Future Vision for BlaBlaCar

You are now listening to the EU Startups Podcast . Hello, and welcome to this episode of the EU Startups Podcast. As always, I'm your host, David Sena Garcia, the news editor here at EU Startups. Have you ever traveled in Europe? I'm sure this answer is a yes to all of you, but have you ever need to travel on a really small budget? That's where Blad vacar comes in. Uh I'm sure as many of you know, Blad akar has this wonderful offering for a cheap ride sharing across Europe and globally. Uh it was founded in 2006 by Frederick Matzella. He and I sat down and chatted over the impact the blog ar has had on the uh ride-sharing ecosystem, not just in Europe, but globally. We chatted about where he sees the impact of this moving forward, how he sees the US evolving with its uh access to ride share, and even his work on promoting startups and innovation within Europe You're a startup founder. 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That's V-A-N-T-A.com slash EU startups. Hello, Frederick, and welcome to the U Startups Podcast. It's a pleasure to have you here and thank you for letting me call you Fred, which is definitely easy Yes, yes. I'm very excited for this conversation. I myself am an average uh blah blah car user. I definitely was in college when I had about five euros to my name and uh I needed to get around. So I'm I'm I'm a I'm a fan of the service and uh I'm particularly excited to have this chat with you. And you of course are no stranger to uh us at EU startups. I know you've had involvement with our summit in the past. So uh we're we're we're always keeping an eye on Blah blah car. So it's pleasure to have you. And before we get started on the uh questions, I think it's always easy Okay. So uh my name is Fred, as you said. Uh I'm an entrepreneur. I build companies, which I hope are useful for us, for us all. So you've named the blah blah car, of course, which is a big success I've built a few years ago. I'm also building another project today, which is called the DIFT for a donation as a gift where we uh we send the money to uh NGOs, organiz ations uh with um with the help of uh companies. And um as for blah blah car I guess we'll be uh focusing uh quite a lot on on questions you have on this uh wonderful project. So um I'll be brief for now and waiting for your questions. Great. Yes. Well I I didn't stift and you uh uh please do talk about it. You know, uh the the idea here is to kind of get an insight into the entrepreneur and his journey and his challenges. So you know it always feel free, even though I as you're as you've said my questions are mostly aimed at Bla Lakar, but if you can find any point to talk about that, more than welcome you. So uh with that in mind, I think the best place to start these conversations is always at the beginning. Uh and uh I've read over and over again this story of yours of how blah blah car began, about this uh trip with your sister. So you know, and and feel free to tell us a story again because I I I do think it's kind of an interesting one and kind of highlights really what where the idea comes from. But I I'm kind of curious about when you began Blab acar. What kind of I mean, what was the initial focus of it? It was it about making travel easier? Was it uh about uh not wasting enough resources, uh saving money, even sustainability questions are are are obviously in the mix here? What was the what was the goal to begin with? Well, I think the the first thing was uh a personal need. I mean I just wanted to get home for Christmas and I hit the wall of uh everything is full, like all the trains were full, I could not get any any available seats and um and then when I finally took a car with my little sister who had a car, and then she brought me uh home uh on the highway, uh I saw a train um going faster than us, and then um I said to my little sister, well, this train is full, there is no seat available in it. I know it because I've been looking for it for seats. And then at the same time I saw all the empty cars, like dozens, uh hundreds, thousands of uh empty cars with uh sometimes only the driver on board. And so I thought okay, there were uh a lot of um possibilities and available seats to go uh to my home place, but uh they were not in the trains anymore. They were in the cars. And so we need to make sure that we are able to search for available seats in cars. And so what's what was the real starting point, I think, is to see the o pportunity, to see the the absurdity of waste. Like uh it was not a grand theory at first. I think it's more like uh physics uh obviousness. It's unused capacity everywhere, um and uh energy being lost. So I think that's uh the main thing I saw uh the opportunity of matching people going the same way, uh sharing costs, uh just because the seats were available and it's so then physical . Um but then after of course it translates into something you can scale because it does not happen only in France, but it happens like everywhere. Um and so yeah it's it's part of the the uh the uh entrepreneurial uh journey. Hmm. But there has to be a social I mean at least afterwards a social angle developed in it too. Because i if I can think of one of my most like uh important uh experiences with Blah Blackar, it's a trip I took from Salmanca to Valencia in Spain, which if you know anything about where those two cities are located, it's on opposite ends of the country. Uh and and I magically found a person who was making that exact same trajectory. Uh and you know, I I sat down w it was about eight hours of a car ride. And uh I realized that he hadn't done it for the gas money. He'd he'd done it just so he'd have somebody to talk to for eight hours because he thought I'm gonna be so bored sitting in a vehicle for eight hours. I might as well meet somebody. Yeah, it's a big motivation for everyone uh as a driver to uh actually uh take passengers in their car, just to not be alone and uh spend a good time, discover new people. Uh obviously it's very, very social. I it's um so you mentioned it. I think blah blah co has uh you we can discover it because you think it's uh uh a more affordable way to travel. Uh it's uh it's cheaper than uh most if not the all the other options. But um what strikes is uh that you actually get to meet new people. That's why it's called black car. I don't know if we're called bla blackout No, no I don't know. You know uh it's because when you register on the service, you choose how much you talk in the car. You choose if you are blah blah blah or blah blah blah. It's like how much to be uh chatting during the car, during the the ride. So um uh well I I'm I'm registered as blah blah on the service, but uh I've been told I should register as blah blah blah. Anyway. Um because I just how many how many trips have you taken yourself on blah blah car? I knew uh hundreds. But um yeah, it's it's uh a lot as and uh especially in the beginning to like really proof test uh the service, proof test the concept, uh improve the features that we were we we we needed. Um but then as you mentioned, there are two sides. After you realize okay, it's a cheap option to travel, uh, it saves a lot of money for drivers, it's uh cheaper for passengers, then you enter into this um uh this wonderful uh add-ons uh of the service is that you meet people, so that's a social angle, you discover people and it's also a lot more uh environmentally friendly because of course you divide the um CO2 emissions per the number of passengers uh in the car. So um we've made the calculations that blah blah car alone saves more than two point five million tons of CO two a year. Um when we compare a world without bla bla car and a world with blabla car, so it's really um significant. Two point five million tons of CO two per year is uh twice the amount of the CO2 emissions of a big city like uh Paris for the road traffic. So every year we offset two times uh what uh city like uh the city of Paris uh creates in terms of CO two emissions uh on road traffic. So it's quite significant and um it's uh thanks to the the big network we have today. It's a hundred million people who uh use blah blah car uh on the planet today, from Brazil to India, um which are our two um two biggest uh countries. So there are three advantages in in this uh whole thing. Uh not only it's a cheaper option but it's also social and social environmental, so it has all the benefits you could ever think of, which which has I think made uh um a big part of the success because uh there is no reason to not use it. I I I've I've also come across this these uh these data to your point too and and and of course are very interesting. And uh then there's also a topic that you've spread beyond just carpooling. That' re in there's buses, there's train offerings now. And I I have to wonder, is that uh is is the environmental impact also being transferred when you were involving uh buses and train offerings, or is that something that only really stays within carpooling because of its shared nature? I mean um for the uh other means of common transportation, so like buses or trains. Um it's already embedded in the model that it's um uh it's uh better for uh the environment and for um uh for the uh energy uh savings to actually have a lot of people traveling together in the same vehicle. That's the main thing, the main topic that uh common transport has uh solved and the the main uh raison d'être if you wish for uh this to um have developed because um it's uh it's a way for people to share the cost of the energy which is needed to move people around and so by saving the cost on energy, you also save on the environmental impacts. But the goal then is to make sure that your uh feed up rate is uh correct, is good because if you have big vehicles travelling empty, then that's a total waste and we can see that we can project that that it's not what what should be done. So our goal when we enter into um any kind of ground transport like this, whether it's buses or trains, is to make sure we improve uh the fill up rate of all those vehicles and make sure that they never travel uh empty or with uh empty seats. We we do our best to bring uh as many people in in this uh shared capacity that is uh made available to the network of uh the people who travel with us. So it's the same logic that we apply to these uh thermal transport solutions as we apply in couple. And is there any uh because so we you've you've covered carpooling, buses, trains, the obvious last mode of transport is uh airplanes. Is there any kind of uh is that a different uh ballpark altogether or is there any kind of plan moving forward to kind of address that? No, I think it's uh it's really a different play. Uh so never say never, but for now it's not something we uh focus on. For now what we think is like if you want to fly then you you know how where to fly in where to find your uh uh your flights and then uh there are a lot of flight comparators uh around there, a lot of OTAs in that space who uh do uh the the the real job that is needed for this activity. Uh but then if you think about ground transport, you should think about blah blah car and then blah blah car you'll find carpool, buses and trains, so anything that can uh bring you on the ground is um is uh discoverable and blah blah car. But uh we don't enter in the uh flight space for now. Uh uh carpooling it feels so natural in Europe. Uh and uh hitchhiking even feels so natural here. And me having been uh raised in the spa states and spent a lot of time there, you know, uh hitchhiking is less and less common and ride sharing carpooling is even less so, it feels. Do you think that right sharing has a true global appeal? Or does it just kind of work in some settings? If we're talking about the US, it's like everybody has a car, everyone's forced to have a car , uh depending on just uh where you live and how cities are structured. So do you feel like there's a true global uh application for what Blogla car offers? Yeah, well I think it's um it's a glob ally appealing concept because uh empty seeds are available, it's universal, it's available everywhere. But the adoption curve is really local. It's like a a seed if you wish that grows on the uh if the soil, which means like the habits, the trust of the alternative is right. And the real uh driver isn't really uh car ownership, it's more pain. Uh by pain I mean um high prices, long distances, uh limited public transport, congestion, parking cancel . And when pain is strong, then people try new behaviors faster. Then you have the culture which matters a lot through trust and social norms. I mean in some places uh sharing with strangers is uh natural, in others you need uh stronger reactions like profiles, ratings, verifications before uh it feels safe. Um so it's uh it's a combination of all this and uh and the economics of course uh matter too because um where uh buses and trains are cheap uh and great then ridesharing uh must win on flexibility in the commun ity for the community. So where uh alternatives are poor or expensive, uh rind sharing wins on price and availability. So you have a different angles to to look at it. So well to me I would say uh carpooling can work uh almost everywhere. Uh you just need roads and smartphones and then you you have uh uh and cars and then you have uh an app for carpooling with uh with blah blah car um but it's not exactly the same recipe everywhere you need to localize the trust system and the value proposition and so you were talking about the US um one of the reasons we think today that US is not uh adopting carpooling. There's no like solution for carpooling in the US. And we are not in the US at all, and then there's no actor which does what we do. It's also because the price of gas and the convenience of moving around uh is not um uh well the price of gas and the price of everything around cars is a lot cheaper uh than it is in most uh countries where we operate, especially when compared to uh the um uh the GDP per inhabited. So uh the pain that the drivers feel when they go at the pump or when they they have to travel with their car is a lot lower, which is not um uh an incentive for drivers to propose their seats for sharing. So we believe that's uh um a real driver um when uh when it comes to having uh drivers uh proposing their seats to passengers that uh if they don't pay much, if they don't feel the pain of paying a lot when they move around with their cars, that I don't feel the need for sharing the cost as well. Hmm. I imagine though that may be changing and I'm not getting political here, but with obvious uh current uh economic and uh political happenings, uh the the price of gas is shooting up. And I imagine that more and more people are considering in the even in the US uh to kind of uh see these kind of things uh adopted. Is there is there any plans to go to the US? Or do you just plans to go to the US uh right now? Uh and you know the events you're talking about are still very recent and they they don't create like uh massive trend which would uh uh which would go which would uh spread over several years, at least for now. So uh because we're we're talking about real um equilibrium, I mean economic equilibrium here and we don't know what will happen in the coming months or years. So So um we'll see that for now it's uh it's very early to to say anything on uh whether or not uh this could like the fact that the price of gas is going up uh could trigger uh a new interest for carpooling in the US and uh Okay. Well a and speaking about the US and Europe, there is something I wanted to touch on and just going backwards here if you don't mind for a second, uh is at your beginning. I I had to look over, you know, your C B and your experience and uh you know, I saw that you were a scientific researcher at NASA. I had that in my notes, which that was interesting. And and you've also spent time in Japan. So I want to hear a little bit about how those kind of early experiences helped you uh uh approach how help helped how you approach building a startup in Europe and even be an entrepreneur? Well I think um the more um trials and more experience you have the better it is. So I could uh I hope uh get the best of all the places I've been to. So whether it's in the US or Japan. I think um the US uh possibly uh spirit gave me um the the permission to try it. It felt normal to prototype fast and talk to users early and integrate without shame. Um and really create your product um in a way that you you're not uh you don't feel the the um the failure because uh you know that failure is part of the the path to success. So I think that's that really helps. And also it helps help me in thinking that uh things have to go global if you want them to have some impact. So like if it doesn't scale, it doesn't matter really. So you want to to go with scale. Then Japan, I think when I did some research there, uh it um taught me um more about uh also the rigor and the reliability and the respect for process, which is useful sometimes. And it's when you want to build something very, very uh uh powerful, stable and uh um so I think um both of those experience helped me a lot and then the French approach as well really really helped because we like to to uh look at problems uh from all angles um in France and so it really helped me in finding the right solution for how to create this kind of um product, this kind of service, which uh seemed um uh very ambitious or or crazy at the time when I launched it. So uh uh it helped me like seeing all the facets of uh how to make it work and make it acceptable for everybody. So yeah, I think I'm just a mix of all this and um I'm happy uh um we were able to develop that uh from France in Europe. Uh and actually the it was the right choice because as I we just discussed uh we we see that um this product does not exist in the US still today. So there may be some reasons so maybe it will exist um there in in the future. But for now uh Europe was uh the very best place to to start this kind of project. Hmm. Well you you know, uh B Blavakar's been the game now since two thousand is it six or eight? I've seen c I've seen conflicting uh numbers here. Is uh what when was Blavacar founded well I started coding in two thousand four I incorporated the company in two thousand six uh but then that's the reason why there was some confusion on the dat es because I started coding. Because you know, I I had done a lot of coding when I was in uh especially in the US uh in California at Stanford when I studied uh computer science. Um and so I started coding before incorporating the company and that's why there are several dates around here. But uh the the incorporation date of the company is 2006 . 2006. Okay. So you you you Babakar's been around since two thousand six. So you've seen kind of how Europe's involved in the innovation and startup sector. You've been right there at the forefront, whether it's difficulties in regulation, uh uh funding streams, all of that. And I'm I'm curious to hear about through your experiences abroad, whether it's the US or Japan, uh how you see Europe kind of uh measuring up right now in in the overall innovative worldwide uh approach ? Well, I think it's evolved a lot uh the past decades, of course, because we've gone from um some kind of uh fear of uh of going for like uh developing uh innovation especially in the tech space. Uh I would say in the beginning of uh well in the the years two thousand between two thousand ten to uh a willingness to to really try and then now we even see in the population uh with uh we we know the statistics but a lot of people want to create their own company now and I think it's a good thing because it's um it's a global spirit of people willing to uh build a future and it's always good for uh society to have uh as many people who are looking at uh at the future with ambition. Um so um this spirit has has changed a lot. Uh we have structured some uh some good businesses we have uh now um in in europe a few hundred uh unicorns and so it's it's kind of uh it's kind of uh scaling up but uh we what we're lacking is um you know the the the big uh the big funds um and and um the capital um because the capital is still coming from uh uh big places like the US, for example. So the seed exists, but the grassrounds and the let's go to let's go big globally reflexes are still more natural in the US than they are in in Europe. And they are more funds to sustain this kind of strategy uh in the in the US than you have in Europe. And uh then the other thing so where we where we still lack behind is also um the fact that uh we don't have a single market uh until now in europe. We we always say Europe is a big market, uh we have a big market, but we have uh twenty-seven uh markets. It's still not really one month . So um you know um that's uh that's holding um that's holding us a bit behind because uh what I say sometimes is uh starting in a a company in the US is like running a hundred million race. But starting a company in Europe is like running a hundred and ten meters hurdle race with uh you know uh all the hurdles uh being the twenty seven markets you have to enter which uh um which uh are like uh different in in so I mean the languages are different of course but then the payment systems the lingual frameworks and many things are yes are different. So that's holding us a bit. I think AI can help, especially with languages. And then uniforming also the payments will will help. But then the on the legal frameworks we have to work to make sure that um companies don't have to recreate a new company every time they expand. Right. Because otherwise when you expand you you feel like you're rebuilding the same startup uh ten times uh instead of just compounding. So so I so I imagine here you're referring to the uh the EU Inc. twentieth regime proposal. Uh uh and and you support it, right? Yes, of course. Of course I'm supportive. I I hope. I mean we we don't have all the details of what will be uh in the EU Inc. uh package for now. Uh I've seen some good things, but what I really, really hope is that it will be attractive for uh entrepreneurs and for companies to move to that regime. I hope it will be a regime that is attractive and not just uh something that um uh uh that puts everything in one place, which is already uh a good it's already good if it puts uh like uh all the uh administrative burden in one place instead of spreading it in many, many countries. Uh but it also has to be um uh to be attractive so that even existing companies think about moving to that region uh because it it would lower their cost uh not only the cost in money of operating in several markets in Europe, but also their cost in uh in time and in efficiency. Um so yeah, we're uh we'll be looking very carefully at uh what's inside the EU IC uh package when it's really really hard . Well, I I would hope that uh they would uh confer with success stories uh just like yourselves and uh other companies, uh other founders that we've had on the podcast. I can think of people that would know better what the challenge is and uh So I would hope that eventually you kinda get to hear about it before all of all of us and kinda be able to give some feedback . Yeah, yeah. There there are discussions on I'm in the discussions, but still uh on the details, we don't have the final details of uh everything that would be released, so I'm still waiting for for will be coming out in a few weeks or months. Okay, yeah, well w we had to use Tarp Sorv we're we're very attentive. Uh it's it's everyone's interested in the topic, everyone wants to know more. At our summit, we have a whole panel on it. So uh it's kind of what's moving people right now, and that's good. You know, it it's good that we're all so interested and we're all getting in on it. Uh I also want to talk on your work and I can see it on your laptop there, uh France uh digital, uh which uh is uh well speaking of the summit, your your media partners with us for this year's edition so we're excited about that. So I want to talk a little bit about the work that France Hotel does, especially, you know, 'cause we're talking here about European ability and everything. I know there's a heavy element of tech sovereignty that that France Digital uh is focused on. So I I kind of want to hear a little bit about your work there and how that ties into what you've done as an entrepreneur. Well uh France Digital is an association, uh it's actually the the biggest uh startup association uh in Europe, but it's an association which really is here to help the ecosystem as a whole and the startups individually to reach the uh scale up and then uh uh possibly the unicorn stage um by not only uh helping with the methods and making sure that uh um entrepreneurs uh learn faster how to scale their businesses and uh and their teams as well. So we we put their teams uh in relation, but we also help them uh by placing them in contact with uh VCs, so uh investors who can really uh help their business to grow. Um and then the other um the other thing we do a lot is um synthesizing what we know is right and good for the ecosystem as a whole to create the next jobs and also the next services for Europe. And then we summarise all this into um uh actionable things that can be uh activated by the regulator, by all these administrative um uh people who are lying either uh who are just uh in France or who are in uh Europe and uh we bring them the ideas, the good ideas from the ecosystem that they should help implement with the the level they have um with the regulation. And it's also part of so i it's been it's been seen as a lobby, but it's an education lobby. Uh it's not a a lobby for maintaining interest because you know uh as you know, many uh uh of the startups we represent uh are in the in the losing money uh phase of their growth usually because they raise money and they still lose money because they are investing on the future, they're investing on the the services of the future, then they are also on the jobs of the future. But um but what we do is we have to educate, so we're not here to protect um vested interest, we're here to protect future interests. To make sure that uh Europe counts as uh geography on the the world map for technology because uh we uh we I mean we described some of the aspects but we are lagging behind on on several uh uh issues and so if we don't um uh collect all the intelligence we can and if we don't uh uh create the good conditions for our startups and and scalups to create uh the technology of the future made in Europe, uh then it's gonna be harder and harder for Europe to compete internationally. I I if there's one thing that I've really uh loved about these conversations that I've had uh with the likes of yourself, you know, successful European entrepreneurs, is that you all seem to look backwards and to want to bring up and to kind of better the conditions, which uh I I think is so great and speaks to kind of a continental unity uh that we all share on that sense. That it's not just for French, it's not just for Spanish. It's not just where they come from, but there's a real effort to push everybody up. And I I wanna ask, I mean, uh do you think France uh digital is is making good strides in that sense in terms of its impact on the ecosystem ? Yes, yes, frankly, uh we see that because we receive also the the thank yous of the startups that we uh work with uh and they sometimes we really help uh them in making sure the regulator understands their issue. Uh sometimes. You know what when you create a new project, a startup, you often are in a space which has not been well uh scoped um and you may look like uh you're infringing some um some la ws uh when you're actually not you're just extending the uh the field uh the the play field uh you're extending where uh where the the future is is going and so uh often entrepreneurs and small startups don't have the possibility to reach out or to um communicate efficiently with the people who are creating the the Laos. And we're really here to help formalize this communication and make sure that they're heard because uh what we see is like ninety-nine percent of the time of course uh all the the the the the new projects want to uh be good and better for uh the the the next phase of humanity. So we all want to build a better world. Uh but sometimes uh it's not well interpreted because it's not well understood. And so we have to make sure that the goal of those startups is listened to and that we arrange things so that they are able to develop their new projects and new technology as well. So and also on your other point, I think all um fathers uh in Europe uh also like to see the the scale of Europe. uh uh standardized at least for the economic part. I'm not um not saying we should standardize culture because culture is really something which makes us uh a lot uh stronger and which makes us uh uh I mean the difference in cultures w should be should be uh of course uh um maintained and it's it's really a a richness that we all benefit from. But uh on all the other aspects like uh economics, uh uh business and uh practical issues we should make sure if we have a common playing field it will allow uh all our companies, uh wherever they start from, whether it's in in Poland, in Spain, in France or in in uh in Italy or wherever, uh to really uh expand globally in Europe and be a lot stronger and then it will bring new capacities for Europe, new revenues and uh Okay. Well to wrap up here and uh I'll let I'll let you go. Uh I I wanted to uh just uh a final question as to you know going back to Blah Vakar here because it's of course the big it's the crown jewel, at least at least is the way we see it in in this conversation. Uh uh looking at blah blah car uh and it's been around, you know, you start working in two thousand four, we're now in twenty twenty six, it's uh it's hit a lot of major milestones. I was curious on where you kind of see it going forward. And with that question, I just wanted to give you a little bit of context because I had a quick look at our coverage this year into companies that are in adjacent areas as blah blah car. Uh you know, there's not such a direct competitor to it, but in adjacent areas. And we saw that in 2026 there's around seventy seven million Euros in funding that have kind of gone to these kinds of adjacent areas, right? So with that in mind. How do you see blah blah car in the landscape in which it operates on and where it will go five, ten years from now? Okay. Uh before answering, can you tell me what what are the adjacent uh activities that you've been looking at? Do you have any other things? Yeah, mobility and travel. Okay . Well, a lot of things have been uh evolving in in mobility and uh of course uh the our relationship with mobility has evolved from uh being owners of uh the solution that brings us around, like whether it be a car or even a a a bicycle, uh to really uh um booking it directly on your smartphone and so not being an order but really sharing the the usage. Uh this has changed in 10 years drastically. I mean the young generation just um don't really think about owning their own vehicle. They just want to have it on their their phone. Which means what they compare when they they s talk about mobility is the um uh the uh the comfort and the speed and um uh ergonomy of the app that they use to move around. It's not uh even anymore the uh comfort or uh or exactly the the uh the mean uh of the the the vehicle itself. So it it's moved . And so in that space uh of course blah blah car becomes uh a lot more um easy to use uh year after year so we improve the ergonomy, we make it so that uh it's possible to get your rise uh possibly until uh the last minute and also to uh have um the possibility to find drivers on your way uh uh so directly they can stop and stop by take you and then drop you off somewhere else uh on their ride without having to do the full ride with them of course. Uh and also the on the other part we want to simplify the lives of uh the all the uh travelers around. So that's why we are placing everything in one single app so that they don't need to be using several services. So we place carpooling, we place buses and we place now the trains in the same app so that you find everything here you can compare uh like uh the the starting and ending points uh the the prices of course the comfort um uh of uh and and the means of transport and so you can really compare all your travel options in one single place so which means we simplify the journey of uh the people looking for traveling. So uh this vision we deploy it in several countries and uh in all the countries we are when we can so uh we are combining uh the carpool with buses and with trains when possible and so this is really the the trajectory that we're taking to uh make lives of the travelers easier well uh thank you, Fred, for this uh great blah blah. Uh it's uh it's been a pleasure to have you on the podcast and uh to be able to chat to you about these things. And uh I I I hope uh to see you again soon . And uh yes, it's been a pleasure. Thank you, David.