Airport Authority Management and Infrastructure

You're listening to Dots, Lines, and Destinations, a travel podcast, with hosts Stephen Seagraves, Fosma Moon, and Seth Miller. Hello and welcome to another episode of Dots Lines and Destinations. I'm Stephen Seagraves. I'm Fazimamood. And we're joined today by Mr Pizza Man, Ed Pizzerello. Hey guys. Miles to Go podcast. Welcome to Vegas. We're sitting in the the club. The club in Terminal Is this E. Terminal Three. Terminal three Concourse E. And uh yeah, we Ed and I had dinner last night. Foz got delayed today. We were gonna record this again. We're gonna do another car podcast. We were another car taught. Um this doesn't have an episode number because we're just gonna kinda talk about stuff and not we don't know where it's gonna fall on our schedule. So um to be to be fair, if you did put a number on it, it still wouldn't actually be the right number. So in Ed's mind. Because Ed's keeping Episode one. Episode one. Well, it les made the fourth yesterday. May the fourth be with you. That's true. That's true. Okay, so now you've timestamped us. Yeah. Dang it. Good job. Gotta keep it relevant. Um so we we thought That was a record. That was like ninety second . He blew the timestamping. So great. I came and saw the new five guys. Yeah, we had uh so he uh so so so so Fozzie shows up, I told him about the breakfast sandwiches. We pulled a breakfast sandwich up on the screen. It's the only location in the country where you can get a breakfast sandwich all day long. And his first words were just music to my ears. Wait, I can add a patty to this. So so we had two eggs, two slices of cheese, four slices of bacon, and a hamburger patty. Because after all that, why not? Of course. Yeah. My cholesterol pill got a nice workout today. Yeah. Yeah. It's a cool cool location. People should check it out. Um I I think it's actually worth talking about. It's in the Venetian? It's out front of the Venetian, which is a problem for us 'cause people have trouble finding it. So I don't know how well you know Vegas, but uh for folks that don't um Madame Tussaud's wax museum is a building on the front of the Venetian and we are we are the first floor underneath Madame Tussauds. So for folks that remember the Mirage, if you were standing in front of the volcano show and turned around or right across the stre Nice. Yeah. It's actually super v convenient. Especially for people walking traffic is great, yeah. Uh flamingo, yeah, uh Harris , all that. And when hard rock opens. You'll have everybody coming across and then yeah. Because the shops are right there. It's like the screen. But I I mean I think that's why we wanted to talk to you today was one, we like talking to you, Ed. But two, your thoughts on Vegas? Y thouroughts on open ing a restaurant in Vegas? You're opening another one? I know. How I wanna know how you put up with Vegas so much. I get to the airport, I land, I'm ready to go home. Yeah. Yeah, I mean so Steven and I were walking back from the restaurant um to come see you and I'm like, Hey hey, we're gonna go this way and we didn't cut through the casino, we took a left hand turn. He's like, Holy cow, there's nobody here. This is great. Um so having been to Vegas however many bajillion times in the past ten years, most of the things I do are built around avoiding most of the people. Um it's you know the casinos, even though uh the v very very ache into one of your favorite places, New York Airport, even though there are fewer people in Vegas, the casino keeps moving things into the walkways to make it harder to get through without buying stuff? Sound familiar? No, yeah. Um so it is hard to get from point A to point B without taking a lot of time. Um you know, we were driving down the boulevard, Stephen, you saw the construction, they had a couple lanes closed down. Um typically there's a lane closed down most times or doing some sort of paving. So it takes a long time to get from point A to point B. And um on top of that, uh you know, you have to be very judicious about where you buy stuff and where you eat because the pricing is, you know there's plenty of value in Vegas, but you have to look for it and work work at it. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like it used to be th in that respect where m every casino had something that was ninety nine cents where the buffets were affordable. I mean, most of the buffets are gone now. Yeah. Um you know, we um I think we were talking about din typhon last night. Um so Aria um you know has a din type fun. It's fine, it's not as good as a lot of the other Dentai Fung I've eaten at and obviously not as good as like a native noodle place . But it took over the only breakfast restaurant in Arya. They do not have a breakfast restaurant. Wow. Most even only got the forenoon. It's true. So in the morning there's like one little cafe where they sell pastries and stuff, and there's usually forty or fifty people online waiting for a pastry or Starbucks. That's crazy. Yeah. Arya is connected to what's the other one? Vidara? Are you just connected to Vidara on one side and then Cosmo on the other. Yeah. So I mean it's you can walk to other places and get breakfast. But I think, you know, I think the thing about Vegas, at least, you know, for folks who've been coming here for a long time, was there there's always a lane you could be in. And if you want to be in the rich people's lane, like there's plenty of rich people stuff to do. But there's always a lane for normal people like us to be able to just come and hang at a pool and not spend a fortune and I feel so honored. He called me normal. Maybe I meant Steven. Yeah, there's two of us. I could say we, uh yeah. But I can remember more than once, so the the the only member of the trio of you who's not here, Seth, more than once looking on Instagram and seeing Seth's feet and like the tile of the Luxor pool in the background. And going, Hey, you're here? And then then we'd have dinner. Yeah. And yeah, he'd be here for a conference, and his room was over forty bucks. And he could get you go sit in a chair at the pool with an umbrella and cheap trip for a conference here for a few days, spend a couple hundred bucks and he's gone. Yeah. Um that's harder to do. I mean it's still doable, but it's unless you end up at Circus Circus. You do or um so I I was having a conversation with somebody who works for five guys and he you know he was here and you know he's on a per diem and the whole bit and he's like, Hey I w I wanna go for it for steak tonight, but I saw how much the steak dinner that we went to last night was. And I told him to go to to there's a place called Tender at um at Luxor. It's I mean same quality steak as any of the other MGM properties and it's you know half the price. 'Cause it's Luxor. But you have to like look for that. Yeah. There's no I mean you're you're not gonna walk through the airport and see a billboard for tender because you know they they they can't afford it. Yeah. So there's there's pockets of value. We talked about Piero's the Italian place uh that's over by the convention center. Old school Italian the rat pack used to hang out there back in the day. So there's places you can get value. You mentioned the place the the the Thai place that you go to that's off strip. The two locations off strip. Yeah. Oh it was Lotus. Okay. I was gonna ask you because we didn't off time because they they moved one of their locations. Yes, they closed one and then they're moving it. So yeah. Yeah, when I used to come to Vegas regularly, I would stay at the SLS to avoid the strip. Steve and I were talking about SLS last night. I missed the SLS. I am totally missed the SLS. And you could avoid you could just stay on uh is it flamingo on the other side? Mm-hmm. Just stay on Flamingo, stay out off the strip. Yep. And it was everything there was reasonably priced, even though it was a very nice hotel. Yeah, and it still is a nice hotel. Like when the rooms aren't quite as nice, but because it doesn't get the high occupancy level, the rooms have held up. But and it's I mean I think the thing with the SLS because it became the Sahara, it's back to being the Sahara. It was the Sahara that came in SLS. Yeah. Back to me Sahara. Um I think it it's smaller rooms. I think then when you look at like the Rio. We get the room I got at the Rio was massive. They are really big rooms. Uh they're huge. But the SS was fine. Like it's what you needed. It was a bed, it was a nice bathroom. Yeah. It was good. It's I mean, as far as Vegas is concerned, I feel like it's more boutiquey 'cause it's not forty stor storiesies, fifty , right? Right. It's a much smaller hotel. Did it used to be the W There was it so the with the two when it they were next to each other? Two towers. One tower was a W and one tower was the S was the S tower. Yeah. Yeah. Is the W still there? Or is it on too? No, when SLS so the guy who ran SLS the the W is what used to be the Delano. Yeah. That's right. So the the behind the Mandalay Bay. So the Mandalay Bay had it was it was Delano, it was the hotel at one point was the name of it, and now it's a W. And that's a very nice property. I mean the rooms are a little aged now, but they're in pretty good shape. That's actually the best place to stay if you're doing a concert or a football game because uh there's you can walk across the bridge to the stadium. Oh, you're like right there. Yeah. But I mean, like SLS back in the day, um, other than the fact it was a little bit off the beaten path, which for me worked because I didn't want to be on the strip. Right. Um, it was relatively affordable. We loved it all because Starwood, you know, S P G points were you know is a great way to get SPG points. Um always got an upgrade. Yeah, it was uh I was gonna say like I frequently got upgraded there. Although and and and thank God this is a a an audio only podcast so we don't just show visual aids. But um I remember sending my wife some pictures 'cause when you got upgraded in that hotel that meant mirrors on the ceiling. They also had like naughty pictures on the walls. Oh yeah. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah the the suites were the suites were not G rated. No. No no no remember that thing. Yeah. Yeah. I showed someone a picture and they're like, What is that in the back? I'm like, don't look at that. That's not what you think. Yeah, I stayed a couple rooms there. It was like, wow, this is this is very edgy so yeah so what are your thoughts on Vegas charging for parking everywhere now I mean I think they're shooting themselves in the foot with it um you know I think it's it's so like part of what made uh I think Vegas cohesive was the fact that it didn't cost much to drift from one casino to the other. And so if you're at Aria, it's easy to get to Cosmo or it's easy to get to Vidara. It's not even hard to get to say Park MGM. If you want to go somewhere else, you're either getting in a car or you're using a Lyft or an Uber. Almost all the quote unquote rideshare lots are in convenient locations. And so you're adding time and friction there. And if you go park yourself, you're paying. Yep. Um and in the areas where th they've now taken it a step further, in in certain areas where parking was free, um or or or included with elite status, let's say. So I've used Resorts World as an example. I love Resorts World. They take great care of me, quiet hotel. But they wanted to save some money. So they um they uh signed a partnership with Metropolis for their parking lot. I don't know if you guys have used the Metropolis parking lot yet. There um there are no people. It's all cameras. And so you you scan in with your license plate. You put your license plate in the app and then you link in this case you would link your elite status with resorts world and would say, oh, it gets free parking because he's whatever status with Resorts World. And then you go to the exit and if the camera can't read your license plate correctly, the gate won't open. And so like typically in the morning I'll be on a call and I get to the gate and I if it doesn't open. I'm like, I'm sorry I have to hang up because I have to call a call center in Indones ia. And I have to I have to wait on hold and then I have to convince the person that I'm legitimate. And then finally you know six or seven minutes later the gate opens. And so then people like, well, I don't want to park. So they they had a lot of friction there. Um and I think you saw it when we just left uh Venetian it was twenty or twenty five bucks to park for what? An hour? Yeah. And but then we go to we went to last night. To win. To the win. I come out. I'd gotten a ticket, scanned the ticket. It's like it just opens the gate. That was his own personal slot machine. That was the he won. I didn't put his ticket again. I didn't know why or I did didnn't't when show the card anywhere. What he told me was he said it was because he was a nice guy. That is not what I said. Someone believed that? I'm not saying somebody believed it, I'm saying he said it. Are you saying I'm not a nice guy? Well tax He's our host you better be nice though. Uh I don't host anything. Um I mean what do you think so I mean to Foz's question there, what is it that's causing what do you think it is that's that's the linchpin for Vegas right now in getting people here? And what's been your experience with opening a restaurant here? Aaron Powell So getting people to Vegas right now is is troublesome because you know er i there's a reputation that things are more expensive. I would say um so we talked about a little bit in the car that there are a number of hotels right now that are doing all inclusive packages. There's also um when things sort of went sideways with Canada, um you know, the guy who owns Circa down on Fremont Street, Derek Stevens, he rolled out a promo that said your Canadian dollar is worth a US dollar here. So effectively giving them par for their currency. And I think it was like twenty five or thirty percent difference at that time. Um those are all good things, but as you guys know, most people don't book a trip to Vegas for next weekend. Yeah. They're they're planning it. And so doing all these things is sort of encouraging people to come back. But um but it takes time. And because if if you have you have a a trip planned and you think Vegas is too expensive, unless you just Canada's easy example, plenty of other sunbird destinations that they fly from Calgary, Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, you go well, I'll just go to Cancun or the Bahamas and I'll buy a package and once it's booked, the package is probably non refundable. So now if somebody sends you a a a package for Vegas a promo and say, Oh free you know, all all you're like, Oh shoot, I already paid for my vacation, I'll get you next year. Yeah. Do you think the current landscape like when I lived in California, right? It was not uncommon for you to hop in a car on Friday. I agree. You've seen the price of gas in California, right? Correct. Well the gas, but like then also parking at forty, fifty bucks a night. Right. All that adds up. Yeah. Yeah. And I think they're just and that was the thing, right? When the first time I came to Vegas, it was a Tropicana, nineteen dollars a night. Right. Right. Right. And it's just like I'd never been to Vegas. Sure, I'll top in the car, go. Yeah um but that was one of the allures of the I guess because why else do you want to go to the frickin' desert? Yeah, and I mean look, it's a much greater food city than it used to be. Um there was a time when it was more geared toward activities because you had, you know, like the aquarium and the the lions and this that and it's a little bit less of that nowadays. There's obviously still a ton of great shows, you know, a bunch of circular fillet shows in town. But those are kind of so expensive too, right? Used to be you could go see a show for twenty, thirty bucks too. Right. No, last minute tickets, even last minute tickets are close to a hundred bucks a a ticket now. Um you know, sporting events are a reasonable expense here. Um the the the teams are popular, don't get me wrong, but the stadiums are also b ig. And so you can you can usually find cheaper sports tickets. They're building a smaller baseball stadium in an effort to sort of control that, but I would imagine they're gonna be affordable baseball tickets. Um and there's there's other stuff. Um you know, a lot of concerts so you you usually find something, obviously not the sphere. The sphere prices are exorbitant. They've driven hotel rates up down there as well. But to your point about the way a Vegas trip used to be And Stephen said this car, get you here cheaply, and then we'll find out how to get money from you in all these other ways. That was the sort of like the Vegas credo. And they s they got away from that. And that's to your point of like charging for parking or all those other things. That's the friction. If it was just easy to cause it's not just Southern California, you know, it's three hours from Phoenix. Right. And there's plenty of people in Phoenix that have enough money to go up and play the slots. Um what what's's ended up happening in Vegas, which is interesting 'cause this gets to your point of like, well, why are you coming to the desert specifically? Um, Red Rock Casino, Durango, and the M Resort are all three very nice casinos with very nice hotel rooms that are not well not only not on the strip, but they're a fifteen to twenty minute drive from the strip. And so people will come into town and they'll stay at the M as an example because it's right out on the highway going to LA. Um it's uh it's from where we sit right now at the airport, it's a solid 15-minute drive from here, maybe 20. Um and it's you know, it's they just built a brand new tower, very nice. Our buddy Michael Traeg hader Zorkfest this past year. The rooms are the new tower rooms are very nice. Um but you're not really in Vegas at that point. You're at a casino and it's a desert, but it could be a Indian Reservation in Arizona. Right. Yeah. Is it cheaper out there? Oh gosh, yeah. So here's a good example. Um to some degree. So um so we were talking about the the um how busy it was with two big activities in Vegas overlapping right now. And I'll try not to timestamp again which those activities are. You're welcome. But where rates on the strip are 800 to 1,000 bucks a night, the rates at the M resort for those same nightights are ey-nine dollars a night. And with parking if you paid every day to park on the strip for the conference. Right. And the the food out of them isn't necessarily great. The food at Red Rock and Durango, they have some they have some higher end dining. I've been to Red Rock with the food there is good. Yeah. Yeah. And they have a uh they do happy hour specials. So you if you go in early, like you can spend uh twenty, thirty bucks for two of you. Yeah. And be fed. Yeah. And and now their ADR has crept up, average daily rate. Their ADR has crept up. I mean you're like the people that are coming in to do staycations who are in the West, even if they're flying on like a used to be a cheap spare flight. Um, you know, those are you know, they're still two hundred dollar rooms, but they're not five hundred dollar rooms. But they're probably paying there's two one of two things. They're either paying around two hundred bucks a night, um, or they're paying sorry, the yeah, net net, they're probably paying in the low one hundreds 'cause they're probably paying a one seventy five to two hundred night room and they're getting some sort of food credit. They're probably getting a slot credit. They're also not walking a mile to the room. Hundred percent. It has a movie theater, the I think there's a bowling alley. And then they've got a handful of restaurants, they've got nice pools, stuff like that. So there's, you know, people come and they don't leave. They might go down to the strip for a show. Yeah. Uh but then they're spending the rest of their time at at Red Rock. So um there's still a ton of convention business on the strip, but that's obviously cyclical. And so do you see times where and I'll use Resorts World as an example 'cause where I stay most frequently so I can see the rates. Um I would say for all the rooms that the Traeger has booked for me this year, two or three times my rate has been above two hundred and fifty a night and the majority of the rest of the rates have been plus or minus a hundred bucks a night. And you guys know what the Rio rate is, because that's where you guys are staying's. That a forty to seventy dollar a night room. Um Resorts World is on the strip. It's not the most desirable location, but it's a hundred bucks a night. That if it's a hundred and twenty five bucks a night at Resorts World, it's three hundred bucks a night or greater at Ven etia. Wow. Venetia's a nice hotel, but is it three times better than a resource world? So here's I mean here's the question. It's theoretical, and maybe you don't know the answer, but if if they went back to doing the cheap runes, if Venetian cut its price by half year. Could they make money? I'm gonna answer your question with a question. If you increase the quality of the catering and amenities on board a plane, could you charge more for airline tickets over time? No . Maybe you could. I think you could. You're never gonna find out because everybody who is in charge is paid to manage to the quarterly earnings. Yeah. So this is the pro like they're not managing to their own thing. Yes, they're not they're not paid to like no more uh the no more airline executive is paid to get get somebody to pay more three years from now than than the CEO of MGM is to get somebody to to to come to the hotel three years from now. But in that same vein, right? With when there's no conference in town, even when there's some confies and done these hotels aren't at a hundred percent. No. Right? So it's the age old spoilage discussion on airplanes, right? Once the seat goes out emptied, you're not making money on. Whereas once the room is empty for the night, you're not gonna make any money. Yeah, and I think so like Vegas has to relearn some things. And that so I I met a gentleman, I'll I'll anonymize him a little bit because he may not want me to share some of the information that he shared with me. But he knows a lot about Vegas. And like one of the things that he shared with me were Treasure Island occupancy rates. TI was traditionally a hotel that did a lot of package business and it did a lot of Canadian package business. And their occupancy rates are very low, especially compared to the Venetian, which is across the street. So to your point about you know a a a place in a place in time, you I remember you know Bill you know, a handful of restaurants, they've got their gambling. To your point, if that room goes empty, all of those other assets get zero off that bed. And so when conferences drop to zero or much lower, um , I really think they should be more heavily discounting and or or or or activating something. So, like at least with Venetian and and uh Palazzo right now, they have the sphere. And so what they've done is they've said, all right, on on times where we don't have big conventions, we've got you two or no doubt or backstreet boys, and that fills beds. Yeah. But that doesn't fill beds at Caesars. Right. But like you know, if the if Caesars and all these hotel I agree. I think if you made a p if you made an appeal, you got your database of loyal t loyal customers and you said I,' Im g'onnam gonna go out to every zip code in southern California and I'm gonna give you an offer for the summertime and not just the all inclusive, but highlight some of the things. Free parking. Put a six pack of bottled water in their room, put a six pack of Budweiser in their room. It's dirt cheap compared to what you pay for it. Uh uh to your point, a certain number of people would drive. Because they're just like with spirit, the there the the for the person who lives in Southern California, the competition for a weekend in Vegas is probably sitting in their backyard. Like they're not they're not choosing between let me go to Vegas or I'm gonna fly to Cancun. It's either Palm Springs or Sure Vegas. It's yeah, with a couch. But they're not likely to be getting on a plane going somewhere else. And so you're if you if you give them an incentive, they may come. And if they don't come, uh all you really l lost was the flyer. Yeah. I feel like what Vegas has done is they've pivoted from guaranteed revenue up front versus what they might make. Yes, they're here. Yeah. And they wanted more certainty and less a little less uncertainty. But I think it's biting the them in ass now. Yeah, and I don't know that so I remember it I think it was pre COVID when they pivoted and it w finally began they were making more fifty one the the metaphorical fifty one percent was coming from non-gaming revenue sources um in Vegas. And it was all celebrated. It was like, oh we've we've turned this corner. Um but to your point that when that customer doesn't come, you now lose revenue in a number of different places. Um and you could at least attract locals back then to come in and play slots or blackjack or stuff like that. But locals don't come to the strip. Um they they really don't. There are enough places for them to gamble if gambling is their thing. Or they can go to Fremont Street. Fremont Street does a brisk staycation business for locals. So Plaza is a great example of it. Pla plaza has a great staycation uh business with locals. What do you think the impact is going to be long term from spirit? Oh I think I mean Spirit was the quintessential Vegas airline. Yep. You what Southwest used to be. Well, I would say shrubby Spirit and Allegiant. Yes, but Allegiant is much more constrained in city pairs. Mm-hmm Like you know they they the I think Allegian like what a Legion has done best is stay disciplined. They said we're gonna fly planes where we know we can fill 'em, we're gonna fly 'em on days we know we can fill the plane. And the planes the Legion planes that come to Vegas are packed. Um could they increase capacity? They could. Um there obviously are used planes out there. And I think that would more now. Yeah, exactly. So I think that would be uh I think that that's that's certainly a strategy that I would consider for folks. And I think you could if you did it the right way, I'm sure you could work with the casinos on partnerships to make it worth their while to sell in packages. Now some of the other airlines, like Southwest is not traditionally a package airline. More of like a frontier thing, Spirit, Allegiant. Um so maybe it's not necessarily a a path that a Southwest could take. Um I don't know if a breeze or Velo has the plumbing to do packages. Jet Blue does, right? I think Southwest could. They could, but I don't know if they have the Southwest used to. They've gotten away from it though. But all the majors did, right? And to some degree, but I mean, you know, but yet the majors, yes. But a Legion does it well. I think JetBlue does it reasonably okay. Um maybe not vagus sort of packages, but like Rental Carsh, like they have the plumbing to put something together. Um so I think you know I think that if you're going to if you're going to generate revenue in Vegas, I think package revenue is where I'd start um as opposed to trying to attract folks at the higher end right now. Because the folks at the higher end can fly other places. There's also a lot fewer of them. For sure. Um but to your point, people who are on the the the lower income spectrum who live in a city where there might be a cheap flight, you're you're battling against the couch. If you make it a couple hundred bucks for them to come for a weekend it's an easier close. It's it's yeah, right. Where if you have a little bit of money, you probably already have your travel booked. Which I was gonna I was gonna say you mentioned something which was something I was talking to Steven about the last few days. Friction. Yeah. And the amount of friction that has crept up in travel. Yeah . And it just drives me good. Like today I I was in San Diego, went to check into the chase lounge. Uh like it's the thirty five to forty minute waits. Yeah. I'm like then why am I paying for this cart ? And I got to a discussion with the supervisor and I quote we encourage people to show up to the airport three hours early so they can enjoy the lounge. And on the flip side of the friction side, but have you guys seen the rules for the sidecar lounge? Sidecar lounge. Within an hour, right? Ninety minutes. But you cannot get on the list ahead of time. You show up and you get in or you wait. So if you're show is so if you're if you're if you if you if you're there two hours ahead of time So if at that point the list is already long, it's not like you can say at two hours, okay, I'm here early, can you put me on the list and when it gets to minute eighty-nine then I get in. No, at minute eighty nine, now you're on whatever the wait And that's a is uh again did this when did the airline lounges become club like nightclubs? I well the airline lounges are the haven right now 'cause you can get in. Right. Unless you're on a day. Well, I mean like airport lounges. Well I think it's this premium credit card push, right? All the logging community has pushed them so aggressively that everybody needs to feel like they're exclusive and go hang out in the lounge. And that that's what I feel like the exclusive place to be is in the terminal. Well in fairness it's not just the blogging community. The the banking reps get paid an incredible sum to sell premium cards to people with money market accounts. I I I I I have some colleagues that work for some of the banks and the money that's being paid to get anybody who's got a money market account. It's like, hey, that they're they're getting the same commission the blocker. Everybody's pushing these things and we know how constrained the capacity is. Take the sidecar as an example. There's like thirty seats. Where is that? So in in in D here in uh in in in in Vegas, yeah, McCarron. So in terms so when you come up in the rotunda, what used to be one of the old priority pass lounges, they turned into this sidecar lounge. So it's um it's different access restrictions than the main centurion lounge. It's this 90-minute thing. Food was very good. Um, but it's there's call it thirteen or fourteen seats of the bar. There's a couple of single tables, like the same size tables that we're recording at here, just like a small cocktail sized table with one chair in a row facing a window, and there's two larger communal tables that seat like four or five. That's the entire seating And and do they have a centurion launcher as well? They do, and it's generally speaking at capacity. But there you can get on the weight list ahead of time. This is I mean it's it's crazy . why are why is anyone paying for these carts? Well and then on top of that you take we talk about friction. I hadn't run into this one yet, but it's an interesting one. I um I had a um I had a ticket on United. It was during one of the irregular ops situations. I did not have a seat. Since uh Capital One Lounge would not let me in because I did not have a seat assignment. They created the rule because they don't want people who are flying standby to craft the lounge. I'm like, I'm not flying standby. I have a confirmed ticket. They're like, sorry, without a seat assignment, you cannot come in the lounge. I had to go get a United agent from a different flight to assign me a seat so I could come back and go into the center the into the Cap One Lounge. So again, friction. It's like I've paid for the card. Uh you know, I've done all the things I'm supposed to do and I have a paid airline ticket. That seems like a bad rule because the all the boarding houses say standby when you're standing. So just look for the standby . Right. Right. And mine didn't say standby, but he said, Nope, the rule is you have to have a seat. You have to have a seat assignment. I'm like, I says my seat's gonna be assigned at the gate. Like this oversold flight, I'm gonna like you know, I'm not I'm not on standby. I'm a ticketed passenger. So there are lots of those things I think that exist today that make it just harder. Harder. And for what we pay for the premium credit cards, it's we had this conversation about Faz and I did about what do you do ? Like what's the consolidation method of these cards? And which ones do you get rid of, which ones do you keep? And I think Fozz has opinions. I have an opinion. What's your opinion, Fox? I think the only premium card really worth that's money is the Venture X. And why why do you think that? Just because it's two X on everything? I think well it's a reasonable fee. At three ninety five. It's a reasonable fee. You get three hundred dollars back into the trap or credit. You get access to the Capital One lounges and priority pass lounges. But no guess. Okay, no guess, but you don't This is different than the reserve. Yeah. Well you can get guess, but you gotta spend seventy five K. Yeah. Yeah. But you also don't have all these this coupon voc crap. Yeah. Do you think they're gonna go that way though? After they've seen their zerg and I don't I'd be surprised if they don't raise the annual fee. I I'd be okay with them raising the annual fee, but uh not like a problem is the the CSR, the Amex button, they've changed leagues by going from three ninety-five cards to eight ninety-five for the MX, right, and seven ninety-five for the CSR. And you're not getting that kind of of value out it. Well, especially when you have to wait 40 minutes to get into lounge. I I agree. Um the the the the thing I think that's the issue is so we've seen Cap One change the lounge restrictions pretty aggressively in the past twelve months. Yep. There's still I mean the I think not to timestamp, but there's a big sign up bonus right now for the Capital One Venture X for Business Card. Um that's going to generate a lot more people that want club access. But do you think so? Because the the spin requirement for that is isn't like 150K or something? But well, A, I don't think it's that high. Um, but B , I mean the like true business like I you know, I I have a I have an Amex platinum that I put a quarter million dollars to spend on this year. I got the notification I get the twelve hundred dollar airline credit in like eight months. And you're like yay. Right. But but but for small business, for the stuff that we can run through a credit card, that's not necessarily hard. And you know, you're you know, I I do think the the addressable user base for Cap One that has lounge access is growing. But their lounge network is not growing um anywhere near as much as it has over the past handful of years. So they've got they've built lounges in some places where they needed them. Denver's a great example. Um, but I don't think they have another half dozen lounges under construction right now. And they have like t let's take Dulles as a a great example. It's my home airport. You and I have spent time there. It's seventy five or eighty seats . And it's full. And it's full all the time. And that's their home market. There's no other premium lounge space at Dulles. Well, will there be in the new pier? Yeah, who do you think has it all? United. United's already you did United's already taken it. They're putting a club there. They're taking all of it. And that pier's going to extend to so we'll Yeah, maybe over time. But the but the all of the all of the lounge space in the new pier that's opening later this year, early next year is taken. So if Cap One wants to expand, they have to chase out like an Air France or somebody like that from Terminal A, which could happen, to be clear. But um but that would take years. And and so they're gonna continue to add credit cards now, but not increase lounge capacity. Is there anywhere in what's the what's the gates, the international section like where Turkish, the Turkish line? That's that's A B and there's no so you've got Turk Turkish there, British Airways took over the old American Airlines lounge there, Lufthansa has their senator lounge, which is a two-story lounge, Air France has the old Virgin Lounge, Virgin has a lounge, and then Etihad has the there there' isnt a the sapphire reserve . Turkish. And and Turkish, yes. So all the no other space there. There isn't there are spots there are spots in that term that could be built on top of. Um but I don't know that um I don't know that the airport is committed to that. Then the only other space is in A B, right? There's a lot of seating areas. They could reduce some of the seating areas to But with the size of the international planes that come in there? But I I c I I walk down A B so much waiting for flights that it's never even eighty percent full Yes, there's a gate. The gate are the problem is is the gate areas for the size of the planes are severely constrained. Yeah, but you right. But the g rarely do two gates next to each other does the same. They do they do a good job spacing out the flights for sure. So you could reduce some of the seating and just broaden the gate the seating area across two gates. If they were gonna do that, I would say it's the southwest gates right down by where the the trains are and uh in between A B where like where the um where the British Airways lounge is. Those last few gates were like Avianca and s and Southwest 'cause Southwest is pulling out. So those so Southwest had the like the last two gates across from the luftons of the center of the lounge. That was where they used to fly from. And so um so you could you could take that space in theory. And it's I would argue that's probably not that hard to add some space to some parts of the A B over there. Like where this escalators are, you can build on top of that? I definitely think there's places to build on top of it. As I think we all know, the the the airport authority there is incredibly corrupt and inept . And those two things together. Every other airport authority? But but look, Newark has managed to build things. As much as we don't mind, not like the things they built. They built things. It took how long? I understand. And the train? Like okay, we're t taking the train out of service now for six years from now? I know. I know. But look how long it's taken Dulles to get twelve new gates. That's because they don't want to pay for it. I agree. So I mean they uh some one still rather than fly out of a garage, a borough five garage. Somebody's really gotta wanna pony up the bucks to get the airport to build more club space. Well I think this goes to something he and I uh Steve and I were talking about is that these I saw it in DFW, right? These airport authorities are now so focused on public ity. Like it used to be if you went back 40 years, it was a something in the background. You would never knew anything about the airport authority, it just worked. Now as airport authorities have focused on revenue sharing with all the merchants, right? Like it just it has become a business like anything else, right? And they are treating it as a business and not a public service. No, I agree. I I uh do you guys listen to Airlines Confidential at all? Sometimes. So they've had the and I won't remember her name, but they've had the CEO of Pittsburgh International Airport on a couple of times. And I I was through there not too long ago and I mean I think we all know what Pittsburgh was at one point and then what it became, uh just this shell of an airport. And I think they've done a a pretty commendable job of sort of rebooting that airport in a way that could be sustainable that to your point is almost the antithesis of what the bigger airports are doing right now and they they seem to be doing it in partnership with the airlines in a way that still makes the landing fees reasonable for those airlines. Right. I I can't think of another airline in the U airport in the US that's doing that. The small ones. Small ones are like this. Is PDX doing a good job of that? Yeah. So I mean I think they've got some issues with planning, but I think they're overall like keeping things at street prices. Yeah. Like enforcing that yeah then keeping landing fees reasonable I think has been a priority. Yeah. Trying to draw carriers in more routes. I think that's that's uh that's kind of I mean they're they were in the same boat as Philly due to or not Philly Pittsburgh because of COVID. Right. The numbers still haven't come all the way that 's um I want to switch gears. Uh oh. A little bit. You wanted to talk about spirit and yes, but not spirit directly, indirectly. Indirectly, that's spirit. Yeah, and I I ne neverver th thoughtought that we'd see this day come, so I never put a lot of thought into it. And you guys are like two of the best people I can think of to steel man this argument. But here we sit with the airline that all three of us have flown a lot of miles on over the years. United does not have a southeast strategy. And as we said in the car, Washington Dulles is not in the southeast. Depends on your definition of Southeast. South of the Mason Dixon line. Um And reach into the Caribbean is tough because the you know they're they're originating from points that are so far away from everywhere else. With spirit falling over and with you know some potential for a you know, a jet blue slash united conglomerate there. I really feel like this is, at least in our lifetime, this is the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for them to have a real hub in the southeast that probably won't come again in the time that I'm flying. But do you do Fort Lauderdale or do you do Tampa where you're not competing with American? Um it's a good question. Tampa's certainly better geographically, um, but I wonder if you could get the sort of gates you need at Tampa to grow exactly. They keep rebuilding the piers. Right. And so Tampa for those haven't that haven't been it's like Orlando where it's remote piers. So they're opening one this year, I think, or next early next year, one or the other. I know they're doing a new they're new they're doing an expansion. I think the thing with Fort Lauderdale that appealed to me is for if crappy as it is, it's quote unquote movement ready, like the gates are there. Right. But I think uh there's more runway capacity and potential for runway capacity at Tampa. I agree with you. Right. Also maintenance facilities at Tampa. Oh, okay. I know that. United has one. Mm-hmm. You so United already has a hangar there. Yeah. Which I think so I think Tampa would be a better fit. The question is well what does it really solve for United? If you're if you're do you say Caribbean, so if you're going to the Caribbean, does it really matter if you connect in Tampa versus Houston or Dall Yes. I think so because from from a segment length standpoint, you're talking about I I I think that they are I think there's a challenge in pulling people from the southeast to the Caribbean for United because you're backtracking them all to Dallas or Houston. But how many people from the Southeast? Like there's so many options nonstop. You've got Jeff Blue with a bunch of stuff already. Right. You have AA in Miami. You have you potentially Delta Atlanta. For sure, but they're not getting they're they're not getting United is not getting their share of the Southeast in my opinion. Miami and Delta sorry, American and Delta are carving up the Southeast. And the the Southeast as a whole, while there are certainly are areas that are lower middle income or lower income, there's a lot of money in the Southeast. And United doesn't fly those people. So where let's hype camp over far either. Where would you propose they focus the domestic portions other than the other hubs? Like d are you thinking I mean they already run San Francisco and LA, Tampa. Yeah, you're right. They have a couple of they have a couple of Tampa flights. Um I think I mean so I first off I think I think that there's been a gap in the Caribbean ever since American pulled out of San Juan. And they do an okay job servicing it from Miami, but there's nowhere near the connectivity to the Caribbean and through the Caribbean that there was when They don't think Jet Blues filled most of that? They don't. I mean I think I think I think Jet Blue is more point to point for that sort of stuff. I don't think they're I mean I could be wrong about this. I don't connecting for I think they're moving a fair bit through San Juan. There's not enough O and D and San Juan to go into all these other islands. Sure, but they're much smaller than American was back in the day. Much, much smaller. No doubt. I would say like okay, you go from like Memphis South. Mm-hmm in the southeast. Those customers can fly to Houston or Dulles to go to the Caribbean today. Probably less Dulles, mostly Houston. Sure. Um or Newark.. Mm-hmm That's a that's a long backtrack. It's a long backtrack. A lot of it's overnight. Mm-hmm. Because the flights from Newark all leave in the morning. But I think that's by design. Because if you would I ever watch United do with the Caribbean is when there's connecting flow, they will add flights from Houston and Dallas. All the stuff in Newark is supposed to be really there for O and D. Yeah. Sure. There is enough demand O and D uh for Newark. Do you really think that do you really think that the people who live in the Southeast, do you think United can really offer a competitive product by connecting people by backtracking them ninety minutes to two hours on that first leg? Central America is not great. I mean they used I mean obviously Copa used to be a great partnership for them, but still a decent partnership. Um but I I mean I think about the you know I think there's I think there's a good chunk of of traffic that flows to Central America that I think both of the Delta and American have. I think United has more lift into Central America than Delta. I I I I would almost never argue with you on a stat like that. I would just say that I just think that you're there for all the for all the the Central America traffic that's in the southeast, I just don't think they're making well I think it depends where in Central America you're going, right? If you're going further west, right, Houston's not a big deal. Right. For sure. And the Well I would say it's it's that's not necessarily a big deal. It's it's it's it it it's it's it's uh you can you i people will get by with it, but they're but the connections are so th so my business partner has has been um spending some time in Panama and so he's doing some of the connecting in Houston. I've looked at these itineraries. They're horrible. Yeah, I guess but if you're sitting in the southeast, if you have to pick your poison between Atlanta, Miami , or Houston, I would pick Houston over the other two any day. Most of the but if but if you look at these itineraries, a lot of these are you're you're flying into Houston late at night and then you're taking some fac ed three and a half hour red eye to some place in Central America like Panama. It's it's not what I anybody would call desirable fly . I think I think I mean you could just solve all this if Kirby gets his wish and they merge with you not uh Americans. Who let him in here ? That's that's Miami right there, baby. Oh god. We don't want Miami. Oh, no, you don't. I I just I've always felt like there was just way too big a gap. Dulles is too far north and Houston is too far west for an airline that you know, for for a major airline to have coverage in the US. The other thing to think about is if if there are irregular operations in Houston and you're trying to get people from the southeast, you're you're limited. Like some of that stuff isn't served by anywhere except Houston and Dallas. Maybe Chicago. Yeah, I mean but when you look at United's hub strategy, right? It's all in business centers. So what is the business center in Florida? Probably more t uh well, I mean I guess there's different business centers for Tampa than there is for Fort Lauderdale. I think you know you've seen a lot of like the movies uh you know move to Florida, so there's a lot of traffic between South Florida and Southern California. So that there's there's a market there. There's more of a business market for manufacturing production stuff, I would say in the in the Tampa area. Um maybe a playing Pokemon Go. I mean I I I got a notification about Pokemon Go on my watch. I'm not playing. Um probably should turn notifications off or I lock. Somewhere Richard is laughing at how many notifications I get. He always laughs about that. terms of it's your point in terms of one of them being a major like is there's no there's no city in the southeast that has a big enough business center for United to use the same hub strategy that they use in like a Chicago or uh Denver. That's for sure. But I do think you know, I don't think I I I don't think you know a Memphis or a Nashville is um ever gonna be a robust hub, but they could support like I mean like Americans tried to make a go of things like Nashville, South West McContra Government Nashville. I I think that that's all fine, but the r to me that like those cities to me are probably not big enough from an O and D standpoint to support a major hub. And that's where I say like leaning a little bit further south you pick up you you obviously pick up some level of connecting flow to places people want to go and you pick up a reasonable amount of O and D for people that want to go to sunshine places on the coast. I would I mean I would argue for Lauderdale because you and runway constraints is an issue. The other reason why though I liked South Florida is I I feel like and and I could be wrong, this is very notional. I feel like with weather patterns, while there are storms in South Florida, the storms are more severe and sustained in central Florida than they are in South Florida. Hmm. What side what side of the peninsula is better from a weather standpoint? East or west? Tampa, I mean you have to look through this. I mean Tampa, Tampa's probably a little bit further north than I want to be for some of the similar severe storms. I you know, I certainly wouldn't want to make Orlando a hub. Um I just I don't think it's a uh the uh you I don't know it's like LA, I don't think you'd ever get enough gates to to truly be a hub there. Um get enough at Tampa. I don't know. Like Foz brings up a good point about the fact that they're adding a pier there. They have a lot of land. They have six piers, right? They they have spots for six piers. I think at any time four are open. And the the airport is built in such a way with the way those remote piers are built that it's easy to get people. Yeah. And it's also easy to get people back like if you needed to add if you need to extend the piers another like if you want to add like what they're doing at those you want to add eight or ten gates to the end. The the the transit system between the piers is fine. The only thing that would suck at Tampa that they need to figure out is security. Because right now all the piers are isolated. Yes. Oh, so it's it's single, it's a line in each pier. You clear into your clear into your pier. The security's at the far side on like Orlando. Where it's at the in the main building. Yeah, and it would be tough. There so I mean I don't remember the peer numbers in Tampa, but there's constraints around some of the peer entrances that would make it tough to build it. And look, the security entrances the security facilities out at some of the peers are overwhelmed at times, just like how many people come out and like the the And those are not big enough now today that you wouldn't you'd need to add some more gates. But you'd have to you'd have to move some pretty big walls in the main parts of the Tampa terminal to get security in that main hall. Maybe. I mean, but maybe, maybe not round, but they did some extensions to that building for the monorail. So they can do some build outs. Yeah, you can put it outside by the monorail, yeah. Like I've I've always thought that they should consider doing some of that um i at like uh you know uh uh sh like like an airport like a Chicago where you just push stuff out over the ring road and and have people clear security further away. Or like LA where they're building the transit facility further away. Like have people clear security before they get on the the train and then drop them in a terminal. They could get rid of the train and just build uh something over the airport road that connects all three trains on each side. Yeah. And they could actually do a U, so in theory you could go all the way around like Minneapolis. Yeah, no, I definitely think there are things you could do there. And and you know, Tampa does have plenty of land. I don't I mean I don't I don't know Isn't Tampa like the largest like land by or largest airport by land ownership? I think this is because Denver I think it's bigger than Denver. And DFW. I think it's bigger than we'd I'd had had this discussion Yeah. The only thing I'm not sure with Tampa is obviously you have the I mean you I don't know how much of it is developable without significant expense because of the water table. Yeah. But I mean you you don't need to build for twenty, thirty years out. You could stay within whatever the current footprint. Expand that. Denver thirty-three thousand acres, DFW seventeen thousand acres, Southwest Florida International , Fort Myers, 13,000 and a half acres. Half of its swamps . Might be more than half. So I was wrong. I thought I knew it was one in Florida, but that that's But I think Fort Myers has, I mean they m they they have a couple of places Yeah, 'cause of Yeah. Like Eurowings or somebody flies in a I don't know. I just I mean, you know, it's it's an interesting time in the airline industry. You know, we haven't seen an airline the size of Spirit fail in quite some time. And so I I just thought it was an interesting time to think about the map. And you guys, you know, more so than almost everybody I know are , you know uh sav ants when it comes to thinking through these things. Like I you know, I I had this whole brain child about Fort Lauderdale and you shot a hole in it in thirty seconds talking about Tampa. I mean so it's uh it's a very viable alternative . But I think let's let's let's close this with a with a question because we've talked through all these different things. I think I know your answer. Set aside Fort Little versus Tampa, do you think it's the right decision for United to try to pursue a Southeast hub . In the long term, yes, but not when fuel is four dollars gone. That's fair Do you know when fuel's gonna go down below four dollars a count ? If I knew that, I'd be playing the market, not sitting here talking with the two of you. He knew that he wouldn't be here. Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. Well I'd like to think you'd be here, but we'd be at the wind. Well, yeah. Beautiful resorts. We'd have private chest waiting. We wouldn't be waiting on United. We wouldn't know where the priority path lounge is. I don't think I think Kirby thinks about these things, but I don't think they're I don't think they're comfortable with that yet. I don't think they're like in a spot where they could say, Let's build another hub. I think they're comfortable in adding new routes. Yeah. They're not comfortable in let's go wholesale on Well, I mean look, all we have to do is look at Seattle. Right. And look at how much Delta is struggling by like that's the newest hub, yeah. Out there for a major. And they're burning money. And they are burning money. Now the advantage to camp would be there's no one in no big incumbent. I was gonna say like like the the the I think I think Delta overestimated or underestimated Alaska's ability to compete there. It's less Alaska's ability to compete, but Alaska's following. Yeah. The loyalty to Alaska. They thought they could just flip people over . Yeah. Right. And I think, you know, the places that we're talking about Fort Lauderdale and Tampa, um well I mean Tampa's obviously not uh an open slate for others. The United happens to have a big presence there. But I think you know, Fort Lyre though right now is an open spot on the map. Nobody it's big enough to be a hub and nobody has control of it. I mean Jack Blue beyond spirit. Jack Blue would be the second largest car at Fort Laureal. I agree, and that's what I say. I thought like part of this strategy for United could be that JetBlue is effectively a proxy at this point. And they're like they they could have an implicit strategy where JetBlue and United are going to both grow there on different routes with the intent that they're gonna combine at some point and turn into a hub later. Yeah, look that's that's the reality, right? Like right now, if you look at it from United's perspectives, JetBlues days are numbered and they're letting them do the dirty work, the hard work of building a hub there But they have a lot of stuff there already. To some degree, but I think I mean like the the the frequency on the routes that they're adding is not what I would call hub quality. It's squatting on some gates with, you know, uh like a mishmash of stuff. You need to start connecting real cities to Fort Litterdo. They and like the Detroit's probably the one the only few on that list I looked at was like, all right, well that's us city where they can move traffic. Somewhat how spirit used to. I mean the thing with Jet Blue is they don't have enough small planes. I agree. And that's the that's their gating factor for Lauderdale. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But but I mean, you know, I like I like if you're if you're really gonna execute a Fort Lauderdale strategy, I think you're gonna roll out more Memphis, more Nashville, more Cincinnati, more Chicago, more Indianapolis, you're gonna you're gonna tackle ten to fifteen Midwest cities. One or two of 'em are probably gonna be big, but most of them are gonna be medium. Like take a city like Indianapolis, you could you know, the the the population or in and around Indianapolis could absolutely support a couple more flights to South Florida. That yeah, you know, that that that's not a that's not a a hard bridge to overcome. That to me is like I d I I don't discount what JetBlue has rolled out, but it doesn't strike me as somebody who's building a hub. Some of the routes are desirable but, they're but they're not bringing people from the places where people are. Jet Blue's also not in a position to go full bore right now financially. I agree. And so I think they're testing the waters. Mm-hmm. I agree. But it right. But that's what I say. Like somebody could step in. United could say we're gonna run and I don't know if they have the fleet for this. Again, you guys would know well better than I do, but like you know, run you're gonna do twice daily from eight Midwest cities into Fort Lauderdale. I think it's doable. It's possible. Yeah. They have the planes to do it. They have the to but do they have enough regional tests to do it? Elon seventy five maybe do they have enough ? It's the the 475 fleet is pretty busy. Soon have soon you'll have C RJ two hundreds with first class. They already do. Oh the two hundred, so the two hundred. The the with the new four fifty, I think is what they're gonna call it. Yeah. You put that and put those babies on Fort Lauderville routes. And I and the inf ight acts would be right size. Suddenly backtracked to get dollars since well and I'd have to look at the numbers, but my guess would be I don't know that there's ten or fifteen, but my guess is we could get to four or five cities in the Midwest right now where you could do narrow bodies. Memphis, Nashville, Indianapolis, maybe a Kansas City. I'd have to look at the cities to to make sure 'cause I 'C Iause haven't put the thought to this, but there's I'm say noting you could do six a day, but I think you could have a couple of regional frequencies a day and a couple of of narrow bodies a day and have a schedule. Yeah, yeah, you could. Um and you could take a I mean you know it doesn't have a lot of three nineteens. But you could you could feed something like a three twenty and you could go, you know, Nashville, Fort Lauderdale, Dulles , and then wherever three twenties go after they leave Dulles. So it didnre' getting rid of them though. I thought they were I thought they were pairing that fleet down though. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. United doesn't have many hundred twenty seat planes, right? They've got sixty something, three nineteen's I think, and twenty-something seven three G's. And the problem I see with the three nineteen specifically into southern Florida is I think the strategy there, if so, like look, don't get me wrong. There's a strategy there for a low-cost carrier, allegiance, whoever, like sunshine's, like we know that capacity. The the if there's a strategy for United , in my opinion, it's by flying the the premium seats down there from place like there's plenty of money in Indianapolis and Nashville and Memphis and places like that. The three nineteen has what? Twelves? Right. It's a very small cabin. But I mean 12 like 12 might be enough for now. A bunch you have a bunch of spirit three twenties. BFS baby big red. See, but those only have two rows of BFS. But but those would be easy to put. We could add 'em. I just wanna I and for the record, I just w sayanna that that uh I I took a picture. I know we're audio podcast, but I took a picture just uh out of uh moment moment of moment of silence. Resource world has both the small buzzballs and the big buzzballs in the so in honor of spirit Anything else you guys want to chat about? No? I'm good. I just want to say that just because we're not timestamping this, this definitely did not happen right after May 4th. No , not at all. I also threw Ed off because I showed up instead of Fozz the first day. That was really funny. Yeah, for it's like from my perspective, Foz and I have been talking about getting together. Guys were doing uh a run. I thought that was last weekend, but that shows how messed up my life is. And I completely forgot that Steven was with you. And so when you were coming to Vegas, um, you know, my schedule got sh changed around, and then all of a sudden you're like, well I'll come earlier and we'll have dinner. And you're very diligently texting me back every time I'm you know we're talking about where to have dinner and the whole bit. And you suggested Thai food, which was you know apparently Steven suggesting Thai food. And I came around the corner at Wynn 'cause we went to Mizumi for Tepanyaki and the first thing that went through my head was, why the hell did Foz bring Steven and not tell me are they really gonna have a third seat or not? It didn't even occur to me that I was getting played. He just kinda like looked at me. And I think he was looking for you next. Yes. I was. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I made some very bad joke about maybe Ice grabbed you at the airport or something like that. Oh I didn't hear that one. No, you are there for that. Oh man. Well thanks Ed for coming on the show. We appreciate it. Thank you. This would this is probably the only time I will ever be in this lounge. Never coming back. I I mean what what tell okay list all the reasons why you would come here. I wouldn't. Yeah, okay. I would have set this for good to see you guys. Good to see you. Talk to you soon.