Perseverance and the Vancouver Scene

Pushkin The new pornographers have never been easy to pin down Since forming in Vancouver in the late nineties, the band became one of the defining acts of the Canadian Indie Rock explosion. They're part of a scene that also produced Nicko Case, Destroyer, and a generation of artists who seemed to operate entirely outside the commercial mainstream Co foundounders Carl Newman and Katherine Calder have spent more than two decades making records that are densely layered, relentlessly melodic, and somehow both euphoric and melancholic at the same time Their latest album, The Fer Sight of draws on a different kind of raw material Part of it came from a friend's terminal illness in the wight of watching someone you love reckon with time running out. Part of it came from something more unexpected The last remaining payphone in New York City, which became a kind of anchor image for the record, a physical object standing in for everything we hold on to after it stops being useful O today's episode, Bruce Heedlam sits down with Carl Newman and Katherine Calder to talk about what their new album came from, what it's like to make something beautiful out of grief. and how the Canadian music scene that shaped them still runs through everything they do This is Broken Record. Real Musicians Real Conversations This is an IiHart podcast Guaranteed human I just got back from an amazing family vacation in Northern California It was the perfect reset for our busy lives Now if you're planning any upcoming trips, you could be listing your space on Airbnb. It's a smart, practical way to make use of your place while you're away and earn some extra cash at the same time And with the cohost network, you could hire a local cohost to handle everything like managing reservations, guest communication and even styling your space. Find a co host at airbnb d. com slash host Need to pay a friend back for festival tickets or a morning coffee run? AppleCash makes it simple. Just tap plus in the messages app to find Apple Cash. No need to jump between apps or search for usernames. It's a private and secure way to send money. Send cash right in the chat with AppleCash. AppleCash services are provided by green. bank member FIC Terms apply The future won't wait And neither should you. That's why American Public University offers master's programs designed for momentum Affordable High quality and flexible. Moving forward career relevant programs in business, healthcare, education, IT, and more You can gain skills You can use right away and the confidence powerower your next move American Public University made for what's next Learn more at apu. aPS EDU. Here'sruce Hlan with Carl Newman and Catherine Calder Head over to YouTube d. com slash broken record podcast if you want to see the video So tell me First of all, about the name of the new album and explain that to me, the former site of Well this is I have a great an I have a great answer. It's kind of a long answer living in upstate New York. Um, I would drive past the reservoirs of, you know, which is where New York City water comes from and Threat and reservoir The nearby the one near us, the Ashokan reseservoir has a sign next to it that says, the former site of West Hurley And when I saw that sign, I was kind of fascinated, like what happened to West Hurley? And I started looking into the history And around like nineteen oh five, New York decided You know, we need these areas for the reservoir. so they They got towns to just uproot and leave And they said, we'll buy your property, but if you won't sell it to us, well we're going to take it anyway. So you might as well sell it to us So parts of the towns just got raised and then anything they wanted to save, they put the cars on wagons or sorry the buildings on wagons and took them away And so u I was I was fascinated by the idea and I wrote the song, the former Sight of about that which is, you know, about a church about a preacher who decides He's going to stay with the church. He's like, I'm just going And the water's rising around him and he's sitting on the roof and he's about to die because It's going to be flooded U'm And I thought that was an interesting a little story to try and tell And u I also I also thought like with all the changes the bands have gone has gone through, through the years call our record the former site of. and on the record it basically reads us the former site of the new pornographers. I thought I thought it was a kind of you know, It was a slight slightly slightly ironic, but an element of truth there. about, you know, various things that have changed through the years, good and bad And and also just my urge to always want to change You know, like I want I want the pornographers to be something different Um but that the weird PS to that story that is we just played WDST, a radio station outside of Woodstock And it's in a church And I found out right before we started playing that It was a church had actually been moved from West Hurley. Oh wow. So it was essentially we were playing We're playing this song about the church in West Hurley inside that actual church. It used to be in West Hurley, which I thought was kind of mind blowing Yeah. For people like me who bought your first alb when it came out and been following you along, tell me What's changed in your songwriting between Those early days and this new album Um, Well, I mean, I know what's changed in my songwriting in the last few years. I think I decided to write Ah very narrative songs on this album or a lot a lot more narrative songs, songs that were clear Not like I'm trying to write Glory Days by Springsteeen or anything, but I just wanted songs that were a little clearr. I think I think if I If I was trying to write like anyone, I'd say Leonard Cohen You know, like the pictures he paints and like Suzanne, our Sisters of Mercy. , which is a kind of thing to shoot for, but you gott to shoot for something high And um So that's different to me and And also I'm I know how to I never used to know anything about engineering I used to just stand behind John Collins or a base player and say do this, do this. Can you make it do this? And And now I can do a lot of that stuff on my own, which I love because it means like I can you know, any given day, I can just go to my studio space just work for a couple hours and engineer and I like I can I can do everything now U except play instruments well It's rock and roll music, so I can get away with not doing that. And plus I have other people that can play instruments well That's interesting because this album to me was The writing felt different, notot in every song, but oh, to me, it feels very different. Yeah, but you know the Think of your songs, you know, particularly on your big albs like Brill brruisers or Morse code. They're very linear songs. They start with The big hook, they go to know, verse chorus, middle eight, they're often quite different. This one felt like it was built differently. like it was built in laayers almost Um, yeah, I think that. I mean, I Like I don' I wouldn't call it a concept album, but I think I I wanted it to all fit together U I wanted it to feel. I want it to have a similar feel I wanted it lyrically you have a similar feel. I mean, even to the extent that the final song the former site of like name checks from the previous songs. I always wanted to have You know, I think I've said to people I wanted it to feel a little bit like a little book of short stories, but that It feels like a slightly pretentious thing to say But that's I guess you gotta Yeah shoot for maximum You know, pretense It's a very pretentious thing to say. Y. That's what makes it work. Yes. Well some of these songs reminded me of particular short stories Uh, the, um And I want to get the title right, and I always write these things down. Wish you could see me, I'm killing it. Tell me about that song Um I mean, that one is essentially just something very real that happened that I think I just fictionalized slightly And it was both of my parents have passed away and a few years ago I was I was at the flower store near the with a graveyard, the cemetery And Buying flowers and I got is really nice bouquet for my mom. and then I was looking for my dad and I started thinking like he didn't care about flowers You know, so I bought him I bought him like, flowers and weren't quite as nice as my mom's because I just thought like He doesn't care. likeike my dad would be like, No what are you spending flowers? know why would you spend forty dollars getting me flowers? get those ones that are on sale. and And then that just made it just made me think about how we talk I guess how we talk to the dead, which is even a line one of the last lines in the former site of M We find our own ways to talk to the dead And then From there, I started thinking about You know, it was a song, it was a song about that But then it became more about this person who who has spent so long buying flowers for his parents graves that he knows a lot about flowers now. And he can and he can tell you and he can tell you about flower arranging So there is there's something kind of Darkly Darkly comic in there, but it's also meant to be kindind of a knife to the gut. You know, it's u it's one of the few songs I think I've ever written. I almost like made myself cry writing it Um And and it's Also the line like I wish you could see me. I'm killing it is a little like Like I'm not exactly sure what I meant, you know? likeike, um It means both I wish you could see everything I've done, but it also It also means Um, I'm kind of You know, I don't think I'm killing it Mm. I can use some help Um But yeah, what came across to me was that narrator felt a little foolish, a little Overwhelmed Yeah, yeah. I think I think I think I think there's that. Yeah, that was a yeah, that I felt very happy about that that song. You know what it reminded me of? Now that I know the origin of the song it has nothing to do with it. The James Joyce story Araby. Do you know that story? No, no Oh it's in Dubliners It's a kid who goes to a little fair to buy a present for this girl he likves. And he's overwhelmed. It's getting dark, The fair is closing and he can't buy anything and he just u is this terrible line at the end when he feels like I think a creature a creature derided by vanity, I think, is the line. And just kind of that sense of being a little overwhelmed that. think think I think there is that I think there is that element of it. Yeah, because that ultimately I didn't I don't know anything about flowers. you know, but But I guess this character I was trying to write kind of kind of does, u Did riting moreore narratively did that change the melody writing at all It did. We were just talking about that last night. I think I just became less precious about melody, where like I would write a melody and then When the melody met the when the melody met the lyrics and when they both met performance. Like, whatever I had to change to make it feel better, I would Is that different for you? Be before you came in with the video? Yeah, I think I think I used to think like this is This is the melody I wrote and sometimes it'd be like, it's hard to sing. It's like, well You know, I guess I will go into falsetto and sing it, you know? likeike Like I would bend around whatever the melody was on this one and maybe on the last one as well Um And then the one before that. I think I think about a few years ago, I started thinking change the melody and just sing what feels good. The first song I remember doing that on was a song called U Falling down the stairs of your smile. from North Cota brake lights. I remember I wasn't sure about it And then I just I just I just sang it again. I just wanted to find it Yeah becauseuse I remember I wanted to drop it. It was in her her husband, Colin mixed it and I remember saying like, this isn't working on a drop and him turning around, going, this is the best song in the record. And I said, okay, well I guess I should finish it. And Yeah, and I just I just sang it until I found something that felt good singing. And I thought and then that really worked. it became like the single and I think it was the best song in the record. And And I think I carried that in the continue as a guest and on this record, I mean, there's an infinite amount of melodies. I mean, it's nice It's maddening It's just There's so many melodies. Like why not change the melody? It's like before were you We were a writer who just cut the harmony down for the song and then pull the melody out of that Um No. I think I usually started with a melody Really? Yeah, you do L like chords, chords in a melody. O Or sometimes I'll just kind of sing something just like into my into my phone, into my voice notes and And then I'd go and play the chords, go what are the chords of this Sometimes I hate to find out what the chords are. sometometimes it ruins it Really? Sometimes you think you've come up with something really interesting. It's like, oh, the chords are G, C and D That's so boring But then it's amazing when you realize, oh yeah, the chords are C minor and A minor. That's weird. You know, this album also felt a little fewer chords in this cell, mayaybe a little less harmonically complex than some of your earlier albums. Yeah, I think that Although there's still when I when I play the songs now, there's more chords that I think there are but you know, Like for us, like a song that doesn't have very many chords is six chords. You know, but you know Lou Reed said any more than two chords is jazz I'm so I'm u I think another thing I've done and tried to do in the last decade was just see how much you can move around. with notot very many chords because You know just like There are infinite amounts of melodies. There are kind of infinite pllaces you can go within two chords Like sometimes I just like to cycle back and forth between like G and A, just two chords that are just a step apart And there's so much you can do You know, you can write You can write a hundred songs that are different that are just cycling back and forth between A and G. There's so many things you can change that tempo is the way it's syncopated, the melody, just the vibe Um It's great to hear you say that because I think a lot of musicians fear the opposite that They only know a few chords. There are only twelve notes U Maybe it's all been done Whoa. I That really annoys me. No, I think it's just laziness You know, I think if you can't figure out how to do it and you don't want to figure out how to do it, I don't know what to tell you. You know, Do you work hard at songw writing Is something you do every day? Yeah I do. I try to. I mean, I feel like it's part of like I think it's part of like you know, mental health process, you know, like I think I think it's good just to, um, to use your brain You know, like a In some ways, it doesn't feel that dissimilar to going on a New York Times spepelling bee You know, like like Likem I'm trying to find an answer. You know, like I've But it's a puz It's a puzzle I invented. You know it's an amorphous puzzle that I invented. and I'm like, how do you solve this puzzle? Right like I know there's an answer. Yeah. By the way, the panagram today is befoulled. just want you to know. Oh I know that. I've already done it. Okay. well, there you go. genenius, by the way. Not Queen be, but it was a pretty easy one today. Yeah That wasn't so hard We'll be back with more from the new pornographers after the break I just got back from an amazing family vacation in Northern California After years of trips to large cities, my wife and I took off north with the kids to Marin, just north of San Francisco where we spent all of our time in Redwood Forest hiking places like Bear Valley, down to Stinon Beach It was the perfect reset for our busy lives. Plus, the drive was long and car time with the kids always makes for magical moments Trips like that are truly unforgettable, and what makes it even better is booking your stays on Airbnb Now if you're planning any upcoming trips, you could be listing your space on Airbnb It's a smart, practical way to make use of your place while you're away and earn some extra cash at the same time. And with the cohost network, you could hire a local cohost to handle everything like creating your listing, managing reservations, guest communication, on site support, and even styling your space. So while you're making your own memories, your home can be helping another family make theirs Find a co host at airbnb. com slash host. You know that awkward feeling when you have to ask a friend to pay you back for a dinner or a night out? AppleCash makes it so much easier. Everything happens right where you're already talking in the messages app. I just tap plus to find Apple Cash and settle up with a text. And once you're settled up, you can spend the money you receive anywhere Apple Pay is accepted Plus, it's private and secure, with every one of your transactions protected by face ID, touch ID, or passcode Whether it's splitting dinner or paying someone back for a trip, it's just so easy to use AppleCashe. AppleCash services are provided by Greenot Bank, member FDIC, Terms Apply The future won't wait. And neither should you. That's why American Public University offers master's programs designed for momentum Affordable High quality and flexible So you keep moving forward career relevant programs in business, healthcare, education, IT, and more You can gain skills, you can use right away and the confidence ower your next move American Public University madeade for what's next. Learn more at apu. aus . edu So Catherine, when you saw these songs because you present them to the band, right? Yeah. Yeah. it all together But what did you think? What was your first reaction? and What did you think you could add? know. I just, uh I I guess I approach these songs when Carl sends them to me with a kind of a sense of I'll just do what comes to me and I'll send it back. We'll see how it goes Kowing that knowing that, you know, think a lot of things are going to change between the time I've listened to that version of the song and the final version because I've been in a band with Carl for over twenty years now Yeah. And I know the process and the process itself hasn't changed that much No Like over the, you know, except from now, you know, I'm more able to do things from my own house, which is awesome because it means I have More. personal control over what I'm doing. and my knowledge has increased. I can to be able to do that kind of like you were just saying You can record on your own and now so can I. And that wasn't the case when I first joined the band. So Um, so that personersonally has changed, but yeah, I just expect unexpected twists and turns and adjust accordingly And And I love it. And it usually comes Like I think Catherine and Todd Fancy and John Collins I mean, I think they all kind of like know how I work or maybe not how I want to work, but just how I'm doomed to work And they will always send me like a bunch of ideas for a song like Fancy never gives me a full take Like he will play a cool guitar part and it only it's only in the first forty five seconds because I think he knows like Like what's the point? Like Like if if I If I find something that he did that I totally love, I will go back and go, can you do take of that and usually I will like paste it up And And I'll do that with something Catherine plays or John plays. I'll just this is cool. And sometimes it It sometimes it changes the song. Sometimes I'll go like, that's the only good thing keyboard thing Catherine did is the only good thing in the song. You know, I'll be like, the keyboard. you got So we got the keyboard and the beat and you know, it's just You know,, yeah, they're just You know, they're like too old What was the song on this album that underwent the biggest transformation once people got their parts back to you I cannot remember It's it's I think it's always It's Like, and it's It goes on for so long and I'm always like working on things and you know, they don't remember. You know, I'm sure. Maybe spooky action Bookie action went Yeah, that one through a big transformation actually. that one u That one definitely did Yes. G Glad you cut that one I I remember that that one felt like it was like it was hard to get It like it was a lot of things happening, but it was hard to to make it smooth and and interesting. And sometimes you get to a point where you have too many ideas. At the end of an album, I feel like there's a lot of muting You're taking things out. Yeah Um D you do that more now? This album felt a little airer, a little less Yeah, yeah. Yeah, a little less heavy complicated than some of your other records Yeah, but but I think ironically, I think that kind of makes it a little more, a little more complicated, you know, I think it's it's just less less noisy Well one thing I One thing I've thought about in the last few years, which might be the most obvious thing in the world, but I just learned it or I don't know if it's something I can say I learned, but it's a theory I have and it is that If something cannot be the loudest thing in the mix It shouldn't be in there. Wow. Like like because so many times through the years has been like Oh, this part is cool, but Oh, it's not it's too loud. you know, like pull that down and you know, and you're burying things and I just thought No if If it can't be the loudest thing, it shouldn't be there. you know, if if if something Yeah, if something's going to bother you if it's too loud and its to me, it seems screamingly obvious now. like yeah, it probably shouldn't be in the mix And that's helpful. to me because when you listen to an album on different stereos, it always sounds different Or if you listen to like the album playing in the next room, it sounds different. So on this record, I feel like I've eliminated that because now I listen to it and I go, well, that sounds louder and that sounds quieter, but who cares Do you ever experienced someone's playing a song in another room and you can't tell what the song is? But it's it sounds really cool. And then when you hear it it's almost a little bit of a disappointment. wasn't that how you know invented ambient music Oh, I don't know. Yeah, apparently he was in like a a hospital or something and he just heard some like music playing like far in the distance and he couldn't tell what it was. and he just thought That was a cool effect. Right That's That's how you invent a genre 's just a bunch of music you can barely hear. and it's like what if all the music was meant to be barely heard? You mentioned spooky action. Tell me about that. very vivid Narrative. Well, that's good. That's the one song my wife said she couldn't figure out what was going on Um, Well, I was reading about I was reading about a couple of things. I was reading about quantum entanglement and Einstein said that quantum entanglement was spooky action at a distance which I thought was an interesting turn of phrase. And then Unrelated to that, I was reading an article about the Cassini Higgins prorobe, which you know, circling Saturn for thirteen years and taking pictures of it and that's how we know so much about everything that's going on around there. And then at the end of it It, you know immolated itself. and they flew it into Saturn and it burned. And the idea was that It would be a song about like the last moments of the Cassini Hygins probe where for some reason it's sentient, I guess just artistic license. But the idea of like what what's it thinking right before it dies And I thought the last thing you would think. be like Oh, this is beautiful you know, just looking looking at everything around it That's basically the little snapshot. I wanted it to be Mhm that one Why is that such a sad thing The idea of this space proro, it's done all its work and then just like it heads into the planet to burn up. I find it's just an incredibly sad image. Really? I mean, I guess it kind of is, but I also I mean, there's not much of it There's not much of it in the song onlyn one line, but the subtext in my brain was that u quQuantum entanglement, the idea that You're connected with something And you're never you're always connected with it. There could be billions of miles between you, but you're still connected to it. Is it kind of like a beautiful idea? and it made me think of like the idea of heaven of a people we've lost. how we're always connected. And so U But there's a line in the song where it's like likeike a I guess it's the part in the song where it flies into Saturn and it was like a series of nail biting dives and I'm done, I'm on the cloud. and the with the double meaning being that All the information inside Casini Hyins is on the cloud. L like the machine is gone, but everything it learned is you know, on the literal cloud And then but then the idea of like the cloud like heaven So, um So it's kind of a I think it's kind of a spiritual song. And I think the The line about like, have you seen it the way it's meant to be seen is supposed to be a very Hopeful. line. I think it's justust a very another way of saying stop and smell the roses The Casini Hagins probe isn't sad to die You know, it's just Look at how beautiful this is. L I'm gonna go now which seems like a You know That's how I'd like to depart this Eth, I think What a beautiful place. See you later McCran In both the cases of the songs we've talked about, you've come up with an initial idea from the sign, from this from reading Einstein, where a lot of people get their lyrics, by the way Einstein Well, I wasn't reading Einstein. It was it was like an article somewhere. You know, I'm sure I clicked on it. It was probably like a smart person clickbait..ooky action. What's this? Yeah ate Oh no, no, I have my email address. Curse them. Yeah. I been all these Democrats asking me for money then But then you do a lot of research because you mention all the stars, you mention the things that it would have seen Yeah. And in the other case, you You looked at what those communities would have been like and you describe Yeah, which was new to me. Is that new to you? Yeah Yeah. I've never done I've never done research likeike in the in the songs. Like, yeah, I would just try and find like You know, because I have a vague idea of like, , you know, the weird story I'm trying to tell. But then I'm I'm like, I I need some details to make this. You know just to surround it with. And then in spooky action, I looked up like Oh, and some of it was just Youd just try and find things that sounded cool like the arc of Dafness Cool Keler's edge. That's cool. The Lone propeller. It's like, what's the lone propeller? Oh, it's it was made by mooonlits And it's like, oh, that's cool Um, That should be its own song, The Lone Propeller. That's a great title. Yeah Well I guess it can be Next time. I I'm allowed to do that, but I doubt I will. I think I've exhausted everything I have to say on the matter with the eighty words I wrote, you know So tell me about U Ballot of the last pay phone. Yeah, that was u Yeah, that was another one. I was just I was reading about, um last pay phone in New York City and I thought Um, Did you go see it? You can see it at the Museum of New York? Yes, exactly. I hope they cleaned it up, because Yeah, I remember those on pay phones. I'm sure I'm sure they did. Um Um Again, I was talking about this last night. There was this was even though I'm I'm not a big Rven carver Raymond carver expert I read this little five page short story called Fat It was about this waitress in bed at night with her boyfriend. and she's talking about this overweight man she served and she can't And she, you know, she can't put it into words you know what fascinated her about him. And she doesn't even know why she's talking about him. And I think her boyfriend is like, what are you talking about And but you're reading it and you know like, oh, she relates to this man somehow. There there's something in him that she sees in herself, but she can't figure it out. So I was thinking of that and And instead of that, it was this guy who goes to see the last payphone in the museum of the City of New York and he's looking at it and he can't quite figure out why he's so fascinated by the last payphone, but But to me, it seems very obvious because, you know the last payphone got behind, you know, the last It used to be important. It used to be a big part of the world and then Now it's in a museum. now it's just like a relic And I thought to me, it seems pretty easy why a person might M person not so different from the satellite story though Yeah, yeah. I mean, they're they're they're all meant to be like very veryer similar. I mean, like like like to me, like, I wanted them all to be kind of stories about loss and acceptance And I I like When you start with loss, yeah, it makes it seem like this' very sad But, um Was that something that emerged from the stories or something when you sat down You wrote loss at the top of the paper and said, No, no ideas. I think just I think it just emerged. Why do you think it emerged now I don't No. I mean, maybe it's just maybe it's just like getting getting older, like just just just trying just trying to figure out life Um It's just, but it really was just wasn't really conscious. I mean What I was consciously trying to write only came together as it took form on its own And I began I began to see that there was there was a connection between the things I was writing ike I had to go back myself. But I mean, I think that's Also I mean that's right struggle with. I mean, having struggled with like mental health I I think that those are those are strong feelings, like trying to Um, you know, trying to come out the other side. uh trying trying to be happy, you know, trying to figure out what can I do to be happy And one of the things you have to do to be happy, I think is just like ride with all the loss and tragedy in your life You know, um Yeah, just, um likeike a the one side The song in the record that is the most absolutely autob biographical it's called like Bonus My ties. is about my friend Cheryl who died of cancer And it was about the first time I saw her And I was so shocked that um see it already seemingly accepted Like she had spent she had spent months dealing with the fact that she was going to die soon And I was talking to her and she was very And she was very very like matter of fact about like how like, oh, I'm worried about I'm worried about Warren. She was worried about her husband, who's like an old old friend of mine And like what's what's, you know, how's he gonna deal with me dying and see a They always made drinks. They were the couple that would always have like different drinks and came over and that night they made my ties and I just thought like you're going through this hell in your life, but you're still making my ties for your friends and they're coming over and you know, and I think we both got a my tie and she said, u You know, like, I should have I should have died four months ago. Everybody thought I was going to die four months ago. It was so bad And You know, this is my bonus time on Earth. And so like this is a bonus my tie. and every' going, Cheers, you know, drinking are my ties And um But I just thought how like What it's It's sad But there was a kind of There's kind of Beauty to how people face the inevitable. You know, it's like everybody's everybody's going to die and you can put your head in the sand and say, no, not me I'm, you know, I'm going to be like some comediian said, I'm going to be immortal and so far so good, you know? Yeah. Um, So I think I think that's a I think that's in a I think there is something Yeah, beautiful about figuring out how to like You know, how to how do it end? How How how how to deal with things ending Well, nice break and we'll be back with the new pornographers. I just got back from an amazing family vacation in Northern California After years of trips to large cities, my wife and I took off north with the kids to Marin, just north of San Francisco where we spent all of our time in Redwood Forest hiking places like Bear Valley, down to Stinon Beach It was the perfect reset for our busy lives. Plus, the drive was long and car time with the kids always makes for magical moments Trips like that are truly unforgettable, and what makes it even better is booking your stays on Airbnb Now if you're planning any upcoming trips, you could be listing your space on Airbnb It's a smart, practical way to make use of your place while you're away. and earn some extra cash at the same time. And with the cohost network, you could hire a local cohost to handle everything like creating your listing, managing reservations, guest communication, on site support, and even styling your space. So while you're making your own memories, your home can be helping another family make theirs Find a co host at airbnb d. com slash host The future won't wait And neither should you. 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All OdDU software is connected on a single affordable platform Save money without missing out on the features you need Odu has no hidden costs and no limit on features or data Odu has over sixty apps available for any needs your business might have, all at no additional charge Everything from websites to sales to inventory to accounting all linked and talking to each other Check out Odu at odoo. com That's OD O O You know, the songs, particularly spooky action Pay phone song. They remind me You always have a lot of technology in your songs. do? Well, you're like twin cinemas, which is When I was a kid, I remember the first time there wass a twin cinema and nobody could You can go and choose what movie you could see. That seem incredible. Of course, they were always showing the same one on both screens when you got there. Exactly. brake lights, Things like that. and they're sort of They' kind of old fashioned technology. that's sort of sort of like about it in your songs Yeah, I mean, I think can I can see that. Yeah. And it makes me think, you know, it almost reminds me of The Kinks. You know how the Kinks were like a modern band, but they always seemed to be singing about things that were like thirty or forty years old. Yeah, yeah. Yeah To me, I always get that sense with new pornographers that like This is very up to date bann, but're The sense of loss over these kind of old technologies fading away. I always got that from your music Yeah, I mean, I can see that. Yeah, like even though it's incredibly obtuse obscure, I think the song electric version is kind of about that, although I couldn't even tell you the lyrics are right now and Yeah, I mean, I don't know I don't know why that is. I mean, I do think I come come from a kind of culturally, I feel like I Being a kid in the seventies, I remember Watching the reruns were from the fifties M. So I had like one culturally, I had like one foot in this weird black and white past where I was watching I love Lucy in the Andy Griffith showh and things like that And u And also my parents were like I was I was the youngest of five kids. So it was like The uh My parents were like We're from a generation like basically before rock and roll. you know, like ike I think my mom was a young mother, you know, I think she had a baby when Eldvis showed up You know, she might have had a newborn. So like they were So there was this whole like You know there was like my life, but like my parents like to me, seem to come from a distant past Okay, what record albums did you have at home growing up You mean like that I bought or no No no, you bought. I'm always I'm always fascinated that people because Well, they like they like country music. Oh, really? Okay Most people I know like they'd have like the sound of music soundtrack. No, they were not at all. No. it was country music. I remember my mom liked Charlie Pride and I still love those Charlie Pride records Um she likek really liked Freddie Fender You know, she liked, uh She just liked country music. I remember we had a Kel country music record that I absolutely loved Um, you know, I had like You know I beg your pardon. I never promised you a rose Garden. Yeah. Like I still love that that met that country pololitan is still my favorite Uh country music, like Charlie Rich. What was the big Charlie Rich hit? Hey, did you happen to see the most beautiful girl U I love that. U behind closed doors, wasn't that one of h? Yeah, yeah ye. We had a best of Waylon Jennings, R I remember Um, which I didn't know was outlaw country. it just seemed like more country to me But I had older brothers and sisters. so I think that's how I hold that's how I heard other music. likeike when I was like nine or ten I had an older brother who bought Um never mind the Balls and talking head seventy seven So there was muse. I remember And because of them, I remember the white album was around or like like Wings's greatest hits. Like there wasn't a ton ton of music. my sister who was closest to me really like Pat Benetar and she liked you know, Ao Speed Wagon high infidelity. and I thought that was cool too You didn't start playing til much later, right?'t I didn't pick up a guit until I was eighteen. But around the age of sixteen That's when I think I decided that music was a big part of my personality. And I became obsessed with REM like Murmur and Reckoning in Chronictown. And I loved the Smiths and I loved Echo and the Bunnymen and I loved violent films and Huskerdo and the replacements and whoever, you know One of the advantag I felt like a nerd but I was super cool when I look back at what I was listening to. I just thought one of the advantages growing up in Canada is you just got a lot more English bands and you got them much earlier than Americans did. think I think it's possible being part of the Commonwealth Mbe I like yeah, I bought enemy, you know, religiously was always interested about what was going on there. I mean, the quQeen was on her money. I didn't understand disliking the queen, but yeah, at least I knew like who were they were talking about when they said when the sex pistols talked about God save the quQueen, it's like, I've seen her. Yeah, God save her. Was there one song? Was there one album that made you think that made you pick up the guitar and think I can do this. No. I just had, um I loved music and I had a I had a friend who just when I was eighteen said, Hey, I'll show you how to play a few chords. show me how to play EA and D. And he said, Okaykay, now you can play Gloria by them And I thought that's cool. And then I realized that E A and D. I could also play Superman the song REM covered. There was no sixty song, right? The Yeah coverred by the click And which I learned years later, And then I think I I bought a easy guitar Beatles song book And I think that's where I learned Most of my chords, but even easy guuitar Beatles was still like every chord You know, You were learning C seven and C minor you know, the C shharp minor And u So when did the writing start think I don't know. it was I'm not even sure if you'd call it writing. I think I would just I would just like mess around on the guitar. L I remember gettingting super into There was a point where all I'm not sure if I'd started playing with anybody yet, but I became obsessed with the pixies and throwing muses. There was a six month period where I honestly don't think I listened to anything exxcept pixies and throwing m uses and there's some Especially with throwing muses, there was something cool and angular there. I realized I could just pick up a guitar and I didn't even have to learn scales you know, I could just like make rhythmic noise. Like I could almost play like random notes, but if you do them If I play these five random notes, but I keep doing it every few bars, like that's that's a part. You know, it felt like that's what the throwing muses do And then the pixies I realize like It was the first music that I absolutely loved where I could break it apart. and figure out what the parts were It's like, okay, well The base is doing that simple thing And the guitar is just doing that simple thing and the drums are doing that and the guitar is just going You know, it's just making cool simple melodies And that was what I think made me think I wanted to try king music, but I was not serious about it that it even occurred to me to imitate the pixies or imitate throwing muses And I start, u My friend started a band called superconductor. we thought it was a stupid name. which was a very nineties thing to do. This is the worst name. Let's start a band to go with this terrible name And we ended up having six guitar players because six guys who played guitar showed up And then we just and then nobody wanted to sing And I realized like, oh, maybe I'm the singer. And I never thought about being a singer in the band, but it was almost like I don't I don't know why. You know, I've been thinking about it recently how about things being almost predestined. Like like how much of your life is pre will? sorry, pre will. That works too, pretty well, pretty well. P of the same. Yeah I like to live pretty well. It's my favorite era. I was into pre love. was my thing. Yeah. Exactly. But the because I've Becoming the singer in the band, I just fell into it and it just it just happened and I never I never intended. and I I look I look at myself playing music through the years and I can't figure out why I kept going because For the first few years, I wasn't very good. I was I wasn't really taking it seriously, but I kept doing it. Like I what in your twenties? Yeah, like early twenties. were wereere you at school at that point? Were you doing other things that you were more serious about? I was at school, but I was a terrible student, you know, just a general loser U you know, But you're really selling this album, I have to say. But I think but I you know, I think I was a loser because I was kind of not listening to what my fate was You know, I think I was clearly being called towards something. Um, and which is kind of my point and they like I would do these shows where there's nobody there and we weren't very good But yet, None of that. it bumped me out notot enough that I would stop. And there are so many things that I've been bad at in my life that made me think I don't ever want to do that again. because I hate being bad at it. but music I just kept I kept moving in that direction. Now was Vancouver a good place to be for that? wereere there Was there a scene? Were there good clubs? Were there places you could go? Did people want to hear new music? I think so well, I think there's just You know You have group you have groups of people that like Music. I think I think that's where it starts you you collect in this city and you realize are the people that go to the same shows or maybe they all work at the same record store or something like that And at some point somebody says, Ohh, maybe we should start a band because we We like fall and mud honey and Sonic youth or whatever, you know. And guess so I mean, I think every city has that and you have, you know You have that kind of group of people and I don't know girls that you're in love with and that group of people. you know And then there are people that have their weird little clubs. peopleople have their weird little record stores and clubs let you play good that way, but nothing, nothing really. importantort was coming out of it you know, it's, I don't think that's That is important. It was just a place for people to start. It was people a place for people like me just to kind of start playing People like me and pornographers and Destroyer in Black Mountain, a place just for those people to start playing music and see what happens. And some people drop out I used to think it was so strange that people quit playing music Somebody I knew from the scene who had a band that was going for years and one day they said, No I'm going back to school and they abandoned music forever And I thought What? You know, and and I that's when I realized people are doing this for different reasons Like like like some people are starting a band because they want to become popular and if they don't become popular, it's like, what's the point And I realized no, I was not that person. I was the person. What person were you then? What allowed you to persevere I did Well, again, I I think it was I had no choice. It was just the direction I was moving in Um, it never occurred to me to stop. And I loved it I love the idea of it as a life pursuit I remember seeing the band The Sun City Girls play in a radio station