Book Versus Show Comparisons

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It's why summer is one of the busiest stretches of the year for people starting therapy. Grow Thrapy is here for all the moments when you decide you want more, more support, more clarity, more tools Gro connects you with thousands of high quality licensed therapists across the US, offering both virtual and in person sessions, nights and weekends. The therapist you want takes your insurance on G. Gro accepts over one hundred twenty five insurance plans. Sessions average twenty one dollars with insurance and some pay as little as zero dollars depending on their plan Visit growthapy d. com slash ACast today to get started. That's growthapy dot com slash Acast growthapy d. com slash Acast Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plans Hello everyone and welcome to Decoding TV, a podcast about television I'm David Chen, joining me as usual. He's Patrick Lleig, Patrick. How goes your summer these days It's it's a we're in a you don't like terms like heat dome Nobody wants to be in a heat tone Like, if you're told you're in a heat dome,, you should probably try to get out of it. fortunately the heat dome is across the entire midwest of America. and so I'm stuck in this heat dome till it decides to leave. Hope you're staying cool out there along with all of our listeners. You know what else is heat? kitchen off the bear O the Hoooo original series. Sometimes it doesn't, though So I don't know if that really holds up We're going to be discussing that today here on decoding TV. We're going to be discussing the bear season five. We have seen the entire thing. All eight episodes of the B Season five, We're going to be doing a full review we'll be doing non spoilers first And then we will dive into spoilers at the very end of the review We've got some TV news, some big things going on in the world television And then we are going to conclude by continuing our Dark Matter rewatch. This week will'll be discussing season one episode two of the show So let's get into it petroclepic. Let's talk about the bear You good music It' no last day Out of time. I'm not giving up. We're gonna keep operating. Richard, I am selling the building. G bring in The restaurant is flooded The deliveries cut us off We're gonna run out of food. Everything's either gonna be okay? No, stop! Stop Welcome to dececoding TV's coverage of The Bear. I'm David Chen here with Patrick Leppick U at the end of last season of the Bear season four Carmy had made a pretty consequential decision. He had told the rest of the crew, including Sydney, Richie, and Natalie that he was going to be leaving the food service industry Who knows possibilities that was going to lead to Of course we find out during this season of the bear that there is going to be a big service because the bear, the restaurant is in terrible shape, but they need to keep it going for one more night And that is basically what the season is. So we're going to talk about the overall structure of the season with no like final episode spoilers for the first part of this conversation And then at the very end, we'll talk about like where all the characters end up The serious finale point. We'll start by just saying overall, again, this is the structure of the season. I'm going to talk about it right now This episode this season takes place mostly over the course of a single day And so that is a unique premise for a season of television and of course the Bear as well And it potentially has some room for pretty interesting drama. All that said, Patrick Klepk, I want to hear from you We've had a pretty mixed feelings about pretty mixed feelings about the Bearar over the last few seasons Seons one and two, I think we both thought were great Three and four, much more mixed Now with season five. Do you think this is a return to form? Is the bear back to its former glory? Or is it a waste of time in this season. what did you think of the season overall hold on I think the show landed the plane. I think this is much more much closer to the show that I fell in love with in seasons one and two. It lowers its ambitions to get these characters all in a place and Rowing in one direction, both in terms of their individual character arcs, which truly came to an end at the end of season four. So they brought everyone back. for one last ride and This is really just a one last ride episode or season that feels like we're going through the motions in a way that is a goodbye, like a swan song to why I fell in love with the show and these characters in the first place. And so It felt like every fifteen minutes I watch a lot of this on an airplane. and like You're crying again, Patrick. like you cry. keepe it together. it, it hit So many different emotional moments for me. I do not think it hits the electric highs of seasons one and two It hit the very low bar of land the plane without crashing it. And I think far exceeded that. I had a when we talked about whether we were going to watch the entire season. I was gone on a work trip where I had precious little free time that I could dedicate to it. And a combination of The vast majority of the episodes is being twenty to thirty minutes with a couple of exceptions But then just the sheer propulsion of the season, the momentum of The plot this season, right? I You told me you don't have to watch the whole, it's okay if you don't watch the whole thing. It'd be great, but like it's all right. I understand. I watched the whole damn thing because I could not not watch the whole damn thing. So I had a a wonderful time. It's far from perfect, but in terms of where the show was and some of the messes that it had gotten itself into structurally and with its characters, I thought they did a wonderful course correction And it's such a weird I was sad I was saying goodbye. whichich is not how I was feeling at the ends of season three and four was like, we need to say goodbye because this has gone on too long. It's like, you did it to me again. I wish these characters are coming back and they shouldn't. But that's a feeling I was I was left with, which is the feeling you want to be left with. when you're getting, I think, a fitting goodbye to a world that you enjoyed being in. So I am I was a big fan of this of this final season. And I think if you somehow fell off I think it would be worth coming back for this final round Beautifully said as usual, Patrick Uh Here's how I feel about the bear season five Deeply ambivalent And I will share why. Let's talk about the good things, right First of all, the idea of setting most of the season over the course of one night That's just like a really cool idea. Like I as a kind of A guy who, you know, me, David Chen, I love experiments in the formalism of filmmaking and So You know,m I'm the guy that went to go see Johnny Depp's Nick of time in theaters because it was takes place in real time. It's like, oh, wow, what a cool concept takes place in real time. you know, twenty four. I love that stuff. This episode, it's not quite real time, but it's like almost real time, right? The first, you know, batch of episodes And H I just think that is audacious to try to have that idea and be like, I'm going to make that work. L I admire that greatly Uh And I do think that This show has always been about Vibes, it's been about hanging with these characters, and do you like hanging with these characters and If you have enjoyed seasons one through four, I think you will like seeason five, right? Like That is really important, right? If you're watching this video or listening to this podcast and you liked the beare season What' before I give this season a strong recommend Uh and so Those are like some initial positive thoughts about it The negative thing that gnaws at me about the season is I feel like they really had a chance to switch up the status quo of the show in season five, right? Like season four ends with this big decision that Carmi makes and o, like what would that be like if Carby was just like external to the whole thing and it was like Richie and Natalie and Sydney that had to like make things work on their own M And the show I think at its worst has never wanted to deviate from its central dynamics. It's always wanted to be about we're worshhippping the Michelin star restaurants. And also people are fighting, but we're family and we're going to get through it together. And that has been the whole show And like I was like, oh, maybe there's a chance for them to like move beyond that to something else They didn't move beyond that. They're still doing that All that said All that said When we get to the end of season five It really got me choked up to. L I had like I despised season three of the show. I was like this I think I called it a waste of time or like insultingly a waste of time. somethingomething like that And but then we got to the end of season five, there's some there are a handful of moments. I'm not gonna like just put the plane, like Yeah there's just like they're like emotional haymakers that the show is landing. The hug. the hug. It's just like, o, like I can't that's not those moments aren't even more to talk. There's like You know, we'll talk about it momentarily I know, but like but like there's just like a handful of moments that are just it's'sray it's I think the reason we may not have an overlap there is because the show is just spraying a machine gun's worth of likeotion a machine gun of like emotional cathar you. What is your personal trauma that we're going to touch on here? and it's like here's a grenade and like your heart explodes. Okay. Okaykay. Yeah. And also like you know great, great credit to the show. No John Cina. You know what? J recognizing that let's pick one or two guest characters like that come back for like a brief moment, although Everybody but John Cena gets to basically come back at a scene towards the end. I guess he just couldn't couldn't couldn't make it. There's a lot of restraint in in that capacity. this season as well where we're really focused on for the large part, the characters we know as opposed to So much I the fact that The FA family is res restrained by the measure in which The bear allowed itself to keep expanding what it like what the facts did. It's a real testament to I think the show understanding the scope of its ambitions this season. Just the right amount of fact family exhaust Well, I also think this season brought back to me, it feels like it brought back more humor that preium much. Like this season started this show started as a acky sitcom almost about taking over a sub sandwich shop. And it completely lost that And I remember the way you described season three, I think was like the show is really enjoying sniffing its own farts. And that is often how the show has felt like for the last few seasons I want to make something clear I David Chen love fine dining I think I've eaten that like four Michionland star restaurants over the course last year. Like I'm I should be the target market for this show And even I find it to be too pretentious and up its own ass for my taste I mean, like there's there's a guy who's like joining the team like because they don' they run out of space in the restaurant. and so they sit this guy back in the kitchen and he's like, really and he's calling everyone's chef and participating. That's me. Like I'm that guy. So I love this stuff And even I'm like This is making me uncomfortable like how like worshippping you are of this because the fact of the matter is And I've talked about this like I think there is dignity in all kinds of foods that people make, right? Like like the the beef original beef sandwich shop and the Mission star like it's all wonderful in my opinion. But this rest this show has been like, we got to get the Mission star That is the thing that's the North Star.. Getting a missionions far can ruin your life You know what I mean? Like it can be the thing that is like, oh, man, we really shouldn't have tried for that or afterwards the expectations are so high and the anxiety so high. It's crossy. Whatever the cases. U I have never bought that as like a central animating factor for the show And so that's one of the reasons why this season didn't necessarily work as much on me But if you do buy it, if you're like, yes, the Michelan star is the best thing we can try to get then you're going to have a great time with the bear. You know what I mean? L I buy it I understand what you're saying. Yeah. I buy the pursuit of that as a form of emotional validation, sure for the work that you do, in which like, Is it enough to just be good at something or do you need an external force? Right to tell you Like what does it mean to make it? It's like a central question, especially of like this season of the Bear, but definitely one that carries throughout it is like what does it mean to pursue a passion, a hobby in and Just because you're good at something, does it mean you love it? And what does it mean to love something when you turn it into to your job? Eistential question I asked myself and the fourteen year old version of Patrick that decided, what if you just decided to play video games every day for the rest of your life Would that be great? Do you love ice cream every night? Oh, well, buddy Look forward to the next thirty years of of your life It would be like if the show was about acting and the goal is like they're trying to win an Oscar It's like, okay, you know U really hard to do. And also by the way, after you win it, it doesn't mean like your life is awesome forever. You know what I mean? Like And so and also Maybe the real victory is being able to take pleasure in your work regardless of external validation But whatever. I the rich rich we all need to be richy. We need to be more richy in our lifeves. Well that's the thing is like Richie in my opinion, has the most compelling the whole show. This is a show that didn't figure out that Richie was supposed to be the main character until the very end. Well I think that is a compliment to the show that it figures out that he is the most interesting character by the end because he's introduced in the story as a as comic relief. as a character that orbits and I think the Yes, the show would have been better served. Broadly speaking by having probably been in three seasons, right? I think it would have been a much. You can see everything that occurs over these five seasons and how do we compress that to three? I think we are looking at an all timer all timeer. Al. I'm just saying Richie has the most interesting arc of anyone in the show. I'm glad they don't lose it. right? Like the show did eventually recognize that gives I think Richie has the most believable relatable down to earth of any character in the show and like where he starts and where he ends. Yeah it's beautiful. It's inspiring. It's like, you, we should all aspire whatever age we are at, you can change and you can do different things. And you can expand who you are as a person like He the has the most beautiful arc of anyone on the show That is like Probably the one way that you can justify this show's obsession with the Michelin Star in my opinion is that he Richie is somebody who finds Uh, structure, right? whoo finds the ability to derive meaning for his life from the structure of like a high end restaurant. G the star the star is just a reason to run the high end restaurant. Richie gets out of the job is knowing your name. that That's right and that's right. It's it's, I don't want to swil but a scene where he's on the phone and he's supposed to be doing something and he doesn't do it because his heart is too big And it's ertainly ridiculous even for Richie to not execute what he has been asked in that moment characters sake It allows him to go on this really amazing arc. you know, the rest of the season And he cares that you have a like Yes, the bear by the end is about is viewed through the lens of fine dining. But like we learned in the show, I think maybe for the first time how much they charge for people They say one point. it's one n like they charge one hundred ninety because one hundred ninety feels like a fun night extravagant night out two hundred feels like you're getting a loan to pay for food. I would have guessed that the food is more expensive than that. I don't I haven't dined at a mission star restaurant. I'd be curious what you thought of that part of it. But also it's It's almost like the show the show doesn't really give us a lot of great sense into the clientele do get the sense that These aren't necessarily like the richest people in Chicago. Like there's a little bit of like these are Closer to everyday people upper middle class probably dressing up to have like This is not something they do very often and they' doing it here and Richie wants to make it special by knowing why you're here and what you're doing. And he takes such pride in caring that you're there.ike Fine dining is not necessarily the best foodage've ever had It's the food is becomes better because you had a great experience. The context in which you experienence the food is as important to how good like It's like a multiplier like in a pinball machine, like is the experience of who you're with and being recognized and validated.'re like, you're special, you're having a great night. We're glad you're here And then all of a sudden that that fish were like is like three X as good as it would have been and it was just serve to you in your H So I think you made a good point, which just like the Michelin star is incidental. like they could have been not trying for Michelin Star and he was just doing the high end dining and that would have been enough for him to like have this arc that he had, which is really, really compelling and very beautiful. And um, Probably the best part of the show in my opinion. In my opinion, way more interesting than Carme's arc during the show, personally U Certainly much more relatable As for one hundred and ninety dollars, that that is about like average for like a high end tasting menu. Now that does not include usually like wine or wine pairing, right? things like that. So like people may end up spending way more, you know, so two people at like one hundred ninety each plus like a bunch of wine and any other add ons and you might end up being like closer to like seven, eight hundred dollars or whatever, depending on like tax and tip and all the other things added in. Itpends. But that strikes to me as about like relatively standard for Yeah know, I personally don't know if people would uh If one hundred ninetine two hundred would actually swing a difference for most people. like if you're already going all out, I don't know if ten dollars would make that big of a difference, but you know mayaybe they have access to data on the bear client tell that I don' Regardless U Patrick, I'm glad you love this season. And I really admired it and appreciated many things about it. And at the end of the day, I was like, o you still got me. the bear You still got me. So even me a bear skeptic was taken in by the show. U in its fifth season U somebody who has like, really not liked previous seasons. I was like, okay, at the end of the day, it still kind of worked on me. So Gott to give the bear I recommend Bone upet tee That said, Patrick, let's talk about some other things that happen in the season. Let's talk about where everyone ends up Time. com had an article where everyone ends up in the series finale of the Bear Let's start with Carmi Absolutely ridiculously with Carmi, by the way. I don't even know I'm not even saying it's bad I'm just saying you have John Mulaney going in and giving him a talk like I don't know about you, but I thought he was like writing a book about his experience. S that's good. And then He just opens up about all of his kitchen trauma, which is very legitimate. and Jeremy Allen White does an amazing job. And then literally gets said like Sir, this is a Wendy But he's basically trying to intern at an architectural firm at the end of the show. And I think the the place that he ends up makes to schoolool. go to school. What do you mean go an intern an architectural firm go to the way the way so the place he ends up, I think makes sense. The way which it plays out the show is like Ridiculous in my opinion, but whatever, like, you know, but imagine the same desire but like he's in a classroom. I just think it would have land like path that it was set up for him allowed him to do a monologue. and I feels like that's why they chose it as opposed to And it's a really good monologue and it's the first time he's like acknowging a lot of the ways in which he uses the environment of the kitchen to process his own proble his own personal emotional issues. And so that's good personal growth So did that need to happen at the intern interview of a architectural firm? I don't know U But Jeremy Allen White does give a good monologue So I can't complain about. You you think it should have been in school? He's going to class something was like a professor giving a lecture? L what do you Yeah? I guess also the question to you is, do you think that's actually where he ends up I think it's Good for him to I think he has realized that at this stage of his life Being in a kitchen is worse for him than not being in the kitchen.? And that is a good moment of personal growth to realize what your limitations are and to try doing something else I actually think overall that's good. I it's had an architectal firm. like that comes out of like almost I'm sure they seeded it in somewhere in the show, but like it's not like season three where he goes to the Frank Lloyd. rightite House like I get that he likes to draw. like I thought what was being seeded through most of the show. And so then I was taken sort of taken aback by the architectural firm bit was it seemed like they were doing a lot of work straight up in storytelling, like Man, he is really creative in a bind to come up with like a solution to a problem What if you know, any and there's a, you know, a moment where she's U where his mother is like looking through like this travel, like this food book that he's made with these beautiful drawings, all these recipes come with I thought he was gonna go into R and D, which is like do go be on the creative side of food creation that is removed from the kitchen because it appears that he has a deep love, passion and creativity for food. But what brings out his worst impulses is the high pressure nature of the serving of the food. But the idea of him being in a lab just making recipes that go out And then him like going on lecture tours explain I just that seems to fit a lot more. he's what he's good at. So I thought that's where we were leading. and then the architectural firm was bit of a Fratcher kind of kind of out of nowhere. So we're in full spoilers for the Bear now, But basically, Patrick Kleck should have been running this show one of the things that I take look at In Chicago, I'm just I I have strong feelings Siddney obviously riding high after the restaurant receives two Michelin stars, by the way I don't know about you, Patrick, but it felt pretty cruel the way Carmi revealed that to her. like I was dying. I start of clocked it about halfway right and like This feels like I'm seeing too much of the writer's room where somebody was being clever. was like, okay Like what if it's like you didn't get one? You get two and the whole writer's room goes Oh my God. Did you u Did you ever watch arrest of development? Yes There is that doctor that would always speak in terrible u double entendres, right? So he would saym I'm sorry. Yes, we lost him. He got away from us. And it's like he's literally saying that he ran away the patient ran away, not that he died or It looks like he's dead, you know? And it's like, no, he's just he painted blue all over himself. likeike basasically that's Carby is the doctor from arrest development That's what I'm saying U what is? I don't think the show ever did a great The show does a decent job of conveying the weight of how prestigious it would be to a Michelin star No point because we're never really conditioned for the idea that they could get two As someone that is not really experienced in the world of findine dining You've done more this than me. What is the difference between one in two what is the delta between those What does that change in terms of I don't think they're charging one hundred and ninety dollars anymore Um, I would say that u The difference between one and two, you know, I don't have a firm grasp with this but my under like it basically Um in general terms, I would describe it as Two stars is just more special, more unique, less likely to be able to get that kind of dish somewhere else And also the level of service is just on a level that's like not not standard. basically less standard. you know, like, did they Throw a little party in the back of of the restaurant for you like because it was your kids birthday, you know, like Stuff like that, you know, kind of elevates it and But I don't have a firm grasp of the two. I would say though It is a I would say it is a substantial difference is from what I understand Okay, what else happens? Sydney obviously running the baron now. Let's talk a little bit about Marcus he Marcus was in a bad headsace spurred on by his estranged fathers solo visit to the bear. Again, reading here fromime. com It impacted his mood, his work and his relationship with Luca, turning in typically even keled good natured pastry chef into an obnox anxious Defensive liability But Marcus finds some catharsis and begins to make inroads for with his dad As he drops Luca off the airport for his return to Copenhagen, he admits he plans to spend his day in the lab attempting to create another otherworldly confection end quote Did the Marcus arc land for you at allet petroclypic Yeah. Dudes like when Dan Luca just go at it. I was like, no, not my besties. what have they do? And in front of the customers too. In front of the customers. I u Marcus really works for me because he is Like this very even keeled cool cucumber And That's a bit of a mask for the emotions that are brewing underneath in a show that is constantly with people boiling over It's like, well, would never It would never happen to him. And so when it does, I think it's very and it's otherwise a show that the conflict is not between the characters, right? Like that crescendoes at the end of season four with the big talk like the little little play that occurs outside between Richie Carmi and Sid. and in this season a lot of that is kind of set aside. In fact, there's a lot of, you know, like let's be nice to each other and speak, you know, I mean, like there's everyone is not really barking in the same way or the barking is is a result of external factors like person falling through the roof. and everyone would be wondering what the hell is going on or upset like pipes bursting and the consequences of the rain Lua like Marcus Inon is kind of the one time where we get real drama between our characters like in and the restaurant. And that's where it ends up feeling like so dense because Um There's just not a lot of that elsewhere. so I think to pick those two characters And then have that pay offff the whole spoon arc, one of my favorite little tidbits of of the entire season the run runner was very good Tina becomes the chehef de cuisine. to Cydy, which is Pretty impressive arc for that character considering she came to the restaurant with virtually There's that whole episode with her flashback and you see how she came to the job in the first place and it was H It wasn't like it was her aspiration to do this Uh I love the idea of her just kind of mastering this to the extent that she could be Sydney's chehefa cuisine and also Obviously her Brussels sprout dish coming to fruition during a critical moment in the season U Patrick don't know if you' have any thoughts on that, but no, just it's It felt like very appropriate. It's lovely. lovely and it's lovely. I mean, again, this is a show that By the end chooses Optimism Yeah or as as as conflict as as much conflict as much trauma of these characters have experienced, ultimately the bear ends up in a at a very optimistic place about It's characters, their endings, etcetera, etceta. And I gott to admit, I think there's a very easy way to have the bear arc in a different direction given how much darkness surrounds like the premise, whetherre running the bear and the beef shop and a lot of the family dynamics. The show could have veered in a different direction, but ultimately like it has chosen to be a pretty optimistic show in a era of a lot of nihilistic shows, cynical shows. and I did I just sort of appreciate that. for however unrealistic that might be for everyone's ducks to align in a row It felt like weird the counterculture to be like, what if things were good I'm like, what if people could be happy What a concept Well, there is the case of Ibrahim. so the whole thing the whole season they're trying to figure out how they can raise enough money to save the bear. And the idea is that Ibrahim has a prospectus, they're going to turn the beef side window into a Ghost kitchen with suburban locations I would say Patrick that this is a show that ends at a very optimistic place for its characters, not necessarily one for for the restaurant industry though. is kind of what I'd say because it's The way they can survive is not by maintaining this beautiful restaurant. It's by franchising out to his you know, ghost kitchens and using doorash which is kind of against the ethos of like, I'm not saying I like the ethos of the show, but It is an Eethos and it's kind of against that to be like Were going to do ghost kitchens and that's gonna surive us. That's going to make us survive. That said It is nice that Albert, the character played by Rob Reiner, who is tragically no longer with us is a critical part of saving the restaurant. and so I did think that was nice. But let's talk about Richie, Patrick Clepk. I mean, this is the one that Really got to me. And there is a moment the moments that I'm talking about, right or u The moment that like I didn't see coming Wizwin. They're doing the rack of lamb and Carmi drops the lamb on the floor and you see it shatter like eighteen times And then he starts freaking out. He's like, I messed it up. I can't I don't know what I did. I can't do it. And then Richie says, And That hit me so hard because We have seen these two characters fight for so many hours over the course of The last five seasons of television that the idea of like, hey, we got you, like we're in this together You know Richie's participation in this enterprise had allowed him to evolve to the point where he sees them all as a team It's such a beautiful moment that was the conclusion of the arrk for me. I didn't give a crap about anything came after that. L that was the moment where it's like The arc is complete. Like I feel like this is a this is great, you know Um So anyway, that was one thing that happened also By the way, shame on you show for having a freaking prequel episode where Richie is T bone and that basically doesn't really do anything to the plot obbviously, he's processing it during the course of the episode but you, U I h prefer I prefer I prefer like ultimately no it wasn't really The Indiana episode could have existed take out the accident because the accident has no consequence. the same time, the show doesn't make you relly on having seen that episode if you someomehow hadn't seen it. but I appreciate that. But then why put in the accident Yes, Like you could have just had the Indiana episode And that's fine. I really enjoyed that abbs. but just have that be that It was That was just a strange sort of decision. You know. But hey, this is a show that makes very bizarre decisions in my opinion. So anyyway, Earlier in the day, I'm reading here from timeime. comot Natalie informs him that he's been invited to an international hospitality seminar in Japan. which initially causes him to have a panic attack Richie has never left the country, let alone flown a plane Uh Luckily, Jess eases his fear of flying and journeys with him with a few subtle hand touches, all but confirming a budding romance that most of the kitchen has already sussed out Before they go, Richie, now a master of hospitality throws a surprise party for his daughter Eva convening the whole family Uh, including Bob Odenkirk, Jamimie Lee Curtis, Josh Hart and even Claire Bearear Molly Gordon. in celebratory harmony and quote. So Yeah. and he thoughtought on Richie's end petroglyphpic. couple of things. onene. It's not the emotional line of the show, but it might be it's definitely in like top five lines of the show for me is when he's explaining to Sid that he's going to go on this trip and he's really anxious because You know such ownership over the running of like the front end of the business. And it's another instance of somebody saying like We got you, like you go do go do you And it the moment when he says and like and like, you know, I'm going be there for like a week But like then also like I want to spend like all day at like this cool, like Ninja museum for an entire day. I both wanted to cry. And I'm just like bursting out laughing because like the way you just like says I want to go spend a whole day at this cool Ninja museum is one of the most heartwarm things I've ever seen. L this a character say on a television show, I was I was dying And then it's also And you mentioned the moment between Carmi and Richie in which There's like Richie's evolution as a person is meant to help bring up Carme as a person. It like everyveryone's like shooting their emotional positivity superpowers out of their arms. like we got you. L it was like was a superhero film One of my favorite bits is the Aric Carmy goes through after the conversation he has with Richie out in the rain, which is like just be a like Ask how other people are doing Like the whole reason Richie's able to come down from his panic attack is Carmie having those moments where you see the gears turning, which is like A M b empathy As how person how doing? And like his questions all sound like that like how you doing and but I really enjoy watching that because he It's not that he doesn't care about other people But he has difficulty expressing those in terms that actually are helpful or allow people to be introspective. becausecause sometimes people are feeling things and they want to vocalize it. But the only social way to vocalize it is someone asks you to vocalize it. and And I really enjoyed that moment between them in the locker you know, he does that a couple different times. And so the way that those two lifted each other up out of like to become better that people like to themselves and to the people around them, I thought that was really beautiful Indeed. byy the way, there is I had a question about like What was up with that burning field we saw So I don't know if you remember in the Gary in the episode, there's like there this burning field imagery and then there's this burning field imagery again. in the final episode and then he's looking at this photo of him and Mikey. in front of the burning field with all these people. So I was curious what this was. I Googled it and on Reddit, a user named Engine aggravating six hundred ninety nine wrote on Reddit It is a controlled burn that Richie and Mikey stopped to watch during the trip to Gary Indiana. During the flashback, you see the crew Performing the burn with extinguishers and other equipment around the edges. to make sure it doesn't spread out of control Why did they stop to watch it? Because a wave of fire slowly moving through a field is cool Why is it in the show? There's a lot of symbolism and comparisons that could be made Just a ton end quote. One of which, of course is that, you know, the Obviously these people have strong passionate personalities, right? And can you control it? Can you make it you can you direct it towards good and productive ends. The ultimate question of the show Also, I think that the sort of slow moving wave of fire that You can get past but also never outrun. It feels like the death of Mikey is like however far they get away from it If you don't deal with it It's going to catch up to you eventually Absolutely Patrocleic other thoughts. thoseose are the major characters in what happened to have been seeason five. Any other thoughts on the bear seeason five Ah. Yeah I any other the scenes that you Well like, you know, one of the last things, you know, I mentioned earlier, like the controlled nature of the ambitions of the season, right? Like Cair Bear, not there The fact that like that character was barely a character was not Molly Gordon's fault. Like she I think she was great did the best with a paper thin, you know, manic Pixie girl sort of character that the show presented her with. And I'm glad we got to meet her because the bits we get with her, which is really just Um you know, an exchange that I Carmen has with Mikey's old phone number in which like like, you know, you're right about Carebear All good. I that's great. like the time we spent with her pays off there. I wish they'd done that character a better service and given her more to do There wouldn't have enough space in this season for that to make any sense to just jam her in there. So the fact that the show recognized that. didn't include her physically except for that final cameo scene and But we still got some emotional payoff from the time that he spent with her I think was the show I wish the show had been that smart and economical about its characters earlier Um, and maybe the only way you get here is by kind of spendning out of control But it's too bad because If season three didn't exist, We probably feel a lot better about this show.bsolute abbsolutely one hundred percent. But does it get here without season three? I don't, you know, I don't know.. You know, this is a show in which is actors took off like it was lightning in a bottle U, and They try to contain it and they contain it poorly But I think it's a testament to the show that it that it did as good as I thought it did a pretty remarkable job coring itself as it guided towards the end. And so I continue to sort of praise the show for Honestly, it's lack of ambition. because it recognized what made it work in the first place. These characters in a small space dealing with shit both internally and externally And that's how season five is. and I'm I'm going to end up missing it. I'm very exited watched this show all by myself My wife asked me, like Well, how was the final season? was like Season three and four I never really feel like I wanted to watch with you or if was. It's like you can put it on and I'm gonna play a video game while the episode airs I'm going to be would locked in to watch season five. Nice again. And that's that's also buttressed by the fact that I mean, every time I started an episode, it was like, twenty six minutes as I weird So many things are wrong in society, but this This is good. This is good. Uh One thing I want to mention, by the way, I want to praise Christian Lundberg who wrote the score for the episode or the season. Great Ppulsive. Synthy score. I actually added it to my, you know, Apple Apple music Uh it's actually kind of bullshit in my opinion that it's like Score produced by Honan Zimmer. No one gives a shit who produced score Han Zimmer. is this another one of those like Zimmer' gonna get the credit, but actually somebody else did the music? I'm watching the credits and I'm pretty sure Han Zimmer's name comes up before Christian Lumberg's did. This happens a lot with Zimmer in Yes. and I don't know if this is The people running this company or he's doing it but this happens a lot where you I saw articles. Yeah. ye. I was reading one of my the message boards that I read, people are telling like really like a soundtrack. Like't it's crazy that Zimmer took the time to do this. And like he didn't Yeah. and it said like score produced by Hunzer. I'm like What a weird credit and I look into it, of course it's Christian Lumberg. But check it out the beare season five scorts available on your streaming platforms And it is it's awesome. So has a for a hot second, I thought it was a Trent Resinner or like Aticas Finch. Right has a little bit of that synthy rock sort of feel. No needle drops whatsoever. I think it's a great choice to do to Switch that up for the final it actually creates a different sort of Sonic landscape that just feels You don't really knowice the difference It doesn't point it out When I was reading about, I was like,ah, no meal drops this season. Like huh Okay, didn't notice, but I love the way the music is incorporated this season I think the most interesting read on the bear, I mean I will just start by saying To me, the journey is worth it just to see Richie's story The Gink It's Richy story and if you can see, if there's no other storylines like Richy story, that would be great and satisfying in and of itself. The journey's worth it I think to me, the most interesting read of the Bear is The bear is a show about its own creation and It started as a show that was about, hey, someone taking over this sand sub sandwich and how stressful that was. Then the show won like I'm going to say something like eighty nine E No, I mean a good Jillian Emmy like It got tons of Emmies bestowed upon it U And then like seasons two and season two, it's really starting to feel its strength and it's like we're going to really go for it. We're going to get Bob Odenkirk in the show and we're going to like get Jamie L Curtis and we're going to talk about like the big emotions and the family and how those dynamics that trauma plays into the kitchen and so on And then it just became Number one obsessed with its own lore, right? Obsessed with like, Restaurants are like the most beautiful things in society. And by the way, me, David Chen, I actually like believe that. but like Tone it down a little bit. you know, you don't need to like go all out like that Um But like restaurants, aren't they so beautiful? And it's God's greatest creation on earth. And like and that's why all these characters are pursuing and the Michelin star is so important, blah, blah, blah, right?. of is that Um It not only became obsessed with its own lore and mythos of like the restaurant But became terrified of doing anything else other than what it was doing Right? Like Oh, the characters need to keep fighting because like that's what won us the Emies is was what the characters was fighting and So then they didn't grow and they didn't move on for many, many, many, many, many episodes Uh and And you get that sense in this season when Sugar says, I'm not ready for this to be over yet, right? Like the show has overstayid its welcome. It didn't I don't believe it won any Emm'ies last season, right? it's People are not talking about the show nearly as much anymore. It has worn out its's welcome. Right? It has become U less popular largely because of its nothing happened in season three and four. But the show's like, I'm not ready for it to be over yet. Like I don't want this to end. like we need to keep going And so again, it's like echoes of the show itself, the show itself of like they need to keep going, even though like even though everythingone's long gone, like they need to keep going U To me, that's what the most interesting reading of this show is. It's like It's a show about its own creation and grappling with what it means to have a small show become a huge prestige TV hit. And then not being able to really know what to do with it Those are my thoughts. I just had one. I was gonna let it go the first time. I too I can't let it go a second time. What No one would classify the beef as a sub sandwich. Thank you. Well, correct me, correct me. How would you describe? No, they serveef. They serve it Italian beef. Yes, like the former that could look if you into a sub sandwich. I understand I just the first time I was like, it's fine they wouldn't subbs same shot. Then he said it again, I just needed as a As a local, I just needed to step in and just acknowledge. I feel like someone would have written in and been like, I canot believe Patrick allowed that to pass. Please. I don't want to I don't want to mess. So what would it would just be an Italian beef Yeah it's a's bef shop. Yeah. beef shop.f shop.. A P shop. No, it's okay. I just I just want I just I may not be from Chicago, but I' close enough that I had to. I feel bas them I feel like I was like really delivered a really good argument I think the thing is they probably also served sub sandwiches there. likeike which I get, I get it. I get it. but they're presenting themselves as mister Beef and so really Yeah. it'd be like you know, it's like when you go to a you know, as u u An any sort of restaurant, they also have a burger. It's like, okay, but they're not, you know You really so much under there, Patrick, but that's okay. I just I appreciate. I don't be wr, I'll be right. Those are our thoughts on the beef. Uh, Oh, sorry, the bear The bear season five And this has been decoding TV. Next weeks show of the week is going to be silo season three Patrick Clepp at Casino episodes I skpp season two. I'm gonna get right back into it and see what happens. Im got to catch up. That's see right see what happens. You're not gonna like season two We'll talk about Silo seeason three premiere next week. that'll be a show of the week. And of course we'll continue our Dark Matter We watchatch Thank you for watching or listening to our review of the Bear season five Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why drivers have enjoyed prorogressives name Y prrice tool for years now. With the name Your Price tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options Visit progressive. com. Find a rate that works for you with the Name Your Price tool. Progressive Casualty inssurance compomany and affiliates, Price and coverage match limited by state law It's smart to always have a few financial goals, and a really smart one you can set, earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can this, Discover automatically matches all the cashback you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it, and we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover d. com slash credit card ic, Let's move on Let's talk about TV news this week. couple of big stories to discuss. The first one is cast to split NBC Universal and cable operations into two companies. We to hear from variety. com omcast just months after shedting most of his cable TV business into ersant media is now again cleaving itself into two separate companies, one housing its namesake cable and tech operations, and the other comprising the NBC Universal and Sky Media business lit will create two quote unquote focused industry leaders, each with significant scale, strong private financial profiles, and distinct strategic opportunities. The media conglomerate said, Comcast is targeting mid twenty twenty seven to consummate the separate the separation, but it's boilerplate disclaimer noted that there can be no assurance that the proposed transaction will be completed or if completed as to its terms or timing Now Patrick Klubick, I have read I'm going to say a dozen articles about this topic and I can't seem to find any consensus whatsoever as to what is actually going to happen. There there are some people that say, oh, this clelearly setting up NBC Universal in the skky for a M andA they can get acquired by Netflix. they can get acquired by Apple. And then I read articles saying, no, that's actually stupid. Why would whyy would Netflix want to acquire Universal Studios? Why would Netflix want to acquire Pacock, the least popular streaming service doesn't make any goddamn sense What is clear, I think, is that Comcast, like many, many other companies in the past have decided that The content slash media production arm. of its company makes more sense separate than together for many years We were fed the lie by these corporate executives who enriched themselves to the tune of billions of dollars. Hey, we own the pipes. We should also own the content. Hey, we're A andT. We should also own Warner Bothers. Hey, we're Ccast. We should also doesnn't it make sense for us to own the stuff that's going through the pipes And it never really makes like the synergies never materialized If you bought Comcast stock, ten years ago You would have the same amount of money today that when you bought it And so it's like the synergy' never materialized It didn't never really made sense as a business and so kind of acknowledging. let's let NBC Universal go off and its own All that said, Patrick Clepic, curious, what you think about this? I do think, by the way, a somewhat similar dynet. like a little bit of a similar dynamic is now happening with like Microsoft deciding to like spin off a bunch of its Uh, video game studios. shouldould that be what happens next week? But I'm curious, ye, what you make of this? What what do you think is going to happen with Comcast spinning off atBC Universse don't know. U I sort of see it feel like it came out of nowhere, but, you know, you look you follow these trends long enough The corporation is chase one another, right? Like thing becomes trendy. like everyone is becoming bigger And now it's trendy to become small. And so is that because actually it's the better thing to do or all like All the money people are like, Well, they're doing it Well we should stop getting bigger. We should get we should divide. like that's what we should do because that's what the other. So it's like very difficult to like Obviously it makes like just on its face. you don't have to go to business school to understand It's got to be hard. It's harder to move a bigger ship Um, if one part of the ship is is leaky it can take down or hurt the entire enterprise. The idea of like being smaller and more nimble allows you to specialize in the things that you're good at. And if you are looking to be acquired It is much easier to be acquired as a separate entity Absolutely and one that is being So I think what might be happening here is similar to as you mentioned, discussions with Microsoft and Xbox You know, there have been hypothetical scenarios where Xbox would become its own company that's like wholly owned by Microsoft, like GitHub, like the open source platform. is is its own company that is wholly owned. by Microsoft. So this may just be Comcast looking at the long term trends where The best part for like their core business. is not all this stuff is actually somebody else owning that stuff down the line and it makes me wonder what the future is something like peeacock is going abbsolutely something that Comcast has never really understood what to do with. And maybe it's not a shock that a moment like this comes after The Olympics have wrapped up and which like Pacock's biggest moment in the years. u is has passed us Maybe now it's time for somebody else to figure out that that fits their portfolio better than does for Yeah Ccast Ttally Uh They now they have said, hey, we have no M andA plans like the leaders of the company have said no M andA plans, likeike we're not planning to sell this off Of course, that could be just them lying because they want to come at this from a position of straint. like We don't need to be sold, like Oh, you want to come bu by us? You need to produce an extremely good offer, right? So Who knows U, but I'm just going to put this out there ro probablyably not gonna to be good whatever happens next, just based on literally everything that has happened in society over the course of our lifetimes So you do wonder, you know, is something like this somethingomething like a Netflix would eventually be interested in after Warner Brosers passes them by, which is getting into more of a studio business, owning a theme park where you can have extensions. They have said they want to do more they're doing more experiential things. Like some people are like they would never buy them because why would they want a theme park? And my reaction is they literally have moved heavily into in person activations and you know, elaborate in person events and so on. The business is already running, right? Like it's a proven model the universal stuff has done really well with it It's one of their most profitable divisions as well. So it's like it's it's really not, I don't think that wild to imagine post flirtation with Warner Brothers that A grou something like this could seem very like if you're if you're coming the comcast where is all the money in the future? The money like the big acquisitions are going to come from tech giants and Netflix. while they produce movies and televion shows, like is is kind of a tech like a modern tech giant in in many ways. They would have the the capital They don't want to buy comcast or they wouldn't be allowed to buy, even in our environment, probably they wouldn't be allowed to buy comcast. Nor could they afford it? Could they afford this? probablyrob? And like Would it be crazy that they'd want to build like you know, a stranger Things land down in Universal? Like, no, I'm not saying they're going to do it. They're the kind of company that I think would make sense for totally for tootally. Plus, Netflix getting into live sports. you dec acquire NBC sports and peacocks, stuff like there's there are synergies there that that would make sense for a company like Netflix or an Apple We'll see Patrick. Let's check back in five years and see where we are House of a Dragon seeason three debuts of twenty one point five million viewers in three days down slightly from season two. So according to variety dot com, the season three premiere of House of the Dragon Wreacked up twenty one point five million global viewers In its first three days of availability, according to Warner Brothers Discovery, that total represents a slight decrease of eight percent fromrom the three day viewership total achieved by seeason two preremier The second season managed to cross twenty three point four million viewers in three days Although it should be noted that season three is competing for viewership with the FFAorld Cupquote. I just got to say this patrocipic. in my opinion The first two episodes of season three of House of the Dragon have been some of the best game of Thrones or certainly the most epic, ambitious Game of Thrones related television ever. And I understand that for a variety of logistical reasons, it wasn't possible to put these at the end of season two. But if you imag they had like sending us out of season two with these episodes. likeike the season three hypothetical view like viewership would be off the charts. It think be like I think people are going to be jumping on the train. I think I wouldn't be shocked if numbers start going up on season three as people to like, oh shit, it's back and it's really good. Yeah because It turns out they had a great ending Like we say we I don't want to I'm not to spoil those episode two. but The ending of episode onene is like That would have been quite a way to go out as you waited for season three. Then episode two happens you're like, Oh my I would have thrown something at the screen. Like the final like two shots is literally feels like it was scripted of like chehef's kiss see you in two years I Yes. you're going to be I would have wanted to seeit in movie theater. I'd have lost my mind. like it would have been incredible. So anyyway Gives me gives me a lot of faith for the like It has reinvigorated my faith in the storytelling for the show the stuff that was taken the stuff that was in their hands. feels very good. The stuff that was taken out of their hands is frustrating. Patrick, before we wrap up our TV new segment, we a couple of AI stories that I wanted to get your take on. First of all, I wanted to mention that According to variety comot nearly one thousand actors, agents and more sign open letter against Major Studio demanding child actors allow their voices to be used for AI Nearly one thousand actors, talent agents, parents, others have signed an open letter organized by the Agents of Young Performers Association This week, condemning contract clauses that mandate children sign their voices over to be used by AI deeadline reported Hasbro has done with Pppa Pig. E quote. I did not think that Pppa Pig would be a key pawn in the AI Wars But here we are Related to this Reading here from the Hollywood Reporter, Willie Walker competition show at Netflix uses AI to recreate Genan Wilder's voice. Netflix has unveiled a first look at its forthcoming competition show based on Willy Wonka Michanka Factory and also a first listen which might be the key element here titled Wonk' the Golden Ticket, The unscripted show uses the recreated voice of actor Genene Wilder who played Willy Wonkin in the nineteen seventy one movie as a key part of the game Netflix and Eureka Productions, which is buying the Golden Ticket, got permission from Wilder's Estate and worked with AI company Eleven Labs to recreate the late actor's voice, end quote The Gene Wilder estate is delighted by his usage in this, like Oh I they are. They're thrilled that Ge Maler can live on in this Wonka's Glden ticket show, which is kind of a squid game style competition show that's going to be on Netflix Copic What do you think about Genean Welder Having an AI recreated voice in Netflix's new series That's based off of the Charlie M Chalcoa factorory movie The estate should be ashamed of themselves. That is it's grotesque to sign off. Yeah, they're delighted to catch the check from Netflix Um I have Let play let me play Dvilsvocage.rick. R right. Let's say You passed away But Y family could use your like they could make AI Patrick Klepig Narrate game trailers. Are they having trouble putting food on the table Is this what I'm to assume about the wilder state I don't know. I don't know, but I' I'm sorry. like okay, let's say yes. Let's say yes. Let's say they're having trouble, you know, That's not what this is though. This's not what this is Oh, should my family use all means possible Eethical and immoral to eat and not starve I don't know. I guess I'll have to think about that one day see where see where I fall fall. So you're saying so you're saying it's okay if the if the wilder state is in poverty state, but otherwise I think that is yes. I think you could find better ways to honor the reason you have the it's called an estate It's called an a state David, it's called an state. The F fact that it's called an state implies you're doing okay. Yeah Yes, yes. Yes. And so that that part, I mean, It's just it's it's frustrating and it's the extension to the child actor versation with Pup of the Pig. That one is even more monstrous just because absolutely. obbviously there are parents involved in this, but it's like the idea of making a decision about locking in and licensing away your voice an extraordinarily young age It just shouldn't be. like allowed. like that is the kind of thing that legally should should shouldn't be possible like IMO Um that' shoulds just be one of those things where like you are quite literally legally incapable of signing over the rights to your voice until you are you know, eighteen or something like that. Like its it should be something where It can only be done with informed adult consent and a parent plenty of history of parents making poor decisions on behalf of their children Again, the decision should be taken out of their hands you know, and part of it's the perpetuity part, right? Like it's signing off to a family like, hey Our seven year old doesn't want to spend a week in a VO booth recording lines for your theme park or whatever, like, all right I got my qualms ethically morally with this technology, but You might be making a decision on the part of your child, which is like I also just don't want them to keep like I can see a different version of that. But the idea that it's in perpetuity. Yeah cannot continue to get paid equitably for for the work that is where, especially when children are concerned It feels like there should be it shouldn't be a conversation on the table. It should just be legally. It is taken off and you want that, you want the access to that voice. If you want to use it for the AI You got to come back. You got to pay again. It's residuals. It's like a renegotiation, not something where you just lock in it for the rest of eternity aggreed on all accounts about the child actors. and child actors in Hollywood is in some ways an inherently abusive industry. and there's many stories that have been written about that With regards to the Willy Walka thing I find it to be ghoulish personally. like it's hugely off putting to me to watch the trailer and hear Gene Wealildderer's AI recreated voice Um, I also I'm of two minds about it Patrick because I think an estate or the family should be able to do whatever. Like if Gean Wilder was like had said Do whatever you want with my voice, right? If he said, if he had that wish then the estate should be able to monetize that however they want. I think it's sad for society that peopleople are eating this shit up or that they like this in any way, but that's like less of a commentary on their state' decisions and more about society valuing endless nostalgia over creating new things. The question is do they actually value that? I thought I don't think the voice sounds particularly good. Like it's a decent approximation of Je Wilder. Also Who is the nostalgia for? L I don't know who it's for. Well it's it's strange, right? Because like is this really that beloved of a thing? I guess, right? I mean, it is in like the grand scheme of things, but like enough to do this. I don't Like, you know, when when James Rll Jones signed off, like, you know, he right that makes more that makes more sense than this I would say, rightight? Yeah. like Darth Darth Vader. I that is an iconic, you know Legendary character, right? Yeah. I may still my hes to it, but like also like he signed off on it before his death. like like there's a I assume we'll see more of that, right? Like as actors you know with like really well known characters. I think they'll you'll end up getting these sort of, you know signature one off deals rather than always being an estate thing, but I guess I look at it mostly like it feels lazy. L you could have like there are many other ways to do this that are more interesting. and This is like the most ish way to go about implementing it. So I guess I can't really blame anyone involved for taking the laziest route possible That's the society that we live in now but I don't expectain anyone to not watch the Willy Wonka showh. I think it's a decent reality show because of this. It's mostly just it's a missed opportunity to do something more interesting And I think we are entswering a an erow society where peopleeople are just going hit the button until someone tells them One last story I want to mention Patroclopic. Jack Quid has joined the voice cast of Invincible. And he will be in season five and season six has already been renewed. Quade will play gravitator And a first look was shared at the NSC Animations Film Festival this last week Uh Just kind of cool that Ininciable going to be around for at least two more seasons. I loveved you know when people can depend on a show coming back and also Jack Wade I mean, I don't know they're crossing streams a little bit, right? becausecause He's He's not going to be on two prime video shows that deal with misanthropic superheroes Uh, so We'll see how that plays out. I'm a little worried that the JackQuade backlash is coming. Um He at least in my orrbit of interest, he's everywhere, right? likeike he has a profit bl in the new God of warar game. He's invincible. I know he's a voice actor by trade, so it makes sense that A lot of times folks like that can appear in more things because I'm not I'm not trying to say a VO booth isn't isn't real work, but like it's a little easier than like, you know, having to show up to to a place and be on set for a year and a half and 'm just worried. I like Jack Quite a lot. He's little one note Like but when he's good, he's good. So I actually expect him to be quite excellent and immidible I would actually dispute the notion that he's one note. I mean, I'll be honest. when I first saw Jack Quid in the Bys season one, I thought I'm not really into this guy. He's got a very punchable face. He's kind of like an annoying character Uh, not not really like feeling the Jack Quid vibe. But then he starts making really interesting filmmaking decisions like or sorry, choice of project decisions like He was obviously one of the main characters in a scream movie. I thought he did wonderfully in that And also in companion And I would say he plays against type in movies like that. And so he's making interesting choices. artistically, in my opinion. And so like I have come to really admire him and what he's putting out into the world. And so like I hope I hope he delivers us something interesting in invincible season five But yes I mean, there was a time period like I want to say last year when Nova Kane came out that he was like he was in every single thing that was happening and I could totally understand being overloaded We'll see how he does in invvisciible seeason six And five by step. That is going to bring us the end of TV newews this week This episode is sponsored by ZockDoc. Have you been putting off a doctor's appointment or need a dentist and you don't know where to start We've definitely been there and that's why we use ZockDoc Actually, over the holidays, Michael had a dental emergency and seemingly every office was closed, but we hopped ono ZakDoc, found an in network dentist, had great reviews, saw real time appointments available, which was key. It was on New Year's Day, and booked an appointment in just minutes. It took so much of the stress out of the already stressful situation ZockDog makes it easy to search and compare over two hundred fifty thousand local in network providers across more than two hundred specialties. so you can find the right doctor or dentist and book instantly Taking care of your health just got easier, download the ZockDoc app today and book that appointment on your to do list. That's ZOC DOC ZockDoc. It's smart to always have a few financial goals, and a really smart one you can set, earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can this, Discover automatically matches all the cashback you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it, and we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover d. com slash credit card Before we get to our conversation about Dark Matter season one episode two this week You want to let people know where they can find more of your work on the internet You can't hear me on remap this week because we're taking the july fourth a week off, but that's because we just finished celebrating our three year anniversary of radio And part of the way we celebrated that was getting together at my colleague Rob Zackney's place in Boston, where we streamed from his living room and played predominantly a lot of different digital golf video games. And so we want to see You know twenty plus hours us screwing around in front of a camera, playing a lot of different digital golf video games. Highly recommend a demo for a game called Normal golf game. It's available on steam now You might be shocked to learn that it's not particularly normal, but it is very good. You can check all that out at reippero. com or wherever podcasts are available. And also I run Crossplay, a newsletter about parenting in video games, where recently I celebrated the fact that the Bluey video game patched in full voice acting for the entire game U a lot of family friendly or children's focused video games tend to not actually voice everything in the game and it makes it difficult for someome of its target audience If you have to ask a parent to help you read the video game that is meant for the child, then something is misaligned. And so I like the fact that The Bluey team went back and patched in full voice acting so that if you're a younger child who is either struggling or not quite a fully competent reader you can navigate the game fully on your own, which which is great. So you can check that out over at crossplay. newews Three years, man, Patrick. I remember when you were getting that project off the ground, that was about the time we started intersecting and you doing this podcast regularly. But congrats on Making it this far in a very challenging media industry. All right, folks, I do want to remind people next week we'll be discussing silo season three Agst my better judgment, but hey, you know, let let's see what happens. See if it's interesting conversation. We'll also be continuing our conversation about Dark Matter. season episode three will be our next episode that we'll be discussing In the meantime, let's get to it Dark Batter episode two here we When he regains his full presence in mind, every change Um head trauma CT scan says no Maybe it's like some kind of multi tiered Deep thick pumpking. Within five hours the entire inside of his house inovated I'm just saying different pictures on the walls. I'm saying new furniture, new appliances, light switches and move Walls of different colors. No prank could possibly be this complex. I mean, what would be the point? Oo how much yellis is this man on? That seems like a determining factor Okay, then I It sounds like he's craz I'm not crazy Welcome to dececoding TV's coverage of Dark Matter season one episode two. We are rewatching every episode of the Apple TV series in preparation for Dark Matter season two coming out at the end of August I' David Chenn here with Patrick Lepp. wantanted to acknowledge a couple pieces of feedback from last week's episode before we get started with today's. First of all, Patrick Clubick, you leted me a straay in. During that episode, you said the village tap bar was a real bar. This is a bar that's depicted in dark matter Not a real bar But it is shot near Logan Square. The location where they shot it is near Logan Square. And there is a Logan Theater sign that appears in the background, which is a real place. Yes. I don't know if you got that mixed up or what you were I found something was Village Tap and it looked approximate to Yeah But some people wrote into decoding TV at gmail d. com with that correction, so thank you for that Uh But yeah, let's let's get to it, Patrick. Let's dive right into this episode So season one episode two of Dark Matter And I so we're going to spoil the episodes, so you should assume we're spoiling it for this point for. But you know, I kind of set this up. I kind of called my shot. and I said, Hey, Patrick There's a shocking moment in season two that that makes me lock M me lock into this show Uh You have now seen the episode Did you also lock in or was this just kind of another normal episode of the showrey Well, it made for interesting framing, personal framing for the episode, knowing that you had set me like, hey, there was just there's a moment in here where I sat in my chair and' like, okay, now really interested to watch the show. So I'm watching the entire episode.orry I'm sorry I don't No, no, no, no, no, no, no I was beginning to get stressed out. I'm like pausing the show. Not that I'm not enjoying the episode,. There's a lot to like in the second episode. I really do think the show sort of comes into form in a lot of different ways in the second episode. It makes sense that when the show debuted, Episodes one and two were released together. I think it But it acts as a complete sort of introduction to the story That said, like I'm pausing and I'm Is this the like I mean, yeah, this is kind of a cool moment. L is this the moment that David loghed in? L I don't I don't know. And There was a moment that I almost texted you while I was on the fight. like Yeah, this must have been it, man. I get it. And like I only sort of got it. I was like And it's when clip that people just heard where Our main character is telling a story like a hypothetical. it's like, Ohh, I wonder like this is I think this might be the moment And then it passed, I went, I don't think guess I could have in the moment. And then the epode goes the episode goes. And then And some kissing happens and I'm like, ooh is this? Mbe this is the moment. like Yeah that is interesting. likeike w Oh wow. yeah, okay. all right. locked in. And then the episode keeps going. We get to literally The last ten seconds of the episode and an event occurs. I go, Oh. now I get it. Now I get it. That's okay. I think basically I think that has to have been and when I when I texted you, you you can love That was the moment. I was like, Okaykay, now this It was crystal clear. It was just stressful because the crystal clear moment came ight before the cut to black. Right. Well, I didn't want to spoil when it would happen. No. know I know But I actually think I would have preferred to have known it was in the last thirty seconds. Yes. Well, next time, I'll keep that in mind. Okay, so yes, we're gonna to spoil what happens, right? U Jason meets an alternate version of his wife named Danilla and starts telling her about the life they live together in his universe And then at the very end of the episode Velocity security just completely executes her in cold blood which I was just so stunned by that they would introduce because Jennifer Conolly, like big name actor, they introduce this version of the character who I'm like, oh, this is like a cool, compelling version of this character. And then she's like literally famous in this universe, right? And then for them to just like kill her right out the gate. I was like Wow, that is bold Yes. I thought that was a bold decision Yeah, so did you have the same reaction metric or I did because they really lulled you into a sense of false security like right before when it's like Wh is spicy? He's He's going to have sex with his wife from a different dimension. like like o. And when I was talking about I need the show to step beyond the basic premise and use the advantage of television storytelling to further explore this idea of being sort of a dimensional traveler That is the kind of stuff that I was looking for. It was like, o o that is delicious and spicy and weird this is where're what we're doing in the second episode. I cannot wait to see ight whereere we go from here Like what are the implications of having sex with this woman who like doesn't actually know you, but in your reality with your wife Yeah, I feel for everybody involved so I sort of to see how we got here Uh But then to have that taken away so abruptly. Yeah is It's like you gave me one episode of building a little safety net for my character in this other dimension. and now we're going to immediately remove it just it's the show I you know, we've talked this before. I love when shows O than shows, games, all sorts of stories are unafraid. to rip out a good idea. Yeah in service of getting to the next one. totally This was something that was genuinely interesting enough to probably drive an entire season of storytelling. like as immediately I'm telling a story in my head like, all right So he's going to spend more time here. He's going to build the box, find the box He's going kind of fall in love with a different version What if she gets pregnant? over the course of Okay, I see the arc. I see where this season is going. Yeah then the show literally pulls out a gun and goes, Bam, that part that season is not gonna happen. Okay. Well, now he needs to get the fuck out of this dimension AsSAP and so it just introduces a possibility space for the storytelling Yeah. I'm very excited about because it feels like anything is now on the table And anything can be thrown out really, really fast, which is just an exciting place to be. It's like that's what Sci fi allows you to do. So lean into it and it feels like the show is going to lean into that. You know that better than I do, but that It left me in a much more excited place for the ambitions of this season than I did at the end of the first episode, which felt very This could be cool But I need to see the cool And here I saw the Well, I hope the show lives up to that, but yeah, even I remember my first experience watching the show is being like, whoa, I mean, youve put it so beautifully, very eloquently. you know, I don't know that I had all those thoughts, but it was I felt those things of like Yeah know, I'm like oh, o, so it's gonna be it's gonna be two of them because they're kind of like going on little adventures in this episode. So oh, it's just gonna to be the two of them and like learning about each other and then wham she's dead. It's like, o, ho you know, so U Anyway, no ambiguity. no ambiguity. Like I saw the body. like that lady saw the body fucking dead is dead. They pan back over just to reaffirm to you because sometimes, you know, if there was if the character for the corporation, like just shot her and like cut to blacks like right? Like I've seen this before like right She's get like she's they're probably going to bring her to the corporation and like that like then he's going to have to help her escape from there. No. it's like Pan. bullet in the forehead. like that person blinking coming back.. No pupil response. I appreciate some some confirmation in my shows. Well, that's the thing too, is like the show knows that they need to deliver that too. L it's like shows a level of competence that I think really inspired my trust early on. Okay Let's talk about some of stuff happened this episode. I'm going to read from the Wiki Peter Platzeray and then we'll talk about a few things. I also have some book comparisons at the end that you know, I'm going try to bring three, four, five big book comparisons every episode. So you can join along with the book if you're reading Blake Crouch's book Dark Matter or just watch Along with the show The velocity team scrambles to find JSason number one while he checks himself into a hospital, where he learns that he is a renowned physicist who has not been seen in public for over a year And there is aster mysterious psychoactive compound in his system Escaping impending psychiatric confinement, he manages to track down Daniella. Now a successful artist at her latest art exhibition When Jason, Ryan, and Daniella talk after the show at Daniella's house, she tells Jason number one that he, in fact, the other Jason, Jason number two, approached her before his disappearance and confided his regrets regarding ending their relationship long ago and the possibility that she would never see him again Despite being puzzled and concerned Danieela agrees to help Jason number one resolve the discrepancies he has identified in his life and environment Let's just talk a little bit about this like As you're watching this show, I mean, I think you probably already figured out like what's going on. He's in this alternate universe. There's a different version of Daniella. like What did you make about how that all played out with the Daniella reveal I think he was really fun because the shit like the character like Jason is just sort of lurching from one spot to the next. watching him not even charm his way into the art exhibition, but just sort of because of the nature of the kind of character he is in this in this world is able to you know, get in by sheer just sort of happenstance. All that is really And just watching him navigate the surprises and he's not in good at it. Like there's nothing suave about him. I do think there're often in these stories I don't know. L you end up getting a more confident character and like here, right's he's kind he's a dumbass. Like I have no confidence in his ability to successfully navigate this. Like he just seems like like a totalally incompetent buffoon. and the most relatable moment is like halfway through the art thing where he's just like got a giant thing of whiskey and he's like, I don't know, man. like this is bad and all that really watchatching him just sort of bumble his way through is Really one of my favorite parts of the show so far Yeah, I really liked how the art exhibit thing played out because he goes and he introduces himself and then Um You know, the person at the art exhibits U, hold on for a second and then goes check the Oh, I'm so sorry Like I didn't recognize you. And you know, it just it played out very realistically as to what happened in the situation. Of course, we then learn that she based the whole art exhibit around him Right? Like you see his images on the wall. and even though they haven't seen each other for a long time U she's he's stuck with her in her mind. Danilla, I mean And then we see this version of Daniele. that is somehow, by the way, even hotter than Jennifer Connlly from the first universe Um We get to see her all dressed up, like, you know what I mean? Like? Well, her hair, her hair is different too. like it's That's how you know she's The Danieela from Jason two's universe. she has the longer hair And then the shorter housewife hair is with the others and that is That's what Jason two was He wanted to he was going for the less hotter version and more obtainable version of Jennifer Caway, really. And like the flip side of that is like Jason two having sort of the his own reaction, like when he walks in, he's like, o Got a son Fuck Oh this sucks. At least appears like sort of his initial response is like, Oh, son of a bitch. I just wanted to have sex with this woman. I have that to deal with as well Yeah. do enough research on this dimension. But also it feels like he's been there for a while. Yeah in moment. He's done the research like he's because early on in in the first episode, he's like writing down all of Jason's activities. He's been following them for quite a while. still seems taken aback by the like when he walks into the room there's a real like hands shitting moment. I'm like, Oh man, I a child. Well, I think you can have that reaction he can be following them and still have that reaction of like, ye, I guess, I guess I got to deal with this Um Maybe this is a good point to talk about some of the differences of the book, Patrick Lubick. I have a question. Yeahs I want to ask something about You can get to it at the end. I just want to play the seed. What you mentioned something interesting last timepe of where you were at in the page count of the book in the the end of the first episode. I'm curious if you can make that part of this segment is like Be if it wast point, I want to try and like jump on, but I also don't w want to spoil the story Like at this point, I'm invested in learning the story through the medium of the television show and then Do experience it like you are. So like I'm trying to figure out where I should hop on. And so'm keep me up to date on and the audience up to date where you're at in the in the book I will say that it is not exact one to one you know, because so the u U the way the show does it is it cuts between the two realities, right? Whereas in the book, it's more closer to like one chapter is like one reality and another chapter is another reality know So it's not like exact It's and I'm not even being precise in how I'm describing right, but I will tell you that roughly The end of episode two is the end of chapter five in the book And there are fifteen chapters in the book Okay. so Uh So it's about a third, not quite, you know, because some of the chapters at different lengths, but like it's about a third of the way through the book. that we are at the as of the end of episode two. by the way, there's nine episodes So and I have not read the like Im I'm actually going along with, you know, I'm not I haven't read the book already. I'm like going along with the show. So I'm also learning some things through this process I do think that You know, usually I try to save the book differences for the end, but I do think it would be interesting to talk about some of these big differences right now One of the big differences between the show and the book is The book is just much more existential about life in general and like how easy it is to lose everything. likeike you're in Jason's head. It's whole from first person perspective. And so hes he's like, I lot, you know Two days ago I lost everything like at this point in the story, his whole family's gone, his you know, what he's like two days ago, I lost everything. It's interesting the way they describe the Ar exhibit. It's like it's this labyrinth and it has five different choices instead of three in the show, it's much more cam fisted and like on the nose of I don't know if you know this Patrick The art exhibit represents what the show is trying to say, right? Like it's much more like obvious what the connection is. In the book, he enters this kind of labyrinth with five possible entryways And I'll read a chap portion for the book. This is from page eighty five While I can see others in the labyrinth, it doesn't feel like we're in the same room or even the same space. they seem worlds apart and lost in their own vectors. I'm struck for a fleeting moment by the overwhelming sense of loss. Grief or pain But something more primal a realization and the terror that follows it terror of the limitless indifference surrounding us I don't know if that's the intended takeaw from Daniela's installation, but it's certainly mine. We're all just wandering through the tundra of our existence, assigning value to worthlessness When all that we love and hate, all we believe in and fight for and kill for and die for is as meaningless as images projected onto plexiglass At the labyrinth's exit, there is one last loop. A man and a woman each hold the tiny hand of their child as they run together up a grassy hill under a clear blue sky. with the following words slowly materializing on the panel This is a quote from Mark Twain Nothing exists All is a dream God, man, the world, the sun, the moon, the wilderness of stars. A dream, all a dream. They have no existence. Nothing exists to save empty space. And you are not you You have no body, no blood, no bones You are But a thought So that is wow. Butch bkay Right? Like I' like uch darker and bleaker, right than the show. You know what I mean Well, and I I actually think again, I ha nevert read the book, but I sort of like in the show so far, not having access to his interiority other than what's on his face and what he's able to I feel like I'm going on a more natural journey with the character. I get I get what the book. I get what they're saying there Yeah. I sort of like that I have to read b read his reaction to what's going on on his face. rather than I mean, I would say very little of that is in the show. Like the show is focused more on like, hey, it's different choices and your life turns out differently. And this is more like Men like this is all meaningless like it's a huge difference The other thing I want to say is u When He sees Danlla for the first time. Here's what it says. It's actually a lovely passage In proximity, she's electric so sparkling with life that I have to restrain myself from calling out her. likeike he sees her for the first time at the exhibit This is Danieela with an energy like the first time we met fifteen years ago Before years of life, the normalcy, the elation, the depression, the compromise transformed her into the woman who now shares my bed Aazing mother. Amazing wife, but fighting always against the whispers of what might have been My Danilla carries a weight and a distance in her eyes that scare me sometimes This Danilla is an inch off the ground And I thought the show did a wonderful job of like kind of translating that into like reality. You're like, oh, this is a very different version Jennifer Coley's charac. Soon couple other differences. I'll save those to the end. anyway, let's continue on with the plot summary. So Jason realizes that the past between the Jons diverged when Daniella became pregnant when Jason one decided to stay and Jason two decided to leave Meanwhile, despite initially struggling, Jason two settles into his blissful life with Daniella and Charlie suuddenly Dawn from Velocity Security, breaks into Danielle's condo, kills her, and captures Jason one end quote. So that' That's what happens at the end of the episod I will say one of my favorite element aspects of the show, by the way, is when Jason is kind of talking with Daniella and Ryan And he kind of lays out the whole story, right? And then And then he says, Ryan says, this sounds like the guy's crazy. And then Jason says, I'm not crazy. And everyone realizes like, oh, you're the person who the hypothetical is about I thought that was a great, great moment. Anything else from episode that you want tolight Patrick Lppk? Um I think Jason too has underestimated how easy is going to be to slop. I think Jason one. Yeah. has an easier time slotting into the world of Jason two than Jason two. So you're doing the easy part. I came home and seduced My wife was used to having sex with me like wow, way way to go. but his life is just not that exciting. right? Like it's a pretty low key And I feel like that Anything that is different is fun and exciting I feel like Jason one or Jason two is going to start running into right Fitting into the rhythms of that life, I feel like That's to be one of the things I think is going to be potentially interesting for the show to explore is Okay, you use this incredible technology to like pull off this gambit Now you're here you actually have to live The gambit and I feel like that is going to have some unintended kind of like monkey like it's it's going it's going to curl. The monkey's paw is going to curl and I'm curious to see where those moments B, what friction points occur between He's taken notes, but you can't take notes on an entire life. You can't notes on the in jokes and references between people. and at some point that is going to cause a problem. And like I'm really excited to see I'm actually more interested in What's going to happen with Jason two friction points than I am in C you get back to the box and like get back to the you know what I mean? Because I'm interested to see what happens to the repercussions of Uh, Danielle dying in the alternate universe But also now it world is a little more I've seen this story before? Like it's the high It's like, o, he's got to get back to the technology to like find his way back to the universe. You know, the interesting part was, what if you could have sex with your alternate universe wife? And then she died And it's cool and it's shocking But now my interest in terms of what is more interesting from a storytelling perspective, about the implications of this technology is back in JSason two being in JSN one use aiverse. And so I don't really know where the show goes from here. but I've seen this story before in terms of I've got to race into the technology lab and use the technology to get back. likeike I've seen that. So hopefully it's smarter than that. than than what I might expect. because it's done a lot of that in episode too But now it's moved that story to something a little more potentially standard as opposed to what's happening in the other universe I have no idea what the arc of that character is over there I don't think Jason onene is getting back anytime soon which means it's a lot of episodes of weird stuff happening. with Jason too All right Let me talk about some of the other big differences between the show and the book One of the things is that we get perspectives from Layton and Amanda as they try to track down Jason in episode two of the show. U that just none of that is in the book because it's all you're in Jason's head, You know what I'm saying? So It's like Velocity industries, we don't really get any of their POV in the book. So all that stuff is show invention