Logan and Anthony Share Their Stories

Before we get to the episode, we just want to say thank you. Seriously, thank you. You've probably heard us talking about our spring fundraiser and how your support helps us make more episodes of beer hustle, while also allowing us to bring our live show and our storytelling workshops into prisons around the country. And one of the best parts of the fundraiser is hearing from you all We love the comments you share with us when you donate. like This note from Lena after R orny ass Named by you Aore your podcast and I'm grateful for all the work you do and hugs are necessary and life saving Nothing cheesy about them. That's. That's right. Okay, or this one from another L named Laura, amazing podcast. I truly appreciate the work all of you do. inside and outside. Thank you for including the women Honestly though, only a small percentage of listeners donate less than one percent It's tough out there, we know, and we get it. That's why we are so appreciative of the gifts we do get. Your donations help us do the work we do Visiting prisons, telling stories, and bringing you voices that aren't often heard And every single gift helps us get closer to our goal of one ousand don. But time is running out before the end of the fundraiser and the end of the fiscal year. We need your help before the end of this month. Donate today at earhustlesq dot com slash donate or by following the link in the episode notes And in case we haven't said it enough Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you It means so much to us to be able to do this work and we couldn't do it without you. No we couldn't It's warm out there. and summer always changes how I get dressed. I want clothes that feel lighter, more breathable, clothes that are easy still look good. And that's why I keep going back to Quints. They focus on high quality clothes that feel and look amazing. And Erlon, I actually just bought this pair of like lightweight jeans. I love them. I'm taking them on my summer trip. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you want something even lighter or different material, Quintz has European linen pants and shirts that are the perfect warm weather upgrade, starting at just thirty four dollars. Everything at Quintince is priced fifty percent to eighty percent less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlees So you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And Quintince goes way beyond clothing Custom upholstered sofas, ceramic cookware, premium bedding, It's the kind of brand you recommend to everyone for everything. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quQints. com slash your hustle. for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns now available in Canada too. That's QuINcE dot com slash ear hustle for free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns Qints dot com slash ear hustle The show is supported by Odu When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing Odu solves this It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odu is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need Odu at O doo. com. O d O o. com Hi, my name is Al Shotz. I'm a musician who lives in Baltimore, Maryland, and the tour manager for Ear Hustle's Lve show Recording this in Philadelphia where we have a live show tonight This episode of Year Hustle contains language and content that may not be appropriate for all listeners. Discretion is advised. So Nge. Yes. Last week I was in Southern Cal. Yeah and I went to this high school called Olympic High School. you know, to try and talk to a group of younger Younger mees So like to kind of give them advice or life lessons? try to utilize my bad decisions in my life to help them alter their choices in life. You know what I'm saying? Tell them what I've been through, you know, especially going into high school, I told them like, you know, raaise your hand if you're seventeen. I went to prison when I was seventeen. Yeah It was basically me just trying to offer some type of, you know, honest opinions about life, opinions about the hood, opinions about taking that trajectory. So that was my mission Yeah, Erline, it's interesting that you did that. I often wonder You know, do people really change based on hearing other people's experiences I mean, I think it may resonate affect one or two that's in the deep end, you know. And that's kind of what this episode is about who have been through hard stuff hoping that they can be, you know, the one that keeps someone else from going down that same path. Right I'm Nigel Por and I'm Irline Woods, and this is Ear hustled from PRX's Radiotopia. I couldn't even think of a smell. I've never smelled it. I' never smelled smell it. It' some new shit I remember this day, we were at North Kern State Prison. Exactly. And North Kern is in California's Central Valley. Is it just kind of like north of Bakersfield? Yep, ye o. Right just right there. Super farm country. Yes. And it has its own distinct aroma Can Nge you need to explain what this smell like? Okay. So the smell here, imagine an old ashtay. There's some old butts in it. It's been sitting around for a couple of weeks. Cigarette butts are butts. Cigarette butts.. So that's the base smell. And then the middle note is cow manure, but I don't know, there's no cows anywhere Then there's like a bag of exhaust from a bunch of cars that's been put on top of it. If it had a color, it would definitely be the color of ashes. If you don't wan to eat, this is a great place to hang out And said don't do none of your lungs. Your respiratory system makes you healthier. Oh, they That's Lieutenant Huckleberry. and I don't know if he'd likek us talking about this smell. But maybe he was just eager to get us to focus on why we were actually there and what we were there to talk about whichich wasn't how it smelled. It was about a program that's happening here in California. peer support program So Huckleberry took us into this kind of library, small library that was functioning as a classroom, and there were three incarcerated guys sitting there all facing their teacher. And they introduced themselves pleas.. This is Nigel back here.. The guys had these big textbooks in front of them, and they were going over a quiz that they'd recently taken. The role of peer support and trauma informed care includes all except I think it would be see unsupported feedback. Yeah. Yeah. Clearly yeah, that one. Good job. Sounds like Godj you percent. good. This is a counseling course, peer support counseling. Yeah, it's a eight week program cover stuff like how to help fellow incarcerated people with like, say, addiction, loss and grief,, training opportunities that might be around the institution, life skills, you know, stuff like that. Yeah, basically like how do you use their own life experience to help people who might be going through, you know, some of the same stuff? So those are the six principles that all the peerport specialists should be familiar with. Perfect.. Number two, it is important to develop settings And activities that ensure physical and emotional safety. Tue. true. Absolutely true. Why do you think that is? Well because want her to be safe you know when you're having an interview with them, you want them to feel safe and comfortable and be able to express themselves better that way. Absolutely. because they've been through trauma, so you don't want to re traumatize them of put them in a space they don't feel safe Eon, what did you make this program? I mean, I think it's a good idea, you know?, because a lot of time, you know, incarcerated people You know, no what other incarcerated people are going through Right. Right And do you think maybe they feel safer talking to someone who's not staff In some circumstances. I would say, yeah becausecause at the end of the day Another incarcerated person may not turn them in for their thoughts. No matter what the thoughts are. It made me think about how this is kind of a formal version of what you see happening on the yard all the time. Right where you guys are doing labs and talking. It's the same thing But This is just a different capacity where Once they finish this program, these guys can work in prison as counselors. You know, they get paid by the state and they wear these yellow jackets that say peer support. like, hey You can come hollow. I'm open for business. Exactly. And so during the class we were eyeing the guys trying to decide who to focus on. And this guy Daniel stood out because he seemed like a leader type and he was really open. And so after class, we asked him to come sit down and talk with us Could you describe what you look like Uh Yeah, I guess I'm I'm six foot five. White And the goatee, like shoulder length hair. Yeah Kind of like kind of look Germanish, I guess, that is the way people say. You have like a seventies vibe tonight? seventies vibe right now. Yeah. someone that looked like Jesus other day. Oh, you know who I thought you looked like? Did you ever see the Big Lebowski? Yeah, yeah, you look like the dude. Yeah. And will you introduce yourself, please Um, ye Yeah, I'm Daniel. I'm from, uh I'm from Sanrdino, California. So how long have you been incarcerated? On this rightight now I've been down ten years. Yeah, evenven on this trip right now I've been to San Quentin. I was in San Quentin. in twenty nineteen Really? Yeah. I didn't, you know, I didn't. I was still getting high at the time It seemed like there was a lot of drugs there I didn't really like the experience, you know, like I strung out I wasn't coming out myself, I wasn't going to programs. I wasn't dealing with like any of the stuff that they had to offer you there I was so into my addiction still, I just had to get out of there How do you think you would have been if I met you in twenty nineteen I was probably sixty pound lighter. probablyb had track marks probably looks pale Would you have spoken to us if we wanted't?, I felt like a creature, you know, if I would have hid from you guys Gu like that tends to kind of hide out. So those are guys I definitely don't see. He won't see them. They usually probably don't even come out the building unless They have a reason to come out the building and that reason might be to re up Uh. Can you get anything you want in prison? And mean it just depends where you're at I ended up u in crisis bed. and I was just like told mananel, I't want to go back. This is what's going on with me. I'm just I'm getting high, like I'm stressing out. I keep waking up at night with anxiety. it's like the first time in my life I ever had like any kind of mental health issues and like I was over it. You know what the crisis band is? No Chris' bed is almost like when When you're on suicide watch You know what I'm saying? Like you're really conflicted to where you can't trust what's going on in your mind. You're having like a brain to be watched. Usually they'll sit you in the bed and staff or nurses will sit there in watchight So, you know, we hearing him say that, it seemed like things got real bad for him. And eventually he was able to get transferred out of SanQuentin and get himself clean. Is it hard to stop using in prison S it is, especially I had a Sellie that was using and one day he came home and had some he had a little bit of dope and he' like, you want to get high. and I was like, you know what dude I'm I just stopped. Why? What made you? I just talked to my daughter and you know, I talked to my family and it was just like You know, they like they kept telling them that I'm coming home, but now I got more time. And you know, my daughter's asking me. she's like, You know, I what's going on? likeike, you know, and she doesn't really understand like Like time. so she's like, you're coming home in ninety days. hundred days. what is it? you know, because she's still young, you know? I'm like a thousand days and she's like, o my God, they're never coming home, you know, so it kind of like madeade me think, you know, and is al right, I'm done ' been doing this since I was nineteen years old in and out of prison. I' me be sitting here at sixty five if I don't stop now How old are you I'm forty four Before he came to prison, Daniel supported himself and his drug addiction, Robin Houses Do you mind I asked you a couple questions about beries Sure. What is it like to go into someone's house like that Like do think about who they are or You know what? When you're in your addiction, you really don't. You know now that Now that I've done it and I think about it, I feel shame, I feel remorse You know, like what do you think that people went through when like they come home and all their stuff that they worked hard for is gone? Yeah. You know, so I guess not so much thinking about those people, but are you looking at personal things? Are you scared someone's gonna to come in? Are you like making value judgments on the people? Are you No, not really. You just like You just think Like what can I get like real fast and get out of here? So where are the best places to look? Um, you know I always thought about that. I thought about like haaving like a seminar of some type of telling people how they can keep their houses protected from burglars because my thing was I would always look for like corner houses with like wooden fences or like hedges so you could like get behind the house and like people can't see you that are the neighbors. You know people that have windows open L, you know, I've even been to places where they got signs on the window that say don't like we got cameras, or we got alarm systems and most of the time they don't. I'm just curious, you ever broken a house and somebody was in there I have one time I went in a house and It was dark and I went in there and I had a flashlight and I was like going in the rooms and I was like looking. And I walked in the lastash room and I put the flashlight on the bed and some guy was there and he opened his eyes. He's like, what are you doing? And I was like, Please. You know I said like Please looking for like a guy. And then I just like ran out of the house and left So did you ever like make any food or use the bathroom? I have. I've eaten there. Yeah. stag just I've never like taken a shower to use the bathroom before, but I have gotten food before Biolog you remember what you got You know what I really? I think I could do some cookies, some pizza one time I mean, now these people are going to come home and now they don't even want to eat the stuff in their fridge because they don't know what I did to it Did it make like a mess or just No I've never really made I've never been like a destructive, like destructed people's stuff or anything like that. Did you look for drugs in the house You know what? I knowo. I'm never like, You like medicine cabinets? No, you know, I think about it now that you say something, but no, I've never it never even crossed my mind really. My thing was always meth, like, you know, so I've always been a upper person Howftten do you get to ask a burglar about his tricks to the trade? You know what I mean? I know what you're saying. I mean, Daniel, he was a real interesting cat. Totally. But let's get back to the reason we were actually there So now you're doing this pure support. Why did you want to do that? I had seen the doctor passing out the pamphlets to So apply And I had asked him, I was like, well, what is pure support? And he told me, you know that you can get certified by California and it's to help other people. And So I grabbed one for them and I filled it out within that like half an hour I didn't even know that you got paid for it. I didn't even know anything. I just wanted something else to help change my life. What is all the stuff that you've learned thus far I pretty much learned about everything in prison from the healthcare, from the bottom up. So like any forms, anything that inmates need help with, grievances And then we to like now we're learning about SudDs, substance use disorder drugs, how people grew up and different stuff like that. And right now we're learning coping skills So what is something that you learned about yourself that's surpisool. I like to help other people I really didn't know that about myself. You know, I always felt like I was standoffish, like I'm alone, like I said. And now through this program, I'm showing up I'm able to like actually help people and I like it. So. So do you think you were always somebody who liked to help people No, I was never I was always like standoffish or I would try to avoid people. I was always anxious or I felt like ashamed maybe to like answer questions and maybe say something stupid or not answer the question right You know, or I'd get angry if I told somebody something and they ask somebody else, you know, but now it gives me some type of inner peace I can imagine why it feels good for Daniel to give advice. I mean He's been down some dark ass roads and I think he's learned from him. Yeah, and maybe it's extra satisfying to have wisdom to share when you haven't gotten a lot of help in your own life I got a letter from my mom when I first got to prison, and she was like, you know Prob w't get a see you get married. Pro won't never get a see do this, you know? So of All the things you wouldn't be able to do. Can you tell us more about that letter? You make me tear up. ye, she just It just broke my heart, you know, like I was sitting in a cell and she's like, you know, I'm never gonna see you like Iike be the man that I want you to be. never gonna see you like get married and all this stuff because she thought I was gonna be in prison forever, you know? So I didn't know how to deal with it, you know, what than than use and try to like block that out So I think I ripped it up, I don't know. I was just going through a emotional time. Do you ever wish that you still had it You know, I don't know, it just made me feel some emotions that I really didn't want to feel. so maybe it was better that it was gone. Are you mad at her for sending that to you? No, because you know, like I don't know, Mbe she could have been more supportive in some ways My mom's never really been that supportive, but I've always been a mom's boy because it's just been me and her So You know, so like it kind of crushed me, but, you know, at the same time she could have she could have maybe like I said, been more supportive. Yeah. What's your relationship with her right now I mean, we have a rocky relationship My mom still uses it to this day. You know, she's sixty nine, I'm seventy years old, you know? And so I can't be around her. Like I can't I can't, you know, I can go there. I can visit. I can say, Hey, mom, what's up? You need anything, you know? But like I can't stay around her because I don't want to be around that You know, but she knows I love her and I know she loves me. so Would you ever send her a letter like that No I know that I can't tell her stuff that she don't w want to hear. I know I can't argue with her. I know I can't try to fix her finances because like anything I say to her that she don't like, she's just going to hang up on me or she's just not going to talk to me you remember When you were younger the first time you realize that your mom was staling drugs I walked in a room one time and I seen her like some powder on a mirror And I wasm like, what are they doing, you know And I just kind of realized after time that, you know, I started seeing them smoke weed and I started seeing them up all night, you know realizing that they were all getting high If you came to yourself in your addiction would you listen to yourself as a pure counselor. I probablyb not You think at the time that you don't you think you know everything or you don't want to hear anything you know, so There's got I know there would be some way to get through to me. Burnt I don't know if I have the answer to that. I think that My experience and my strength and my hope from the past can be a roadmap to recovery for people that haven't been through what I've been through yet So you're feeling optimistic? Yeah I'm excited about what my future's going be like, you know, not only in here, but out there as well. If we come back and want to catch up with you and see how you're doing, are you open for that? Yeah, I love it. Is B Daniels, a cool dog? Yeah, yes I really was excited to get back there, you know in a couple of months and see where he was with the course and like what other stuff he was learning and just catch him out there doing his counseling and his peer support. Yeah So we made plans to come back to North Karean State prison in a few months to see how Daniel was doing. That's coming up after the break. radiotopia colleagues and favorite office maidates, the Kitchen sisters, have a new series rolling out over the next year called quQuilts as Monuments. Their first story chronicles the So their Names Project, an unlikely collaboration between an African American preacher, a white federal court judge, and a group of rural Alabama quilters Recently, hundreds of long forgotten pre Civil War names of enslaved and segregated bllack members of churches across Alabama were uncovered in a Baptist archive. The Sther Names proroject is bringing people together across the state Ebroider, memorialize and bring these names alive on quilts. when I went to working on the quilt I said now these people can speak out amongst what I'm doing project is kind of help us remember It's always good to have a memorial. You don't hurt the pers It was something that we owned. It was something that we owned up to And we went away with our history Maybe will become a monument. The kitchen sisters present S their names, quilts as Muments, now available wherever you get your podcast Listeners, do you want even more ear hustle And even fewer ads like zero, Zilch, nothing, Na If so, subscribe to Ear Hustle Plus Ear Hustle Plus suubbscribers get access to ad free episodes and bonus episodes. Our earar Hustle Plus episodes are really fun. Subscribers can find out what's happening with people they've heard on previous episodes and they can also send in questions for us to answer And me and Nigel get to sit here and chop it up with our producer Bruce and just just talk about whatever. If you want to hear more of that, subscribe to earar Hustle plus at earhustleSq dot com slash plus or directly in Apple Podcasts. And thanks for supporting the show. We appreciate y'all. And send in some provocative questions. Spacy questions. How would you describe yourself like just your sort of vibe reat question. I don't know, I think you would be better at answering that than I would Well, Nigel, his program surely changed Daniel. He sounds like a different guy, doesn't he? I may sound calm. I was furious. Be we didn't get told that Daniel had Left and right. Le the building So to be clear, this was five months after our first visit. We hadd come back to North Kern to catch up with Daniel and we wanted to see him in action. I mean, that's the story we were planning on telling. But when you work in prisons, things change all the time. you know, peopleeople get transferred. so that's what happened. When we got there, we realized Daniel was gone Yeah, and it's not like North Korean is gonna call us and say, you know, just so you know, don't bother to make this big drive up here because Daniel isn't here anymore Now, there's no convenience like that. No. So it was incredibly disappointing and deeply frustrating. Of the three guys that we met on our last trip, there was only one left. A guy named Tyron You all the two coworkers and did it moving somewhere Are you the only peer support? I'm the only one left on the yt, yes, sir. And what was it like for you when they left Did it have any effect on you? No, it didn't. I like to see them leave. I don't want to see anybody in this environment So if they have an opportunity to obtain some sort of freedom, It's always a pleasure So did your case looad get Big biger? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So you got everybody. I got everybody. But I like it that way though. So how many people are you working with? Oh my gosh, the whole yard. So whoever whoever comes to me, whoever I reach out to If they need services, I'm there for them I'm guessing that you're African American. I could be wrong Uh, yeah. Yeah. So prison is based sometime on especially the incarcerated population on segregation. Do you see that being a problem in the work you do I don't see it personally. If it's there I do my best to ignore it. I do recognize that I have a stimulus. so when I walk into a room, people may have thoughts that go through their head or a bias or a feeling associated with that. And then when I open my mouth, there's another a stimulus that's associated with that, but I try to allow myself to be as open to all cultures. So what do you think is the stimulus that people key into when you walk into a room? That's not of my concern. I know, but I'm curious what you think I don't know. I do my best to ignore that becausecause that would be something that would get in the way of me providing services. Okay, but there's no way you could investigate that question with us. It's such an interesting one about perception. And then why I'm interested in it is you said that people have a different stimulus when they hear me speak. And I'm curious what you think the difference between how people read you when they see you versus how they read you when they hear you. I ignore that kind of stuff Um I'm sorry I can't give you more on that It's just for me, u Someone just says that's interested in behavior. I love all those little clues about stuff. So it's really a question about how you perceive yourself Can you talk about how you perceive yourself through the way You'm veryy open minded, very I find myself I don't know. I don't really talk about myself much Try to be as humble as possible. I'm a God fearing person So do you mind ask you some questions about that? Sure. So talking about yourself Is seen as arrogant It think so. Really? Sure. Why? It's vain. It's vain to learn to understand yourself. But talking about myself is To me is a form of vanity. It's hard because when we talk to someone, we really want to We wanted to know who they are and understand them better. I would think part of being a counselor is getting people to open up and talk about themselves. Y. So what happens if someone comes to you and they have the feelings you have that they don't want to talk about themselves? I have to respect that. But then how do you work with them Could would be there to work with if they don't want to talk about themselves? It's not always about talking about yourself. It's about talking about your problems and what issues that you may be facing. How is that different than talking about yourself We were kind of hitting the wall with this cy I mean,, you know, we was trying to understand like what make him takeick make him want to do what he wanted to do. Yeah, exactly. But he wasn't letting us in on any of his secrets know what I'm say He close. He didn't tell us what his past was like. He didn't tell us nothing. Yeah, with Daniel, the conversation was so fluid and open and that's what we're always looking for when we do a story And with Tyron We just kept hitting one dead end after another So we thought Maybe if we could watch him at work, we'd see a different side of him. So Amy, our editor, asked him if he'd be open to that I wonder if we could go out and sit with you on the yard and see who shows up. Watch you do your job. Everybody's going to show up But basically just sort of like see you in action a little bit. Is that all right? Can I say no? You can'' to you. No we can't No say no. Okay. And you the only peer support person, so you gotta take more this guy. After some back and forth. Tyrone offered to go to the housing unit and recruit a few guys. So that's what he did And about ten minutes later, he came back with three guys H Hi Ricardo, how are you I'm doing well, brother. How you doing? I'm right. You go by TJ on their, right? Yes I do. TJ with the Bararber The first guy name was Ricardo, AKA TJ. He was super well groomed. He was really present and friendly. It seemed like he was happy to be there. Yep. And it turned out Ricardo had some news. So how much time do you have left I get deported next month. What? I deported next month? Thank God. Okay. Do you have do you have any goals? Do you have any plans? Yeah, so luckily, I knew ahead of time when I was in old Folsom The Iice was going to come get me. So I got to plan with my family. I got a studio already waiting for me. My car' out there. Okay. My plan is to open up a barbers shop. Okay. I know that sometimes planning some things in the future don't go as planned. so I'm trying to take it one day at a time but also setting myself with realistic goals What did important you two They're deporting me to Tijuana. I'm from Tijuana. That's why they call me TJ. When the last time you been in Chan? I was two years old How do you feel about that? Honestly, at first I was depressed, I cried. I' got my daughter, I got all my friends. My whole life is out here But Now that I came to accept it, I'm actually really excited about getting out there because I've never had the opportunity to Fulfill my full potential, Do make sense When you said you were getting deported, I was kind of shocked I wass like, what? That seems like a big deal. Yeah. no. I know a lot of people actually hear like my people think the same way, but Once I got past that There was like a sense of peace that came over me. I feel like since I've been down time is of essence. I'd rather not waste my time in a facility trying to fight something to stay in the country where I'm P probably still going to be in the same. What he didn't have to fight? What if justight if didnt Yeah I don't know how many years there' probably be a new president. Yeah, yeah ye. And if you could just wait that out and you knew Like and you wouldn't know. it'd be a gamble, but maybe if you waited three years, the laws would change and you would get out and you'd be able to go back to ver I think it still falls in with the time is of essence. I would want to get out to my country so I could use that time to Be somebody. Yeah, you know, and they b moma proud In a case like Ricardo's, there's not a whole lot that Tyrone can do. You know what I'm saying? Other than make sure that Ricardo had all the paperwork that he needed. Exactly. So then Tyrone brought in the next guy kid named Logan And Nigel. since you're the Descriptionist, if that's a word. like that Why don't you describe Logan? So as I remember, Logan looked like he was about fourteen. He was a white guy Did he have tattoos on his neck? Yeah, he had some tattoos. He was a young cat, still trying to figure things out Did you expect to talk to me today? Not really, but Yeah, I wanted to So you're famous to me, and you're famous to me because you're one of the youngest people on the yard. How old are you? twenty twentywenty years old. How do you feel about being twenty and Being around so many older people This is not the life I wanted to go around, you know? I wanted to be out there with my family, but You know I was around the wrong crowd made wrong decisions? What would you have done differently? I see it The way I was acting, the only thing that would have changed me is coming here. Like no one else, like my mom tried helping me put me in programs. went to juvenile hall, that didn't scare me But ye I wish I had my father in my life, you know, but the drugs you got to him and I blamed it on him until I found out how addiction was and it's hard to get out of addiction, you know? What is your addiction? My addiction was Drinking alcohol, liquor and smoking marijuana. Okay How long you been doing that M whenever startteen. Sorry Yeahah whenever startam. Okay Yeah And what w do you feel you've changed U the way I think, I mean, I don't talk to any friends out there anymore 'Cacause the only reason why I was doing it out there is my surroundings, the people I was around. that encouraged me to do it. I don't have those people anymore. But you know them people don come right back around when you get out They going't try it but I' going let it happen They' them come around, they're gonna try to smoke with you 'cause that's what people do when they get out of prison. Yeah. They gonna try to drink with you. Theyre gonna try to do all that. I can't really talk to those people anymore, you know, 'cause you knowre we're on two different sides, you know, so What can you take away from being in prison at twenty years old Wow One One thing that got to me was the distance between me and my family. We're so close. I have a twin brother and you know, he's doing good out there, but I have a little brother out there that I felt in life, you know? I was a older brother. I was supposed to teach him the way bya in the negative way. So whenever I get out there, you know, I'm gonna to help him out, keep him busy. tell about how this life at for him because you know, at the end of day, you know, if you keep on doing negative things, you're gonna end upe here for the rest of your life. Like I see people like sevenenty years old over here, like they're all we've been doing this our whole life. You know, I'm not trying to be like you sure right now Um Honestly You see your arms are folded, so I figured The body language is It's a little shut off. Are you uncomfortable with my questions? No, I'm not uncomfortable with the questions, just thinking a lot, you know, thinking about everything. What does the future look like for Mr. Logan Hm. So whenever I get out, I'm gonna go to my brother's house. I got a couple opportunities, you know, my I can get into firefighting. For Mounto, he' trying to give in the welding over there. So Ive got a lot of opportunities. I just Gotta take them, you know Yeah, I know I'm gonna do good whenever I get out and stay away from a crowd just be a family man, you know Do you have any of those things written down? I don't, but I mean, the goals I got is like I want to end up creating my own business, kindind of like build stuff for like playhouses for kids, you know, or like dooghouses, a contractor? Yeah. Okay. And also a detailing business I got a lot of goals, you know? Absolutely. And I will accomplish him. I don't got a negative mindset, I have a positive mindset and I know I'll do it. Okay, I'd like to sit down with you in the future and get those goals written down. How do you feel about that? I'm okay with that I really appreciate you sitting with me today Yeah, I appreciate it too. Having someone to talk to is nice, you know Iming Absolutely Listening to Tyrone here, I felt like we were seeing a different side of him. I mean, I can't say that we were hearing him open up, but you could hear him trying to get other people to open up You know, which was interesting. You could hear his voice change. He asked these really short open ended questions. Yeah, and I wonder if that's something that theyve learned in training. Yeah U Logan needed just somebody to talk to. Right So what's your name? I'm Anthony. Anthony. Thank you for sitting with me today. Prou. So finally the last guy came in, Anthony. Oh, Anthony What were you doing before I pulled you off the yard? Honestly, I was just walking in circles. I was gonna start working out, but I know where to work out with, so you know, it's basically walking in circles. Walking in circles. Why are you walking in circles? Ain't nothing else to do huh? A' nothing else to do but walk Doave you suffer from any mental health disorders, addiction? Is there anything that I talk about addictions. I do drugs in the streets Yeah, I got an addiction big big time. Adiction. What do you what do you suffer from? adddiction? I'm st on crystal myh right now. not even here, you know, I'm actually subarin up, but when I get to the streets I mess up, you know So This is a very Weird question to ask you, but Are you able to use drugs here in the yard? No. I'm not asking you to snitch, but. I mean, it's possible, yeah How do you keep yourself distracted I gotta work out Yeah I find it working out's like a new new h for me, you know? I actually like it better, but I know for sure once I get to the street ain't I know where to go, that's where I'm hop to rightise to that How old are you? I'm twenty nine. twenty nine. Yeah. And so how long have you lived on the streets? Since I was like seventeen? Wow. Yeah. And how do you survive? How do you get by? Beause that's a very hostile environment It's not easy, It's really hard out there because it's hard to sleep really. Okay. That's why the drugs come in play B I get food stamps and so I try to survive off day U Do people like steal from you all the time? All the time, they steal everything from you Cothes, food Lly. you feel like Being homeless has influenced some of your decision making? Yeah. How so? Because I ain't got nowhere to go I gott to do everything that I don't want to, just to survive, basically. get me? Yeah What does that look like likeike it's bad. I don't know how to describeed it look, but it's bad. It's right. reallyally bad I would even want to show you what it look like. You I would try to keep my best to keep you away from me Do you have any goals for the future? Yeah, I want to get to What was it called Trade schoolool for a CDO? I really want to do that ' I'm homeless right? I to stay in a truck the whole time and I could just stack my money. Do you have a plan B if that doesn't work out? forlift. I'm gonna get a forthlift driving. It's slow easy. What if that doesn't go right? What's your plan for that I don't know. I haven't thought that far. Okay. Well, I'll be interested to sit with you to see what we can come up with to ensure that get you land on your feet, you know. That'll be really helpful. Yeah yeah. it will. Well, that time I need to start dingking about that I appreciate you sitting with me today. Thank you. Do you have any questions or any advice you wanna give or something you w to say? Nah, not really. All I can say is thank you for all your help. Thank you. Appreciate you're gonna have this sit together in the near future so we can get some your things in order. Okay, we can do that. All? I'm gonna need that I' so curious, we talked to three very different people I think It served purpose that I grabb those three people because it shows the type of population I deal with and how different they are on the yard. so There are people who, you know, who will come e he her to talk and then there are some who may have struggle or struggle while they're talking and discussing some of their hardships. Do you think that your personality or anything changes depending on I try I try to adjust with him But I also try to be an anchor and make sure that I'm stable and secure with who I am As said You're gonna get me on now, but try to stay secure with who I am Stable and make sure that they can lean on me What I noticed about you was that you didn't change. You felt very stable with each person and treated them all very equally. That's what I noticed. I tried my best Yeah Did you notice that one of them had no fingernails I didn't notice that. probably is a sign of Anxiety being young in this environment Of those three guys, I think the one that really need the most help right now Is is Anthony? Definitely When you're doing pure support on individuals like that, are you encouraging him like Aen You know, go go to drug counseling because you definitely need it becausecause he seemed like he's just on the edge like If he walked by crystal, he' gonna hit it