Reflecting on Freedom and Future Stories

Before we get to the episode, we just want to say thank you. Seriously, thank you. You've probably heard us talking about our spring fundraiser and how your support helps us make more episodes of beer hustle, while also allowing us to bring our live show and our storytelling workshops into prisons around the country. And one of the best parts of the fundraiser is hearing from you all We love the comments you share with us when you donate. like This note from Lena after R orny ass Named by you Aore your podcast and I'm grateful for all the work you do and hugs are necessary and life saving Nothing cheesy about them. That's. That's right. Okay, or this one from another L named Laura, amazing podcast. I truly appreciate the work all of you do. inside and outside. Thank you for including the women Honestly though, only a small percentage of listeners donate less than one percent It's tough out there, we know, and we get it. That's why we are so appreciative of the gifts we do get. Your donations help us do the work we do Visiting prisons, telling stories, and bringing you voices that aren't often heard And every single gift helps us get closer to our goal of one ousand don. But time is running out before the end of the fundraiser and the end of the fiscal year. We need your help before the end of this month. Donate today at earhustlesq dot com slash donate or by following the link in the episode notes And in case we haven't said it enough Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you It means so much to us to be able to do this work and we couldn't do it without you. No we couldn't ready when you re This is a short episode too. I love a short episode. Welcome back to the studio Elan To listen this shortpisode.'s good to be back. pulling another one out of the archives one that we wanted to revisit and wanted listeners to either hear for the first time or return to and consider again because we feel like this one people might forget about this one. This is a classic. this is a true Ear hustled episode And what are we listening to? We are listening to getting a date And getting a date was our tenth episode of season one And this was the episode that Antoine came back for Do we want to explain the story about why Antoine? Oh, yes, we definitely should out of the mix. Antoine. So Antoine, you know, he always say that, you know, he grew up and didn't have the best of things And when he went to prison, you know, there was an opportunity for him to wear some of the flyest clothes. And you tailored him himself? He tailored some of them himself, made like little shirts and he useds just be there with the tennis shoes that he even painted on and he ended up going to the h. And the initial issue was that you're not supposed to alter state clothing, is that? Yes. And then when they just locked them up and went to a bunk area They discovered like a locker full of like closing. So they was like, wait a minute, are you trying to escape? But he was just trying to be fly. He was being himself, you know If I'm not mistaken, he was on a picture. That's what I remember. The San Quentin News ran a story about Eir Hustle being chosen by PRX in that competition And if feat shred a picture of Julie and Curtis and you and Nigel and Antwoine and Antoine had on one of his sharp cardigans. Cardigans. somebody with the blue prison shirt up under it Somebody saw it and they' like, Wait, this an incarcerated person? Yeah, that was hilarious. And I think it was on the front page of the San Quint News too Why did you want to listen back to this episode? Because this is this right here was one of those stories that everybody dream of when they' in prison. and I'm going say everybody because everybody escapes that place. But this was a guy that actually U followed his dreams. We're going to hear his story We're going to hear One of the deepest questions Niju has ever asked anyone And I want y'all to pick it up. I ain't gonna to say what it is. Okay. So this dropped it was the tenth and final episode of the first season dropped in october, twenty seventeen. What was Or things like for you in October, twenty seventeen. October Of twenty seventeen, I was just jealous 's just doing time, you know what I'm saying? And Enjoying a accomplishing A whole season with BRX and Radiotopia. it must have been a different place than it had been six months. Yeah. It was it was so You know, when you were in a confined environment, for me, I used to always clown other podcast shows. I used to be like, ye, you know, y'all got to go take the trash out, take the kids to day carere, go here, go there, get on the freeway, deal with traffic. I's like, we write here. we have none of that. We just stick to the stories. This is all we got to do is just sit in here and work on stories So it was fun work It was rewarding and A lot of people got what we was doing. We were talking about every day existence inside prison And that's it Okay, so we're going listen to the first segment. We're going to come back, talk a little bit about it. listen to the second part comeome back at the end and do a wrap up Y hustle episode ten. getet in a date. F the end the podcast In Ho of Bprouck some cannou this O lamplt for Vis Saluser The following podcast contains language that may not be appropriate for all listeners You're now tuned in to San Quentin's ear hustle from PRX's Radyiotopia Hey E, tell everyone how you heard about this story. You really ear hustled this one. I think it was back like in January. I was in a child hall and I'm waiting in line for dinner And there was a couple of dudes behind me, and one was telling the other guy about this one hundred fifteen he got. A one hundred fifteen is a rule of violation. R. Right Ecept This wasn't about contraband or fight This was about an actual escape So you know it got a little interesting, right? I'm hustling this one. I'm sure you are. So I did one of those I'm not listening to what you're saying things and turn around just so I can really identify the guy And later I saw him on a yard and he was in front of the area where the white guy's kicking. And he's an older guy, but he was bustsing down, doing burpees, getting his money, right?ice. So I waited for him to finish his set and then I walked over to him and I'm like, Excuse me, sir. My name is Erline. Can I highlight you for a second And we start talking and I told him about the podcast and I was like, lookook man I was in line the other day and it was you and another guy and you was telling him about a one hundred fifteen you had and it was a very interesting story I would hope that you can come down to the studio so we can talk about it. And he was like, No. I'm Irline Woods, a prisoner at San Quentin State Prison in California. I'm Nigel Por, a visual artist who works with incarcerated men at San Quentin. And together, we're going to take you inside I've been denied three times. This is my fourth parol hearing coming up now. Steve Wilson has been in prison on and off for about thirty years. He didn't want to talk to us at first because he had that parole hearing coming up He didn't want to say something that might be used against him. Which is smart Because if your parole hearing is successful, you get a date It's what everyone wants, a date to get out of prison. And that's what we're talking about on this episode what it takes to get out of prison. So Erlon, Steve Wilson didn't want to talk to us. This was way back before we even did our first episode. So maybe he didn't know what we were talking about And honestly, we didn't even know what we were doing. Maybe. I mean, I explained it to them, you know, I'm like, hey, man, we' hold this story off until after your parole hearing And after talking to him like that, He agreed to hl at us I thought I had a good chance at parole the last time I had a A low risk of recidivism I had Over twenty years of clean time with no write ups I had no violence in my history except my commitment offense in nineteen seventy nine C commit offense. that's the crime that put him in prison in the first place In nineteen seventy nine, Steve Wilson murdered his father in law on a ranch in California It was a complicated domestic dispute that we're not going to get into here, but basically Steve wife left him and he went to her father's ranch to get her back. His father in law wouldn't allow him on the ranch. So long story short, Steve kidnapped his father in law and ended up killing him, shhooting him twice, I believe It's been almost forty years since that murder. And Steve's now seventy three years old It's not just his crime that's keeping him in prison Every time I go to the board There's always this one rule violation one hundred and fifteen that I got about thirty years ago And u Every time I go to the board, they bring it up They do. We're going to hear more about that rule violation. But first, here's what's waiting for Steve when he goes to the board. This is Danny Plunkett, who has been incarcerated for twenty seven years for murder and robbery. You have to go in there You have to be accountable for your actions prior to the commitment offense, the commitment offense and after the commitment offense. And you'll sit down in front of the commissioner depeputy commissioner who hold your life in their hands Danny just went to the board, so the memory is fresh. You go to your first parole hearing here at San Quin You go in the same direction that you would go to a visit You've gone that way many times, but this is a whole new experience here Emotions, nerves are just raw and you've got your packet under your arm All your stuff, support letters, parole plans, relapse prevention plan Maybe a couple book reports, an essay that you've written And as you're headed to where the visiting is, you'd make a left And you still have to stand there and wait for an officer to come get you He takes you through a gate You go up a short flight of stairs and there's at a holding sale. There's a wooden bench and you sit on that bench I can honestly remember sitting in the holding cell W waiting for them call me to go to the board Phil Mlendez was on a recent episode about Unwritten rules of race. He's been incarcerated for twenty years for a double murder He also just went to the board And you know, they call you, they say, Hey, Mr. Melindaas, They're ready for you And I remember my heart sink in The butterflies times a million. I felt like there was maybe a billion butterflies in my stomach Um, I felt like electric, like my whole body was like Flowing with energy, but nervous energy. Nothing not such a good energy If you're lucky and you get a date at the hearing, those butterflies don't necessarily go away. Ron's self was on our first episode talking about the Selly from Hell. He' served twenty three years for attempted murder He actually got a date recently. And he's scheduled to be released soon. But they have up to one hundred and twenty days to review it and Yes it's C coroach motel, easy to get in, hard to get out. That's gonna help lookook at it. It's a slow process getting out It's slow because your date goes through a review process. and as Run knows, they can take your date away from you at any time. So there's this euphoric feeling I mean, it's like, wow, I'm really found suitable This is not my reality. What's about to come happen. And so then another type of stress starts to set in. It's like, am I going somehow get the date taken away like other people have. I think it's worse stress. Why? Wh why? Because you just you don't know. You think you're literally walking on rice paper. If you were walking on eggshells before, you're walking on rice paper now. It's just it's anything can cause it to go sideways waiting Prison is all about waiting. And then when something finally happens, goes your way, you get a date You still got away ST E PH E N is the correct spelling. Steven. Stve Steve for short Steve's been waiting a long time And you can see why he's anxious about his parole hearing. Yep, it's that rule violation. The parole board is gonna know all about it and it's a big one. We're gonna hear about that right now and we're also going to check back in with the other guys to see how they fared with the board. After he murdered his father in law Steve Wilson was sentenced to twenty five years to life And he started serving his time at California's second most famous prison. I arrived at O Folsan in October of nineteen eighty two After I established myself and felt comfortable, I began making plans to escape He started with Research In the prison library, Steve found some books about escape attempts from old Folsam There had been dozens and dozens of attempts to escape out of old Folsom that had never been successful. Steve said that he thought these books were in the library to show guys how impossible it was to escape But Steve learned something very important from these failed attempts. They failed because somebody Whenever there is more than one person Somebody chickened out and I had those same emotions at the end myself. Am I going to do this or am I not And the one way to chicken out is you drop a kite on yourself and say, there's a escape attempt. and everybody gets busted. And that's what I read in the books. My fail safe method was don't tell Anone? Steve was working in an industrial warehouse in a prison, and that's where he saw his opportunity They received a gigantic exhaust fan, the type that goes on top of a building. Weigh about four thousand four hundred pounds. The fan was there for repairs, which meant that eventually it was going to get shipped out. And the more I looked at this fan, the more I realized this was going to be the way to go There was an eighteen inch opening underneath the fan. Steve found that he could squeeze inside it and not be seen. From that point on, I just focused on getting enough money hidden away and waing my opportunity Over this period of time, I had accumulated two thousand dollars. My dad would visit me. He had hundred dollars hundred bills rolled up inside of balloons. so tight they're about size of bills. My dad would just drop them out of his hand into the soda can, and I would drink them, swallow them, wait until the next day and fish them. Oh But now he had money and a plan Then one day, his boss told him that the fan was getting ready to ship So when no one was looking, Steve crawled inside. I can remember very distinctly august second, nineteen eighty four, it was already hot And I'm in this fan I'm sat down in the middle of the floor and there's two or three officers and pre staff walking around. and one of them, my boss, comes over and he's standing next to the fan and he tells the guys, he says, okay, load the fan now And so My heart's beating so loud, I'm thinking that they've got to hear it because this is a scary situation and I'm sweating profusely. Drops of sweater falling off my head and hitting the cardboard. And to me it sounds like somebody's thump, thump, thump And so I'm thinking I'm sure they can hear that out there But they didn't hear him, and the fan was loaded into the trailer of the truck, the truck left the prison and Steve was out But this was just the beginning of his escape. Yeah We interviewed him for about two hours and he remembers everything that happened that day, like when he realized he was locked inside the trailer. This is where I made my mistake in my planning. It took him a while to find a way out I'm sitting there And there's these little pin tricks of light coming down from the roof in the trailer and little dust mats floating around. And I'm thinking, whereere in the world is that coming from? And I look up at the ceiling and there's all this duct tape He pulled the duct tape down and popped out. Then he hitched a ride and the trucker who gave him a ride was pulled over by the highway patrol because he had skipped away station. But Steve kept his cool and he made it to San Jose, where he bought food and clothing. I would imagine it was would be about twelve o'clock by now And I was starting to feel Paranoia and thinking that every little airplane that flew over, every car was looking for me. And so I found a big clump of bushes and Craled up in the bushes and took a little nap He got up into the mountains and it took him weeks, but he walked. and I mean he walked almost five hundred miles all the way to the town of Rermona, just north of San Diego. Steve's originally from Florida, but he lived in the San Diego area when he was in the service. He hadn't told anyone in the prison about his plans, but he had told his mom and dad They came and visited me and they said they hadn't been notified that I had escaped other than the fact that you, I told them I was going to So mom gave me some more money. We said our goodbyes and I said, I don't know when the next time I'll see you. And they left, I'm kind of afraid to be moving around because this is you know, considered my hometown. and obviously the cops should have been notified. Steve bought a car and he started driving He made it to El Paso on the first day. And then kept going. When I got to Austin, I saw builder screens for high rise construction and When I saw those, I knew that I'd get a job and I knew I wasn't going to go any further Steve Wilson became one of few men to successfully escape from oldld Folsome State prrison He was out of prison, but He wasn't really free authorities were after him and he knew they weren't going stop looking for him ever. Yeah, you know, and he wouldn't be able to see his mom and dad again. He couldn't hang out with old friends, and he was definitely going to have to assume other names along the way Al be looking over his shoulder I mean, E. He wasn't going to have a normal life. Now, that's just it. If you escape and you don't get killed trying to do so, you're not going to get what all of us want. a chance at a normal life And that's something that a lot of us behind bars fantasize about. Getting out and leading a normal life What are some of the things you think about when you fantasize about your life when you're out U O the top of my head it's unrealistic, but I think about Just getting out of San Quentin, jumping in the water and swimming to my yacht and going around the world Fes We ask some other guys in our story, what they fantasize about. And they're not quite as ambitious as UE H's Philip My idea of freedom in its most simplest and most beautiful form Is me sitting on a couch The wife home on one side, the kids on the other side and we're all just sitting there, probably haven't came back just from getting ice cream and watching a never ending story kindind of like that movie too Here's what Ron's been fantasizing about I look forward to falling in love and just holding that person And I don't even mean in a sexual way. just to feel that person The warmth of that person U I look forward to that. And on the lighter side I want to get a dog We're gonna take a break here and when we get back, we're going to hear what kind of life Steve led as an escape felon All right, what'd you think? Man, every voice we've heard so far is free. From the listener alert, which is David Josse to every other person in there. Yeah I know Ron's self who we heard Ron sometimes he runs programs. He runs program. He runs a veterans program. He's doing very well. Phil Mlendez he goes back into the prisons doing very well. Man, everybody is Do doinging somethingamn good I love that it has the classic I think of it as a Curtis Fox move. where you sort of tell enough of the main story and then they're like, but we're going to come back to that. Yeah. We sort of like I can't imagine with all the books that they don't allow in prison, they have a book in there about how to escape from the prison a book a few books, a few books. I wonder if they still have those books. We're due to go up to fulsom soon. Oh we need to go to thebrary to the library and check. Maybe after they heard this, they they too or they might got one in their own heel I guess CDCR didn't have any hesitations about us releasing this episode with a explanation of an escape? N, it happened. Maybe they't doc fans anymore. Yeah.' documented. Anything else you heard in the first half, Any edits, any notes? Yes, a lot. I was talking fast. And I probably sounded a little reedy in some areas. You know, sound design was a little dense back to back to back to back to back in size I liked this sound design when he's telling the story of getting out. thought I was really good. Its apenseful. Yeah, exactly.. and composed for the moment. And speaking of people who are out couple pieces of nice just solo guitar in there. Yeah. Not an the escape part, but that must have been Phil Philip. P just got out with Philip a year or two. Yeah, he just got out just talked to him the another day. Yeah I noticed we mentioned everybody's crime and I can't remember if that we were just doing that as a practice in the first season O if we were talking about these guys parooled was it I think it was more I think it was more of the parole. Yeah. And I think it could have been germane to this based on they were going to the board and why they were going to bo. Maybe that's why becausecause we did go into Steve's crime Yeah in detail, but maybe that's because it was sort of in the frame of the parole, although it's interesting that they like The main story doesn't really have that much to do with parole. sort of like you slide an escape story into an episode about parole. O slide parole into episode aboutout Escape. Right All right, let's take a break and then we'll come backwards into the second part. Y. On all of it with me, Alison Stewart, we'll talk about art, music, theater, literature, history, food. Well, all of it. Hear in depth, insightful interviews with authors like Zadie Smith, musicians like Steve Earl, actors like Kate Winslet and beyond. You never know who you'll hear next on all of it, but it's always worth listening. That's all of it. available wherever you get your podcasts Today's show is sponsored by strawberry. me. Success in your career means different things to different people, you know, like learning new skills so you can get a different job, or how to develop a better work family balance. or how to work effectively as part of a team. And it can be hard to figure out all these things While you're working, doing things the same way, day in, day out That's where career coaching can really help. Career coaching from strawberry. me can give you the clarity, strategy, and accountability to turn goals into reality. Your strawberry. me coach will help you identify obstacles that are holding you back Develop a step by step plan and support you as you make intentional moves towards success This coach helped me create a plan for each of my goals. Every time we meet, we review my progress, which helps me stay accountable. Erlon, I'm really impressed. I love the updates you're giving me And my coach is really insightful about team dynamics, which is something I'm interested in She's given me a lot to think about and some really thoughtful readings and exercises to help clarify things that I'm pondering right now. Go to strawberry. mE slash ear hustle and get fifty percent off your first coaching session. That's strawberry. mE slash ear hustle. It's like therapy for your career. It is Listeners, do you want even more ear hustle? And even fewer ads like zero, zilt, nothing, Nada If so, subscribe to Ear Hustle Plus Ear Hustle Plus subscribers get access to ad free episodes and bonus episodes. Our Ear Hustle Plus episodes are really fun Subscribers can find out what's happening with people they've heard on previous episodes, and they can also send in questions for us to answer And me and Nigel get to sit here and chop it up with our producer Bruce and just just talk about whatever If you want to hear more of that, subscribe to eararhustle plus at earhustSq dot com slash plus or directly in Apple Podcasts. And thanks for supporting the show. We appreciate y'all And send in some provocative questions. Spacy questions Being on escape, probably the first thing you wake up with and go to bed with every night is Wow, I made it to another day But there becomes point in time And u where you start to feel comfortable. After his escape from Old Folsom, Steve made his way to Austin. He found work there and met his future wife. This really nice lady, we got along really well. And after a year or so we moved from Texas back down to my home in Florida And I told her who I was And u We bought a piece of ground, We bought an acre in an enated community on a lake, and I built a house I had built her A new family. withith her and her son who I was with and raised from the time he was two until he was almost eleven. and her family that adopted me as one of them Sounds kind of like a normal life Not really. I realizeed, I've always realized when I escaped that You know, it's only gonna to last so long. There will be an end And so I kind of burnt my candle at both ends It lasted for years. Steve ran a small maintenance and construction company. He traveled and he fit in with his community. Now, it sounds kind of normal, right? We went shopping in town. Not really. I picked up the TV guide one time as we were in the checkout lane and And I looked for America's mostost wanted, I think it was playing on Sunday nights then And the first thing I saw was my name Steve Wilson be featured My heart stopped. So TV Guide and America's Most Wanted tipped off the fugitive Steve Wilson Steve immediately went on the run again. He moved to Australia, then to England, where he convinced his wife to join him. I've got my British citizenship, I've got my Australian citizenship, and I figured out how to bring you over here and make you a citizen too. And she says, okay I said, the next thing I need you to do is to empty out my account, which she had her name on. And I said, brring me my money. I said, just make sure you don't take more than ten thousand at a time. takeake less Either she didn't listen to him or she didn't think it was important because she ended up taking out more than ten thousand dollars. one withdraw. And that was the problem. The FBI was monitoring that account. They tipped off Scotland Yard and she was followed from the moment she got off that plane. Y. When she met up with Steve at the hotel in London He got arrested immmediately Well, I escaped on august second, nineteen eighty four. Eight years later, in nineteen ninety two, I was returned to New Folsam and put in the hole So that's Steve's one fifteen That's the rule violation that will come up at his parole hearing and he'll have to answer for that yet again And he's also going to have to talk about his life before he murdered his father in law He'll have to talk about the murder itself You also have to talk about what he's been doing since he's been back in prison after his escape. Yeah. guys have to explain what sort of work they've been doing to understand themselves, to change. There's a whole bunch of vocabulary for this inside of prison. Yeah, you guys talk about like insight and accountability all the time. And some guys really do take it on, but some guys don't and the board is going to be listening and looking hard to determine what's really going on inside. What do I think my chances are at parole I think that I've I prepared myself. I've done some deep study and research into myself And I understand what it was and the way my belief system was that allowed me to take such a drastic step Um I do courses over and over again. I do AA and A have been doing it for over ten years. even though I have I've gotten everything from it that I can get. I mean, I live it every day. I ask myself every day a question. I question myself. and I say, you know have I addressed my defects? A I trying to control anybody? Am I trying to take advantage? And then I also ask myself, have I done anything positive today For myself, I would say, I did a lot of writing. This is Danny Plunkett again. He's been involved with restorative justice programs, which is about dialogue between victims and offenders. Here's how he prepared to face the board I would just write. I would write about the crime I would write about who I was leading up to the crime And also a lot of victim empathy exercises, just trying to write on what it must have been like for them and trying to imagine maybe What it's been like for them since the crime, since the trial, that kind of stuff At Danny's parole hearing, he faced a commissioner and a deputy commissioner. So we walk into the room and there's directly in front of me, there's two seats the farthest one my lawyer sitting in And then the one that I'm going to sit in and there's two tables and on the left and That's where the commissioner and the deputy commissioner and then The back of the room is just a line of people. And I can't look, I can't look at them That row of people behind Danny, they're called Vns, victims, necks of Ken, and Danny was not allowed to look at him. He couldn't acknowledge their presence in any way. Danny can't address anyone except the commissioners At Danny's hearing, the victims representatives got a chance to speak And I got to hear a little Oh The young man that I murdered life before And then I got to hear from the victims two victims who were at the crime and hear their experiences And I got it. I got it all. Um I got to hear the family's history You know, I hear my victim' life growing up in great detail And You know, that's really restoreative justice except for the fact that I couldn't look at them. They had family pictures. I couldn't look and it was really Tough not to look. But I got to hear the pain and the heartache and the loss, you know. The empty stocking at Christmas, the empty chair at Thanksgiving. Um It's it was huh It was a very powerful experience, and I'm very grateful for that Guys find out pretty quick if they're getting a date often within minutes after the hearing. Danny did not get a date I struggle with whether or not I deserve to get out of prison because of the harm that I've caused in a life I took that can't be returned and relived I want out. there's a lot of things I want to do U You know, but on the other hand, I have a pretty good life in here at San. Quentin, I've been able to I don know Find me for the first time in my life, somebody that I'm proud of. I have a rewarding rich, rewarding life with so many programs and relationships, you know, with people and even some people locally who, you know I've met since I've been here that come to visit. and outside volunteers are so many outside volunteers. So I have a rich life in here Really look forward to having a rich life out of here Danny will have another chance before the board in three years Here's what happened at Philip's hearing. And just a reminder, Philip has been in prison for twenty years for a double murder he committed when he was nineteen years old One of the things that they said They said, you know, mister Melinda, well, they said, you know, there's no getting around the crime. It's a horrendous crime. and it is. And I agreed wholeheartedly when he said that, and I agree with it now to this day. But when they talked about suitability factors, you know, they said that you have done a lot of work. You've done a lot of work on yourself. You have insight. And one of the things that I did well, they said was You didn't minimize anything Which means that when it came to every part of my negative behavior, I owned it and was able to trace it back to my childhood. and that's insight too. Phillip's hearing lasted about three and a half hours And you know, you didn't talked about all your traumas and it's painful. It's sad. it hurts And then you have to wait. And those fifteen to twenty minutes just seem like forever And they come and get you and they say, all right, let's reconvene Sure enough, they walked me in there. they said, Mr. Mellendez, we find you suitable for parole and You know, you feel the weight of the world Come off your chest Do you think you deserve to get out? He I don't know I don't know about deserving Deserving, that's a hard word to really to stomach. just based on my accountability, just based on my understanding of my victims impact or the impact that had on my victims lives I couldn't really say I ever deserve anything, right? Do I want to get out? Absolutely. Do I have a family? Do I have a community that I want to fix, that I want to restore? Yes, absolutely. And for them and for the community, I would like to see myself out. I would like to see myself out, but I don't think I don't think I could ever say that I deserve to be out The reaction inside of San Quentin to Philip getting his date has been mixed. He says most of his fellow prisoners have been supportive, but he's heard complaints One of the worst ones I've heard was like, I can't believe that MFR got a date. You know, he killed two people. And then the only comfort that guy could get is just keep thinking out loud. This is what somebody told me. He kept thinking about it. It wass like, well, at least the governor will take his date. That didn't happen. In September, Phil Melendez got out of prison and he's living in Northern California. Maybe he's already had a chance to watch the never ending story on the couch with his wife and kids. Yeah, I'm had to catch that movie on my yacht And I used to tell myself, you know, I can't wait to get away from these frreaking turds Ron's self is still waiting for his date to arrive And now is looking like that's going to happen. I'm finding myself realizing I'm going to miss a lot of these people, especially the veterans Before he came to prison for attempted murder Ron was in the military like I' Low only motion my fuck, I'm leaving them behind And I don't like that. That bothers me. And it surprises me because I didn't think that would bother me Here's the latest on Ron after he got his date, He had to wait months to see if it would pass review Just last Friday, he was called to go see his counselor I almost threw up I mean, I could feel it in my throat. It was just like, holy shit But I get there and the councor comes running out. and he's like, yeah, the governor review your case today and he took no action. I'm like, cool, so what am I getting out? I don't know. He says, I don't know. Did you gota sign these papers. On october nineteenth, twenty seventeen, after twenty three years in prison, Ron self walked free I think he's coming back to prison though. What think he's coming back here for sure? I do. Well, you actually are right, because he founded a program Veterans Healing Veterans, and he's going to be visiting veterans in prisons across the state Okay, how you doing today? I'm a little tired, but I'm healthy. Back to Steve Wilson and his board hearing. We interviewed him before the hearing and after It didn't go well for him. My feelings on that I was hurt. I really expected to get a date He was philosophical about it, though. It seems that the older that I get The more I'm kind of living in my memories, I can go any place I want, I can do anything I want. I can relive all my experiences as long as I don't lose my memory And that is a freedom. They can lock the body up until it dies. But they can't lock the mind up Thanks to Steve Wilson for sharing this story with us. And also big thanks to Danny Plunket, Philip Mlendez, and Ron Self for telling us about their experience with the parole board. Sound designed on this episode was a group effort. The music contributed by Antoine Williams, David Jazzie, E. Phil Phillips and Erline Woods myself Masi Miller is our outside production advisor. Our story editor is Curtis Fox, and our executive producer for Radiotopia is Julie Shapiro. We also want to thank Warden Ron Davis and Larry Schneider who runs the media lab we work in And as you know Every episode has to be approved by this guy here. I am Lieutenant Sam Robinson, the public Information Officer at San Quentin State Prison, and I prorove this story. The final episode of seeason one, I'm really looking forward to hearing Well, maybe I am. I'm not really sure because there's been a lot of work this season. But given that we move forward with season two, I'm really looking forward to see what What new stories develop out of here hustle It feels so weird to not say next time on ear hustle be I'm not ready for this. Me either. But Don't get too damn nge because we got plans to drop a few surprises in the feed leading up to next season And we've heard from so many listeners about the original music we use in our episodes. and we're going to dig into that and share some of those songs in full. And Maybe we might do a Q and A Episode. Or something. Right. You know, we've been getting so many kites. I've got so many to go through. And I want to give a shout out to Jefferson County Public schoolchools and the more traditional schools specifically. because they have a teacher there that did a project with her class and we got like sixty two kites in one day. So keep those kites coming and let us know what you want to hear Okay, E, I know we can't get specific about what we're working on for next season, but what's one story you want to do? Minisrying on Death Row.