Familial Dynamics and Future Expectations

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I recently had a last minent and health issue pop up and I needed to see someone fast and instead of calling around Or sitting on hold, I found a doctor on ZakDoc and booked an appointment in just a few minutes. and made the whole process so much less stressful taking care of your health just got easier. download the Zach Doc Today, that's ZakDoc, ZOC DOC and book that appointment on your to do list Introducing the Total Solutions advantage only from Comcast Business. It's the largest fastest fiber powered network for small business, gig speeds with equipment and security included and a five year price lock No one does business like Ccast business. Let's Switch today. Get started for sixty dollars a month for twelve months when you add an advanced solution to a qualifying internet package. Limited time offer. restestrictions apply. newew customers only requires three hundred megab per second internet, security edge and additional qualifying service, one year agreement, payerless billing and autoay bank account required. Tax and fees extra Granger knows, when you're a procurement manager for an office park You're not managing one building. you're managing all of them And to stay ahead, you need to see through walls and around corners. Light's about to fail, filters ready to clog, HBack on its last leg? If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind Count on Granger for quality products, easy reordering, and twenty four seven support Call one eight hundred Granger, click Granger. com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done Hello everyone and welcome to Decoding TV, a podcast about television I'm David Chen. Joining me as usual is Patrick Klepk. Patrick I don't know if you've heard the good word, but I David Chen After eight or nine months away, I'm returning back to the United States Next week Yeah, gotta be got be mixed feelings on that, huh? Do you want to get in a cage and fight in front of the White House? Damid? That's what we got going on over here. comeome on down. I saw I was like, I really want to live in a country where people engaged in mortal combat in front of the place where the president does his business is really do I have a country for you, David? That is incredible. That's incredible. Anyway, todayoday on the podcast, we are going to talk about that UFC fight a little bit because Patrick caught a glimpse of it We got some TV news for you to discuss. And then finally, we're going to be concluding this week With our show of the week, I also want to mention a couple of other things that you should expect coming onto the decoding TV feed in the near future. First of all, on the last episode of the podcast We ask you, hey we're exploring this idea of doing a Dark Matter season one rewatch. And essentially, if we started the rewatch next week, We would get to the end of season one of Dark Matter right as season two of Dark Matter is about to premier onppleV on Apple TV And so we said we asked people, hey, would you be interested in us rewatching Dark Matter and going week by week We've never done this where we re watched like an older show Uh, but we wanted to see how people felt about it and asked to writeing to deccodingVGm d. com I'm going to say this is the biggest reaction we have had to anything we have done on this podcast So far including the pit even, I would say, right? Dark Matter fans finally being spotlight put upon them and saying there are dozens of us. There are dozens it is our time to shine And so so many people wrote in and said, yes, they would love to have this happen which is awesome. I love to see people enthusiastic about stuff I think there's an opportunity to do something cool here becausecause Dark Matter is based off of a book And so what I'm going to try to do is read the book alongside the TV show as we rewatch it and hopefully give some insights from there That is going to be the plan. It should be a lot of fun. So starting next week, we're going to try to cover Dark Matter season one, all nine episodes right here on decoding TV. and we'll do week by week So we hope you will join us And also if you want to read the book, of course, you're welcome to do that. No spoilers for future as are the rules with any podcasts I'm on U But that is going to be the plan. Dark Matter, season one episode one Next week on decoding TV. thanks so much to everyone who wrote in at decodingTV at gmail. com So that is what the plan is going to be. Of course, we still have some shows of the week that we're planning to cover throughroughout the summer, And we will eventually cover week to week shows like Lanterns and Dark Matter at the end of August. probablyrobably also Ted Lasso is going to be a show of the week that we will cover But next week House of the Dragon is going to be show of the week I also want to let you know that there are I'm trying to work on episodes for Uh like a bonus episode about Spider Noir and also a bonus episode about the new Netflix documentary Maternal instinct with Christi Bosch, who I just covered Michael Jackson, the verdict with on the bonus feed as a bonus episode, I should say. So look forward to those And then Patrick Kleopick and I have been covering Widows Bay season one The latter half of the season. on the paid feed This week on the free and paid fee, there is going to be a Widow's Bay bonus episode covering the finaal So a lot of stuff, lot of stuff Happing on the decoding KV feed, we hope you will join us for as much of it as you can or want to But yes, just to recap real quickly Dark Batter season one Episode one next week on the show And by the way, our show of the week is going to be House of Dragon but you will be able to hear week to week coverage with Jesse Earl and Kim Renfow on the A cast of Kings podcast as well. So h just letting people know about that. And then Widows Bay coming later this week. And hopefully, if I can make them happen Bonus episodes on maternal instinct and Spider Nor, but we'll see, no promises on that yet. I'm trying to make it work because things are really busy U One last announcement. I know this has been a long segment at the top of announcements, but I just wanted to also mention that Ne week's schedule will probably be a little different. We'll probably release the episode later in the week is my guess, just because I'm literally going to be in the process of flying from Portugal to America during that time. So Um, FY, the schedule might be wonkking for a little bit, but things should normalize in July. so just wanted to let people know. Okay L lot of housekeeping, sorry about all that, but thank you so much for staying with us and we are for looking forward to covering Widows Bay and Dark Matter for you in the next seven days as well as House of the Dragon And of course, Cape Fear todayoday our show of the week Let's get to TV newews, Petroclepic U Speaking of Widows Bay, huge TV news this week Widows Bay renewed for season two on Apple TV I have to say, if you've been listening to our bonus episodes as a paid subscriber Patrick and I basically called this renewal would happen in literally this time frrame Right? Like Um If you look at Margot's got money troubles The season two renewal happened Between the airing of the penultimate episode and the season finale And that is exactly the same time frrame they use for Widows Bay seeason two Patrick Clepp at your quick reaction I mean, it's my guess is this decision was made a while ago and part of how it lines up is to give the audience a reason to stick around. notot only just as a subscription to if you signed up you know, Apple TV specifically to watch Widows Bay, but also, hey, like your commitment to the show is going like we're going to reward that. like the show is like there's more Widows Bay coming right as it's finishing up as opposed to the way it kind of gets lost in the sea if it was to come, I don't know, evenven a week or two later when you've moved on to something else. It's the summer. Your lives get busy. So it frankly makes a lot of sense the way they it sounds like intentionally structure their renewal announcements. and it just You know, we'll get into it, but like I'm I'm just so excited to see The show becomes in multiple seasons because, you know, we'll get into it in talking about the final episode It could end this way and be just fine. And also like there's so much room to explore what else is happening on this island and I I cannot wait Yeah, I'm really excited. I think they've created something super special, but Widows Bay is One of those shows that gained viewership as the season went on According to Pure Logics, a analyst company, Uh, they estimate that Three times as many people are watching Widows Bay today than watched the first episode of the show. If I understand their numbers correctly That is rare in general on TV. like a lot of the times the shows decrease in viewership But this is a show that had white hot word of mouth People love the show And I think they're doing something that is unlike anything else on TV I really liked Katie Dipppold's statement about the show when it was renewed. She said seeason two is about how everything is great on the island and there's nothing to worry about. That was in the Apple TV press release Announcing season two of Widows Bay We will have more to say about the Widows Bay season one finale in the bonus episode that comes out later this week that will be available for everyone free or paid But I am really excited about what they are going to be able to make and it just really deserves a lot of the praise that it has been getting So yeah, very, very exciting to see that we're going to get another season in Widows Bay. I also just want to point out, Patrick. I'm going to just put this out there. When Widows Bay season two happens, which based on existing TV schedle is going gonna be about three to five years. who knows I'm. It'll probably be like twenty I'm guessing twenty eight. that's my guess for season. I guess is it's like an eighteen month. like Apple Plurbus aside is actually one of the better Yes, like Severance and plurbus exist in their own universe, but broadly speaking you know, Apple doesn't seem to be going for a pit like efficiency, but it does seem like you can certainly look at shrinking other shows they they seem to be able to get back on on board within the next, you know, two is years. My My only real question on that is you know, if you you sent this, you know, wonderful piece from was it the Hollywood Reporter about sort of the behind the scenes of making the show Widows Bay and has been something like the Kate Dipppold has been thinking about and writing and rewriting for quuite literally decades at this point. Yeah so You know, before before she worked on parks and recreation if you can imagine, you know, Yeah, before that show even began to give you a sense of how long And so it just makes me wonder what, you know, how much in that process does that leave her in a place to think about what's coming after? I that's I'm sure we'll hear more about that as, you know, the finale rolls out. There'll be lots of interviews with the cast and with Dipold in particular that I'm I'm fascinated to know how much By the time Apple Widows Bay arrives at Apple TV how much of that conversation is We have a sense of where we could go if we'd like to go there and in many ways kind of dictates quite a bit un like how fast do they the ground running on that on that second season. But I'm with you. I think. I think this is like silo territory where you know, a year and a half later, you're probably getting a second season. Let's hope so. let's hope so I always remember theds of Ricky Gervase when he talked about making the show he made after the office about how like U, When you're a musician, the first album you make is about everything you haveve learned up until that point in your life. And when you make your second album, it's about everything you learned between the first album and the second album. So I am curious, you know, like that's I'm not saying that that's what's going to happen with what I bay, but Uh I am because it's just Widows Base seems so perfectly formed as a complete idea. And so I'm really curious how they're going to try to make lightightning strike twice here But what I was going to say was Patrick, whenever Wows Bay season two prepare premieres. I can pretty much say that is going to be a week to week show for us. Oh. Yeah. We to make the same mistake. It wasn't a mistake. We just, you know, you can't you know, picking those is a fineal. I think it was a mistake. I think it was a mistake. you know, I watched the whole season. I was like, should we do this week to week And I'm just going to say, okay, like You never know if people will watch an Apple TV show. I just there was a little bit of that. Yeah. Right. You know, like it's like, okay, well, And then it's like and is there is there that much to unpack in terms of the secrets? I don't actually think so But I think it's just fun to hear people react to the episodes. You know, And if you're listening to deccoding TV, you probably just want to hear us react to what's going on in whatever TV show you're watching. and a lot of people are watching this one. So whenever Windows Bay season two comes out, Assuming decoding TV is still around, assuming we have paid subscribers at decodingTV. com still supporting us We are going to be cover in Wowsay season two week to So anyway, looking forward to that All right, it's time to get into some, I'm just gonna to say very depressing news But first, you know, let's let's start let's, you know, actually, let's end with this this fun one pack let's end with a fun one Let's let's go into a lot of the depressing businesses that's been going on this week U So first of all, just in before we started recording, Fox is buying Roku in twenty two billion dollars deals Reeting here from Variety Fox Corporation is making a dramatic move to hitch its future to the streaming world. Unveiling plans to buy Roku in a deal that values the streaming platform at twenty two billion dollars. The companies expect the deal to close in the first half of calendar year twenty twenty seven. The deal would combine Fox's sports, news and entertainment content and the TubI service, with Roku's connected TV platform, the Roku channel first party data, and direct relationship with more than one hundred million global streaming households And quote, they also estimate by the way that this would make it the third largest player in the TV space, I'm not mistaken. So this in the United States, I should say. So this is a pretty big deal I should point out, this is not the same as the Fx Entertertainment cororporation, like the u iet century Fox that was acquired by Disney right? This is it. The corporation that was left over after Disney absorbed those assets, which includes Foxports, Fox News, Fox newews stations, and so on and so forth U But yeah, they are becoming a very credible presence in the streaming world now And also like to be is quite a big deal now. It's like a very credible force where shows and films that premiere on Tubbe can actually start generating significant viewership Combine that with Roku's hardware and software ecosystem. And I do think they now have a very clear pathway to millions more homes in America Patric Klep any reaction to this news other than that It is another depressing sign of further consolidation in the mediaust. Well, I was just recently discovered we bought a TV to hang on our deck. and b I was looking at like, what's like the best like It doesn't need to be a good TV. This isn't like the where I'm playing games It just needs to be something that could like show sports, casual in the background And u The kids could watch something reasonably and And I was like, Oh Vizio, was like, those are fine. And then I was like, how do I find a Vizio? was like, whyy are they only at Walmart? Oh, because Walmart bought Visio and like now owns that entire l sto. you can only buy them from Walmart anyway I think what this tells me is this is twenty two billion dollars to buy eyeballs. The hardware ecosystem is sort of a well, they make TV's But ye what you used to do was buy a TV and plug things into it And right. I don't know that many people would argue that the Roku interface or the Vizio interface They're not good, but for a lot of people, They're good enough. right It's not bad enough for them to plug in Apple TV or, you know, if you have a fire stick or something like that plugged in, it's there because you had it plugged in before But like if you bought a new TV and then oh, you can just log into Netflix here. probably not going to depart from that landing page And so I think this is really Understanding that Roku has acquired an enormous footprint through their cheap TV's in which they then down an interface that people are fine enough using. I doubt most people have an opinion on the Roku interface. It's just there and it gets them to the things they want to watch. And then it's an interface within an interface, right? Like it's, you know,, so this really I think this speaks to Eyeballs attention economy. That is what is worth money these days and so Fox is spending twenty two billion dollars to get in front of X number of eyeballs because they just happen to own The cheap TVs I mean we live in we live in an era where everything is more expensive. One of the few things that isn't are televisions. Televisions are cheaper than ever bigiggest possible scale and maybe some of that will budge in the future, but right now it is still incredibly cheap to buy TV's I would have killed for, you know, when I was younger. and Roku has been one of those. that's just a good enough TV at really good prices And now they've got an interface slapped on top of it. and I think that's what that's what that's what Fox is buying I am curious if we're going to see some synergizing within Roku. Maybe they'll do more to integrate Fox properties into like I'm not sure is allowed under antitrust or competitive business practices uh, whether they can like come pre installed with Fx stations or anything like that. I don't know, but I am curious, you know, whether we will see some more tight integration there Um, But yeah, I think that's a great analysis, Patrick. and u they are buying eyeballs. and I do think this deal will get them a bunch. So we'll see how plays out, but The company that owns Fox News Now owns Roku So that is Cool. Real? Re kick in the deice. Speaking of incredibly depressing news in the American media business industry. According to political, Justice Department approves Paramount's acquisition of Warner Brrosers The Justice Department's antitrust division signed off on Paramount's one hundred ele billion dollars acquisition of Warner Brothers, allowing the blockbuster media merger to move forward. And I think the The key here, Patrick is I'm reading here from Bolitico. com After an extensive review, DOJ officials determined the transaction did not pose a threat to competition and declined to challenge it, said the people who were granted anonymity to discuss sensitive matters, The department approved the merger without requiring any divestitures behavioral remedies. or concessions according to one of the people. And typically in this case, when you acquire a big company, I'm sure you saw this when u Microsoft is acquiring activion one of the biggest ging acquitions of all time, right? Like The Just Department and other Justice Department equivalents around the world. can ask for. divestitures, behavial remedies organitions. They can basically say, hey, if you're going to acquire this massive company You need to commit to this. You need to commit to You're going to make u You're going to keep making Game of Thrones for ten years and you know, make it available for streaming other streaming services or whatever, you know, you're going to do that you have to spin off CNN. You have to do X, you have do Y, you have to Z They can ask for these things and negotiate what might make it more competitive Patrick, it turns out that We were all worried about nothing, because according to Justice Department, there is no necessity to do any of those things. Well I don't know. this language is important. extxtensive review No ye which is just it wasn't just like a cursory review. So I mean this piece just reads onlyn slight offense meant to the to the writers whose violin is attached to the top, but like you just published a press release. like you just carried water. for the DOJ yeah here. I Like using words like extensive review is just laundering their own propaganda through here. So I never I never if the paramount deal with one of those ever going to fall through. It was never going to happen as a result of the United States. It was always going to have to be some sort of external pressure from the EU or somewhere else trying to squeeze. It doesn't seem like There's a lot of appetite for that. in some ways that it's sort of funny because I think that reflects a lack of Like the Netflix thing feels I think you and I ended up like I think for Warner Brothers for society it's probably better for it to end up there than it is to end of a paramount But also there's more understandable concern over the monolithic nature of Netflix and where they're headed in terms of the footprint they have over creative output. In some ways, you can view the lack of investigating whether this creates a monopoly as sort of like, what do you think Paramount' going to do? Like take overver entertainment just because they brouought Warner Brothers? Like there's no confidence they're going to do that. In some ways, I feel like it's an indictment of the entire endeavor of their ability to build like a studio system that people are actually going to be afraid of. So I yeah, this this has ended up exactly where I expected to And then, you know, itll only be with hindsight that it becomes clear you know, how destructive it truly was Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest, it's hard for me to think about this because it's so depressing. I imagine You have similar thoughts witnessing everything going on in the gaming world right now, right? Like These are not industries that feel like they are functioning well within our current financial and corporate envirment They are industries that continue to consolidate. There are industries where there are thousands of layoffs every single year people where people need to find jobs in other industries. and there seems to be no sign that this is getting better at all U I am really fearful. Here's a couple of questions I have about like What happens after Paramount acquires one abo is, right Number one is what happens to the taste of The people at HPO that have been making hit after hit making event television. And by the way, making the shows on which This podcast relies to continue existing pretty much, you know, like A huge portion of the shows we've recapped and reviewed are shows like The Pit and House of the Dragon and things of that nature where Uh, they know how to make event television. they know how to make monoculture television that gets everyone talking. And even if it doesn't fit into that category, it's at least interesting art like Barry, which is a show that not very many people watch, but was a fascinating, great show. and you know, things that things like that U So what is going to happen to the people who are putting out, you know, basically What I would say are glorify Dad movies when they get put in charge of a studio that's churning out Oscar winners and other award winners that are like defining our culture. What happens to the taste at that point. And then in terms of pure numbers, I'm really worried about the movie industry patroglypic. We saw this when Disney acquired twentih century Fox They said, Hey, we're still committed to making movies with twentih century Fox For the acquisition, twentiet century Fox usually release about twelve to fifteen movies a year. But After they were acquired by Disney that movie, that number got cut in half roughly And so it's like, What's going to happen with Warner brothers, one of the biggest producers of hit films rightight now in existence. And so what's going to happen when Paramount acquires? are they going to continue making movies at the same rate? Absolutely not. R? How much of it is going to take how much of it is going to take of a hit is it going to take how much u lower our industry revenue is going to be, How is that going to affect theaters? It's just going to have all these cascading impacts that will be Really, really terrible. and I'm dreading it. I'm dreading. So when I saw this news My heart sank. even no one expected that it would go in a good direction It's like you and I were like, man, I can't wait until the Justice Department finally puts the screws to those paramout guys. Yeah. but It's just another sign that what we predicted is going to come to pass and very, very depressing. Well at least when all of HBO gets rolled into the wonderful Paramount Plus app, you know, when I log in for the UFC fight, I'm already logged in. I'm ready to go, David. Like give me the content Well, speaking of that, Patrick, let's just talk briefly about that. I'm reading here from NBC News about that story The headline is lots of knockouts, pageantry, and a few big upsets At UFC event on White House Lawn. Reading here from NBC News, in one of the most surreal sporting events in history The UFC hosted a fight card on the south lawn of the White House on Sunday And even with rain and gusty winds threatening to derail the mixed martial arts card, it mostly went on his plan with President Trump watching on night from the cage side Next to UFC President Dana White More than four thousand spectators, including Trump, Vice Pident Jade Vance, Mmbers of his cabinet, including Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Secretary of Deense Pete Heexsef. VIPs and active military members were' on hand as cage fights took place just feet from the oval Office At one point the crowd even saying happy birthday to Trump as he sat in the audience. presresident turned eighty on Sunday. I know some people that watch this entire thing Patrick, you watch just a few minutes, right? Yeah. Look It is worth every once in a while, David. to be reminded that you can be surprised Shocked Uh by the events of the world. that you haven't lost the sensitivity to upsetting things that make you a human . Yes, yes, yes, yes. And so I it was quite literally, this TV I was setting up on the deck. I was we were I was trying to log into Disney pllus so we could watch hoppers with my daughter out there and I saw the in the in the Wonderful Viso interface. Of course they're promoting the you of fan. I'm like, all right That was that's happening. That's the thing that that is happening. In the future, people will say in the wonderful Roku interface, off course, they're promoting the Ay fightxactly that's the future we're heading forwards. So I clicked on it because it's like,h Morb curiosity, I have to see like what the I'd seen some of the photos of the construction like happening out on the south laawn of the White House over it. It's like, I need to at least This is as grotesque of a display as it is. May you live in interesting times? Boy do I? And I at least have to see a little bit how this is being presented. So I logged in Um my my my sixth year old comes waddling out and it's like, why are? Why are those boys beating each other up? and like it's like you know, like you know how you do cheerleading? Like some people just hate each other That doesn't make any sense. I'm like you know what? decent analysis kido, likeike that's that's fair I see where you're coming from. And then my wife had no idea any of this was happening. walks I was like what's in the back. backrop of this fight.s, what are you talking? I wass like, Is that the White House? What the fuck is going on? I'm like, I love you live just disconnected enough from the world to not know that something like this is happening. And so we we only watched it for a couple of moments just long enough to get blasted by three different crypto ads, which be they were subsidizing a lot of the event was just non stop someome coins, some crypto thing that I'm sure is all connected to the Trump family one way or another. But yeah, mostly it was moreorb of curiosity on the other, I was also glad to have witnessed born witness to some part of the skeptical and that I have a capacity for disgust. because like we're tested on a daily basis, David. whether it's still possible. And it turns out I can still look at something like that, something associated with trauma go, ew Don't like that, which is, you know, that's great. G me. good job. Good job I mean I'm just going to put this out there. I think it's actually one of the least offensive things that have happened since from your office So it's fair. A lot of people getting riled up. I'm like, you know what? this is actually Not but when you compared to, let's say the gutting of US aid, you know, like that's but it the way, you know,, you know, it's it's part of what makes Trump so so insidious is the encroachment upon culture, right? Like So yes, I agree with you prractically speaking, the gutting of those things like the things that Doees did purity s it's like, all, well rightad on the news. that's a nightmare Okay, time to turn on the TV. T to watch these boys punch each other. like one then one guy' up Michell Obama is a man. I'm like, what is what what What are we doing? This is for the two hundred fiftieth anniversary. the United States is like we're shouting racist like remarks from the South lawn when people beat the crap out of each other. G, you know what deeply reflective of the rot at the heart of the United States. so maybe we deserve it. but It uh it was truly a spectacle. just, you know, not one I'm all that interested in, but u It's a thing that happened, David. Yeah, and I should point out that I wasn't trying to imply that you weren't outraged by the. No, no, I know you're an I know But I think it's like U it honestly, it feels about right. You know, it when I when I contemplate it, it feels like, hey, this is this is a proper representation of the state that things have descended to H People have brought up idiogrphy a lot and it is I think idiocracy is supposed to take place like hundreds of years in the future. So I think the only difference between idiocracy in real life is that we achieve that point much faster than I think a lot of people thought spepeedrunning. you know what? Speedun for us. Good for us Yeah. I mean, we're able to reach a level of stupidity that they they literally could not even fathom when they made that film. So I think they underestimated us is kind of the main point there This ad is sponsored by ZakDoc Hi It's Danny Pellllino from everythingverything Ionic. Have you been putting off that annual doctor's appointment because you don't want to make the call? Or maybe you've been meaning to find a new dentist, but you have no idea where to start? I find that's especially true when you move. It's hard to find your people. I've been there, which is why I use ZockDoc. Now as a busy podcast or parent and someone who's always juggling a million things, I love anything that makes life easier And ZockDoc lets you search and compare local in network doctors with over two hundred fifty thousand providers across more than two hundred specialties. You can read reviews from real patients, find a provider who feels like the right fit, see actual appointment openings, and book instantly. I recently had a last minentute and health issue pop up and I needed to see someone fast and instead of calling around Or sitting on hold, I found a doctor on ZakDoc and booked an appointment in just a few minutes. It made the whole process so much less stressful Taking care of your health just got easier. downownload the Zach Doc Today that's ZakDoc. ZOC DOC and book that appointment on your to do list Introducing the tootal Solutions advantage only from Comcast Business. It's the largest fastest fiber powered network for small business, gig speeds with equipment and security included and a five year price lock No one does business like Ccast business s Switch today. Get started for sixty dollars a month for twelve months when you add an advanced solution to a qualifying internet package. Limited time offer. restestrictions apply. New customers only requires three hundred megab per second internet, security edge and additional qualifying service, one year agreement, paperless billing and autoay bank account required. tax and fees extra Let's continue on with the depressing news. We for months have had a Barry Weiss corner where we check in with how Barry Weiss is doing over The old CBS news and a couple things worth noting. First of all, there are rumors Barry Weiss is poised to oversee CNN. This is from the New York Post according to reports, CN CBS news boss Barry Weiss is likely to to gain editorial oversight of CNN if and when Paramount' Guidance' acquisition of Warner Brothers Dcovery is approved Accord to a report, Paramount executives are said to have held preliminary discussions with several candidates come and run the business side operations next to Weiss while she continues to oversee editorials compomanies considered big names, including current CNN CEO, Mark Thompson Caesar Konde from MBC News Group and NBC Chief News chief No upppenheim according to Axios and code This has got to be one of the greatest failing upwards of all time in human history, I have to say. I mean Uh Barry Weiss splits off from New York Times gooes and makes her own News magazine on Substack, which is responsible for a number of journalistic malpractice articles and then goes on to get acquired for hundreds of millions of dollars B Paramount CBS where then she starts running CBS evening newews and sixty minutes into the ground On to then now be tapped to be in charge of CNN as well I do want to point out that shortly after we recorded our podcast last week, Petroglypic Scott Pelly was fired from CBS. He went Sorched Earth in front of a meeting during a meeting with Nick Bilton and Barry Weiss and They had meetings to try to see if they could get to a better place and obviously they They couldn't. And then so Scott Pelly was let go and then he basically went on a scorched earth tour talking about all the terrible things that went on at CBS, evening News and also sixty Minutes. under the Barry Weiss regime Uh now Before we get to what is some of the stuff he said, including during an interview with the New York Times Patrick, I did want to ask you Number one, have you any reaction to any of the stuff that happened, but also number two, like I think you and I have seen probably you and I may have seen situations where Somebody who is a subordinate to somebody else publicly disrespects And then it puts the whole dynamic in a challenging situation where as the superior, you cannot let that stand without some kind of retaliation because otherwise, you're just saying to everyone, it's okay if you disrespect me too, right? Like it becomes an un untenable situation I'm curious, have you ever like encountered that before? and like how did that play out? in your b We are The closest I have is years ago, I went to go work for a rebooted version of EGM, the long running videoame publication. They were rebooting pitch was like this is like early iPad years. and so it was like it was going to be a tablet focused. Like this was there was a lot of talk like magazines reinventing themselves from print to digital like through the lens of the iPad. And so this is going to be Hey, let's get in early We'll do a video game publication that is like mobile focused, tablet focused, mayaybe this is where all this is going. There was a print magazine that went alongside it, but that like the idea was like leaning forward onto the what you could do more with sort of digital publishing Anyway, I want to go work there with a bunch of friends and also it was an opportunity to like work on a magazine that deeply influenced me as a kid and also was some of the earliest places that I publish when I was first starting to write about video games Uh, but the person who ran that company is a complete fucking nightmare person made the job utterly miserable, lied to us constantly about what we were up to. And when I finally lined up the follow up job to go work at bomb Um I wrote You know, my dad like But always tell me like no matter how bad things get at a job, like it's always better to just like be kind as you leave and like you never know and like don't burn a bridge because you might have to walk across the bridge against later. Somet because I wanted to just say like fuck you, I'm leaving. This is a miserable place to work and I don't want to ever come back this bridge. I like bridge should have been blown up I'll set the C four charges. myself Well, there's sorry I don't interupt your sorry. You finish, then I'll come in.ight I'm almost done, which is to say then sorry Push that down wrote emails like, hey, This is probably not going to come as a surprise, but I've lined up some a new job and this is my two week notice. Like five minutes goes by The reply from my boss, the two weeks will not be necessary. Consider your employment terminated. Oh Okay. like there's just a fine like, My dad was right in the holistic sense, but in this specific instance I should have just not said anything taken another two weeks of a paycheck. and then left for the new job Absolutely. I tried to do the right thing. It was told It was rewarded with a middle finger I've seen this dynamic now happening more and more of like I have heard Wild stories, Patrick, right? It used to be that There were like kind of unspoken rules about the employee employer relationship, things like what you said where hey, if you are going to quit, give them two weeks notice, right? That it's considerate for them. It helps them to make a transition Um Over the course of the lastess, I'm going to just say five to ten years We've seen, I would say a more a more lawless approach. when it comes to hiring. like I've heard stories of Offers getting rescinded after they've already been sent out I've heard ways in which employers Like brutal layoff stories, right And this ends up what the impact that this has. When you hear stories of employers treating employees in this fashion is then the employees have no more motivation to behave in any considerered fashion. right? And so This EGM thing, this probably happened like many years ago, right I think today it would be very Reasonable and logical for somebody to quit their job without giving any notice whatsoever Just be like, today's my last day, goodbye. And why? Because Employers have made it clear that They will not They will not take that generosity of employees. and reward them for it. Like if you give them two weeks notice, they're not going to be like, Ohh, thank you so much. likeike that's so consider of you. We will make sure this transition is smooth. They will simply extract what they think they need to from the situation and discard you And so you know, I've heard stories of like Uh Like an employee interviews at two jobs and then gets one of them and accepts it and then starts work and then literally get the offer for the second job And then quit the first job and then go to the second job, like right after like two days That's nuts. That just seems stressful. There's so much to juggle But it's like you can't you know, I don't think you can um behave in the way that employers are behaving and not expect employees to reflect that back at them. And so It does seem like a a brutal market right now where peoplee just behave on both sides in a way that maximizes their own utility. Uh, anyway I will say I have witnessed this this kind of insubordination before that is that Scott Pelly evidenced In his recent encounters with Barry Weiss and Nick Bilton Uh I've seen at a company I will not name. I've been in meetings where I've seen like a Somebody' super high up directly go after somebody who is Their boss in front of like fifty people. And U that is an untenable situation. That situation cannot last And in fact, like shortly after that One of those people did not survive, like did not survive in that organization. Unless both parties want it. You know what I mean? Like there has to be a willingness on both sides to like, hey, okay, that was we shouldn't have done that. like Is right I mean like, But usually if it's reached that point, it is because there's no version where you could find a bridge.ither You're right. So either both sides okay with the adversarial relationship. likeike they think that the adversial relationship benefits them somehow to have that, right? Like and then that they can make that work. orr alternatively, There is a reconciliation and the reconciliation is like public. You see them eating together at lunch and everybody was like, oh, they're okay They're okay with each other. likeike everything's okay, you know and But I don't think Scott is going to get lunch of Barry Weiss anytime soon Um and He went off against him during a meeting very publicly and the details of the meeting leaked and then he was fired and then now he's leaking details about what was going on behind the scenes. And one of the interesting details that he revealed during an interview with the New York Times is about the story he did on the killing of Renee Goode and the killing of Alex Preredty and all those protests And he talks about how he really tried to make it clear during the sixty minutes report that Oh The protesors were being quite violent. L they got all this footage of like the protesterors being assholes and and being aggressive and he produced what he thought was a very well balanced piece for sixty minutes that explained like, hey, the protesterors are also fifty percent of the equation, et cetera. Now we can quibble about whether or not that is accurate as a representative of what was going on at the time. But suffice to say, he was trying to make it seem quite balanced and not make it seem like one sideed like we're on the protesor' side. U But then he describes here, and I'm reading from the transcript on the New York Timess website about four hours after the deadline that they have to get this report of theror. Barry W sends an email to my boss. Two of the things in the email include Can we make the protestters look more violent I don't have a quote but that was what was communicated to me. And the other thing, Renee Good's car. You you need to describe her as driving towards the officer This is not what you see on the video on the video, you see the officer standing slightly off the front of a car And you clearly see Miss Good's wheels turned completely as far as they will go away from the officer But he shoots her in the head, kills her, and says something about her that I cannot repeat and play company We have gone out of our way in our plan from the very beginning to show the protestors for show the protesors For the responsibility they had. had already scrubbed the video archives looking for those scenes. Somehow, that wasn't enough for Miss. Weiss The video showed that the officer wasn't standing in front of the car and she wasn't driving toward him That's what the presresident said about that And that's the way she wanted to describe There was a thumb on the scale for the presresident's version of events that I felt was a level of political influence. that I had never seen at thirty seven years at CBS News End. So that in itself is quite notable The other thing that's notable in addition to the political bias is the fact that Weiss's actions is jeopardized what they were trying to accomplish on an operational level, right? Because they have this deadline on Sunday where they have to submit The report by noon is the thing he did. And he said, he said hours later, she was still making alterations because she has no broadcast news background and doesn't know what the hell that she's doing And so the story is notable because number one, you have an incompetent person running CBS evening news and also sixty minutes But also you have somebody who is going to try to sway the coverage even further in the direction and in the favor of the president ever before feels like completely unprecedented times Patrick Clpp any thoughts on Yeah, I mean, all this adds up to every time I see some anxer support about Barry Weiss is on the outs with, you know, Paramountly. it feels very much akin to a cycle we'd go through in the first Trump administration. I like man People now finally understand like how dangerous this guyss in this guy is. people are stepping in to do the right thing then just the the dangerous thing would happen anyway. I just well there is a meme, right from Bron Sammer who wrote I'd like to see all Donnie Trump wriggle his way out of this jam Trumpriggles his way of the Jemese Leag. Oh well, nevertheless, end quote. That's basically what Barry Weiss is doing in this situation. Well I think here like my read of it is like any reports that she is in trouble or people are sus like paramount leadership is suspicious of her ability to do the work Those feel like people just leaking essentially misinformation. Like everything adds up currently that they're more than happy with the work that she is doing inexperienence or not. And I expect that to continue. So I believe the reports that she'll be, you know, put in charge of some oversight and influence over at CNN because So far, I despite some really earth shaking changes happening at sixty minutes a publication itself that I don't think any It's what makes it all sort of funny is like, if you're sitting there like, damn What's like one of the most progressive you know, shows on TV really just Like Right sixty minutes is like center right. Who' which show is Lib maxing it up? right now. sixty sixty minutes is what your parents watch when they're like, you know, like fiscally conservative socially li like it's it's already a I wouldn't describe it as right leaning, but I would describe it as like like like lower C conservative. like it is it is meant for an older audience. Yeah like it just it's not it's It was just made it a funny one to fudge around with because like Thanks for P MSMB CNN is one that that makes a little more sense, right? Like like absolutely to like I think it's reach and how people view it Tilting the scale and seeing an end if you're trying to sabotage things makes more sense there in sixty minutes. like sixty minutes is quietly already sort of indoctrinating a bunch of like slightly center right like sort of politics anyway. L alone. I I'm not saying that' like good work. L era like West wing era style like you know, center right center left politics It's like my like my mom, like you're like, you know, your your, you know, your your parents watched and it's like, well, I don't really align with everything you're saying. But like there's wor stuff you could be If I had to sett up for the politics of sixty minutes I can live with it, even if I disagree with some of it. And it that's always just made it such a Um a funny project to be the one that like this is this is where we're going to start pressing, pressing the needle on Right in a way you know, I mean, we should say that as far as we can tell, everything that Barry Weiss has done has been calamitous. Like the h her some of her top The top people at sixty Mits have been fired or are leaving. CBS evening news ratings are in the toilet like there was a big come to Jesus moment where people like Leslie Stahall and other major correspondents had to decide like, are we going to Stick around and as of now they are, and so sixty minutes remains intact Mhmm. But In a way, it is a little bit more insidious way in this fashion, I think, right? It's kind of like Let's start with a thing that no one really cares that much about or that not as many people are watching necessarily, although actually, you know let me put this way. I think sixty minutes ratings are good, right? And like it is a financially successful show right. I wouldn't say that it is in the zeitgeist in the way that CNN is or that it's that it's I wouldn't describe it as hot. in terms of an aspect of our culture, right? It's kind of a very stayed old fashioned organization And just the way that Scott Pelly described how he was like, Hey, we got to make sure we show this from both perspectives is a sign that of that style of journalism and thinking Um, But maybe you start there because People will careless. It'll be easier to take that down without people, you know some people like you and me might raise us think about it, but like in general, no one cares, right? And like maybe that's the easier way to go Either way, it is depressing that sixty minutes which like is not perfect has made mistakes but in general has done some really good journalism Uh It is a huge numberumber that They are in seems from the outside like some pretty bad death throws And I am curious to see how far this is going to go before It's over So Very, very little good news there All that said Patrick, let's on this fun story. Rayne Wilson thinks that society is too woke For the office During an interview with Fox Digital Rayne Wilson, who played Dwight on the hit NBC sitcom The offffice had this to say about the office and also how woke things are today. I do feel like you couldn't make the office today. I think that would be too hard u to be as politically incorrect as the show was. I think there has been a bias in the media towards more what we call liberal policies. They're willing to overlook The pllatner a Nazi tattoo, but if it was someone from the other side that had a tattoo that was questionable, they would be all over MSNBC about it. So it's the hypocrisy that gets me the most. It's the hypocrisy of like bothoth sides need to have kind of standards of behavior Patrick Do you think that today's social political environment is too inhospitable for shows like the Office You know, I'm sorry that you haven't had a career after the office is is basically my response to that. Really see feels like wa wa like just just the most insufferable whining because you don't have that much do And when you get rich all of the office, It iss one of the rare shows that probably still get residuals off of as a result of it airing everywhere. so I don't have a lot of sympathy for the argument. the core point of If you made the office now putting aside the paper a show that it's not even clear if that show exists. I know that it came out and we watched it. but like Are you sure Are you one hundred percent sure that the paper exists? Good question. thinkink about it. You had to think about it. You're not I did. I was like, ye, wasas that just the thing I hallucinated? Was that like a web series? Thatosure Day was about. It's not aliens. It's like no this a sequel spinoff series to the to the off is called the paper. It really existed. you would do, you know, I've seen different actors that were in the office talk about that like what what would be different about the office if you made if you made it out? Well, yes, of course it would be different. It would reflect the The humor and politics and culture and norms of the areera that it's in. There would be different What would be considered edgy or like pushing the boundaries of humor? would be different in a show that made it that was made today. That's normal. That's like part of So no, you wouldn't have made the same show because of course you wouldn't have made the same show. And so it just feels like sour grapes from an actor that has not done much all that notable post office in which Well, the reason we can't make, you know, an office sequel series is because, you know, the world is too woke It was like actually like, really feels like That's just not the case. have you seen have you seen what's going on these days? I really don't that's not how I would describe How comedy feels at the moment I'm going just put this out there, Patrick. I don't think the office is edgy enough to even off any. I mean, I think that Michael Scott had some really inappropriate jokes and that's what she said and so on Maybe there's like a handful of jokes that would have been cut or that wouldn't be okay today that were right back then. But Michael Scott is supposed to be the inappropriate cringy boss. like he that is the character that he plays. And so it actually makes sense that he would say wildly inappropriate things and do wildly inappropriate things And I think largely people have accepted that when you see shows like It's always sunny in Philelphia. That show is still on the air And those people are doing canceable stuff all the time and we accept it because those characters are reprehensible. And so I think that Dwight Schrototh protest too much. I think that he doesn't know what he's talking about And he thinks the office is way more edgier and daring and pushing the boundaries than it actually did. That's not even to say anything bad about the office. I think the office was a wonderful show. It just It mischaracterizes the likeike like the comedy of the office to say that every week on the office, you were looking at like What edgy thing are they going to do this is the South what are they going to do this week of the office? It's going to shock the the neck beards at home these days, you know, like the comedy that feels stale or inappropriate in the office is simply a reflection culture changing and norms changing. And then when you look back like it didn't feel that way at the time. L like there's a reason that like, you know, it it's sometimes shocking to go back and watch films from the eighties and nineties road two thousands where you know, like when we talk like the R word, like It was just used. like like homophobic slurs like like the F slur like those just used. you didn't blink because the culture hadn't caught up to like collectively agree This is inappropriate like we shouldn't be using this stuff. So But those boundaries change over time. So it's just a I think it's I think you put it I don't put it back in that specific example too We just saw a show Use the arrsler. I'm talking about Widows Widows Bay. Yes. in a way that was shocking and funny, but that no one decided to try and cancel that show. I would describe Widows Bay is like very like a progressive I'm not it's not like a political show, but like broadly speaking is the kind of show that is not is using that word with intentionality and it itss place in the c like that's what makes it so funny when they use that word in the show because It feels counter culture, but not in an edgelordy way. It's like the show knows what it's doing and it's more effective Wing it in this moment, knowing what the norms are and what the culture is Absolutely, absolutely Anyway I guess u Ray Wilson just be saying things, you know? is the way I wanted to end this. mean, if you have time to like do an interview with Fox Digital or whatever, I'm just saying. He looks like he's propped up on a laptop on a Zoom meeting It' I literally have a you know, Rayain Wilson has, I'm going to guess a hundred X as much money as I do. mayaybe even more than that And I literally have a better podcast set up than Rain Wilson Have some self respect. G a conor. Get some good lighting, G a good microphone on there Rin. comeome on man And also stop complaining about how woke everything is The office would be fine today The office would be fine today. I submit That's going to bring us the end of TV newews this week. This episode is sponsored by ZockDoc. Have you been putting off a doctor's appointment or need a dentist and don't know where to start definitely been there and that's why we use ZockDoc Actually over the holidays, Michael had a dental emergency and seemingly every office was closed, but we hopped on to ZockDoc, found an in network dentist, had great reviews, saw real time appointments available, which was key. It was on New Year's Day, and booked an appointment in just minutes. It took so much of the stress out of the already stressful situation ZockDog makes it easy to search and compare over two hundred fifty thousand local in network providers across more than two hundred specialties. so you can find the right doctor or dentist and book instantly Taking care of your health just got easier, download the ZockDoc app today and book that appointment on your to do list. That's ZOC DOC. Introducing the tootal Solutions advantage only from Comcast Business. It's the largest fastest fiber powered network for small business, gig speeds with equipment and security included, and a five year price lock No one does business like comcast business Switch today. Get started for sixty dollars a month for twelve months when you add an advanced solution to a qualifying internet package. Limited time offer. restestrictions apply. newew customers only. requires three hundred megab per second internet, secity edge and additional qualifying service, one year agreement, paperless billing and autoay bank account required. tax and fees extra Patrick before we get to our conversation about Cape Var You want to let people know where they can find more of your work on the internet this week? Yeah, if you follow video games, you can hear me talking more about my time over at Summer Game Fest, the big showcase out in California. I was out there playing games, talking to people. listened to me having more reflections on that, including a two part diary series I did about the games I played and the people I talked to over at remapradio. com or wherever podcasts are available, also what appears to be the ongoing collapse of Xbox more depressing news to talk about this week. there. That's weird because I just thought I just heard there was a big Xbox reset And that everything is going great from this show It's like recent like a breaker box. like you turn off and then like, oh no, we got to get an electrician to turn it back on sort of. It's much it's unfortunately we're daging than that. It turns out just announcing new gears of war isn't going to necessarily fix all your problems But Otherwise, I have Crosspllay, which is my newsletter about parenting and gaming and technology. And this week Apple announced some really good new parental controls for parents. so if you want Understand what will be coming in the next software update in the early fall that makes using your kids Apple devices a little bit easier to manage. Check that out at crosspllay. Ns And just a reminder that next week on the podcast will be doing House of the Dragon as our show of the week with Dark Matter season one episode one as the kickoff of the rewatch that we' be covering this summer. Patrick, let's get to our conversation about Apple TVscape fee Peter Katie was released from prison What does that have to do with us? He's been locked up for seventeen years for a murder he didn't do Viewer's lawyer, right I had a good life once too. Are you afraid of me How would' I be afraid of you Welcome to deceoding TV's coverage of Cape Fear on Apple TV Based off the novel, the executioners and both films of the same name Nick and Toska's version Cpe Fear comes to Apple TV with a few significant changes on the story. This time, Anna Bodden, played by Amy Adams And Tom Boden, played by Patrick Wilson are a power couple who seemingly have everything A lovely house and a nice family in Sannah, Georgia Tom and Anna are both attorneys and Anna works for the Savannah Justice League proroject which helps to release innocent people from prison who have been convicted of crimes. But their peace is soon shattered when Javier Bardim playing Max Katady is released from prison after serving seventeen years for the murder of his pregnant wife Turns out. Maybe he didn't actually do it Because somebody confessed to the crime Max's mistress Anna represented Max during trial and convinced him to plead guilty But shortly after trial, Anna got together with Tom casting doubt on what her true motivations during the trial actually were Is Max trying to destroy Amma's life now that he's been freed from jail? And what is the nature of Max's guilt anyway? These are some of the new questions that the show asks. There are going to be ten episodes of Cape Fear Patrick has watched two episodes I've watched three. We will not spoil anything from future episodes But I will spoil things through episode three of the show. I will also reveal some things from the Martin Scorsese version of the film I won't talk about like the ending or stuff, but I will make some comparisons. So I just want to let you know where we are All that said, Patro Klepic, what'd you think of the first couple episodes of Cape Fear I don't know how I feel about this show. I want to introduce something called pererhaps the presumed innocent les. Okay there's something called the Mendoza line in baseball, which is a shorthand for like minimum viability to be like a contributor U and Presume innocent U orr it proves innocent or innocence, in innocent. is essentially a show that is trashy plot holes U but it was just deliciously fun. like just W, just a fun little meal to chew up and' and I love recommending that show to people Butel like there's many places the show is sort of dumb as rocks. But it's so much fun and it's so well shot and so well acted that the whirlwind of going through it was worth the ride and Id recommend it to other folks. E if the ending gets l little wonk. Caate Fear seems to be operating in a similar sort of which is like it's immacurately shot. The budget looks enormous. We've got a suite of wonderful actors who are still there are doing some Damn acting in definitely acting a lot, you know, defeinitely acting a lot. But to what end and in service of what is a question that is not answered for me in two episodes. I'll be curious to hear from you and whether you feel that's any better answered in a third episode It has An extremely campy feel Yet is played completely dead pan, extremely serious. Um, You're sort of convinced at the start that, oh Maybe the like the title card, which is super campy straight out of the eighties, which it's delightful. I love it every single time it comes up Is that the vibe we' is that the vbe we're going for? And sometimes the show is. sometometimes like, oh I guess we're leaning into this being a little cheesy and campy And other times no, we're playing this completely straight The tones of this show are all over the place. It frequently does not feel like the actors are acting in the same show. feel like they're all given different notes on what the tone is and how O the top we're going to be So peed. I've watched two and My wife's into it and she wants to keep watching. So I'll probably keep going down the Kate fear path. I didn't think you would keep going on this one. So maybe maybe we do this episode. Yeah If it was just me, I think I'd probably be content with getting off the Cape Fear track, but my my again, I think I think my wife is very taken by the Capital A acting happening in the show and Again, like, you know, we as a family spend time occasionally in Hiltonhead, which is just down the street from Savannah, Georgia. We're going to be in Sanah in a couple of weeks. So I have an affinity for for the place. So there's a little bit kind of all going on there that would compel us specifically to keep watching. If it was just me though, David, I'm pretty sure this is where Id get off with Kate Far because I don't think it makes a particly convincing argument in its opening episodes for how this possibly justifies ten episodes of Yeah. Yeah Like I could imagine a Kate Fear movie, which is what they did before. I haven't seen those films. you know where this story goes But there's nothing in the two episodes to suggest There's going to be enough extra added that does not feel like complete fluff Um to get this story across the finish line over ten episodes, but Im it sounds like you're in a similar boat with me, if not more negative, but I'm curious to hear What you make of Kate Ver having seen one more episode than I have I think, you know, you know how like sometimes as time goes on, like it feels like couples, like people who are married, they look physically more like each other. I feel like the more you and I podcast together, the more like sympatico we get on our viewpoints. because I think I completely agree with you. Here's the thing. I've seen the Martin Scorsesee version of Ker. I have not seen the Robert Mitcham one And nor have I read the Executioner as the book on which the movie was based But the big question for me is knew did this show have to add? Like did this show have a compelling reason to exist or is it just telling the same story again, but for like a modern era. I mean, it's been what? thirty years since the last Cpe Far movie came out. was for a story that like That is a reasonable amount of time. Reasonable. toally like revisit a story, even if it doesn't even have that much more to correct. cororrect And I will say that as I reatched Martin Scorses's Cpeer recently, it did seem to me as though some of those relationships were pretty underdeveloped Mhm. Uh, like As an example, they have their marriage is kind of on the rocks in the movie. but it feels like very, very sudden and abrupt the way some of those things happen in the movie. And the relationship with the daughter is not well developed at all. And so I'm like, oh, okay, like you have some time to kind of develop some of these relationships a little bit more. And I do think that is one thing that this show does add but doesn't have anything else beyond that. It is hard for me to come up with it honestly. And I think that Um, There are a few ways that this show does things differently than the movie that I want to get into momentarily Uh But I will say that One of the things that was really terrifying about The original Kape Far movie, sorry, not the original Kape Far movie, the Scsee Kapeear movie is The idea is like Max Katie is terrorizing his family. But everything he's doing is within the bounds of the law, right? Like he he's going right up to the border of their property and just chilling there and like sitting there and they're like, you know, police and, you know, there's a guy sitting on the edge of my party. Sorry, we can't do anything. He's he's not on your property, right? Like he like he's spent his time in prison like reading up about the law And u figuring out how torment this family in the most effective way possible and So far, this movie doesn't this show doesn't even hint at any of that as far as I can tell. Like I have my suspicion is I don't again, I do not know what happens in the book, the two adaptations. I have not seen be on the two episodes My suspicion is there must be a subversion of the expectation of how this story is going to play out this in this adaptation that is building upon the fact that it is a You know, there's a legacy of this story being told and that one way you could go about what's an interesting is like, well, if you've seen previous versions, you think this is how the story is going to go But actually it ends up going in a different direction and truly embracing being you know, an adaptation, a retelling, a reinterpretation. Maybe that's not what actually happens. It's just an elongated version of right the story already being told. But I think It's The fact that it hasn't pinned any of those details down early in the show feels like because the show doesn't want to play its cards, but I needed to play more of its cards. so I just know what kind of show I'm watching. and to be, you know, these are full hour long episodes, rightight? So it's like you're you're watching almost a movie length, you know, you know, every single time And I still feel like they're sketching out the boundaries of what we're playing with in a way that 's not satisfying. It feels more like you're just purposely not telling me information that ' let me press on that a little bit, Patrick. Sine, isn't the story of this guy coming back from the past and tormenting Amy Adams and her family? like that's that alone is not enough to keep you going, right? Like there are like mysteries of what exactly he did and what exactly happened at trial and what exactly Anaboded it, right? Like there's all these mysteries that will be answered through the course of the show, presumably, but like J just that basic story like because that is told, that is told of like Javier Bardum is back. He's he's messing things up. maybe , you know that's the thing that's the maybe part. Like I don't really I think it's much it's played much more ambiguous in this in this r again I'ven' seen the pre Yeahah, you know, So let's get to it. let's get to. I will tell you. that in the show the Apple TV show, it is in fact much more ambiguous as to whether Max Katady actually did a budget. Right. Like In the movie, there is no doubt that he did the crime for which he was convicted And there is no doubt that he is the one that's tormenting of him here. U There is lots of doubt on both of those things Right And so it's like, okay, that could be interesting. Now I will tell you, Petroclepic If those are just like head fake red herrings that turn out to be nothing. That's going to be really disappointing, and I feel like that is a colossal waste of time R? And That's my worry. that like like that's why my hope is there's a commitment to doing us a version or a different version why whyy is it important to you that it's different if you haven't seen the original? Do you just feel like you just don't like being jerked around with a story like this? Yes, because because as a first time, like maybe it'll be more interesting if you've never You're not familiar with the story. And so the kind of will they or won't they of the story the elongation of that can be more interesting to you. But for me, I want the story to just get along. I just get on with it, please. Well but also is that alongside just Incredible goofiness, please stop showing me the glitchy TV likeike feed stuff. That's not based in reality. Like whatever explanation they come up for that I'm going to laugh at. That is the most like magic wand Yeah TV bullshit like' every time like Why is the security camera getting a little glitch That's not how hacking works Like the security system isn't going like, attack. Like how? is I like screaming like it's the you don handhe show We don't you don't know that. Maybe Bax Katie became a computer genius. when he was away for seventeen years and he just figured out how to hack into things, you know, But like make it look just a little weird as like it does in the show. Makes it look like it's coming out of a like it looks like haunted. looks like this should be in a supernatural story more than it should be in in something. I can buy that he taught himself how to program like doing securities like that makes sense to me. Sent his time in, you know, in the academic minds behind bars. but the idea there' like What It's just it's goofy T enough Is there anything else along those lines that you find goofy in the show, by the way H's here's I'll say one thing that I find sohat mooofy U first of all, I know people that work in organizations like the Savannah Justice League proroject that are in the show And this show makes it seem a lot more glamorous than it is in real life. L L the idea is that they put together this big gala to raise money and maybe that stuff, maybe that kind of stuff happens in real life, but it is a They like It is a thankless task that these people are doing, they're often going It is Very unwelcome things that these people are doing, right? Like They are basically saying to an entire system, hey, you got this wrong And there's a whole institutional edifice that is meant to stop people from doing that to be like Oh, we convicted the wrong person, like that's impossible, right? Because if people don't believe the system works, then horrible things will happen. So so This show hasn't really shown that side of that job yet and it's more about Hey we're celebrating the people who got out and we're having galls of millionaires and stuff like that And u and getting profiled in the Savanah Times and so and over that it's just like, I don't I don't know that's a particular realistic depiction of it. butbe maybe it is. I don't you know, if you work for or know one of these people, comments, let us know decoding tV at gmail d. com. Is this an accurate depiction of working for one of those things? That is a whole new component of the show, by the way. L in the Cape Far movie, they didn't do that at all. It was Also, by the way Uh, the male person in the relationship that scoot over Mc Katie. It was a Nick Nolultt's character that scooted over Mcs Katie but Yeah. alsoso by the way, in the movie, I think it was just they only had one daughter, if I recall correctly And here they have two kids and They are both kind of messed up in different ways R? The son has some really severe behavioral issues and the daughter is feeling invisible because all the attention is focused on the sun, which is a very common dynamic as far as I understand. Patrick Klek, this is, again, like I said, a fairly new dynamic in this show that wasn't in the films How did you think about the familial dynamics in the TV show Cpeer work that works much better. I think the two actors are I've not seen them in anything as far as I can tell, but I think They sell the relationship pretty well and it's like, much more interesting than like what did mom and dad get up to? What dark secret are they hiding? Like I buy their complicated relationship much more than I kind of buy a lot of other playing very naturalistic. Whereas like, especially like Havier Bart like H is playing like like it just it's like such an over the top It's in line with the music, like the cQ music for the title card. That's the movie that he's in I get it. I the big like strings like he is playing a campy over the top character and like I I buy it completely and he's a lot of fun. to watch. So the siblings work well for me actually. I don't mind their plot line and the dynamics that that are playing out between the two of them. The problem I have is this show every thirty seconds wants to play a a secure Font door open back back floodlight on. and you want to tell me this is not a spoiler, but like there's a moment where the sun they're concerned about his well being He just goes out the front door and starts walking away. You're telling me this security system. M maybe or Javier hacked into it.'s like when he goes out the front door, it's not going to make a noise. It's not gonna to make a security system noise when he leaves out the front door, even though the show keeps telling us that it's gonna make noises announcing everything that happens around this house Fair enough Uh But Yeah, I would say it works really well and it sounds like you are already bored of the what did they do? Did they did they do the thing? You know, like this is already boring to you even though you're only two episodes into the show. Well I think it's part of it because I just have a better sense of the dynamics of play between the brother and sister than I do with like parents and like there's just iss just easier to grasp onto. Like any the show doesn't Okay job of depicting like what it means to get sucked in online, like to have a completely different online life that Your parents don't understand. they have no insight into You can have a whole different you know, the, you know, there's a bit where she, you know, Aamy Adams, you know, tricks her son into you know, unlocking the face ID on her phone. that that was pretty clever. I actually think You know, we'll see where it goes, but I do think the show's depiction of U, a kid struggling you know, and you know, I don't want to get into There's a there's part there's a reason he is sort of socially ostracized in the show that is When you find out what it is, like, well I mean, yeah, you deserve to be socially ostracized for that and but that makes her a really unique sort of relationship that you have as an audience member where kid who has like Perhaps like, you, drug addiction issues, behavioral issues Um sort of like helicoptery parents and then when it's revealed why? Like he sort of ostracized socially or're like, oh. Yeah, that's bad. dude, like you shouldn't have done it's just he's an interesting character. I think his depiction of trying to show what it means to sort of be ostracized in real life and then lose yourself online And then having a very caring sister doing the best that she can to at least be there for him in a way that is His parents can't kind of I'm not saying that parents in this show are role models, but it is the case that No matter how good your parents are, like a sibling may have access to another sibling in a way that parents, no matter how good they are just cannot relate to you on. And so I think finding All of that is working much more for me. And frankly, if that wasn't there, I think I'd probably a little more frustrated with the show than than I am now Fair enough I want to point out by the way that I believe it's Bernard Hermann's score that is being used and it's the same score that was used in the Martin Scorsesee film as well. and now is being used in the Apple TV. It's amazing, but also it does not bestow confidence that you're trying to do something new with the story when you use the same score that has been used two other times the. It It's so good though. everyvery time it hits I'm like we used to be a country. used to We used this used to be common. You would watch a movie, the title car would hit and there'd be some ' incredibly cool little diddy that the playays that That's such a fun tone for what you're about to watch. and I think it feels mostly like someone was like, No, that's cool. Like we'll keep it even though it doesn't feel like it matches the show that I'm watching. It's like how they use the Game of Thrones theme song for House of the Dragon two. They're like, it's already we already have a good theme song. We don't need any. One of the new interesting dynamics in this Cpe fear is that Max Katie and Anna Boden are their lives are much more intertwined in this version because Reasons that honestly ped my understanding, the head of the Savannah Justice League P project played by CCH Pounder says, hey, this Max Katie guy, this guy that probably hates you for whatever set of reasons because you didn't get him out of jail or didn't even try or whatever he's useful to our cause. So let me just put these two characters together as often as I human humanly can and expect nothing bad to happen from that But That's the kind of stuff that I think kind of strains my credulity a little bit of like Really, however to its credit That is a dynamic that is completely absent in the Martin Scrorsesee movie of like, M. Maxcie iss like involved in like the business and like theoretically helping. I'm like, wa, like in the I think it's the first episode, he shows up and he helps them raise a bunch of money at this big gal and he's like, wow, like that's That's kind of interesting because that never happened in the Martin Scorsesee version where Oh it's it turns out it's like more complicated. likeike The Scorsesee version of Kapeer depicts Robert De Niro asax Katie. as this kind of almost supernatural force that's just coming for this family and like about to destroy them. He's like a storm that is going to completely envelop everything and and you will not be able to see a way out of, right And this version of Axkie is much more complicated. It's like, oh, he's actually kind of helping They actually Amy Adams character actually might have like something' in common with this guy or he might be like the sn might be like really into him for whatever reason. you know, like it's just like really complicated And then of course, there's all that stuff we said about Whether Max Katie actually did the crime, which Do I mean, do you have an opinion on whether it's going be revealed that Mexico actually did the crime Because I will say in the What do you call it? in the Martin Scrorsese film, there is no doubt. likeike Max Scatie definitely did the crime. Whereas here, I'm three episodes in and It is plausible that the show will make it so that Max Katie didn't do anything And if that's true, I would then say, okay Capping it's here Bravo show. Bravo like, okay, cool. like you actually had a new take on this. That's interesting What is your opinion on whether Max Katady did both the either the original crime or any of the horrible things that have been happening to this family since I I wish the I wish I could say I believe the show would have the courage of his convinions to commit to the subversive version of it because that would make The most interesting version of the show, which is the tweak to Amy Adams character in which you are fighting on in theory fighting on the behalf of folks who are being committed to grave injustice by the justice system. What if? you were complicit in that. you know, now obviously there's this whole secret that's dropped that I don't know about, But take it on face value, right like that. Yeah. You submit you like your life's work was built around putting people in jail or removing them from jail. What if you were forced to confront the the duality, like The fact that like one version of your life You made the wrong decision may have made it with the best of intentions of in mind, like the justice system isn't Perfect even the best possible scenarios. but The fact someone having to reckon with I did that to a person and how do I work towards forgiveness or like I don't know. like that could be an interesting show because then it of course she's going to cast all sorts of susp and darken light on any actions or interactions she has with him and Well, as a result of his time in the incurcerable state, of course, he's like hardened and kind of fucked up L it it's not a system really built to rehabilitate in the way that pitch. So how do you How do you inter There's this version of that show that sounds ally interesting. I'm not confident. It's that It's that show. and I feel much more inclin that it's going to be. ultimately, he still did it. She's good but I think two things gonna be true. He did it and her suspicions over But he didn't do all the ancillary stuff. But she thinks he's done all the ancillary. R. But that There's actually been other factors at work, perhaps individuals that are taking advantage of the situation, the dynamics to you know, make make something happen. There's Yeah a mysterious woman in green, right? that we find out who that is in episode three're going to talk about a little bit. Okay. But I think that's a great point. I will say that There is an action scene at the beginning of episode two that Pornographic You know, like, you know what I'm talking about when he Yeah, the show doesn't justify its level of violence. And I And and does it in such a kind of king and sensationalistic way that makes me take the show less seriously. Like is the show trying to say make a deep statement about the nature because it' That scene, in my opinion is meant to rev you up It's like, oh, like, yeah, we want to watch Max Katie like these guys de, you know, Now maybe the show will subvert that later on, right? But I think like When when I saw the flashback to Mexico in prison and he like beats those guys to them like I was really disappointed because