The Collapse of the Republic

Have you been enjoying my podcast and now want even more history? Sign up history and watch the world's best history documentaries on subjects like How William Conquered England What it was like to live in the Georgian era And you can even hear the voice of Richard III We got hundreds of hours of original documentaries, plus new releases every week And there's always something more to discover Sign up to join us in historic locations around the world and explore the past. Just visit history. com slash subscribe It's very hard. T to imagine early Rome knownowing All that would come It's veryy hard to imagine it as a smattering of Little dwellings perched atop the now famous Seven Hills, clusters of small farming plots, wattle and dauub huts, the Tiber Rriver running below It's iron age people just sort of milling about, tending their crops, trading their livestock, harvesting salt and timber down at the water's edge. But then every great empire has to start somewhere and Rome started here. These little hamlets, villages would become the epicenter of one of the greatest civilizations in history You'll all be familiar with that joke that men think about the Roman Empire every day. And as a man who does, I say, off course we do. It's not hard to see why. At Rome's height it encompassed parts of at least fifty modern countries and something like a fifth of the entire world's population at the time The Romans laid down founding principles that still influences our societies, our law, our governance this day. They forged trade routes across Europe, Africa and Asia, they built the roads that connect us They gave us a religion still worshihiped across all continents So how on earth do these little villages coalesce and grow to become a mighty emp So powerful so influential, so instrumental in building our modern world Why did it thrive How did it manage to see off all of those competitors? Well, for the next few weeks every Thursday we'll be answering some of those enormous, those important questions, some of the greatest Roman historians we know ill we join the likes of Doror Simon Ellot Professor Peter Heather and Professor Mary Beard And our first episode I think it makes sense to go the way back to the beginning. We're going to trace the rise of that empire from those little huts, that little settlement in the first half of the first millennia BC We're going go right from there to the cusp of Augustus taking power as the first emperor of Rome. We're going to trace the key moments, the big battles, the extraordinary individuals who shappe the story To do that, I am joined by the One and onlyly. The Force of nature that is Simon Eliot, he's a best selling historian archaeist, author and broadcaster, an expert on all things Rome This is our series on the rise and Fall. of the Roman Empire Enjoy Simon, thanks going on the podcast. Absolute pleasure, Dan's always lovely to come and join me on history here. I'm alwaysascinated by empires that have the name of not of a sort of region, a province, a country or state as we know it' say like therish Epire Russian empire. but which have the name of a How Like this is the Roman emmpire, It's not the Italian or why do we associate it with this well, what musts have been quite a small settlement back in the day? Because within a few hundred years of it being founded, it came to dominate its entire. entire known world And it is true to say, well, you know being fact it was just that little township. That was what conquered the surrounding countryside then just went on and on and on. Absolutely. but also it's really beautiful origin story or I should say origin stories. So you have Romulus and Remus who are the sons of a Vesal Virgin called Ra Syilvia, who is forced to abandon them on the banks of the Tiber. and they were I'm stop there wait a second. Vestal Virgin is meant to be a virgin and she's a priestess, effectively. Yeah. Right. But she has two sons. And the father is Mars. Mars God of warar. Mars God of war. Okay. so that's more a mythological origin story you'd say. Well, let's go through it because the key thing is it's important to the Romans It's very important to the Romans. So Ry Sylvia goes to a sanctuary of Mars and then she leaves and she's pregnant and she's got two sons who are born, Romulus and Remus and she's forced to abandon them on the banks of the river Tyber. And there theyre say by the river god Tiberinus O course and then they're raised and suckled by a she wolf, of course But later in life, they become aware of their origins, they realize that they should have been plers in their own world, but then they fall out because they al light on a place where they want to found a city. this is the city of Rome. And it has seven hills famously. and Romulus wants to found the settlement on the Palatine Hill, which later becomes the site of the Imperial Palace Remus wants to use the Aventine Hill, which later becomes one of the fabulous sort of districts for people to live in. So all well and good, but they fall out and ultimately Romus kills Remus, of course. So there's a first learning experience there about the Roman world. It's gritty It's violent. It's gritty, it's violent and they know it. they know it. And they're raised by wolves. They're raised by wolves. Right. guys's tough. Okay, well that's the origin, that's the mythological story onene that the Romans believed What do we know from the archeology? What do we know from other texts? What was there before Rome? Were these Greek peoples, Greek settlers coming in? What's going on here? But Dan, there's another mythological story as well. So let's do that one It's never ending in the Roman world. So the second mythological story is Aeneas, who's a refugee from the Trojan Walls.es. And Aeneas lands somewhere near Anzioso, a precursor of the Secondld War invasion. And he's the brother of Paris and Hector, so a royal pr. escaes from Troity, okay Lands Anlio like the Second Wld War. And then his son is the one who actually in this mythological story, founds the town, Albalonga, where Reheya Syilvia came from. So It's all very confusing. It's confusing for me. I'm sure it's confusing for you and Aice as well. It was confusing for the Romans. So we have the great Virgil coming in with the Aenid, his astonishing poetic narrative where he ties them together. and from the point that's written, that's what the Romans go with. Oh interesting. That's what the Romans go with. And it's important for the Romans, right? This is a very traditional society. very traditional society so they love grounding themselves in the narrative of their history and this is what they go with Okay, so they think that they're descended from a mixture of Wolf raised brothers Troian princes who've come from the east What do we think? I'm sorry to be a bit skeptical about that, but what is an Italian place, a Greek place? They settlers, they Phoenicians. Where are they coming from? I'm going to talk to you about the great Roman Bakoff. So it's all about layer cakes. So I'm going to give you a geographical slice through The Italian peninsula we're looking at about five hundred BC. So at the very top, Cisalpine Gul, north of the Po Valley, you've got the Gauls living,, Cisalpine Gul. Funnily enough, Transalpine Gaul is the other side of the Alps. That's where the other Gauls live, but the Roman relevant Gauls are in Cisalpine Gul. Below that you have Etruria, so the Etruscans who are heavily influenced by Greek culture because they're a mercantile maritime nation. Then you have Latium with a variety of different towns of cities, Rome is only one of them. so it's astonishing that Rome comes to dominate Latium, let alone everything else. Then below that, you've got Magnna Grachia, sort of where you have the Greek settlements, through the Ber Salerno through towards Sicily. So just like New England is on these Cast North America, you have greater Greece, which is of Greek settlements in southern Italy. Absolutely right But then to confuse things through the spine of Italy, through the Appenine mountains, you have the Oscans speaking peeoples, which is a very old language actually, and it's from the Oscans that later you get the likes of the Louanans who were the founders of places like Pistum and also you get the Samnites who are one of the later Roman major enemies in the Italian peninsula. So it's a layer cake. So at the point when Rome is founded, however it's founded, whenever it's founded, it's one of a number of powerful growing towns and cities sort of in the Tiber area, which we call Latium So when Rome was founded and the traditional day is what seven five three or something? Yeah. seven five three. Do you think there's any truth to that No, okay. no. Got no no open noing So but when it's founded, so roughly speaking, five hundred BC, six hundred It was just what little mercantile community, people gathered together and the nearest one could have been a few miles away. their sort of, you know, nearest competitor or Nighbours. Absolutely. And the interesting thing there then is how the Romans came to dominate the rest of the towns in Latium. Yeah because they're the same people speaking the same language So there's something different about the Romans from early on And then if you go back to their origin stories, which they believed There is a grittiness, There's almost a darkness there, actually, the willingness to do whatever it takes to win. And this later plays into the psyche of the Roman Republic later and then the Roman Empire preincubpator dominate phase where I say the Romans had two things which gave them an advantage over every other the people we're going to talk about today always came back and they never accepted a peace agreement unless it was on their own terms And that's a big deal actually. When we talk about the Hellenistic kingdoms, they just didn't understand that at all They just completely were wrong footed. And the other one, Dan is they were great at nicking other people's ideas. Okay. So if you run through a little bit further before we go back, if you look at the classic Cesarean leegionary, he's got a Gaallic helmet includosing the name. he's got Lauri Camat Chain mail, that's from the Gauls. He's got a Gladius Spaniianis, that's from the Spaniards, He's got Pillam Jabvelins, they're from the Spaniards. He's got a Scootem shield, that's from the Samnites. Everything's knited But the Romes were very good at nicking ideas and technology, especially if they lost If they lose, they almost always come back and they're better. Yeah, that is the interesting thing about the Roman Empire is they're not invincible. They get shwed all the time through their history, but the point is they come back. And we're going talk about some of the biggest shoings right on this pod. Well becausecause greatness is actually forged in defeat. That's the truth, Simon. It's easy to be great when you're winning but real greatness is when everything has gone disastrously wrong. Exactly right Okay, so they're a town in Latium I'm thinking five hundred BC so you've got Athens and Sparta a magnificent building, greatreat big site. Rome would have been what a collection of mud huts during that Athenian Glden age. what were we thinking? Absolutely. Yeahah we let's run through to three hundred twenty three BC when Alexander the Great dies in Babylon So the great things happening in the world building up to the real rise of the Roman Republic which actually takes place probably as you get into the third and second centuries. The great things happening in the East. So you're having the Greco Persian wars, you're having the Pelopnesian War, which involves Sicily. you're having the Various campaigns of the Greek states against the Persians later, getting the rise of Macedon, then you're getting Alexander the Great and Alexander the Great literally conquers his entire known world, trruly astonishing feat. That's all happening. So in a way, what's going on off in Italy is a backwater. It's almost irrelevant. When Alexander the Great dies, the contemporary sources don't say his next offensive was going to be against Italy, It was going to be Arabia You know, So why bother with Italy? So in that sense in actual fact, you can almost see that the Romans, with their grittiness and with their ability to o most other people's ideas and technologies and culture given a free hand And so we'll run through to three hundred and twenty three. They're fighting various wars against the Etruscans to the north and they're losing, but then win. They're fighting various wars against the Magnagracians to the south, but losing and then win They're fighting their own Latin city neighbourors and they win. They're fighting the various tribes in the Appeni mountains And they win, they're losing and winning and losing, but they're always coming back always come back. So as you get towards the time when Alexander dies in three hundred and twenty three, they're more or less beginning to dominate, certainly central Italy. are looking towards the sou. Alexander the Great might have heard of them. Someone might have said, you know there's a new lads on the block therere in Italy. they're not doing too badly. I have to say that's a really good question actually, Dan I wouldn't personally definitively say he would think that Rome is important at all. There are much more important cities in the Italian peninsula. So for example, when I'm leading to in Campania, the place we go to first is Piston, which was Poseidonia, which was an amazing sort of port with through the best classical temples in the ancient world. You'd probably heard of Poseidonia, mayaybe not have heard of Rome. That's a really good question. And again, you' said the Romans are adaptable, greatreat. Is there anything else you can identify in these early days? They just Are they better at mobilizing their citizenry? havere they got better? Why are they taking the fight to these other neighbourors and why are they winning? They don't like kings. Okay They really they really, really don't like kings. So the last Erusco Roman King Tk and the Pow was overthrowed in five hundred nine BC and that's when the Roman Republic begins. So five hundred nine, five hundred nine. that runs all the way through to twenty seven BC when Augustus is acc cllaimed the first emperor by the Senate. So that is the Roman Republic that we're talking about there. And they don't like kings You can see by analogy the same thing happening in the states today where you have campaigns saying no kings. So it's intrinsically threaded through Roman psyche from the point Tarquins discarded that no more kings. And that's quite energizing because you're taking on kings elsewhere. it must be quite cool to me that ye, we're the guys now of a king. And they're quite clever at sharing power. So let's quickly run through Roman society. Bottom slaves, then freed men who are manumitted slaves, then free men who had never been slaves, and then three classes of aristocrat cururial, so the middle classes Qions, the knights, and then the senatorial class at the very top, which is a tiny percentage of the Roman population even into the empire. Now the important thing is there that the senatorial classes although theyre teachers of throats all the time. in terms of political unity, for most of the time, they actually worked in the best interests of Rome. So you have two consuls all the time. So there's always someone who can go and campaign and someone who can run things in Rome. You have regular Magister elections, so everybody gets a say in that kind of thing And so their politics is part of the reason for their success. Absolutely. So you come up against problems with inherited monarchy. just The consle system, you're electing probably people reasonably decent at the job, whereas you might be fighting a group with a useless king who's completely incompetent. It provides the stability you need when things go badly So things do go badly frequently for the Roman Republic. So let's look at examples. We'll move into the third century BC. So the first time the Romans Hellenistic kingdom it's Pirisiparus when Pyis Viparus invades in the two hundred eighties and you have pyric victories and ultimately a Roman victory. The Romans are fighting Pike Palanxus for the first time, they're fighting and they don't like it. They're fighting Lm shot cavalry for the first time and they don't like it. And they're fighting elephants for the first time and they don't like it. But they're Romans So they learn ultimately, they win the conflict. Now the interesting thing is there, we know that Pirrus's main objective He was brought over by the Tarrentines from the southeast coast of Italy. So these are Greek descended colonial settlements in southern Italy. They've brought help from home from Greece to take on these Romans. Yeah. So for the first time the Hellenistic kingdoms in the form of Pyris are sort of in this backwater of the Hellenistic world, which is an interesting way of looking at it, because I think there's a degree of truth in that from a Hellenistic point of view That doesn't go well for the Helloenic Kingdoms, but we'll hold that for later. So Paris is actually basically trying to pair away the various Roman Allied states from Rome But the roes win And again, let's go back to true grit and the ability to nick other people's ideas. There's a line in the contemporary sources that to counter the elephants, the Romans created anti elephant wagons which had a ballistter in the front of the wagon and then two flaming poles. L. Yeah, and a size on the end of poles to ham strring the elephants per Roman ingenuity. o and you're right, the stability of the political system. So if a king loses a battle, his brother knives him the whole country collapses as the court all turn each other and you know nephews emerge and take over In the Roman system, the console finishes He hasn't been a success, someomeone else takes over the following year, there's a constitutional process. And also within that constitutional process, if the conssoul isn't any good, you can get rid of him before the end of his term by voting to install somebody else to replace him as well. So it's a really, really Compared to the fairly inflexible kingdoms that the Romans are now dealing with, it's actually a much more flexible system. So it gives the Romans an extra string to their bow. They've got the grit and now they've got the flexibility as well. If your king keeps losing battles, you can't get rid of them constitutionally. so you might'd have to kill him and precipitate a kind of domestic crisis, orr just let him keep losing battles? Or let him lead a charge from the front. Well ye, that's ideal Yeah, then you get all of incompetent sons. That's the problem. Okay, that's interesting. So Rome is So it's expanding through central Italy, it's pushing to southern Italy and well pushing throughout Italy When would we say Y Rome is a regional power. This is interesting. We need to keep an eye on this place. What year would that be? Midle of the third century. Here's our Layer cake, and the Romans are gradually taking slices from the Layer cake to the north and to the south. two hundred fifty BC is. I'm going to go two hundred fifty. yeah, The reason is because it's in the middle of the first Punic warar. The first Punic warar begins in two hundred sixty four. the Romans come into conflict with the Carthaginians. Th are North Africans. So this a regional power in North Africa starts crashing into the regional power in the Italian Peninsula. Absolutely. And the regional power in Nthfrica the Carthaginians who were originally from the Levant settled Punic, Carthaginian Punic wars, they're gradually expanding their own empire across the Western Mederrane. S see looking at the Beric Islands, Spainain ably Sicily crucially. And by this point the Romans are more or less controlling all of Italy. so they're now crossing into Sicily. This shall not stand in the Roman world. so you get the first Punic War two hundred sixty four to two hundred forty one. And so the first Punic warar is their first sort of interreional war when they're sort of going Beyond the sea, they're taking on enemies from quite different linguistic andort cultural groups. The wars against Pyris are international, but they're in the peninsula. R? Yes Wh now're outside the peninsula. So they're now going out of their comfort zone But again, this is a very lengthy war, but again, that Roman ability to learn from your mistakes and then nick your opponents's ideas is absolutely nailr. Isn't it? They become a seapal. They do from absolutely nowhere. Yeah, extraordinary. And they win What is that culture of learning? Is there a mechanism? as there sort bureaucracy? Why are they? Is it something about not having a king that makes you more open to those ideas of politicians go, let's adopt this. I mean what's going on there? I think it's been led by the military. This is a very militaristic culture. a very, very martial culture If you used to use a modern analogy in popular culture, you'd say they were the King ons writing a proper Martial culture and losing is not appropriate if you lose, you're gone, but the person who comes up makes sure that they to lose. giveive you a great example as well, marching camps. everyvery Roman military campaign in enemy territory involves the building of marching camps every night every night and it begins it begins in the Pyric wars because the Romans learned it from Pirrusiviprus And they're like, that's good We're doing that. So you've got two examples there within thirty years, something. you've got the marching camps, which are great for me as an archeologist because it means you can trace their rootes for most of their campaigns, but also they become a Navable power as well Now that's important as well, becoming a naval power and winning the first Punic warar because it drags the Romans now properly away from the Italian peninsula into the western Mediterranean. And suddenly their sights are sort of you know going, o, this is interesting. And you can imagine the Hellenistic kingdoms are this Who's that not? Yeah, what are they doing? So you got North Arant to Northfrica, they're into Spain. they're o, interesting Dancenows history, there's more on this topic coming up. 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Make the most of it at bestwesttern. com No additional purchase necessary for sweeps, See bonus Point Tin se and Sweeps rules for details and visit Bestwestern. com for complete terms and conditions What started the Civil War What ended the conflict in Vietnam? Who was Paul Revere And did the Vikings ever reach America I'm Don Weildldman And on American History hit, my expert guests and I are journeying across the nation and through the years to uncover the stories that have made America We'll visit the battlefields and debate floors where the nation was formed, meet the characters who have altered it with their touch, and count the votes that have changed the direction of our laws and leadership Find American History Hit twice a week every week, wherever you get your podcasts. American History Hit, a podcast from History Hit Whight two hundred fifty, what's next? A the second Punic Wars or the famous one where B coss out the biggie this generational struggle against the Carthaginians Ali se Predor whoever wins, everyone else loses Is that the next big stage? It is. It's an absolute classic example of a war of survival From a Carthag Unian perspective in particular, this is not a war of choice They know the Romans position to beat them on land and sea unless they seize the initiatives. So you have the great Hannibal Barker doing his hell Mary invading Italy. He three great victories. in two eighteen, two seventeen and two sixteen at Trebia, Trazyman and Kana The the losses at Kane are astonishing. One of the bloodiest days in history. And yet the Ramers come back.. The Ramans come back. So the system is secure enough to take that kind of hit Hannibal's system isn't secure enough to fight a long war And ultimately, again, he gets defeated as Zama And that's it. that's it for the Cartheag un at the end of the Second Punic War. Third Punic War doesn't really matter because that point. they absolutelyittle operation to capture Carthage again. somethingomet happens in the Second Punic War whichich is then very relevant to the next part of the story. And what date Second Punic War? Second Punic War is two eighteen two hundred two. Right,'re almost two hundred BC now. Yeah. They're fighting across the whole Western Mediterranean. So they burst avidly and they really now the Eastern Mediterranean. Oh Okay. ' there's an idiot in Macedon And this idiot is called Philip V F. who is the king of Macedon, is the latest of the Antigonid dynasty founded by Antigonus, the onene eyed and then with his son Demetrius the procedure. So Philip V F, at the height of the secondecond Punic War, while Hannibal' winning in Italy thinks it's a good idea to side with Hannibal. So it looks like he's aware of Rome. He's thinking actually we do need to get rid of these Romans. I think he's after loot. Okay. I think basically they all think that the Roman world's about to collapse so everyone wants to pile in. But his embassy to Hannibal gets intercepted at sea by the Romans So the Romans now have in their sites Hellenistic world for the first time. there's a difference here, Dan. It's very important for the rest of Roman history. When Alexander the Great defeated Darius III, the last Aemid Persian king, he inherited the wealth of the Acemid Persian Empire which is an astonishing amount of money and it dwarfs anything you would get in the Western Mediterranean or Italy, back waters This is effectively in this known world all the wealth. That's it. That's then it divied out when he dies in three hundred twenty three BC amongst all of his various commanders who then found the various kingdoms of the Hellenistic world. So you have the Kingdom of Macedon, the Antigonids You have Ptolemy in Egypt. Ptoley in Egypt, the Solleited Kingdom in Syria and in Iraq, etcetera. They're dripping in wealth. They're dripping in wealth And suddenly That' on the Ray M San said Hello mate Thever's. Vt interesting that is And that's it. that's the point. That's the point when the draw happens And that ultimately I think leads to the end of the Roman Republic. For reasons we're going to discuss. So the Romans they finish off the Carthaginians. So by about two hundred, they're dominating Southern France, bit lots of Spain, all the islands, B chunk of North Afic, we'd now say Tuneisia, Algeria, Morocco, that sort of coast And they start expanding. as with empires, that's what you do. You have a town on the coast and you get a bit of trouble with the tribe in the interior, you conquer them and then there's some else and you' got toa keep going, right? So sucked into that whole area. So tell me about when do they first march east Very shortly after. Okay So you get a series of four Macedonian wars. The first Macedonian war happens almost immediately after the end of the Second Punic War. Then you get the secondcond Macedonian war. And they're marching what through what is now the Balkans into Northern Greece. Yeah, basically, if you're in Rome, you go down the Virerapiia to Brndisi and then go across to sail across. Yeah, go across Monn Albania Albania and then you're in. Yeah. That's right. That's. And so you go, Albania is a Pyrus and then you're into Macedon itself.. So the second Macedonian was a biggie because it's when Philip V F leads his field army, his piike phalanxers and all the other sort of glamorous entities of a Hellenistic army These are the successors of Alexand of the Great R, the Romans hammer them at the Battle of Cynosopho, the Battle of the doghead which is the name of two hills. and the Rom is absolutely Ham of them And it's a shock to the Hellenistic world because at that point, the Pike phalanx is thought to be the bee's knees, Unstoppable. And now It's not. I mean it's a propermmering Then we ended up with the thirird Macedonia warar in the third Macedonia War, the son of Philip V F also picks a fight with the Romans and he won six eight he fights the Battle of Pydna. And he gets flattened as well. And I mean flattened flattened And that's effectively there's a fourth Macedonian warar, but that's effectively the end of the Kingdom of Macedon gets broken up into territories and eventually becomes part of the Roman world. So you get two major battles there, Carnosoplophilip V Pidna against Perseus and that's it, the Romans have done. In the middle of that in one hundred and ninety, the Romans also fight the Romans Seleucid warar and win another battle against Pike Palanx' at the Battle of Magnesia around one hundred ninety one hundred eighty nine. Whatere's that? Is that? That's Western Anatolia Okay, so they've moved through Masten into what is now Turkey, Western Turkey. And you know what's over there all that money. Loads of cash, loads of cash. So I have to say actually, I'm a Roman historian, I love my Romans I still want the Pike phalaners to win Okay. All those great battles are still want them to win, but you know what, Dan? they never do. Right. And just while we're here, why is that? Because from my storybooks when I a kid, it was because those Roman short swords could get in through that hedge of spears and actually get up close to the pikeem. The Rom system is more fleible full stop, much more flexible, full stop, which reflects the fact that Roman society is more flexible compared to an a Hellenistic kingdom Yeah because all those piike men, with their big, very, very long spears sharp tips It's great, but they're like aedgehog. There's not much can do, but you can't suddenly reform and point them a different direction. And going back to my earlier point as well, Dan, about the fact that the Hellenistic kingdingss really couldn't wrap the head around the way the Romans fought. So one of the things that the Hellenistic pikeen would do if they'd lost is they'd lift their pike up and that will be their sign of surrender. The legionaries kept butchering them, kept going and going and going. So they just did not get this roman grittiness, this inability to accept anything other than total victory on your own terms So the floodgates open So what we're now in the sort of nineties, one, eighties, one hundred seventies BC. And is that now just Roman conquest starts to really push east? There are other things that are going to happen. So you have towards the end of the second century, the Sybrian wars, when you get Germans from the far north of Germany, Jetlland Peninsula, Frizzia, places like that who come down en masse and actually almost get themselves into the Republican center. okay? And the Roman army is there to lose multiple times before the great Marius comes along, completely reforms the Roman leegions in a new form. This is very important in a new form and then ultimately is victorious. And here we can start talking about the emergence overtly of the two major political cultures within the Roman Senate. You have the optimartities are the pro Senate reactionaries, and you have the populararis who are the radicals. So Marius is on a populari side, later Caesar's popularities, Sulla an extreme example of somebody who's an optimartes And actually, it's the grinding between those two political classes from the time of the Symbrian Wars through to the end of the Republican twenty seven BC that actually sets the scene for what's going to happen But the key thing with Maris is this He changes the nature of the Roman leegions totally and he increases the number of legionaries in the leegion to six thousand And the revenue has probably got about thirty at this point But they're all quite the same All equipped the same way. two Pillums, Gladysuspaniansis, Lor Kamata, Gallic helmet, Scoot of S shield, all equipped in exactly the same way. eighteen hundred of them are engineers who do things like their're woodworkers, they masons, they can do everything and the soldiers as well, okay. And in addition, every legionary is also trained to engineer as well. So you have the experts fighting and the Roman legionaries who can be engineers fighting. You don't need a siege train behind you, you don't need a supply chain. It's all within that one unit and he allows him to be recruited from the poor. Okay So they become ultra loyal to the warlord. I call them warlords in my books, the warlord who recruits them. So Sulla recruits his own legions, Marrius recruits his ownegions, Cesar recruits his own legions. They are ultra ultra loyal. And that's why you effectively get these independent warlords as you cascade into the first century BC who basically they can do whatever they want Okay, so but as you say, it's so interesting so that Carthaginians get the gates of Rome. These Germans almost get the gates of I mean, even Rome now as a big Mediterranean power, it's still flirting with disaster quite regularly. It's probably because it's quite thinly stretched. and also remember At the same time, the Draw of the East So they've been drawn into Anatalia already, They're going through Asia, They're taking out the various kingdoms now sort of Byithynia and Pergamed. which are in Anatolia. and every time they take one out, whoever the warlord is becomes incredibly rich And his truths become incredibly rich. So if you're in Rome and you're an upcoming senator, you can say I want to go with that. Can Ia go that, please? And there's a scramble between the Popularis champions and the Optimarties champions all wanting to have a crack at making a name and fortune. Absolute fortune And then also you might return to Italy, you've got troops loyal to you, which is an issue Soldiers need to be kept busy. So you end up with sort of a really vicious series of civil wars. beginning again and again and again as you cascade all the way through the first century BC, the best known ones are obviously the Civil Wars of Caesar. But there are many plenty more pl plenty. And so as the Roman Empire expands, the opportunities of making wealth just blow everyone's mind And that competition for the spoils started to tear the Republic apart. It's a bad time dan to be a classical statue in Athens R're not to stay there very long because you're to end up in Raming some posost senitor ses Everything's nicking everything. Everyone is nicking everything.. You listen to Dan Snow's history hit The best is yet to come Stake with us What started the Civil War What ended the conflict in Vietnam? Who was Paul Revere And did the Vikings ever reach America Don W Weilddm And on American History hit, my expert guests and I are journeying across the nation and through the years to uncover the stories that have made America We'll visit the battlefields and debate floors where the nation was formed, meet the characters who have altered it with their touch, and count the votes that have changed the direction of our laws and leadership Find American History Hit twice a week every week, wherever you get your podcasts. American History Hit, a podcast from History Hit And then people like to Marius he defeats the Germans, but he then he will face a warlord who ends up fighting out with. Absolutely, yeah You can go through the list. There's Marius, there's Sulla, there's Pompey Magnus, there's Caesar, there's Mar Antony, there's Octavian Later and many others as well. And at one stage or another, the Popularis are in charge. att one stage or another, the Optimartis are in charge. At one stage or another, somebody's leading a campaign in Asia making vast amounts of money Another stage, somebody else is doing it and the whole Roman system' being b bent to breaking point. So when a guy like Pompey conquers great chunks of Asia, he comes back, he's unbelievably rich. He's got loyal troops. so briefly, he will sort of dominate the politics in Rome, almost a dictator in all but name. Until Juli Caesar arrives cross a rubicon and e legs Right. Eactly Julius Caesar though, does the same. He conquers what is now France and bits of Belgium, into Germany, and all that kind of So he gets loads of money in loyal followers and then he comes back to Italy. So it's just inherent that the system becomes unstable. Hugely unstable, hugely unstable. It's interesting with Caesar When I was doing my research for myi biography Cesar, basically it's called Julie Cesar Rob's G greatreatest W Llord. and I came in the book with a series of traits that all these warlords had to a greater or lesser extent. So the ability to communicate with people high and low, true bravery leading from the front when you need to tactical and strategic acumen, various traits, and Caesar's the only one for me who has them all, the whole p. And that's why he becomes so, so dominant We should say, apart from foreign enemies almost toppling Rome, just quick shout out for Spark because the slave reolt people have heard of that. I mean, that shakes Rome to its foundation as well. What date is that? That is early in the first century BC. and it's the third serervle revolt. So it's the third major slave revolt actually. So gigantic slave revolts that require total mobilization of the Roman state to feeat all these enslaved people. The Romans are absolutely terrified all the time with slavevery revolts. It's a big deal. That's why In the Roman world, it's very rare to get a ratio of slaves to freed people of any more than about twenty percent because they're terrified of slavery bs. It's astonishingly violent, isn't it? I mean, there's just you're fighting. Foreign enemies You're fighting slaves within Italy And then you also start fighting each other. Sons T on S right, cling on ye In the end, all these hyper wealthy bitious root, what leads to that republic? So the empire has grown And yet in the center, in and around Rome They're just going after each other You know, Sulla arrests, executes opponents Pompey does the same Julius Caes all famous to do the same and become al Mister King in all but name Why is there that astonishing Bakown at the heart. Why did the system break down? Money? It's a hellistic wealth I think the access to the Hellenistic wealth which Alexander the Great capture from the Bacamemir Persians. was so great bents the nature of Roman society at the very top. because suddenly if you were able to capture a fairly small kingdom Anatolia, then you're going to be a multirillionaire and anybody associated with you So your troops are I'mbelievably loyal to you No one's going to argue when you get back home unless they are also a multirillionaire as well. So the whole nature of the topop of Roman Society has been bent and changed by this wealth. And then your loyal legions fight their loyal legions. They do, they do. And often what you find is that when the legions are defeated and usually the leader, Pompees, in example, are killed A lot of the Legionaries will move over to fight for the new guy because he's got all the money,. And it's an issue, to be honest, because if you think about when Octoum becomes the last man standing after the Battle of Actium He inherits sixty legions sixty and that's six thousand men legions Even with the amount of wealth Romans have got now they can't afford. Key inherits serve hundreds and hundreds of poolyyrene galleys in the Mediterranean, and they've got no opponentents anymore, so they're useless So this is why one of the great things Augustus does, is he's the next great reformer of the Roman military after Marius because of that As you cascade, you go past Caesar, being assassinated in forty four. you then end up with another round of civil wars An round of civil wars. And finally, the last man standing is Octavian. Octavian, who is Caesar's great nephew. Yeah. So Octavian defeats People that assassinate Caesar, all these other warlords Then Octavian finally turns on his brother in law, Mark Antony, the final clash of the two greatreat warlords for control the Roman world, Tavian wins and he becomes the Emperor Augustus. It's also more importantly control of the Ptolemaic Empire in Egypt. Right. So that's the last vaguely independent Hellenistic kingdom. which is fabulously, fabulously, fabulously wealthy. And it's where all the bread for Rome comes from. Exactly, yeah. Okay. So that's a big deal. And then that's said Everyone just goes, you know Try, wouldn't it? Yeah Because you've now had civil wars rocking the Roman Republic since sort of Marius. Yeah. So well, most of that first century BC Yeah, you've now got one warlord left standing. And do they deliberately say at that point, look, we've just got to change the system here. This is Bonkers. Effective, are we going to make you emperor for life do because he's in such a powerful position peace to the Roman world With all that sort of tribulation and the fighting and everything, even though youve got the wealth coming over from the Hellenistic world, it's not good for business So what the political classes want is stability. They're being assassinated And they're losing all their wealth and there being out pasted and out play by the Novau Riche who themselves are leading their campaigns in the east. So the political class in Rome, the senatorial class, they want basically some stability. And so you have the Pax Romanna brought in by Octavian and the Senateor acclaim him Augustus and say, okay, we'll leave it to you, Crackon. And then he begins his reforms of the military. So that's the beginning of the story of the Roman Empire What's weird that during our first century BC, Romans are at child's throats whole time? ' at each other because the empire is still expanding. Did they get lucky there were no massive peer competitors at that time. I mean if the Persians had sort of re emerged or the Germans the north or P presumably they' a bit vulnerable when they're fighting each other constantly. The warlords are picking their fights. they're picking their fights. So for example If you're one of these warlords will say proassis or Mconate You will not choose to pick a fight with the Parthians. because they did and they lost And in fact Crass has actually lost his life killed. and his son got killed as well. And Mark Cthony, his reputation as military leader was broken by the Parthians. So I think these guys were quite canny at picking fights. and it only becomes brutal when they have to fight. So Caesar forcing the issue crossing the ubicon in forty nine as an example. Pompe can't ignore that can't ignore that. And actually, that's when he bottles it and flees to Greece