The Ending and Future Implications

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Limited time offer. restestrictions apply. new customers only. requires three hundred megab per second interternet, security ge and additionalifing service, onene year agreem, paperless billing and autoay with bank account required. Tax and fees extra Welcome to a bonus decoding TV episode about the Widows Bay season one finale I'm David Chen here with Patrick Kleig. We're going to discuss our overall thoughts in the finale and recap some of the things, some of the big reveals that occurred therein I also just want to point out thanks to all of our paid subscribers. we've been recapping the latter half of the season of Widows Bay on the paid feed. And so really big shout out to all the paid subscribers at decodingtv d. com who helped to keep the podcast going and got several more recaps that we did of the previous few episodes of Widows Bay. Patrick Klepk, this has been one of our favorite shows of the year so far Probably one of the favorite shows we've ever done on this podcast. Yeah. It was just renewed for season two because the word of mouth has been White hot on this show. it has increased in viewers since the first episode. So it's all leading up to this the season one finale of Widows Bay. There's going to be a season two. We'll talk about how this one sets it up But I do want to hear, do you think Widows Bay season one stuck the landing Absolutely.. I sort of adore this show. to bottom, could be happier with the sort of questions set up for our cessential character what they're wrestling with at the end. I think they nail that as just a really interesting moral ethical question to sort of work your way through. and it's it's beautiful in the sense that Yes, we're going season two. I cannot wait. I'm so excited to see how they try and What they do with the setup that kind of happens at the end of this season. And what else they might do with this premise? but If there wasn't another episode It would be the most ominous sort of ending to a show, but it would have told a story that you could imagine how it lived on. Like there are so many interesting threads in world builduilding that happened over the course of this episode in particular, it feels like an episode that was crafted with a sense that it was probably going to live on beyond a first season Um, but doesn't overplay its hand. Like it's it ends up still just being really solid, interesting world building builduing out a place that I want to know more about. If there was nothing left for the world of Widows Bay Nan, I feel like you sketed out an entire world that I can think about and theorize about and have conversations about. and feel left unsatisfied. So I think they have a really clear over the course of the season in which they told all sorts of great many stories along the way And like the episode of the Week stuff worked for me. broader story work for me. I I come to the end of Widows Bay as happy as one could have imagined with a season of television and I think it's going to end up standing as an all timer as the years go on, regardless of what happens in subsequent seasons I'm glad you liked it. I will say what I liked about the finale is that it feels the whole season feels like a complete idea. And I really liked how this finale brought home some of the themes of the entire season specifically around What can you control in life, right? Like Tom Loftis is somebody that like wants to control everything and I'll just say that You know, without getting too much into detail, maybe I can relate with some aspects of Tom Loftiss personal. U, but The finale is very much about how uncontrollable the world is and how we need to accept this in many ways. And so I love the sort of conclusion of this season as like, pututting a cap on this idea of what the show iss trying to say about just how life is absurd and terrible, whichich by the way, show creator Katie Dipped, I said, like thats that's what she is trying to say she's trying say horror of life and the absurdity of life coexist And that's what she tried to communic with show with us B. And I think she did a wonderful job Uh now In terms of the episode itself, though, I will say that Not my favorite episode. You know, not my favorite episod of the season definitely leans more on the horror thriller elements than the rest of the show, which I found to be much more comedic. this finale. There were some very funny moments which you'll talk about But overall, I thought it was more of like a straight up like thriller slash Solution to a mystery box thing rather than the sort of bizarre, strange off kilter tone that the show is known for and that I love so much Overall, like a pretty solid ending and we'll talk about some of the implications Let's get to it. So In this episode, Tom looks at Ruth's medical file because he's about to go over to her house and theoretically take her life because he believes that killing her will end the curse and make the storm go away and allow people like Tom's son, Evan to leave the island because he's born on the island He sees in the medical file that she can't take oxycodone and diazepam at the same time So maybe that's going to come in handy Meanwhile, u When she arrives, Ruth thinks Tom came to take her to the shelter And they kind of have a fun interaction where Tom learns much more about Rutf. I love this whole sequence because Ruth has always been a kind of quirky side character that I never thought we'd learn more about And then you go into her house and you realize he has this whole life and there is this amazing part like Oh This show Widows Bay has one of the strongest of any show that ever likeike the props are just next level art design and and implementation into the show. but Tom sees how full Rof's calendar is including Deirra down and help Deirra up What is that? Well, it turns out there's this a woman named Deirra that needs help coming down her stairs every day. And you just realize like this person, Ruth has occupied lake one percent, maybe less of Tom's brain space But then when you meet her, you see like how full their life is, it like expands your notion of who they are. And I think that's just true of anyone in real life as well. and I love that it happened in the show Um Ruth also shows Tom Evans's bedroom, like where he sleeps over. and she says, I bought this car poster at a garage sale and it's like a poster. It's like a It's just a random car. It's like a geo. It looks like of cars. It's like a Honda Civic.s like it's just like a nineteen eighty six Honda Civic. it's harious Uh, anyway, the ladder anythingything um Fr the house toor that you want to mention' stuck out to you Well, this is one of those shows that over It's running time. your observation about the props and the sets I would love nothing more than some ability to like walk around one of these sets and like Be you get the sense that there's so much that probably doesn't make it into an individual shot But that It's lived in, it's a place. like there's a story behind like everything that is is in this space. and I'm sure it would be just such a delight to just walk around and pick things up and look at it and just get a sense of how theyve filled out the world of this place. And her house really encapsulates something that Widows Bay as a show is is striving for in everything that you look at where everything feels considered. Like this is where when you talk about You know, when when the showwinner Kate Diaold talks about how long she's been conceptualizing this show and thinking about it what does it all represent? What's happening in this space? You feel it in sections like this. Like you can only have a fullness to the world because you sat and considered it because you can fill it with things. And it's I think it's such a testament to the show that You can have a character that seems like a one off joke that is only present to sort of fulfill a bit And then by the end, they're a full character despite doing nothing other than just being sort of a bit or a passing reference. prior to this moment where they were given the spotlight. And so All of that worked. really beautifully for me. and you know, this notion of trying to express this idea, I think peopleople have, you know, if if if life is like Um, like Beautiful nightmarish We I think different people have different perspectives on like what the ratio of of that is and how you cope with it And I'm definitely probably someone that Like is more like beautiful and hopeful than nightmresish. I acknowledge the nightmare stuff but it's not as top of mind And I think this show, like this is a showrunner. who I think the ratio is different. likeike They like views life much more nightmarishly and then uses the hope So I get through that. And I think there's something beautiful about with the show was trying to express in this final scene because like the quandary in front of our characters is like I think it's very reasonable. you could give everyone on this island a full life because this one person no longer has theirs you know People like moral imp I guess not moral implications aside. like moral implications included, That's a fairly reasonable sacrifice, which are the sort of things that happen on a societal level every day. But here it's so personalized. It is not something thought of on the macro level. It is on the micro level. Like this is a person that you can look at and you have to stare in the face the idea of so many people's lives with the information that we have as we enter the episode would be better. if she was no longer here Is that worth it? Well, sure, it's easy to say that on paper, but then you've got to be the one to do it. And I think the The journey they go on with Tom to arrive at an answer to that question was That's what made the episode really sing for me Yeah, ye I I like all the little touches in the house, like when they're making the tea and it takes twenty five minutes to steep. and know he says, well, can you switch it to the shorter one? He's like I'm not gonna waste herbs. L what are you talking about Uh, and, uh things come to those who wait the little thing on the wall But yeah, there is an amazing line in the show. where he says, have you ever heard of the trolley problem? And then she says, you mean back in forty two when we tried to build one and all the workers disappeared which is just wow. that is immaculate writing. I want and I want to know I don't think that's a pass. You know what I mean? Like I bet if like There's a story behind that. Like that's not made as just an offense. like there is probably some sort of same way that we I predicted this when we first started watching the show I want to know what it's in Tom's basem I know there's something in Tom's basement He was really scared that his son went to the basement. What is in the basement? I Perhaps in season two, we'll find out. Well, Ruth says she wouldn't pull the lever for the trolley problem And she she has a very beautiful quote. and this is something that will stick with me. She says, The runaway trolley is life The lever is me. You can't control the bad things that happen in Lifetom But if I pull that lever, it's a choice And I'm choosing to kill that person, and I could never do that and quote Also she quotes from a U like what is it called needle pointoint stitching thing that she has on the wall? I can't read that one. But it's like tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny text. It's a paragraph. It's not a quote. And the Tennessee Williams quote is the world is violent and mercurial. It will have its way with you. We live in a perpetually burning building and what we must save from it all the time is love, end quote. So bea beautiful thoughts and Re. So I think sometimes you do have to make a choice. it's a beautiful thought, but I actually think it's the coward's way out. Wow. Which is But I guess we know what Patrick's perspective on the trolley problem is. But why I love that it's expressed in that exchange because She does not understand the gravity of what is context of Tom being there but they are representing dual approaches to the problem, which is acceptance that there's an ethereal being that is damning us like here on the island, but like L you can view life as an ethereal being like damning us to like the island that is existence and you know, how do you deal with that? Like how do how how do you wrestle with that? Do you and but here basased on the information that Tom has There is an action that could be taken that would meaningfully make many people's lives better. and then I guess for Ruth, it's like, well, that' The taking of one life despite knowing those actions is not worth it. And then for Tom I said, I think it might be. And now I'm not the one that's actually having to kill an old lady, but You know, you know, stepping back. it's like I do think Sometimes you do have to make an active choice to like for the veterance of others. and then it becomes a question of we get it. we get it. You would kill the old I would kill her. don't need kill her. You don't need to say it so many times. You're not going to kill Ruth. Maybe I don't know if I could have You strike me as very much I'm going to kill. I didn't even know this is a quest. Like the way you're framing this back to me is like I'm sort sort of, I'd feel like you'd be the first person in the door. like, Oh, Patrick, you don't have to do it. I've got this We would walk to the door together and be like, no, I'm good. you can stay in the car. Maybe, maybe, or maybe I would listen to what Ruth had to say You know? It's smart to always have a few financial goals, and a really smart one you can set, earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover You can this Discover automatically matches all the cashback you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. and we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover d. com slash credit card. This ad is sponsored by ZockDoc. Hi, It's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. Have you been putting off that annual doctor's appointment because you don't w to make the call? 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ZOC DOC and book that appointment on your to do list maybe. Anyway Tom decides to take the Patrick approach and mash up the drugs for roof. Uh, but As Ruth is passing out, he has some actual introspection He says that he knew something was always wrong with this island when he still brought tourists here He knows he's put these families in danger While Ruth is drugged out of the couch She confesses that she had an affair at forty years old and had a child I love Tom's growing sense of alarm when she's telling a story It turns out that the child is actually Tom's wife Lauren and therefore Evan is a descendant of Richard Warren. Ls go. No. I will say I watched this with my wife and her friend and they predicted this two episodes before the end and because it's like, hey, they never explained what happened with the wife and the wife's always been mysterious. and so It's, you know, there we were all kind of like predicting what's going to happen at the end. What's going to happen at the end? It's going to turn out that like Evan is a descendant of Richard W And that is in fact what And honestly, part of me wishes Patrick, I hadn't watched the show in advance so that I could have predicted it last week And then everyone would say, Wow, David Chen You're very good at this But I couldn't Because I saw it already You know it reminds me of u This is a thing that used to happen during Casta Kings is like, People would read the books And then right into the show trying to predict what happens in the future, but then like They would already know what happened. and that was a very strange thing that I thought people were doing at the time. Uh regardless I didn't make any predictions because I already knew. However, Justice Tom realizes what is going on, but sheer storms in and shoots Ruth even though Ruth ends up surviving So yeah, so that's basically what happens with the Tom and Ruth storyline. There's a bunch of stuff that happens at the shelter. Any other thoughts on the Tom Ruth storyline before we get to the shelter stuff, and the ending A No, it's was I just thought it was very effective. like I think this is a difficult show to find a conclusion on, right? Like the format of the episodes is such a U I think makes it interesting to try and to weave together the monster of the Wek plus an arc that like is sort of And so I think the show does the best that it can. And I think It makes me very interesting to see how it would do that in the future. But I thought this was like really satisfying. like it gives It's always nice when each of the characters, Tom is present in so much of the show often in an ensemble capacity, and it's just so much fun to watch. Matthew Reast, like kind of do a woner. I know that Ruth is there, but like really this is the Tom show And he just I think he he really sells like the moral complexities that he is wrestling with u throughout this. So I don't, I just it all worked for me and I was u And we'll get to it, but also I finally happy with how well we're not happy, but what happens from here is also extremely good So back at the shelter, Wick and Patricia tried to keep the situation under control. Again, shout out to the props. We see like posters on the wall of how to survive a human bite and all these other things that are amazing Uh as our as we discussed last week, Bashir's baby is coming tonight It's funny to hear some lip from the doctor when he says, Ohh, I'm you know, but sure says She's seven weeks away from being due. and he says, Oh, I'm sorry, I guess I didn't go to medical school. I think all these widows bay people have a big chip under their shoulder patr. Dale finds an old film that's made for people who have already been chosen by Widows Bay to be and offering. We learn some things about how this offering process used to happen. There is one soul for each bell toll And there's all these creepy rules given and advice given Uh the guy on the video the the sort of film says Their fear is necessary. They say it likes the taste quote, which is Pretty creepy thing to say There's great social unrest at the shelter and Bashir then learns what Tom's up to and goes stop in Rus's house Evan and his friends venture underground and find a really sketchy room But a man named Kenny goes and shos them out of there And then seemingly is consumed by the island beast or whatever to sayate it And then the storm goes away I have to say I was mildly disappointed that This seem to happen basically seemingly by random happenstance, right? this guy being in the room and like he just happened to be in the room at the right time and then that's what happened I wish there had been some more purpose towards like who it was that ended up dying and making the storm go away temporarily. U so that was one element of the show. I didn't really like that much. You know, I mean, I wanted that finale part to be more U affirmative, but more thematically resonant. Patrick Any thoughts on this whole shelter subplot U I also I have slightly mixed feelings that look You were I will not believe any who tells me that the little video down there wasn't just a direct callback or inspiration to the Dharmot Initiative videos from Lost. Like it just is like one hundred percent feels like you were pulling out old reels to find out like, oh, there was a way we did things down here that you just didn't know. There's a very the shelter is just a hatch David, I in a different in a different way. And if you also I going to say a lot of like fallout the Prime video show energy in the video as well. like some very like they're discussing this horrifically dark topic in a very kind of light chipper manner. Yeah which is don I guess have to see how plays out. Like I don't have like strong feelings one way or the other, but it does sort of come out of left field that Hey, by the way, like just in the basement we're like A bunch of like, you know, reels of film that explained how they used to systematically slaughter people to the great beast down here That part is, I mean, I can believe it that there would be sort of a culture some sort of initiative that like by the people on the island who know what the deal is, like how do we protect ourselves Um, I, you know, maybe that is when Ruth makes a mention about building a railroad and everyone goes missing. sureure can't help but imagine that like thats the belt hold And then suddenly you got to bring those people down into to the shelter to feed them. But That stuff is sort of It's a little weird and also it just felt like to give that one character something to do. but I'm interested to learn more about the more formal qualities of how the island has been operated becausecause given the fact that Um dire things get when the sacrifices aren't made that of course, leads you to understandably figure that someomebody's been doing the work in the background. Yeah, the most implausible thing I would say is that nobody passed this information on in a concrete fashion before the point in time. Right. rightight? Like like there's all these people that are reciting all the stuff that's happened on the island. Like the old guy and Wick and all these people, but no one has said, like, hey, you need to sacrifice a person at this time. Well, the something this I I can't remember what did the early notes to the pastor read. somethinghing along the lines of like related to the bell, right Well, so what we do learn in this episode is that the island creature thing requires one soul for each belt toole now I went back to episode two when we heard the bell toll at the church for the very first time in the show, I believe. Right. And I counted the bell tolls And in the episode, we actually hear nine bell tools. Then at the very end of this episode As the episode ends, right? Tom goes to the beach And he takes the little warren pin and chucks it into the ocean And then we hear the belt hole again And it tolls eight times So I think the implication is that it needs nine souls to be fed. And then it has been fed once and therefore needs eight additional souls. That's what I think I'm not one hundred percent sure about that. And if I'm wrong about this, sorry and please don't get mad at me in the comments Um, but That is my understanding is basically like the ending is very bitterseet, because while their immediate danger is over they still have to deal with this curse and they still have eight souls that they need to surrender in order to in order to survive, basically and quench the island's thirst It is in fact a very bitterseet ending, right? Be They haven't really solved the problem at all R? They know that Evan is now a descendant of Richard War and he can never leave the island unless the the cur like The curse is broken in some other way, which we don't know yet how that could happen Rut has Ruth has lived as well. So it's she somehow survives being shot by Bashir at the very end And so there are still at least two descendants of Richard Warren alive on the island Um So it's kind of a sad ending Uh and, you know, when Chom, when Tom chucks that pain into the ocean It has this air of, hey, I'm moving on. But they haven't really been moving on. likeike they're not really moving on. In in fact, they're still like really in the middle of it as far as I can U So yeah, any thoughts on on the ending and may, you know, you know, any thoughts on the season as we wrap up this conversation Well, I looked up what the letter said to the priest, and we don't get to read all of the instructions, but the priest, Reverend Bryce reads a note that says Sh the bell toll there are steps you must take. On the north side of the rectory, there is a chamber where you will find dot dot dot. And like that's all the insight that we're given. And obviously, he takes his life, you know, in the show. So I believe he began to take the steps till he realized what actually is going to do. but it certainly suggests that the church was one of the ways in which they were You know, sourcing and like this is how you protect the flock like and part of doing that is participating in this sort of devil's bargain that was struck. you know, many, many years ago, but Yeah, like