Versatility and the Future of Motorsport

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Visit optimum dot com or stop by your local optimum store today. famamously Fast Fiber for twenty five dollars a month for five years, That's a no brainer Terms supply see optimum d. com for details. I'm certainly fast I'm committed. I certainly have some of my dad's DNA in me There was a lot of the determination of doing him proud, doing myself proud and doing my team proud because every time I was in a racing car, I was always depending on somebody making that happen These I never forgetten Bost Definitely A winner Repeated In the nineteen nineties, Tom Christensen seemed destined for Formula One. They were interested in me and they offered me half a season My mom and family always said, if you risk too much, don't do it. And I think I was a little bit not ruthless enough, I would say because many people would say I should have done it It never happened. Instead, he stood on other podiums, including the top step at the LaMont twenty four Hours, a record nine times I'm Tom Clarkson, and this F one beyond the grid is about what might have been for Tom Christiensen how he was on the same path as Michael Schumacher. The times he came close to an F one drive, the risky offer he wasn't willing to take, and why he was so successful in sports cars And Tom talks about the day he impressed a world champion in a modern F one car om It's great to have you on the show. How are you Very good and happy to be here, Tom Well, you're known as Mr. Lamont and rightly so after your nine victories there. But can we start by talking about Formula One? And my first question to you is how much would you like to be out there now doing battle with the likes of Verstappen, Alonso, Hamilton I of course you would love that in generally, my my dream An ambition as a very young was always going towards Formula one, no doubt but seeing how well it's going today Formula One has grown, all the drivers, all the teams, it's really fascinating seeing how many followers there is around the world And u yeah, I think u Stephan and his team are doing a a fabulous job. but yes, the racing, the core racing, being in the cars That's that's what you will always have as as a racing driver, but I'm a little bit over my birth certificate for that now too to be realistic. But TK, I want to take you back to the nineties, okay? because I remember back then headlines saying that you were the best driver not to be racing in Formula One. Do you remember those headlines? Yes, and I absolutely was very happy about that to be seen as best not to have started in a grand Prix in a way But my career was it was always parallel. likeike the whole ecosystem, I believe, is a little bit parallel. Formula One has grown tremendously over these years and so has sports cars as well and the whole racing community in many ways. But there was a lot of links to Formula one, there were several testing, but I always stayed around the sports car racing And that was my path Was it the case of right talent wrong time for you? Because you won the German Formula three Championship in ' ninety one Schumara won that championship the year before and look what happened to him? What happened to you as the German Formula three champion Were there lots of offers from F one teams? Not a lot of offers. When I woned the German F three, there was more or less going towards formula three thousand. But it was very inspirational about Schumag, Schumaga Hckenen I beat there a lab record at Hogenheim the following year when they had their great battle in Formula three. So I was very inspired by all that. But I went to Japan. I stayed several years in Japan driving all kinds of cars in Japan. and I owe a lot to Japan about The whole thing, education of life, I believe I really loved Japan, but it was also a step away from Formula one evenven though I was linked to Salland K kind of opportunities, but it's a different time. I didn't have any Any budget at all? I'm Kind of a T trying to a modest boy but I'm certainly from humble background born on a gas station in Hoborough or Denmark. My dad was a racing driver, I had one partarticularly in toururing cars or even rally cross, things like that As you always said, don't hed the others, but touching is fine And that was kind of always the commitment I went into racing with. My time in Japan was fascinating, but just touching on Schumaga, I believe we were a little bit parallel in the way of he really did well in Formula onene. And at the same time, I was part of winning teams in sports car racing. So in that sense, I have been veryery inspired of having more or less the same the same generation as there wasn't TK, there wasn't the amount of young driver accademies back then. I mean, Schumac actually was part of the first one with Mercedes, but Were F one teams back then reaching out for young people to take through to F one in the way that Mercedes work? No I love what the academies are doing now looking. I mean it's very hard if you're really a strong driver It's very hard to be overlooked by the academies today. Back then it was a little bit more let's say F one world was first time I went into the F one padog, it was on my CIK FIA super license for cartting That took me everywhere in Hogockenheim. and you know even in Hockenheim being very strict with a ticket to enter into the paddock. But there I was just having my goal cut license and I went in and I talked to several teams already in those years. but I would say Who was very good at motivating young drivers that were Eddie Jordan Eddie was always telling me he needs me and at one point it will happen, but of course There was always money involved, which I never had But it was also a motivating factor. So I'll say him and His team was probably the one reaching out the most. then late over the years, not speaking chronologically I was testing for Minadi In the winter in Barcelona a few times. What era are we talking now? Now we are talking must be ninety seven, I think, maybe ninety six, ninety seven, something like that. ninety eight, maybe. I remember interviewing Estban Tuera who was a Menardi driver in ninety eight. Yeah. I tested with Luca Bado at that time And but I had just signed with Honda in Super Toururing and BMW full among So it must have been ninety seven ninety eight. But Tom, if you'd already signed for BMW at LMo Why did Minardi put you in the F one car. Yeah, they were interested in me and they offered me half a season but half a season. And then I'm a little bit more, you know, I'm an educated bank clerk actually. So my mom and family always said if If you risk too much, don't do it. And I think I was a little bit not ruthless enough, I would say, because many people would say I should have done it and then have half a season then see what happens after half a year where I was I should sign I would bring I think at that time it was in the oriion of A L little bit below two million dollars. Where were you gonna to find two million dollars though Yeah I couldn't, but I mean, I kindly declined did super douring went to Leman with BMW had two fantastic years with them biggest near miss was actually in ' ninety nine with BMW where all the manufacturers were there the race of the century and we were we were leading by three and a half lats with Mila and Later When we a few hours to the end, we retired We were still leading seventeen minutes after that. So that was a hard blow. but good things happened later that year. It was testing for Williams. Were you part of the conversation when BMW were coming into F one with Williams in two thousand? I was never at any, let's say meeting in that sense. I knew from el Williams were building the chassis for the Leemont cast for BMW I speak very fondly at that time with Patrick Kat As John Russell. those guys were very much in favor of me and that call when Frank call me I know Hey, Christensen, I need you to test FW twenty you one Magnet cooler, can you make it free for us? It will be lovely Things like that just stays in memories. He was He was the one who was very close to have given me the chance back then But Williams were the team in the nineties and then it was they had these deep in the end of the nineties. Obviously this was now with a lid on they were with a meegac Chrome deal when I was testing. And then with BMW, they came in. Michelin came in. a lot of things were W good. Micheline was pushing me Michelin was going in with the groove tyres And I was doing a lot of testing there with them and their chassis So I would say In those years, if I had had better funding management Carly I would have been in, but there was a lot of drivers around Montoya, Rf Schumager John Karer Jensen Boden So it was u Obviously on theth side, also tough competition. But that was where I think it could have been in one of these meetings could have gone one way or the other. This episode is sponsored by Lisa Some of you might remember me saying that I was finally planning to replace the mattress we'd had For more years than I care to count. Well, I'm pleased to say that the day has arrived. We've swapped it out for a superior hybrid from Lisa, and after sleeping on it for a few weeks now, I can safely say I made the right choice. 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Just slip on in your gym bag, backpack or even in your pocket, and one stick mixed in sixteen ounces of water can help keep you hydrated for up to four hours I'm working my way through a box of the white peach flavor at the moment, but there are loads of sugar free options to choose from like rainbow shherbd and strawberry watermelon, so why not mix it up a little bit Get moving with superior hydration from liquid IV Poor, live more Go to liquidiv d. com and get twenty percent off your first purchase with the code grid at checkout. That's twenty percent off your first purchase with the code grid at liquidivV dot comot Can you tell us about that Williams test at Man Cool? What was the car like to drive? How did you get on in the groove tyres I mean, Sanadi had come over from America and struggled with the groove tyres. How did you find him? The first test there was actually when Sanadi, I think they had decided that he should not continue the great man And then I was testing then in Magnic a bit between The races in the east, I think before the Japanese grand Prix I had it okay with the grooved tyres, but it was nobody was fan of them So obviously with Michelin, what we were trying to do was particularly of nursing out that sensation of One or two very good laps And then they would normally grain and you will drop off and lose lap time before you would lend it will clean up and you will come back That was more or less what it was all about, particularly at the front, obviously. So they had the disadvantages, but there was clearly a mission for Michelin and for me testing actually it was overseen by Pascal Vaslon in those days We got on pretty well. and I think at the end of the day, Michelin did a great job when they were in informa one with ye, what do you say difficult regulation chains to kind of slow down the cars a little bit. Tell us about the mitchelin testing that you did. What chassis were they? What car were you driving I was driving at White Williams chassis. so obviously that was the again, the FW twenty one. There was a Bibndum on it and we were testing on on circuits free testing, where there was only marshals and an ambulance and the nurse as a team kind of secret The car was brilliant. They were what is it? five hundred and sixty kilos. Yeah. B ten Yeah There were just every brake, launch brake, particularly, they would change the engine. They used the engines. this is in year two thousand They used engines from the team was already Having at the Grand Prix, which had some milees left And I can believe and tell you They went below a milees of four hundred kilometers So you can see sometimes they were going down to about three hundred and fifty kilometers then they would go for a renovation. So obviously they had an engine wheel one hundred and eighty kilometers left they will put it in and I would go they would say, all right, you will go for a long run with these three sets And we Michelin wanted to do three times twenty labs And Indian people was in Can we cut that to fifteen labs each? and then They would make a agreement of maybe eighteen laps and of course On the third stand It could happen. It was u Free times, free spirit Engineers were pushing limits beyond and with these cars being so agile. so light, it was a fantastic time and I've just been You know, I mean, just thinking about it, that was a really, really good time to have entered Formula onene and I would love to have to have done it because it became a bit more You know, I was in sports car racing, the top speeds were the same, the breaking points, things like that in the G forces were pretty similar to Le Mang because Le Mang was free spirit as well but in the slower corners where you F one car there with with that light body massk was was really inspiring to drive. What a great opportunity for a young driver like you at the time though to be doing all that testing for Mit. How much did the tyres evolve in the time that you were testing That was all about the groove tyres. So they evolved definitely. There was also free spirit, a little bit about the, let's say the roubber which was being kind of used because remember, it was a competition. I mean what was All about was there was a Michelin team and there was the Bridgestone teams. and Goodye had just left. So the whole environment was about who would match up to have the right time manufacture at times. And what was good was Ferrari, as you remember, very exclusive with Mercedes at times with Bridgestone. So They had to prove their way in and that was particularly done with Williams, with Jago as well, where I also tested because what happened that year When I was testing with michelin was I had just won some races with BMW, but I has switched to Audi. I have done the switch to Audi, which of course, in German terms would onene stage, I think Gad Bager, Marta Tyson the great guys, they thought all right. I think I think we need to let Tom go because he has gone to the other side. D did you know by going to Audi that you were letting that opportunity go Um yeah, I probably did because that that should have happened that winter So in that sense, I thought I would look for An opportunity I remember. I mean, Gard will tell me now, a little bit laughing because back then he said Are you crazy? You're going Audi. We were driving in circles around Audi I said, I had a good feeling. And I was honest with him, I said, I went to Audi and I met Dr Uurrich. He showed me the humble facility back then up N Eengelstadt U and and he showed me a drawing of the car. and It was very inspiring. so I signed and then that The following year we in Sbring, BMW was still there, but kind of just for the American Long serers and we were driving in circles around BMW Kate, we're going to get onto the sports car era in a moment. There's one other thing I wanted to ask you about was a couple of years ago Zach Brown put you in The TPC McLaren at the Red Ball ring, july twenty fourth, I think, wasn't it? No, september third. It was September was it? It day. But I think in July was I was in SIM at doing the. Can you just tell us about the whole process and how How Formula one had changed between the nineties and twenty twenty four Py Brown hereere M is on the spot actuallyually during a live interview or shortly after It was a little bit like Tom. when were you last in a of one cockpit? And I I started to toally look and count back and I said of, o, that's h many years ago and said we need to change that And off he went. And then then sometimes later that winter because this was in Abu Dhabi, then I think in January, there was an email with me Paul James and a few other people from McLaren on it and then he set it up and it made it happen. I chose later in the year. I think there was kind of options around I believe Silverstone and Red Bull Ring. So he already made sure, which is said to be some tough circuits because I need to test it. in the toughest possible way. And then I think Paul James said, Okaykay, that's going to be Red Bullring especially sector two and sector three And then it was planned. I went to walking in July, doing the seat fitting, doing some simM work with with a team Can we break that down? Is the seat position in a Formula One car different to a sports car Not a lot, not a lot. I think actually you said a little bit more upride in the Formula onene car today than you did back in the early nuties But you are laying down a little bit more in a Formula onene car Of course, it's certainly more cramped And actually it's a bit more perfected around you because a prototype it is a Two seeds are in a way So you you were never depending on its right or left hand drive, you normally there's always one corner side where you are a little bit less supported where in a forformal car, everything is a build around justust you And what about the S Did you use Sims back in the day Not really. we did towards the end of my career, we started to have a to do a little bit of SIM and where we actually used McLaren initially as a partner So we were there a few times and I think A few of the drivers magn, including where we had we asked where was the closest toilet because of the kind of the the drive sickness, the se, what do you call it, the What do it call that motions. Motionsess Yeah, so we asked about them where the toilet was because motion sickness was suddenly also a in play, but we didn't use a lot of simulators. How did you find the McLaren one I think McLaren was early on, they were probably a little bit ahead in those in the game back then. But when I came in July now for testing this car, you could already feel in the S I would say what is kind of the which has already been worked on, that's the inertia of a car. So the weight of a Formula one car for me is the's the main thing, which has hopefully will come down in future as well. twenty twenty six, we are already thirty kilos lighter than the year. So the trend has changed and I think we should all applaud that and for certainly for the driving You get a lot better feel out of a car kind of the lighter it is, but How well prepared were you for the real driving at the Red Bull Ring because of the simulator? I trained a little bit up to it. Then I came in the simulator and I think I was in it three times, the first time I think Paul James was a little bit worried because I believe one of these crash I had, I had, I think I went off two or three times in the first run in the morning And one of them, I think would have totaled the McLaren TBC car Then I had another one, which was not what happened again what happened? I think one was I got on the curb. Another one I just got on the throttle earlier and another one I was breaking too late. I think these were were kind of the things. Is that because you were struggling with the feel of the Sim Or just were you just exploring the limits? Yeah, probably that. And then just when you I have not been in a I have not been a professional racing driver in ten years So you know, I've gone I love going to goodoodwood. I love going to these things more historic racing. Once in a while, Audi puts me in a in a good car or like for demo or something like that But when you're out, you are not in sync with the speed of a racing driver. But I was committed. And I think that's what they could see. So the team helped me. So in the second run, it was pretty okay. Then we had launch Then I checked the seat again as they had been as that was the first thing. I did jump in the car and then later in the afternoon I forgot which seed, I think I used one of I think I used Lando seed But hang on. you could could fit You and Lando can fit in the sameold James. But it did. And I just needed the padals a little bit a little bit changed. and then I didn't need the support they had on the sides because obviously I am a I am larger now than that much point is that you in your fifties of sitting in the same seat as Lando Norris in his Yeah. And I was also I said the same. I said, I can't be in his seat And And then trust me, they said, he's larger than you think in some ways. So take us to the Red Bll ring now the whole process of pulling out of the pit lane for the first time. How did it feel You know, don't be modest. How were the lap times? I mean, modest. I mean, the thing was the third time after the lunch I was in the S And I was just nine tenths of the sim drivers who are probably faster than the racing drivers at M Lown. And they they were quite impressed, but I remember blast Paul James when we went out. I mean, he said, Tom, we really it's fantastic. We have you. you should really enjoy it And enjoyed, it's a good opportunity for you as well So kind of telling me Calm down, man You in you' in proper equipment here. so So yes, he probably felt I was a little bit too committed. So when we later went, this was end of July. So in the beginning of September we went to ing I had the opportunity of seeing An another driver having his first test spending most of the day, which was kind of the proper test, obviously. A sudden driver. wasn't that wasn't that Gabrielle Bortletto You mentioned it. Yeah,, because he was part of the McLaren Young Driver prorogram back then. Yeah. He had his first test and he was there doing all morning doing the most part of the afternoon and then around three PM they swapped and And I got in in the car and had my two I think it was Five laps and then a break and then six laps And that's what I had on one set of soft tyres. And u It was it was absolutely Brilliant. and I I will always remember Sag asking me so late It's kind of made a full circle It was good. It's fast What surprised you about the car to be in sync with the breraaking. And there I just trusted completely the sim. So I would say that's when I was bravest, partarticularly down to what you call turn four As it's downhill And basically one time you log off, you are off in the gravel That was kind of the toughest in that sense Physically, it was clearly turn nine over the crest right hander I mean D differenterent labs, you will see Landu and Oska doing it in six gear on seven gear, even in seventh gar at times That's fast and that's barely littleittle lift You're flirting with six year And you know, when when you When you have not been in a racing car for ten years. It felt like my flesh. My whole body flesh was smashed up against the monologue. on the left hand side And it was simply just my bones, teeth sticking together and the commitment trying to match that going through that corner. and without putting a foot wrong on top of that, thinking about Paul James and Zach Brown, not doing any damage, but that was where there was the biggest offset through that corner But in generally, I mean, I was within a the fastest laps too toowwards the end when the tres were out was around a couple of seconds. so it was I think it was really good. I mean, what was very nice was This was september third When was Austin, I was in Austin sitting in with the BirePlay team because they had done a nice feature around that which is is still running on Boplay on the test. We were sitting in a barbecue house And having these famamous rips or staks in Austin And suddenly, as I'm grabbing some fries, I get a knock from the bag and there's a few people and one standing with a with a hat or let's say what are you calling wen a woolly hat? A wooy hat, something like that. In Austin. It's notormally'ite hot. Yeah, it's quite hot. And and then he goes, Ay You want my seat or well done on the test That was Lando. He had his he was there with his engineer and maybe the chief mechanic and his trainer They were there just having a taste as well But that was nice. I actually spoke to the team about it, TK. They were very impressed. The final question about driving that McLaren in twenty four is tell us about downforce, all right? Because those cars under the last regulation set, there were so much ground effect being produced. When you're going through turn nine, the quick corner at the reed Bll ring How much of it is feel that you're getting through your bum, through the pedals, through your hands. And how much of it is just believing in the data that the car will do it slightly blind trust, if you like There's no doubt that its blind trrousted was needed, particularly its ground effect cars not sheer commitment because then you could overdrive it. And then if you push too much and you get, you know any turbulence, any bouncing in the car could really generate the offset suddenly and these snap what we have seen which looks from the outsides. kindind of what are you doing these cars were very critical. And I can see already now shorter wheelbase, narrower track, they are looking that are nimble and with her weight lower. The more you go on that, there will be a much more benefit. for the feel of of the drivers. But I have to say that McLaren, Brakes They were spot on the gearbox in sync with the gears And down changing. Everything in that sense was perfect. And you are guided out, you know just with engineer in terms of of warming the tres Basically for me, it was I just had to get on with it. I knew Every lap was running into being the final So I just went on with it DarS was was also tough that's a veryy complex in terms of everything on the steering wheel and that A lot of things which you have to optimize with a modern forormula one car bit like in L Mank, but there you have more or less more straight or even in the sports car races to do it. So I would say Modern F one car, very complex everythingvery really sensational in the way of feel the feedback from the car. It was an awesome awesome experience. Just have to make them lighter, please This episode is sponsored by Shopify. 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But where you found All of your success was in sports cars. Let's talk about that now What made you so good? What made you so effective as a sports car driver I I don't know. I certainly have some of my My dad's DNA in me. he was There was a lot of the determination of persistence of of doing him proud, doing myself proud and doing my team proud because every time I was in a racing car, I was always depending on somebody making that happen These I never forget. And these are certainly also felt I learned Also at the times in Japan But it was a certain B from Shefa who actually took me out of bank clerk situation, which I've just been educated as long as I had a thousand days where I was just jumping From a small seat on time go card, sometimes a forormula two thousand, then noble Lotus race, then an old Formula three race, something like that B Schaffer called me in Fbruary nineteen ninety one Join, sign Volkswagen F three driver And off I went. I won my first race in Solda won the won the championship And since then I was a professional racing driver until I called it off without it now more than ten years ago. Yeah, But specifically to talk about sports cars yourour record at LaMont, but not only at LamMont at Seabbring, all of the great sports car races 've been there, done it Why? I don't believe it's coincidence, you must have been doing something special in the car. Um I'm certainly fast. I u'm I'm committed. I am looking at the efficiency in it. I'm not necessarily want to win next corner I'm always thinking about more stint time than lap times But still, it comes from being determined, I think. I mean I think I joined with Stephanie Jhansson, Michkel Alboretto. the way they embraced me partarticularly in Miilas, he knew the car better. you know, there was no data at all. I mean, there was no simIM or anything. I come to Lemang, I don't know the circuit at all So Mikel and me we go on a scooter and we talk a little bit about it. At the end of the day, in the night, I we're starting to to see Dawn approaching. And and they asked me for an extra stand and I do a lab record at that time. And then since then it was obviously a very Camaraderie withith the way I was dealt in with the team, will those two drivers that that was for sure the fundament And the way they were talking about ninety seven, aren't you when you were parachuted in to that team at the last minute because Davy Jones couldn't make the race at the last minute and Well, you delivered and then suddenly Your reputation is sort of stood you well for the next few years, right? Yeah. It's very much the way you're embraced by the team. You know, the German mechanics, speaking in dialects It was only twelve mechanics. It was a one car team Weinehold used but Mikella and Stefan were very good in embracing me there for my debut. They gave me confidence instead of, you know, you could always have a young driver coming in, supporting them. They have we have never met before And all this happens literally during the week up to a month. And I think all that always took with me further on because I have been I've had sixteen different teammates over eighteen starts at LeMont And I think what we have had together was important when the teammates became young towards the end of my career. it was always I was always thinking in a way of how They embraced me. That's how you have because you are I'm not saying You always have to look out and be comfortable everyone. There should be no weak link and if there's a weak link, that should be the focus and weak link means sometimes if you're not confident. It could be myself at times with certain situations. mean You know some of my teammates, I can mention them very fast if you want But eighteen starts, fourteen times we arrive to the finish And we won the Podium and free time.. And yeah, nine wins of those. So we had a few retirements which hurt. The ninety nine with BMW, the biggest lead I've ever had. two thousand seven with Dindor and Alan where we we lost a wheel going down to Indianapolis at high speed who a dind was in the car that time It was four or five laps after a pizzop and there we were already three laps ahead So we lost that one too. So that's that's sixteen Then there was one race where I didn't get in the car And then there was when Alan, you remember when the Ferrari very early on in the race, he was leading But the cars were so difficult. you had no Visibility out of the car, very tough There was a BMW in ' ninety eight. the first time there, we had a very low drag car But we were retired because the wheel bearings were were too dangerous and they pulled the car out and I was driving with Steve Sober He was staying in the car six laps after they called him to retire the car in sheer commitment because we were running between thirird and fifth at the time, but we were pulled out. So that was eighteen starts. The rest was wser podiums I'm just sort of counting all the near misses. It could so easily have been eleven wins at Lam More, even twelve, right? Yeah, But it's L Mong is very much a team effort and you asked about a team effort in the way of beinging with a team, it's all about wanting to help I wanting to feel part of the team becausecause for insurance racing, that's something, I think is what I try to to help or to make sure there is a good atmosphere around your car. So it's mechanics, it's engineers and certainly all the drivers I've had. I mean Mikaela, Stephanie Johansson Um there was Steve Sober, Hansj Jo Kim Stuke JJ Lo, Jog Muller U Bila, Imano Pi Pirro. Frank Beer. is's a kind of who's who of this list If one the fastest teammate you ever had at LamMont. Of course light is good. So I mean they always said the perfect combination were Cpeello, Magnesia, myself But if you look at it, we didn't win so many as we actually did will Ba Pio myself. We won three on the thot. But why was Dindo, Allen, and you the perfect combination on high hurlies Different personalities, different way of being we were very tightly knit. We were still good mates. We had a great way of racing and very Very committed together. And I think we were all three very fast and very consistent How much are you on the limit in a race. L Lem. Are you driving it like a single seater in a grand Prix You are full on the limit. But you have in the back of your head the importance of it's now. It's not like, you know Oshoot going going off or whatever. you can't allow that. So you have that in your mind. So the limit is there And then it's even more tough because you have the importance of of that one race. You know, there's only one race a year It takes a whole year to get to. So some of these setbacks, some of the failures you had at L Mank tell you. they really sit you deep And that you feel when you're going for Lemont. You feel the history heritage when you're there, no doubt. When does the preparation for LMont start? For the manufacturer, it starts from the first scratch because They want the car to be successful at Le Man. and then they optimize for all the other circuits, even for the World Eurance Championship. And I think for the whole thing That's how it goes. It always, whenever you go testing, it's a little bit in terms of, all right We have a fast car now. Can it last? We need the reliability on these parts We need to make sure that these tyres yeah, okay here, they go off a little bit fast but at little among, we can run normally tyres a little bit softer as you cool down on the O the Hinadeia, down to Indianapolis, the longer straightits, things like that So it always plays, a second thought always goes around Limank But we are always on the limit There' the traffic situation in sports cars which you never should underestimate because you need sometimes It's kind of good to know who's in the cars you' approaching because you're passing seven to fourourteen cars every lap and someone in the straits comes quite easy. but sometimes there's two or three cars there in a fight themselves There you have some timees to say, Oh careful here. And how much more complicated does everything you've just described Get at night Ying traffic Visibility. Yeah. They know you' approaching at night because you're constantly having lights on the cars, but at night they will they will know they will notice you. So in that sense, they just don't know where they actually easier at night for those reasons. In some Yeah, I would say so. It's easier to feel the trust that they will definitely know you are coming U no doubt about that. And what about? Just the process of driving the car at night. That's a tougher no doubt. There's more floodlight now than there worst back in the day. The lightning on the cars has evolved like everything invol in racing.'s good thing about it and even helped my eyesight towards my career because at the same time, the light got better outside. the dim light on the cockpit in terms of the steering wheel, complexity of all that, you had to optimize. you always had to change the view of of the apex, of the traffic and sometimes to what you had to do on the steering wheel. And that became a little more and more. That was one of the reasons why I was Oh, now it gets a little bit, you know, when you have a few seconds, you feel like you have to adjust So I would say Racing drivers plus fifty at night, that's not a good idea to you sleep During that twenty four hours as a driver In the first years barely but just the adrenaline Adrenaline you're feeling there. you have the radio, you want to hear everything I did I did eighteen starts. I would say Fifteen of them I got some sleeps some more than others. But I would saying average three, three and a half hours. It may be for a test of endurance, isn't it? for everybody in the team actually. Yeah, But you know, adrenaline is so lovely. So when you have it, you can do it and in the week after you are probably a little bit more tired, especially if you come away after after a bad one Let's talk about Audi now. What was your reaction when you heard they were going to do Formula one I knew it at that time because it has been going on a little bit in the background and of course my My role with FIA at that time and I know the the meetings that was going on Sean Tught Th those years, there was It was coming and it was looking very good and um The time sustainable was very important. That was a key word for Audi to Audi come in And I think it was right time. There has been so many times when I was at Audi that there was times when we were linked towards Formula One or particularly the Volkswagen group So I thought now with this new regulation, the timing is right and For sure it's very special for me to to see and to feel. really I'm really happy for the progress they have already already done with the impact they have done. And how would you describe the audi way The audi way of going racing and do you think the way they One in sports cars is applicable in Formula One or do you have to do things slightly differently in Formula One There's no doubt you have to do things differently in Formula onene It's already been done. I mean you I mean, the way they have obviously they have rununning it' completely independent from AudDAG in terms of the merger uh with with Sao in in Hinvill And then making the engine, the engine facility is in Nibberurg That's u that's buillt on the the greatreat Audit facility like we ended up with at that time so well I think they're done I've done things right and I'm to see them progress. and the way the impact they have done already, I think is is very extraordinary. T good drivers building on the teams and now One of my my sport c team teammates is is running it together with obviously Matia Binoto put him in place there. So it's There's a lot of emotion. about seeing how well they are going forward Alan McNish approached you about a job at the team as well. I don't think the old drivers are coming. I don't think he has time. and he's doing a good job. Remember, he was team principal of the forormmeraE team After since he He put his helmet off and retired from racing I had a feeling. He says he never himself had the feeling that he will go that way, but always had the feeling. He's person a great motivator he he knows the craft, he knows the business and I think He's the right man of having U let's say the jeans of how we went racing in the sports cars back then and he knows the DTM ses as well, all the Audi motorsport program under Dr. Dleg at that time And then you have Stefan Dreyer sitting headad of the engines in Nuburg And he was he's a big racer with a big heart going forward there as well. A Audi ruthless in the way they go about their racing in you know, the stated aim is to be challenging for the worldorld Championship by twenty thirty Do you have every confidence that they will they will reach that target Yeah, yes, I have, but I have the definitely you need to be more open about that in Formula one In sports car racation, you probably not will have to be approached in the media after every session. So in that sense, it's a lot more media orientated sport formula onene. Every session you are going to be Dt will with questions going in that direction But in short, As long as they improve, every time they improve It's going for the right target. I remain confident that it's the right people and they have the opportunity. TK, I have so enjoyed this chat Can we end it just by talking about F one twenty twenty six Can we talk about Kimy Antonlli Yes. Age nineteen Is he ready to win the worldorld Championship If you're never ready to win the worldor Championship and in that sense, you're never ready But you are doing it and he is ready doing it because he's doing so well. Look how he has improved since last year He also is some drivers really likes these cars better. And this year he's doing incredibly well Remember how he started the European season after I actually have kind of breaking he broke the lock, I would say What he say? the key. He found the in Miami, twenty twenty five when he was on Ple. And then he had that miserable European season last year. Th points from what nine races or something. Yeah. This is not going to happen this time The way he has approached on his racing this year, he's committed. he is confident He's he's just lovely to watch. And I hope that's going continue. And at the same time also the perception in terms of George is really on the top of his game as well. So It's an interesting internal battle there as well. But Kim me is just raised to that potential as what Tutor Wolf and his team. have seen a little bit earlier than others and they are benefiting from that now. and George has to Constantly deliver, not being unlucky, as he has been a few times And then we will see when the other teams are slipping in Ferrari looks hot at the moment in Monaco. McLaren will come back. They're the constructors and World Champion with Landon Noris. they also want to come back and they are They're nearly there as well. And when do we see Max on the top step again? When Surely not too long. Actually on the topic of Max, you're someone who's driven so many different cars in your career