Abduction and Plot Mechanics

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At ArAMco, we believe in harnessing the power of data to push the limits of what's possible. That's how we deliver reliable energy to millions across the world. ArAamco, an integrated energy and chemicals company. Learn more about us at arramco dot com Better helpelp add. Hold on. One second I just need to What if you had a room where no one interrupts No notifications, no expectations J just space to talk. Better Help, Thraapy happens in a space that's yours. Visit betteretter hLp dot com slash raandom podcast for ten percent off your first month of online therapy Hello everyone and welcome to Deoding TV, a podcast about television I'm David Chen, joining me as usual Patrick Kleepk, Patrick This is an episode of the podcast that I'm gonna say is one of our rare episodes that's recorded under duress. because literally I those ends. Like thirty six hours ago, I was in Portugal I woke up at twelve AM Pacific time uh and flew, you know, took the whole journey back home and then and slept for like four hours and then I woke up. and at at Denny's because I wanted to experience what an American meal was like for the first time I like freedom that's what freedom tastes like And now I'm here recording. And then after we record, you're going to take a flight to Boston. And this is the only window we could find where we were both available to record So if if I sound a little ragged today, that's why I'm so jet lagged, you know, I've been up since like to three thirty AM And yeah, that said, we do have a great show for you today, folks. It's a little bit of bridge, but we're going to talk about our show of the weeek this week, which is House of the Dragon And we are going to kick off our coverage of dark matter on Apple TV We are going to be watching and recapping and reviewing every episode of Dark Matter. u weekly between now and the premiere of season two in August of twenty twenty six. So the next couple months is going to be every week, there's going to be a Dark Matter recap. You can start, join us, be part of the Dark Matter Club. by watching you can matter too. You can matter Dark M byy watching Dark Matter on novel TV season one, episode one is this week. season one episode two is next week and so on all the way to season two Premiere at the end of August And so we hope you'll join us again Dozens of people wrote and said they want to do this So and the thing is we've never done this before. so like I'm really curious what the reaction will be, but we'll talk about it. What's the rare show where there are other shows like you and I were both regret not being caught up on for all mankind and we talked about we talked about long enough that we could have found a solution, but instead just talked about a potential solution to catching up with that show. But the beauty of Dark Matter is there's just one season. so we can as a group, go through the first season, jump on the second season whereas like for all mankind was like, well, how do we get through four seasons and then jump on the news? It's just harder to do. So this is harder with so little clean. Yeah. And I will say like I loved the first season of Dark Matter But it was pretty closely based off of the book by Blake Crouch who was also showrunner of the series And as far as I know, like the second season is not based off of a book. I don't think. I may not be aware of it. I might My understanding was they the source material is the first season. Yeah then So I am actually very nervous about Dark Matter things to do. This could be what kills the decoding TV podcast is Covering Dark Matter rewatch and then Dark Matter season two, the season is terrible because there's no book to base it on He, David. this cored could be the of the show. We covered secret invasion Indeed. Okaykay. anyway. also next week, our show of the week is going to be the Bear We're going to get through as many episodes as we can of the Bear and deliver an episode to you. Patrick and I are still working out exactly what the best date or day of the week we're going to record is. so Stay tuned as we kind of get through this time period where like I've just gotten back to the United States and my schedule' still adjusting But yeah, we should be able to get like a more stable schedule moving forward, but you should expect a new episode of Deoding TV sometime next week where we're going to cover the bear and season one episode two. of dark matter So all that said, Patrick, let's get to our show of the week this week House of therag It's the show of the week It's the show moie Yeah. Welcome to decoding TVs coverage of House of the Dragon So it's season three of House of the Dragon Patroleic and I do want to start by saying, of course, We're not going to be covering the show week to week, but you know what is going to be covering the show week to week A cast of Kings' podcast, which is a decoding TV podcast Be sure to listen to a cast of Kings every week for a detailed breakdown. of what is going on with the show with Jesse Earl and Kim Renfrther doing a wonderful job. in my absence But Nonetheless, despite the fact that we're not covering it here each week on D deccoming TV Uh, it is Probably the biggest show on television right now, right? And so and I want to hear Patrick Klek's opinion on it So Patrick, let's start with your thoughts. What did you think of The return of House of the Dragon Season three I mean, I know you called it season three, but I think it's really unique and HBO did this structure where they did three fourth of the second season and said You know what needs more time to cook in the VFX oven and then made you wait two years to get the end of season two. and then get to season three. I mean, I arguably arguably they gave us eight ninths of a season. in season two of House of the Dragon, right. And then this is the ninth ninth of us What is? you know, I've seen like, hey, this is season three point five or season five point five What is it what is it called when it's eight ninths of a season and then the final episode is given to you as the premiere of the next season. I mean, we just except like it has been reported out that the previous season was supposed to be longer include this giant sea battle And when you get to the end of this episode All you can really think to yourself. I know I know about this online. My wife, a normal person, does not know about these things and so it hits very differently. But I could not help but watch this episode and get to the end to go Damn that would have in a way manned this is That said. it like it would have would have changed The whole feeling of season two, I think I think I think some of the sour comvers. I was higher in season two than others, but I understood the The angs and especially if you understood the events of the story and what was being left out. clearly from where everything was building towards in season two. So I was less upset about it over than others. I'm not familiar with the story beats, but I understood where the criticisms are coming from and I fully understand where that's coming from having watched the premiere of season three That said. It's rare to get something this fucking bombastic as the opener to a season because it has the energy and the production and the budget and the energy. of a finale, which is kind of a weird energy because there's Usually with like a new season like H to put on her clothes, like see how they fit, you know, it's sort of get back with these characters and it's like, no kill some motherfuckers. right away at the end and let's have the most expensive show you have ever seen I had a great time. Again, I have been broadly higher on this show than it feels like some of the online discourse talks about this show. I'm not saying it hits the highs of Game of Thrones. I'm with everybody else in that I am frequently secretly referencing a wiki being like who? Yeah who character again. but I really like the show. I like the two core like female leads. I find everything about them really interesting. I think we're This opening episode leaves those two core leads is like really fucking interesting places. So I am Owhelmed and I actually tire of the Dragons in this show. I know the House of the Dragons, but the thing that I like a lot of people love the most about this show or this universe in which Game Thrones had a better mixture of the bombast and the quiet U night in seeven Kingdoms is all quiet and then like a little bit of bombass And this one it just feels like it's at eleven all the time, but U, I still L this universe, this dynamics, these characters and I am Everyone is left at the end of this episode in just the worst possible like I had cards to play. What What cards? What cards? And the level of doom and ominous feelings That is left on on the viewer at the end of the first episode has me really excited to see what happens next. So I thoroughly enjoyed The first episode of this new season. How about you I think it's also a great time It cannot be understated This is probably one of the most technically accomplished shows on television right now, right? And just The ion value, the ambition, the scope of it, the scale of it it's I struggle to come up with anything that matches House of the Dragon in terms of what they're doing. Even the other Game of Thrones show, like not even close, right? now the seeven Kingdoms much smaller scale. This is is a movie. this is like a if you just put this in a movie theater like, you know, obviously narratively it'd be goofy, but like it has the spectacle and budget of a full fledged movie crammed into an hour plus episode of television. It's truly wild Yeah, u So I had a great time with the episode. I think that As somebody who has hosted Castter Kings with extxtremely talented podcasters and commentators. and Even recently, like a couple months ago, I said the kid hey, said to Kim Ren for, Hey, let's do like some bon episodes, like Let's like recap where we are in the story, like get people back in the mood. And I was sitting there when Kim Renfro explained, Hey, here's where the pieces are on the chessboard, so forth And that was not very long ago You know, that was like you could measure it months ago And I still really struggled to keep up with Who is who and who's attacking who and what's happening O names. I'm hard. I'm tough with names I write down some of my neighbor's names if I don't see them with frequency. likeike the ones I see day to day week to week. I know all your names. So we're talking months. I have an Apple note that is like that house, that kid, those are the names of the parents because I just can't keep that stuff together. So you can imagine how I feel watching this show, which has many characters who are hard to keep track of who they are and what they do. and then also the name like the naming scheme in this show is such that it's just exxceptionally difficult to track. Well, I think that This is the this is the double edged sword when you're adapting a fully formed universe, right Is that George R R. Martin Obviously genius fantasy writer and has created all these amazing stories And if you want to adapt them You have to try to be as faithful as possible, although obviously There have been there has been a great deal of controversy behind the scenes and cl reported clashes between Chuverurn and O Ryan Condle and George R Martin and so forth Uh But you need to be as faithful as possible And the problem is that George R. Martin made the names Virtually incomprehensible right? So there's an Aund, there's an Aund, there's an Eric, there's an Eric, there's, you know, like Rhaenyra, Renna. all the names like sound extremely similar. T think they're supposed to be, I think like part of the culture is like there's a homogeneous nature to it. So I understand Yeah, yeah, it's not like unmotivated by the story or it is probably wasi your page when you can see it framebsolutely that it's easier to track that stuff. No do not watch do you not watch with close captions Patro Clopppic depends on if We're watching downstairs where our projector and a better sound system is where I can like crank up the volume? No. If we're watching upstairs where we're being mindful about kids, then yes I generally watch this closed capapt just because of what we do here on decoding TV. It makes it easier to take notes and stuff like that, but Yeah, with closed captions, it definitely helps with the naming and understanding if it was an amun or an Aun. I might have to start doing that with this show specifically that they said But but it also reinforces Patrick. If somebody was like writing this show from scratch They would probably not structure the names this way. You know what I'm saying? Like I just don't I think they would structure them. likeike I've seen movies where you don't cast somebody who look similar to another character because you don't want them get confused, right by the viewer. And so like there's all these things that you would do in a normal quote unquote normal production of a TV show that You wouldn't do, but then you don't have access to George R. Martin's amazing stories if you do it that way, right? So Uh it's the price you pay. You got to sometimes be confused. Anyway, the point I was making is that This really feels like it picked up. right in the middle of a story. Like it really feels like There is zero handholding, right? There's zero like, hey, like let's or not zero, but like very little of, hey, let's get you up to speed on like all the stuff that happened other than the previously on, right?ike? Within the text of the show itself is very little of like that. They just assume you know what's going because they have no time. They have no time. So much stuff is going on. they have no time for it. Um But putting that aside, putting aside like the kind of trappings of watching the show I do think that Some of the themes of the show still come through really well, right? U those I'll just name a couple of the themes, right? One of them is The place of women in this society and how they are constantly underestimated and repudiated and ignored despite the fact that they often have more wisdom or have a better way of proceeding than the men in these stories. Or no less weaknesses than the men.bs. They're all flawed in very similar ways that it gets exaggerated by perceptions of gender Absolutely, absolutely And Another thing that I think you know was really interesting too is about how power is wielded during these times and like T how like things In this situation that they're in, which is a period of time, I believe, is called the Dance of Dragons, right? Very eventful time in West Wast history Uh Things have a momentum of their own There's this incredible scene at the end of last season of House of the Dragon where uh Allicent or sorry, Rhenyra goes and visits Allicent and it's a very like transgressive thing that she's doing and she tries to explain like, hey, You were wrong about the proet. like there's no reason for us to be all fighting. likeike that's not what Viserus meant. And Allison says like honestly, like on some level, it doesn't really matter because We can't stop at any like once things have gone There is a momentum Things have a momentum of their own to quote a Sprano's character. and Uh I'm just going to say it's possible we are seeing something like that play out in our world right now. Mhm And so I think there's a lot that this show has to chair thematically uh with The real world that we live in, there's a lot that's resonant And that continues through this episode of the seeason three premiere, and I assume we'll continue through to season three in its entirety But pacing wise Pretty rough. much just be like inserted just dramatically into the situation as we are in this episode. It It feels like a consequence of like the executive meddling where they were stuck between a rock and a hard place and how you would do that sort of setup. My guess is this strike Well there was also the writer strike this actually writer lot of lots of things. My guess is this feels way less Strange Like if you're revisit, if you're watching this show as we are waiting two years between seasons, season foriere, season finales. If you come to this like when the show is over, my guess is it feels way less strange where you can just seamlessly It won't feel like you're going to season three. You can feel like a icon on the HBO Max app and you're good to go. right If if you're watching this in retrospect. Watch that quietly rename that like season two episode nine andactly. I wanted to close to close loop on what I was saying earlier, you know, I had Kim like summarize like where we are in the bonus episodes of Cast of Kings And then that was extremely useful. And then I watched the episode. I'm like, I need to go and watch more recaps of it. So I like I went and like watched like two, forty minute recaps of like the first two seasons of Fast of Dragon and I'm like, okay, now I think I understand where we are, but it is I don't, you know, it it's It's Mattmith doing all season. Yeah. what was he What was what was the point of that? Did they think get him in a new wig yet? Who's loyal to who Let's talk about some of the stuff that actually happened So several big plot lines actually converge this episode If you'll recall, Allison betrayed her family last season and offered to give up Aemon and let Rhaenyra take the throne so long as she let some of her loved ones live But that plan goes extremely poorly early on in the episode when she realizes that Laris and Aegon have fled for their lives. Oops That's that's another thing that is, you know, that's I think that's one of the themes this episode right is Plans going extremely wrong, right?'s like people have plans. And they all go horribly wrong. Go ahead, Pet say? Well not just plans, but this is something that I u annoyed me as Game of Thrones went on, where early Game of Thrones it felt like you had a sense of scale with Westeros and the distance between and like there was travel time characters do when they say they're going to the big city. It's you feel some of that movement in the storytelling That was lost by the end of Game of Thrones. likeike we're just we're just abute on the march and then cut to twenty minutes later in the episode. They've arrived. That was weeks, months, but the show acts as though It was overnight And here in the storytelling Despite the fact that we're in a high fantasy setting, they have access to dragons, Some of the problems here are like the cell phone problem. right? Like if you could just get a text to somebody, right? This stuff doesn't like the Ravens are smart But they're not fast. The dragons are big and the dragons are an airplane But then you're showing up with a nuke. And so like the dress of the dragon like what what the dragon conveys when it shows up is not I have a note to quietly pass on to Allison U And so so much of what goes wrong here are like You could not call them best laid plans, but they are plans that go along that are exaggerated by an inability to just pass on communication to other people because of distance, geography and the fastest forms of communication, the dragons look like. And I appreciate that the show baking in some of those things. you still get hey, get your fastest horse. So there's like little cheats but they don't feel like cheats because I think The show is sitting with the the gaps in geography in a way that feel natural in the storytelling. And I did appreciate that being one of the reasons So was you know, how do you solve the cell phone problem? You just got to set your stories in high fantasy settings and just take all that stuff out. Yeah, yeah. or put a different way If Westeros had SMS technology. hundredundreds of thousands of people would have lived that didn't live, right? Like this is know, this is why Verizon saves lives. I keep telling people all the time. No one, but they they just say to me, sir, this is a Denny's. then I'm like, what's happen? Uh okay What else happens in the episode? So Laris and Egg on to Fight for their lives, by the way, I really ennjoyed that scene with Laris and Egon because Agon, not a not an ideal hostage You know what I'm saying? Now How just deal with it. I was like there's like this such fine line between him wanting to say J just shut up. like just just shut up. But he has to wrap in a little bit of like high fallutin prose. like ah. The sun will be brighter in the days ahead. But there's a tone of stop being a baby. it that is very good. Well, I just like that these guys the Rhaenyra's men, I believe, discover them, right? you know, they say, okay, well, hey,, all you have to do is swear allegiance to the the quQeen and You're good to go, you know, and he obviously didnid't I understand it's within character for him not to want to do that, but it's just like It's such a simple thing it's like it's a completely perfunctory thing can do it. And you know Man versus self, right peopleeople are undone by their own pride sometimes Uh, but Great scene. Anyway Meanwhile, the Triarchy attacks the Valyriian fleet with Lohar wanting revenge on Corlus, The Targaryian children all try to help But sadly, it goes pretty poorly as well. When Rinna arrives on Sheep stealer The dragon just starts indiscriminately attacking everyone And when Jason and Bala fly their dragons to help Corlus. Jace's dragon Vermax is drowned and Jace himself is eventually killed. So I mean, the battle sequence was Absolutely incredible.ne thing I want to give a shout out to is U The Dragon wriding, I think this is the best it has ever looked Like in previous seasons, sometimes sometimes the Game of Thrones it can look very wonky. It can look very like Oh, this is a person on a green screen with like a mechanical dragon And this looks Very good. It looks very respectable they're depicting these people on the dragons. Patrick, do you agree? What do you think? Yes. And it was so much fun. like Sheep Stealer, I feel like is going to has a chance to steal the season in terms of the dragons. Mostly because it has a personality, right? Like so many of the dragons are just there to be weapons of war and right there's just not enough time you spend with them to feel Like you have a sense of. who they are and Cap Sealer is just so interesting because If it's way more in line with what you would expect probably expect from like Okay, I know in this universe like they got this language they can speak and they can jar us, but It always feels a little bit like there should be a little more randomness. Like Th these are animals like at the end of the day and the idea that they can be so subdued and controlled feels a little I've just never fully bought it as part of the universe, at least as it's been depicted cinematically. And so Sheep Sealer is so much fun because Oh He's just he's scared and excited and doesn't know what to do and is going to make Mistake's blowing fire on the good guys and the bad guysy. It's just such a fun character to have roaming around that I am sure the arc of this is Rider and Dragon becoming more in sync, but I hope they keep a little bit of randomness with the character because it's been really endearing and interesting, but I'm also with you that Uh The nature of the spectacle means you can never not look at it and understand you're looking at a visual effect because because dragons don't exist in real life. Right. And it's just we're just not in a world we're going to spend the time and effort to do it in any sort of meaningful practical sense. prractical robot dragon, right? Right. This is not going to happen. But If that's the route we're going to take, this is the best that it's ever looked where More often than not, I was able to sit with the scene and not be distracted by the distance between what they were trying to convey and what they were able to convey with the effects, the time. And maybe that's an a, you know a knock on effect of a time in between seasons and getting more time with thees. I don't know Whatever the case may be, I'm with you that It helps sell the storytelling because you're not. this show spends so much time depicting people on dragons. And I think in the last two seasons, it's not done the most effective job of making that seems seamless. And here, I think we get the closest yet Yeah, spepeaking of Dragons of personality, the other one that comes to mind would be Vermmithor last season. rememember when Rhaenyra brought all those dragon seeds out. She's like, hey, like One of you might be Dragon Rider, I don't know, or something horrible could happen. Oh well, nevertheless. Bring in the next wave, Bring in the next wave, yep U But yeah, I do want to call out like some great hand to hand combat as well with Lohar and Corless and his son Alan, Corless. As far as we know, Corless is still alive Uh, like didn't didn't succumb and I don't be a body. Yeah, show me a by. But There were some just great action sequences with like the two ships crashing to each other. and it like it was a great combination. of practical and CG. just like with the Dragons like the ship, the ship battles and them trying to get through that narrow pass and all that stuff. It just is really, really effectively done and againgain, you know, I just wonder what what would have been like if season two ended like I just think we would have gone out of season two on such a high compared to what season two was, which was Oh, not only was that a big letdown at the end, but also we have to wait two more years until follow up You know what I mean? It just would have been such a different feeling. It be one thing if it was like teeing up the final season. It's like, all right, that makes sense that we're going to leave some of these massive battles for them, but knowing what we knew then, which was there's at least We don't have an end date for the show. Now we do, right? It's like this season and next season and then correct the show issra right. So I think that would have been a different feeling, but I'm with you. I think When I think about the closing shot of this season or this episode, I say this season because that's the point I'm getting at. It's just such a exciting melancholy note to end on that would have had my the wheels in my head turning over where the show is going to go next. And here it's an exciting start to the season, but it's such a strange tonal note Because it's written like a season finale and instead functions as a season opener Well, on that note, right? the big event that happens is Jays gets killed. He locks his mom in the basement Foiled by a door. felt like we could have done just a little bit Really? No other options. the door is stuck. I have to say if u Jase just saying a vague order to the guard And that that can like trap Rhinyer somewhere. You really have to revisit your security situation there. You know like I feel like it is easily penetrable is what I'm trying to say Yes. So she can't like scream out the window. likeike did they send like a group text message to the castle? Like, hey, I know like Rhiy' was going to be screaming and she was supposed to leave, but Like it's cool. Like I got this. The door' locked. You know what I mean? Like it doesn't Yeah, yeah, I don't know if I fully Right? Like it's not that I don't believe that what The show depicted could happen in that situation. It's more that if it could happen, that's actually really disturbing, you know, R. M maybe it is supposed to be disturbing. We'll find what the consequences are later. But I mean are that guy' dying. He was dying when he decided to lock the door And with the events that happened, I don't I don't think things are going to turn out well for the man that chose to guard that door. I mean, that's one of the things that comes through in House of Dragon in general, right is how disposable human life is if you're not one of the protagonists or the main the elite, right? the upper class, the royalty Uh you'll recall like When they hung all the rat catchers last season just to hang the rack catchers over this season at the beginning of the episode when Aymond almost kills that completely innocent dude for no reason. You know what I mean? Stuff like that happens throughout and it's just a reminder of how brutal And short, life could be Nasty Brutitish and short life could be back in the days of House of the Dragon. So but yeah, the big thing, right? They lost the Rhaenyra lost her dragon And also Jace is dead. another Rin near a child passes away. u really appreciated the way in which he was killed like compleomtely you like to think, o Um deaths are epic and huge and it's a big deal. he dies like almost quietly and unceremoniously and kind of shamefully, you know what I mean? Like just in the water kind of helpless. begging for his life and just gets completely owned. byy all these arrows coming in Uh ye, any any thoughts on on the death of Jace Petroclyphic I thought they chose Like two deaths happen in that moment, right?ike his dragon Yeah and Jace himself and Part part of what I think is very impressive about the visual effects in House the Dragon and this episode in particular is U when you have grand grand expensive spectacle Can you generate an emotion out of me that is more than just like awe? and excitement And I think it's a testament to the storytelling, the effects and the melding of the physical and the digital in this show that When I'm watching that dragon like sink into the water, like your heart just breaks. like it's just it's just an animal that is confused and following the behaviors it's been trained to do. it did nothing wrong except what it was asked and It's like itss reward is to drown in the ocean, which sounds painful and awful And so for Jace to then go out with an arrow that You know, it's like soon the first one hits, he's got what ten seconds to process that he's about to die.. It's not even clear that he fully processes what has happened to him. He's probably in shock from the dragon and then just like a light He's gone. And I think that was a fitting way to handle that sort of simultaneous death with the two of them. Absolutely Brutal death. one of the more brutal deaths I can recall. on the show. Yeah. not not like a gory death, but just like brutal in it's the inhumanity that is displayed. You know's's you don't need to tear someone limb from limb Yeah like to feel something and like yeah, there's nothing about that If the arrow had like pierced his eyeball and like blew open his head, there's nothing better about that scene. It's so much better with the Oh it hit him in the neck pierced like a bunch of vessels, like he like he's just going to bleed out right immediately was So much more haunting It's qu yeah, it's so quiet, right? I think u There's this whole thing too of like separate related n. you know, like drowning behavior, arere you familiar with this concept, drowning behavior doesn't look like what people think it looks like, right? Like Yes. There's a famous essay that from a couple of years ago. Right. where people think when you're drowning, you're like waving your hands. Hey, like Hey, look at me, I'm drowning. help me, you know, But really, when you're drowning, you're barely you're struggling to keep over your head above the water. You will not be able to signal people for help. You have no energy to do that. Uh and so I think people assume like, oh, the death of a Rhaenyra's child, it will be and momentous and stuff. And instead it's really Almost a non event, right? The chilling nature is in how much of a non event it is in this Some thoughts onn the season three premiere of House of the Dragon, but Patrick and I both had a great time with it desespite the fact that U we were barely keeping up with what the hell was going on U But still, like there's nothing else like this on television right now and you have to appreciate at addmire just how ambitious this show truly is. So we'll keep watching. Maybe we'll be able to do some crossover the season with Cast Kings. and I hope that will happen and also probablyrobably we'll cover the finale. We'll see where we are at that point in time in a couple of months, but Either way, House of Dragon season three, still one of the best things on TV right now And that has been our showow of the week Better Hel add Hold on. One second. I just need to What if you had a room where no one interrupts No notifications, no expectations. J just space to talk. Better Hel, theraapy happens in a space that's yours. Visit betteretterLp. com slash random podcast for ten percent off your first month of online therapy This episode is sponsored by ZockDoc. Have you been putting off a doctor's appointment or need a dentist and you don't know where to start deffinitely been there and that's why we use ZockDoc Actually over the holidays, Michael had a dental emergency and seemingly every office was closed, but we hopped on to ZockDoc, found an in network dentist, had great reviews, saw real time appointments available, which was key. It was on New Year's Day, and booked an appointment in just minutes. It took so much of the stress out of the already stressful situation ZockDog makes it easy to search and compare over two hundred fifty thousand local in network providers across more than two hundred specialties. so you can find the right doctor or dentist and book instantly Taking care of your health just got easier, download the ZockDoc app today and book that appointment on your to do list. That's ZOC DOC ZockDoc reminder that next week our show the week is going to be the Bear, which has its fifth and final season Premiering on Hulu, all episodes areropping And Patrick Cleppick, I don't know if that's a good idea because we have one piece of TV news talk about this week Again, this is a little bit of an a breached episode I actually think this is a pretty big piece of news, right? And that is the buroughs has been canceled at Netflix. Now I want to just start by reading about some of the human reaction to this. Gina Davis found the perfect role in the boroughs Then Netflix cancellled it. This is a story from the Hollywood Reporter. That's the headline And When she read the script, Gina Davis told the Hollywood Reporter, I was like, this is crazy how perfect this is for me. And then when I met with them and I said that, they said, well, we wrote it with you in mine hoping you would say yes talalking about meeting with the showruners Jeffrey Adison Will Matthews of The Boroughs And of course, the cast also includes Legendary character actors like Alfred Melina Alfred Woodard, Bill Poullman, Dennis O'Hare and Clarark Peters But the show, despite having appeared on Netflix's top ten, being covered positively here on decoding TV, which we all know is a huge factor in whether or not a show is renewed The show has beencellled and according to Gina Davis, the cast wasn't given an explanation Fortunately, she says, the creators who became our dear dear friends were able to tell us before the news came out. and we're all terribly disappoint Honestly, I don't know what happened I think it's probably rare for a show to not get picked up and have itt announced that it's being picked up whileile it's still in the top ten We didn't expect that But the creators told us from the beginning that the series was not going to have a cliffhanger ending to the first season that someone had advised them, makeake it its own thing. And if you come back into another year, make that its own thing. And we really did. There's a tiny hint at the end that maybe everything's not fixed, but it is a complete story And if we had made it as a limited series, that it would have been a big hit and everybody would be happy and So That was the advice she got I feel like Kimie Davis is listening to decoding to me because, we're like banging that drum every week So that's the the kind of human reaction. Like people are very disappointed. People love the show. I like the show. like I enjoyed it. Patrick enjoyed the episodes that he watched. U And Patrick, your first reaction was Hey, maybe this is because the Duffer Brothers are kind of on the outs of Netflix, which is probably true because they have left and go the parament But what's on Netflix? the website has done an analysis of the bureough's ratings and has made a relatively convincing case that the boroughs was not doing well enough to justify a renewal looking just on the looking just based on the numbers So According to this article, which we'll link to in the show notes The burough season one spent four weeks in Netflix's global topop ten amassing one hundred thirty point five million viewing hours and twenty point eight million completed views. End quote, let me just stop there and say That is a staggering number of views. Now, you know Who knows how that breaks down by like Uh like, okay, so there's what? ten episodes of the Bros or six I don't remember how many, but like is it twenty million across those number of views Um, Regardless, one hundred and thirty point five million viewering hours is a lot And one would think very successful They then have a hour is viewed by week of release here in this chart. and I'm just going to read it. So week one, ours viewed thirty five million Wek two, ours viewed fifty nine million Wek three. numberber of hours viewed twenty three million Week four hours viewed twelve million. So basically start at thirty five goes to fifty nine million hours viewed, then down to twenty three and then down to twelve And according to this website, that steep drop off in week three is the death knell for most Netflix shows. It signals a t of sorry, it signals a lack of long tail growth and suggests that word of mouth wasn't strong enough to carry it beyond its initial premiere window When a show carries a massive price tag due to special effects in a veteran cast, Netflix needs it to have staying power, the buroughs simply didn't find the audience it needed to justify the budget Cleic, your reaction to the cancellation of the buroughs mean They In terms of like the circumstantial evidence, this comes Days after Paramount dated The Deuffer Brothers having what they're calling an event film in I believe twenty twenty eight. So, they announnce a date for their first film, which we have no details on, but it has a date and then a I believe I actually have a title. It's called The Borroughs The movie. No, I'm just show those things happen in a similar window over the like within within a week of one another. So they're looking for circumstantial, you know you're looking for the tea leaves Right? Yeah. Yeah. It definitely And it might not be as correlated as like they're on the outs with them in so much as They have no reason to keep the Deuffver Brothers happy. anyw. Right? Like so do I think of the Deuffver Brothers are still in house at Netflix producing Hey, we're thinking about what our post Stranger Things show is going to be and it's going be at Netflix. So then the Burros gets its second and third season, which they werere talking about shooting back to back I do. I think that becomes part of the calculation is keeping like their orbit happy. and here, there's just less of a reason to do that That said Widows Bay and the buroughs are not equal shows in quality. Widows Bay is a transcendent like piece of genre work that is like I think going to be seen as one of the best shows of the last ten years especially as we get some further distance from it So the burrs is not hitting at the same caliber They're operating both the genre pieces that are playing in the horror comedy realm. or I guess Broros is more thriller, right than horror U Yeah and Widows Bay picked up, picked up, picked up word of mouth word of mouth, worordd of mouth They did a weekly release It had one, you know, was it episode six and seven were paired together sort of thematically, but otherwise was a weekly release and just it ended strong as people got on board and watched the show. And this is I look at this as more of an indictment of Netflix's strategy with how they distribute shows in which I think certain types of shows, certain genres poor paring. with the Dump the whole show I think sci fi mystery like mystery Back shows like Yeah, those are Those are so much better suited for the weekly talk about it, obsess over it, break it apart for it. And so Yes, the bureaus did not hit if these we take these numbers at face value, did not hit. sort of like the the generalized now multiple decades long metrics that Netflix can use based on historical data. likeike hey, just didn't have the juice relative to the budget. We've seen shows like the Bors come and go and we know that if it doesn't hit this many numbers like we've released them all in the same way, right? We've dumped them all binge release. And we know if the borros doesn't hit this number by this week, We're not going to pick it up. Like this's kind of two terms there and I think it's important. Yes When you when you release a show, a genres like this, it feels like a dump doesn't feel like a binge. I those are different like Dump feels like here it is We shovel ten episodes out, like watch it. Whereas When you release it weekly, it feels like it's curated and like you're going on a journey with the show and the audience. And those shows are written in that way. Wh his May is funny too, because They actually could have dropped that show all at once because like every episode is sort of a monster of the week. It doesn't feel as intimately connected as the Borros, you know does. I take issue with Net Netflix's distribution model. I don't really take issue with the The measurements here, like the data is the data that you can skew data however you want, but I I buy that it wasn't hitting the generalized numbers. I disagree with how they approach distribution as a This is just how we do it with everything. which is like, you know, you have live shows, you have other like there are just other w, you can do things in different ways based on what the the show demands and what the audience is best suited for. And I think this is a I think The buroughs may not have hit the numbers, by also think Netflix was a participant in the failure of being allowing the buroughs to succeed to the heights that it could have if it was given a better chance to find an audience on a weekly month What is strange too, is Netflix is not religiously opposed to the weekly release either. right? There are some shows for which they do that loveove is bllind, the reality TV show. they do that. they they don't do one episode a week, but they drop them in batches over the course of time. And so I don't know why they and obviously Stranger Th things season five, right? They did in batches and so. I don't know why they don't do that more often U And maybe it could have allowed things to find the audience if they did do that We will never know But I think what Patrick is saying and what I agree with is sometimes the metrics don't show all of the relevant information you need about something like this, right? Sometimes the metrics don't show, hey U the metrics can't really show what word of mouth would have been on the buroughs if you had let a playay week to week. They do not show that, right? Because It is pretty much unnable Uh And so I think it is a shame that they've decided to do it this way. All that said Um This website, what's on Netflix also released this chart where they showed how the first four weeks of viewing of the burau stacked up against other Netflix shows, right And here are shows that had significantly more viewership than the buroughs Three body problems Black Doves, eighteen ninety nine, M on fire, the Lincoln L lawyer, the recruit, the waterfront Nmesis, the diplomat Obliterated and ransom Canyon. All those shows, most of which by the way, don't exist anymore as far as I know, or Lcoln lawyer just got canceled That was after M many se Yeah. so that was good. But and by the way, those are all season one metrics. I should point out, Th are all season onees of shows. Gotcha. gototcha. Gotcha But I remember like eighteen ninety nine, you know, that was A big deal show from the Creators of Dark. if I recall correctly right? And like I think we discussed it here on decoding TV I think if I recall correctly, I did an episode with Kim Renfor about that And I did not enjoy that show very much, but It was it got way more viewership than the Bros like looks like fifty percent more viewership than the Bros in the first week of release And so and they cancellled eighteen ninety nine Yeah And that was like Unlike the buroughs, There was a cliffhanger at the end of the Yeah. It was meant as a multi season arc like Dark was. Yeahah. And so it's like U if they're willing to put eighteen ninety nine out to pasture, right? which I actually think probably costs less than the burros then the Bros is probably not safe Having said that Patrick, I do think you're right. They have no reason to keep the brother the Duffer brothers happy And the What's on Netflix article points out something very notable, I think, which is that With the Duffer Brothers having recently departed from Netflix for a lucrative film and TV deal at Parabout, this cancellation leaves Netflix with only one active Duffer Brother project remaining The upcoming animated series Stranger Things Tales from eighty five Rumored for an October return Their adaptation of the talisman was scrapped And the only other lingering projects in development are a spinoff for Stranger of Things, which is still in its infancy note adaptation, which is MIA And an adaptation of the savage noble death of Babs Dion. which was announced last year, end quote. So basically U The only one that seems really tangible right now is that Stanger Thingstills from eighty five. But here's the thing Uh Netflix historically, orders two seasons of an animated show. they do two seasons at once. So when they order So when Season one comes out and so really quickly like six months later, you get a season two. It's not because they made it that fast. It's because they actually made both seasons concurrently because animation is so hard to spin up. And so The real metric on stranger Things tailes from eighty five is whether there's a season three less so than if there is a season two because they Of course, they're going to release the season two. they already made it. So it's there to be released My guess is basically none of that gets made. I think I think it's more or less a clean break from The Duffer Brothers Yeah, I mean, my takeaway from this is this is like when you break up with someone in a romantic relationship and you're like, but we'll still be friends you know, like Sometimes it works out and you are friends for life and you still hang out and they come to your wedding. and sometimes they cancel your show that has a lot of esteemed character actors on it The the strangeer things one that's the open question, right? Like right? I don't think that spinoff happens. Um But there will be another strranger thing show. like the temptation is just going be to Mmhm too tough. I think I think too many of the actors in Stranger Things aren't going to have particularly successful careers post Ranger Things. It's going to be the what Ghostbusterers afterlife version of Stranger Things basically Yeah like if it's not T years later, we're bringing everybody back to do a sequel series, which I think is inevitable for Stranger Things at some point The the thing is for me like Netflix, the attraction to make a stranger Th show too large for Netflix to ignore too much for the Duffer Bothers to ignore getting involved with and that's something I'll be curious to see play out in the years to come Indeed, indndeed. But in the meantime, sad story about the cancellation of the boroughros But notice Good job that they made the show basically a limited series And I can still recommend you watch it because Still still a satisfying season in television. You see how that works You see how that works, folks? Unlike nineteen eighty nine, which I'll never watch because I ends on such a brutal cliffhanger. Absolutely no point in watching eighteen ninety nine Indeed That's going bring us the end of TV news this week, going be a shorter segment, but we'll be back with a normal size episode next week on the podcast This ad is sponsored by ZakDoc Hi, it's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. Have you been putting off that annual doctor's appointment because you don't want to make the call? Or maybe you've been meaning to find a new dentist, but you have no idea where to start? I find that's especially true when you move. It's hard to find your people. I've been there, which is why I use ZockDoc. Now as a busy podcast or parent and someone who's always juggling a million things, I love anything that makes life easier And ZCDoc lets you search and compare local in network doctors with over two hundred fifty thousand providers across more than two hundred specialties. 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Limited time offer, restestrictions apply. new customers only requires three hundred megabits per second internet, security ge and additionalifing service, one year agreement, payerless billing and aut pay with bank account required. Tax and fees extra Before we continue into our Dark Matter, season one episode one review and recap, Patrick Kleppick, you want to let people know where they came about more of your work on the internet this week Yeah, you can hear me talking about video games over at remapradio. com. The new Starfox game is out. There are mass layoffs happening att Xbox and Bungie, a lot of bleak thingsings happening, the expensive steam machines. way yeay, AI. you can hear us talking about that and more remap radio. com or where you get your podcast. And then I also run a parenting and gaming newsletter called Crossplay I recently wrote about my nine year old going away to a like week long sleepway camp, where it was the first time in her life that she has probably not been around some kind of screen since she was born, which was Uh good for her, good for me, and she had a she had a wonderful time despite being kind of shitting bricks as we actually approached the camp and it became a reality. So can you can read about that over crossplay. News All right, and again, a reminder next week, our show of the week is going to be the Bear and we will continue our Dark Matter season one rewatch In the meantime, let's get to it. Dark Batter, season one episode one Let's begin ordinary wife ten Not deserry That's true. science He is married to He's trained they have good life Have a good day. Cffed, Joe. Oh my gosh, you're my hero. Until one night. He doesn't make it home. When he regains consciousness E thing has changed don't know it sounds like he's crazy I'm not crazy Welcome to dececoding TV's coverage of Dark Matter season one episode one. Again, if you aren' not aware of what we're doing here on decoding TV, Dark Matter seeason two is premiering at the end of August. and so we are rewatching every episode of Dark Matter and talking about it I have already seen everypisode. Patrick Klepck has not. so it's going to be his first time going through it So he'll be the audience surrogate in this situation But I've already seen it. and in addition, I'm going to be reading the book by Blake Crouch, Dark Matter, who is also the showrunner of the series Dark Man And I'm going to be providing some insights and comparisons to the book. and hopefully that'll be a little bit more value add as opposed to, hey, these are two guys talk about a show I watched two years ago. So hopefully there'll be a little value add. And you can join along. Watch along with the show on Apple TV or read the book along with me. And I think it'll be a lot of fun. We hope you'll join us. This is the first time we are doing something like this at deceoding TV So we want to hear what you think. Are you enjoying it? Is this a good a thing you'd want us to do for other shows to do moving forward We'd love to hear your feedback, decoding TV at gmail. comot is how you can communicate that feedback to us. So all that said Let's get into Dark Matter season one episode one, the season premiere Patrick Kleppk, let's start with our overall thoughts on this episode. I do want to point out that when this show premiered, it did premiere both episodes one and two at the same time. We're only going to be discussing episode one, We'll do episode two next week and so on until the premiere of seeason two of Dark Matter But what did you think of the episode so far? and then we will talk in detail with spoilers about what actually happened So I've watched this premiere. Twice. I watched it for the first time as part of Hey, I know David wanted to watch Dark Matter maybe to cover season two sometometimes I'll set my iPad up while I'm cooking dinner for the family and the kids and like, all right, like I feel like I can watch this off to the side while'm while I'm prepping. And Me you if you don't care about, you can just put I trying to figure out like how like do we want to cover season two? is like I'll watch this a little more casually before I and then I mented that to you're like wa Maybe there's something else we can do do with this here. So I last night before recording this, I rewatched episode one. And I will say I liked episode one more upon the second watch and it's less so because I was watching it more on a proper television with like better audio more that like At first glance it's like, oh Like another show where like a guy from another dimension comes in and they swap places Well, I've seen that one before. Like it's not an original When you say you've seen that one before, though, what what are the ideas that come to mind? I'm just curious. L just generically, I'm not speaking to any particular like story like idiot of D I a version of you like can come from somewhere else. right You swap place That's that in and of itself is not enough to go. Wonder what they're going to do with with this idea. ha where this is going The But the part that makes me interested is one caliber of actors across the board, like. who we've got here is like a ton of like actors that I love watching Chew on interesting material and is really in the second watch, like especially You know, we'll get into it like the sort of intimate scene of between two characters at the end that you start to really sit with the implications of what is what has happened here and What could be interesting about it being done in a television format, where There is just only so much juice you can squeeze from I wonder if that would happen. I wonder if that could happen. I wonder what I wonder what would happen if this happened in a ninety minute two hour film. So you can only sort of brush against the basic ideas that would happen, the ripple effects of swapping places with another version of yourself. So That's what got me excited to keep going by the end. was like I think the pilot is fine. I think it's it establishes sort of the base level stakes, but doesn't actually do the part that I'm excited about, which is what are the implications that can be explored doing this for you know ten hours as opposed to ninety minutes. And I think a television series, much like a book is a really interesting place to sit with those implications in a way that It can be high stakes and low stakes, right? Like high stakes is, you know, you swap places, the world is going down unless the timeline is reestablished. R Lower stakes is like, like did a sexual assault just occur as a result of L and it's things that just Oh, right. like that this stuff gets really complicated and really thought provoking really fast, the show has a chance to sit with that I don't know if it does. I'm guessing based on the reactions of you and others does and That's what makes me more interested to keep going. I think had I just watched this pilot, I'm just skimming through genre shows M. I don't think there's enough there The whole reason we're doing this exercise at all is because of the enormous praise I've heard from you and others over where the show ends up going. So ye, I enjoy enjoyed this first episode I don't think it's a banger, but it's like mostly because it's covering a lot of similar ground to what I've seen in stories that explore a similar premise. I think that's totally fair, Patrick. I will say that episode two is when I really got hooked on the show. L Okay. Episode one I agree is fine. And I know, perhaps that's why they released both together. But know, we'll have to wait till next week to talk about episode two. But episode two is when I You know, the meme where you sit for in the chair seat. Yeah. You know, like that's when I was like, o, okay, like this is how we're going to go. And so so let's I want to hear what your reaction is after next week Im looking forward to that Um, but Why do I like Dark Matter? whyy do I keep thinking about the show even years after it's aired? Uh, and It's because it asks this basic question What if you A could live a different life. What if in your own life you had made different choices, right? Like what if You had decided to proceed, you had zigged instead of zagged L how would your life be different? Would you be happier? You know, would you be happier than you are now if you had done a different thing And I think the show really exxplores that question, that fundamental question in a way that I think is extremely satisfying U And we can talk about what the answer is to that question. as we get towards the end of the show But maybe you can guess what the answer is right from the jump just sim of the way I'm phrasing it. I don't know if we I maybe don't have time for this week, but at some point maybe we should wait to the end of the. I don't know. But I think The audience, maybe people can write in and you, David should think about this and I will think about this. I already have an answer. I'm pretty sure. If you can pinpoint bigiggest Yes, no departure moment that fundamentally changes the entire arc of your life of your life your life What is whether it's a decision some someone made for you and then that like look through your life. What is the moment that has the most profound impact of like what chang? Do you have that in mind right now for you? Yeah, it's's it's it's I was I've been with my wife for twenty plus years and We started dating in college We've been together for less than a year. I was I was twenty one. She was twenty three. I got offered a job I had planed to stay home for a year or two and then eventually moveved to California We've been together for just a year plus, we're extremely young kind of barely know each other. And I said, I have to move to California Do you want to come with me Mm and If she had said no Everything about my life is different, right? Like Yeah Everything. like everything about, you know, you can go further back, like, you know, myares don't encourage me to write about video gam yad, yad, yada But The most consequential Yes no. was whether she said she's going to come to California or not because she doesn't I meet someone else, like maybe I never come back to them. just everything about my current life is fundamentally different. understand whether she says yes or no to the question of We haven't known each other that long to make this big of a decision. But do you want to move to California with me Fascinating fascinating. Yeah, this is this is great. This is the kind of stuff I want us to talk about as we're going through the show. So if you have a moment And you want to write to us Ste TVjmail dot com. mayaybe we'llad of yours at the end of this episode. I' beine. especiallyome. I'm hoping like over the course of the season mayaybe other micro ones of those like it'll be fun to tell Yeah like, oh, I have a version of that. like I, you know, even in this this pilot, like saying yes or no to a job. like what is those like consequential like yes no to a job that would have changed a lot of your life? I think it could be could be fine Decoding TV at Gmail d. com or I think this will be on YouTube. We're going to work on that. YouTube dot com s at decodingV. If we put that up, you can comment there I have one that's a job. I w this I have a similar story to you about my wife and so on, but like I have one that's a job. and arrguably would be more consequential. Okaykay. so I had just I was on the verge of graduating college. And when you are about to graduate college, they have all these like informational sessions where basically people come and say, hey, apply to our job and then they reject you after you apply. Like that happens that happened to me so many times, right? You go to the Oh yeah,y, that looks like a cool job and then you apply and they reject you. It's like, well, why this is a waste of both of our times. Anyway Uh I went to an info session about how to become an investment banker at JP Morgan And I actually impressed The guy the rep there, right? Like the guy you get with numbers, you strike me as some like I'm okay with numbers. I'm okay. You're o Okay, okay. Well just becausecause you're running your own personal businesses that often I got an eight hundred on my SA I got a perfect math score on my SAT. Okay about that. Okay which was which was relevant back. I'm not bragging that today. It was relevant back then because I was only a few years out from that And U I remember they're like, okay, so if you want to apply like, you know, submit your thing to this phone number or whatever it was And I remember submitting it, like submitting my resume or whatever And then thinking about the life of an investment banker And how like When I heard, it's like, you got to work seventy to eighty hours a week and you're stressed all the time and you need to wear a suit all the time. And all these things are not like suitable to David Jen necessarily Mm But of course You're making a shit ton of money. rightight? And that that is that is the concept that is the trade offff. that you're making. I think like investment bankers back then were making something on the order of like one hundred to one hundred thirty five thousand dollars a year, which twenty years ago coming out of college directly is like incred. It's like mind blowing amounts of money to make at that point And So But I thought about it. I was like, oh man, that's not that life sounds so stressful I just don't think I want to make that. I don't think that's the kind of life I want And so I went and withdrew my application And I remember distinctly the ph I got a phone call about it. Somebody called me And they said, hey, like It wasn't the person at the the seminar, but he was like someomebody that was representing They like, hey, saw that you pulled your resume what happed? Is everything okay? And I was like, oh yeah, no, I just don't think of'm that interest. It's like well, You know, like they're interested in you, you know, like they're interested in like you joining. So like are you sure you don't want to do it? And I said, Yeahah, no, I think it's fine. And literally If I had said yes to that phone call. I think there's a significant chance my whole life like there would be no cast though decoding like And all the stuff that has come from that, like, Yeah. all the people that you know, many of my listeners might have been introduced to as a result, you know, like Um might have not happen or wouldn't have happened in the same way. You know, I'm not saying like And obviously, Patrick Kleig is a legend already. so it's not like I'm saying that. But I'm you know what I'm just saying like none of it would have played out in the same way. Like whole this whole chapter of my life probably just would not have happened where I'm making stuff for the internet, you know Um So I think about that sometimes anyway Let's talk about what actually happened the episode. So we're going we're going I'm going to recap the episode. I have the Wikiped plot summary that've added a few things to. and then I've also read the first three to four chapters of the book And I'm going to talk about some differences in the book. There will be no spoilers from future weeks, but I'm going to put the book stuff towards the end so you can skip if you don't want to hear that stuff. I'm try I'm going to try to come up with like three to five Observations slash comparisons that we can talk about each week. And so you can kind of reflect on, you know, what's different and why the show chose the way it chose. Again, worth noting, the book Dark Matter was written by Blake Crouch. who also was the showrunner for the show. So there' a he had a lot of control over how the show was adapted And it's interesting to see some of the decisions that he made. In Dark Matter, season one episode one Jason Desson, a college physics professor lives with his wife, Danilla and son Charlie in Chicago endquote, Let me just stop here, Patrick Klepping, as somebody who lives in. I'm feasting. I'm feasting Yeah, I was gonna to say like like my wife went to the University of Chicago. She said This show makes Chicago look great. What do you think? They also you can tell, so they live in an area called Logan Square and there's there's a famous Logan Square circle, traffic circle. the spot where when they're going to drive to school.. They stop with the red light. likeike that is That's the Logan Square traff traffic circles. like Oh they did Yeah, the bear shoots in Chicago. like I mean, they shoot really close to all the stuff at the quote Bear is near my wife's office. likeike so she's always like, they're shooting again. I know I don't know if they've announced a new season, but like, They're here. and u you could tell, but like a lot of the bear is is is restaurants in Chicago and then skyline like beautiful shots of the city sort of mixed in This is like You didn't really have to shoot it like the Logan Square traffic circle to establish the feel. So you could have done in Vancouver or something like that, but I would have known but like the average person would have you know, they because every Chicago Base show does the Uh it's like the Chicago establishing shot is either like the skyline of the of the tall buildings or like what they do in Batman begins like o like underneath like the train is in like on top of us and you get to drive through like sort of the the rustic pillars is like iconic to driving to Chicago but here is what about the Logan Square traffic circle? And I cannot help but respect it. Like that is so. uck it man That's the Apple TV money. likeike we're going to the ground floor to say you don't have to prove. But if you know you know And I know. And I was like game respect game, Dark K. That's awesome. That's awesome When his friend Ryan wins the prestigious Pavia prize, Jason attends his celebration at a local bar called the Village Tap E quote. So let's just stop there for a second. now. You might be wondering, what is the Pavia prize According to an article from the cinemaholic. com The Poppy Prize Ajason wins in one reality is completely made up Though there is a real institution called the University of Pavia in the Lombardi region of Italy, it is not collected connected with the prize mentioned in the series based on a novel. The university was established in thirteen sixty one And it's considered one of the most reputable universities in Europe. This prize is probably analogous to like a Nobel prize in real life Also, I think one of the things that's hilarious about the show is It makes these neuroscientists, physicists, people into like Ryan is like a stud, you know what I mean? Like he's he's like hitting on women and like and it's like, oh, it's because he's got the pro you know, it's like immagine if the Nobel Prize people were like women were throwing themselves at all those Nobel Prize winners Uh It doesn't really happen as much in real life. Maybe it does. I don't know. I've never won a Nobelrize so maybe I don'. Village tap is a real thing, though Oh nice. nice. Is that have you been there I think so. att least I look at the pictures, it seems to be the same as as' depicted of the show, which puts them over in Rosco Village. I don't know how they're playing with Chicago geography, which can get a little I'll keep an eye as I' watching the show, if there are references to places, I will do my best to guys sir what was the show you did this with a Seattle? I forget where You were helping explain Seattle geography to us as it was maybe it'll come tonight. I don'tember but I did look up Lake Mont College which is not a real college in real life. That's the college that Jason works at.. It is instead the mathematics community center at Northeastern Illinois University U So I have looked up kind of some of the real life comparisons here Anyway, as Jason Deson is walking back home, he is held at gunpoint and abducted by a masked man who takes him to a building site, forces him to remove his clothes and surrender his phone, and injects him with an unknown substance which gradually renders him unconscious As Jason falls unconscious, the masked man asks Jason if he is happy with his life and if he ever thought about what other lives he could have lived to which Jason says yes Patrick If u if you were in this situation where this guy seems to know everything about you He can unlock your phone. He knows about your wife and kid. He knows about your schedule h he's monitoring every movement And then he like sticks you up and then takes you out to a warehouse and asks you to remove your clothes. What is your course of action there? Like you are you doing? Are you behaving it Are you behaving like Jason Dessin behaves in the show Yeah, you should probably you' probably fight back at some point, but they do they do a The show spends a lot of time sort of Even though it's I don't buy it for the actor, the actor is like, I think you could You could get in a fight and I think you'd be all right. I don't buy myself necessarily being. But if I fought myself, I guess that's the difference. You don't know you're fighting yourself, But even though I'm not a confident fighter, I'm pretty sure I could take myself out You know what I mean? Yeah, but well you don't okay, so to be clear, right? I know I don't know Your interpretation of what is going on in the show, which I think you have a good reason to believe is that Jason is being held up by another version of himself. Yeah. Yeah. That is the heavy implication by the end of of the episode. Right Right. So if not outright stated, basically. And You're saying the thing is like he isn't necessarily a good view of the guy behind right now I'm not faulting him for not like clocking like, could I fight myself and win But I will say like my general feeling on like if I was It wasn't held up, but it was in San Francisco once, like right after we'd moved there. I had this like nice DSLR camera. It's like was my gift for my pnts for college or graduating college. and we were at one of our Cangun Tak carea on seeventh in market. if you're familiar with the area, anyone listening. And I set my takaking up off my neck and I sit it down in front of me. and we're not like right by the door But we're a couple tables in. and it's not a great area of San Francisco. Wasn't then still isn't now Um Unbievil food guy rushes in grabs the camera, rushes out. And I am like mid bite in the burrito. And my wife girlfriend at the time looks at me and goes Run. I'm like, o. So she's like are you a man? So you't let that happen? I was just so taken aback likeike it was in front of me, picked up, ran off. I didn't And again, I stak cararneasada in my mouth. like I didn't know what to do. So just run and I think she had a more quizzical. It was less like be a man more like run. L there was more of a question like So I ran And Um I caught up with a guy or like around the corner, he goes into an alleyway He he's got the camera And he looks at me and he goes, He doesn't have a gun or a knife or anything but he's got the camera They do he says A phrase I'll never forget, Do you really want to do this And I was stop went No. And I turned around and walked away You were like that police officer in the town who like when when Ben Affleck and his guys are rolling up in the back, he like turns away from it, you know, basically. Well, hey, I'm glad you did that, Patrick because otherwise you might not be here to talk about that. So so I think I think, you know, if I'm being realistic, I think I end up drugged at the fact in the warehouse I'll probably it'll probably be okay when I wake up Pait and see you. If he was going to kill me, he would have killed me by now. So you know, and I think that's what have been my my thought of the matter like this is a bad situation. If I look at the red flags here, they're veryery red flaggy, but If I was going to die, I think I'd be dead now and I'm not. So maybe I should just sort of s see where this ends up I will say that I'm going to try not to do book comparisons like as we talk about the show, but I did want to just bring up in the book, this whole sequence with the two Jons is much more extended. L they actually have a full blown conversation about their history and their past and it reveals information that I think we're going get later on in the show U whichich I think is it's good that they move that to a later point U But there is there is a moment when what the the let's say the original Jason and we'll call that Jason one or the original just Jason says to Jason two, which is what I'll refer to him from now on Uh, that like I thought you youre like, are you going to kill me And Jason two basically says No, I'm not going to, but I need you to believe that I would kill you right?s that's the only way I was going to get you to come out of here And so there's all these like moments where Uh, he threatens him and, you know, points the gun at him and does all this stuff to like convince him that he's going to kill. And in the show, I just don't think you really need that particularly like you can just hey, he's got a gun pointed at him. He's asking to do some basic, you know, it kind of all makeakes sense. So anyway, I thought that was kind of interesting. Anyway. When he awakens Jason Desson finds himself in a laboratory facility called Velocity Labs, where he meets lab psychiatrist Amanda Lucas, who he doesn't recognize and Velocity CEO Leayon Vance, whom he does recognize Both of whom are delighted that he has returned. We've learned that Jason is the chief science officer and co founder of the company Velocophity Labs and that he has been gone for fourteen months Uncertain and disoriented, Jason escapes the lab and returns to his house where he again meets Amanda, who says she lives there with him The interior decor of the house is completely different and there is no sign of Daniella or Charlie Meanwhile, Jason's abductor is revealed to be another version of himself who we'll call Jason too who enters Jason One's house and seduces Daniella Also, by the way, Jason one discovers that in this new universe that he's in, he's a renowned physicist and it's him who won the Pavia Prize. And in this reality, he doesn't have a wife at all That's a combination of Wikipedia and also my own summary of the things. But yeah, Patrick H As you're watching this like anything you think was done well or, you know, your overall reaction was The pilot was okay. So I assume you thought this is all just very competent but not particularly remarkable. Well I do like I sort of assume like, oh he's waked up in this other universe. He's in the lab like, okay, like we're probably gonna spend a couple episodes of him being studied in the lab. And I love the fact that he just does the thing that you should do. It's like fuck this. L the moment that elevator opens is like, I am How out of here which is which is really fun. And the fact that you're dropped into a just slightly askew universe where right it's plausible that he can escape when people are like coming in the front door because he knows like the best way to get out a side door and then into an alleyway because it's same but different. And so adds like a level of credibility for him to escape sort of a sequence like that that is that is pretty fun. And so I think the one thing that maybe it'll make more sense over time, but like He was gone for fourteen months, like Everyone treats him likeike He's lost his Marbles when he's like, I don't really recognize anything that's going on. like I think I have a different family and like this isn't the What did they think they were doing as an experiment They would now not allow the plausibility for after being gone for fourteen months You wouldn't grant him a little, I don't know, more like like a little more grace on or believability on I don't know. So I guess I don't know what they were experimenting on. So maybe it's so deeply implausible or they were testing for something else. but I didn't think it was like, I don't know, manlight maybe Maybe humor the guy a little bit on the fact that maybe he's tell telling his version of the truth, but everyone else treats him like he' completely lost it. So I don't know, but I'm sure that will be explored in episodes to come I will say that One of the things that's a little frustrating about the show is I do think the audience is often ahead of where the main character Jason is a lot. Like I think we already get, oh, it's a multiverse thing and there's two Jasonons and blah, blah. You know, Jason one doesn't even I think fully understand that quite yet, right? Yeah. And that's always tough when the audience is like super far ahead because you're like, willill the character catch up or not And so we'll see how that plays out But one thing I did appreciate is When he gets home and shows up And then wham, like Amanda is right like that is just like o like how the hell did you getting? And also like Weir'd together like that that I thought was just a really effective moment And on that note, I want to give a shout out to Alice Braga. I mean, look, Alice Braga has been associated with some pretty rough sci fi movies, notot only rough sci fi movies, but often The movie becomes a rough sci fi movie when she shows up in my opinion, many times I'm thinking of movies like Elysium or, you know What a repoan and you know she u She's had a mixed track record and I think, when it comes to the sci fi movies, but she definitely has like a type of movie that she really appreciates, you know Anyway I am Legend Another example, notot a bad movie, although the ending of, you know, the ending of the movie is kind of a disgrace in my opinion. I' leend. But anyway, because because they changed the fundamental meaning of the title. All right, go back go back this show Dark Matter So One of my favorite moments from The first episode is when Alice Brag's character, Amanda. Fines Jason in the, you know, Velocity labs crew quarters or whatever and she goes to give. She's like so excited to see him. She's like, Oh my gosh, you're back. And she gives him a hug and and he's like for you And then you see the reaction on her face like she's like sllowly like the gears are turning. like she's starting to understand like what exactly is happening and like, what does it mean that he doesn't know who I am? likeike what could that possibly mean? I thought that was like a great moment just of great acting on her face. and she doesn't say it like it's words. It's just like Just her realization of what's going on, I thought was really nice And then when he he like he finally gets home the place that is supposed to be the most safe and then wham, Amanda's right there. It's like, o shit like ye 'rew U, so I did think there are some like really nice surprising moments in this episode Of course we have to acknowledge that Jennifer Conolly is one of the most beautiful women on the planet And so the idea of presumably Jason two wants to go What is it about Like guys jumping into different dimensions just so they can get with that woman. like it's This is a thing that often happens. Jeniferonnlly's got a type You know You know, u anotherother, you know, when I think of like Dimension jumping people things. I think of the TV show sliders. I think of everything everywhere all at once. I think of Duncan Jones' source code U And oftentimes one of the plot lines is you you're a guy, you jump into another dimension and you want to like get the girl that you didn't get Uh, and seems to be a fix like guys will literally invent interdimensional travel rather than go to therapy It's kind of one of the themes that we're Yeah, I'm with you. Patrick Kleck, any of your thoughts on the season one premiere of Dark Matter? And then I'll dive into a few book comparisons that might be interesting to discuss. Yeah, any other thoughtults? No, I'm I guess I would just ask you, is the moment that you stood up in your chair metaphorically or perhaps literally Is it a speivific moment or a dawnnting realization? Like is there going to arere you going to be able to next week? That was the exact moment where I locked in on the show. In my opinion, it is a moment and you donon't know what that moment is. I think we'll have a rough freewatch if season one of Dark M. All right, I'm looking I'm very'm planing I'm about to I' literally ready to rap this podcast and I'm going to the airport. And I'm like I'm downloading Dark Matter, I'm downloading the bear. Well I guess I'll downlad it tonight But I got it and like That is my that is my plan. If I make it through what I think is the point, I I will let you know. Yeah, it's actually. let me know. And I'll be curious to hear what people think about it as well. So we're going to do some book comparisons now. And by the way, feel free to email us your reactions at decoding TVtme. com. These are book comparisons. I'm going to really try hard to not spoil things from future episodes But some people might find this spoilery. So like if you're really averse and don't listen to this part Um But I wanted to bring up a couple of things for the book that I thought were different and worth noting. Number one In the show, I think Jason Desson is a lot stupider than he is in the book. What I mean by that is H Like, when he shows up at velocity labs, right He is He's all like disori he's all disoriented. What's happening? showhow me the money. takeake me to the pe, you know, like where is my wife, right? He's like all like discombobulated and stuff. And in the book he's much smarter. He's like, 'a he's like, maybe these people are working with that guy Right Like maybe they're like it's all part of some scheme to like defraud me or kill or something. And so he's like su he's like tries to like play along. He's tries like, okay, yeah, sure yeah. Oh, you want me to remember I'm so sorry, I can't remember the thing right now, but maybe give me something like he's he's much more intelligent about it. And I don't know why they didn't keep that. I think it's because in the book, you can like hear him reasoning out like All that stuff. And it' be hard for him to show him doing that in the show maybe Yeah. But he does come a little bit dense does come off a little bit dense in the show, I think. What do you think about that? Yes, I think that's part of to draw a contrast between and the other reality He wins the prize and he's this like incredible scientist. I think they sort of It's hard to tell how much is is he a little Is he like literally just smarter than the other reality? I don't think that's true. I think he's like sort of There are parts of his intellect that have beenulled as a result of the life that he chose. And like that's not necessarily doesn't necessarily mean you're unhappy, but in the show is probably going to explore The choices you made, the path you didn't go on and how that ends up, you know compounding sort of interest intellectually, you know, happiness over time or doesn't. Uh One of the things that the show does that I think is really cool and that you start to get a glimpse of in the episode is The show cuts back and forth between the two realities quite frequently. and there is actually like a sound. it's like a It's like the Nintendo switch.