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Shay Shay Media & Playmaker

Reflecting on Great Athletes Named Joe

From Deebo and Joe - Part 2: Tom Brady considered unretiring + Avril Reese viral video + Barber does his client DirtyMar 27, 2026

Excerpt from Club Shay Shay

Deebo and Joe - Part 2: Tom Brady considered unretiring + Avril Reese viral video + Barber does his client DirtyMar 27, 2026 — starts at 0:00

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He revealed that he explored the possibility of unretiring a second time, but was rebuffed by the league when he breached, I guess, the broached the the when he went for the subject. Y'all need to use some other fucking words. He went and talked to him about the subject. Don't give me words I don't damn understand. Okay, and um he said he said I actually inquired, they didn't like the idea very much, so I'm going to leave it at that. We explored a lot of different things, and I'm very happy. I'm very happily retired. Let's just say that too . What he's saying ? What he's saying, Joe. I'm gonna tell you what he's saying. He's saying he needed to go back. And I think he was still in the contract with the Bucks anyway. So the first thing gotta happen is they gotta activate him and then they gotta trade him or they gotta release him from his from his rights under that contract if he wasn't going to play for them. And then after that you still have to go and be reinstated by the league as well. So he probably saying the league was like, yeah, that's what he said. The league wasn't like, yeah, you ain't you ain't coming back, baby. You know, you got a lot of things going on right now, you know. So we got issues. We got a bad position with you right now , anyway, with you being an owner doing media and everything else. You know, we ain't about to go ahead and let you be do all that media owner and be playing for another team. You know, I don't know. I don't know. What do you think, Joe? You did you hitting it on the head? Like Tom Brady, we already got the ownership going on with the broad with the broadcasting. And then it's just too many cahoots going on. You know what I'm saying? Like you, got your foot in every and everything. So the league is like, no. They've been in it, dude. They've been in groups. Already been in the rules. They like, do you just want to keep letting make it expose for how much we just rock with you, Tom Brady? Like, we rock with you so hard, you could come back and still own the team and then it's then you have to stop the announcing. But I'm like, Tom, you're chilling, you're at $35 million a year announcing, being part owner of the of other the Raiders, like , I don't know. He just doing a little bit. It's a lot. And he's getting Tom Brady. He's older. Like he was already old. And then taking the years off, chilling to the body. Phillip Rivers, did he see I'm thinking everybody's looking around? Flacco, Tom Brady. You see Phillip Rivers come off the jump, just off the couch, trying to sling the ball in a professional football game. That was nuts to me. He did good and made it, you know. He couldn't throw it as far , but they they when you see somebody else doing it. I was I was like, woo. Yeah, I was glad he made it out, man. Man, that man wanted to unretire a second time. You know what? I'm gonna go and I'm gonna see, I'm gonna call him up, see what the process is, and see if I can see if I can unretire a second time. Debo, you don't mean it . You don't mean it. I'm about to go and see. You don't mean it. I'm dude. I retired one time. I came back. I might, you know, I might I retired again. I might I might have to make a double me. I just want to see what the process is . I'm just telling you, D. But all that, I'm telling you, you the looks can be deceiving. Wait until you get out there and get the running around, putting those pads, getting that weight on you, it's gonna be different. You look good. I saw you doing the arms and stuff curling. Hey, the weight back to playing weight, Joe. You're not playing weight. Yes, I am. What was the playing weight? 258, 2260? Playing weight was anywhere between 242 and 265. Well, I've been as heavy as 286. 286 The Super Bowl we won. I was 286. When you got older, did you start going down? Because 286 and to 248 is a long season. So when I first came in, I was 242 . My my my best plan weight was probably between 2 55, 265. I'm 248, almost 250 right now. So I'm there . I'm there. Joe, and I got room to go on here and stack stack stuff back on. You know what I need to start? I need to I need to start seeing your lateral movement. You know what I'm saying? Your burst, your speed. Cause you could look you look good i'm i'll i'm playing weight right now i'm i'm gonna get all that i'm gonna i'm gonna get all that for you man i'm gonna i need to get footage of you because i'm seeing you lifting i'm seeing that i need to see you activ ely moving and then i'll know. Bhru, my listen, I told you with my I took listen, I told you with my times. I'm gonna go and do it. I'm gonna go and Debo, you keep telling me them times from back in the day. You are I'm gonna do a pro day seven years old. I listen I'm going to I'm going to A Z. I'm going to A Z making my voice and all that right. So come come come come mid-July, end of July. I'm gonna go ahead and video my pro day and have it ready to go. Please tell me exactly when you're going to be able to I ain't gonna say I'm gonna f fo three. I ain't gonna I'm pulling up. I'm pulling up. I want to see what my own two. I'm gonna record it. Myself. Okay. You let me yeah, for sure. That's no that's that's no problem. You know who won't be participating? This guy right here. Hey Joe, it's okay. I got pinched. Hey, I keep talking about it. All you gotta do is make sure your trigger finger right. Matter of fact, I'm gonna get you I'm gonna you're your laser time. I'm gonna bring the digital. I'm gonna bring the electric time and I'm gonna make sure everything like it like it would be at the combine. Yeah, yeah. I need all of that. Oh, that's going to be hilarious. And when you see these numbers, I know you're let me tell you something. You're gonna you might break you one thing, you might break the bench record, but after that, I'm here for all of that I'm here for all of the three cone I'm here for all of the vertical I'm here for all of the 40 I need to see this athleticism depot oh you all of it listen you go see it at by then I'm be 4 8. You go see it at 48 . Like and running. All right. I turned 48 in May, and I'm gonna be doing it then at 48. I believe in you though. I want to see this. I know I believe in you. Man, I just I believe in you more than I believe in myself doing it. Hey , listen , if you don't if you can't believe in yourself, then who can you believe in? Me. You you me? I believe my brother Debo because yes, I that's for sure. Hey, you got you got you got belief for both of them. You got your Lord and Savior first, then you got Debo . You know it. You know it. You know it. Debo. Notre Dame running back. Jeremiah Love spoke to NFL teams and said why they should draft him. Listen to this, brother . I'm a pretty simple guy. Um you draft me. I'm not doing too much of nothing other than football. Like outside of football, like I'll go out here and there. I'll go out here and there. But I'm the type of guy, like my perfect day after a game, go home, play video games, talk to whoever I wanted to talk to, um, and watch anime. So I'm a simple guy. You're gonna get uh strictly a football player with me, which is what you want. You know, it's gonna be my job. So um I'm gonna take it very seriously and uh I'm gonna give you my all and I'm not gonna call you no type of trouble hey joe hey joe what's up brother hey hey look here i i like what he's saying joe i i i like what he's saying because what he need to realize if you if you fragle rocking if any of GMs or teams are worth a grain of salt they go go ahead and check into this and make sure you ain't just you ain't just saying this and it's true now just talking okay Joe? Ye yeahah, ye,ah. Now if it's true, Joe. Hey. Put your GM hat on, Joe. What you go do, Joe? Joe, what you feeling? What's going through your head, Joe . This is what I'm saying. I'm obviously if I'm a GM, I'm gonna know. Because Tim Tebow was a teammate of mine in college and he practiced exactly what he preached. All the all the Christian, he didn't drink, he didn't, he didn't curse, he didn't go out. T Bow was a man, I love Tebow. Great Christian man. One of my best teammates of my of my life. Just really solid, solid, grain of earth. So anybody ever talks about Tebow of like, how was Tebo? I'm like this best, best dude, hardest worker, worked hard, did all of that. Me, same thing. I'm solar to the earth, but I will go outside. I will, I will go party when I was younger in college. Like I would go out, have a good time. You stopped when you were young. No, no, I mean when I was rookie in Cleveland until probably until I got really I got married, I got locked in. Me and Moo probably my second, third year in the league. I did it for about two years in the league, but I had a good time. Just, you know, nothing crazy. Innocent, good innocent fun. And I was out there balling, still perform. But I'm looking at it, you have players like T Bows. You have players like Naj ee Harris, TJ Watt, Minka Fitzpatrick, that if it's real, it's real. They really don't have too many other interests besides football. That like not like going out is a bad thing, but they really just don't hang out. You know what I'm saying? And for GMs, that is a really, really good thing. Because the main thing is the main thing. The main thing is football. Making sure that you're taking care of yourself. You're not going out. Those nothing happens good after those hours. So that's why you get it out of your system, like first two, three years, first two years in the league, and you understand it's a business. Like nothing, you out there having a good time. You can go to dinners, you can do that stuff, but nighttime is not for you. Most of the good players asleep. You know what I'm saying? So when during the season, if you really do have these dudes that are staying to the script, making sure that taking care of their bodies. And the earlier that you learn that where after like the your rookie season where you coming in, TJ Mincas, these dudes come in like that. They come in work first, you know what I'm saying? No, no bull. Some dudes come in like like the flash, like to go out, like to have a good time. And that's not a bad thing. They can still come in perform. But if you do have a legitimate guy that's like don't zero interest, in it doesn't really go out, doesn't really do that. And that's that's a guy that you know I'm saying that would kind of help your team because it just kind of eliminates that extra, eliminates the chance of him going out, being out at the wrong time. Something could happen, and maybe not because of him , but being the target, being able to be dudes are looking at you in that city. You might not want no trouble, but trouble just happens to follow you because you just in the spot. Everybody's looking at you. Everybody wants to be around you. So not saying that going out is a bad thing, but sometimes it could just put you in a situation to be targeted and you're not looking for trouble, but trouble could just come and find you. So the younger dudes that if they don't end up wanting to be out in the city, playing video games, anime, might sound corny, but to GMs. Oh, I love this guy. And if and if it's genuine, and if it's genuine, boom, be you. Come in here, do your anime, watch your cars, you know what I'm saying? Boom. You know that your player is chilling, and you know when he's at the facility, you know, everything is ever ything so uh I could see why if if that is him and GMs would be like okay boom that's that's smooth I know I can kind of exit that out but guys that do go out it's just uh another little layer it may not be bad, you know what I'm saying? 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Only at Mattress Warehouse. Yeah. Like um coach Lebo , he would tell us he say, look, it ain't no prize in the bottom of that bottle now. So be in a rush to get to the bottom of it. Okay. Hey good time, but don't go too hard now. Oh for sure. Everything in moderation, baby. No question, especially after the game. What was your day like after a game? Like a one o'clock game versus a four versus an eight? What what how how was you moving after the games uh one o'clock games man i was moving because my i had family always let's say home games family would always come out and uh we would go to dinner after the game and i will always like to watch the other games. You know what i'm saying? So dinner, probably at an exo, uh little steakhouse, man. Me, the family, eat, chill, vibe. Um, and then after that, probably go Sunday, probably depending on if we won or lost. If we won , might be linking up with the boys. We might hit up a little spa at the nighttime, have a good little vibe. Because we was in Cleveland. It was only two places that we went. We went to Barley House or we went to Rumor. It was two clubs. Knew the owners, knew the security, knew everybody, and it was always good energy, good vibes. We're coming here to have it. Listen to good music and just have a good time with our boys. Everybody get out of here safely. So, like that was my thing. Go kick it with the family, have a good dinner, have a good vibe, and hopefully, we won the game. And me and the boys meet up uh with either at Rumor or Bali and just kick it, have a good time, bro. That was my go-to game winner. Yes. Now I'm at dinner, watch some games, and my boys gonna go polit ic . Okay. Okay. I like it. What about you? Yeah, I'm a little different. You know what I'm saying? Uh one o'clock game. Yeah, we go eat, but we're going like to Fridays. We're going to Applebee's. You know, we ain't you know and gotta like that, Joe. Ain't gotta like that, Joe. There you go. There you go. Look, it's oh it's a meal. It's a meal. It's nothing crazy. You can go I'm just I'm just telling you, man. I'm just telling you, I'm just, hey, Joe. Like I said, nothing wrong with Applebee's. Nothing's wrong with Applebee's. Four o'clock game, I might might stop saying thing, get you know, get get get something to eat. Now, eight o'clock game, just going home, lay it down, go to sleep. I'm pounding water though. I'm trying to get water in me just to try and rehydrate. Now, if it's like one of those four or eight o'clock games that's away, it's a little different. I may land at three, four o'clock in the morning. I'm going straight to the gym, hit the gym then get done after that and you know chill then so i just i just it depend on the timing where we're at if it was home away but you know, we we ain't listen, we ain't gonna. I mean if I was feeling good, I was feeling good and I was feeling you know like we might go to Longhorn, you know. See now when I was in Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh after the games every time Eddie V's every time see I ain't bruh Eddie V's I ain't gonna lie to you that I ain't never I don't think I ever ate an Eddie V's see your ebo, why are you acting like I ain't lying, Joe? You be acting like you act not I know to say cheap, but you act like you act cheap sometimes. Like you can't eat a Joe. You do got it. You matter fact, you Debo, you're lying because when we go out to eat, you don't want ordering the Caemas. Yeah, let me get that Caemas. What about that? What about if you want to get ordered a bottle of wine? I do not drink Caemas. What would you order? You order a bottle of wine, you order something. What'd you order? Silver Oak? You ordered one of the or two the something? I did not, I did not, I did not, I don't, I do not drink came. I drink Cayman's special select. Special select. That's what I'm saying. It's type of you said came is that special select. You talking about I bougie, I ain't spend money. You talking about me and you talking about the type of cameist. Oh no, it's a special select cameist. Look at this man. You be lying to the people. I ain't lying, dog. Call them in the act. Hey, hey. Hold him in the act. Listen, real talk. Go to go to the front, it ain't even there no more. They tore it down. But matter of fact, Reesa, ask Reesa. She used to come in for the game. Fridays, real talk . Deep. We we we we 10, 15, 20 deep. Real Pittsburgh Eddie V's, man. That joint sla ps. And I knew you have not been, if you ain't been for real, where is it at? Where is it at? Before I start? Downtown. It's right next to the hotel. Literally. I take it back. I went there. I went there for uh uh uh rookie dinner one time because I wasn't paying. What's that pent? What's that hotel called? The Penn Williams? The William Penn? Is that the William Penn? It's next to the William Penn. Because when I first next to the one. I ain't never been there then, I don't think. For real. I thought I thought you were talking about the one that was like across from the the one downtown like by the substation or something the it's downtown no the one from the old hotel we don't know about the old hotel we don't know about the old hotel i think that's the old next to the old hotel i don't think I ever been to Ed of these then. See you wow . I got I've been to um that's where we go on when we come when I come back. Hot what's the name of the one place? I've been to High Park. You've been to High Park, you've been to off the hook. Off the hook. And then you've been to the one of the Snapper Prime. Okay. Morton's. Ruth's. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That was all rookie dinners. Do you both shut up, bruh ? You got money, but you acting like you ain't got it. This man is. Oh my goodness, bro . Nah, but I say all that to say that good old running back staying out the way. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. All the way down. Loving that. Loving that. Yeah, coach. Everybody loving that you're running back coach he loving that mm-hmm they say um what's dude's name uh state reese arvell reese. Yeah, Arvell reese . I guess they're saying he uh he went viral on social media. They saying the social media team did he dirt did him dirty. Uh look at the video, bruh. I don't Let me see . Oh . What's dirty ? Can you replay that? Am I missing something It's just they trying to um once you looked at like the dude, I looked at it first and kind of didn't really know what was going on, how bad, not not not how bad, but what everybody was looking at, and then until you see like other dudes running it and it's just the bend, Debo. You saw he was kind of like chopping around the uh chopping around the things. It just didn't look too explosive. Do you know what I'm saying? Like when you got the other guys doing it i i i i saw the dude from uh the university of miami probably the uh the d same position but he just were they doing it at the same place no no that was his pro day and then they then i looked at video a of the dude doing it at the uh at the university of Miami's pro day and it just looked not as explosive like when you really kind of sit back and look at another one, Debo, of the same drill on a pro day and see just the bend, how low they're getting coming around that corner, how explosive they're coming up out of it. You know what I'm saying? It just looks like that wasn't his best rep. He looked like, you know what I'm saying? Like he was just kind of like he was kind of warming up a little bit, like he wasn't really like exploding taking it as serious so when the other dudes did it it just it just looked like why would you post that and be like oh no social social media like look like look at this rep like if you're gonna post a rep post him going hard like, getting Ben, like get making making that drill look good. Like that didn't look as good if you were to look at that one and then look at another uh linebacker doing that same drill. You know what I'm saying? So that's why I think people were saying it. But at first, when I first looked at it, if you just look at it off the rib, I'm like, okay, you know what I'm saying? It didn't I didn't see nothing. It didn't look too outrageous. But then when I saw other people, just the the way they're supposed to be done. I thought you're just supposed to run around it, you know what I'm saying? Chop a little bit. Yeah, but see, that's what I'm saying. Like you you looking at somebody else's drill. He being worked out by somebody else. You got one rep. You ain't seen other ones. I don't know. I think they trying to make a little bit too much of this because you don't know what he was told by the dude who was running the drill as far as how he wanted him to cut around the things if he wanted him touching the bags rubbing up against bags not touching the bags y'all don't know what the whole directive of what he was told to do in this drill. So to go over the top and just assume that he was told to do what everybody else did, uh I don't know about that because he did sprint off out on the last one and and you know hit the bag so who knows like let me see three more other takes and then i will agree or disagree on the you know the movement stiffness the no being whatever they want to call it gosh lack of so like no i'm with one you looking at one red like i like the way you i like the open mindedness debo for sure because i'm saying you never know how we was supposed to do it were you not supposed to be able to touch the floor they want you kind of avoid the bags you know because i i don't know if you run in if they were doing the drill together you know what i'm saying then you could kind of tell if somebody doing the same drill in the same line as them, you never know like if what the coaching of this drill is, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, for sure. For sure. I ain't gonna lie to you. I'm trying to figure out what was going on and I'm looking at the video, I'm like, what is they talking about? Like, is they talking about the dude in the back with his shirt off? I'm like,, nah they was talking about buddy running the room. So at first when I first looked, I didn't see it. I didn't know what was going on, but then it if I don't know. Yeah . Social media, baby. That's just how it's social media. That's just how it is. You know, everybody got a little matter of fact, bruh, bruh. Bruh . Look what this barber did to this man's head bruh . Bruh. Oh love. See. See this man look. Oh my god. See, no, see, that's one of them. Joe. That's it . Honestly , that's not okay . That's foul . Somebody you can't he's pushing he's pushing that man back so bad. Bro, this gotta be a skit . It's gotta be. Bruh, that no . Like, look, Joe. Like run that back again. Look how far he cut into that man's hairline. Debo this this there's no way that this can be like a barber really messing up somebody's head. He has to know this man or has to be a punishment. You know how the parents would just come just you know, bad grazed home, bad raised at school. Ain't no way nine, two . Ain't no way in hell, bruh. Like that has to be a son . That's the only way he's sitting there that patient. Taking that taking that. That's like taking a whooping. He's sitting there taking a whooping on top of his head. Bruh, this the thought of this, like being real. Listen, hey man, get the kids away from the screen right now because I'm about to crash out. Okay. Bruh, bruh, y'all got the kids away. Y'all got the kids away. Oh no. Listen . The second that nigga cut into my hairline, bruh, I would have been whooping on his ass, bruh. Had to, bro. I would have whipped his ass, held him down, and cut a stripe down the middle of his motherfucking head, bruh. See? That's what I'm saying. I'm trying to tell you. And if I couldn't, bruh, if I couldn't whoop him, I'd have came back with 40 more, I'd have came back 40 deep and held him down and and cut a stripe down the middle of his head. You gotta go bald head . You gotta go instant bald head. And then he came in there with a head of hair. Oh my a four a great hairline. He had a hairline that was so far forward, you, you, you, you ain't had to do nothing. You didn't have to do nothing. That's what I'm saying. Barbers, he probably was trying to, you know, when they keep messing up, but he went deep into his hairline to try to make it straight like that. You can see where his hair is at when he cutting him back, Joe. Man, bruh. I'm telling you, that's so foul. Cause that that's this his hair's gonna grow right back. His that joint's not it's not it's never gonna be fresh. Oh man, they in the chat tripping, bruh. They in the trash trip. I ain't even saying that, bro. I ain't even saying, I don't even know what I don't even know what that means, man. Y'all can look at the chat, man. I don't even know what that means. Look at the chat, Joe, man. Just look at the chat real quick, Joe. Look here, man. This is no way, it's no way this was real. This had to be a skit. Like because I'm coming back 40 deep. If I can't do it myself, I'm coming back 40 deep. Like, cause you either go take this stripe down the middle of your head or you go take an ass whooping and we go give you this stripe down the middle of your head. After you can get my line like that, his line like four inches up further, closer than your line, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, huh? Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that's what I'm saying. I'm fighting for I'm fighting for my life. So only thing is if if if a barber came in there and tried to touch my line to push it back at all, I'm like this, don't do that. I'm already fighting for my life right now. So don't come in here trying to push it back, doing all the little crazy stuff, because you know that's why I don't play about mine. It's already getting, you know what I'm saying? Stephen A. Smith, he know like people want once you once you once your time starts coming. Once your once your time, once no, nope, nope. I gotta let 'cause once your time starts coming, Stephen A know that's my man and he knows he's his head gets to push back but that's that's age he get the push back it ain't nothing it ain't about getting it he he trying to line up with left bro he's trying to line up that's what I'm saying too but he's not line up with left. a Agege, , age comes, pushback. Age comes, you start some people start losing it in certain ways. To the sides right here, they front just starts to come back, and that's when dudes end up going ball headed. Look at my man. K D. No. It happens to all of us. Age happens. Hey, Joe. Look at you. Look at you. Hey. That's what I'm saying. You weren't always bald. Tell him where the line is. Show him telling where the line at, Joe. I can't. I don't know you're here. You used to be here, Joe. I think Hey, listen, Joe. And my top, look at my top, Joe. My top, roof open and all that. The roof open. And right here. I started to line all this up round here, down here, fade the top down, so I can have something to brush. You know what I mean ? Devo , I'm trying to tell you it's the path that we take. I know I'm getting lighter, I can feel it getting lighter . It's sad, but I'm fighting. So if the if the barber ever comes and get the pushing back my sides, it's here. But my barber doesn't. That's my good man. My good man Trav knows how I feel about my line and I need it because I'm fighting for my life. Okay? You you put up the good fight. Hey, you rocking the bald head. Hey, listen, the man don't took enough of a beating carry on in the house . Hey man, I said listen, man. Give me give me my ball, man. Hey man, go ahead, man. Manda took another . That's that's what I'm telling you. That's none of the dope. That's what I'm telling you right there. That man has a good hairline. His joint is not pushed back. That barber that's so foul. That man got years of good hairline. He cut off years of hairline . He's tripping. Yeah, it can't be real, Joe. That got that gotta be that gotta be like a that gotta be like some type of satire, like a joke. Like man. Like he was go cut it ball and they just went on head and that's his son. That's his son. He got bad grades that's the only way that he was sitting that that he was sitting that comfortable taking that whooping on his hairline you gotta feel you feel that air when he hit you play for who you gotta play. When you get traded, go there and do what you gotta do. Cause this you're hitting the lottery every year. You're playing in the league. You're making a king's ransom to play a game that we love to play. So do what you gotta do. Make sure that you're not just don't give yourself reasons to get cut, reasons to get chopped. It is what it is. I'm an X is the Nose kind of guy. I 'm sky don't lie. If you're not doing good, ah, if we gotta make some moves, ah, we gotta make moves. Moves are happening. You know what I'm saying? Loyalty, I'm gonna tell you what it is. I just won't be I won't be shady with you. Ask me what you want to know. I'll let you know what it is. Okay. Sometimes, sometimes I can't, sometimes, sometimes I can't. Sometimes I might not be able to be as straightforward as possible because I I''mm I'm because working, I'm working the deals. I am a man upper management. You can't know left hand can't know what the right hand's doing. So I respect the fact that you can't be telling me, you know what I'm saying? I'm a player, you are upper management. So there's still gonna be a relationship. It's gonna be a respectful relationship. But at least let it get to me before somebody telling me about it. Yes. Yes. Before Adam Sheffner drops it. Right. Before Adam Sheffner drops it. All right, man, look, pull him into the office. Boom, as soon as you leave, then Adam Sheffin's gonna know because the agent knows things are happening fast. So I'm gonna pull you in there, Cole. Boom, soon as you leave out of there, your ass is on the ticker. No question . What is this, Joel? Never bust again. Never bust. Never bust again is crazy. Yo, never bust again. Five dollars. Joe . What's the what's the Joe ? Joe. Who is you mean Joe ? Joe or Joe ? My man Joe. Who are we talking about? I don't know. Never bust again. You talking about never never mind. Never mind. I'm not gonna say you. Yeah, never, never mind, Joe. Joe. Yes, sir. Maybe talking about Joel Onstein. What's the dude's the dude's name ? Church

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