McLaren Performance and Future Racing

Five live, Formula onene On a weekend where he needed a response, George Russell delivered exactly that from Pll to the race victory at the Austrian Grand Prix ahead of Max Verstappen and the other Mercedes of Kimmy Antonlli who were on the verge of making it a three way fight for victory, but ultimately came undone. a fascinating race unfolding at Spielberg. So to dissect it all here on the Cckch of Flag podcast with myself Harry Benam, I brought in the BBC' F one correspondent Benson and multiple former Lagady race winner Sam Byird. And Sam, what a race and a crucial day for George. Crucial day for George indeed. He needed Kimy Antonelli today to bring back some points to get it to forty points, which is what it is now was a big thing for him. and now he heads into Stilverstone, hopefully with a little bit more confidence He certainly does, but wasas it It was a bit of a surprise, Andrew do you think this weekend? Pul was a bit of a surprise for all of us and for George But he did seem to have the pace in hand during the race. Was he managing because Max and Kimmy were chasing him down hard? It was just a really, really close race that was decided by track position and strategy basically. The cars, I think were basically equal in pace, the top three. And I think it was decided in terms of the battle between Russell and Verstappen by the second stop. They were one point three seconds apart with Russell leading Verstappen the Stappen pits first at that point, he probably gets the lead And then Russell will have to offset and come back at the Stappen. In fact what happened was Russell and Mercedes jumped first, that retained track position, that meant Verstappen had to offset. He just didn't have enough time quite to catch up with Russell. It was one just over about one and a half seconds. Meanwhile, Antonlli probablyro ruined his chances of winning in the first couple of laps. he got a bit overexcited, kept missing all the corners, dropped back to fifth place at one point. and then he had to recover from there, of course. and he went and went on another further offset strategy. He was closing on both of them at the end, but I think the pace difference that you were seeing wasn't him actually being faster than Russell and this happen It was just he had better ties at that point. So a really finely poised race, really tense, a kind of connoisse grand Prix if you like. But for Russell, it was a really much needed win, remarkably his first since the first grand Prix this season in Australia I mean, George won the race, but actually Kimmy could have won This afternoon's race virtual safety car of the Williams of Carlos Science If he'd waited to pit by one lap He would have come out in front and probably gone on to win the Grand Prix It didn't did it? No, I no. No, wouldould have should have could? No wouldould have should have could have, but it's just quite interesting, isn't it? that decision to pit on that lap effectively cost him the grand Prix I mean, Russell would have been absolutely gutted by that because that would have been the second race that he'd lost out to Antonlli because of a safety car after Japan, of course, which was part of that run of lookuck through the early part of the season that Russell was really bemaning until he started to struggle for pace around the time of sort of Monaco and Miami. and But so he was it would have been good luck. It's not like Antonlli deserved to win and they messed up. That would have just been luck that he got that no one else got. it was what we saw was a race that was fair and straight between the three of them And Russell came out on top. basically because of the pollap on Saturday. He had his he had his head together when that yellow flag incident happened at turn nine when Verstappen crashed actually probably decided the race. Verstpp the three, you know, there the three contenders for victory. We're all involved in our incident. thisstappen crashed Vstappen Russell correctly noticed it was a single yellow flag, Antonneelli didn't So Russell ends upon Ple and then his two contenders for victory start fourth and fifth. It's always hard to come back from that far back in a Grand Prix. Yeah, it is. but I think from the driver's perspective, Sam Mentally for George, how much will this do for him, especially next week going to Silverston for his home race. Yeah, it's big. It's very, very big for him. He's had, you know, for since Melbourne, he's been pretty much comprehensively beaten by Kimmy Antinelli, week in, week out. and Kimmy's looked in such great form. over the last two months, I would say George needed a big weekend and this was a big weekend for him Going into Q three, we thought that Kimmy had pole position wrapped up and we had no real signs of any massive pace r George Russell, anyway all of a sudden, at the end of Q three he's pulled out the lap of all laps I've got it on p position and then just really managed the race very, very well. notothing special, just making sure that he got the twenty five points. It doesn't matter whether you finish one second in front of the Cckered flag. or thirty seconds in front, it still makes twenty five points at the end of the day. Well Russell himself didn't even know where that poullap came from. Did he admitted it himself? He he started it thinking, well, I'm not actually his first run in Q three was the first really competitive lap he'd done against Antonlli all weekend And he sent it into turn one and it all clicked and the lap was brilliant. and just I mean, he had to back off at turn nine. He still put it on p by two and a half th or whatever it was So very impressive all round, just a really From that point on it was just a really well managed weekend overall. It was a weekend that smacked of maturity and experience. someomeone with his head in the right place, which Russell's head hasn't been really in the right place for a couple of aces this year. And I think put all that together, it's going to have done him a lot of good going into Silverstone which is a track that he really loves. He doesn't like point and squirt tracks. That's why he struggles at Miami. Silverston is the absolute polar opposite of point and squirt. It's all flowing fast corners. So I think Russell really fanies his chances there. Of course, Antonelli will as well. as it's going to be really interesting to see the fight between them I think What's good as well, for George Russell. He'll now go back to and be able to go through things with his engineer. and pinpoint exactly why That lap was so good. What did he do tie warmup wise that was different to any other time? What did he do driving wise that was different to any other time? And then he can take that forwards for the remainder of the season. Let's hear from your race winner, George Russell. Congratulations, George. Just how good is it to be back on top spot after that really difficult run you've had of late It was great was grazed been a while since I sipped the champagne and had that sweetness You know, I'm proud of The resilience I've sort of had and the people around me who have helped helpld me through those low moments because it was tough. You know When you feel like everything's going against you, performance isn't as good as you'd want Coming back in Barcelona, having a great performance there, a bit unfortunate race and then again here, I just feel sort of feel myself again. but it doesn't mean that I completely understand this car and these ties, Bff I know I've it got to hit me. And it really felt like you had to work hard for that. you know Redbull looked quick. your team make was quick as well. and you couldn really put a foot wrong today. No, it was challenging. Yer Sapam was really really impressive. He forced me to box early. But the team called it perfectly. You know, when I saw twenty eight laps to go on the last stint, I was pretty worried So I came out and had really strong pace and I got to be honest for the last five laps I I justort brought it home and he caught me quite a lot But I had to say on it So Russell then bagging twenty five much needed points. that sees him move up to second in the drivers's championship, still forty points ad drrift of Kimmy Anonelli. Sh we do Kimmy now? should we comeome to Max? What do you want to do? Do we do? your host' just sudly roeo. now I just suddly think, let's Max now, we've spoke a bit about Kimmy because with for Max, if you'd have said Andrew, S second place mate at the start of the weekend given their struggles on a Friday, B your hand off for that For me, in many ways, the Verstappen second place and the fact that he's contending for victory is the story of the weekend because Red Bull have not been in that position or anything like it all year. They brought some big upgrades to this race, their home race, of course and aerodynamic upgrades and it seems to have made a big difference to the car. He was competitive through qualifying. there was some kind of aerodynamic issue at the rear of the car that caused the crash at turn nine. othertherwise you probably would have started third if he started third He would have been battling with Russell from the very beginning instead of having to catch him, having lost out in the first few laps potentially anyway So it's a really encouraging weekend for Red Bull and Verstappen now We have to keep things under control a little bit. It's only one race. It's only a particular kind of circuit and it's a circuit where Rebel and Verstappen particularly have been strong For a number of years, he's the most winning driver around the Red Bll ring, fittingly, of course And so it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to translate into the next few races But it's for them, it's a really encouraging sign on a bunch of different levels. If they can keep it going, obviously it just means competitiveness from now, which is what Red Bull and Verstappen expect of themselves. More than that, it's about the future of the team If the team can show that they're competitive or are making progress towards competitiveness, then the chances of Verstappen leaving at the end of the year recede into the distance. If they're where they were up until this race, then those chances are very real So' we couldn't overstate how important this is for Red Bull and Verstappen. and a good sort of recognition Sam as well of the upgrades that Red Bull brought this weekend, seemingly working for Sunday's race. I'm sure they'll want a few more before they get a full read on them. But you know if there's something to be had from a car, it's going to be Max Verstappen that gets the most out of it I know and just kind of said let let's not get ahead of ourselves here, but this is a good point of the year to suddenly see Verstappen and reed Bull turn things around and start to maybe not challenge for the championship, but certainly interfere with those who are And I'll echo what Andrew says. Let's not get t of ourselves. It is too early This is a very particular kind of circuit. Now we're going into Silverstone super high speed fast flowing corners. We don't know whether those upgrades will work just as well at Silverstone at spa and moving into the second half of the year I would to say something I. Well, I was just thinking that actually obviously the second part of the lap in Austria from turn six onwards is kind of silverstone like Fastowing corners. So it's encouraging, but they weren't that quick in the final sector Right Mercedes were brilliant there. Red Bull. That's where they actually hemorrhed lap time in comparison to Mercedes in qualifying Well there you go. that was Maxer Stappenenss race a second in the end. onlyn just, what was it three tenths of a second at the flag in front of Kimmy Aonlli was really hustling him right at the end. We've spoken a bit already about Messy St and the virtual safety cars. The point that Andrew said about this weekend has done for George Russell. It was an exercise in somebody who's experienced and mature. So will we see even though Antoni has got this fairly sizable buffer at the top of the championship, forty points Will it be that bit of an experience that just scuppers him and keeps this championship fight alive I don't think Kimmy Antonelli did anything particularly wrong this weekend, except potentially didn't maximize it in Q three and didn't necessarily know the rules on double yellow flag versus single yellow flag in qualifying. That's the only thing that I think he he didn't do well Maybe you didn't drive the first lap particularly brilliantly, but I don't think you would have made up Paces on lap one anyway. the pace is there He's going to win more races this year What he's got to do now is ultimately match or not not hemorrhage too many more points against the likes of George Russell and Lewis Hamilton. but right now, It's his to keep control of. What does show both this weekend and the last race in Spain is that We've been talking about these big gaps that Antonlli has built up and they are big gaps, you know in terms of the many more points than a single race victory, for example, it's still the case. forty points he leadaves Russell by That was ten that he lost today And if you've got Verstappen in the fight as well potentiallyally and maybe if Ferrari had a really bad day, which we'll come ono in a minute, I'm sure. But you know, if they can potentially threaten from time to time as well then those ten point margins can happen on a sort of semi regular basis. And if Antony is on the back end of them, then it just goes to show that Russell's hopes are a long way from over Um The season's only just beginning to have sort of develop a momentum. we've got just about the edits. We're about a third of the way into the season, aren't we We have a narrative developing But we have no idea how the narrative is going to develop from here And that's why Russell wants to stamp his authority on the next one in Silverston so badly That's exciting though isnt? We don't know where this is going to go. And we don't actually know how many more races we've got left this year currently as it stands. So we've still got a way to go. and we're now, as you say, in the sort of build up of that in the swing of things in that European season. You beat me to it with Ferrari. I think we should come to them next started second and third. Be Eh, Hamilton and Leclerc It's a tough day at the office, Sam It was It was rough. It was a hard watchatch. Ch Ch Ch Lclc just I never saw him do an overtake. He just went backwards each time. It's a really, really difficult race for for both of them to be honest, both three stopping. everybody else inside the top ten two stop. They had to three stop. I think they really suffered with overheating the tyres I'm It's clear that grades. need some work, I think. We all kind of hyped it up after Barcelona is can Sead. Well, yeah, pointing this way. I'd rather hype it up than do it now. But you know, the hype was there. Can Lewis Hamilton fight for this world title We're still a long way off seeing if he can, but on the evidence of today, there's a lot of work to do at Marineello. So this is why Harry, when you were trying to get me for the most of the weekend to bigig up Hamilton's title chance, is why I was saying, just hold your horses. Not because I knew this was going to happen, and I'm not trying to claim that, just because it was just one race on one particular kind of circuit. so is this Yes, they qualified second and third, but they were flattered by circumstance Actually, Verstappen and Antonlli at least should have been ahead of them That would have made instead of second and third, that would have put them fourth and fifth. And we wouldn't have been thinking about them as potential winners at that point, right? So that's the first thing. then Clearly the race went a bit wrong Listening to Hamilton's interview, he didn't say this, but I've extrapolated from it. He was talking about a lack of straight line speed in qualifying. himself and then started talking about, you know the balance being open, too much over steer and just lacking grip I've in inferred from that maybe incorrectly that they maybe took some wing out in the, you know, trying to counterbalance their deficit on the straightits, which they still had in Austria despite that small engine upgrade that they brought to this race And if they've done that, then that's what's cost them the balance and the grip in the corners and there's overheated of the tyres and you get into a spiral And that's why know we were all confuseduring the race during the commentary, weren't we? What on Earth are Ferrari doing? Why have they stopped under the VSC to put on soft tyres? It's only going to make them go backwards. But they already knew what we didn't know at that point, which was that they were really struggling with the tyres. They had no pace on the hard tre. they were obviously thinking at that point, okay, well, we're not going to make it on two stops. so Let's take so we've got to take a third stop anyway. Let's make it. so we're costing ourselves as little time as possible. The minute that happened, we knew their race at the front was over because it converted a third place that Hamilton had at the time into a sixth place They don't sound like a very happy camp at the moment because Fred Vaser, the team principal I've just heard him say that they overcook their tyres in the opening laps of the stints and then they ended up having to change the strategy. Yeah, a bad day at the office for Ferrari generally, but it just goes to show why it was wrong to think of them as title contenders because there's still quite a lot lacking in that car. be able to take on Mercedes They also struggled with engine overheating issues, particularly on Lewis Hamilton's car and had to change engine modes a third of the way through the race, which Lewis was really unhappy about. And you know, looking forward to Silverstone, it might not be quite as hot. as it was in Spielberg. But let's say if this heat wave continues Will we see something similar for the for Louis Hamilton and Charlte Cler at Silverone Grand Prix having to kind of to effectively turn down their power that's already N not the most powerful engine. Yeah. And as for Leclair, he's not in a happy place. He was say he tried something on set upp this weekend which worked for him last year but wasn't working this year and it didn't work again this year. So he's going back more head scratching for Charl L Clair who's really not having a great season at the moment. No. And for a driver, a bit like what we were talking about with George, you know, how important it is to bounce back and get your your brain right in that mental place for Charlotte Clt off the back of two consecutive retirements, one, you know, crashing in Monaco and then he had the crash in Barcelona during qualifying as well, trying to maybe overreach what was capable within the car but what his teammate could do How does Leclerc feel in all of this? We's had three or four difficult weekends in a row now. There's no questioning his talent. He's one of the fastest guys over a lap in Formula One and he's a brilliant world class forormera One racing driver He just needs to remember who he is and why he's Why he's a great formula one driver, he'll be fine. just hopefully this hasn't knocked his confidence too much. Well, yeah, a disappointing day for Lewis Hamilton and Charlles Leclerc. fifth and eighth at the end for Ferrari, But let's get the perspective on all of this from a seven time Grand Prix winner. Juan Pablo Montoya, thank you so much for joining us live in Austria just after the Grand Prix. and well, I mean, the consensus are end is that was a pretty decent grand Prix and a much needed victory for George Russell It was an amazing grandrie. It needed to be about three laps longer And he would have been onene of the most amazing grround braks ever because You know I mean, the different strategies I gott to say a few things are interesting. Mercedes got the strategy right. that they normally are the conservative team. You know what I mean? they always are we got a car fast enough. We don't need to risk it. And they play the cards right that he was good No I think went a little too aggressive and they wanted to have that offset so they could challenge that w and I think they lost too much time going too long, but it's easy. I mean, it's much easier to to call it after the race and seeing the facts Oh like Honestly, I was doing the TV for Spanish doinguring the race and I said the same thing. I think they need to stop him because he's losing too much time And where Antonlli, as soon as the Antonlli slowed down, Mercedes Peter Antonelli and and it was good. I think surprises as well where the Ferrari were not there that it was a bit shocking. I don't know. We all we all f that Ferrari was gonna bring that big fight. to Mercedes and they were not there. No, a really disappointing day for them. I want to ask you about them. firstirst, I just want to pick up on Max Verstappen who at certain points were in the last third of that race really looked like he was gunning for victory. Kimmy Antonlli was so quick as well. And as you say, just a few laps short of seeing how that could have played out. But I mean, if you'd said to Max Verstappen and Red Bd, you're going to finish second on Sunday. If you told them that on the Friday, I don't think they would have believed you. It was a brilliant turnaround It is surprising and you know, we interview Mchis before the race and after the race and Before the race said, Oh, you know, we're not there yet. We're working on it. And then after the race, it was like, really I mean, you guys had so much pace Something we got to, you know there's when you're a driver, you go to certain places where you arere very good And you make up time even in the car. likeike for me was Brazil For some blooded reason, every time I went to Brazil, I was good and Munza. Those two places, he didn them m of the car. I knew I was going to be competitive. And if you look at Max, you know, Max is amazing and it's great everywhere. but He's stellar in Austria and in Silverson So we're going we just came out of Austria and he showed what he could do And we're going into Silverstone next week with an amazing shot of seeing what Redvul can bring So do you think it's just a case then of track specifics rather than us getting ahead of ourselves and going Well Red Bull brought upgrades this weekend. It clicked on Sunday. Verstappens back in the hunt We gotta remember this Tes brought two upgrades already. Far, I've brought two upgrades already Mercedes only bred one And Mercedes We I spoke to Toto and he said Now now we have more coming. We just withith our budget cap and things We look at what the other teams are doing and we're going they doing all this, you know He even said it's kind of interesting. what's going to happen at the end of the year When people run out of budget. It certainly will be. Well, that's good news then we go to Silverston to Max Verstappen should be on form again next week. We haven't got long till we see what happens there Kimmy Antonelli in the other Mercedes already mentioned a bit about him, but I just wonder, obviously with all the yellow flag scenarios in qualifying possibly prevented from poll, but that shouldn't do a disservice to what George Russell managed to get out the bag in the end. But in the race, Kimmy look quick. those virtual safety car timings though. Do you think if if Kimy had pitted maybe just a lap later. It might well have been Grand Prix victory question is didid Kimy missed it or the team missed it or who? You know what mean? that I don't know I saw the car slow down and I saw Iy coming in, I I going why are they anticipating this? because I don't know. it's likeike your mind goes, oh, did Mercedes, you know, what why? You know what I mean? It's like, why do they just do this? The same question at hard. when when they went with three stops with with Louis it made sense But then Why do they go to the soft? And then, you know, we're talking in the post race and they said, Ohh, becausecause he ran out of tires. They didn't have enough tires Because if you're going to do a three stop in a hot track Yes, let's start with a soft tire but then you should go mediums or hard. and being realistic What Lewis should have gone instead of those soft in the middle, he should have gone with the hard, extend that towards the end of the race and then push like crazy under the soft tire with a lower fuel load. The issue here is when it's heat related. I think the fuel load pllays a part, but it's a small a part Yeah, what could have been? I mean, you mentioned earlier disappointing for Ferrari overall, Charlot Cler had a really bad day at the office and considering they started second and third on the grid. And we were saying, what just a couple of weeks ago after Barcelona, you know, Hamilton and Ferrari. they've got the strategy right, bigig upgrades. They're back. Was this a bit of a wake up call Promise becausecause we haven't seen a lot of three stops. in F one in that recent years, people don't underestimated the power of the less degradation. And I think that's something Nobody's used to seeing And they said, o, it's pure pace I think if if If the Mercedes would have done a three stops, they would have won the race You know what I mean? And the other thing that played into Hamilton's win last, you know, last week in Barcelona that I mean, they F played it beautifully because they stopp to do a three stop And Mercedes reacted to it and they compromise a two stop race. They they put themselves in an uncomfortable long run, you know, long long steams were You really need to manage the tres and you're sacrificing let's say they stopped on lap twelve An ideal t stop was like lap eighteen or twenty So you're really compromising your race And ultimately, they couldn't quite follow up the heroics of Barcelona, but we'll see what they've got next time out at the British Grand Prix. Juan Paban Montoya, thank you so much for your time and joining us on the pod Sfe traravels home. Thank you very much guys. Wellullet we are Rapidly getting to the end of the podcast. We always run at a time, but we haven't spoken guys about McLaren. Oscar Piastri fourth, Lando Norris seventh. Aually a bit of an under the radar drive for Piastri Good place for fourth. Really solid drive from Oscar Piastri, yeah. and they're just a little bit in no man's land atc McLaren at the moment car's not quite quick enough. They're admitting that quite happily, well not happily, but openly. They've got upgrades coming quite soon, I believe, and they need them. But I think Piastri delivered everything that was possible from the car Landon Rse was just a bit unlucky, lost a place to Piastri on the first lap Then that meant that Piastri got priority on the stops. That meant that Norris got undercut by Hjar in the other Red Bull, which he then got stuck behind for the rest of the race. so he ended up where he did. He said he was quite reasonably happy with this pace in clear air. He just didn't have enough of it So that's why he ended up where he was. Yeah and yeah, so only a few points scored for the reigning world champion. We should probably then just touch on the last two scorers Liam Lawson and Harvard Limblad Sam racing balls once again in the points B of the midfield Avid Limblad. for anybody that saw A little bit earlier, I called him I called him Victor Victor. so out of the blue. I've been getting it in the neck all the last couple of hours, but I watching too much football, Sam, obviously. Yeah exactly. Yeah, man United fan. Another solid result for them, they're really stamping their authority in that mid midfield race, best of the rest at the moment. I thought in had a bit of a shocker, but racing Balls definitely had a decent enough afternoon. Yeah, there's certainly a lot work to do in that mid pack and retirements for Cadillac, Aston Martin and Williams as well. So Cadillac bought a big upgrade this weekend, turning into a bit of a nightmare. Well I mean they didn't did they have three racing laps between two cars, so we didn't get to see any of those upgrades working They've got recurring brake problems. It's not the first race that they've retired with brakes on fire basically, and they need to come on top of that pretty quickly Before I close things out, is it worth just reflecting on the race as a whole that we saw And we a common theme this year has been overtakes and the artificiality of it, yoy yo racing. I thought today we had some pretty epic racing that Hamilton and Verstappen going wheel to wheel, that was pretty spectacular to see It was great racing between the two of them. There wass a bit of he deserves a penalty for that for Max St wasn't they all over again forth wide it turn six when he tried to go around the outside and look and also Hamilton and Lecler put in some great racing. It's not completely clear at the moment what happened. So was it derating at the end of the straight? That's where, for example, that's where one car runs out of battery power and the other one doesn't. Was it the east of the overtake mode quite sure, but whatever it was, it did look great and the complaints about you know this on the limit qualifying, it's still there in the background, but the drivers are sort of quiet anded down about it now that they know that the FIA and F one and the teams have set in motion some rule changes over the next couple of years to try and address that. So yeah, you wouldn't you wouldn't have expected to see that kind of level of racing at this racetrack in previous years. And this is the point about these engines. They are they come with some downsides that some people don't like But if they can find the right balance, then it does open the door to some of this you know really intense and interesting racing Sam, if we can get more of what we saw Hamilton of Vstappen doing today We're in for a brilliant rest of the season. I'm loving the racing this season to be honest, I know There's limitations in qualifying and some people are a little bit unhappy about that. But some of the racing that we've had, the side by side wheel to wheel action. has been absolutely spectacular Well, let's hope that continues. in a week's time, British Grand Prix next week, a big week of build upp to that Well, I was just going to say Silson's the best rac trrack in terms of racing on the calendar, I think probably. just the way the new the latest layout that came in whenever it did, you know fif two thousando ten thing. Yeah exactly. Thank you. I thought it was I was thinking twenty ten, but I wasn't quite sure It's always been good for racing. So it's going to be really interesting to see how these new cars work at Silverston It will be. and we will be there as well. The nineteen ninety six FR worldorld Champion, Damon Hill will be part of our five live coverage. And I believe we're going to be doing a podcast today from the Thursday onwards. Is that have I over promised? I've over promised. No we are. No we are doing one. Yeah. So BBC Sounds and the BB S sport YouTube channels where you need to be for all of that. Andrew Sam, thank you very much for your time. George Russell, the winner of the Austrian Grand Prix Bye Les for. I'm Steve Bratnell, host of Games Gone, the Steve Bratnell podcast. What's my favourite Wor Cup moment as a fan? I have to say, Micha Lowing skinning the whole of the Argentina defence and crackenking the top corner for a very short space of time, I believe. favorite Wld Cup player in history. It won't be popular, but I'm gonna say Diego Madadononna. O he unbled it. But the guy was a complete genius. The People World Cup twenty twenty six. Listen on BBC sounds