The Culture of Silence

Hey, I'm Kelly McCvers and this is embedded from NPR Today, we're starting a new series. a partnership with the Seattle Times and KUOW And it takes place in the summer of twenty twenty. Remember, that's when protests were happening all over the country after the killing of George Floyd In Seattle, something happened that didn't really happen anywhere else in the U.S. A standoff with protesters went on for days, and then the police actually abandoned a precinct in the middle of the city in the Capitol Hill neighborhood They just left. And once they were gone, protesters set up an occupy style camp around it. The camp was called Chop The Capitol Hill occupied protest Some people call it the Capitol Hill orrganized protest It was an experiment in a different kind of world with its own medical teams and its own armed security People there believed they were building a better version of society onene that rejected police violence But three weeks in That experiment end it There was a shooting at the camp And the gunfire came from the people who were actually trying to defend the camp. A black teenager died Six years later, the case remains unsolved. Over the next eight episodes, reporters Will James and Syidney Brownstone are going to take us inside Chop. to find out what happened the night of the shooting and how violence came to occupy this anti violence occupation One more thing before we start, this episode includes explicit language and the sound of gun violence. Here's Syidney and Will I remember the shooting happened on a Monday morning few blocks from where I used to live in a neighborhood called Capitol Hill An editor called and asked if I could go down and report from the scene So I get dressed and I run out of my apartment Everything looks normal at first. People are walking their dogs, their grabbing their fancy coffee drinks I'm walking by rainbow crosswalks and a leather daddy bar This is Seattle But then I cross over onto twwelfth Avenue And it's like stepping into a different universe. I end up walking into chop Chop was an occupy style protest that included a field of tents There were crowds, art installations, and makeshift barricades All of it took up about eight square blocks of my neighborhood It had been there for three weeks. This morning, the morning of june twenty ninth, twenty twenty This isn't just a protest It's a crime scene. Crowds of protesters are screaming in the middle of the street F One of them seems particularly frazzled and is carrying around a baseball bat.. There are members of the Black clergy there praying over a blood smeared car. enough is enough,ough killing is enough. We have to stop this. A Here's what I learn. Two black teens had been shot hours earlier. One of them was dead His name was Antonio Mays Junior My goal was to try to find witnesses who could tell me what had happened. They started down by the park Ebody started running and were ducking down and whatnot. People staying at Chop tell me that they saw a white Jeep driving around erratically. Antonio Mays Juni. was in that Jeep. C was driving around go crazy like he was going to hit someone and Witnesses say they heard shots coming from the Jeep And then people inside chop shot back There was like at least like like thirty shots that went off. Protesters thought that whoever was in that white Jeep was firing at them, that chop was under attack. We are out here as peaceful protesestters, but we do have to defend ourselves when there are threats against our lives. I mean, when you come in shooting I don't think it's that much of a surprise when you get shot back I felt really unnerved by the certainty among the people I talked to that protesters had acted in self defense Things just seemed so chaotic on the ground that I didn't know how anyone could be certain of anything And the story of what happened seemed to be hardening before my eyes I was covering the protests in twenty twenty as well And like Sydney, I was waiting for answers about this shooting. Black teenager attack chop protesters going to step forward and reckon with what happened that night police were they going to arrest anyone But instead, years passed and this case faded from public consciousness. As reporters, we turned our attention to other stories The protester' version of events went pretty much unchallenged Will and I couldn't shake this feeling that there was more to what happened One of the complaints that was filed this week is by a father who lost his son Antonio Mays Jior in twenty twenty three. Antonio's dad, Antonio Mayays sror filed a lawsuit that told a different story He said his son wasn't attacking Chop The lies that those people up there told about my son. angered me so much. He said Antonio Jr. had actually come to Seattle to join the protest to be part of the civil rights movement of his generation You know, he went to take a stand And I, you know, I had to be proud of him for having the courage for that And he said, whoever shot Antonio didn't act in self defense killed him in cold blood I'm not illegal al I think it's common knowledge that it's not legal to allow vigilantes to police their own zone Some of the questions we'd been asking ourselves from the beginning came rushing back. Who was Antonio Mayays Junior And if he did come to Seattle to protest, how did he end up as someone protesters felt they needed to defend themselves against was whoever shot Antonio really protecting the protest. And why do we still not know who they are or their motives all these years later? We investigated these questions for more than a year interviewing close to a hundred people and reviewing evidence that's never been public before The more we looked into this case The more we ran into this circle of silence prrotesters themselves to the police and officials who are leading the city We started to see what happens when the people in charge and the people demanding change seem to decide that protecting themselves is more important than their responsibility to anyone else. I'm Will James, a reporter at KOW, a public radio station in Seattle I'm Sidney Brownstone. I'm a reporter at the Seattle Times. from NPRs embedded This is we keep us safe By the time we started investigating this case, a narrative about Antonio had been out there for years Protesters at ChopP said he was in the White Jeep attacking them, maybe even shooting when he was killed We knew Antonio was sixteen years old and from southern California And not much else, because Antonio's dad wasn't talking to reporters back when the shooting happened But after Antonio Sr filed a lawsuit, We thought there was a chance he'd open up that he could tell us more about Antonio. Hello, Mr. Mays Hello He talked to us from his home in Southern California while he was also taking care of his kids. Do you have questions for us before we start asking you questions? You were there that like right after it happened Yes So you guys got to see the aftermath. Yeah, I saw the car and I spoke to people on the ground Antonio Sr. painted this picture of a father and son taking in and processing all of the protests breaking out across the country that summer. Jeorge Floyd thing happen. he sees a current example of police brutality Bigger than Rodney King. I mean this is a real life Black movement against police brutality that was going down in his lifestyle Antonio Sr. would record protests happening in LA where he worked. and share those videos with his son My son asked me, He said, Dad, if you didn't have us, would you be joining those riots And u You know, for fear of him being excited to go join You know, this is the one time I felt like, damn Did I did I give him too much information? You know, did I Did I encourage him in a way that I don't want him to be encouraged right now because I didn't want him to go join that bight About a month after George Floyd's murder, Antonio Sr learned his son had gone to join that fight Antonio Junior left his home for Seattle on june twenty third, twenty twenty without telling his dad, Antonio Sr. filed a missing persons report as soon as he discovered his son had left I and no idea that he would Traveled at four. He was shot and killed at the Seattle prrotest less than a week later Antonio Sr doesn't know what Antonio was doing during his days at Chop But he doesn't believe the protester's narrative Because it just sounds nothing like the son he raised. These books are stacked too back to back One, two, three, four As Antonio Senr and I are speaking over Zoom He walks over to a bookshelf. He's go all the way He go all the way down and he starts pulling out. these worn paperback fantasy novels. His son used to read Allright salvator And Raymond Feist used to love the legend of Dzz I was like, Oh my God, Antono was a nerd in a way that is super relatable, I should be clear, like I was also a fantasy nerd Wow. So definitely dozens in there. He was reading dozens of these books. He read all these and some of multiple times over. When we would go to work, he would have any one of these in his pocket at any time wherever he was at Antonio Sr runs a barbecue business. My family' been barbecuing. before I was born. And he was training his son to take over. He'd be at home practicing, slicing his aunt, Julianne style. Antonio Jr. and his dad would go to farmers' markets and sell their Hcrafted barbecue sauce. My son came to life at those markets. Like they would hang out, have fun talking to customers, have fun talking to the other vendors. There was one night where my son made one hundred twenty pounds of asparagus And he just had this cast iron skillet putut it all together And he just made it over and over again, over and over again. and that' flying out the window. I'm like, my God, look at him go Antonio Sr. told his son all about black history I tau my son what it is to be bllack and American. He raised him with a deep understanding of the struggle for black liberation Martin Luther King, Malcolm X. The W Rise, the Harlem Rise, the Black Panther Party He taught him about the dangers young black men can face from police And what to do if they confront you I have been harassed by police on multiple occasions teach my son to be careful for that when he's harassed by police because I assume he'll be harassed by police that he knows how to behave, knows how to speak, he knows how to move Antonio Sr has mixed feelings about this now. to be to be honest If meant that I had my son back, I wouldn't teach my son backest because I want to have him back right now. I man the hell with black history I know it might be difficult to talk about, but how did you find out about your son's death and what wereere your communications like with the city after it happened Sheriff came to my house. loocked in my door Tld me the bad news I talk to the detective, the chief of police at that time Call me Once or twice I said I need Somemerreff made. And he's justice for myon We're working on that You got some leads on follow up on You know, this could take a while. But we're working on it When's the last time you've had any contact with the Seattle police regarding your son's death, Do you remember what year? twenty twenty Their phones just went fil and I couldn't get a hold of the detective. someone said that the case got reassigned and someone else told me that case was closed And he said eventually people just stopped picking up. still don't have any answers I couldn't get a hold of anybody This takes us by surprise Seattle pololice have told us their investigation into Antonio's death is still open and active We expected they'd been updating Antonio Sr over the years But he really doesn't know more than us. It made us wonder Are Seattle police still investigating or have they effectively given up on it? I should know exactly what happened. I should have some answers. I should have some closure. Oh, this is what happened, Mr. Mays. I should be getting a report This is what these people did. This is what happened to your son. This is who is responsible for it. This is the action that we took After our interview, we reached out to the Seattle Police Department. We wanted to know when they last communicated with Antonio Sr But they declined to comment because of the quote murder investigation. Antonio Sr. sued the city of Seattle in twenty twenty three He says the killing of his son was not self defense that it was a violent crime. and the city let it happen. Clearly, there's no consequence Because that's why I'm here on an interview with you Our goal is to speak to as many people who were there witnessing what happened, and our hope is that some of them might be willing to tell us what actually happened This is open in your face You know, how are there no answers And there's a reason Antonio Sr is so baffled that this case is still unsolved It's because so many of the minutes before and after Antonio's death were live streamed And many of these videos have been public for years The events leading up to ChOop and ChOop itself unfolded in about a month But it felt like years worth of history were compressed in that time It started a few days after George Floyd was murdered when thousands of protesters showed up in Seattle streets to confront police brutality. Police unleashed crowd control weapons standandoff formed outside a police precinct And that escalated for a week until police decided to retreat abandoned the precinct Chop grew up in the roughly eight square blocks around that vacant precinct Police were hands off. They decided they'd only go into chob for life threatening emergencies And through it all, people chronicled almost every detail on live streamed videos, with thousands of viewers following along in real time We're out here live in Seattle And we're going to keep seeing what we run into. There were so many live streamers at ChOop that sometimes it felt like you couldn't walk ten feet without seeing someone documenting it on a phone. What's up ladies and gentlemen? Hey, y'all, I'm back. It's the resistance,'. It's been a minute. I'm out here You had live streams from citizen journalists, from independent journalists. Hey you mind giving up a couple words on how you feel about this autonomous zone going on out here? You had YouTubers. I'm gonna try my best to keep the camera away from people who don't want to be filed. all broadcasting their version of choc. Thanks for following me, bro. Thank you very much for tuning in this evening. Stay tuned guys. It made us wonder What could we learn from these live streams about what really happened the night Antonio was killed? If you see any shells on the ground? pick those up, pocket them. them home That's coming up after the break When we started investigating Antonio's death in twenty twenty five, We knew we had to revisit old live streams recorded that night So we enlisted the help of our friend and colleague, David Gutman of the Seattle Times, who'd been on this story from the beginning These videos have been online since the night of the shooting There are three videos in particular that we've watched over and over again They give us kind of a rough sketch of what happened that night And the more we've watched them, the more we keep noticing new stuff, new details, new potential clues Who is this card So this video starts a little before three A. It's shot by this live streamer who's standing in this big park that's right at the middle of a chop. They're in the midst of all these tents and this person is panicked. More shots fired, moreore shots fired More shotsfied, more shatsfied person recording sees a car driving through the park on a turf field that's normally used for soccer, baseball, Fisbee. The live streamer says they hear gunshots coming from the car. part has been circling around shhooting more f shooting more shots into Tense. We can see the car the live streamer is talking about. It's a quick glimpse on the video This white Jeep is what's got everyone all freaked out It's that white car that's been circling around We now know Antonio and another teen are inside this white jeep. I am ready to die for the cause. that doesn't mean I want to be in the way of a fucking drive by shooter This live streamer sends out a message basically saying that this white Jeep is attacking Chop But we can't see enough in the video to tell. The next live stream starts minutes later This one is shopot from an apartment right above chop You see people running in the streets below. you hear shouting It sounds like a war zone. We can hear what happens next, the fatal shooting of Antonio But we can't see it There's a tree blocking our view And then the boys inside the white Jeep crash into these cement barricades that the city put up around Chop You hear more gunshots. shhots directed at the White Jeep You hear the engine rev. it kind of backs up a little like it's trying to get out of there. And then it crashes into the barricads again. It's a lot of gunshots this time And you know, it's dark out, but Underneath the halo of a street lamp, you see a shadow outside the passenger door of the white Jeep And then you hear this just kind of surreal line Oh, you're not dead Wan to get pistol whipped Yeah that's what you hear All you can make out from the speaker who says this is their shadow But they seem to be yelling at the boys in the Jeep Bys who at this point have been shot multiple times Who yells this? And is this the person who shot Antonio ifify'if. So there's this third video. It's shot by a woman named Ashley Darellis. She runs up to the crashed Jeep just moments after we hear the last gunshot. All, the way.o on the way It's chaos. People are all over the place. There's people trying to treat the two boys who've been shot. One of these boys is Antonio Mays Jir. and the other one is a fourteen year old named Robert West. Somebody shot Somebody is shed be taken to the hospital. Go go, go, go, go Protestters put these kids in two different cars to try and bring them to medical care And once they leave The scene of the shooting is pretty quiet. That's not your blood, Ray. is We see the crashed white Jeep. It windows are broken and it is riddled with bullet holes. There is medical debris on the ground from when volunteer medics tried to treat the boys. After pulling them out of the car, there's gauze and blood and broken glass and There are about a dozen people milling around the scene in the dark Ashley Dllis films a guy walking around and you never see this guy's face. You get a quick glimpse of him from the chest down It kind of looks like he's wearing work boots, khaki, cargo type pants an unzipped leather jacket He's carrying a plastic bag. Right as he appears on camera, we hear this voice saying Uness you see any shells on the ground, pick those up, pocket them, p them home. Tking about hiding evidence, you know, stealing or destroying evidence. Hell, yeah, no evidence. Ashley is To put it generously, she's encouraging Could flash it up. You to got myself I don'tan to get the fuck out of here. Well, thank you. Yeah, hey, I'm sorry I gota take off. but I know Chicag. I don't you need it to be here. Yeah, y'all don't than. I know. I don't care to know. all I know is thank you. That's it What is she thanking him for in her mind? In her mind, I don't want to say in my mind, she is thanking him for shooting the two boys who, I think, in her mind were a threat to protesters there. For security reasons, I'm gonna cut this live off. I'm not gonna let y'all see who talks a cop or who doesn't talk a cop Be safe, y'all You watch Ashley Dorelles' video And you're like, well, this will be solved real soon Here's what we see across these three live streams First, a protester announces that a white Jeep driving on the playfield is attacking Chob Minutes later, we hear one or more people shooting up that jeep as it crashes into a barricade. And then we glimpse someone walking around in the aftermath, saying he needs to pick up his shells So we've got some blanks to fill in here and That means finding people who were there who will talk to us. And, you know, if we're looking for who was at the scene, the only people I kind of know for sure were at the scene were the people who shot the videos they see anything that we can't see on the videos? did they talk to anyone? Do they know who's saying? Do you want to get pistol whipped? Who is saying, Hey, pick up my shells And so Ashley Dllis was one of the first people we reached out to aesthetics therellis She was literally at work. She worked at like a restaurant. caafe restaurant. I definitely can't wait to invite you guys around when you come down here Not only is she at work, but she's like the only one at work as it's opening. Ohking one. So she's talking to us on like videoide Zoom as she's also like manan in the drive through. I'm up Gordan real quick. It' a chicken a walk for W Centers you do it? Aage' is on a ph of Who was Ashle Dorlles before she ended up documenting the aftermath of this shooting? I guess I would call her a protester slash filmmaker. She is filing from all these protestsose California, Oakland, L.A, San Francisco wr because I've been going live streaming like every single day. Came to Seattle because of the protest. She said she wanted to document it. That was how I ended up immersing myself in the Seattle Cunity We really want to ask Ashley if she has any more information The man on her video saying Pick up my shells A much like many of the live streamers who are there most of the time purpose is like pointing her camera down. She She's shooting people with a camera from like shoulders down. There is often a concerted effort not to film people's faces. And what happened when you asked Ashley to describe who this guy was? She said it was a big fat white guy. He was a big white man. Do you think he is one of the shooters Do you know who he is? I mean, beyond just like a guy in a video Say that again, sorry interview with him, I just lived Even though Ashley wasn't there for the shooting She walked away believing the man she saw picking up shells fired at the white cheet. So Ashy shoots this video, parts of which certainly appear self incriminating About a week later, the video gets actually arrested Her arrest is filmed and it kind of goes viral online. She's just on a street corner And all of a sudden cops swarm her She's taken off in a police van Technically it's for rendering criminal assistance basasically for helping cover up a possible crime. You got arrested a few days later and you As I understand it, we're never charged with anything What out What was that like They were trying to as like I was helping him. And when Ibody know, I'm recording him doing it because if anybody' get in trouble it's gonna be him not me She says, no, I wasn't encouraging him, right? I'm not helping him with anything that he did time you might be thankful because those kids were shooting at you but wards when you find out the truth, you're like, huck,ad you, I don wantan to be like Were the police like, hey, you know who did it? or what were they saying No the police wanted me to give up the names of the people who were at the crime scene They they didn't even give it damb about shooter one fashion about the shooter, but they were more interested about the protesterors. of bs but number one rle f. Don't talk about Fight Club What's the second rooll of Fight club I' tell you We don't know. What she's saying is We don't talk about that stuff. You know, people who were there who witnessed this shooting, this killing. are not going to talk about it. And that is something certainly we've run into over a year of reporting is I feel quite confident there are people out there who know who did this shooting But there are people who don't want to talk about it and won't talk about it It was someone walking around chop with a gun, right Obviously. So what's that there? literally Dirty Hear you guys We'd heard about shop security before We'd seen people walking around the zone Body armor. Sometimes with guns understand who they were And what their role was the night Antonio was killed. We've got to go back to the beginning How did chop start Why did some protesters there decide to arm themselves? And how did something so helpful A protest for black lives end up turning into this circle of silence. surrounding the killing of a black teenager T Black Lives matter to the SVD. We didn't kick them out. They abandoned this space. Tsection. We always bristle at the fact that we gave up a precinct. It's way more nuanced than that. What were we so afraid of That's on the next episode of We Keep U Safe If you'd like to take a look at evidence from this episode, like live streams from the Night of the shooting, go to npr dot org slash chop. We're going to be adding new evidence there each week We Keep U Sfe from NPRs embedded is a collaboration with the Seattle Times and KQOW. This series is reported and written by me, Sydney Brownstone, and my partner, Will James. Full disclosure, we happen to be married. David Gutman is also a reporter on the series. This episode was edited by Louise Treus and Laura Granias with support from Katie Simon. It was produced by our senior producer, Adelina Lancianise Additional production support from Dan Germma. Research and factact checking by Dana Soliman and Mioko Wolf. Robert Rodriguez mastered the episode Music by Audio socket, Blue dot sessions, Rom Tin Arabui, and Universal Music productduction. Our managing editor of Standards and Practices is Tony Kavin The deputy editor for editorial review is Nuia Lancey Johannna Durgie and Mikeah Ratner provided legal support Special thanks to Matt Cannam. Genean Demby, Gigi Dubon, Phyllis Fletcher, and Ravenna Kanck for your invaluable feedback as well as atttorney Kathy George. Thanks to Omari Salisbury and Converge Media for video recordings Crucial insights about the timeline of events surrounding the Seattle protests of twenty twenty The showrunner and senior supervising editor of emmbedded is Katie Simon Lanna Simstrom is senior supervising producer Irene Naguchi is executive producer Yolanda Sangwueni is NPR's vice president for content and Tommy Evans is NPR's editor in chief. For KUOW, Brendon Sweeney is director of New content. Our Chief content officer is Marshall Isisen. For the Seattle Times, Laura Grerenius leads our investigations team. Michelle Matasa Flores is our executive editor and a big thanks to our NPR plus supporters Embedded is where we do ambitious long form journalism at NPR, and NPR plus helps keep that work going Supporters also get to listen to every embedded episode early. Find out more at plusotnprot org If you'd like to email the show, you can reach out at embedded at npR dot orgot I'm Will James. This is emmbedded from NBR. Thanks for listening