Reflecting on Senna and Career

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So the next time you need someone to get the job done right, get matched with quality candidates with an indeed sponsored job. Visit indeed.com/slash next hire and sponsor your job today. If there's one thing Formula One proves, it's that progress comes from people who are willing to push the limits. And history is full of them. The inventors, engineers, leaders, and outsiders who change the game through bold ideas, nerves, and moments of brilliance. That's what the podcast Short History of is all about . Each vividly immersive episode delves into one remarkable subject from world history, from re volutionary people and world-changing inventions to defining events that still shape our lives today. So if you love innovation, ambition, and stories about what happens when people go all in, give Give Short History of a listen. Search for Short History Of wherever you get your podcasts . I was the best. I was the best in a damp condition, no question. The Ferrari mechanics are already leaning over the arm coat, ready to greet him her, and what a hero he's gonna be. The mechanics in Ferrari they are special. They live what you live. John Alacy wins the Canadian Broad 3 The emotion was uh so big and look at John Alacy out of the cockpit for me a win is like a world cup Jean Alacy, a one-win wonder who wrote his name into F1 and Ferrari folklore on that very special day in Montreal back in 1995 . Hello everyone and welcome to F1 Beyond the Grid with me, Tom Clarkson . From a lap of honour on the back of Michael Schumacher's Benetton to visiting the Vatican a few days later, Jean celebrated his one and only Grand Prix victory in unique style. He knows he could and should have won more races, but he feels as much joy and happiness when reliving those memories now as he did when taking the checkered flag 31 years ago. It's very infectious. There are more great stories from other parts of Jean's career as well, including the time he borrowed something from a rather unimpressed Ayrton Senna. Great to have you on the show again. And it's lovely to see you at a race again. You still love Formula One, don't you? It's not about love, it's really a passion. For me, uh F1 is uh my life. Um as a driver and now I'm a supporter, I'm a super fan. I watch everything . Well, today can I take you back to 1995, Montreal very excited about that. Your first win, you're in car number twenty-seven in a Ferrari on your thirty-first birthday. When you think back to that amazing day. W ishat the first memory that comes to mind? The first memory is uh the last uh lapse because um in our days we had the cars very fragile um just to remind a bit because we forgot about that. Our engine we had at the time in Ferrari was a V12 engine, 17,000 reps . So you know all these vibrations and uh you you have to cross the fingers to say please please uh stay in one piece you know because um people sometimes think uh i exaggerate because i they can say okay only we want a uh one race, you know, and he's so excited about that. But uh back to uh uh these days, uh if I look my career, I did 32 podiums. Uh my first race uh I finished fourth. Ran second. Yeah. That was back in 89 in the territory. And um I had many, many possibilities to win the Grand Prix, but always something was happening and uh I was not able to to make it happen to have more wins. So for me, a win is like a world cup and so you talk about the last ten laps because of course Schuma cher had his electrical problem here in Montreal, didn't he? And do you start hearing strange noises from the engine? Do you start questioning everything when you're in the lead with so little of the race still to go? Yeah absolutely that was uh my main issue was to bring back the car. Uh and uh Gerhard had uh during the race uh a fuel uh issue because we were really on the limit with the fuel tank and uh just in uh in lap in a pit lane his engine stop he ran out of fuel and i ran out of fuel in my uh in lap uh after the finish line so you know, we were always thinking can the the car stay in one piece. Let's break down the weekend. And can we start by talking about the track, the circuit Gilles Villeneuve. You'd you'd always gone well here, you'd already had a couple of podiums in ninety two and ninety-four. What was it about the track that brought out the best in Jornalice ? I was uh uh a good uh breakout. So uh my really uh special point was uh the braking and uh this is a circuit where you you hit the brakes with a very high speed, like in Monza , where I go uh well as well . So What about the car? The four one two you've spoken about the V twelve, but was it a was it a nice car to drive? I mean it was a quick car, but was it driv able? For me, this car was the best car I drove for my whole career. Extremely fragile. I mean I broke everything, push rods, gearbox eng ins, fuel pump. Everything was uh step by step uh going away. But except that the car was always everywhere fast. In Monza , in uh Monaco, in Montreal, on a wet uh wet condition, this car was just amazing and very driveable very drivable without power steering so the the the the steering wheel was a bit heavy but except that uh we uh we deal with it tell us more about the lack of power steering because of course today the the drivers have power steering. Just how physical was it? You know, many times we see uh with the new cars uh with a button they have on the steering wheel and they uh they change the regulations. In our days that was impossible because with one hand it was impossible to survive for the whole Grand Prix. So you have to really hold the steering wheel with two hands and uh in high speed corner with a down force it was very heavy. In the hair pins with the caster heavy as well. So you had no chance really to go around with one hand and uh trying to m to change uh some um parameters. Look, final sort of preparation point about Montreal is you're with Gerhard, right? You've mentioned his name. He's your teammate. Why did you two rub along so well together? What was it about, Gerhard ? You know, many times people uh think we had uh a lot of fun together. Uh it was true because uh out of the car we uh we we had a very good relationship, but we went well for five years because a lot of respect, a lot of space from him and from myself at the time very equal. So we had to fight hard to beat or to beat me or to beat him. And that uh keep uh in between him and myself , uh a very good uh respect and uh and uh relationship. How different was he to Alain Pros? Because when you moved to Ferrari, Alain was your teammate. Yeah, with Alain was absolutely uh different because Allen it's the only driver I know because at the time when you had a good position, you had the power to say to the team, uh I don't like him, I want him as a teammate and normally you you you choose uh a a weak teammate. Alain was the opposite. Alain didn't care about the teammate. He cares only of how to get his car fast. He had a special way to drive. So when I arrived in uh Furano, I remember very well this day, I had all the Ferrari available for me. That was my uh my first day presentation to the uh the Italian press. And I said to after the picture and the first laps in Fiorano, they said, okay, what do you want to do? And I said, I'd like to drive the car with two different setups: Nigel Mansell and Alain Prost. So I said, okay, no problem. They prepared the car. When I I went out with uh the the setup of Alain, I did uh five or ten laps because it's a short circuit. If you want to know, it's a fifty nine second of the lap. And I I came in and they said no this car is uh it's too easy. I mean uh I have a good traction, um I have too much under steel in this place. And they start to s to change the setup and I was going slower, slower, slower. Then I drive the uh Nigel Mansell setup. First corner, I was not able to turn the corner because he had a massive power Nigel in his arms and he was setting the car mechanically in a way you have no surprise because the steering wheel was not coming back on the other on the other direction on the bumps and stuff like that. But uh you had to be uh very uh physically prepared to drive a nigel car. So at the end, you know what I found out is Alain was very quiet and very open book because you had not the the capacity to drive the car as him was able. So I learned a lot with him. Who was the fastest teammate you ever had while we digressed? Yeah, I I I believe uh so far Alain , but Ger hard he had this uh craziness at the moment where he was able to do something uh surprised everybody uh in the team and myself as well. So Gerhard had a a very pure uh velocity. While we're talking drivers, bringing it back to ninety-five, coming into the Montreal race, there was a bit of speculation that Michael Schumacher was going to move to Ferrari for ninety-six. That was just starting to raise its head. Were you aware of that speculation? And what had Ferrari boss Jean Todd told you, if anything? Well, I I came to him and I asked him and he said no. But when I found out , that um make our relationship uh not so good. Tough time. I mean and and had Todd made it clear that both you and Gerhard were gonna be leaving at the end of the ye Well that was uh the wish of uh of Michael Schumacher because when he he accepted uh the proposition to join Ferrari, it was absolutely clear his position was choosing the teammate , choosing the uh the way to work on the on uh uh because we have the the spare card at the time so everything was on him and uh we had no chance to stay. It was not a question of uh if Michael is coming, do you stay or not? This episode is sponsored by Car Gurus. One thing I've learned from looking for cars over the years is that almost every listing can look brilliant in the photos. The tricky part is figuring out what's actually a good buy once you start digging into the details, you compare prices, mileage, features, ownership history, and before long you've got dozens of tabs open trying to work out which cars are genuinely worth your time. 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Join the thousands of heat pump owners feeling warm and fuzzy. I've lived here 20 years, I ain't moving, so I thought better future proof me own. We started a trend. The old street's applying for the government grant now. With the energy it saves, I don't know what's better off. The planet or my wallet. And that is your little bookworm. Says it's three times more efficient than our old boiler. Feel old warm and fuzzy inside with a seven and a half thousand pound government grant towards your heat pump at gov.uk slash clean energy eligibility criteria apply see website for details You were carrying the number twenty-seven on the car in ninety-five. Of course ever,yone associates that with Gilles Villeneuve. A lot of people, Jean, tell me that there are similarities between the way you drove and Gilles. Do you think it's a fair comparison? Well, I'm I'm it's really uh fantastic to hear that because he was my hero and uh he's so far right now the um number one uh driver for the Italian fans up to now, when there is uh in the Italian press they make a ranking of who was the best Ferrari driver is always number one. So I'm very pleased about that. But uh I cannot say yes because Gilles is Gilles and uh I try to to drive by instinct. At the time it was an easy time for the Formula One driver compared now. I feel much more complicated the F1 drivers from now to drive these cars because they need to follow a kind of uh route to use the car on a limit. In my days, you drive as you feel. They never ever a an engineer said to me, you break too late or you break uh you have to break in this place, you need to you operate this rotten in this way Let's talk about that because you hit the ground running, Montreal ninety-five, you're your second fastest in both of the practice sessions. And of course, back then there were no simulators or nothing like what we have today. How much did you change the car sort of during the course of a Grand Prix weekend and and specifically here? So here you you have to be very careful like in Monaco the evolution of the circuit is massive. So you don't have to overreact because straight after the few laps the car is uh not doing exactly what you want. You need to be only um concentrate of the radite, the radite, because we had a lot of fuel at the beginning of the race and uh in qualifying of course uh uh we we qualifying with an empty tank but you you had to make the car um very low but not too low to to have some uh issue in the fast corners. So that was the main uh concern, the ride rad ite . And then slowly you you start to understand what was the the the the the the the the point to work on. And so how much qualifying preparation would you put in during practice ? Not so much because we we waited the end of the session and we had uh three go with uh three set of uh new tires and it's at this time you you understand if the car was uh good or not. You line up fifth on the grid. Fair representation of where you and the car were or no. No no something went wrong. I uh I I think if I remember very well, I overdrive . And uh that was uh my problems many times, overshooting the corners, uh, be late on throttle. And um I had more uh let's say it was easier for me during the Grand Prix to follow the others to understand because in my mind I was breaking it to uh on the right point, but maybe I was already twenty meters uh too much, you know. And uh I I m I didn't make a very good qualifying but on on Sunday we had a warm-up. was It was wet. It wet. And then I said, okay, start from this point and uh make it uh quiet for the first lapse, and then we see on the topic of over driving, I think it's it's an interesting one. Why do drivers not just John Olacey, why do drivers overdrive? Because you hear a lot of people talk about it. Is it just over eager, too much passion, too you say too late on the brakes, but what causes it? Every machine has a limit. A good driver is a driver who understands the limit of the car. Because maybe the driver can uh forget or go over this limit and then it's what we call the over over shooting a corner, overdriving because you you don' t know what is uh the limit of your car, or you don't feel the limit of the car, and that's causes uh some problems. So we've discussed the the race morning warm-up. Your fastest, it's wet. It then stops raining, but there are still damp patches at the start of the Grand Prix. How confident were you going into the race? Well, in this condition, honestly, uh I don't want to uh to make it uh uh I was the best . I was the best in a damp condition, no question. And uh during this year in '95, I start with slix tires in New Burgering and middle of the race I had one minute lead to the second. Then in Suzuka I have a the penalty drive-thrue. I came in. I did my uh another lap. When I came in in this um uh condition it was wet, everybody and myself had uh to start with uh rain tires, but after a few laps when I had this uh penalty, I said to on a radio to the team, I'm coming back now, slick tires, and nobody replied, you know. Then in uh in lap, I mean in in this lap again I said slick slick slicks, nobody replied and maybe my engineer said, Okay, give him the slick tires. Came in, put the slicks, it was really wet. That was a race of my life. I came out of the pits after two corners and maybe you exaggerate, but I you know I was so upset. I push, push, push. Okay, I was in between five and six seconds faster than Michael. I pass everybody. I catch Michael, and when Michael uh, because we talk about together after the race, on the radio, we called the team and he said, Ali zi is in the same lab than me. And the team said, Yes And then you start to started to worry. And then uh make your box boom. Well, as you say, you were electric at the start of the race and you end up taking P2 from Damon Hill. He's going for it now. He's gonna try and go down the inside and force Damon Hill out and he's done it. John isi moves up into second place with a really forcible move . I think it was lap seventeen, a lovely move down the inside of the hair . Did you think you could catch Michael at that point? Michael Schumacher leading the race. Yeah. Uh no because uh I try when I pass uh uh uh demon then I had a free um uh free uh let's say uh air the the car was uh working very well and I push push push and it was six five seconds ahead I said uh he was not really moving you know and when I was driving like that the rear started to to move a bit and I said okay may,be I will not be able to. So I um I slow down a bit to to cool the uh the the car as much as possible and then I I retry again. But when I retry I I see something in the tribunes and then I said something happen. I pass the uh the finish line and my pit board was not there. I said okay because Michael was already in in the box and there are no time to change uh the the pit board position, you know. And then when I arrive to the hairpin , I see everybody uh uh standing up with uh the the flag, the Ferrari flag, then say okay, I understand. I pass theed pit board, the CP1, and then I had a shock, you know. I had a big shock. I love the fact that you actually found out that you were in the lead of the race from the fans before you didn't see. Because Montréal is probably the circuit uh where you drive inside a stadium because you have the the the grandstand so close to the circuit, not only at the airpin but in turn six in, turn uh seven and eight, I mean there is uh really you you see the people moving or or showing uh something to you. How fragile the car was. How nervous were you at that point when you'd taken the lead? You've still got ten or so laps to go. Were you incredibly nervous? Because you hadn't actually won a race since I think 89 in three thousand with Eddie Jordan, right? Yeah. As I I said before, it's it was not a question of uh I didn't win and uh I had to win or I I didn't put a timer in my head saying okay you have to win. It's how many times I was leading, maybe I don't know, uh, in my whole career, 10, 12 times. Well, leading not uh lap two, lap three, leading when the the car is over. When you are you are you finish your pit stop, you where you just have to bring back the car to the finish line and then boom, boom, boom, boom. So I was really um think ing about the car. What to do to make it happen. Not jumping on the curves. Uh we had a very high They were higher curbs back then, weren't they? We had a very high curves, not breaking too late, not uh uh going to the seventeen uh thousand revs, breaking a little bit with the left foot on a straight to slow down the uh the speed because But there were no dramas, right? No no problems. The the car was perfect. The car was perfect. Yeah. Can you remember how you felt crossing the line to win your first race? Yes. Because you know I make a countdown in my head and said, o kay, break uh for the chicane, the same chicane now. Go outside for and whatever is happening, look just where is the finish line? Because you don't see exactly the finish line you it's a like a corner you know so i i was i said okay even if now i have a big explosion with the uh the the speed i will cross the the finish like you know like in the f in the movie cars with uh the the town . So I remember that and then you know uh uh a big moment big moment up to the airpin where uh I I feel no fuel in the cardo but and as top it looks like uh you know for a world cup uh soccer one and there is a penalty and yeah there is all the the the fan uh sharing to you and look at journal out of the cockpit. Has he kept the engine running? No, he has not. He may conceivably be out of fuel, but I suspect he's just so overcome with emotion in front of this enthusiastic Canadian crowd with so many Ferrari flags and suddenly I hear the the noise of a car it was Michael just behind me so a Macy getting a lift from Michael Schumacher How was the ride back on the back of Michaels Benetton? I burned my butt because uh I was on the engine cover and uh you know I understand why now he's not allowed anymore because it's quite dangerous. The car is you don't know where to put your feet, you're uh but he was so good, so good. And Michael was happy. I mean it's the first time he he was not winning and uh he was happy as well. Did you have a good relationship with Michael? Yeah, very much. Yeah. We had a very good relationship again because of uh the respect uh in between him and myself. Nobody was jealous about anything. We were just uh enjoying uh a super time but probably because you know when i joined formula one my uh competitor was um Ayrton Senna, Nelson Piquet, uh Nigel Mansell, Gardberger, Alem Prost. I mean big names and big champions. So when Michael came in uh 93 , uh no uh 92 or 93, I don't remember what. Well the first race was 91, but then he won his his first race in ninety no no when michael came in f1 yeah ninety one ninety one so when you arrive in uh in spa he was with eddie jordan and eddie brought him uh on the table at the restaurant. He said, it's my new driver, tell him what to do, you know. And I saw the face of him, like uh I don't need to have your advice, you know. And they said, no, just be careful in uh with a fuel tank when it's uh full because it's a big difference with an empty tank. But the rest uh do what you want, you know. And um and then I I found out during my uh relationship with him, with his character, to have Eddie Jordan to tell him uh to bring him to a driver say tell him what to do, he was um funny . This episode is sponsored by Vanta . One of the biggest challenges about modern business is how quickly new risks can appear without anybody really noticing at first. A new AI tool gets introduced. A vendor switches on AI features. 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And that's all thanks to Shopify, the commerce platform powering millions of businesses around the world, from huge brands to people just getting started. Shopify gives businesses everything they need in one place, ready-to-go website templates, AI tools that help with product descriptions and images, plus built-in email and social media tools to help brands reach customers more easily. See less carts go abandoned and more sales go with Shopify and their Shop Pay button. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash beyond the grid. Go to shopify.com slash beyond the grid. That's shopify dot com slash beyond the grid You had a very close relationship with Eddie, didn't you? Because you raced for him in three thousand and you actually shared the podium here in ninety five with two Jordan drivers Rubens and and Eddie Eddie Irvine was that quite special actually to share it with Jordan drivers yeah Eddie uh was my man as a driver. I will never be a Formula One driver without him. Impossible. Because when I joined Eddie Jordan in Formula 3000 in 1989, that was my last chance to be a driver, not to think about the F1. And he uh brought me in his house. I live with Marie and the kids for one year . He did everything to me . He was um like a big brother. And when I went to F1 in 89 and I said to him, Thank you, Eddie, you helped me a lot. Is that was in July. But I will not drive the uh 3000 anymore with you because uh my goal was to go in F1. He said, What did you say? You will never ever see a F1 car if you don't finish my uh you know how he was uh talking championship and you win the championship and I said no ID please please please but anyway uh he convinced me or I have no uh possibility to do another way . So I did . Every weekend. 3000 F1 3000 F1. And then I went to Eddie and said, Eddie, I'm sorry to tell you that, but why you don't do a F1 team? You are more organized than the Tyrell team. And T Rel, honestly, they they have a story. They have two fantastic engineers, so they design a supercar . But the rest, the the the team, the co uh when you go inside of the workshop it's embarrassing sometimes you know and um you start to think about that and then you make his team john alacy inspired jordan . Absutolely. No, but that is is a true is a true uh story. Yeah. And was EJ pleased for you? Although you beat his drivers in Montreal, was he pleased that you'd won? Oh yes. Yeah, yeah. We were always in contact, you know. And he it was a a kind of place where you go to him, you know, like you go to see the priest in the ch in a church because you you don't know who can talk to have a right answer, I have to say and it was always uh the men. So take us up onto the podium . Just listen to the crowd. You'd think it was Italy and not Canada. That shows you how popular a lacey is, that shows you how popular a Ferrari win is Welcome Jean Lazy. There's a man who's gonna remember his 31st birthday for a very long time . Hell of a good birthday present that, but there'd been a track invasion. There were fans everywhere you had you had uh jant I think came up to get the constructors trophy as well just take us up there what was the emotion like for you well the emotion was uh it was so big uh I remember I had a massive headache when I came back to the hospitality. And then I was with my brother and I said, uh Jose, let's let's go back to Avignon. And everything changed because suddenly the national tv they asked me to stay for the uh the news on uh uh on on studio at eight o'clock so i had to change the flight but i was I wanted to go home, you know, and uh for a few days I had to uh go to places because of this wind. Where did you go? I go in Paris again. Uh when I uh land I went in Paris special uh uh show uh eight o'clock on the um Prime time prime prime time . Then uh I called uh Montezemolo and they said Avocato, I'm I'm really tired. I would like to uh to take time. He said, no, no. Come to Rome. I organize a sightseeing in the Vatican. Can I bring my my parents? Yes, yeah, you bring your parents. So I I went there in uh Rome and with my parents we went everywhere like if I was a Pope, you know. And that was um uh a great great moment. And and how did the team greet you when you were next in Maranello? Well they uh you know the mechanics in Ferrari they are special. They have a spirit like a driver. They are very emotional. They support you, but they uh they live what you live, and that is uh is fantastic. Did the wind change you as a racing driver? No, because um infortunately we came in uh in the uh chapter when michael started to uh to join Ferrari and that uh destroyed my uh my emotional moment . What did it do for your confidence though the win? No, no, no. My biggest if I have to to speak about the frustration, it's uh the last Grand Prix I did with Ferrari in Monza . I wanted to win uh for my fan and to say thank you for what I uh what I had for all these years and to um uh to have this um uh retire retirement at six laps to go leading the Grand Prix that, was uh my uh my worst uh memories. And although you know you went on and had many years uh afterwards in Formula One, were you always a Ferrari fan, even when you weren't racing for them. Yeah, yeah. But Ferrari uh uh still now uh he looks like uh it's my house. Let's bring it on to today. What do you make of of Ferrari in 2026? Do you think they can get back up to the the very top? I hope so, of course, you know. My level of uh fun is like when you follow a football team and whatever they do, you're fun, you know. So technically these cars are amazing. F1 is very different than what I used to have, but Ferrari stay uh the leading team in terms of uh uh emotion for the f ans even now with the new generation is the same so I I really hope they can get the world championship for this new generation and when you look at the twenty-two drivers on the grid now, which one reminds you of you ? I I don't know because you know um we had freedom and uh these uh drivers are uh for me um with the age they have the car the size of the car the the technology on board you need to be um uh an astronaut you know to drive that and my days was more uh a fight a more um freedom in terms of uh everything, you know, even if you had a a fight with another driver on the circuit, it's just it was a question in between him and you . Now uh it's in between you, I mean the driver and the steward . And the steward with FA, I mean it's complicated, you know, and they I I I love F1 but I I don't see myself being in a system like that. Back to the drivers though. I look at Charles Leclerc and I think he has the passion of Jean Alacy, he has the car control of Jean Alacy. Would you agree? Yeah, absolutely. Charles is typical Ferrari driver. He has a speed, he has uh respect for the team because sometimes you know Ferrari have the drivers where they don't care about uh Ferrari or for them it's a team. Ferrari is not a team. It's a special many times I say it's a religion. Final one then. Who is the fastest racing driver you ever raced ? It's easy to say Ayrton . Ayrton Senna was uh incredible. Uh Back to Montréal one day. He had the Ford engine and I had my Ferrari, beginning of the Grand Prix. We had 200 kilo of fuel. First lap, he passed me at the hair pin and we make the whole hairpin together. But then we had a long left and right corners. And for the first uh few laps it was not flat. But we had the wheels uh you know like that. So he was really his head was here. I was inside, he was outside. I said if I lift, he's dead. If he lifts, I'm dead. What do you think? But you have you know such a short time to think about that and say that he will not lift. I stay flat, he stay flat and we pass the the things like that the the car match the ground like hell and then he passed you know, but that if it was uh Nigel or or Gerhard, I was uh going away and let him go straight away. So he had total trust in each other, yeah. And you knew he was uh he was going for it, but on a good way. When I think of you and Ayrton, I mean that's a lovely story that you've told us about Montreal, but who can forget Phoenix? Yeah. Phoenix nineteen ninety. Went but that was a new John Elacy overtook him. Hello. Yeah in a terrible. But that was different because we had the Pirelli tires uh and uh on the uh on a low grip condition, these tires was amazing. And um the TRL, beginning of the Grand Prix, I had 25-30 kilo less fuel than the other teams. So I had a super fast car. At the start, I led, I I took the lead, and then I knew at one stage he was coming back, you know. Uh we had not the speed limit in uh in the pit . So he came, he changed the tires, middle of the race, and I finally I did the whole Grand Prix with the same tires. But he changed, it took him not long to catch me, and then I said, okay, no problem, uh, let's go for it . So I was just I was not blocking at all, but I tried for the first time to break later than what I think. You know, so then it was very late and he passed me. So oh my god, but he didn't make it . He went a bit wild. And then I have, you know, the door open. So uh I I I crossed uh his line and I took the lead again . That was uh funny because I had no no stress. The only things I was thinking was uh my friends in Avignon, they will see that and they will laugh, you know. But I I knew he he I had no chance to win the Grand Prix. If you no longer go for a g ap, you're no longer a racing driver, Jean. That was the great quote from Attin. Did you and him ever discuss that after the race? No, after the race he gets mad about me because I was on a grid with a normal t-shirt, you know, with a uh cotton. And uh my team uh manager uh he said, Do you have uh uh uh inifuger uh you know for the fire fireproof t-shirt? I said no. So what what do you think? So he ran, he went to the McLaren uh hospitality and they gave him uh a t-shirt and you know Ayrton was a bit mad about that. He had all these t shirts uh going to the church, uh benediction, you know, before the race and they give me this t-shirt and i and i uh i put and something was crutching he has his name inside Ayrton you know so after the race we arrived to the press conference and so wow but the car uh