Faith and Finding Redemption

Hey, it's Christy from Lou Lemmon. I'm in the office with What's New and the Breezzly collection has definitely caught my eye. If you're like me and want to add some lighter, airy pieces to your wardrobe, this is a great place to start. There's a Breezzly tank, shorts, and pants, all in our swift fabric which is super lightweight and stretchy. They're flowy staples you can mix and match for a really easy elevated vibe whether it's to and from the studio or just for every day. The Breezalily collllection is in store now or you can shop online at lululemon. com. Biden Welcome to the Candidus Ow S showow. It's wonderful to be. People are just going to be like, how on earth did this happen? right now I got to give them a bit of a backstory. So I I went to dinner with a fellow podcaster and we were just talking about interviews. we don't do too many interviews on the show. and he The first assing it was the best interview I ever did. And I said, without question, the US.S Liberty Survivor Phil Turnney And then he said, what would be your top interview that you'd want to do? And I said, Oh gosh, we're in such a different time now. Like I'm just not interested in politics. it would have to be something so different. And then I said, actuallyually Hunter Biden And I said to him, I watched your sit down with Andrew Callahghan. Yeah. And it was the most refreshing interview that I had seen in politics for in a very long time because we're so used to being gaslit about various things happening, everyveryone's trying to hide stuff. And We read a lot about you. I guess we didn't really hear anything from you. So this was kind of the first time I heard you in your own words, just totally owning your addiction issues, alsoso going after Jake Tapper and George Clooney and when we were kind of expecting the typical Democrat, like these are great guys. These guys are amazing. Jake Tapper should, you know, win a pulitz or, I don't know I would just it wasn't what I was expecting is what I would say. So and then that person just sort of made this happen. Yeah. So I want to just sort of get into the Hunter Biden story. I will say to the audience right now, I have already made the pledge right when I got on the phone with you that like obviously I'm not going to make you say anything bad about your father because that would just be completely demonic to be like say something terrible about your father. Everyone knows my opinions, my political perspectives, they're already out there. He's your dad. So that is separate my vpoint because there's no way I possibly could. Yeah, of course. I totally get that. But there's a lot to be said about you and a lot that I guess hasn't been said about your journey. And I guess I want to start with justust one question for the culture The cocaine that was found at the White House Was it yours? No, not only was it not mine. Num one is thank you. having me here. And one of the reasons is to be able to answer these questions you know, the one thing I am, uh afterfter six years of this. I've been sober since june first of twenty nineteen. clean is over. Verifiably so by the way, and verifiably so by the the the the Bureau of probation in which was drug tested randomly for over the course of two years while I went through my trials and things like that beyond that is that uh Directly to your question, I wasn't even there Not only there, but people have to understand is where that cocaine was found? was you know the visitors' entrance underneath the is where visitors come in and they come over from the old executive office building staff to go to the go to the Oval or go to the Chief of staffs office or to the offices in the West Wing And it was found in a cubby in right outside of the situation room. And It's like No possibility, not even remotely beyond the fact that I wasn't even there. I mean, I spent probably, you know, over the course of four years, maybe twenty five days at the White House, like twenty five nights, thirty, if I you know, I'm being fair And so It's just a, you know It was an easy easy, you know, u I was I'm an easy target and understandably so. Right. I mean, I've been I think probably the most famamous addict and famous person There is the grace of God in recovery for seven years, but we're close to seven years. June first Yeah, I definitely thought you were on drugs while your father was in the White House. I don't know But I think it might have just also been the timing of the laptop coming out and then people just assuming that you were still on drugs. I don't know, that might have been why in our heads. We thought that. I think that it was they purposefullly conflated, you know, my I wrote a book And which came out in April of twenty twenty one, in which I did something that veryery few people, I think ever in that are kind of like similarly situated to me do, in which I was one hundred percent frank about the fact that not only was I an addict, not only was I alcoholic, I don't really see the distinction between the two when they're both drugs I was a crack addict Like I was a deegenerate crack addict. I mean I've heard you call me a crackad many times. and the truth of the matter is I was a crackhead. Yeah and and and um, and And I say that not to shock people because it's really shocking Cack coaine carries such a stigma to it, begin with. But I say it because I think that there are so many people I know There are so many people. I think that there's, you know At any given time, thirty million Americans that are either in active addiction or in recovery There's not a single person that I know that hasn't been impacted by addiction at some level in some form. personally or with someone that is one degree of separation from them that they love No one I know. Last of all me. Yeah. And yeah. And and and part of that one of the reasons I'm here, the stories that you tell about that in terms of My family. Your family. And uh and And there is where the common ground is forermain it I can one hundred percent Say this is that I a friend of mine had said, in me this quote Um about two years ago. And it's become my mantra is it it's Mother Teresa. It was attributed to Mother Teresa. is if you want to change the world, go home and love your family That's That is my that's my everything now. And and part of that is not just the family that you have by blood and birth, but also community that that you're inextricably tied to. And that community, for me is the recovery community peopleople that are still sick and suffering from addiction And so biggest reason that I wanted to come talk to you beyond the fact and this is not people bling smoke. I think that Regardless of whether I agree with you, that you're probably the most effective communicator I've ever heard behind a microphone And it's really driving me crazy at times. reallyally, really really prettyat. Yeah. U, but is is is that I wanted to talk to you about those things. And anything else you want to talk about. Yeah. was I'm most interested in the addiction story. and I was saying too before we got before I startorted rolling that this was sort of something that I noticed when I would cover various topics, whether it was pornography, drugs on my show, drinking, how many men would write and say they were suffering with various things, and yet they don't often speak about how they're quietly suffering whether it's with addiction to pornography, addiction to drugs. And I don't think there are enough conversations about it. And so when I watched that interview, of you just just laying it out there, something that most people try to hide or they're shameful of. I was like, there actually just needs to be more dialogue about it. I grew up with tons of addicts in my family. I have people in my family who are still addicted. and there is I think There is a natural anger that people have when they for some reason believe, and I think this was part of the anger that evenven that I had it toward you before I heard you speak about your addiction, is that you sort of think when somebody has money and political connections, that somehow removes them from going through these sorts of barriers in life. So when I grew up, it's like, okay, like you have uncles, whatever that are addicted to crack, you have cousins that are doing crack, whatever it is, or experimenting with meth and drugs and those things. And then you see someone that has a life of privilege, and for some reason in your mind, you wrongly go, okay, that can't happen And it did happen. And I actually I'd like to hear like how you got addicted. L what was actually the story, your path toward addiction? Yeah. so thank you for Let me talk about that. as can be about it And I really mean it it's u One of the things that traps people I can only speak about myself, but I think that People that are in that are addicts or that are in recovery Also you find out really fast is that you're not as terminally unique as you think you are is that and one of the things that Noah is really important about adddicts talking to each other and talking about it is that realization because One of the things that traps you in your addiction is shame And you know, you like me are u Catholic and we have learned that guilt isn inappropriate Eotion. Guilt is an appropriate response to something when you've done something wrong. And you're supposed to atone for it And you're supposed to seek forgiveness, whether the forgiveness comes from an individual or not. You're That is the um that's the lesson is that it is in, uh only u A you seeking that forgiveness, can you release yourself from that guilt That's appropriate Shame is not Shame is just absolutely corrosive. Shame is you telling yourself that you're not worthy that you're never going to be worthy, that you things that you've done you could never be redeemed from. And I've done horrible things about my addiction in terms of what I did in terms of my relationships and and decisions that I made and more than anything is just removing myself from being present for the people that love me Um, and, um and What happened to me Um And I really mean this is that the exposure, not Peace meeal Total exposure My entire digital footprint stolen from me twenty year digital footprint every text message, every picture, every All of the things that that you would be ashamed of became front page News U For four years Five years um beginning in Shes has a ninet team. And uh And it forced me into a choice And the choice was So I get out of bed and live or do I die? And it became that much of an economy and I Uh, And I chose to live It wasn't easy And um, and maintaining sobriety in that kind of like a pressure cooker is often the thing that triggers you, but something brokkeen me in a good way which was that I no longer have any fear I had like, Sitting down with you. To me, an all an opportunity for you to see me as a human being and not, you know, Hunter Biden laptop. Eczema as unpredictable you can flare less with eGlyiss, a once monthly treatment for moderate severe eczema After in an initial four month or longer dosing phase, about four in ten people taking EPLS achieve it relief and glare are almost glare skin at sixteen weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more glare at one year, with monthly dosingLS LKZ a two hundred fifty milligram per two milliliter injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children twelve years of age and older who weigh at least eighty eight pounds or forty kilograms with moderate severe ecza. also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with cription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGlS can be used with or without topical corticosteroid. Don't use if you're allergic to EBGlIS. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EBGLS. Before starting EBGlS, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection Ask your doctor about EBlS and visit Eglus. liily. com or call one it hundred Lily R X or one one hundred five four five five nine seven nine pictures that, you know, u Congressman Green like in Congress or the or the New York Post, you know, I think I was on the cover of the New York Post in one year more than Anny. anybody in the history of the paper And none of it was good. None of it was good And um What it's given me is the opportunity to own it all is to own all of my story without shame or fear. . realizing that I u I have a community of people out there I won to, uh I want to be of service to him I really mean that and and, um, And so Part of it is byy me being able to be honest about it. we were just talking before we started this is the hardest thing for any addict to do is not only get honest with the people that they love honest with themselves. And until they can, so they can really see themselves for who they are. All of it and decide to love themselves then you know, yeah, the cycle is just going to continue. It's just at least in my experience, that's the truth I think one of the things didid I even answer your question? Yeah,, I want to talk about the first time that you got introduced to it because that's interesting. Oh. I know I went into all the guys. Yeah actually start with that, like how did you actually get introduced firstirst off, describe for people who don't know the difference between cocaine and crack because crack is a lot more addictive Yeah. And so just what is the difference? I know I got a lot of heat for. No, it was fantastic It was fantastic. I was like, he was actually very educated on this. and Well, it was it important to me to make the distinction that there's this idea that that there's this kind of a secret kind of special enhancement to powder cocaine that makes it into crack. you know, you have to have, you know, uh some technical degree in order to be able to do that. And Let's start all the way to the beginning. I think that I'm genetically predisposed to be an alcoholic. I do believe that there is a genetic piece of it I do believe that my brain works differently as an addict in terms of the way in which my synapses fire once they're introduced to the dopamine hit in the serotonin increase that occurs because of an introduction of a substance I believe that u that that I became, u acclimated and physiologically depended upon that when I u started to drink in earnest when I was in college and which you can control and it a madeated through Gor toown and I went to Jesuit Volunteer Corps for a year and and it's kind of like domestic peace. Well, you know that JBC. I was JBC for year after after college. And and then I went to yeale Lw school you know, was married, had a u, u my My oldest daughter when I was a first year law student made it through all of that and made it through my first years' employment drinking Probably more than everybody than most people do compleompletely functional. And one day I woke up when I was thirty three years old to my brother call me and said, this has got to stop he got to stop And um and And what he meant was is that, you know, like a whole weekend was missing kind of And um, And I and I said, okay And he drove me to the airport. And uh He put me on a plane in New York and I flew to a place that was started by Eric Clapton called Crossroads in Antigua And I went to rehab and I came out and and I went directly when I came out, my brother picked me up from the airport Drve me to an AA meeting Walked in with me in Dupont Circle in DC I met my sponsor first meeting that I ever went to and And I stayed clean and silver for u for about seven years And uh And then I relaxed And u And it was a It such a mundane, stupid story. I was on a plane by myself. everythingverything was okay. thingsings were looking up. It was, you know you know, normal life pressures, but it was all good And it's the um That's the Real insidious thing about addiction and alcoholism. It never goes away necessarily. There's always the answer that is being presented to you by the thing that you trust the most, which is your brain And what it says is If you don't want to feel this way Whatever the way is, or if you want to feel this way even more I have the answer for you And I was on a plane by myself And I had a drink And that drink in twenty ten, seven years almost of sobriety started a cycle of relapse and recovery and relapse and recovery in which it was really hard for me to be honest with the people that love me because I just wanted to hide it. I just wanted it to go away. and I thought, okay, I'll get through this cycle and, you know, I'll sleep it off this weeke and that's it. I'm done And that would last a week and then it would last three months. and then I went back to rehab and then it became kind of then I came back and I started I mean, talk about you talk about this all the time, which I love that you do. It was bigig pharma, you know what I mean? I had shingles and so somebody prescribed me like fifty two oxy coat like, I mean, ridiculous. and I started that. And then I started drinking again and the description ran out and then this cycle just started to happen And u But when my brother died, A It all helppart Bone eye. Uh or U Like I don't relationship Unique or that his loss was greater than my loss of him was greater than anybody else's loss of their brother or someone that they deep deeply loved But when my mom and sister and my Beau and I were in a car accident in nineteen seventy two, Um And we survived, it was the two of us every day. We're a year and a day apart. We talked every day. I mean, except when he was in Iraq, I literally probably talked to my brother every day. and, um and Uuh And when I when Bow died My marriage fell apart after twenty years, twenty two years Um Yeah by the way, for reasons that emerges fall apart You know And but I take a lot of responsibility for And uh And it just started a really, really dark cc cycle in the past when I would A when I want to have these relapses there There was always someone in such proximity to me that they would like You know, that couldn't escape. C escape In this instance, Be is gone I uh, right after Beu died, u I uh Um ended up separate it from my wife like within the month And my dad, for the first time in my life, who was my rock was stuck in his own Grief, like deep, deep grief. And And I just went down into a hole and I myself into rehab that year came out and states over for a while and then relapsed and then went into an outpatient program in DC where I went like you four hours every day for you know, from eight to two or six hours every day Um taste over and then I relapsed. and came back and they said, Well, you have to I admitted to them that I relapsed and that in this instance, I also used cocaine And they said, Well, youd have to take a u A drug test. And I said, I'm not going to take a drug test. I'm not going to put something on, you know, it's because it's not protected by HIPA in a ree. U U scenario Which is crazy, right. Yeah Anyway, long story short They said, you can't come back in unless you take the drug test. And I said, I'm not taking the drug test. I'm going through a divorce. it's not protected by HIPA. It will become public. I don't want to do this to my family m telling you, I use cocaine and I drank, Is that not good enough? Come back And they said, no, for whatever reason and I'm not blaming them. this is not their fault I walked out And I knew Lincoln Park was a kind of open air drug market I saw a woman that was kind of famous in the area since I had been in college, literally for twenty years that I would see in the streets around, you know, DC in that area where I would work for a long time. And I said I went up to her and I said, I get some crack And I think it was basically I said C she help me commit suicide I mean, I don't think I know that that now in looking back. It was the coward's way And I really mean that I was a coward I didn't go and just do it I said Let me do it this way and really, really, really drag everybody down with me along the way Let me figure out the way not only to kill myself, but to maybe kill my dad You know really hurt my family. Um particularly made three daughters who like adore me and adore. like just And I and I smoke rack The difference between crack cocaine and powder cocaine is this. And I really, truly do not want to give a roadmap for people to be able to Do this because I swear to God, it'll kill you but it's Sodium bicarbonate, which is baking soda water That's it That is the entire difference of it allows it to be ingested through a smoking And the combination of those things makes it so that it Itffects your physiology much faster than it would be if you just use powdder cocaine through your nose or in any other form other than intraveneously and It also allows you to ingest more faster than you could possibly ever ingest by sniffing cocaine up your nose combination of that, the combination of combustion ritual and the ritual meaning, the way in which you have to, you know, I mean, I can stuff on my hands doing it is, you know, becomes this ritualistic thing with the combination of comusion, which is and you learn you I mean, if you really study things about addiction is these kind of key components of oral fixation things like that, it just becomes the most ungodly addiction that you can possibly imagine to the point where I was smoking crack You know, I mean, literally,, you know, I was either looking for or smoking or recovering not even recovering. you don't recover. You just go find more for close to a two year period of time. W. And it took me to places You know, I wrote all about it And I got made fun of about it And you know, people think that, you know, when I wrote my book like, you know, cl, you know, callwing through the carpet to find crack cocaine and, you know, Parmesan cheese and, you know, And I know it's a real laline, but anybody that's ever been an addict like that They don't laugh about it. Devastating think that you were that person. You can see yourself doing it devastating And so what happens And addiction so often is this. people not only They can't admit that They can't even admit it to themselves to block it out. They go, they get thirty days clean They come out, they go back into the same exact situation that they were in before think I'm just not going to do it again. I'm just going to stay like I'm going to make it. I'm going make it. come up is that that Wake up in the morning and they'll remember. I'm in the motel with the, you know, the person, the prostitute, the partorted, the drugs And that still just st your wallet and all your and every and all your drugs and everything and you had to You you were callone through to see if there was anything there And you smoke whatever white that you found on the ground It's The shame is thinking of yourself like that, regardless of who you are, regardless of where you came from, whether dad's the president of the United States or it doesn't matter They don't admit that to themselves. they don't admit it to anyone around them ever say it? And you know what happens They never lose it and it sits like right here. your head and it pops up. And you just feel so disgusted with yourself Brain immediately tells you, regardless of how far away for you are from a drink or drug I know the way not to feel this way I know exactly how to feel this way. You're going to die if you keep feeling this way. You need to take a drink. And that's always always how it starts Alcohol is the most dangerous drug In world. U u is by virtue of the amount of destruction and and devastation that is u comes personally into the people around people that are alcoholics And I don't find any difference between being an addict and an alcoholic And but that's where it starts And that's where it started for me That was my that was my story until I met Melissa and Becklely and Sover and had been so You know, almost seven years now All right, you guys, some moments change everything. and for a woman facing an unexpected pregnancy, seeing her baby on an ultrasound and hearing that tiny heartbeat can turn fear into hope In fact, it doubles a chance that she'll choose life That's why preborn exists through free ultrasounds, compassionate care and real support. prereborn reaches women who feel overwhelmed and alone, giving them the chance to choose life for their babies and a future for themselves But the support doesn't stop there Reborn continues helping moms after birth with essentials like diapers, baby clothes, maternity, support, counseling, parenting resources, and encouragement Today, you can help a scared woman become a confident mother. 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I don't think people realize you're not You're just not even yourself. it's like a demon the best way to say it and maybe I'm taking a Catholic take on this, but like it's like a full demonic possession when you're in the throes of these drugs. And I mean, this was actually a great benefit of A andE doing intervention because people could really see these moments where people will choose the drug over their family, they will choose the drug over their kids. they willoo you know, they'll choose the drug over literally anything. And for people who and would I actually tend to agree with you that I've wondered myself if there's something genetic because I'm not wired that way. or mayaybe I just haven't found the drug that would do that to me. but like I would say that like I've just never been U never had something and I was like, Oh, I just need to have that again or want it again and I've seen friends that they have something once and they're like, want to do this every second. and I go, that's very interesting. Like it's almost like you're You're I totally made of something different. I'm certain of that. And the science is certain of that in many ways we all can I think that we all can Um associate with understand addiction at u more or less devastating levels. So for instance, where's your phone I mean, you have a you basically have a pcket of heroin. Right. We all do in our pocket constantly giving us that doping, which by the way, we can get to talking about that because I think that that that We are not nearly as divided of people as we think that we are. I think that Bag of heroin and everybody' Pcket is feeding them a lot of that division. But is so we can all kind of understand the compulsion to do things that aren't u that clearly aren't benefiting us staying up until three o'clock in the morning and going through for you page on TikTok every Mother, father or can watch their teenager do that income This is awful. and I'm gonna to take his phone away and then they turn back to their phone and they And they start going through their phone. like And and I'm, you know, I I am not any, uh Better, right So we can kind of all understand that compulsion. It's when the conulsion becomes J So Uh, uh, the blast radius continues to grow the difference between being a . you know, addicted to your phone, and being addicted to crack cocaine, I'm not saying are the same. But at least we can kind of get a little bit of an understanding of the physiology of that, of the way in which the brain actually works. the micro versus the macro. yeah. Yeah. E everybody has the micro. But so you can see the micro impact of it. And but I think one of the reasons that why people are, u So by my story. And by the way, and we're able to conflate. So if the New York Post everyvery day for six years. runs out picture on, you know, on online. I mean, I think they literally at one point did like one point five stories of me a day for an entire eightenth month period. And u in each It didn't matter what the subject was, it was the picture of me Naked prostitute with whatever and with a with crack with a crackpipe in my lips would Like so I don't get mad at people when they go. Like, was that your cocaine Well, number one, you know the White House. it's like just doesn't make any sense. I had seven secret se agents with me at any given time everywhere I went. The idea that I was in the situation room and would decide to drop off. I mean Beond beyond that silliness is the um I don't blame people We're not realizing that I have worked my an ass off I mean, in this environment proudest thing that I've ever done is stay clean and sober. through all of that. Every piece of it bothoth the trials, through the accusations, through the Alexander Srnovs and Galuffs and and you know Constantine Koolicks and leadb harnesses Crudys and Steve Bannon's and all of that. purely becausecause the love of the people around me and my willillingness to own it all I'm sitting in front of you Yeah and You're not taking that away from me. Right. No And by the way, that's the beauty of it. Yeah. The realization at one point. is that you can try No fear No fear And that doesn't and that's why I'm here More than anything is because I don't Id probably, you know I'm certain that we disagree on a lot of stuff, but there used to be a time canvas where you and I could sit down together disagree about tax policy and disagree about, you know the the Catholic Church's view on abortion. disagree with, I mean, whatever the subject may be still be able to go have a meal together. Right I talk about that often on my show. L I back when I was left leaning in college, my best friend was Republican consonservative. it wasn't so at each other's throat and hating each other and wanting to destroy one another. and You know, you kind of see the good and the bad and go, well, you know, this is why I have this perspective and perspectives could change and that was all lotowed too You know, I think about what it was that revisiting what made a lot of people, including myself so angry about you or I guess it wasn't really about you. It was. Gaslighting. It was the letter that came from people saying it was Russian propaganda That is what is driving us crazy about the Epstein files right now. It's what's actually leading ironically to the collapse of the MAGA supportpp is we don't want to be gaslit. And to be fair, it wasn't you, That's why it was so refreshing when you were like, yes, I had a crack addition. This is me. I did this. I was with hookers. but you weren't speaking for you. And they were there were literally a bunch of people that were coming out and saying This is not real. And that is the most infuriating thing for because everyone's average. everyone can connect with addiction, everyone could have this conversation, actually if you would come out. and I probably in that environment, obviously, it may that would there would have a different result because we r at each other's throat. No exactly. But that is what made people so angry. It was like nope. He never smoked extract. It wasn't real. The laptop is Russian propaganda. guys What is this? Yeah, by the way, Is it? Here's the problem is that Steve Bannon Sved and Rudard Giuliani saved the quote unquote laptop, which by the way is bullshit. if we can agree on that gaslighting, I will agree on the gasling of this is that Is it It was never a quote unquote. laptop. There was a hard drive o of Stolen. and hack material, wherever it came from, whether it came from a Delaware repair shop or whether it came like Leb Parna says from Dmitri Fertashi was trying to sell a hard drive under Biden's in Ukraine you know, that they were looking for before The laptop repair shop guy was ever to twinkle in the eye. Just go back and look at the record. Okaykay? So here's the thing is you're absolutely right and a and this is like the freedom of being able to say this is like, yeah, they should have let me go out and talk. Yeah. But it was two weeks before the campaign. And then and and then the the election was over. Steve Bannon goes on and with his buddy Go Um, you know, the Chinese billionaire that's now in prison and, you know, that is like a Chinese spy or whatever, you know, where he got arrested on his boat and all that the crap Is it There is it go listen to it. Go listen to the record it conversation in which they say The laptop, like we got them. We like, you know, so we put all we collected all the salacious pictures and we put them out there. And then Rudy went out and stood on the steps of the Newcastle County courthouse with Bernie Karrick and said, this contains child child exploitation. L your u, u, you know, I mean pure Bullshit Bllshit So on both sides, you have this reaction you know, which I don't think was necessarily a coordinated reaction in the sense that What do you do in two weeks? And so they come up with this and they say, and I don't get to go out and say, No. I was, but you know what I did? Is it Come April wrrite a book And I tell everybody But here's my story And here's what happened And here is all of the rooms that no one would ever want to admit to being in that I was in And uh And And it was like a blip on the radar because everybody was now fighting about whether there was kind of a suppressed story on Twitter and whether there was a this gaslighting from, you know, by the way, I am not here to defend Anny And then it's part of like the political machine where they're like, we have two weeks to go to the election. We're going to do this denial, you know, because we can't afford this right now, essentially. And so and then we're gonna table this, make it past these two weeks. And then by that time, first and foremost, rather won. right? So you know, And so people are angry. They feel like the election's been stolen And that there was this entire collusion to cover a laptop, which if it was on the other side, they may have done too. This is what DC is, it's politics. But that is where I think the anger came from. And it was just like, I got it, how dare you gas at us? And then people then start making you this focal point of It not had anything to do with me. Right It was bigger than you at that point. You know what the laptop proved that you were crackhead There you go. by the all this other bullshit. bribery and all these other things that they investigated up and down during the Trump administration, with a Trump appointed US attorney, with the Trump appointed U.S attorney, the only US attorney in the country to stay on and continue to prosecute me, who then became special counsel after I got a plea deal because I paid my taxes late And I paid them with penalties and interest, and I owned a gun for eleven days while they say I was addicted That's it Everybody has all the information. It's not like the Department of Justice has the my digital footprint in every text message, every email. There's not a single one. in which you would find that that that would anyway supports the really serious accusations of enriching my father enriching himself somehow or none of it, none of it's there I own Whatever you want to call it. I own a laptop Come, you know what? we can go through it together If you're willing to like avert your eyes to the to tragedy of addiction just the absolute tragedy of it Yeah. Mayo man We have not there is no space for that in discourse anymore. There's no space for the nuance of, you know, well, that was addiction, that wasn't corruption You know? did that do? An business through an entire four years I became a painter. You know why? I became a painter becausecause it literally saved my life. I painted my whole life. and Melissa instinctively knew that I literally needed to like occupy my hands in early recovery like twelve hours a day you know, like to be able to focus on the not the refreshing weight of the consequences of years of addiction And so I just sat and I paint it and I paint it and I paint it And I decided to have a show in the gallery And you know, and offer my paintings for sale And the New York Post comes out and says Hunter Biden is selling his paintings for a half a million dollars. I had never sold a painting nor offered a painting for a half a million dollars in my friaking life And by the way, everybody knows this Because every painting that I sold, everybody that bought a painting had to pay about a quarter million dollars to defend themselves before an impeachment hearing. Go read the transcripts of people under oath But regardless, is this is the laptop absolutely proved nothing, but it became this Haty touchstone. it was like bodied Biden crrime family. And if you wanted to be able to belieelve that notot wanted to be able to believe that. If you believe that because you're being told that people that you trust have told you that your election was stolen You're Democracy was thwarted. the process was unfair Is it? All you had to do And I get this. is look at the pictures It doesn't look like a good guy to me 'cause you weren't a good guy in the pictures. No Yeah. smoking crack in a motel room with prostutes. Right. you know what I mean? Like they come out and like they're saying o, like this I admit it all, not only admit it all, I own it all I will I will own everything The worst of it, all of it This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a fifty page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online makes sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check Responssees set upp required compatibility and availability varies eighteen plus And then being like I mean now in retrospect and things have changed. I mean, times have changed. likeike I said, I was One of the chief people that was really angry about it and it did that was the exact reason why whenever I re examined it, was the gaslighting. It's the same reason why I'm angry with Trump over the Epstein thing. It's like, I can't come back from media gaslighting. The Trump thing is worse because it came from his own mouth. the gaslighting. so it wasn't like people trying to cover it up. It was like Trump being like, what Epstein files? Are we still talking about the Epstein files? so But then things kind of change, I think with time also because I was very definitely say I was close with Don Jr. traveled a lot with him through the Hunter Biden laptop scandal. We talked about it, this corruption d d, can't be they denied. All all these photos coming out. And then we get whatever this you know family is now. and it's like, man, I think it was a historian that wrote on X exactly how I feel, which is I wish I could go back to the days where I thought like Hunter Biden's art was the most corrupt deal that was done in politics. and now we're going, okay, You know, we stood behind Trump, we fought, we shared the photos of Hunter Biden to the extent that we could. and now we have their family engaged in so many corrupt deals, the meme coins, the taking advantage of people, and you go, okay, well, what we actually have is DC is corrupt. Politics is corrupt. And I think it is kind of a unifying point not to excuse the gaslighting of people for two weeks, which made people super angry. But I do think it's just a different time where people are kind of going back and examining and I feel actually terrible realizing that you were finally clean and then it's just this humiliation ritual over and over and over again of people putting everything out there and not realizing also your kids are facing this consequence as well, which people do not think about a lot of times when they publish stories. even was reticent and didn't cover the Chrisy Nome thing because the first thing that came to my mind they kids These are kids.ike I'm like these kids are about to go to college. And so and why are they doing this? Because she's in politics, right? And so this becomes they don't think about the children And Yeah, I mean, I think I now now that I have kids too, I think there's just like, wow, they don't sign up for what I do for podcasting. kids don't sign up for that kind of stuff. Yeah, you know Number one, kids are way more resilient than than you think so much tougher And, uh, and I know, um that my girls And they love me and play it And I can one hundred percent and return it with everything that I have to offer. But you're You know, Part of what you're describing politics. Imemorium, you know Part of it, but something's changed in this There is a meanness Um a willingness to adopt. I'm very, very un American U tactics Um against our opponents because it become a zero sum game It's not just that I disagree with you It's You need to be punished You need to be punished for what you believe. You know, there's this incredible show I really want to meet them one day You've probably I don't know if you listen it to it's A the necessary conversation. Have you listened to that Incredible. Brother and sister who are progressives. One lives in LA and like one lives in Austin He something like that and she runs up Bree sister and a mom and dad and they are Ultra Mga and I think they werere like in Missouri somewhere And I mean, like, Don't take their caps off Trump literally can do no wrong playing for D chess on the Epstein thing. the, you know, I know he said no war in Rand, but, you know Uh, he must have a reason for it and you can't convince like literally the but they have this conversation They have real issues with each other. L the daughter gets really mad at dad. likeike Dad, you were a jerk to us when we were kids, you made me. but then she has this conversation with her mom who loves animals. about empathy and they would adopt all, you know these animals. They would and you find out like her dad taught, you know, or coached all of their little League games and she was a softball player. And if a kid couldn't like afford the uniform, dad would quietly go out And by the and he's awful on this thing, by the way. like he' like he's and in terms of the way that he speaks and it speaks to them and he's like tough and I don't get I don't give a shit and you know, drop a bom on him kind of, you know, But it's so informative Is it before That's a normal family Thing before You and I could meet at a restaurant in Georgetown and your husband and my wife and we could have dinner together And it like with Tucker. I knew Tucker. You know what I mean? And u And You could have dinner together and think that what Tucker was saying was crazy and I don't agree with. And I don't agree with, you know, half the stuff But you know what it didn't mean It didn't mean that I thought that he should be tried for treason and executed. And that's what happened to me And I mean that not figuratively, I mean, it literally, that's what people were saying. and that's what people of real importance were saying Th were the words that were coming out of the mouse and I'm paraphrasing of people like U like Steve Bannon and people like Rudy Giuliani, people of authority And it changes everything is how can you even have a discussion, for instance, how could I go out and talk about Yeah How could I respond? Was that cocaine mine? Like what do you you want me take a drug test? Because I'm taking a drug test almost weekly for the Department of of Corrections and probation You know, I have a probation officer I'm on release Ault trial. You know, but what do you do? Do you is that the statement that you make to the New York Post, it's impossible becomes impossible So what do you do You realize this And I don't know if you feel this way in your own life. Is that you know what the real problem is It's not out there. It's not that person. If I could just get Steve Bannon to tell the truth, if I could just get Rudi Giuliani to stop lying about me, if I could just get Constantine Kulak to say that he wrote if I like it's not there. You realize in order to survive is all inside E single piece of it is about Figure out how to love yourself not live in that shame And in order for you to be able to be of service. First Melissa return Beautiful thing that she gave me, which was a chance be of service to my dad the return, the unconditional love, which is not love without consequences, not love without accountability. It's just knowning that no matter what, even through the consequences and being held accountable, that person still loves me. All right, you guys, when I think about the future, I picture the little moments that matter most, familyamily dinners, bedtime stories, lazy Sundays at home, the people that we love are the center of everything that we're building. 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So get your free instant quote today at etthhos. com slash candas Again, that's E T h os dot com slash Candas Alication times and rates may vary. I also want to tell you guys about Native Path because this episode is brought to you by Native Path's grass fed Colleagen for better bones, joints, skin, hair, and nails Have you noticed that your skin is losing some of its glow, Maybe your nails and your hair are feeling weaker, or that it's easier to tweak a joint or pull a muscle. Well right around age thirty, our bodies start producing less collagen every year. and by the time most people reach sixty, they've lost about half That's why I used Native Path Collagen. It was created by Chad Walding, a doctor of physical therapy who spent years trying to find a clean collagen supplement for his patients. And when he couldn't, he decided to make one himself The label has one ingredient with no fillers, no additives and is third party tested. It only takes ten seconds to add to my routine and it dissolves instantly in any beverage. So if you want stronger nails, healthier looking skin, less joint discomfort, and even improved DexA scans, go to getnativepath dot com slash Candas right now. There's a special discount plus free shipping from our listeners today Again, that's get nativepath dot com slash Candas I think that was also what came across in your interview with Andrew Callahghan where after I watched it, I think It sort of edited my opinion about that relationship between your dad because I think Since the laptop scandal, in my mind, it was it was, I guess a bit cartoonish where it was like, well, you can whatever you want. You had smoke crack. We know were just powerful. We'll cover. You know, we'll do it like, that's the c like whatever, we have so much power. We've acquired so much power. And then when I sort of saw you really defending your dad over this George Cly thing, I was like, okay, this is just a normal father, son relationship. L peopleople can't apply that for some reason when you're talking about a president or somebody that has access to power, but he just loves his dad. And this is the way any normal person would defend their dad if they said something about your father, if they said something about your son This is so normal that I think that's what was a bit restresting for me. I was like, this is very normal dynamic. He doesn't care if Jake Tapper is on his side. He doesn't care if Tor Clooney is on his side. That's his dad that you're talking about. and he's having a natural reaction that I would have if someone was talking about my dad, my grandparents, my sister my cousin, even even when they do something wrong by the way, like, it's like, o, but, like, that's my family member who did something wrong.. And and so you have no right and I will I will breathe fire on someone. And that's kind of and you're right. and now it's getting irer, The games people are playing are dirtier and it is about wanting you to feel unsafe. And I think that is something that is so new when you have people posting your address, posting where you are, knowing that you have children. Yeah, I really do and it is over perspective. Like for me, it was me changing my mind on Israel And suddenly I'm getting the New York Post treatment. And I'm getting all these people coming after me. and I'm going, this is my perspective. You're welcome to try to debate me on why I feel the way I feel about which is because I have two eyes about what's happening in Gaza. but to do these tactics where you're trying to destroy people is that feels very, very new to me. Yeah. And let's be let's be honest, I hate that phrase I got it from my perspective is this. I know where that started And that started when ald Trum from Rally stages started Awareres hunter yele, where is Hunter Pall in response, Brse T shirts and then they made hats and then they made mugs Where is Hunter? And then they showed up my door. I didn't have any security. I didn't have anybody. I can't afford that in my life, particularly at that time And they literally showed up in my door with bullhorns and Magga Hatchs and on the direct and the way that they got there is As New York Post published onn the front page On its cover the aerial view of my home with the address. and then in the things said and you if you stand here at this, you know, on this part of the street, you can see and there are four ceiling windows and, you know, and so they They showed up. Wow. And Aelisssa was Six months pregnant at the time You know, She got in the car because she was alone at the time. Bed off and they followed her and they ran her off the road You know, she panicked And then, you know, she got and they did it again and they surrounded her. and That's new, man. That is new And like similar to you, is it like beforefore I sat down I heard where you live, what your the level of security that you have or didn't have and you know, what your perimeter of your property is like. How the hell do I know that And how is that even remotely safe Because you have people E now you're you basically spoke your truth and they decided that you cannot exist. And so therefore, I don't know what's going to happen. but for some reason, I think it's appropriate for me to say tell you what Candace's address is. Wh lives there in the level of security Tem school doing that was one of the most It was so obvious that he was doing. My dad said to me, is I have to stop saying the F wor. No. But it was L seriously, that to me was like it's a declaration of war. Like they know I homchool my kids, they know and he's describing the security apparatus and he's doing it in this rant, trying to be impassionate about the fact that I don't support Israel where I don't support whatever his whatever his motivation was There is zero reason that you would be describing the perimeter of my house oututside of wanting someone to get harmed. And like first of all, like I'm not like Tucker Carlson and I save people all the time. That's why I get so worried because when Tucker gets accosted in public, he just has this like total happy warrior demeanor, I will claw someone's eyes out for my kids. Like I am not the property to try. We will shoot you. Like I will shoot you and I will kill you and I will happily go to prison Before you have one opportunity to even make, I don't I even to think about where they're going to hurt. sound exactly like. And's that's me. That's just me.. I've said over and over on my podcast, I will smile in my mugshot, okay? because I did the right thing and I have no qualms about that. So when he did that, I was like, okay, this little beanie boy, okay, little beanie boy. I see exactly what you're doing. The whole world sees what you're doing. and you are doing something that because you want my children to get harmed And then if something happens to them, you're going to go, I don't know how that happened as I was describing the perimeter of her home and talking about what her security is, which was in accurate. K but' that's What are we even talking about? That's exactly why they do it. Is that even if the chance is this small The reason that they do it is exactly that is to is to make you really afraid, not for yourself or you four kids for your family or' the people that work around you It's like and by the way, I'll tell you Is it I have the same approach that I think Tucker has to it which is then I don't know. is which is basically like I can hand it like diffuse a situation, I can do it Melissa People kill you. Yeah, I'll kill you. and I'll ask questions later. And she did exactly the same. And you know what really worries me? is that is that is All of a sudden we're all talking about Violence. L you're talking about violence. Violence is defense, but now you're talking about the violence. And then they kind of like go, o You're gaslighting us. This is bullshit. You don't you're fine. Youre really rich and you this and that, you can take care of yourself. It's like bullshit. Did you see what just happened to my best friend? Yeah. L I mean, just you tal Chlie and he had a full security apparatus. Yeah. We still don't know what happened to Charlie Kirk. There's zero interest. and that's another thing that just completely for me was like done with Trump whatsoever. Like I means there's just no way for someone who came from the inside and watched the work Charlie did to get these people elected. Don Jr. was like a brother to Charlie, literally like a brother to him. to see The Trump brothers to see Donald Trump himself, Cash Patel, who Charlie pushed for him to lead the FBI, had him on his podcast. JD Vance like you know, came out of nowhere. Charlie was like not sleeping to make that happen. And to see all of these people have zero interest in the envious holes in the story, even if Ultimately, the holes get filled and there's a picture that makes sense, which that a zero percent chance. But let's just, you know, the fact that they have zero interest and they're just accepting the narrative Like what this has done to me and I've said this, I'm just done with politics. I'm just done with politics because I can't even begin to comprehend it. And again, that element of gaslighting that's happening here where they're pretending that the people who are noticing that none of this is making sense are the crazy ones and everyone else who's like, no, turn the chapter a week later. It's all solved. And this is how it went down and none of it makes sense, but just accept this slop It is the most infuriating thing and it's just fully removed the scales of my eyes. and I've stopped with this left versus right, Democrat versus Republican. I'm like, this is Sheer evil versus good B the way this is like sheer evil. By the way, we real Exactly. exactly. it is, it is. Good. versus evil. Yeah It did the they they have Trn the mask off of this I said to you before is that I pray to God by the end of this, that you think of me as a friend because if anything ever happened to me, I want you. You enlisten team up. you'd f. Like Oh my God. it's not happening with Charlie Kirk. And the criticism of you for asking the questions for someone who was like a brother to you,' like what the F are you talking about That's the guy talking about. how dare you hear Heared from someone who you've attacked and you've and Politically, you've know had all of your criticism, which Id have no problem with and we disagree on so many things. I listen to you and I go Right on Epstein, like you want to figure out why they don't want to look the release all the Epstein files. All you got to do is literally look at a picture of Trump standing on his stage at his inauguration and look behind him Yeah. It's like every single person He's protecting his donors without question. I mean, it's crazy. L Palo and Poli and this and that and the other thing and all of these things's like, okay. And by the way, Anyway, my point is is yeah,'s like when is it when are people kind of kind of wake up to the fact and it's not left or right This is a really, really horrible group of people. They arere plling strings U that impact us all and they make us think becausecause you and I disagree on, you know, the graduated tax rate. or some social issue is that we are sworn enemies. I mean, not just, you know, like with sworn enemies. that I deserve violence. And I could see them, and it does seem like both sides have woken up without question. My audience is now split. and I still say I believe. I haven't changed my position on abortion. I'm Catholic. there's nothing that has changed. I think they're just hearing me for the first time. And I do think there was something about the Charlie Kirk assassination everyveryone just sort of looked up. You know, we just sort of all looked up at the machine and we was like, wait a second What is this? Be they expected Trum to be right or die. they expected cash, Wow, this is going to be solved in the clearest way possible because the entire political apparatus that has the power and the Department of Justice is in the hands of Charlie Kirk's friends. Like that was how I felt, right? This is it. No, whoever did this is never going to get away with it because these are Charlie's friends and we People that Charlie Kirk made. Charlie Kirk made these people. That's exactly right. leta a you Revolution to get these people elected in power. He was ride or die to the level of disloyalty M or fear. I don't know what it is. Disloyalty is is loyalty maybe guided by fear, but it's loal it's disturbing. And I cannot, I can not forgive Trump The Trump family God they have done or what they have not done for Charlie. Could I keep one of these? Yeah first. Yeah And I'm full on. and I'm like, callall me a conspiracy I'm like you where I'm like that what is the shame tactic of the day? You're calling me a conspiracy, That's great. I'm like you'd be a fool to believe us up that they're telling us today. The stories are telling us I mean, it's it is something that is just so disturbing. and I think that the Charlie assassination has just so crazy, like because he was so Republican, conservative, but I think it's brought people together in a productive way. Yeah lookook,m I'm here. and you're here. and the, um I really think We're not unique. you know, I think very, very kind of emblematic is that like past, you know, not behind us, like I'll explain anything you want. I'll talk about anything that you want to talk about that you still have questions about or that anybody is But like This isn't right This We we're witnessing right now is not right. The level of corruption, the obfuscation, the I mean whether it's Butler or Charlie or Ugler because these things that that It's just not right. And I mean it's so glaringly not right. It's almost as if they're just saying F F you. They don't they're not even try here. like we don't even know what Sciops anyore and that's why I keep saying I'm like they're so disrespectful that we're not even getting good side ups anymore. Like we're supposed to believe he survived What do we have four assassination attempts the first president that's ever survived four assassination attempts. They quietly, they lie to us about things, they make a big deal and then they make it want to, you know, it's going to go away. They're going to keep pretending and telling us that this is a totally normal grieving widow, okay. No one's buying that. like something's just not right here. Everyone can see that. This is not how you would react to your husband being shot and this sort of just, I'm fine. and I like two weeks later, I fully accept a narrative. I have no interest in anything else it's over. let's close it. I forgive him. Let's move on you're asking us to abandon our common sense and our humanity is what you're asking us to do. and there're kind of seems like where we're at, like they're insisting on this. and I'm going, where is this going to go? Be We're not doing the thing they want us to do. Like they're just constantly giving us slop all the time. I mean, even the recent White House correspondence dinner, there was so much theater to it after so much theater and now it's kind of, okay, seecret Service maybe shot each other and we're just gonna to kind of quietly move on, But Trump needs a ballroom. Like that's a normal reaction. Hey, there's a shooting duck. we better get that ballroom? By the way, it's going to cost a billion dollars now And by the way, it's not from donors. And by the way, we're going to do it. like it's just like it's just the constant Talk about gaslading It's been this has been just this and we're not even are we even a year into Trump's second term? We're a little over year A little over year in a second. And I don't think there's just been I'm like, how are we going to deal with four years of just being gaslit every five seconds and told that MAGa, literally MAGa is not MAGA anymore. and what was actually never Trump, which was actually pro Hillary Clinton, if you think about it, that's now MAGa. It's literally people who have been against Trump the entire time who are lecturing us about this stuff, like the Mark Leins the Ben Shapiros and like where MagGa and the Laura Lomers, likeike, you know, where Maga now? Okay, great, then I'm not MAGa. Like I am I've never agreed with these people. I am opposed to these people's ideas. I am opposed to unleashing an actual lunatic who has had to be Baker acted and put on psych fifty one fifty holds by her own parents who fear her. I'm opposed to that actually, being unleashed upon the population.is always she's at fifty one hundred fifty. some She's that person's going to get fifty one fifty., what are you talking about? What's fifty one fifty? like you're telling us this is Baga now. like this is what we do So it's been it's been a challenging time because you do have to have like the humility to admit. I'm quite embarrassed. canan it. The President of the United States of America has posted images of himself as a king I think half a dozen times now. Yeah. like When we when when are people going to wake up and go, okay, That's what you want. And by the way, if that's what you want, then you know what? I know that there is a that there is a vast majority of Americans, but some that are really gonna really, really have a problem. Yeah. reallyally have a problem. I am. God forbid And this whole thing is it We all need allies now becausecause they do have an enormous amount of power. You know, one of the things that I always think about is is that it's so easy to silence people, but it would be particularly easy for instces to go. likeike if if someone like the whole cocaine in the White House thing And by the way, I look at that your famies. Is it I you can believe whatever you want to believe I know my truth And That's all I can do. And you'd prefer crack anyways A hundred percent. Okay. And I would not just oh by the way I would not have I would not have forgotten it Cubby if' crawling on going to the situation room, which I've never been in before. Okay. Eactly. I mean, Jesus Christ. anyway, but my point is is that what if they you know, what if I'm flying back to LA and you know, or and I go through security and they find drugs in my bag? Who would believe me that I'm clean and silver, Who would possibly believe me No one. No one. No one And I could take drug tests and I could prove it and I could, you know, I mean, literally, I pack my bag in front of a witness everywhere I go so that at least I would be able to say that Here's the crazy part Is it idea I would Think that there is a government in power capable of doing that. says everything anyone needs to know about where we are. Yeah. The idea You feel unsafe. In the United States of America because You disagree with the current administration on a issue seventy percent of Americans agree with you on I think we all can agree is that we need to stop the wholesale murder of a population in Gaza. I, you know, whatever you think about my father's, um u Um policy as it relates I always say to people, you know one thing he you didn't do? I didn't green light a to turn Gaza into a Trump golf course, you know, with the major D being Jared Kushner with his four billion dollars in Saudi money. It's despicable. Itp It's like they did the deal before. I mean, when he posted that I'll never forget that posted the Trump, like, here's Gaza could be and like I could have happen any in a building and I was like, but literally that's what they're doing. dead Children You're literally saying this is all going to be fine because we're going to get up a Trump resort or something P posositively despicable. I's just positively, despicable, tasteless, indefensible it's not at. it wasn't a joke and that is the deal. And that's what they're doing. Literally. And by the way, they're doing it out in the open. I mean, it's not as if they're hiding it in any way. I mean, they are making deals. as they go through. you know, like I always say to people, it's like, you had such a problem with me I didn't do anything I didn't take the paintings. I didn't do a single business. You know, every single person that bought a painting from me during the time my dad was there in office I had w shows probably sold a total of twenty paintings and teen of them. to my best friend and That's it That's it and you had a problem Not you Well, you too, had a problem with me as being this emblematic emblem of corruption These guys, okay Di and your the single largest loan guarantee from the Department of Defense ever handed out of over six hundred million dollars for an energy company, a fusion energy company, of which he has zero Zero experperience it they have gotten Jared Kushner who's never run a private equity fund, has now a four billion dollars private equity fund with eighty percent of the money coming from the Middle East. Of which he continues to raise as he is the ambassador at large on behalf of the Trump administration, not as a political appoee, but simply as a son in law of the president. to come to a peace deal of a war in Iran that they started that has cost the economy Billions and billions of dollars For war, nobody wanted that every president before them before him was pressured by the Israelis to get into in every single one, regardless what you think of them. from George from Jimmy Carter. President Reagan, Both of the bushes throughre Clinton through my dad said, you're out of your damn minds. And here's the reason why. this is what's going to happen So who benefits right now You know who benefits peopleople that are making trades O Billions of dollars on market manipulation that occurs. all it's literally out and open, but who's going who's going to you know Wh's You will not get to scream out of me. Like I' so far off the Trump chain piece post No, by the way and I'm not even saying it's embarrassing. But it is embarrassing. It is embarrassing because we got behind him as the answer to corruption. We thought he was going to be this outsider. You know, he's going to go to DC. he's going to drain the swamp. and then he became a lochess monster. you know? And so it's like, I don't know what it is about that swamp, but you get swimming in it and it's like people do this And yes, it has been for Israel, not to say that Trump wasn't pro Israel. Most presidents actually are pro Israel. When they go in there, and if they go anti Israel, they kind of end up dead But it's or they you know sort of get kicked out if you want to talk about Nixon and the scandal of Watergate, which I've revisited I think that that had a lot more to do with his shifting viewpoints. but that wasn't the issue. Like I was pro Israel generally speaking, not very educated about the topic. It's this level of corruption that you're talking about when you are willing to let real Americans be harmed. their day to day lives be harmed. They're suffering at the gas pump. The groceries are expensive, All at the so that you could further enrich. how much more money does this Trump family need? I mean like literally How much more money do you need like that you're going to allow this to happen? Don't you just want to have now the legacy of being a good president? I mean, this is, I' saying to you about like the cryptocurrency thing. I think there's incredible promise in cryptocurrency. I believe in the, you know meme token. I want to I'll do something one day to create a community and there's there's really good reasons to do it. There's really interesting ways and I know disagree. I just happen to be kind of like a rypto. I mean, just because of my understand I think it is incredible freedom in world in which we've been controlled by banks. So if you have the same problem that I have with big pharma banks and the Fed and these Like where does money come from kind of thing? Is it like I truly believe in what Satashi, you know, kind of the manifesto of Biccoin, but that's just me, regardless My point is is that they had such an opportunity.. had such an opportunity. I'll give you this Once you look at the consonspiracy. Go look up Y L and Alexander Spnoff They're the two principleal individuals that made the only claim that people hung their hat in in Congress and elsewhere as it relates to my dad and corruption bribery and stuff like that One of them is a fugitive from justustice, wanted by Interpol in the United States Gvernment, Gal Luft who is a former IDF u officer who is believed to be living in Israel as a fugitive. which Israelis will not help us locate And the other one is Alexander Sernov who is a known Israeli intelligence agent Those are the two people who was in a prison in the United States serving six years. and They can't find him. B prison can't find him in his prison in the prison He is on furlough But no one knows where he's been furloughed to withithin the only passport that he has is an Israeli passport There are forces. that I used to take, o, this is bullshit Have you ever read The Deil's chessoard. Yes. Alan Dulles, looking into the CIA, I read this book Chaos that then led me the devil's chessboard. It's actually on our list for to read for the book club. Yeah. Yeah M It'll knock you chaos. CIA, the Mantis st up, that was the one that knocked me. And I was like, what the heck is our government? What is going on?port And didn realize Anyway What the CIA is capable of, and you think it's all a conspiry And I think that's what they're fear of is that people have awakened to that. And so when they're kind of trying to throw red meat now, which you see them doing, the left, the right it's just not landing the same anymore because we just realize that there is a way passbard. That's why I in terms of the left, like you think I'm going to defend the um, u, the DC elite of the left Trust my dad. They when when when they saw their chance They did everything in their power to u to to push Push him You know why? Because she was never part of that club He was never part of the Epstein class. He lived in Delaware. Everybody that think you can think whatever want about my dad is that literally my dad never bought a stock or a bond because he made a commitment in nineteen seventy two when he was thirty years old after Watergate never to own a stock or a bond Ed did. My dad is the poorest person ever to enter the presidency. And the poorest person, not poorest. I mean he had money. He had wroteen and written the book and he'd done well, but the least amount of wealth entering the presidency in modern years since nineteen than anybody. And when he was in the United States Senate, he was not only the st man in the Senate not por again, he made over hundred and seventy thousand dollars on average over the course of forty five years of not just the Senate, but five hundred and thirty five members of Congress He was never a part of that club That's what I wish You knew. That's what I wish they knew And I am not here in any way to defend, you know, the the, you know, the DC elites of my own party I think that they're just as complicit in all this bullshit. No without question, like the Nancy Pelosiis, what's your What's your opinion on Kamala then Did you like her? Look like you didn't definitely., you know what? I did I don't want to say anything I don't I didn't know the vice president that well. Okay. You know I mean, I and And she was always nice to me personally And so that was my, you know You know, but I didn't have The other thing that people think that I was like living at the White House, I I literally didn't leave my home because it was really hard. to leave. I stayed you know, in the hill that I lived on until the fires came Uh, You know, that's that's where I was. I was with Bob and Melissa And um trying to make it through and not trying to make it through, thriving making it through would otherwise have seemed like a Horrible life. An any outsider' perspective So I'm not judging the question, but I don't want to shit on the ice pres because I have no reason to necessarily that she did nothing personal to you, She was nice to you. Never did anything personal to me.. I think that she is you know, so I I really don't machine stuff. Yeah, exactly. you know, I don't In terms of all of that stuff, I'm Uh, you know think I tough enough to realize that You know, that's part of When you get to politics at that level kind of I think have this misperception of me is that for fifty years I was a crack addict and I was that picture. You know? I mean, I went to Yale Hw S school. You know Gu serve in the Clinton administration I was chairman of the board of the US UN World Food Program, which was the largest humanitarian organization in the world. I served on sixteen boards before I ever joined the Bard of Barisma or anything U at Georgetown for I was, you know, taught of the Master's program of the School of Forest Service for four years. I actually didn't know that. Yeah, ye. And that was something that surprised me too, not to be rude, but I thought you were dumb. Because I don't know, maybe because Meghan McCain was on the view for too long or something. and I was like, here we go, just like rich political kids. L I mean, she is just she' just so dumb. and yet she's just always here. like they're just giving her stuff. And so I think there's also that perception where it's there kids aren't smart. And so I was kind of expecting it to be sort of a Meghan McCain. And then when I watched it, I was like, oh wait, he actually has he has brain cells which Why are they we remarkable that you didn't k them all off when you were on crraft? I told you before I think they got pickled the all the Mata That's what I was like is interesting. He's not a total idiot. So there is there are the stereotypes of rich kids who just keep getting handed all of these awards in life. I say to everybody is that if there's any ever anybody in the history of America that benefits from low expectations, it's me. is that people are like, Oh my God You aren't. You're not a complete Moron. You haven't pulled out your crack pipe yet. which is really crazy. but that gives you an idea by the way. of the level to which I was muted because they didn't want and you know, You have to subvert yourself to a machine to a certain degree. And like it wasn't up to me if I wanted to go out and like rail at the machine or rail it, you know, go on argue with Jake Tapper, you know, it would mar your dad? Yeah, because then I become even more of the story. But you give up Your voice in that way And it's incredibly emasculating And particularly when the Nam portrait that is being painted of you as a near dwell that never did anything in their life You want to talk about experience? L look at my goddamn resume ten times more experience and ten times more things And I know I am ten times more well read either one of the Trump boys regardless of what you think about them. Now you know what I can't do is that, I'm not a great shot You know And and I don't know anything about real estate. And I don't know anything about making money, and that's why I'm about, you know a few million dollars in debt And I don't, and I need to change that one around in some way at the age of fifty six The portrait that was painted on me has given me this incredible gift that I can walk into your house into your studio. and I guarantee that people afterwards are going to go I still think he's But my God, he's not, you know what canan you believe it? He didn't go do lines in the bathroom. That was my reaction when I watched Andrew Callan, I was like, wow, he's actually thought through his addiction. He's talking about the ritual.ike, this guy's not an idiot. And you're right, I guess you do benefit from having exceedingly low expectations But it was sort of, like you said, the first time you spoke. and of course you did sort of have to be quiet because otherwise you would have definitely hurt your father and there's a machine that's kind of bigger than you that you have to say the braid was there. You can tell I even went back. my dad just said, honey, that was that was really beautiful parts of it you have to use it. the efford that much. I think Coming from you Wh the thing about my dad though is he, uh EM At least from the differentive, would he never talked to us that way. ever, like around or around my mom. where, you know Anyway, so I'm trying to curb the F wor. for my mom and dad. 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Again, that's eight hundred seven nine five twelve ten or visit American fininancing dot net slash Owens. Again, that's American fininancing dot net slash Owens American Financing America's home for home loans. How old were you, by the way when when your mother died in a car accident? Just about three. I was a month away from three, B was a month away from four my sister Aspy was about eighteen months And u who my oldest daughter is named after, Naomi. and And u Do you have any memory of her Yeah, you know, I it's a, u I don't know. for certain whether the Things that I have, which I believe are memories are memory because it would be very rare Uh, at that age. I I I haven't memories of my. My mom carrying us around in picnic baskets. and um, and I even have a, uh distinct memory of the car, not the accident Yeah But I don't know if it's because I've been steeped in stories You know, the beautiful part likeike everything. there's a have you ever read any of the um The Gnostic gospels You know, the them you really should because I know you're I've listened to you talk about your Catholicism and your faith and I'm like a toddler in the faith, and there's so much. It's like so rich. So it's really cool. One of the things that I Yeahh I've always been a student of becausecause when I first went to Georgetown two closest people after I got goownward Two Jesuit priests. One was named Ted Disiak, and another one was Bill Watson. And both Father Watson and Father Diziac led me into this idea of service. was I started, I think called the Jesuit International volunteers with A watching? I mean, excuse me, foughtt a DZiac and then I went to to the JBC because of Father Watson, which is like the domestic Pice Corps that for year. And then when I open up my own law firm my all my clients were universities because I was friends with presidents of the universities that were just like five or six years older than me. You know, they were now becoming residents of St. Joosee's and Granton and Loyola and all these Jesu universities it Mer And um But anyway, the Nostic Cospels, the Gnostic Cospels We' at They were found Mj hommony and they were written in the period between Christ's death and the first two centuries. And there's the Gospel of Thomas Gospel of Philip and Constantine boring the he? No, I'm very intedstantine Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity at the end. But what he did and really what it was about was not a true transformation of faith. It was a way to consolidate power So he made the the Christian Um, uh, Bishops you know, two hundred years into the the very, very early church He made Christian bishops is lieutenants and enforcers as it related to the religion. so that he can control the more radical elements of it. And so That is when they and adoption of just for Gspel And there's all of these other writings that became that you could get excommunicated for U 's really beautiful really beautiful portraits like the Gospel of Mary Magdalen and Jesus' relationship with Mary Magden Anyway And it's not a gospel, but it is one of the texts. I think it's called The Acts of John There is a thing that Christ says and he says I'm paraphrasing, you You must learn to suffer as I do in order be able not to suffer and that Greatest lesson is not having gratitude for all the good things in my life for having an immense gratitude all of my life I wouldn't be here We could't have this honest conversation I couldn't get to know you as a human being if every single thing didn't occur behind it. I would not feel this this gift of being alive on a daily basis the way that I do if I hadn't Ocome Mitting suicide. Dozens of times in motel rooms places that can never afford to be found dead. No and is That Peace of life On way I got it is when they we're off. all my clothes Tart and feathered me and put me in the center of town and said, look at him And I survived When you survive that You kind of go, what am I going to do with my life Well, number one thing I want to do with my life is number one, take care of me Yeah. You take your I feel like I have to say like I'm really sorry that I contributed to that. Like I just feel really shinny. like I feel guilty because like hearing you talk about I mean, basically having the worst moments of your life like I always speak about on my show how A lot of these kids growing up, aren't gonna even know what it was like before social media where you could just make a mistake and like have that be over. And you got to grow up and now it's like they're digging and they're finding people's tweets from when they're seventeen, they're idiot. They wrote the NN word once and they like want to hang them when they're forty And u I just I just saw you as a caricature and it was it was definitely Like I said, feeling gaslit by the political machine, convinced that it was just the left that partic Park took in this political machine. And I just like really want to say like genuinely like I'm so sorry that I just didn't even consider he's a crackhead. and like, you know, like that's actually a very relatable thing and he shouldn't be You know, like to have that is just unbelievable to consider every worst thing. I am like I told you before we started, I cry very easillily. But I do I just feel like's not who I want to be. and I think I've I've come a long way from that in general. and takeen just the inhumanity of just look at this guy at the worst moment of his life, like with prostitutes, he's on crack, he's on drugs, and we should make fun of him because it makes us feel good or it makes us feel like we're somehow beating the machine and that it was, I think, a really warped viewpoint and hearing you Th about it today, I'm just like, wow, you' so gross that I partect you. have so much, and I mean this in a good way So much power. because I think audience Absolutely. And the reason that they trust you is because you've shown an enormous amount of courage U spepeaking your mind particularly as it related to someone that you love like a brother and Everything that has transpired since then. which is A Immediate rejection of power and immediate rejection of knowing It you were just going to get The shit be out of you and for you to say that to me, Truly mean it. Just from a purely selfish point of view, it means the world U And that and I didn't I truly didn't come here for that. I came here because you know what? I has forgiveness every day Um without any expectation that I will be forgiven I know the people that I hardt And, you know, and I still do and I'm not even remotely Perfect And and I still screw up and you know and God, if We have this conversation and genuinely authentically believe that I think just opens the door for and a few other people. without being, you know, with all humility, maybe You know, maybe a few other people. And there is a freedom in it too. Like there's a freedom that your worst moments have just been Yeah, there's nothing else What are you going to say? Yeah, you know what I mean? You got me button naked up with with a crack pipe. So I mean, there's I survived it and so you have it and ye it allows you to kind of return to who you are because it's, you know, addiction is Yeah. I wouldn'tish should I always say like, you know, people growing up and seeing what it's done to families and seeing a lot of stuff when I was younger like really made me like again I'm like, wow, I can't even imagine. Imagine if you could talk about it. Imagine if you could have openly talked about it and the person that you were confronting or doing it is like were're able to say This is, you know Like we got to do something about this. Come on everybody. let's do something about it I want to start an after care program for people for free because the biggest thing that happens is people go to detox And they go to recovery center. ourur rehab And they get out after thirty days and they got nowhere to go And so one of the things that I'm trying to do is start a free after care program. And there's a couple. There's one in Kentucky that is a really beautiful model If I could do that, you know, I' work with an organization called BSa Universal. I'm the development director there. and they do tenants' rights and u, And u and homeless prevention I know what we all can agree on We can all agree on that you know that people can't afford to pay the rent and they be able to figure out a way to stay to stay in their houses before it becomes a mother with three kids as are homeless. We know where that leads These kinds of things is what I want to use what I'm doing. like I want like I want to do that. I also want to make a living. I also want to do that. I also want to be able to pay my debt I also want to be able to do the things and you know, I have a, you know You know, I also still want to make art. you know, uh, you know, I I started, um And finally like, you know what? I'm going to put all my art on my website and people can come look at it. if they want to buy it, they can buy it. because I don't really believe art becomes art until you share it with somebody. I mean, like until there's an observer of it But I can you know, I can sit in my my my Studio, which is my garage. I want to do all of those things, and I want to be able to do it and I want to be able to talk to you You know what I mean? I want to be able to talk to the people. I want to talk to family, necessary conversation and say to the mom like The stories your daughter tells you about the way that you that animals It really moves me that you think I'm the spoone of the devil We maybe have a discussion about it. you know Yeah, it's a caricature Yeah. And I have and I have a caricature of me that's been built up for years. so I should have been more empathetic to it, honestly, but it's when you're in it, you kind of don't really know that you're in it, I think. Well, not only in it, is that you're in it to win it And when everything is put in a political lens and life or death and you know If we lose this election the, you know, this is over and these, you know, now I tell you this is that we've never had somebody that is You know Iose staying longer than supposed to But regardless is it I think that we all have a tendency to um to look at the time that we live in. and say that it's worse than ever. abbsolutely worse And the fact of the matter is is if like you, if you you know your history Is it like This is a cycle. Um, uh will always be really bad people. We will always be disappointed in the end with leadership. We will always have corruption. It doesn't mean that we need to accept it. It doesn't mean that we don't need to fight against it. It doesn't mean that sometimes really good people make the wrong choice Um What it does mean is that I have absolute hope I've really truly I still believe in America, even with all of the in the All of its u Bals I mean even after reading the Devil Chestbard Like, you know, you read that and you go like And that's not about Democrats and that's not about Republicans And if you go back and you go back to recconstruction You go back to Andrew Johnson, you go back to like the U, you know, the fact that the United States of America has not had it was not has not been truly the United States of America until, you know, nineteen sixty four and This whole thing, but I still really believe And The illusion thing that makes me so mad is They have completely for way That illusion and people feel hopeless. They feel like there's no chance of changing it. Okaykay, they gave this guy range to do it And he was the one was going to blow everything up and make it better for everybody. They're kind of like Wait a second. What happened to Charlie Wait a second Why are we at more again You know, I think this is actually the most important question and I will make this my final question I want to ask you, but I'm really interested about your faith life You're Catholic, you' raised Catholic. I went to Catholic school and like is you're talking to me about the Gnostic Ospe. Let's you and I go see the Pope together. I' love to do that. Seriously. I think he's a little mad at America right now. No, but you and I He's been I was tweeted the same day as the Pope by the way by Trump when he said bad things about me. For real. let's go to the Vatican. I would love to I was theoolest place in the world. love I just got back from Italy. I was there two yearsks ago. Yeah. did I did my confirmation. Well Oh, you did. I did. it was just the most beautiful. That's so cool. Unbelievable. Yeah. It was literally the same day that Trump posted the time most vile person of the year. So I felt like there was even in that, there was something divine because it was like looking at fake power and then the real power of like having, you know a cardinal, getting confirmed being in Italy, the deep history, like what outlasts that? Like there was something so fickle about it, like posting this photo of me when I was sick, Okay, great. Um wait, hold on al about humiliating people for sport. Somebody literally sent this to me right before I came into you. They knew that I was going to talk to you I promise you I did not plan to do. No, you're so fine It was a prayer. If you are wise and understand God's ways, prove it by living an h honorable life, goodood works. the humility that comes from wisdom If you are bitterly jealous And there's selfish ambition in your heart truth posting and lying where jealousy and selfishness are not God's kind of wisdom Such things are earthly uspiritual and demonic or wherever there is jealousy and selfish ambition there you will find disorder and evil of every kind . piece of that when you were just talking is what's my faith If you are wise and understand God's ways, prove it by livering. an honorable life. thing that I recognized is that her mother Tereresa I don't go to math as much as I used to going to mass every Sunday, I would never would miss a mass. You know, I went to Georgetown What I realize is that my real faith is in that belief Do the next right thing Let's st whether it's the golden rule and That doesn't mean you have to be weak in your empathy, but always be compassionate. I believe in the perennial philosophy I believe that same exact message fromr the Apolish ads T uh the Gospels to Jesus Christ all at base in terms of the red letter words of each of them are saying the same thing Love your neighbor you would want to be loved and It's the hardest thing in the world to do So hard. That's my faith and And I think that there are certain people that arrive at certain times that are messengers of that am U For instance, I certainly don't agree with the Catholic Church on a lot of stuff. I certainly have a But I tell you what, I really am so proud of Pope Francis and now Pope Leo. in terms of just the notion of social justice Um, and, uh, and I think that there can be a practical application of that. in terms of our leadership, I really do. I think that that faith that is used as a cudgel is Really, really dangerous think that Um I know a lot of people that I personally love and very close to that are part of an evangelical church particularly in the African American community that are u Terrified I licity of a certain section of the evangelical church and what's happening in the world today. o me, my faith is very personal. wasving in in It's rooted in Catholicism. Uh then it's rooted in Society of Jesus, the Jesuit Church in particular, which I, you know, they used to always call the Black Pope until we finally got a Jesuit Pope, you know And with with the eyes wide open too, that the church is as as an institution is incredibly flawed and had been, but it u But it, uh giving me an enormous sense of community and belonging just from a cultural perspective Well I'm going to say is I really think you should go to confession. You should do that. Oh, I don't worry, I've been to confession. go to conffession and get, you know, and ks Yeah and just, you know, just one hundred percent. Yeah, donon't worry. Go back to the root G back to the root and you know, here's here's the there' so much there and it's like You're not. You know, you're just not enough, yourour brain's not enough. I mean, hearing you describe that, I can do this. There is just something about for me, like the submission that every mass and just remembering like The beautiful thing. Yeah. Be beautiful is this Beautiful thing is that I 've been going to confession six years Wow L here As me. You know, I like that freedom You know, what use feel like the only person that you could say this to You know, and I'm not saying that there is not like, My impurest thoughts that I'm, you know That's between me and God, but I am saying is that feeling of release that the confessional is therefore is the feeling that when I was finally able to see beyond all of the noise that I received but just existing. and getting up every day And looking In and over I seen it My wife And uh Boy And my dad Dad Not as present, but just as it that and my mom and my sister and my aunts and uncles and everybody else and then the wider circle My friend George You know, my friend Frannie,, you know, I mean, my friend Bobby, I like people that who came into my life and It never left and desespite at all And there was nothing in it for them, but just grief and Ridicle Pretty cool It's everything