Future Outlook and Driver Market

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But should we be surprised that people who are training for that moment are therefore able to deliver when the opportunity comes along? And I think that's the key thing Someone who's really committed will do whatever it takes to get in the best car That's what I truly believe But some things are beyond a driver's control I was committed to staying with the fastest car, but Frank changed his mind and then changed his mind again I was racing for Williams. But I was sitting on the side of the McLarean lawyers. The whole thing was totally unnecessary Hello and welcome to F one Beyond the Grid with me, Tom Clgs. I'm intrigued by the driver market at the moment, and which domino will fall first to trigger a frenzy? It's led me to think more about how drivers get themselves into the best seats to ensure they have everything they need to be successful. And while David Coulthard never won a world title, his thirteen wins twelve pos and sixty two podiums proved that he was often fighting at the front. So how did he make his way into those faster cars From driving for Williams after the death of Eron Senna to an astonishing legal battle that saw him leave for McLaren. And then joining Red Bull as a player manager nine years later David tells the stories that shaped his Formula One career It's really interesting to hear DC's attitudes and approach to success, including the way he dealt with the big name team bosses like Ron Dennis and how he tried to use the media to his advantage They see How are you? I'm good. I'm good, thanks. I think I'm probably in slightly better shape than you because I've not just run a marathon. So you got blisters and cramps and all sorts of all of that Difficult to walk, I have to say But I've got the bug actually. Marathon running is where it's at. And I think I can say the same for Sebastian Vettel probably. very impressive what he did. And should we be surprised because he's still a young man? He's got all of the sort of competitive genes that understands focus, discipline, preparation And then of course through to the execution. So maybe this has become his next bug, you know, he's going to be Aiming for what would be an impressive amateur time? Could you did under three hours? in under three, there's a stack of people, I think that get to about two hundred thirty. But he'll now be thinking I can do two hundred thirty. And do you know what? we're not here to talk about marathons by the way, but his ability to absorb information. He treated it like a grand Prix actually, the marathon in terms of his preparation and I learnnt a lot about him and about preparation, really? DC F off we're talking about a racing driver in him because you are someone who has lived and worked in Formula One for more than thirty years. Very few people know this padock better than you. and I wanted to discuss how drivers get themselves into the right place the right time. You know, when you look at a Max Verstappen, it looks easy. but there are a lot of very talented drivers who never get there. How difficult is it Treded to bit difficult. There's no question that The racing gods or a bit of racing lock is needed. youre being in the right place at the right time, available with the right preparation But should we be surprised that people who are prepped people that are training for that moment are therefore able to deliver when the opportunity comes along. And I think that's the key thing. If you look at the current grid, We go back to when Carlos Signs was at Ferrari, he has appendicitis gets pulled out of the car and suddenly with no prior undernderstanding that he was about to make he's grown pre debut, you have Oliver Bermann jump in the car go out and deliver And then suddenly that cements very strongly the foundations of what I'm sure will be a long career. All the rums are that he will be at Ferrari in the future. The thing that stands in the way of him is well if Louis has a great year, then he's probably want he'll probably want to go again for another year. and then you know, unless Charles is out of contract and decides to go somewhere else, which ' possible, but seems unlikely then he's maybe going to have to be a little bit patient like we saw with George Russell probably stayed a bit longer at Williams than he would have liked There was no room at the end within Mercedes. So timing is definitely a key part. being prepped and making sure that you know, either yourself And I always believe that it's important to put yourself forward. You can have a manager But at the end of the day, they're not signing the manager they're signing you. So have the confidence to put yourself in front of the various decision makers How important is was a manager because famously, Gehard Berger says, I didn't want a manager because I wanted to keep all of the money for myself You did variously, you know, IMG, huge agency behind you. Th then you worked with Martin Brundell What did a manager do for you that you couldn't have done yourself? So I got introduced to IMG, which were, as you say, a big management agency of that era. They were working with Senna, Pross, Chumakur and some of his business. and it was through Paul Stewart racing Jackie Stewart's son's team that they had a relationship with IMG for many years. Jackie had been managed by Mark McCormack, who's no longer with us. My guess was part of them speculatively having some young drivers, which was, I guess at the beginning of that curve. There's lots of management companies out there now that are managing kids in carting, offering them the dream. As long as you pay us some money, we will offer you the dream of future Stardom. And it's a trading business that they're hoping that one of them comes through and proves to be successful But I started into Formula onene with IMG, which I don't really feel that they put me in a place to become a Grndfri driver because I'd been testing for Williams anyway. I tested in ninetine to ninety one, ninety two, ninety three And in the beginning, I wasn't paid to test. I was just called up to go and do aera running and things like that. So it was It was let's say, a pretty low level relationship and then it became more formal. then the what happened in Emma, which no one could have predicted happened And even then, you couldn't lobby Williams to put you in the car. And I actually remember saying to my manager, Tim Wright at the time, after the weekend of Emmila saying We don't speak We don't call Fr and Kirpatrick. we don't Team know me I've been testing for a few years. We're not going to be those people that are going, well, one of your drivers is no longer with us. We have a driver for you. And I felt very strong that that wasn't the thing to do. And I know that a number of drivers, of course, did reach out to the team or managers had reached out to the team going, Hey, you need a driver And I think I think the approach was the right way. So eventually the team, once the emotion was understood and they got on with the business of gnd pre racing, they decided to put me in the car for a single race It was that was it. I had to prove in that single race that I be a servant to the team And then that led to me sharing the car with Nigel Manl over the course of I did eight Grand Priz in ' ninety four, which then led to the full time drive. And what I believe took me to being a full time Grandri driver from ninety five on boards was my commitment. I was there at the factory. I was with the team. I was living close by. And I think Nigel as an experienced former Grand Prix champion He was sort of flying in from America. He'd come and do the race.' buuzz out again, you know, he was in that routine of Well, you know what I can do. so I'm not going to stay around and sort of know spend time with the team But I think that's exactly what Williams needed at that time through the emotion and the difficulty of ' ninety four, which was traumatic Rll and Rataxzenberger, of course, and then with Erton. I think the team needed a reset of sort of family commitment rather than just, you know high end High performers coming in It seemed that you owned that relationship with Williams. So what was IMG doing for you then at the time That well, you've started to sort of hesitate It difficult, of course, always to see what people are doing. Andrew Hampple was one of the senior people, Ian Todd, who went on to work with Nike. Tim Wright was my designated manager. He was keeping Formula O teams across my results in Formula three thousand. And I remember Patrick head saying to him, look, can you stop sending letters which is what people did back then. nowadays it would be an email. so they were I guess lobbying the name and doing that kind of managerial side, but very difficult to sell or to find sponsorship for a young driver. So they weren't really doing that. They were, I guess just I remember him him saying to Ron Dennis, you know, it'd be really nice if you gave David a watch and I remember Ron going, well why would I want to give David watch? I was a former three thousand driver and And he going,, because then he'll really feel connected to you and And he's going I run McLlaredn and he'll feel connected to me wh whether I do that or not. So there was probably some missteps in that process. but what was a sort of low point in that relationship? through the relations they had with Arton and And Alan, they had a showoy contract, both the drivers at that time, and they'd managed to leverage a helmet for me when I was in Formula three out of Showe and they brought that helmet to Bran's Hatch when I was testing. and they took it out of the cover. And my helmet, as you will well remember, is a white cross on a blue helmet. Blue background, it's the Scottish flag, it's called the Sultar They took the helmet out. It was a blue cross on a white background. And I think that might be the Finnish flag or something. but just they say that's really bad. They just didn't get the importance of the crash helmet. You know helelmets, as you know, are the most personal thing that the race driver has. and it's something that we really connect with So when I ended up racing for Williams in ninety five through into ninety six, I actually then to Mark McCormack had a multi yearar contract asking to come out of the contract because I just felt that I wanted something more racing centric. I wanted something more personal to Formula one I don't doubt that IMG, like all of these other big companies would be commercially very good because that's the space they live in But I was never, the money was never the motivation for me. It was what is the best that I can be in, what is the best environment I can be in? This episode is sponsored by Shopify One thing I've always admired about people who start their own businesses is that at some point they simply decide to give it a go. 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Sign up for your one dollar a month trial at shopify dot com slash beyond the grid. Go to shhopify dot com slash beyond the grid. That's shhopify dot com slash beyond the grid. This episode is sponsored by Vanta One thing nobody really tells you when you start a business is how much time can end up going into proving your company is trustworthy. Customers want reassurance around security, compliance and risk management before they'll even consider working with you. And that can really slow deals down if you're not already across things behind the scenes. And that's exactly the kind of challenge Santa is built to help with Panta automates your compliance process and brings compliance, risk and customer trust together on one AI powered platform. So whether you're preparing for a SoOC two or managing a larger enterprise GRC program Vanta helps keep everything organized and keeps your deals moving. Companies like Ramp and Witer spend eighty two percent less time on audits with VantA. So it's not just faster compliance, it's more time to focus on growing the business. And it's no wonder that over ten thousand companies from startups to large enterprises trust VantA to help them improve security and build customer confidence. So get started at vanta. com slash That's Vanta. com slash grid End of ninety five. You're in a Williams You've just won your first Grand Prix at the Portuguese Grand Prix and McLaren were having a torid time, right? They just switched to Mercedes engines and ninety five was a real low point for them. So if you're trying to get yourself in the best car, Why walk away he from the best car. Yeah.solutelys a good question. But we have to take a step back to ninety four. So numbers wise, nineteen ninety four, I did eight races. So I was a test driver I had a test driver contract for Williams and I was being paid thirty thousand pounds. Um A reasonable amount of money in nineteen ninety four, certainly probably better than people with a higher education were probably haning at that time And then I did the Reaces where I was paid five thousand pounds a Reis Right. And so at the end of that year, I had been paid seventy thousand pounds to be a grandy driver What was Mancell getting per race just out a million per race And did you know that at the time? Of course, I heard the rumors and I' not happy. But anyway again, I was never once was I complaining about money, but I did have a conversation with Frank at the Canadian Grand Prix in nineteen ninety four, which is where I scored my first points because they withholding tax agreement with Canada was a flat rate of ten thousand Canadian dollars for every driver. So whether you were Nigel or Erton or Schumacher or a young guy like me doing my second Grand Prix, you were obliged to pay ten thousand Canadian dollars as a withholding tax. Well, I was only earning five thousand pounds, which was less than ten thousand Canadian dollars. So I went to Frank and said, you know, Mr. Williams, could you please help me with the tax because otherwise I'm basically I'm paying to be here at the Grand Prix and he thought about it and went So I effectively paid to score my first point, which is not unusual to have paying drivers in forormula O, you just don't associate that with Williams. So it's fair to say it was a little bit hand to mouth. I was still living sharing a house, a rented house in Milton Keyes with some mechanics and please tell me that Frank was paying your expenses. Yes, the flight the flight to the hotel was big Yeah, absolutely. So by the end of that first year And bear in mind, I had an overdraft debt of three hundred twenty thousand pounds which had been run up to race and form the three thousand So at the end of that year, about seventy thousand ten percent of that would be going to the management Some of it were going to my, let's say life expenses and a little bit would be going to drawing down that three hundred twenty thousand pounds that I woulde. which was secured against the family transport business. So we get to the end of the year, ' ninety four. We've agreed, so my management have agreed a two year contract, ninety five, ninety six to Dve for Williams. We go at the end of nineteen ninety four December to sign that contract And as the lawyerers getting the paperwork out. So you see I was signing into the end of ' ninety six Frank goes, I've changed my mind. I want to do a one year contract. So the lawyers go off, okay, said we've got to scribble out ninety ninety six I take some time out with my manager to go into another office and we call Ron Dennis because Ron had approached us in ' ninety four already to look at whether we were available to join McLlouod and And we said we're No we're going to resign with Williams So we phoneedon Ron says, come to the factory. I'll sign a contract with you for ' ninety six Narow. No. So we say for ninety five We drive for Williams We go to walking. We sign a contract for ninety six, ninety seven at McLodn And I then drive up to Scotland to spend Christmas with my mum and dad. And I remember telling my parents, I'm going to be a forormula O driver for the next three years and they', Ohh, that's lovely. And I said, it'll be one year with Williams and two years with McLaren. And of course, they were like, how does that work? Well, it works because people change their mind. And then halfway through ' ninety five decides that he wants me for ninety six. And we're like We're not available And then he tries to use the contract recognition board A we enforce the test driver contract, which was a multiye contract that ran through until I think ' ninety eight and So this hopefully is not too confusing for the listener, but We had to go to the lawyer's office in Geneva, which is where all of the Formula One driver' contracts are lodged at the contract recognition board And I was racing for Williams, but I was sitting on the side of the McLeoddon lawyers and Martin Whitmarsh, who worked with Ron Dennis Whilst the lawyers of the contract recognition board looked at the paperwork that Williams had, looked at the paperwork that the McLann had and decided that Actually, McCLan's contract was valid and that I would drive them in ninety six, ninety seven. I then went to the airport and flew with Frank, who was in the meeting to the Nix Grand Prix. The whole thing was you totally it up. Yeah, absolutely, totally unnecessary if Frank had signed ultimately the contract that we'd agreed at the end of ' ninety four. So I finished that year with Williams. and then that nineteen ninety five Adelaide I'd been leading the Grand Prix crashed out, as you recall It cost half a million pounds win bonus at Williams, and it cost me two million dollars over my McLaren ninety six ninety sevenents. So it was an expensive crash. And went to I went to dinner that night with Ron Dennis and his ex wife And I'm sitting there on my own going Okay, right. so I'm now a McLaren driver. So that's how that came about. That's you didn't walk away from the fastest car, you'd committed to McLaren before. Yeah, absolutely. And I was committed to staying with the fastest car, but Frank changed his mind and then changed his mind again. Was it an emotional decision to ring McLaren that day that Frank sort of reneged on the original deal? Yeah was I was understandably disappointed that I'm there ready to sign Pper contract for two years with a team that I've been racing for. and They changed their mind and I think the reason they changed their mind was because Damon Hill was His lawyer was really pushing on trying to get Demon a big contract. And Frank probably just got to the point where he was going, well, drivers are pissing me off So I'll put them both in a one year contract. But the risk to him was he would lose me. and he did. The risk to me was I went to a less competitive McLaren for ' ninety six. I think did Damon won ninety six and Jack won ninety seven But then ninety eight. MacLlod and came good. So hard for you. Did you look over your shoulder a bit and go I went fromt been meet. Yeah I went from leading the last race of ' ninety five in Adelaide and then four months later, I'm sitting I think fourteenth on the grid in Melbourne And at that point, the penny dropped. just what the difference in performance was And so I do recall Not that I made the move for money, I made the move for security of contract. But I do remember at that point thinking, I will never make a move ever again based on, let's say, security or financial. It will always be only about performance. And you can never know one year to the next, of course, but you get trends of performance. So when you have big regulation change like we just had, it shakes everything up. But when you have year to year of stability, you do tend to see the same teams towards the front What is a driver prepared to put up withs in order to get in the best car? Well, Erton Senna famously told when he was at McLaren and Alan Pross was there ninety three, he famously went in the media and said, I will drive for Williams for nothing I'll drive for free Because of course that suddenly makes people go, o, well, if we're not paying the driver at X amount a million That's money that we can invest in the team. so the engineers will like that, the team owner will like that. So I think Someone who's really committed will do whatever it takes to get in the best car That's what I truly believe. And I spent nine years with McLaren and at various times they had the best car and at various times it wasn't. The move to Red Bull. was about unfinished business. It was I knew it wasn't the best car, but I truly believed I could play a part in helping deevelop and structure that team towards being a winning team in the future, which turned out to be the case. know the team did on to be very successful. and that comes from an absolute belief that Formmula one is always about people always about people. If you've got the right group of people working together, it's not always about who's the biggest talent or You know, who's got the biggest brain or the best degree? You've got to have people that've got a willingness to work together and to have each otherss back. So for me, the most successful teams are a little bit like SAS or any form of spepecial forces. No human gets left behind They defend each other. and when you see teams break down, it's because you get little factions of well, it's their fault, it's their fault, and that's when you no longer have a team. Having been in the sort of strait jacket of McLaren for nine years, did you enjoy the player manager role And almost was it liberating to go to Yeah read. It was in many ways, the right environment at the right time in my life. I was into my thirties, I had Formula onene experience and knowledge, I had life experience. and I think that's the key thing that we don't always take into account when we're talking about drivers. You know, Kimy Antinelli right now is leading the worldor Championship brilliantly fast young talent. He's still a boy you cannot You can't make a man out of someone that hasn't had life man experiences. and you'll know as a parent And anyone else who's gone into the thirties It doesn't make you quicker But you're just more worldly. You're more capable of making decisions of going, No, that doesn't work for me That's how I'm going to get the best out of myself and having the confidence and the environment that you're working. So that's why I think you need to, you don't judge somebody on a couple of race wins You judge somebody on can they handle the pace of a Grand Prix season? Can they do it back to back We've seen brilliant drivers, you know, people like Hain Haddle Frrenon, who win in a Jordan. He won one race in a Williams, which was a race winning championship winning car, but somehow when the pressure of expectation Some drivers don't deliver and when they're in, let's say away from that spotlight, they extract performance from a car that you go, wow, that's impressive. I always thought of Janarlo Fizicella is another driver.? Fizzy? Montoya, brilliantly fast, doesn't give a shit attitude, but came to McLaren replacing me spent a year and then he was on his way again because it just didn't work out. So you know, drivers like that that have got so much potential, but somehow don't manage, you know, Daniel Ricciardo, Daniel brilliantly fast racing driver. But I think as he's now recognized and he's done an interview this year talking about He started to feel he was losing losing his way towards the end of his career, notot because he was old, but He got distracted. He got distracted by what the world was offering him. key focus always has to be Stop watchatch, Checker flag. They're your two North stars in Formula O. How difficult is it to maintain that focus as you get richer as you get more famous Aolutely. It is difficult because you get used to people going, yes, And I remember I went from test driver Williams being told what to do to being a Grompree driver and the same people saying, David, would you mind couldould you please And you you start to go, hold on, I can say no And you go, No I don't want to do that and And they go, okay, no problem. Whereas when you're the test driver, you say no, they'll go, well, we'll get someone else to do it. Do you want to be the test driver? I never said no is the point. But when if I take that attitude of discovering what works for me within the Grand Pri paddig When I had the confidence to go, you know, that timing doesn't work. Can we move it because this will enable me to be better prepared But yeah, for sure, you end up becoming a bit spoiled. And around thirty years old, you know I was in Formula onene for several years. I was earning millions had the plane crash on an aircraft that I didn't need to be on. The aircraft that I was normally using was booksed, let's say for two o'clock. I woke up early in London, I wanted to go back to Monaco, I got on the phone to my office, said let's bring the plan earlier and they were like, Well, your aircraft isn't available. I said, Find me another one You know, it's ridiculous. They find me another one. I turn up, say hi to the pilots. an hour later. we You know, the plane crashes, they're dead and I'm going, ah, okay. so maybe mayaybe being a little bit more patient, a little bit more humble, a little bit less I, you know, me, me me. should be a lifesaver And you know, that marked my moment of growing up, and then the next few years were my strongest years in Formula one I always thought you were very good at using the media We had some great pre season lunches at the Bluebird restaurant in, didn't we? Dception is nine tenths of the law in this paddock, isn't it? If enough people say something, whether it's true or not, people will start to believe it How did you use the media as a driver? Well, I wanted to build personal relationships because my belief is that that gives you the benefit of the doubt more often So I didn't have the attitude of I don't want to talk to anyone and the media out of the enemy U for me, it was we all work and live within this world as ecosystem of Formula One. I've got one of the best seats in the house as a driver How do I do everything in my power to make sure that I'm getting the best car, best opportunity? fulfilling my talent And when Things are not going so well, which will happen How am I going to have the benefit of the doubt rather than immediately being blamed or it's a driver assault. how do you build relationships with the people that are influential and the media are influential. They are the You know, they are the voices of the sports that carry the news around the world. So yeah, I always placed importance. And what have you learned about the media now that you're working in it that you wish you'd known when you were racing I wish I just had the wider knowledge and experience of how words can craft opinion and how some members of the media will use Y you to stimulate a story. so it could be going to Michael going David said that your driving is totally unacceptable because he's going to go, Well, I don't give up shred about him, you know, just another guy that It makes up the numbers. So they can create a attension, which is part of their remit to get a reaction. If everything's all smashy and nicey, then you're not really going to get the human element of reaction And some drivers are very know, Jack and Pabloa Montoya were always very much what you see is what you get They had no problem to just bl where I was maybe a little bit more considered in my answ, was a bit more diplomatic on occasions. But would you drop a bomb with a friendly journalist. just if you're trying to put pressure on on Ron Dennis to give you a few more quid or change something in your contract for the following year, might you go up to a journalist and say Yeah I had a really interesting chat with with Ferrari Chuck Absolute. Did you do a bit of that even if you hadn't. I'm not a liar at Tom, I'm not a liar. But sharing information with key people is part of the game. you're telling something to a trusted journalist in confidence You absolutely know. O the record has a boundary which you know, you don't want that to be broken, but you know that you can then have something that's going to, you know, little rumors build. So yeah, it's s part of the business at Formul One Gting yourself in the seat is difficult enough staying there when everyone wants your seat, if you're not having good performance, it's the other driver manager' job to get in there and speak to the journalist going, Well, David's not doing a good job. He'd been much better putting theyen in the car or whatever happens to be. So that's part of the game. Everyone looks so sort of friendly and all the drivers get along, but behind the scenes, they want each other's seats. They want to do whatever's necessary to get the best car. On that note, I think the paddock is more friendly now than it was in your day. wouldould you agree? I'm talking between the drivers. betweenween the drivers There was animosity between some of you guys. hundred percent. Yeah It's a lot friendlier Fmula one And the paddock is a lot friendlier. And I think Red Bull brought that more openness when they started with the energy station and they started doing chilled Thursday nights where other team members could come to Red Bull's hospitality to have a coffee or have a drink at the end of work And you could see it was, you know, people like Ron Danis were like, well, hold on, I don't want our guys going in there It was very territorial and famously, I've only ever been in Ferrari's motor homeome twice in thirty years. O Even now? Yeah. I went in once to have a meeting with Jant Tode. And once because I was flying back to Switzerland with Michael And after the race, he'd fallen asleep in his driver room, and everyone's packing up. So I said to them, well you so I was going in and said Michael We have to go. You need to wake up. So I never You just didn't go into rival teams hospitalities And and even you know, working as I do in television, I'll go into McLaren for a briefing or I'll go into Red Bull because I still do show rununs them, but I never really go into other team hospitalities if I don't have a reason to go there to meet someone because they've got partners, their sponsors whatever it is that they're doing that's important. They don't need me going in and getting in the way. How did the meeting with Jean Tld go, by the way? I ended up having a further meeting with him in Paris at his apartment near the Chon Eise to talk about a contract for them and it was interesting because I It was the same time when I was coming out of my IMG contract. And I'd ask B on Eichkelson to help me. to the owner of IMG whose name I've just forgotten right now M Mcormack, Mark McCormack. Because when on the level that I was talking to to try and come out of my contract, they were saying, no, we have a contract, that's it. And I understood I would have to pay something to leave the contract, but they just weren't entertaining the idea So I went to meet with Bownney, asked him if he could speak to Mark McCormark on my behalf coincided with the time I'd just come back from a meeting with Jean Tode in Paris And Bernie said, to are you thinking about going to Fari? And I went, Well, you know, every driver would love to be with Fari at some point, but I think I'm happy at McLoud I then left that meeting, went to have a meeting with my lawyers, and I get a call from Ron going What's this you want to leave and go to Ferrari? Beri had spoken to him and, you know, Jean Todde. they were manipulating the environment. and I was like I know I don't want to go to Fari. I want to stay with McCln.. But it showed you that at that level, these guys all knew what was going on and they were just drivers are like the pollens they move around This episode is sponsored by Lisa. I've talked a lot on this show about all the opportunities that come from tralling through the Formula One season, but I have to be honest, nothing quite compares to getting home and sleeping in my own bed again. Which is why I'm delighted to be partnering with Lisa for this episode because at home we've had our current mattress for far too long, and we finally decided it's time to replace it. But to be honest, I didn't really know where to start. I just know that if a mattress is too firm or too soft, my back definitely lets me know about it. But Lisa's online sleep quiz was genuinely really helpful. 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This episode is sponsored by Indeed There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes of this show, booking guests across time zones, tight turnar edits, and constant time management. And when things get chaotic, you realize pretty quickly how important it is to have the right person on your team. If I had to hire someone tomorrow, I wouldn't just want a good editor. I'd want someone who understands pace in long form interviews work fast under pressure. And in moments like that, you think This is a job for sponsored jobs. Because Indeed sponsored jobs boost your listing in search results, helping you reach the candidates with the specific skills and experience you actually need. And it works. Sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are ninety five percent more likely to report a hire than nons sponsored jobs That's a serious edge when the pressure iss on Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time. more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for indeed sponsored jobs. And listeners of this show will get a seventy five dollars sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at indeed d. com slash podcast. Just go to indndeed. com slash podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about indndeed on this podcast. Indeed d. com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply need to hire. This is a job for indeed sponsored jobs When we talk about the lure of Ferrari then, I mean, is it true that every driver would like to race for Ferrari contemplates the idea. Yeah. I never I never had this big passion for Ri growing up. You know, the British teams as a young guy watching Formula One and television, I was drawn to British teams even when Dijo went to Ferrari and had, you know and revered He won his first Grand prie for Ferrari. It was, you know, it was an amazing story. But I think having raced a little bit in Europe in Carting and the lower formulas, there was a comfort for me in British teams. and in British teams, we know are international. You have every nationality working within them. but I think I felt a security of knowing what I was dealing with that I would have been uncomfortable doing that at Ferrate. and I think for Lewis, it must be challenging. He spent all his life with British racing teams And he's there withithin Feradi picking up the language, but not fluent in the language. You know, Charles is embedded. he's been there for some time And the teams are so big now, no matter how much Lewis will tell us he's been at the factory and he's been on the simulator. to affect change and influence change in an organisation that large It just takes a long, long time and I'm not sure he'll have the time to really make his the way he was able to I think Mercedes were shaped around his needs and it was tremendously successful. It's like they're like big oil tankers these deam.t they It takes a while. Yeah. Dy, when I think of the lure of Ferrari, I just always come back to Jean Alisi who turned down The nineteen ninety one Williams because they went on to dominate I think he'd even signed a contract with Frank actually. I believe so, because I think Eddie Jordan was involved at that time. Yeah. So part of that deal Frank got a Ferrari Formula onene car out of releasing Jean to go to Ferrari. So I don't know which Formula one car that was in the Williams collllection But that was Frank's P off for having had a contract with Jean and Jean wanting to join Ferrari, that the Williams organization got a Ferrari and an old F one car for their collection. So yeah, look, I get it, with Jean. And Jean's a great friend. His passion for motor racing is still very much there. He's the president of Pul Ricard race trrack, so I'll be with him next weekend for the Paul Ricard classic. He was racing in the Monaco classic I saw he had a little shunt in one of the Ferraris. thankfully he wasn't injured, but a little bit of damage to these incredibly expensive classic cars. But yeah, passion took him there. And as we know the history books, he only had one victory in Montreal. but I'm delighted he did get a victory, but I think in terms of raw talent, he was one of the the fastest guys out there Engineering now How much can a quick driver mask the deficiencies in a car? I think the exceptionals, so they're all good in Formula One, and the most arrogant statement you'll get out of me is to say I was a good Formula One driver Sport is about exceptional And the exceptionals are the names that we can all mention, you know, the Schumacers, the Hamiltons, the Vestappens, the Seners and anyone who's won multiple world championships, They're exceptional. You can win a world championship through being in the right place at the right time. and not to take anything away from Keicky Rosberg, but he famously won a worldld Championship winning one Grand Prix. You know, that's not historically what you associate with the greats of the sport who the ruff for the neck of the car and go on and win multiple Grand Pries. So How would you put a number on that I guess you would have to average their performance relative to their teammates overver the time they were in Formula One, people like said I could be half a second or more, you know, famously a second quicker than Prost once in Monaco in a qualifying lab, but such was the advantage they had. I think AlM was still second on the grid Actually, we spoke about this off here I think last year, when Formula one was so close, the grid was covered by a second It was one of the years, I think it was ninety nine, Mika was on poll in Barcelona, I was second and I was seven tenths slower Michael was third and he was seven tenth slower than me. So the top three were covered by one point four seconds grid was like four seconds We just come out of an era where the entire grid was covered by a second. So you know the sport has evolved. But I think in terms of the grates, they've got to have a couple of tenths in their pocket. And I think it's if you actually break a couple of tenths down to a five and a half kilometer racetrack with nineteen or twenty corners Cn as obviously is where the influence side Tiny, tiny amounts of time. We're talking thousands of a second in every single corner that makes them exceptional So we're not talking that they're just stronger and they can bench press an extra twenty kilos just the mind controls the body Their mind is able to process the feeling of grip visually as they approach the corner and then physically when they're in the corner, when the cars at the limit of adhesion. They just Do it better And it's tiny margins that makes exceptionals talk about processing, right? Would you agree that all the greats strong intellect. I think it's a different kind of brightness because you could look at Anigel Mantsel and his communication style with the team when things weren't going well was quite blunt instrument. It was quite Ver often you see him ranting at his engineer on the pitwall and storming off throwing his gloves into the crowd. you know, it was it It was not. Yeah it was an emotional emotional and unintelligent fashion. But you've got to have bravery, you've got to have commitment, you've got to have belief. you've got to have the intelligence to understand how to work the political system in the garage because you're constantly lobying the new development you want on your car team may rationalize putting it on the other car because they're ahead of you in the championship or the risk is it doesn't work and there you are being supported You've got to know which battles to fight. And the battles you're fighting as a young driver is against people like Frank Williams or Ron Dennis People have been around a long time and they've negotiated with some very successful drivers, but you learn., you know, if If you really want to be the best you can within your environment, You figure out what are the things like I figured out the way to soft and run was to have any conversation starting talking about his family If I could get his family in his mind who famously kept away from the forormula one padding. You could see him disarm and then I would get into the conversation of what I needed, what I wanted, what you know, I was there to try and get something out of the conversation Uh Adrienne knew the way to get Adrien to work at Red Bull was through his ex wife, he and I'm sure you know his wife today is very influential because Adrienne is very, very much a focus engineer has creative skills, and a lot of other things probably not so important to him So you learn How to get the best out of people That's part of the role. How do I soften someone to get what I want? How do I know move someone to one side because they're getting in the way of what I need in my performance So it's a political game as well as being a racing driver game. You could do that brilliantly. Do you think the Verstappens, the Hamiltons, the Leclercks doing it as well. I have to believe they're doing it because they're all at incredibly high level. You know, I think that Lewis has his emotional intelligence. He's clearly an incredibly talented race driver, but he's a softer personality than Nigel Mantsel and his approach U, you know, we all famously remember Erton Absolute commitment doing interviews where he is The fact that there is a room of people around when he's connecting with the person that he's making the point to You know, hes he's on you and you would feel that because that was commitment. So they all have their different way of positioning themselves within a team. but yeah, I'm not going to say that any of them are going to sudden re engage with university and come out with a degree. But I think that there is there's a social intelligence, a human intelligence and obviously inability to feel the edge of adhesion And that processing, just go back to the marathon. I was stunned with how much information Vettel could absorb and remember, just talking about his training program as We remember anything that will give us performance Things that will not give us performance, we forget No interest An that is going to give a technical edge or a small edge That's there, ready to be pulled. I know we're here to talk about drivers, but just in the last half hour or so, it's really struck me, why are you not running forormula O one team. And I'm actually asking you a serious question there because you get the sport, you get the politics, you get how to get the best out of people But maybe I will, wonder. Right now I'm doing. Yeah. Would that interest you? Yeah of course, of course. I love the sport. And but right now my skills are deployed in the areas that I've chosen over the last few years, you know, beyond what I do within the paddock with television, then I'm a shareholder and Whisper, which is one of the fastest growing production businesses over the last fifteen years. know I'm involved with Philosopy experperience where we were doing the McLaren event down in And in downtown Miami this weekend, we were doing some work with San Pellegrino at another place. We worked with Vistajets. you know we We are across a number of the partners and too busy to run a fm on teamD. Well I'm busy with all of those things as well. So you cannot be to use a Jackie Stewart expression. you cannot be a little bit pregnant You've either got to be fully committed or as I am with my partners in my other businesses, I fulfill the roes that I can to help enhance those businesses and they get on with their skills set the leadership, skills that they have to run the businesses. I know youve got to go. I've got two more questions if I may. One is Okay Looking at the twenty six grid The silly season, driver silly season is going to kick off. gets earlier and earlier, doesn't it? Who is the most sought after driver in Formula One, who is the first Domino to full and then everything else slips into place afterwards. Who are we waiting for? Well I think Ferari, we're waiting on Lewis obviously to decide if his year continues as it started, then I suspect that he'll naturally want to keep going because he's done a great job in the first few Grand Prix Time stands still for nobody, but as we're seeing with Fernando, forty four, forty five just become a dad then he's not being at all outperformed by Lance with within that team.