Legislative Challenges and Future of AI Regulation

It's consider this where every day we go deep on one big news story. Today, a public stake in the country's largest AI companies The U.S economy's future is being shaped right now by AI, and a handful of people are reaping the benefits with little oversight. The average American understands that AI is going to have a profound impact on his. or her life And yet as of today There has not been one significant piece of legislation passed regulate AI. That is independent U. S. Senator Bernie Sanders, and he wants to change that His solution a sovereign wealth fund financed by the AI industry The top AI companies would be subject to a one time fifty percent tax on their stocks And that could send every American a one thousand dollars check and the public would have fifty percent representation on every major AI company. And that means that these billionaires who now control the industry want to do something. that will be harmful to the American people, the people representing the public will say, sorry, you can't do that Consider this, only a handful of people are benefiting from the AI boom Could a sovereign wealth fund level the playing field From NPR, I'm Jana Summers NPR's tiny desk can't come to you. I mean it's a desk, but the tiny desk contest tour can New York City join NPR's tiny desk contest winner, Cure for Paranoia at Warsaw this july ninth. It's all the NPR tiny desk Energy minus the office furniture Get your tickets now at tinydesktour. org The Trump administration makes news at a breakneck pace. In PR's podcast, Trump's Terms is your guide to the headlines that matter from the transformation of the Department of Justice and the Pentagon foreign policy and trade, we help you understand President Trump is rewriting the rules of the presidency in short episodes that cover one story at a time Trump's terms listen on the NPR app Whver you get your podcasts Let's consider this from NPR A small number of people have made billions from AI and control the future of this groundbreaking technology. While a large number of people have growing unease about AI's impact on the American workforce, they have little say in that matter Senator Bernie Sanders wants to change that His proposed legislation would create what he is calling an AI sovereign wealth fund Bernie Sanders, independent senator from Vermont, joins us now Thanks very much for having me. Thanks for being here. Okay. I just want to start by asking you, what types of scenarios do you foresee that led you to write this legislation I'll tell you why. U I got involved in this whole issue of AI Because it is clear to me that AI is going to be the most transformational technology in the history of humanity. It will dwarf What the Industrial Revolution did is going to move very, very quickly It will impact our economy and perhaps lead to the loss of tens of millions of jobs over the next decade It's going to have a huge impact in devastating privacy rights your healthcare records, your banking records etcetera, etceter It is going to have a deleterious impact on the mental health of our kids It's going to impact our democracy. Right now, you're already seeing deep fakes And by the way, there's the existential threat that as AI becomes smarter than humans, become independent and lead to catastrophic impacts Yeah, that's a long list there. Now Your office has calculated that a fifty percent tax on the top AI company stock means at today's rates, a fund could send a one thousand dollars check to every American each year. Now, one thousand dollars is not anything to sneeze at, but if AI does permanently change our economy, how much would that help Well, the more important point is that the public would have fifty percent representation on every major AI company. That's the more important point actually And that means that when Mr. Musk and Mr. Bezos and these billionaires who now control the industry want to do something that will be harmful to the American people, the people representing the public will say, sorry, you can't do that. And we have got to work to make sure that AI and robotics work for all of us, not just to enrich people who are already incredibly wealthy and powerful. That kind of proposal sounds like something that might be a pretty hard sell for some of the leaders of the leading AI companies. What have you heard from them? Well, I'm not talking to the leaders of the AI companies. We're talking to the American people. And here is a very important aspect of this whole discussion, and that is The foundations of AI is based on human knowledge and human labor This discussion that we're having will become part of AI. Every book that somebody has written Every work in mathematics, every poet becomes part of AI and the people themselves who have Bu AI, if you like, through their knowledge and work. They deserve the benefits of that So it's not what the The billionaire CEO's want is what the American people want. I do want to ask you about one of those CEO's because according to the Associated Press, you did meet with the CEO of OpenAI, Sam Altman for about an hour in private at your Senate office earlier this month. Did you talk to him about this idea? and what did he think of it He was not enthusiastic about this idea to tell you the truth. but not surprisingly nor are any of the major CEO executives. They have enormous wealth now, they have enormous power, and they want more and the idea that the American people will be able to say no to some of their harmful projects is not something they are sympathetic to On the contrary, though, the American people, I think it's a very good idea Now President Trump has talked about how he wants to start a sovereign wealth fund for the U.S. like ones in Saudi Arabia, China, and Norway Is President Trump a potential ally for you on this legislation I doubt it very much. I mean in Trump is Trump is actually a good politician. I mean, he's a terrible president, but he's a good politician. He knows where people are at And I think what he's seeing is what a lot of people are saying. The American people are angry, They're tired of getting ripped off. They don't want to see all this wealth go to a handful of billionaires. and Trump is saying, hey, maybe we can get some of that. But what we are talking about is something very different. We are talking about giving the American people the ability to help control the future of AI so that it works for the public good, not just to benefit the very, very wealthy Have you spoken to the presresident about this issue No I have not I know that there are a number of pieces of draft legislation floating around the hill that seek to regulate AI. For example, there's a bipartisan bill called the Great American AI Act. There are some tax ideas from Senator Elizabeth Warren, as well as others. What makes your bill, what makes this bill the right approach I think it's more comprehensive than other bills But I would say this and here is really a remarkable reality The average American understands that AI is going to have a profound impact on his or her life and the lives of kids. And yet as of today There has not been one significant piece of legislation passed to regulate AI And why is that? It speaks to the corrupt campaign finance system that we have and the fact that AI can spend as much money as they want. We're talking about hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. they're going to spend right now in this coming election to make sure that we do not have members of Congress who are going to protect the American people regarding this industry. And that's a sad state of affair. So that's a whole other issue in terms of reforming a corrupt campaign finance system that we've got to work on Just thinking about the legislative road here, do you see a path that legislation like this can actually become law, can actually make its way through both chambers of Congress Yes, I do, but it will have to start at the grassroots level And I think there are candidates all over this country who are in agreement with me A number of months ago, as you may recall, we introduced a leegislation calling for a moratorium on data centers. initially did not have much support. Now you're seeing two states, legislatures passing, hundreds of communities moving forward. It's not going to be done by members of Congress who are owned by the AI industry. It will be done when the American people start electing people who are going to stand up and represent the average person and not just the CEO's of large cororporations. Senator, we began our conversation by talking about a number of the ills and anxieties and concerns that you and others have about AI. I want to ask you this, do you ever wish that AI had never been created I am very worried about it I think AI has real benefits in terms of health carere and other areas. It's a very, very powerful tool But I worry, I do worry very, very much So the bottom line is not whether AI is going to exist orough not exist ors, whether it's going to go forward or not. question is how we can