Bandwagon Fans and Etiquette

Migo presents a thirty second podcast between your podcast Today's story is shared by one of our listeners. It's called Betrayed by Bill It was in that moment I caught who was staring back at me in betrayal, or more like what My insurance bill. And with trembling hands I grabbed my phone and switched to Geio, saving about nine hundred dollars in the process, and never to be betrayed again Now that was bloody riveting. It feels good when the story ends with savings. It feels good to Gaiko This is a Monday. com ad, the sameMonday. com helping people worldwide getting work done faster and better. The same Monday. com designed for every team and every industry. The sameMonday. com with built in AI, scaling your work from day one the same Munday. com that your team will actually love using The same Monday. com with an easy and intuitive setup. Go to Monday. com and try it for free. Yes, the same Monday. com Hey Isabella, have you been following this you Row Kelsey stuff on TikTok? There's this woman Kelsey, okay. She's a thirty one year old Grand Canyon Rriver guide And she's currently attempting to become the first American woman to row Solo R Row, Rll, your boo Solo across the mid Pacific twenty four hundred miles from California. to Hawaii A lot. crazy. And she's documenting the whole thing on her TikTok. It's like a whole journey you can saw of this. and she she's prepared for for food and ye if she needs to sleep or ver Yeah, that was my for I was like, how are you? What happens when it's time to go to to sleep and stressed Well I funny enough she does take and don't do this, kids. It's for what she I'm sure she's got a doctor's advice, but she takes a caffeine pill and she's like, this thing without this when she needs to row at night. She said it' a it's the MVP. But I guess when she goes to sleep because we're humans and we do have to sleep She turns on something called an auto rower that does not don't worry, it doesn't cheat she doesn't move her towards Hawaii. It just keeps her from so that she can go down into a part of the boat and go to bed. Okay so just keeps her floating away. Yeah. But the thing is it's just her alone. in water all around. I know that's really scary. And then do we have a clip? I put a clip in of the sound this auto rower makes. This again is when this woman is trying to rest. Day nineteen becoming the first American woman forlla from California toawaii It one AM. Steering shift What this? Do you thinkar that? Do you think you be able to sleep in the middle of the ocean with a robot sounding like it's trying to murder you? No, I can't even sleep when my Netflix keeps playing my show. fall asleep. I can't imagine. What the fuck is that sound U okay. Isabella's TV is like, Are you still watching? She's like, please, I'm sleeping This episode is presented by Xinity. Hello Hi, and welcome to casuals, a sports podcast for everybody. We don't care what you know. Sports are for everybody and we want to help you enjoy them. I'm Katie Nolen, the host of this thing. Lots to get to today in this episode. We got an update to the Brendon Soreresby College football gambling Scandal situation. We've got a World Cup fan experiencing the American South for the first time, and we are going to be joined in a little bit here by some awesome guests. We have Michael Schher and Joe Posnanski who are coming. They have a new book that's out now called Big Fan, T Friends, eighty two thousand four hundred ninety miles and the wild wonderful spports We love. It is a book that you could argue was written specifically for this podcast that I'm having a blast reading. so we're going to talk to them basically about all things fandom. And it's very fascinating and interesting. But first, we've got to talk about a little bit of sports news and to do that, I'm going to need the help of my casualties, The production crew here at SiriesXM. We have Isabella ourports newbie. Hello and buub,,, Brady Hey everybody. Hey. Chris, by the way. Unfortunately, I got bad intel Chris is not back next week. There's one more week without Chris and then I go away. And so we're not going to have a podcast with Chris. For like two more weeks, but have no fear if the smooth Australian voice is the reason you love this podcast, he will be back soon. I promise this isn't some elaborate ruse. It's just weird timing for a if you go to Australia Australia, there's sheft launching the creas is fire. Yeah. And it's not the case because if you go to Australia, you do have to spend at least a month there for it to be worth the amount of time it took you to get there unless I guess you're so low rowing, which maybe we should make him do that next time he wants to go somewhere. J so low row We're like two weeks in and my idiot brain still giggles at the fact that like I can text him in the afternoon and be like goodood morning, buddy. Yeah, I'm still not really used to it and ha it's crazy for the finals of his favorite sport. When Isabella is becoming more of a basketball fan than she's ever been, he's not here. It's just a bummer. We miss you, Chris. Anyway, we got a lot of business to get to First and foremost, before we get into game three of the finals, which last time we saw you guys, we were about to watch. It was happening that night. Tonight, we've got game four I know it's frustrating, but we got plenty to talk about. Before we get to that, Isabella and I saw friend of the show, Danny Wexelman this week. She came by to do our the radio show that we do And she gave us a gift. And so we have a new addition to the set because Danny always comes with something. She never shows up empty handed. And she brought us because she's now working with the Cardinals straight from St. Louis, a tarps off to commemorate what's going on over there where the boys are takaking off their shirts, I also asked her have girls done this yet And she was like, no, and I think a lot of them, you know wouldn't feel safe to. She's like, So we got to come up with what it is the girls can do if they want to participate in TARPS off. So we actually do have an uncomfortable phenomenon. People are now emailing directly to me to say, Hey, I found a girl I'm like, no, we're notosed be. Oh, yeah, not That's not. And when you say directly to you, you mean to the casuals email to the casuals but like, hey Brady I found a girl L like no please don't personal email. Yeah. I was gonna say random people are just sending you other people nudes and that's not please don't use the emails to do that Have I said it yet though? It is probably a bad time to say casuals with Katie Nolan at Gmail d. comot No nudes, please. six four, six eight z one zo ero four three is our voemail and on IG and TikTok we' at Casuals the podcast. We're gonna get into some of your work. mail that you sent in at the end of the podcast today, likeike I said, loaded show with the NBA Fals, game three Isabella. Hi. Hello H We you ended up watching game three at a watch party. This was your first time venturing out to be kind of social around the Kicks and they did lose the game to the spurs How did that make you feel? I thought to myself, I don't want Dam But I did and you did And I feel a lot better today than I did the day after. Okay, tellell me why You know, I sat on it. I told myself, We're still up in the series. That's right. It's not like it's over. You know, I learned from what I cried in the first round and they lost to the Hawks. Okay. So then Yeah.' so long ago. I don't need to get so upset now. right So I'm I'm nervous. I know and nervous. It's look, they're making it a series, which thank God, you know, and while I would have been h cool I would have been veryy happy for you if there is a sweep was just like you want it to be you want there to be some adversity to have to go against. And boy is there now. two one the series is at the Nicks, as Isabele said are still up. It's just that crazy that no home team can get a win in this series so far. The Nick one two on the road series moves to New York to MSG and the Spurs won the first one. Now again, by the time you're listening to this maybe they lost the second game in New York. We don't know that yet This loss, game three was the Kick's first loss in forty six days And it broke a thirteen game winning streak, which was the second longest in postseasason history. I also think this was the first game in this postseason that Jalen Brunson scored over thirty points and they did not win the game. That was like a thing that had not happened yet and now it has happened Um, Tonight, Isabella, are you what's the plan for tonight I'm leaning toward sting Okay, I actually less kidy So I before I left commute this morning. I was like If I for some reason change my mind and decide to stay out, I brought an Nix hat with me Okay, but regardless, I'm keeping her here. Because I he her being there is the thing. I think that's what it is. Okay. Even if I were to decide to go out tonight, which honestly, I don't think I am. I think I'm just gonna stay at home I think it's still good luck to have her on the couch and watching the TV. Okay. And where is your hater Net's loving boyfriend at He'll be there. He'll be there, but You think they can get along without you? I think so. I think there will be points where he'll to just be like Yeah, he just takes it all out on Kitty, which actually I'd be fine with. Let your feelings out. your big feelings, give him to a stuffy. But I did know that he when I was gone for game three that he definitely thought about because I had asked him if I did go and left Kitty there, wouldould you put it up that he thought about doing that because he texted me and he was like, where is she? Okay. All right.. We do love him. We do love him. This is a difficult look for him to be a die hardard Nets fan and to have this sweet beautiful angel who we are celebrating finally falling in love, like really peeking in her beautiful Kicks fandom. And it's just unfortunate that your wonderful boyfriend who I bet we would like in any other context is the ops in this context because he is so loyal to the Nets. I know He's like I hate the Kicks so He hates so well. It's sooying. Do he still wear his Netss jersey during the Nick games point that would be embarrassing. We would have to do something about that. So thank God Speaking of embarrassing, Donald Trump attended the game, firstirst sitting president ever attend an NBA finals game. I guess we do this now. I didn't know that we were all supposed to go weird, but whatever. Also the first sitting president ever fall asleep at an NBA finals game. Was James Dolan also napping they look like they were exhibiting the same energy Exactly. I like Thanksgiving when the two grandpas get on the couch next to each other and take a nap at the same time To watch the game and then you're like, you guys are snoring so loudly. poor Kayi Trump, the you How old is she? She's like nineteen Yeah twenty. Just watching her try to like Nudge them up and have no friend her own age to go like, this is crazy. What is the U But whatever, the big question heading into the game was are they going to boo him? becausecause obviously the people who can afford to get into game three at MSG are in a tax bracket that maybe isn't necessarily reflective of all New York and therefore there was some concern that maybe the booing wouldn't happen. And then as with anything that happens in America now after it happened Now there's some people who say that no, it wasn't a boo and some people say that it was. We have pulled three sounds to try to get to the bottom of this conversation. So let's start by playing broadcast sound when Trump was shown, he was shown during the national anthem. Which I assume was maybe a way to a thought by James Dolan or whoever makes that call, that people won't poo if it's during the National e. Absolutely. Let's take a listen to what happens Please rush shub Rememberise St H Okay, so that's on the broadcast. Then let's take a listen to this is a fan who was in the arena took a recording of the same moment. Let's take a listen to that sounds Yeah That's a lot more. I would say in my experience of it on the broadcast, it sounded like a because they were chearing or making some other noise right before it. Then they show them on the jumbo Tron and you hear immediate silence The noises they were making went quiet And then it was like Yeah It sounded like a roar with an oo at the end, which was enough for me. I was just glad there wasn't. The last thing I wanted was like ye That would just make me feel so untethered from real. I would just go like, am I out of touch? Are we really this happy with how everything is going? It was a mess outside of the garden before the game But magically by the national anthem, it did seem like they had at least most people in their seats. Of course the more true, I guess, if you're looking for the opinions of real New Yorkers, you'd have to go to those watch parties. Luckily, I happen to see quite a few videos across the watch parties of what happened when Trump was on the screen. So again, this isn't at MSG, but just for fun Just for funsies, let's take a listen to the Bryant Park Watch partarty when Trump was shown on the projection screen It just seemed like a nice catharsis. I saw a lot of double birds up to the screen, a lot of people just letting it all. coming together to let it all out. We got a voicemail from someone. Is it Lila Eilah. and she brings up a fantastic point. Let's take a listen to this voicemail Hi K and casuals. This is Pyla. I'm calling from Maine. I'm calling you in the heat of the moment. I have to say ust for Avery Wilson, this guy singing the National Anthem of N next game. was doing such a great job. And then the next broadcasting crew the idea to show Donald Trump while he's singing. And then obviously everybody in the crowd is booing him as they should. They should be booing down on Trump What are you doing here but then they has to be bling over beautiful Amvery Wilson's national anthem. So I just want to say a big F you to the next broadcasting crew or whoever did that still when And I'm sorry to Abriy Wilson. And you have a beautiful voice And I love you and I mean it And that's all Bye When she said you have a beautiful voice, she was talking to me, and I just wanted to say thankk you so much Avery Wilson is the scarecrow on Broadway in the Whiz. And so that's some place that you may know him from. but completely agree. It must have been pretty difficult to do the hopefully he knew why it was happening, but I imagine maybe he' couldn't see the jumboron. So could I bet either even if you could, there's a lot going on at once and that could be really stressful. And so shout out Avery Wilson, You did a great job. You have a fantastic voice. And if you want to support him, I look this up He's going to be in Nashville, Tennessee on the on july fifteenth P, Pennsyvania jly nineteenth in Atlanta, Georgia july twenty fifth. So if if you want to support Avery Wilson lookook him up and and go see him when he comes to your town Um, You know what really was tough for me to watch. I know we talked before the game. the things that Adam Silver, the commissioner of the NBA was saying in regards to Trump. He was defending him as a New Yorker. He was defending him as a Nicks fan, basically saying like this guy can come and do this. And it was funny to see Adam Silver during the pregame show talking it up with Chuck and Shaq and the guys basically giving those same talking points that we had previously discussed, but it's just his energy was a little much. I'm trying not to be too mean Commissioners or whatever, I've never really loved a commissioner. I've never been like, hell yeah, it's a cool person. But this was just, can we play the clip of Adam Silver talking to the guys before the game? I found out because Jim Dan invited him get to the game and he said, yes. And he's welcome to be here. I think that what makes sports so special Eespecially when there's so much to divise people, is it something that we have in common? And we should look for those things that we have in common and build off that. And Ill also say about President Trump. You know, I've been with the league for a long time. I ran MBy Entertertainment. But back in the old days, he had courtside seats. He was here all the time. He was at draft. so he's a genuine Kicks fan The part that didn't make it into the clip was he's going like, remember? You guys remember. rightight? Like trying to get the the inside the NBA guys to go like, Yeahah. and none of them gave him anything. They were all just like Go ahead and give your little Trump speech U, which he did And I will just say at times like this when there's so much that divides people, it's him. It's That's Trump. Soes we're all trying to figure out who did exactly He's in the hot dog costume being like I couldn't possibly say. It's like you you are what divides us. And so yes, we do use sport sport as something that brings us together. Apart from you, you are the divisiveness, you are the source of the problem. You are why everybody And so instead of you don't get to benefit off of sports being a place where we all come together. So luckily Everybody in that building, most people in that building let that guy know how we feel about it. And then he took a nice littleittle nap and left we had discussed if he was going to leave early. he did. He left like with a few minutes left in the fourth quarter, I think is what I heard, which again makes sense. Just get out of there. He could have I think he should have left Right after they showed him, you know, rightight after he did his little just the White House Might have been their Twitter account, who knows? posted like King of New York picture of him saluting during the national anthemy. And it was just like to who, you know, Who has ever gone in New York. We all know that's Jayalen Brunson. That's right, I respectful to post that. Now, Isabella care to comment on what happened to Spurs fans out in the street Oh It's not good guys. And Isabella, as the fan representative, I just wanted to give you some space to tell people you know, what what Nicks fans are allowed to do and what they're not what you won't stand for. What what's Lay mashion find to be passionate I remember someone on the radio was saying, like you could even shit talk No violence guys. comeome on Come on in sports. That's right.ust for the we're just here for the basketball. Okay. for anyone who didn't see and don't look it up. This really Dan came out screaming that morning. He was like, Are you seeing what they did to a spurs fan And I was like, yes, but every look I know we're all excited. Everybody gets up in the heat of the moment fan mentality, group mentality herd mentality sometimes can take over. Just like chill out. Take a deep breath. someomebody wearing a sppurs jersey in the streets of New York while New York is celebrating the Kicks is actually a very brave person And also as a sports fan They're just like you. they're just from a different place. It's like They love their team the way you love your team. They see you out in the street celebrating your team and they're brave enough to put on their jersey and they want to go out there too. Now if they're antagonizing you, again, like Isabella said, you could talk shit, you can yell, you can go boo, you can It's not Chase The video I saw was a guy getting chased down the street someomebody called out Spurs jersey and then a group of Nick fans like chased him down the street. to jump him Unacceptable behavior and you're making us look bad. Yes, exactly. Everyone's kind of enjoying look bad and you're also making New York look bad. like can we chill? Exactly. I think everybody around the, I don't know world, but definitely country has been enjoying seeing New York I was saying it before through Instagram, but it's just like on social media, being a part of it all in New York right now feels really cool. and stuff like this will send that immediately back into New York fans are crazy and why would we ever support this. So everybody, please be smart out there. The watch parties are back on for tonight from what I've heard. I saw Mandani tweeted that it's back on ticketed watch party outside of MSG. But then I heard somebody else say conflicting sources say something else Um I don't know, man, by the time this comes out, it will have happened. So you'll figure it out, I'm sure. I also saw that Trump and Stehen A. Smith were going at it. This is just look, Steven A. Smith is a Ns fan and what a perfect way for him to launch into what we all know is coming. which is probably some sort of a presidential run or maybe a he wants to be, some sort of a politician. And so while I support him going back and forth with Trump. We're not getting any of this, because at the end of the day, if this ends with Stehven A. Smith running for president You know? So I'll just we'll just Was he addressed if he runs for president? Is he still doing the show? or we give three more hours of fan service? Oh wow, what a great question. That's something we're going to have to look into. The people do want to know. so I guess Well I think I get a cabinet position actually. so we'll see. It's another responsibility I'm not really into. But Isabella, I'm willing to to To take the burden off of you. It's not your fault What that you went to a watch party and the Nick lost? It's technically Trump's fault Not just because he was there, but because him being there created a no bag policy. And that no bag policy, did you see this? kept cat Carl Anthony Towns fiance, Jordan Woods from being they're engaged to' their dating. Am I Is that engaged? fi. Okay. They kept her from being able to bring her lucky bag. She has been bringing this one orange bag to all the games as a good luck charm. And I saw her on TikTok say that she was going to try to send to the game with cat. like sneak it in his bag or something. But even the the athletes were like padded down going through TSA security. and so she couldn't bring her bag I know I know. ouse It was ruining all the vibes. Completely, entirely And then took an Superstitions and rituals were off Be of him. Not just and again, to be clear, not just Isabella's. It was not her fault. Yeah. so Adam Shine. I was gonna to say Adam can beak with me. Adam. I'll got you and Bomber on the list. What the hell calledall me out of the radio today he was't even in studio, all right, whatever It's just at the end of his show last two after the games he's been like Isabella Go to a watch party. thingsings might change. and then today he said it's all Isabella's fault 'cause she went to a watch party, but she's learned her lesson and she's gonna stay home tonight. Which again, he wasn't in studio, so you hadn't even told him that.? So if you weren planning to stay home, you would have to stay home. He kind of backed you into a corner But you know't have to expand, so I can't Yeah I take some You guys are together now. your teammates, you're aligned and you're together. Okay, we have to move on to Brendan Soresby because it keeps being something we don't have time to talk about. and I'm really you know me. I came late to college sports and by the time I showed up Everything was crazy. There was like it was like going to a daycare when they skipped nap time. Everything was nuts in college sports. to the point where I was like, how was anyone keeping track of how any of this works and the NCAA has felt like an organization In name only, it feels like they have no sort of authority or power and they don't do anything. And this Brendon Soreresby story is really bringing that all into stark contrast context for me. So Sresby, you'll remember, was a quarterback at a number of programs. It was found out that he after transferring to Texas tech for like a huge amount of money, it was the highest paid transfer portal, whatever transaction this offseason. He's now about to start playing at Texas tech and it comes out that he's been gambling on sports throughroughout his time as an athlete. One of the bets that he made or a couple of the bets he made were on his own team while he was technically playing for of them. forty of them. Yeah, lots of the bets were for his own team And And then there were also obscure sports. And those are the two things I look at when I go like, is this an addiction that may have gotten out of hand? And those seem not saying that necessarily it is, but those are two indicators that seem like this is a problem that he does not have under control. And we haven't really heard from him since saying any sort of contrition. He has not done any like, whoa, this is something I'm really I haven't heard a lot from him I'm seeing I was very surprised to see And again, I'm not deep in the world of it. I'm not deep in the weeds, but I'm seeing a lot of people go like, and what's the issue me what the issue is about Brendon Ss be gambling on his own team. And I'm like, are we there thought we all knew what the problem would be of gambling on your own team because as soon as gambling gets its hands on As soon as it gets close that close to the sport where the athletes participating in it are participating in the gambling as well. on the game they're currently playing in, the whole thing gets called into question. And we do not have time to call the whole thing into question. It will not stand up to scrutiny. And so the way to keep the game pure which I need to be clear is integral to the enjoyment of a game If the whole thing's called into question then what the fuck are we doing here So in order to keep it as pure as possible, you have to keep gambling out. And so what happened the other day that we mentioned and have not talked about on Monday Brendon Soreorsby was granted a temporary injunction against the NCAA that could clear the way for him to play for the Texas Tech Red Raiders in twenty twenty six even after he was declared ineligible for betting over ninety thousand dollars on college sports, including forty bets on Indiana while he was on the team Judge Ken Curry ruled that Soreresby's attorneys demonstrated he will suffer a quote probroable imminent and irreparable injury, end quote if he's unable to play, which I we used to just call that consequences of your own actions. That's chickens comoming home to roost. That's the that's how it works. You did that. And then the injury would be because You injured yourself U Later Monday, the NCAA formally filed an appeal in Texas, the trial date february eighth, twenty twenty seven, two weeks after the national championship. So the appeal of this won't even be heard until after a season has been played. I have heard that there's been schools or conferences, Brady, that have come out and said we're not going to play against Texas tech Yeah, right off the bat, Georgia and Nebrka, their athletic directors issued instructions to their administrators. said do not schedule them for anything. And this is all sports So this is Texas Tex football program and this guy Getting an injunction to play after gambling is now going to affect the level of competition that let me just pull one out of the hat. Texas tech softball can play And twising Hell of a stray being caught there to protect this one guy. Yeah. look, it just feels like this is a hard line that we drew for a reason. And I'm watching people kind of like, well, what does it even matter anymore? And I know what it probably boils down to is that until there is a collective bargaining agreement as there exists between the players and the leagues, we watched the big conversation about the WNBA that was trying to get to the The terms of this CBA between the players union and the league itself Once they started paying college players, those players don't have a union. So there isn't really anything that the league can do or the NCAA, I guess, as a whole can do to stop their ability to make the money The lack of a CBA is really the issue, right? Brady. It's going to boil down to they're going to they need that in order to be able to do this properly. It just feels sports leeagues have agreed to punishments that players can receive for transgressions of this level. whereereas the NCAAA has no cohesion for that. Yeah. And even the agreed two ones, as we saw in the NFL, sometimes they'll go and change those all willilly nilly. It just feels like until that's figured out, we're not going to have consequences for this, but seeing people that work in sports go like, what's the big deal then? makes me go, I'm terrified. That's scary. What do you mean, what's the big deal? The big deal is we can't have this. We can't have the athletes gambling on the sports. It calls way too much into question and it was already scary that you're seeing them in a calciad. It's like already Dicy But to have them actually gambling and say that doesn't make a big difference is Sliippery slope when the and I usually hate invoking a slippery slope, but the generations after Brendan Soreresby have always had gambling as accessible as it is right now And so you're not going to get less Brendan Sresbees. You're unfortunately most likely going to encounter more. And so this whole thing's a mess that I'm sure we will keep our finger on the pulse of, and we will keep you updated Um, We do have to move on, right? I think that covers all of it. So far for now, but we got to rush through some of the stuff so we can get to our awesome guests We've got to talk about the World Cup, something we have been talking about for what feels like six years, and it's finally here. you guys, the games start today, Thursday is the first game. First game for USA is on Friday. We've got a couple of stories that have been floating around that we want to update on you. Team Aon, something that we've been very interested in, how this is all going to shake out. And unfortunately, it's looking like it's shaking out kind of in the way We expected that it would, but we're hoping that it wasn't. Teima Ran arrived at their training site in Tijuana on Sunday after FIFA encouraged them to move from their original training site in Tucson So fourteen staff members were denied visas to enter the United States. All three of Iran's group stage games are in the United States. Reports over the weekend stated that they would not be permitted to stay overnight in the US Department of Homeland Security said on Tuesday that they could arrived the night before. This is what the DHS spokesperson said, thanks to the generosity President Trump The Iranian team will be able to arrive the day before their matches. Wow. What hospitality for the Iranian team The Iran and the U.S. could meet in the round of thirty two. That would be on july third in Arlington, Texas if both teams finish second in their groups, which I know for the US. posossible Iran's not bad either like Iran could do it too. Okay. And so I guess we could spend fourth the July weekend watching Iran and the U. S play. Similarly guys, a United States official said Tuesday night that Omar Artan the Somalian soccer referee who I believe was set to be the first in the World Cup, first Somalian ref was denied entry into the country ahead of the World Cup, was refused admission due to quote Association with suspected members of terror organizations, which I genuinely do think is just our government's way of saying he's from Somalia Artan told the New York Times he was interviewed at the Miami Airport for eleven hours by border officials. tootally normal who asked him why he'd traveled to the U.S. He's got a logical reason. There's times where when they ask you, like what's your reason for being here where I panic because I'm like, it's just like a trip Just I just w to look around say that without it sounding suspicious. T say I'm here to be the first Somalian ref in the World Cup ever. and they go, I don't know, is a World Cup? What's that Eleven hours They asked him why he traveled the US. and they questioned him about Somali politics and the Al Shab militant group. He showed them FIFA documentation and photos from his refereing career. he said After the question, he was put in a holding cell and sent back on a plane to Istanbul. So there that's the sad. And I think we've focused on a lot of the sad and the bad because it is important to mention that we are hosting this international event and we're not doing great international relations wise also want to shine a little bit of light on the good Because something I've bumped into on the internet on social media over the last couple of days is watching fans of these soccer teams that love these teams die for these teams. Soccer is their number one sport. We can't relate to that in the United States. But they love it so much, they've made a trip to the United States to watch and support their teams And while they're over here, They're experiencing American culture, smaller towns, southern towns, places in like Kansas City. They're experiencing these places that maybe aren't the ones they're seeing a lot on social media over in their countries or hearing about on the news has been so unnexpectedly delightful to experience America through their eyes. I've seen so many people being like, I just had the best sandwich of my life from this gas station. and I don't know what America is a crazy place. One guy in particular, I think we've all kind of gravitated towards is this guy Freddie. He is a German guy who has been going to places like Walmart and Chile's and sort of just seeing them with his eyes and sharing them on social media Isabell, have you seen any of this? I actually haven't. It's really sweet He u he showed up in Atlanta. He was riding the The train in Atlanta, you called it the metro. do they call it the metro could but he did. He said, not gonna lie riding the metro in Atlanta is a bit scary. It's like a GTA lobby. One person next to us is taking off his shirt and declaring war on Donald Trump Well another person is moon walking across the platform You're like, that's anthropology. He's just there writing it all down.. He also went to Taco Bell and got a bahab lastast. Gott to do it. Incredible. Did he call it the Holy land He called it the Holyand. That's the entire text on the post. The Holy Land and Four tacos in a baha blast. Amazing. He's also doing his part to go to tourist sites in Atlanta. He went to the house where Stranger Things was filmed. He went to the Martin Luther King Junior. Historical Park on T it though, two spots. Yeah but that's fine. That's a lot of tourism for one day. He also had to go to Walmart that day. june seventh. He went to Walmart He also tweet on june seventh, just passing through a town called Gainesville. And this place looks beautiful. The houses are insane. Wow. He had his first waffle House experience at one AM on june eighth Great food, great prices and friendly staff, ten out of ten. we will be coming back I gott to come back because he hasn't had the w. I was going to say you can't give in a ten out of ten with no mention of any sort of Disturbance You know what I'm saying? You've got to bump into at least one little we go like the Theater of it was fantastic. He's got to see somebody come over the counter. Yeah. That's our culture. Yes. He also has to see a storm come in that's so bad that we check to see if Wafflehouse is still open Because that is genuinely an index that I think even the government uses is the Waffle House index. If any of those clothes, something it's very bad, something bad is happening because they always stay open. He went to a Wendy's, he went to a Chili's whichich I saw Michaola Junror interact with. He said, Well now he's got Now he can't go home. He's having the what's that caseity a blast salad that they have with the little Mini quesadillas on the side of the salad. Isabella, are you not dabbling in chil' culture? No, I love chilies, but I've never had that. I've had the chicken bon ranch My best friend in college was a bartender at a chil', so I have tasted the entire menu. I've had a flight of margaritas in front of me at all times. Yeah Yeah, he also went to a bucky'. Somebody was online. they were going, please get yourself to a Bucky's and he went and he was shocked that it was a gas station. He could not believe what he was seeing. So absolutely incredible. There are lighthearted fun stories coming out of the World Cup. and maybe seeing our culture again, through the eyes of people who don't live here might be able to give us a renewed sense of what America is really all about and supposed to be all about And and maybe we can find some beautiful stuff and fall back in love with our country through what seems to be a bit of a trying time. So thank you to Freddy and the others. And if you turn out to just be some sort of a viral marketing campaign Gambling platform, Freddy And the rest I'll find you Come to your fucking country and I'll find you And I'll steal your wallet and I'll give you a paper cut on your eyeball Okay. I'm not Kidd ' wrong when you get asked at an airport and you're like, I'm just visiting they'll be like,, ma'am, we do see. Yeah that you once threatened one of our own. And that's right. and I'll find it Kill him if this becomes all about Kalcici I swear to God, Freddy. I can't have my hopes. I can't be like, this is so heartwarming. it's he's being paid. He's being paid to do this. Yeah So it's just too much. I can' handle that right now Okay, let's take a quick break because when we come back, guys, I know I say it all the time, but I'm really excited about our next guest guests, I meant to say, but I stopped the word early. We've got Michael Schure and Joe Posnanski who are here. They wrote a wonderful book Call bigig fan Tw friends, eighty two thousand four hundred and ninety miles and the wild, wonderful sports we love. They spent about a year going all over the country experiencing sports that have fans, sports that don't have fans talking to fans, playing the sports just to try to get to the bottom of what the hell it is. It about sports that makes us all feel this way and they've got so much insight, so I pick their brains. They're both so great. Joe has been a sports writer for so long. Some of the best pieces of sports writing I've ever read have come from Joe. Michael Schher is obviously an Emmy award winning TV producer. He co created Parks and Rec, Brooklyn niney nine and one of my favorite TV shows of all time So we're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we'll be here with Mike and Joe talking about Big fan. This is Casuals, and we'll be right back Ladies, tired of sunglasses ripping your hair out? I know I am. Meet shady rays tangle free sunglasses. becausecause once the weather warms up and you're outside for those park days and beach trips, the last thing you want is your sunglasses ruining your hair. These are designed with smooth, no snag nose pieces that glide through your hair, not yank and definitely not ruin your fresh blowout. They're lightweight, polarized, so you're not squinting in the bright sun, and cute enough to wear with everything. Plus, every pair is backed by lost and broken protection. Leave them at the beach, drop them in a parking lot after a long day out, or sit on them in the car. 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That's notorium d. com slash casuals Mike and Joe, thank you so much for being here I told you before we started that I I set out with the goal to skim big fan so that I would know what to ask you about when you were here. And instead, I've fallen so in love with it that I'm like fully reading it and because of that I haven't finished yet. This has very a student vibes. It really. It's very like achieving a student Look at this It's forced. It's for I was forced to be an A student. I didn't have another option. My mother was she was very serious about my schooling and And I wasn't a very good student because I didn't realize I had a learning disability tntil I graduated college. Is that true? So yeah, I got diagnosed with ADHD as soon as I graduated. poorly t timu. How did that happen? How did you get you already graduated? Where did the test come from? I was going in because I was like, I think I'm severely depressed And I was trying to explain my symptoms to a doctor who was like, Now, let me ask you this. you ever been tested for ADHD No. And then they did whatever that test is and they were like, Yeahah, you have like a full blown case. How did you get this far? I don't know. Wh did wait, whereere did you go to college? This is how about? This is about you. on Long Island. Okay. And did you find it difficult in those classes to like concentrate and perform at a high level? You did. This is baff This is amazing to me not to get us completely off track right at the time. Let's go right off. Let's go right off the rails Every kid in my I have two kids and they're eighteen and fifteen and like everyone has something. Yeah. Everybody has something. Especially now. Yes. And they have and they have been if they're lucky, they've seen a doctor, they've been properly diagnosed. in some cases, they take medication When we were kids like you was just like, oh, that kid's a bad student. or that kid can't sit still or that kid doesn't do good in math or whatever. And you just realize like the degree to which we did not understand the human brain for The entirety of human history until like nineteen ninety seven or maybe twenty fifteen. And how different people's lives would have been? I know. I mean, how different your life would have been. if you had gotten that, if you had figured that out when you were in high school or something.. And then I'm also like it's part of how you see yourself and define yourself as you're growing up is when you're like, I'm not kid,'m trouble. It becomes feedack loop where It's like, I'm not good this so I'm not gonna try all that stuff. And I'm very grateful to the scientific and medical community gotten a handle it. and hopefully that they keep going and we keep learning more about it because My goodness. I mean, also phones, I think, have destroyed everyone's attention. Yes. I think we're all kind of in a weird ADHD esque space But yeah, big relief to get the diagnosis. and then I was very frustrated because I was like, Yeah, doesn't matter anymore. I'm not in school anymore. Did you think about applying to gradu school just yes I was like, maybe I'll just go and see how good and easy it could have been if paying attention wasn't a huge burden But enough about me and my mental health rules. This book is like it's perfectly aligned with what, you know, we do here on casuals and with just my experience as a sports fan. So I guess my first question is U How much fun was this to write? tremendous amount. Oh just y. All we have had for a year. people coming up to us and saying they let you do this S like Yeah. Yeah. oh yeah, just like Why did you get to go around the world to sporting events to write about fandom? Like that doesn't seem fair. So much fun. and I think not only just fun in general, I think stuff that we didn't know would be as fun Yeah turned out to be incredibly fun. Yeah. I mean, the book was conceived of by me But when I had the idea, the idea wasn't, oh, I should do this. The idea was we should do it. Yeah. As soon as I had the idea, it was, o, I have to do this with Joe. And the reason was that A he's a psycho fan in the same way that I'm a psycho fan. and it felt like Part of the book was going to be about finding communion with other sports fans And so it felt like, well, that means the two of us should write it together because it should be a shared experience What we also found is that we have the same concept of fun, I think, right? It's like when we thought of a million places to go, a million things to see and the ones that we were like, yeah, I don't know, we're all the same and the ones that we were like, oh we have to do that were all the same. that was like that made us feel like we were on the right track when it was like, shouldould we do this thing No, I don't think that'll be as good as this other thing. and then everything we did was great. So it felt like we chose correctly. Yeah, I love the book opens with you guys spending an inordinate amount of time at a buuffalo Wild Wings. Crect O on the first day of the NFL season. Yeah, which is The perfect place to start a book where you're diving into I mean, I imagine as a vegetarian. wasn't great? A tough menu to dig through. It was very funny to order carrots and the guy like he didn't know what to do. was just He was the most polite service person in the world because I was like, I can't eat anything on your menu. Can I just have a plate of carrots and celery? And he looked worried for me, He looked worried for his job, like, is this gonna be okay? And I was like, I'm gonna tip you as if you gave me seven plates of wings 'cause we're gonna sit here for eight hours, but this is all I can eat. And he was like, okay, and he would check in on us. He'd be like, you he was like a parent. He like arere you anemic now? Do you need help But yeah, that was the we wanted we had to start the book writing with the NFL because it's so dominant in the culture. And we had all these different plans. We're going to go to this place or that place or whatever. And then at the last second, Joe was like, why don't we just go to a buuffalo of wild wings and sit there for eight hours? And it was totally the right call because it's a place where as we write in the book, like you saw This random Buffalo wild wings in Dallas, we saw fourteen different jerseys being represented. likeike that's where that's where America goes if they're not in their houses to watch football. And so it was a perfect place to kick off this crazy adventure. And then I mean, the adventure takes you everywhere. You guys go to Uh, you do the darts? art You see the costumes that everybody wears to go to the darts, which is Absurd. You experience Luke Litler who was a guest on this podcast. really we have we have a he's not here now he's on like a third thirty month vacation, our producer, Chris, but he loves the darts and he loves Luke Litler and so we got him. What was it like to interview him Not He's very young Yeah here's the thing about him and you mention this in the book, too is he doesn't seem young or young No like old guy that plays dart and drinks beers. He's just very young so he was very shy maybe Yeah. and it was like a it was supposed to be in person, but then something fell through. So it ended up being like on a talk back and it just was like a The energy was a little low, which could it was probably my fault. I was unpared. thought I was getting a kid.gh but I mean, so talented incredibly down. that he started throwingarts when he was like Months old videoideo of him at how old? Three Three. Throwing darts and like doing like a little celebration dance like after like Yeah, it's So funny because you we went to the darts. We kind of knew it was insane. It ends up being so much more insane than you could possibly think, right. These guys are just they're geniuses, but their geniuses at this just at a bar game. What you get drunk and d And they're so good at it R Yeah It' They never miss. He's he was seventeen, I believe when he won the championship And and there was the video of him at three. and I was like, well, the lesson from this is give your three year old really sharp objects and have them start say like throw these wherever. Start and just see sureurely nothing could go wrong. 'ause you don't know. You don't know it. You might have it Luke G Litler. Yeah. And that was the other thing about Luke Gitler specifically All of these guys never miss. But somehow he never misses more than may never miss Yeah. It's fascinating. So crazy. Fascinated by that. I was fascinated by you even tried to go to sports that don't have fans. You went to chess. figured out that like the reason that they can't have fans is because it's more silent than silence. It's just so quiet. So quiet. you can't be anywhere near anybody that's actually playing the sport. and this cheating like it's such a it's such a phenomenon the cheating so they can't they don't want anybody nearby because because computers are so much better at chess than people. So you know, you have some guy with his telephone. He can he can somehow signal or whatever. So And everybody's paranoid about cheating. Crazy. So it's it was and we did it right after put it right after Oh yeah. And so it's like, okay, well, here's darts. Everybody's dressed up like a banana or a minion or a Harry Potter and more drinking any not just sport, any place on earth per capita more drinking. I've said now It's the only place I've ever been where they sell pictchures of beer and there's not a glass to be found anywhere in the entire place. We should sell funnels. They should sell pictures and funnels. ft like the vibe I got was that they did. It just felt like a party with no theme. That no theme. And it's also unclear. We asked a bunch of people where the costumes came from and no one really remembers the best way. And it's not just that everyone's in costume it people decide on a costume. So it's it's not like one Harry Potter. It's like there are eight Harry Potters. And then you'll see the funnest the thing that made me laugh the hardest was a lot of there were like several different Jamaican bob sled teams. So you're like, okay, I guess cool runnings is still a thing over there or whatever. just came out. But then there were also people It like a different Bobs sled team, likeike a less famous Bobs sled team, like the nineteen like ninety four English Bobs slled team or something. And it was like, is this in reaction to the Jamaican Robs slled team? or it has its own logic and its own vibe and everywhere we went in London people were like, oh wow, you're going to the darts. Like it was a big deal And I was there's no equivalent that I can think of in the U.S. There's no there's rarely an equivalent anywhere in the world for this pub game, this bar game that is a n it's two weeks, it's two weeks long Yeah. Every match is televised and it's over Christmas and New Year's and people are riveted by it The same company that does it also Al also televises the worldld Snooker Championships, which is like and that's pool pool It's like a kind of poolool But we don't know the rule. Yeah. And I don't know if people go and costume to that either. but I would dress up as snooky to go see snooker. be. Yeah go you gotta get three friends though. You gotta get you got to be four snookies. Sh. I'll find them. I think I can pull them together Speaking of beer, that just made me think of the one of my favorites, this is where I think I am in the book is when you go to Anfield. Yeah. so far. For the first time. An incredible I got to go as well. am a Liverpool fan technically I've it's been put on hold Because Mosala is leaving. Jurgen Klaub obviously left. Like my connection to that team has faded a little and then I'm so mad at the Red Sox frront office. Okay. so let me ask you a question. Did you become a Liverpool fan because the John Henry Group And it was originally given to me by when I was on that show with Regis that we were talking about before. R. H ourur co host of that show was Georgie Thompson, now Georgie Ainsley. And she came over from England and she was giving us all Premier League teams And so she said You will root for Liverpool because you love the Red Sox so much and this is that same. And at the time, I don't know why my brain didn't go. Well, I don't pick based off ownership. But now hedge funder, you a fan of. Right. And so now I'm like as I've been getting more and more angry at the Red Sox, the Raphael Deavor stuff really broke me last season and you're the bregman of it all you're right. Mike by the way We did an event in Boston and we one of the things that we were doing is we were all going to wear hats, local hats, like for fandoms. So for every city we went We had St. Louis, were Cardinals, whatever He refused a life for Red Sox fed refused to give any money to the Red Sox. pr I could not buy a new piece of gear. Yeah. I bought that City Connect jersey A Deavor's City Connect. Oh no. L two days before. Oh no. Two days before. Yeah. I mean, this is probably a separate podcast, but fandom the subject that we're here to talk about today. can take such a dark turn Yeah. And when you're as invested in a team as you are, I know, from here listening to you over the years and I am When things are bad, the vibes in your life are just so bad everywhere. like it permeates every aspect of your life. And I like I find your text threads get really get really deep and dark and sad. Like I'm just sending screenshot. I sent yesterday to my one of my forty Boston sports threads A series of screenshots of pitches that Red Sox hitters either foullowed off or swung through. and they were all just middle, middle change upps like just eighty two mile an hour change up like put on a te and it was like fouled off by Mickey Gasper who's hitting fifth and you're just like what like you the part of the part of the thing here is count on these teams that you root for to make your life Not necessarily amazing, but like interesting. Yeah. And for a number of months, football is like four months, baseball is the longest. baseball is like six or seven months. basasketball is like five or six months You just want to feel like you're getting value back from what you've invested And when your team It starts at baseball season two and seven and and the vibes of the team are so bad And the vibes of the front office are so bad and people are yelling sell the team And they're treating a rookie like he's the veteran leader in the club h is like second years. Yeah And the and like your best, your like new exciting player immediately gets hurt again and is like Apparently he's mister Glass from the movie Unbreakable. And and then like there are things about this team. what the real bummer is like you can see and this is where you hold out hope, you can see a future that's fun. Like Payyton Toly is extremely He's all we have He's all we have. Did you see him talking about eating a seventy two oun steak yesterday? No, of course you did. Why Why would I ask you if you would seen that? He's all I have. Yeah, but there there you can see a path towards enjoyment and Without it, you just it's june tenth and I'm miserable. and it's such a bummer. It's's one of the supposed to do when you're a Cleveland Browns fan. M there's no hugeure I' going to get to that you want to get to it right now. I don't know if I ever want to get to it, but that There is no path. There's no Yeah so like I know every time I complain about Boston spports f next to him. I feel like I know, it does make you feel a little bit like, well, at least we don't have it like that. A least we don't have it like't have. But there is something to be said for having it really good for a while and then just watching the incompetence or the cheapness of an office that just is doing that because it's like the Red Sox keep having it. giving it away. Yeah's like this you just kept it. Cheapness is so much worse than incompetence, don't you think? I mean, the mooooky thing, I don't know how you come back from that, but That's That's not that's not incompetence. They knew There is a real fear I have that We were born, you and I, I think, I don't know how old you are. I'm not going to ask, but we were born into a world where the story was they gave away their best player and they were cursed by a evil, bad sad ghost. And there is a real chance that this has happened again. that they like did it again, that they were like this Mooky Betsts's final years in Boston. were spent winning a World Series title and then after one of the games of the World Series that they won Going to a homeless shelter in downtown Boston and handing out food to folks who were unhoused. And they decided that they didn't want to pay for that guy. And I really do fear at some level that they if there's such a thing a as a mean bad ghost that can curse baseball franchise that they have called upon that wrath once again because I know they made the playoffs in twenty one. they had a magical run. They've been okay, but like they they don't seem like they seem like a rudderless ship and and We were gloriously blessed with with fifteen years where it was like, we're not only not a rudderless ship We are the model franchise. This is we are we are what the Yankees dream of being and now Right back. sureure doesn't feel that way. doesn't.esty. Mooky book, Oh yeah. Dan, where are you? We need you. Ss. The reason I bring it up to tie it all back is that when I went to Anfield, I was shocked, you can't drink beer. while you watch the game Yeah I must have heard that at some point and it didn't register because I think soccer in England and I think like drunk. But the drinking all happens like inside. And then when you go out to your seat, remarkable how it is because of that. Yeah. everything felt a little bit like there are no clocks in there Yeah. There's no distractions. There's no jumbo trying. No jumbo so weird It' so strange. And but I mean, boy magical. Magical. That's what makes it magical. There are There are the obviously there' have been a lot of problems with crowds and soccer in England in the past. We all know that And they've done an incredible job at moderating it. And it's very interesting. L there are whole cities and towns and neighborhoods where you'll see signs on the and restaurants where you'll see signs that say no, no kids. you can't wear a jersey in that. You can't even wear it. you can't wear a Manchester United jersey or any jersey. like go beer in a pub in some places or eat in a restaurant And like they they just got a handle on it in a way that is like It's like what it shows what can be done when people want to do things because it was You know, crowd control is at att soccer events used to be like the most impossible. like lighting fires at stands and stuff. We' like, how did they manage that? But did you enjoy your andfield experience? I loved it.. I mean, the you'll never walk alone of it all. Like the tears just hit. L I remember when I walked out and I was at the time that I went I was had been a fan like waking up watching the games paying attention for like three years, four years. It wasn't I wasn't deep in my fandom. and yet When I walked in, I remember the first time walking in just being like my breath taken away by just Aura inside. And then the second thing that stood out the most to me was how much I kept saying to people like, well, I'm kind of new They did not care.. They were like,es't matter Wh who's your favorite? And I was like, Mosala. And they were like, Malaaking song. It was I had such an awesome time and I just had so much I don respect for that club and for those fans And just the culture around it was so closely tied to U, you know, it's shocking to walk up to the stadium and go, I'm just in a neighborhood. likeike There's houses right here and then you go up to the top and you look across It's not a huge place, Liverpool and you see Everton and you're like, it's right there. R there. They're the ones we hate, they're right there. They're also singing the same songs. Exactly. It just it fascinated me, but it was cool to see your experience kind of that it's sort of like, you know It's like a pilgrimage. You go there and you experience. That's what it felt like for sure. And you know, I had the same thing. We went with some friends of ours, Brandon McCarthy, former major Lag pitcher. Shout out our shout out our friend Matt Drew, who is the world's biggest Liverpool fan My friend Morgan Sagett and Matt and Brandon were like are like They are about Liverpool the way I am about the Red Sox. And so they were locked in they just met, but they were locked in conversation and they were trading in verse about, you know, games against West Bromwich from from like nineteen ninety three. and a little insecure because like I've been a fan since the World Cup in ' ninety eight U, but I couldn't I could just I didn't know I didn't know that about the team. And Joe is famously famous for saying this and he was right. He said There's no purity test in sports. Like you like what you like Yeah. You like them the way that you like them. and that is fine And I know more about Liverpool than a lot of people and a lot less than a lot of people. and that's okay Yeah. And it did not change. I was a little bit insecure, but then when I got to the stadium and walked in, I felt all of the things that you're They just embraced. It's it's such a community and they're so eager to I mean, at least my experience they were like, we'll teach you the songs. Yeah. We want you there to experience the whole thing. I loved it. I had such a blast. But again, taking a little break so that the Hopefully Fenwaypsroup can feel it. They can feel that they've lost some eyeballs. I'm not waking up at seven to watch a team. that doesn't even have Mosala on it. Yeah I'm curious to know along the lines of the purity test because the ethos for casuals A couple things were sort of the impetus for starting this podcast. Number one was I would talk to a lot of people who were like, I like sports, but I'm not an expert like you. I don't know as much like you do And I was finding myself I always being like, well, I don't know that much. I know a lot and then forget a lot more. I don't retain it necessarily that way. The way that I always experienced sports was that It's my favorite thing to be in the moment for to just purely give yourself to experience and ride through the highs and the lows, like really deal with like, oh my go, it's a three two count. like what's going to happen here? Any the world can change U But then if you go, what happened in the seventh inning, sometimes I go, oh I don't I don't remember. I remember liking it, but I do not remember exactly what happened. And so the goal for this podcast was to make those people feel like if they wanted to get into sports And they, you know, I pictured them trying another sports podcast and just feeling lost. R. And so the goal for this was to be like, look, you don't have to know everything. We'll give you all the facts you need to know But if you want to keep a finger on the pulse of what's going on across sports, I want there to be a place for those people to feel welcomed in so that if they if catches because I think sports are like contagious. I think fandom can be contagious. And so for me, it felt like not to use a horrible metaphor, but almost like, come on in here, I'm sick. let me infect you. And then you can then use what you take from this to go fashion your own media diet based off of, oh, I seem to really like baseball and then go you know, find baseball podcasts that you like. And so part of what we do here is to try to foster any small little Pilot lights, I think you say at one point in the book of fandom and sort of add to it the fire to make it grow. U so my One of the fun things we did in the book was we sent each other to an event that we thought the other one would not like. and the goal the mission was see if you can find in this what people do like about it, right? So we'll get to Joe's in a second because his is I've got it marked down's thing we definitely need to talk about. Mine was that I had to go to WrestleMania in Las Vegas. I don't like wrestling. I've never understood why people do like wrestling. And I had a couple as I refer to them as Sirpas who helped guide me and help me. One of them was my friend Jen Statsky who created the show Hck. Jen Stat. And she is a massive wrestling fan and her husband Travis is also a massive wrestling fan. But the other Sirpa was Mike Ryan Ruies of the Dan Lbert S show. Mikeyan. this part yet. I'm excited. And the reason I bring this up is because I was like, hey Can you meet with me before WrestleMania and just help me understand what I'm going watch? And he was like, sure. So we sat down at a sports book in Las Vegas And it was very fun because I was like, okay, so the main event tonight is John Cena, a person I know exists is trying to become the heavyweight champion. And he was like, yes, that's correct. And I said, Has he ever been the heavyweight champion before And he said, he has been the heavyweight champion sixteen times. And I was like, right, this isn't this isn't boxing. This is wrestling. Okay, good. And I asked him, I was like, okay, and why did he double cross this guy? and why did this guy hate him? and why did he turn heel? And Mike literally waved his hands like this. And he said, you don't need to know anything. Just enjoy it. Just be in the moment and watch these incredible athletes do these incredible athletic things and enjoy the theater and enjoy the spectacle. you're going to be fine. And it was such a good piece of advice. It was a very casual piece of advice because it was like, I don't know what this is. I'm going to just be present for it and enjoyed it. And I did and it really helped me. And I think that there is I don't think. I know that there is a place for sports fans who are new to something who don't know anything about it, who can't tell you who led the American League in ERA in nineteen ninety nine Pedro, but you who who can just watch a baseball game and in the right with the right company and the right situation. can be the virus, the pilot light can go on. The virus can be contagious. Yeah that it was not the case for when I sent Joe to do the thing that he had to do, which was to play pickleball. Pickleball Pickleall. Yeah. ye. I've never related more in. Oh really? T just the pure Dain that came through Yeah as you were preparing to go because you made him play pickleball which just guy went crazy and watch. I truly believe the whole idea of us sending each other to something we don't like Mike came up with that idea not specifically to Snd me to pickleall. That was the only thing. And I do. I hate I hate pickball. I hate sound I hate I hate the kitchen. I hate the I just o I hate it so much. Do you hate that it hold the kitchen? I do. I hate that there is a kitchen. Why is there a As a woman in sports, I also hate that it's you have to stay. I got to stay out of it now. You've been spending my whole timeing to get in it. Like where am I to make you a sandwich? Exactly. Yeah, it's also the venture capital of pickballball I feel like's very like Where does all this money from all of a sudden? Yeah, suddenly they just have this money and Gates' favorite sport L likeike I yeah, just I hate it. Yeah. So so I had a bigger challenge to try to find like the humanity and joy of pickleball. but I did And I found it through a friend of mine who some people remember, Jackie Styles who was one of the great women basketball players when she played at then Southwest Missouri states set the all time scoring record. averaged like thirty points a game or senior year. was the great Fal for rememember that. It was just she was inccredible Just an incredible athlete, alsoso the most driven person I've ever known and She fell in love with pickleball. and she kept telling me, you gott to come here and play pickleball with me. and I'm I play tennis. and I'm like, I'm never ever doing that. I'm never coming to play pickleball with you ever. And and and Mike Mike sends me to do pickleball and make her findine. So I go and I play pickleball with her and Jackie is just the most wonderful person. She's been through a lot. Health issues, cancer various other things. she lost sight in one of her eyes. Like she's been through a lot. And to see what Pickleball did for her just how it was this sport that allowed her to like bring back her competitive spirit. She has all these great pickleball friends. They all like about like real things, you know, like life and all of this and And I'm like, oh, I get it. I get it. I hate it. You still hate it. Oh, I and I will never hear. I could tell I'm like, he's not coming around. And I a chance by the end of this chapter he's like It was so funny because they gave me like Part of the big thing of this thing is I spent some time with Pat Smith as's a professional pickleball. player and he gave me this incredible pickleball paddle, like the elder wand of pickleball. and like the kids we played against, which were all kids, by the way. Which is another type of demeaning I don't mean kids. I mean thirteen year old Yeah Oh They were just like, how did you get that racket? You know? So I got it I got the paddle. I brought it home. I immediately gave it to my daughter. I don't want to see this again. Why didn't you give it to one of those kids? Why would they beat them? Bea they beat him, That's why. for them. They they got enough. They got the child. D't one that beat us fifteen No, I'm not giving. Pase to a child. It's like, what do you even do in that point? Do you feel bad or do you go like, I wasn't trying. Yeah. actually I wasn't trying. Oh, show me how to do taxes. Yeah. whatever kid, I have a mortgage. Yeah, please. I have more important stuff to worry about than pick Oh But I did think it showed that you know, good for you for being a good sport and going and trying. Oh yeah. And that there's like different passions. even if the sport itself doesn't speak to you, you can recognize the passion of its fans. And I think that probably speaks very much to the casuals whole idea. I mean, it's like you can fall in love like the single greatest thing I've ever seen in sports. was a Greco Roman wrestling match of the Olympics. I don't know the rules. I don't know what happened. I don't have any understanding of it. But I watch Rouulon Garner beat Alexander Carellin in the greatest Olympic upset ever. I still don't know how. I literally do not even under my my favorite moment in there. I went to go see Carerell. he was going for his fourth gold medal in in Greco Roman wrestling And the place was packed. It was like a huge event for that sport And I remember U suuddenly, Rouan Carter gets a point and again, I don't know how. I just heard the crowd go crazy and then I saw a point up on the board. And then the clock was ticking down And and it looked like Rulon Garner was going to win. And I was looking going, is there a halftime? Like I literally didn't even know. it was over that was almost over. And then when when it happened, like five seconds beforehand, Carellan reaches out his hand in like in like defeat, you know. you have bested me. Yeah. you have bested me It was very much like very formal like you are you are superior or whatever and did I just watch? And then the story just gets better and better. He grew up on a dairy farm. He wrestled cows when he was a kid and the story just keeps getting better and better and better as it goes That's I've been to, you know, like all of it. like I've been like us lucky enough to do. it been to Super Bowls, been to the World Series been to a bunch of Olympics. That's the single greatest thing I've ever seen. I don't know the rules. I don't understand the sport but I think that's like you don't have to. You don't have to Yeah that's So much of it is just like it's what you're seeing happen in front of you and what you're feeling from the rest of the crowd. That's right What through all of these experiences that you guys did eighty two thousand four hundred and ninety miles between you. what have we what did you learn about fandom that maybe you didn't know before or that surprised you the most Well, a key part of the the sort of thesis of the book was we spoke with a professor Um who his name is Daniel Wanney. He teaches at Murray State. He's been studying sports fandom specifically for his entire academic career. And he came up, we sort of ran this theory by him of what we thought fhantom was, and he helped us like alter it and change it and and phrasee it. And there were certain things that I think we knew intuitively and he agreed with, right? It was like life is Life is lonely and sports creates community. That's a huge part of it. We all know that Life is chaotic and sports creates order. Like you can schedule, you know that the Super Bowl happens in February. you know that baseball starts in April. And you people kind of organize their lives around it. It was part of what made COVID when COVID hit I felt disordent. like we're not hitting the It's supposed to be M madness right nowere is baseball? Yeah, exactly Uh and then there's, you know, there's a there's a lot of rules like that that that you understand the role sports plays in. But the thing that he said that really sort of changed my feeling about sports was he said, lookook, if sports were just like fun and distracting That would be fine, but They wouldn't have a billion fans, right? There's a billion people on Eth who to some degree or another care about this thing veryer deeply in many cases. And instead of the reason that he studied what he studied is because he thought, well, if a billion people care about something, that must mean basic emotional needs are being met. L there is something that this is doing for us that is meaningful and important and what he said was like Being a sports fan u means that you are gambling a little bit of your emotional happiness. on an outcome over which you have no control And there's something kind of thrilling about that. And it means that you get terrible moments of sadness and dismay Boston sports fan you're here with me Joe's a Cleveland sports fan. He's literally there right now. Yep. Still there. But you also get moments where out of out of the blue and it might not be a World Series victory or a Super Bowl victory, but it's just a comeback win on a random Thursday night can send you into the world like with a kindind of a little burst of endorphins and a skip of your step. Yeah. And I said to him, U I asked him a question I have thought many times, which is I have often felt like it would be better for me, healthier for me If I weren't a fan of teams specifically, if I were just I love the NBA. I read a whole long chapter in this book about how much I love the NBA and what my history of NBA fandom is And I was like, wouldould Id be better off if I just loved the NBA? If I just loved the game? And he was like absolutely not. He'd shut it down. He was like, look If you had never been in love you would have had fewer days where you were sad, certainly. But you would have also had fewer days where you reached a level of happiness that you have never heretofore known was possible. And as soon as he said that I had there's a framed photo on my wall of me and my wife on our onn our wedding night, where she like had jumped into my arms and I'm holding her. it's the back of my head and it's her face. and it's the most purely happy I think I've ever seen her in my life still to this day. And I immediately thought of that photo and was like, that's what I that's what sports fans are chasing, right? We got it in two thousand four. Joe kind of got it in twenty sixteen when the cs won kind of. But if the Guardians won the World series, You would you would feel it. R. And so the idea that it is part of what is good about being alive on Earth is chasing that feeling gambling and risking a little bit of our lives on this thing, I think that's a deal worth making. and When he said it like that, we interviewed him at the very beginning. And that sort of sent us to these events with a different understanding of what we were looking for and what we thought we would find, you know That also is really interesting because it makes me think about why I I really lohe that sports and literally gambling have become terrible Hand in hand. Terrible. And I think that's probably part of why because for me The emotional gamble. has always been there. And if you replace that with a financial gamble, It's a completely different expere different. And and it's not that I'm against, you know, I don't draw a hard line of like, don't ever put any money on anything. I don't I don't I'm not even against the actual practice. It's the way that Every sports everything now is brought to you by some gambling. Yeah. And like the gambling during the broadcast. I mean the majority of our sports fandoms, that was not allowed in a huge way. gotot you banned from baseball is like hugely bad to even mention allude to a line or something One of the funniest things and saddest things at the same time The reason There is a baseball commissioner You right is gambling. That's the the point that he was there like this is bad. We gott to bring in someone to stop to see literally just to stop gambling. You have no other powers And then he came in and like I want all the powers and they were like, just stop gambling. whatever you have to do And now the commissioner of baseball, the guy whose job only exists He's out there cutting deals with everything s. It's been so But you said it exactly the way I feel because I think about like I don't personally, I don't gamble, but I don't personally care if people want to gamble. That's fine. I mean, it's all you can afford it, you know Fine, do it What you said is right, we are replacing something that's precious, which is gambling our happiness, gambling our mood, gambling like a part of who we are for gambling money and and if we lose, that's a different Link Snding us into a little bit of a depression is one thing. seending us to like you know, literally have to go borrow money from our parents is a whole other thing and it's it's It I guess I'm a I'm a like a old like nun or something because I do think it's bad and I don't think it should be allowed. And like I I have an eighteen year old son and I talked to him about this all because you have to talk to him's obsessed. And I was like, listen, man, like this ruins people's lives. Yeah This is a this is likely to escalate so And I know his brain and I know how he thinks operates and I was and so I made him do an experiment, which was I was like, listen to these three, I won't name them, but like listen to these three experts and they're going to make their picks and then you're going to on paper that on these games. And these are the these are three people who ostensibly know more about football than anyone else in the world Of course, they went like, you know, they won like forty two percent of their bet. So I was like, so these people know more about their job is to do this. And they if you bet the way that they told you to bet, you would have lost more than you won. And that should hopefully teach you that like this is a losing proposition. The house always wins You cannot get involved in this. Mike and I were going do something podcast we were to do like an NFL gambling segment where we were literally going to like go, okay, let's break down this Bengles Bears game and then we'd break it down and say, okay at the end, what do you think bet this game. Thats would always be don't bet on the game. I mean, if like If there if there's any possible way to avoid it, you should avoid it. and I understand I know I'm an old prude, but I think that it's Both replacings it takes the place of this thing that Professor Wan was talking about But it also is just like, don't you just want to enjoy the sport? Like that's what I don't. People will a lot of people who do it will tell me. I need a reason to watch this game. Gives me a dog in. Yeah. And I'm like or just watch the game Just pick a team just like you can just do that. Why would why would I watch this like, you know, whatever, buucks Pacers game because Jonis is awesome and it's fun to watch Tyree Halliburton. Like I don't know. like that's and and I know I'm at the extreme end of the bell curve here in terms of how much I care about sports, but I love watching sports. I just I like watching regular season NBA games in November. I think it's really fun. People who don't do that who even who are sports fans or who feel like they need to like risk something. I can't access that and I again, I know I'm I'm not the standard here, but I just feel like the games are so interesting and the athletes are so incredible. likeike you don't need a reason to watch the brewers like Mizerowski's pitching. He throws one hundred and four just watchking amount of times he can do that in a game is I've never' scary. It's scary. Enjoy it now. But you because do you have this? I don't know if we haven't even talked about this I never, almost never watch a game where at some point during the game I find myself rooting for one of the two teams for and I don't even know why it always it happens. likeike I'll just watch like a random tennis match And after a set, I'll be like, I want that person to win. I just don't even know where it's from. You yout catch yourself Yeah, this is we're doing right now with with the Kicks and the championship I I have friends, we have friends who are saying like who are you going root for the next? we Never refer for New York. E. We love New York hate New York sports and I said I probably I don't know. I probably won't. You know, it's a New York team. I you know, whatever. And they just beat the cavaliers. It's like But you know what? once this series started, I'm all in. All crazy. Yeah. Are you feeling this too?. Isn't it? What are we doing? Okay, so you're one of the only people I can really talk to? Yes.. This is the I believe. first time in my life that I want a New York sports team to win anything. Can you think of another time I had a best friend who was a Mets fan that there was a post season run they went on that for a little bit I was kind of pulling for the bests I was born in nineteen eighty seven. so after the Mets Red Sox any sort of negativity probably would have been around. That's the closest. I've never felt like I feel and I still am uncomfortable. I don't say I'm rooting for the next. I don't say I want that but I am If I if If someone came up to me with a gun and I had to choose. and I like Weemby. I like the Spurs. I think this young sppurs team is exciting and terrifying. But there's just something going on Yeah with Nicks fans. And I've said because I live here And as a Boston fan, if it were any other of the New York teams, forget it. Bringing the whole city together, I would have to le. I would have to go. It would be making me miserable. I was at Hofstra when the Yankees won and I was like, this sucks. All right. I have Mike That' a great story for both have to tell you this story So I was here, I was running for Saturdayight Live in on nine eleven And it was obviously the worst thing that happened to America, to the city in my lifetime And U like two weeks after that or whatever a couple of weeks after that I got a phone call and said, you can't come to the office because there's anthrax in the building.us. because I was working thirty rock. Yeah. So it was just everyone's nerves were just so jangly. So the Yankees go on that magical post season run. They are down to their final out final strike. Tino hits a walkoff Homer. Jeter hits a walk offff Her It' Scot Broches, h'its a wk offffomer.ah blah blah, blah blah blah blah. And but It was really great for New York. Like I he was like it was the first thing that made New Yorkers feel like excited and happy and they raise everybody's spirits and they, you know, it was a it was truly wonderful. And I was at SNL after the Jetter Mr. November game And I think it was that game. It might have been one of the other four walk offs I had in that playffs and all these people were talking about people who aren't baseball fans were like This is so incredible what they're doing for the city and the way that it's like raised people's spirits. it's just God we just really needed this and Adam McKay was the head writer at the time turned to me and said, I mean, come on, even you must be rooting for the Yankees And I said, No, I'm fucking not. No chance in hell. I want them to lose.. I want them to be humiliated. I want Rivera to blow five straight saves. I want Jeter to strike out with the bases loaded. And they were all like, whoa. And I was like, you ask Excuse me. I don't know if I can curse on this podcast. I apologize That's exactly how I have felt about New York. Yeah. less so the Mets and the jets andetsets are jetsets. Yeah, But the Yankees h the giants because I'm like, where the hell did you guys come? Yeah. I know he But also it's kind of cute. It's like we had to lose a couple and they let them have it, you know? a little But this team at this moment,'m For some reason, I'm just like I like them. something match. And by the way, I love Weby. There's a whole chapter in this book about me going to see Weemby play in his ry year I love I love this firstse team. I want this firstse team to like I want them to battle OKC every year for the next ten years. They probably will. They probably will. But but for some reason I just kind of want the next to one. It's so strange.' feeling. It's so uncomfortable. Yeah U Where do you guys stand on bandwagon fans? Do you have any thoughts on this common discussion, which is that, you know, a lot of people now because the Kicks are doing so well, you've got people quote unquote coming out of the woodwork to support The Kicks, I feel like in my old age I've gotten to the point where I go Come on board. Jo. join in. I think we had we've had a couple of conversations along the lines of like Genally just enjoy whatever if look if it makes you happy now you're a Kicks fan, you know, the suddenly you're, you know, you you're a big Dodgers fan and that makes you happy We don't understand it again. Not a purity test. Not a purity test. However Bandwagon fans who take good seats from good Oh, that's bad. That's bad. L like It'sm like when you're an ally and they say, donon't center yourself. Don't set to the front and lead. just act as like a way to amplify the to be back. But in the when the Red Sox started winning in the in zero four and after very disparaging and misogynistic term popped up. Do you remember this? Oh what? pink hat? Pink hat. And it was because they started manufacturing pink Red sox hats for, you know, for girls who wanted to join. And there was a there was a particular toxic strand of Red Sox fantom at the time that referred to anyone who is a bandwagon fan as a pink cat and it was like you weren't here through the suffering. and I was I remember thinking like So sorry. you guys want to prevent people from rooting for the team that we like and also by the way at a very basic level like preventing women from being around being strange And then but also like you don't want another revenue stream to help this team get money to pay free. Like what it's such a I think it's a really When I In the old days, the worst thing you could do was fall in love with the band after they went mainstream. That was the Yeah. Like I remember when REM released Green and I was like, I like this album and people were like, you didn't like their first you didn't like fables of the recconstruction or whatever. was like real Yeah. like that that stuff, I think is toxic and we should we should move I agree. somebody who I think, in my youth even participated. Oh hundred percent use it as a way to go, you aren't like me.. I'm better than you.. I know more than you. And you go into other situations, you live your life and you go, o, in this situation, I don't know as much as this person and it immediately kind of whyy would you just the real question is Joe's question, which is why would you deny anyone modern world actually now. Yeah, especially So okay, Ns fans hop on the b. Hop on and plenty of room. Another fun thing with fans in the news right now, I wanted to see if you guys saw and if you had thoughts. I know we've been dreading a little bit the World Cup coming because it seems like the infrastructure around it is kind of a mess. Yeah especially for met life, it's like you can't tailgate, you can't drive, you have to take the train. you can't walk. it's like a marsh that's in the midle. You have to take the train and it costs seven hundred forty dollars. They're like closing Penn station for four hours before every game, which is like a major transportation hub a lot of international fans bought tellels in New York because they thought it was a New York game, not realizing the game is in New Jersey. So it's like a lot of headache around the worldorld Cu So great. I remember going to a giants game and we were we were driving around, we got lost as you will, driving trying to get there by driving. And we get there and we're across the highway and we can see the metallandands. The worst part we're like, it's right there. It's right there. How do I get to it? And we said to the police officer like, hey, how do we get to the metal lands? And he goes,h, you gott to be born there. That's true. It's true. you got to be born there. and you die there, waiting you're in that wed line with there. Yeah there is there was a nice an unexpected storyline I saw of these international fans that are going because these games are happening across North America. and some of them are happening in smaller parts of the country that maybe internationally people aren't as aware of. And so we've seen like there's a German fan who is over here for the World Cup who has been experiencing the American South and tweeting about it in a way that's I'm veted. He took a picture of him of what he got at a Chil' and he's like, this place is magical. Yeah. there was a I think it was a Dutch woman who tried ranch sauce for the first time and she was like, we need ranch sauce over in our country. There is I saw an elderly couple in Kas I guess the Algerian soccer team has made a small town in Kansas their home base. And this couple was like out in the streets letting them know like we're rooting for Algeria. And the Algerian news was like, what do you know about our country? And the guy was like, we're learning. I know that in the south it's the Sahara desert and I know that you guys gained your independence the year that I was born. It's just like seeing people I don't know, this crossing of cultures has been kind of like surprisingly very nice. It's what you want. Yeahly what you want from these things. So my daughter goes to Wake Forest. That's where the German team ising and. So this is in Winston, Salem, North Carolina. and It is so funny. everyverybody in Winston Salem are now German fans. R Just like they're fans of this thing and they and people they they they open up practice and said, yeah, we'll open up practice and you know, you can get tickets. I think it was free. get tickets. The tickets were gone like thirty seconds later. And it was so many of them were just locals who had no, you know, knowledge no anything and I mean, that's That's what it should be. That That that was the dream, right? The dream was you bring it here and you bring it to all of these places in Canada and Mexico and throughout the Midwest and south and and All of these people are going to be exposed to this incredible world game and exposed to the world. and that's What's depressing is They're suppressing that. That was that would be the natural reaction and all of this other stuff is just suppressing what what should be amazing. If you if you just let it happen exactly. it will be great. And it feels so strange to read story after story about throwing up roadblocks to like allow it to happen. Where's Morocco training? because there's a very good chance with as good as that team is that are going to really fall in love with that te. I keep thinking like that they're going I feel like they're going to make the the like final four and it's been really fun to imagine like people in Wichita, Kansas, or wherever Portland, Oregon, suddenly just everyone wearing a Morocco Charse Jersey. Yeah, I mean,'s they're going to root for somebody because I don't know far the United States is going They don't gray no. They don't look great. And they look okay, you know And I Rve, I'm gonna to listen. When it starts USA USA But if we don't make it out of the group stage, which would be crazy. I think we should make it out of the group stage It looks like the group thing is okay. If not it's just like you're going to have to find a secondary team. I don't want toune out of the World Cup. you're going to find somebody and now it seems like Morocco could be a good one. I also got a Japanese kit because I like the way it looks. Oh it does look I've never chosen a team based off of the fit. It's kind of refreshing. No reason I feel like this is why picked it So what? Yeah I like it for this reason. C. So what? Okay, because you guys are obviously such big fans and you've somehow avoided, I was I was really gonna to grill you on the Browns, but we don't have time so we're gonna to leave it and we won't have to talk about any of the Miles Garrett or the Deshaun Watson of any of that and you're welcome. But you're such big fans, and then you spent How long was the second? a year and a half of these trindps? year plus It's spe a year, I would say immersed in the hands on research. So to me, you guys are the closest we're going to get to experts on fandom. in this room. I was hoping we could get your take on some popular Fan debates. G that happen throughout sports. Let's do it. Okay. so the first one is foul ball or home run etiquette Do you believe there to be any hard set rules? Like, do you have to give a ball hundred percent Not even a question notot even a question. I would say the only exxception to the rule would be if it's a home run it's in a meaningful home run, right? If you're at a world sereries game and Shoy Otani hits a walk offff Her as he will as he will. I would say like the guy who caught Freddie because also at this point those balls sell at auction for a million dollars or whatever. But foul ball, one hundred and one percent of the time you give that ball. What if this is your sixtieth game and you've never caught a ball? if you the rle of catching the ball, but give the ball takeake a photo of yourself holding the ballam with it and then give it to a kid. Yeah. That's correct. That's probably correct. What about the wave People have really turned on the wave in recent years. Do you guys feel strongly that it sucks or do you like it Okay. so this is So I I I don't do it. like if I'm in the crowd, I don't do it because I feel stupid. Cool, I mean, maybe it's just over, but I mean, not maybe. it is over and has been for twenty five years. But like When it started in Seattle, it was so cool and it still looks It does if everybody does it, which is funny because you are the guysy stopping from doing it. But if everybody does it does look it look good Now it does not look cool during like a playoff game. you're losing Sit down T pay attention. Yes. I don't like it and I don't do it. I don't deny anyone their happiness and I say go with God. I will say that it makes a lot less sense in baseball stadiums very frequently than in like footballs. I agree with becausecause there's a a big gap like at Fenway, there's an enormous gap I I will further say that the only time I've ever really been blown away by it was I was born in An Arbor, Michigan I went to a game at the B house and they at least used to do a thing where the wave goes around. Yay, everyone, it's, you know, massive bowls. so you it's fun to watch. But then they the student, I think it's the student section sends two waves around going in opposite directions. So they cross and they go back. Then they do a thing where they do a fast wave where it goes you like do that. And so it goes Then they do a slow wave. Then they do one where it's it's it goes fast, fast, fast, fast, fast and then one section goes really slow And then when they're done, it goes fast f, fast, f likeike they had variety organization on that. It was very impressive. It was incredible. And that was where I was like, okay, wave innovationight. Oh get Wave tech. wave new wave two point zero new wave they calling fr I missed it. It's very funny though like in a baseball game at a Finway, where there's that big gap And the the the on the other side of the gap has to wait about how long you wait It's beautiful go and then that person now it's now Yeah because they don't go right away because that would look crazy and ruin the flor.ight. There's something magical to it, but maybe it is annoying. Is it ever okay to leave a game early? Unfortunately, I live in Los Angeles and Dodger Stadium. it's a it's a ninety minute choice you're making. So regular season games, I often do I try to walk along the concourse and still see the game for the left field bleachers, but I' you're paying attention, but you have started But I had a head start. Yeah. I don't I do not believe it is ever okay to leave a playoff game early, I would say. Yeah of any kind. Can't because anything can happen anything can happen to be you don't Cveland actually wasn't it When Cleveland fans left and then had to run to try to get back into the or was it Miami? Mbe was Miami. I think it Miami Maybe e. I was I was there for the Braves P pirate game with the one thatsit Bream S. Oh, wow. people left that game like people they mean, you know, so yeah, you don't, I don't think a playoff game. it's okay to leave. I will say I've written years ago when I was, you know, younger and probably also Rip Bandwagon fans. I wrote something about fans leaving early and I got a flood of people We're not mean. But we're like I had to work at seven AM.ike I mean ye people do get very mad. Yeah have I kind of feel like it's like again, if it makes you happy, you know. There's a famous video of the Gibson Homer where when you see the ball landing be the part see the the brake lights of all the cars come on. it's wonderful. so funny. Is it ever acceptable to DVR the game? Oh a hundred percent Yeah That's all he does. Sick fuck. What are you talking? No, no, that's all he does. Listen, explain this. L Okay, two things. life is hard. People have a lot to do. Sure. People have kids, people have responsibilities. Yes, you can DViR the game, turn your phone off, don't look at the score and then go back. But I frequently DVR game, even that I'm watching live, just to sip zip through the commercials.art. So I get like a forty minute buffer and then I can do do. Like do it I do it nearly all the time. Yeah. Wh? I get it with the commercials. I understand that. I just feel like the live of it is my favorite part And so once it has happened, if I wasn't watching when it happened, then my superstition, my fandom didn't help. It didn't affect it at all. I hear you. I'm sympathetic to that, but like the like I was watching ah, cav or, um Nick Spurs game one and I had been at work all day and I was watching the game and then my wife came in and was like, Hey, we have a lot of stuff to go over with the kids and we got to walk with dogs. And so I was like, boo And then I walked the dogs and we did a lot of family business and then I came back and I picked up right where I left off and it was fine You know what I mean? Like I think if there's two if it's look if it's my team and it's the World sereries Superowl I would never but it but the average game, yes, I think. I Eirely opposed to it. Just for the experience is just not the same. I don't like that when I watch a game on YouTube TV, I've got like a ten second gap. I hate that. Sometimes I'll be watching something on my laptop while playing a video game and my fiance will be in the other room watching it on a and if hisV is ahead of my laptop you're swiling it for me. I know. Well or you'll get a textbook Yeah it happens. The MLB app is a good fifteen seconds ahead of the broadcast. Yeah. And so you see like strike three and you're like A little bit frustrating. Okay, best sport to watch live person in person at the game You guys have done so many, so it's actually harder for you, I think than the average Baseball Yeah. I think baseball still the best live. I just think it's because of the whole experience One that's Actually I'm going to take it back He's the best live because it's the biggest difference between television and Yes It's so much easier to watchve is So much more fun. That's a good call. The worst live is footballot I will say percent. I would say the I've only been to one Mahockey game in the last like fifty years. I can't really say it. I will say that the experience of watching the NBA live for me has has nearly caught up to baseball. I love love watching NBA games in person. I think it's So I think you're seeing like the absolute limit of what humans are capable of That's where you see how big. Tall they are. It's true. It sound so stupid, but the first time you go to an NBA game live you veryer tall. Every person.'s the firstact every person is I didn't realize they were that tall. When I was coming back to NBA fandom, I went to see the Oklahoma City Thunder with the Westbrook Durant, Harden here And watching Russell Westbrook in at the height of his power and explosiveness was something close to a religious experience. And I so but I think for an experience, like a summer evening baseball baseball kind of kind of campt It's nothing better. Guys, Big fan is the name of the book. It's out now. go get it. It's a blast. I can't vouch for the second half of it But the first half of it, I'm having a really fun time. I'm glad. It's fantastic. Mike Joe, thank you guys so much for being here. This was awesome. It was so great to see you and go sports. Go sports. G sports It presresents a thirty second podcast between your podcast Today's story is shared by one of our listeners. It's called Betrayed by Bill. It was in that moment I caught who was staring back at me in betrayal, or more like what My insurance bill. And with trembling hands I grabbed my phone and switched to Geio, saving about nine hundred dollars in the process and never to be betrayed again Now that was bloody riveting. It feels good when the story ends with savings. It feels good to Geico. Monday AI agents took over my work And I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders, agents handle the daily grind now. They live inside Monday dot comot So they see the full picture, My work, my team, the whole company. And I don't have to worry about the data. It's safe, which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff, knowing everything runs smoothly in the background It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday. com Okay, we're back. Why do Why do I smell like bugs spray and I must have worn this to. I gotta wash this shirt. Hey, so we're at the end of the podcast, but we like to look into our inboxes every now and then because you guys send us great emails and great voicemails, and the show really is about you. And so we only have time for a couple. But Brady, can you do me a favor and stand in for Chris here and pull up that email we got from Derek day. Yes, Derek says Hello, Katie in the casualties. I was listening to a recent episode after I had picked my daughter five about to start kindergarten up from her summer camp She kept repeatedly asking, when are they going to talk about me I don't