The Iconic Babadook Costume Tweet

This message comes from Data IQ. AI is everywhere, but companies struggle to prove results. For that, they need people, orchestration, and governance working as one. Data IQ is the platform for AI success, buuilt to bring it all together. Visit dataiku d. com slash npR Bullseye with Jesse Thorne is a production of maximumfund. org and is distributed by NPR. It's Bllseye. I'm Jesse Forne So there is a new show on streaming. It's called Widows Bay. It's been out for a little bit. Maybe you heard about it Here's the premise Widows Bay is a small, picturesque island off the coast of New England The tiny town on this island has it all. Beautiful old buildings, charming seafood shacks, eccentric locals And also a dark posossibly supernatural past If this premise sounds familiar to you, well, congratulations. That means that you have seen like One of twenty five percent of the horror. Films and TV shows of the last forty years. I mean, pet cemetery, Beetlejuice, the lighthouse, Jaws Widowspay nods to all those great works and to others, but it's also nothing like them. First of all, it's funny Not like scary movie funny The jokes when a character does tell a joke are subtle There are a lot of visual gags. Nothing is really Boo And that's because the show doesn't spoof anything And because the show doesn't spoof anything, it's also Legitimately kind of scary People are in real peril Creepy, ghosty figures appear in frame and then vanish. Like here's a good example. I'll try not to give you too much spoiler. In one episode A supernatural humanoid creature appears. and throughout this episode, nobody on the island knows where they stand with that creature In one moment, it's motionless, still and brooding and ominous, and then later, it weeps over the loss of the loved ones that it once had. And then at another point, the creature trades obscenities with Matthew Reese, who plays the mayor of Widows Bay me No Pw until they both feel like they've said their peace It is an unusual television program Katie Dipold created the show. She is also my guest. She worked on parks and Recreation. She wrote the twenty sixteen Ghostbusters Revival and the twenty thirteen action comedy The Heat All great stuff Widows Bay Absolutely a masterpiece. I'm so excited to talk with Katie Dipppold about the show. Let's get right into it Katie Diboldd, welcome to Bullszy. I'm so happy to have you on the show and I enjoyed your show so much. A, thank you. Thanks for having me. You are like a scary things enthusiast? Yes I'm not. Oh really? I'm scared of them Do you like horror movies at all? s the lighthouse? Okay. yeep Great movie. But that movie was just more bonkers than anything else. Yes Yes. And it was still a little intense for me Okay, ye. But my daughter likes sccary movies And my poor wife has to watch them with her Oh, that's a nice mom. It's really intense. Yeah. For my daughter's unbothered by it, for my wife very intense. Yes, okay. Did you watch horror things as a child? Yes, It was a real big part of my childhood. I feel like my family really came together watching a horror movie. Everybody together We really did do that often. and even when I was very little, I remember sometimes where there would be something that wasn't for me, I'd be told. like On Friday the thirteenth for some reason, I wasn't allowed to watch. I mean I was six years old. That was And that was the last time I wast know why. Yeah. but I remember still my dad would walk down the hallway pass in my room and go couldn't help himself, you know Did you like it? did. I always found it exciting and fun and I don't know, there wass also a prankster element to my family Like when I was in kindergarten, like my class pictcher, I'm in a wheelchair because I broke my leg really badly And I was in the hospital for three nights And my dad said, He waited up to Noma was in the room. and he's like, I don't know how we're going to get this wheelchair home. I guess we're going to have to tie a rope bumper to the wheelchair and get you home like that. and never told me he was joking. So for the rest of my stay, I was just sweating, thinking about this car ride home swinging around the road on this wheelchair. And finally when they put me in the back seat of the car I was like, o than God Oh, thank God. And so I feel like there' something about horror movies that I do find like a similar kind of magic trick prankster element that both my parents loved to bring to the home posossible that's bad I mean, I would say I'm a very anxious person I mean, I have to imagine They could be connected I don't know honestly. sometometimes people like horror movies in part because gives them a sense of control over their anxiety. Absolutely If you're living life waiting for their shoe to drop and there's just this simmering anxiety And then you sit down and watch a horror movie, you get to experience that shoe dropping safely in your chair I also I mean, there are ones like Hreditary God, that one ruined me, but I loved it. but But I really like love the kind of weapons where there's like a sense of play to it, you know Would you like a goofy one? Do you like you know, an Eil Dead type one? Id love Evil Dead. I generally don't love goofy horror movies because I want the scary parts taken seriously But I do love evil then Evil dead takes it very seriously, actually. I mean the way the camera comes up as the demon spirit of' is terrifying But anyways, so I tend to like For me, the sweet spot is taken seriously There's like a great magic trick element to it, you know, like my favorite of all time is sounds of the Lamps which is intense I don't get scared easily from horror movies because I'm just delighted by them, but The sequence when Hannibal escapes is the scariest thing to me in the world still I mean, a joke Crank. and a scare in a movie All these like machines Yeah made to build and release tension, right? Like it's all just like pieces that fit together. Yes. That's exactly right And Hannibal escaping is the best example of that to me, because you spend the whole movie thinking there is no one more dangerous than this man When you first see him in that basement, you go down all those flights of stairs. They give her the rules, they show her photos that we don't even see, but it shows what happened when the nurse got too close last time And then he's behind that glass wall and it's like, o, thank God, this guy's under this much security. And so later in the movie, when he actually does escape, it's just the best setup in the world. And God, the way that sequence is just masterful Y show has a very particular and specific kind of horror slash comedy which is I think usually, at least as I've seen it The like kills and the jokes are one and the same, right? Like they're both scary and funny at the same time the ridiculousness makes you laugh just as it makes you gasp in horror comedy That is not what your show is like Nor is your show jokes put into a regular horror thing How would you describe the tone that you wanted to achieve on What a spite It's a very tricky balancing act It's a real dance because There are so many things that came up in the writer's room that would make me laugh so hard. Itust like I would laugh so hard, but then you couldn't really use it. It would just undercut the tension. So the goal was always one to never undercut the tension. Like I really w to believe you could go to this place, you could would meet real people and you would be in danger That also made the comedy hard because a lot of stuff didn't work. And if a character acts too broad, you're just taken out of it completely. So it was trying to find humor that would come from character in a believable way Because anytime there was a moment that felt too pushed, it's just like you're just dead in the bot And so it was constantly questioning everything from the scripts on set to post, to the edit, from beginning to end, just constantly just really analyzing every moment How do you decide who is at the center of a story like this? Be You have to have the right mix of insider and outsider. R And it's such a wonderful performance. Oh, he's amazing Matthew Rese? Yeah Yeah, casting was one of the crazier parts because nothing felt right for so long And if it was someone that screamed comedy, I don't know that I myself would watch it, you know? I would like I watched a couple episodes of Steve Carerell's show the other day. And I just I was just marveling at how much you like Steve Carell the moment he appears on screen. You know what I mean? Like're just he's so radiant and he's so funny But as I was watching this show, I was like, well, what if a great comedy performer who is warm and likable since you have to like the character was at the center of the show. and I was like, that would throw the whole balance off. It's the craziest thing. It's so This whole show is all about these dials And then the dial goes a little too far in one direction. It's like, start over. And so casting was really tough. And so when Matthew Reese came up, I'm a huge fan of his. I'm obsessed with Americans and I think he's one of the greatest actors of all time, truly. But I was like,, it's hard to imagine. L I've never seen him do like anything comedic. he Welh, yes. which I think I had forgotten. And so I zoomed with him with Hiram Marai, the director and he had his full Welsh accent and he was so just lovely and funny and charming and he just really seemed to get what What he thought was funny about the show was Dlightful to me But I remember also I pitched him, thenight when I pitched him in the season arc. that was a story. He was listening and just kind of turned serious and it kind of reminds me of his character from the Americans again. I was like, Ohh my god, it's him, you know Anyways, but we got off the Zoom and then I talked to herero and we just both felt great. Like this whole show, I think making the show is a lot of like gut feeling like, o, this feels bad or this feels good But when we got off that zoom, it just felt good. I'm like, oh, thank God, this just feels like the right thing. And then sure enough, like he's just he's like an incredible actor And he doesn't go for the joke. he just plays the scene But he's also so naturally funny. has impeccable comedic timing. So as a real dream comeure. I don't I don't know the show would work with anyone else honestly Are there things about maintaining that tone that you learned as you the show like Yes. When you saw playback of something as your' editing episode one while you're working on episode three or equivalent Are the things that you saw that you learned I mean I was trying to throw different things at it because I knew some stuff wouldn't work and some stuff would. And so there's a couple jokes that were a little bit more broad that, you know, I ended up cutting So I just thenen it's interesting. I will say as the season goes on The more the tensions rise the more fun it is, especially when you have these actors Like such great actors like Stehen Roton, Katle Flynn and Dale Dickkey, they're so good. So when they play it real, it's fun and it's not taking away from it And so It's weird. It makes the first episode the hardest one of all, honestly, because you're just setting things up and you can't just do the typical sitcom jokes because this is supposed to be a real place. So that was the biggest challenge We're going to go take a quick break. When we come back, we will wrap up with the creator of Widows Bay, Katie Dipold. Stay with us. It's buullseye from maximumfund. org and NPR This message comes from Rosetta Stone. New Rosetta Stone Sapphire combines their trusted immersion method with the latest innovations in technology to help you learn faster and personalize your lessons. They have helped millions learn languages for over thirty years. Take your language skills to the next level with Rosetta Stone Sapphire. Get unlimited access to all twenty five Rosetta Stone languages, plus all the new saapphire learning tools. Visit roosettaestone d. com slash npr and receive twenty percent off today Support for this podcast and the following message come from Data ICu. AI agents are transforming how enterprises work The problem is many operate in secret The right people rarely know what their agents are doing if they're doing it right, or that they even exist at all Data IQ gives companies one place to see, control and measure every agent across the entire business. Visit dataiQ dot. com slash npR. That's da taiku dot com slash npr This message comes from Vintage, publisher of Martyr, a novel by Kava Akbar The story of an Iranian poet and his journey to uncover a haunting family secret, Martyr is a vivid portrait of how people spend their lives seeking meaning in faith, art, and each other. Martyr is now available in paperbacks This message comes from Total wine and more offering a selection of wine and spirits for summer dining. Total wine and more or tootalwine. com Spirits are not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly must be twenty one This message comes from Wise, the smart way to manage your money around the world. With Wise, you can send, spend and receive money in over forty currencies at the mid market rate. Learn more at wise. com Ts and ses apppplies Welcome back to Bullsseye. I'm Jesse Fororne I'm here in the studio with Katie Dipppold. She's a writer for TV shows and movies. She worked on parks and recreation and wrote the twenty sixteen Ghostbusters movie, among other things She just created her very own show Widows Bay is a horror comedy set in a fictional cursed New England town. It stars Matthew Reese, Kato Flynn, and Stehen Root. It's so good, you can watch the first season on Apple TV Let's get back into my conversation with its creator, Katie Dipppold You wrote for years on parks and recreation which is or was an unusual television sitcom and then it really privileged narrative and character and tone over jokes Why did you learn from working on that show. you know One of the biggest things I really loved about the writing on that show was when something would feel like a throwaway joke But then it would become a whole episode later, you know, L when Tom Haverford mentions the glitter factory, like the toown Strip Club And it's just its own joke, but then we later spent a whole episode at the Glitterfactor. Like that would happen a lot. And I always enjoyed that I didn't know anything when I first startedc. I'd come from Mad TV and so when they were talking about character arcs and I don't know.ot a lot of stories to be broken and. It was not character. Yeah, it was not about someone's Third act, you know, Parody of the shhark at the Katy Perry Super Bowl or something. Yes, exactly. Yeah. We're not following that shark's story So I really was so freaked out at first. and I remember I was really quiet and I think I'd started with a couple of the new writers who were at the beginning quiet as well. And I remember Greg saying, listen, if like It's helpful to me when you Sak because even if I don't likequ quit your're pitching, it's still good for me to, you know understand what's working, what's not working. So please speak up And I feel like I was like five minutes later, I pitched something and the whole room was like, no, no, no, no. But they like it's interesting. I feel like I never by the time I fully understand something, I feel like I'm on the next project. And I'm like, no, let me go back and now use this thing. I feel like I've learned, but then I'm trying something else What did what did you learn on parks and rec that felt that way I mean, honestly, like did not understand they meant character. There's like a lot of math to it and just like I just it just I mean, now it seems like simple, but if you've never talked about it before you really don't understand what the hell people are saying. You know W you explain it to me? Well just like okay, well, and we use something we end up not using, but like Andy Originally he had a whole trajectory to he was going to become the mayor of Poni someday, you know? And so you think about the season Okay, what are steps for that he can take to get there. And you just sort of map out the season and say, okay, this episode, we're going to see him do this. You just you're kind of charting this journey and ideally adding dilemmas and choices that he makes to show. gets there O some people do it the opposite way where you don't know how it's going to end, but you come up with the dillmas first and then follow well, what would that character do? and go that way? So there's a lot of different ways to do it That also one thing that was nice because I used to always, I think one thing I did Wong was I should have like thought about what I just think is funny and fun rather than worrying so much about what the right thing to say was because I don't think that would, you know. And I remember Mike sure did this really lovely thing where When he sent me off on script for my first script is Beauty pageant He said like, o, interesting l. The spec he got I got the job for was Widows Bay And so when he pointed out a joke from that pilot He's like, do stuff like that, you know, Dad, use your humor, do that. And it was very freeing and it was a really I don't I don't even know if you'd remember that, but he just pointed out one joke, like, do stuff like that. And it changed how I felt being in a room And it was very really motivating, not hard because of that Okay, so You wrote a version of Widows Bay as a spec script comoming out of Mad TV. Yes. Sent this to Mike sure, the boss of Parks and Rack. That's how you got hired on Parks and Rack What was the difference between This thing that you wrote fifteen years ago? Yeah. Almost. L like eighteen. Yeahah,'s. Okay, there you go. What's different now all these years later? Well It's okay, I would say the big differences are. it was much more comedy focused and TV has changed so much since then I think the show would have risked feeling like a parody and I really, really wanted to avoid that feeling with us And so it was very joke heavy. And I would say the other big difference is that the mayor knows the town is cursed from the get go and he's just trying to convince people. So it's just broader and a little bit more I don't know, and I think it a lot of the jokes and humor feel like the heart of what's there now but it just feels differently. It just feels it's a different experience. Why did you keep it? Uh Why do I mean like why did I keep going back to it all this time I don't know. I guess I just really wanted this place to exist I really enjoy it's the Stephen King thing too. Like I just enjoy feeling like I'm in a world that doesn't exist. and I don't know if that's the, you know, the dayaydreamer of me as a kid you know stressful household. My parents are great, but, you know, just Great house Great people, but just like my dad, you know, he quit drinking when I was twelve. So there's always a little bit of like the walking on eggshells kind of tension, you know And so like I just always loved imagining going somewhere. like I had such an obsession with like Disney and EpCot Center. and And I do still think up perm mages really likes turn of feeling like you can create this world that doesn't exist that you can just go to And u So I think that's part of it. And I just, I don't know, for some reason It felt like it was very easy for me to write humor for this show. You know, that makes sense One are my favorite movies of the last fifteen or or twentyw years is a movie that you wrote called The Heat. It is a silly goof movie. Like a silly goof buddy movie. Yes You got a situation in Boston. I'm sending you up I We recently got intel that you brought in a dealer Terrell Ros . Detective Mull is in back to lunch here. Im sure you won't me? Well, he's she. Oh God. When you wrote that film, which was the first screenplay you had produced, How did you think about balancing the idea of like, oh, is this a parody? or oh, is this not about anything? or you know what I mean? R? Yes. Okaykay I feel like if anything comes from a pass, it's actually kind of similar in a way. because I For a long time, I wanted to be an FBI agent growing up And so it just came from that stand place like, I just want to imagine I'm a FBI agent and just started from there And so Then I think the most important thing for me is like the dynamics. So like Wot' B, like surrounding loft is with people that you can have fun with those dynamics in different ways And so with the heat, it was this FBI agent That's, you know, a little bit more I don't want to say uptight, but just a little bit like more, you know, went to you know, just more It was By the book. Yes, thank you. By the book is a classic forty eight hours. Yeah And then Molins the cop is just going to be someone that's just going to constantly chisel at her and just poke at her So I think if when you focus on the characters and those dynamics And that's where the humor comes from, then it will feel less like a parody That has been at least what I've been trying. I mean, you also get an immediate blast of differentness because We're so used to this sort of absurd hyper masculinity in that kind of movie. Right. Putting like fun women in those parts rather than, I mean, usually One of the dudes is fun and the ones where it's two duded. Right. You know what I mean? It really was like a different time. Like it wasn't that long ago. the movie came out in twenty thirteen It was so different than it. because I remember when I was writing it Bridesmaids hadn't come out yet People were like, you know, you should wait and see how brridesmaids does before you try to take this out And it's so crazy. It's like if brridesmaid had not done well then that would have been it It's crazy. And I would love to say that I was like, I don't care. I'm gonna finish writing it and it's going to be great. But I think I did take a break. I'm like, all right, let's see how Brrightface does. You know, I'm ashamed to admit that. L it's true. It's like We gott to find out if people enjoy women. I know, it's so wild. It's so crazy And it's like, There was a period of time where that was the question and then thenen there's a period of time afterwards like that people like, well, I'm not talking about that anymore. That's crazy But now to me, this is the time of like, do you remember when people used to ask that? you know? Anways, but it's u It just blows my mind it wasn't that long ago that that was a question Speaking of the horrors of Hollywood You wrote the hilarious twenty sixteen Ghostbusters movie which was freaking hilarious. Oh, thank you. was the subject of intense internet bologoney from the moment it was announced. It was like the like Entertertainment property that defined modern internet bologon What was it like to be gettingetting that kind of intense energy before like There even was a movie. It was an intense reaction that I did not expect. and I probably should have expected it honestly I mean, it's like a movie. The original is just partart of everyone's soul. I mean,, if you grew up in the eighties or if you were just alive in the eighties, that movie had a huge impact on your life And u I really think the original is almost like a miracle now from being in this business, when I see a good movie in theaters, I'm like, God bless them. because you know all the different things that have to come together. And that movie could have been so bad. And when you see the level of competence on a thing that's bad, like when I walk through a commercial being shot in my neighborhood And I see the level of competence of everyone involved. likeike this extraordinary And I'm like at the end of that it's just going to be the AffLAC duck or whatever. Right. Best case scenario, it's going to be the AffLC Duck. Yeah then you're like, how could anything possibly work? Exactly. It's crazy. all the stuff that has to come together. and that movie had Dan Ackrod's passion and just this amazing idea. And then you had Harold Reayus, you know, working on the script Then you had Ivan Reitman in this moment of time making the best comedies. and you had Bill Murray doing Bill Murray and is just Pein Bill Murray. And it's all those things came together and I can't imagine any of those elements missing So all that to say is alsoso people kind of got lumped together. And I think this happens so much today in politics too and it's such a bummer. L you're allowed to not like the movie. You're allowed to one not be excited that it's not going to be the ghostbuster sequel you thought where you're going to see these characters that you loved version at that time was not going to happen And so anyways, but I understand being bummed. I understand Its scen movie and it's not for you. L all those things are allowed I think there were also people that were like, So angry, you know? I remember there was a tweet this really made me laugh And this man was like trying to be helpful. He was like, listen, I'm just worried women can't carry that kind of dialogue Like he was just trying to help out And so it's hard to even be mad at that. But that was like So people kind of get lumped in together, you know And I think that's where things get ugly because it's like It wouldd be easy for me to just point at someone who fired off some like violently sexist Teet, you know, like some angry rage filled tweet and like, o, this is why they don't like it. But you know, there's plenty of reasons why someone could decide it wasn't for them, you know I think because the original Ghostbusters to find its own genre. Yeah And like changed the way that Buster cinema is made to some extent It's easy to forget When we look back on it how much it is about Aion and horror Right. Like I watched it with my kid, let's say seven years ago, something like that, right And I'm like, o right, there's not even that many jokes in this movie This is mostly an action horror blockbuster. Right. What did you learn from obsessing over Ghostbusters as much as you have to to write a Ghostbusters movie and writing a Ghostbusters movie that taught you about that relationship between jokes and scary stuff Dob, I feel like Everything I've done you could chart how it got from there to there to like this show now, you know, and learning things along the way and some painful lessons pressures are tricky because it's like sometimes A script can lean one way or the other. Like there is a version of that movie that leans more on the character jokes. You know what I mean? And there's a version that leans more on the action. I feel like the script At least like the early drafts We're doing both of those things. and I think we started rewriting it and zeroing in on more action. I don't know what the right answer is honestly, because It's okay I'll admit one thing. like You know, there's a scene that is Again, this is hard to admit because it's something that means a lot to the people that do like the movie But like the scene when they're in Times Square and they're fighting the supernatural Like I was always less into that because I'm like, they're scientists. You know what mean? They're not action here, They're scientists But then, you know, the movie came in, it's like everyone's favorite sequence and it meant a lot to a lot of women. But I just also find that funny. I'm like, o, okay, I'm glad that no one listened to me on that one. Also, you're making a squidjillion dollar movie, you gotta have an extravaganza in there. Yes, exactly. Yeah It sounds I mean, I thought so much on set. Im my God, what was it like to make theri? Be I mean On set for this one, there's so much pressure. I can't imagine for the cast too, you know what I mean? And they're all great and lovely people but I can't imagine like being put in this position of like, you have to be this like iconic person now And so for me, it was like it was just making a movie with just So much pressure and people looking at you and people pointing out everything. I don I mean people within the production And um, I weirdly have fond memories of the experience, but it was incredibly stressful. And I can't imagine what it was like making the original one just being like, look at this crazy thing we're doing Much more still to come with Widows Bay creator Katie Dippold. including how she came to write one of the biggest Twitter posts of all time because of a Halloween costume We'll get into it, I promise. it It's buullseye from maximumfund. org and NPR This message comes from Rosetta Stone. Their latest innovation, Rosetta Stone Sapphire, helps you go from knowing phrases to speaking confidently. They have helped millions learn languages for over thirty years. Take your language skills to the next level with Rosetta Stone Sapphire. Get unlimited access to all twenty five Rosetta Stone languages, plus all the new Sapphire learning tools Visit roosettaestone. com slash npR and receive twenty percent off today Support for this podcast and the following message come from Data ICu AI agents are transforming how enterprises work The problem is many operate in secret. The right people rarely know what their agents are doing, if they're doing it right, or that they even exist at all Data IQ gives companies one place to see, control, and measure every agent across the entire business. Visit dataiQ dot com slash npr. That's da taiku dot com slash npr This message comes from Vintage, publisher of Martyr, a novel by Kavea Akbar. The story of an Iranian poet and his journey to uncover a haunting family secret. Martyr is a vivid portrait of how people spend their lives seeking meaning in faith, art, and each other. Martyr is now available in paperbacks Wonderful is a podcast where we talk about things we like. That's hard to sell in a promo like this, so we've enlisted the help of piano rock superstar Billy Joel to tell you about some of the topics we've covered. Take it away, real Billy Joel City Rucksin on Lake Side, Worstonshire, Circle Time, Sega drrinkass sees a salad toer of Anned. Keep me up at time capapsules, Wayne's, World Cheese Bulls, Wallace, Stven Donkin Gone, Font size almmentoy. Theyall the fcast. Except that's not true. They did twenty two they didn the podcast? No they actually did. That was in fact a bib. Listen to Wonderful everyvery Wednesday on maximumfund. org or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks, real Billy Joel. No problem, Griffin It's Bllsye I' Jessseie Thorne. My guest is Katie Dipppold She's the creator of the TV show Widow'say You made maybe the most iconic tweet of all time, which is a tweet of a photograph of you in a Baba Duke costume sitting at a pretty dull dinner table where There's a bottle of wine and some paper plates And it says TBT back Thursday to Halloween when I dressed as the Boba Duke but my friend's house had more of a grown up drinking wine vibe. Can you tell me The context of this photograph of you in a Babadke costume Yes, my friend Trisha was having a Halloween party My friend Neil said he was dressing up But he was dressing up as a character from the Sprano so who wore a tracksuit, which is not a full Halloween costume. Right And so I got dressed. I went to the Salvation Army and found that coat and hat. and I can't remember I found the wig, probablyrob a Halloween store, got makeup. Really went to town You know, scared my boyfriend at home. That was nice. U so I got that at least. And then we got there, no one was dressed up and It was just such an extreme costume. Like I mean, these were good friends So it wasn't too horrible, but honestly, like the level of makeake up It's a lot. And I was drinking red wine so I had stained teeth, which just really stuck out against the white makeup. And then I just sat and watched a whole movie And when you're sitting for an hour and a half It feels real different after beat, you know Did you babaduke anyone at all