From Online Fantasy to Real Life

Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of On Fantasy early and ad free Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple podcasts Good to know that serervice works down here. Hi, how are you? Where are you I'm in the Bahamas What? My friend. Gracie was poolside when we got on the phone in July of last year for one of our semi regular check ins I wasn't trying to interrupt Gracy's vacation with a boring work call, but she had just told me over Slack that she had something to share about a crazy interaction she'd had on onlynly fans Basically what happened is I get a new subscriber And I message them and I'm like, hey person, what brings you here? And they go Well, I'm in recovery for breast cancer and the wife of a subscriber So I came here to like See like what it's all about And this guy is busted And she is definitely pissed and ye this sounded stressful I figured how bad can it be In all likelihood, this lady's husband was just a random subscriber that Gracie wouldn't know from Adam I didn't know who was at first. I was like, oh, I don't know who your partner is, blah blah blah. And they were like, It's this person And I was like, holy shit This is probably the person I know the best on here Oh wow Yeah, Wow. Yeah. so Gracie is not naive She knows that some of her subscribers have romantic partners in their lives There's one study of only fan subscribers, not peer reviewed admittedly that suggested almost ninety percent of them are married. Gracy was not aware that this particular guy was spoken for I also don't have a habit of asking that. Like I'm like, tellell me a little bit more about yourself and it's like your job or what you do for fun. It's never like T me your L like, I'm not here to remind anyone of their wife and kids Gracie told me that she had felt a special bond with a subscriber It was mostly a friendship. be it one that he would occasionally steer into the realm of romantic and sexual fantasy be like we're having wine in a French chateau. And I would be like, describing the date and then we got to the lake and we have like Dack's in the lake But then it would immediately, it could immediately flip back to like, Hey, I hope your comedy tour is going well This really collaborative fan fiction is how that. Yes. Yeah, exactly exactly. And then I would kind of like I would be like, oh my go, that's so hot, blah, blah, blah, whichich I wasn't lying about. I was like, yeah, gu guys's good at this And it's fun. It felt very innocent, you know. A great example of my relationship with him is we would be sexting and then the next day I would post like, oh, I'm sick in bed and he would send me a tip and be like, Go get sup You know, so And I think that's understandably what his partner is very upset with You know, she even said she was like, It'd be one thing if he was just jacking after porn hub but he's now spending time, money and energy on you And that's a hard pill to swallow Um Yeah Gracy was clearly rattled sure I would have been too if I were in her shoes But I was curious, did she feel responsible Guilty even? Okay, here's the thing. I don't feel guilty because I had no knowledge of this, even if I did, it's not my problem. My first instinct was to stay neutral Like my mantra in life is no sudden movements Like see, what's up? Does this person want to confront you? Do they want to blame you? Do they want to divorce or hus? Like what's up? But I did feel like very sympathetic And I said, wow, I can only imagine how tough that is. I'm really happy to hear you're in recovery. And then I just said, how are you feeling about everything you know, she goes, I respect it for sure. She goes, you're funny and and a stunner. so I get the combo and I'm just deciding how to feel about all this new information Did any part of you think like I should just not. Engage on this sl. Yeah I think if it had been like You're a whore and a home wrecker and blah blah, blah I would not have engaged. But I think because she immediately off the bat sounded curious. Mature. And very gentle My first instinct was to comfort her. I was like, if this will take me like two minutes to send these messages And if I can tell her, hey, no, we've never met up. We've never even video chatted or called. if I can kind of help her. And then once it started being like Oh, hey, I have more specific questions and can you like give me pointers on how to spice things up. And who better to teach me than like his fantasy girlfriend? And I was like, okay, hun This fucking socks Like my heart really went out to her I was like, look The most gentle thing I can offer is this is very much his problem And women, like we have a tendency to bear the burden of things that like are not on us But Yeah. and then she just said, than you, heart. And then he's since unfollowed me and And. Yeah, I was gonna to block both of them, but then he wasn't there to block And it feels weird that I'm not in contact with him anymore, E though I am like the last person to be worried about in this situation, obviously way higher stakes, but it does feel weird. Like I'm wondering, oh my God, I hope they're okay. Like I hope they're working through it. The thing you said to her at the end about how like this is his problem When you say Pabm, are you talking about the fact that he wants this or needs this or the fact that he was dishonest about it with her. that he was dishonest. And she did mention in her correspondence, she was like I'm really pissed because obviously like she's going through fucking cancer. She mentions, I don't feel very sexy right now U And so she point blank asked him if he had had any interest in anyone else, if he needed anything else, and he flat out denied it. That was something she recounted to you in one of her messages. Yes. She said I'm like the most upset about the dishonesty because I'm an open book with this person. So I understand that anger of being like, hey, I'm open, I'm flexible I want us to work. I'm giving you every chance and you So it almost makes me think it's like You men need A secret to feel excited. You know, it's like It's like Would this have been as comforting or as titillating to him. if he had been open about it with his wife Qion really struck me As I've mentioned, I'm a married man, and I confess I do love having a little secret If you listen to my old podcast, backfired, the vaping wars There's a whole subplot about my addiction to nicotine, and some part of the allure for me in cigarettes and vaping that I would often do it in private It was a dirty little habit It was my dirty little habit And even now, I still gravitate toward those hidden spaces burner account on Reddit A late night at a blackjack table in Vegas when all my friends have gone to bed It makes me wonder whether On Fans is less about sex and less about these pseudo girlfriend experiences and more about that pocket of privacy place where you get to be a version of yourself that you don't show to anyone else Everyone has that version of themselves The curious one, the lonely one, The I miss who I used to be one precious and it may not mix well with who we are now on the outside, at work, at holiday parties, at church Sometimes the only safe place to let that person out is online But when that online self starts feeling more vivid than your actual life What does that say about what we're really looking for? Why do the lives we lead on the internet sometimes feel truer, more exciting, or more alive than the ones we lead in daylight This is only fantasy Episode three Flirty littleittle secrets Whether you're exploring your fascinations or discovering new ones, Audaible has stories that will introduce you to your most fascinating self. Tap into a whole new world of heated conversations with a saucy romantasy series. Know how true the latest blockbuster movie stayed to the sci fi story it was based on, or find unexpected reveals through an exclusive trrue Crime podcast However you listen, audible keeps you fascinated so you can be just as fascinating. Select any audio book every month, plus exclusive podcasts. pllans now start at eight dollars ninety nine cents. Audible. Be fascinated, be fascinating I'm Raza Jeoffrey, and in the new season of The Spy Who, we go back in time to meet Benedict Arnold, the spy who betrayed the American Revolution As America fights for freedom from Britain, Arnold emerges as one of the rebel's greatest generals But when his loyalty is pushed to the limit, he turns spy and devises a plot to shatter the rebellion and make George Washington a prisoner. Follow the Spy who now, wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also listen to the full season of the spy who betrayed the American Revolution early and at free on Aud Thanks for coming all the way from whereere'd you come from today? Today I was in Encino shooting in Seno The day before we dropped into the creator's Ink house last summer, Leon Sam and I visited a recording studio in a strip mall in Burbank, California to talk to porn star and only fans creator, Rachel Steele. Rachel's got stunning green eyes, a full head of auburn hair and a voluptuous figure I can only hope to look that good when I hit my sixties I asked her how her day of work, AKA having sex on camera, went. Can we be honest Please So I worked with a new talent today, a new male talent That was recommended to me by another woman in the industry who has a large following. So I just herer word that this person would be fine And he couldn't perform So I drove forty five minutes to an hour to get there, got up really early, did hair and makeup. clothing and outfits paid the photographer And yeah, he could not to forform. Yeah So other than that, it's a beautiful day and you know, this is part of the job occupational hazard Yes Rachel Steele, like so many of the creators we've talked to, has been on On fans since the pandemic. But her path to it stretches back to a distinctly pre only fans' era of online sex work Rachel kind of stumbled into the porn industry, as one does In two thousand five, she was in her forties, running a hair salon in Tampa, Florida, and happily married In true Florida fashion, Rachel and her husband, Mike love to unwind by hanging out by their backyard pool we were just out there on a hot day uh, drinking margaritas and I was all buzzed up and feeling fun and funny. so I just jumped in the pool and I jumped out and I'm like, look, look, wet t shirt contest. Oo, I'm Boderic. Hello, take a picture. So he did. He started snapping pictures. and then a couple days later, he said, you know, those pictures we took by the pool actually came out pretty good The pictures were so good that Mike ended up submitting them to an online contest looking for America's hottest wives Rachel wons something like six hundred dollars She thought, well, hell, this is easy. Can I take more pictures by the pool and make another six hundred bucks She went back online and discovered a whole world of websites devoted to hot wives and mature women She also found out that there were a growing number of webcam sites where men could pay money to see women get naked on camera a sort of virtual peep show. This was the early two thousands, and at the time, camming was a new and burgeoning business. Hey, this is one of those dirty websites! Scantily clad cos When you little Rachel wound up connecting with the Webmaster for a UK based campsite, and he helped her get set up as a camgirl The first step was picking a stage name. I said, what about Rachel? but I don't know about the last name. And he said, you have nice, strong, hard abs. Why not just steal Abs of steel, Rachel Steel And I was like, o, I love that. So that was it, that's how Rachel Steele was born. Superwoman vibes, for sure When Rachel Steele made her online debut, the campsite she was on was relatively straightforward Rachel's image appeared on a homepage as a thumbnail with a lineup of other women that men could choose from. Rachel would log on Click a button that said, I'm available, and a green icon would show up next to her name Almost like a taxi cab on duty sign And like a cab driver, Rachel would sit and wait for a fare. And it was ten minutes, thirty five dollars if you want sound which I don't understand why they wouldn't, but some chose no sound Then it was forty five dollars. And that was it. You get a ten minute session and if they want another session, it would be double that was very basic and simple and easy Once a customer paid, they could enter her virtual room for a one on one session, she'd start with a quick conversation, a sort of consult, much like she would do with the hair salon What do you want to see today? What can I do for you today U and then they would tell me and then I would just play out play out whatever it is their fantasy was. This is something I should know. Cams one or two ways. That's another choice. That's another choice that you both have. Most of them wanted it off They didn't want me to see them you know, back then too, I feel like there was a lot of shame because I remember people just in the dark hiding and telling me their kinks, their fetishes, and just being very shamed about it One was into food He would say, what's in your fridge? and I'm like, you know what's in my fridge. Just tell me what you want me to go get And then he would tell me mayonnaise, mustard, ketchup Pickles, cucumbers Whatever. Do you have any chocolate sauce? And I was doing this all in my husband's office corporate office. He was a retired marine square peg as can be. And I'm in there with a rubber sheet on the floor squirting maple syrup all over me U You know, with a dildough and a cucumber and mustard and mayonnaise all over me, I would do him at the very end of the day because I'm like, this is too messy I have to take a shower I not to mess up my hair and my makeup. So you're at five thirty. 'ause I can't go to my next appointment with tatchch it in my hair. Exactly, exactly. everybody' Cink. So Rachel quickly learned there's no such thing as average or normal. When someone new logged on, she was never quite sure what they'd ask her to do. She just had to roll with the punches And there was other fetishes like foot fetish, shoe fetish Um Probably one of the craziest ones to date be the scuba gear. You would probably think the craziest one is going to be something so sexual And this is not. it's he's like, do you have Scubpa gear and my husband was a diver. I'm like, I do. It's right in the closet. I'm looking right at it right now. What do you want me to put on? He's like flippers, masks The snorkel thing So I put it on and then I would sit in the chair and pretend that I'm underwater, just like move my arms around and like make motions with my mouth that I'm like underwater That would be a ten minute show and he would just masturbate to that That I've never heard of anything like that. I've heard of a lot of kinks. Yeah. and that is Awesome. yep. Every single one is different. Everyone has their own little thumbprint Rachel learned a lot about the variety of sexual fantasies out there. But she didn't learn a lot about the personal lives of the men she performed for There was a ticking clock If they paid for ten minutes, the camera would automatically go off after ten minutes There wasn't a lot of time for small talk And yet, for Rachel, all those little peaks behind the curtain added up Did you kind of get anything obviously more than money out of those kind of connections where it's like, oh I know you and they're like, Where did that feel? I loved it. I was laughing and happy like It was like a little kid playing dress up You know, with a chest full of clothes And then I'm like, I never know what's going to what's going to come next. I loved it. and I felt good because People would quickly say at the end of sessions sometimes, you know, it feels so good to be able to do this. I've been so shamed all my life. I'm kink shamed or I'm in a very vanilla marriage and there's no way my wife would ever play like this with me. So I was like, wow, I'm really helping people. L there's a lot of people are feeling really good after these sessions and I literally helped them mentally, emotionally, spiritually, you know, and it was making me feel good too, to be able to help like that Rachel eventually set up a camera in the corner of the office and started recording herself doing the live webcam sessions She found a site called clipsforsale dot com where she could upload and sell these videos direct to consumers This was when Rachel learned that she fit a well known and lucrative niche in the porn world Mbe you've heard of I cannot not believe a fun woman like this produced a guy like Stiffer. D some milk. Hell's that? M I LF. Mom, I'd like to fuck. Yeah Oh ye The word milf was popularized in nineteen ninety nine thanks to the movie, American Pie In porn terms, milph doesn't necessarily mean an actual mom. It refers to an actress who reads on the screen as a mature older woman. So, you know, anyone over thirty, which includes me, Gulp In a savvy marketing move by Rachel, she realized she could basically keep making the exact same content, but put the word milth in front of every title, and it would get a lot more traction. Milph wears heels, Milf's feet milk, I put milk in front of everything and Um that was it. That was my label So milk scuba yes Maybe this is common knowledge, after all, milf was the number two most searched term on porn hub last year. But I personally was shocked to learn from Rachel that a lot of milk porn is often about Forgive me incest play The male actors in these videos are usually young enough to be their co stars' sons And in fact, in many cases, that's who they're supposed to be playing, even though they're often billed as the stepson or the student to avoid rules against portraying actual incest on screen Were you surprised that there was a market for that? Like is it that that fantasy was widespread enough that they could be Yeah mostostly because it's not really my fantasy. It's not like what I fantasize about. so U It's always a little surprising when people tell you, you know, their are fantasies and then it's huge. And to this day, it's like MilF is one of the number one searched Um, genres out there as Rachel embraced her newfound status as a milf. She also started incorporating her husband into some of the videos She had to make sure he didn't talk too much or show his face so that people didn't see how old he really was Eventually, he got tired of it So, Rachel found other partners and started making real deal pornos that she produced and wrote herself Can you tell us about some of the early storylines that you had success with Yeah, there was one called Breakfast Fuck And since then I've done What happens to that one? Well,'s a long story. If you want to know what happens in brereakfast Fuck, you can still find the nine minute video for eleven ninety nine cents on clipsf saale d. com along with the Breakfast Fuck sequel, and a host of other brilliantly titled content. Below job for college bound stepsun Beauty and the Monster. that was actually an alien porn Wding milf Um Come in my shoes, slave boy That's my favorite. Milk mayhem Trorturing my boy toy Oh, one of my favorites, Leave it to my beaver If you couldn't tell before, I was pretty flabbergasted by the whole incest thing. And I couldn't help but press Rachel on what exactly is going on with the guys who are into it Were you were you, um, att first skeptical of the people who wanted this where you're like, youw, you want to Fuck your mom No, because Early on in the cam days, there was a couple of guys that did say stuff about mom and Mommy U and they would explain to me, you know, this is not because I think about my actual mom, it's just part of my fantasy like And then I just you know put it all together and realize that it's just older woman, younger man. they like the age gap. There's all kinds of different little parts of it. It's a little complex 'ause I think like yeah, I mean it does strike me as one of as a fetish that peopleeople would keep secret because they would be scared for people to find out that they want that. I think it's because the inference that most people would make is like you want this because you have sexual feelings for your mother. Yeah. And that as you say, that is definition of taboo, right? Yeah yeah. And but it's sad because if you say daddy, I like daddy stuff. I like daddy porn. I like You know, that's okay. But when it's mommy, it's something's up Maybe Rachel isn't exactly on my same quest to save men, but it's clear that she feels connecting with her fans and accepting their unique kinks and desires is about more than just servicing one individual's need It is, in a small way, for the greater good You know, I feel like that helps. society as a whole, if people can be who they are and without harming anyone in the process. you have happier individuals walking aroundead of angry individuals that are suppressing everything and keeping things in and feeling It can really mess with you mentally if you don't feel like you fit And if you have these thoughts and kinks and desires and fantasies and Everyone's telling you you're sick. You know How are you in society? So we just need to have more acceptance. And that's just not happening today you know, trans community everything.s it's just We're like going backwards. We're going backwards to the leave it to my Beaver days. and Just not good. Way more leave it, way less beaver. Exactly. So Gracie, I feel like I was judgy enough in that interview about other people's porn preferences here that I should confess that I two have looked at porn on the internet? Oh, really? I thought you were the only one who abstained. This is shocking information. I know, I know sad No, I actually remember very distinctly the first time I saw porn. It was probably when I was in fourth or fifth grade. I remember I was at a family friend's house. My mom's friend had a son who was a little older than me and he took me upstairs to his room while our parents were hanging out And on the very same day he showed me porn and also EBay. Wow. Those are both highly addictive. That's a lot for one day. L your life would never be the same again. Truly, truly And so yeah, I just remember the video he showed me, which I don't know, I guess he had downloaded from somewhere And it was just like an extreme close up of a penis going into an out of a vagina. That does not sound sexy. It sounds like a nature documentary. It really was. It almost looked like a hydraulic pump or something. I did not find it particularly erotic or alluring. Though I suppose I was kind of morbidly intrigued It wasn't until later on and I don't remember exactly when this happened, but I did eventually start looking at porn on my own time, I guess you could say. And I was finally like, okay, yeah, I'm interested in this. So what were you into So My most vivid memory that I still carry around is of a cam girl who, as far as I can tell was not a porn star. she wasn't famous exactly, but she was a professional internet personality. a proto influener Iess you could say who also got naked on camera And I honestly still remember so much about her to this day She had like bleached blonde hair uh she was kind of a little hot topic. She wore like chunky necklaces and bandn t shirts. and she would wear her pigtails up really high up on her head. H, Spacetails. Yeah, Spacetails means you go to Wp Tour. Yes, okay, that checks out What was your name Her name was Sonny. no last name as far as I knew at the time then we started working on this podcast together, Gracie, and I looked her up. And I got her email address and her phone number and I called her Blast from the past What did you want to do on there? Like what did you want to show the world What was your? goal or your dream or what were you imagining I didn't have a goal or a dream I honestly didn't I knew I was going to be naked Whether you are exploring your current fascinations or discovering new ones, Aawell has all the stories that willll introduce you to your most fascinating self. tap into a whole new world of heated conversations with a saucy romantasy series. beccome your friend group's sci fi expert on the latest blockbuster book to screen adaptation Or find unexpected reveals through the exclusive episodes of a viral true crime podcast. However you choose to listen, Audible keeps you fascinated, so you can be just as fascinating. All in one easy app, with plans now starting at eightll ninety nine cents, you'll get access to over one million audioob books and podcasts, including trending bestestsellers the hottest new releases and exclusive podcasts you won't find anywhere else. Sign up now to become a member and get any audio book every month Plus exclusive podcasts. plans now start at eight ninety nine cents. Be fascinated, be fascinating. I'm Raza Jeffrey, and in the new season of The Spy Wh open the file on Benedict Arnold The spy who betrayed the American Revolution America is fighting to free itself from the British Empire, and one of its foremost generals is Benedict Ar He's a smuggler turned battlefield hero and admired for his aggressive tactics But when a war wound A new wife, debts and politics test his loyalty to the Max He turns spy. and devises a plot to shatter the revolution and help Britain capture rebel commommander in chief, General George Washington And that plot would make him the most infamous traitor in US history Follow the Sy whoo now, wherever you listen to podcasts You can also listen to the full season of the spy who betrayed the American Revolution, Ely and ad free on the Audible I submitted my first newuds ever on the internet Um, taken with an analog camera. and scanned to this website and I made number one really quickly And I was like, that's cool. That's awesome. I'm fucking cool. A'm not cool on the internet? This is cool. I love this That is Sunny Critten. onene of the first women I ever had a crush on from the internet This was ratee New. com This was before hardard ornot. com And you submitted naked pictures to it, they would post your pictures and people would basically just rate you one to ten And the person who got the most tenens was at the top of the list and then it went down Sunny lived in an apartment above her mom's wallpaper store in Canada She didn't have a job and was on welfare Her world was small She did have a computer, and she used it to tap into a much larger world via the internet. On Rpe Me Nude, she felt like a star At least at first I wake up one day and all of a sudden, I'm like number twenty. Like I just dropped twenty places and I'm like, oh my Godd, what the fuck happened? Like overnight Looking at the girls who had knocked her off from the number one spot Sonny noticed they all had something in common. There's all these women that have style projects written on their bodies in eyeliner or Sharpie. They all seem to be associated with something called the Styyle proroject. style spelled in the creepiest possible way, S T I L E. I amm like, what the fuck is style project Pretty soon Sonny realized that there was this portal that she could step through corner of the internet that really intrigued her. So I loaded up the portal and realized what it was and thought it was the coolest thing I'd ever seen in my life. And I made it my mission to be asked to be on it. Gracy, I don't know if you can picture this, but the style proroject Cam portal featured six cam girls at a time. So three on top, three on bottom. Okay, so kind of like Brady Bunch style? Yeah, exactly. That's also how Sonny put it When the webpage reloaded, they would each have a new picture of what was happening, you know, quote unquote live What was so cool about it to you What was so cool about it was that they were all people my age from all around North America and the UK and Australia and New Zealand Um And We all had this connection, this like internet nerd connection, but they got to be visible Lake They were elevated above anybody else on the internet because their faces were right there. You know, and their personalities were right there on full display, almost like a TV. And I wanted that better or for worse. becoming a fixture in the Styyle Project chatroom and befriending the site's founder Sunny got herself a slot in the portal and she started posting This was a few years before Rachel Steeel started camming And the crazy thing to keep in mind here is that it was also long before streaming video the webcam Sonny was using and that everyone on Stle project was using, was just taking still photos There was no streaming and there was no audio when I first started Hm It was just still images. uploaded every thirty seconds to a web page that was also Refreshing every thirty seconds We were there to show off, like we were there to be exhibitionists And nudity was part of that It just reminded me of Burlesque Like we were there, we were naked, we were beautiful, but we were also funny and entertaining, like May West Like what I saw what I was doing is like being a stripper or like a digital stripper, but without the dancing A yes, digital stripping. or as I called it, when I went from dancing, IRL to only fans, sex working from home. You can be pantseless for both. Right U Well, for Sunny, it was kind of perfect. She really liked being a digital stripper I kind of felt like it was for calling, especially as she built this community around herself first on Syle project and then later on a website called camhoreors. com, which I confess is probably where I first encountered her Suddenly I felt popular for the first time in my life. Like I'm an only child So I mean, I am a very solitary independent person and I am not used to having pay attention to me at all. and Pretty much since I got to the internet, I've realized people have treated me special which is a weird feeling. And I don't know how to describe it other than feeling special, like Like if I were to visit somebody's state. One of my one of my audience members say I was to go on a book tour I could probably stay at people's houses on every single stop without problem and they would treat me like a queen. and they would treat me special They wouldn't treat me just like anybody else or just like another friend or like somebody they're doing a favor for. I would be an honored guest And that was a weird feeling and still is a weird feeling It's so funny because today's digital strippers, whether they're on campsites, only fans, whatever, like They're there because it can be lucrative. You know, if it's not their job, it's their side hustle. But the way Sonny describes it, like she was in it for the love of the game. You know, She felt like the front woman of a cool indie band with cultty groupies or something. Totally. That's what I picture also Especially because Sonny's internet groupies weren't limited to Syle project or cam hores She also had a live journal where she would post every day, like the equivalent of a book a month of You know, just extremely raw, often funny confessional memoir about her childhood and various struggles she went through growing up And I think that live journal was a big part of the appeal for a lot of her fans, including even me to some extent Like I thought she was hot, but more importantly I thought she seemed ool You know, she sort of made me feel the way multiple girls in real life had made me feel, which was like She knows something I don't. and wantant to know. Kind of like girls you might have known at school, but would never dare approach. Yeah, exactly So even with Sunny, I was just a kid lurking and looking at her photos like didn't even ocur to me approach her or send her an email. curious when I talked to her as an adult about the people who did do that. like Who were these men who actually reached out and had a parasocial relationship with her And what were they getting out of it? Are you familiar with the daddy stereotype in the kink sense No. Okay. bigigger conversation Daddy is Usually a man Usually an older man who sees a young girl potential in her and wants to nurture that potential to build her into the ideal person There's men who fit that stereotype And a lot of them are the people who watch camgirls Interesting. And so how would And so how would they express all that to you? So when I started, I was in college and I was going to school to be a copywriter And one of my final projects was to do an ad campaign for Joan Soda And so I had several men that were watching my webcam at the time send me very expensive Joones Soda merch from their website Like all this expensive stuff, but it was all to help me do better in school and do better with my presentation And that's what I mean by they want to help you do well because somehow it's It's a reflection on them that they picked a winner, if that makes sense. No. they they put their money on the b on the right horse. I have a really complicated relationship with all of my father figures and I respond well to positive male attention I find it very motivating And so I respond to the daddy person very well So I was all that it Pick me, pick me So Leon, I am happy to report that these daddies are still alive and well. I'm lucky enough to have a handful of my own on my only fans page. They're kind of gracious folk who send me extra tips simply because they're invest in my life. Like they know the latest drama, they can see that I've had a bad day. They want to celebrate something with me. When they can contribute to that, I think they feel like they're a part of something And that, I've been told, gives them a certain kind of satisfaction Yeah, I can see that. though, there is another aspect of Sonny's experience, Gracie that I think you'll relate to, which is that She told me that almost all of the men who followed her and interacted with her on cam horors were married. Ah, yes, those people are also alive and well made me very aware of the fact that marriage probably doesn't work for anybody Be they were all married almost And with the exception of one The wives didn't know about it. And I thought that was shitty And so what was your inference of like what was goingone on there I just think people get married for the wrong reasons, usually Usually because it's societal pressure more than the fact that they actually should or want to Um, And nothing is more evident in that belief than the camer world because like Well, the husbands sitting there talking to a camergirl on the computer or on his phone The wife's sitting there knitting a blanket oblivious And he's totally talking dirty You know? And that happens so much. Or worse he's spending her money on the camergirl I've seen that happen a lot too. that you feel like like something was missing from these ben's lives that they were getting from you Yeah, probably Like most of them were middle aged. and had kids of their own. um, younger than me usually. But They just didn't connect with their wives. L their wives were grown up women and we were girls You know? If that makes sense That's what they wanted. Yeah And it's not that we were young becausecause not all of us necessarily were. I mean I was I was an adult Um It's just that we were young at heart and they are also young at heart and It's hard to find other people who are young at heart at that age. without feeling foolish I think I reminded them of the girl that they had a crush on in high school And They were reliving that feeling A lot of them Um And a lot of them just Their wives weren't that girl anymore She was now, you know, ten, twenty years older She's who I am now, you know I understood exactly what Sonny was talking about. Sure, people are driven to only fans for the sexual taboo, the newness, that titillating secrecy But there's a handful of subscribers I've chatted with on my page who seem almost nostalgic Like they want to time travel back to a time before they made all those safe and practical decisions Their secret digital lives with Camgirls or On fans creators are about more than just boobs. They're about rediscovering butterflies. Well, when you put it that way, it almost sounds innocent, though. You gotta imagine the wives in this equation wouldn't see it that way surprised me about Sonny's take on this was that she It really didn't sound like she was looking down on these married men. I wonder if it's in part because their attention and their devotion was Fun for her too. L Cracy, you seem like you've gotten butterflies yourself doing only fans. and It occurs me that we focus so much on the secret lives of subscribers It stands to reason that for a lot of On fans creators and camgirls Engaging with these guys is a way to get something that they can't get in real life either Like by the time Sonny started streaming actual video on cam horrors in two thousand five She had a second child and a husband and all kinds of responsibilities And streaming, I think was an escape from that. I had just moved into my first house, which is still this house that I'm in now and, um I I have my own carport, like the room I'm in now is like carport that's been changed into like an actual room So it's like an extra room off the side of my house and it's got doors so it's completely contained. And so I would do my camming in here after my kids went to bed The door closed and'd always solow, never with my husband Sounds so lonely Yeah, I think it was The thing about a virtual life is That it's virt How did having this following in this pretty active community of fans and admirers How did it affect your social life in the real world. I became agoraphobic and didn't have one like I didn't have a real life friend. of this loan No, they're all internet friends. I had one real life friend, maybe two, three in the last twenty five years Um, Maybe up until four years ago It was you and far between, they're all internet people My whole world just became the internet Like I only left my house for doctors and dentist appointments There was it got to the point where one of my internet friends, one of the people that has been reading my life journal since forever paid for me to get a subscription to the Toronto Star newewspaper so that I would have an excuse to walk to the end of my driveway every day, and I couldn't even do that These days Sunny is less lonely She's a new partner who has opened up her life, and through that relationship, she's made real friends, not just internet friends. The internet and her time as a cam girl remained core to who Sonny is In fact, a lot of her energy is now spent maintaining what she calls her camgirl museum It's an online repository of screenshots, photos, blog posts, and other ephemera that might otherwise have been lost to history Sonny was archiving this stuff in real time, like literally printing it out off of her computer. Because she could tell even then that it would one day serve as a valuable record of the early internet I was just grabbing at straws. I was just grabbing things randomly, like as if the building was on fire And so you were like an internet pioneer but you were still kind of like, committed to the tactile world I just think that things have to exist in the world for them to be legitimate or legitimized, I guess, is more to the point because if If they only exist online, they can be deleted, they can be lost. I've lost so much stuff over the years, like nothing digital is permanent So I started printing things out You you feel like that's true about relationships too they have to be in the real world to be legitimate or legitimized I didn't used to think that, but now I do. Back in Burbank, I asked Rachel Steele if she had ever brought any of her online relationships into the real world I did make, I would say, a handful of friends through being in this business U They're all overseas. One is in Croatia, one is there's two in Scotland and one in England and one in Italy Um, Did you feel like you got to really know anyone Um, well, I did get to know someone because he's my partner to this day When Rachel met her current partner, she'd been on her own for about seven years after her husband, Mike passed away She was living in Maine and liked to interact with her fans on a messaging app called Kick, that's KIK There was one day when she'd put out a mass message to her contacts on there, and was going through all the individual replies, looking at the little profile pictures that appeared next to each one. I scrolled and scrolled and I saw his picture. And then I clicked on it because I was like, wow, he's like something about him just made me stop scrolling So I clicked on it And I looked at his picture and enlarged it. and I was like, yeah, he's really cute. I'll say hi He was from Istanbul but lived in New York City, and he had been a fan of Rachel's for a long time He couldn't believe that his favorite porn star was actually talking to him And then they kept talking. I liked him because he wasn't like T fanboy ish you know, um and we ended up meeeting, I told him to come to Maine. It's where I was living at the time. He said, I'm in New York. You can come to mine. And I was like, no, I'm not going to New York City to a stranger's house. comeome on you know And he's like, oh, okay, And I'm like, you can come to Maine, you can come to my turf I know, you know, everyone in this neighborhood knows me, so don't even think You can try anything funny So he came and we spent the weekend together and Then we just kept chatting, chatting, chatting and then started seeing each other, decided we wanted to be exclusive Um and then COVID hit We moved in together Do you have actual children I do. Okay sons or daughters. a boy and a girl and they are grown up and gone