Intent and Final Thoughts

Hey everyone, welcome back to Crime Weekly News. I'm Derek Labasser and I'm Stephanie Harlow. And we're going to be talking about a case today that is All over the internet. give you a quick summary here. On a summer morning in July of 2022 in the quiet suburb of Strongsville, Ohio, a black Toyota Cami made a slow, deliberate turn down an industrial road. and then accelerated. In less than half a mile, it hit 100 miles per hour. Seconds later, it slammed into the brick wall of a warehouse with such force that two young men inside were killed instantly. The driver, a 17 year old, walked away with her life. and eventually a murder conviction. Her name was Mackenzie Shrilla. boys in the car were her boyfriend, Dominic Russo. and his best friend Debian Flanagan. And the question that prosecutors, investigators, and now Netflix have spent the last four years trying to answer is a simple one, but with a chilling answer. Was this a tragic accident? Or was it murder? And before we start talking about it, shout out to my brother Matt, who is who is watching our last our Brandy Hall series. Like I said, he's a firefighter. I told him he was mentioned in it. So he, you know, he had to go watch it. And he agrees with everything we said, by the way, what Randall did that day and far as the the the communications and turning on his portable radio absolutely he's like yeah dude I have no investment that guy was not in the building but that's a side note um then he and then and then he switched up and said hey man have you watched this documentary on Netflix yet and I'm like oh I'm not really into the you know true crime documentaries And he's like, you have to watch this. You have to watch it. It just came out. It's great. So I'm like, okay. I'll watch it. I'll let you know what I think. I watched it, it was really well done. The story itself is crazy. So then I, when Stephanie got home from her vacation, I'm like, hey, you have to watch this Netflix doc and we have to talk about it this week because everybody is going to be talking about it. And here we are. And I did. I watched it. You did. And you were about to start talking about it on the phone and I was like, Wait, let's wait till we're recording. Yeah. Well that's what I 'cause it's in my head and I'm like, I gotta talk this out. So Basically the the documentary released May fifteenth, twenty twenty six, is directed by Gareth Johnson. And it revisits this July twenty twenty two incident in Strongsville, Ohio, where seventeen year old McKenzie Shrilla drove her car at over a hundred miles per hour into a brick building. It killed her boyfriend, Dominic Russo, and his friend, Davion Flanagan. So McKenzie actually survived. Surprisingly, yeah. We yeah, which we're gonna talk about that, but she was convicted of murder in a twenty twenty three bench trial. Uh she actually chose the bench trial. And then she was sentenced to life with parole eligibility after fifteen years. That's right. So Here's the backstory. All three of them, Dom and Mackenzie and Davion they were at a party. So it some people say it's a graduation party. Mackenzie refers to it as a sleepover, I guess that he would that's what our friend Rosie did as well. Yeah, that that that's what they would do. They would kind of do these parties or get togethers, chill hangouts, whatever. And they'd get together. And then it was around I guess five thirty in the morning that Dom McKenzie and Davian got into McKenzie's car. To, I guess, head back home. So Mackenzie was driving, Dom was in the passenger seat, Davian was in the back. And McKenzie turned from Pearl Road. Uh on to Progress Drive. And this was a pretty normal sort of driving. It was controlled. It was deliberate. Yeah, she used her blanker. Mm-hmm. Yep. And then she somehow or the car. accelerated to one hundred miles per hour, which is crazy. And this isn't the longest road ever. It was she floor pedal to the floor. Yeah, pedal to the metal. So Now we have this car accident and I watched a documentary and it uh it opens up basically with Body cam footage from the cops. Having to let the parents of these kids know that their their children their two sons are dead. And that broke me. So right away I'm like, freaking Derek, man. Like I didn't I just got home from vacation. I'm in a in an okay mindset and now you got me. real messed up because uh The the one mother. was like, you're lying, right? Like this is like she couldn't read it. That was at the hospital. That was McKenzie's mom and f and dad. And basically they were saying they were at the hospital 'cause McKenzie was there. Yes. And they were asking who else was she alone in the car? Were there other people? And they were very close with Dom. So obviously that's why they had that reaction. And they yeah, they, you know. You could just you couldn't I don't know. It was really uh it was a upsetting to see. So Mackenzie's in the hospital. and she's the only one that survived. I read through the report and everything, the police report and when they got to the car. as at the initial crime scene or accident scene. the police and the paramedics, they were like, This is one of the worst things we've ever seen ever. Davian was in the backseat, but from the force of the car it looks like he kind of had flown upwards. So he was laying on top of um Dom who was sitting in the front seat in the passenger seat was reclined all the way back. So Dom was in the passenger seat. And I think Davion was still alive when they when they extracted them from the car, and then they called in um ambulances, but by the time the helicopter came, Davian had passed away. And Mackenzie gets brought to the hospital and then the police question her and she says she doesn't remember. Anything that happened. Yeah, she asked for a lawyer too pretty quickly as well. Well the parents, they were like, you know, maybe we should have a lawyer. And then but then they gave her phone over to the police right away. Right, well it's you know, not great. No, this This incident uh is very similar to an incident that I experienced as a police officer. Three students, high school students actually attended the same high school that I attended. Um speeding at night and uh came around a turn too fast, had a telephone pole. And when we got there, driver, they were all crushed in the car. Two people in the car died. Driver survived. Uh they hit on the passenger side of the pole. And the back passenger was alive when we got. And They didn't even know how bad it was. But before same exact thing. within seconds, uh, he was gone. And it it shook up the the community, especially our high school. So these are this is the unfortunate thing as a patrolman that you could run into potentially and you can see the reaction from the patrolman when he got there. He thinks he's responding to an accident and then he gets there and realizes uh what he just walked into and and the car looked like it was almost cut in half. Yeah. split in two. Yeah. And there's a lot we c we're gonna talk about it all. There's a lot even from that body cam footage that you can dissect and then other body cam footage where you can start to put together a picture of what transpired even though we also have A lot of footage from the entire the entire night, including the accident itself, which I think is why this this documentary is so compelling, because you don't have to was you don't have to think about what it was or what happened. You don't have to envision it or having it. Yeah. It's bad. And I mean, initially when something like this happens, right, you've got Mackenzie was seventeen and Dom was twenty, and I think that Davian was nineteen. So you've got some young kids and they just came from a you know a hangout or graduation party and you're thinking, Well, Gall. drugs. Like something had to have been involved at play here. But pretty uh shortly after McKenzie gets to the hospital and then the responding police officer goes to the hospital. And he's told, okay, her blood alcohol level there she she was not Zero Yeah. N no alcohols involved here. But then they found in in her in the car and on Mackenzie's person they found marijuana and they found um mushrooms. Yeah, magic mushrooms, right? Sally seven. So then then we're thinking, well, maybe drugs are involved. Right. But then that comes back. Negative. Yeah. She had THC in her system, but she was a habitual smoker. She smoked every single day. So that wouldn't have That wouldn't have messed up her driving. So they said she smoked every day and also um drove. Wow. They played a freaking montage in the Netflix doc of just her just smoking out of a bond. Yeah. Which is crazy to me to be that young. That her parents were like Uh we we understand she we know she smoked. It's also weird, okay, because I know Jared Garf was like I hate the parents I'm not gonna tell you anything, I hate the parents and I'm like I am blown in with an open mind and and at first I was like oh they're not that bad and then I was like oh these these are these are Casey Anthony's parents is one of the enablers. Yeah They're enablers for sure. And then there's like this contradictory element to to uh to basically McKenzie where she's so concerned about her health and eating right and all these things. But and you know, you can You can say what you want about weed. You know, some people believe in it, some people don't, whatever, but what we do know because it was said in the doc is that she was smoking so much that she had like black or blood coming up. And so she was actually on a a break from smoking because of it. So it's like. You're eating all this healthy food, but you're doing something that's making you sick. Whatever. It just kind of felt like they let her do Whatever she wanted. So she's seventeen years old. They let her move him with her boyfriend. They said things like Oh, well he had money he was buying her gifts. Like we knew that that boy had money. Yeah. Mm mm. Don't like it. I I was like, these guys are morons. And then you'd go to the school. Did you do it? Oh, I know when my daughter's line. Oh yeah, yeah. That's it. I was just about to say. They talk about like she's getting in trouble for bullying. There's all these people like she bullied me and my friends for no reason. And then they're like, Yeah, we had to go to the school. And I said, Mackenzie, did you do it? She was like, No, Daddy. Of course not. And he was like, and I know my daughter. She would never I mean, and then her mother's like, She was a good kid, no problems, except for her mouth. You know? It's like, Well, yeah. So they're clearly enablers. Like I said. These are Casey Anthony's parents, the same kind of situation. And I get not wanting to be, you know, these authoritarian parents, but there is a point where you're like, all right, like do am I trying to put a good person out into the world or am I trying to put a monster into the world? Now Here's the thing. She says she doesn't remember what happens. Okay? Right. She remembers turning onto the street. She remembers turning onto the street and then it faded to black. That's it. Okay. So they start getting suspicious though, because they had her phone now. And they're kind of like looking at stuff on the phone and they're kind of getting an idea of who she is and what she's all about. And then there comes it comes to light that hey, her and Dom, her boyfriend, were having some issues. And just that same month. She had been driving him in a car and a family friend had to go pick him up because they were fighting in the car and the family friend could hear Dom on the phone because he was in the car with McKenzie still and McKenzie was like, I'm gonna crash this car. Yeah, hence. Okay. So so the family friend this was just a few weeks before this happened. So but then you talk to people who were at the party, they were talked to and they said, Yeah, McKenzie and Down weren't fighting, there was no. Rosie's another one. It was Rosie, basically. Rosie Rosie didn't want to talk to the police, man. Rosie's never talked to the prosecutor, doesn't w you know nothing to hide but not willing to speak to anybody. Except for Netflix. Okay, except for Nap the prosecutor was great on that too. He's like, Oh, she spoke to you. Can't wait to hear what she has to say. That's amazing. He's like, We've been trying to talk to Rosie forever. Yeah. So here's the thing that really kind of ties everything in, right? Because you could look at it and you could say Alright, well she was a kid, you know, she talks on her phone, they're fighting, they're young, whatever. That's not going to be this this thing that's gonna kind of p put in put the nail in her coffin. But then you've got the event data recorder. Basically the black box of the car the black box of the car. And this captures the final five seconds before the impact. And this is the prosecution's centerpiece during the trial. So the accelerator was pressed at a hundred percent capacity. Derek said paddles of the metal, and it was held there for an extended period of time. The entire time. The brakes were never tapped, not once. Not once, yep. Steering wheel turned slightly, left, then right, before being straightened out for the final stretch and into the building. And so investigators interpreted this back and forth steering as possible evidence that that Dom and Davien try to grab the wheel and force a hard right turn more than once to avoid the crash, as in like Possibly McKenzie was stepping on the accelerator like I'm gonna crash this car, and the two other passengers in the car were trying to prevent this. From happen. And surveillance footage from the surrounding businesses, 'cause this is of an industrial area, it backed that up. So the car made a controlled deliberate turn and then accelerated for nearly half a mile before impact. So now we have this data, right? But still. Okay, and I want to talk about this data with you, Derek, because I know you've you've looked at it and you've kind of analyzed it. But still I'm not a hundred percent sold on what happened here, and I'm gonna tell you why, but Before we get into that, let's take a break. You know what's funny? Sometimes the things that affect your day the most are the things you stop noticing. You know, the things you see and feel every single day. Like what? You know, like bad betting. You get used to scratchy sheets, flat pillows. Waking up too hot. And you don't really realize how uncomfortable everything is until you finally replace it. Or you sleep in like a hotel and you're like, Wow, this is way better than what I got going on at home. And that's what happened when I switched to bowl and branch. Fair, fair. No, I agree I felt an immediate difference when I had bowl and branch on my bed. I don't know what you have, but I have the signature sheets. They just feel different. Uh they're made from high quality organic materials, so they have that really elevated hotel bed feeling. 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And right now you can get twenty percent off your first order plus free shipping during the Memorial Day sale at bullandch.com slash crimeweekly. Code Crime Weekly. That's Bolin Branch. B-O-L-L A-N-D Branch.com slash crime weekly. Code Crime Weekly to get 20% off. Bolin Branch.com slash crime weekly. Code Crime Weekly exclusions apply. All right, so we're back. So Mackenzie, once again, she has no memory of this. And when we have her tur trial is only four days, I believe. So her mother testified that she had been diagnosed with POTS. So this is a nervous system disorder. It can cause sudden dizziness, blackouts. She had been diagnosed with POTS in twenty seventeen. And her mother was like, Well maybe this caused a medical emergency and she lost consciousness. But the judge of the the bench trial didn't really buy it. And and a lot of people have said like listen if you're losing consciousness How are you pushing your foot down? on the gas, right? Contradictory. The two don't go hand in hand. Yeah. You're either passing out and you're out of c you're not in control of the vehicle or you are. Make up your mind. Yeah, because this isn't once again, this isn't even like, oh, I passed out and my foot sl maybe I slumped forward and my foot slightly pushed down. It's like no, all the way down. And at trial, McKenzie's lawyer did raise this issue of the twenty seventeen Potts diagnosis. This is something to do with like your autonomic nervous system, blood pressure. It can I looked into it, um, and I've heard about it before. It can cause sudden lightheadedness or brief blackouts. But here's the problem. Mackenzie did not testify. Her mother testified about it. But Mackenzie didn't testify, and the defense never put in actual expert medical testimony. like forward during that trial showing that she had blacked out at the time of the crash. So here's another thing though, 'cause more stuff has happened after the trial, so I want to talk about this potential This potential that she had. you know, a medical emergency. before we kinda get into it. So Is real medical evidence now pointing towards a possible blackout or maybe even a seizure? But it is contested, and it came after McKenzie's conviction, and so it's never been weighed against the prosecution's case in court. In April, the defense filed a supplemental post conviction relief petition built around Um this doctor. Kamal? And Dr. Kamal had said that he looked at the the medical evidence. And he's a neurologist at University Hospital in Cleveland. And his conclusion was that the evidence was consistent with loss of consciousness at the time of impact, and he pointed to three specific findings, elevated lactate levels, abnormally low blood oxygen. I think if I remember correctly, her blood oxygen level was eighty-two and a normal blood oxygen level is 95. and then complete amnesia following the incident, which For me, that's not a specific finding, cause she could just say she has complete amnesia. A after the incident. That would be re that'd be the smart thing to do. Yeah, but Dr Um Kamali is saying She's got elevated lactate levels and abnormally low blood oxygen. And then this to him says that These are classic markers of a seizure or a similar autonomic event. And the defense says, you know, this is actually the kind of expert evidence that. um McKenzie's original attorney should have presented, but they didn't. And so I could see an area where it's like you got a bad lawyer. and they didn't prepare for trial and they should have put more evidence, like from experts and and medical experts forward. And that may have changed the tide. Maybe yeah, I mean, this was dismissed. So this post conviction relief petition was built around Yeah, it around uh the doctor's findings and the judge, Nancy Russo, rejected it. But not because it was not w without merit, it's because The filing was submitted one day past the statutory deadline. So the court ruled it time barred as a matter of law. Meaning like it couldn't go through. So there's there's so much to unpack here. And I mean we could talk about this. It was it's borderline a crime weekly episode. So I'm gonna try to be concise. I may miss some things, but Here's the problem with that whole theory. First, let's go back to the EDR. One other thing you you didn't mention was the fact that the shifter went from drive to neutral back to drive in addition to this left, right, left movement. And you can also see from the uh body cam footage that at the last moment. the vehicle veered to the right, even before the intersection. It went over the grass, then went on the road, and then went into the building. So there was movement at that last moment to try to do something, whatever it was, a a fight over the wheel, whatever you have, there was something going on there. And I did a TikTok, I did an Instagram. Even if we're looking at the EDR, in my Instagram and TikTok, I had said that I believed, and the prosecutor laid this out that the movements of that steering wheel could indicate a struggle over the wheel. I'm gonna amend that a little bit. And I'm gonna tell you why. And this was something that I kind of came to this morning. If you look at progress to drive. It's not that long of a road. And we kinda we're smart, yeah. We're doing surface level here, but there's camera footage of this whole thing, guys. If you haven't seen it, there's cameras all along this road up to the point where they hit the building. Surround by businesses. Yeah. And so it's like an industrial area. And so this road's not that long. And what you'll notice is that Progress Drive, as they take a, as they take a right off of Pearl onto progress. The road is mostly straight. Until about the last maybe 300 feet before this intersection. And what you will notice if we have if you're watching on YouTube right now. Is the Progress drive when it comes to this Almeda drive, the intersection there. At the last moment, if you're traveling down this road. kind of has a bend to it. And if you're driving the vehicle, you would have to go left and then turn the wheel right to straighten it back out. And then right a little bit more based on the angle they went. So when we think about five seconds at the rate of speed they were going, I think that five seconds is actually showing you that last little bend before going directly into the building. And what does that tell us? It contradicts the idea that there was someone behind the wheel conscious. consciously made that turn. to go around that bend so they would make it to the wall. Otherwise they would have went up on the grass. Right at that bend, and they didn't. So I've amended my theory on what I think happened slightly to I definitely think Davian and Dom were awake in the car. If you look at that footage when they're making the turn. there appears to be a light illuminating from the vehicle. It looks to me like it's the passenger side, which would suggest a phone that maybe Dom was on his phone. Well Davey and all his friends said that he was talking to him on Snapchat. Like he could have his phone out too, but what you're seeing in the camera footage and obviously infrared's a little weird, but It looks to me like it's coming from the passenger seat. And so I think they're up. And by the way, they didn't have their seatbelt on, I don't believe. However, Mackenzie did, which I guess she didn't normally wear her seatbelt. That's it, we're gonna talk about that as well. But I think they're driving down that road and as soon as she makes that turn. She steps on the gas and for for the first like 15 seconds. They're rationalizing where they're, what are you doing? Stop, slow down, don't be stupid. This isn't that serious. And it's not until the last second when they realize she's not going to stop. And I do think that's when someone grabs the steering wheel, snaps it to the right, and it hits the the building at that angle. But I think that first Left, right? is actually McKenzie adjusting the wheel, adjusting the vehicle to go around that bend on progress drive, which to me is even more damning. to the idea that this was a medical emergency. She had her foot to the floor, 100% acceleration. The entire time. is highly suggestive that she was doing that intentionally. If she had passed out. you would expect her to go limp. Even if she had a seizure, it would be intermittent. There'd be moments where it might be 95% pressure, 84% pressure, back to 100%. It's consistent the entire seconds, 100%. Foot. And think there's a lot there that says this was deliberate. The motive is a little gray. That's why it's so fascinating because it doesn't make a lot of sense. And what I said in my my TikTok was, and this is speculative, and I want your opinion on this, Stephanie, and you guys weigh in in the comments as well, because everybody's different. I'm a night owl. Stephanie knows that. I sleep in. For me, they got to Rosie's house late or the friend's house late. I don't know if it was Rosie's house, but Rosie was there. Yeah, they got there. It wasn't Rosie's house, but it was like 1130. Eleven thirty. And originally they had asked her to bring shrooms and uh maybe some weed. But then they said it would then they said by the time they thought about them it was too late. Yes. So they came there. That's why they still had the shrooms in the car, right? Because they didn't they didn't eat them. And so to me, they get there late. They don't do the shrooms. They smoke a little weed. They watch TV, whatever they do. I find it odd that at five o'clock in the morning they abruptly decide to leave and Davian says, I'm gonna go with them. I'm gonna go shower. I find that odd. You just got to bed a couple hours prior. You don't have anywhere to be in the morning. Why are you guys rushing to get out of there? It's completely just a guess on my part, but I do wonder. If something happened. or something was discovered or a conversation was had where there was an argument. And they were like F it. We're getting out of here. Now Maybe that's why Rosie doesn't want to speak. But if there was an argument, you know, it doesn't seem like that was kind of building up. Everybody said they were fine. So like when did the argument start? Who who started it, who was it between. Right. But it could have been right at five in the morning where they're like, We're getting out of here. The one friend whose s whose house it was. He said he went to bed and then he woke up around like three or four and McKenzie was sleeping and Davian was watching something on TV with another person and then um Dom wasn't he didn't see Dom anywhere. And then he went back to bed and when he woke up later that morning, everybody was gone. So where was Dom at that point when um Davien's watching TV and McKenzie sleeping. Yeah, what happened what did did McKenzie wake up and see something? Did Dom sneak off with someone, maybe, because there was some allegations that he had cheated on McKenzie. In the past. In the past when they first started. Yeah. And and then Dom's mother had testified and said, Hey, that McKenzie was getting very like jealous and possessive of Dom in the weeks leading up. to this this car crash. So Oh look at some of the videos. She just was very manipulative, uh took advantage of the situation, a different person behind closed doors when she didn't know she was being recorded. Very like materialistic. Yeah. But to me when we're trying to pinpoint when things went south. I do point to that five o'clock window. Also, unfortunately, we don't know what was being said in the car because everyone other than McKenzie is dead. Uh one other thing I wanted to point out that was, you know, the time constraints, you know, in these documentaries, but It was it was something that was brought up during court, and that's the fact that this progress drive It is on the way home and and normally it can be a shortcut if there's traffic. The cops said that some people use it as a shortcut and they and they usually don't go the speed limit. Yeah. But here's the problem, right? The speed limit I think was twenty five, thirty five, but here's the issue with this. If there's no traffic It's not a shortcut. It actually would take longer to get to where they're going. So why take that road that night that night? And I bring that up because Maybe if you want to avoid main roads and the police, you know, if you've hadn't been smoking weed, I don't know. That's possible or Now there which this is what the prosecutor said. They said that she had visited that street. in the days prior to this incident. And to them. could be an indication of premeditation. But at minimum, what I have said is there's a familiarity with that road. She would have known the T intersection was coming up. So you couldn't even go towards like reckless driving where she was just driving fast, not paying attention, didn't realize if you could prove premeditation. Yeah. But I'm saying if there's no premeditation, I'm just saying she would know the road. Let's take a break. Yeah, let's take a break and then I want to talk about this because I have issues with it. You know, once again, she was convicted. She is in prison. She's she talked to Netflix from prison. Yes. We thought we might get some, you know, monumental no. She's like, I don't remember. Nope. Let's take a break. Remember, let's take a break. We'll come back. There's there's so much more to talk about. I feel like every woman is constantly searching for the perfect bra, like the one that's comfortable, actually supportive, disappears under clothes, no bulges, no pinches, and somehow doesn't make you want to rip it off halfway through the day. Well, uh it is, usually, but it honestly did feel impossible until I started wearing skims. I love skims. I talk about skims all the time. And and I love their underwear and I love their dresses. Like summer's coming up, so their long body fitting dresses are are gonna be my go to because they're comfortable, but The bra. I just went on vacation to a tropical location and I usually don't bring any bra because I'm like in a bathing suit the whole time. 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Every step of the way as far as the data goes. And it appears that this was intentional and that she hit on the gas. My and you said the motive is kind of like, yeah, blurry. I agree. The motive is blurry. It's like, okay, you've been fighting, you've had some, but you've been together four years, you live together. It probably is not the first Rough patch you've had. And here's the thing. A hundred miles per hour into a brick wall. There was zero for McKenzie to intentionally do that. And know for a fact that she would survive. Oh no, I think she I think she intentionally tried to kill herself. You think she wanted to kill herself too? I do. Really. I do. I think it was like if I can't have you, nobody can we'll die together, Romeo and Juliette type thing. Not exactly, but you can't you can't c you can't think you're gonna hit a wall at that speed and think you're gonna survive. And she's gonna kill the friend too, like Davy? Like That that is odd to me and that is something else that the par his parents had talked about. Like if that was her plan Or even if it was just in that moment. Why not let him out? Why why not why would you take him with you? Yeah. And so here's my thing. Like When When she first got out of the car when they extracted her and the the paramedic was taking her vitals and he said she was confused. I guess the first thing she said w was, How is Davian? That's the first thing she said. So it's not like she was checking on him. So maybe Her intention was and that's why she had her C belt on, hoping to maybe survive it and just kill Dom. But she was worried about Davy and I don't know. Like, see to me That's it. She had I'm not saying like, I know this girl and she had a lot to live for. She's seventeen. Right, and and she does technically have a lot to live for. So What could this possibly have been a thing where and and I listen, I've been in a car with someone like this before. It's abusive, it's manipulating, it's controlling. They use reckless driving to scare you. And it works 'cause they're in complete control of your wife's. 'Cause they're in complete control, exactly. Could it have been a thing where like a few weeks prior where she was like, I'm gonna wreck this car just to kind of show her boyfriend, Dom, like I'm mad. You're bringing me to this place again, not intending to actually hit a wall. Like, and I know you said that they the prosecution has evidence that she that she was possibly there before, which suggests premeditation. I just can't wrap my head around like Oh, I'm so mad at my boyfriend, I'm going to kill everyone in this car, including myself. That's very hard. In that case, you would expect that in that last moment that there would be some attempt to not hit the wall. Hit the brake. No. All they did was I think the veer of the steering wheel. Let's talk about reconstruction too, right? Because it goes into the what I'm gonna say here. The the the slight veering off the road. That's not attempt that's not her attempting to miss the wall. That's Davian grabbing the wheel because what we know from the way they were found, and you hit on this earlier. And I think this is fascinating. You have Dom in the front seat. You have Davian on top of him in the front seat. And then what's also interesting. is that you have McKenzie in the driver's side, but under the dashboard. In in Dom's lap, basically, like under the passenger side dashboard. Oh is it the passenger side? I thought she was still on the driver's side, but either way, that even makes it more compelling because If you know what you're about to do. And your natural reaction is to brace for it as you're pushing your foot on the gas, you're gonna duck down. And which way are you gonna duck? Okay, so I'm gonna read fr I'm gonna read from the police report. The uh responding officer ran to the driver's side, saw the legs and lorotors of what appeared to be the female driver. The upper half of the driver's body was on the passenger side underneath the passenger dashboard, which was caved in on top of her. So hear me out. Now we're getting somewhere. a second before you hit that wall, you know you're about to. keep your foot on the gas and you and you get you lean over. And when you lean over, that's why the shifter goes into neutral for a second and then back to drive. It's your body crossing over the shifter. And then you hit the wall, but at no point do you hit the break. And so she's bracing for it. Dom and Devian are fighting with her to try to get the steering wheel. That's why it veers to the right. Well, the passenger front seat was also lowered reclined all the way back. So was Dom sleeping? He might have been sitting like that a lot of the times. Even me back in the day, I'd have my seat all the way reclined back. It seems to me like Davian being where he was, maybe he lunched forward to try to grab the steering wheel. Because he was found in the front passenger seat, right? Basically on top of Dom. And you guys gotta remember this. Like she's you know, what, I don't even know, 100 pounds soaking wet. She's tiny and and you got a running back for the high school. Dom's a good sized kid. But yet they can't do much to her because she's got her foot on the gas. He's in control. Yeah. She's got your life in in her hands. And so there's not much you can do. You can't punch her in the face. It's gonna cause you guys to crash. So at that moment, you're still hoping you can. Get out of it okay and For me? When I look at it and I and I said this, you know. It's not 100% certainty what what happened here. But I think with the totality of what we have. it leans in the in the direction of this was deliberate. And that's why I think she got 15 years for Dom and 15 years for Debian. But what was important is that the judge made it concurrent. consecutive. And that's important because it goes from a minimum sentence of 15 to 30 if she had went consecutive. And I think she's looking at it. Where she sees a young girl Without any remorse. Bonehead parents sitting behind her. Trying to make excuses. Yeah, blindly believing everything she says. And and knowing that this girl If it wasn't for her, if she doesn't believe this was a medical issue. Whether it was reckless, an argument, deliberate, whatever it was. She is the reason that those two boys are dead. And there's no way she could let her walk away from this. without any consequences. So at minimum she's got fifteen years to think about what she did and hopefully mature, but I will say, based on the interview, she's not there yet. So what do you think about the prosecution basically saying that they think she did it for attention? They kind of tried to make it or at least the documentary kind of made it Seem like definitely show no remorse, right? And I think that's where a lot of the hatred towards Mackenzie comes in. I mean she was doing selfies like of dead people or like Halloween three months after And and try to get like partnerships online. Like I'm excited. It reminded me of uh it reminded me a lot of Michelle Carter. I'm not sure if you are familiar with that. Uh it's actually a New England case with Conrad Roy. The text messages. He was in the truck. She's like, kill yourself and then she tried to use his death. be like my boyfriend and I'm devastating to get attention and No doubt that is Mackenzie for sure and that's why she's so unlikable. Does that mean that she intentionally did it? Or is she capitalizing? I don't think if I don't think you hit that wall thinking you're gonna survive. It's really difficult for me. And this could just be me. And and where I'm at. She knowingly drove into a brick wall at a hundred miles per hour. not knowing that you're gonna walk out of there alive, right? Because you know, the doc the documentary kind of made it seem like she knew she was gonna walk out alive and she wanted to get the attention and this, this and that. She wanted to be a star. She wanted to be a model. She wanted to be a social media influencer. You'd have to know you were going to survive. How would you know that? How would you know that? There's no way you can. Or that you wouldn't be like disabled. You know, good luck with your modeling career now when you're disfigured or the car c caught on fire. You know, you don't know what's going to happen. Do they have information from her phone where she's like looking up? Oh, how can I survive a car crash? If they had that kind of stuff. which I would I you know, I I watched the trial and I kind of went through each day that doesn't look like they have that kind of stuff. It's so hard for me to look at this this girl and say this is what she intended. To either A kill all three of them or B kill the two boys in the car with her and survive. To kinda summarize this, what do you think happened then? Because if it's not that then you're leaning towards a medical episode and there's no evidence to support it. I'm not leaning towards a medical episode. So what is it? You saw that camera footage, you see that car driving down that road. You see her her slipper stuck to the floor pedal. I'm I'm wondering if she was just trying to scare them and once again be manipulative, have like their lives in in her hands, feel powerful. She just mis she just misread the the how much road she had? She misread how yeah, like maybe she maybe it was dark, maybe she didn't see, maybe she wasn't familiar with the area, like I don't know. Well that they push back on that because she had driven that road before. I would say There is a possibility that she was trying to scare Dom because they were arguing. Like she had done before, yeah. And she didn't anticipate quickly that ending was coming to at the end of the road. I mean, even if she's used to driving high. Right? It still down your reaction time. Exactly. So I mean, yeah, you you get high and smoke and drive all the time, but you don't get high and smoke and drive a hundred miles per hour towards a brick wall all the time. No. So that could have been something that she misread. Yeah, whatever the case, her actions Her conscious actions led to the death of these two young men. And When you look at that video, there's no other way to interpret this vehicle traveling at that rate of speed, but staying perfectly in the line on her side of the road and making those minor inputs to the steering wheel to stay on the road even at that bend. That to me is what really did her in. It's clear cut. that she was conscious and in control of her vehicle. It's very, it's fair it's very messed up. Like you just I don't like it. I don't like it. I got a question for you. It was posed to me online. I'm gonna pose it to you and I'm posing it to everybody listening or watching right now. They made the decision to go with a bench trial over a jury trial, knowing what you know now. Do you think that was the right decision? No, because I think there would have been somebody like me on the jury. Like there was somebody on Casey Anthony's jury, you know, who looks at this young girl and is like, I need to make sure a hundred percent beyond a reasonable doubt. That you sped I mean, even it's it's still recklendment one way or the other, right? But murder. You know, like I need to know beyond a reasonable doubt that this girl intended to kill these two people in the car with her. Yeah, and you you are right, manslaughter would have been different than murder. But that's the same thing with c with Casey Anthony, right? Didn't they they they kind of overshot their coverage with what they were trying to charge her with, and they didn't really had they only really had the circumstantial evidence, and that's why the jury had a hard time. looking at Casey Anthony, how young she was, and with the the evidence that they had and saying, Yeah, let's throw this girl in in prison for the rest of her life for murder. Yeah. So yeah, she definitely would have fared better with a jury trial, I think. I go back and forth on it. I think that knew how unlikable she was and how unlikable her parents were. And a jury is more likely to go off a motion and you may have someone who sides with you, but you could also have a jury go, this kid just doesn't get it. and and find her guilty as well. I mean we we'll we'll never truly know. The s the judge is still gonna be the one that decides the sentencing though, right? It decided decides the sentencing, but I think they were hoping that the judge who's gonna And more than likely be more pragmatic and objective than a jury, I I would think that they thought, hey, if we just can present enough reasonable doubt, we're gonna get this whole thing thrown out. That was the hope. The judge was not having it. She was not having it. And you know the judge did say that she could spend the rest of her life in prison. I don't think she will. I think you'll get a lenient parole board that will Well, although I will say parole in Ohio apparently is very difficult, but because of the gray area, the the same reason we're covering it, the same reason Netflix did, there's some there's some questions there. And I do think that'll be presented in 15 years to say, hey. I did not kill these people intentionally. I'm in here for a crime I did not commit. Done fifteen years. I've learned my lesson. I'm thirty something years old now. Well then she she'll have to come forward at some point and be like, Yeah, I was trying to say like s say you d stop pretending you don't remember. I I I mean I think that's the safest bet for him. Take some accountability here. I don't remember she won't do it. She won't do it. She's gonna she's gonna go to her grave saying she doesn't remember. I did see some things online that says that she s may have said she saw orange lights right before hitting the wall. I don't know. She's definitely a liar. There's no doubt about it. And I think when you look at her, there's something about her eyes to me. sitting across from her and that and at that table in that prison, like you just look at her and you could tell she's lying to her teeth. That's my opinion. Okay. Yeah. Usually I'm the one that's going this hard. I mean, listen, the Netflix did her dirty by leaving in there where she's got like this emotional kind of you know presentation to her and then she looks over at the lawyer like, hey, anything else I gotta say real quick? It's almost like an actor. Dude, Netflix does everyone dirty and that's why it's so hard for me to like take it because I know what they do. I know what they do. That is fair. But it's fair they they had a narrative that they wanted to put across the not sure did. But I from people online and people from that community, apparently there was even more. Oh, I believe it. Even the incident that you referred to earlier in this episode's getting long, but she there was at the end of the episode, McKenzie's parents are like, oh, we have text messages saying that it was actually Dom. Putting her in danger. No, Dom opened the door because she was driving and was refusing to stop. Oh, in the the earlier July incident. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yes. And then and then the friends. She tried to turn it back on him. Yeah, the friend said he saw a scuffle inside the car and then McKenzie was like raising her hands at Dom. And he heard her say, I'll crash this car. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what he says. That's what he says. That's what he says. And I mean, yeah, it could be He could be He is Dom Small. So okay. So but that's what he says he heard. And so I yeah, it's just hard for The very young girl, I I know teenage girls. To me, they're all kind of psychopaths. You know what I mean? Not all of them are driving into walls at a hundred miles per hour. Their their brains haven't developed. They're very selfish. And I don't mean just teenage girls, teenagers in general. Like their brains haven't developed. They're geared towards being selfish. So I don't like to say That girl's a psychopath. With Michelle Carter, I had no problem saying it because there were so many text messages. And to see her telling him to get back in the car when he said he was scared and wanted to get out, like honestly, Michelle Carter, who's already out of prison, by the way. She uh She can f right off, but it's it's har it's hard. Well, I'm glad you kinda took the other side on this one. I think you're gonna be in the minority. I know, I know I am, and I'm probably gonna get destroyed and and somebody's gonna be like, Miss Depanya. Well you're not saying she's not guilty of a crime. I'm just saying it's hard. You're you're saying that you didn't see intent proven here, which is a valid argument. Yeah. I it's a valid argument. I think they just built up a case and and painted a picture and and show that There's no other way around it. Unless you're absolutely an insane person. who has no self preservation, you're like, I'm gonna kill us all. Yeah. It's crazy. Thirty seconds, man. It could have been a crime, you know, uh just a heat of the moment thing, but I also think it's possible she just was Scaring them and And uh I hope that's what it was. I mean for me, just so it's very clear. I think she deliberately hit the wall. I would expect If hypothetically, I know we keep going back and forth here. If she was driving at a high rate of speed to scare them. and then unfortunately misread how much real estate she had left in the road. What would you expect to see when she realized that? a jolt of the steering wheel right at the last step. How about pressing the brake, Stephanie? What's your natural reaction when you're about to hit something? You hit the break. Her foot was down to the floor on that gas pedal. as it hit the wall. There was no attempt to stop. I mean, it's hard sometimes. I think when you look at like what people do and you could never imagine doing that yourself, it's hard to uh wrap your head around it. So well, I don't know. I'm gonna look more into it. Actually, I'm gonna look more into it. I've been reading more into it. That's what I was doing today before we sat down. So I definitely want to look more into it and and figure that out. We want to hear your thoughts on this one, guys. It's a polarizing case, hence the reason that Netflix covered it and it's gonna get a lot of We we wanted to cover it because we got CrimeCon coming up in a week or so and we know it's not By the time we would be able to cover it. be too long for a a crime weekly. So we covered it here. Let us know your thoughts on it. We'll be back later this week with part two of Carrie Farver. And so we're going to keep diving into it because this is a Angled Web. What a tangled web we weave. Yep. Everyone stay safe. We'll see you later this week. Bye, guys.