Nicolas Cage Performance and Future Potential

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Limited time offer. restestrictions apply. new customers only. requires three hundred megab per second interternet, security ge and additionalifing service, onene year agreem, paperless billing and autoay with bank account required. Tax and fees extra Hello everyone. Welcome to a special bonus episode of Deoding TV. I'm David Chen. Joining me today is at Joy of Napping Online. We just call her Joy on the podcast that I do with her. Joy, thanks for chatting with me today. Thank you. I feel like I come in on decoding TV every now and then or decoding reality and it's just a little f a little sprinkle A little sprink, a little spice You know, it can't be the stew that would be too much But you put a little spice in there, it works. Well, like the Asian women in Spider Noir, I am happy to be here representing. Indeed. So today we're going to be discussing Spider Noir. Patrick Kleopk and I discussed the first few episodes of the show, and we were both overall pretty positive on it But we are going to be discussing season one in its entirety. And so you should assume there's going to be spoilers in this episode of the podcast And I'm just going to start by saying that U you and I started watching a show when you actually got physically ill unrelated to the show And you said, hey, I'm not going to be able to do anything today. So if there's something you want to watch Let me know. and I suggested Spider Noir. I had no idea if the show would be any good or if you wouldd like it Uh, but We started watching it and you were transfixed by it. and you ended up marathifying the whole thing basically in a day or two So what was it about the show that had such a hold on you overall You know, um It's a little bit of faint praise to say it's a good sick day show But there do you ever have you ever had this experience where you get sick and you're like, man, I wish there was this show that was just diverting enough to take me out of my misery, but not so incredibly complicated in terms of requiring my focus that I could theoretically fall asleep and then come back and restart that episode. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, because if it's a show that's really, really, really good, you want to have your full faculties. Absolutely, or has tons of mythology you know U like Noir you know, the genre that this is in it is, which is lurid and kind of painted with big strokes of you know what I'm saying? Sure. It's not a subtle genre.. It was perfect because it's very entertaining Yeah. while not necessarily being deep. And that is not an insult at all I think it is a great piece of episodic television that is the right length. Each episode has a cliffhanger and it is the right it is a season of television, which we often it feels like we don't get, right? We get abbreviated almost like miniseries or we get things that overstay their welcome Yeah, I mean, I think the common trope that people say is, oh, it's actually a ten part movie You know, And I would say that episodically the shows are the episodes are pretty satisfying, right? Like there are some episodes that tell within them a self contained story and that is good. And then the season itself tells a fairly self contained story as well. Yes. absolutely. And if there were no more episodes of the show, I think that would be, hey, that was time well spent. We had a good time with these characters and Nicolas Cage's rendition of Spider Man Uh As of the recording of this podcast, there has not been a season two that has been announced despite the fact that the show is doing quite well on Amazon, but it seems to have been extremely expensive And so I don't know if they'll think it's worth doing a second season. That said Yes, very satisfying episodic television, very satisfying season of television So yeah. And I think there are many things about it, which are successful references to comic books. I mean, comic books are themselves issues, right? They come out and they have the same structure where each one issue tells a story, but it ends with a cliffhanger so that you buy the next one And you that vernacular I thought the structure felt like a comic book. The visuals often were references to the way that frames can be split or you know action can be divided across the screen in different interesting ways. So I loved it also because all the things that make comic books yummy and you want to keep reading them, I thought were also on screen So as we got to the end of season one, like we all found it to be a satisfying conclusion to the season U the finale I should say And You had three points you wanted to make about this season of television that we could share with our listeners today Um Yeah, I think so I am not a huge comic book fan. I just grew up with a brother who was, so I've read a bunch of them because he had them around And I've not necessarily been super stoked about all the multiversseess of comic book storytelling recently. In some ways it has felt like, oh, this is just a way to keep telling very similar stories but with slightly different tweaks or in the case of the Spider Man movie with Toby McGuire and The gentlemen from Broadway Andrew Garfield. Yes, And Tom Hollin all togetheret. And Tom Hoin, Yes. Right in no way home At times, it feels like the multiverse can be sort of an excuse to do fan servacy things. But what I really like about this the plus side of the multiverse is you can really, really, really switch genres. And so after saying all the ways in which it successfully references comic books, I think the best thing about Spider Noore is it's a really good NR And how would you define a really good na? Like how do you to measure that U So film noir, as many people will remember, is built around a trope of a very hard boiled protagon male protagonist, often a detective, a cop, someone down on their luck and kind of beaten down by the world who encounters usually a film fatal who is the sort of catalyst for the action. There is often a mystery to untangle And Noir, it's so stylized. You know, it's got one person really close up in the camera frame and one person in the far distance, you know, framed over their shoulder a lot of the time. Oop filter sometimes You know, the way that the women are photographed is often as objects of yes, it's a male gaze, but it's like a pretty specific form of male gaze, which is like the woman is often not just sting, but extremely dangerous. And so I think, you know, there's a reason that this genre, that they made so many of them in the first place, there's a reason that they continue to be popular, which is I think many people understand the idea of being kind of midlife down on your luck, things have gone really poorly for you to be in this situation. and then something comes that feels like it's going to reorient your entire universe. And that is so alluring And yet also you should be so extremely worried if you're the protagonist of a NarR film, whether you're in double indndemnity or Chinatown or whatever And I do also think the period in which most Film Noir was made is visually very striking. and this is set in that period. this is set in the mid nineteen thirties And so it's also a longing for the time of Art deeco Yeah. I think this show definitely nails the aesthetics of Noir. and also, as you said, many of the main plot elements. I will say I didn't find the quote unquote mystery to be super compelling And by the end, I don't really think the mystery component is that important to the actual success of the show You know what I mean? Like was there wereere you kind of like, oh, what's going on with? Who really betrayed Silvermane? You know like were those really the questions that were driving kind of your watch of the show? No, So I actually was not interested at all in who betrayed Silverme. But I think the question is, why are these characters like this? Right? So it's basically an origin story but not told you don't watch the origin. you uncover the origin in flashbacks and you know, through. But it's interesting, like that's not the reason like Kat goes to find U Ben Riley in the first place. She's not like, I need to know why people are like this. Like she has a whole different mystery in mind Uh and then like Oh but Nor tangled. you never know what the mystery is.'s. There's something at the end of the day where they're stealing all the water in Los Angeles and that's what's behind this real estate deal. You know like I think that was a spoiler for a major you know famous Mor movie, but I think in this case, it's u The woman shows up And it seems like it's the catalyst. No one knows who's playing who, the hard boil detective knows I need to stay the F out of this and then gets drawn in anyway, discovers something about himself and that knowledge and the antidote that he could choose not to be who he is anymore. He has a literal escape from the identity he's been trying to give up for years is that's the propulsive part. And is that a mystery? The mystery is like the thriller part is what is he going to do with that? Yeah. And not only him but also all the other people who happen to have these same have the same origin and have therefore could be quote unquote cured by the same antidot And we do have to just say that the way it reveals the origin story, I thought was really compelling. Like I'd never seen an origin story like this before. Obviously, watch we watched it mostly in black and white, but the idea of, oh, it's these POWs that they're being experimented on and that's how they got their powers. U and the reveal of exactly how Ben Riley got his pow is extremely upsetting and very memorable So I thought the origin story stuff was done very well because I couldn't believe when we flash back to World War one, I wasm like are we doing battle scenes? they old costume. Like this is really really elaborate. Aaz. You know, so maybe the The story does or doesn't work for you, but for me, Again, the reason I think it's a satisfying noir is because it doesn't actually quite fall into some of the traps of that. which are? Genre. Well, I mean, the alluring lady is usually pretty two dimensional, partartless bitch And I thought this was a two and a half dimensional bitch with a heart. And there we go There go So that's an advancementning Yeah. Through the course of the season, they establish what I'm going to call the family unit. So a lot of shows, but especially detective shows have a stable cast at the center that sort of ort and interact with the detective The reason is that for whatever reason in detective fiction, the detective is always single The detective's never married. the det, you know, maybe they're mourning a past love like they are like he is in this case. And so by the end, we have this family unit of him The newspaper editor, his assistant detective, and this little urchin That's the family unit. And you know we're gonna like kid from weapons. That when you come back to this universe for a second season, you're going to be able to interact with this family unit and see their dynamics. And your warmth for that family unit is a ton of why people come back And you could say it in Archule Poro and Captain Hastings and Miss Lennon. You know, that's a family unit in the Poro show. I don't know if that's making sense, but Well, I thought the family unit in this instance had great chemistry and I agree. It was wonderful to I thought the ending was really satisfying where he kind of adds her to the mas tad of. So it's a much more U I don't want to say wholesome because that's not quite the word I'm looking for, but it's like emotionally a much more positive place than most noirs end in because most noirs end Darkly as the name would imply. Bter sweet at least. to always have a few financial goals, and a really smart one you can set, earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can this, Discover automatically matches all the cashback you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. and we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover dot com slash credit card. This ad is sponsored by Zak Doc. Hi, It's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. Have you been putting off that annual doctor's appointment because you don't want to make the call Or maybe you've been meaning to find a new dentist, but you have no idea where to start. I find that's especially true when you move. It's hard to find your people. I've been there, which is why I use ZakDoc. Now as a busy podcast or parent and someone who's always juggling a million things, I love anything that makes life easier. And ZockDoc lets you search and compare local in network doctors with over two hundred fifty thousand providers across more than. two hundred specialties. you can read reviews from real patients, find a provider who feels like the right fit, see actual appointment openings, and book instantly I recently had a last minan and health issue pop up and needed to see someone fast and instead of calling around or sitting on hold, I found a doctor on ZDoc and booked an appointment in just a few minutes. It made the whole process so much less stressful Taking care of your health just got easier. downownload the Zak D Today that's Zak Doc ZOC DOC and book that appointment on your to do list U Okay, so that's one is Spider Noir is a very solid Nor. I think if you'd like film Noor, you will like it All right. what's the second of three points that you have to make about the show Um actually think this show is a real win for representation and I'm glad it's not necessarily being touted as that because that That can feel reductive sometimes. Absolly. You know, like she's a superhero, but she's a Muslim teen, you know, like Michigan Was she in Michigan? I don't remember. And I think the The situation here is one I've just almost never seen We have an Asian American Femm fatle Yeah. who looks and is styled like anime Wong film actress of that era, one of the only leading Chinese American actresses we've had. Yeah, who is apparently an inspiration for the character is. I mean, it feels a very direct Anna Me Wong for those who are't curious Yeah. And And this character is often either when a female Asian is on screen, a dragon lady so she's fire breathing evil and aggressive and metalcul metaphor. What is the type of the Dragon lady Or a sort of sex worker slash concubine vibe, you know, that you get. And Grace her name's not Grace She's Grayson Cinner. so I keep doing this. Yes. sorry Um the actress who plays Cat is uh L Jion Lee Lee gently Um, is given so much more to work with. So she has a lot of Dragon Lady characteristics. she has a lot of sort of concubine characteristics from the outside, but she clearly has a mind of her own when she makes decisions, they're all rational. They're for reasons that are developed for her interior. It's pretty clear she's in love with the one guy and she's not really that in love with Nicholas Cage and she's kind of like, well, I could run away with you too. And I mean, you know, think'ss I believe the characterist that she's a whole person, you know So the thing I haven't seen is then we get another woman of color in the core cast It just feels very rare that we get two women of color They have nothing to do with each other. You know, it just feels like often there's one slot for a woman of color or one slot for a person of color Yeah. And certainly if one of them's Asian, you know, like There's maximum one other person of color in the cast, but we have a black Uh, you know, major supporting character. Yeah and L Lamourne Morris plays journalist. And the journalist is shown U Also a great moment for representation, going to Harlem. There's clearly like an edited out storyline where he becomes the editor of the Harlem newewspaper. R instead of getting his old job back, but he's going to he's going to run a black owned newspaper if there's for a second season And I feel like there's a lot of opportunities and there to see different onents of what nineteen thirty six New York would have looked like. And so anyway, I was really delighted by the range The women are given even a scene together towards the end with no none of the men in it. And so it just felt like especially with The Secretary, I believe, Janet Yeah gettingetting her own name on the door at the end that, you know, it takes her seriously. The story takes her seriously. aggreed. and her contributions are valuable to what Ben is doing. so. And I've not seen this actor before in other things and I thought she held her own very well against Nicholas Cage Yeah, aggreed. The actor by the way, who plays Janet Ruiz is Karen Rodriguez veryery talented. So and I do think the representation in the show feels quite effortless. it's just like, hey, these are just people who happened to be around at the time. and their race is still an important part of who they are. U But they also have a meaningful role to play in the in the show. I mean, at the time, so the main antagonist played by Brendon Gleason is And at the time, the Irish were considered like filthy immigrants, you wouldn't want With all of the same. And that's a huge part of that character's story as far as I recall. I felt that they took some pains. They took some pains with the specificity. And it's not overly laborious. and honestly, when you put a lot of work into understanding the time frame, it becomes effortless looking because you just make choices that are coherent with each other. So yeah, that was another thing is it's Sider noir And in this fantasy, we get to see the stories of multiple people that aren't just one type Absolutely All right, so that's the second point is that it's a win for representation And what is your final point about Spider Nore? I mean, I just freaking love Nicholas Cage in this. I I know Um He has had a late career Rennaissance and He is obviously famous for the many off screen proclivities that he has, is that fair? What proclibivities are you referring to? He spends a lot. Yes, that's a proclivity. Yeah. Big one. Yeah And I feel that in the later, you know, in the let's say last five, seven years where we've seen him come back to screen more often, he's often Ping Almost like he's playing Nicholas Cage the character, like literally in the movie with Pedro Pascal, where I can't re unbearable weight of massive talent So that is a very direct reference to himself, but he's often kind of Nicholas Caging it up. Yeah. And what I love about this performance is it reminds you Nicholas Cage can act He can subsume himself into The detective from the nineteen thirties whoo you believe is a very, very sad very sad detective of the nineteen thirties who also has a bunch of glitches because he is also a spider man. And the way that he physically portrays the I would say obviously he's probably a little bit older than the ideal person for the athleticism required for the Spider Man. But the parts where he is trying to fight his nature as the Spider Man, it feels just like really built for Nicholas Cage. Well, he is clearly playing someone who's about ten to fifteen years younger than the character is Or sorry, then the actor is because Nicholas C about sixty two, I see this guy as like in his late forties. Yeah. I think that's exactly right. And that's the age that his love interest is. Right, right And At first I was like, okay, well, that really is unbelievable, especially because they'll cut between like CGI or stunt double Nicholas Cage doing a bunch of crazy stuff and then cut to Nicholas Cage and he's moving much slower. and it's distracting However Kind of worth it because at various points you see Nicholas Cage the actor recuperating after doing the fight You know, he'll like shake his body off. Yeah ye weird stuff and And it's like, ohow, that's classic cage. I felt like the performance became more unhinged. like I don't know what order they shot it in. Yeah, but I felt like the performance became more unhinged as the show went on is that they really let cage be uncaged as the movie went on. show very much in a way that was like really entertaining. I mean, I assumed that was the character Arc as he becomes more comfortable with being Spiderm Man and not having to suppress it Yeah And, you know, there are the spider as he's called. The spider. I think like there are