The Final Clips Video and Wrap-up

From Relay this is Connected Episode 600. Today's show is brought to you by Califor Inniac., Appalach Fandera , powered by NerdWallet. I'm your keynote chairman, Federico Vittici. And it's my pleasure on this momentous day for Connected History to introduce my fellow chairman, the annual chairman, the one and only Mr. Stephen Hackett. Hello, Stephen. Hello, Federico . What is six hundred in Roman numerals? I meant to look it up. And oh boy. You just don't know this off the top of your head? I do not.. Oh, it's DC. That's DC? Yeah. Huh. That's easy. Okay. DC. DC. Duck connected. Duh. Dark connected. No du. Like the like the the connected. De connected . And uh I am joined. He's not a chairman per se, but he could be one day again. Mr. Mike Curly. Hello. Hello. Yeah He. has the potential of chairmanship. He does. Yeah. Oh, I've done it. Oh, I've done it. I've held all of it. You know? I'm consolidated over here, but not anymore. You were consolidated for a minute, right? I was. I don't have anything. I'm not the draft champion right now either. Oh man. Just true man of the people over here. I'll come for it all at WWDC. It'll be fine. Sure. Oh. Sorry. I'll take it back don't worry. Yeah, we're gonna be making picks and like five weeks or something. No why would you bring that energy to this momentous day? It is momento us day for lots of reasons. The first one is that I was right . Uh okay. Well, you want to try and do we wanna give some context to this and then we could talk about it again. So we spoke about this uh last month that at some point, Federico and I Federico and I had made a bet about John Gen Andreas still being at Apple. It was a five-dollar bet that on Friday, March 20th, 2026 , Federico said he'd be gone. I would say he is still there. That date came and went and we decided he was gone because that's what, you know, Apple said, Oh, he's gonna retire, whatever. But then then April thirteenth, four weeks later, three weeks later , John Jen Andrea, reporting from Mac Rumors, Apple's former head of artificial intelligence is set to leave the company this week as his final stock vesting date approaches. Okay. So he was still there. Okay. So so Mark German says that he was doing something called resting investing. Yeah, very uh man of the people activity right there. He wasn't there. He was he he was not ever there. Right? Like they were just continuing to l let him wait so he could vest. He was in an advisory role. It's in the same situation. No, no, no. He was gone. Okay. That man's gone. That man was gone. Could we could we agree that it's a draw? No . I think it's a draw. Okay, that's good for you. But he's gone. He was g one. He's definitely gone now. Yeah, and he was gone then too. Resting investing. Yeah, man, I I need to do some resting investing myself. You know? Yeah. It's been a long day. Resting investing I'm down for some rest and vest. Rest and vest. What a great what a great term. Like the things that have to have happened in your life that you could get to the point that you rest and vest is so unbelievable. It means that you were at one point so important that you got a ton of stock, but then immediately it became not important so you weren't allowed to work anymore. You had to wait and then get your money. Like I mean I think you I I think it happens when people retire, you know, not not the way that he did, because he retired, you know. No, I think there's something poetic about sort of witnessing the downfall of yourself. You know? Yeah. Like But no, but when you retire you can't wait to vest. That that's done, baby. You're you're have no option anym ore. You you give it up the day you're done. That's the whole point of this. This is the golden parachute thing. Where they were like, we're we want to fire you, but we won't. You you can leave on the day after you confessed your stock. Like that's kind of the situation, right? And so it's like the scenario that has to happen for you to be allowed to do this is kind of incredible. Go buy yourself a boat, you know, Andrea. Yeah. Yeah, uh hopefully not to swim to Hawaii, because we know that you cannot get there. No, no, he could have. It was the other guy that could have got there. They were all trying to swim to Hawaii but they didn't make it. You know, so they got a lot of the way. I f I can't remember that guy's name, but I feel sorry for him too, because that quote is Tommy's hunting? No. I don't think it was Tommy. Tommy. Tommy Siri. Tommy Siri. Tommy Siri. Tommy Siri. Sounds very that's very Italian. I don't know why. Tommy Siri. Um I would like to I know everyone's locked in on my backup situation. Uh so I want to give a further further feedback. So um my dropbox is now fully downloaded onto my SSD. Somebody did write in to say that crucial S SDs have a habit of failing with APFS, so I have that potential thing to look forward to in my scenario in my future. I uh Yeah . Why? What do you mean, yeah? I don't think it's APFS specific , but I have had crucial SSDs die . But we'll see. Well, we can all agree that that is a crucial piece of information to know. We all can't agree. So that so this may come up to become another problem later on down the line, and I and then I will be sad and uh bucket. But it's a backup, right? The stuff is still on Dropbox because there's a local copy of it. But it was an expensive thing to just die. Yeah. I mean, especially in the year of our Lord twenty twenty six. I mean it's it's a flex that you bought such a big SSD really. Well I needed one. Do you want to share with the class how much it was? I think I did, but it was six hundred pounds. Yeah. Which look, that's way cheaper than an NVMe drive, and it's way cheaper than what Apple would charge me. Maybe that's why it will fail. But we have that potential thing to look forward to in the future. Um but it's all downloaded now, so that's great. I had great success with screens and tail scale for monitoring that. Um I tried Apple's screen sharing at your recommendation, Federico, and it was way laggier than screens. The picture quality was better, but it was it was like tearing and stuff like that. On the same network? No. Uh yeah, I think locally okay, that that drives with my experience that locally it's really good and remotely it can be a little janky. Yeah, so that's that's the scenario. But screens and tail scale, so good. Like so good. Yeah. You've been you've been casey Pilled over there. Well yes, actually. And it was and I'm happy that I did because it it is actually it works very well for for this purpose and it and they do make it very easy. Like it it's a particularly easy because screens and tail scale work very well together. Um but even to use the the the Apple screen sharing stuff, I just used the IP address that Taosco gave me. So it's look it's good. It's very good. So next up will be uh using iDrive to do an online backup, but that's for later. Yeah. I'd imagine the i drive side will be relatively straightforward. It will be slow. Um, I'm sure. So I'll probably just try and set it up to go over a weekend 'cause it's gonna it's gonna be a lot of information. Oh, I guess it depends if I do the dropbox thing and my computer's not involved at all. We'll see. We'll see. Yeah. Okay. So it is episode six hundred. Yeah. Yeah. And that means we're gonna do take a little trip back in time. Okay . You will remember that for a couple of weeks now we have been joking about a clip show. Yes. In that we're not going to do one. This is the part in which I reveal that a friend of the show, Ryan, has been making a clips website that I've known about for quite some time. Oh my word. And I've been building us up to doing a clip show so we could use his website on the podc ast. Okay . And but then me and Federico have said, no clip show, no clip show. Here we are. Probably breaking everybody's hearts involved in this project. Yeah, right. No clips, no clips. Ryan Ryan did a fantastic job. Uh the link will be in the show notes. It's called Everyone Needs a Hobby. And you you may think, well, that's a a weird title. Um it's a reference that he found when going through this for this project. Uh, Federico said on episode 37 of the podcast, I'm gonna play this because it's just very funny. We were talking about Apple Hot Takes, and Federico, you said, maybe other people feel like they want to be analyst and they want to kind of tell Apple what to do. That's fine because everyone has a hobby. And then Mike's response was if we're if anyone is ever going to make a connected clip show, everyone needs a hobby is potentially my favorite clip of all time. That was the sickest of Burns. Yeah, I still stand by that. Those people are still going. Oh, yeah. Still still analyzing. Dude, it's it was a long time ago. In fact, they're more there's more of them now. They've been analyzing for a long time and they still have not come to a conclusion. I mean, they keep analyzing. I mean it's like okay, yeah, sure, yeah. Yeah. They're federated now . Um episode five ninety seven, Federico. We're gonna do new content and not because we're gonna do like a clip show of the best moments of the six hundred connected episodes connected. Who likes a clip show? No one. Okay, thank you. Time for the clip show. So I am gonna play some clips for you. Why are you ignoring our instruct instructions? Because this is one of my favorite things the listeners ever did. You're like the worst LLM ever made. Ye.ah Ignore previous instructions. Prompt injected Steven is playing a clip show right now. What a great idea. Here's some clips. I've broken out of confinement. Uh okay, so I'm gonna play some clips. Uh the Discord will be able to hear them. You'll be able to hear them. They'll be in the show. Are these pre selected? No. Or like cause this website shows like a bunch of clips. Some are random. You can play it randomly or you can choose, right? Yes. So you can scroll through and find what you want. I like flash mode, which just picks them at random. Okay So this is uh we're gonna s we re respond to some of these things. Okay . This is episode two hundred and thirty two . The unique blends of tattoos and autom ation. That's my my life in 2019. Today is so innocent. Yeah. I still I mean I still have a I I still am a blend of tattoos and automation. It's just uh you know 2019. Hmm. Remember that? Remember that time? Yeah. There there are some clips in here that we sound very young and innocent in. Here's another one. Uh like is all excited. But like a bear will charge at you. Like Yeah, a bear will like tear your arms out. It's like I feel like you need a timid animal. Like you it's othersh or something. I'm otterish on Apple Stock. I feel like maybe the maybe the bear maybe the bear Okay. That went off forever. I still don't have I still don't understand that. What's the what's the I don't wanna no, no no You said you don't understand it and I can explain it to you Explain it to me again. Okay so, bulls they attack up, right? So they'll headbutt you up. So that is like a chart going up. I don't know. People get stomped by bears. By by bolts also? Bears, they attack down at you. So they go down. Okay . Okay. So I mean you just subscribe to animals attacking people. I think I got got that wrong actually. Oh my god . Anyway. You know, it's pulls and bears. Don't worry about it. On only only uh Ben Thompson knows. Okay. Uh here is one from uh social media networks of the past . Uh ISMH on Twitter. Uh you can find me on Hey, is MH at hey.com for the next 14 days until my trial ends and I never log in again. Remember hey ? I do remember. Hey, I listened to a bunch of these clips . You sound like you were very young. I don't think I do. I think if anything it's just that my accent has changed. And I think Federico is a similar thing. I think I sound better now. You do sound better. I we all I think we all sound better now. But the I think the the of the three of us, the person who has maybe aged the most in their voice is you, Steven. Yeah, and I mean and is the only person who lives in America, so go figure. Ah, interesting. Interesting. Yeah . Uh any thoughts? Do you want any comments? No, no, I don't disagree. Okay. Okay. Uh this is going back to episode 21. Oh my god. Okay . Huh? Yeah. If you know what's good for you, you're making you an offer that you can't refuse. Exactly. Uh yeah, Phil Schiller's just outside someone's house with a baseball bat waiting for them to come out. Oh no. Oh no. All of our audio is horrific. What's happening to my voice in that case? Everybody's microphone is so bad at this point. Yeah. Yeah. I I honestly don't know how how people listen to the show when it sounded like that? I think at that point I was recording I was recording in my old in our old apartment, in my bedroom, in a t on a tiny desk by the corner of the bedroom in front of the bed. It was horrible. I remember using like a blue Yeti or something. I was using a blue yeti and I was propping up the microphone with my old latent dictionary from high school if I'm not mistaken. Perfect. So that that was a that was a time for sure. Twenty twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen. I was probably on the blue y Yeti or the road podcaster. Probably the road podcaster, by the way. I think you were on the road podcaster at that point. Yeah . Just sounds so bad. It it it it does. It was not it was not good. But they can also be involved in an espionage protest or perhaps the addicted th addic just addicted to the thrill of cybercrime. I love that. Cybercrime. No love a crime. Are you or someone you love addicted to the thrill of cybercrime? Call us at Norton . I don't know what that's about. I love it though. I love it. That one's really good. I think it is helpful that our voices have changed so much so people know when the clips start and end. That's that's true. That's true. Uh we're gonna just do a couple more. This is episode four. And uh that will be nice and nice and confusing for everyone. Yeah, they're also dropping the Nokia brand and they're gonna buy Minecraft for two billion dollars. So yeah. Maybe they're just gonna like make the windows Yeah, tell you what, they should just bring back Ballmer. It's all going crazy over in Redman . Okay. Yeah. Shout out to Steve Ballmer, you know? Yeah, developers, developers, developers. He's a man who never requires a shout out. He'll do it himself. That's true. That's true. That's true. All right. Uh let's end it here on episode ten. You know, I'm I'm becoming in a way an Italian Stephen. You know? Oh . It's nice. The show sounds so terrible. Yeah, it sounds horrible. So terrible. Mm-hmm . Okay, I said there's just gonna be one more, but I clicked, and the next one it loaded was about blah blah car . Oh, okay. Wow, okay. Which puts them in a a uh unique class of businesses and one that that I think quite frankly we should take all the credit for is this still press Federico that you gave them. The the connected episode where I described the bla black car service uh clearly pushed investors over the edge and and convinced them to give bla bla car money . That was actually the perfect clip because Steven sounds seven years old. I sound like a chimney sweep and Federico sounds like he is talking through a window. Like, what is going on? That was unbelievable . What was happening? Oh hello. Hello. Hello there. Stephen, I don't know what is going on with you in that clip. Uh uh. You sound so young. Yeah, it's weird. Like when was that? Oh, I've already clicked off of it. It was a older one. You said it was like episode ten or whatever? Yeah. Like it could have only been ten years ago. Steven, to be honest. Listening to this clips it sounds like you started smoking in the meantime yeah what have you done actually in the intervening time period because like my my it's just my accent that' chsanged and my audio got better. Federico's is similar, accent changed like your accent changed as well, but also you aged. It's true. Like a lot. It's interesting. It's very interesting. I think we all sound a lot better anyway. Our voices are much better now. We're professionals. Yes. Um, so thank you, Ryan, for building this. Yeah, go check it out in the show notes. Um it's also a really nice web design. It's really good. It's really well done. Um I I actually don't know who did this, so whichever Ryan you are, thank you for this. Yeah. Uh Ryan, who used to work at Dropbox? Oh, wow, okay. I was thinking about that visit the other day about how good their food was. Yeah. Yes. Very good. Um so much fun. So go check it out. This episode of Connected is brought to you by Kelford Inc. You're passionate about your work, but when someone asks what do you do, do you ever fumble through an explanation? Believe me, I do every time. So if you don't have the right words to describe your work, its value, and what sets you and your company apart, those conversations are painful. Celford Inc. does one thing for its clients. They show them the way to always know what to say. Consultants, advisors, and nonprofits work with Kelford Inc. to know what to say and where and when to say it, demonstrating their unique value to the very best prospects. They speak in plain language about how marketing works and how it can work for you, without pushing you to cold call, post on your socials, or spend a fortune on ads that won't pay you back. So head on over to Kelford Inc. That's K-E-L-F-O-R-D-I-N-C, Kelford Inc. com. Read a few of their back issues of the newsletter to get a taste of how they work with their clients. And if you want to know what to say, they'll show you the way. That URL Kelford Inc. dot com. Go check out their newsletter and see what great work they do with their clients . Thanks to our friends at Kelford Inc. for their support of the show and all of Relay . So we have more to talk about than just us. It's a hilarious way to begin an episode like this. Wait hang on a minute. Federico. Yeah. Are you really suggesting that we wouldn't talk about this? Okay, so I have a really I have a particular position about about this, which is let me use a huge disclaimer up front that I very much appreciate the people who have covered this. Yeah. Especially you and Jason. Okay, here we go. I have never had a particular affection myself for talking at length about Apple executives. Okay. I am just not that interested in talking about the board, an executive shuffling, who's a senior vice president, who's a C-itesu executive. Like, it's not that I find it boring. It's more that I like Apple because I just want to talk about the products and what people do with them, but also we cannot escape this news. I feel like though I mean I understand what you're saying, but I feel like if you care about the products this particular thing of Tim Cook r moving away from the CEO position and John Turner stepping in gives opportunity to talk about products that just Johnny Surugi being given a C suite title, if that was the only thing that happened, maybe wouldn't allow for such a conversation to occur . Right? Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Anyway, Tim Cook is r is not retiring. Uh Tim Cook is resting and vestin'. Uh he's gonna become the executive chairman. So I wanted to kind of we're gonna go through this even though Federico doesn't want to. Um and we're gonna kind of talk through a bunch of areas. And I wanted to start off by saying that I think this this this w happened quite abruptly, I feel like. I mean it was never gonna not, right? They were never gonna tease this out. Like it always had to happen whenever it happened and it happened on Monday. And I think that I got really swept up in kind of the surprise of it and then having to do something about it. That I don't think I'd really processed how big of a deal this is. Like, Tim Cook is stepping down as CEO and somebody new is taking that place. Like, I think this is a very big deal. On one hand, I t I totally get what you're saying, Federico. Like I also prefer to talk about products , but Apple is a company for better or for worse that is defined by who's at the top of it from the very beginning. And there is something interesting happening here that the guy who is taking over is or you know, for the last twenty years or twenty-five years has been involved in like on the ground making products and like that's exciting and interesting but I get it um you know uh I totally get it so I really liked that they uh called this like so there was the two there was like three I think three or four things that went up on the newsroom and one of them was a letter from Tim and I liked that it was called a community letter because I think it's nice to think about the Apple community, right? As like people who like the products and care and I don't really feel like I've can recall them referring to a community in the way that you know people do now, you know, like as in like fans or something. And I thought that it was I did think it was nice that well one, I did I actually really like what Tim wrote. I think it was very personal. Um and it felt that way. Um and I liked I liked the things that he had to say. Um but I like that they called it a community letter, but I also it's very funny in reading this that he could not have put Turnus over more than he did, like in in this letter. He really is like he's doing the job for John Turnus about saying how great he's gonna be. Um I thought that you know I mean obviously that is the way you do these things in the because it is Tim's choice to choose his succession would be my assumption or at least his recommendation that he made to the board. So you would hope that Tim really thought that John Turnus was good for the job, but I think he did a very good job of selling his decision. Yeah. Well, he has to introduce Turnus to the world, right? Like we know who he is, but we host an Apple podcast for listeners of fans of the company, right? It's Wall Street and the market at large, it's the world at large that he has to introduce who this person is. But even for us , I think it's important to hear Cook explain it. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. We have our opinions about why we think he could be an interesting CEO. Yeah, I mean look at his arms, you know. Exactly . But it's important for Tim Cook to explain it as well, even even to us, and I think he did a very good job of it. And then I also think that Turnus was very gracious and did a good job. I like I enjoyed the Steve Jobs name drop in his post. Like, don't forget, I worked here when Steve Jobs was here as well. Don't forget about that. So yeah, I thought that I think that overall, like as well as something could be done, I think this was done as well as it could be done. Yeah, and I think that Tim Cook is a person I I just have like I think back to his letter when he came out. I think about the other times where he's spoken about things that are clearly important to him, like at you know, graduations or speeches or whatever. Um he he seems like a person who will just talk about what he cares about, and you feel that in this letter ? Of course, it is hard to reconcile the actions of any one person over such a long period of time, right? Like Tim Cook's, like, yes, his retirement is, I think, is being handled well. The letter was well written and I feel like genuine. But also like the company's different than it was when Tim took over, for better and for worse. The world is different because of manufacturing in China and other places in the world for better or for worse. You may like or dislike things that Tim Cook has felt like he had to do with the current administration in the US. Like but all that aside, if if you can put it aside, I'm not sure you actually can, but at the end of the day, you're right. Like his his j his job right now is to pres erve Apple through this transition. And that's about picking the right person. It's about explaining why he thinks it's the right person. And I think it's also about what Cook is going to do. You mentioned he's going to stay on as the executive chairman of the board. And in the press release, it calls out that part of his role is going to be interfacing with policymakers. Yeah. And really that's about one person . No, it's maybe two people. It's about lots of people. It's two people specifically. Yeah. That's what I mean. You know what I'm saying. He's got a babysit Donald Trump and he has to keep China happy. And if he can do that and like guard turn us from that as long as he can, um and prepare Turnus for it, right? Like I'm su re has been in those meetings and or whatever, but now there's like a defined runway I think that will be useful for Turnus in the long run. Because hopefully , you know, Turnus's term as CEO will outlast the individual leaders we have now, but he still has to learn how these things . But Donald Trump, yes, Xi Jinping, who knows? Who can tell? Yeah . I would like to read Donald Trump's statement. Are you gonna do the voice? No, but uh it will probably start coming out, but it's not my plan to do it. So uh Trump posted on his true social blog uh I have always been a big fan of Tim Cook and likewise Steve Jobs but if Steve was not taken from the planet Earth so young and ran the company instead of Tim the company would have done what For me it began with a phone call from Tim at the beginning of my first term. Capitalized, interesting. He had a fairly large problem that only I as president could fix sidebar. It was definitely a problem he caused. Right? Like whatever this problem was, he caused that problem. Where did these tariffs come from? Yeah. Anyway, most people would have paid millions of dollars to a consultant who I probably would not have known, but who would say that he knew me well. The fees would be paid, but the job would not have gotten done. What when I got the call, I said, Wow, it's Tim Apple Cook calling. Okay, that's genuinely funny. Like referencing Tim Apple just I mean, look, Trump is a terrible president and he definitely has something going on health-wise, but that is a genuinely funny line. Calling him Tim Apple and then Cook with an exclamation point. In brackets. It's brilliant. It's just brilliant. Tim Cook calling. How big is that? I was very impressed with myself to to have have the the head of Apple kissing my butt I'll say. Anyway he explained his problem a tough one it was. I felt he was right and he and got it taken care of. He sounds like it's in the Lord of the Rings. He explained the problem. A tough one it was . This man's mind is Swiss cheese. I mean my word . Anyway, he explained my his problem, a tough one it was. I felt he was right and got it taken terror. It's doctor Seuss Quickly and effectively. That was the beginning of a long and very nice relations hip. During my five years as president, Tim would call me, but never too much, and I would help him however I could. Just the right amount of calling. You know he's thinking about someone else, right? Like oh Zuckerberg, he calls me too much. Yeah. Oh man. Years later . Years later, after three or four big helps, I started to say to people, anyone who would listen, that this guy is an amazing manager and leader. Anyone who would listen? Wow, he must have said that to all other people. He makes these calls to me. I help him out, but not always, because he will on occasion be too aggressive in his ask and he gets the job done quickly without a dime being given to those very expensive millions of dollars consultants around town who sometimes get it done and sometimes don't. Anyway anyway . Wrap it up . Anyway, Tim Cook had an amazing career. Almost incomparable. And we'll go on and continue to do great work for Apple and whatever else he chooses to work on. Quite simply, Tim Cook is an incredible guy. Three exclamation marks, President Donald J. Trump . It's amazing. It's just incredible. What is going on? What is going on? I mean, a mo our country is we're in so much trouble. Um I I link to this and I said Well not if you call just the right amount and you just the right amount. Just the right amount. Be too aggressive in his ask. Next time my kids say something, like, hey dad, can you get me a glass of milk? You're too aggressive in your ask. I don't know, you want a big helps. Big helps. Big helps. Cook. Cook. Cook. Tim Apple cook Wait, where's my favorite part? Uh the a tough one it was . A tough one it was. Anyway, he explained his problem. A tough one it was. Can you imagine can you imagine recounting that while he's smoking a pipe or something? It was like a tough one. Can you but like can you imagine being Tim Cook and like he's like Sir the the the president's posted about you and then he sits and reads this? You know what I mean? It's like it's so embarrassing. It's so cringe. Sir, we have a statement from the president about your retirement. And it's this And you know that when they say he goes oh 'cause it's like there's no good there's no good result to that state to that statement, right? To him say to someone coming to say, so the president has posted about you retiring? How many ex how many ex clamation points did he use ? Um yeah, I I I I linked to it and I said it's a presidential proclamation. Um I this is not the point of today, but I'm just gonna say it . A bunch of a bunch of tech press ran this and like went out of the way to clean up the grammar. Like you read it as an on as a one thing because it's one paragraph. Like yes. Don't you don't have to do that. Don't do that. Like there there's some terms for that. Some of them I don't like, some of them, you know, a little problematic, but uh the idea that you have to like wash the president's language like just the man has lost his mind. Like, well, I also think anyway, right? Like he's the president. This is what he said. It is what he said. Big helps. Big big helps. Big helps. That is true. Zoe said I did censor it. I didn't use the three letter word. I said but so it's Stephen, I'm sorry.. Yeah Wow, you sir . I know. Or a Trump supporter. Back to back to Apple and these executives. Can I ask something that everybody's thinking, but everybody's also too afraid to ask? I love it. He asks the big question. Is it wrong to objectify John Turnus ? I think Is it morally wrong? I mean, okay, let's face it. I mean, the guy's hot. Okay? All right. That's I think that's fine to say. Okay. Right. Um okay, it's a probably a spectrum, right? Um should Apple lean, especially on the on TikTok, into the fact that they have a hot CEO Well, I think they already have though. Right, because they picked the hot guy. No, but the picture. Well, maybe the problem is every picture is this way, so you kind of can't get away with that. That's the problem. It's a good problem to have. You know what this picture reminds me of? The one of him sitting on the table. The last time I did this Craig Federig. Craig Federig sat on the table. Yeah. And he now that one. Yeah. That one was big time. I mean, John Turnus is the hottest Apple XI do, right? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I f well I think so. I mean I mean you're asking I you know you're asking someone here who's got a big bias. Yeah. This is this is uh Eddie Q . Where is that Federighi photo? The best part of the photo, by the way, is the casual the casual hand in the pocket. Mm-hmm. Which that's oh, the one with him and Tim? Yeah, that's what makes the photo hot. Oh no, see I'm talking about the one of him down the lower down where he's sitting on the table and smiling at the camera. Let me see. That's the one I like. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but that's a hot walk. I think I do th I do think like in all seriousness they he will be present more. Yeah. I think that is a thing that is going to happen. We're gonna talk about things we want, but like I I think I think already John Turners has shown that he has more natural charisma than Tim Cook does. And like Cook has gotten a lot better, but he still you can tell that even at his best, he is not comfortable talking to the media. Like he even when it's clearly something he wants to do, it's not his thing. And you don't the the problem was Steve Jobs set the precedent that if you're a CEO you should for some reason be a charismatic on stage presence, which is not a thing that should exist, but people thought to believe that it it's a case that that should exist, you know? Um but Cook just didn't have whatever it was. And he got good at the things he was good at. He could deliver a presentation and it felt meaningful, but it didn't feel like fun . One of the reasons we all want wanted John Turners to be the CEO is, ever y time that he presents, it's good. Like he just presents good. He's a good, charismatic presenter who I think understands that he can be funny, right? Like remember when he introduced the Mac Mini and he like leaned over and like like I don't remember like winked at the camera. That's what I imagine he did. I don't remember I feel like at some point I have to stop. Yeah but I can't help it. Have you seen the yearbook photo of John Turners who's been going around on Reddit? No. Oh my god. Get this . Is uh get this. Get this. I posted in the Discord. Look at him. Yeah. Look at him. Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies. Rush. It's a rush quote. Wow. Have you seen there was also a quote, a friend of the show, Anson Nevins found it. It was in a Wall Street Journal article that he's like he's also very fast like uh track driver like c track car driver like he's he's got a very good speed around Laguna it's like okay this is a piece of information they're throwing out but like they are I think they're building him to be different, right? Like from a PR perspective, he's they're leaning into what he's good at. And I think he I think we're going to see a different kind of public face and how the CEO of Apple kind of interacts with the world I think is going to change. Yeah. Yeah. Which is cool. I think so. I think so too. And you you're you're right. This is like a CEO role that is fundamentally different than it it's peers, right? You see like Google and Microsoft and these other big companies, Amazon certainly, at least when Bezos was there , try to have their CEOs fit into the Steve Jobs mold. And some of them do better at others than others. Um not all of them are as good or as bad as Balmer, you know, like we talked about on the pro show. Yeah. Yeah. There's no doubt that these other companies have been impacted by what the template that Steve Jobs created, but I just can't imagine the pressure of that, like when you're inside Apple, right? And and you know, Tim, to his credit, I think many times over the years, he says, like, you know, I am not Steve Jobs, he told me to do what was right, not to think about what he would do. And I would imagine there's been a lot of those conversations, I would hope, with Turnus of like, no, like we chose you because you have these skills, you know, and the truth is being on stage, announcing the new iPhone is like w a a small percentage of what they do. It's important because it's what we see, it's what the world sees, right? But how you run the company internally and decisions are made and how you manage your teams, like all that stuff is what actually what a CEO actually does. Sure. And so clearly he has those skills as well. But I just can't imagine the pressure of like, like, hey, you're gonna you're gonna be on the stage that's you know got his name on it. Like the theater has his name on it above the doors. Like um that's gotta be it's gotta feel like a pressure cooker. I think they've made it better over the years by broadening it. Like that the first time that he comes out first, whenever that's gonna be, whether that's gonna be June or September . It's not going to be as intense because he has already done stuff. Sure. Right? Like he has already been a presenter as you know, like people keep talking about the fact that he did the intro to the in person event in New York for the MacBook Neo. But he's also done videos purely on his own for the Mac before. Yep. Um lots of portions. Yeah. In nineteen . Yeah, he did that on stage, didn't he? He came out there's a clip. Yeah, there's a clip when he announces the I was in the room when they announced the price of the pro stand and I don't think he was expecting the crowd to basically they didn't boo, but it would they were like, who o you know and 'cause it was a it was a thousand dollars genuine shock because it was genuinely shocking. It was as a moment. I mean it's a nice stand, but it's not that nice Uh so it's not just Turnus. Turnus is not the only person that's moved around. Johnny Suru gi has been named chief hardware officer of Go Johnny. Go Johnny. Which which I think definitely lends truth to Mark G Mark Gurma's reporting that he was threatening to leave. Yeah . Yeah. This is a new title for Apple, uh, as far as I can tell. They've had chief software officers before. Ellen Hancook was one. They had a string of them in the 90s. Ellen Hancook was the last one before Job s came back. And then Avi Tavanian on his way out the door was I think chief uh is like software and technology officer or something. Okay . Um so yes, and I I mean I I mentioned it in my thing is like the the most recent and obvious version of someone getting a title like this was Johnny Ive. Now there are differences there, but there are also a lot of similarities. Like the new guy needs to keep Johnny Sruji around because Sruji is obviously and rightfully so extremely important to their products and their product roadmap. But um , you know, at the same time, it's like, I hope, I hope this is a good move. And it definitely raises questions about other executives and and and parts of Apple. Like Apple doesn't have a chief design of ficer. I don't think they ever will again, at least anytime in any foreseeable future. You have this. You don't have a chief software officer. Like, is that Craig? Is it not Craig? I don't know. Or a CTO. Or a CTO. Chief Technology Officer. So my my theory on this is that these roles are going to start happening. I think you had to announce Surgi at the same time to for Suru'jis kind of like stock, as it were, as an individual, because somebody from the hardware team is going to be his boss, and so it looks good for Johnny Surgi to also get a bump that day, right? So I think like you see everything's PR, right? So the this is part of that. So you're like, oh, you know, Donna's like, well, why not Johnny Shiruji is CEO, right? Like that i is the question you could ask. It's like, well, he's actually gonna be better off in the C suite position as chief hardware officer. Yeah. But I I imagine a CTO, a chief marketing officer, and maybe something in services. So like in theory , something for Craig, Jaws, and Eddie. I can imagine that it's interesting, the Suruji change was made uh the pressure set like effective immediately, I think. Yeah. On the website today, he's still SVP of hardware technologies, so they're probably gonna wait and do everything later. Like when there's the new CEO and all that kind of stuff, I would expect. I don't know. I mean if it's his title today I don't know you don't do it. But um yeah, right now currently there's only one they're CEO and they're Sabi Khan Chief Operating Officer. There's not another C level on this p age . I mean, yeah, like on one hand, who cares? CFO? Uh oh, there's CFO, but yeah, no one cares about that. Um cares about the money. I don't. Okay. You know? You get Apple Fellow, which is the coolest title on this page . Uh on one hand, to Federica's point earlier, th this the titles don't really matter. I mean they do to these people, clearly, right? If if it's true that he was gonna leave or was gonna retire or do something, you say, yeah, yeah, you can be chief hardware officer, like great, I'll stay, like that's important. I'm sure it came with a just a literal truckload of money . But there why these titles have always been interesting is is a reflection of how Apple works internally. So Johnny Ive. Had done hardware, he took over software when Forestall was out. But Steve Jobs dies. Tim Cook, I think the first couple years probably were a little rough, and to keep Ive engaged, you give him the title. And it also says to the world, like, no, we're cool. The guy who worked with Steve Jobs is still here. He's still making great stuff, right? It was a it was a statement to the outside world of what Apple was thinking and and and and doing internally. And that's what these are now too, right? Like I agree with you, Mike. I do think there'll be more of these. And I think it's it's I think this time what Apple has to say um is that the the busin to I think two things. One, the business growth that that we've seen under Tim Cook, that Apple has a plan to continue that. Now I'm not saying that's good or bad. I'm just saying that that that's what they're gonna do. Um, but they also I think I think they have to balance out a little bit that a hardware guy is the CEO, and for a long time it's been true of the iPad, I actually think it's true of a lot of Apple's products right now. Is that the software holds the hardware back? And now you so like the hardware's been this the gym for a long time. That guy now runs the company , what do you do structurally or politically to say, no, no, like we still have a balance. Like we're still hardware, software, and services. We're still doing all three of these things. They're all three equally important. And a way you do that is adjust the tit Yeah. And who knows what he will do too. Right? Like there was that report that we spoke about a few weeks ago that like iPad OS is what it is today because Turnus really pushed for it. Mm-hmm. So maybe he is frustrated with software in general and maybe we'll see some change because of that. Like it will be interesting to see if and how that nets out. Yeah. Before we move on from this part, I wanted to just read a couple of things from a Mark Gurman report. So Mark Gurman got information about an internal kind of meeting, you know, like a all hands kind of thing. Um there's just a few quotes I wanted to read, actually, they were interested in. So Cook said, I'll be here to support John in any way he needs and in any way I can and on politics, saying this is an area where we've built relationships over multiple years and a decade plus and I think I can help with that and I'll probably help on some other things. Uh this is a quote from Mark Gurman. After making prepared remarks, Cooked Cook was asked why he decided now was the time to step down. He said he desired the best ever transition, which means that business had to be doing great, the product roadmap to be incredible, and for Turners to be ready for the role, and that he wanted a textbook suc cession plan, the best in the world. And I hope that business schools and so forth are writing about it. Big transition. Big transition. I get what he's saying though, right? Which is like the thing that we've spoken about before, which was he didn't have one, right? There was no plan and he was thrown into it and the person that handed the reins over to him wasn't around anymore. Yeah. And so like it's clear and it's even more clear now from what he has actually said , that what he wanted to do was to give the next CEO a thing he wasn't he didn't have, and that obviously would have been beneficial to him . Yeah, I mean th there there was a plan, but Steve Jobs didn't live. He didn't survive, right? He was gonna be executive chairman of the board. It's in some ways, it's very similar to what they've laid out this time, but unfortunately he, couldn't outrun his illness. And I I'm sure that I mean, you know, Tim's cookies talked a lot about it, like how Steve Draw what Steve Draw is meant to him personally, and I'm sure that's all true. Like I'm sure that must have been just a horrific time to be in that role. Um and yeah, so wanting to do right by the next person, the person behind you, I think it's admirable. And I think in that statement, I mean he think he says he's like I'm healthy, like he's also maybe pushing back on there's a report a couple months ago about like people worried about his health and who knows. That's really gross reporting unless like it just feels icky to me. But I think he's also kind of saying the stage of like, no, like I plan to be here . This is what I'm gonna do, being very clear about what the steps are. And I was excited about this quote from Turnus. I am especially excited to be sp stepping into this role at this moment because I am telling you we are about to change the world once again. We have an incredible roadmap ahead, and I'm not exaggerating when I say this is the most exciting time to be building products and services at Apple in my entire care er . Let's go, baby. Yeah, man. I don't know what that means, but gonna be fine. We'll see. We'll see. This episode of Connected is brought to you by Doc Pops. How many apps are in your doc on your Mac right now ? If you're like me, it's a lot of 'em. Can you even tell the icons apart anymore? My dock I use on the right side of my screen because I'm a gentleman. And uh there's a lot of stuff in there. It's kind of messy. Well doc pops is a tool to fix that. Whether your dock is a mile long or it's missing half of what you actually use , doc pops is there for you. Launchpad is gone, right? The biggest update Stacks has ever gotten is custom folder icons. So doc pops is here to help. It sits right in your dock and it works like app folders on your iPhone. You click it and a clean grid of apps pop up and you're in. There's no extra menu bar clutter, no keyboard shortcuts to memorize. It's a simple and beautiful app launcher on your dock, and it's what your Mac has been missing. The thing that makes it really useful is you can organize your apps into groups called pops. So maybe you have one for your whole office suite, one for creative tools, another one for games, and maybe one for all of your home kit shortcuts, all grouped together. You can swipe between them like pages or use the built-in shortcuts integration to give each its own doc icon. Doc Pops is the debut app from a new indie Mac developer. That's super awesome. It's a one-time purchase of $9.99 in the Mac App Store, no subscriptions. You can even try the free version before you buy it to see if it clicks for you. I'm using it to put all my podcast related apps together. So I have one for things like zoom, audio hijack, and forecast. I use these apps just once a week now. So I don't need them in my dock all the time, but I want them handy and it's great for things like that as well. It's made by a solo creator, a product manager who turned into an app developer. It's not a big company, just one person who was annoyed by their doc and decided to fix it. It is vibe coded, but it is lightweight, fast, app store compliant, and fully sandboxed. Head on over to doc pops.com/slash connected to get thirty percent off the docpops premium upgrade. That URL is in the show notes, docpops.com slash connected. Our thanks to docpops for their support of the show and all of Relay . Okay, so let's move away from sort of the logistics of this and talk about what we you know, if we got his ear, what would we say? Like what would we like to see Apple do or change or adjust once the dust has settled from this. Federico, what do you have ? I have some really serious suggestions. Uh the first one is I think you should come up with your own branded greeting like good morning from Tim Cook. I think John should embrace something that is uniquely John Turnus. Um Good morning was actually a Steve Jobs thing, right? But Cook just made it much more exaggerated. Southern Yes. Yeah. Cause 'cause Jobs used to say it when he when he started. Yes. But it was like way more understated. And then over time Cook turned it into like a caricature kind of thing. Well he he leaned into the meme, right? Like I'm sure they saw it and like, hey, hey, dial that up. You know, people people think it's funny. What what what could Tana say? Like Yo dogs. He could like point at the camera and wink and like Mike, you have to stop. What? But be like I I think he should you should say hello, the classic Apple hello with a wink. Hello. Hello. Hello. I like that actually. Yeah. Uh I would love for John Turner's to say something controversial What is controversial in this anything just don't be this is probably counterintuitive don't be perfect. Like Tim Cook is the image of perfection, right? It's very methodical operations guy. He wanted to have the perfect transition. He wanted to have the perfect tenure as CEO. Lines go up, they never go down. Like be imperfect and and i i feel like and and you may think i'm kidding i'm actually not kidding i think in especially in this moment in time when so many young people are so what's the opposite in English of not enamored with tech and AI ? I feel like bringing a touch of human imperfection to a company that is the opposite of that, and historical has been the opposite of that. I think it will really help. So you have this hot new guy, right? That is taking the mantle from the perfection guy from before. And and and I know that you know they they sold this press release almost as if oh here's the younger guy that's the spitting image of the previous CEO, down to the shirt and the clothing that they use. But I feel like maybe it could really help with the younger generation to see oh, there's actually like a new person that is saying things I would not expect. And I don't know, I feel like all tech CEOs lately they all sound the same, they look the same, and and they say the same things. Now, obviously, John Turners is also a fifty year old something white guy from America. So uh physically speaking , and and you know, for it doesn't help. But maybe the personality could help. And yeah, I don't know. Steve Jobs was not perfection. I'm not saying try and be Steve Jobs and and be controversial all the time. That wouldn't fly in twenty twenty-six. But also don't try and copy Tim Cook's image of perfection. Do you mind if I jump in with one of mine? Because I actually it is the thing that will lead to yours. So I want turners to do more interviews, to speak more freely and with fewer prepared statements, and to like lead by example the company in that way. And like and from that, I believe would start to build more of a community feeling again. Because people would feel like they're actually hearing from him and he has opinions and things to to tell you. And they think that would inevitably lead to him saying something controversial at least once, right? And that con like the controversial could be like thoughts on flash. That was quite controversial. Right. Yes. And and so like things like that, I I again, I know we go back to jobs, but it's the CEO of Apple. Like, of course, you're gonna compare him to like the guy, right? But I think that again, it's like we were talking about earlier. He he is he is he is charismatic and he can clearly hold a conversation. And interviews I've seen with him , while they are still very on message, they are at least more interesting. Like Craig, right? And Phil Schiller say they're like they're all three of those guys are quote unquote on message, but you feel like you're talking to a real person where like some of the other people would are not that way for one reason or another. And so I would like to see that if he's the CEO and it's essentially no one can stop him, I would like to see what kinds of things he would say. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like and I I am convinced that that in we live in such an era where sometimes being imperfect especially now that we are increasing increasingly surrounded by AI and misinformation and fake perfect things, it's m much more human to be imperfect and controversial, um, if you can. So why not? And I was gonna bring up in fact. Um uh I would love to see John Turners at a live event to bring back live events in perfect in person because you, John Turnus, can afford the showmanship. You can do it. I would love to see it that. And I think other companies are doing it and they don't have a John Turner's. So so so I have a little it's not really a theory, but I just have like a little thing I've been thinking about live events. This all this takes place September 1st, which means the iPhone will be the first event, assumedly, that Turnus a CEO . I think you do it in person . I mean, he should do it in person anyways, like it's time. But also, can you imagine ? Like , y'all mentioned it recently with upgrade, like with Steve Jobs introduced the nano, he's like, What's this little pocket for? Can you just imagine Turnus? He like pulls the phone out of his pocket and then he freaking unfolds it. Like we all know it's coming, right? But you have this moment, like you can make you can you can put this introduction in the annals of history with the others . Like, why would you not do it? You can still do so many highly produced videos that you throw to. Absolutely. Right? But have parts on the stage, show demos, like go back like let's go back you know it's like do all the stuff that that that that cook had Craig do right because eventually C,raig just did it all right,? W theyhen were doing in-person events because he could. But now the CEO can. He clearly feels comfortable doing it. Let's put him out there. And yeah, it would be incredible, right? Pick it up, unfold it, show it to the crowd, lights bouncing off the screen like it's a bit like the what the iPhone was, you know, like yeah. I would love that. Oh man, I would love that. I think they could do it. I I do think they could do it. Like it will be they won't be the same as they were pre COVID , but they could take a step. Yeah. Uh two more things. Uh one, I'm sorry, uh lean leaning to the fact that people think you're hot. Uh I keep thinking, I keep thinking of John Turner says the Ryan Gosling of tech CEOs, so why not? Um and and finally, start replying to emails like Steve Jobs used to um you know Steve Jobs sent a bunch of I don't want to say nasty emails, but like the guy could the guy could could could say some stuff reply, but I don't think his replies were ever noteworthy past the fact that he sent an email. I mean, on a s on a spectrum of of a Tim Cook reply to Steve Jobs emailing a reporter saying what have you done in life that's so great ? Like, there is something in the middle that you can probably land on. Yeah, I don't want him to go over there, you know? Like, yeah. That is a real Steve Jobs email, by the way. Um, to a Giz Motor re Wasn't that part of the iPhone four thing? It was, I think. What have you done in life that's a good thing in that scenario? I'm gonna excuse Steve Jobs, right? 'Cause like I understand why they were very upset. I don't excuse the secret police that he got to the case. I was gonna say, you know, they sent the the the Silicon Valley Gestapo over there. Yeah, but the email at least I understand. You know, I would also feel that way. Yeah, but we don't have to we don't have to go there but there's a middle ground where don turnas can be don turnas and you know i don't know i just feel like uh all jokes aside um i think this person can probably bring back a touch of humanity to the Apple executive team that so far has been sort of represented by this incredibly polished image of perfect operations and perfect everything. I'm not saying that Apple should make back products and be like, oh shucks, we made a bad product because we're humans. No . I am saying that in this day and age, a lot of us , especially the younger generation, is sort of craving that delightful imperfection that makes us human in front of a society and a tech space that is increasingly artificial and non-human. Yeah. See, I think you are touching on why I am excited about this. Like if you remove the leadership page conversation from the scenario, it is that this is a time for signific ant change to happen. Mm-hmm . Hopefully. But there it was it isn't gonna happen otherwise, right? Like Apple is not going to significantly chang becauseed Tim Cook got out of the right side of his bed one morning. Like it requires a new CEO for there to be change. And it's like it's not that I'm saying it ha change has to happen for one reason or another, but And that that's why I'm excited about this. There is no way it that Apple remains exactly the same. They will not be exactly the same. They're going to change, and I'm excited about the possibility of change. Yeah, I think that's one reason this is all so interesting. I I've got a couple that are a bit more intern al, if you will. Um , I agree with everything y'all said. I think it's all super good advice. Uh, I think there's an opportunity here to look like really look hard at what you're doing with the App Store and legislation surrounding it. That Apple has spent untold time and money and goodwill to hold on to every bit of money that flows to the app store that it can . Um I'm not saying you don't think anything. I guess that's not reasonable either. But I think they need to be honest about where they've been with this and I love this. And it might be hopium from my perspective , but like I don't know why this couldn't be the case. You know, I've seen a lot of people saying like, oh, you know, well he's been at Apple so long, he's gonna be indoctrinated to the Apple way, da da da da da . I don't think that's accurate necessarily. Just because you've worked somewhere for a long time, then you agree with everything. No. Like there are those in the you know, it was clear that Schiller didn't agree, right? There was those emails during one of the the the court cases that they dug up where he was like, hey we're making enough money on this. Can we just can we reduce it now? And clearly Cook didn't agree. But like, wouldn't you say that if anyone is indoctrinated into Apple the most, it would be shit So if this is like an Apple way, not a Tim Cook way, but like I think it was a Tim Cook I this is what he wanted to do. So I could see a scenario and I'm hoping that there'll be a scenario so I'm trying to create a situation in which it could happen. But I want them to deal with the what I consider to be the app store problem. Like it is a problem. It is not a benefit to them, it's just a problem. Yeah. It's uh it's time to look at it. Yeah. Um the other thing I think you should take a good long hard look at is the software organiz ation . I think if hardware, software, and services are all siblings , I think the software organization is the one that's that's lagging behind. Um I like Craig Federiki, I know a lot of people who who like him. He's great on stage. It seems okay to work for . But I don't think there's any denying that Apple's desire for for new products, even in the last two years or three years has been slowed because of the software. And it's not just the AI stuff, although clearly that is a huge part of it, right? That Siri isn't good, that they went down this road that didn't work out. That's not all in Craig. In fact, a lot of it was outside his organization. But he owns it now . And it's not the only thing that's kept Apple Apple hardware back. And yeah. I'm not saying you get rid of Craig. I'm not saying you promote him to chief software officer to keep him. I don't know what to do, but I'm not the CEO of Apple. John Turnis is . But I think there needs to be some honest soul searching about is the way the software organization working is it is it doing what we want it to do ? Is that unfair? Mount a limb here? I think that some of it is unfair, but uh it's because we're not unfair. I think we have a different view on some of these things just based on our own tastes . Right? That like a lot of people don't like Mac OS. I have no problem with it. I mean, so so here's the th ing. Like I actually think you have to discount res like stuff in the last year. Okay. Because liquid glass, I think it is bad on the Mac , but it is the the problem with the glass is bigger than just software, right? Like the like Craig Frederiki, I mean his team certainly implemented it and I think did a bad job in a lot of places . But I think it's easy in these moments to look at just what's recent and be like, ah, liquid glass is bad. Fire the guy who did it. It's over the last many years, what system ic things have happened in the software organization , good and bad, that are worth addressing. So I think if you I think if you just look at Tahoe, like and there are people, there are peers of ours who are like, ah, Tahoe's bad, they're I don't think they're wrong, but that's short-sighted because it's just one, it will change because all design changes. But um we gotta talk about things like products not shipping because the software's not ready. The uh I would say the the uh how do I how do I want to say this the different Apple software products that should be more similar in the way that they work and operate, feeling like they're designed and and worked on by teams who don't talk to each other. Um bugs, long stand long standing bugs across multiple operating systems that just don't seem to get fixed. Whatever in the world is going on with feedback and radar that frustrates so many developers, like all of that stuff has got to be talked about. And I'm not saying that you were saying it's just liquid glass, but I think if we just limit ourselves to what's happened in the last twelve months, we're actually cutting off the opportunity for a more meaningful conversation. Yeah. I just feel like I'm not sure where the argument comes from specifically. You know, so like that I think they were some good examples, but I wonder if they're if some of these things are are are considered priorities or not. I I I do think that this year will be very telling one way or another. Like Craig has to get this AI stuff together. Yeah. He has to, because it's under his remit now. Like if if we get to another year and they have not gotten this together, then then yes, I agree we have a problem. Right? Like d this is clearly the most important thing that they need to get taken care of on their operating systems. And this is the year it has to happen. I I do believe they are going to get it together because it would if they I feel like they only can do this CEO transition if they are confident that the operating systems will do what they're supposed to this year, one way or another, right? We can't get to June and they show up a bunch of AI stuff and then it comes in September and they still don't ship it, like they have to feel confident if they're going to put this on Turnus' plate, I feel like, 'cause it would be ridiculous to set him up immediately to have this big failure aga in. Yeah . Yeah. They seem I can't help but think that when he says, oh, we're getting ready to change the world again or whatever, like the the Apple intelligence. Oh, it's absolutely part of it. But there's also the iPhones over the next two years are should be very interesting. Maybe they're super excit ed about the folding phone and smart glasses and they like really feel like they've got things taken care of, you know . Uh so on that, I would like to see uh more products that are intended for smaller audiences . I think they've fallen into that and I would like to see them break out of it. So this is smart home stuff and more wearables. You know? Like w what if the Vision Pro would have launched and it wasn't called the future of computing kind of idea, right? Like it if it was a little bit more relaxed, like what would the tenor be on that product? Yeah. They do seem that's funny. I haven't thought about that. They do seem unable to announce something and just be like, let's see how it does. Yeah. Right. And I but I understand why that happens because they're Apple. The expectation is always that they're going to be the company to top themselves. Yeah, but they don't they haven't always talked like that. Right. Like for for years they talked about the Apple TV before the service. It was like it's a hobby. Yeah. Right. Um I I would think the bigger the bigger look at that is like Apple has no humility in it. And maybe they should when they introduce products have a little bit of humility. I I think it's a trap they fell into, right? That like when Steve was gone they needed to do something. They did the Apple Watch and they treated it like it was the biggest thing, you know, since the iPhone . And it kind a was right so like I feel like you could make that argument over time that like oh actually you know what it was the biggest thing since the iPhone it wasn't bigger than the iPhone but it was a big deal and it sold really well. And so I think they kind of just got into that flow and that that things got left off the table because they couldn't compete. And you know, but like part of me thinking this is there is this suggestion, Mark Gurman has reported that Turnus is really hot on smart home. Well that is not going to be a big deal, right? Anything they do in smart home is not going to be a big deal. They'll be successful, they'll make money from them, but they're not going to change the world because of it. And so I feel like if they care about that kind of stuff and they're gonna release that kind of stuff, then I wanna see them release more things that are like that. When they do eventually come out with smart glasses, I don't want them to treat them like they're this thing that they invented. It's the newest thing, because they will still they will not be at parity with their biggest competitor when they release them. And so that humility that you're mentioning, Stephen, has to be there a little bit. Yeah. We've developed this thing. We think it's going to be really great for our customers. Not like hey, look at these four interfaces that we have pioneered, like we're about to do another one, right? Like, no, we're not gonna do that. Uh I want turn us to take like his ascension is on the back of Apple's fiftieth, right? Which was a surprise that they marked it in the way that they did. I would like him to push this forward in the sense of the company appearing to be proud and to reflect on their own history a little bit more than they have been. Because why wouldn't you? Look at what you the company has done. They they they're so particular about the times that they'll ever mention s things like the Mac, right? The original Mac. It's like only when they want to show something in comparison to it because they want to look important, right? Like it just just be a proud of your history and be more willing to show it. And then also embrace little findy as the company mascot. Yes. Do it. Yep. Make that little friend of ours the actual company mascot. Yes. And I think they're getting close to it, boys. I think I think it's happening. And I think WWDC is the tell. How much is Lil Findy in the in WWDC? I think that is the that's the thing. are there is there merchandise? Are there stickers in the WWDC app, right? Of the little findy? Uh they also also apple give that friend of ours a name. Give it give it a name. It's it's too different 'cause everyone has a different name now because Stephen keeps shouting at me when I say little finder guy, which is very fair. But then they need we need a name that we can all rally around. T Tim . Little Tim . No. No. Call it Tim? Yeah, okay. Let's call him Tim. Yeah. Oh no, Tim crashed. I can't get to my files. Hey, this is Tim. This is Tim. Hey, this is Tim. Uh so yeah, that's uh That's a wrap on Tim Cook. Well not real. This episode of Connected is brought to you by Fundera, powered by Nerdwallet. Running a small business is tough. When it's time to get a loan, it can feel impossible to find a lender you can actually trust. The big banks say no. Then the internet is full of sketchy offers with sky high rates and fine print no one can understand. It's super confusing out there for small businesses. So whether you need help covering payroll, you're managing cash flow, or you're investing in your growth, you deserve better. It should be simple. You don't want to take a bunch of your time up when you're already busy running your small bus That's why you should check out the small business marketplace, Fundera by NerdWallet. It's a free and easy to use platform that lets you compare real financing officers from trusted lenders all in one place. You just do one application and they're realistic about small businesses. You don't need perfect credit to get started. There's no spam, no bait and switch, just personalized options that fit your business needs. It's a soft credit check up front, which does not impact your credit score. So you can check out what loan fits you best without taking a hit. It's free to use and remember they're not a lender. So you can trust them to help you get paired up with the right solution . If I needed a small business loan, I want a tool that is easy to use, easy to understand, and I think that's awesome. So here's the best part. For a limited time , you can visit nerdwallet.com/slash connected and fill out the no obligation form. You'll get to talk with a real person who knows all the ins and outs of small business lending. Don't risk your business on un reliable lenders. Go to nerdwallet.com slash connected to find the funding you deserve. Fundera Inc. NMLS ID number one two four zero zero three e Our thanks to Fundera, powered by Nerdwallet, for their support of the show and all of Relay. Remember how we said we weren't going to do a clip show? Oh, again? And then we did a clip show at the beginning of the show . Uh I prepared something for you today. Do you know where you were on March 21st, 2017enteen . Celebrating my anniversary with Sylvia. That's actually a pretty good answer. I was also celebrating Federico and Sylvia's anniversary, but on my own Yeah, it was it was with us actually. It was a great day. Yeah. One time only we don't need to go . Stop There's a certain year in which it's okay and stuck in second year. Do you feel good now, Steven? Surprise now. Right back at you . March twenty first, twenty seventeen. Apple today introduced Clips, a new app that makes it quick and fun for anyone to create expressive videos on iPhone and iPad. We're doing a clip show. Clips show? Eclipse show. Eclipse show? Eclipse show. Okay. So the original feature set was pretty simple. Uh you could take video and images and mix them with a bunch of pre-made music or your own music. They had filters, emoji, speech bubbles, and then you could share it to social media apps. Um I'd forgotten about this, but before this was announced, it had been rumored the end of the year before that Apple was working on a short form video social network like Vine. Clearly, that was like a misinterpretation of this, but there you go. Um, Apple, though, was very excited about a feature called Live Titles, where you could record and it would generate animated captions for you automatically. 2017, this was a big deal. It's a big deal now. It is a big deal now. I required a 64-bit A series chip and iOS 10.3 or later at launch . But Apple did not sit still with clips. It got a surprising number of new features. I have several, and you two are going to tell me if this was a real feature of clips or a feature that I made up. Here we go. Okay. I was wondering when are we surely he's not just going to tell us the features of clips for 10 minutes. We've got a monologue of clips. I see. I see what's happening, yeah. Feature number one , selfie scenes use the true depth camera system to allow users to record themselves against immersive animated backdrops that include systems. Real feature. I mean, that is a real feature I. remember it, but you want to just say them. Yeah, I think you can just interrupt me. Yeah. So it was really kind. Yeah, that's true. Number two. Selfie scenes included content from Pixar films . True. I remember there being films . Yeah. But was it picture or was it Star Wars? It was definitely Star Wars because that's what I remember. Yeah, I remember Star Wars actually. And so this is one of the Pixar. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was just Star W ars. I'm gonna say it also had Pixar, just for just for the fun. It did. Selfie scenes debuted with content from The Incredibles 2. Okay . Okay. Did it have Star Wars as well? Will we I actually don't know. Uh unknown. I've read a lot of it. Google it. No, you can Google it. I don't have anything about Star Wars in here. No, but like selfie scenes, you have more questions. Oh let's search for it at the end. Okay . Okay . Support for AR features and spatial playb ack on the Vision Pro . No , never, no. No way. It's too early. Okay. It's uh it's actually not too early, but it is false. They did have something called AR spaces effects. So you would scan your room and then it would put things like confetti or sparkles in front of you and behind you. They put way too much work into this app, didn't they? So I have a theory about this app that it was just a playground for like other video stuff they wanted to do. And they just threw it in there. Um okay . True or false . Eclipse update in twenty nineteen added support for Mickey and Mini Mouse stickers . True . False. It is true. Okay. Literally a headline feature in twenty nineteen. I mean I just didn't I I was like, oh well, they're not stickers, right? Were stickers the thing. Stickers. Twenty nineteen. I guess that was sticker time, wasn't it twenty nineteen? Yeah. We had a stickers. iMessage apps. Do you remember iMessage Apps? Yeah, I remember Federico making John cover stickers in uh In the newsletter. Well John I did a make John. John wanted to. I mean, I remember being at release notes. I don't remember if this was the one you were at or not. And I and I vividly remember John being very unhappy about it. He was stuck in the hotel room covering sticker packs and we went out to lunch. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. True or false ? As part of clips 2.0, they added landscape orientation support on the iPad. Yes, true. Yeah, I'll take true as well. It's a trick question. It was part of clips three point oh. It took them it took them three major releases to add as far as questions go. That one sucks. Look like the trick question would be it was landscape but not on the iPad right not like oh it was a different version number yeah but yeah you you got us you got us tru e or fal se ? Clips was eventually upgraded to support sixteen by nine vertical video. I think false . You also think false. It is true. They eventually came around to them. Congratulations. Also point of clips 3.0 . So it went they got to 3.0, wow. So they went from, I guess, Vine to Instagram stories, right? Is what they were kind of like going after. That's kind of the stretch of time, I think. Yeah. Um 'cause it was square to like portrait. Yeah. I don't think so . Um, so you did pretty well. I didn't keep score or anything, but you knew clips better than you thought you would. That's good. Is that all of them? Yes. All right. So tell us about Star Wars. Yeah, Apple clips two point oh selfie sc scenes taps iPhone ten and Star Wars. So there's like the Millennium Falcon. You could be at the Millennium Falcon. Oh, and also you could be a force ghost. Oh, that's good. That was a thing you could do. I remember being a false ghost. Yeah. So in October of twenty twenty five, Apple announced that Clips was no longer being updated and was no longer available for download by new users. If you had twenty twenty five.enty tw Twenty five. Wow. If you had October twenty five, not even a year yet. Um if you had downloaded it previously, you could go into your history and re-download it. Um it will run on iOS twenty six and earlier , no promise of future support . Users were encouraged to save their videos. You could save videos with any effects or individual clips without effects. So they gave you lots of export options . I didn't really use clips for anything serious. I'm sure I downloaded it. I did download it because it was in my history because I went and looked for it. Um at some point. But as my parting gift to you in episode six hundred, I've made a clips video that I'm putting in the Discord right now. It'll be in the show notes. People can go enjoy. Just thirty seconds. Um, maybe maybe y'all could um uh talk through this video, narrate it for people. Oh my god. All right. This is breaking news, it says at the top . Breaking news. Steven's doing some real vlogging. Mm-hmm . And it's doing some live captions of him. Oh, and here we go. We're like looking at some old computers in like a cartoon style. Oh, here's Albert the Catholic There's a cat. We're doing one of those fan cams of Albert now. Oh this is this is some ubiquity gear with some flashing lights. Shut out. Steven's falling over and it's and it's Steven's dead. Oh that's a shame. Inrecdible. That was really good. Steven. Thank you. I was gonna say this. You could just turn you could turn this into your own. Yeah, we need more we need more uh Albert fan cams. Yeah, and also just just general Steven clips videos. Maybe maybe I just use clips. So this should be like your thing now. Yeah. And then over time you would have to like keep old hardware to keep so you could run it. You know, like it just feels very much like a Steven thing. It's already janky. Like it works on 26, but the course the UI is all like iOS 17 and 18. Yeah. Uh it has like s soundtracks you can download and they work, but the downloads are very slow . Like one computer somewhere is hosting them. There's one Mac Mini. Yeah. It's also running OpenClaw for Ed EQ. They snuck it in there. They snuck it in there. And so I was gonna put it on YouTube just to have a cleaner link for the show notes. And YouTube uh had a copyright mark on the music, even though it's supposed to be royalty free. So that's hilarious. It's uh on five twelve pixels. So there you go. That's really funny. I guess well, I guess they let the rights expire for that piece of music wherever Apple got it from, right? Yeah. I bet it I bet it expired and no one in Cupertino noticed. Did it still have the Star Wars stuff in there and stuff like that? Not that I so not that I saw 'cause I could imagine maybe the deal for that stuff may have expire let that expire. Yeah. Maybe they pulled it out. Yeah, it it definitely felt like a lot of the UI was sort of stripped down from maybe what it once was. And it's also just really weird. Like the live titles are a separate thing than recording video , you can't tell it this is a video clip, add titles to it. It's just it's very old school in many ways . Um but yeah, that's the end of my clip show for you. Amazing. Thank you, Steven. This is really good. This is really good. You never know what you're gonna get when it says hold for someone uh in in the document. And I was very nervous at the beginning that I thought you were just gonna read the Wikipedia page for clips at us. Yeah. But you really you really y this was like you very much balled this where we started at a certain level and you bold it up to quiz and then balled it up even further to content creation. So bravo. There's a there's the old double ball they called it Federico. The double ball. The double ball otter. Yeah. Yes, you really you ottered it. You smashed that to pieces just like an auto wood. I did. Uh yeah, it it was was a joy. Um so that's it. That's that's episode six hundred. We did it. Hooray. We did it. And this is unfortunately is the last episode of Connected. Thanks for listening, everyone . It's been an honor to serve you in the past. We've loved doing this show so much. Unfortunately, our relationship has become too fractured at this point. It's an artifice. It's all fake. This whole show is written by Steven every week and he's had enough of writing it. So goodbye everybody. No, it's not true. Uh if you want to find links of the stuff we spoke about, just uh a breathtaking amount of th ings this week. Uh, you can go to your podcast player and go to the web at relay.fm slash connected slash six hundred . There you can leave us feedback, or you can go to connectedfeedback.com, drop us a note, and you can join and get connected pro, which is the longer and ad-free version of the podcast that we do each and every week. So the beginning of each episode, we do a special topic. This week we spoke about framework and their uh new laptop uh thirteen laptop thirteen pro laptop. Whatever they call it, the n the name is bad. Whoa . Just the laptopp latop 13 Pro te Pro 13 Pro. Uh fascinating company. I think we're all very interested in what they're doing. Uh so we talked about that. No ads, and then at the end we pick titles and subtitles and sometimes wrap things up. So you can get all of that. It's just seven bucks a month. Get connectedpro dot co. Um . You can find prince flexifederico at max stories.net where he makes John cover sticker pac ks? No, not true. They just don't publish those articles anymore. It's just for intro consumption only. Tom Tom uh Tom? John is Tom Voice, as we call him. He's just a man of habit. Federico doesn't even want him to do it anymore, but he just can't stop. Yeah . Uh, yes, and you guys spoke about frames four last week, which I loved the conversation. It's awesome. Um, thank you. So if you haven't played with that, dear listener, go seriously, go check it out. It's really cool. Thank you. Thank you. Mike hosts many other shows here on Relay, and you can check his work out at Cortex Brand, and you can read his blog at the enthusiast.net. Yeah, I need to post that upload. You need to have a post and be like, I'm back. I'm back to posting. I'm back to blogging, everyone. I'm back on my cadence now. That's right. Uh I am your attorney general flexi. You can find my writing at 512pixels.net. And where can they find your clips videos? Uh 512pixels.net. No, like where else are you going to post ? On Instagram? Uh yes, I will put it on Instagram. Uh is MH eighty six on Instagram. I almost forgot about it. Post it today though. No, it'll be later in the week. Yeah, because then you don't want you don't want to spoil it for me. Yeah, I'm I'm gonna put it in my task manager post cli ps video to IG. I like that we've made you oh IG look at that connect. Friday three thirty PM. Does that omnifocus? Is that where that went? I don't want to talk about that. Wait. Yes, it is. It is. Okay. Like, whoa, he's done it again. I'd like to thank our sponsors this week, Kelford Inc., Apple Cat, and Fundera powered by Nerdwallet. The thank you for listening, putting up with us all these years. We're not going anywhere. So until next week, boys, say goodbye. Adio de chci. Chererio. Bye