilled As much into music as they are that you sort of thinkin in that way, right Yeah, you know, I think a lot of people can probably relate to this. They were absolutely thrilled until at fifteen I decided or fourteen decided that. I was gonna to Go for it and not go to school right. So now that it's worked out and I've actually you's my day job, they're really, really proud. muchuch more than the fact that I'm famous, they're just really proud that I'm a full time guitar player sereriously and if I have a make records where there's not enough guitar in it I kind of get to hear about it R You're slaggking off. And yeah, but you know, mom, craft work. Now I said okay, I'm playing I'm playing the synth on this one. So they're proud of that. but you know, like a lot of teenagers, you know, I went through kind of a pretty rebellious rough patch. We went through kind of a bit of a you know, typical sort of rebellious kind of u They were worried that When I stoped going to school and was very obviously, you know, taking drugs and spending all my time with these reprobates, but it was all really wrapped up with the music as well. It wasn't just hedonistic stuff. I joined a band. The thing was I joined a band when I was fifteen who of adults who were very Dubious and My parents kind of said, well it's either that or you have to get out. so I just left home, you know, but just got it out. Yeah, and that was a bit contentious. and you know, so I was a little wild fifteen, sixteen, but what was your sister thinking? My sister was the mediator. She was the great mediator. She was only eleven months young with me. We were very tight still are, you know It's a funny one because yeah, they were proud of me being a musician, but I think when I actually was like, listen, I'm going to go for it and I'm going to go to London and I'm going even though you know, I had no money whatsoever and I'm going to join this band and these adults who They were very obviously kind of dangerous characters. You know, they're pretty druggy They sounded like a cross between a hawkwind And I guess the stoogees They called Sister Ray. I think their tracks up on YouTube's got some called Suicide because he' made a record. they sought me out at fifteen, right? And they're like, come and be in the band and I'm pretty sure I said, listen you are aware that I'm I am fifteen or fourteen even I think I didn't want it to a freak show and And they're like,y, listen now come on, come on, it'll be cool So I used to go to their rehearsal a couple of times a week and it was the red light area, reallyally kind of rough area Manchester a couple of nights a week. And to subsidize that I used to sell clothes and appals and wor in clothes shops and all. but anyway, I left I had to leave home. I had to leave home to do that because my parents didn't approve and that was a little bit of a kind of a rough bit of a look back now and it was a bit of a wild time for me. but London in seventy seven at fourteen fifteen. Yeah must have been that must have been crazy Well, it was amazing because I went to I went to the Marquis when I was fifteen to see a bank called Pearl Harbor in the explosions and they had the stray cats Wh else was in London at the time The clash was still around This is seventy eight seventy nine And I was really into this bank called the onlyly ones. You know, I some another girl another planet So I fell in love with this bound called the only ones and I followed them around quite a bit and that involved, you know, sleeping on train stations Main anti roogue It was my best pilot at the time. It was enlisted in the Smith. So we Yeah, I used to hang around clothes shops and that was all to me that was all part of the apprenticeship of being a musician because I heard loads of records. as I say I saw Brian Setzer When I was, I think fourteen I saw Patty Smith when I was fourteen so the cramps and To me, all of this stuff has made me what I am really Sen all those bands when I was really young What'd you think of Brian Setzer at the time I couldn't believe it, he was amazing And what were the stray cats doing over there D that a hit they they had to I think they I think they were England was where they took off I me and my pals were like, Listen, there's this crazy guitar player's rocker Billy band I saw them, I think there was you know, maybe about thirty people in the audience in this H that held like eight hundred people So all of that stuff, you know, so pererubu And I saw a whole load of bands I didn't care for because we used to sneak into all the venues. So Back on all of that and It can sound romantic and I can make it sound romantic and that's because it actually was I had no problem with walking back from a venue from got to see some band whether I liked them or not Walking back for miles with no, you know, train fare and It all feeling like it was part of an apprenticeship, you know? All part of the mission. Yeah How did you meet Andy Vork We went at the same school and he was You know it's like we guys in school. I saw a guy another guy with long hair, long scruffy hair and we were either going to be friends or we were going to fight. We were either like in competition or we were comrades And I think neither of us wanted to fight. You know, I had a button as you in America and a badge that said it was a Neil Youunng Tonights the Night. And he walked up to me and he went Tonight the night. And he did this really amazing Neil Young impression And I was just really impressed that he knew what Tonight's tonight was You do that kind of thing when you're a kid. It's so important I was like, yeah. I mean, I wasn't going to wear one that had harvest. It had to be, obviously, it had to be a really obscure badge. And he walked on to me and he just sang Tonightsonight and I thought, wow, this guy's cool. And then we just became friends for life. you know, it was beautiful. Yeahah. Did you see Neil on that tonight's the night tour in London No, no, that was I was too young for that. Yeah. You know the big amazing story about that about Tonight's the night, That t all So he came over to England, he played up Scara, which I might be wrong about, it might be the rainbow, But anyway, John Leidden told me this. so Heomes And the album hadn't been released yet and it's also a real down Heavy album, as you know, right Anyway, he comes out and he's got a scraggly beard and he's drinking lots of tequila and the stage and if you look on the inside of that record, the stage set is crazy. it's got platform boots hanging up and it's got like a It's got hook caps all over the stage and fake palm trees or So he comes out and he starts playing this album no one's ever heard So he plays tonight's tonight from start to finish It's not even been released yet and it's this real down alcohol kind of thing And he plays it and the audience is like, what the hell is this? And he's going down kind of badly. He goes off it gets call back on for the en call. And he says to the audience Now I'm going to play one that you've heard before Any place tonight tonight again That happened. I just saw Neil six nights ago. it was just like, this guy does not give a fuck. I love. know, I've never seen him play You've never seen Neil? Never, man. It's crazy. just for some reason or other, just never. It's worth it. It's just I've never seen someone so Single minded. So single minded. You know those D don't to generalize too much, but I've met a few sixties musicians which obvious, you know, very, very fortunate J a few a handful and they nearly to a man and woman. really care about playing. You know I mean, I might sound obvious, but the most important thing is if there's a guitar in a room they will pick it up and the play Ronny Woods like that. Donovan's like that You know, Paul McCarney's really like that, you know, like Those people haps soft to them, you know, I think they're really ironically it's kind of come around where some of those older generation musicians They go out And they appear to do it because they love it. you know, whether it's your thing or not, but you know, the Rod Stewarts and the Wh' and the Jaggers and Springsteens and all of those sort of people Johny Mitchell even now coming back, you know, you It's nice to see that those people who could be just sat on their boats or sat under the palm trees or spending all the time with their architects and all of that, they appear to be out there doing it because maybe they know something that we don't, which is, you know what? there really isn't anything better Yeah I've realized how super fortunate I am that I have people's ears You know, there's an audience as people who are interested in what I'm up to at the moment That's such a motivation you know, but I do like to think that This might be bullshit, but it's easy for me to say but that if I didn't, I'd still be playing every day practic in. You know, just for the love of it Just to try get try and get better and better. in some ways, you know, if that's all you got to do all day, you get pretty good. Yeah. But it's horses for horses, you know, I like what bands are I like what Indie Rock for one, I don't to pop myself in a box too much, but I like the area of music that I work in. I still feel like that there are surprises in that area of music. Obviously, you and I we can talk about go off on these different tangients, talk about all kinds of different music You know? My mission, I felt I think it almost kind of got doubled in a way I got a solo band together I felt like I had this freedom pulling all my influences that really goes back to People like Sarks It's an interesting thing, I think, because what you love is such a subjective thing, obviously And I think You get to a point in your life where you kind of go back to as an influence You really do draw on those things that were your first loves I love being in the modern world. I'm not particularly nostalgic person The area of music that I'm working in, guitar music, I guess melodic I suppose you know, I don't really use terms like art rock, but you know, I'm fine with being called an Iie musician. It all sounds like to me it's all what used to be called rock music anyway. For the longest time I used to call myself a pop musician for the longest time. and still until I started really recognizing that pop music is something very, very different now And I think that's post rave and to do with the technology and all this sort of stuff. I'm not going to make past judgment on it, but When I started out at eleven or twelve and studying these records T Rex, the sweet. sparks that luckily for me had amazing guitar playing on it and O those what in England we call Glamorck. In America, Glamorock was a different thing. It was a little bit I know, to do with sunset and the hairbands and all that. met all yeah. yeah. Yeah. But in England Glamorock was very definitely nineteen seventy two, seventy three, seventy four, David Bowie, you know, you the Ge Jenie and all that stuff, which you know, you know Those forty five' s were an amazing education for me And As I say, it's probably subjective because that was when this stuff really, really hit me. I still think that what I do is working within that area. where is For me, the best thing is it's concise It doesn't have to go on for seven or eight minutes unless I'm making a point and there's guitar hooks in it and the tempos are up. And yeah, it it makes you it gets a blood racing a little bit with some quite sort of interesting, clever, if possible lyrics that fit. That's the pop musician in you. that That's where that is located. And that's what probably I'd imagine like Probably how you fell in love with Chic in the seventies. Yeah. Yeah Well, I think we shk it was to do with the harmonic progressions. a lot I always say this book with so much is made with Nar Rogers. everyone obviously thinks even if they're not musicians, what they're thinking of is his right hand. Well, what I really fell in love with was his left hand, these beautiful McCoy Tyer. First time I ever met N Rogers, first question I asked him was, do you really like McCoy Tyer because the core progressions so beautiful, so pretty. So emotional. You know, I want your love and lost in music and o man So that's why I liked that stuff particularly. It wasn't just the groove, it was those beautiful harmonic changes So yeah, I'm a real melody freak. And I'll try and squeeze those hooks in so exciting kind of punch your guitar music wherever I can amazing. especially if it's my own stuff We're going take another quick break and then come back with the rest of my conversation with Johnny Marr. My kids favorite place in the entire world to be is New York City. They want to go any chance they get, even if it means just a company and me on a two night business trip. And this time they want to go to Central Park because we missed it last time. and they can't wait to have the bagels. They're like real New Yorkers. 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That's fanaticsfest dot com We're back with the rest of my conversation with Johnny Mar Where did the rif for sppirit power and soul Can you figure out how you arrive at that riff? Yeah What it did was mononths before When I was on the road We have this third album called Call the Cit I started to think The next single of the next album should be like an electro banger did conceptualize it hand on heart Now, hey, I wish I could do that with every track, but the Smiths used to do that sometimes we'd go because I was given a title Often, not always, but sometimes say sometometimes I was given a title like panic And I was like, What does that conjure up? O meet his murder? with meet' murder I set myself the task of writing a horror score for animals because I had the title So I quite enjoy. Hey listen, as I say, I wish you could do it more often, but I had the idea for Spirit powerower and soul months before and I went Oh man, this band The next album The first truck on it, it'd be really good if I can write an electro banger So I started with a drum machine I borrow a drum machine of Steve Morris from New Order, which actually I've got to give it him back And then Yeah. And I thought if I'm going to borrow if I'm going to borrow a drum machine Who better to brow one off than Steve Murray great So I got programming, even though I could have done it much quicker on the laptop, but that was at the point I wanted to do the process. and I was kind of going, all right, we'll do something that's like Cabaret Volta. So add the beat Anyway, I was playing along with that for like four days and I wrote this song that wasn't very good. And then I had to just kind of scrap it and apply myself again and I just wrote it and wrote it and wrote it and wrote it. I went in the studio ten or five or six for five days and I would sing melody and melody and this is too clever, this is too melodic, is I just knew what I wanted, but I knew what it would be when I found it. Hey, I'm talking a little bit like I've written a day in the life. I know but that's what I have to do. It's a great song, man. It's a great s. Thank you very much. Well, I appreciate that because I worked my ass off doing it I just kept writing these vocal melodies that were too melodic It became a real craft. The interesting thing about that song is that sometimes I have ideas and I've had these ideas from being a kid where I have an idea for what would be a good song away from the guitar and away from the studio and have it in my mind And then I set about trying to do it. And when it works out It's fantastic. It's a wild way to come come to a song like you're not even in the realm of music, you're away from it Yeah you would think that that would be the worst song potentially that it's like this thing where you're like conceptualizing it before you even have the chance to You know? Yeah. well I'm really glad it worked out. but I was determined u And to be fair, I think when youre talking about skill say One of the skills that I've learned that I didn't have years ago was I learn This Perseverance from Bernard Sumner from New Order, working with Bernard for nine years in electronic If he had an idea for a song believed in it He would not let that thing go away. He would keep coming back to it until he was Right So that was a skill that I've learned along the way from somebody else. It wasn't to do with you know, diatonic scales or to do with, you know, music theory was to do with application process. Yeah. And I've learned on that subject been I could go through all the people I've worked with I'll tell you what I've learnt from it Now think about it I might be getting a little bit sentimentally in my old age, but Isaac Brooke Brzy Hind. everyone, everyone really I'll learn something from all of them, you know. What about from Chrissy Chrissy, Eis I played with her last week at Glastonbury, you know and that was amazing rejoining the playing those songs after thirty years, you know, because I haven't played them since nineteen eighty, whatever. So Chrissy, well, I learn that, there's a lot When you walk on stage Even though I don an embarrass her, she might have even realizeed this book. When you walk on stage as the front man, giveive off the vibe to the rest of the band No matter what happens you've got this ick becausecause I was very young when I was working with Christ. I was twenty four and we were doing these We playays sometimes we played to one hundred thousand people opening for you too And certainly seventy thousand people most nights on the Joshua Tree tour. And I'm telling you, I was terrified When I walked behind her on stage, I was like It's cool. She's got this And I'll try and beat that for my band Yeah. And also, you know, things like in rehearsal, when you wear that one, two, three, four, when you start singing, you sing like you're on stage None of this like looking at your phone or looking up at the roof and or you know, being distracted went for those four minutes that your singing You really are in it Yeah, I learn a lot from Christy, ye. She's quite dedicated as a in her as her role as front front person. In a natural way in a natural way because a big part of her as well is that she's a punk rocker and she's not too referential. The business of being in a band She honours that She thinks being in a band is a special thing and especially her relationship with a guitar player. That goes right back to Jimmy Scott, who I was a big fan of when I was a kid which you can really hear in my plane, you know Yeah. Speaking of like, you know, you're sort of thinking of yourself as musician in a weird way on paper could look like a strange pairing. But I think having spoken to you now, it seems to make a ton of sense You and HanZimmer and Ferrel getting together Yeah about a decade ago to work on some that spideran stuff. but Yeah. you know well I've gott to say this is classic Hans because Hans is a real lateral thinker He really thinks outside of the box. and he genuinely has told me so many times now that I really think it's true. So one name for all first got in a room together, and we wrote two songs on that thing, just me and him Hs lo telling this story that he was watching the guy who wrote literally watching the guy who wrote Heaven knows I'm miserable Now writing a song with the guy who wrote happappy. He thought that was hilarious. And We got offered That movie, The Amazing Spider Man three. He and I got together and he was like, well what comes to mind? What you thinking it? I don't really know the franchise very much But I had this idea. I saw the opening scene, saw a real rough of it And it was New York and it was like there was a lot of action and everything. And I said, you know what? it should be like the who? I wasn't thinking classic rock but I was just thinking it should be like, won't get fooled again. It should be like, if you're asking me as a guitar player. powerower chords is Wha, this big kind of explosive thing. I never think in terms of metal, it's just not my bag. but yeah, if I think explosive, I think of like the who or whatever. and he really liked that idea. And then from that he jumped then to like having aband in a room. So straight away because Junky XL was He had a studio in the same building that we were in and he was brilliant. L, well, thisen, we'll get John Xell on base and then, um We had this idea about this explosive pot book. TansZen was like Who's the most melodic singet that you can think of? Wh's like who's amazing at coming up with melodies and he just Let's just ask for R I was like H. Well, it was like, well, this would be interesting I mean, I'm not I'm sure I'm not the first person to say this at all When Fll comes in the room, he's like, Where's the tune? Let me write a tune. He's amazing We were putting a song down. I'm sure you won't mind me telling this story I'd been for a room in the morning and I had this idea that we needed a romantic song. we need like the love the love song in this And I just happen to be out running in the morning and I heard this tune in my head. I was like, oh, that'll be good to I' get I was enthusiastic to get in the studio and put this tune down So I've got in the studio kind of early and We were in this big room and I started laying this down end of some of the musicians, couple of string players, piano, and I think I may hands was playing piano And P wasn't there and we started putting these running the chords down and I've got this tune and we'm putting it down and we're recording it And about the second time I get through this tune For our walks in And we're halfway through the tune and he's kind of trying to be quiet and not make a noise. And he's got he picks the microphone up and when we finish doing this quick run through got to start a third one for some technical reason. He's asking Steve Lippson to stop the track. I want to sing And Hans goes, C we just put the track down? He goes, I want to now my point in telling this story is that most musicians know that is the opposite of what happens. What usually happens is you have a tune and you put the tune down and you have to wait for days for the singer to sing Tro was like, pluck this in Plug this in, let me sing brilliant and he's in the control room. He's tapping on his phone all the time, tapping on his phone, Writing lyrics So My experience with Thlpha O on that movie with W he he was he's exactly what? I thought he was This music just oozes out of the guy I love it. Yeah. so that was this funny thing. But when when I've been asked a couple of times about collaboration, right? I use that That example of writing with forl as an illustrationist to What happens in the collaborative process? because On the face of it What I say is it's like We got two musicians working together On the face of it look, I'm an indie rock musician from Manchester in the eighties And then Ferrell is a R and B You know, hip hop Musician from America I would say it's a bit like You get in a rowboat and the two is are ring in the same direction and the horizon is the speakers. I think the point is is that music and collaboration and when you're trying to create something with someone, even if you don't know them very well, it transcends your Being from different backgrounds completely transcends it. Yeah Music's amazing for that and collaboration is amazing. You're both trying to just come up with a really good midle aid Because of that because people on the outside will go, Ohh yeah, you have to check your egos out the door or Well, I mean, that's a given because. People who are serious They just want to make something great It's not even a question of u egos You know, I mean, the people the people I've worked with the greats You know, they I'm sure they have an ego when they're getting out on stage, but When it comes down to work, they know, you know, you've got to put the hours in. Billy Allish is like that Alicia Keys is like that. just real hard working rolling the sleeves up and putting the hours in, you know, are talking about greats who put in the work. What was it like observing or being a part of the Joshua treeour, like seeing you two in that moment close if you were Well The amazing thing was u I told Edge this actually that so When I joined that talk because the pretendnder's been doing it for a while and then the guitar player quit and then I joined on there At that point Bonner was doing this thing where is in front of whatever seventy eighty thousand people and they've got this material that is just really sounding good in those stadiums Don't forget that it's new music then where the streets have no name and still haven't found what I'm looking for. They were new songs that people were just hearing on the radio, right? So it was like, whoa This is a pretty good place to be. I was sood at the side of the stage going, Wow, when are you hear that When youre where the streets have non E which I think they used to start with you go. I think this song's going to stick around for a while So there was a vibe And they come on and Bonner was doing this thing where Midway through the set or whatever, he would climb up on the PA and then he would climb on whatever on some lighting truss or whatever. and he was hanging down off doing that thing and he'd be hanging down if it And u You know, and Chry said to me, God, look at that, you know, he's kind of laughing about it. What is he think he's doing And I said to her, inocacy, I saw him do that in front of about forty people in a little room in Manchester when they first came at Manchester in nineteen eighty, I want to say Me and my pals went down. we'd heard about ' them on the John Peel show And I thought, that's really cool because He was doing it back then And also I guess the u The music, I think I started to see that. Well, first off, you've got to have a real got a lot of energy to be the head of, you know, that kind of organization. with like, you know, fifteen trucks and such a big, big organization. You know, that takes a lot out of you during the day. Forget even the shows. just being the center of all of that operation. which you know, made me realize that kind of okay with being what I am, you know, but because You know, I don't like a lot of fuss So I really admired that. but How masterful it was that the tunes have to be really If you listen to those that kind of music which I guess was part of what defined now stadady music. It's very simple. But it's in I remember those those nights has been Free, there's a lot of emotion in that music Simple doesn't necessarily mean u like vacuous. Yeah, it's good Yeah I't found what I'm looking for is such as don do do go do do and the singing man So yeah, that was really that that was very, very cool. And again, you know, the chemistry of a band If ever, you know, you want to talk about chemistry You know, look at those guys The kind of really archetypal You know the edges are really archetypal. his role in the band, you know, he's kind of artty and he's got an imagination and he he sort of paints pictures and what his guitars, sound and all of that. and A really holds it down Bono's flamboyant on stage and off kind of concepts guy and Larry's the guy who kind of really is He's formed the whole thing and he's like the engine in a way So u It comes back to that thing if you are what you play When I think about the edge, I also start to think about like Johnny Greenwood Oh, yeah. I mean, he seems to me like you also where it's like It's sort of just down to like like it doesn't matter how complicated it sounds. It's just like what fits this track, you know? and Is adventurous similar to that as well. The difference between me andohnny though, is that he's been able to grow with the same musicians over a long period of time. Yeah you know, I mean, because again they are another band You know, with amazing chemistry You know, they've all become who they are. I mean, I know now, you know, they've got to a place where they're all doing their own projects and everything Johnny's been in a place where He's been able to grow with Phil Selway playing behind him and with Tom next to him. The difference with me is that I've had I've done that different bands. Yeah. I think that's a big difference between me and Johnny. You know, in a way if you like Jony's Johnny's family stayed together a long time. Yeah. Whereas my family was the family I was known for was very short lived You know, the Smiths whichich is fine. No, it happens with a lot. More bands in than the ones that stay together for forty years. Think about the Beatles too, the Beatles. Beatles short lived, but a lot of punch in their time and it's it's. I mean, you look at the work you guys did In the short amount of time, it's like damn it's a lot it's a lot of work. Yeah, yeah, it felt like that Yeah I'm very extremely proud of it But I think Johnnys, as well as being supremely talented, I think he's been in a place where he can really He occupies his place in that band and has done for A long time now And he's, you know, that band that they've all they've all sort of grown around each other. You know what I mean? Yeah You pick any album like Kid A or that, you know, Amnesiac, that period. I really like him rainbows as well. And they've all kind of evolved together So I think that's really that's really suited him as a musician. I think It always suited my personality to kind of flit around really? You know, it doesn't come as any surprise to me whatsoever that I've been in loads of different braands. Go back to the beginning of our conversation, I love that it's something you've done. and I wish you, I don't know. it's like, you know, if I had my brothers, my personal taste taken into consideration. If I had my brothers, I would have that happen more often. likeike I love different like going back to jazz. like I love it's like I love the fact that I can pull up and be like, o, I want to hear Oh, I can hear Oscar Peterson play with Baker on this one or I can hear I want to hear Wayne Shorter play with, you know, Jimmy Cobb instead of whatatever you know. I just want to hear what the different combinations of formations sound like. and that's what's cool about