Death of Luther and Peace of Augsburg

They say history is written by the winners But it is kept alive by losers Boring people with sad lives and bodyily odor National trust employees are, in a way their own kind of ruin Much like this twelfth century abbbey, their genisiles have long since been abandoned and now lie crumbling to be visited only by the very ugly Excuse me But if history is written by the winners, who is history written for? Well the answer is obviously m. Not you. G away Women of course have fiction, novels, but that's not for men. Why should I care about some made up horny Irish people? History is about so much more than looking around a shit building staffed by sexless faties. What are you still doing here History can get the blood pumping. things like tank battles, amphibious landings, the exploitation of indigenous communities. This is history that gets a man rock hard when we talk about things like slavery, war crimes, or genocides H time we realized that not all history is created equal. And that's why I'm delighted to announce that my first book The history of mankind in its entirety brackets abridged An unsupervised PHD is available now to preordder in hardback or audioobook if you're thick This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a fifty page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online makes sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set upp required compatibility and availability varies eighteen plus Welcome back to Fin versus History. I'm joined by Horatio Gould. Hello. and today is part two of our deep dive on the Reformation. Martin Luther. A great man loveving this you're pig in shit. I am a pig in shit. and I don't just mean in this episode, I mean generally Thanks to this man, Luther He hass held up a mirror to me and I can see that I'm a pig of shit. Yeah. And you like what you see. It's my own relationship with shit. I don't need some intermediary. It's a romance. It' your like bureaucracy. It's your own reading of what the shit means. Yes U yeah, I've been given a label finally to understand my own brain. Right Yeah. Presbyterian. I'm an extremist and I'm just reading back my own history, really? Yeah. But so hang on, if you're mixed Catholic So your mixed race, how does that manifest though? It's sort of like on the scale if you're It's also in the straight gay scale, isn't it? Yeah. You know, you drink backack coffee. drink coffee with milk. Right.ainable. Do know what I mean it's like So I definitely I enjoy subtext, I enjoy poetry, I enjoy art, enjoy visual things.. does get too much sometimes. Right. And I go All right, that's enough. Yeah yeah. So I like a bit of gay stuff. I like gay aesthetics to be honest. I'm very visually gay. Yes' just emotionally I'm straight as hell. If you could, ye, you would walk down the street in dungery shorts wearing a little necktie. Go But then the kind of tryrying at everything, I don't relate to that. No. So that's the rare combination that is like I want to be involved. when we're gossiping, it's all really fun. Yeah when it get to emotion. I'm like, well, when the dicks out and the's for us. So I drink black coffee, you drink coffee with milk. The Italians are putting ice cream in coffee It's a new level. Okaykay? It they are beyond repair. Who is working after that Who's going to work Having had a fucking afogato Tnder morning Now we didn't really deal with Martin Luther the man The M ofth the man The M manan the Myth, my king, my legend. But he is we find him now at the Diet of Wermms which is ye, I guess this is your love of German history as well. Martin Luther is a real There's something intrinsically German about him. Yes.. the kind of intenseness, I guess. Again, he's the first source of is there shelessness to Martin Luther? Sure. Of course. A serious yeah. but also a groundedness to him.s you know, there's no element of fantasy or like hope Yeah There's a realism. there's a coldness. Yeah. There's a logic But actually this. I like it that you say these words as if they're positive. the tone you're saying them, but they sound negative. These are my prayv. These are my words to hold.'. boring you know, it's fantastic. He's not actually he's unimaginative He's not actually boring. We're going to get into boring for the next episode Do you think Luther's boring?. hold my non alcoholic beer I give you John Calvin but anyway. We're in the diet of Vermms fifteen twenty one in the first Reich, the Holy Roman Empire. And to recap, Martin Luther has built on the work of very He's been running his mouth. He has been running his mouth. He's gone viral He's been running his printing press. He's running his printing press. because this is this is not him typing, right No. You have to build I don't know. you build it. It's like a piano, isn't it? You push buttons and they I think the print press work. You build the type, the type and then you press it all that' one. It's like a big typewriter piano and someone pulls a lever and a Letes. Or do you build the whole you build the whole thing uck So you build the book and then you press the book. I guess you can do that load. Yeah, but it's not to done it then did they. When did they work out that a typewriter you could actually R was the type writer Because I feel like typewriters are quite late given how small a step it is in logic to go from printing press to tightriser. eighteen sixty eight. Yeah, that is late. Very late Because really I would have made that jump, I reckon Inantly I mean Instantly I'd gone, Well, hang on, there we can make this more efficient. I've probably come up with a map book Yeah, you're right I would just come up with an iPhone I'll just come up with Chat GBC in the sixteen hundreds and I wouldn't like done. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah that is interesting that they hadn't quite worked. They had They' made the whole book The whole bookad is just pages. It's pages the time. But they they must have like two hundred plates. I think they have every letter, this is what I'm imagining. They have every letter in the alphabet and they build Each two pages at a time because it's a two page spread. Yeah. And then if you're making a thousand copies, just do a thousand of those Next two pages, thousands of those N nextxt two d d d d So it still takes fucking ages. they It is's not actually that good. Is it? Yeah, but what was the other option? Tight writer? No, no, before this. again, you know what's this replacing? Be before We we replacing gossip? This is just basacing word of mouth. Yeah. No, but there's people writing the wholeook. Imagine if you want to make a copy of a book. you had to write God no. to write it out then no one's got anything to do also Yeah Anyway, so the printing press has meant Luther's ideas have spread and he has been summoned to the diet of worms by Charles V the Holy Roman emmperor. Now we should deal with Charles V fif. Get a photo of him up because he looks insane Charles the fif. Oh was just the guy with the Chad jawline. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's my guy. So Charles the Fth is a Habsburg Ohot that fucuckking Habsburg jaw, which is now coming into fashion again,aw? Well the clavicular, right It's like jaw maxing. Yeah, but that's that's not no. No, no, no, surely that's not. You're saying this is the first if you're watching, we're looking at a photo in a way, it's a looks Max. Charles Fth. I guess he's iness maxing. He is incess maxing. Yeah. Yeah, it means that he's jaw bogging. Everyone's damking everyone I say he's also downsmogging people U he looks like I mean, he looks like Richard the third. If he had Down S syndrome? I mean, he's an astonishing looking guy. But he's also one of the most famous people in European history that we don't really Yes, because he was also was he also Charles V of Spain. Yeah he like owned most of Europe and the pope in his pocket. And fucking Mexico, the Aztecs. He's the emperor. When they discovered When do they discover when's that all kick off? Is that it's around this time, isn't it? The Aztec nonsense that fifteen thirties The exact time of just before the Dight of Vermms, Cortez meets Moctozuma. That is weird., isn't it? So Charles the fifth and as this is important, he's fucking busy. He's a busy guy He's also got the biggest jaw maybe that's from stress. I got so stressed during my debut at Edinburgh that I ate my jaw as a click that has never gone. I had that and it does go Does it? It does go. Did you get wasas it from Edinburgh? yeah, I think so. I had a period that hady. ye No, it wasn't actually. This is when I woke up. this is after I broke up with my girlfriend I I was dumped And I dear reader, he was dumped. I dear read I was dumped. And I basically I was grinding my teeth so much at night. att one point Now this is very, very presresbyarian. this is the kind of extreme Hustle Giner at night asleep fr my teeth so much with, I suppose unprocessed stress or I guess love grief, whatever you want to call it. Charlie can write some kind of poem you don know. Anyway, I was grinding my teeth at night and then basically I heard this pop And I got a fucking black eye I woakeke up with the black eye my go That's about be the most Potestant way to deal with the outbreak? Yeah, exactly. When you're like, love grief, I don't know what the fuck you can find then you And so I thought I woke up, I genuinely thought I'd punch myself in the face during my sleep. And that's what I told people. I went and did old rope the next night, and they were like, what? And I went, I think I pch myself in the face when my sleep. And They were like, reallyally? I went, Yeah, I don't know. And then a doctor, basically had like a kind of lock jaw and I had a click. and he was like, o no, that'll be. And then a dentist actually said, No your teeth you've been grinding your teeth haven't you That be what that is Right, so mayaybe is a Protestant clicking jaw that just happens for Yeah. I basically burst my eye socket running my teeth. But, you know, I didn't need therapy. Yeah It's fine, you know, you can just grind your teeth and you can just grind you can just grind your teeth. Like that is always an option You know, there is better yourself up by your molars. There's better help. There's also worse help. I'm a representative of worse H where you just grind your teeth, you black eye, and then, you know, time passes and you're fine. Anyway, Hello, I'm Dorian Alinsky from Mrigin Story. And I'm Ian Dun. We're the host of a podcast that tries to tell the truth. about the political terms that we use today. None of the tribal bullshit, none of the irrationality, none of the hysteria accuracy and laughs as we try to understand the world around us We dig into history to tell stories that explain why we are where we are today. And we're very excited that we get to do this on stage as well And soon we will be doing it at our biggest ever live show. Yeah, On september first in the Union Chapel, London, come join us there for a night of laughs, maybe a few tears, and just a general feeling of moral vindication. There's a link to my tickets in the show notes, and the good news is if you're a patron, you get a fairly substantial discount. So if you've been thinking of signing up, now's a good time We'll see that So yeah, he is stressed, but he also he looks absolutely clapped. and this is what is called the Habsburg jaw. Which is really is that really coming back in No, Just the jawline, the kind of Yeah there's jawline but that that is that's mad. Anyway So he's the king of Spain and he's the Holy Roman Emperor And he's sort of a huge figure in European history. We don't really know much about him Anyway, he is elected in fifteen nineteen. and he's elected partly by Frederick the Wise, Luther's sponsor at the University of Wittenberurg. So he calls this diet at Vverms and he's like right It's all kicking off from the Holy Roman Emperor A lot of empire, a lot of the princes in the regions are like Oh, this would be great if this Luther guy was right because that would mean we could have more power over our regions So they're kind of latching onto it as a political course. Yeah. So he's like Henry VII eventually did. It's all veryery similar. Yeah Yeah. So and I should say actually we're going to deal with the English Reformation when we do Henry VII, which is coming up this summer. Yeah separate thing. a separate. So anyway, so at Vverms, Luther's like, I don't want to go Because you're blatantly gonna do what he did to goose. Yeah and goose And so at fifteen twenty Luther eventually goes, okay, yeah, I will I will go to the diet And I think he doesn't he go there Christ like Did he sort of walk there with like barefoot with followers. and he's kind of mimicking Christ. This't this very consciously? This is like a salt walk. ort of like a sal, but he's consciously mimicking Christ on that whatever March Christ does. So he gets guaranteed safe passage and then out at the diet, Luther gets they basically like, didid you write this? Yeah. And he goes Yeah, Yeah And then and then they say what of it? Yeah and what? what And what mate? They say, do you stand by your arguments? And then he says G me a second give a minute. N need to another toilet. And then he takes a day a day of just kind of an awesome way to like Be asked a question, be like Can I just have a couple days Uh, ye giveive me a day also. I'll get back to you. So he says he's gonna take a day of prayer before I it's like the viral Russell Brand moment. Yeah Bussi just he's just there just going through. I mean that is absolutely extraordinary television. If you watched give Pierce' flowers. I mean, that's an unbelievable moment th there. It is. Morgan's got him there. And also Morgan having the kind of instincts to let that sit The man who interrupts people more than anyone in TV, knowing to not interrupt. it's extraordinary.s incredible. Hilarious that he interrupts any woman ever. And then a serial rapist he just no, give him, here's the floor, please They interrupt, don't tell a manan while he's looking for a Bible verse D't tell a man. He's silent What's a woman complaining? Excuse me. No, I've got an opinion today. Yeah, but n that was that yeah, the brand Morgan interview, if you've not seen it the whole thing's extraordinary. I've watched the whole thing. Joyous. He's throwing every word he knows out there All of them. Back against the wall. Back against the wall ucking j tra et. Yeah, it's amazing. Anyway Luther takes a day of prayer before answering the second question, which is do you stand by all this stuff Um And then he comes back the next day and I think he's like literally there's a council of Whatever bishops or I don't know They were like Star Wars people. ight They're in the close yeah. And and emperor Emperor Charles Fifth is there. And he says, unless I'm convinced by the testimony of the scriptures bound by the scriptures I've quoted and my conscience is captive to the Wd of God cannot and will not recant anything since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience So he he's basically the first person to like Consci the idea of a conscience? Yes Becauseuse there's an argument that Luther is qu. Luther starts individualism Yes Very much so. So he's the first person who goes to the church and says also having morality be based on an eternal Yeah idea as opposed to being toult you by it It's church. Yeah, it's the first person ever said I'm going to speak my truth. My truth, My lived experience. Yes very. It's the of identity politics. Interesting, the idea of rebound conscience. The notice that an individual's conscience informed by scripture is superior theuthority of the church council.'t We we didn't invent the concept of conscience, but he basically elevates it to be on a par within the Catholic Church whichich is very radical. Hugely radical Yeahah, he says at the diet of worermms, hereere I stand, I can do no other. this is like this shatters shatters the Catholic world Yeah So he's basically stood up to the Holy Roman Emperor So then Luther kind of escapes, sort of Because Charles the maybe sees him. Maybe it like that? like Lord Farquare. Yeah. sees him. God God sees him. Yeah But I think actually the diet ends and then they all go home. and then later, Charles the F releases the Edict of Vermms, which declares that Luther's an outlaw who needs to be arrested for So they take time to try and process what he said Yeah, they must do. Yeah. They go home and blow the killed it They should have crazy they didn't. But they say he's an outlaw, he needs to be arrested, charged with heresy. His works are banned. It is a crime for anyone to help him and it is legal for anyone to kill him. whichich is an interesting way of doing it because have they put a hit out on him or they just said, if you kill him, you're fine. But if you give him safe passage, you're a criminal. Right ye. Interesting. The interesting to do that No one does that nowadays, that isillegal for anyone to kill someone Because this is ins saying it's not like legal for law enforcement to kill Luther. the old any fire Yeahah, citizenss arrest. Yeah. Is that guy trying It would be kind of fun if there was people like that Well, there are people like that. They trred cizens to arrest Tony Blair every day. as the guyurant to kill No They made it so is like If you fancy killing someone, you had a complete it like the purge, but for one person. It just kissed armor I don't know whoever. Kist Aara said it's legal to kill kill what one person One person. Yeah. or whoever and get out his system. Yeah. So in order to protect him, his sponsor Frederick IId gets him kidnapped by men dressed as bandits And so Luther gets taken to Wartburg Castle in Iselach. So Friedrich keeps him alive Yeah protects him because Friedrich wants the devolution of power from the Pope. But also he's a star academic and he doesn't want the university to be like disgraced. R. So yeah, because it's surprising that the most powerful forces in Europe don't L But this is also I think at this time maybe thepain Spain are at war with the French or something and there's the Aztec stuff going on. Emperors going on I mean, he's stressed you know he's waking up with a black eye grinding his jaw so much. Yeah. So Charles the fif can't really deal with it. and also he doesn't have any direct control over the Holy Roman Empire This is why this didn't happen in Czechoslovakia Hice Because there wasn they didn't have that They don't have the local power in Saxony. In Saxony So Martin Luther goes into hiding at a castle Uh Castle Vartburg. Fatbg Fatburg Castle and this is where lookook, we're doing our best to stay off Poo Yeah, this is what was I was reading the plan. I was like, in general, we've had meetings where' like, look, it's too easy to talk about shit. There's obviously been moments where we've had to talk about it for a while, but in general, we need to aim higher as a podcast. We cannot keep being lost in the realms of shit. But sadly, the historically relevance of the shit we found ourselves once again having to do probably another twenty five minutes on the shit. We are a Protestant podcast Okay, we are all caked and shit and it's fine Okay. So so you know, we are trying to move away from shit. We can't just this episode we do have to talk about shiting. We can't just talk to a priest about pooing ourselves and then suddenly we're free from shitting. No. Okay. This is Luther's great thing We're all in the gutter. I have a pose if you like That man is the king So you need to go to the toilet? Yes Uh anyyway, So he goes into hiding and this is where he kind of goes mad. He grows a beard. And bear in mind he has been he has been It's an intense guy. He's an intense guy. He's obsessed with his own bowel movements. Yes. He's veryy much like Gandy. very, very veryy very similar to Gandy. He is also It seems like any His go to analogy when he doesn't like something is to call it like shit. So basically he's calling the Catholic Church like, oh, well your guys are already poopy. Poopy ps. you mean the poop? and the poop? Yeah He's like Beethoven's brothering it like The great poop in Rome So he's he's he's quoted as saying that he was in the sewer when he realized that spiritual salvation was achieved through faith rather than deeds and actions He was constantly constipated. Now while he's in exile, he is basically on the toilet the whole time. Which it must shape A lot of his work shapes the Reformation his conation It's hard to know how much his actual philosophical conscience, how much is The second brain, as we know now, you're right. What brain was he writing with The first or second brain? I don't know The kind of misunderstanding of kind of you need ferments, you need kfir and stuff like that. This is probably The frustration is where a lot of this writing was coming from But so hang on, just talk me through the extrapolation of Protestant theology from being contstipated. Well, if you look at the fury and anger of his writings because he's huled away hiding in a basement, all he's got is a printing press and he's just sendting up mad things. The frustration of being constipated not seeing anyone. colors the type of writing he's doing and the intensity of the writing. And that means that the flame of the Reformation spreads a lot further because of how tenense and heavy writing here I suppose it's keeping things it's keeping things inside, isn't it? Much like me just grinding my daught to my face exposures Yeah I just, don't let it out. Yeah. bottle it up. But he's wriding from the toilet Yes he is writing from the toilet So he invents individualism. Yeah much like Gandy, he's doing test cricket sessions on the toilet and he is saying revolutionary thought that comes to him. He has dividing inspiration on the toilet. Yeah He's obsessed with Poo. So he does go mad when he's in the castle. Now while he's doing this, he's translating the Bible from the original Greek into German. I'll just say maybe if he wasn'tplosed, he might' have forgiven the Catholic Church or yeah, might have's actually right. see the shit ye That would be mad. Yeahah, I thought it was because I thought it was the god and devil trying because he also thinks He keeps having visions of the devil And he keeps thinking, because it's such a superstitious age, he's feeding all these. He sees a black dog he thinks that's the devil. He chucks out the fucking window. He does chuck a dog out of the wind. penetrates a dog. You know, And I think he probably just interprets this gut feeling. This must be the devil trying. But if he'd cleared out his bowels, he might have been ld. That's brilliant. So what as if so it'd be like that being called the diet of worms in your poo Yeah I don't why I was so angry.orry, sorry I just I just reallyen needed a. You're not you when you need a shit. Yes. That's exactly. So he's in the castle, He thinks he sees the devil everywhere. The devil's in his bows. He does, as weve said, chuck a dog out a window. But he had no choice. No, that he was backed into a corner. Is that the new phrase for pooing? I don't know it's a euphemism. He he actually ch He does actually chuck a dog out a window But I think that's symbolic of his frustration that he can't chuck all his poo out his arse. Oh, you think it's a cipher for? I think it's Freudian thing where he the idea he sees it is represented to the shit, he throws out the window Right, Yeah that's what he wants. He wants to do fenestrate his shit out his arms. because this is pre What's the opposite of the mode? rel we should placeace this, shouldn't we?. The diet of worermms is in fifteen twenty one So Keep it German It's a this is before we basballed Dresden Y. which is in Saxony Yes, it is. you're right. Yeahep before Dreson Gott Ten to the cleaners. and it's after Caesar costed This Aent in Saxony. D? Yeah, you' saying' there's a there is another Holocaust, the Celtic Holocaust How many we talking Pretty big. Well million million, I don't know about that A b million such a figure' such a big number So sixty BC. Yeah, That's a lot of people. I don't know about that. I don't know. Anyway, o, so we're in fifteen twenty one betwixt the Holocausts. Yep. Lovely. That's the name of my new book. Between the Holocaust and Saxony here, between the Holocaust. So he's throwing a dog out a window. he's writing constantly. he's translating the Bible into Jermn. Skatology. Yeah. What does that actually mean? pay Is it? Yeah But I wascatting. Oh right, right. funnily enough, Schatology is an obsession with Poo. Are there any courses in Satology? Well, Charlie's achatologist. These are professionalychologists Or a coprolologist Now coprolology is filth Is that is that fucking poo? what's What's fucking Poo? Fucking Poo is a Charlie's Native American name. Of course it is. Yeahkingoo. But you can also what's funny is that Satology is obsession with poo, but eschatology is obsession with the end times, the religious end times? They're quite close. They' quite close. yeah So if you're an eschatologist, you're talking about the apocalpse. and if you're aatologist, you're talking about thepucalypse. Yes if you're a scat eschetatologist. You're a scat you're youre the end time of the end timees' drraown him who. Yeah. Yes, you're right. You believe that when you go to the toilet and poo, the world will end. Yeah. ye Let's save up whooo talk for the immense amount of quotes we've got coming up as well. Yeah I' a lot coming up. J just to be very clear because we need to make sure that everyone's on our side. Copraphilia is the psychological term for a sexual fetish involving feces. Copraphagia is the specific act of consuming feces. C So you're a coprophagist. Clection Scat aphilia refers to sexual pleasure derived from pieces, offten used in the phrase scat play. Sat play it does just sound sounds too jazzy for you're put It is pretty jazz.oo boo prettyty jazzy There's no structure to it. Yeah. But again, that is all Catholic stuff personally. We are in the missionary only world Okay Donogkey is the devil Yeah, o. Okay. Reververse cowgirl is the devil It's just about missionary. Yeah Get it done. Get it done. And do it with it't don't do it like Yeah. Do it like you're doing your taxes, be Also the female orgasm is Catholic. Yeah. yeah Okay, if we're being calvalist about this It's just for procreation.. So he's a grumpy old pooh guy stuck in a castle, chucking dogs out the windows And he also now does he marry when he's in the castle Charlie Chary Charlie Charie. tellell the listeners what you just put on the screen This is why you just put on the screen A man called Simon packs shit into condoms and fucks and sucks them and that's I mean, don't we can't show that. We can't show that. Absolutely disgusting, Charlie C't be sick That is awful. I think he's in a car as well. Who's letting him in the car? We've got actual historical shit to deal with. let's not bring up pictures of shit on Reddit. We've got enoughorry that's one guy three shits, isn't it That's one guy three cups of shit. Come on, Charlie, Charlie off Charlie get rid of it. G rid of it. get rid of it. So Martin Luther is in the car Sorry, I'm be sick. Martin Luther. Marries Katherina von Bora. Bora. So he's a former monk and she's a former nun, okay. let the dog see the rabbit. Let's have a look at Katherine von Borgh. Let's a at her. Let's how von Borr, she is. This is the original Aa Brown. Let's have a look at her. You bit of Vbora last night. B now I don't hate it Badge' got a devilish knowing love. Oh lovely actually for the age, I think Yeah I think she's a bit of a smoke show. Yeah. So while he's in there while he's hiding, obviously the pope is supposedly trying to find them quote Luther says, almost every night when I wake up, the devil is there and wants to dispute with me. I've come to this conclusion when the argument that the Christian is without the law and above the law doesn't help, I instantly chase him away with the fart He calls the Pope's teachings farts out of his stinking belly. Basically, if he ever has an argument in his head Solicism, he foughts it away. I think he means he's the devil is constipating him. Right. And so him farting is an act of defiance againainst the devil. Right The elimination is so hard that I'm forced to press with all my strength even to the point of perspiration.e he's swey on the toilet trying to do a poo If it was mixed with blood, then there was a relief and almost a pleasure in bing that I was often inclined to defecate. and if it was touched with the finger it itched pleasurably He's talking about and the blood flowed, but it's also like Martin what he's talking about telling us this. He's talking about scratching his piles. Yeah, but Martin. Wh Why are you wr? Is he printing pressing this? I think he is. Is this his diaries? Is this being put into the printing press? And the Pston performers I diaries? I Martin, I don't Yeah so I suppose I guess we shouldn't be reading Martin's diarary. We shouldn't reading his diary. Dear devil, I have shattered my pants and breeches, hang them on your neck and wipe your mouth with them Is to exist what Anne Frank' star is but I've not read that one S she talk about this Anyway, yeah, he's going mad right puting in a castle. He's married Catherine Von Bora and his friends say that he's just irritable and he's getting gout a lot. Yeah. I mean, listen, a sixteenth century German diet Yeah is not one that It's stodgy. I mean we were talking about loose stalls on the Gandy episode This is some of the firmest stools you can get. While he's in there This episode is brought to you by Starbucks. That is fiire. Whoa, that's good. This might be the drink of the summer. Okay, I like this much too. I'm not worth it, okay? Try it for yourself. Starbucks refreshers concentrates are coming home. Find them in the coffee aisle and make it yours Wantna know the real story of how Oasis made Britain mad for it, how friends turned us ono coffee culture and super layered hair. 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In Fables of the Reconstruction, How to Fix the USA, I'll be talking to experts and friends of the Bunker to look at if, why and how the American system could use a total rethink. Search the bunker on your favorite podcast app U the Reformation he's kind of like set he's set something in train. So Uh Now I can't remember the names, but there are these guys that basically start kind of their own like violent reformation in and around Wittenberg And this leads to the German peasant war of fifteen twenty five where these movements are inspired by Luther and they're actually much more radical than Luther what sense they start toppling statues. Right This is the first statue topplers. Tdlers Statue topplers. Yeah. They're like tearing out of churches, they're tearing down idols, they' they're more kind of towards Calvin than Luther. Luther actually isn't that boring. No. He still believes in Bread and wine He just doesn't like the political organization of the church. He just likes the match of boringness simply the ye. But what I find about the Reformation is it's not like often with these revolutionaries they have like a figure who's the fighead who's the revolutionary is a culture personality. He just gets it going and then everyone's doing their own thing and it breaks into a million different pieces. Yeah It doesn't really have like a focal point in the same way. Well, this is Jude and people's front, isn't it? Because suddenly once he ultimately breaks the monopoly, the church on authority Yeah, everyone starts coming out of the Wookburg. So these guys in Wittenberurg There's Vicao profits preach ideas like adult baptism and the equality of all men. Yeah Right. So this is communist filth. This is Goog Ault diapers. A diapers. Exactly. And so the Wittenberg toown Council asked Luther to return in order to calm the revolts. So adult baptism, which we'll get onto a lot when we talk about the Amish, which is that's quite interesting because that's basically saying that you need to be an adult so you can consent your own bapt sight wrele brand He was baptized as an adult Right, Yeah. But then he doesn't Ironically he needs to consent to the baptism. Yeah, so this is the idea that you should know willingly go willingly into what you're doing So Wittberg Luther returns to Wittenberg in secret in march fifteen twenty two And he basically tries to banish the Zicu profits and work with the authorities to restore profits ban this Vickow. Yeah So problem is that all the new more radical Protestants they think Luther is going to lead them Ian why is Ian Watkins on the screen? The profits, the lost profits. Lost profits That's why Lost Protests. He got killed the other day didn't? He got killed you know T ago, yeah. Oh yeah. yeah minute silence in Friend of the pods I'm Right, So not the Vic sorry, yes, thes Vicu prophets, notot the lost prophets. Right Yeah, sorry. I can see I see what happened then. Yeah. Anyway, Luther banishes the Vicu prophets. who were radical, but I suppose yeah, not as radical as someome of Ian Walkins ideas this is where it's ended up you know, Go on unpack that one.. take us from ninety five Thses to be in now. No no, I'd like to see the working. It'ing truth, isn't it Yeah,'s how relationship, you know. He was framing it. Is that how he was framing it? I don't know Or was he like Think of it' more like that L you man, which is. Which is whatest it is No hang on, hang on. I'll explain, G I wanted to get onto this actually, but I might as well talk about it now. Being an emo is Protestant. This is the long road to Fuck humumour. Yeah, to beair Ian Wilkins wasn't say Fuck Humor. He was saying Yes, but he had his own interpretation on the text. Right. I see. Okay. He read between the lines. I think he misunderstood crucially. I think he was a violently misunderstood man No Culture treats their parents with more anger than a Protestant country. Ewhere around the world, be it Africa, China, South America, Gree, the Mediterranean., you're taught to respect your parents and to not question that in Protestant countries, you're taught to say fuck you fuck you m. ' all the kind of where are you? That is Yeah you rank Yes, you know, Yeah Amlet is a very Protestant character in many ways you're dealing with your own consciousness and like your own relationship with these things. That's not a Catholic thing. It's basically saying, all my I fucking hate my family. Yeah you know Yeah, you can't do that.t It doesn't really work in the cultures, it's about getting around the table together as one collective unit here it's like no one understands me. Yeah, they're in the bedroom. like they get me. Yeah self harmness process. very much So. Yeah, you're right. I still don't really like the idea that me and Watkins are cut from the same cloth. Yeah, well, you know, is what He's born in Wales, okay, fine. fine, He's Welsh. Yes. Anyway let's get back to the German peasant war rather than the war that Watkins had with his own Cnty mug shot. Sorry. You got very countuy mugs shot I think that's the least of his crim. Yeah, I think'm yeah, Can we get him off, please? Yeah, come on, Chary. come on I don't know what's worse. Just the amount of what can have on the screen or a man eating three pood in a condom. Anyway So now he's trying to keep the peace, but this is what's interesting is that this is essentially I um You know Luther' sort of a My moderate conservative So it's a social revolution by moderate conservatives. Right Yeah. Right. So he's basically saying he's trying to keep the peace. Yeah. and yet he's let loose. This sort of people who want to go much further. Yeah. The revolts basically kick off And this is the largest popular uprising in Europe before the French Revolution. Really? Yeah. So there are these guys called Thomas Munter, Muner. Yeah, all the names are brilliant. Brilliant and Andreas Karlstadt And he now Luther says these guys are is the work of the devil And he comes they'reest Protestant. Yeah, but they're too far they' too far this is, you know, but this is this is u a culture, right? Yes is. yourself, they're not real, they know they lor degreeact exactly. ye. So Luther comes out against the uprisings and many of the rebels then leave the movement, but then there's these massive battles between the kind of authorities, the holy Roman princes and these rebels led by Munster and Karlstadt. and there's the Battle of Frankenhausen in may fifteen twenty five. which I think is the insspiration for the biggest painting in the world Is that right? the biggest painting ever? whoo's gone for it? I've gone for it He' hang himself out to He's left his belly open. And here we go. know it's the peasant warar panorama The largest oil painting in the world It depicts the fifteen twenty five Battle of Frankenhaen with over three thousand figures And it's an East German painting It's an East German painting because East Germany during the GDR, they try and claim Munster and Klstadt. proto communists. Yes, well there's there is there is a link, I do feel between Luther and Marx and a lot of this these ideas, the purity. If you think about the communist it. Yes. there's something quite Protestant. There is something quite yeah, there is purity stripping back luxuries. there's a huge Butism Brutalism. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So Luther comes out against the uprisings and they get defeated. And so then after the uprising Luther So peace returns, that's when he marries Bor Bora and he starts a new church known as the Lutheran Church. So and the Lutheran Church it takes off in sweet like where's the Lutheran Church today? S Germy Scandinavia. Yeah We don't really seem to have Lutheran stuff here, We're Calvinists and we'll get into what that is next episode. But Lutheran is so part of the reason like Scandinavia is so kind of Always on a level You know I mean tem Yeah, temperate. Yeah. They're also they're more happy with a sense. they have a small sense of communalism the sort of rabid individualists of Britain and America. True. But so I got a Swedish friend. He said that the Swedish mindset is different. If you look at any society there's like You kind of can have two or three things, which is the sense of You're all together as one state, You're all together as one family and the individual right And I think in like Italy It's not as much about the state it's the family But basically in Sweden it's about the individual in the state. Your collective is a state but not your family Yes. So that's where they're kind of different is there. They have most of them live alone. they don't have like a big family sense, but they are collective as a state.ere We're fuckking the goverment, fuck the family.uck mum, fuck you k Fuck you, mum, fuck you k m, the fuck you city. Like that's us, right? Yeah. And America's even more so. Yes, ye, right So yeah, so Scandinia like social democracy in Scandinavia That's why I always find it funny when people are like,h, why can't Americans? likeike Wh why can't we just be like San a Nordic model? Yeah, you are different breeds of human.. You think differently. Yeah. Like you just comp two different times. It's never gonna happen. It's never gonna happen. No. So now Luther has set and trained the Reformation and we're going to carry on the Reformation story in next episode. But what happens to Luther is that he, I mean, much like Gandi, there's a sort of stock clock element to him in that he had this initial zealous sort of righteous anger It was very captivating and he was sort of this Peterson esque firebrand And then he keeps writing When it's similar to like if he died, then maybe he'd be revealred like Bill Hicks. M and M, if he died after his third, maybe fourth album, greatreatest rapper of all time, he lived to do maybe five more kind of quite mediocre albums and he's sort of diminishing his her a bit. If Bill Hicks hadn't died, he would just be Joe Rogan Light Yeahet, he's revered now. Yeah Yeahah, George Carlin's last five specials are pretty poor like Yeah, I mean the backkend was Yeah. But there's still some great stuff Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. so now this is all this is happening by the way, in the context of the Turks being very close to Christendom. We didn't should have said that last episode, but Part of the reason for Luther' success is that it feels like the end times because the church' so corrupt And the Muslim the Ottoman Turks was incrediblehing on Constantinople was that fourteen? Yeah, Constantinople have fell. fourteen some s So now he believes that the Ottoman Turks had been sent by God to punish Christians. Interesting to bring on an apocalypse Um After reading a Latin translation of the Quran Luther publishes several works on what he calls Mohammadanism Well that sounds like Britain first talking about what's happened to. Vadikistan's Mohammadanism.. He said Islam is a tool of the devil, not my words. Right. okay But which should be left mainly alone. Interesting. And he was against the ban on the Quran to allow it to be scrutinized. That is interesting What did he think about moderate man? What did he think about the berker? What did h what did leave it so we can scrutize it Yes. You should be allowed to make fun of it, because you should not ban it. That's what you What did Luther think about the burkini The Burini would be so many steps that would blow his He might actually find he pass pass a bel movement. He sees a woman in a burkini I quite like the burkini for men Right, Okaykay, gone. There were definitely periods of my life, you know such as when I was hovering behem wors. Like when I was hovering behind a roalson like Gavin Plum Okay, there was eras where I would have really liked a bikini to go swimming it For modesty. For modesty. Okay? becausecause I've said this I've said this before. the straightest man men there are They don't go topless ever. They wear skin tight wetsuits when they're in the pool They make them look more naked, but it's about modesty It's about giving their wife a chance I did not get letting other women who are not your wife That's for My disgusting flabby soft belly tor for my wife. It's not for these random tourists You know. I would have appreciated that You know, since the great stretching, since my person since my personal trainer. was hundred fifty four that was a great sk. The great skism was ten hundred fifty four. The great stretching. stretch was's about two thousand six. Right. Okay. Since the great stretching, since my since my personal training Ia has helped me get upstairs, I am now much more comfortable being topless in a pool environment But there were an era of my life where I would have very much very very greatly liked to burkini. So I have empathy for a younger self and for other young fat tailors about. I don't think Muslim women should wear I think Christian fatties should. Okaykay. That's my position in the bini. Anyway. So yeah, Luther's, but to be fair, I don't know how much when people are like, oh, we had complicated abuses on Muslims, everyone at the time has complicated abuse on Muslims now. Yeah. I mean, they're two entirely different world views, right? Are people trying to coucel Luther for No. what we're about to do what we're about to go through the fifteen hundreds, I don't if you can Yeah This This' not be like blood this is fucking Sxinistan uckingermute German In Stanley these day these days. You can't drive aroundound Saxony. Can't drive a fucking four transansit around Saxony now. G fucking Saria Ulez. No, he's not going on about that. But we get to probably his most controversial writings. He wrote several things about the Jews Which when you said about anyone, you think it's never going to be love letters, is it? Is there anyone who's like got some writings on the Jews? They've not fifty hundred. They've not no, just ever Anywhere anyone's ever written about the Jews Is it ever good? Okay. You what I mean, Is ever complimentary? Let's pull the bandaid off. What's he saying? He calls for the burning of all synagogues and to exile all Jews. Right. In his work entitledQote on the Jews and their lives. He was considered a moderate at the time. Yes, he's just got the searing clarity of Erl Musk So he targets the Anabaptists, which has later becomes the Amish and Catholics primarily anti Semitic work because Uh the Nazis . They referred to the work as one of the most quote radically anti Semitic things to be published ever. W They're saying that as if it's a good thing. Right But if they're saying that's anti semematic Thus B fucking chill out, mate. Christ, I mean I agree, but woof. And that's the Nazi partarty newspaper, which is called Desh Stumer, which is not kissed arrmour which I can already see, that'll be a riff that some people will comment on What wass k your sterma Ober Kommandan Kishstummer Anyway, so it was displayed in a glass case at the Nuremberg rallies. And that specific work was given to the editor of Des Sterma as a birthday present in nineteen thirty seven Much like, you know, there there are patreon members who send me Notim Mmorabilia that they stumbled. I do have alic. I do have them. I do have yes are you' coming into I am getting into was It was Mart in Ajar. It was Bob Yeah, I do there are some relics that I'm interested in, But again, this is, you know, it's like Protestant relics H World War I bullets and spent casings. because that's our religion. But I'll get onto this more, but I was listen to an industry podcast that was saying basically how This country's Protestantism has really died down in the last fifty, sixty years. Yeah to a point where it's blended a lot with Catholicism, right? It an to the point I think loads of fixtures of British life are becoming more Catholic in ways that there would have never been fifty years ago. For example, Pide Okay Pide When Princess Diana died. The outpouring of emotion. Yeah, the Yes. Deifying her as a saint, the relics Yes and all of the teapots, the teapots, all of that. that was catch very Catholic response. Cathol and wouldn't have happened fifty years earlier. No. So it's more that the Protestant philosophy is definitely dwindling a lot. Listen The whole mental health thing Therapy. Right? It' Catholic. It's confession for Protestants. Isn't it ooking. You go and talk to a box Cool orr whatever 's it's Protestant, you know, they're selling therapy as if it's some new thing. It's just it's just confession, isn't it Yeah, fuck But It's for people. But it's been done with a Freudian scientific background, so you feel more or right about it, exactly. It's not spiritual. No, no, but it's trying to unpack scientific. No Be because a Protestant has sinned from birth that's Luther says we're all it's impossible for us to get away out of sin, right So what a therapy what confession therapy does if it's confession is go Well, this is your original trauma This is your backstory. This is your childhood drama you didn't pass your anal st. origin story. Yeah, exactly. And so that is whereas a Catholic would go, oh yeah Today, A goousta woman And I'm sorry. And he goes, Yeah, you're free. And he goes, OkayK, brilliant, right, I'll probably do it again because he's not looking to be cured He's just looking for a past. And he's also like, I've been a fucking bad boy. There's a horniness to it. Yes. ye. It's like I've been beh the Catholic Catholic drama, you know, these things there's a cinematic nature, the veil between you and the b Yeah. and it's just like, I've sinned father. how are you going punish me for being such a Boy and they do. Yeah they do. And there's a lot lot of there's a lot of institutionalized pedophilia in the Catholic Catholic Church. Is that Yes. But the way you were talking about it was that you' sort of victim blading and going, I've been a bad boy U so Yeah, anyway, yes, you're right. Princess Diana's the grief was yeah. It's a Catholic response? It is. The country is she's British. What are you doing A name wasn't fucking Diano He also talks about What he wants to happen to the Jews is the m all to be burned He is sort of thinking about the Holocaust at a time before that's even a thing Yeah, it's a very modern thinker And Hitler basically You know, because Hitler' trying to create, as we said in the last episode, a Germany that is U like feels like a country more than it is. because when Hitler is in power in Germany, Germany is forty years old, some like fifty years old He's tried to tie Luther into the German story And Luther's basically sort of like firing out ideas for a he's firing a lot out. He is He's not firing a lot of shit out, That's the problem. No a lot of ideas, but But yeah, so he still He lays the intellectual seeds for Hitler Hitless an seemitism U anyway And this is your favorourite guy ever, right? I think this is the greatest man ever. Yeah. ye. The proto header who can who In nineteen thirty three, the Nazis celebrated quote German Luther Day to link the Protestant Reformation with the Nazi Revolution But you' snooking me there Babbey you' snuaked me All right? You've got me you've got me. a three with two beautiful women It's Luther and Hitler Rock hard place. I couldn't choose between them Y. U Why can't we allarry other as the three but so Nazis were not a religious movement though and they didn't tie religion in that much. No but As Tom Holland says, on our disabled sister podcast. Yeah. or rather are able bodies to supportc us. Luther's train of thought leads to Um Atheism Yes Because if your own relationship with God is that you think it's Bllocks, but that's what you think and that's your conscience, then that's the most important thing. Yeah. So you think it's Bllocks. The logical endpoint of the Reformation is atheism. It's reallyick dramatic Be ye and that's why there's more Protestant countries are far more atheists than Catholic countries and eventually why olicism will far outlast the Protestant revolution in a thousand years time, I suspect. You say that, but Ireland is essentially Protestant now. I mean, Gave you get married and And you know, you can't kill babies. That's a small country though If you think about the power of the Pope, what even is Irden now You can kill babies I mean, what's going on? Yeah, you know I guess so.. I mean Ireland's one example, but I think Because Protestantism it breaks off into these small little sect sects. thoseose sects don't have the history and tradition and the staying power that the Catholic Church does. Now when you have the new election of the pope and there's the celebration of the thousands years history, it's a church that thinks in centuries, not in decades I think as a through line to the past that's made it so strong, whereereas what you got Armish, you got Methodists, you got like this is all sort of fading away and also People have lost conviction because there's no rituals or tradition in these churches. It's about your own relationship. It's just therapy now, isn't it?'s justrap So you don't need God anymore with the Protestantism. No. You don't really need him because you'restantly it's a constant act of stripping away things that corrupt your relationship with God, get rid of all the stained glass windows, get rid of all of that And eventually it's like You as well get rid of go. exactly. get R rid of everything. come off But because there's no rituals, it doesn't have the cense tradition and I think eventually that will mean The Protestant countries would just be atheist and the Catholic censrition walls maintain still exist longer But they're also probably going to outbade us I love this. They will not love level of like right wing where it's like it's great to about Catholics. Catholics.'s not even It's about the wrong type of white. That's how niche it is. It's white on white violence and we must fight back against the Catholic menace. a great replacement. He He thinks priests, to be fair to him Again, he's he's thinking of the Holocaust before that's even a thing. Okay. He thinks all Catholic priests are Soldomites again This man is a prophet. He writ getting visions on the toilet. He is. he's psychedically conicipated. Yeah he is. He's putting so hard that he's on mushrooms, right. He writes that cardinals are trying, quote, not to keep as many boys in the future, but that it was well known how openly and shamelessly the Pope and cardinals in Rome Pactice sodomy. Fuck can cook King down. He's firing off warnings five hundred years ago. Shit. All right? It's an open secret. It's an open secret L I mean, how much more of open can you get as an open secret? Yeah. So Martin Luther ultimately dies in fifteen forty six And one of his final words that he says to his wife It is beautiful this one. This is beautiful Yeah. And this is think because he's a great writer. He is and he's anequent man. And he's, you know he's very aicular and this is his final words, quote I'm like a ripe stool and the world's like a gigantic anus And so we're about to let go of each other Listen, guysly st Guys, Protestant poetry's not good All right I've never said it is I don't understand poetry, okay because I'm Potestant Protestants can't handle subtext. I actually disagree with you on that though. because Protestant Where it is good is non visual art because It's not about the aesthetics, Catholic art. I doing a pool on the floor. Yeah' Potestant art. but it's not just that. it's all about literacy and reading the Bible.. They're more literate cultures and more poetic cultures, the Protestant cultures because America, Britain U Scandinavia, these are it's are more about the written words Yes, as opposed to when you go tradition more as opposed to going to a church, hearing Latin and seeing these beautiful images, which leads to a more visual culture. Yes. So I'd say that's actually a split You try and say it as beautifully as you can. Like how could he say it in the How can he polish the third of that is his final words say is kind of So as as death emphatically as you possibly can In a German accent? Yeah I'm like ripe stool and the fld like a gigantic ilus. so they' aboutow to let go of each other. It's romantic. It is romantic This is again, this is a Protestant man trying to be romantic. but it it just seems like he's You've been trying to have one ship for thirty years. It feels like He knows that finally he's going to have that shit and he will leave this mortal coil. This is like the end of his Now he's done that poo His job here is done. My work is done. Yeah rather than saying rather than saying I think you should give that to a min. goes my work here is done. I mean he just dies S Hecends to heaven G what have you found Charlie R? The longest anyone's gone without puring is forty five days from twenty thirteen involving a twenty eight year old woman. Where's she from? She is from the of England. Really? North of England? Yeah. That's beautiful, isn't it? That's good stuff. These severe instances often require surgical intervention for quote fecal mass remo. Do you have a fucking cesarean price C section for a purers, you've really you've really lost life, I would say I don't think look, I don't I don't want to die, shame anyone, you know, up' into my own struggles But if you're having to have an elective C section for a poo, you're a fucking idiot All right you really Yeah, and you should be ashamed that you've had to put the doctors through that because these surgeons should How am I paying for that on the NHA? mean That's an argument for private healthcare Chrice Pooper, pooper Jesus Christ, awful So Luther dies with his touching glass words about how he's finally going to have a cloth. Have a poo I believed he maybe died a stroke or heart attack. He lived ' sixty two, which was pretty old pretty good innings for fifteen forty six. Now the Reformation that he set in trarail carries on And But in fifteen fifty five, a fragile peace is signed Peace of Augsburg And this is an attempt to prevent more religious conflict between Catholics and Lutherans. It formally divides the Holy Roman Empire into Catholic and Lutheran states, and it's the first time where we ever say, hey There's a Latin phrase for it, but it's your state, your religion. So you practice Re Rid and you want. So if you live in Bavaria and your prinince is Catholic, You'reatholic That's whyath in your head. Do you think Germany is a Protestant country Well it is, but it has these southern it's Catholics and there. That's because of this, right The crucial problem with the Piece of Augsburg is that it does not recognize Calvinism.. What is Calvinism You think Luther was boring andy In our next episode, we're going to get into my intellectual air orr rather I'm the intellectual heir of him, My ancestors John Calvin And John Knox the Presbyterian. the headad of the fun, police. These guys are the Christian Iranian morality police Right of which I am a member. okay That's in our next episode. Now the rest of the other two episodes of this series are on the patreon already. Patrons will be able to get access to that now. for three pounds a month, we are the biggest in the country. Come on. Extraordinary. that Absolutelyraordinary. We beat Hamas and we are hurtling towards the Taliban. We are going to take on the Taliban. The Taliban I think what was again, I believe active fighters ninety thousand big It's big g We've got to aim high. We may have to have an alliance with Buried Hamas. We have buried Hamas. We've solved that actually Yeah And their memberships going down, I feel. I think it is. Yeah. while was going up. Now now do you think that's because we are getting active management? No's o core let's get core fighters. As of early twenty to twenty six Right, But that's a takeover strength. They think they to be fair, they are getting bigger Taliban. It's going to be tough. So way We're getting bigger, right? So let's just say one hundred fifty thousand Taliban fighters. Okay guys, we are are project let's say project twenty thirty six, okay And to celebrate, as soon as we puse one hundred fifty thousand, we are retaking back'reaking We're taking a couple. All us together Yeah All of us we're going take We can take them. M for man, we can take them. So sign up to the patreon, which will be seen as joining the draft to take on Kabal. And we are going to implement a regime that is even worse for Afghan women That's on the patreon enjoy that. But if not we'll see you next time for a deep dive on Calvin Bye. bye bye